Q&A #4: These Are A Few of My Favorite Things
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2016
- / forgottenweapons
Time for another monthly Q&A video - thanks to my supporters on Patreon for helping to make this possible! I have a whole bunch of questions this time, and have timestamps for each individual one here:
0:52 - Barrel length in terms of bore diameter
3:18 - Why did the XM8 fail?
weaponsman.com/?p=5715
9:22 - Why are so many Japanese Type I Carcano rifles in unissued condition?
12:13 - Hammer bite - what actually happens? (high speed footage)
14:12 - What does my own gun collection look like, and what gun am I interested in?
19:52 - What's the deal with flechettes?
22:41 - Will I be making more gunsmithing videos?
/ gunlabdo. .
23:40 - What elements would I incorporate into a gun of my own design?
26:17 - What WWI gun would I choose to take into WWI?
27:45 - How is the Ruger 10/22?
29:50 - Why was England the only country still using a revolver as a standard sidearm going into WWII?
32:32 - Were there any semi auto or full auto black powder guns?
33:46 - What are the pros and cons of tilting vs rotating bolts?
36:15 - Have people tried using stronger materials than brass for cartridge cases?
40:30 - What was the best overall 19th century single shot breechloader?
42:37 - Were there any types of multi-shot muzzleloading rifles?
44:51 - Why did it take so long for metallic cartridges to enter military service after they were first invented?
48:22 - What are my thoughts on 3D printed guns?
link to defcon at 50:15
50:35 - Which last ditch rifle would I pick to use?
51:50 - When will I visit Europe, and what do I want to see there?
I got the shirt from 1791 Apparel: www.1791apparel.com/collection...
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"If you could design a firearm what would it be?" is a pretty funny question for Ian because specifically doing this show has exposed him to countless times that "I'm gonna design the perfect firearm" ended very badly
Funnier now, since he's (co)designed the WWSD.
I was reading on the early development of the Browning Auto 5 shotgun. It was my understanding that it was meant to cycle black powder loads on the 'gallery' or 'light' setting of the recoil system. It made sense to me, given the design timeframe. The long recoil mechanism would also be quite difficult to gum up with fouling, evident to me when I did the initial clean on my Auto-5, which was still working despite being caked with oil sludge. I think the previous owner never cleaned it, and lubed it with 5W-30 motor oil (though, that was John Browning's recommendation, albeit decades before this particular shotgun was built)
By the way: Obturation is where the "o" in o-ring comes from.
The Patreon is almost to 3k! Let's get Ian out into the field and give some of those forgotten weapons that have been locked away in display cases a bit of life!
+mechtech256 Yes! :)
@@ForgottenWeaponsIan you are an absolute legend💪
Speaking of the Dutch military museum: The Legermuseum in Delft was rolled into the NMM. Until then, they had a cabinet (5-10 m long) with prototypes, intermediate manufacturing steps etc of the Dutch geweer/karabijn M.95. If you were to go there, I'd specifically suggest you ask what happened to it before you go. It's a fairly forgotten weapon (even in the US among collectors), and very pedagogically presented, at least in the form I saw it a few years ago when it was still in Delft.
I always say, "I'll watch half this Q&A video now and half later!" I always end up watching the whole thing! XD
+Evan Asche I'm the same way. Hence the reason I am still awake when I should have been in bed at least an hour ago. I'd say it's worth being a little groggy when I have to get up and go to work though.
To add to the muzzle loading multi shot question, you also had full on pepperbox style weapons like the Artemus Wheeler guns. This only has the one flint, frizzen and flash-pan and the way that it worked was that all of the barrels were loaded with a charge and ball and as you manually rotated the cluster of 7 barrels, a portion of the charge was shaved off into the flash-pan. They were made in carbine, rifle and pistol varieties (I have only ever seen an example of the carbine though), and 2 each of the carbines and rifles were procured and tested by the US Navy in 1821 for potential boarding party use.
in addition to the issue of the caliber and length of the cannon barrel. With this designation, you immediately have an idea of the class of the gun. What is it, a small-caliber anti-tank gun, mortar, howitzer ect
More videos on you personal guns/collection
My "last ditch" pick is the Spanish FR-8 7.62x51nato. Relatively low purchase price, easily available ammo, few and strong moving parts of high communality with other Mauser rifles. Accurate and mostly fits the Jeff Copper scout rifle concept and...ok, I like the way it looks.
I'm mechanized infantry and we work with Bradleys. If you pass the 3rd wheel to the front of the fighting vehicle when the m242 bushmaster 25mm chain gun is firing, it can kill you, make your ears bleed, brain hemorrhaging, concussions and etc. It doesn't sound like much but it is a hell of a cannon, considering it's automatic, and fires HE as well as more common AP.
first gun i ever fired was a ruger 22 target pistol, and first i ever purchased new myself was a 10/22. Now its kitted out like a cute little m1 carbine with tech sights and a 15 round magazine to boot.
I fall asleep to these every night , I learn so much everytime
the book shelf is really cool as well.
One of the best channels on youtube. I just patreoned you.
I can't believe how many videos you produce. Kudos sir !
Would love to shoot a 2 gun challenge with you one day !
Nothing like that near where I live unfortunately.
Thanks!
And one the subject of the cartridges vs muzzle loaders, another main reason why metallic cartridges weren't used was also because many high echelons on the army didn't trust them. This was especially true in the US Army were many of the Brigadier Generals were obsessed with the idea of the lone marksmen and they thought that metallic cartridges would cause troops to fire recklessly and waste ammo. This mentality actually stayed on pretty much up to the early stages of WW1 which is why many of the early bolt action rifles had magazine cutoffs so you could only fire one shot at a time. Of course WW1 proved that this wasn't practical and WW2 is what finally killed it when it became clear that rapid firepower was needed in modern war.
Fun little fact for you there. The stampings on the Thai carbine had a 'Chakr'(pronunced as a short 'jak') , the symbol of the RTA, and some Thai numerals for what I can see are x250. I'd need a better view of that area to determine whether it is a 1, 9, or 6.
As you said: counter argument, the Bren gun was one of the most accurate light machine guns ever produced, I have personally fired an L4 (7.62 NATO cartridge version) at 400m which would put 3 shot bursts sub MoA.
no it wont
When I went to Finland to meet with some good internet buddies, I went to a few museums and the ones that came to mind were the Parola Tank Museum an the Artillery Museum in Hämeenlinna. Turns out that there aren't actually many Tank museums in the world and the Finns have an impressive collection there from German WW2 vehicles to captured Soviet tanks and even some domestic experiments and different imports (the BT-42, for example, the British Comet tank and the Landswerk L-62 AA/AT) and, of course, interwar stuff. The artillery museum also has a huge collection of different field guns and howitzers and I barely had enough time to look at them all.
There's also the smaller Army Museum in Helsinki and a bunch of other museums all over the country that I didn't get to visit, but it was nice to see guns like the KP/31, Soviet DPs and Swedish BARs; stuff you don't get to see much outside the region.
Further, your Berthier is in Musketoon of Artillery Model 1892 Modified 1916 (Type 2) configuration. The Type 2 designation is determined by the rear sling attachment inlet of the stock instead of the swiveling attachment point. The Berthiers are confusing because each rifle's official designation is dependent upon its current configuration, not it's receiver markings. While This receiver is surely marked M16, it is actually an 1892, but with M16 standards. Cool piece! I have two 'M16s,' one built in 1916 in 3-shot, 1892 configuration with clearing rod intact, and later updated to M16 standards (without the clearing rod slot filled), and one built in 1933, in 5-shot, 1892 M16 Type 2 configuration.
Dude...that's a BRILLIANT t-shirt. :DDDDD
+polishjerk
Blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam PING!
+SwaffyX a true American rifle goes ping! Except the Germans made one first...
That's what I was thinking! I was a little mystified at first, then it clicked - aha! it's an M1!
+Caleb Ward Why 8 rounds?
Yeah, it's the kind of thing only a certain kinda person will get.
The US military used Flechettes in the 40mm APERS-T rounds for the m79 m203 grenade launchers and shotguns for jungle warfare in Vietnam, There are also Artillery shells loaded with flechettes M546 anti-personnel tracer (APERS-T) in the 105mm howitzer first fielded in 1966
I haven't seen a video on the shotgun conversion yet. Can we get one that kind of thing I find really interesting to! If you get time I'd love to see it please
If you havent seen it yet, C&R did a video on it here: th-cam.com/video/hNIkca8k1UQ/w-d-xo.html
Speaking of OICW, could you imagine how many pounds of batteries you’d have to carry to keep that in the fight?
Only Ian would be nice enough to recommend that you pester him
+Lorenzo Hill true true.... ive never felt like he has been like ONLY PATREON PEOPLE SEE THE VIDEOS! GIVE ME MONEY
on the topic on europe trip. what about tank fest? if you are interested in tanks and artillery. Also, what about asking backers in Europe for a place to stay? to save on costs
On multi-shot black powder rifles, don't forget harmonica rifles!
on the subject of the Springfield Trapdoor weapon, contrary to popular belief, they weren't all 1860 Rifled Muskets converted for brass cartridges. While the ones made in the 1860s post Civil War were, what happened was that the conversions were extremely unreliable and the guns would corrode really easily so to fix this they built a stronger trapdoor but... this newer system wasn't compatible with the 1860 Springfield Rifled Musket so basically the US government spent money on a new weapon anyway.
There's an old saying in the arms industry. A government can be your best and your worst customer.
that Thai Type 38 carbine is cool. I just picked up an Arisaka Type 38 Long with intact mum. Now I'll be on the look out for one of those Thai Type 38 carbines. That m1 carbine style sling attachment is cool
The foil wrapped brass Boxer cartridge for the Martini Henry (and Snider and Comblain and others) was prefectly strong enough to contain the pressure of firing. They were still making them into the 1930's and cheaper than drawn brass to boot. Indeed they were refillable. In Canada the Dominion Cartridge Company made kits for the Canadian army to refill Snider cartridges.
Regarding muzzleloaded repeaters you forgot what could be called "Harmonica" guns (also called sliding breech guns) where multiple side by side chambers can be all loaded and slid into place one at a time to be fired sequentially. Johnathon Browning (father of John Moses Browning) had a patent for such in the 1830s.
If you end up going to Europe, can I humbly suggest the citadel in Dinant Belgium?
Seems like every war since the middle ages passed through that town, and the citadel fortress there has a crazy museum with tons of unique weapons (and the effects of weapons) from all sorts of time periods.
+Kevin Overduin www.citadellededinant.be/en/Welcome/
Great stuff Ian. Really enjoy your video's.
I live in Eindhoven, North Brabant, the Netherlands.
This would be a great place to start your holidays because:
Around Eindhoven there are a lot of great museums (Best, Overloon,Helmond) and Holland is swarming with them!
From here you can reach al of Europe by car, train, bicycle or bus.
Don't forget, here every state is a totally different country, with its own language, culture and weapons!
Also they were reloadable too. The Canadian Army issued kits to reload their Snider cartridges.
With artillery, barrel length is expressed as multiples of it's bore diameter, because it's that ratio that really matters, not the actual overall length. The actual overall length is relative to the bore diameter.
Back on the subject of Flechettes. In the late 70's early 80's we were still using 90mm recoilless rifles. One of the types of rounds we had for it was a flechette (bee-hive) round. I would not like to be on the receiving end of it. Good job on the videos!
Got to say, thanks for putting in the work man. Great channel.
I had no idea the Maxim was originally a black powder gun! Thanks for answering my question.
+Nathan Snitko www.forgottenweapons.com/the-first-maxim-machine-gun/
The French Resistance rifle you showed- very cool!
The Dutch military museum ? I used too live a 5 minute bicycle ride away until it moved away a while back, a shame really. Was a great place. to go see stuff.
Didn’t they experiment with fletchets in early chain guns or in machine guns. I seem to remember reading something about it years ago. I have been wrong before though.
I had a Ruger 10/22 and found it to be a pile of junk.
Tried many different types of ammo, extractors, recoil springs, polishing the receiver, mods to hold the magazines tighter and no matter what the thing stove piped constantly.
I'd get at least 2 stovepipes per 10 rounds.
Sold it for an Uberti lever-action .22lr and could not be happier.
ruger: the honda of the firearms industry
Its actually more of toyota, dead reliable and not really flashy in any way.
Honda tends to be a bit flashy
Nah, its ruger
@RadBaeron toyotas look nice
You’re right about firearms development. A couple of weeks ago, a dealer handed me a carbon fiber barreled AR-10, and I was shocked the thing weighed under 8 lbs.
Not to mention the new, utterly reliable semi auto 12 gauge shotguns on the market.
Without a major jump forward in some fashion, be it cartridge development, directed energy weapons, etc. I don’t think things will change all that much.
Huge numbers of S&W victory pistols in US inventory including smaller numbers of Colt revolvers .
My favorite part was at 10:30 when Ian says touch hole. I felt that
Roberto I have a mosburge street sweeper 10 round shotgun with changeable clips I know they outlawed them in 70 a atf of course shoots well any kind of shot shells home protection !
the fouling and smoke in a blackpowder maxim must have been incredible.
hey man I have been watching your videos for a couple months now and just wanna say great job!!! I love the depth you go into with the guns. Iv learned so much from watching you. more then i ever thought I would!! just wanna say thanks for making these!!! I always look forward to watching your videos all the time!!! And just one viewer question for you. is there ANY WAY you could do a video on a galil if you could come across one? just wondering. thanks again man!!!
16:15 Your guess is probably right. The artwork pictures a "Croix de Lorraine" on top of a "V" for victory, which was the symbol of both the French resistance (FFI) and the Free French (FFL) who fought alongside the Allied forces from the D-Day on. So it's safe to say that the owner of this gun was either a French resistant (or a "terrorist" as the Nazis would say) or a regular French soldier.
If you go to Europe, I demand a meet up with capandball; you two are literally the best guys on youtube
This is a great video for a different video. lots of nice introductory trivia to evolution of firearms technology.
They also used flechettes in some artillery applications from ww1 up to vietnam an example and resurfaced in the more recent wars
as always great video. happy Easter
Flechette's work very well from the karl gustoff recoilless !
YOU FINALLY SHOWED THE SPEED LOADER!! Ive wanted to see that thing actually working so bad since i first learned of it!
Great session! You are the best in the historical weapons educational content! I just signed up on your Patreon site.
That is a nice Berthier you have there. I recently picked up a M16 Berthier d'artillerie carbine but it was the previous 3 round clip style. Unfortunately the numbers don't match but shes a fun piece all the same. Love the content!
Great answers as always. Two places to consider in Europe that I have been to and saw a number of unusual firearms would be the Grand Curtius in Liege, Belgium and the Vienna Museum of Military History in Austria. The Grand Armee Museum in Paris is also very good, and has a number of odd variants of French military rifles that were used in trials and testing.
Watched the whole thing, it was pretty good!
Make sure you go to the Royal Armouries in Leeds, UK if you get the chance. Some of the stuff there is beyond historic and incredibly rare.
Ian if you do go to Europe I would love to see a report from the CZ factory in Brno, Czech. The bike races from the Brno circuit are epic too, both World Superbike and MotoGP.
I remember reading that the trapdoor was superior to the rolling block in field durability testing regarding imperviousness to dirt, mud etc... yes ease of modification of existing muzzleloaders in inventory from the war between the states must have played a role but not certain that was the deciding factor. Otherwise why was the RB only adopted by second tier countries?
Interesting video, thanks for putting it out there.
I would take an SMLE into WW1 for sure.
Between my Mauser and Enfield's I would take the Lee Enfield every time. Only real advantage I can see for the Mauser is it's easier to load with stripper clips.
Good info, great channel!
What a great video, so much info. Thanks.
I've found that even just the A1 grip safety does a pretty good job of keeping your hand away from the hammer. I have decently large hands, but I suppose everyone is different.
I've shot a Kongsberg 1914 (copy of the pre A1 1911). I've got pretty small hands, and got bit by the hammer once. I then adjusted my grip slightly, and didn't get bit again.
30:05
"The answer is money. The answer is very often money."
So true.
54 minute video of Ian talking and answering questions? Yes please!
The points on 3D printing were very well taken and so fascinating, scary, amazing, near-unfathomable etc. I've been dreaming about this technology as an "Overland" 4wd Enthusiast as well (Even my mighty Toyota Hilux breaks down once in a while and needs a some small part that's given up the ghost after 300k miles...it happens), for many years now when I first saw it on the horizon, I see an awesome opportunity for essential parts being available/create-able in the farthest reaches and in-time creating a new form of infrastructure to support different groups (not limited to the 4wd world is what I'm meaning) for whom the technology will benefit them/their needs where. Suddenly anywhere with the electricity and the materials can become a production facility and make nearly ANYTHING that someone can design within reason and without needing specialized tooling, just a digital TDP-type file sent from X facility to Y point of creation... It's also got some spooky ramifications/potential usages but then so does a Steak-knife so...
Such an interesting concept and ties in well with the point you mention about the firearms technology having plateaued cause THIS could allow for some designs to reach fruition that simply aren't reasonable/possible with current "reductive" manufacturing means. LOVE this channel.
+Nor Wester (4Rescue) I think a lot of the interesting developments in the field with regards to guns, is working around the somewhat particular limitations of 3D printers, things like z-precision.
+DFX2KX Yeah, good point.
That French carbine is pretty damn neat. And to my eye that resistance symbol seems legit.
Russia's sidearm in WW2 was a revolver too.
"Huh, those rifles look a bit rough for what I would imagine him getting... OH. that's why"
You always keep it interesting.
Tilting vs rotating bolt. Two more issues.
1. Reliability
The rotating bolt also has the advantage of soft initial extraction. As in a bolt action rifle, the bolt has to turn as it begins to move rearwards. This can be significant in the case where sand or other dirt got into the action and is contributing to causing the cartridge case to stick in the chamber. This can be more severe in the case of straight-walled cartridges such as the 7,62 x 51 NATO cartridge. As the bolt rotates, either the extractor turns the cartridge with it, thus breaking the seal, or spreads the pulling effort over a wider section of the rim as it runs around the rim. As opposed to the a straight rearwards pull on the rim, there is less risk of the extractor simply tearing off the part of the rim it is grabbing.
The FN-FAL has been used by over 70 countries and the only complaints to the rim tear-off problem seem to be from Israel. Apparently, sand in the Middle East is particularly obnoxious in this respect.
2. Lighter weight
A front-locked bolt also allows reducing the weight of the receiver. Since the the locking shoulder required for a tilting bolt is at the rear of the bolt, it means that the receiver must have the strength to hold the bolt locked against the 60,000 psi pressure. As opposed to a locking system using a barrel extension to lock the bolt at its front. The receiver of a tilting rear-locked bolt requires sturdier and heavier material than the aluminium used in the M-16.
I had not heard about the enhanced accuracy though.
Hi, Ian 16:05. The art work. Could be a Lotharingen cross (Lorraine cross) and V for victory. Both used by the French resistance Groups during WW2.
Absolutely fascinating.
as always exelent video thanks for the knowledge.
I've been a subscriber for a while now and have watched every episode. I was wondering how many weapons have just completely malfunctioned on you?
thanks for making great videos. I have shot most ww1 & ww2 rifles. You are spot on with your analysis.
If you get to the Royal Armouries in Leeds (UK) it'd be cool to hear you give a talk.
Nice video and nice shirt!
About what whould be the best gun...Ians answer is an argument you find in many fields among professionals. People ask me what are the best microphones and the answer is... for what? It's entausiastic amatures who sustain the hope there might be one better than all others.
Great Q&A Ian! Regarding the flechette, wasn't there also an artillery canister-type round used in the Vietnam war that employed several dozen flechettes (I keep wanting to call them "Beehive" shells) in an air-burst delivery? I know the question was primarily about small-arms application, but figured I would ask if that was really a thing or if my memory is once again full of swiss-cheese holes
+izonker Yes, that was a thing.
Thank you both, glad to know at least that much of my memory remains intact! :D
1) First, it is Flech Ette, not Flesh Ay
2) They were deadly in Vietnam when used in artillery and tank guns "The first example was the 105mm howitzer M546 anti-personnel tracer (APERS-T), first fired in combat in 1966 and thereafter used extensively in the Vietnam War. Intended for direct fire against enemy troops, the M546 was direct fired from a near horizontally leveled 105 mm howitzer and ejected 8000 flechettes during flight by a mechanical time fuse. Green starshells were shot into the air prior to their use to warn friendly troops that such a round was being shot." When I was in armor Officer Basic, we were told of an incident where an Armored Cavalry Troop's night defensive position was assaulted. When the M551 Sheridans of the troop turned on their search lights, an entire NVA company was seen dealy boppin down the road right at the NDP. The M551 covering that sector touched off a 152mm beehive round and the entire NVA company disappeared. In the morning there were bodies everywhere and a lot of blood trails leading back into the jungle.
I love those Q&A videos and I really wish I had the funds to collaborate with your Patreon, Ian. But currently all my Patreon earnings are directed to household expenses. Maybe when the financial situation here stabilizes a bit. Anyway, your knowledge of firearms history, design and trivia is impressive. Hats off to you!
Unrelated, but odd: every time I get a new video from Forgotten Weapons the "Up Next" and "Recommended" videos spazz out and start offering me educational videos. I get that the channel is educational, but still. I'd have expected more gun videos instead of teaching small kids how to count through songs or how to make your own compost. Go figure.
I will say, as someone who is not a ballistics expert or even really enthusiast, but a ballistics... supremacist? I guess? That describing rifles in terms of caliber, cartridge length, and barrel length is actually quite sensible. At the least, it would help in determining the kinetic energy leaving the barrel. So a 20 inch barrel AR-15 would be 5.56x45, L508 (because 20 inches are 508 mm). However, such descriptions would reduce the desirability of regular rifles in comparison to bullpups, and I would argue this is a big part of why such measurements are still not used.
FLECHETTES ROUNDS WERE USED 40MM M-79 GRENADE LAUNCHER AND 2.75 AIR TO GROUND ROCKET, 12GA. BRASS CASED SHOTGUN ROUND. ALL IN NAM.
As for the xm8, my very first thought is that a 12.5 inch barrel for a standard issue rifle was in no way acceptable.
On the black powder semi and full auto question...didn't John browning start prototyping lever actions into auto loaders in the black powder era?
Thank you for yet another wonderful and informative video. I do have a nit to pick though, balloon headed metallic cases are mad buy first forming an open on one end cylinder and then crimping the close end down creating a rim the is simply folded over (much like a rimfire cartridge) modern cases are made by forming the case head with more material so that there is a web of thicker material at the head. This is why one can't put 70 grains of black powder into a .45/70 case.
Military firearms, and equipment in general, must have that rare characteristic of being Soldier (or 2nd Lt) proof, that is that they are difficult to break even with some ingenuity and force applied. As impossible as it sounds I have seen an M-14 assembled in such a way that the operating rod was outside of the connector assembly (which keeps the operating rod in it's track) but was still able to chamber and safely fire a single round. Needless to say the weapon the weapon thereafter needed the attention of an armorer and the recruit involved received the full attention of his coach (me), the Primary Marksmanship instructor, all three of his Drill Instructors, and the Warrant Officer who ran the range complex. None of the above could believe that this was possible.
The major issue between a rotary bolt is the small bolt and barrel extension are cheaper than a locking wedge is the receiver has to be heavier and more costly .
There's already someone selling 3D printed AR grips. I've got a bunch of MIAD grips that I'm happy with, so I didn't take note of the manufacturers name.
When next time in the UK, consider hopping over to the Netherlands ...I don't think the costs will break the bank, some really cheap fares to be had.
That little French carbine is absolutely stunning. A nice piece for sure.
You can 3D print with a CNC might welder. It has been a worry of the common welder for a while.
and Brown paper packages tied up with string
I don't think the m4/16 is going anywhere until we start issuing troops with laser weapons.
I believe it is reasonably safe to say, the only thing connected to the military that was designed to perform multiple functions well, and succeeded, was the Swiss Army Knife and its clones,or possibly the Original Jeep. Many, if not all of the projected weapons designs of a "one size fits all"idea are developed in reply to some "bean counter" with the support of politicians "looking out for their constituents"(meaning some supporter will make money,and therefore campaign contributions). They ALWAYS sound good to the uninitiated. MAYBE when lasers become man portable, with unlimited power that is operator adjustable?
Thanks for the vid. BTW The decisive difference of the tilting vs rotating bolts in my opinion wasnt the desired performance of the product, but technological level of the manufacturer.
The things this man knows just from memory are incredible.