SHOWDOWN: 2023 Supra Manual vs 2023 Civic Type R
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2023
- Use code TST60 to get 60% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3F3ObDY
Thanks Factor for Sponsoring!
Every year, there are fewer and fewer affordable, engaging enthusiast cars on the road, so each time a new one comes out, it’s worth a more in-depth look. The MK5 Toyota Supra has been on the road for nearly three years now, but finally, for 2023, it’s offered in a manual transmission, making it more “enthusiastic” than ever. And we have the all-new 2023 Honda Civic Type R, a car that’s earned praise from across the automotive spectrum for its inputs, pace, and redesigned exterior. Matt and Zack hit the canyons with these two similarly-priced enthusiast cars to celebrate them and compare which is better.
Check out our podcast:
open.spotify.com/show/4nl2Rna...
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
/ thesmokingtirepodcast
*Affordable is of course a relative term, and that's before you factor in ADM. According to KBB, the average price paid for a new car in 2022 was over $48,000.
#cars #supra #civictyper
Use Off The Record! and ALWAYS fight your tickets! Enter code TST10 for a 10% discount on your first case on the Off The Record app, or go to off-the-record.sjv.io/c/27655...
Want to watch the live stream, get ad-free podcasts, or exclusive podcasts? Join our Patreon: / thesmokingtirepodcast
Follow us!
/ thesmokingtire
/ therealzackklapman
Check out our PODCAST! Over 100,000 listeners and counting!
TH-cam: / thesmokingtirepodcast
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4nl2Rna...
Apple podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Google Podcasts: podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0...
NEW SHIRTS!
www.blipshift.com/tst
Heartbreaking by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
“Things are Going Southampton” by Verified Picasso
“Berlin at Night” - Dan Henig
“Danger Snow” - Dan Henig
“Dream a Day” - Density & Time
“Thank You R.G.E.” - Joe Bagel
“Compressor Works Twang” - Max McFerren
“Not For Nothing” - Otis McDonald
“Le Freak” - RAGE
“Stars and Constellations” - Sarah, The Instrumentalist - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Use code TST60 to get 60% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3F3ObDY
Thanks Factor for Sponsoring!
11:05 wait isn't honda fl5 sound fake via Honda Active Sound Control (tm)?
What unique sound is he talking about??
I like the two cars but I prefer you both in the vehicle at the same time.
I like the format. Good to use for some comparisons.
This was awesome. I miss the banter but overall super informative and entertaining stuff.
Love the format. Please please do this
How do you guys like this format?
Ace!
I miss some of the unrehearsed chemistry you guys have in things like Two Takes. I’m skeptical about the CTR due to its limited production and not enamored with it as an affordable pick.
I like comparisons but the music is distracting to me. I also skipped the podcast section because I didn’t want to hear it again or skip it when I get to the podcast
I like this quite a bit. Excited to see it continue
I’d prefer you add background music to the studio part of the video, and have the car be the music during the driving commentary..
Guys more of this format! This was awesome. The intro with Matt brought me back to the OG days. Production was great and love the in-studio breakdown afterwards. More more more!
Awesome!
I agree
Comparisons are awesome you could even add in some new affordable enthusiast cars that have been modified like ECU tunes etc or with simple affordable bolt ons...
Could approach the suppliers of these add-ons and then find people with the vehicles to addon too: make the content around it. I bet you would have insane views on stuff like that👌
Really enjoyed this format, hope they can do something like this with the new Emira and the C8 Stingray or maybe 911 Carrera
felt like /tuned again.
This was great. 🤟🏼 keep it up!
I'm a A90 supra owner and agreed with the format and review completely. It was honest and very respectful towards both cars. In my opinion they are different cars with different purposes.
I've been thinking of trading on my 4 runner for a CTR and keep my A90 project. Thanks again for the review and the feedback!
I enjoyed the new format, seems the semi scripted conversation works well for you guys and it flows more naturally from y’all than other channels utilizing something similar :) I’m not personally in love with how the music plays in/out but I see what y’all are going for.
The music is not bad, but it could use better editing. Don't put music in sections where you're actually discussing the car (vs. making Clarkson-eque exclamations of vehicular-induced excitement), and don't put it into a beat where it's only playing for 5 seconds. Other than that, I think the music does add some flavor and feel to exterior shots.
Affordable, before the 10k-20k mark-up.
Exactly.
Not even. They MSRP close to the average new vehicle price but that's only because that includes mostly SUVs and trucks
@@nah3193 So you aren't comparing apples to apples then?
That Type R was at Least $70k, the Supra $70k
This format was so much fun! A very entertaining change up from the normal format! I enjoy the extra personality in it! I think that’s what made original TG so engaging is making fun of things, throwing a personality twist on things, and really just saying what you think! I especially like the studio break down at the end! Keep it up!!!
Love that you guys are taking a shot and trying to make the type of content you always talk about wanting to make. Great choice on cars aswell very different approaches to the same end goal with different priorities. Also love that you guys include a studio segment as it leans into how killer you guys perform in studio for the podcast.
Overall really like the new format, feels like a mashup of one take and the podcast. I think head 2 head comparison really helps bring out the details on a car more than just a one take. The only things I would change is a few less back and forth in the driving section so that each segment in one car is a bit longer. The other small thing would be to reduce the volume of the music in the driving sections.
Yeah, music felt very early 2000s action flick
Agreed re: hearing more of the car's operation.
really enjoyed this format, I think a 50/50 balance of this and the normal would work really well
Thank you for making this content! Having a history with manual Minis, GTI's and a BMW M235i, I love this category of compact affordable sporty cars. Sad to see them go as time goes on, but thanks Matt and Zac for highlighting what makes them so great.
Love the format! I feel like the end with the scoreboard and podcast studio talk really ties it all in nicely and let’s us have some of that camaraderie from two takes that I love . I do feel that the background music needs to be ironed out but it has its place in some parts of the video with dialogue. Love the new format overall.
Motortrend dropped the ball when they cancelled H2H, loved it! Hope you guys do more like this one!
Great job on this head to head / top gear type format. You guys killed it. We want more please.
I would absolutely enjoy seeing more videos in this format. Good stuff, guys!
Digging the throwback format and the addition of the podcast ending!
Love this video guys! The breakdown at the end was excellent as well. Hope to see more in this format. I looked at both of these as a third car but ultimately thought neither was special in a significant way so I bought a low mile C6 Z06 and couldn't be happier.
that ls7 sounds so good
@@thehumanoid6543 💯Mine is ridiculous with 2" SW headers X Pipe and Borla Atak exhaust!
Some people struggling to have one car lol blessed dude. Enjoy the c6, amazing cars
@@shad3128 I'm very thankful for everything I've worked for and proud to owe nothing on them at 32. Many blessings your way! The C6 has been great so far, my Evo is still king of the garage though haha
This format is great. Cool to see you guys trying new stuff. I love the old style as well. I’m just happy to hear you two talk about and drive fast cars.
Love this VS video. Please do more! Love the format! Thanks ST ☺️
Love the new format!
Think it's "just" a special video. There were others in the past.
I like this format! Fun drive and good info/discussion in the studio. Thanks guys!
Really enjoyed this format, it's fun and concise. Would love to see more of this from you guys!
The format was great, thoroughly enjoyed the entire video - especially the back and forth commentary between you two.
Really liked the format. Some great shots in this video. The conclusion you guys came to was entertaining and very funny . A steady cam rig for the walk around or tripod for the panning shots would be the only criticism. I hope this format gets more algorithm traction. I would love to see a combo of this format and one takes with maybe an annual all cars style special. Good luck guys
Nice video! It's quite fun that you compare two very different cars. I haven't seen others do that
Very well done boys! Excellent content. Thanks for you hard work on providing us with these. We appreciate it.
Love the format! Talking while driving at pace is what you guys do best!
Only affordable stick shift I know of is the mazda miata. Both the supra and the type R are selling for porsche money from the dealerships because of markups, so you're better off just buying a manual porsche instead of a supra or type R.
Civic Si, GR86, Veloster N?
you can get the Supra MT if you're diligent. Have a buddy that walked into a dealer here and bought one a couple weeks later for right around msrp. That said, Type R is a different story, as-is the GR Corolla.
I’d never buy a Porsche unless you can afford to maintain one. Paying 5-8k over MSRP for the FL5 (dealers are selling them at this price you just need to find them) is the better option. It’s cheaper to maintain, track, and still holds its value when you go to resell it.
WRX stick shift, light as the type R, handles, drives and practicality on par or very close to the R. Easy tune leaves the R in the dust. AWD an icing on the cake.
@@marcinfil3673 from a value perspective the WRX is awesome. Right out of the box with no mods, I’d rather spend the money on an older FK8. AWD is nice if you live up north, otherwise it’s just added weight and loss of power to the drivetrain.
Loved this new format! Adds dynamism and makes it more entertaining. You should also consider reuniting back at the studio after a review, to chat about the car and make comparisons with some sort of scoreboard.
I'm digging the format. Yes, please do some more like this, but not exclusively. Awesome job!👍
Very interesting change of pace. Loved it. Keep it up guys, looking forward about hearing how this video did in the podcast.
i'm only half way through the video so far and this might be my fav video you have ever done, would love to see more videos like this format! I can tell you put a ton of effort into this one and I appreciate it!
Thanks for this vid, really enjoyed it!
I’m a looooong subscriber (I think I subbed after S4 vs RS4 comparison yeeeears ago), so this brings back memories. I always loved your „budget Top Gear” productions back then, but understandably it wasn’t sustainable. I hope to see more videos like this one, it seems like both of you enjoyed making it quite a bit!
One suggestion would be for you to be both in the car you are discussing at the moment, I feel like some chemistry was lost there.
I honestly hope this change in format pays off. I love you guys. I like when you change things up to see what works and doesn't work. Been a fan since at least the ~2008 Civic Si Hatch video. It was the first youtube I watched on broadband internet. lol
Love this! Would be cool to see you guys drive both cars into WCCS…help the transition from car to conference
Regarding the anticipated Ring time for the GR Supra (7 min 40sec) by the Chief Engineer, this was in reference to the first year GR Supra with the 335rwhp B58. The 2021MY+ GR Supra with the 382rwhp B58 and revised suspension/steering/differential tuning should be notably quicker.
Love this hybrid format!
I think the rapport we've come to like from the podcast and two-takes works really well here. The in-studio wrap up is my favorite addition, since I love hearing about these cars in the podcast eps. Here, we get a bit of variation and a more 'rigid' and 'polished' version of chatting on the podcast.
Personally, I love the VO intro, classic comparo format, and I honestly haven't watched some TST vids (the new SL comes to mind - just not a relatable car to me), but I'd be way more inclined to watch with this format and if you did SL vs. M8 to get more bang for my buck and a more entertaining vid.
Excellent job and I love how y'all continue to evolve.
I LOVE this format! I hope to see more like this in the future
Awesome video as always guys, been watching for 10 years! Love this new format, reminds me of some of the old stuff, keep up the great work :)
I like the dual reviewer head to head format.
Very nice detail review about both of these cars,which are in my shopping list thanks guys and keep up the good work !
I think some better field audio would go a long way for this. Getting the little noises like door closing, cold starts and exhaust notes kind of builds the characters of the cars more. Maybe do a half-time meet up where you can both stop on the mountain and discuss the feelings in the moment of each car?
Play around with the structure while the format is still new and have fun! Thanks as always for the videos guys.
Affordable!?
Relatively I guess. It is a Civic
Anything 100k is affordable these days lol
It's all relative
They go over relative affordability in the first minute of the video
anything 100k is affordable. broke 20year old mentality for used $5k 240s and e36s isn't realistic anymore. A loaded new camry is like 30-40k MSRP now, you think performance vehicles will be 20k new? fucking trolling. expect 40-80k for anything decent nowadays unless u buying used dogshit
I guess nowadays $50k + markup cars are being considered affordable
Sadly that’s the world we live in now
Haha. True. Fuckin ridiculous
Brok boys or? If you make over 150 yearly it is affordable easily
@@quentonmillstid850 so people making less than $150k are “brok boys”?
You say that like it’s a totally normal average salary 😂
Supra needs a couple of little seats in the back for kids
MORE OF THIS FORMAT PLEASE AND THANK YOU!!! Love OneTakes, but this felt fresh and genuine.
Really enjoyed this format! I think a bit more of a one-take vibe mixed in with this style would be perfect 👌
The type r looks really good.
Best looking civic ever
Love this format! Honestly I’ve always driven manuals but I still love my 22 Supra and its 8speed auto. I think it’s an incredible transmission and that car wasn’t made to be a stick.. I think it’s great they did!! Personally I’d rather buy 997 Porsche 911 (or an s2000) as a second car than trade my Supra in for a manual. I’ve been spoiled by some incredible manual transmissions in previous cars and if I’m gonna buy another I want it to be the best manual you can buy sub 100k 😂 as always love the channel!
love this format. i love that its kind of raw footage compiling. makes it feel legit.
Well done guys. Loved this format.
Supra power is insanely underrated. It feels like at least a 420hp 420tq car
The b58 has a great torque curve 🔥🔥
Saw stock 2021 Dyno 410wtq
I’m glad you made this and all other videos. The market for enthusiasts is shrinking you’re on point about that. Just watched your onslaught of c5 vette videos and watching this channel age gracefully is amazing! Keep it up gentlemen. 🤙
Really enjoyed this new format! More of this please!
Because either vehicle would be a 2nd car for me, I would choose the Supra. While the engine is more common, I subjectively just think it sounds so good with simply an aftermarket downpipe. All other comparisons seem rather close. Also, I know Matt really did not care for the 2021 auto Supra, so looks like Toyota made some worthwhile updates.
If the civic was easier to obtain (huge dealer waitlists), I would be tempted to get the R. But, currently I’m 2nd in line to get the Supra so I will stick with that! Both awesome cars, props to both manufacturers for spending time developing their enthusiast vehicle’s inputs and feedback
Awesome video guys! I absolutely love the Supra styling, and the bmw platform/engine really doesn’t bother me. The platform and the B58 are definitely capable of handling way more power. But, it’s like Matt said, it’s not special enough for a second car and my kids and dog wouldn’t be happy with the practicality.
Nice work guys! Love the new format, refreshing change.
love the video guys keep this format going!!
Please review/revisit the 6th Gen Camaro SS 1LE. NA V8 + Tremac TR6060 + MagneRide + eLSD + proper oil/trans/diff cooling + no dealer markup + great dealer support all across North America! :)
I own a 2018 SS 1LE manual and it is absolutely amazeballs. Randy Pobst and the Throttle House boys love it as well.
Exactly!
That asterisk in the title is doing a LOT of heavy lifting, lol. What a time to be a plebe car guy...
I enjoyed this format! Look forward to more videos like this!
I like this format! Your One Take/Two Take vids are great, but this is a refreshing change!
Matt and Zack should be paid millions to have their own TVshow!! These videos are awesome! I mean the good ol' one-takes are amazing and they are a great known quantity, but these videos are awesome! Keep it up guys!! Hopefully this one takes off haha
The format could work if there weren’t cheesy music and it were less scripted. One thing I’ve always loved about TST is how real you guys are. This scripted stuff takes away from TST imo.
+1 for the new format. It blends the one and two takes and the podcast very well.
Very entertaining new format! Great job! Thanks!
Good stuff. I went with the Type R for the same reasons...un-paralleled practicality, controls, and visibility in a performance car.
"Performance" 😂
@@kobedabest Chris Harris has driven every car that exists and in 24 hours le mans and he says it’s one of the greatest cars he’s ever driven.
This format needs a little work, a little refinement, but the increase in production value is a welcome change to the TST reviews. The podcast has often had some more insightful analysis of a car than the videos have, so this merging of the platforms works very well.
The hosts are self righteous pricks. Get rid of them and this program will get 100% better.
This was a perfect video in this format. Not too much music, you both gave the cars a chance to talk, amd you didn't cut the action clips too short. Bravo, gentlemen.👏
I personally really enjoyed the 'comparison' format and friendly banter between you guys, I think you have a great dynamic together (hence why I listen to the podcast) and offer some varied perspectives.
Umm yeah that 2.0 in the Type R is in the accord and Acura suvs as well. Granted it may be slightly detuned and have a smaller Turbo in the other applications but it's definitely not just in the type R. Yes I know Acura and Honda are parent companies.
If it has a different turbo, pistons, crankshafts, etc it's not really the same motor. If they're built on the same block but the internals are different then they have to be differentiated.
@@deathcab4bootythe Acura Integra Type S will have the Type R motor
but it's not in the Accord and Acura SUVs in the Type R configuration like Brandon suggested, which was my point
@@deathcab4booty got u
I don't care that the Honda "won", but just because the Supra has a BMW engine that isn't unique to just the Supra is ridiculous. Everyone seems to agree that it has a great engine. Isn't that all that really counts?
The Supra is probably more available than the CTR. It is also way underrated in HP.
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucksdo you really want a 1,000 Supra for the street? That’s going to be undrivable in normal situations. If you are talking about a Mojave Mile car I get it, but I have no need for that much power in a Supra.
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks true, but I blew a head gasket in my stock 4th gen Supra TT back in the 1990s, so anything can happen. 😜
I appreciate this new format. Especially the studio segment at the end.
Love the format, great job you two keep up the good work ✊🏾👍🏾
In terms of being fast on a road course, C&D lightning lap had the old CTR at 3:00.7. The 2020 Supra did a 3:01.4, and the '21 did a 2:59.3. The manual is unlikely to have made the Supra faster, but has the Type R gotten 1.4s faster around VIR? I'd say probably so.
That’s the Civic on R compound tires. Put R-compound tires on the Supra and it will drop 2-3 seconds per lap. Or just buy a Camaro SS 1LE that easily beats both of these cars by a significant margin for $45K.
@@GrimSRT8 Cup 2s are definitely not R comps, but I see your point nonetheless.
@@GrimSRT8 Also, an SS 1LE is really only a rival on the race track, which most people really just aren't going to. Plus, if we're talking tires, the 1LE comes on very sticky 220TW Supercar 3s. In the real world, the Supra is just as fast light to light, weighs a lot less, and gets way better fuel economy. Plus, it'll be right up there on the same tire for lap times. The back seat brings it back to the Camaro a little bit, but you just can't see out of the damn things, and it's 8" longer than the Supra.
@@noobasdfjkl a road course represents all street performance: handling, acceleration, braking, transitioning, etc. There is no better representation of performance than lap times, and the Camaro SS 1LE solidly beats the Supra 3.0 on the track. Go look at the gap on Lightning Lap, and they never tested the updated 2019+ SS 1LE with the A10 that would post even faster times. GM says the 2019+ SS 1LE would drop 3 seconds from the lap.
Some comments from MotorTrend on the SS 1LE after it was lapped on Willow Springs, “The list of cars the Camaro went faster than should embarrass some OEMs: Porsche Cayman GT4, 2014 Audi R8 V10 Plus, Ferrari 458 Italia. I mean, come on! To put it bluntly, the Camaro is in another league, with legitimate supercars.” and went on to say, “Chevy has done the near impossible, transcended the genre, and turned a once provincial pony car into an honest to goodness world-class sports car. This $46,000 miracle punches so far above its weight that I'm in danger of saying weird things that could easily be taken out of context. Such as, if I were an engineer at BMW or even Porsche, I'd be clearing off my drawing boards.”
In an article where MotorTrend was comparing the Supra 3.0 to the Nissan Z, they took time to tell the readers to go buy the Camaro SS 1LE, not either of the cars in the test! They make the point that the Camaro drives much better than the Supra or Z, while being less expensive and faster.
As for tires, the Supra and SS 1LE use similar types of tires- Ultra High Performance Summer tires, Michelin for the Supra and Goodyears for the 1LE. When I get new tires on my 1LE, I’ll likely be getting Michelin PS4S.
If you think visibility is better in the Supra than the Camaro, I’d be shocked. Plus the Camaro has a camera mirror you can get that gets rid of all blind spots. I’m not sure if the Supra does as well, but I’ve driven sports cars for 30+ years and visibility in the Camaro is not significantly worse than other sports cars. It’s no worse than my Corvette. Maybe it’s different for me as I’m tall.
On top of all of this, the Camaro is *considerably* less money than the Supra. So, you you may get slightly better fuel economy in the Supra, but the $10K price difference pays for a ton of gas! The SS 1LE will also cost less to insure and cost less to maintain.
So what advantage does the Supra have? The Camaro performs better, drives better (according to the professionals), and costs significantly less. And this is coming from a guy who has owned 3 Supra Turbos in his life, and never a single Camaro until now.
If the Supra was a better car, I would have bought it.
I think what it really comes down to is what people like beginning with the styling, then moving into the features and mechanics, then further into the track details. In my opinion, the CTR is better than both the Camaro and Supra, simply because it's a do-it-all vehicle with four doors and does pretty damn well at everything. However, I can appreciate both the Camaro and Supra for what they are - both amazing vehicles.
Enjoy your Camaro to the fullest, brother!
Camaro SS/1LE > Zupra... 7 times from Sunday.
I’d chose the supra over a camaro 7 days a week .
Great video. I was waiting for this comparison. I like the format. Here’s a couple of suggestions. First, have each driver drive both cars in the same video. Second, and most importantly, I’d like you answer, which one is more fun to drive? The latter is probably the only metric I can about. As you alluded to, it doesn’t matter about numbers, it’s about the style of the car and experience for me. I hope that helps. Thanks guys!
Loved the format more than one takes, way more content per minute since it seems more prepared
For everyone arguing about “affordable”. Yes they are relatively affordable for a new enthusiast vehicle. Cars have gotten exponentially more complex over the past 10 years with new safety standards and technology. And considering the average new price of a car is $48,000 I would consider them affordable for the modern era. (Without pesky adm ofc haha)
Is that purchased new vehicles? Or based on 80 mo leases people take out as they dig themselves into debt? I wonder what median vehicle price is 🤔
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks you plan hitting ctrl-c ctrl-v for every comment that talks about the prices?
@@papa_pt that’s skewed higher due to the lack of supply in the used car market. Anyone that takes out a loan longer than the warranty is a fool. And even then buying a new car is dumb in most cases because of how much and how quick they depreciate.
Affordable, what a joke
Compared to what?
In their category
Really enjoyed this format!
Great video as always! I really dig this new format also!
Absolutely love this format… it’s not apples to apples but it’s definitely helpful for those looking for a daily or a second toy.
Great video! Love this format
Love the format. Would love more of these
I'm more of a listener to the podcast than anything, but I enjoyed this format a lot! I liked having both the in car banter (because I enjoy you and Zack), but also having the more concise, honest comparison at the end. I would watch more stuff like this!
This was awesome! Definitely need more of these!
This format is excellent!! Please do more! Thanks for the reviews guys
This is a 10/10 video format. I am honestly in love with both cars.
Format is awesome, enjoyed the video a lot.
I like this format. Not necessarily change your regular reviews but, rather, augment them with these comparisons. Each of you had your preferences which are great to hear from gear heads. Then the rationalization at the end makes it real world for a daily vs a weekend car. From a guy who had an intega type r almost 20 years ago hearing a civic type r is a acceptable daily is sweet sweet nectar. Wait till full race gets their hands on this new type r, easily 450 bhp!
Thanks for this type of video. It does remain me old TST videos before the ones takes like the E92 comp video. Really good well made
I love the comparison, as well as the VO approach!
Loving this format!
Really liking this format! More please
I love the format it’s much more engaging than the previous - mostly in car format. For special-single car reviews this would fit nicely to give us a little history lesson behind the development of some cars. I don’t think many other journalists do that currently.
Really liked this video format !
Love the format!! More Please!!!
I love this format guys ! Well Done !
Loved this format!