Thanks for doing this Jeff. I came to the same type of conclusion in my video today as well. Except my numbers were not as far apart, but that’s using an Active 2.3 with 1.45 orifice. Can’t wait to hear your results on the Active to see if they are close to mine. Glad we had that group conversation in this. I do think every person should do these tests to know as there as so many variables as you stated. Pressure washer, orifice, temp, etc. I told all my viewers to come watch this video!
The orfice has has nothing to do with dilution. the 2.3 GPM is about 8 liters. The 1.25 or the other mod for the lance is sufficed to increase foam. The issue is to understand with your set up what ever that is the total amount of water exerted. Which results in thinning the dilution further
Hey Jeff, wouldn’t the dilution ratios change when you adjust the knob on the top of the cannons? Curious to know if you maybe moved all of them to the max “+” or if maybe you didn’t adjust those at all? Maybe it doesn’t make a difference at all? THANKS!
From one Jeff to another, excellent test! When we were all just foaming up typical pH neutral soap, this wasn't a very big deal outside of leading people to believe that one foam cannon was better than another without properly controlling for variables. But now that newer technology with higher concentrations and higher/lower pH are becoming more popular, this suddenly becomes much more important.
Love seeing these kinds of vids. PIR is the way! The math talk actually made me think of how one could gauge/compare the efficacy and overall value for cleaning soaps. I use an ATP luminometer to test environmental cleanliness in my 9 to 5. Not sure if ATP testing would be applicable since lots of non organic matter end up on our vehicles. There has to be some kind of testing platform out there to test cleaning soap efficacy. Brands must be doing some kind of testing during R&D that isn’t just the eye/feel test. Unfortunately that isn’t ever shared. I appreciate the time and effort you put into this video Sir!!
Great video! I'm glad someone is starting to break this down. I've noticed huge variables between cannons. Orifice sizes say they are 1.25 and they aren't , manifold build, style and setup of filter/foam maker, draw from soap, IPR, etc. I've taken the Sooprinse and made it work just as well as the MJJC with minor changes. Great stuff. subbed
Thanks for doing all of the over thinking for me. So I don’t have to. It did make for an interesting video. Now I’ll go out, glug some soap in my foam cannon, and wash the car. Cheers!
im going to do a video on this, but i tested all 6 of my cannons with a pin gauge set and found that 4 of the 6 were within 0.4% of the 1.25 they were supposed to be. the 5th was about 1% and the 6th was pretty far out.
All of this sounds good, but at the end I was expecting an experimental comparison between using the same ratio vs using the calculated one to see the difference.
Keav did a similar video just before this one. Makes clear why those outside of the US don’t get obsessed with foam cannons. With a little math, you can get similar results from any foam cannon. When in doubt, go with rinseless wash.
Thank you for this awesome test!! From what I gathered, I can run BH Touchless undiluted in my Griot’s Boss Cannon with the aqua metering tip to get a perfect PIR of 2%? I also have a K1322TS.
Interesting video. Curious to understand the benefit of knowing the results and why it really matters especially considering the wide range of different pressure washers being used out there.
I would say that the average person is using 1 pressure washer and 1 foam cannon and maybe 1 or two soaps. Most manufacturers are targeting a certain PIR for their soap on your panel, and knowing the internal dilution allows you to know what to put in the bottle. The second part would be to inform viewers what to look for when people are testing cannons. The MJJC looks like it kicks the crap out of the MTM because it uses 25% more soap! thats just an example.
So a person should just buy whichever foam cannon is cheapest with the best build quality and the foam produced should be the same as any other cannon once the proper amount of soap to water ratio is determined? I was planning on buying an MJJC pro 2 what is the proper soap dilution ratio for that cannon at 1000 ml?
So what are the factors (beyond temperature, pressure washer, etc) impacting the variability in the results if all are using the same size orifice? And, would you expect if I did the exact same test these results be repeatable? I’m just trying to understand all of the variables.
I’m going to guess there are infinite variables. Depending on just how far you want to go down the rabbit hole. I mean every time you use a foam cannon the size of the orifice will get microscopically larger. They use water to cut diamonds, and it erodes granite, so it will surely affect brass or stainless steel. Exactly how many uses will result in a difference? I guess that depends on the accuracy of your measuring equipment. LOL
Its hard to say what variables would be significant and which ones wouldn't... I expected the orifices to be all over the place and spoiler alert they weren't. I had 2 of the 6 that were off, one was significant and changing it to be a 1.25 only made a 3% difference which is basically nothing. I think Pressure washer pressure, line pressure behind the PW, and the viscosity of the liquid are going to be the most significant but i don't know for sure. There will be another video, but i truly dont understand all the answers right now..
Indeed. I have both MJJC and MTM form cannon, I use 0.5l in the MTM for a whole car (water+soap) and 1l in the MJJC, about the same amount of soap in both and get the same results. Yes the MJJC is still a little most "dry foam" and thicker but I actully prefer the more wet foam of the MTM.
Thanks for putting in the work here. I enjoy seeing the data rather than glugging soap in and saying how good it foams. I’ve found a lot of disparity in how people use them in general. Most of the time 1000ml mixture is way too much for one car so people will use 500 or 750ml and use the 1 or 2 oz of product at that dilution. That would give a much different result as well
yea, i didn't have the active yet when i did this video. I did test it today and ill get it added when i release the video, but 6010 was the number i got when i measured it today.
I think this video was great. However, you tested it on its most extreme dilution. When I use my Mjjc, I can produce great performance at half way adjustment and not going all the way to the negative dial. I’d be curious to see its dilution at that setting. Maybe retest all of the with where you think the best setting is on them without using too much soap. Thanks for making this video.
i used the most minimal dilution (all the way plus) because in my poll most people told me thats how they used them. I thought through testing with the adjustable dial, but its really hard since there are no detents or measurements on most cannons. maybe i could do the least and the most and give people a range.
@ Interesting! So mtm active and Sooprinse all have plus and minus. Plus is all the way clockwise. My action cannon is the way you describe, minus is all the way clockwise, I never realized it Mjjc has a ramp picture and the high side is on the right so I always read that as the plus is clockwise. Atleast we’re both doing the same thing, all the way clockwise
If you havent come across the PIR for the foam lances then of course the dilution used was a failure. Is also funny that you post this video since we are on about it over 5 years now. So yeah put simple the moving force to create suction in the lance is the ADDITIONAL water the PW exerts.
Certainly appreciate you doing the work but you’re saying we need use 2x-3x the amount of soap in some cases. That isn’t realistic for most people with the price of soap. 1-2 oz for most soaps is perfect
I’m not at all. The calcs are based on gsf which targets 1% as a pir. Many soaps are use less, like incredible suds is 0.33% pir, while some use more like touchless that is 2% pir.
Thanks for doing this Jeff. I came to the same type of conclusion in my video today as well. Except my numbers were not as far apart, but that’s using an Active 2.3 with 1.45 orifice. Can’t wait to hear your results on the Active to see if they are close to mine. Glad we had that group conversation in this. I do think every person should do these tests to know as there as so many variables as you stated. Pressure washer, orifice, temp, etc. I told all my viewers to come watch this video!
active is arriving today, i also received a pin gauge set to test orifices
@ Nice can’t wait to hear your results.
The orfice has has nothing to do with dilution. the 2.3 GPM is about 8 liters. The 1.25 or the other mod for the lance is sufficed to increase foam. The issue is to understand with your set up what ever that is the total amount of water exerted. Which results in thinning the dilution further
Bringing PIR to America
Yessir!
Great job! I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I'm sure it was a ton of work and was very informative!
Wow Jeff! This was awesome! Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Finally someone else that gets this! Thanks for doing the deep dive!
Phenomenal Video Jeff!! Fair, precise and super informative! Thanks for taking the time to do this! I know it wasn't quick to do!!
Hey Jeff, wouldn’t the dilution ratios change when you adjust the knob on the top of the cannons? Curious to know if you maybe moved all of them to the max “+” or if maybe you didn’t adjust those at all? Maybe it doesn’t make a difference at all? THANKS!
Everything was set all the way to the plus, which is the way I (and most of the people I asked) use it.
@ thanks for getting back to me! That wasn’t something I was aware of lol I’m always missing with it trying to get it right, appreciate the tip 👍
Wow! Honestly never even considered this. Great work sir!
I hope the next video will be testing the appropriate dilutions in each foamer.
it will, this was already 3 hours of raw footage.
i also bought a pin gauge set to make sure the orifaces are accurate cannon to cannon
Damn what happened to car washing 😭. Car washing used to be so simple
Wow. Thanks for putting in all this work and sharing it. Makes a lot of sense! Now I feel like I need to figure out exact measurements for my cannon 😂
Looking forward to a follow up where you test cannons using the correct consistent ratios
I have one in the works right now!
From one Jeff to another, excellent test!
When we were all just foaming up typical pH neutral soap, this wasn't a very big deal outside of leading people to believe that one foam cannon was better than another without properly controlling for variables. But now that newer technology with higher concentrations and higher/lower pH are becoming more popular, this suddenly becomes much more important.
Love seeing these kinds of vids. PIR is the way! The math talk actually made me think of how one could gauge/compare the efficacy and overall value for cleaning soaps. I use an ATP luminometer to test environmental cleanliness in my 9 to 5. Not sure if ATP testing would be applicable since lots of non organic matter end up on our vehicles. There has to be some kind of testing platform out there to test cleaning soap efficacy. Brands must be doing some kind of testing during R&D that isn’t just the eye/feel test. Unfortunately that isn’t ever shared. I appreciate the time and effort you put into this video Sir!!
Great video n explanation, Jeff. Thanks
Very cool and informative video! Thanks for putting the effort in and informing us! Love the JJ Abrams style lens flares, lol :)
Yea.. you don’t know it happened until post.
@@improvedgarage All good, your content is top-notch!
Super video. Love the science. What kind of pressure washer were you using for the testing? Was it an active too?
Kranzle k1322ts
Mtm cobrajet 3/8 hose 100’ length
Great video! I'm glad someone is starting to break this down. I've noticed huge variables between cannons. Orifice sizes say they are 1.25 and they aren't , manifold build, style and setup of filter/foam maker, draw from soap, IPR, etc. I've taken the Sooprinse and made it work just as well as the MJJC with minor changes. Great stuff. subbed
What minor changes? If you don’t mind me asking.
@ Can an $18 dollar Amazon Foam Cannon perform like a $90 dollar MJJC S V3 Foam Cannon ??? #sooprinse
th-cam.com/video/L2ggXFGP4ws/w-d-xo.html
Nice PIR per foam cannon. Thank you for doing this, very informative
Nice! Gotta test out my foam cannons now!!
Keav suggested I watch and you didn't disappoint. Thanks!
Very good video Jeff, thank you. You need now to do a part 2 so to test the foam on the cannons with the similar PIR dilution for a true comparison!
Thanks for doing all of the over thinking for me. So I don’t have to. It did make for an interesting video. Now I’ll go out, glug some soap in my foam cannon, and wash the car. Cheers!
Great Work!!
Hey Jeff, does the internal swappable orifice of the foam cannon matter?
im going to do a video on this, but i tested all 6 of my cannons with a pin gauge set and found that 4 of the 6 were within 0.4% of the 1.25 they were supposed to be.
the 5th was about 1% and the 6th was pretty far out.
@@improvedgarage Awesome 👌
All of this sounds good, but at the end I was expecting an experimental comparison between using the same ratio vs using the calculated one to see the difference.
itll be in part 3. people dont watch 2 hour videos ;)
Keav did a similar video just before this one. Makes clear why those outside of the US don’t get obsessed with foam cannons. With a little math, you can get similar results from any foam cannon. When in doubt, go with rinseless wash.
Sub’d because science. Thank you for this 💪🏻
Thank you for this awesome test!! From what I gathered, I can run BH Touchless undiluted in my Griot’s Boss Cannon with the aqua metering tip to get a perfect PIR of 2%? I also have a K1322TS.
that was the result of my test, unless there are differences in the run of griots i would think you can.
Great video man. Intelligence is useful!
Actually true. Noticed that dilution of the foam cannon makes a difference.
Thank you for this
Dang not bad, 2 mjjc foam cannons for free and they are some of the best in the market
Interesting video. Curious to understand the benefit of knowing the results and why it really matters especially considering the wide range of different pressure washers being used out there.
I would say that the average person is using 1 pressure washer and 1 foam cannon and maybe 1 or two soaps. Most manufacturers are targeting a certain PIR for their soap on your panel, and knowing the internal dilution allows you to know what to put in the bottle.
The second part would be to inform viewers what to look for when people are testing cannons. The MJJC looks like it kicks the crap out of the MTM because it uses 25% more soap! thats just an example.
So a person should just buy whichever foam cannon is cheapest with the best build quality and the foam produced should be the same as any other cannon once the proper amount of soap to water ratio is determined? I was planning on buying an MJJC pro 2 what is the proper soap dilution ratio for that cannon at 1000 ml?
Great find, I was also under the assumption that these were standardized at 10:1 like chemical injectors tend to be.
So what are the factors (beyond temperature, pressure washer, etc) impacting the variability in the results if all are using the same size orifice? And, would you expect if I did the exact same test these results be repeatable? I’m just trying to understand all of the variables.
I’m going to guess there are infinite variables. Depending on just how far you want to go down the rabbit hole. I mean every time you use a foam cannon the size of the orifice will get microscopically larger. They use water to cut diamonds, and it erodes granite, so it will surely affect brass or stainless steel. Exactly how many uses will result in a difference? I guess that depends on the accuracy of your measuring equipment. LOL
Its hard to say what variables would be significant and which ones wouldn't... I expected the orifices to be all over the place and spoiler alert they weren't. I had 2 of the 6 that were off, one was significant and changing it to be a 1.25 only made a 3% difference which is basically nothing.
I think Pressure washer pressure, line pressure behind the PW, and the viscosity of the liquid are going to be the most significant but i don't know for sure. There will be another video, but i truly dont understand all the answers right now..
Thanks Jeff.
Indeed. I have both MJJC and MTM form cannon, I use 0.5l in the MTM for a whole car (water+soap) and 1l in the MJJC, about the same amount of soap in both and get the same results. Yes the MJJC is still a little most "dry foam" and thicker but I actully prefer the more wet foam of the MTM.
The ratio the cannon mixes at is also affected by the viscosity of the soap.
I suggested that at the end of the video, when I went into additional variables, I haven’t tested for it yet though.
Thanks for putting in the work here. I enjoy seeing the data rather than glugging soap in and saying how good it foams. I’ve found a lot of disparity in how people use them in general. Most of the time 1000ml mixture is way too much for one car so people will use 500 or 750ml and use the 1 or 2 oz of product at that dilution. That would give a much different result as well
We use this method in the UK using PIR (panel impact ratio) Bilt Hamber stipulate PIR on there bottles
Great video Jeff. Just a heads up your C12 cell is blank.
yea, i didn't have the active yet when i did this video. I did test it today and ill get it added when i release the video, but 6010 was the number i got when i measured it today.
@@improvedgarage Great way of testing Jeff. Science doesn't lie.
Your property looks gorgeous! Which county is it in, California?
Im in Nipomo, which is right at the bottom of San Luis Obispo county.
@ beautiful! I was vacationing at Pismo beach last summer. We love San Luis Obispo county. I’m from Canada btw. Subscribed!
I think this video was great. However, you tested it on its most extreme dilution. When I use my Mjjc, I can produce great performance at half way adjustment and not going all the way to the negative dial. I’d be curious to see its dilution at that setting. Maybe retest all of the with where you think the best setting is on them without using too much soap. Thanks for making this video.
i used the most minimal dilution (all the way plus) because in my poll most people told me thats how they used them. I thought through testing with the adjustable dial, but its really hard since there are no detents or measurements on most cannons. maybe i could do the least and the most and give people a range.
@ Generally most people use them all the way on negative to produce the most foam. Positive will be straight water!
not sure what cannon you’re using but positive is the most foam on all 6 of mine. All the way clockwise toward the “+” on the bottle
@ Mjjc, that one doesn’t indicate + or - on the dial. Most of the cheaper options are - clockwise
@
Interesting! So mtm active and Sooprinse all have plus and minus. Plus is all the way clockwise.
My action cannon is the way you describe, minus is all the way clockwise, I never realized it
Mjjc has a ramp picture and the high side is on the right so I always read that as the plus is clockwise.
Atleast we’re both doing the same thing, all the way clockwise
"The British Are Coming" PIR is a requirement to use Bilt-Hamber products.
If you havent come across the PIR for the foam lances then of course the dilution used was a failure. Is also funny that you post this video since we are on about it over 5 years now. So yeah put simple the moving force to create suction in the lance is the ADDITIONAL water the PW exerts.
I just got active 2.0 pressure washer from OG with boss foam canon since boss has a better build
It puts the soap in the cannon 🧼 good stuff Jeff
Proper
First, Humberto. 😃
Certainly appreciate you doing the work but you’re saying we need use 2x-3x the amount of soap in some cases. That isn’t realistic for most people with the price of soap. 1-2 oz for most soaps is perfect
I’m not at all.
The calcs are based on gsf which targets 1% as a pir. Many soaps are use less, like incredible suds is 0.33% pir, while some use more like touchless that is 2% pir.