He does it AGAIN for almost another ten minutes about 33 minutes into it. Why on EARTH would anyone want to do this not just once, but (at least) twice?! 😵 I haven't finished it yet, maybe it happens a third time. 😏 So glad there's a thumbnail as you slide over the timeline so it's easy to tell where it ends. :P
Will say, I love this setup of taking a decade of coverage on a specific film/franchise, putting it all together, and then including what are essentially footer notes that contextualize it in the history of the time and now. It's bonkers how much of it is happening around the other big film industry decisions that are still effecting now like the Marvel universe & Dark Knight Rises, and how the Twilight trend was really rolling along in a way that we still kind of feel.
I do think The Lizard can work as a villain, but you have to show Conners’ struggle with his handicap. A “Day-in-the-Life” montage would do wonders here. You have to EARN his frustration before he does something so reckless. Remember, this guy already has a FAMILY. He has to have proper motivation to risk EVERYTHING in a world where he can have a prosthesis that works almost as well as a normal arm. Maybe his specific injury prevents him from getting a prosthesis.
I rewatched this myself the other day. The thing that really struck me was the editing. It is TERRIBLE. Think Webb’s scenes were probably two long and drawn out so Sony just chopped the hell out of it
Can we take a second to appreciate just how accurate your prediction of the amazing Spider-Man 2 was based off the initial trailer? That was incredibly impressive
In defense of everyone saying there needs to be a third Andrew Garfield movie, I think it has more to do with the actor pouring his heart and soul into this go around than he was given any ability to do in the previous two films. Same production team? Hell no, but Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man with a half decent writer and director? Yeah, that could be fun. But seriously, TASM were terrible films and that must not be unacknowledged in this discussion.
Doesn't even need to pour his heart out, Garfield is just a really strong actor and him half-assing it is probably still better acting than most comic heroes acting.
Nobody wants the same people who made 1 and 2 to make Amazing Spiderman 3. They just want a new director and a new writer and bring Andrew Garfield back with Kevin Feige off in the corner overseeing everything and holding everyone's hand just to make sure nothing terribly awful happens
@@jadedheartsz People say opinions can't be wrong and then you post that nonsense lol They were bad. So bad, Sony basically lost control over Spider-Man because of it
I think what people want is an actual Amazing Spider-Man Movie. Not "Contractual Obligation: The Movie" or "Sony's Spider-man Cinematic Universe Preview." Garfield had some good moments in No Way Home that you could easily build a character arc off.
There were also a few aspects in the Amazing Spider-Man Movies which were genuinely well done. The relationship between Peter and Gwen. Peter struggling with doing the right thing more than his counterparts. The swinging scenes. The portrayal of Flash (still the best Flash to date if you ask me). And at least I love the crane scene.
my mood in every moment he was in no way home was wonder at, when he's in good material like there, it's kinda magical how he just kind of works and has an energy all his own different than Tobey or Tom and that's worth exploring, I can definitely see why people want more now
Yeah but seeing how Sonys movies that weren’t into the spiderverse or basically done by marvel studios have been complete dumpster fires I just see them messing it up again
Yeah, I would have preferred to have Bob, or hell, just a _person,_ read out the written review, rather than the robot voice from those Reddit post TikToks
I love MovieBob's work, but no. No one wants The Game Overthinker, especially not now that there are thousands of other people who make TH-cam videos about games, and many are better at it than Bob Chipman even has a hope of being.
I don't think many people are actually asking for more Amazing Spiderman, nor even the specific Spiderman that Garfield played, as they want Garfield getting a chance to play a Spiderman that's in a decent film. I notice that when people do say they want more of that Spiderman when you ask what they mean they always clarify that they want a better version of it, or a better script, or better director - essentially, whatever one thing they attribute the failure of the film to given human tendencies to blame a failure on one thing. It's unrealistic since the problems with those films are from the executive decisions up and bled into direction, script, and edit so it will take binning the entire two films to work. A new and highly-comparable Spiderman that happens to also be Garfield could be fine, but at that point why even shackle it to AMS?
No, no. Ever since No Way Home (which I love for the record), people have been trying to will into existence that ASM2 was good actually and that they should revive that series.
And Bob buying up his content from his former employer to relaunch it with Google Translate is STILL less cynical ad-spinning than anything Soney did with The Amazing Spider-man.
I'm sorry, but this TTS is awful. I'd much rather have the video missing the articles, or have notes saying "links to these can be found in the description" than sit through this.
Re-reading old Escapist "Intermission" Columns would actually be pretty cool, for future reference. Edit: Even singing a parody of the 60's Spider-Man theme risks a copyright strike? Sounds very... TH-cam. :/
Can I just say it was incredibly grating to listen to a digitized version of that first article. It's pretty clear from the context of this video that it's a long-term retrospective I don't understand the purpose of digitizing it instead of just recording it yourself. I'm obviously here because I'm a fan of yours and like to listen to you talk. Also that ding noise is way too loud. Whether I have headphones in or I'm listening while I'm driving in the car those dings are always obnoxiously loud.
Comparing this Peter Parker to Edward Cullen? Fuck, you nailed everything wrong with this depiction of the character in that brief section perfectly XD You obviously aren't the only one who made the Twilight comparison, but you sure did the best job articulating it XD
In his early appearances in the comics, the Lizard actually could control reptiles, and he tried several world-domination schemes, one of which was to turn everyone into Lizard-people. There was even an episode of SMTAS focused on a sewer-dwelling society of Lizards who worshipped Curt Connors as a godly father figure.
Right. This is because in a serial comic-book, especially in "early Spider-Man" there wasn't like a sense of thematic heft you had to keep in tune with the character. That version of silly comic book jank would work in a film focusing on silly comic book jank.
That was cool to see, but please, if you do this again, actually read the columns. The text to speech thing was... not good. Hearing the articles read in a complete monotone with no concept of even the bold text you put in really hurts them.
It’s interesting revisiting what made the TASM movies and Garfield’s original portrayal had because NWH sort of stands that on its head. Your Spider-Man too cool to be Peter Parker? Then put him on a team where he’s not the protagonists and make fun of him by pairing him with an older, wiser, Tobey McGuire and the Spider-Man who fought Thanos.
That part was hilarious. "I fought an alien, made of black goo." "I fought a big alien, but he was purple and had these magic rocks." "You guys fought aliens?" It was also funny to watch MCU Peter react to the other Peters not hearing of the Avengers before.
Hahahaha, I love it! They tried to "Turn Spiderman into Batman, and Peter Parker into Edward Cullen." Not they have completed the circle and turned Edward Cullen into Batman!
I'm honestly kinda floored that people are actually campaigning for ASM3 now. Especially when some of those people are like "yeah those first 2 movies sucked or were at best mediocre, but now they can get it right!". I can't help but feel like this is one of those situations where fandom is trying to do a retcon: convincing themselves that something generally disliked is now somehow good and deserving of a second chance.
I disliked these movies when they first came out, and I got so much crap for it, people said I was just mad that it's not Sam Rami and that I'm an old man.... Well they're right about both those things, but now a lot more people admit to not liking them either.
It's crazy, right? I got flak way back when, and now fans of the series are getting flak. Can't we all just be happy in collective nerdness? As I get older I realize more n more, I really don't care if people agree with me or not, as long as we all respect each other
The thing is that if you watch them in a void, they aren't "bad", they are enjoyable. But what makes these movies (kind of) work, imo, is that they have such generic structure, that even if they have inconsistent characters, you can fill in the blank, because you've already watched so many movies like it. So, if you wanted a "more mature" version of Spiderman, you can make ASM franchize to be it. And probably forget that the movie only works because you already like spiderman, from someone else's work. It is also relevant now the question of how and why these movies failed. Because "Dark Universe", "DCEU", etc; failed at doing the same thing: making a trailer and a presentation of future movies, instead of making a movie. We weren't used to this trend by ASM2, but we are now. So we can detect the problem more easily.
18:12 its good to see Moviebob big upping himself. He was on the money with this. Little did past us know that good if not one of the best Spider-man movies was still to come. And it would be animated and be about Miles. Funny ol world isn't
Those digital readouts made this a lot of work to get through. I mean, the content quality keeps me going, but if I was slightly less interested in the subject I would have bailed around the 8:00 mark. Perhaps thats visible on the viewing statistics? How about reading it with a slight pitch-shifting or something to mark a difference, if the goal is to avoid it sounding like a current opinion. Or get someone else to read it, altough I'm not sure how well someone else would read your rythm. EDIT; Or what about an slight "old-time-radio-announcer" effect, just enough to be different without being distracting? And if it's more work to make the production with pictures and stuff, keep the scrolling text! Fine! I'll take it, just change the voice.
Personally, I'm not asking for more of the same. I'm asking for an Amazing Spider-Man with Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man. I'd like to see new writers pen a story focused on a college aged or older Spider-Man and I'm cool if it runs along side the currently Tom Holland movies as a non-MCU, actual Amazing Spider-Man.
29:55 Well...ok...the thing is, I want to see more of what Garfield is doing in NWH in a movie where the creative team is put together by the Feige and the people at Marvel. Instead what I'm sure we'll get is just Garfield fighting villains alongside Morphius and Venom or something bad like that.
Exactly. What we were intrigued about was Garfield demonstrating that he could be a good Spider-Man when not weighed down by a terrible script. Incidentally, I watched another TH-camr talking about the X-Men franchise th-cam.com/video/JapWzIV1XDw/w-d-xo.html , and he said not once but twice that 'casting is everything' (in the context of Hugh Jackman being cast as Wolverine). Garfield in ASM is just one counter-example.
I don't think anyone wants more AMS movies, everyone I've seen talking about just want more Andrew Garfield AS Spiderman, IN movies. But every post I've seen along those lines have also said stuff like "just make sure he's got a good script! and a good director! Make sure the movies are GOOD, but just with HIM in them!" That's the tone I've seen from everyone. And, as someone who never saw either AMS movie, because they looked really bad to me, I gotta say I DID enjoy his Peter Parker in No Way Home. And yeah, I would like to see other films with him in it. Do a reboot of his franchise, or whatever, don't really care. But it was fun seeing him be Parker in that film, and I wouldn't be against seeing more of it in a good film.
No, there's definitely a lot of batshit "these movies were great actually" nonsense from people who I can only assume were 12 when ASM came out and can't see it for what it is. I'm in for more Garfield as Spidey but these movies need to be buried in a lead vault forever.
@@Keldroc *shrugs* No comment personally. Never saw them, as they didn't look good to me from the trailers. But I did enjoy Andrew's performance, and think he'd be a fun Peter in a better set of films.
@@happyninja42 I hope at the most he’s the Spider-Man in Sonys venom verse and hopefully he can pull a good one and make it so those movies are worthwhile
I understand the intent behind it, but I have to agree with everyone else here saying the text-to-speech parts don't work. Either read them yourself or don't include text-based articles.
I remember when I saw amazing Spider-Man in theaters, when the movie was over there was an older couple with their grandson and the grandpa said " are you serious they're going to be making more of these "
Because of money. If the second movie did well, they wouldn’t have ran to Disney/Marvel. The quality of a movie is only an indirect influence in this case.
@@Kevo6492 I’d say the quality of a movie (especially in the context of a never ending franchise IP like spider man) has a direct influence on how much money it makes.
@@brettc6132 I mean it’s very subjective isn’t it? I don’t think Venom is a particularly good movie or quality film, and I think most people would say so, but it still made a lot of money, hence a sequel. It’s more so audience reaction in the form of ticket sales.
Sony aren't the best at managing some of their IP. Case in point Morbius had a teaser released in Jan 20. No Way Home was successfully filmed, marketed and released before the Leto C-tier Marvel movie is released.
I still think you are wrong about Homecoming. The stakes are minor, I grant that, but it deals with something no prior Spidey film did - an actually teenaged Peter where asking someone out to the dance was just as big a deal as fighting Vulture. That is where the film works so spectacularly and stands out from the others (that does not mean it is better though).
At some point, you could go into Dune? I don't just mean the movie. There's the books, the David Lynch movie, the two miniseries and I think a comic series? And games?
Haven’t seen any of the Tom Holland Spidermen movies. My coworkers at Blockbuster are always asking me “When are you gonna see Spider-Man? Have you seen the first episode of Boba Fett?!?” Lol. How do I tell this kids I don’t give a shit about Disney? It feels like I’m gonna break their little hearts lol
I haven't done my usual of liking the video, because, Bob: that text-to-speech you used is *awful*. It actively ruins the compilation for me, although I'm at least letting it play in the background and just hunting around the seek bar to watch the video portions so you get some of that YT Premium pittance. (The opinions themselves are fine. :P )
Something I really want and sadly won't ever get because DC is DC, is a Batman Arkham franchise version of Batman on the big screen. The dark camp of the Arkham games is the perfect version of Batman, and would be amazing to see in movie form. I think to a lesser extent the rest of the DC cinematic universe would work with that kind of aesthetic, but for Batman it works so much better than the gritty realism they'e always going for. Marvel is the more grounded of the two comic book universes, and even they didn't make the mistake of going for realistic.
29:57 Bob... people are not asking for more shit-tastically horrible Amazing Spider-man films... Practically everyone is in agreement that ASM1&2 are soulless piles of garbage churned out by a studio who doesn't actually care about the property but only wanted to hold onto the rights to the character so they can keep their wallets nice and fat. That's not up for debate in ANY sense. We're asking specifically for more Andrew Garfield as Spider-man, who did a damn good job in No Way Home by reminding people that he did a great job with the shitty material he was given in his solo movies. He managed to pull off being a great Spider-man while stuck in two horrible Spider-man films. Now, will we get a well-written ASM film with Sony still in control? Most likely not. But given that the MCU stepped in and managed to redeem the Garfield version of the character in the best possible way, which let's face it practically NOBODY anticipated, there is the *possibility* of seeing Garfield's Spider-man in a movie NOT designed to chortle every set of balls on Sony's film-making division. Take it from an actor: Often times when a performance is bad you can instinctively feel it, and a bad performance can ruin a good film. The ASM films were trash for MANY reasons, very few of which had to do with the performances of the actors. They all did the best with what they were given (as any good actor does with any script), so the majority of gripes you can have with Garfield's version can be chalked up to the terrible writing and decision-making from Sony execs instead of his performance. His Peter Parker was written as a katamari of different "youth culture outcast" tropes, but his affectation, quips, sarcasm, and mannerisms while in the Spider-man suit are undeniably fantastic and page-accurate to the comic book. So, upon seeing that character on screen again, we all kinda went, "you know what? gotta admit he was great in those shitty films," because we saw what his version of the character could be when given good material to work with exemplified at the end of No Way Home when he is able to forgive himself for his biggest failure. Tobey Maguire will ALWAYS be to Spider-man as Christopher Reeve was to Superman. No question or argument here. So it's obvious why you have (and likely always will) loathe any subsequent portrayal of the character that isn't Maguire's. I get why you are defensive about it. If you want to shred the films, fine. As a whole they deserve it, but give credit where credit is due. Don't just add more fuel to the "outrage culture" fire; it's very unbecoming especially in a time when outrage culture is swallowing every internet platform like a cancer. We just want to see Garfield in a solo Spider-man film that doesn't suck. That's all.
I was a little bemused by Bob criticising Homecoming for not including Uncle Ben. There are tribespeople in the New Guinea highlands who have never met a white person, but who still know about Uncle Ben's death, and those of Batman's parents for that matter. Enough already.
Looking back on it, I feel that first movie could’ve worked with a rewrite. Specifically with Peter learning how to be a hero. Like you said it’s like the movie tries to turn him into Batman. But maybe that could’ve been a good arc for him? He starts out as this angry vigilante and then learns to be a better person. And arguably that’s in the movie as it is, but to me it feels like that just happens. It doesn’t feel earned since the whole Uncle Ben’s killer story just gets dropped. We don’t get that closure so the big bridge scene where we see him as more of a heroic figure, it feels disconnected. He doesn’t really learn his lesson he just stops being an asshole.
It seems like Bob likes the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man movies, and doesn't like the Tom Holland movies as much, mostly because he is old and grew up with the original ones. If you had seen them in different order, or were exposed to all of them now without knowledge of of who Sam Rami is, I don't think you'd put them on such an unassailable pedestal. And that's alright, I just have to remember you aren't objective about those movies. (And yeah, I liked the first two Rami movies a lot.) Not all songs in an album can be large, bold, overpowering chart toppers, but that doesn't mean the smaller, more contemplative songs are necessarily inferior. They are just different. Approach a series of movies the same way. Not every scene can be the climax, and not every movie has to put the world at risk. Homecoming had to be a reaction pic to a big MCU event, and a breather between large MCU beats. All while introducing a character they hoped to utilize for years, and have an expanding arc of it's own. It really sucks when all hero movies feel like they have turned the risk factor up to 11, and the stakes are so high it feels like the world could end. In many ways Homecoming is better than the Rami movies. The Peter Parker is certainly better realized, and has interesting challenges to overcome, while the actual plot seems like something approachable and relevant to a high school student. All while being entertaining. Homecoming is certainly more rewatchable. So, while I mostly like and agree with Bob's opinion on stuff, in some areas he has such an incredible bias it is tough to understand why he has chosen a particular hill to die on.
I picture myself in Bob's position and I would probably be 3, 4, 5 times more eager to just scream "I TOLD YOU SO" at every conceivable interval because it's so justified. Alas, there's very little to gain from stomping all over the people who were wrong all along versus how much we lost - thanks in part - to them being so wrong in the first place.
Hey Bob, could you extend the notes lengths a bit? Personally, I don’t read that fast and have to back track all the time to catch them. Otherwise, I’ve always enjoyed your work and keep at it.
5:20 And I thought she nailed it. 23:30 Did he mean Vulture? I thought he made his own flight suit from reverse-engineering other supertech he scavenged. It just so happened to work like Falcon's, but with a more realistic flight helmet. 35:17 And we got a better performance out of him with the writers and directors of "No Way Home".
The "just so happens" segment bugged me when you first released that video, and bugs me now. Comics do that stuff all the time. I mean, don't get me wrong, I refused to watch ASM on principle and haven't once regretted it...
@@timy9197 And the movie's writing is *worse* than the comics in this case. Spider-Man's various friends and enemies come from many different locations and walks of life in the comics, and ASM decided to just have literally everything revolve around Oscorp to pump up the stupid mystery around Peter's parents. (Another thing that was already pretty dumb in the comics but somehow worse in the movies. 🙄)
@@timy9197 Yeah, that's bullshit. Every medium has masterworks and tripe, the way member berries work however is that you only ever remember the masterworks and forget the tripe. Also agreed with the OP, Gwen being Connors's assistant after him having been Richard's partner isn't that weird, especially as them working for Osborn isn't even that crazy seeing as Oscorp is a billion dollar pharmaceutical conglomerate in this continuity. One assumes that they are out head hunting the best scientific minds that money can buy.
20:30 I've long thought the best way to do a Superman story is to make it a Lois Lane story. And maybe a Lex Luthor story too. And maybe maybe (definitely) a Jimmy Olsen story. You wanna go for Superman as Moses/Jesus figure? Fine. How do the people of Metropolis feel ABOUT the god-figure in their midst? How does it challenge their preconceptions of the world, humanity, even religion? Supes is still there, interacting with them, but he's too powerful, too busy, and too important to be around for any one person for very long, even the people he likes most. Make a movie ABOUT Superman the figure, not Superman as a protagonist. It seemed that Zack Snyder had similar ideas to begin with, but went down a really dark path with it. Superman as all-powerful and righteous Rand-ian hero the world doesn't properly appreciate the greatness of? A plea for egotistical self-insertion and borderline nihilism. A story that asks "if Superman can be anything, and do anything for anyone, how does it feel to a regular person when he doesn't do/be what you want him to be"? THAT'S a story about man's relationship with God. That's a story about a human being feeling small and unimportant in a universe too big for them to understand, let alone control. Superman '78 used him to challenge Lois' very 1970s-appropriate cynicism, in one of that movie's best scenes. Start there.
The delusional people asking for TASM3 are thinking somehow Avi Arad wouldn't be involved 'cause', well, that's what they are. Delusional. It's the same people who want to see Andrew vs Venom, another garbage piece of shit Spider-Man movie series made by Arad.
Never really got Bob’s hate boner for these movies. Like he’s explained them at length, not just in this video, but I find the strengths far out way the flaws, even in the maligned and dismissed TASM 2. The first film has a really solid character arc, the second one is the most “Spider-Man feeling” of any of the live action films in style and tone, despite (but also in part because of) the sheer over abundance of subplots and goofiness, and Garfield and Stone are giving powerhouse performances in both.
There's not much to get here. Bob preferred Raimi's films and was royally pissed off how much Sony screwed him out his artistic vision. Ultimately leaving him with a bad taste in his mouth. Combined that with the fact the "Amazing" films simply don't match up to the Raimi ones, regardless of how much more they match in tone with the comics. They're still studio-safe produced padlum that were banked on their own designs for the character. And I'm sorry, but retreading trodden ground with killing Gwen Stacey off again will not really win you many points given how often that death has been... done to death at this point. Whatever strengths the movie has don't matter when in the end you're reminded they sacrificed one set of Spider-Man films for another purely to push their own little cinematic universe. And they were planning to do it for a while to boot. And while I might agree that The Amazing movies did feel more like Spider-Man in places, it doesn't matter when the rest of it is a mess narrative wise and character wise. It also really doesn't matter how much chemistry Stone and Garfield have when they kill her off and that dynamic no longers exists as a result. Maybe you just need to accept that you and other fans are the niche here when it comes to support for, frankly, fairly average at best movies on the whole. And if you can't do that, at least empathize with the fact Bob and others feel just as strongly about Raimi getting screwed by Sony as you do Garfield getting screwed over by them too and that ultimately colors everything.
I also remember your review of "The Social Network," that predicted the absolute train-wreck of the ASM franchise by describing Andrew Garfield (who had a role in the Facebook biopic) as, and I quote: "...Whose career is about to HIT A BRICK WALL." And boy howdy, did you prognosticate THAT whole disaster accurately. Despite the insistance of some people that ASM was awesome and Andrew Garfield was awesome as Peter Parker... some even going so far as to say they liked him in the role more than Tobey Maguire. "No Accounting For Taste," am I right?
I mean, is that true? Andrew Garfield seems to be doing pretty well for himself lately even outside of Spider-Man related stuff. People are praising his performance in that new Netflix musical that came out
As all over the place as the 90s cartoon was... they definitely got the Lizard/Doc Connors right.. both are much more nuanced and understandable from episode 1
This is so interesting Would love to see your take on the Spider-Man movie, it’s successful box-office run, and what you think this means for Sony’s strategy. Plus, what you think the Next into the Spider-verse movie?
I feel a lot of people don't want a continuation of the Amazing Spider-Man universe, they want a film where Andrew Gardfield and Ema Stone play _some version_ of Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy because their chemistry was the only interesting part of those movies. Watching _No Way Home,_ the characters from the Amazing universe felt of in a way the ones from the Raimi movies didn't. While Doc Ock's and the Green Goblin's gradiose speeches had a hammy quallity that was pretty in line with the timeless but sort of retro sensibility of the Raimi trilogy (and its contrast with the hip self-awarness of the MCU characters helped to build the feeling that those villains came from a different universe), Electro, the Lizard and even Garfield's Peter Parker felt like different people who happened to have the same backstories as the Marc Webb films. The Lizard is difficult to describe because I don't even remember him talking in the first film, so his goofiness here may be more or less in character, but Electro is a lot more cocky and boisterous now, while in the Webb film his only two modes where "menacingly quiet" and "unleashing rage". Garfield's Peter is more of an awkward goofball and eager to share his emotions earnestly even if it makes others a little unconfortable, very different from his original characterization as a jerk who made jokes attempting to pass himself as a cool dude... soo yeah, people don't like _The Amazing Spider-Man_ as much as they like Andrew Garfield's public persona and wish for an Spider-Man who relies more on his own hability to improvise estrategies and less on Tony Stark's magic gadgets
It took Bob's "Really That Good" for Spider-man for me to understand why he's such a powerful fanboy over that series, and even then, it's still weird to hear him talk about it like those movies have meaning to anybody but US Americans.
Are you seriously suggesting that nobody outside of the United States would find meaning in a movie about Spider-Man? One of the most widely-known pop cultural figures across the globe? THAT Spider-Man?
@@einootspork I could see the point if they're talking about the "post-9/11 pep talk" moments. Those indeed had no resonance whatsoever outside the US, and came across as cringe worthy, even back in 2002. However, the movies as a whole? Yeah, they are as beloved outside of the US as they are inside of the US, for the most part.
@@XanderVJ For me, while the actual direct link to 9/11 didn't land, the coming together of people in hard times and "crowd heroism" absolutely works even without the 9/11 connection.
@@XanderVJ Those are indeed the moments I'm talking about. As for the crowd heroism, I'm so used to the status quo of comic books, where civilians are best suited to running away from such things, that seeing a crowd throw rocks at the man with skeletonizing grenades made me roll my eyes. In recent years, with all the shootings down south in the USA, it's only gotten worse. You don't fight the man in the supersuit with rocks and tin cans, no matter how many of you there are. Basically, my point is this: I liked the original Spider-man movies and thought Tobey MaGuire made a great Peter Parker, but I don't hold them up as the golden standard of superhero movies, or of Spider-man, like Moviebob seems to.
Honestly I would be fine with Sony giving Andrew another shot with a third amazing movie, but I think it should ignore the other 2 amazing movies (for the most part), and should be some truly out there unique idea that is not likely do able in the mcu. My personal pick: Andrew Garfield's spider man does the CLONE SAGA!
@@einootspork you have a point. Though honestly if they can make "One More Day" into something great with "No Way Home" I honestly think it might work.
I kinda expected something new from this, ASM is still the problem it always was, but No Way Home gave the series the open emotional point for Garfield''s Spider-man to launch into a new killer-opening point only NWH could deliver... Hope restored
People might forget, but back when ASM 1&2 actually came out, I the reviews for both of them were pretty positive. When i went to see them, they were pretty awful and Bob was the only reviewer I could find who actually acknowledged how bad they were. ASM is the whole reason I started watching this channel in the first place.
For me it is one of the reasons why it took some time to add the channel to my subs. Bob really has a blind spot when it comes to the Raimi movies, being completely unable to accept any criticism of them, and this stance also informs his view on ASM. Thankfully it is so far the only blind spot he has...with the other movies he likes but I don't really, he is pretty good in explaining what he sees in them. But not in this case. He should simply learn to accept that some people connected with Garfield's version on one level or another.
12:38 No one's complaining about the Iron Man connections because it's too coincidental, but because it robs Spider-Man of much of what makes him distinct from the other heroes.
Bob, I think many people would love a Let’s Play of SMB3 You could talk about your love of the game and how your opinion has changed/not changed since you wrote your book
Spider-Man fights Harry Osborn in a clock tower and Gwen is hanging from a web strand. The rotating gears of the tower somehow cut the web even though it's supposed to be super strong and sticky (and I swear there's even a scissor sound effect) so she starts falling. Spidey tries to sling another web through some tumbling clock tower pieces to catch her and the camera zooms in close as the tip of the web forms a tiny hand. (Get it? He's reaching out to try and save her. 🙄) The camera zooms back out and the web catches Gwen in the instant that her head hits the floor below and I accidentally burst out laughing in the theater. Spidey then cries over her corpse and even though her head apparently fell directly to the ground and impacted at well beyond terminal velocity, there's no blood anywhere except a tiny little bit coming out of her nose. It was hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Honestly they work really good as a cameo Spider-Man, but as Standalone it was only okay at best if you approached it as a 'this is alternate universe Peter Parker.' But bad Spider-Man is still Spider-Man which is still better than a lot of movies
I actually don't think the ASM films were bad in a vacuum, just lesser than what came before and after as well as having a bad foundation that hurt its chances to be more than it was. There are moments where the performers almost save it...almost...
Funny enough, I'm pretty sure the ASM2 review and the second hand catharsis with how it broke you was what got me into your work. 🤔 It has been a long going on 8 years...
I laughed at how pathetically overdramatic that review was, Bob seriously expects people to believe that movie made him consider quitting his job LOL please.
18:11 Gotta admit, with everyone reappraising their view of Garfield's portrayal of Peter Parker and Spider-Man and realizing how close to the original comics character he was, it takes a certain level of balls to plant your feet and double down on your initial mid-2000's "not-my-Spider-Man"/"Skateboarding =too cool for me" based Twilight-bashing that everyone else has largely outgrown and/or forgotten about. "Are you Team Peter or Team Flash?" I-- what? Bob did you even rewatch the series for these 'from-the-future-with-hindsight' notes? There was no FlashxGwenxPeter love triangle bullshit at all. Gotta say Bob, I'm disappointed. Your work is usually a lot more nuanced and thought-out than this. I don't mind the angry fanboy rage in the old reviews & editorials as they're a product of their time, but that you seem to double down on these immature takes in your little post-it notes is unfortunate. Yes, this film series still reeks of studio mandates & has various problems, but the shallow "I hate this Peter cuz he's too hot so I can't imagine myself sucking Emma Stone's face" take is just immature.
One thing about Bob I've always disliked was when he doesn't like a movie for outside reasons other than the movie itself, and he acts like he's doing a fair analysis.
Andrew Garfield wasn't closed to the comics at all! Peter Parker was quiet humble outsider and a hero like no other, Andrew Garfield was show off, hipster, try hard edgelord wannabe bad boy for the ladies just like Edward Cullen and Christian Bale's Batman! That's what Moviebob was getting at in this review/rant. Instead of following the comics and being true to the spirit of Spider Man, they tried to rip Twilight, Batman Begins, The MCU, and many more.
Nice idea to incorporate the articles but unless your going to pay for really good software please read it or get someone else to read it.
Completely agreed. Maybe even make a gift for some higher tier to Patron read it? Or another TH-camr.
I muted and read myself, I’d rather bob read it
He does it AGAIN for almost another ten minutes about 33 minutes into it. Why on EARTH would anyone want to do this not just once, but (at least) twice?! 😵 I haven't finished it yet, maybe it happens a third time. 😏 So glad there's a thumbnail as you slide over the timeline so it's easy to tell where it ends. :P
18:02 funny because Edward Cullen is now actually a brooding edgy Batman reboot, it all comes full circle
Will say, I love this setup of taking a decade of coverage on a specific film/franchise, putting it all together, and then including what are essentially footer notes that contextualize it in the history of the time and now. It's bonkers how much of it is happening around the other big film industry decisions that are still effecting now like the Marvel universe & Dark Knight Rises, and how the Twilight trend was really rolling along in a way that we still kind of feel.
I think Bob is overanalyzing the films, not EVERY film with a teen romance that came out after Twilight was inspired by that movie.
I like the concept, but the robot reading voice manages to be both boring and annoying. It would be better with Bob doing the reading.
Toby is definitely the star because, to a generation, he IS Spider-Man. Like Reeves was to Superman.
"I wouldn't be surprised if that scene is that last scene if the movie"
Im floored hearing you predict it so accurately
I might be remembering this wrong, but wasn't the last scene of TASM 2 the rhino fight, not the dumb Sinister 6 tease?
@@benl2140 I think you might be right, but the sinister 6 thing was def in act 4
@@benl2140 Splitting hairs at this point. It wasn't THE LAST scene of the movie, but it was in more or less the Epilogue.
I do think The Lizard can work as a villain, but you have to show Conners’ struggle with his handicap. A “Day-in-the-Life” montage would do wonders here. You have to EARN his frustration before he does something so reckless. Remember, this guy already has a FAMILY. He has to have proper motivation to risk EVERYTHING in a world where he can have a prosthesis that works almost as well as a normal arm. Maybe his specific injury prevents him from getting a prosthesis.
I rewatched this myself the other day. The thing that really struck me was the editing. It is TERRIBLE. Think Webb’s scenes were probably two long and drawn out so Sony just chopped the hell out of it
Can we take a second to appreciate just how accurate your prediction of the amazing Spider-Man 2 was based off the initial trailer? That was incredibly impressive
If i remember correctly, in another video, he also predicted Gwen's death by the end of the movie, and why that would've a bad idea.
I remember when he predicted the first Venom movie, That was impressive.
In defense of everyone saying there needs to be a third Andrew Garfield movie, I think it has more to do with the actor pouring his heart and soul into this go around than he was given any ability to do in the previous two films. Same production team? Hell no, but Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man with a half decent writer and director? Yeah, that could be fun.
But seriously, TASM were terrible films and that must not be unacknowledged in this discussion.
Doesn't even need to pour his heart out, Garfield is just a really strong actor and him half-assing it is probably still better acting than most comic heroes acting.
Nobody wants the same people who made 1 and 2 to make Amazing Spiderman 3. They just want a new director and a new writer and bring Andrew Garfield back with Kevin Feige off in the corner overseeing everything and holding everyone's hand just to make sure nothing terribly awful happens
Nah they were damn good films and I will fully acknowledge them in the discussion.
As a long time tasm apologist, I can agree with that. Honestly, I think a lot of people got short changed.
@@jadedheartsz People say opinions can't be wrong and then you post that nonsense lol
They were bad. So bad, Sony basically lost control over Spider-Man because of it
Curious, Moviebob, why you didn’t just read your article yourself? The robot voice was awkward and tough to focus through.
Norman Osborn retroactively becoming one of the best MCU villains is something I'd love for Bob to touch on.
I think what people want is an actual Amazing Spider-Man Movie. Not "Contractual Obligation: The Movie" or "Sony's Spider-man Cinematic Universe Preview." Garfield had some good moments in No Way Home that you could easily build a character arc off.
There were also a few aspects in the Amazing Spider-Man Movies which were genuinely well done. The relationship between Peter and Gwen. Peter struggling with doing the right thing more than his counterparts. The swinging scenes. The portrayal of Flash (still the best Flash to date if you ask me). And at least I love the crane scene.
my mood in every moment he was in no way home was wonder at, when he's in good material like there, it's kinda magical how he just kind of works and has an energy all his own different than Tobey or Tom and that's worth exploring, I can definitely see why people want more now
Yeah but seeing how Sonys movies that weren’t into the spiderverse or basically done by marvel studios have been complete dumpster fires I just see them messing it up again
Content good as ever, but those digital readouts are a massive mis-step.
Yeah, I would have preferred to have Bob, or hell, just a _person,_ read out the written review, rather than the robot voice from those Reddit post TikToks
Yeah, for some reason, my brain is literally just not translating this "text-to-voice" as actual words with ideas.
Glad to see you are still posting these
I hope 2022 is a great year for you
And 2022 is the year that The Game Overthinker returns
I'm still hoping for a 'Lost Girls of Gaming' part 2...
Hasn't the world suffered enough recently
I love MovieBob's work, but no. No one wants The Game Overthinker, especially not now that there are thousands of other people who make TH-cam videos about games, and many are better at it than Bob Chipman even has a hope of being.
It would be nice to get a proper voice-over instead of the text-to-speech bits since they are hard to listen to for extended periods of time...
I was trying to find his review of Amazing Spiderman 2 after rewatching it a few weeks ago and was wondering where it went. Thanks Bob!
I don't think many people are actually asking for more Amazing Spiderman, nor even the specific Spiderman that Garfield played, as they want Garfield getting a chance to play a Spiderman that's in a decent film. I notice that when people do say they want more of that Spiderman when you ask what they mean they always clarify that they want a better version of it, or a better script, or better director - essentially, whatever one thing they attribute the failure of the film to given human tendencies to blame a failure on one thing. It's unrealistic since the problems with those films are from the executive decisions up and bled into direction, script, and edit so it will take binning the entire two films to work. A new and highly-comparable Spiderman that happens to also be Garfield could be fine, but at that point why even shackle it to AMS?
No, no. Ever since No Way Home (which I love for the record), people have been trying to will into existence that ASM2 was good actually and that they should revive that series.
And Bob buying up his content from his former employer to relaunch it with Google Translate is STILL less cynical ad-spinning than anything Soney did with The Amazing Spider-man.
I'm sorry, but this TTS is awful. I'd much rather have the video missing the articles, or have notes saying "links to these can be found in the description" than sit through this.
Re-reading old Escapist "Intermission" Columns would actually be pretty cool, for future reference.
Edit: Even singing a parody of the 60's Spider-Man theme risks a copyright strike? Sounds very... TH-cam. :/
Can I just say it was incredibly grating to listen to a digitized version of that first article.
It's pretty clear from the context of this video that it's a long-term retrospective I don't understand the purpose of digitizing it instead of just recording it yourself.
I'm obviously here because I'm a fan of yours and like to listen to you talk.
Also that ding noise is way too loud. Whether I have headphones in or I'm listening while I'm driving in the car those dings are always obnoxiously loud.
Gonna be honest the text to speach reading of your written reviews sucks, either read them or don't include them. Good episode otherwise.
Comparing this Peter Parker to Edward Cullen? Fuck, you nailed everything wrong with this depiction of the character in that brief section perfectly XD You obviously aren't the only one who made the Twilight comparison, but you sure did the best job articulating it XD
I've seen less ads stuffed into a regular block of television
In his early appearances in the comics, the Lizard actually could control reptiles, and he tried several world-domination schemes, one of which was to turn everyone into Lizard-people. There was even an episode of SMTAS focused on a sewer-dwelling society of Lizards who worshipped Curt Connors as a godly father figure.
Right. This is because in a serial comic-book, especially in "early Spider-Man" there wasn't like a sense of thematic heft you had to keep in tune with the character. That version of silly comic book jank would work in a film focusing on silly comic book jank.
That was cool to see, but please, if you do this again, actually read the columns. The text to speech thing was... not good. Hearing the articles read in a complete monotone with no concept of even the bold text you put in really hurts them.
"It doesn't want to have depth or consequences, it just wants to be a fun diversion."
NWH: "I'm gonna wreck this man's whole career."
It’s interesting revisiting what made the TASM movies and Garfield’s original portrayal had because NWH sort of stands that on its head.
Your Spider-Man too cool to be Peter Parker? Then put him on a team where he’s not the protagonists and make fun of him by pairing him with an older, wiser, Tobey McGuire and the Spider-Man who fought Thanos.
That part was hilarious. "I fought an alien, made of black goo." "I fought a big alien, but he was purple and had these magic rocks." "You guys fought aliens?" It was also funny to watch MCU Peter react to the other Peters not hearing of the Avengers before.
Hahahaha, I love it! They tried to "Turn Spiderman into Batman, and Peter Parker into Edward Cullen." Not they have completed the circle and turned Edward Cullen into Batman!
I'm honestly kinda floored that people are actually campaigning for ASM3 now. Especially when some of those people are like "yeah those first 2 movies sucked or were at best mediocre, but now they can get it right!". I can't help but feel like this is one of those situations where fandom is trying to do a retcon: convincing themselves that something generally disliked is now somehow good and deserving of a second chance.
I disliked these movies when they first came out, and I got so much crap for it, people said I was just mad that it's not Sam Rami and that I'm an old man.... Well they're right about both those things, but now a lot more people admit to not liking them either.
Plenty of people like me also admit to liking them.
It's crazy, right? I got flak way back when, and now fans of the series are getting flak. Can't we all just be happy in collective nerdness? As I get older I realize more n more, I really don't care if people agree with me or not, as long as we all respect each other
The thing is that if you watch them in a void, they aren't "bad", they are enjoyable. But what makes these movies (kind of) work, imo, is that they have such generic structure, that even if they have inconsistent characters, you can fill in the blank, because you've already watched so many movies like it. So, if you wanted a "more mature" version of Spiderman, you can make ASM franchize to be it. And probably forget that the movie only works because you already like spiderman, from someone else's work.
It is also relevant now the question of how and why these movies failed. Because "Dark Universe", "DCEU", etc; failed at doing the same thing: making a trailer and a presentation of future movies, instead of making a movie. We weren't used to this trend by ASM2, but we are now. So we can detect the problem more easily.
@@davidv4018 I'll defend Dark Universe on my goddamn death bed.
@@jadedheartsz Please don't. You shouldn't have to do that to yourself.
18:12 its good to see Moviebob big upping himself. He was on the money with this. Little did past us know that good if not one of the best Spider-man movies was still to come. And it would be animated and be about Miles. Funny ol world isn't
Those digital readouts made this a lot of work to get through. I mean, the content quality keeps me going, but if I was slightly less interested in the subject I would have bailed around the 8:00 mark. Perhaps thats visible on the viewing statistics?
How about reading it with a slight pitch-shifting or something to mark a difference, if the goal is to avoid it sounding like a current opinion. Or get someone else to read it, altough I'm not sure how well someone else would read your rythm.
EDIT; Or what about an slight "old-time-radio-announcer" effect, just enough to be different without being distracting?
And if it's more work to make the production with pictures and stuff, keep the scrolling text! Fine! I'll take it, just change the voice.
Personally, I'm not asking for more of the same. I'm asking for an Amazing Spider-Man with Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man. I'd like to see new writers pen a story focused on a college aged or older Spider-Man and I'm cool if it runs along side the currently Tom Holland movies as a non-MCU, actual Amazing Spider-Man.
29:55 Well...ok...the thing is, I want to see more of what Garfield is doing in NWH in a movie where the creative team is put together by the Feige and the people at Marvel. Instead what I'm sure we'll get is just Garfield fighting villains alongside Morphius and Venom or something bad like that.
Exactly. What we were intrigued about was Garfield demonstrating that he could be a good Spider-Man when not weighed down by a terrible script. Incidentally, I watched another TH-camr talking about the X-Men franchise th-cam.com/video/JapWzIV1XDw/w-d-xo.html , and he said not once but twice that 'casting is everything' (in the context of Hugh Jackman being cast as Wolverine). Garfield in ASM is just one counter-example.
A "Bob is angry" collection? You're spoiling us!
I would definitely prefer to hear you read your old columns. The robo-voice is distracting.
I don't think anyone wants more AMS movies, everyone I've seen talking about just want more Andrew Garfield AS Spiderman, IN movies. But every post I've seen along those lines have also said stuff like "just make sure he's got a good script! and a good director! Make sure the movies are GOOD, but just with HIM in them!"
That's the tone I've seen from everyone. And, as someone who never saw either AMS movie, because they looked really bad to me, I gotta say I DID enjoy his Peter Parker in No Way Home. And yeah, I would like to see other films with him in it. Do a reboot of his franchise, or whatever, don't really care. But it was fun seeing him be Parker in that film, and I wouldn't be against seeing more of it in a good film.
Ah yes, Amazing Mider-Span
@@einootspork lol, i didn't even notice that. Fuck it, I'm leaving it as is. Mider-Span is too amusing. 🤣
No, there's definitely a lot of batshit "these movies were great actually" nonsense from people who I can only assume were 12 when ASM came out and can't see it for what it is. I'm in for more Garfield as Spidey but these movies need to be buried in a lead vault forever.
@@Keldroc *shrugs* No comment personally. Never saw them, as they didn't look good to me from the trailers. But I did enjoy Andrew's performance, and think he'd be a fun Peter in a better set of films.
@@happyninja42 I hope at the most he’s the Spider-Man in Sonys venom verse and hopefully he can pull a good one and make it so those movies are worthwhile
I understand the intent behind it, but I have to agree with everyone else here saying the text-to-speech parts don't work. Either read them yourself or don't include text-based articles.
"That Somebody" is Avi Arad, otherwise known as the real supervillain of the Spidey movies
I remember when I saw amazing Spider-Man in theaters, when the movie was over there was an older couple with their grandson and the grandpa said " are you serious they're going to be making more of these "
Thank you! There's a reason Sony jumped ship and went to the MCU from TASM series after the duology in the first place.
Because of money. If the second movie did well, they wouldn’t have ran to Disney/Marvel. The quality of a movie is only an indirect influence in this case.
@@Kevo6492 I’d say the quality of a movie (especially in the context of a never ending franchise IP like spider man) has a direct influence on how much money it makes.
@@brettc6132 I mean it’s very subjective isn’t it? I don’t think Venom is a particularly good movie or quality film, and I think most people would say so, but it still made a lot of money, hence a sequel. It’s more so audience reaction in the form of ticket sales.
Sony aren't the best at managing some of their IP. Case in point Morbius had a teaser released in Jan 20. No Way Home was successfully filmed, marketed and released before the Leto C-tier Marvel movie is released.
I still think you are wrong about Homecoming. The stakes are minor, I grant that, but it deals with something no prior Spidey film did - an actually teenaged Peter where asking someone out to the dance was just as big a deal as fighting Vulture. That is where the film works so spectacularly and stands out from the others (that does not mean it is better though).
Also it has a memorable villain which neither TASM movies did
Unpopular opinion: I thought the machine read articles worked.
Waiting on "How Bob would fix: The Hobbit" :P
Interested compilation, Mr. Chipman.
Why didn't you record a voice over for the beginning instead of having Anonymous do it
At some point, you could go into Dune? I don't just mean the movie. There's the books, the David Lynch movie, the two miniseries and I think a comic series? And games?
Haven’t seen any of the Tom Holland Spidermen movies. My coworkers at Blockbuster are always asking me “When are you gonna see Spider-Man? Have you seen the first episode of Boba Fett?!?” Lol. How do I tell this kids I don’t give a shit about Disney? It feels like I’m gonna break their little hearts lol
Thank you for adding the music during the first 20 seconds of disclaimers, it makes the presentation much nicer
I haven't done my usual of liking the video, because, Bob: that text-to-speech you used is *awful*. It actively ruins the compilation for me, although I'm at least letting it play in the background and just hunting around the seek bar to watch the video portions so you get some of that YT Premium pittance. (The opinions themselves are fine. :P )
Something I really want and sadly won't ever get because DC is DC, is a Batman Arkham franchise version of Batman on the big screen. The dark camp of the Arkham games is the perfect version of Batman, and would be amazing to see in movie form. I think to a lesser extent the rest of the DC cinematic universe would work with that kind of aesthetic, but for Batman it works so much better than the gritty realism they'e always going for. Marvel is the more grounded of the two comic book universes, and even they didn't make the mistake of going for realistic.
29:57 Bob... people are not asking for more shit-tastically horrible Amazing Spider-man films...
Practically everyone is in agreement that ASM1&2 are soulless piles of garbage churned out by a studio who doesn't actually care about the property but only wanted to hold onto the rights to the character so they can keep their wallets nice and fat. That's not up for debate in ANY sense.
We're asking specifically for more Andrew Garfield as Spider-man, who did a damn good job in No Way Home by reminding people that he did a great job with the shitty material he was given in his solo movies. He managed to pull off being a great Spider-man while stuck in two horrible Spider-man films. Now, will we get a well-written ASM film with Sony still in control? Most likely not. But given that the MCU stepped in and managed to redeem the Garfield version of the character in the best possible way, which let's face it practically NOBODY anticipated, there is the *possibility* of seeing Garfield's Spider-man in a movie NOT designed to chortle every set of balls on Sony's film-making division.
Take it from an actor: Often times when a performance is bad you can instinctively feel it, and a bad performance can ruin a good film. The ASM films were trash for MANY reasons, very few of which had to do with the performances of the actors. They all did the best with what they were given (as any good actor does with any script), so the majority of gripes you can have with Garfield's version can be chalked up to the terrible writing and decision-making from Sony execs instead of his performance. His Peter Parker was written as a katamari of different "youth culture outcast" tropes, but his affectation, quips, sarcasm, and mannerisms while in the Spider-man suit are undeniably fantastic and page-accurate to the comic book.
So, upon seeing that character on screen again, we all kinda went, "you know what? gotta admit he was great in those shitty films," because we saw what his version of the character could be when given good material to work with exemplified at the end of No Way Home when he is able to forgive himself for his biggest failure.
Tobey Maguire will ALWAYS be to Spider-man as Christopher Reeve was to Superman. No question or argument here. So it's obvious why you have (and likely always will) loathe any subsequent portrayal of the character that isn't Maguire's. I get why you are defensive about it. If you want to shred the films, fine. As a whole they deserve it, but give credit where credit is due. Don't just add more fuel to the "outrage culture" fire; it's very unbecoming especially in a time when outrage culture is swallowing every internet platform like a cancer. We just want to see Garfield in a solo Spider-man film that doesn't suck. That's all.
I was a little bemused by Bob criticising Homecoming for not including Uncle Ben. There are tribespeople in the New Guinea highlands who have never met a white person, but who still know about Uncle Ben's death, and those of Batman's parents for that matter. Enough already.
Looking back on it, I feel that first movie could’ve worked with a rewrite. Specifically with Peter learning how to be a hero. Like you said it’s like the movie tries to turn him into Batman. But maybe that could’ve been a good arc for him? He starts out as this angry vigilante and then learns to be a better person. And arguably that’s in the movie as it is, but to me it feels like that just happens. It doesn’t feel earned since the whole Uncle Ben’s killer story just gets dropped. We don’t get that closure so the big bridge scene where we see him as more of a heroic figure, it feels disconnected. He doesn’t really learn his lesson he just stops being an asshole.
TL;DR Peter tries to be edgy broody Batman but then learns he needs to be Spider-Man
It seems like Bob likes the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man movies, and doesn't like the Tom Holland movies as much, mostly because he is old and grew up with the original ones. If you had seen them in different order, or were exposed to all of them now without knowledge of of who Sam Rami is, I don't think you'd put them on such an unassailable pedestal. And that's alright, I just have to remember you aren't objective about those movies. (And yeah, I liked the first two Rami movies a lot.)
Not all songs in an album can be large, bold, overpowering chart toppers, but that doesn't mean the smaller, more contemplative songs are necessarily inferior. They are just different. Approach a series of movies the same way. Not every scene can be the climax, and not every movie has to put the world at risk. Homecoming had to be a reaction pic to a big MCU event, and a breather between large MCU beats. All while introducing a character they hoped to utilize for years, and have an expanding arc of it's own. It really sucks when all hero movies feel like they have turned the risk factor up to 11, and the stakes are so high it feels like the world could end.
In many ways Homecoming is better than the Rami movies. The Peter Parker is certainly better realized, and has interesting challenges to overcome, while the actual plot seems like something approachable and relevant to a high school student. All while being entertaining. Homecoming is certainly more rewatchable.
So, while I mostly like and agree with Bob's opinion on stuff, in some areas he has such an incredible bias it is tough to understand why he has chosen a particular hill to die on.
I picture myself in Bob's position and I would probably be 3, 4, 5 times more eager to just scream "I TOLD YOU SO" at every conceivable interval because it's so justified.
Alas, there's very little to gain from stomping all over the people who were wrong all along versus how much we lost - thanks in part - to them being so wrong in the first place.
Hey Bob, could you extend the notes lengths a bit? Personally, I don’t read that fast and have to back track all the time to catch them. Otherwise, I’ve always enjoyed your work and keep at it.
If nothing else this video really put into perspective how long i’ve been following you and how I still love your work
5:20 And I thought she nailed it.
23:30 Did he mean Vulture? I thought he made his own flight suit from reverse-engineering other supertech he scavenged. It just so happened to work like Falcon's, but with a more realistic flight helmet.
35:17 And we got a better performance out of him with the writers and directors of "No Way Home".
I don't mind text to speech, I even like it sometimes, but
this tts sounds like from 2005
Does anyone know if Bob has an upcoming Really That Good video?
Okay, so what was the name omitted in 6:47?
The "just so happens" segment bugged me when you first released that video, and bugs me now. Comics do that stuff all the time.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I refused to watch ASM on principle and haven't once regretted it...
It’s almost like movies are held to a higher standard when it comes to writing
@@timy9197 And the movie's writing is *worse* than the comics in this case. Spider-Man's various friends and enemies come from many different locations and walks of life in the comics, and ASM decided to just have literally everything revolve around Oscorp to pump up the stupid mystery around Peter's parents. (Another thing that was already pretty dumb in the comics but somehow worse in the movies. 🙄)
@@timy9197 Yeah, that's bullshit. Every medium has masterworks and tripe, the way member berries work however is that you only ever remember the masterworks and forget the tripe.
Also agreed with the OP, Gwen being Connors's assistant after him having been Richard's partner isn't that weird, especially as them working for Osborn isn't even that crazy seeing as Oscorp is a billion dollar pharmaceutical conglomerate in this continuity. One assumes that they are out head hunting the best scientific minds that money can buy.
Calling TASM1 "cheap-looking" is just... Incomprehensible to me. Especially after most of the recent MCU movies...
you haven't seen Eternals, have you? it's the best-looking mcu film yet.
Nothing has looked as bad as the TASM1 Lizard.
That "In Bob We Trust" music is still, without doubt, the best introductory music for a TH-cam channel in the history of TH-cam channels
I’m on my break right now at work no I just skimmed through to see the memos of the future, I will come back and watch the rest though
Ok thanks for update
20:30 I've long thought the best way to do a Superman story is to make it a Lois Lane story. And maybe a Lex Luthor story too. And maybe maybe (definitely) a Jimmy Olsen story. You wanna go for Superman as Moses/Jesus figure? Fine. How do the people of Metropolis feel ABOUT the god-figure in their midst? How does it challenge their preconceptions of the world, humanity, even religion? Supes is still there, interacting with them, but he's too powerful, too busy, and too important to be around for any one person for very long, even the people he likes most.
Make a movie ABOUT Superman the figure, not Superman as a protagonist. It seemed that Zack Snyder had similar ideas to begin with, but went down a really dark path with it. Superman as all-powerful and righteous Rand-ian hero the world doesn't properly appreciate the greatness of? A plea for egotistical self-insertion and borderline nihilism. A story that asks "if Superman can be anything, and do anything for anyone, how does it feel to a regular person when he doesn't do/be what you want him to be"? THAT'S a story about man's relationship with God. That's a story about a human being feeling small and unimportant in a universe too big for them to understand, let alone control. Superman '78 used him to challenge Lois' very 1970s-appropriate cynicism, in one of that movie's best scenes. Start there.
Another unofficial Really that Bad
Am I the only one who watched Andrew Garfield in No Way Home and wondered if he was related to Ben Schwartz?
'LET'S DEW IT!'
The delusional people asking for TASM3 are thinking somehow Avi Arad wouldn't be involved 'cause', well, that's what they are. Delusional. It's the same people who want to see Andrew vs Venom, another garbage piece of shit Spider-Man movie series made by Arad.
It blows my mind that this material goes back over 10 years.
Definitely been waiting to see this. Well done on those predictions Bob
Never really got Bob’s hate boner for these movies. Like he’s explained them at length, not just in this video, but I find the strengths far out way the flaws, even in the maligned and dismissed TASM 2. The first film has a really solid character arc, the second one is the most “Spider-Man feeling” of any of the live action films in style and tone, despite (but also in part because of) the sheer over abundance of subplots and goofiness, and Garfield and Stone are giving powerhouse performances in both.
I think you just liked how bad they were because it was funny lolz.
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 no.
There's not much to get here. Bob preferred Raimi's films and was royally pissed off how much Sony screwed him out his artistic vision. Ultimately leaving him with a bad taste in his mouth. Combined that with the fact the "Amazing" films simply don't match up to the Raimi ones, regardless of how much more they match in tone with the comics. They're still studio-safe produced padlum that were banked on their own designs for the character. And I'm sorry, but retreading trodden ground with killing Gwen Stacey off again will not really win you many points given how often that death has been... done to death at this point.
Whatever strengths the movie has don't matter when in the end you're reminded they sacrificed one set of Spider-Man films for another purely to push their own little cinematic universe. And they were planning to do it for a while to boot. And while I might agree that The Amazing movies did feel more like Spider-Man in places, it doesn't matter when the rest of it is a mess narrative wise and character wise. It also really doesn't matter how much chemistry Stone and Garfield have when they kill her off and that dynamic no longers exists as a result.
Maybe you just need to accept that you and other fans are the niche here when it comes to support for, frankly, fairly average at best movies on the whole. And if you can't do that, at least empathize with the fact Bob and others feel just as strongly about Raimi getting screwed by Sony as you do Garfield getting screwed over by them too and that ultimately colors everything.
me neither, never understood his hate for the Expendables or Transformers movies either.
@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 quiet troll
I also remember your review of "The Social Network," that predicted the absolute train-wreck of the ASM franchise by describing Andrew Garfield (who had a role in the Facebook biopic) as, and I quote:
"...Whose career is about to HIT A BRICK WALL."
And boy howdy, did you prognosticate THAT whole disaster accurately. Despite the insistance of some people that ASM was awesome and Andrew Garfield was awesome as Peter Parker... some even going so far as to say they liked him in the role more than Tobey Maguire. "No Accounting For Taste," am I right?
I mean, is that true? Andrew Garfield seems to be doing pretty well for himself lately even outside of Spider-Man related stuff. People are praising his performance in that new Netflix musical that came out
@@einootspork Yeah, that's nice. He was still the "Soulless Trend-Chasing" version of Spidey that got one movie too many.
"Even the bad stuff" Someday twenty years from now it will just be some more of the "the bad stuff". Everyday is "Spi-day" :D
As all over the place as the 90s cartoon was... they definitely got the Lizard/Doc Connors right.. both are much more nuanced and understandable from episode 1
This is so interesting
Would love to see your take on the Spider-Man movie, it’s successful box-office run, and what you think this means for Sony’s strategy. Plus, what you think the Next into the Spider-verse movie?
I feel a lot of people don't want a continuation of the Amazing Spider-Man universe, they want a film where Andrew Gardfield and Ema Stone play _some version_ of Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy because their chemistry was the only interesting part of those movies. Watching _No Way Home,_ the characters from the Amazing universe felt of in a way the ones from the Raimi movies didn't. While Doc Ock's and the Green Goblin's gradiose speeches had a hammy quallity that was pretty in line with the timeless but sort of retro sensibility of the Raimi trilogy (and its contrast with the hip self-awarness of the MCU characters helped to build the feeling that those villains came from a different universe), Electro, the Lizard and even Garfield's Peter Parker felt like different people who happened to have the same backstories as the Marc Webb films. The Lizard is difficult to describe because I don't even remember him talking in the first film, so his goofiness here may be more or less in character, but Electro is a lot more cocky and boisterous now, while in the Webb film his only two modes where "menacingly quiet" and "unleashing rage". Garfield's Peter is more of an awkward goofball and eager to share his emotions earnestly even if it makes others a little unconfortable, very different from his original characterization as a jerk who made jokes attempting to pass himself as a cool dude... soo yeah, people don't like _The Amazing Spider-Man_ as much as they like Andrew Garfield's public persona and wish for an Spider-Man who relies more on his own hability to improvise estrategies and less on Tony Stark's magic gadgets
It took Bob's "Really That Good" for Spider-man for me to understand why he's such a powerful fanboy over that series, and even then, it's still weird to hear him talk about it like those movies have meaning to anybody but US Americans.
Are you seriously suggesting that nobody outside of the United States would find meaning in a movie about Spider-Man? One of the most widely-known pop cultural figures across the globe? THAT Spider-Man?
@@einootspork I could see the point if they're talking about the "post-9/11 pep talk" moments. Those indeed had no resonance whatsoever outside the US, and came across as cringe worthy, even back in 2002. However, the movies as a whole? Yeah, they are as beloved outside of the US as they are inside of the US, for the most part.
@@XanderVJ For me, while the actual direct link to 9/11 didn't land, the coming together of people in hard times and "crowd heroism" absolutely works even without the 9/11 connection.
@@XanderVJ Those are indeed the moments I'm talking about. As for the crowd heroism, I'm so used to the status quo of comic books, where civilians are best suited to running away from such things, that seeing a crowd throw rocks at the man with skeletonizing grenades made me roll my eyes. In recent years, with all the shootings down south in the USA, it's only gotten worse. You don't fight the man in the supersuit with rocks and tin cans, no matter how many of you there are.
Basically, my point is this: I liked the original Spider-man movies and thought Tobey MaGuire made a great Peter Parker, but I don't hold them up as the golden standard of superhero movies, or of Spider-man, like Moviebob seems to.
Honestly I would be fine with Sony giving Andrew another shot with a third amazing movie, but I think it should ignore the other 2 amazing movies (for the most part), and should be some truly out there unique idea that is not likely do able in the mcu. My personal pick: Andrew Garfield's spider man does the CLONE SAGA!
That sounds almost like you're trying to make a movie Bob would despise. I think it would be interesting, though.
@@einootspork you have a point. Though honestly if they can make "One More Day" into something great with "No Way Home" I honestly think it might work.
@@kratoselricsuzumiya8345 I'm just saying that Bob would hate it, since it combines two things he hates. I'm not saying it would be bad necessarily.
@@einootspork you are right.
Yeah, I can't sit through that much text to voice, or at least not with that particular voice.
Video starts 9:04
Opens up video:
Wow, Bob's voice sure has changed.
Ro-Bob
I kinda expected something new from this, ASM is still the problem it always was, but No Way Home gave the series the open emotional point for Garfield''s Spider-man to launch into a new killer-opening point only NWH could deliver... Hope restored
Garfield and Stone deserved better movies. I still think they would have been perfectly cast for a movie with a better script.
I think they were good
People might forget, but back when ASM 1&2 actually came out, I the reviews for both of them were pretty positive. When i went to see them, they were pretty awful and Bob was the only reviewer I could find who actually acknowledged how bad they were. ASM is the whole reason I started watching this channel in the first place.
For me it is one of the reasons why it took some time to add the channel to my subs. Bob really has a blind spot when it comes to the Raimi movies, being completely unable to accept any criticism of them, and this stance also informs his view on ASM. Thankfully it is so far the only blind spot he has...with the other movies he likes but I don't really, he is pretty good in explaining what he sees in them. But not in this case. He should simply learn to accept that some people connected with Garfield's version on one level or another.
♪He lied to me
He shot at me
He hates-a me
He's using me
Virginity
He's dead to me♪
12:38
No one's complaining about the Iron Man connections because it's too coincidental, but because it robs Spider-Man of much of what makes him distinct from the other heroes.
This is a new low for the channel Bob. You couldn't even be bothered to record new audio?
Bob,
I think many people would love a Let’s Play of SMB3
You could talk about your love of the game and how your opinion has changed/not changed since you wrote your book
I never saw ASMII, can some spoil me on what the hilarious gut-punch was Bob describes around 31:07?
Please? I really don't want to watch the movie.
I believe that's where Gwen Stacy falls off the building and face plants into the ground and is killed, Peter failed to save her.
Spider-Man fights Harry Osborn in a clock tower and Gwen is hanging from a web strand. The rotating gears of the tower somehow cut the web even though it's supposed to be super strong and sticky (and I swear there's even a scissor sound effect) so she starts falling.
Spidey tries to sling another web through some tumbling clock tower pieces to catch her and the camera zooms in close as the tip of the web forms a tiny hand. (Get it? He's reaching out to try and save her. 🙄)
The camera zooms back out and the web catches Gwen in the instant that her head hits the floor below and I accidentally burst out laughing in the theater. Spidey then cries over her corpse and even though her head apparently fell directly to the ground and impacted at well beyond terminal velocity, there's no blood anywhere except a tiny little bit coming out of her nose. It was hilarious for all the wrong reasons.
Gwen Stacy does the one thing she's put in movies to do pre-Spider-Verse and dies
Honestly they work really good as a cameo Spider-Man, but as Standalone it was only okay at best if you approached it as a 'this is alternate universe Peter Parker.' But bad Spider-Man is still Spider-Man which is still better than a lot of movies
I actually don't think the ASM films were bad in a vacuum, just lesser than what came before and after as well as having a bad foundation that hurt its chances to be more than it was. There are moments where the performers almost save it...almost...
Funny enough, I'm pretty sure the ASM2 review and the second hand catharsis with how it broke you was what got me into your work. 🤔
It has been a long going on 8 years...
I laughed at how pathetically overdramatic that review was, Bob seriously expects people to believe that movie made him consider quitting his job LOL please.
18:11 Gotta admit, with everyone reappraising their view of Garfield's portrayal of Peter Parker and Spider-Man and realizing how close to the original comics character he was, it takes a certain level of balls to plant your feet and double down on your initial mid-2000's "not-my-Spider-Man"/"Skateboarding =too cool for me" based Twilight-bashing that everyone else has largely outgrown and/or forgotten about.
"Are you Team Peter or Team Flash?" I-- what? Bob did you even rewatch the series for these 'from-the-future-with-hindsight' notes? There was no FlashxGwenxPeter love triangle bullshit at all.
Gotta say Bob, I'm disappointed. Your work is usually a lot more nuanced and thought-out than this. I don't mind the angry fanboy rage in the old reviews & editorials as they're a product of their time, but that you seem to double down on these immature takes in your little post-it notes is unfortunate. Yes, this film series still reeks of studio mandates & has various problems, but the shallow "I hate this Peter cuz he's too hot so I can't imagine myself sucking Emma Stone's face" take is just immature.
One thing about Bob I've always disliked was when he doesn't like a movie for outside reasons other than the movie itself, and he acts like he's doing a fair analysis.
Andrew Garfield wasn't closed to the comics at all! Peter Parker was quiet humble outsider and a hero like no other, Andrew Garfield was show off, hipster, try hard edgelord wannabe bad boy for the ladies just like Edward Cullen and Christian Bale's Batman! That's what Moviebob was getting at in this review/rant. Instead of following the comics and being true to the spirit of Spider Man, they tried to rip Twilight, Batman Begins, The MCU, and many more.
@@thesupervader400 Read the comics, dude...
@@blueworldcomics7908 I am and Andrew portrayal is nothing like Peter! Andrew Garfield is one of the most inaccurate portrayal of character in cinema!
@@thesupervader400 Kay
The auto reader is gross. Couldn’t you just narrate your own article?
I like hearing how things got terrible before starting to become not awful. I feel that.
Ok, but where’s the You’re Wrong About Spider-Man 3 video?
The description is hilarious because that sounds like an objective statement. I thought you didn't like those in film discussion.