Q&A #7: Obsolete Guns, Coffee Grinder Stocks, and More!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
  • / forgottenweapons
    Another set of questions from my awesome Patreon contributors!
    ATF C&R & NFA Exemption list (through 2007): www.atf.gov/files/publication...
    List update for 2008-2014: www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/cur...
    0:43 - Guns flexing in slow motion
    3:41 - Destructives Devices - the guns vs the ammo
    9:54 - What makes some stocked pistols exempt from the NFA?
    14:41 - Unusual things build into rifle stocks
    17:36 - Best rifle/pistol that never was (sort of)
    19:33 - Pronouncing the word "Walther"
    20:55 - Submachine guns and Advance Primer Ignition (API)
    23:53 - Are we at a firearms development plateau?
    26:04 - Why don't we see higher velocity bullets?
    29:12 - How do I do my research?
    33:53 - Are submachine guns obsolete?
    36:58 - Most obsolete gun at the time of its introduction
    38:50 - Intermediate rounds as alternatives to 5.56 NATO
    Cool Forgotten Weapons Merch! shop.bbtv.com/collections/forg...

ความคิดเห็น • 589

  • @jaungiga
    @jaungiga 7 ปีที่แล้ว +203

    Oh, man, there's nothing more rewarding than coming home from work to sit on my PPSh-41 and have a freshly Sharps Carbine-ground coffee whilst listening to the radio on my Winchester M70

    • @01superduty89
      @01superduty89 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Underrated and under appreciated comment.

    • @dewayneweaver5782
      @dewayneweaver5782 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      You are a lucky man indeed, someone needs to develop a weapon with all three features and just add a bottle and can opener.

    • @jaungiga
      @jaungiga 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@dewayneweaver5782 I think we can solve both problems by adding a bayonet in the form of those dollar store bowie knives: they include a bottle opener in the spine of the blade and they can be used as a can opener. Additionally, a bayonet is always useful for repelling those pesky visitors that disturb your well earn rest after a long day of work

    • @abstractapproach634
      @abstractapproach634 ปีที่แล้ว

      Pssssh carbine coffee is for the morning, after work you pop a beer open with your IMI Galil grip!

    • @zachariassuurholmamide6442
      @zachariassuurholmamide6442 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      say my name

  • @SacoreyRugger
    @SacoreyRugger 7 ปีที่แล้ว +180

    50 years from now, "I am Ian with forgotten weapons and today we will be looking at this prototype energy rifle"

    • @beargillium2369
      @beargillium2369 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Laser rifles are pretty much here

    • @hunters36forgingwoodworkin73
      @hunters36forgingwoodworkin73 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Tune in next week for a prototype bolt gun.

    • @joeysimunds6352
      @joeysimunds6352 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hopefully not 50, and likely Microwave or Rail

    • @dustinwolfe9591
      @dustinwolfe9591 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Idk man, still waiting for my flying car

    • @nopushbutton
      @nopushbutton 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@joeysimunds6352 maybe. in general, though, railguns are more suitable for larger, fixed platforms because not only do they suck a ridiculous amount of power, they more efficiently transfer the backwards energy to the gun (and therefore shooter) than conventional firearms, since are no gases to transfer it to.
      Therefore, you get less muzzle energy (and therefore less stopping power) for the same amount of recoil, vs. a conventional gun.
      Microwave weapons, though, are pretty much already here; all they need is the use case for miniaturization, when it comes to man-portable (and fireable) systems.
      Electrolasers, I think, are in the same boat - there just needs to be a big contract for them to be developed into something practical.
      Plasma weapons have similar limitations to railguns, plus a few other problems stopping them, so they're probably a bit further off.
      Electrothermal-chemical guns are already being developed for tanks, and I suspect if the military decides it wants it, that tech could serve in anti-material rifles in the near future.
      Directed radio frequency weapons (which are being developed for sixth-generation fighter aircraft already) seem like they'd have a use case in the anti-drone role, so I wouldn't be surprised to see those in the near future.

  • @JonatasAdoM
    @JonatasAdoM 7 ปีที่แล้ว +72

    Guns like swords do flex, it's the way of life and EVERYTHING either flexes or breaks

  • @TristanMorrow
    @TristanMorrow 7 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Don't forget the most famous example of something built into the stock of a rifle:
    the Official Red Ryder carbine-action two-hundred-shot range-model air-rifle with a compass in the stock and the thing that tells time.
    (eye patch not included)

  • @AKhellbindeR
    @AKhellbindeR 7 ปีที่แล้ว +75

    I have no idea why i've been subbed to this channel for years, and watch every video. Guns are illegal where im from, I dont really know anything about them outside games and movies, but I find it facinating listening to Ian talking about them with such passion.

    • @cfytcf
      @cfytcf 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Same here, I like seeing things broken down with explanations of the technical, design, and bureaucratic reasons why things are the way they are.

    • @Bearthedancingman
      @Bearthedancingman 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I think fascination with history and historical devices is a pretty good reason to enjoy this channel. And guns are so incredibly intricate and fascinating.

    • @estarriol7
      @estarriol7 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      History, in general, is fascinating. Military history is particularly fascinating. And any presenter can enhance or detract from the interest of their topic via their presentation - and Ian is a very good presenter. It's a great mix.

    • @bernatkun8069
      @bernatkun8069 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Bearthedancingman +Ian has a soothing voice

    • @abstractapproach634
      @abstractapproach634 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Move to freedomland, we need gun advocates!

  • @ISemiI
    @ISemiI 7 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    Man.
    I wish I had an RSC I could lean against my bookshelf.

  • @kalleguld
    @kalleguld 7 ปีที่แล้ว +142

    I want a rifle with a kitchen sink in the stock

    • @_yellow
      @_yellow 7 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      I want a toothbrush that can fire 5mm caseless ammunition.

    • @_yellow
      @_yellow 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Wy Vern Extended Glock drum mags with tripple extentions.

    • @_yellow
      @_yellow 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Wy Vern I don't know, maybe. To the drawing board!

    • @Vicus_of_Utrecht
      @Vicus_of_Utrecht 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Every comment: gold

    • @_yellow
      @_yellow 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Vicus Utrecht Speaking of gold, I want my toothbrush to be gold plated.

  • @drmaudio
    @drmaudio 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    For the viewer that asked about fast powders, if you meant a faster burn rate, there is a counterintuitive thing that happens where the fastest projectile velocity is generally achieved by the slowest powder that can be used and still be mostly consumed by the time the bullet exits the barrel. This is because the limiting factor in a given gun is pressure. The faster powder will reach maximum pressure sooner, and then drop off. As such, the push will be of the same intensity, but lower duration, resulting in lower projectile velocity.

  • @xidarian
    @xidarian 7 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    If you get a coffee grinder sharps you should make yourself a cup of coffee with it in the video.

  • @classifiedad1
    @classifiedad1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Don't forget the Galil has a bottle opener built in the forend.

  • @Bornstellare
    @Bornstellare 7 ปีที่แล้ว +262

    Why is Ian wearing normal clothes?

    • @ForgottenWeapons
      @ForgottenWeapons  7 ปีที่แล้ว +309

      It's a disguise.

    • @HerrMueller93
      @HerrMueller93 7 ปีที่แล้ว +61

      trying to hide from the atf

    • @TheWhedgit
      @TheWhedgit 7 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      With that Def Con shirt he will just get another alphabet agency looking for him lol

    • @alifi5475
      @alifi5475 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Nicholas Wilson I know right! It's like he thinks he can bring himself down to the level of us humans or something. lol

    • @JohnSmith-qy2cu
      @JohnSmith-qy2cu 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Forgotten Weapons Ian stole my shoes...

  • @XanderTuron
    @XanderTuron 7 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Obviously the the next development in firearms technology is going to be the phased plasma pulse rifle (40 watt range). On a slightly more serious note, if Gauss weapons (railguns, coilguns, and other such magnetic acceleration based weapons) become more practical, it would be interesting to see if they could be miniaturized enough to be practical as a man portable weapon.

    • @michaelf.2449
      @michaelf.2449 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I know this is a super old post, But honestly I think we could if we could fix the energy density issue that electronics in general are having

    • @XanderTuron
      @XanderTuron 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@michaelf.2449 Totally; energy density is a major road block for a lot of fun things.

    • @oklahomahank2378
      @oklahomahank2378 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Isn’t there a Star Trek episode where the Borg have countered their phasers and they have the replicator make them shotguns?

  • @SecuR0M
    @SecuR0M 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Speaking of radios in rifles: there was the Ryan Model 529 rifle transceiver built for ARPA's Project Agile in the 1960s. It fit inside the M16 stock and was supposed to be used in counter-insurgency like Vietnam (although the radio pre-dates combat operations in Vietnam). It used the barrel as the antenna (and an aerial) and had push-to-talk function, and could talk to AN/PRC-25 as well as itself.

  • @JerryEricsson
    @JerryEricsson 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Thanks a million for your videos. I have been a gun "nut" since the first time my father took me out with his old Remington Target Jr. .22LR rifle and let me shoot it at a tin can. I must have been 4 or 5 at the time, and could hardly hold that heavy little rifle, in fact dad had to help me hold it up. I began reading gun magazines when I could afford them the result of mowing lawns, cleaning snow from sidewalks, and working for my Uncle on his farm every summer for 5 dollars a day, room and board. Purchased my first pistol from a "Carney" who was passing through town, it was a sawed off single shot lever action rifle cut off to about 12 inches, and illegal as hell even back then. I shot it until the firing pin finally broke. I liked it because it resembled those old flintlock pistols carried by pirates, since it had no sights, I could hardly hit anything with it but still, just shooting it was a thrill. My next gun was a semi-auto .22 that my uncle gave me when he came up sort on wages one week, that was a great little gun despite is't tenancy to occasionally pop off two or three rounds then jam. Well the list goes on, as did my love for the gun, and for the next 50 years or so, I carried, repaired, and even built my own guns. That said, your show challenge my knowledge and add to it. I maintain that we can remain young so long as we never stop learning, and these shows indeed help me stay my young 65 years of age. Please keep up the wonderful work, and I assure you, I will keep up my watching of them.

  • @richardbrowncloak1263
    @richardbrowncloak1263 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    One thing a submachine gun does do better: They suppress better. If you want a really quiet, functional AR-15 you need an adjustable gas port and subsonic ammo. Also, do YOU want to go into battle with a round that main mechanism for inflicting damage is its' high velocity and then neuter that velocity? A .45 ACP submachine gun w/ a suppressor can use standard ammo, inflict great damage (from mass, not velocity) and be really quiet.

    • @Davidautofull
      @Davidautofull 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      i didnt see or hear of much suppression of the enemy in Iraq or Afgan town at 4,5,600 yard ranges.

    • @ottopartz1
      @ottopartz1 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I've heard a 45acp fired through a fresh suppressor and it was still pretty darn loud all considered.

  • @Andy47357
    @Andy47357 7 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    someone needs to petition the atf that welrods and maxim silencer should be exempt from the nfa because how old and rare they are and that people buying them are collectors

    • @sillygoose210_6
      @sillygoose210_6 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Andy47357 you should

    • @Jesses001
      @Jesses001 7 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      No we should destroy the NFA in its entirety and disband the BATFE. The NFA and Amendment was not passed anyway. It was funny. They did a vote, lost, ran out of time, and then just...put it in as law anyway, ha.

    • @kasperjam
      @kasperjam 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Jesse Sisolack AMEN!!!

  • @keikuru1
    @keikuru1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I really appreciate that you label in the description when you answer certain questions Ian. (:

    • @juangreyson3660
      @juangreyson3660 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I didn't notice that,thanks for telling me.

  • @edb27
    @edb27 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The coffee grinder was added because soldiers were using the but stock of their rifles to crush coffee. The stocks of the rifles were cracking so they added a coffee grinder to the stock.

    • @rooseveltbrentwood9654
      @rooseveltbrentwood9654 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Elias Blakely wow the same story as the galil, it has a bottle opener because the soldiers were using their magazines as bottle openers and damaging them.

  • @LeeFerikson
    @LeeFerikson 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'd say that the ultra-compact sub machine guns that fire the armour piercing higher velocity pistol cartridges in the style of the HK 4.6 and FN 5.7 is the final evolution of that classification and are still relevant.
    The MP7 is the best example of this, as it is considerably smaller and lighter than say an M4. I know that the Bundeswher armour crewmen use it as their PDW, and I believe also some of their anti-tank infantry prefer it to carrying a rifle. I've seen pictures of various counter terrorist units using them as sidearms, as it can be hip-holstered fairly comfortably, and of course acts as a much more useful weapon than a pistol. Because it can be hip holstered like this, I imagine that there are other roles it could be used to infantry in. For example, GPMGs are not exactly nice to shoulder fire, and the infantry carrying these weapons are usually issued pistols for self defense. Carrying both a carbine and a GPMG is just too heavy. A submachine gun like the MP7 can close the gap of "too far for a pistol, not practical for a big old GPMG"

  • @frankemcgillivray6695
    @frankemcgillivray6695 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    As a history buff, I just appreciate these Q&A's so much. Thanks Ian.

  • @THEzTROLLlz
    @THEzTROLLlz 7 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    "Nobody's gonna go rob a 7/11 with it"

    • @littlebigheroman
      @littlebigheroman 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      famous last words of a 7/11 cashier

    • @_ArsNova
      @_ArsNova 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      If you can't rob a 7/11 with it, it's not a firearm.

  • @M00shimaroo
    @M00shimaroo 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Ian says theres a plateau in Firearms Development, meanwhile I'm waiting for the G11 generation 2. Caseless munitions is the next big thing? Who thinks so?

  • @barnabyhiles7105
    @barnabyhiles7105 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Loved this video. Ian, you have a genius for successfully explaining the complex in a simple manner. Bravo.

  • @WildBillCox13
    @WildBillCox13 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Edifying and interesting to a degree seldom approached by youtube videos.
    Great work, Ian!
    And, remember, even fans who can't afford Patreon still appreciate your expertise.

  • @warmachine_1396
    @warmachine_1396 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    My favorite video ever! Great job Ian. A lot of interesting topics covered in one video!

  • @daktari
    @daktari 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    One of the issues of short rifles/carbines in police use is still overpenetration.
    Most LE services still use SMGs because the smaller, lower-powered rounds will be less risky when you consider collateral damage. They'll stop in the target (or not far from it) and usually won't go through walls, car doors, etc, reducing the risk of harming a non-visible civilian that finds him/herself in the line of fire.

  • @RetroARguy
    @RetroARguy 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    IMHO, the AR18 is probably the greatest rifle that never was. Most of the issues were fairly minor, generally related to a fragile pivot or poorly heat treated trigger parts. If it's intended market hadn't been strangled out by NATO and Soviet subsidies it probably would have been straightened out pretty shortly had it ever had a major contract instead of piecemeal civilian sales. It's pretty heavy influence on modern service rifles is probably pretty indicative of this.

  • @Chayonray
    @Chayonray 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fascinating and very informative. Thank you very much sir. Being a Mechanical Engineer, I especially liked your explanation of the limitations of hypervelocity rounds and the distinction between obsolete and obsolescent. 👍🏾👍🏾

  • @mspaint1011
    @mspaint1011 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    33:51 wow that thunder sound made the video have a really comfortable mood

  • @ericswain70
    @ericswain70 7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Ian's Chair of Wisdom

  • @davo171
    @davo171 7 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    Radio's in rifle stocks?
    Would the barrel/receiver be effective as an antenna?
    I'd put one in a mexican mauser, so I could be on a mexican radio.
    Twould be technically accurate.

    • @rooseveltbrentwood9654
      @rooseveltbrentwood9654 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      davo171 thanks now if got that 80s song stuck in my head. mexican raaaaaadio!

    • @DJstarrfish
      @DJstarrfish 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'd be concerned that recoil would break some of the transistors/capacitors in the radio

  • @BMack37
    @BMack37 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was a very good video, I hope you do more of this format.

  • @ComiCBoY000
    @ComiCBoY000 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice to see you finally got your Fusil Automatique Modèle 1917.

  • @tacticalmanatee
    @tacticalmanatee 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I've spoken with some people involved in the military LSAT trials and they seem pretty excited about the telescoping-cased ammunition. Essentially it's a polymer case with the bullet and powder both encased by it, making it lighter and shorter than compatible metallic-cased ammo. It's a fairly small and incremental change but it'd make ammo lighter, more compact, and significantly cheaper (the polymer cases cost much less than brass or even steel). The guys I talked to seem to think it will hit the civilian market very soon, and it is essentially already comparable with existing systems (so you can keep the existing popular designs) while offering room for future weapons development to really take advantage of telescoping-cased ammunition.
    There are also some newer projects trying to use case-less ammo but I think that's pretty much a dead end with current materials technology.

  • @notpulverman9660
    @notpulverman9660 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    An intermediate rifle can't compete with a sub gun for size when you consider that sub guns can be barely inches longer than actual handguns.
    A 3 or 4 inch barrel is realistic on a sub gun, but blast would be intolerable in rifle form, plus the receiver would need to be longer.

  • @GinSoakedBoy
    @GinSoakedBoy 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good stuff and informative as always, Ian.

  • @burtdanams4426
    @burtdanams4426 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I like the framing of this video haha. I think the wall of books, the gun, the chair make you look awesome

  • @prjndigo
    @prjndigo 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    in the example given on API the powder charge also is rocked back against the bolt then spreads forward, it gives a better flash-over in the charge.

    • @thekraken1173
      @thekraken1173 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I know this is a 7 year old comment but what does “better flash-over in the charge” mean?

  • @ferongr
    @ferongr 7 ปีที่แล้ว +96

    I'm not American but from just reading it, the second amendment obviously doesn't say anything about "bearing arms" for sporting purposes. How can the government limit ownership of guns based on such a "purpose"?

    • @kylec.6818
      @kylec.6818 7 ปีที่แล้ว +45

      I am an American and I can say that the Second Amendment is absolutely not designed only so that we can have fun. the Second Amendment was written so that we would have the means to fight a tyrannical government if we ever needed to. the problem is you get politicians that think they know what's best for us and pass laws on an uninformed public. You'll notice that the American Constitution does not say anything about who can have what weapons . Our founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment so that we could hane the means to defend ourselves against the very government that would take away our freedom or our ability to overthrow it.

    • @kylec.6818
      @kylec.6818 7 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      Also we have entire generations of people that are more concerned with being comfortable than free!

    • @zendell37
      @zendell37 7 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      What Kyle said was SPOT ON! There are plenty of people that live in a world that only exists when they are in it. They don't think anywhere outside of themselves. That has an astoundingly negative affect on the rights of others, especially in the firearms world.

    • @joshhutchins7968
      @joshhutchins7968 7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      And from your comment I can already tell you that you are smarter than most politicians here. What you said is true, but we have let them do just that.

    • @josephenders1893
      @josephenders1893 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Practically none of the NFA guns have any legitimate use for civilians besides fun. No one is losing any basic rights or trying to be oppressed by a tyrannical government. Also, as far as I know, you're just required to register them, have appropriate licenses/documentation, and pay the tax.

  • @seanjoseph8637
    @seanjoseph8637 7 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Great show.
    The next innovation will be sharks with frikken laser beams on their heads!

    • @oklahomahank2378
      @oklahomahank2378 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      World of Warcraft. The gnomes do it.

  • @brucebaxter6923
    @brucebaxter6923 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ian, it was interesting you mentioned using the momentum of the bolt twice.
    I was thinking about an open bolt design that had a light boltface/extractor and a heavy Spring between the face and body.
    The idea was to have a simple blowback on a high powered cartridge that used the bolt momentum and Spring pressure to keep the boltface closed during the high pressure phase/delay

    • @ForgottenWeapons
      @ForgottenWeapons  7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      If the bolt body is light and the spring is strong, it will accelerate the whole assembly rearward without the spring compressing significantly.

    • @rileypowell5354
      @rileypowell5354 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      buy a benelli, thats exactly what their inertia guns do. its just a blowback delayed by a rotating bolt.

    • @brucebaxter6923
      @brucebaxter6923 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Forgotten Weapons
      Yes, that would be a problem.
      The bolt body would still have to have considerable mass, but less than a solid bolt with simple blowback.

  • @mutejosh
    @mutejosh 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great Q&A!

  • @masaharumorimoto4761
    @masaharumorimoto4761 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow, your explanation of research just helped me with college, I am going to do my essays with a different mindset now. (you make me want to do a firearms degree of some description!) Much love!

    • @JerryEricsson
      @JerryEricsson 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I worked with a couple of Gunsmiths who graduated from Yavapai College in Arizona. Both were extremely good smiths, one build his own computerized cut riffling and deep drilling machines so he could build target barrels to order, the other was a general smith who jumped in and helped the other so he could use his machinery after hours. I simply hung around and did some polishing and finishing on rifles as well as build a few of my own rifles for practice. I fell in love with Arizona several years ago, before the Chinese attack of the Virus when my wonderful wife and I began traveling in our used RV down there from South Dakota for the winter months when it was comfortable living down there and very cold and snowy here. Of course the COVID ended that, then I lost my wonderful wife to Cancer after being married for 51 years.

  • @stephenbritton9297
    @stephenbritton9297 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think the .30 carbine is an un-recognized contender for use as a PDW cartridge. Especially if someone spends some time updating the bullet and the powder loading.

  • @egoncasteel
    @egoncasteel 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If possible I would enjoy seeing a video on reloading gear, and/or black powder accessories like wacky measuring powder horns and primer carriers.

  • @ChewbacaTW
    @ChewbacaTW 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    thanks for the Q/A Ian.

  • @josuelservin2409
    @josuelservin2409 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks to the 1805 patrons who support the show and to Ian who make this great effort of historic documentation. Really guys you are amazing.

  • @chr821
    @chr821 6 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Submachineguns have a very important benefit I think is worth mentioning: less colleteral damage.
    Police forces still use them, because if you enter a building and need to shoot at someone, they normally dont want to kill someone behind three drywalls. And in military use for example denfendig shipcrews it would be quite a shame to damage your own explensive equipment.
    And to be honest....yes, bodyarmor is a thing. But I bet everyone who is hit by a few 9mm rounds counts as "disabled".

  • @Totenschaedel98
    @Totenschaedel98 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    German V's are pronounced like an English F. So Volkswagen becomes Folksvagen. Keep up the good work, Ian.

  • @rockhardin4829
    @rockhardin4829 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    @ian how noble! The preservation of knowledge is very important thank you for your work sir

  • @benreese7602
    @benreese7602 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Mr JD Jones of ssk Industries has multiple NFA exemptions for some of his cartridges like the 950 JDJ. same with things like the 600, 585, and 700 nitro express rounds.

  • @konstantin.v
    @konstantin.v 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How about creating a dedicated Q&A playlist on this channel? I like very much this format, with you talking about various gun related stuff for up to an hour, but without a playlist it's not very convenient to keep track of the new such videos coming (and to make sure you've seen every one that came before). Thanks!

  • @jimkey920
    @jimkey920 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting report. Thanks, Ian.

  • @Bert2368
    @Bert2368 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    @26:04, higher velocity?
    When I got into 6.5-284 NORMA, I learned about the "sweet spot' in velocity, throat erosion and pressure vs. barrel life the hard way.
    I love to tinker, hand load, play with components & OAL of cartridges, obsessively working to wring the last bit of accuracy out of a rifle. Across that threshold, you may work for hours over months of your free time, finally get everything dialed in- And 500 rounds later? Time to get your next new barrel fitted and start over.
    They do say life is all about the journey, not the destination. It still kind of sucks.
    So, maybe drop back to 6.5 Creedmore or 6.5X55 Swede and enjoy actually shooting the best combo?
    The last iteration of the 1,000m capable 6.5X284 gets racked, to mostly be used for deer season in areas requiring 300m to 500m shots (very occasionally) while stand hunting over soybean fields...

  • @Jarejander69
    @Jarejander69 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    FALs do it, G3 do it,
    AKs, ARs and everything do it,
    let's do it,
    let's fall it love!

  • @clarkogles3289
    @clarkogles3289 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I never knew how great of an idea API was... kewl

  • @kylef634
    @kylef634 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That's a pretty killer library...

  • @Evirthewarrior
    @Evirthewarrior 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    The only thing I can think that SMGs do better than a short carbine would be subsonic ammo with a suppressor.

    • @mossbergmaniac1947
      @mossbergmaniac1947 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      There's stuff like .300 blackout which kind of negates that advantage. I

    • @OriginalBongoliath
      @OriginalBongoliath 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I can only think of cheaper ammo costs.

    • @mossbergmaniac1947
      @mossbergmaniac1947 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Good point, although you're probably going to be shooting an SMG mostly in full auto and a Carbine Semi Automatically. Probably wouldn't take to long to blow through that cost per round advantage.

    • @Marvin.Runyon
      @Marvin.Runyon 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Even with regular ammo. I saw a video with a SWAT officer explaining how a suppressed 9mm MP5 was advantageous in some situations over even a suppressed 5.56, because the latter is still quite loud in a confined space compared to the suppressed pistol round. I don't know that he considered .300 blackout in his opinion.

    • @mossbergmaniac1947
      @mossbergmaniac1947 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      .300 blackout is pretty awesome surpressed, that's what it was made for.

  • @MrIamtheone2
    @MrIamtheone2 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Finally got your RSC. Good video Ian :)

  • @drmaudio
    @drmaudio 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I totally want a coffee grinder in my rifle stock. That is an accessory worth it's weight.

  • @AlexCP2394
    @AlexCP2394 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Case-less ammo I think is the next thing. Removing the extraction and ejection components of the firing cycle will radically change firearm design. I know it's been tried before but if a cheap and effective enough solution were employed there would be a paradigm shift I think.

    • @sawyernorthrop4078
      @sawyernorthrop4078 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The problem is you still need to be able to eject a bad cartridge, so you still need an ejection port. Also, you tend to lose power because you're sacrificing power for structural integrity in the propellent. But neither of these problems are insurmountable.

    • @antitankautism8052
      @antitankautism8052 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@sawyernorthrop4078 building on what you said, another unintended benefit of cased ammunition comes from The fact that when the case is ejected, so too is a lot of the residual heat present from firing the round. The brass holds a lot of that heat and is expelled drop. The system during cycling.
      A big issue the G11 had was proper heat expulsion. Given that entire detonation of the ammunition was internal, that was a lot of built up heat without an efficient way to dissipate it. Caseless ammo is fighting an uphill battle for sure.

    • @dewayneweaver5782
      @dewayneweaver5782 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Case-less ammo ignited by a laser. No slide, No ejector, No firing pin.

    • @thekraken1173
      @thekraken1173 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Nah I don’t think we need automatic muskets.

  • @takogonikanetniukogo
    @takogonikanetniukogo 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks, Ian, that was very informative.
    Can you please get Carl's opinion on last question about alternative intermediate cartridges?

  • @tylorhughes4484
    @tylorhughes4484 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love my 5.45 kalash. love the videos by the way Ian firearms history is definitely fascinating to me, I particularly liked the folding stock luger you showed. kinda got my gears turning on how a stock like that would do today. (not quite in the pistol area but more like a carbine)

  • @elitearbor
    @elitearbor 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    "I don't know that there's really anything that you could do with a SMG that you couldn't do equally well with a small carbine..."
    Silence it and still be able to use off-the-shelf ammunition widely available. That's the only argument I've found for pistol caliber carbines and SMGs in today's world, and even .300BLK has made that somewhat moot.

    • @jacobstaten2366
      @jacobstaten2366 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Make it automatic. 🤔

    • @androskyvitaliy2682
      @androskyvitaliy2682 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      There's something to be said for relatively simple blowback actions that you can run handgun cartridges in, which are much simpler and thus cheaper to produce than locked breech rifle-cal carbines.

    • @Dracomandriuthus
      @Dracomandriuthus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Pistol calibers have an advantage of being cheap, as well

    • @bezimienny_andzej6425
      @bezimienny_andzej6425 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Also: not blow out your eardrums when not wearing hearing protection. SMGs with 20-30cm barrels and pistol-caliber cartridges (that are generally made for 10cm barrels) are a LOT quieter than small carbines, that, when fired in confined space, guarantee hearing loss, unless silenced with a bigass silencer, which causes it to no longer be smaller than SMG :)

    • @elitearbor
      @elitearbor 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@bezimienny_andzej6425 An excellent point!

  • @kainhall
    @kainhall 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    my m1 garand flexes and so does my 91/30 flexes (3 feet of barrel...)
    my ruger m77 mk2 308 flexes
    my 30-30 marlin and henry 22 lever guns flex...a little
    dudes111....barrels flexing is why free floating is so important for hunting/accurate shooting in general.
    also why bull barrels exist...flex much less, if at all.

    • @extrastuff9463
      @extrastuff9463 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Watching metal and other things flex is interesting, a good while ago I've had the opportunity to mess around a bit with a decent high fps camera. I mainly planned to use it to see how some things would go splat when shot, smashed or blown up by high pressure. But it turned out to be interesting even to see how a splitting axe handles for example as you hit the wood, or just a metal rod fixed in a vice and hitting it at various points along the length sticking out.
      I also recorded and reviewed the barrel of my .22 pcp airrifle (230 bar/3300 psi fill pressure in the tank). Despite being relatively low in muzzle energy and pressures in the barrel can't be too high compared to powder burning firearms there was some flexing visible on the recording (it has a free floating barrel). I still regret to this day I didn't bring out my HW35 springer to see how that one behaved.
      I'm guessing that you'd see a lot more flexing in a traditional spring piston or gas piston based airrifle (the piston rapidly accelerating and stopping as it reaches the end of the cylinder generating the pressure to push the pellet out).

  • @JustSomeDutchGuy-
    @JustSomeDutchGuy- 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you sir, another great video!

  • @huichuanyang8105
    @huichuanyang8105 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The next big advancement could be self guiding projectiles. DARPA is working on one but I imagine those are horrendously expensive right now and not altogether practical yet.

  • @VOLHans
    @VOLHans 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ian touched on future developments...
    My best guess is that at some point we're going to see smooth-bore small arms firing fin stabilized ammunition, possibly with discarding sabots, in order to squeeze more velocity.
    Second, optics that work as an integrated fire control system. Probably in the form of a scope that includes buttons attached on or near the grip, allowing the shooter to take a laser range with the press of a button, and then automatically setting the reticle to compensate for bullet drop at that range.

  • @JohnDoe-ee6qs
    @JohnDoe-ee6qs 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    a radio in your rifle is exactly what you need whilst out hunting 😁

  • @tod3403
    @tod3403 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    That chair looks pretty comfortable. Nicely cushioned.

  • @wsg4847
    @wsg4847 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Regarding guns with accessories such as the coffee grinder stock, the IMI Galil had a bottle opener in the front handguard.

    • @samwagner7837
      @samwagner7837 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      But that had the purpose of stopping troops from using the magazine well instead to open there botles

    • @samwagner7837
      @samwagner7837 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Still wacky though

  • @yeoldegunporn
    @yeoldegunporn 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The SVT-40 flexes a lot in slow motion. A lot.

  • @HDSME
    @HDSME 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I once saw a 7.62 m 14 barrel actually serpentine like a snake it blew my mind!
    To this day I'm still in shock! You have to see it to believe it I know it sounds insane

  • @heinzpeter644
    @heinzpeter644 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    the next improvements could be ballistic computers like in the xm25, or caseless ammunition

  • @JoeSnuffie
    @JoeSnuffie 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have an AR-15 in 5.45x39 and I really enjoy it. At 300 yards I can hit a 10 inch steel plate every time with a 3x scope and that's plenty accurate for me.

  • @dr.johnpaladinshow9747
    @dr.johnpaladinshow9747 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I thought the little compartment in the stock of my survival rifle was for joints.

    • @01superduty89
      @01superduty89 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Dr. John Paladin Show yes sir

  • @3592090
    @3592090 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Ian said that the RSC is his "Grail Gun" a couple of videos ago.

    Now BOOOM Here's one right there.
    Damn man, I love you so much

  • @Taurevanime
    @Taurevanime 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A response to two of the questions asked. Namely on design plateau and the potential adoption of a new cartridge. There is one project the US has worked on that is the Lightweight Small Arms Technologies (LSAT). Which started off with the goal of making a weapon and ammo that significantly reduces the load carried by machine gunners, without sacrificing their capabilities.
    Out of this came new cartridge designs. cased telescoped cartridges and caseless cartridges. Of these it was found that cased telescoped was closer to being a viable product while offering the weight and bulk savings desired. So much so in fact that while the system initially used standard 5.56 bullets they have now moved onto 7.62 bullets and found the total package weight to be only slightly more than an M249 with full ammo load. But here is the kicker. If this system were to be adopted there is absolutely no reason to stick to current bullet designs. And so work has started on finding a new bullet that due to a better and more efficient shape can offer 7.62 long range performance. While being not much more powerful or heavier than 5.56. One of the bullet designs the Army Marksmanship Unit came up with as start off point. Is a new cartridge called the .264 USA. It's a little on the powerful side, which is likely due to coming from the AMU.
    This is still however experimental and not slated for adoption. Let alone being close to getting into civilian or collector hands any time soon. If you want to get more information I highly suggest going to the website and forum of the very nice Anthony G Williams. www.quarryhs.co.uk/

  • @miguelangelsimonfernandez5498
    @miguelangelsimonfernandez5498 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Your rule is similar to the one we have in Spain: Any non rimmed high pressure cartridge (rifle) weapon of .50 caliber or greater is illegal for civilian use.

  • @jacobstaten2366
    @jacobstaten2366 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just one more reason to get rid of the NFA and BATFE.
    The new thing will be a camera optic that connects via a wire to your phone or a monitor over your eye that allows you to aim around corners and not worry about lining up your sights.
    34:43 use my pistol mags interchangeably with it.
    39:48 With the space fleet thing, what about a 5.56/9mm intermediate cartridge?

  • @shonny61
    @shonny61 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The Mk 7 16/50 flexes. A lot. It's a feature, not a bug.

  • @bmwnut93
    @bmwnut93 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Winchester radio rifle is in Springfield, MO at the National Sporting Arms Museum. They have a lot of other great firearms. I hope you can some day go there to make videos on the weapons there.

  • @Greasymarsupial
    @Greasymarsupial 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Those sick kicks

  • @MrBandholm
    @MrBandholm 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Ian I know that the chance that you see this is slim, but still...
    Would you and Othais (from C&Rsenal) ever think about making a book on the weapons from WW1 (and other conflicts)?
    One could argue that you already have made really good material on this subject. But a book, with a good register, pictures of the guns and notes on how you find it preforms.
    Basically a printed vision of your work, but made more manageable in sektions (country of origin, type, and so on)

    • @ForgottenWeapons
      @ForgottenWeapons  7 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      I can't speak for Othais, but I would guess that he is far to busy right now to make a book, but that he is considering potential print use of his photography for some point in the future. My situation is pretty much the same. Books require a massive amount of work for a pretty minimal return, and while I would like to do one or several at some point, I don't know when that point might be.

    • @ultr7712
      @ultr7712 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      How about a blog or website that's solely dedicated for these kind of stuff? At least on there its much more accessible and easier to update.

    • @CocoTehQuila
      @CocoTehQuila 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      like www.forgottenweapons.com ?

    • @ultr7712
      @ultr7712 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Coco similar to that but it focuses more on weapons specific to the war,era etc. More like a catalog of interesting weapons of the period rather than a whole collection of weapons from different times and eras.

  • @nwolinsP
    @nwolinsP 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    the submachine chair is great!

  • @chipChipperson202
    @chipChipperson202 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    With development in battery tech we could be seeing a sort of rail gun for the soldier

  • @artkarydezartkarydez7244
    @artkarydezartkarydez7244 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You rock "Gun Jesus" !

  • @Meeko1010100112
    @Meeko1010100112 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting idea for hypervelocity guns. Electromagnetic stabilization. Use a magnet to impart spin to the bullet instead of the physical rifling, that way the issue of throat erosion is dealt with. You'd need special magnetic ammunition ('special', steel bullets) to function, but it would just need to be passive magnets there to guide the bullet with a spin, not the very complicated and fancy magnet set up for coilguns that requires a butt load of energy to fire one shot.

  • @LifeStyle-uh1ns
    @LifeStyle-uh1ns 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    To add to the innovation discussion, I would like to state that I think that the AK 107 counterbalance gun is a great innovation which we have not seen in the US. (yet)

  • @SpeedyDePalma
    @SpeedyDePalma 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bringing up better optics and augmented reality brings to mind a game that got it's start in the late 80's known as Shadowrun which took place in a dystopian future of the 2050's where the weapons had the capability of having what they called a smartlink where though goggles or enhanced eyes you could link up a program with your weapon to enhance ones abilities to shoot and give feedback to surroundings such as distance.

  • @Nephi895
    @Nephi895 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I can't believe you didn't mention your silent co-star, an RSC semi-auto rifle!

  • @spoeny
    @spoeny 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    From the ATF curio & relic list:
    Finnish, m/23 Deutches Waffen Munitionsfabriken (DWM)-manufactured Luger pistols with 95cm or 120cm barrels in 7.65mm or 9mm calibers.
    95cm is roughly three foot, 120cm is four. Crazy Finns ;-)

  • @andrewgillis3073
    @andrewgillis3073 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    As an interesting side note on destructive devices, the US Army issued thermite grenade is not regulated in the NFA because it doesn't explode...

  • @JosephHarner
    @JosephHarner 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    There are some interesting developments in caseless ammunition that might bring about a reasonably large change in firearm design. Not having to eject a spent shell casing will be interesting. The LSAT trials performed by the US looked promising.

  • @Bearthedancingman
    @Bearthedancingman 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    In relation to gun flexing.
    Check out a bow firing an arrow, a good archer can hit an asperin that has been thrown, yet the arrow wobbles like crazy.
    So it isn't hard to imagine that with the immense energy a firearm has to handle, that harmonic forces will cause flexing at some level.

  • @douglasfulmer5483
    @douglasfulmer5483 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think good, effective caseless ammo will be the next step.
    And of course lasers :D

  • @euanhastie4671
    @euanhastie4671 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    For odd stocks, The TP-82 with a machete/axe detachable stock.

  • @mysss29
    @mysss29 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Noooo, you made, "26:04 - Why don't we see higher velocity bullets?" out of something more like, "Why don't we use faster-burning powders to achieve the bullet velocities we already see?"
    It seems like the problem of heat dissipation and consequent barrel wear you brought up might also apply to this, in addition to, possibly, limitations of chemistry; but you answered another interesting question instead of the one asked! :P
    And...yeah, to finish restating the question posed: "Wouldn't a faster-burning powder [even hypothetically] be more efficient in accelerating a projectile, allowing a smaller case volume and thus more compact, lighter ammunition?"

  • @comderbob
    @comderbob 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Look at the newish Russian 9x19 over pressure military ammo which pretty well closes the gap between an SMG and a PDW/short carbine. The Swedes also had and probably still have the CBJ-MS SMG/PDW.

  • @jamesbridges7750
    @jamesbridges7750 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    With regards to the question about propellant improvements enabling higher velocity with lighter ammo, I think the point was more a question of making a round the size of a 5.7x28mm perform as well as a 5.56x45mm , not making a 5.56x45mm perform like a 223wssm . 5.7x28mm weighs about half as much as 5.56 ammo ,and there would be some weight savings from the shorter action length that it allows. Think smaller gun and lighter ammo but same capability.