Q&A 21: French Edition
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ค. 2024
- www.frenchriflebook.com
Check it out for all the cool news on my upcoming book on French military rifles!
/ forgottenweapons
Today's Q&A is all about French guns, because I am getting close to being finished writing a book on French military rifles - the first book to cover this subject in English from the Chassepot through the FAMAS!
01:34 - Favorite French pistol, rifle, and machine gun
03:13 - How did I get interested in French arms?
05:05 - Lebel's effectiveness at preventing tube magazine detonation?
07:45 - Plans to make the RSC after WW1?
10:00 - Why was French arms development overwhelmingly government and not private?
12:01 - Current arms manufacturing capacity in France?
13:30 - How does the FAMAS fit into the general bullpup timeline?
16:16 - Should the RSC have been updated to use the 7.5mm cartridge?
17:30 - Do I speak French?
19:46 - Which was better, the Lebel or Berthier?
20:35 - Why did it take so long to replace the MAS 49/56?
22:18 - Would a modern FAMAS using P-mags be feasible?
24:05 - Why did France not adopt the Maxim gun?
26:02 - Do I plan to get optics for my FAMAS?
30:07 - Why did the French adopt en bloc clips?
31:20 - What French arms are currently available at reasonable prices?
34:36 - Are there French-specific themes to their small arms?
36:35 - Would it have made a difference if France had adopted a semiauto rifle by 1939?
37:04 - What did the French arsenals do under occupation/Vichy?
38:28 - Will my book include the tabatiere?
39:17 - Should France have adopted an intermediate round in place of the 7.5x54?
40:37 - Do I have a Chatellerault M91 Mosin?
42:48 - What could be improved on the FAMAS?
44:17 - Most practical French rifle of WW1?
44:54 - Did France use the Gatling Gun in the Franco-Prussian War?
47:13 - Thoughts on the adoption of the HK 416?
50:20 - Best French rifle adopted at its time?
51:54 - Why does the French government keep WW1 and WW2 stuff classified still today?
53:54 - What was the status of the MAS-40 when WW2 started?
55:46 - Greek use of the Berthier
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
PO Box 87647
Tucson, AZ 85754
Ian's perfect gun? Left-handed bolt-action wood stock FAMAS chambered in Lebel, made by Germans on captured Belgian tooling?
Did you know there there was indeed a wood stock FAMAS ? (it didn't leave the prototype stage though). And an another one was to chamber it to 7,62 ?
In a swiss factory with a Chinese guy stamping an all-sorts over it
Found in French Indochina
😂😂
Yes except for the German part. Just French and Belgian, thanks!
Although I am a Swiss, I served in the French Army for 6 years, just at the right time to experience the transition from the MAS 49/56 to the FAMAS, and from the scoped MAS 49/56 to the FRF1, then FRF2. As a soldier, I loved the FAMAS for its convenience (apart from cleaning, which was a serious pain in the arse and always took forever, that is). The strap was just fantastic. You could comfortably carry hands-free across the chest, and free the weapon in a split second to shoulder it. The strap also could be set as double straps , to carry the weapon as a backpack. Good ergonomics too. That rifle was definitely user-friendly. Now, as a gun enthusiast, I was disappointed with the FAMAS's lack of accuracy. It is also worth mentioning that the FAMAS's operating system (lever-delayed blowback) was ammunition-sensitive. Would not cycle when using British ammo. The iron sights would also move easily when taking a bashing. Mine lost zero after a heavy landing on a parachute jump. It also rusted faster than you could oil it during jungle training.
+The Swiss Gunsmith - Pendant la période de transition, conserviez-vous au sein du groupe de combat, un MAS 49-56 pour lancer les grenades ? C'est une configuration que l'on voit souvent au Liban 1982-1983 : tous le monde est armé d'un FAMAS (sauf tireur de LRAC, FRF1 et AA52) et un soldat conserve un MAS 49/56.
+MrTangolizard , Before the M16A2 all 5,56mm assault rifle used the M193 (55 gr) ball, not the SS109. IE first batch of Galil / M16A1 / STG77 (Steyr AUG) / SIG 540 / AR18 / Beretta AR 70 /FN CAL ………...
These are always the best comments in any of Ian's videos.
thanks for the first hand account
In English you just say
“Although I am Swiss”
You don’t say I am a Swiss
Brendan is French foregin legion in the Mummy so it makes sense
that's nice attention to details
The Mummy is a great movie with great attention to detail.
Check out the imfdb article on the movie for all the firearms used in it.
I was rather impressed with the work of the gun wrangler on that movie.
@@Vartuoosi I know this comment's old but the movie is timeless lmao, thanks to Ian's vid on the Lebel I noticed when I watched it for the hundredth time a few weeks ago that Fraser as well as his battalion continued to single load cartridges during the opening siege even after being overrun because their CO ran away and never gave the order to disengage the magazine cutoff
Chatellerault stamp on Mosins actually reads "Shatyelro" and for some reason I find it awfully funny.
Shatt hell roh
Ian thinks German and French cursive and script are difficult
He has never known the true pain of trying to read Russian cursive
Mikhail Morev script is worse...
Steven Swingler yeah I took a year of university level of Russian, my script MIGHT be worse than that even.
@@Ivan-vn1pd and people complain about my handwriting...
especially Russian doctor's notes...
What about cursive cursive 🤔
As a french, I can assure you that french people are careful for foreigners trying to speak french. We like that.
The only weapon I was very happy with was the AA52 machine gun. It was extremely reliable, had a very good grip and trigger (borrowed from the MG42), and was extremely accurate and controllable. In its infantry squad weapon version ("fusil mitrailleur"), it could easily shoot a man-sized target at 600 meters and beyond. With experience and good trigger work, you could shoot single shots to adjust for range, then surprise the enemy with a deadly burst. Well worth the burden of carrying the 10kg package.
Bonsoir,
Après une rapide recherche, on ne trouve pas grand chose sur TH-cam (en fait rien) à propos des capacités del'AA52. Est ce que vous connaissez des sources internet?
Ian is such a Ouiaboo
FrankDaTank1218 Nice one!
+FrankDaTank - what a great term you've invented!
I doubt he would disagree
ha ha. Ha Ha. Aaahhh ha ha ha ha!!!
I see what you did there, and I approve.
I love this
The only French weapon thing I have is a MAS49 magazine pouch my grandfather brought back from Vietnam
Cool family history though
My only French weapon is an Escargot fork
Corkscrew is much better
Rice=safe
Bonjour ! J'ai beaucoup apprécié l'introduction de la vidéo !! Good job guy!
Ah mes amis bienvenus à Armes Oubliés !
Merci Monsieur Jésus des Flingues
😄
Ian’s pad is classy af.
Much like Ian, it seems.
Who doesn't have a drinks globe?
He built it himself
I think Othias over at C&Rsenal mentioned knowing of a handfull of detonations and no injuries from the Lebel chain firing in the tube.
I can say without a doubt that no channel has continually earned my devotion like yours, Ian. I've been subscribed for over 5 years and you keep on topping yourself. Keep it up!
Just for that introduction, I clic on LIKE :)
Greetings from Greece!!Thank you so much for answering the question Ian!!Keep up the awesome job!! Waiting for your book!!
What a nice birthday present for me! Thank you Ian, I always love hearing more about French firearms history.
I'm mentioning Forgotten Weapons in my common app essay and how it definitely helped me narrow down my major choice to mechanical engineering. I just wanted to say thank you for the guidance.
Don't know how advisable that is with colleges the way they are now. I would be vague and not mention guns.
@@stephen4401 If he goes to Purdue like Ian they won't care. Half of the economy of Indiana consists of selling guns to Chicago. Some of gun stores even have MGs on sale. Got your class 3 and AMEX Black, it's yours.
I very much agree with your description of french firearms and the development process that makes them unique. Going to save for your book. A very interesting subject and I believe your the guy to do it right. I hope you include a list of your favorites and why at the end of the book.
Huge fan of the channel! I love these q&a videos because I can listen to them like podcasts. I know they take a long time to make, but I'd love to see more! I'm about to become a patron supporter, thanks for all you do!
French had the MAS44 as a replacement to RSC in any form, but fell of France to Germany in 1940 prevented them from adopting it, MAS44s could only roll out to servicemen after the St Etienne was liberated and Paris was taken back. It in fact saw a lot of service in Indochina War and was pretty much the standard issue in its updated form until the adoption of FAMAS in 1978-79.
I’ve been waiting for something like this! Great.
Just wanted to say I really enjoy these Q&As. Particularly ones that are focused on a particular topic.
Finally, the video I've been waiting for.
I love how you and I share all our favorite guns from question one
Re: pronunciation and spelling
Have you ever yet endeavoured
To pronounce revered and severed,
Demon, lemon, ghoul, foul, soul,
Peter, petrol and patrol?
Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which exactly rhymes with khaki.
Discount, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward,
Ricocheted and crocheting, croquet?
Right! Your pronunciation's OK.
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.
Is your r correct in higher?
Keats asserts it rhymes Thalia.
Hugh, but hug, and hood, but hoot,
Buoyant, minute, but minute.
@sman7290 No, the problem is that English spelling and English pronunciation are distant relatives at best ever since the great vowel shift.
The Great Vowel Shift. It sounds like a cataclysmic linguistic event!
@@Zorglub1966 it kind of was and it's quite an interesting subject if you are interested in language at all.
I am. Changes and languages histories are fascinating.
I found this comparison between english and french
English
25 consonnants
13 short vowels
5 long vowels
8 diphtongs
5 triphtongs
56 phonemes
12 different pronunciations for A
11 different pronunciations for U
9 different pronunciations for E
Mute vowels
The sound[u] can be written in 18 different ways
And the tonic accent can change a word's signification
French
23 consonnants
16 short vowels
No more long vowels
The number of diphtongs is debated
No triphtongs
No tonic accents
39 phonemes
Cool video and again I learned somethong new. My hope is the MAS 40 to 56 is covered in detail. Pictures in the field are always apreciated. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Remington's spiral tube design ended up being the best way to have spitzer projectiles in a tube magazine, without needing excessive taper or a rim.
I've seen elsewhere that the MAS 49/56 is seriously underrated. Not exactly a modern rifle but after a war dominated by the M1 Garand it makes perfect sense.
Hahaha that intro was spot on! Your accent is getting much better, the work you've put in really shows! Keep it up :D
I would have expected one of the RSCs as your favorite french rifle
Awsome project Ian !
I can understand and appreciate your devotion to French Small Arms, and your reasoning and justification. I can vividly recall the ads in the 70s and 80s in Shotgun News and other publications in which various French firearms were very affordable. Rather like the pricing when the surplus SKS's first hit the market.
If it's any help with learning French Ian try listening to French tv, radio, films ect. Just to get more used to the rate of speech. You might just find you'll recognise some of the words even if you've got subtitles on. It's something I use since I'm learning as well currently.
Merci pour votre implication sur le terrain des armes françaises
Another great Q&A, keep up the great work.
I think part of bullpup's being adopted was them moving away from battle riffles.
The FAL / L1A1 is nearly 45 inches long with only a 22" barrel.
The F88 (AUG) is 35" with a 20" barrel, so way more practical for vehicular use, there's also a 16" carbine version in service.
The other option they could have gone for is the Aussie made Lithgow Arms / Thales F90 modern AUG version. Aus has adopted this in the last couple of years.
Good Q&A - thanks Ian :)
expected a FRF2 video... got one hour for Q&A ,not disappointed!
Great job man! I really hope to see an in depth episode about the Mauser 1910, 1914 and 1934 pistols! Only you can do something good enough!
Arrrrr! With that magnificent golden-touch bathrobe, dear Ian, flintlock pistols would be the right kind of accessory i believe. A true pirate. Thanks for all the vids as usual...guess what, now i am really looking forward for german edition q&a...anything on the radar? or did i miss anything? Keep up the good work !
Thank You for your efforts, love your workv
As a Mle 1935 A owner Can not agree more about your love of this beautyfull and avangarde masterpiece.....so sad no manufacturer produces this Amazing cartridge anymore...keep up the good work !!!
I will definitely buy your book.
A collage from Othias and Mae on white. That's all you need. C'est parfait.
First thing i thought when i saw the thumbnail: "French Q&A21? I've never heard about that weapon" I'm an idiot.
+Tyrion Lannister - I nearly did the same thing - after all, it does look plausible; it could be the designation of a French firearm.
As a non-native English speaker, I'd imagine that learning French would be much easier for a native English speaker. Learning English made me understand written French (and other Romance languages like Italian) much better because of all the Latin words that are common in English and French. On the other hand, as a native German speaker, learning English wasn't that hard for me because of all the Germanic core words in the English language.
One thing to remember regarding FN, the US contracts them not just for machine guns but also the manufacture of M4 carbines and M16 rifles, so France I think *could* have gone that route, but their choice is just fine as well as far as I can see.
Damn! Saw the thumbnail, didn't read the title and got very excited.
Well, it will come eventually.
0:13 The rubber band's gone rogue!
As for the FRF1, I found it substandard. In my not-so-humble, but very informed, opinion, it did not offer enough improvement on the scoped MAS 49/56 to justify such a huge cost. Any good quality hunting carbine of the time shot better and more consistently. The scope was unimpressive, and so was the bipod .
+The Swiss Gunsmith - Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us. :-)
There is no substitute for experience.
Thanks Ian. Am intrigued by the AANF light MG. Also AA52. Bit of a mystery. Now mainy phased out, replaced by MAG 58. Although i did see one on a coast guard vessel in Nice harbour recently.
39:15 I think it’s also important to remember that it was critical for any new cartridge to be functional in heavy machine guns. The Hotchkiss was still the standard HMG in 1940, chambered in 8 Lebel.
An intermediate cartridge would’ve been nice in the rifle, but that would’ve necessitated a second new round for the HMGs to ensure long range effectiveness and penetration.
About french gun's book's, Jean Huon wrote several book's in english language as is famous "Proud Promise" about french semi-auto and assault rifles.
37:15 I happen to know a small part of what Châtellerault did during WWII: they were making bayonets, specifically K98k bayonets, from 1941-44. I have one of those, the manufacturer code is "jwh". But they didn't make all that many of them (according to one table I found, the Châtellerault bayonets are the second-rarest of all the WWII production varieties), so they must have been doing other stuff as well.
When you speak about a particular gun, you should've put an image of the gun i' the video because even though i'm a fan of the channel and can picture a few guns you mention, it's still nice to have a little visual
Oooh Ian writes books too! So, you are gun Jesus and a writer! That's awesome dude 👍👍
Years ago I fell in love with rhe MAS 49/56. My first was one of the butchered .308 Century Arms rifle. I loved it but, the quality of the conversion was problematic. Next I got a pristine '84 re-arsenaled 49/56. It's gorgeous and so fun to shoot. Last, I got my baby, a fairly low numbered MAS Mle 1944. I just love these rifles.
There actually were some air cooled versions of the Maxim: the Germans had the the lMG 08 (lowercase "L" for "luftgekühlt" = air cooled) and the LMG08/15 (uppercase "L" for "Luft", "air") which were airplane guns, and the lMG 08/18 (lowercase "L", this time for "leicht" = light) for infantry. In Finland, Aimo Lahti developed an air cooled AA version, known as the 7,62 ITKK 31 and the improved 7,62 ITKK 31-40, which had an accelerator to increase the cyclic rate to 900 rpm, a close-fitting shroud as on the Lahti-Saloranta LMG, and a thicker barrel and barrel climb limiting muzzle brake on the 31-40 version. Of course, these weren't intended for continuous fire.
One might also note that the French weren't the only WW1 participant using non-Maxim machine guns. The Austro-Hungarian Schwarzlose was a unique construction using a toggle-delayed blowback system and thus had a fixed barrel that avoided the necessity of maintaining the greased asbestos tape seals front and back on the water jackets of typical Maxim types with their reciprocating short-recoil barrels.
"Ah! Mes amis ! Bienvenue à 'Armes Oubliées' "
Ok, I really wasn't ready for Ian speaking french :)
But somehow, you managed to say that very nicely.
17:50 The best way to practise your listening (provided you don't have a native speaker to assist you) is TV/radio/TH-cam/podcasts. If your listening comprehension is still low, focus on stuff that offers subtitles in the language that is spoken (TV channels often do, and things like 'news in easy language' are also common) first, then gradually broaden your scope as you progress (i.e. up to highly conversational unscripted shows where people don't care about good articulation). Variety is important.
Speaking is always the hardest language skill to master, and you really need to regularly have meaningful conversations in the language to get any good at it (meaning that you'd have to assess if you really need this, because this is a large investment that might have very narrow uses if you don't live in a country where the language is spoken).
as a frenchman watching this video on 2023, i must say that Ian was a bit optimistic on the fact that "most" french soldier uses the valorisé FAMAS with an modern optic on it, despite the current replacement by the HK416, a LOT of the infantrymen are still being issued the old school F1 FAMAS and have no other choice than to put an rail and an optic on top of the overgrown carry handle that isn't meant to be used as a carry handle in the first place (the drill sargents will yell at you if you use it as a carry handle)
your french is very nice Ian! great video too!
34:36 Wait! There _is_ one other theme in French rifles, and that is the two-piece stock. The Lebel, RSC, MAS 39, 44, 49, and even those FRF-1 and 2 rifles use two-piece stocks!
+TheGoldenCaulk - the Berthier is a one-piece stock.
Re: Gatling guns during the Franco-Prussian war, APX made weird 8mm Lebel guns in 1895. Concerning the Reffye, it didn't fire the 11mm Chassepot cartridge but a 13x87mm one, which had a completely adequate range from what I read. The real problem was the lack of traverse; meaning it would put 25 holes in a nice square a mile away which is not how you use a machine gun.
So cute watching Ian's face light up talking about this
Bonjour Ian. Je te trouvais déjà extrêmement clair dans ta prononciation de l'anglais, si bien que même en tant que français je suis ta chaîne depuis bien longtemps. Cette vidéo m'a surpris ! Tu ressembles a un mousquetaire, au passage. J'espère que tu traduiras ton livre en français et qu'il sera disponible sur notre marché. (I hope you will translate the book to french language and make it available on our market !)
Ian you have yet to do the video on the Greek gras conversion?
My local gun shop has an 1873 for sale. It's in great condition.
Ian's French accent sounds exactly like mine which makes me happy for some reason.
27:34 The Felene' outfitting looks a lot like what we've seen done to DMR type rifles during Vietnam with the first generation Starlight scopes. And that was fifty years ago. Not very inspiring. But we've also put on just as bulky stuff more recently now and again over the years.
If pre-order’s for the fancy schmancy copy of the book with the bells and whistles and autograph go nuts and sell out would you consider a second batch if there’s interest? I’m a big fan of yours and very eager to learn more about firearms but my work leaves me places without access to the internet often enough and I’m afraid I’ll miss it coming live before they’re sold out.
Since we're talking about French stuff... In the late 50's Mattel sold a toy cap-firing automatic rifle they called the Firebolt. Except for its fanciful simulated perforated barrel jacket, the design seems to be based on, or borrows heavily from, the French MAS 54C rifle. I find it interesting that American toy designers would be following French small arms development so closely.
Ian more pics of what you are talking about please. I find that I stop and google search to get a better understanding.
merci de sauver notre patrimone a notre place ;) .nos lois sont tellement pourries
Presque aussi pourries que ceux qui les font.
Regarding your favorite pistol, did you ever look at the Manurhin MR73? Great story to tell, especially how the GIGN stormed that plane armed with nothing but these 6-shooters, lost zero men and killed all the terrorists. And... I'm the French guy you met at Rio.
You should get the Famas official optic the Scrome J4.
Note that the Felin scope is also really heavy. But I heard that the infrared capability was very useful
When he's speaking french, it looks a like a french who is making fun of Chinese accent xD
Exactly!
Keep at it with the French. Perhaps find a tutor who can help with grammar. Vocab is easier than ever with the internet, but I recommend writing down words neatly on paper and reading them out loud from time to time. At least in your research you don't need an excessively wide vocabulary to read and understand. I was fortunate enough to learn French until the end of high school, and contemplating taking it back up in order to teach. By the way, French spelling is extremely regular compared to English. Learning the pronunciation gives you auditory memory, which consolidates the written memory; it's all connected. Good luck.
I think you forgot the thales F90 which wasn't adopted by france as military weapon (they'll get H&K416) but still thales is a french company that produces a military bulbup rifle.
About France and weapons :
- The RSC 1918 was used a little bit after WW1, during the Rif War, but the semi-auto mechanism was desactivated because officers were worried the consumption of ammo
- Until april 1939, it was easy to buy a gun in France, maybe as much as a baguette. But in 1939, the governement was aware the war against Germany would be soon, and they were afraid that communists start a revolution just after the beginning of the war. So they decided to make anti-gun laws (they said it would be temporary). Of course, the Vichy governement hardened them (sentence of death if you kept a gun). After the war, the new governement was a bit afraid of a civil war between the Armée Secrète and the FTP (Francs Tireurs Partisans, communists). They tried to get back all the guns.
- France had 3 revolutions : 1789 (the Bastille Day), 1830 and 1848. After that, there was the Commune in Paris, at the end of Franco-Prussian War of 1870. The french democracy is a bit like "I have more than 50% ? Ok now I do what I want". Of course our politicians are scared to be shot down like the 2 presidents Sadi Carnot (1894) and Paul Doumer (1932), that's why they don't want to come back to before 1939. And of course, anti-gun laws don't prevent criminals to get some full auto weapons, mostly AKs from ex-Yugoslavia. It clearly means these laws are against civilians and not criminals.
About the Félin program: In a squad, generally only a couple of guys are equipped with the complete optical suite, the rest of them only have Eotechs. That way, the squad keeps its mobility and ability to engage close range targets as well as longer range targets. In practice, The Félin guys fill the gap between the FAMAS and the FRF2/HK 417.
That decision falls to the squad leader.
Have you done anything on the AA52 at all? Curious about that one.
J'espère qu'il y aura une version française de son livre.
I hope there will be a french version of his book.
By the way, nice french accent ^^
Btw, pre-ordered your book today.
Nice mug!
Merci Yann pour cet épisode sur les armes française !
Ah,mes amis ! Bienvenue à 'Armes Oubliées'! . I understand that 😀
Hey Ian, you should try putting a picture of french soldiers throughout the ages with each of the main military weapons they would have had.
+Paul Rothstein -- what a great idea!
When the video starts and Ian looks like a steampunk dystopia dictator.
hello Yann, here is a possibility to see a french transelete of your book ? ps : i raelly lyke your work and i hope you lucke for your book and your channel.
Ah, the 1873 Chamelot-Delvigne. A favorite of mine, too, as is the 1935 pistol.
Why? Because French firearms are just about the coolest thing since Genesis. Oh, and France is a very nice place too.
What do you think about GIGN adoption of CZ Brens in 7.62x39? Do you think that french army would prefer heavier intermediete cardtige than 5.56 like 7.62x39, but it's obligated to use it by NATO?
GIGN wanted a larger cartridge for its stopping power in close quarters, the choice went to the CZ Bren because of its compact size. The operational requirement behind this is that when you have a terrorist running at you with an explosive belt in a corridor, you want something powerful to stop him dead in his tracks. Not really a major concern of the French Army in general however.
"a combat rifle that has 35 years service life, it was time for a new rifle" So they chose a variant of the M16 that is going on 60 years of service life.
I've been working on Gaelic for 20 years Ian, and yes, I've the same issue of being much better at reading and translating ovee hearing it spoken and translating. I think it's because we're starting later in life.
Have you considered offering a discount on the first edition (or autographed copy) if one pays in advance, i.e. right now? That would be win-win for all involved; it would allow viewers to help cover production costs in return for a premium.
49:00 Colt Canada would be entirely credible, they are volume producing C8 and have recent large scale contracts for small arms. The Danish Army use Colt Canada C7A and C8A rifles and the British use it as the L119A2 in large numbers.
Fedaykin24 wiki says they made 200k plus in 34 years. (Colt Canada /diameco) so average 5900 per year? Not much really...
2:51 : Ian, you've never had the chance to try the AAT-52 machine gun? They're probably next to impossible to find other than in the French Army, or in the army of a former French colony, though.
now that you've mentioned it, what is your opinion of the VHS rifle? Having served with both versions, I'd really be interested in what you think of it.
in terms of the french military contract, it was basically dead in the water, as i don't see the HS factory being able to build it in the numbers that the french would want
The Hon Hon is upon us.