Simon Jordan ARGUES Why Man City Will NEVER Achieve the Same Status as Man United or Liverpool! 😳
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2023
- TalkSPORT's Simon Jordan and Danny Murphy explain why they believe Manchester City will never have the same iconic status as Manchester United or Liverpool.
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A great man once said never in my lifetime...now its every time...
Honestly im fine with liverpool and united having more fans than us. I'm just enjoying winning things at the minute. If liverpool and united are globally bigger than us then great, well done
How can Liam and Noel Gallagher *both* be wrong...Could never happen
They’re the best constructed football team on the planet at this moment in time!
Great outlook on it! Just enjoy the ride! From a United Fan.
@@michaelwilkinson9425from a bitter United fan 😂
Well last night 😂😂😂😂😂😂 20,000 empty seats, utterly pathetic support. Emptyhad
@@thailandbust5932 what’s bitter about what I’ve said?… grow up a bit lad eh!
Nothing is all rosey forever!
Jim is playing devil's advocate of course but Simon and Danny are right: it isn't about City's ability or what they are winning and what they will win, it's a VIBE about the whole thing. Man U, Liverpool and others, all grew and developed over a long period of time - it really did feel organic and, as someone who doesn't follow any of those teams, when they were doing extremely well I would look at them and think 'wow, look at how they're playing and look at what they're achieving'... With City it's like 'ah.. they've won again, what a surprise'.
If someone builds a business from the ground up and becomes wealthy/successful then it's an achievement... if someone wins the lottery and buys 5 Bugattis then it's no surprise and simply doesn't carry the same kudos.
Amen
I love being a small club winning everything, get to keep the joy to myself, better connection with the club and players and I get tickets easily👍👍🤣
Better connection with the club and players??? Your owners are in Qatar. You get tickets easily because they give them away outside to inflate crowd sizes.115 charges to boot. Good luck
All this nonsense will be wiped out by the future generation should Man City continue with their dominance.
@@wlf102 You the one not understanding it mate, apart from football being a social thing(fans and culture) it's also a business and you gotta plan for the future(talents and rebuild). One main reason teams like Ars, Liv, United, Barca, juve n Milan fell of is the business thing(economically) City have laid the foundation in both only thing that may stand their way are the potential charges which may tarnish its satatus(social) and competition from other clubs. View football from different angles not only field performances.
Remember when United used to laugh at Liverpool saying they only speak about history and legacy… nowadays Liverpool are more concerned about challenging and winning trophies than legacy and it’s United who are holding on to legacy 😂😂😂😂
"more concerned about challenging and winning"...gave me a good laugh.
if Liverpool does not win another big trophy while supposedly greatest manager Klopp and his greatest ever players are at their peak, which seems very likely due to Man City, then that would be 1 EPL in around 35+ years for Liverpool.
Few years down the line, no body cares if you "challenged" or not.
Man united haven’t won a league title since 2013 and let’s be brutally honest, they ain’t winning it this year or next
And yet here you are talking about united, we are massive
@@jacksparrow532 Talk about a good laugh. Liverpool are the most successful club in England, Something City never will be. Grab your few trophies & titles while you can because fortunes change, as the real cream of football(Liverpool, Man U & to an extent Arsenal) can tell you. You still have FFP to deal with, & chequebook Pep will grab his toys & run sooner or later. Few years down the line, no body cares if you "won a few titles" or not.
Every club that doesn't rely on FFP irregularities and Oil money, will go through times of prosperity and times of barron spells because it is organic and natural..
There is nothing natural about a club buying success with oil money and have unlimited finances, those clubs don't have barron spells (or at least shouldn't)
Point is that makes them a plastic club, Unlike United and Liverpool and Arsenal.
Simon is the only one who seems to care about this argument, not a single Man City Fan cares about being "bigger" than Man U or Liverpool
Yes they all do
Because deep down they all know their success is phoney
Because their all plastic and dripping in oil
really
That's a lie they all moan about being the best in England, deep down they envy the clout and success of united and Liverpool.
Hahahhaahaha....full blown Man City hate😅, never appreciate good football, always has a cavier for everything, and I like to live in the present, and for me this is the best team after peps barca team and Ferguson's 2009 team, thank you Pep for for changing PLs football for better, and may other team of PL grow to match them, to dominate the world football and hopefully UK will win the next world cup ( but only if Messi retires 😅)
last world cup was rigged for messi - england will never win anything with soygate in charge
It's a 'caveat'. And yes, they're right to caveat Man City's achievements with the financial doping. They specifically made a point of pointing out that this Man City *team* is historically great and praised the football they played. Discussion was about the club. It's not enough to have less than a decade of achievement to enter the pantheon. They've won 1 CL (and it's not even the European Cup) and Pep needed the best goalscorer in the world to do it (again). No one can identify the City stadium by the way it sounds or the way a stand looks on a European night. City still have to hand out little mass-produced paper flags because despite coming to watch some of the best football that's ever been played anywhere, no one's bovvered enough to actually make a real flag.
I personally enjoy City winning more than United.
But they do have about 100 ffp cheats basically
First and foremost, Pep's statement about where City stand after winning the CL compared to the rest is a mark of his greatness as a manager.
Once upon a time Man United and Liverpool were two developing clubs until great managers made them what they are today. Yes I know City have lots of money but let us ignore that fact for a minute and go on their success over the last decade. City are growing quickly as a football entity and are building a level of success on the pitch that is difficult to compete with. So whether we like it or not they could possibly catch Liverpool and United in the future and match them in success and stature. As a Liverpool fan I don't respect City the way I respect United as an institution with it's great history but I respect the manager and the team for what they have already achieved. We are now in an era where money is the supreme power and it's a very sad affair to see these super rich clubs trampling on the less financially fortunate clubs.
I have to be careful not to come across as a hypocrite like many fans here because Liverpool needs investment to compete with the likes of the big super rich clubs. It's unavoidable.
We can all moan about club integrity being eroded in the modern game but if we don't play the game we don't stay in it.
The bottom line is that City are building a legacy right now and it will be difficult to challenge it. Another decade or so of success and maybe their status will be up there but whether they will have the same iconic status as Real, Barca, AC Milan, Liverpool and Manu remains to be seen.
If they can cheat, so can we, is basically what you are saying, and I agree. You can have 'standards' if you want, and we can fade into obscurity, or we can play the game city are playing, with permission now it seems from Fifa, Uefa and the govs, so hurry up Qutar, Saudis, Aliens, whoever has pots of money. Buy us so we can go toe to toe.
If breaching ffp is now fair, breach away I say.
Of course it will be difficult to challenge as it's built on a state owned club who have been breaching financial regulations for years
@@Kevinjj1991see below. Eat your heart out Kevin.
@@hiddysonday1 A legacy built on financial doping, how impressive
I agree to a lot of things you've said, but only time will tell, whether City will be recognized as such, Madrid and Liverpool are a talk of the town because of consistency over various decades and if Mancity can emulate that then Legends will be born.
Im a city fan and i don't care, all city fans are well aware of this but it keeps being repeated each season for the sake of it. Most fans dont care about the size of their club if they follow them who actually cares.
If I was a City fan I wouldn't care either. I care about what is happening now rather than how my club is going to be perceived in 40 years time.
@@Leepal1969There’s 115 things happening right now that take quite a lot of shine off those achievements.
Bro this is all ego forget them...I mean same people said Guardiola won't dominate the premier league upon his arrival, now they're singing him praises every now and then...🤷♂️
@@TJW-YTlmfao 115 ALLEGATIONS not a single one of which has been proven. You actually have to prove somebody is guilty 😂😂😂
“all city fans”… I haven’t found one yet 😆
"Man City are too busy winning"
@@johnnyrocker7495What a silly remark, the European kings have one of the lowest net spends.
@@robertmclellan3658The most expensive squad assembled
@@wobbphillipworrall1426 That’s untrue, stop telling porkies.
Right now, yes, City isn't as big as Liverpool or United by a long shot. However, if City continues to dominate the league for another 15 years, they will become bigger. Why? Because every day, new fans are starting to watch football, and they always love successful clubs and will support successful teams. Additionally, the older fans who watched Liverpool during their heyday are growing older, and some of them are no longer with us. Remember, in the mid-90s, Liverpool was the biggest club in England, but United's two decades of dominance changed that.
Old Trafford always had a larger capacity crowd than Anfield even when United played in the old Second Division they had 60 thousand plus in attendance for Home Games
As Simon said City have bought theirs and pep won't be there for another 15 years
Correct! Simons united bias is totally ott. What’s driving his stupid comments about commercial deals etc? united are fourth in commercial revenue behind the two Spanish giants and city?
City Winning Legacy while shorter
More illustrious than any PL Club
Treble,Domestic Quad,Centurions 💯
All while playing best football,no?🤔
In 58 everything changed. Utd was on the cusp of challenging and arguably passing the great Madrid team that went on to win the EC 5 years running. Duncan Edwards was destined to be the greatest ever English player (Moore would possibly have never been captain). Sir Matt rebuilt the team as did SAF (repeatedly). Bill Shankly got Liverpool promoted and then put the building blocks in place for Paisley, etc to turn the club into a powerhouse through the 70s & 80s. Both clubs particularly Utd usedyouth with experience to create dynasties. City were in the doldrums (relegation, relegation) after some success in the late 60s but a state decided to invest in the club, hire various coaches until they got the best in this era and they have become the team to emulate/beat. Fair play to them as a lot of clubs would want their backers and coach. However, City have tried to cut corners (115 upcoming) and anyone knows it takes decades to create what the likes of Utd and Liverpool have done. Pep will go eventually and maybe similar ‘states’ will take over other clubs so it’s is doubtful that they will get to the global appeal of the likes of the two reds. Toon could also be coming for them and Arsenal were not far off last season so while they are a dominant force it is possible their time will be up much sooner than they think.
Here we go, Jim Shite & co were last season spouting "City will never be a big club unless they win the Champions league " this season they'll never be a big club unless they win it again. Utter bellends .
The 7 chakras of City haters :
1. Jealousy
2. Tears
3. Pains
4. Fear
5. Excuses
6. History lecturing
7. Saltiness
Are united traveling to Munich by bus or plane?
Actively Listen.. You wont die if you do! Mancity is a great team but isnt a great football club like Madrid , Milan , Bayen , Liverpool etc. It took decades... Listen! You wont die!
Ur right we lost the last thing we had against city the champions league
But now we are complaining about how Manchester city turned the EPL into a farmers league wining it every year almost
8. Cheats
Don't forget the oil.
It’s a nonsensical argument, history is written every day, if Man City become more successful than Man Utd and Liverpool in terms of trophies then they’ll undoubtedly create a legacy just as great and arguably better, It’s inevitable
These guys think it’s still the year 2000, the kids coming through now only know Man City as the dominant team
United gets covered a lot more in the news though and more parents support Manchester United because it by far a bigger club.
If in 20 years time, Man City fans can boast about having won 20 league titles and 5 Champions' League titles along with iconic team moments like winning the EPL with 100pts and winning the treble, they will be spoken of in the same way fans talk about Man Utd and Liverpool today.
As if Pep is going to stay on to manage City for the next 20 years
Simon hating City in other news water is wet. I swear he makes 3 videos per year about how United is bigger than Madrid (🤣) and how City will never be like United.
To say "never" you are fooling yourselves. I am here in South Africa and everyone is wearing Man City shirts. Yes it was not like that in the past, but now. City is growing.
nonsense I am also in South Africa it is rare to Man city shirts we tend to see man u, liverpool ,arsenal, chelsea shirts more before you randomly see a man city shirt even at the sports stores
Yeah sure, Namibia and South Africa pretty much identical. At the moment Man City is very small, but yes it's growing, you will see alot of Man City t-shirts now but they cannot compare to Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea, in the shops, you will find a home kit plus the away kits for Man u, Arsenal and Liverpool, because the shirts sell and the fans are alot still.
No doubt Man City is growing but we have a long way to go. If you go to the location where some people cannot afford to have their own TV and where a community comes together to watch a match of football, you will find that the bar is empty if it's a Man City match but it's always packed if it's Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal is playing, the only time it is full it's if Man City is playing one of those big clubs.
At home, people would rather play Playstation than watch Man City play, I have to watch on the other screen alone because it's hard to find a fellow man city fan.
But it is ok, we can only hope for the best and that is to keep growing. All the young people now will choose Man City and it is this generation that is going to be big when all these old fans of these big clubs die out, the young fans Man City is attracting now, they too will go tell the story the same way these old people are telling now
@@gunner4life568 Nonsense. Man City shirts are every Puma and sport stores. Dont lie.
@gunner4life568 of course your in South Africa 😂
@@malibongwematewu4007 Man City fanbase is growing in SA, but it's not at the level of Man U, Arsenal,Chelsea and maybe even Liverpool... Most EPL fans in SA grew up watching it in the 2000's and Man City wasn't worth shxt back then
Simon and Danny are both correct about the time it will take City to grow, if ever, to the stature of LFC and maybe even MU - it will take decades as it took them many decades. That said, couple of other things to consider: MU and LFC had long period of stability and their respective owners dumping money into their clubs over the decades and they should be applauded for it. In doing so, they won more trophies, gained more notoriety, gained more fans & supporters and it has a positive feedback loop effect. Most other clubs of similar age did not have that, but that comes down to the luck of the draw so fair play to them for taking advantage of it.
However, what is working for City currently and hurting LFC and def MU is that although they are much bigger, they are starting to fade in relevancy from a competition perspective. If this is not addressed, then over time it will spread and have a deleterious effect on the fanbase as new fans who come into the sport will choose the team that is winning, much like how MU and LFC gained so many fans over the years, it works in reverse too. Ironically, as ETH said when he came into the league last season, all great eras come to an end. Presumably, he was talking about City, but perhaps his words will prove prescient and ascribed to MU if they dont get it into gear soon. Remember, Preston North End was a powerhouse at one point and now, well they've been relegated to the ashbin of history like so many other clubs. On a long enough timeline, everyone survival rate reaches zero...
To be fair though, Liverpool haven’t really faded in terms of competition compared to United. Liverpool have been the only team that could keep up with City, even beating them to a league title and champions league. Arsenal are now in the mix. United have bigger hurdles to go through to be taken seriously again.
You know, I'm a man utd fan. It will take time for city, but look at the young fans. I see more and more city jerseys. I do worry about this..
@@migez1they faded for 30 years
@@nickbrookfield1 learn to read mate. OP stated that “they are starting to fade in relevancy from a competition perspective”. Liverpool are in 3rd, 2 points behind City meanwhile United sit below the mid table in 13th lol.
Owners Dumping money in for decade's?
You've completely missed out that United have been bled dry and restricted financially to service a debt they never needed or asked for and Liverpool were on the brink of Liquidation not too long ago with hicks and gillet.
Both Liverpool and United were massive clubs well before the start of the Premier league.
They never needed sugar daddy owners to make them relevant they did it themselves.
I’d rather be a “small”club who wins.. than a “museum” club who doesn’t..
That’s besides the point tho hahhahahaha
Don't worry..you'll always be a small club who bought your success!😎👹
@@StephenC-49 ..arsenal and united are 2 big clubs who have spent what they earned through their support..City.. Chelsea ..have bought their success!🤨👹
@@StephenC-49yup. John Henry Davies pumped money into Utd back in the day. Every one wants to talk about their "history" but they don't want to mention that kinda stuff?
@@StephenC-49All those clubs spent their own money. C115ty spent the Arab oil money meant for starving kids in the Middle East!!! Fraud team 😂
I'm a Man Utd fan. Back to back trebles could very well happen this season for City. They are years in front of every other club in the Prem. This is their time. Just like when Liverpool and Man Utd had their time of dominance, I agree that City won't be held in the reverence as LFC and MUFC. But, we can't take away how brilliant they have been in the last 10 years.
Yeah, cheating and money will do that.
Newcastle have its work to do but I think they can beat pass Manchester city not trophy wise but on everything a positive yes
I agree. Clubs like Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United and Liverpool have built their history over decades. While City are enjoying their success now, it's at the expense of others not being on their historic levels. It could simply take Manchester United 1 managerial decision to turn the tide again in their favour, whereas we don't know how City will look after Pep leaves.
The other big clubs have continued to be big even after their greats left. City could end up like Nottingham Forrest, Ipswich and Leeds (Clough, Robson and Revie) who lost their status as a top club of the time right after their iconic managers left. We will see how City look after Pep leaves.
you forgot AC Milan
um.... before pep... is city like the teams you mention before.. is not that dominated but always in top 4😅
I agree with a lot, but Barca bought the refs
I'm am Arsenal fan and I acknowledge that there are a handful of iconic global teams..Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man United..Liverpool, Inter..you will find kids in South Sudan wearing Ronaldo 7 United Shirts.....the reach is insane. City are an amazing team...but no achievements in a 10 year period can make you be a legacy club.
You have to have multiple teams with different core players do this multiple times.
arsenal has no ucl, don't even enter this conversation
Surely Juventus and AC Milan are more iconic and global than Inter Milan
@@-The-Darksidewho cares about fartenal outside of England 😂😂
For me Arsenal are the biggest club in London for sure.
Inter over AC Milan or Juventus??🤣🤣 Inter are only iconic in Italy, but they can't touch Milan in terms of global appeal and fanbase
Liverpool are the biggest club in England guys I’m sorry.
Same amount of titles and double the UCL?
Liverpool in the 80s were just as good as United in the 90s.
All I keep hearing is “they didn’t win the title for 30 years.”
Okay…. United went 26 years and got relegated?
And in that 30 years, Liverpool won 2 UCL, multiple europa leagues and multiple domestic trophies 😂
United an LFC are glorious legacy clubs. But City are coming fast.
Jim's "I can't understand what you're saying" act for the purposes of fake argument starts off amusing, but gets tiresome after a while.
You'll can keep your history and legacy with yourselves
I'll enjoy my club's present and focus on the future
Gonna come back to this in 2034 when Manchester City win more honours than any other team in world football let alone England.
And nothing will have changed.
Not a chance real madrid have won over 100 trophys lol
ive supported City for 35 years. I dont judge a team by their revenue, brand, number of fans. I hope we are never "bigger" than Manu or Liverpool because it tuns fans into obnoxious zealots. Stay humble and stay humble.
I feel u I don't want man city to be big becoz everybody will support them as long we small club winning trebles that's perfect
As a city fan I’ll look forward to watching Liverpool and Man Utd etc fight it out over whatever trophy they dish out for being the biggest legacy club…
We don't need a trophy for that. We have fans that travel from up and down the country and worldwide for that matter that will keep that legacy going.
I'm sure you will have fun telling stories to your grandkids about a team called Man City that dominated football for a while which they will find hard to believe. A bit like telling the youth of today that Nottingham Forest won the European Cup twice!!
At least they can both say they haven't partaken in financial doping.
Since you don't seem to know what that trophy is, it's having the real European Cup permanently on display. You get that when you win it 5 times. Neither Manchester side has it.
I agree with Danny and Simon. Reason why City bought Grealish is for marketing purposes, he (in citys mind) is the closest thing to the next Beckham. Now that brings fans, teenage girls who aren't really interested in football, brands, deals etc. City know this better than anyone and they want to match United and Liverpool.
Sadly he won't be playing much now coz Doku is a proper winger not the back passing fool who cost 100m
@@2ru2pacFan bs he will always be remembered for city by anyone with decent football knowledge alongside barca, he won the treble and the club's first ever cl ffs
As a Liverpool fan, I believe no one will ever replicate the Fergie Babes.
It's not true. City buy English players because Peps philosophy is to have players from the country in the squad. Every club he's worked at has this as it's foundation. If they were worried about marketing why aren't they interested in Ronaldo, Mbappe etc...?
Stay bitter my friend 😂😂
For a 14 year old listening this conversation, it feels like you're listening people lived in the Era of dinosaurs. "Never will" says Dani ... I feel his bitterness and jealousy.
They don't have the legacy. Man City were a banter club for years and only achieved all this with Sheiky status/money. Take all that away and they would still be banter FC. Liverpool were winning everything in the 70s and 80s with British players, same with Man United in the 60s. Legacy takes time to build.
Another dinosaur comes out for a reply. Talking about legacy: Have you ever been a centurion? Have you ever ever won a domestic quadruple? Have ever won 3 peat? Have you ever won a TREBLE?
@@zerishhailemariam1339 wtf are you talking about? No respect whatsoever for anything that came before. Anybody could do great things with billions of pounds. Nottingham Forrest won two European Cups back to back with an entirely British team, Liverpool won 3 in quick succession in the 80s and were considered the best team in the world... Man City have... 1, that's it. Bayern Munich are in this competition, Madrid, Barcelona... more teams with actual history and legacy. Man City went from banter FC to Plastic FC. They couldn't hold a candle to the Liverpool team of the 80s or the Madrid team from just a few years back.
@@chrissymc886 liverpool team from the 80's lol, what about liverpool team of now darwizzzzy
@@Lelough_ they were in how many Champions league finals over the last few years? Oh and overall... money has ruined football.
Obv City could become 'bigger' than United or Liverpool, it's quite unlikely. But if City keep playing well over the next many years, then they'll obv get a bigger group of supporters. New generations of kids will grow up watching City dominate the Pl, like they are right now. It's not rocket science. But, yes it'll take a long time.
City dominate/scare Madrid,Bayern
Utd,Lpool not seen same way
Treble,Domestic Quad,Centurions 💯
City already Elite,no?🤔
What about the children with a dad that already supports another team?
They’re a manufactured club put together by superwealth fantastic team but they won’t ever have the same appeal as a Liverpool or a united, both those clubs are steeped in history not just to do with silverware it’s the story that sits along side the club that’s why they have incredible world wide following
Chelsea are no where near and look what they've achieved it's not gonna happen.
@@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeingsliverpool won 3 ucl in 5yrs including back to back and 3 finals in a row and 6 titles in 9yrs in the 80s and still got to 4 ucls finals won 2 in there 30 yrs of dark times
Mourinho speech about football heritage comes to mind when I hear this.
As a city fan I don't really care if Liverpool or United or any other fans think we are a " legacy club " we win every year , just won a treble and the best run club in England at the top level . It wasn't our legacy that won us them trophies , what Did legacy do for Liverpool who won pretty much nothing apart from a champions league and the odd cup for 30 years . City fans are happy with what's going on and that will do us
U cared enough to comment
Man city are without doubt the best team ive ever seen domestic or international! And would beat any team from any era! But and this is the thing! It is all down to one man PEP! And city fans should enjoy this time! Because when PEP leaves or retires the domination Ends and city fans knw this! PEP is a phenomenon the greatest manager ever as a coach as a man manager! He can rebuild teams seamlessly while still winning!
@@starzgalaxy17 and we are the current holders and your legacy didn't even qualify you for the champions league this year so well done on the legacy
What have Liverpool won apart from 19 leagues and 6 UCL's and still in the conversation for both most years. Best run yeah when you cook the books to the extent they do. And have been caught for it. Soulless plastic organisation who still can't fill the stadium.
@@Dan-oo8kg 😅6 UCL THOUGH
City fans are not that stupid Danny 😂 if Liverpool fans are stupid enough to turn up to a game without tickets let it be 😂
City has been a club that has been through pain over the years and they deserve success
City dominate/scare Madrid,Bayern
Utd,Lpool not seen same way
Media "Manufactured Club" jibe
Shows Envy of City being Elite,no?🤔
Bought success
@@PerfectMask1
City - bought players
City Rivals - don't buy players?🤔
@@PerfectMask1 you can say they bought it but this is problem with fans who don't understand what is the aim of elite sport , why don't tell your club to complete for trophies and set the standards of your football club that you support😄
@@lilithatwalo6041 he is right tho... they bought their success. If the Sultan of Bahrain buys Espanyol de Barcelona to take on the rival club and injects a monstrous amount of money to compete in the Champions League and La Liga... eventually they will get there... eventually they will dominate the domestic league... and eventually they will have "fair-weather fans" popping up all over the world claming they are diehard fans with counterfeit shirts... but they will never be a big club in the minds of football people. They will be what City, Chelsea or PSG are at the moment, "manufactured big clubs". They will never be FC Barcelona, regardless of how much they win.
It’s funny to me as a Liverpool fan to see man united fans talk about legacy. For years they called Liverpool history fc. Look at them now. Great to see
@ebuTuoYY 40 years?! 😂 that is not correct at all, what are you talking about?
@@Yewchewb How recent are you talking about? Before Klopp they won the CL as recent as 2005 lol
Where you getting 40 years 😂😂😂 Liverpool won the league in 20, the champions league in 2019, 2005, where’s this 40 years come from
@@kennethmashingaidze3926go easy on united fans, they're just coming to terms with being an irrelevant club. It's not easy for them
@@Yewchewbbetween 1990 & 2020 Liverpool won 4 Football League cups, 3 FA cups, 2 Champions Leagues, A UEFA cup, 3 Supercups, A Club World Cup & were Premier league runners up 3 times. Where did you get 40 years of winning nothing from? Give your head a wobble lad.
What matters most is City keep winning trophies 🏆.
Not a City fan, but even if I was, what would I care about 'legacy?' City are the best team in the country and are probably also one of the best run clubs from top to bottom. Legacy shmegacy.
I wouldn’t say best run given there are charges levelled against them regarding cooking the books.
Don't think that Big banks and big corporations don't cook the books 📚 🔥
@@robbiekop7 And your point is?
@@robbiekop7 Exactly
We all know it won’t last but while we are on this roll I’m loving every minute of it and making the most. The one manager who has really surprised me with his football tactics is Roberto De Zerbi.. if he’s not been snapped up beforehand I could see him replacing pep when he decides to go..
Not Vincent Kompnay ???
@@rjw4762 Think if he doesn’t turn things round soon he might be out the door at Burnley..
Fair dos. I think you might be underselling City a bit here, your recruitment department has a very decent track record (and would have a better one with a less idiosyncratic manager) and there's no reason that can't continue beyond Pep. Hands off De Zerbi btw, I have him earmarked for if and when Klopp leaves ;) He's somehow scoring oodles of goals with players who couldn't score in a bordello previously, lost key players this summer and is still playing his high-risk vertical combinations that I expected teams to start figuring out this season, but apparently not. Takes a lot to be the most innovative manager in a league with Pep (and to a degree Klopp) in it. I suspect he has the right personality for a big job as well.
I think De Zerbi will go to Milan
@@MichaelHolmgaard Possible. Rumour used to be Napoli. It just seems hard to imagine someone going back to the Serie A in the state it is in now and given the wage disparity if they had big PL jobs on offer, but Italians do love their domestic league.
Trust me as a City fan we are not pressed about other ppl deals & their legacy we winning now & into the future 😂 keep yall history we'll just continue making ours in yall face
Man united- 3UCL
Liverpool- 6UCL
😅oh city fans
@starzgalaxy17 hey continue clutching your history while we continue making ours how many EPL's will this be again in a row🤔? History don't breed on field success now does it😅 yall better pray we don't back2back the treble.....
@@anthonyandrews5685 still have no respect in PL😅
@starzgalaxy17 😅😅😅keep your respect we'll keep winning lhh yall respect not winning titles now is it
United is like the New York Yankees in baseball, Dallas Cowboys in American Football. Notre Dame football and North Carolina basketball. The brand is iconic. No matter the success on the field, they are associated with that sport.
True the brand is huge. Even if there terrible for another decade they would still be the biggest club in the league. I'm an American arsenal fan and can see that.
Yeah your right The LA Lakers regardless are a huge brand and the first I think of in basketball but haven't done much since Shaq and Kobe
City dominate/scare Madrid,Bayern
Utd not seen the same way
City have Treble,3peat,also Centurions
Utd Legacy longer,not Illustrious as City,no?🤔
No Man United are like Liverpool; iconic Football clubs and pillars of their respective communities who's popularity is global. All those American franchises you just referenced are exactly that; American franchises. They are the pillars of American Television for American sports fans. When Liverpool play Man Utd between 500m-700m from over 250 countries tune in to watch these 2 great English Footballing dynasties go head to head. The Superbowl is the biggest event on the American sports calendar and has a record TV audience of just 120m, four times less at best. American sports are not comparable to English Football. At all.
@@jasonjones36382020 champs....
I think it's an important distinction to make that it's between the team that is current and the club that is permanent. As amazing as City's team is right now, there's nothing to say that they have a another guaranteed UCL win and there's nothing to say that Pep will be there for another 5 years. What happens then? they'll most likely take a natural dip in quality and performance till they can find their feet and start winning again, they've certainly got enough money for multiple rebuilds to stay consistent but that is the argument here in my mind. It's consistency over a long long period of time that dictates the legacy and popularity of a club the likes of which Man Utd, Liverpool, Barca, Madrid etc enjoy right now. Man City are still relatively very very new to all this success and it will take multi-generational success at the very top of the footballing world like the other huge clubs for them to be universally considered a part of that pantheon. I'm sure people will argue to the contrary about aristocracy in football, high brow ideals and gatekeeping etc but Just now, they're generally considered a better and more successful version of PSG, any club that suddenly has billions thrust upon them will go through the same outside perceptions. If Man City continue their success for years to come, they will inevitably become as big as the other clubs if not bigger regardless of whether other football fans accept it or not. I'm not sure whether City fans actually care about any of this or not but that's how it looks from an outside perspective at least.
Agreed. With the proviso that Newcastle seem to be doing things the right way - they're certainly investing, but it's really not anything beyond what a club their size should be able to invest had they not been run like a thrift store for decades - so despite their ownership, I think they do and will get more credit for their success. As for Man City fans, I think the old school fans really don't care about outside perspectives and are just enjoying the ride, and why wouldn't they? They've got a spectacular team to watch. The plastic bandwagon jumpers care, but they're irrelevant.
United and Liverpool loved by the media… I wonder if it has to do with at least 1 player from either of those teams on every sky or talk sport show(pretty much)
Who cares about legacy if Man City is the Now and Future?
"Not in my lifetime"Where did I hear that before?
You can literally see the pain in those two🤣🤣
All the pundits like Simon that complain about teams like city and Chelsea having investors money take issue because they use their owners help to buy players and build new infrastructure but totally ignore the fact that without people investing in teams like that we would have 2 teams in the run for the title every single year because smaller teams wouldn't be able to keep up. United years ago would bully many clubs out of signings because they'd splash the cash and nobody else could afford to give players those deals. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Now we have one and are a farmers league
@@mjl2904 that argument would be valid if there wasn't multiple teams spending more than city on transfers over the last 10 years that have won next to nothing.
@@PureKalione115 charges, cooked books. If you believe anything about City's finances then more fool you.
City 115 Charges - Unproven
Lpool Hacked into City - Proven
Media question - City,never Lpool
Conspiracy Theory to call Media Corrupt?🤔
Real Madrid do the same always. That’s why in La Liga just 2 strong teams.
It took this video to give confidence to the jealous and United fans to crawl out of their caves 😂
They've been wanting videos like this not their turmoil and disgusting issues in their clubs Just to finally have some kind of a win at least.. They've suffered enough 😂
the truth hurts city fans . united are organic and city are not , city will always be united's little brother
@@progressionsessions99 organic, what does that even mean 🤣🤣
means city needed money from middle east to be successful while united used a lot of home grown players and whether city fans like it or not united will always be in the news bad or good constantly even when city have won a treble united still take the lime light @@aqon1770
It means they naturally grew into a big clubs by the players and managers they had over the years with success along the way. City was a small club with little success until a huge amount of money was injected into the club making it grow and become successful. Hopefully that helps. @@aqon1770
@@progressionsessions99congratulations for being organic ig. Whatever that means
I would rather be a City fan than a Liverpool or a Manchester united any day . City's history has been one of hardship and many many years of watching United have success something most City fan do not forget . United and Liverpool have had periods of amazing success in different eras . City have history but haven't won quite as much as the other two . Right now we the best manager around at the present time but the test will come after he leaves although before he arrived they were winning things already . I think the future after Pep has already been mapped out they know its coming and are trying set up for a future transition where City still win trophies and are successful . The Sheikh wants to breed success like Bayern Munich ,Real Madrid Manchester United and Liverpool have had season after season he wants it to be a habit .
Say that with a straight face 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
What’s this guy been smoking? 😂
Success bought not earned doesn't have the same value. The sheik could have saved a few billion by buying trophies at Timpsons
Hardship WTF? Liverpool and United's glory is all about sweat and blood. It is a hard earned glory of countless of decades and efforts to come to this day. This artificial club ruined football paving the way for PSG and Chelsea after turning this amazing sport into money laundering machine. Go watch tennis dude.
I think it's about passion. Most of the Citys fanbase is young. They came when City became the best. Being a fan is NEVER about your club being the best. Those who think it is, will leave the day when the club continue to fail, year after year.
This is a nonsense discussion really. Looking back is for those who don’t win anymore.
Simon's perspective is that of a 50+ year old person. Man city is as big as Liverpool or Man utd for a young person. Just like how Chelsea is for me. Money is money whether it's organic or with pesticides. You can't win consistently without a great team and you can't have a great team without money
Agreed
Exactly. People born in the 19th century would have probably argued that Man United and Liverpool could never match Preston, Aston Villa and Sunderland because these were the dominant teams back then. But times changed.
They can’t fill their ground. Small club
Never say never
Recently came back from a multi location holiday in Italy. The only English football shirts I saw in 15 days were city shirts. Always used to be liverpool or united. Things are already changing.
What made me laugh was Simons comment about Man Uniteds great European cup winners team in 1968 , with Charlton , best etc . Correct me if im wrong but didnt Man City beat them to the league title that season ? Enough said .
Yes, Busby's dream came true in 1968. Ten years after Munich we won it for our babes.
Wow. And City continued to dominate after that did they?
@@Discombobulate453 league Cup, fa Cup, European Cup winners Cup, 2nd in the league twice . So they didn't do to badly considering they had no history before the arabs came along .
Man City's success will be forever tainted by the financial scandal...
As of this moment Simon and Danny are correct but Jim is spot on in saying if city win another UCL & 4 straight EPL title the narrative change will have begun and it will be certainly in Jim's life time city will match the history and legacy of united & liverpool
They'll need to repeat that with another manager at a minimum. The legendary clubs have managed to build successive dynasties. Right now, it's not "Man City" winning, it's Pep and this particular merry band of mercenaries. You'll know it's closer to happening when players turn down bigger money because they want to play for City. Incidentally, ManU is only considered this prestigious in England. Elsewhere they're viewed as a domestically successful club with a great commercial and marketing department - they simply don't have the European pedigree to be on the level of Bayern, Real, AC Milan or Liverpool in the football pantheon.
Both Simon and Danny are correct , City are well behind the mark of Liverpool and United but for one reason , United were an early produce of Mass Marketing , in which from the early 70s the fans were known as walking souvenir shops then of course this brand was exported before any had started fueled by success , fans will examine history of the Club as they won't know why they're so big , there was a time when United were the second fiddle in terms of attendances and It was City who bailed them out , as far teams Im happy with currently measured by the silverware City keep winning and hand on heart that's the main for me , the only reason they get bigger deals is because of their marketing ploys , I'd rather follow my team through thick and thin rather than how many fans we have in Indonesia or in Liverpools case Australia , always happy to be a Blue
For me only real madrid and bayern have had a constant dynasty of success since there beginnings, both have won a treble of European/champions leagues (madrid have done both formats) both won titles in the 90s 2000s and 2010s on ward's. It extremely hard to do.
Success will make them...united n liverpool fans r older...this generation only back winners...legacy only matters to older folks
Old local folk only can be fan of history club but global fan only support winners
Why were Liverpool still one of the biggest clubs in the world without winning the league for 30 years? Hopefully it doesn't happen to United but they will be the same. I wouldn't be surprised if City was put up for sale it wouldn't be worth half as much as Liverpool or United. City doesn't have worldwide attention like other clubs and your money pretty much only comes from your owner.
I'm sure most people support a club because they are local, parents supported them or they were successful at that time. That's always been the case.
That's why legacy is important to clubs and not just the fans!!
History is nothing without current success...wht r they talking about
“THEY WILL NEVER BE BIGGER THAN UNITED OR LIVERPOOL.” Says the failed club owner who hates City and a Liverpool ex player and fan. Let me know how this turns out when my 2 year old becomes 20. I guarantee with their management structure and ambition they will be THE PL powerhouse and spoken in the same manner as Real.
Fascinating discussion, pep is humble but what he achieved (even with spending a lot) is amazing. He is a genius. Am a Manchester United fan and I think the allure of heritage and tradition is unmatchable but city can be there in another 10-20 years of success and a specific footballing identity, is city’s identity based on pep or a club identity of philosophy?
@@ballondorson488 pep Guardiola haters are a sad bunch he was told he won’t succeed in the PREMIER LEAGUE because apparently the barca way of his won’t work in it now the epl fans themselves are begging for him to leave 🤡🤡🤡🤡
For most fans outside the UK, what matters most is the current state of the team, their success, their competitiveness, and their ability to 'entertain.'
Absolutely. Who cares what happened in the 70s? Best they watch reruns of old games instead 😂
@@wlf102 lol... What you know about me? I'll tell you what.... If you force the "plastic" fans out of your fanbase.... be prepared to operate on a shoestring budget
Simon - City fans don't care about other clubs past. Were living in the now, we know it won't last forever but the foundations being laid at all levels are hopefully enough to leave us in a place where success is achievable every year, it's never guaranteed, we know this, we are realists. NEVER is a very long time fellas.
Their legacy is being written now. Something special about loyalty to their club which United had under Ferguson as well. You have the lifelong loyalty such as Giggs, Neville and Scholes. Like Maldini and Baresi was for Ac Milan. But they had plenty players who stayed for 10+ years like Beckham, Ferdinand, Rooney, Irwin, Keane etc.
United can't even sell players as they never want to move on. That's loyalty too in a more depressing way.
Jim got it in one “United get bigger kit deals” 😂
City’s fan base and following is the fastest growing in world football. The gap was enormous but is closing at a rate of knots. If Pep does another 5 years they’ll not be far off. To overtake they need to find the next pep to continue their success beyond his legacy.
But its manufactured, not organically grown. That's the difference.
@@paulmartin9194jesus wept , 😂😂😂
@@paulmartin9194..yes..bought..not earnt!!🤨👹
@@StephenC-49 a person of integrity
City commercial success is all manufactured.
Remember when City were called the noisy neighbours? Me neither!
Simon Jordan and Danny Murphy are not considering the impact and reach of the media and broadcasters which creating a mass fan of army for mancity and i am cityzen from 2012 only from India and i live and breathe City 24*7, it doesn’t matter what you say we love city to heart when mancini was here, when pelligrini was here and now genius pep is rocking English football and we will be going to achieve for trophies in EPL and UCL with many other managers in future.
Genuine question here. Pre-2008, which English clubs would people rank as having a bigger/better history or legacy than Manchester City? I'm interested to know which clubs people consider "Big Clubs."
@BobbySpringer1 Pre-2008 just going by league titles to determine legacy I would say Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Aston Villa, Sunderland, Chelsea, Newcastle United, Sheffield Wednesday, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Leeds United, Huddersfield Town, Blackburn Rovers and then including european cup/champions league wins I would also add Nottingham Forest. Now I would say Manchester City are the 3rd (possibly 4th, hard to compare Arsenal and Manchester City) behind Liverpool and Manchester United. Manchester City probably need 10+ more Premier League titles and 5+ Champions Leagues to take top spot. I can see that happening with the teams current trajectory, although I would be pessimistic about success after Guadiola leaves.
So would you call all of those "big clubs?"
@@mintviper5213
@@mintviper5213when pep leaves and they lose the referees that they have in their pockets we won’t be having these debates anymore
@eaganadams3314 I think it's very likely they won't be as successful when Guadiola leaves, but they are such a well run club. They will continue to challenge for titles and trophies long after pep has left.
That’s like saying Manchester United will never ever achieve the magnitude of Real Madrid! Man City have already if not are very close to passing United “on the field” by not only winning a CL, winning a treble by beating United in the FA Cup final, on their path to 4 consecutive premier league trophies which has never ever been done before, while doing it all in a harder era where many teams have wealthy foreign owners/billions to spend as well. Not even mentioning the countless records broken, most goals in PL history, 100 points in PL history etc
take a ride on bus 115
@@77retroLP haha keep holding on to that because that’s all u have now. Soon those charges will be completely dismissed and United fans just like their team will look like clowns yet again 🥴
But you prove his point. Man Utd will never achieve the magnitude of Real Madrid, on a global level.
Real Madrid is royalty.
Milan Liverpool Bayern - Elite
Barcelona Ajax Juventus United - top tier.
Eg. Man United best players will move to Madrid. Madrid old players descend to United
@@nodeenine2259 United would still be ELITE if not were hostage of the Glazers
I’m Ac Milan fan when simon mentioned bigger teams about their history he doesn’t mention Ac Milan , in what world does united has more history than us only thing they have is commercial value united are like kardashians getting F…. By everyone generates more attention and money 💴
Decades to catch up and can’t be mentioned on the same level? Laughable. Liverpool we’re second best for a few years there and everyone thought they were back for good.. arsenal have always been a second best status club aswell.
Liverpool LEAGUE titles - 19
Liverpool overall - 66
United LEAGUE titles - 20
United overall - 68 w 1 treble
City LEAGUE titles - 9
City overall - 32 w 1 treble
All that history for united and Liverpool, to have city catch up in the next 10 years. Also the fact with the players in todays market, they grew up watching Chelsea and City being successful, not Liverpool or United and that is why more players choose them.
Legacy equates to winning over a long period of time, so to say it won't happen to City is ridiculous.
However for legacy to be *important* you need to be current - Preston North End were the Invincibles and Huddersfield Town won 3 1st Division Champs in a row.
Basically what Simon and Brian are saying people will forever live in the past instead of looking at the present and the future! In my opinion, the past decade has been City’s time and its looks like will keep going for a while. So keep living in the past while City is currently dominating the league.
To be honest, I think city are already a bigger club than United. The transition has happened. Not talking about people who sit with Man United shirts on around the world, talking about all the ingredients to the pie, culture, recruitment, manager, success on the field, playing style and on on and on.
I know ManU fans who say they no longer even follow the team out of frustration
😂 City bigger than United. ONLY person in the world who thinks this.Give me whatever you're smoking 😆🤣🤣😂😊
City aren’t in the top 10 biggest clubs in Europe. I can’t stand man united but city are nowhere near them. United, Liverpool, Real Madrid etc are brands. Man city are a just a good football team and don’t have the globally reach of the clubs I’ve mentioned.
This shouldn’t be a debate.
Aside from just winning I do think City don’t have as much legacy moments like Chelsea who I believe they are competing with in the status being discussed before they can even speak about Liverpool & Utd.. currently they sitting on the 1 which is the Aguero goal.. their team is so good that actually adversity is not a thing which I really do think elevates club status… how you won a cup when you were 1-0 down in the 89 min or being 3-0 down at HT or being down to 10 men for nearly the entire match away from home then scoring a break away goal are such memorable moment that people do hold in their hearts and leaves that stamp about what the club is about.
I’m not saying make things tough, go beat what’s in front of you but I am saying that there is certainly more spice on things when you won the hard way. Liverpool, Utd have done that a lot over the years and Chelsea have a few times also since the Roman era
Jim looked upset, hope he got home okay.🤣
I agree with Danny and Simon.
P.S. - I am an Arsenal fan and like Simon said, I do not have a dog in the race.... But I do believe, the Real Madrid, The Barcelona, The Man Utd, the Liverpool will always have an extra space in my heart. I started watching football coz of Real Madrid and its glory - and then started falling in love with the brand of football that Wenger played.
But, I always know that Arsenal is in the next tier to the success and the glory of Liverpool/Man Utd/ Real Madrid..... I absolute hate Man Utd but bottom of my heart, I know that they are a bigger brand. Sir Alex has everything to do with it and he might be one of the biggest reasons for where Man utd are today but they are in the topmost tier of the sport named "Football"
Difference is that you may despise Man U but you can respect what they achieved. I can't have respect for a club when their rise to dominance is completely manufactured.
Its fake - like saying someone is beautiful in an online picture only to see they have used a ton of filters.
@@gladiatorscoops4907 exactly
It's actually quite curious. I said this in a comment on another thread on this video, the early Wenger era got Arsenal far more support than their actual trophies won would merit. And I think this is absolutely right. Always respected Arsenal as a Liverpool fan and know the rest of our fan base did as well. Proper club doing things the right way, not buying their success, and playing amazing footy. The recent descent into the banter blood clot badman era and the disrespect towards the end of Wenger's reign was hard to watch.
There is no cheat code or short cut to becoming a big club. You can buy achievements but the engagement from fans needs to grow across many decades
Even after Pep as long as we’ve got the current owners as we’ve got at the moment then whoever we appoint next isn’t going to be bad obviously they’re not going to be Pep but there’s not that many managers out there like him
Chelsea have 2 champions league and still aren’t bigger than arsenal
"Not in YOUR lifetime" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Brilliant!
Don’t give a damn what this man thinks, I am a supporter of the club and thats all that matters to a proper supporter.
The key here as Simon said, "generational." It take time to build and be considered iconic. Man City is still in their early days so to speak.
50-100 years from now if they're still killing it.. then they're iconic as the ones mentioned here.
Bunch on 50 yrs old tell us what the next generation gonna be be quiet yo 😂😂 gives 10 years most our fans are 8-15 now we own the next up coming generation of fans
As a city fan i love this debate, particularly because i don't care about having massive global support. Its my local team and that's what matters to me. It the commercialism that is probably ruining elements of football leading to ridiculous wages and transfers. Support your team through thick and thin. This is just a debate to stir up local rivalries and often hatred between sets of fans. Utd and Liverpool are bigger. As long as we keep winning i am happy.
Because ur success was only because of money.
Agreed, I’m enjoying the ride and glad I don’t need to watch my 1999 treble VHS to feel good
@@justingreenidge9684 money is always the difference between the biggest clubs and the ordinary clubs , do you think REAL MADRID would be as big if it wasn't for the money they have spent during the decades !
@@justingreenidge9684funny how united can't find any nowadays after spending 1.5 billion since fergie. Same goes. For Chelsea 14th place after a billion spend, yh money wins it for you doesn't it.
@@markie1990123 Once you face your investigations on ffp Pep will be gone and city will be back where they belong
Simon is wrong in this one, in my mind RB is BIGGER than Ferrari in F1 because I grew up watching Ferrari being crap with Mclaren and Mercedes overtaking them. In 20 to 30 years time it will be a different story when kids of this generation only ever grow up watching the best players play at Man city and winning trophies. Legacy will change generationally.
MY 2 CENTS - I value 5 CL trophies as a generational accumilation, rather than 5 CL trophies on the bounce. To rebuild teams years apart, and then win it, is far more weighted for prestige. Thats how the only way i look at trophies in he modern era.
I have a lot of time for Mr Jordan apart from when he talks about MCFC, his hypocrisy and dam right lies about them does him no favors.
Simon just sounds bitter, we don’t care about being an iconic club.
It’s not bitter. It’s common sense. You’re just hurt. Did the bad man say mean things about your team? 😢
@@Discombobulate453 i dont care im happy with our treble 😆
This is a petty argument to a true supporter of any given club
Its funny that a Crystal Palace fan is banging on about this more than any City fan when most of us don't care about being bigger than Utd or Liverpool.
That being said City have plenty of history if he actually cared to do some research.
I agree, when Pep leaves City will struggle, it's a shame Klopp will leave too and both clubs will end up trying to find the NEXT best manager
Kinda blows a hole in the argument that it’s just the money that makes City successful because if Pep goes the money still there so surely the success will continue. Unless it’s not just about the money.
Define struggle. We're City struggling before Pep? Why would they struggle? They won't dominate but they won't be in 14th like utd.
@@russellward4624they won't struggle were building smt gonna last longer than they thinkn
@@bobofett3966not really because if it weren’t for money pep would go there in the first place. Pep is a decent manager however he style on works at teams who are already established and spend great amounts of money. If pep went to a team who needed a rebuild he wouldn’t have the success that he’s had.
City are taking the right steps, its not just the football, they are winning the hearts of those in Manchester. Redeveloping areas, attracting young players who previously wouldnt have even considered City. The issues remain. Its not just growing up with a club dominating, its your parents showing and telling you about previous success, and hardships, its your grandparents. Its the feeling that this club and only this club is forever. Its not just one genius manager and a couple of others that won things, Ferguson is revered as he is because of Sir Matt. Klopps Liverpool are revered because of the teams of the 70's and 80's. Tragedies are not something you would wish on any club, and your heart goes out for all effected, but it also cements a club in the national minds and heart. What City are doing eclipses virtually all before it in English Football, but it will only ever be a foundation. Its what the next team does. Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest won champions leagues, Teams have won leagues, Dominated. Arsenal fans talk about the invincible's, people forget that PNE did it too. A decade isnt enough, it takes 3 or 4, if the Chairman leaves, can they still go again, when Pep leaves, will they go again. Their status can not even be discussed until those questions have been answered. And Frankly i would expect any City fan to care. Utd and Liverpool might talk about the fans in Africa or Asia, but what they really care about is the 11 on the pitch and the 10,000 in the icon home ends. Right now all City need is Pep, a passionate fan base and the 11 on the pitch. The rest will either come or wont and the more you ask for it, the more you demand it, the longer it will take.
Very interesting topic!
The only thing that enters my mind when I think about Liverpool is the Heysel Stadium, and my disbelief that Liverpool was ever allowed to play football in Europe again!
Remember when they won their domestic cup double and held a parade on the anniversary of Heysel?! Ashamed of nothing, offended by everything