Sir Edward Elgar - The Sketches for Symphony No. 3 Elaborated by Anthony Payne (1998 Proms Premiere)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- 1. Allegro molto maestoso 0:18
2. Scherzo: allegretto 17:06
3. Adagio solenne 26:54
4. Allegro 41:39
Applause and credits 56:35
SIR EDWARD ELGAR
The Sketches For Symphony No. 3
elaborated by
Anthony Payne
Proms Premiere, and the second public performance of the completed symphony.
BBC Symphony Orchestra
conducted by
Sir Andrew Davis
I was very fortunate to attend a concert performance of this magnificent work at the Sydney Opera House by this wonderful orchestra and conductor. There is so much Elgar in the elaboration that I’m sure that Sir Edward would be mighty pleased that Anthony Payne was able to persuade the Elgar family/trust to allow him to proceed with the venture. The result, for me, is an outstanding piece of orchestral music that will be performed and listened to over many generations. Bravo Anthony Payne, Sir Andrew and BBC Symph.
I live in Sydney - don't remember them coming at all.
We'll never know, of course, what Elgar's final intentions were with this beautiful realization but I for one will take Elgar heard through another's veil than 20 other composers out there. He is unique. This is a full blooded, emotionally rich work-- a beautiful blend of Elgar's noblemente (that beginning big tune is classic Elgar) mixed with wistfulness (also Elgar)--the composers trademark emotional ambiguity. Payne's effort was nothing short of heroic and a labor of love--and he should be thanked by one and all in a somewhat thank less task. If this symphony is not all Elgar its all in the SPIRIT of the great composer--the melodies, structure, MOOD, spirit--everthing feels Elgar, feels right. Payne channeled Elgar, like Sussmyer channeled Mozart in the Requiem. This reconstruction is a service to the composer, to the music loving public--and to posterity.
Well said Windstorm. This music is so compelling. A labour of love, and remarkably true to the spirit of Elgar. The only regret is that Elgar left no provisional sketches for Symphony No 4 for Anthony Payne to work upon. Altogether a breath-taking and truly inspiring achievement.
Beautifully expressed sentiments to which I enthusiastically concur.
Rest in peace, Anthony Payne.
Anthony Payne has done a magnificent job of bringing a part-written Elgar symphony to inspirational completion. Robert Simpson said of Sibelius that he "allowed himself to be ensnared by his themes - thereby ensnaring them". Anthony Payne has similarly allowed himself to be ensnared by the fragmented themes left by Elgar and through his own inspiration and dedication to the spirit of Elgar has produced an emotionally satisfying musical masterpiece.
Astonishing musicality! I can't believe I avoided Elgar for nearly 60 years based on a hearty dislike of Pomp and Circumstance. Discovering all the rest he wrote has seemed like finding treasure. And this finding is just gold.
Elgar did the big patroitic tunes like nobody else (I love them all dearly) but his more serious work - the symphonies, the cello and violin concerti, Gerontius, Sea Pictures, it goes on... all works of pure genius.
I've long felt Elgar was famous for the wrong music. Pomp and Circumstance is great fun and nicely patriotic (very 'prommy', if you like that), but is far from his best work.
Joanne: yes, my father only heard the Pomp and Circumstance March #1, over and over, when he was a child in London during WWII. When I first discovered Elgar in the early 1980's, my dad told me, "oh, I hated hearing that Pomp and Circumstance March. The BBC would play it to rally the country", etc. My dad was certainly an English patriot, so I suppose he didn't like the actual militaristic, regimented feel of the march, although the song is more than that. I personally would say the 5th march is my favorite march. It has more of what William Butler Yeats called "heroic melancholy". But I wish I had the ability to have opened my dad's mind to Elgar's symphonies, later in my dad's life. The first movement of the 1st symphony, if that's all I had on a desert island for the rest of my life, would keep me much more alive.
A most wonderful piece of music performed majestically by an exceptional orchestra. I’ve commented before but I’m always excited to return to this performance.
Since the first hearing of this reconstruction, I have thought that it is worthy to stand beside the two completed symphonies. Magnificent, moving music.
Davis' passion for Elgar is palpable. He reminds me of Dickie Attenborough in some ways; most English and a true champion in his field, even though he's been in America for quite a while now. His feel for this piece is from the heart, as seen in the slow adagio movement which I have always felt depicts music from the deathbed; so hauntingly beautiful, yet leaves one drained of melancholic emotion by the movement's end with nowhere to go. I bought the very first recording made of this and within a short few weeks my regular correspondent Lady Bliss, (or 'Trudi' to her friends), made enquiry if I'd heard the piece. I duly posted my CD to her and the work was met with much approval. It made me think of her late husband, Sir Arthur, who, as a young soldier in the trenches during WW1 received a signed copy of the score of 'Cockaigne', sent directly from Sir Edward who took an interest in the young composer's development in music. Written inside the score was the inscription, 'Good luck'. Nice to see the RAH as it should be instead of all the dreadfully overdone projected lighting nonsense, no-doubt dream't up by some adolescent tv producer in recent years. All detracting (or distracting) of the sole purpose of the Proms, which is to present music, but don't get me started on the now distorted remit of programming that has taken hold in the name of 'populism'. It will soon be playing host to 'Punk at the Proms' if this new age BBC has it's way. So nice to come here and relive the Proms as they should be, as well as hearing Payne's masterstroke genius realisation in a live concert.
When this was issued on a CD and also the accompanying CD of the sketches only, it was a revelation This is a powerful and beautiful work! One must give Anthony Payne so much credit and kudos for bringing this work to life! Masterful, inspired, and wonderful! Thank you composer Payne and the uploader! I really love this work.
It was through my recommendation, that this recording was first heard in Canada coast to coast on the CBC Radio.
This is, whether you support it or otherwise, a remarkable achievement by a man who lived and breathed Elgar for some some considerable time. I hope it will once again feature in concert programmes in the near future. In fact this is nothing short of a miracle. Would Elgar have approved? We will never know, but I think he would well have said "Bleddy good guess, old boy!" ...
Ich bin immer so traurig, dass Elgar nur kleine Fragmente komponiert hat. Der Anfang ist nämlich so herrlich und wundervoll. Das ist Elgar, wie ich ihn am liebsten mag! Ewige Schade. :(
Translated. Mr. Elgarian 8 years ago I'm always so sad that Elgar only composed small fragments. Because the beginning is so glorious and wonderful. This is Elgar the way I like him best! Eternal pity. :
This does what it says - gives a chance to hear the sketches in a convincing performable version, the 1st movement having the fullest sketches.
My favorite Elgar
Discovered at age 59
Brought here by today's sad news re Anthony Payne, I found this tremendously enjoyable. I really did.
I look forward to hearing it again and again.
When listening to this beautiful music I can hear the influence of Edward German
This is magnificent. I read somewhere that certain sketches from, what would have been Elgar's third and final oratorio in his attempted trilogy, appear hear in this work also. The oratorios that would have made up this trilogy are "The Apostles", "The Kingdom"... and the one that was never written, "The Last Judgment". It is so interesting to read about composers' unfinished works, or pieces that they thought of but never really attempted officially.
This is a composition of great value!
The works has a lot of similarities (in thematic material) with the beautiful String Quartet from 1918. Did Elgar use this work as a basis for writing this Symphony? Reed should have noticed this...
A great performance of a great work. Anthony Payne's realization of the score is truly remarkable though I do have some reservations. I do not feel that the Mantovani-like scales in the first movement are convincing as they are not very "Elgarian". The last movement ends with a stroke on the gong, which for me, is more fitting for the end of an orchestral work by Havergal Brian! But that said it is a remarkable achievement to be able to get into Elgar's head, as it were and produce this work for all to enjoy. Hitherto we have only had about thirty-odd pages of Elgar's sketches in the back of W.H. Reed's Book "Elgar as I Knew Him".
Purists may argue that it is not true Elgar. Well, a lot of it is pure conjecture that much is true, but one has to ask oneself a question: would I be without this piece, or would I at least have a glimpse of what Elgar might have given us had he lived to complete it? I for one would certainly have this.
We all owe Anthony Payne a huge debt for bringing Elgar's sketches to life for us all.
Perhaps you've not listened to Elgar's orchestration of Bach's C minor preliude and fugue ... many "Mantovani-like" scale passages in it.
@@foveauxbear I agree the fingerprints are all found in Elgar. Indeed the scales might actually be in the sketches. It's worth seeking out the talk by Anthony Payne on what he put together and how.
@@ayethein7681 -- Indeed.....BRAVO from Acapulco!
Elgar did, however, compose quite a bit (almost all in 'short score' with many orchestration guidelines, but he orchestrated very little himself. Anthony Payne has recorded a CD on which he explains with musical examples how he worked out Elgar's sketch.
❤
A truly great occasion and knowing that Tony Payne's health suffered so much in the effort adds to the entity in time.
For all that, and as much as we all like to think that Elgar 3 would have sounded like this we have know way of knowing.
I feel that Elgar's sketches hinted heavily at a stronger 1st movement which he would have returned to and possibly altered or replaced. Payne was effectively left with a 'weak' start and sketches for the last movement were too sparse to give much of a clue. The slow movement is the most 'Elgarian' but I could never understand why much of the orchestration sounded like Delius. Elgar had no time for Delius. The little scherzo is convincing enough and we owe Tony Payne so much.
But this is not Elgar's Symphony No 3.
Não é um comentário é um pedido . Posso ouvir música do filme "um homem e uma mulher "?
Splendid effort. Just a few laggy moments that don't gel. Perhaps the 3rd movement is the most successful.... Just a shame the 1st subject in the 1st movement is so.....empty? Compare with the unbelievable 1st Symphony or exhuberance of the 2nd....
The bare boned opening of the symphony is one of the few parts of the score fully completed by the composer himself.
that 3rd movement is curiously similar to bernard herrman
@@fjbeck4048 the other way around.... surely? The Elgar 3rd movement sketch was the most complete and most faithful to original. It predates Herrmann .
@@fjbeck4048 The 2nd theme of this 3rd movement reminds us of Schumann (especially the slow movement of his 2nd symphony in C major).
@mapgugh7898 I've had a 5 yr think about this! Now I happen to have had access to the sketches as a music student at Birmingham Uni. Barber institute library. But it was back in the 80s.
I think that the opening may have been completed. But I stand by what I said. It's not a great idea. Occasionally Elgar came up with ideas like this. There's a similar repetitive and dull idea in El Alassio. Another in Falstaff.
So I think we can both be right.
There's plenty else to like in this rendering but there was no guarantee Elgars creative juices were up to the task of a full symphony at this time. And I think some of the motifs betray this.
What I do recall very well though was the final 18 bars of the last movement. I played them through on a piano and recall that there was a definite sense of something great coming to a close.
For myself.... I'm happy that the last official piece is Mina and not this. I think that very fine. Touching, intimate and Sad. Music written for himself... not the general public.