GRRM has said that we will not see Asshai in the books, so I assume Dany does not have to go there. I do hope he will write a spin-off book about a character that goes/went to Asshai though..
On the topic of Targaryen magic. Maybe the reason only nobles could use magic in Valyria was because the magic was also passed through people's genes. That'd explain why only noble blood lines would have access to it. In which case we do see Targaryen magic. The magic which belongs to house Targaryen is 'clairvoyance', we hear about how Danny's ancestors saw a vision of destruction and knew to flee Valyria. However, in the current story we see Danny having a lot of prophetic dreams. Those dreams could be her inherited magic.
Only some have dreams. Most likely the magic was hoarded by the strongest dragon lords. The fruits of the magic were shared but not the exact methods. It would explain how Dragon stone was build. The fortress was built by Valyrian architects and sorcerers but the techniques kept secret.
My theory on why the Targaryens have no knowledge of magic is because the magical arts, dragon-steel and other valyrian techniques were kept secret within Valyria itself. In Qarth for example, people know of magic and the warlocks but the warlocks themselves keep the secrets within their own order. In Westeros everyone knows of wildfire and what it can do but only the pyromancers know the secret recipe of wildfire and they keep it to themselves within their own order and those that join the order are forbidden from sharing it. So I believe that there was an order of mages as well as order of smiths who kept their knowledge of magic and dragon-steel to themselves and even members from the noble families that joined their ranks and learns sorcery were forbidden from spreading the secrets outside the order. With the Targaryens being one of the lesser families they might not have had the authority to take spell books or to have any wizards within their own family to keep and pass down the knowledge. When they departed the rest of Valyria looked to them as fools or cowards so surely they were not about to give these disgraced ones any knowledge.
Let's not ignore the fact that House Targaryan produced imbeciles like Baelor the Blessed, who encouraged the destruction of books that were not Seven-Cult-approved. And the Maesters surely had great fun stealing and hoarding books on magic
I think the Dragons as we know them are result of combining Firewyrms and Wyverns. It's said that the Firewyrms existed in the Fourteen Flames long before Dragons, and how would the Valyrians know, unless they've been there and witnessed their creation? Valyrian dragons were the first to breathe fire, that's why their Empire was so powerful. There's a tale how the Moon (Wyverns) touched the Sun (Firewyrms) and the Dragons were born.
I don't quite remember the details, but one thing that occurred to me is that Danaerys losing her unborn child and the hatching of the dragons was nearly timed. Could perhaps the "sacrifice" of her unborn son have payed the 'blood price' of the ancient ritual? In fact, perhaps the spell that awakened the dragons did not start at the pyre at all, but rather at Drogo's tent. Perhaps Rhaego's life was the necessary ingredient to bind the dragons to Daenaerys...
@@maxten maybe not just mirri maz duur. maybe this ritual demanded more than one person and there was 3. Khal Drogo, the man she loved. Mirri Maz Duur her enemy. And her unborn son, her own blood. maybe all these 3 combined were what binded the dragons to her. who knows?
Jack Alope Achava que era o único BR que curtia o conteúdo do cara hahaha. Tentei mostrar pros amigos mas além de ter que curtir um lore pesado há a barreira do inglês né? Hahaha que legal!
Que ótimo encontrar outros brasileiros por aqui! Esse canal é realmente incrível! / It's great to meet other Brazilians here! This channel is really amazing
Satana Mogila to a certain extent, but to westerners nothing really matches Rome as far as its influence and presence in our culture, legal systems, language, architecture etc.
Perhaps it isn't dragons that bring magic, but magic that brings dragons. We've seen individuals such as Melisandre work their magic at least a continent away from any dragons and surely the Undying had been practicing their warlock's ways long before Dany and her dragons stumbled into Qarth. So perhaps magic is more like the tides, it ebbs and flows. Hell for all we know magic could even be more powerful in different locations not just different ages (my mind instantly thinks of the shadowlands and beyond the wall) not just the eras.
Or the presence of dragons in the world makes it easier to focus magic spells. Even without Dany's dragons, the Alchemist guild, for example, was able to make wildfire though after the Dragon's hatched the spells required to create wildfire suddenly worked a lot better than before.
@@benagaran20 That also seems accurate. It may also be worth noting the the White Walkers started appearing further and further south around the same time. There may actually be a sort of link in all of that, either that or maybe the dragons are sort of like...magical repositories.
@@Darkstar1484 I think they are more like magnets. The more dragons and other magical creatures there are around the easier it is to work magic cause they attract the energy needed to work spells. And even though spells can be cast without dragons around, it's easier when they are. Cause without any of these "magnets" you would first require a ritual to attract the magical energies. And the wall acts like a same pole magnet. Rejecting the magical energies emanating from the true North.
My theory on why the Targaryens have no knowledge of magic is because the magical arts, dragon-steel and other valyrian techniques were kept secret within Valyria itself. In Qarth for example, people know of magic and the warlocks but the warlocks themselves keep any magic within their own order. In Westeros everyone knows of wildfire and what it can do but only the pyromancers know the secret recipe of wildfire and they keep it to themselves within their own order and those that join the order are forbidden from sharing it. So I believe that there was an order of mages as well as order of smiths who kept their knowledge of magic and dragon-steel to themselves and even members from the noble families that joined their ranks and learns sorcery were forbidden from spreading the secrets outside the order. With the Targaryens being one of the lesser families they might not have had the authority to take spell books or to have any wizards within their own family to keep and pass down the knowledge. When they departed the rest of Valyria looked to them as fools or cowards so surely they were not about to give these disgraced ones any knowledge.
If you do recall that witch in Daenerys's chapter did perform blood magic before her dragons hatched. Perhaps it is somewhat dependant of dragons but stronger with their presence.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the Faceless Men bragged about bringing Valyria its demise? I always thought it was hinted that they had infiltrated Valyria several hundred years after Braavos was founded (Braavos being founded by former Valyrian slaves hiding from the dragon lords, and the first assassin of the FM being a slave himself) and had gone around doing some shit like triggering all the volcanoes at the same time. It would explain why the land is said to be scorched, the sky always red, and that nothing grows there anymore if the ash has never dissipated since... Don't know, been a while since I've picked up the books though. But I remember one of them telling Arya something like "uh yeah well we destroyed Valyria, what you gonna do now huh?".
Arya hears the story of the first one from the Kindly man. SHe complains he should have killed the masters not the slave. The Kindly man tells Arya in book 4 that they brought the gift to the slave masters in their turn, but that's a story best told to "no one." It's no bragging, and very open to interpretation, but yeah, that's how I understood it too. Something like the mages of Valyria kept the Doom at bay, and when enough were killed.... meltdown, BOOM!
Since reading AWoIaF, I've wondered if the slaves of Vaylyria didn't somehow trigger the volcanoes to all blow at once. The Valyerian mines were in and around the 14 Flames, and the various peoples who were enslaved to work them likely had their own magic - enhanced by dragon proximity. So if the Faceless Men took out the master magicians, and the slaves triggered a domino eruption, there would be no one to stop the cataclysm. I'm sure there were plenty willing to die to stop the continuing expansion of Valyeria.
@@carlyblack42 Makes you wonder if the Faceless Men started out as a covert slave rebellion. It would actually explain a lot about their philosophy and powers.
Omg! As soon as I got the notification I came over here. You have been missed! I really believe this! I also think that many of the Houses have forgot what their words truly mean. I would love to see a video between you and Talking Thrones and Grey Area.
Magic in a game of Ice and fire is some how tied to the seasons, it vanes with long summers and rises with strong winters, so magic Comes from the shadows and it grows stronger the longer the shadows grow.
My theory on why the Targaryens have no knowledge of magic is because the magical arts, dragon-steel and other valyrian techniques were kept secret within Valyria itself. In Qarth for example, people know of magic and the warlocks but the warlocks themselves keep the secrets within their own order. In Westeros everyone knows of wildfire and what it can do but only the pyromancers know the secret recipe of wildfire and they keep it to themselves within their own order and those that join the order are forbidden from sharing it. So I believe that there was an order of mages as well as order of smiths who kept their knowledge of magic and dragon-steel to themselves and even members from the noble families that joined their ranks and learns sorcery were forbidden from spreading the secrets outside the order. With the Targaryens being one of the lesser families they might not have had the authority to take spell books or to have any wizards within their own family to keep and pass down the knowledge. When they departed the rest of Valyria looked to them as fools or cowards so surely they were not about to give these disgraced ones any knowledge.
@@vladtheimpaler9577This is not contrary to the theory of fluctuating mana Levels, there is also the line from the Masterpyromancers that certain recipes seem to work better then they used to. I don't think the Tagaryens as nobles ever possesed the knowlege on how to forge Valyrian steel, no Valyrian noble would have, they had Smith for that. But there is one Free City where they still know how to reforge Valyrian steel and maybe still know how to make it, but they can't make it anymore. The recipes could have stop working because of a lack of magic or because a lack volcanic or draconic fire essential to the process. In Fire and Blood is mentioned that Visenja was taking to the dark arts later in here life, so the knowlege of magic is also still more or less pressent but due to weak levels of magic the practise is dying out.
It makes sense that only a priest class knew this magic. Thus when they died in the doom the knowledge of Valeyrian magic would have died. Even if the Valeyrians decided not to practice magic..that doesn't mean they would forget HOW to practice magic.
My theory on why the Targaryens have no knowledge of magic is because the magical arts, dragon-steel and other valyrian techniques were kept secret within Valyria itself. In Qarth for example, people know of magic and the warlocks but the warlocks themselves keep the secrets within their own order. In Westeros everyone knows of wildfire and what it can do but only the pyromancers know the secret recipe of wildfire and they keep it to themselves within their own order and those that join the order are forbidden from sharing it. So I believe that there was an order of mages as well as order of smiths who kept their knowledge of magic and dragon-steel to themselves and even members from the noble families that joined their ranks and learns sorcery were forbidden from spreading the secrets outside the order. With the Targaryens being one of the lesser families they might not have had the authority to take spell books or to have any wizards within their own family to keep and pass down the knowledge. When they departed the rest of Valyria looked to them as fools or cowards so surely they were not about to give these disgraced ones any knowledge.
You have really nice content man! Thank you for sharing this ! You have a nice musicality within your voice for narrating, tone, rythm, melodies.. I always wanted to read GOT and Dune but i never really delved into it, and somehow your videos incited me to read them as a change from the usual (tho still amazing) novels of old and new. Cheers
I don't think any of the books tell us where/when/how Illyrio Mopatis acquired the three dragon eggs that he gave to Daenerys? Maybe they are the same eggs that were involved in the tragedy at Summerhall. Maybe whatever blood magic ritual was performed started an incubation period for the eggs, and when they were given to Dany, the presence of Targaryen blood near these eggs caused them to hatch. I'm sure I'm not the first one to have thought of this.. just an idea I had...
FYI it is strongly hinted in Fire and Blood that they are the same eggs that were stolen and traded to the Sea Lord of Braavos. That Illyrio got a hold of them implies Braavosi collusion, but it is not concerned.
Almost three years after this video publication, one year and half after the catastrophic finale. Here I am, rewatching these videos. Quinn, you help making the unpalatable palatable again, and thanks to you the magic of the story is restored.
the Targaryens were a minor household in the Valyrian Freehold, so most probably they were never part of the inner circle of mages. Also Fire and Blood Magic seems to be empowered by the proximity of magical creature, artifacts and places of power. Melisandre herself admits that being at the barrier made her spells stronger. Bloodraven tied himself to the strongest heart tree to empower his greensight and prolong his life. It wouldn't surprise me if magic in general would be empowered or weakened by the proximity of places and various type of creatures.
I don’t believe Euron went to Valyria. Aerea Targaryen went on Balerion and she came back with weird snakes with arms and faces inside her body that made her so sick she ended up dying. Even Balerion had scars that he never had before
@ 06:05 you said The Doom happened 100 years after Daenys the Dreamer's prophecy. According to a-wiki-of-ice -and-fire The Doom happened 12 after her prophecy. I guess house Targaryen were just chillin' for 100 years until Aegon decided to finally do something with his family's dragons.
god, it would be amazing if you did audiobooks. I would pay like, a crazy amount to hear your awesome reading of the whole thing, and I'm sure I'm not the only one
@IdeasOfIceAndFire, your Ice and Fire and GoT videos are seriously the greatest things on TH-cam. A girl is impressed. Thank you for gracing us with your channel! ❄ & 🔥 ⚔ 🐲
I believe there are dragons somewhere on sothoryos or ulthos or some other undiscovered lands, like in the northern shores of sothoryos there are dragon like creatures maybe those are some kind of "land dragons" and there is a kind of those that live near volcanos aka dragons who breath fire
my theory is either A - their own magic and ways destroyed themselves by either doing too great of magical works, or misusing the magic, OR B - whatever god or source the magic came from originally, given the constant allusions to eldridge beings in the series, maybe the asshai people got their power from some ancient force or being, and after sometime either the being left (unlikely) was destroyed by another being or force (highly unlikely) or brought the doom itself upon valyria, we know the ancients taught the valyrians their magic but we don't know if part of that magic included worship and constant contribution to some ancient...thing, if so, it's possible that after a few ages, when the ancients disapeared, maybe the valyrians either didn't at all or strayed from the worship of the magics source believing they could keep the power like an item, instead of constantly paying, just steal it, then the thing hammered down it's infinite and horrible retribution, we know that elder gods and ancient beings in lovecraftian horror can constantly torment and ruin entire realms for aeons if not stopped by sometyhing so maybe that's also why the doom still hangs over valyria, the thing will keep punishing until someone begins retribution again, i mean, that's just my theory though, doens't look like all of this will be touched on in the song of ice and fire though, maybe someday assuming he's still around, martin will write something like "song of the gods" or something and kinda give a little more detail
If proximity to dragons increases ones magic why do you believe the red women mentioned her magic is stronger at the wall? Do you believe the ice dragon in the wall theory? (In the books at least)
the hobbit was written before lord of the rings, so was most of the silmarillian. they were all semi concurrent really, but tolkien did it to give his world life. he published the lord of the rings first, because it was the product of the other things he was writing, it was the best because it was the most refined. martin doesn't exactly do that, he does it in his head, but for every page he writes for asoiaf he probably has 4 or 5 pages already written in his head to inform him how it should go. not an easy way to live. he also writes on an old laptop using 3.5" floppies.
I really loved this video, Valyria is one of the most fascinating places in ASOIAF to me. The only thing I didn't like is this made me even more impatient for TWoW 😂
winter seems to always come at times of great magic. while dragons seem to be at their peak during times when magic is powerful, it seems that correlation is not causation in this instance. dragons are part of the use of magic, is it possible that the heavy desire and attempted use of magic causes not only for it to work but for winters to happen. a world with a perpetual summer, and magic draws on that energy and plunges it into winter.
My theory: - the Valyrians were Shepard’s so they were given dragons to nurture, not to conquer - they forgot their ancient duty and began their conquest - then the doom was their punishment for forgetting - they were meant to spread magic, not use it
Makes quite a lot of sense. But what sort of power would wait for thousands of years until Valyria gorged in blood for at least 5 milleniums? Valyria didn't die out in a short notice, you know.
Great video as usual! Just curious, do you agree with the theory that the Children or the Faceless men had a hand in causing the doom to come to Valyria? And what do you think happened to Aurion, his dragon and his army?
Here's what I think. Valaryans are cross breeds of some proto species and Essosians (mayhaps Andals), and White Walkers are a cross breed of First Men and the proto species. White Walkers are similar to Targaryens in the books.
This is great, just like all of your videos. How did you make the dragon in the mist scene ? And, I wonder why the Targaryen’s were able to hatch dragon eggs well after the fall of Valeria but couldn’t at a later date
Where the fuck does this Gerorge RR martin guy get all this shit. His mind is like the most valuable thing on the planet i hope he just keeps writing until the day he dies we need him.
I thought dragons existed next to Dinosaurs and ultra-ancient crestures like Naga and The Giant Kraken, but while the latter began to die out, dragon's persisted, and are somehow magikal, the Dragon-Lords somehow learning this deep, ancient, forgotten knowledge...
I and other people I’m sure would pay a lot of money to hear u narrate the books because the tone you set in these videos makes the scenes feel creepy and ominous
It was a magical nuke. Men and Dragon who go there don't return because of radiation. My theory is: some not so bright Valyrian noble house decided to make a magical nuke and use it on another house.
+IdeasOfIceAndFire Can you talk about the direwolves? Where they come from? How was the mother dead? Where is the father? Are they sent by Bloodraven? Do they have a connection to the children of the forest? Can you delve deep into the connection between the wolves and Starks?
Bill Berndtson How do they forge their valeryan steel chain? I guess they simply reforge old valeryan steel. We know some smiths can do that. It would be impossible for thwm to create new valeryan steel though.
great audio. When contrasted with some of your older vids it's like a slap in the face. I'm not telling you how to run your channel. But seems like thats an opportunity for edits/upgrades.
I would say the lore points to Dragons feeding on magic, not a source. As Magic faded from Westeros, the dragons become smaller, weaker, and finally died out. In the Doom, Dragons were noted as become sick and fading away. And the Doom itself appears to be more of an origin like the Wheel of Time series, where a legendary nation ruled by a noble magic cast made one too many strides toward MORE power, and destroyed the very source of their magic in trying to harness it. With the references to blood and fire, it also seems likely this disaster would take the form of lava and volcanoes, the blood of the earth which burns all it touches. It would also be the one thing Valyrian magic would not be able to impact at all. As to the return of magic, we see this occur long before any dragons even start back towards Westeros, and it obviously existed before Dragons. It was the return of the Others and the Children, using magics and pulling forth that power, that saw something more like a small scattering of magic start spreading there. Ultimately, the Dragons are elementals made flesh I think. This would explain why a Dragon created by the Other would breath Ice instead of fire as well. As a final note then, I would deny that the magic of Valyria was lost, but rather finally burst the constraints of those nobles, and continues to bleed away to this day, causing the oceans to smoke and burn.
What is Funny is that before tha Andal invasion of Westeros. Andals had practiced slavery and only actually stopped when they were driven out or frightened out by the Valerian Freehold defeat at Norvos...!
As darkness gains power, the light rises to meet it. The quote is wrong, but I feel it. The whitewalkers were introduced and were shown to be gainig power before the dragons came about. Even Bran and his greensight came about before the dragons
In the real world nobility commissioned masons and artisans and I can’t think of a reason for that not to be so in this universe. I imagine the builders of dragonstone simply returned to Valyria when the job was done and subsequently died and the knowledge with them.
I'd love to see a spin-off in which crusades around the world set off to distant lands to hunt down and subjugate all paranormal species in the world of ASOIAF. Imagine 50k men walking through ashai, the lands beyond the wall and ulthos.
Thank you for this video I luv all the Targaryan history there's a picture of a man woth a cloak with a woman I'd say his wife an a young child looks like a boy , the man looks Alot like Jon Snow AKA Aegon Targaryan an funny the woman looks abit like Cersie I hope that one of the Prequels will be about the Targaryans , history , how they came to be with the Valyrians an Targaryans an then there was the Blackfires , an of course Dragons thank you for this great video I've had this video saved an thought I'd watch it again so very interesting ❤🕍👑🐲🔥🛡🗡
Could the relation between dragons and magic highly exaggerated by most ? We assume magic disappear when the dragons died in large numbers, but that seems a bit odd in an author who admits to be deep down a sci-fi-ish writer. Besides, the dragons eggs change from stone to life after a strange comet appear, isn't the comet that appears after the dragons. Have you considered the possibility that dragons may not be essential for magic but just an effect of "magical levels" raising in atmosphere ? Perhaps the firing blade in the sky is not the source of magic either. Astronomic events are often cyclic and thanks to that our ancestors in real world learned to register the passage of time with some precision. Suppose the comet by chance more or less overlap with the natural cyclic of raise of magic. Assuming that is a natural property of how this world works that magic goes up and down from time to time, like the tides of a river and the Ice Ages. When magic is going up warlocks and shadow binders, can do more things. Magic creatures grow in strength and power. Dragons are born and grow healthier. When magic is going down everything that depends on magical power becomes harder. Magic never disappear completely but one must adapt to survive with very little of it, like the plants growing in deserts survive with little water. Whit or without dragons magic will raise for a time. It concentrates in magic beings, such as dragons, and also in magical structures like the Wall. But even if no magic user or magic animal existed still the potential for magic would be present. Like humidity in the air can exist with or without living species to make use of it. Whit or without dragons the magic tide will grow, reach its higher level, and go down again. Well informed people will know when the tide is likely to change, and cunning people will find out how to use the the opportunities created by the changes in magic potential. Some mages may even find ways to stock magic for the times when it will be low (a big icy wall, maybe). However, no one can really stop the natural movement of cosmos. Sorry, that comment sounded shorter inside my head.
O could imagine that there are certain structures or locations that canalised magic in planetos. This places get destroyed one after another. (Like the towers in the elder scrolls) one was in Ashsai, one was in the 14 flames and maybe one of eye of gods and in the years of always winter
the targaryens wernt nobles in valyria the were a lesser house of the 30 dragonrider houses. I think some of the sorcerors might have belonged to noble houses also.
It's sooo confusing. Dragons were everywhere once, but only the Valyrians utilised them in war and in craft. Ok, all good, I get that. But the Valyrians _may_ have _created_ dragons with their dark genetic experiments, potentially concocted with wyverns and fire wyrms to make them into the dragons we think of in the current story and the Valyrian Freehold. WHERE DID DRAGONS COME FROM
My problem with the Doom is that Valyria was a massive empire and you mean to tell me every Dragon Lord was in Valyria during the Doom it just doesn't seem right.
Valyria was not an ''empire'' per say, but a freehold. Dragonlords and nobles are not mere governors but the very body of Valyrian might. And they kept within the Freehold
Wouldn't it be somewhat humorous if we eventually find out that the Valyrian Freehold was destroyed/collapsed because they degraded the very environment on which they depended, a.k.a. environmental collapse.....literally, the cause of every single civilization's collapse through out history
lee Roberts It’s not true of the majority of civilizations, actually. The only one I can think of is ancient Sumer, but that was more a case of rivers diverting over thousands of years as opposed to active and intensive degradation.
The Prophecy of Daenys was actually 12 years before the doom. Not 100 as stated in the video.
when is dune book two coming out i really enjoyed your first two thanks
Daniel Webb it will be out this month
IdeasOfIceAndFire, do you think Daenerys needs to go to Asshai in order to learn the lost Valyrian magic? If so what do you think she will learn?
GRRM has said that we will not see Asshai in the books, so I assume Dany does not have to go there.
I do hope he will write a spin-off book about a character that goes/went to Asshai though..
IdeasOfIceAndFire what do you think exist in valyiria ? because most of the people who travel to there don t return.
On the topic of Targaryen magic. Maybe the reason only nobles could use magic in Valyria was because the magic was also passed through people's genes. That'd explain why only noble blood lines would have access to it. In which case we do see Targaryen magic. The magic which belongs to house Targaryen is 'clairvoyance', we hear about how Danny's ancestors saw a vision of destruction and knew to flee Valyria. However, in the current story we see Danny having a lot of prophetic dreams. Those dreams could be her inherited magic.
Only some have dreams. Most likely the magic was hoarded by the strongest dragon lords. The fruits of the magic were shared but not the exact methods. It would explain how Dragon stone was build. The fortress was built by Valyrian architects and sorcerers but the techniques kept secret.
Yeah thats something grrm as a scifi writer would love.
My theory on why the Targaryens have no knowledge of magic is because the magical arts, dragon-steel and other valyrian techniques were kept secret within Valyria itself. In Qarth for example, people know of magic and the warlocks but the warlocks themselves keep the secrets within their own order. In Westeros everyone knows of wildfire and what it can do but only the pyromancers know the secret recipe of wildfire and they keep it to themselves within their own order and those that join the order are forbidden from sharing it.
So I believe that there was an order of mages as well as order of smiths who kept their knowledge of magic and dragon-steel to themselves and even members from the noble families that joined their ranks and learns sorcery were forbidden from spreading the secrets outside the order. With the Targaryens being one of the lesser families they might not have had the authority to take spell books or to have any wizards within their own family to keep and pass down the knowledge. When they departed the rest of Valyria looked to them as fools or cowards so surely they were not about to give these disgraced ones any knowledge.
Vlad the Impaler good point
They knew some magic, that's how they built Dragonstone
@@gatekeeping8528 dragon stone was built already before they left
Let's not ignore the fact that House Targaryan produced imbeciles like Baelor the Blessed, who encouraged the destruction of books that were not Seven-Cult-approved. And the Maesters surely had great fun stealing and hoarding books on magic
@@theboy1625 They could have comissioned it, Dragonstone was built while Valyria was still around.
Melisandre's magic was apparently stronger at the Wall than it ever was in Asshai despite the fact that there are no dragons North.
I think the Dragons as we know them are result of combining Firewyrms and Wyverns. It's said that the Firewyrms existed in the Fourteen Flames long before Dragons, and how would the Valyrians know, unless they've been there and witnessed their creation? Valyrian dragons were the first to breathe fire, that's why their Empire was so powerful. There's a tale how the Moon (Wyverns) touched the Sun (Firewyrms) and the Dragons were born.
I'm more of the opinion that the people of Ashai breed the 1st dragons and began blood magic.
It is known.
@@thomasirizarry4401 wow
Maybe the Empire of the dawn were dragonlords? @@johnathanwalker8395
I wish we could have a spin off book situated in Old Valyria.
Absolutely.
But not with Benioff and Weiss.
Here here!
Yup maybe following a dragon lord during the peak of their civilization
I don't quite remember the details, but one thing that occurred to me is that Danaerys losing her unborn child and the hatching of the dragons was nearly timed. Could perhaps the "sacrifice" of her unborn son have payed the 'blood price' of the ancient ritual? In fact, perhaps the spell that awakened the dragons did not start at the pyre at all, but rather at Drogo's tent. Perhaps Rhaego's life was the necessary ingredient to bind the dragons to Daenaerys...
That's pretty much how it went down
but the baby was dead already. it had to be mirri maz dur's burning alive.
@@maxten maybe not just mirri maz duur. maybe this ritual demanded more than one person and there was 3. Khal Drogo, the man she loved. Mirri Maz Duur her enemy. And her unborn son, her own blood. maybe all these 3 combined were what binded the dragons to her. who knows?
@@almierae4914 makes sense to me
@@almierae4914 three sacrifices buy three dragons
You have no idea how anxiously I wait for your ASOIAF videos. Thanks so much! I want you to know you have fans as far as here in Brazil :)
Jack Alope Achava que era o único BR que curtia o conteúdo do cara hahaha. Tentei mostrar pros amigos mas além de ter que curtir um lore pesado há a barreira do inglês né? Hahaha que legal!
Jack Alope Tamo num nível nerd high as fuck for Brazilian standards my friend hahaha
brazil rule
Que ótimo encontrar outros brasileiros por aqui! Esse canal é realmente incrível! / It's great to meet other Brazilians here! This channel is really amazing
Pena não ter legenda em português 😥😥😥😥😥
Valariya is very much like roman empire gone but still maintains a presence in the world by virtue of its culture and architecture
This can be said about any empire
Satana Mogila to a certain extent, but to westerners nothing really matches Rome as far as its influence and presence in our culture, legal systems, language, architecture etc.
@@satanamogila9251 I hear you but the Roman empire lasted for several centuries which makes it one of the most influential empires in our history
There's a lot of Atlantis on it too
Perhaps it isn't dragons that bring magic, but magic that brings dragons. We've seen individuals such as Melisandre work their magic at least a continent away from any dragons and surely the Undying had been practicing their warlock's ways long before Dany and her dragons stumbled into Qarth. So perhaps magic is more like the tides, it ebbs and flows. Hell for all we know magic could even be more powerful in different locations not just different ages (my mind instantly thinks of the shadowlands and beyond the wall) not just the eras.
Or the presence of dragons in the world makes it easier to focus magic spells. Even without Dany's dragons, the Alchemist guild, for example, was able to make wildfire though after the Dragon's hatched the spells required to create wildfire suddenly worked a lot better than before.
@@benagaran20 That also seems accurate. It may also be worth noting the the White Walkers started appearing further and further south around the same time. There may actually be a sort of link in all of that, either that or maybe the dragons are sort of like...magical repositories.
@@Darkstar1484 I think they are more like magnets. The more dragons and other magical creatures there are around the easier it is to work magic cause they attract the energy needed to work spells. And even though spells can be cast without dragons around, it's easier when they are. Cause without any of these "magnets" you would first require a ritual to attract the magical energies.
And the wall acts like a same pole magnet. Rejecting the magical energies emanating from the true North.
My theory on why the Targaryens have no knowledge of magic is because the magical arts, dragon-steel and other valyrian techniques were kept secret within Valyria itself. In Qarth for example, people know of magic and the warlocks but the warlocks themselves keep any magic within their own order. In Westeros everyone knows of wildfire and what it can do but only the pyromancers know the secret recipe of wildfire and they keep it to themselves within their own order and those that join the order are forbidden from sharing it.
So I believe that there was an order of mages as well as order of smiths who kept their knowledge of magic and dragon-steel to themselves and even members from the noble families that joined their ranks and learns sorcery were forbidden from spreading the secrets outside the order. With the Targaryens being one of the lesser families they might not have had the authority to take spell books or to have any wizards within their own family to keep and pass down the knowledge. When they departed the rest of Valyria looked to them as fools or cowards so surely they were not about to give these disgraced ones any knowledge.
If you do recall that witch in Daenerys's chapter did perform blood magic before her dragons hatched. Perhaps it is somewhat dependant of dragons but stronger with their presence.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the Faceless Men bragged about bringing Valyria its demise? I always thought it was hinted that they had infiltrated Valyria several hundred years after Braavos was founded (Braavos being founded by former Valyrian slaves hiding from the dragon lords, and the first assassin of the FM being a slave himself) and had gone around doing some shit like triggering all the volcanoes at the same time. It would explain why the land is said to be scorched, the sky always red, and that nothing grows there anymore if the ash has never dissipated since...
Don't know, been a while since I've picked up the books though. But I remember one of them telling Arya something like "uh yeah well we destroyed Valyria, what you gonna do now huh?".
Arya hears the story of the first one from the Kindly man. SHe complains he should have killed the masters not the slave. The Kindly man tells Arya in book 4 that they brought the gift to the slave masters in their turn, but that's a story best told to "no one." It's no bragging, and very open to interpretation, but yeah, that's how I understood it too. Something like the mages of Valyria kept the Doom at bay, and when enough were killed.... meltdown, BOOM!
Since reading AWoIaF, I've wondered if the slaves of Vaylyria didn't somehow trigger the volcanoes to all blow at once. The Valyerian mines were in and around the 14 Flames, and the various peoples who were enslaved to work them likely had their own magic - enhanced by dragon proximity. So if the Faceless Men took out the master magicians, and the slaves triggered a domino eruption, there would be no one to stop the cataclysm. I'm sure there were plenty willing to die to stop the continuing expansion of Valyeria.
@@carlyblack42 Makes you wonder if the Faceless Men started out as a covert slave rebellion. It would actually explain a lot about their philosophy and powers.
Or maybe they were bluffing.
Louis Haumont The channel indeepgeek have an interesting theory video, about what caused the doom of Valyria.
Omg! As soon as I got the notification I came over here. You have been missed! I really believe this! I also think that many of the Houses have forgot what their words truly mean. I would love to see a video between you and Talking Thrones and Grey Area.
Your narrative tone a pace is just perfect
Magic in a game of Ice and fire is some how tied to the seasons, it vanes with long summers and rises with strong winters, so magic Comes from the shadows and it grows stronger the longer the shadows grow.
My theory on why the Targaryens have no knowledge of magic is because the magical arts, dragon-steel and other valyrian techniques were kept secret within Valyria itself. In Qarth for example, people know of magic and the warlocks but the warlocks themselves keep the secrets within their own order. In Westeros everyone knows of wildfire and what it can do but only the pyromancers know the secret recipe of wildfire and they keep it to themselves within their own order and those that join the order are forbidden from sharing it.
So I believe that there was an order of mages as well as order of smiths who kept their knowledge of magic and dragon-steel to themselves and even members from the noble families that joined their ranks and learns sorcery were forbidden from spreading the secrets outside the order. With the Targaryens being one of the lesser families they might not have had the authority to take spell books or to have any wizards within their own family to keep and pass down the knowledge. When they departed the rest of Valyria looked to them as fools or cowards so surely they were not about to give these disgraced ones any knowledge.
@@vladtheimpaler9577This is not contrary to the theory of fluctuating mana Levels, there is also the line from the Masterpyromancers that certain recipes seem to work better then they used to.
I don't think the Tagaryens as nobles ever possesed the knowlege on how to forge Valyrian steel, no Valyrian noble would have, they had Smith for that. But there is one Free City where they still know how to reforge Valyrian steel and maybe still know how to make it, but they can't make it anymore. The recipes could have stop working because of a lack of magic or because a lack volcanic or draconic fire essential to the process.
In Fire and Blood is mentioned that Visenja was taking to the dark arts later in here life, so the knowlege of magic is also still more or less pressent but due to weak levels of magic the practise is dying out.
There’s different types of magic caster magic from you holder magic from objects imbued with magic and curses
It makes sense that only a priest class knew this magic. Thus when they died in the doom the knowledge of Valeyrian magic would have died. Even if the Valeyrians decided not to practice magic..that doesn't mean they would forget HOW to practice magic.
My theory on why the Targaryens have no knowledge of magic is because the magical arts, dragon-steel and other valyrian techniques were kept secret within Valyria itself. In Qarth for example, people know of magic and the warlocks but the warlocks themselves keep the secrets within their own order. In Westeros everyone knows of wildfire and what it can do but only the pyromancers know the secret recipe of wildfire and they keep it to themselves within their own order and those that join the order are forbidden from sharing it.
So I believe that there was an order of mages as well as order of smiths who kept their knowledge of magic and dragon-steel to themselves and even members from the noble families that joined their ranks and learns sorcery were forbidden from spreading the secrets outside the order. With the Targaryens being one of the lesser families they might not have had the authority to take spell books or to have any wizards within their own family to keep and pass down the knowledge. When they departed the rest of Valyria looked to them as fools or cowards so surely they were not about to give these disgraced ones any knowledge.
You have really nice content man! Thank you for sharing this ! You have a nice musicality within your voice for narrating, tone, rythm, melodies.. I always wanted to read GOT and Dune but i never really delved into it, and somehow your videos incited me to read them as a change from the usual (tho still amazing) novels of old and new. Cheers
I don't think any of the books tell us where/when/how Illyrio Mopatis acquired the three dragon eggs that he gave to Daenerys? Maybe they are the same eggs that were involved in the tragedy at Summerhall. Maybe whatever blood magic ritual was performed started an incubation period for the eggs, and when they were given to Dany, the presence of Targaryen blood near these eggs caused them to hatch. I'm sure I'm not the first one to have thought of this.. just an idea I had...
FYI it is strongly hinted in Fire and Blood that they are the same eggs that were stolen and traded to the Sea Lord of Braavos. That Illyrio got a hold of them implies Braavosi collusion, but it is not concerned.
Joshua Lowe it’s called blood magic which is what Daenerys used to hatch her eggs.
I forgot what was written in the books but in the show Illyrio said that those were from Shadowlands beyond Asshai.
welcome back Quinn...u was missed
thanks
I love the style of this. I really hope you continue going down this route.
I’m so impressed by your videos! It’s because of your videos that I spent the past few months reading the series. So thank you! Can’t wait for more 🤗
I really do enjoy your Voice Over, well done, haunting and well researched. Learn so much. Keep it up!
Almost three years after this video publication, one year and half after the catastrophic finale. Here I am, rewatching these videos. Quinn, you help making the unpalatable palatable again, and thanks to you the magic of the story is restored.
the Targaryens were a minor household in the Valyrian Freehold, so most probably they were never part of the inner circle of mages.
Also Fire and Blood Magic seems to be empowered by the proximity of magical creature, artifacts and places of power.
Melisandre herself admits that being at the barrier made her spells stronger.
Bloodraven tied himself to the strongest heart tree to empower his greensight and prolong his life.
It wouldn't surprise me if magic in general would be empowered or weakened by the proximity of places and various type of creatures.
I don’t believe Euron went to Valyria. Aerea Targaryen went on Balerion and she came back with weird snakes with arms and faces inside her body that made her so sick she ended up dying. Even Balerion had scars that he never had before
@jabron.destoroyahwe don't know where they went
@jabron.destoroyah are they aye, she didn't have "diseases" she had fucking fireworms writhing through her body
@jabron.destoroyahit's actually heavily implied they went to valyria and that balerion took over to basically fly home
She was infected with Valyrian fire wyrms. So..no.
@@krosis4406It wasn't implied ,it was outright stated
I hadn't had a clue how huge this world was, there are way more high fantasy concepts than I could imagine
Happy to see you back!! No one else does videos like you!
@ 06:05 you said The Doom happened 100 years after Daenys the Dreamer's prophecy. According to a-wiki-of-ice -and-fire The Doom happened 12 after her prophecy. I guess house Targaryen were just chillin' for 100 years until Aegon decided to finally do something with his family's dragons.
Rostam1369 that's what I thought also. I've seen other videos saying that's what happened
I wish you could get the permission to orate the books I’d pay for that
So didn't Dany use Valyrian, blood magic and slave sacrifice with Mary Mazdure. To survive the funeral pyre and birth her dragons.
*mirri maz duur
That, and perhaps the comet above had some impact. But she did it all unknowingly
She was already predisposed to being immune to fire before that iirc.
@@summanus4437 In the show she's immune to fire, but not in the books. It was a one time thing in the books
your videos keep getting better! great job!
god, it would be amazing if you did audiobooks. I would pay like, a crazy amount to hear your awesome reading of the whole thing, and I'm sure I'm not the only one
@IdeasOfIceAndFire, your Ice and Fire and GoT videos are seriously the greatest things on TH-cam. A girl is impressed. Thank you for gracing us with your channel! ❄ & 🔥 ⚔ 🐲
Great presentation. Great gap fillers for the books and show. I love the Dune vids so please keep them coming.
This is wonderful. Now are these your personal theories or is this from the books? Love it.
Great job! Always quality videos from you.
Finally! I thought you were just going to keep doing live streams...
Love the spooky low voice. I think the Dragons still live in the mountains of Asshai. Bran saw them stirring as he fell.
I believe there are dragons somewhere on sothoryos or ulthos or some other undiscovered lands, like in the northern shores of sothoryos there are dragon like creatures maybe those are some kind of "land dragons" and there is a kind of those that live near volcanos aka dragons who breath fire
my theory is either A - their own magic and ways destroyed themselves by either doing too great of magical works, or misusing the magic, OR B - whatever god or source the magic came from originally, given the constant allusions to eldridge beings in the series, maybe the asshai people got their power from some ancient force or being, and after sometime either the being left (unlikely) was destroyed by another being or force (highly unlikely) or brought the doom itself upon valyria, we know the ancients taught the valyrians their magic but we don't know if part of that magic included worship and constant contribution to some ancient...thing, if so, it's possible that after a few ages, when the ancients disapeared, maybe the valyrians either didn't at all or strayed from the worship of the magics source believing they could keep the power like an item, instead of constantly paying, just steal it, then the thing hammered down it's infinite and horrible retribution, we know that elder gods and ancient beings in lovecraftian horror can constantly torment and ruin entire realms for aeons if not stopped by sometyhing so maybe that's also why the doom still hangs over valyria, the thing will keep punishing until someone begins retribution again, i mean, that's just my theory though, doens't look like all of this will be touched on in the song of ice and fire though, maybe someday assuming he's still around, martin will write something like "song of the gods" or something and kinda give a little more detail
If proximity to dragons increases ones magic why do you believe the red women mentioned her magic is stronger at the wall? Do you believe the ice dragon in the wall theory? (In the books at least)
Kyle Chagnon I believe magic is always stronger near a source of power, like dragons, weirwood trees or the wall.
Valyria is so spooky.
Valyrian Magic was lost because a certain author can't get over his pathological procrastination.
Joe Jessup whats procrastination mean
Dominic Briggs I'll tell you later...
@MsRadical
Lol you win the Internet :D :D
the hobbit was written before lord of the rings, so was most of the silmarillian. they were all semi concurrent really, but tolkien did it to give his world life. he published the lord of the rings first, because it was the product of the other things he was writing, it was the best because it was the most refined. martin doesn't exactly do that, he does it in his head, but for every page he writes for asoiaf he probably has 4 or 5 pages already written in his head to inform him how it should go. not an easy way to live. he also writes on an old laptop using 3.5" floppies.
@@kght222 no he published hobbit first.
I really loved this video, Valyria is one of the most fascinating places in ASOIAF to me. The only thing I didn't like is this made me even more impatient for TWoW 😂
winter seems to always come at times of great magic. while dragons seem to be at their peak during times when magic is powerful, it seems that correlation is not causation in this instance. dragons are part of the use of magic, is it possible that the heavy desire and attempted use of magic causes not only for it to work but for winters to happen. a world with a perpetual summer, and magic draws on that energy and plunges it into winter.
My theory:
- the Valyrians were Shepard’s so they were given dragons to nurture, not to conquer
- they forgot their ancient duty and began their conquest
- then the doom was their punishment for forgetting
- they were meant to spread magic, not use it
Makes quite a lot of sense. But what sort of power would wait for thousands of years until Valyria gorged in blood for at least 5 milleniums? Valyria didn't die out in a short notice, you know.
That makes a lot sense
*You were meant to destroy the sith not join them*
Great video as usual! Just curious, do you agree with the theory that the Children or the Faceless men had a hand in causing the doom to come to Valyria? And what do you think happened to Aurion, his dragon and his army?
Amazing as always!
I had just assumed Valyrian magic was intuitive and its strength was based on proximity to the waxing and waning of the Red Comet.
I love your narration voice!
Here's what I think. Valaryans are cross breeds of some proto species and Essosians (mayhaps Andals), and White Walkers are a cross breed of First Men and the proto species. White Walkers are similar to Targaryens in the books.
Thanks ioiaf Great way to start the day!
Is this all your own artwork because it's the best out of all the got channels
This is great, just like all of your videos. How did you make the dragon in the mist scene ? And, I wonder why the Targaryen’s were able to hatch dragon eggs well after the fall of Valeria but couldn’t at a later date
Where the fuck does this Gerorge RR martin guy get all this shit. His mind is like the most valuable thing on the planet i hope he just keeps writing until the day he dies we need him.
I remember when you were making videos in your closet you've come a long way congratulations still a fan!
Perhaps the Shadow People & the Rulers of the Empire of the Dawn are connected.
What is the font that you use on the tumbnail? Is really beautiful.
You need to do one theory about valerian steel and it’s secrets
OMG how much I miss the books. I mean I read them all but I freaking crave for The Winds of Winter
Dude you are awesome!
I thought dragons existed next to Dinosaurs and ultra-ancient crestures like Naga and The Giant Kraken, but while the latter began to die out, dragon's persisted, and are somehow magikal, the Dragon-Lords somehow learning this deep, ancient, forgotten knowledge...
Where do you get all these images from?
Moral of the story: if you abuse youre power, youre going to loose it, and a lot more
Increible video... just increible ..
I and other people I’m sure would pay a lot of money to hear u narrate the books because the tone you set in these videos makes the scenes feel creepy and ominous
What is the difference between a shai and the shadow lands?
hey man, have you thought about or would you be down to read and do some videos on the Witcher books.....(possibly my favourite books)
I get Pompeii vibes from the day of the Doom
It was a magical nuke. Men and Dragon who go there don't return because of radiation. My theory is: some not so bright Valyrian noble house decided to make a magical nuke and use it on another house.
+IdeasOfIceAndFire Can you talk about the direwolves? Where they come from? How was the mother dead? Where is the father? Are they sent by Bloodraven? Do they have a connection to the children of the forest? Can you delve deep into the connection between the wolves and Starks?
So, are magic and the changing of seasons intertwined somehow?
Aren't that Tuor and Idril with their son Earendil at 3:47?
How do the maesters of the Citadel who study it forge their links for the higher mysteries?
Bill Berndtson How do they forge their valeryan steel chain? I guess they simply reforge old valeryan steel. We know some smiths can do that. It would be impossible for thwm to create new valeryan steel though.
great audio. When contrasted with some of your older vids it's like a slap in the face. I'm not telling you how to run your channel. But seems like thats an opportunity for edits/upgrades.
Gosh that ending music is like from a PC fantasy game from the late 90s.
Maybe so much magic use is like a magnet for a meteor, like the one that appeared when dani's dragons were born.
According to the legend of the Faceless men the first faceless man brought about the doom of Valyria. It is strongly suggested in it.
I would say the lore points to Dragons feeding on magic, not a source. As Magic faded from Westeros, the dragons become smaller, weaker, and finally died out. In the Doom, Dragons were noted as become sick and fading away. And the Doom itself appears to be more of an origin like the Wheel of Time series, where a legendary nation ruled by a noble magic cast made one too many strides toward MORE power, and destroyed the very source of their magic in trying to harness it. With the references to blood and fire, it also seems likely this disaster would take the form of lava and volcanoes, the blood of the earth which burns all it touches. It would also be the one thing Valyrian magic would not be able to impact at all. As to the return of magic, we see this occur long before any dragons even start back towards Westeros, and it obviously existed before Dragons. It was the return of the Others and the Children, using magics and pulling forth that power, that saw something more like a small scattering of magic start spreading there. Ultimately, the Dragons are elementals made flesh I think. This would explain why a Dragon created by the Other would breath Ice instead of fire as well. As a final note then, I would deny that the magic of Valyria was lost, but rather finally burst the constraints of those nobles, and continues to bleed away to this day, causing the oceans to smoke and burn.
What is Funny is that before tha Andal invasion of Westeros. Andals had practiced slavery and only actually stopped when they were driven out or frightened out by the Valerian Freehold defeat at Norvos...!
Am confused i thought the 14 Flames are still only the produced lava that Destroyed the Empire,are they gone as well?
That was great!
As darkness gains power, the light rises to meet it.
The quote is wrong, but I feel it.
The whitewalkers were introduced and were shown to be gainig power before the dragons came about. Even Bran and his greensight came about before the dragons
A thought born of your talking about the blood needed to power valyrian magic. Could the doom have been retribution for an unpaid blood debt?
Do you think we will see another Doom in the books?
Because a lot of the mysterious histories seem to be repeating themselves.
WELL PLAYED!!!!
In the real world nobility commissioned masons and artisans and I can’t think of a reason for that not to be so in this universe. I imagine the builders of dragonstone simply returned to Valyria when the job was done and subsequently died and the knowledge with them.
I'd love to see a spin-off in which crusades around the world set off to distant lands to hunt down and subjugate all paranormal species in the world of ASOIAF. Imagine 50k men walking through ashai, the lands beyond the wall and ulthos.
Thank you for this video I luv all the Targaryan history there's a picture of a man woth a cloak with a woman I'd say his wife an a young child looks like a boy , the man looks Alot like Jon Snow AKA Aegon Targaryan an funny the woman looks abit like Cersie
I hope that one of the Prequels will be about the Targaryans , history , how they came to be with the Valyrians an Targaryans an then there was the Blackfires , an of course Dragons thank you for this great video I've had this video saved an thought I'd watch it again so very interesting ❤🕍👑🐲🔥🛡🗡
Thanks, Q.
OK, I dont think that Quinn wanted it to end this way.
Good point about the slave sacrifices.
Could the relation between dragons and magic highly exaggerated by most ? We assume magic disappear when the dragons died in large numbers, but that seems a bit odd in an author who admits to be deep down a sci-fi-ish writer. Besides, the dragons eggs change from stone to life after a strange comet appear, isn't the comet that appears after the dragons. Have you considered the possibility that dragons may not be essential for magic but just an effect of "magical levels" raising in atmosphere ?
Perhaps the firing blade in the sky is not the source of magic either. Astronomic events are often cyclic and thanks to that our ancestors in real world learned to register the passage of time with some precision. Suppose the comet by chance more or less overlap with the natural cyclic of raise of magic. Assuming that is a natural property of how this world works that magic goes up and down from time to time, like the tides of a river and the Ice Ages.
When magic is going up warlocks and shadow binders, can do more things. Magic creatures grow in strength and power. Dragons are born and grow healthier. When magic is going down everything that depends on magical power becomes harder. Magic never disappear completely but one must adapt to survive with very little of it, like the plants growing in deserts survive with little water.
Whit or without dragons magic will raise for a time. It concentrates in magic beings, such as dragons, and also in magical structures like the Wall. But even if no magic user or magic animal existed still the potential for magic would be present. Like humidity in the air can exist with or without living species to make use of it.
Whit or without dragons the magic tide will grow, reach its higher level, and go down again.
Well informed people will know when the tide is likely to change, and cunning people will find out how to use the the opportunities created by the changes in magic potential. Some mages may even find ways to stock magic for the times when it will be low (a big icy wall, maybe). However, no one can really stop the natural movement of cosmos.
Sorry, that comment sounded shorter inside my head.
O could imagine that there are certain structures or locations that canalised magic in planetos. This places get destroyed one after another. (Like the towers in the elder scrolls) one was in Ashsai, one was in the 14 flames and maybe one of eye of gods and in the years of always winter
A) it was never their magic, it was of the people of Asshai. 2) it still lives on in the blood magic of Valerian steel and the red priests
the targaryens wernt nobles in valyria the were a lesser house of the 30 dragonrider houses. I think some of the sorcerors might have belonged to noble houses also.
A lesser house is still noble. Little finger is a lord too
It's sooo confusing. Dragons were everywhere once, but only the Valyrians utilised them in war and in craft. Ok, all good, I get that. But the Valyrians _may_ have _created_ dragons with their dark genetic experiments, potentially concocted with wyverns and fire wyrms to make them into the dragons we think of in the current story and the Valyrian Freehold.
WHERE DID DRAGONS COME FROM
They discovered dragon eggs at 14 flames. They didn't create dragons whatsoever
Mmmh I can see an analogy with Howard's Valusia...
What could the Valyrians possibly have had that the dragon tamers from the East gave them their secrets for?
Platinum-haired, purple-eyed, Sports Illustrated model looking people? 🤷🏻♂️
My problem with the Doom is that Valyria was a massive empire and you mean to tell me every Dragon Lord was in Valyria during the Doom it just doesn't seem right.
there were only 40 dragonlord families in the valyrian freehold. Look up the eruption of mt. vesuvius. It killed tens of thousands.
Valyria was not an ''empire'' per say, but a freehold. Dragonlords and nobles are not mere governors but the very body of Valyrian might. And they kept within the Freehold
Wouldn't it be somewhat humorous if we eventually find out that the Valyrian Freehold was destroyed/collapsed because they degraded the very environment on which they depended, a.k.a. environmental collapse.....literally, the cause of every single civilization's collapse through out history
Well, they were mining the Fourteen Flames, which were what caused the Doom by erupting.
The probably did what the Dwarves of Moria did - dug too greedily abd too deep looking for whatever
lee Roberts It’s not true of the majority of civilizations, actually. The only one I can think of is ancient Sumer, but that was more a case of rivers diverting over thousands of years as opposed to active and intensive degradation.