Simon Jordan & Danny Murphy DEBATE Why An English Manager Hasn't Finished In The Top 3 In 20 Years 😤
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2023
- Simon Jordan Danny Murphy and Jim White debate why English managers haven't finished in the top 3 in 20 years
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Punditry is bigger than ever and bigger in England than any other European country. Ex English pros would rather be pundits. Get paid to sit on the sidelines and launch low-stakes criticisms rather than actually having to risk their reputation by becoming a manager
They are not very good 😕
Hence punditry
I now live in Spain and punditry here is far bigger, more vicious and more partisan than anything in the UK. You need to get out a lot more.
do they get paid more in Spain than in England? @@gillie-monger3394
@@gillie-monger3394which top Spanish players are doing it?
The problem is 75% of them are horrible pundits. They’re good for laughs & making fun more than actual insight. Jamie Redknapp, or better yet, Gabby Agbonlahor is the perfect example. Danny Murphy is one of the best but he hardly has the platform Redknapp & Agbonlahor have because he’s not hilariously foolish like those 2.
You can tell Jimbo loved reading this stat at Simon & Danny.
And them hmm and aad about it until Jim asked them would you want a English manger at there club. Danny Murphy answered him before he even finished asking the question.
The last legit elite English managers in top jobs was over 30 years ago, nothing to do with PL. The best Liverpool managers are Scottish with Paisley the anomaly (with Fagan having a year or two). Clough wasn't managing a top team past the mid 90s. Arsenal had a Scot in George Graham and then French Wenger. Man Utd had Scot Fergie. The last great English manager they had was in the 60s. The last top tier English managers were Sir Bobby and Venables. We simply haven't had the best managers ever.
Paisley was the most successful Liverpool manager though, to be fair.
@@gillie-monger3394 oh absolutely, but you could argue he also inherited an already monster team and built upon that. Regardless, you're still having to go back over forty years 😬 Not the most glowing summation of the standard since is it :/
@@Devypocalypse No it's not. But nothing wrong with inheriting a team then improving it. And Liverpool whilst being v good were not exactly "monsters" until Paisley made them so. When Pep did it at Barça he was considered a "genius".
Since the arrival of the PL and the influx of vast amounts of money, football has become more of a business than football. I think if your average player even in the Championship is earning 1.65 million per year then there is far less chance of ex pros wanting to become managers. Why would a multi-millionaire want the hassle? So the 'pot' of English candidates shrinks further.
The less well paid overseas pros may therefore see management as a way to prolong their earnings potential by going onto coaching. So their 'pot' of talent grows.
Sorry for the long reply btw!
I always assumed paisley was Scottish because well paisley is in Scotland
Paisley was Liverpools best manager by far, 3 European cups, 1 UAFA cuP, 6 League, titles plus more in 9 seasons. Clough won leagues and European cups with Forest and leagues with Derby, absolutely amazing achievement. Tony Barton winning the European cup with Villa. Our managers were absolutely dominating Europe up until the ban and thats a fact,
It’s because English managers didn’t travel the world I see different types of football most of the foreign managers have experience with different leagues and play styles
So the Nevilles should be flying in management
@@GamerFrisco fair point but he went out there and stunk up the gaff 😂😂
@@GamerFriscobut that helps my point a bit he wasn’t there for long before quitting so yet again he didn’t have that much experience
Gary Neville went to spain
@@denisako6493 for how long
Simon loved hiring homegrown managers doing his Crystal Palace ownership
Top LAD Proper Clobber 💯 Facts
And look where Palace ended up😂
Exactly 💯
English managers simply arent good enough. 😅
Absolutely English Managers are NOT ''good enough'' & will never be ''good enough'' when you praise the likes of Warnock, Pardew, Allardyce, Dyche, Slippy Gerard, Fat Frankie Lampard...
@@frankbrennan1619 except fat frank none of the others have had a chance at a big club bet your gran would get top 3 with man c
Slippy was at Aston Villa & they're huge. Bruce was at Newcastle playing dire stuff & Pardew too, Big Fat Obnoxious Sam did naff all at still ''big club'' but absolute crap Everton & same with Dyche & Warnock was at Sheffield United & although not huge, still big enough....
@@frankbrennan1619 yer but hardly man c
My Gran maybe, but you just wouldn't let ANY of the other mediocre rabble ANYWHERE near Manchester City.....
last elite English manager was the late, great Sir Bobby Robson. Since then, it's been crap. They haven't learnt and have been stereotuyped due to the likes of Allardyce, Bruce, etc.
Well Potter is a new breed. Don’t think Lampard and Gerrard will last long. Howe is the last hope but he won’t do better than Newcastle (when they upgrade).
Howard Wilkinson was the last to win the top prize and that was the old English 1st Division in 92. NO English manager has Ever won the Premier league. after 30 +years.
English people dont understand the game as much as they think, thats the problem.
I'm scottish and we have produced some of the best managers ever. Its a intelligence, personality and culture thing. Thats why the uefa courses are run in scotland. England have the best league because of the sky deal and money.
UEFA training courses are run in Wales. And there were as good English managers in the 1960s and 70s as there were Scottish. English clubs won European trophies long before the Premier League and Sky.
If that's true shouldn't Scottish football and national team be much better then it is
If it wasn't for SAF then this comment would be laughed at. Yet his man management was incredible, a pretty standard tactical coach but got the best out of his players individually.
Now in terms of Scotland having a different culture etc that is absolute bullshit, look at where your league is and how much it's standard is degressing 😂😂. It is a total irrelevance in today's game!
England and the greatest league on the planet forever living rent free in the farmers league's heads! 😂😂
We got the Sky deal and the money because our league is superior. Fergie retired 10 years ago, the best current Scottish manager is David Moyes 😂
@@RobertChase-ju9tyfergie brought a gun to a fist fight that’s what allowed him to be so successful, you could argue that him seeing that a gun would be useful in a fist fight was brilliance but a lot of fergies success came from being a bully.
Is it a coincidence the last one Sir Bobby Robson went to different countries? This surely helped improve him as a manager.
Also one thing I'll say about English managers since, how many have actually been at clubs that could get top 3? Only a few were ever good enough, but most never showed they were.
The thing to which makes it look worse to, is there comparing them to every non English manager. If you say there's been 10 German managers & 10 French for example, how many ever made top 3?
Potter, Lampard & Moyes I know he’s Scottish but! They’ve been given a go at the top jobs & they were awful. Gerrard was given a chance at villa too & got sacked. English managers like their favorites. Just look at Southgate.
Roy Hudson at Liverpool, Mark Hughes
@@marksoh6185Remember Hodgson at the England job 😂
@@marksoh6185Mark Hughes is Welsh not English
Because ex players the top ones don't want to drop down to the Championship or league one and prove theimselves, those cold winter nights travelling to Rotherham are very off putting. They think they have a right to jump straight into a big job. NO you don't.
That's right. But, if you were worth say 20 - 30 million and done your time on the pitch, would you? How many of the top foreign managers who've won the PL were elite, winning players?
@gillie-monger3394 that's why they fail, Gerrard and Lampard both failed because they couldn't take a decent job lower down so they bomb.
@@darkvision5648 Lampard managed in the Championship and Gerrard managed Liverpool U21's then Rangers. Both considered to be "starting down".
Again, How many of the top foreign managers who've won the PL were elite, winning players?
If I was a multi millionaire ex-pro I wouldn't want the hassle of managing at any level - low or top. and I think that's why the 'pot' of English managers is so very small. I mean even a Championship player never getting to the PL is on an average of 1.65 million quid a year.
Now take the average earnings playing abroad, with a few exceptions it is much much lower. So it makes sense for their ex-pro's to continue in football as coaches etc. So their talent pot is much bigger.
Why is the conversation about top 3 rather than top 4 which is normally the "benchmark"? Is it because Eddie Howe managed to finish 4th last year? 🤔
Harry Redknapp also finished 4th with spurs.
Frank lampard also took chelsea to 4th while they had a transfer ban and young squad who had never played in the top flight before. Frank isn’t the best manager but I think it’s very harsh that people overlook this part of his career
I think it’s just no Englishman wants the stress. Ex players would rather do media work now
Yup. Why would multi millionaire ex-players want the hassle? Much easier to sit in a warm studio with a few mates, get paid some beer money then get driven home.
@@gillie-monger3394 Chinese and Indian takeaways being delivered 😋 sound great to me
@@AgentLynch616 Hadn't thought of that. Even better.
Jim’s loving this!
And so he should, we keep hearing PL is best in the world but that’s nothing to do with English hahaha
There is a simpler answer they are not good enough. Sir Bobby was the best english manager prior to the last 20 years and it was no surprise he did well at Barcelona and taught Jose his trade. Not every outstanding player can make it as a manager just look at the Neville boys, some would say they were not that good as players.
This is not the answer given when browns aren’t represented in high profile positions so I know it can’t be the correct and is likely offered out of sexual jealousy.
The simple answer as to why no English man has won Premier league is that we are not good enough. The average English managers still play the game as we did in the 60s. The English concept of the game is to run hard, stop the opposition and pinch a goal. Take Sean Dyche as an example.
Yes, we know their not good enough. But that's not the question. The question is why are they not good enough?
@@thebillryan They must see the game different to foreign coaches. You only have to look at Gareth Southgate way of playing, England has world class players but he cannot create a system to make them successful.
An English man has never won the premier league😢😢
So?
Two Scotsmen have won it 14 times.
@@gillie-monger3394 😢
Refreshing to see people with a difference of opinion discuss without a thin skin and with a massive element of good humour. Love it lads!
Danny ‘ I don’t know what you’re shaking your head at?’ Murphy 😅😅😅
Some clubs are genuinely scarred by their experience with English managers. Liverpool went for Hodgson and as much as I respect the man, it wasn't a good fit and I think it scarred them enough to not go down that avenue again.
When Gareth Southgate is your most elite coach, you are in trouble 😅
Its not "our" league anymore its the worlds league. The best players tend to also be foreign and its been like that for a long time
Betting shops, golf courses and pubs Simon! Let’s have it right!
I bet English dudes will now become Eddie Howe fans in the section.. They'll start saying Eddie Howe 😂😂
Facts are facts tho 🤷
I would’ve bet my life on you being in the comments…I bet your eyes lit up when you saw the title of this video! 🔔end
How many top jobs in that particular time frame (where a top three finish is expected) were given to Englishman? Also, Danny makes a great point. As an evertonian I've always felt big Dunc and David Unnsworth should have been given the chance.
Imagine all foreign managers left at the end of the season and prem clubs said they only hiring English…who do you think would get the top jobs?
It wouldn’t take long to be the same as it is now. With The odd exception of Pep and probably Klopp that couldn’t be replaced
Wouldn’t even be able to name more than 4…
The standard of football probably won’t be good.
@@finfog4590 what can be done to change it? Wish I stuck to football coaching
@@StillLaughinEnt I’m not sure cos I think the foreign ownership of clubs has something to do with it - they prefer non-British. But, I’d say go abroad. It’s the same issue but there are jobs outside of England.
What a fascinating subject.. the media? Mentality? Very interesting.
Billy, your mother is waiting for your help with the cleaning. She’s asked you twice now it’s really not good enough. No ps5 for you tonight.
@@xBenjamin18 are you ok?
Top 3 to avoid having to include Eddie Howe last season, Harry redknapp 10 years ago off the top of my head. Click bait
Last English manager to win a cup was Harry Redknapp and last to win the top flight league was 1992. Shocking coaches.
Newcastle was 4th last season
I remember the big deal they made about Howe getting 4th, soon they'll say no English manager has finished 2nd or won the league since.
The broader point of English managers being behind the other big countries is still valid
England national team hadn’t won anything for 57 years, their players and coaches rarely go abroad…the ‘The English Way’ isn’t all that.
I’d love to see English managers managing foreign champions league teams against English teams, it’ll be amazing.
Bruce is the perfect example of what Simon is talking about players under him had to ask the ownership to train more. Some hired their own personal trainers.
This is such a weird and unnecessarily long way to say they're not good enough
They are being a bit short sighted, when Simon asked in regards to Serie A “are they the best league and do their clubs dominate in Europe?”…. Right now, no the Italian league has fallen but 15 years ago? 20 years ago? Absolutely Serie A was one of the top leagues on the planet with teams regularly dominating Europe and those teams were often times managed by ITALIANS which is exactly what this conversation is about. If the stat line was ‘in the last 10 seasons’ the easy answer would be because the global dominance of the Premier League, but just over 10 years ago it was La Lisa and Serie A that were the shining lights of football and still no English managers finished top 3.
5:18 who’s it embarrassing to 😂😂😂 the FA that’s it, it’s not even embarrassing to be fair it’s just a a pointless argument that Jim is bringing up again
Danny going on about qualifications, Postecoglou doesn't have one of these 'qualifications' to coach in Europe. That's probably why he is so good.
Ange is as qualified as one can be. He’s just from a different confederation.
English managers now have to learn 17 languages to manage in England now....
Southgate will change that
Eddie Howe will
Coops ❤ from Wales
Alan shearer hit the nail on the head after England got knocked out by Iceland in 2016, “we’re blinded by our premier league, we think it’s the best in the world for talent. It’s not. We’re completely reliant on foreign players and foreign managers, we’re not as good as we think we are”
Spot on mate
Brilliant this show
The same Frank Lampard that you kept espousing the virtues of based on nothing, meanwhile routinely slating Solskjaer who's stats were actually better
Only 6 in the Premier League this season, and 4 of those are at clubs currently in the bottom 6 so likely to reduce further depending on the nationality of the managers of the promoted clubs next season. Also, Roy Hodson is likely to retire again at the end of the season, so you could easily be looking at only 3 or 4 English managers next season.
6/20 isn’t that bad, not far off a third. It’s the best league in a world wide sport so the potential talent pool is huge.
Are any of the biggest clubs in England owned by English people? Simon is right. The English PL is just geographical thing run by foreigners.
The game has moved on from winning on aggression and long balls and has moved on to become more of a technical science foreign coaches are more detailed in approach in regards to playing style.
Stop asking this question to English Pundits. You all not good enough, mate!!!
7:03 Succession planning is also known as the bootroom
@talksport when i started following liverpool at the time, Gerard Houllier was recruited as the successor to Roy Evans, abolishing the bootroom tradition
The success of arsene wenger was the catalyst, but liverpool was next
I wish simon asked Danny what he thought of Liverpool's choice at time
he himself was a youngster playing alongside stevie g; coincidentally a bootroom candidate
Spot on again Simon
because they don't get the opportunity, simple (well, the good ones don't).
Jurgen Klopp did well with Mainz so Dortmund took a chance on him.
Carlo Ancelotti did well at Reggiana and Parma, prompting Juventus to take a chance.
Diego Simeone impressed at Catania and Racing club - in came Atletico.
Jose Mourinho had to ply his trade at Union de Leira before Porto came in.
Eddie Howe got Bournemouth from the depths of league two before he got a chance anywhere and even then it was at Newcastle who miraculously finished 4th last season.
Graham Potter had to do well at three clubs before getting his big break - sadly for him it was the dysfunctional Chelsea.
Sam Allardyce had to qualify Bolton for Europe in order to get a chance elsewhere and it was at a Newcastle side in decline.
Sean Dyche's only opportunity since Burnley has been the absolute nightmare that is Everton right now.
Then you get Lampard - granted not the best opportunities - but what has he done to earn one? Gerrard getting an opportunity at a progressive Villa side (and squandering it).
The only English managers that get some kind of opportunities are those that had a great playing career, NOT a great managerial career
Saying Southgate is the right man cus he took us to a semi and final in how long is NOT good enough. All you need to do is add context went 1-0 up to Croatia sit back and loose. 2 years later the exact same thing happened in a home final. Did he learn? No he did the EXACT same thing. It’s criminal he’s the manager
The best 2 English managers in the last 20 years was Bobby Robson and Roy Hodgeson. The criticism they got was way over the top
Brendan rogers..
@@ad6892not English 😂😂
Venables was better than Hodgson.
@@lukelocks9083 Venables is a good shout. I forgot about him
@@Severloh1944 You're welcome.
It’s not just coaches .. even the players ..
From an English man that is a horrible stat
i'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact most of the players are not english
As a coach from The Isle of Man for me to do my UEFA badges I'd have to go to England. Spain and Germany offer better courses and are longer than the English courses, most British coaches have done their badges through the Wales FA, there's a reason why clubs look at German and Spanish coaches.
The best players & managers in the premiership,sadly we have got good managers here
In fairness.. Man Utd and Arsenal both had long term managers in Ferguson and Wenger, so that was 2 big clubs tied up.
That then leaves you with Chelsea and Liverpool, when Chelsea got the money around 2003, they didn’t appoint an English manager until 2019!
So that’s 3 top clubs in England who were all tied down with foreign managers.
Liverpool had Houllier for 6 years followed by Benítez for 6 years and then Hodgson got the job.
Man City once they got the money only chose foreign managers as well and they’ve been tied down with Pep for quite some time now.
So it’s hardly surprising to see an English manager not in Top 3 when they weren’t even given a chance. Granted in recent years they HAVE been given a chance.. Potter, Lampard and Howe for example.. But it hasn’t always been like that.
Howe is easily the best English manager we have in this country. Was superb at Bournemouth and is going an incredible job at Newcastle as well.
How many English managers have had the opportunity to manage the top 6 teams compared to foreign managers?
the myopia is amazing, Italy had Inter in the champions league final only beaten by a team owned by a country. The Premier league has all the money and will choose whatever it wants to win regardless of nationality. English coaches will succeed through oppotunism rather than talent. Potter had a chance but its gone now probably forever, Dyche, Moyes will never get top 4 jobs and who are the coaches to step up there really arent many because the money dictates you cant take chances on coaches who are unproven at the top level. It would probably be easier for an English coach to go abroad manage a team in top 4 leagues do well and then get a job at a top 4 club because it rarely happens organically
Eddie Howe would have if man United didn’t pay the refs
LoL..he will be fired at the end of the season
I think football clubs should be recruiting from elite universities. Try to get leaders that will be titans of industry to consider going into management. So much of football is about systems, nutrition, training methods. You need someone with hard work ethic and leadership and inspirational. The football tactics can be learnt
That's the football director or CEO route .. it'll be very difficult to get none football managers because they can't see the game like football managers e.g make adjustments mid game realise when and where u are vulnerable etc etc you are effectively talking about the position of football director who takes control of off pitch duties and then employ a head coach for football duties basically manage the manager which a lot of clubs already do
Shortest Football joke :Good English coach
Name any English manger finishing first in any country for the last 30 yrs? One guy did it in early 90s in Portugal.
Steve McClaren,Twente,Netherlands,2010
Scotland England and Wales (Steve Cooper)
Not mentioning _Jürgen Klopp_ in that same breath is a glaring omission. He has earned that level of respect.
@3:13 Simon speaking truth
The best clubs can apppint anyone they like, they have the best chance to be at the top and they havent appointed British coaches as they dont rate them. The players are also very rich now so dont need to work adter playing.
Here we go now we are gonna get into this.... long story short they are all garbish 😂😂💯
Brendon Rogers,Liverpool
Chelsea had Graham Rodger’s and he SCREWED up big time!
@bigheadedm I blame Brendan Potter myself 🤷
@@billybobthornton9668 🤣🤣🤣Graham Potter!
Pep Guardiola was Barca reserve team coach , the Barca hierarchy took a chance and gave him the top job , it worked out well , but he did have Messi
He also got rid of Ronaldinho and Deco and was called mad at the time. People said Xavi and Iniesta couldn't play together. Pep changed it all. I accept that he had a world-class squad at his disposal, though.
@@nightman_cometh9367that finished 3rd in a 2 team league before he took over. The reason he got the job at all was because they were a mess.
Didn't Eddie Howe finished in top four last season?
Sshhh! That's not the Jock narrative here. So sshhh. 🤫
@@gillie-monger3394the point was top three not top four dumpling and jock narrative lol ? It’s a fact just because you don’t like facing it doesn’t make it false, Simon is English and said it how it is so don’t come out with nonsense.
Howe is easily best English manager about atm
Because English managers are not THAT guy. Simple as
That's because the Foreign Managers and Foreign Players help Transform the Premier League on a weekly, monthly, annual basis.
When Southgate leaves the England job I'm certain that Liverpool or Man City will get rid of Klopp or Pep and install him as manager, he's a dead cert to win lots of trophies so we just have to wait.
I suspect Eddie Howe might change that.
As someone who has managed a football team, the problem is actually the FA. Coaching courses are incredibly expensive and highly geared to allowing basically only ex-footballers to become coaches in the main. It's just ridiculous, it's also why you won't see an Asian manager in our lifetimes, because none of them are footballers. So what are you left with? Idiots like Gerrard and Lampard fast tracked into jobs because they 'done the badges' when just listening to them speak would have told you all you needed to know about their acumen for actually managing people.
Mike Bassett: England Manager ;-)
Howard Wilkinson, leeds united
And if we push that to the top four?
All the greatest managers have never kicked a ball, but are on TH-cam telling how it should be done.
Redknapp got close with Tottenham
You had guys like Allardyce pocketing millions for turning up for work on a Thursday. Stealing a living.
Simple, English managers are just not good enough. If Southgate is so good let him manage Manchester United and you'll see what happens.
I see parallels to the players situation. The top teams just poach off other teams that have good players. They also poach managers that have a good record. Where can you get that record? Well Italy, Spain etc. You can't get it in the Championship, that doesn't count. The only way an English manager can get it is to bring a team up from the Championship and do well in the Premiership, like Howe, Potter etc.
Lol. English managers have it far easier than anyone else.
At one point, italian football was the biggest, best with the most money. They've always had the best managers. The issue is with the English.
How did English clubs completely dominate Europe in the 70s and 80s (up until the ban) without any continental coaches or players?
The question is how many English managers have been given the opportunity to manage a top club in the last 20 years?
Top 3 to suit this narrative 🙄
The British think it is the English players that make the English Premier League so great. It the Foreign... players and managers that make it as exciting as it is... just watch England play....
Eddie almost and should've finished 3rd last season
Its because kids in england used to be hardworking and tough natured (post war Britain), now most kids just play video games and are so sheltered - less grit / determination and motivation to get better and change. Playing toget away from a life in the coal mines is different from the motivation to get away from a life playing playstation. These players then had theyough character to go on and manage - bob paisley, joe fagen, clough, etc…
How much has Ajax and the Netherlands won recently?
Pep and Klopp have been long time here, they can get British passport, problem solved, lol
Steve Cooper is Welsh Simon
This is literally a nothing debate. Nobody is saying "We don't want a manager to make us better...but only if he's English". This is literally just trying to rile up a few old fashioned views with no substance behind the argument.
They don't want quotas for English managers but I wonder why they think football broadcasting is now bombarded with females. Do they think they are there on merit?
There not good enough simple as villa went spanish with emery best decision weve made in the past 40 years
Crazy thought here…maybe if it’s embarrassing….it’s because it should be embarrassing?
Sir Bobby and Roy Hodgson managed top clubs abroad.
They opened their minds and were open to new things and different ways of working.
They didn't have the misplaced arrogance of a Big Sam or Steve Bruce.
David Moyes looks like he learned something when in Spain because he's came back a far better manager.
Simons got a point, get off the golf course ffs! And learn something useful.