As a few commenters have already said, motor braking is done by shorting out the motor (connecting the two terminals somehow), NOT by running two "negative" lines to the motor. Or course, that works because you're creating a short, and the battery is not even involved in that circuit. The battery does not participate at all in motor braking. Motors spin when given electricity, but this also works in reverse. Manually rotating a motor (or just the spinning due to inertia after it loses power) generates electricity (the motor briefly becomes a generator). Motor braking occurs because when you short the motor, any electricity generated by the motor's rotation is fed back into the motor in the opposite direction. Because of this, the motor's own generated electricity actively counteracts it's rotation in either direction. Just wanted to clear that up.
@@jonashediger182 technically speaking yes you could charge a battery by manually spinning a motor but it would take a very very long time and be very very inefficient
Very good discussion of the topic. There are a some details I would add. 1) My understanding is that the "brake line" going from ground to the NC side of the rev switch is low current so its acceptable to use light gauge wire for that leg and 2) because the brake line is low current its possible to add a recycled stock a switch (like the on/off switch from a barricade/stockade) into the "brake line" itself and thereby make the motor braking a selectable feature (modularity of a sort). Also as a bit of trivia: on stock blasters the electronic locks usually engage motor braking to the fly wheels when the jam door is opened or the clip is removed while revving.
Absolutely NOT! The moment the motors are disconnected from the battery, they turn into generators which produce A/C voltage. Short circuiting the motor terminals allows an A/C current to flow (through the "brake line" and the motor). This turns the kinetic energy that is stored in the motors rotation into heat in the coils. This is what puts additional strain on the motor and causes it to "burn out" faster. The current generated by powerful motors such as MTB Wolverines can exceed 100A! Do NOT use low gauge wire or stock Nerf switches! However, the period of time that this current flows is very short. So you don't need components that are rated for a continuous load of 100A. AWG 16 and a 25A switch should do the trick. If you are using MOSFETs for active braking, I recommend a peak rating of at least 150A in order to avoid overheating.
This is a very well done tutorial! I really appreciate your visual aids to compliment the description. Also, showing what happens when wiring incorrectly was very helpful. Thank you for making this video!
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for when it came to an explanation of motor braking. Now I actually understand how it works. Not sure if I'll ever use it for the flywheel motors I might try it just to see how I feel about it.
I think I've commented on this video before, but I rewatch a lot of your videos, there's SO MUCH knowledge and so much to learn. So, again, thank you for that. But, something I've been running into in my stryfe at the indoor field I play at, it's very CQB, and before I can push again, I have to more or less wait for my flywheels to stop, since my blaster is, VERY loud. I just wanted FPS, I also gained a +2 in fear. So I'm debating adding it for faster stealth gain. For referenace, Metal Exclipse cage and flywheels, and krakkens on 3S. But I also use those silicone motor pad things. Honestly idk if they do anything or not, but all that vibration and heat, metal on metal can't be too good. One guy has the quietest minimized rapidstrike ever, but he's been doing this for years, I need to find out his secrets. (I could ask him, but... that starts an arms race on top of the existing arms race, and I'm a slow modder.) Edit: But at the same time, spin up on flywheels might not be as long if they're still spinning? Idk, I rev my blaster like a sports car tbh.
That is the trade off. Stealth vs spin up time. There are other down sides to motor breaking as well. Wear and tear on the motor and it can effect battery life (though probably not much). The noise is the result of vibration. Somewhere in your setup there is an excess of vibration that needs to be sussed out and reduced if you want it quieter. Could be imbalanced wheels, could be loose components, could be bad motors, could be a combination. You will have to tinker to figure it out.
Thc11298 this is correct. Motors produce voltage in opposition to applied voltage while spinning. When you disconnect the battery and short the motor, the flow of current (the motor is generating current now, and no other source exists in the circuit) is forcing the motor to spin the other way.
In my HvZ games, it appears that louder flywheel blasters are better, as loud flywheels often can scare away small hordes. Motor breaking is tacticool though I'll give it that.
awesome video!! very well done sir. wish this was out when I was trying this. I don't remember what I did wrong but I almost blew up my battery lol. luckily I felt the heat instantly when I plugged it in and was able to get it undone fast.
Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you!!! I've been try to understand electric wiring for motors. this was probably the best helpfullest thing. Im in the making of a super stryfe with IMRs and this was super helpful and also your other motor wiring and rewiring of a stryfe vid were super helpfull. Thanks
Motots have usally a set temperature, where they safly work. Without any damage to the the motor itself. Only if you overstep it, it will cause damage. Other than that, every electric and electronic part has a set expected lifetime
Ok, here's the situation, I tried to set this up on my auto rayven last night (was gonna incorporate a switch for it but just wanted to test it for now) Using a low gauge wire just made the wire smoke at both ends. Immediately disconnected the power. Smoke is bad. So tried 18ga wire like the rest of the setup is. Fizzing and sparks before i even pressed the rev trigger once power was connected. Im no expert, but theres no way thats good for the hardware. Im with you, cap. Ill give it a miss!
Well, the good news is that everything still works just fine. But, in theory, it shouldnt short the battery, since it was only linked to the battery via the negative. Ive no idea what went wrong... But i wont try it again. At least, not on my Edgar. (my rayven work in progress) I might just grab one of the many barricades ive got or a cheap stryfe to test it out. Something that could sacrafice itself with minimal loss
afaik, the polarity doesn't matter. important part of electric motorbreaking is to connect both poles on the motors to short it out. and ofc, not to short the battery.
When wiring for dynamic/active braking. When the blaster’s switch is in the resting position and thus active braking engaged: does the circuit keeps pulling current from the source? Or does it stop pulling current once the motors stop?
Cap x, if you said hot glue and epoxy putty is not strong enough by it self, how did you make the stampede strike? Did you bolt the two blasters with screws first or not? A lot of youtubers said theres a thing called devcon, I don’t know how to spell it, what exactly is it?
Put simply, a mosfet's conductivity increases when voltage is applied to it. What that means for us is: we can use it as a switch. Since mosfets can handle very high working loads, we can use a very low current controlled by a basic switch on our rev trigger to open the flow of electrons (by feeding a low current to the gate post on the mosfet) without worrying about the tiny switch being fried by the high amperage upgraded motors draw. By using the switch to feed current to the mosfet, the full flow of electricity is allowed to pass through the mosfet and bypass the switch. You do need a few other components for the system, mainly a fly back diode (to keep voltage from returning to the mosfet when the motor turns into a generator when it is powered off) and a resistor preventing a circuit from being completed between the gate and the source posts.
Hi cap , great vid and explanation, Iv got one request , could you do a puppet show when you do overhead vids , I think it would be very funny And all the best
So cap I Rewired my Desolator with 16 gauge wire and Titan 2s motors and 2 things were very wierd one I didn't have a lipo at the time so I had to use IMRs and they were overheating aaaaaaaand I broke 2 of them and now there dummies and the second thing is that the motors just stopped no rev down time at all I thought it was strange is there any way I put this in my Desolator by accedent because it seems pretty hard to do that
+Scarlet Surge it is possible. Without seeing the wiring I cannot be sure. My next mod tips video will be about diagostics of broken blasters so stay tuned for that.
The switch that comes with the blaster for the jam door and it will brake if you open it. Just saw a video of one but they didn’t explain the wiring at all..
Would it be healthier to use that for the flywheel motor brake? Sorry I’m new to this I appreciate your help SO MUCH. I’m trying figure out a way to tie the momentary safety electric brake switch into the diagram you have in this video..
Oh I see. On the jam door switch (JDS) it would be BAT NEG to JDS NC REV COM to JDS NO JDS to Motor POS The goal being that if the Jam Door is open the switch completes a negative circuit to the positive side of the motors so it halts them. When the door 8s closed it completes the positive circuit from the rev switch so the motors spin.
![[Review] OFP ECLIPSE Cage 200 FPS Nerf Flywheel System (with Installation Tips and Chronograph Test)](/img/n.gif)
As a few commenters have already said, motor braking is done by shorting out the motor (connecting the two terminals somehow), NOT by running two "negative" lines to the motor. Or course, that works because you're creating a short, and the battery is not even involved in that circuit. The battery does not participate at all in motor braking.
Motors spin when given electricity, but this also works in reverse. Manually rotating a motor (or just the spinning due to inertia after it loses power) generates electricity (the motor briefly becomes a generator). Motor braking occurs because when you short the motor, any electricity generated by the motor's rotation is fed back into the motor in the opposite direction. Because of this, the motor's own generated electricity actively counteracts it's rotation in either direction. Just wanted to clear that up.
Carius could you charge your battery with this?
@@jonashediger182 technically speaking yes you could charge a battery by manually spinning a motor but it would take a very very long time and be very very inefficient
What a clean explanation, thanks a lot.
Very good discussion of the topic. There are a some details I would add. 1) My understanding is that the "brake line" going from ground to the NC side of the rev switch is low current so its acceptable to use light gauge wire for that leg and 2) because the brake line is low current its possible to add a recycled stock a switch (like the on/off switch from a barricade/stockade) into the "brake line" itself and thereby make the motor braking a selectable feature (modularity of a sort). Also as a bit of trivia: on stock blasters the electronic locks usually engage motor braking to the fly wheels when the jam door is opened or the clip is removed while revving.
Absolutely NOT! The moment the motors are disconnected from the battery, they turn into generators which produce A/C voltage. Short circuiting the motor terminals allows an A/C current to flow (through the "brake line" and the motor). This turns the kinetic energy that is stored in the motors rotation into heat in the coils. This is what puts additional strain on the motor and causes it to "burn out" faster.
The current generated by powerful motors such as MTB Wolverines can exceed 100A! Do NOT use low gauge wire or stock Nerf switches! However, the period of time that this current flows is very short. So you don't need components that are rated for a continuous load of 100A. AWG 16 and a 25A switch should do the trick. If you are using MOSFETs for active braking, I recommend a peak rating of at least 150A in order to avoid overheating.
This is a very well done tutorial! I really appreciate your visual aids to compliment the description. Also, showing what happens when wiring incorrectly was very helpful. Thank you for making this video!
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for when it came to an explanation of motor braking. Now I actually understand how it works. Not sure if I'll ever use it for the flywheel motors I might try it just to see how I feel about it.
Captain, thank you!! I had no idea what the hell motor breaking was! This series has been incredibly helpful. Keep it up!!!
In flywheel blasters they do it with the jam doors so it stops before little Jimmy can stick his fingers in the flywheels.
I'm liking the rain in the background
I always thought that motor breaking was a absolute pain to wire up, but this makes it so much easier
I think I've commented on this video before, but I rewatch a lot of your videos, there's SO MUCH knowledge and so much to learn. So, again, thank you for that.
But, something I've been running into in my stryfe at the indoor field I play at, it's very CQB, and before I can push again, I have to more or less wait for my flywheels to stop, since my blaster is, VERY loud. I just wanted FPS, I also gained a +2 in fear. So I'm debating adding it for faster stealth gain. For referenace, Metal Exclipse cage and flywheels, and krakkens on 3S. But I also use those silicone motor pad things. Honestly idk if they do anything or not, but all that vibration and heat, metal on metal can't be too good.
One guy has the quietest minimized rapidstrike ever, but he's been doing this for years, I need to find out his secrets.
(I could ask him, but... that starts an arms race on top of the existing arms race, and I'm a slow modder.)
Edit: But at the same time, spin up on flywheels might not be as long if they're still spinning? Idk, I rev my blaster like a sports car tbh.
That is the trade off. Stealth vs spin up time. There are other down sides to motor breaking as well. Wear and tear on the motor and it can effect battery life (though probably not much).
The noise is the result of vibration. Somewhere in your setup there is an excess of vibration that needs to be sussed out and reduced if you want it quieter. Could be imbalanced wheels, could be loose components, could be bad motors, could be a combination. You will have to tinker to figure it out.
@@CaptainXavier thank you Captain! :D
Love the demo of how motors work.
Well, that clears that up for me. Not sure why people would motor brake flywheels, but that is their prerogative. Now, pushers...
I believe it's just the closed circuit of the motor it's self rather than a "negative circuit" but i may be wrong myself
Thc11298 this is correct. Motors produce voltage in opposition to applied voltage while spinning. When you disconnect the battery and short the motor, the flow of current (the motor is generating current now, and no other source exists in the circuit) is forcing the motor to spin the other way.
Thank you for explaining
Before whatching this, i was going to make some weird shit in my blaster
Now i can make pusher control easily
thank you for this! i am also installing a volt meter. this just saved me from exploding my battery!!
Excellent illustrations
In my HvZ games, it appears that louder flywheel blasters are better, as loud flywheels often can scare away small hordes. Motor breaking is tacticool though I'll give it that.
awesome video!! very well done sir. wish this was out when I was trying this. I don't remember what I did wrong but I almost blew up my battery lol. luckily I felt the heat instantly when I plugged it in and was able to get it undone fast.
Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you!!! I've been try to understand electric wiring for motors. this was probably the best helpfullest thing. Im in the making of a super stryfe with IMRs and this was super helpful and also your other motor wiring and rewiring of a stryfe vid were super helpfull. Thanks
Thank captain these videos help a lot
Keep up the fantastic work have a great day
Motots have usally a set temperature, where they safly work. Without any damage to the the motor itself. Only if you overstep it, it will cause damage. Other than that, every electric and electronic part has a set expected lifetime
Great way to show and explain it. Good vid. TkEZ»UK
Ok, here's the situation,
I tried to set this up on my auto rayven last night (was gonna incorporate a switch for it but just wanted to test it for now)
Using a low gauge wire just made the wire smoke at both ends. Immediately disconnected the power. Smoke is bad.
So tried 18ga wire like the rest of the setup is.
Fizzing and sparks before i even pressed the rev trigger once power was connected.
Im no expert, but theres no way thats good for the hardware.
Im with you, cap.
Ill give it a miss!
Sounds like you shorted out the battery...not good...
Well, the good news is that everything still works just fine.
But, in theory, it shouldnt short the battery, since it was only linked to the battery via the negative.
Ive no idea what went wrong... But i wont try it again.
At least, not on my Edgar. (my rayven work in progress)
I might just grab one of the many barricades ive got or a cheap stryfe to test it out.
Something that could sacrafice itself with minimal loss
Sweet info Cap, never knew about this.
Another disadvantage is that when the gun is being stored it will slowly drain energy from teh battery to stop teh motor even when not needed
Very Interesting
Very informative
VERY helpful
THANKS!!!
I would also imagine the abrupt stop is not good for the flywheels.
Could you do a mod tips episode on shell cutting? I find a lot of mod guides require it and I don’t know how properly
I will eventually cover integrations and shell cutting will be covered then.
afaik, the polarity doesn't matter. important part of electric motorbreaking is to connect both poles on the motors to short it out. and ofc, not to short the battery.
When wiring for dynamic/active braking. When the blaster’s switch is in the resting position and thus active braking engaged: does the circuit keeps pulling current from the source? Or does it stop pulling current once the motors stop?
It stops. There is no longer a completed circuit anywhere in the blaster.
i JUST wonder this is not the same thing as Regenerative breaking is it? I mean with this kind of breaking the engine can't recharge the battery?
THANK U You r such a good teacher for nerf
Is she done, Captain?! My stampede there?
Cap x, if you said hot glue and epoxy putty is not strong enough by it self, how did you make the stampede strike? Did you bolt the two blasters with screws first or not? A lot of youtubers said theres a thing called devcon, I don’t know how to spell it, what exactly is it?
Yes, I used screws. DevCon is a company that makes adhesives. They make everything from epoxy to super glue. All very strong.
Then why don’t you use it?
Hey Cap.
Do you know how a MOSFET works and what it is good for?
If so, could you make a similar video about the use of a MOSFET?
Thanks, Jacob
I do not. Not yet. It is on my list of things to learn.
Put simply, a mosfet's conductivity increases when voltage is applied to it. What that means for us is: we can use it as a switch. Since mosfets can handle very high working loads, we can use a very low current controlled by a basic switch on our rev trigger to open the flow of electrons (by feeding a low current to the gate post on the mosfet) without worrying about the tiny switch being fried by the high amperage upgraded motors draw. By using the switch to feed current to the mosfet, the full flow of electricity is allowed to pass through the mosfet and bypass the switch. You do need a few other components for the system, mainly a fly back diode (to keep voltage from returning to the mosfet when the motor turns into a generator when it is powered off) and a resistor preventing a circuit from being completed between the gate and the source posts.
Ang Abrams, so it's a way of using a small switch for a large current?
Ang Abrams thank you so much. Now I now the how it works, I just need to now how to wire it. A diagram would be helpful.
Zero Blade precisely
Hi cap , great vid and explanation, Iv got one request , could you do a puppet show when you do overhead vids , I think it would be very funny
And all the best
You know...I like this idea...
So cap I Rewired my Desolator with 16 gauge wire and Titan 2s motors and 2 things were very wierd one I didn't have a lipo at the time so I had to use IMRs and they were overheating aaaaaaaand I broke 2 of them and now there dummies and the second thing is that the motors just stopped no rev down time at all I thought it was strange is there any way I put this in my Desolator by accedent because it seems pretty hard to do that
+Scarlet Surge it is possible. Without seeing the wiring I cannot be sure. My next mod tips video will be about diagostics of broken blasters so stay tuned for that.
Captain Xavier kk thx
Yo can you add this to the current flywheel modding playlist?
done, thanks for the reminder
does this work with a mosfet in the cirquit?
No. While it is possible to implement motor breaking using mosfets it is more complicated than this circuit.
How do I use the motor brake momentary switch? Would it help or work with the regular switch?
...you lost me...
The switch that comes with the blaster for the jam door and it will brake if you open it. Just saw a video of one but they didn’t explain the wiring at all..
What about it? What are you trying to do with it?
Would it be healthier to use that for the flywheel motor brake? Sorry I’m new to this I appreciate your help SO MUCH. I’m trying figure out a way to tie the momentary safety electric brake switch into the diagram you have in this video..
Oh I see. On the jam door switch (JDS) it would be
BAT NEG to JDS NC
REV COM to JDS NO
JDS to Motor POS
The goal being that if the Jam Door is open the switch completes a negative circuit to the positive side of the motors so it halts them. When the door 8s closed it completes the positive circuit from the rev switch so the motors spin.
omg thank u...ur video helped me decide to come up with a physical breaking system 4 my mods
Is it possible that I wired it right and the motor braking not work?
Anything is possible.
Exploding lipo you say? I guess I'll wait to mod stryfes...
Omar Aguayo , it's mainly used for pusher motors, so you wouldn't use it in a strife if you keep it semi-auto
Can you explain how to brake one battery to two motors.
What?
Captain Xavier it was sort of confusing when you put one motor and one battery scince I'm powering two motors with one battery
Geek Gaming Studios once you have wired your motors together in their flywheel cage you can treat it as a single unit.
Captain Xavier thanks
hey captain I found another Buzz Lightyear blaster
Hey yeah?
Captain Xavier yeah do you want a picture?
sure
Captain Xavier how would I send you that?
Dan email
Common and normally open never complete right..
Common and Normally Open are completed when the Switch is pressed. Common and Normally Closed are completed with the Switch is not pressed
Captain Xavier thank you I was seeing it backwards
now i know.
ay ay captain
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How do I identify my switch terminals?
Most switches have them labeled on the switch.
Hi
Hello