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I'm also seeing a lot of people (especially tanks) in Dungeons drop out when their loot doesn't drop, or if their loot drops. They'll just drop leaving the group stranded.
I decided to play a non-meta build on an unpopular class, and found that my chance of getting loot has increased, I also decided to not follow some BiS spreadsheets by the letter, because min maxing is not what I play for. The Vanilla game is easy and anyone can clear a dungeon or a raid with any sort of build. I am against insulting or labelling people, but I genuinely can't understand the rush mentality, then again, this server has a shorter lasting roadmap, so I am also a bit fearful if I will be able to collect everything I care about before it becomes dead content. But at the end of the day, TBC will release, or a new Classic Season+ or whatever, and all this shiny gear will be replaced, this thought gives me some comfort.
@@Cvez7 Hybrid between Balance and Restoration Druid, no Moonkin form. My items focus on Nature Damage, to boost Insect Swarm and Wrath. I find Wrath very underappreciated with how fast you can cast it. It can Heal perfectly fine, while also providing some damage and utility support. There is 0 competition for Nature Damage gear and it tends to be cheap on the AH too while leveling. Also from a "Class Fantasy" standpoint I find it fun, being a nature/green Druid.
I love playing non meta and just selecting the talents that are interesting and useful to me. Meta builds give me no sense of freedom on how to shape my character. I am with you on a slower pace. The game doesn't feel relaxing to me if I'm trying to speed through stuff at the speed of light.
It's the opposite, champ. The "elitists" have a guild and group of friends to play with, while you don't and are joining their party... You're the anti-social person in this example, many of you outright refuse to play with these people unless you are the one who gets the items. You could negotiate with them, try multiple runs, make your own group, join a guuld that sees your value and chooses you for the reservations, etc. You're the anti-social, greedy, elitist. "Play my way or you're ruining the game"
@ Having friends is clearly elitist, and anti-social. If four friends reserve an item for themselves while pugging a fifth member, then it is elitist. Bringing a random person on the same terms is not.
I think the problem is pretty simple: there need to be more people willing to organize groups. This culture developed as the result of there being too few people willing to organize or to tank. Especially if the person hard reserving is just a DPS and not the tank, why join their group? Just start your own. Tanks have leverage to hard reserve items because they are filling a role that is in demand and no one wants to fill.
Yes.... this is what i did back during original wow times lol, I played a warrior and tanked and just made my own groups if I couldn't find one. You had to know the basic of the dungeons, but thats about it. Unfortunetly in classic only warriors are considered good tanks for raids, but feral or pally can do lower lvl dungeons and stuff so that kinda works. But yea, easiest way to get a group goin is to start it urself and find the people, u don't even need to be the tank if u got a tank friend or can find another tank to do it.
@MrLemmiwinks91dude probably rolled a war but refuses to tank so he can’t get into any groups 😂 I just got my sgc today bc I made my own group and only invited casters .
I am an expert raid priest and i returned to Anniversary wow for a return to vanilla with a continuation to the BC for long term play. After a week and a half I just cancelled by subscription and here is why. I expected a return to vanilla as it was then a natural progression to the BC as it was. Instead, here is what I have experienced. It is common knowledge that certain layers were being used to massively boost certain players against tos. I was level 58 today when I unsubbed and I did it the old fashioned way solo grouping and helping others all the way. LFG which was NOT a part of original vanilla has been used as a platform for advertising mage boosting parties for gold. Tanks have used LFG to sit out and not play and rather advertise their tanking services for gold only leaving us all sitting on our butts with no tanks. At level 58 things did not get better they got worse. Mages that took gold for mass boosting are now mass farming the mobs actually needed for questing for marketable mats. This shit is going on everywhere. The total destruction of the economy is already occurring. Layers are being used to mass farm other high gold items such as arcane crystals. The addition of dual spec to the vanilla content has only encouraged the destruction of groups for dungeons because folks running want all items for their specs...for example warriors who demand to tank in fury are rolling on tanking items and dps gear as well against all melee group members. Its just ridiculous. This is not how vanilla was at all. LFG is being used as a platform for the most childish and immature......which sadly appears to be a large swath of people to post their loot demands in LFG. They want their items reserved or they will not run. Of course they want the best items in the dungeon destroying any possibility of others being interested in the run. LFG is being used to group for farming only certain dungeon bosses and not running the entire thing. If you are there for quest completion ...it's not going to happen. They want to farm the first three bosses in LBRS and have zero interest in completing the dungeon for the questors because they are not there for you or to play with you.... You are there for them to get what they want and they are not going a step further because they don't need to complete quests. This results in folks just totally skipping most of the content of vanilla which is what the expansion was all about and instead focusing on farming only bosses with bis loot so that they can get into Molten Core and down Rag first...or second....or third... It's just so ridiculous. NONE of this was what original vanilla was about ...absolutely none of it. We played all the content in all of the dungeons, we had large social nets for questing and running dungeons which in turn gave us long term lasting friendships. That is all gone now and I do not see it returning. The magic of the original game that only some of us were allowed to experience with all the amazing content and social interaction has been replaced with cheating, toxicity, racing to be first, destruction of the economy in the first 4 weeks. The magic is gone and it has been for a long time. I am sad for all the cheaters who never knew what it was like to play that game that we played and loved. Instead, they only know all of this. The reason that Blizzard cannot get a viable base to return and play is because they have absolutely no interest in banning all of the people who are using Blitz and other violations of terms of service which destroy the economy and the server. All I see is mages mass boosting and mass farming mats for AH control, people sitting on their asses because no one will run in LFG agreeing to loot reservation or tank extortion...you pay or no tank. This is not the game that we played many years ago. I do not need to wait around for the micro transactions or gdkp's. To all of the cheaters...enjoy outcheating each other as usual. To Blizzard...until you actually have active GMs again mass perma banning the mass cheaters nothing can ever change. The cheaters control your game and you subscriptions via their reimagined cheating mechanisms. I'm going back to privates or real life I wont accept adults acting like children with mass cheating and expect that we will line up to play. The only resolution that I can see for this problem is to go back to having active GMs ...literally everywhere and on the spot permaban all the boosters and boostees. All the mages mass farming mobs to control the AH mats, remove Master looter and make rare and epic loot bind on pick up and untradeable. There is no other way to stop this.
Botting is against TOS.. paying someone in game currency to run you through dungeons is not against TOS. I have pictures of a live agent telling me this directly, as I was banned for joining a stockade group that had a 60 mage running everyone. Reason was "cheating/hacking". I got lucky and talked to a live agent who explained to me that no, it is NOT against TOS and is not a bannable offense. I then was unbanned within a few hours of speaking to said agent. Everything else outside of that in your comment I do agree with.
There are always more hard reserves at the beginning of fresh because guilds are running things, if you are a solo player, you must avoid those groups or you will be behind forever
God I wish I could've convinced my few friends to play ascension. Loved it! I am also just leveling /waiting for TBC. In the meantime I'll play sod (I still enjoy it heavily).
Ran RFK once on my warrior, Corpsemaker dropped, the enhance shaman won the roll. I was sad but I didn't try to pull any reservation shenanigans its so stupid.
Don't join groups with reserve if you need the gear or don't like the play style. And you should always try and make a mixed group so there is less overlap for need rolls on gear. That's a win for everyone in the group.
Yesterday I tried to get into a deadmines run for like 45 min while I was on my 21 mage. I never even got a response from anyone when they were advertising and id whipser them. Since it was mostly mages that were LFM I think they just didnt want to roll against another mage. Annoyed I swapped to my 23 warrior and signed up for tank, instantly all those mages started whispering me but I ignored them and made my own group. That run ended up having basically every caster item drop and it was a great time.
I learned if you try to hr loot people will put you on ignore and report you ( which reduced the amount of ppl to communicate and play with needlessly) so the way to do it is make your own group and invite people who won't roll on your gear, also never bring a hunter they roll on everything.
As I remember it 20 years ago HR people typically started dramas in both groups and guilds. People were often enough standardized toxic and greedy back then as well. Nothing has changed for the better in that regard. But also friendly decent people of which friendships outlasted the vanilla and TBC game itself.
It's because these items are both rare and powerful. If you run 50 UBRS for Felstriker you don't want to run 50 more if it finally drops and you have to run it again. I think the way they could fix it is by adding a currency kinda like the Reals so you're guaranteed a drop after a certain amount of runs. Wouldn't eliminate it but also wouldn't make it feel almost necessary for some people.
Well so people want the vanilla feeling but they dont want rng to decide their loot! Thats pure bs! If they dont want to get loot the way its supposed to be then they shouldent whine about changes to classic!
i tried to join rfk runs on my shaman, and got kicked 5 times because i said i wanted the corpsemaker on my shaman, as it was a massive upgrade, and then i tried to join armory run later on, and never got in a proper group because i wanted those items aswell, people are so entitled its crazy
@ i would never hard res an item, nor make a group specific for me to Get an item, vanilla doesn’t matter that much to be, just made me quit instead :)
@@stianbotten836 I can see how that is annoying but the route to take to achieve that item was obvious and you did everything in your power to avoid doing it... That's not others being unfair, that's you being lazy and dramatic. HRing loot for yourself is completely fair, if you're worried about that you can just stick around to help them get the next in another run, or schedule another time to try again later. Everyone else has to do these things but somehow you've convinced yourself that you shouldnt have to. Genuinely insane.
Idk why this is suddenly an issue. Even back in the day I'd do like deadmines and someone reserved staff or cruel barb. Cause they want the item and not spend 10 runs and losing multiple rolls. It actually makes sense to make your own group for wht you want
Little strange to HR stuff in low level dungeons. But it definitely makes sense in a high level dungeon for pre-bis. If something is a 5% drop or whatever it is, you don't want to make it 5% divided by 2, 3 or 4 exponentially scaling the number of runs you'll need. If someone else is going through the trouble of creating and organizing a group, they can make any looting rule they want. Don't join a group where an item you want is HR. The same is true for you, if you go through the trouble of creating your own group, you can set up any rule you wish. Creating a group and running a dungeon takes effort and time. No one is entitled to your group/effort/time, nor are you to anyone else's.
What for join the grp if you dont get item that you want? Dont you think its kinda stupid ? ;) HR = basically official ninja loot, dont see reason to join such bullshit and yea its an effort to organize group but dude, its just a game its not your job :)
I mean, I understand why people hard reserve items, but when you have so many people playing the same few classes (due to how classic works) I would much rather be able to run the dungeon and play the game even if I am not guaranteed the loot.. Especially since gearing up is part of the fun. There's no reason to race to the end. I am against the HR culture, and will avoid those groups when possible. If I can't, I'll make my own dungeon group.
@@JonasMondrupmy man were two weeks in, join a super sweaty guild and do guild runs for bis runs, not hard. Complaining about people being under geared and not efficient less than a month in is a you problem.
@@kennethfels7022 I don't play the game any more I have invested too much sweat into classic 2019, rank 13, 2x bis geared hunter with slave maker and a t3 mage, top 10 parses on firemaw/gehannes. I am done with the game, but I always hated the HR/GBID meta, I always geared without those privileges, and people who gear with those privileges honestly mostly suck at the game pressing spells and makes me cringe.
@@bigpoints101 Cause the game is more fun when there is chance. You must be a HR abuser to not see the issue with everything being HR'd. I'd rather the LFG tool be introduced than see all the HR shit. "OH carry me, I deserve the loot more than everyone" mentality
@@paulb_614 99.9% of my gaming is solo, and when i group, its on free roll. i just don't see the mentality of removing masterloot from the game because you don't like it. like you deserve to have the game changed so everyone has to play like you want it to be played.
This is the effect of *"Better Gear = Skills"* mentality. See the same in retail were gear is abundant. They are mostly the lowest DPS players. Gear drastically changes numbers which made people delusional.
I hear you on ALLL of this. And it's true, I'm on my 2nd alt for the HC 20th Server. I've never seen this much HR-items in pre-60 content that I've seen in 20 years of gaming. But as far as your second point, about the 'reserving without reserving', that's as classic as WoW has always been! If I want Smite's Hammer, I'm inviting only 1h classes, or casters. It's how 90% of people do it when they make their own groups. -I think its more likely the case that people do it for their own groups they're making, but it seems more because more people are making groups given its higher populations than first launch.
@@Ithvin How does a guy who looked on LFG a group almost formed and joined a group with 4 other people by just wispering to him spent the same amount of time as the dude who is looking for other 4 people ? If you dont like HR /want to deserve equal loot just make your own group with the same people who thinks that way and problem solved who are you/me to decide the way people play the game ?
@@GreenwoodTony7with guildies that makes a lot of sense. If the tank is strong the dungeons will be cleared safely and without problems. With randoms yeah nah dude I need my stuff
Ninjalooting is literal theft. HR is something you are literally laying out in front of everyone in full honesty as a person who wants to play the game a certain way and get gear. Is HR kinda scummy? Yes. Is it even remotely close to ninjalooting? No.
Ive done this pseudo "HR" by applying for groups that dont have hunters. As someone who isnt creating the group I dont feel like it really effects anything. Although other classes can use bows/crossbows/guns but I think its less common that someone will need on them with hunter in group.
I saw it happening constantly with the 2019. It's ok if people do it. But it's crazy how 90% of runs seems to have some kind of hard reserve, then they complain that they can't fill the group. 🤷♂️
Glad i rerolled from rogue at lvl26 to warrior currently lvl44, main reason was how annoying it was to find warrs willing to tank dungs. Easiest way to fix the HR thing during prebis grind is by inviting classes that dont need ur gear very simple.
The people complaining about HRs in raids or dungeons are ALWAYs the people that want to do the least amount of work and play dps so they can watch six streams on their other screens whilst playing.
60 Holy Priest on the PvP EU server here, and I completely agree. The thing that really annoys me is that there is a massive shortage of tanks in certain dungeons because they refuse to join a group with other warriors/rogues, which are by far the most popular melee DPS classes. If I'm running a dungeon with a guild member on one of those classes, it takes ages for us to find a tank, because none of the warriors want to roll with competition for their off-spec DPS gear. I often have to wait 30+ minutes, or sometimes I will get lucky with a feral druid, but that is very rare.
Yep, I completely agree and I’ll never understand people that will dodge groups like this instead of just doing the dungeon five or six times. By the time, they finally find a group with no warrior or rogues they may have waited a whole hour. I would rather roll against people and play the game then just sit somewhere spamming looking for a group or looking for members for one hour .
Think about it this way, if you HR an item , for example HoJ, when it drops, you’re gonna pay each of your group members 200g in return, see how many people gonna have problem with you HRing the item? 💀 People just hate they are putting their time into something that doesn’t guarantee anything in return
This is exactly why I'm so excited for the private server Epoch WoW, since its all custom content it'll be like a whole new experience where no one knows what drops from what. Classic now is ran purely as a meta game.. I've had my fun in it, but I can't go back to pure classic again.. I need something extra and fresh.
Well I see your point, the fix is quite easy especially on PvE. Ignore everything and everybody who hardreserves shit. I don't join groups who do it and when people confront me about it they land on my ignore list. This might not be the most social approach, but what they are doing is the antisocial thing so .... them. Also regarding the lategame dungeons, There are still very few casuals 60. To have leveled to lvl 60 is still quite the ordeal and is taking people who arent putting in crazy amounts of time a while. These people will also be more relaxed concerning loot. Don't engage with the tryhard Maincharacters and do your thing. I know it's frustrating but these people aren't worth your while. FInd a guild you enjoy playing with or recruit some friends and play with them. There will be more relaxed groups. And if it's hard to find a raid or dungeongroup put one together yourself. There are plenty of people tired of this bs.
I think HR loot makes sense within a Guild i.e. if the special shield drops, our Raid Tank gets it first. This serves a greater purpose and the person missing out on the loot kind of still benefits from it. Outside of pre-discussed Guild runs, it's a pretty degenerate practice...
This is an issue as old as time (or 2004) theres always been HR groups. Committed guilds who have been there running that instance for weeks dont want some rando coming in and taking potentially the 1 item they have been after, or one that would significantly benefit the raid such as gressil from naxx. Guild comes first. Dont like it, make or join a guild. Youre their guest in raids
At this point, personal loot is starting to sounds good ! if this HR/Reserve continues into TBC.. server will be dead for anyone not doing content with a guild.
Hey there. Currently (Dec 15th) what is your opinion of a decent price for small flame sacs? There are a few for 25 s on the NA PVE server. I haven't been following the prices on them though
Its so stupid. Im most of the time building, guiding and tanking groups. Its simple... setup the group with classes and rolls that do not overlapping loot. My benefit for investing the time and energy is, the assurance I would not pickup loot competition for a specific item I really want. Everyone wins.
I'm sure a part of the problem is that the avg age of the gamers in fresh is 30+ and they don't want to sit and waste time farming something for absolutely no reason when the % chance is already like winning the lottery. At least they secure it it, IF it drops
I learned what reserve was in wrath classic and ya I don’t like it I just want to see my item drop and roll for it reserved just made running take longer and complicated runs
So I've read through the arguments in your replies to other comments and I'm just wondering, Why do you reserve your gold guide to only people who pay? The answer is probably because you put the work and effort into making it. The people reserving gear are the one putting the effort into making the groups so people can run them. They want the same thing you do in the end and that's progress.
@@absolutfreak5012 The amount of effort is irrelevant its the fact that he has to put in more effort to make the group rather than someone just joining the group. Effort put out no matter how small is still effort put forth to something they want.
@@absolutfreak5012 That's an extreme over simplification. Settings up and leading a raid is way more complex than typing that one message. It can often take longer than expected to form, and could even take an hour in some cases of spamming adverts. Then you have to find out if they are actually geared and not some guy who just hit 60, has greens with stats they don't use, but demands he gets some loot. Then you still have to go throw the monotony of holding their hands through each and every encounter. Constantly reminding them of simple things like, hey go loot the core hound so our skinner can skin it. Every single time. Finally make it to the boss and check if people actually know the mechanics, nope theres always one aswell as others too scared to say they dont, so you gotta run down the whole encounter. What are the mechanics, how to do them, when to do what. Etc. We all know majority of players complaining about this fit one if not all of these problems. Shows up unprepared, doesnt have what they need or know what to do, has to be reminded of the most simple things and walked through each boss fight, causes wipes but still wants his BiS items over another who came prepared, knew what to do and performed well. Kick rocks.
Seriously! I don't believe I could be as helpless as these people make it out to be even if I tried. I'm pretty introverted and shy, play every server and seasonal mode by myself but just by existing in the game world and interacting with people I build bonds with strangers. Even unknowingly. Sometimes I will log in and instantly get messaged like hey you want to come do this, from some dude I partied with one time 20 levels ago... If you're genuine, good and helpful you build an impression on people. These are all the "me! me! me!" mfers who last only a couple weeks in every new wow game mode.
I think asking certain classes not to roll on an item when it's substantially better for another is fine in some cases (3 agi, 12 int ring, asking the rogue not to roll against the mage for example) and I think 1 or 2 items like the class quest or legendary items is fine, but anything more is cringe
The only way to combat this effectively is to introduce personal loot like retail has. But then it wouldn't be "vanilla" anymore and people wouldn't play it. Reserving pre-bis items has been the case at every instance of vanilla. I usually make my own groups or ask guildies to help me farm. That has worked fine for me and i play rogue.
As much as it annoys me looking for a group and all of the groups are run by rogues like me or hard reserving items I need, I still have to completely disagree. I just start my own group and with the amount of players looking for groups they fill up rather quickly. Time is valuable to people especially those of us that only have a few hours a day to play during the week. Why would I spend 2 hours on a dungeon I have to roll against 3 people when the item only has a 12% drop chance to begin with? I notice lot of these groups are friends or guildies that are basically carrying the group with the healer and or tank and some of them are just there to help each other out. But they need another 1-2 players to join so they pug a couple. Same with MC groups that are full of 20-30 guildies that have items and materials HR. If you don't want to be a part of that then simply don't join. I don't really see any issue here other then you are either too lazy to start your own group or find a guild that can avoid these issues. You making the claim that this is a "problem that needs to be solved" is the same mentality that led to what is retail wow today. Making things easier for solo players. Classic wow is supposed to be you socializing making groups and joining guilds and having friends to be able to get the gear you want, you don't just get to /roll for that legendary Sulfuras, you need friends to make it happen.
Thats what I was thinking as well. Why not make your own group and invite like-minded people? You're not entitled to the time/effort of someone else going through the trouble of getting a group together, and neither are they to yours IMO
When people "reserve" it's ingame reservation? If not, just roll. I'm a beginner in WoW (started for the first time 10 days ago on fresh classic) Went in a group for DM, the tank said after the start of the dungeon that whatever item was reserved, i just said "no, you didn't mentionned that before we start, if i need, i'll roll need" ( i roll need if i need, or i pass if i don't, i don't steal all loot ). He insulted me but continued XD It's a game, it's prob based, it's part of the game to roll and hope XD
Yeah, don't think it's a nothing burger. I don't like the reserve thingy either. Sometimes people ask, if I need this or that and I'll pass if I don't need the thing they want, but honestly just play the game and let people roll on what they need.
Advertising HR in a LFM message should be banned as GDKPs were. I am aware that in dungeons they could still just invite certain classes to get the loot but, overall, it would still be worth it and that is all that Blizzard can do about it anyway. It is a player behaviour problem like many others in classic.
@MrLemmiwinks91 I understand your take, and I do agree that people rolling for gear that doesn’t fit their class or spec is completely asinine. I was in a UBRS the other day and a Mage rolled on the Melee ring from the last boss (I am melee) because he said it had more stamina than his.. That’s complete bullshit and I put in a ticket, but of course nothing will happen to him. I do agree that most people can and should just make their own groups if they don’t like the hard reserve culture , but at the same time I also agree that personally I think hard reserve should be banned like GDKP. It destroys replayability and just deters a lot of people from running content. The whole point after all is to play the game for most people, not just get one item so they can raid log faster . I understand everyone has different takes and not everyone has as much time as other people. This is just how I see it. Edit: I do understand and respect that making/forming/ runnung a raid in classic is much more difficult than a dungeon. I don’t necessarily think hard reserve should be banned from raids, but I do think it should be banned from dungeons. Now as that goes in my experience the raid leader is not always the person running the raid so it’s very nuanced situation.
2 things 1) HR culture is for sure out of control, but considering the loot scarcity it's understandable. 2) folks selectively joining groups where there is no loot competing (effectively reserving in a roundabout way) is honestly fine, your group your choice who to invite. At the end of the day, the problem here isn't the playerbase but the scarcity of the loot. Try to farm HOJ in a 4 melee group, see how fun that is.
Hoj farm as 4 melee is fine exactly how I did it in 2019 problem is finding the healer... We got 3/4 within first few days playing a few hours then got our last one for the tank just before our first raid... Problem is community that single player game in a multiplayer world... Back in 2004 you would basically be added to many ppls ignore list for being a ninja or a selfish prick.. Now it's almost praised that you ninja bis items
@@bushido-z-8400 If you can form a farm group that are willing to stick around until you get the desired loot for all 5 that's fine. That's great, no that's the ideal scenario. But the problem starts when a person gets their desired loot and dips and that's usually how it goes.
@@bushido-z-8400 I dunno if I agree that that’s the point of the game. The game gives you freedom; and one of these freedoms is being a selfish asshole about loot.
@@SirePuns yeah the game allows it now because the playerbase allow it the game was created when Internet was new and being selfish wasn't built into the games design.. This is why blizzard have toiled back n forth in retail with loot distribution for years because there is no perfect solution for a selfish prick. If you look at new game design like final fantasy they are trying everything in their power to produce positive player engagement.
The issue is blizzards lack of transparency on the question of whether or not we will be able to clone our characters to classic era at the end, if we don't want to go to garbage TBC
This is the reason I quit shazzrah server in 2019.. A guy who thought he was the main character of the server called rhythmicbob who would hard res 2 or 3 items per raid and would have a 1 item lock per raid that he could basically pick 1 item per raid to take for him and his friends regardless of the item.. He was a warrior and saw him mid raid pick his locked item as neltharion tear after it dropped for his buddies didn't matter that the item had 7 Sr on it... When I kicked up a fuss everyone in raid who wasn't his buddies acted like this was completely normal like they were blessed to be in such a smooth run. Ppl need to stop pretending they are the main character of the run and raids are fking easy so if you are wiping it's probably because half the raid is afk
Maybe this is a hot take but I don’t think HR is a big problem… TBH I think the main issue is players who never want to start their own groups. If your LFG and all you see is “HR this, HR that” the solution is super simple… Start your own group man.
Lol they all screeched for aGDKP ban now they’re still crying about the server economy . On era I could gdkp for gold even on fresh 60s in zg, on fresh I’ve already bought gold idgaf I’m a warrior and I want to parse, if anything I believe the gdkp ban has caused more people like me to buy gold bc we can’t gdkp a few hours a week for gold and don’t want to farm for 10 hours a day . .
No one gets in trouble for doing this kind of thing. Becomes more and more normalized. And I'm sure there's a group of people adding to it. Not surprised.
I ran scholomance for the agi 1h axes 38 times to get one in original classic launch 4 or so years ago. The second one dropped 3 runs later and was taken by a warrior. The next didnt drop til run 51. You can cry me a damn river about HRs. Some people dont have time to play all day every day. Kids, wives, work..etc.
Bring LFG from retail into classic and don't allow the change of loot rules. This can eliminate HRs. If you don't like LFG, I do not care, don't use it and stick to your elite groups/guilds. It's really that simple. I'm in a great guild but not everyone is as fortunate, and not everyone has the time and just like to play casually. A lot of us are grown, working parents, now. It's like casual play just isn't allowed anymore.
The reserving situation now? I've been talking about this since before Classic. I didn't really play nost because it was so damn laggy, but on Elysium - like vanilla - reserving gear was not a thing. Then Light's hope rolled around, and you'd actually see people try to reserve gear in chat. Not often, and they'd be mocked and laughed at, but they tried. Occasionally. Come Northdale, it didn't even warrant a reaction, and by the time Classic rolled around it was downright normal. You're absolutely right everything just gets faggier the more time goes on, but this is not a new phenomenon. I wonder where it came from, though.
People have been using master looter since the moment it existed, champ. What are you talking about? &Using private servers like Elysium as examples is genuinely laughable. You're telling me people don't HR loot on private servers with a HUGE population count of 56 people? I wouldn't have guessed! Even it's historical data is hilarious to use as a arguement. Using a server with a maximum count of less than 6,000 that didnt enjoy it enough to stick around to a population of millions. There's clearly an alterior reason why it wasn't being used commonly in a *drastically smaller community* What an absolutely loony lapse of logic.
That's why personal loot is so great. But until we don't have it, everybody can do HR as they want. If you don't like it, don't join and play a class/role which is in high demand so you can form your own group and find other players quickly. But I have to laugh about groups looking for a tank and HoJ is HR. "Good luck finding one buddy"
Wt are we talking here? you dont want grp to hs or always invite you ? this is just basic stuff of wow hs or a group with different class to not fight loot
Only way to fix this would be to make significant changes to loot system in classic wow by adding a bad luck protection in the form of a currency or something. No one wants to run a Dungeon 50 times for an item see it drop and then lose it to some random person. My rule of thumb is I will usually run an instance 5-10 times with open roll and then if the piece I want doesn't drop or I keep losing the rolls I switch to HR.
Everyone should have a blacklist addon or "I remember you addon" and write down those HR guys and not play with them ever again in coming weeks and months. That's the way problems used to be solved.
Blame Blizzard for the accelerated timeline while not changing anything to account for it. Common sense things would have been done if this team had a clue. 1) IF you want to do an accelerated timeline (bad idea to begin with) you have to give more loot or give similar guaranteed loot you can progress towards. Otherwise you have people who are loot starved going into content which will make them more toxic. 2) IF you want to have anything close to balanced population on Classic PVP you need the pvp trinket in at release or else alliance is pointless. It should have had the pvp ranking system up to rank 3 on launch. Orc stun resist needs to get the Turtle WoW treatment as well because no one wants to play Paladins for a good reason. 3) I would honestly just buff paladins as well (prob less than turtle did though). Why? Because I hate alliance, want to play Horde and never can anymore because everyone rolls horde. Anyone claiming shamans would need a buff is flat out insane. I would main a ele/resto dual spec for raiding all day everyday over every class and spec in WoW. Faceroll better than rank 14 gear, guaranteed raid spot, best group pvp class in the game. With the broken orc racial they are the best class/spec in the game. Kill the orc racial so I can play tauren and outskill people non passively. I'm fine with that. 4) Balance druids? Sure buff their mana, IDC. Feral? Rogue is there. Be honest and admit you play druid cus you failed at rogue. Honesty is good. Feral allows you to beat most rogues who were as bad as you and mages you might struggle with especially if you don't play imp sprint daggers and play that clown hemo spec. Feral hybrid specs is already fine in pvp, you have dual spec and feral is great in TBC. You get a free raid spot, limited loot competition and a solid pvp class. Don't like it, don't play it.
It is one of the reasons why I don't play the game anymore, It's either rank quickly to get good gear from PVP or just be super involved in a good guild that runs 5 man's and get prebis together. Playing solo is horrible!
I work 60 hours a week, it took me 18 Angerforge kills as a Duo rogue to get my HoJ and that was lucky, i dont blame people AT ALL for HRing items if they make it clear BERORE the run. If i tried to farm that shit legit, were talking about over 10 hours of PURE Anger/arena/Golem runs assuming that i was going to be the only one rolling. Realisticly were talking about over a week of trying for this with the minimal amount of playtime i get during the week, which is considered alot to normal none wow degens lol
General problem w wow retail is the more fun but it lack root elements from vanilla Currently what's breaking wow Add-ons Flying Smaller game How to fix ; reputation overhaul ; new world map ' the world is big yet so small World pvp outside of forced events is a must. That is the vanilla elements retail is lacking as a start
I don’t think HR is that big of deal if it’s one or two items , the drop rates for some items are so low, you can’t blame people , the game needs a way to resolve this , think about the heart break of people running something 20 times and lose it on the 21sr to a random . I don’t do HR runs , but I’ve joined them , and I can understand. They can and should find and in game way to fix this , such as the first need roll is guaranteed, and or multiple needs duplicate class items . I love classic , but some of the item farming especially at low levels is a little crazy , you can out level an item drop way before you get the drop
I noticed this also on dreamscythe to the point where it was so disgusting I just stopped playing. This classic launch felt so bad compared to 2019. I play shaman heals and people literally just treat me like shit. Dps rolling need on +healing gear should not be allowed. The amount of times this happened to me is actually sad. Also the HR situation is so bad. I like to think those people never get their groups going cause I see it posted so often. If you are afraid to lose a roll on blue prebis raid loot, you are a sad individual that probably has 0 friends.
the overall roll stuff is shit. Just hardcode need/greed for everything, with the class limits, so mages wouldn't be able to roll for the barb physically, and "need" for the resources is open only if you maxed the relevant profession.
I loved to play wow classic back in 2019 and i played it a lot. While raiding i was a minmaxer and liked it a lot. In Wow fresh classic people are playing like the sweatist sweaty bois. Zero fun, zero social interaction, everyone is going for minmax in the fastest time possible and now they are standing with their perfect preraid bis gear afk in sw or if The gold prices are already exploding and most of the people running around with their epic mounts. Asking for help to kill an lvl 40 elite took me days until someone was so kind to help me. Ninjalooting in the scarlet monestary are also a normal thing and people don't complaining about it, except me What a garbage experience - lvl 42 warrior with 50g and no mount I am going to deeinstall this game soon
Hr is ruining pre bis expercience for luckers. The think is taht there are 500000 warriors and rogues and hunters and ferals needing the same items. And more than the 50% of the population are those classes becouse of the context. Parseing is mandatory to solo play, and ppl start to solo play more and more, in mmos mostly becouse of the time those players have versus the other firends times. If you are a nonparser have u have no consumibles becouse are expensive as hell, then u are not gonna get invited. If you are a class that is not op you are not invited. It is wwhat it is. And if you are a class that is op then you you have the same class as the 60% of th e server, or HR or you are not gonna get the geear to do early raids, if you dont do early raids you cant parse, if you cant parse you cant play. This is the pve cicle in every version of thiswow for solo playing. Just role healers and you wont get HR for any item with healing power in it
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I'm also seeing a lot of people (especially tanks) in Dungeons drop out when their loot doesn't drop, or if their loot drops. They'll just drop leaving the group stranded.
I decided to play a non-meta build on an unpopular class, and found that my chance of getting loot has increased, I also decided to not follow some BiS spreadsheets by the letter, because min maxing is not what I play for. The Vanilla game is easy and anyone can clear a dungeon or a raid with any sort of build. I am against insulting or labelling people, but I genuinely can't understand the rush mentality, then again, this server has a shorter lasting roadmap, so I am also a bit fearful if I will be able to collect everything I care about before it becomes dead content. But at the end of the day, TBC will release, or a new Classic Season+ or whatever, and all this shiny gear will be replaced, this thought gives me some comfort.
thats a good idea, whats ur non metal build?
@@Cvez7 Hybrid between Balance and Restoration Druid, no Moonkin form. My items focus on Nature Damage, to boost Insect Swarm and Wrath. I find Wrath very underappreciated with how fast you can cast it. It can Heal perfectly fine, while also providing some damage and utility support. There is 0 competition for Nature Damage gear and it tends to be cheap on the AH too while leveling. Also from a "Class Fantasy" standpoint I find it fun, being a nature/green Druid.
@@diannahimi7822 props to you! i think thats a really good way of playing the game :D
I love playing non meta and just selecting the talents that are interesting and useful to me. Meta builds give me no sense of freedom on how to shape my character. I am with you on a slower pace. The game doesn't feel relaxing to me if I'm trying to speed through stuff at the speed of light.
Completely agree.
Elitist, anti-social bullying those groups.
Make your own group
Why not just create your own group and invite everyone and have it free for all roll?
It's the opposite, champ.
The "elitists" have a guild and group of friends to play with, while you don't and are joining their party...
You're the anti-social person in this example, many of you outright refuse to play with these people unless you are the one who gets the items. You could negotiate with them, try multiple runs, make your own group, join a guuld that sees your value and chooses you for the reservations, etc.
You're the anti-social, greedy, elitist.
"Play my way or you're ruining the game"
@@A_Goat you must be funne at real life parties
@ Having friends is clearly elitist, and anti-social.
If four friends reserve an item for themselves while pugging a fifth member, then it is elitist. Bringing a random person on the same terms is not.
I think the problem is pretty simple: there need to be more people willing to organize groups. This culture developed as the result of there being too few people willing to organize or to tank. Especially if the person hard reserving is just a DPS and not the tank, why join their group? Just start your own. Tanks have leverage to hard reserve items because they are filling a role that is in demand and no one wants to fill.
Yes.... this is what i did back during original wow times lol, I played a warrior and tanked and just made my own groups if I couldn't find one. You had to know the basic of the dungeons, but thats about it. Unfortunetly in classic only warriors are considered good tanks for raids, but feral or pally can do lower lvl dungeons and stuff so that kinda works. But yea, easiest way to get a group goin is to start it urself and find the people, u don't even need to be the tank if u got a tank friend or can find another tank to do it.
@MrLemmiwinks91dude probably rolled a war but refuses to tank so he can’t get into any groups 😂 I just got my sgc today bc I made my own group and only invited casters .
Hey bro I’m a noob what do you mean by tanks have a leverage to hard reserve items ?
I am an expert raid priest and i returned to Anniversary wow for a return to vanilla with a continuation to the BC for long term play. After a week and a half I just cancelled by subscription and here is why.
I expected a return to vanilla as it was then a natural progression to the BC as it was. Instead, here is what I have experienced.
It is common knowledge that certain layers were being used to massively boost certain players against tos.
I was level 58 today when I unsubbed and I did it the old fashioned way solo grouping and helping others all the way.
LFG which was NOT a part of original vanilla has been used as a platform for advertising mage boosting parties for gold.
Tanks have used LFG to sit out and not play and rather advertise their tanking services for gold only leaving us all sitting on our butts with no tanks.
At level 58 things did not get better they got worse. Mages that took gold for mass boosting are now mass farming the mobs actually needed for questing for marketable mats.
This shit is going on everywhere. The total destruction of the economy is already occurring.
Layers are being used to mass farm other high gold items such as arcane crystals.
The addition of dual spec to the vanilla content has only encouraged the destruction of groups for dungeons because folks running want all items for their specs...for example warriors who demand to tank in fury are rolling on tanking items and dps gear as well against all melee group members. Its just ridiculous. This is not how vanilla was at all.
LFG is being used as a platform for the most childish and immature......which sadly appears to be a large swath of people to post their loot demands in LFG. They want their items reserved or they will not run. Of course they want the best items in the dungeon destroying any possibility of others being interested in the run.
LFG is being used to group for farming only certain dungeon bosses and not running the entire thing. If you are there for quest completion ...it's not going to happen. They want to farm the first three bosses in LBRS and have zero interest in completing the dungeon for the questors because they are not there for you or to play with you.... You are there for them to get what they want and they are not going a step further because they don't need to complete quests.
This results in folks just totally skipping most of the content of vanilla which is what the expansion was all about and instead focusing on farming only bosses with bis loot so that they can get into Molten Core and down Rag first...or second....or third... It's just so ridiculous. NONE of this was what original vanilla was about ...absolutely none of it.
We played all the content in all of the dungeons, we had large social nets for questing and running dungeons which in turn gave us long term lasting friendships. That is all gone now and I do not see it returning. The magic of the original game that only some of us were allowed to experience with all the amazing content and social interaction has been replaced with cheating, toxicity, racing to be first, destruction of the economy in the first 4 weeks. The magic is gone and it has been for a long time. I am sad for all the cheaters who never knew what it was like to play that game that we played and loved. Instead, they only know all of this.
The reason that Blizzard cannot get a viable base to return and play is because they have absolutely no interest in banning all of the people who are using Blitz and other violations of terms of service which destroy the economy and the server. All I see is mages mass boosting and mass farming mats for AH control, people sitting on their asses because no one will run in LFG agreeing to loot reservation or tank extortion...you pay or no tank.
This is not the game that we played many years ago. I do not need to wait around for the micro transactions or gdkp's. To all of the cheaters...enjoy outcheating each other as usual.
To Blizzard...until you actually have active GMs again mass perma banning the mass cheaters nothing can ever change. The cheaters control your game and you subscriptions via their reimagined cheating mechanisms. I'm going back to privates or real life I wont accept adults acting like children with mass cheating and expect that we will line up to play.
The only resolution that I can see for this problem is to go back to having active GMs ...literally everywhere and on the spot permaban all the boosters and boostees. All the mages mass farming mobs to control the AH mats, remove Master looter and make rare and epic loot bind on pick up and untradeable. There is no other way to stop this.
Great comment.
Botting is against TOS.. paying someone in game currency to run you through dungeons is not against TOS. I have pictures of a live agent telling me this directly, as I was banned for joining a stockade group that had a 60 mage running everyone. Reason was "cheating/hacking". I got lucky and talked to a live agent who explained to me that no, it is NOT against TOS and is not a bannable offense. I then was unbanned within a few hours of speaking to said agent.
Everything else outside of that in your comment I do agree with.
I completely agree hr culture sucks. I never join a hr group even if its not something i need.
Well no shit ya don’t say
There are always more hard reserves at the beginning of fresh because guilds are running things, if you are a solo player, you must avoid those groups or you will be behind forever
The biggest offenders of this are warriors.
Can we get TBC already?
TBC Hype, TBC Hype
I quit classic and went to Warmane TBC, I realized I didn't want to wait for TBC so I didn't.
@@EB-bl6cc Feel that! I went back to Ascension. Can't stand retail wow anymore.
God I wish I could've convinced my few friends to play ascension. Loved it! I am also just leveling /waiting for TBC. In the meantime I'll play sod (I still enjoy it heavily).
What
Will this solve nothing
Ran RFK once on my warrior, Corpsemaker dropped, the enhance shaman won the roll. I was sad but I didn't try to pull any reservation shenanigans its so stupid.
Don't join groups with reserve if you need the gear or don't like the play style. And you should always try and make a mixed group so there is less overlap for need rolls on gear. That's a win for everyone in the group.
Yesterday I tried to get into a deadmines run for like 45 min while I was on my 21 mage. I never even got a response from anyone when they were advertising and id whipser them. Since it was mostly mages that were LFM I think they just didnt want to roll against another mage. Annoyed I swapped to my 23 warrior and signed up for tank, instantly all those mages started whispering me but I ignored them and made my own group. That run ended up having basically every caster item drop and it was a great time.
I learned if you try to hr loot people will put you on ignore and report you ( which reduced the amount of ppl to communicate and play with needlessly) so the way to do it is make your own group and invite people who won't roll on your gear, also never bring a hunter they roll on everything.
😂😂
As I remember it 20 years ago HR people typically started dramas in both groups and guilds. People were often enough standardized toxic and greedy back then as well. Nothing has changed for the better in that regard. But also friendly decent people of which friendships outlasted the vanilla and TBC game itself.
It's because these items are both rare and powerful. If you run 50 UBRS for Felstriker you don't want to run 50 more if it finally drops and you have to run it again. I think the way they could fix it is by adding a currency kinda like the Reals so you're guaranteed a drop after a certain amount of runs. Wouldn't eliminate it but also wouldn't make it feel almost necessary for some people.
Or just play the game like it’s suppose too and roll for it like a man
you forgot unnecessary
Well so people want the vanilla feeling but they dont want rng to decide their loot!
Thats pure bs! If they dont want to get loot the way its supposed to be then they shouldent whine about changes to classic!
Neither does the person next to you. Be a man, and roll for it
@@DreuuRose Like its supposed to? I must have forgotten that part in the manual. lol
i tried to join rfk runs on my shaman, and got kicked 5 times because i said i wanted the corpsemaker on my shaman, as it was a massive upgrade, and then i tried to join armory run later on, and never got in a proper group because i wanted those items aswell, people are so entitled its crazy
You want every item and saying others are entitled lol
@ i would never hard res an item, nor make a group specific for me to Get an item, vanilla doesn’t matter that much to be, just made me quit instead :)
@@stianbotten836
I can see how that is annoying but the route to take to achieve that item was obvious and you did everything in your power to avoid doing it... That's not others being unfair, that's you being lazy and dramatic.
HRing loot for yourself is completely fair, if you're worried about that you can just stick around to help them get the next in another run, or schedule another time to try again later.
Everyone else has to do these things but somehow you've convinced yourself that you shouldnt have to.
Genuinely insane.
Yea I'm also kicking a shaman wanting a 2h dps axe 😂
Don't say you need something upfront, just roll need when it drops. Im doing this all the time. Not only warriors need the gear. Ench shammy
Idk why this is suddenly an issue. Even back in the day I'd do like deadmines and someone reserved staff or cruel barb. Cause they want the item and not spend 10 runs and losing multiple rolls. It actually makes sense to make your own group for wht you want
A lot of guilds have toxic social credit systems where you trade yourself for loot instead of gdkp now
Thumbnail: "It sucks"
Guy in the video: "I'm having a blast, i'm having a really good time"
Little strange to HR stuff in low level dungeons. But it definitely makes sense in a high level dungeon for pre-bis. If something is a 5% drop or whatever it is, you don't want to make it 5% divided by 2, 3 or 4 exponentially scaling the number of runs you'll need.
If someone else is going through the trouble of creating and organizing a group, they can make any looting rule they want. Don't join a group where an item you want is HR. The same is true for you, if you go through the trouble of creating your own group, you can set up any rule you wish. Creating a group and running a dungeon takes effort and time. No one is entitled to your group/effort/time, nor are you to anyone else's.
What for join the grp if you dont get item that you want? Dont you think its kinda stupid ? ;) HR = basically official ninja loot, dont see reason to join such bullshit and yea its an effort to organize group but dude, its just a game its not your job :)
Those groups tend to take hours to fill, and are always filled with undergeared noobs trying to get the quests done... Its never efficient as a whole
I mean, I understand why people hard reserve items, but when you have so many people playing the same few classes (due to how classic works) I would much rather be able to run the dungeon and play the game even if I am not guaranteed the loot..
Especially since gearing up is part of the fun. There's no reason to race to the end.
I am against the HR culture, and will avoid those groups when possible. If I can't, I'll make my own dungeon group.
@@JonasMondrupmy man were two weeks in, join a super sweaty guild and do guild runs for bis runs, not hard. Complaining about people being under geared and not efficient less than a month in is a you problem.
@@kennethfels7022 I don't play the game any more I have invested too much sweat into classic 2019, rank 13, 2x bis geared hunter with slave maker and a t3 mage, top 10 parses on firemaw/gehannes. I am done with the game, but I always hated the HR/GBID meta, I always geared without those privileges, and people who gear with those privileges honestly mostly suck at the game pressing spells and makes me cringe.
They should just make Dungeons roll only. No master looter bs
Why should they remove a feature of the game? If you don't like it, then don't use it.
@@bigpoints101 Cause the game is more fun when there is chance. You must be a HR abuser to not see the issue with everything being HR'd.
I'd rather the LFG tool be introduced than see all the HR shit. "OH carry me, I deserve the loot more than everyone" mentality
@@paulb_614 99.9% of my gaming is solo, and when i group, its on free roll. i just don't see the mentality of removing masterloot from the game because you don't like it. like you deserve to have the game changed so everyone has to play like you want it to be played.
This is the effect of *"Better Gear = Skills"* mentality.
See the same in retail were gear is abundant. They are mostly the lowest DPS players.
Gear drastically changes numbers which made people delusional.
I hear you on ALLL of this. And it's true, I'm on my 2nd alt for the HC 20th Server. I've never seen this much HR-items in pre-60 content that I've seen in 20 years of gaming.
But as far as your second point, about the 'reserving without reserving', that's as classic as WoW has always been! If I want Smite's Hammer, I'm inviting only 1h classes, or casters. It's how 90% of people do it when they make their own groups.
-I think its more likely the case that people do it for their own groups they're making, but it seems more because more people are making groups given its higher populations than first launch.
as a tank i cant sit back and gear 3 hunters in mail and then move on to the next dungeon undergeared. Not on HC
Make friends, form a guild, gear each other. Everyone has devoted the same time to the dungeon and deserve equal loot.
@@Ithvin and when you have lvl 20 gear at 45 and die tanking you will have wasted all that time.
Who ever heard of gearing tanks to make the party or raid stronger weird is that like a classic thing?
@@Ithvin How does a guy who looked on LFG a group almost formed and joined a group with 4 other people by just wispering to him spent the same amount of time as the dude who is looking for other 4 people ? If you dont like HR /want to deserve equal loot just make your own group with the same people who thinks that way and problem solved who are you/me to decide the way people play the game ?
@@GreenwoodTony7with guildies that makes a lot of sense. If the tank is strong the dungeons will be cleared safely and without problems. With randoms yeah nah dude I need my stuff
Is this a dps issue that I'm too tank to understand?
Your to meating my friend.
Deciding that someting belongs to you before it even drops is just ninjalooting but with extra steps.
Agreed! Everyone is putting in the work to be there, yet You think you deserve something because you randomly invited all the people. Meh.
@@jnero8141Just don’t join those groups then.
Not even close lol go outside 😂
Yes...exactly thank you. Its still cheating.
Ninjalooting is literal theft. HR is something you are literally laying out in front of everyone in full honesty as a person who wants to play the game a certain way and get gear. Is HR kinda scummy? Yes. Is it even remotely close to ninjalooting? No.
What server are you on?
Having dungeons and parts of dungeons that you can basically never go to like the lower half of BRD because the Warriors won’t is very frustrating
Ive done this pseudo "HR" by applying for groups that dont have hunters. As someone who isnt creating the group I dont feel like it really effects anything. Although other classes can use bows/crossbows/guns but I think its less common that someone will need on them with hunter in group.
I saw it happening constantly with the 2019. It's ok if people do it. But it's crazy how 90% of runs seems to have some kind of hard reserve, then they complain that they can't fill the group. 🤷♂️
Glad i rerolled from rogue at lvl26 to warrior currently lvl44, main reason was how annoying it was to find warrs willing to tank dungs. Easiest way to fix the HR thing during prebis grind is by inviting classes that dont need ur gear very simple.
The people complaining about HRs in raids or dungeons are ALWAYs the people that want to do the least amount of work and play dps so they can watch six streams on their other screens whilst playing.
60 Holy Priest on the PvP EU server here, and I completely agree. The thing that really annoys me is that there is a massive shortage of tanks in certain dungeons because they refuse to join a group with other warriors/rogues, which are by far the most popular melee DPS classes. If I'm running a dungeon with a guild member on one of those classes, it takes ages for us to find a tank, because none of the warriors want to roll with competition for their off-spec DPS gear. I often have to wait 30+ minutes, or sometimes I will get lucky with a feral druid, but that is very rare.
Yep, I completely agree and I’ll never understand people that will dodge groups like this instead of just doing the dungeon five or six times. By the time, they finally find a group with no warrior or rogues they may have waited a whole hour.
I would rather roll against people and play the game then just sit somewhere spamming looking for a group or looking for members for one hour .
This happened in the old days, and it stopped because people refused to run with anyone trying to “reserve” something. It became shameful.
Not an issue on stitches. Why do you think I stayed there?
I absolutely despise HR. I've been tanking on all the classic servers. Never once have I HR anything, nor will I ever join a group with one.
Think about it this way, if you HR an item , for example HoJ, when it drops, you’re gonna pay each of your group members 200g in return, see how many people gonna have problem with you HRing the item? 💀 People just hate they are putting their time into something that doesn’t guarantee anything in return
This is exactly why I'm so excited for the private server Epoch WoW, since its all custom content it'll be like a whole new experience where no one knows what drops from what. Classic now is ran purely as a meta game.. I've had my fun in it, but I can't go back to pure classic again.. I need something extra and fresh.
Well I see your point, the fix is quite easy especially on PvE. Ignore everything and everybody who hardreserves shit. I don't join groups who do it and when people confront me about it they land on my ignore list. This might not be the most social approach, but what they are doing is the antisocial thing so .... them. Also regarding the lategame dungeons, There are still very few casuals 60. To have leveled to lvl 60 is still quite the ordeal and is taking people who arent putting in crazy amounts of time a while. These people will also be more relaxed concerning loot. Don't engage with the tryhard Maincharacters and do your thing. I know it's frustrating but these people aren't worth your while. FInd a guild you enjoy playing with or recruit some friends and play with them. There will be more relaxed groups. And if it's hard to find a raid or dungeongroup put one together yourself. There are plenty of people tired of this bs.
I think HR loot makes sense within a Guild i.e. if the special shield drops, our Raid Tank gets it first. This serves a greater purpose and the person missing out on the loot kind of still benefits from it. Outside of pre-discussed Guild runs, it's a pretty degenerate practice...
This is an issue as old as time (or 2004) theres always been HR groups. Committed guilds who have been there running that instance for weeks dont want some rando coming in and taking potentially the 1 item they have been after, or one that would significantly benefit the raid such as gressil from naxx. Guild comes first. Dont like it, make or join a guild. Youre their guest in raids
At this point, personal loot is starting to sounds good ! if this HR/Reserve continues into TBC.. server will be dead for anyone not doing content with a guild.
The thing that sucks about HR culture is it incentivizes people to do it more in order to get the drop they want themselves.
Hey there. Currently (Dec 15th) what is your opinion of a decent price for small flame sacs? There are a few for 25 s on the NA PVE server. I haven't been following the prices on them though
Its so stupid. Im most of the time building, guiding and tanking groups. Its simple... setup the group with classes and rolls that do not overlapping loot.
My benefit for investing the time and energy is, the assurance I would not pickup loot competition for a specific item I really want. Everyone wins.
The mail helm with 1 crit? What replaces that?
lionheart helm
I'm sure a part of the problem is that the avg age of the gamers in fresh is 30+ and they don't want to sit and waste time farming something for absolutely no reason when the % chance is already like winning the lottery. At least they secure it it, IF it drops
People that HR and need BOEs would probably prefer a game where no gear drops, only a currency in which you use to buy gear from a vendor.
I learned what reserve was in wrath classic and ya I don’t like it I just want to see my item drop and roll for it reserved just made running take longer and complicated runs
Just dont be in a hr group ?
i would just pretend i'm not rolling on it and i would just roll on it
"loot style - master looter" :D man, hr actualy means they 100% will get it :D
So I've read through the arguments in your replies to other comments and I'm just wondering, Why do you reserve your gold guide to only people who pay? The answer is probably because you put the work and effort into making it. The people reserving gear are the one putting the effort into making the groups so people can run them. They want the same thing you do in the end and that's progress.
Creating a guide and making videos is the same level of effort as typing "LFM x Reserved" in WoW chat and then doing a raid?
@@absolutfreak5012 The amount of effort is irrelevant its the fact that he has to put in more effort to make the group rather than someone just joining the group. Effort put out no matter how small is still effort put forth to something they want.
True and real.
@@absolutfreak5012
That's an extreme over simplification. Settings up and leading a raid is way more complex than typing that one message. It can often take longer than expected to form, and could even take an hour in some cases of spamming adverts. Then you have to find out if they are actually geared and not some guy who just hit 60, has greens with stats they don't use, but demands he gets some loot. Then you still have to go throw the monotony of holding their hands through each and every encounter. Constantly reminding them of simple things like, hey go loot the core hound so our skinner can skin it. Every single time.
Finally make it to the boss and check if people actually know the mechanics, nope theres always one aswell as others too scared to say they dont, so you gotta run down the whole encounter. What are the mechanics, how to do them, when to do what. Etc.
We all know majority of players complaining about this fit one if not all of these problems. Shows up unprepared, doesnt have what they need or know what to do, has to be reminded of the most simple things and walked through each boss fight, causes wipes but still wants his BiS items over another who came prepared, knew what to do and performed well. Kick rocks.
This should be pinned 😂 He wants legit money and someone just wants digital items for their time and effort.
Being guildless and lvl 60 is not something I would I thought would have been common
Seriously! I don't believe I could be as helpless as these people make it out to be even if I tried. I'm pretty introverted and shy, play every server and seasonal mode by myself but just by existing in the game world and interacting with people I build bonds with strangers. Even unknowingly. Sometimes I will log in and instantly get messaged like hey you want to come do this, from some dude I partied with one time 20 levels ago... If you're genuine, good and helpful you build an impression on people.
These are all the "me! me! me!" mfers who last only a couple weeks in every new wow game mode.
I think asking certain classes not to roll on an item when it's substantially better for another is fine in some cases (3 agi, 12 int ring, asking the rogue not to roll against the mage for example) and I think 1 or 2 items like the class quest or legendary items is fine, but anything more is cringe
The only way to combat this effectively is to introduce personal loot like retail has. But then it wouldn't be "vanilla" anymore and people wouldn't play it.
Reserving pre-bis items has been the case at every instance of vanilla. I usually make my own groups or ask guildies to help me farm. That has worked fine for me and i play rogue.
As much as it annoys me looking for a group and all of the groups are run by rogues like me or hard reserving items I need, I still have to completely disagree. I just start my own group and with the amount of players looking for groups they fill up rather quickly. Time is valuable to people especially those of us that only have a few hours a day to play during the week. Why would I spend 2 hours on a dungeon I have to roll against 3 people when the item only has a 12% drop chance to begin with? I notice lot of these groups are friends or guildies that are basically carrying the group with the healer and or tank and some of them are just there to help each other out. But they need another 1-2 players to join so they pug a couple. Same with MC groups that are full of 20-30 guildies that have items and materials HR. If you don't want to be a part of that then simply don't join. I don't really see any issue here other then you are either too lazy to start your own group or find a guild that can avoid these issues. You making the claim that this is a "problem that needs to be solved" is the same mentality that led to what is retail wow today. Making things easier for solo players. Classic wow is supposed to be you socializing making groups and joining guilds and having friends to be able to get the gear you want, you don't just get to /roll for that legendary Sulfuras, you need friends to make it happen.
Thats what I was thinking as well. Why not make your own group and invite like-minded people? You're not entitled to the time/effort of someone else going through the trouble of getting a group together, and neither are they to yours IMO
When people "reserve" it's ingame reservation? If not, just roll.
I'm a beginner in WoW (started for the first time 10 days ago on fresh classic)
Went in a group for DM, the tank said after the start of the dungeon that whatever item was reserved, i just said "no, you didn't mentionned that before we start, if i need, i'll roll need" ( i roll need if i need, or i pass if i don't, i don't steal all loot ). He insulted me but continued XD
It's a game, it's prob based, it's part of the game to roll and hope XD
Yeah, don't think it's a nothing burger. I don't like the reserve thingy either. Sometimes people ask, if I need this or that and I'll pass if I don't need the thing they want, but honestly just play the game and let people roll on what they need.
Advertising HR in a LFM message should be banned as GDKPs were. I am aware that in dungeons they could still just invite certain classes to get the loot but, overall, it would still be worth it and that is all that Blizzard can do about it anyway. It is a player behaviour problem like many others in classic.
@MrLemmiwinks91 fair, I disagree with you and that is totally fine.
@MrLemmiwinks91 I understand your take, and I do agree that people rolling for gear that doesn’t fit their class or spec is completely asinine. I was in a UBRS the other day and a Mage rolled on the Melee ring from the last boss (I am melee) because he said it had more stamina than his..
That’s complete bullshit and I put in a ticket, but of course nothing will happen to him.
I do agree that most people can and should just make their own groups if they don’t like the hard reserve culture , but at the same time I also agree that personally I think hard reserve should be banned like GDKP. It destroys replayability and just deters a lot of people from running content.
The whole point after all is to play the game for most people, not just get one item so they can raid log faster . I understand everyone has different takes and not everyone has as much time as other people. This is just how I see it.
Edit: I do understand and respect that making/forming/ runnung a raid in classic is much more difficult than a dungeon. I don’t necessarily think hard reserve should be banned from raids, but I do think it should be banned from dungeons.
Now as that goes in my experience the raid leader is not always the person running the raid so it’s very nuanced situation.
You living in Disney world ?
I even was hated on by another warrior rolling for an axe just because he was an ork and thought it should clearly go to him XD
Only level 46 rn but never once seen a reeserve.
2 things
1) HR culture is for sure out of control, but considering the loot scarcity it's understandable.
2) folks selectively joining groups where there is no loot competing (effectively reserving in a roundabout way) is honestly fine, your group your choice who to invite.
At the end of the day, the problem here isn't the playerbase but the scarcity of the loot. Try to farm HOJ in a 4 melee group, see how fun that is.
Hoj farm as 4 melee is fine exactly how I did it in 2019 problem is finding the healer... We got 3/4 within first few days playing a few hours then got our last one for the tank just before our first raid... Problem is community that single player game in a multiplayer world... Back in 2004 you would basically be added to many ppls ignore list for being a ninja or a selfish prick.. Now it's almost praised that you ninja bis items
@@bushido-z-8400
If you can form a farm group that are willing to stick around until you get the desired loot for all 5 that's fine. That's great, no that's the ideal scenario.
But the problem starts when a person gets their desired loot and dips and that's usually how it goes.
@SirePuns agreed but that's the whole point in the game to find those players who help each other n form a guild group or community together
@@bushido-z-8400
I dunno if I agree that that’s the point of the game.
The game gives you freedom; and one of these freedoms is being a selfish asshole about loot.
@@SirePuns yeah the game allows it now because the playerbase allow it the game was created when Internet was new and being selfish wasn't built into the games design.. This is why blizzard have toiled back n forth in retail with loot distribution for years because there is no perfect solution for a selfish prick. If you look at new game design like final fantasy they are trying everything in their power to produce positive player engagement.
The issue is blizzards lack of transparency on the question of whether or not we will be able to clone our characters to classic era at the end, if we don't want to go to garbage TBC
This is the reason I quit shazzrah server in 2019.. A guy who thought he was the main character of the server called rhythmicbob who would hard res 2 or 3 items per raid and would have a 1 item lock per raid that he could basically pick 1 item per raid to take for him and his friends regardless of the item.. He was a warrior and saw him mid raid pick his locked item as neltharion tear after it dropped for his buddies didn't matter that the item had 7 Sr on it... When I kicked up a fuss everyone in raid who wasn't his buddies acted like this was completely normal like they were blessed to be in such a smooth run. Ppl need to stop pretending they are the main character of the run and raids are fking easy so if you are wiping it's probably because half the raid is afk
Maybe this is a hot take but I don’t think HR is a big problem… TBH I think the main issue is players who never want to start their own groups. If your LFG and all you see is “HR this, HR that” the solution is super simple… Start your own group man.
Also, any one tired about th groups only taking warriors for "cleave"? Warrior and sham seems to be the only desired class now.
I’m a Priest when I make groups I just don’t invite other cloth wearers I get all the drops …don’t see the problem
Nothing but facts! Whenever I start a dungeon group I always put, “no cringe HR” at the end 😂
agree, its REALLY bad this time around...
Dps are interchangeable, if you wanna stuff play what is needed.
you guys didnt want GDKP so people resorting to this now.
Lol they all screeched for aGDKP ban now they’re still crying about the server economy . On era I could gdkp for gold even on fresh 60s in zg, on fresh I’ve already bought gold idgaf I’m a warrior and I want to parse, if anything I believe the gdkp ban has caused more people like me to buy gold bc we can’t gdkp a few hours a week for gold and don’t want to farm for 10 hours a day . .
Never let anyone reserve anything,, period. If you never join with these idiots they wont be enabled to act like idiots.
No one gets in trouble for doing this kind of thing. Becomes more and more normalized.
And I'm sure there's a group of people adding to it. Not surprised.
I ran scholomance for the agi 1h axes 38 times to get one in original classic launch 4 or so years ago. The second one dropped 3 runs later and was taken by a warrior. The next didnt drop til run 51. You can cry me a damn river about HRs. Some people dont have time to play all day every day. Kids, wives, work..etc.
You can be the person to put the runs together if you don't like HR. Like??? I genuinely don't understand.
Bring LFG from retail into classic and don't allow the change of loot rules. This can eliminate HRs. If you don't like LFG, I do not care, don't use it and stick to your elite groups/guilds. It's really that simple. I'm in a great guild but not everyone is as fortunate, and not everyone has the time and just like to play casually. A lot of us are grown, working parents, now. It's like casual play just isn't allowed anymore.
as soon as i see a person lfm and hard res things, i just put them on ignore
The reserving situation now? I've been talking about this since before Classic. I didn't really play nost because it was so damn laggy, but on Elysium - like vanilla - reserving gear was not a thing. Then Light's hope rolled around, and you'd actually see people try to reserve gear in chat. Not often, and they'd be mocked and laughed at, but they tried. Occasionally. Come Northdale, it didn't even warrant a reaction, and by the time Classic rolled around it was downright normal. You're absolutely right everything just gets faggier the more time goes on, but this is not a new phenomenon. I wonder where it came from, though.
People have been using master looter since the moment it existed, champ. What are you talking about?
&Using private servers like Elysium as examples is genuinely laughable. You're telling me people don't HR loot on private servers with a HUGE population count of 56 people? I wouldn't have guessed!
Even it's historical data is hilarious to use as a arguement.
Using a server with a maximum count of less than 6,000 that didnt enjoy it enough to stick around to a population of millions. There's clearly an alterior reason why it wasn't being used commonly in a *drastically smaller community*
What an absolutely loony lapse of logic.
That's why personal loot is so great. But until we don't have it, everybody can do HR as they want. If you don't like it, don't join and play a class/role which is in high demand so you can form your own group and find other players quickly.
But I have to laugh about groups looking for a tank and HoJ is HR. "Good luck finding one buddy"
Wt are we talking here? you dont want grp to hs or always invite you ? this is just basic stuff of wow hs or a group with different class to not fight loot
Only way to fix this would be to make significant changes to loot system in classic wow by adding a bad luck protection in the form of a currency or something. No one wants to run a Dungeon 50 times for an item see it drop and then lose it to some random person. My rule of thumb is I will usually run an instance 5-10 times with open roll and then if the piece I want doesn't drop or I keep losing the rolls I switch to HR.
Everyone should have a blacklist addon or "I remember you addon" and write down those HR guys and not play with them ever again in coming weeks and months. That's the way problems used to be solved.
Blame Blizzard for the accelerated timeline while not changing anything to account for it.
Common sense things would have been done if this team had a clue.
1) IF you want to do an accelerated timeline (bad idea to begin with) you have to give more loot or give similar guaranteed loot you can progress towards. Otherwise you have people who are loot starved going into content which will make them more toxic.
2) IF you want to have anything close to balanced population on Classic PVP you need the pvp trinket in at release or else alliance is pointless. It should have had the pvp ranking system up to rank 3 on launch. Orc stun resist needs to get the Turtle WoW treatment as well because no one wants to play Paladins for a good reason.
3) I would honestly just buff paladins as well (prob less than turtle did though). Why? Because I hate alliance, want to play Horde and never can anymore because everyone rolls horde. Anyone claiming shamans would need a buff is flat out insane. I would main a ele/resto dual spec for raiding all day everyday over every class and spec in WoW. Faceroll better than rank 14 gear, guaranteed raid spot, best group pvp class in the game. With the broken orc racial they are the best class/spec in the game. Kill the orc racial so I can play tauren and outskill people non passively. I'm fine with that.
4) Balance druids? Sure buff their mana, IDC. Feral? Rogue is there. Be honest and admit you play druid cus you failed at rogue. Honesty is good. Feral allows you to beat most rogues who were as bad as you and mages you might struggle with especially if you don't play imp sprint daggers and play that clown hemo spec. Feral hybrid specs is already fine in pvp, you have dual spec and feral is great in TBC. You get a free raid spot, limited loot competition and a solid pvp class. Don't like it, don't play it.
It is one of the reasons why I don't play the game anymore, It's either rank quickly to get good gear from PVP or just be super involved in a good guild that runs 5 man's and get prebis together.
Playing solo is horrible!
I work 60 hours a week, it took me 18 Angerforge kills as a Duo rogue to get my HoJ and that was lucky, i dont blame people AT ALL for HRing items if they make it clear BERORE the run.
If i tried to farm that shit legit, were talking about over 10 hours of PURE Anger/arena/Golem runs assuming that i was going to be the only one rolling.
Realisticly were talking about over a week of trying for this with the minimal amount of playtime i get during the week, which is considered alot to normal none wow degens lol
General problem w wow retail is the more fun but it lack root elements from vanilla
Currently what's breaking wow
Add-ons
Flying
Smaller game
How to fix ; reputation overhaul ; new world map ' the world is big yet so small
World pvp outside of forced events is a must.
That is the vanilla elements retail is lacking as a start
I don’t think HR is that big of deal if it’s one or two items , the drop rates for some items are so low, you can’t blame people , the game needs a way to resolve this , think about the heart break of people running something 20 times and lose it on the 21sr to a random . I don’t do HR runs , but I’ve joined them , and I can understand. They can and should find and in game way to fix this , such as the first need roll is guaranteed, and or multiple needs duplicate class items . I love classic , but some of the item farming especially at low levels is a little crazy , you can out level an item drop way before you get the drop
Building your group so nobody contests items is just smart. Why tf would you take 3 warriors to farm hoj.
Why I stopped playing
Can you complain about how many more boosts than regular groups there are because people are obviously not scared to buy gold like they were in sod ?
I noticed this also on dreamscythe to the point where it was so disgusting I just stopped playing. This classic launch felt so bad compared to 2019. I play shaman heals and people literally just treat me like shit. Dps rolling need on +healing gear should not be allowed. The amount of times this happened to me is actually sad. Also the HR situation is so bad. I like to think those people never get their groups going cause I see it posted so often. If you are afraid to lose a roll on blue prebis raid loot, you are a sad individual that probably has 0 friends.
So make your own group, what's so hard about that?
the overall roll stuff is shit. Just hardcode need/greed for everything, with the class limits, so mages wouldn't be able to roll for the barb physically, and "need" for the resources is open only if you maxed the relevant profession.
I loved to play wow classic back in 2019 and i played it a lot. While raiding i was a minmaxer and liked it a lot.
In Wow fresh classic people are playing like the sweatist sweaty bois.
Zero fun, zero social interaction, everyone is going for minmax in the fastest time possible and now they are standing with their perfect preraid bis gear afk in sw or if
The gold prices are already exploding and most of the people running around with their epic mounts. Asking for help to kill an lvl 40 elite took me days until someone was so kind to help me.
Ninjalooting in the scarlet monestary are also a normal thing and people don't complaining about it, except me
What a garbage experience - lvl 42 warrior with 50g and no mount
I am going to deeinstall this game soon
So I'm going to run scholo 20 times and never see my dagger off the last boss for it to drop on the 21st run and have someone else get it?
This is because people dont actually want to play the game...they just want to get to the end and raid log and treat the game like a joe a job
if you dont like just make your own group. no one is forcing you to join
Hr is ruining pre bis expercience for luckers. The think is taht there are 500000 warriors and rogues and hunters and ferals needing the same items. And more than the 50% of the population are those classes becouse of the context. Parseing is mandatory to solo play, and ppl start to solo play more and more, in mmos mostly becouse of the time those players have versus the other firends times. If you are a nonparser have u have no consumibles becouse are expensive as hell, then u are not gonna get invited. If you are a class that is not op you are not invited. It is wwhat it is. And if you are a class that is op then you you have the same class as the 60% of th e server, or HR or you are not gonna get the geear to do early raids, if you dont do early raids you cant parse, if you cant parse you cant play. This is the pve cicle in every version of thiswow for solo playing. Just role healers and you wont get HR for any item with healing power in it
Parsing culture is 100x more toxic to the game than HR items imo
Hard rezzing Tier is a bit of a joke. A guild should have no problem getting everyone tier, regardless of if a PUG joins every once in a while or not.