Why I Have C Clamps On My Saw Cutting Teeth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2022
- A2 Wood Art's video: • The new method of cutt...
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Filing patterns. www.blackburntools.com/articl...
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Hack Saw Blades: amzn.to/3QVvWDZ
Refiling teeth on a saw can be a difficult and daunting task. today we are looking at a new method for cutting teeth on a saw. so sitting on new saw teeth can be a lot easier.
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I have to say that in over 40 years, I have never seen or even heard of anything like it - it's a great idea...!
WOW! I don't have enough room in my head for all the wisdom you share. Glad these things are on video, I don't have to remember what you passed on, I just have to remember where the videos are.
This makes me very thankful for my Dad's Foley Bellsaw tooth notching machine. But that is a really cool setup you have there.
If you have trouble starting the cut on the metal because of skating, turn the blade around and do it on a pull cut. That's useful whether or not you make the jig. But that jig sure is a clever solution.
That's genius, what a great idea, thanks for sharing!
That is actually a very simple, but genius method Alex has figured out, props to him. I think for spacers, you found one of the easiest and cheapest options, as you can quite easily find metal rulers in quite a few different thicknesses.
Look at the see-saw, did you see what I saw?
Your saw TPI jig is great. It’s basic. And most importantly, it works.
Consistency in TPI means your cuts are done correctly and saves labor.
Outside of spending $$$(who has extra saved up?),It’s the prefect fix.
File the first inch of teeth off of the cutting blade, that way you don't have to tilt the cutting saw to start your cut and you will lined up in the previous cut.
I think Chris has something here, filing as he's suggested will also give a smother start to the cut.
Thanks for sharing James....I never SAW this coming!
By the way, alex id brilliant. He has a couple of videos on setting the bevel on a miller's Falls cigar shave that provide real insight into setting up this notoriously difficult tool.
My first idea is to use a dremel or a proxxon tool with diamond wheel mounted on a wooden jig with one metal "finger" for the cut positioning. Afterwards you just move the whole plate. Not hand tools but i have a proxxon tool at home :)
genius in its simplicity
I have no plans right now to make a saw, don't have any c-clamps, but this video and such a nice way to do this just makes me happy. Great little video!
Very well explained. If the cost of these clamps and a hack saw are too much then maybe another hobby or job might be appropriate.
Great video and idea to solve an old age problem ! Just an idea with the two hacksaw blades to set the one with the back side down lower so that it acts as a progressive cut so that you do not have to angle the blade when cutting and the hack saw blade does not jump on the cut into the blade you cutting.
The problem with putting the smooth one lower is that you would then have to angle the saw to finish the cut. And then all of your sockets into the plate would be at an angle. That would make it harder to get the guide blade in.
So as the cutting blade advances and the curf deepens, the guide (upside down) blade is getting higher in sympathy with it along the length of the hacksaw? Thus keeping it all on the vertical?
Hang on no - the guide goes deeper...... no my head hurts!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo At the far end the non cutting blade is lower, but at the near end they are level. That way in the beginning You have the guide and at the end of cut you have a full depth of cut. To start cutting the teeth You simply start at the end of the plate.
1. Spot weld the hacksaw blades in place. Set it all up. Get it right and then zip around to the welders shop and lock it all in place. Mark the jig for the PPI it does.
I'm happy doing as fine as 12PPI, but you have just solved how I can form PPI smaller than that for dovetale saws That's great!
I saw that video. It revolutionized my saw teeth cutting. I plan on making a permanent jig on my milling machine.
For the clamping I think cutting a grove in a piece of maple or other hard wood and then putting threaded holes with bolts or setscrews in them every other inch or so would work nicely.
Make small hardwood clamps (basically 2 pieces with a wing nut apply the pressure)to keep the center of mass closer to the midline, make it lighter, and you don't have to listen to the handles rattle at every stroke
There is no question that this solution works and is great, but it really reinforces my desire for a Foley Automatic Retoother.
Spot weld together. Made for the different /inch space
Another idea for shims would be to get set of mechanic’s feeler gauges to use with your steel ruler to set your spacing. Just use the appropriate feeler gauge or gauges at each clamp.
You could rivet the shims and blade together.
Huh, never thought about cutting my own saw… NO! I have enough projects! You’re a bad influence.
Put this on Paul Sellers channel, a Twitch style speedrun for making a stool would be cool. Maybe you, Rex, Cosman, Paul Sellers, and John Zhu? Could be a charity event or something.
Rex Cosman and I did one last year for the purple heart foundation. Paul generally does not colab with others. but maybe someday.
Take some thickish bar stock, and cut a groove in one edge. Cross drill and tap one side of the groove for set screws.
If grooving the bar stock is too hard, find 3 pieces of metal that you can combine for the same profile, and drill, tap & screw them together
Tack the spacer and blades together with superglue. Load them into the slot in the bar stock, and fix In place with the set screws.
Or, like someone else mentioned, "Toolmakers Machinist Parallel Clamps". TayTools sells them. (like little hardened steel screw clamps). Use 2 or 3 of those to reinforce the blade sandwich, instead of the slotted bar stock. If the screws really bother you, file flats on the threads for a wrench, and cut off the excess.
Brilliant! I have always beeb
N intimidated to try making a saw plate. I am going to give this a try.
Incredibly ingenious. Way to go Alex! My first thought for exact thicknesses was feeler gauges but they are usually far, far too thin and I've never seen one as long as a hacksaw blade. In truth, you would only need 5 or 6 sizes. I paid for my first tuba working summers at an HVAC shop where we made our own duct work. Sheet metal comes in very exact thicknesses usually expressed as decimals, for instance .032 is a very common thickness. And they always have sheet metal shears that cut 4 feet across. I'll bet a good HVAC or machine shop would cut you several strips in the thicknesses you want for very little money. And if they don't have as thick as you might need, you could laminate or just stack several thicknesses together to make it. A one inch, 4 ft long strip of 2 or 3 thicknesses would cut into four 12 inch strips of each thickness. You could just about make any thickness you want out of those. Kind of like stacking together dado blades and shims. (GASP!)
In metric land feeler gauges are usually sold in sets with strips from 0.05mm up to 1mm in 0.05mm increments for cheap enough that cutting a few apart for a project would not be a problem.
@@pettere8429, And, since they're usually manufactured and sold world wide in either TPI [Teeth Per Inch], or PPI [Points Per Inch], one can also easily find feeler gauges in thousandths of an inch thicknesses in "Imperial Measurement Land".
I absolutely love this idea
Simple solutions are the best.
I have 2 saw stay vices. Both work excellent. If you would like one you can have it. The prescision of filing is a skill I have. Needs no guides. Just look at the filed metal and
Great idea, seems to do the job well! Thanks!
Small toolmakers clamps would probably work too.
I like this idea. It reminds me of guitar fretting jigs. They involve basically a mitre box with an indexing pin, and a toothed fretting template that sticks to the fretboard and slots into the pin so you cut in the right place for the fret. They also have a depth stop incorporated and sometimes bearing guides, so more complicated but reminiscent
Also it reminds me of the table saw finger joint sled that people make, popping the previous cut into an indexing pin
Just an idea: figure out what bits of shims you'd need for various TPI; sheet steel, hacksaw blades, a ruler etc (like with a dado stack as previously mentioned), clamp it all together and drill a handful of holes along the length to run bolts through, use a dremel or file to elongate the guide and cutting hacksaw blades to allow for the depth adjustment.
For depth setting an assortment of metal rod diameters could be used, or a combination square in a pinch since you wouldn't have to worry about the assembly falling apart with everything loosely bolted together.
How about making a special blade holder with a screw adjustable separation between the cutting blade and the guide? Something like those wooden grooving planes have. A luxury feature would be to have the guiding blade able to hinge up and down so that it hangs down below the cutting one when the cut is started and then retracts as the cut deepens.
One option for getting the TPI/PPI sorted out would be to get a threaded rod with the right pitch and use that as the guide or get a thread pitch gauge.
This was fascinating. Thank you!
This is exactly the thing I needed to get motivated about making saws again, thank you! And if you're anything like me, one thing there's no shortage of in the shop is prospective projects you'll totally get to one day. This means I've got gobs of old saw plates lying around I've been meaning to spruce up again or practice on, so why not use them for the depth guide portion of this jig? Hell, even just a third hacksaw blade should do the trick for the fine toothed saws, unless I'm getting ahead of myself. Panel saws won't do, considering their profile tapers towards the back and up to the top, but if I'm not mistaken any old back saw should have a pretty consistent thickness all along the plate.
As I get my hybrid shop set up, I can say between you and the mighty P.S. I have learned so much! Thank you for what y’all are doing!
Thanks Brian. I'll keep them coming.
The bigger difficulty I've always found is after shaping small crosscut teeth is getting the set right. Very fiddlly keeping the saw set firmly on the twice angled tooth. Maybe I just need to find a way to get the hammer and anvil a smidge lower down the tooth.
a good saw set that fits your style is worth its weight in gold.
This distinctly reminds me of a box joint cutting jig just switched around somewhat. I suppose if someone wanted to they could use a tile cutter with a relevant jig to move it closer to a normal box joint cutting jig. You could even then go down the lines of adding the relevant angles onto each tooth as they're cut. This would be an interesting experiment but kind of defeats the point I feel.
I have re-toothed a few saws using both the paper strip and the Paul Sellers wood block guide methods. I never liked the paper method (probably a combination at lack of skill and impatience). The wooden guide is ok for saws down to about 12 tpi but I really struggled when trying to do a 15 tpi dovetail saw. My solution was to use a blade meant for a mechanical hacksaw with the right tooth count as a guide. The blade is at least 25 mm (1 inch) deep and doesn’t have the “wave” set of most hand hacksaw blades. It is easy to clamp to the saw plate and I made the initial cut with a junior hacksaw, modified as per Paul Sellers.
I know this isn’t really adding to the innovation of a saw tooth cutting jig but it worked for me to do a one off project.
The upside-down hacksaw blade could be a little lower to ride in the previous tooth gullet; this way you would not have to angle the saw before creating the next gullet. Of course, you'd have to create the first one, then put the second saw blade in place so it'd be another set-up step, but might save a lot of time and fidgeting for most of the cuts.
I initially thought to do this, but it wouldn’t work (at least didn’t in my head). It will cut first tooth ok, second to a lesser depth, and third or so wouldn’t cut, as will not have enough depth in the reference tooth. Again, this were my thoughts and reasons keep blades parallel
The problem with putting the smooth one lower is that you would then have to angle the saw to finish the cut. And then all of your sockets into the plate would be at an angle. That would make it harder to get the guide blade in.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo this is an awesome trick. I wonder if there is a reliable way to place the upside down blade at an angle so that one end is marginally lower than the right side up blade and level at the other end.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo you could use a 3rd blade as a spacer too
Love it. One of the best Hacksisaw. Past tense of course. Lol.
Great idea, if you have a bunch to do I wonder if it wouldn't be easier for setup to get your spacer and guide-blade fitted-up on the bench and temporarily glued together with some CA glue THEN clamp to the cutting blade. At least for setting the depth-stop part of it you could then use something like a vernier caliper to get the depth where you want rather than hunting for some sort of shim/nail. Though I get the impression if you have a bunch to do you are probably further ahead to just get the saw plate cut on a machine or something...
CA glue is not a half bad idea to get in the right place.
Could you make a spacer and then glue something both ends with the right depth? Then means you can just use a flat surface to set the whole thing up so long as the blades are standing square
I don't have any ideas for improvements per se but I would think if you had ruler/shim stock that was a little to thin for the PPI you want you could pit a few pieces of masking tape on either side to beef it up. The metal core would still provide the rigidity and wear resistance. I also thought that the c-clamps would make the whole say heavier thus allowing you to focus more on control than pressure. Let the weight of the tool do the work sort of thing.
Awesome! I was actually gonna ask you if you had a video about cutting new saw teeth!
I like to put a little machine oil to my metal cutting saw. Cuts down on the vibration and makes bit easier to push. Tho it makes chips gather around the teeth and clog so every now and then little wipe needed
Figure out the math to use multiple layers of hacksaw blades to use as the spacer(s) for differing point counts.
Now, this is big brain time!
How about a guide that's not attached to the hacksaw at all - one that's like a cross between a magnetic dovetail saw guide and a box joint jig?
A small piece of soft metal (mild steel, brass, aluminum) with a groove/kerf running longways down an edge that's just wide enough to slip down over the top of saw plate. Crosscut a perpendicular kerf on the same edge with the hacksaw that's a bit deeper than the long groove. Wedge or glue in a piece of hacksaw blade upside down in the crosscut kerf to index the jig. Cut or sand down the end of the piece so that the final distance between the indexing piece of blade and the end of the jig matches the desired saw tooth spacing.
After you make your first cut into the actual saw plate, you slip the jig over top of the plate, index the crosspiece into the first kerf in the plate, run your hacksaw along the near edge of your jig to start your next cut. After each cut, you index the jig into the kerf your just made.
You might also be able to apply the basic concept, built quicker and with more flexibility, by using a scrap of wood. After adding the long plate groove, cross-cut the indexing kerf. Then trim the end of the wood to leave just a rebate the width of the indexing blade piece. Finally use small screws or rare earth magnets in the end of the wood jig to attach different width shims (ideally steel) for different tooth counts. Magnets would have the added benefit of aiding in aligning/tracking your hacksaw to the end of the jig. Use would be much like a magnetic DT saw guide but with indexing.
like this one. th-cam.com/video/fNH6ENBccOk/w-d-xo.html I may show a quick and dirty version of that here soon
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Ha, my idea vs that seems like a cave man finger painting compared to a Michaelangelo. A quick version would still be cool to see
McMaster Carr or Grainer likely sells brass or steel in thicknesses that would make good inexpensive shims. Thanks for sharing. I've got an old Disson saw that used to reside in my dad's 56 Ford pickup truck to rough cut lumber. He have it to me after the saw sat outside for a year. It's on the list to restore. Since I already have more saws than I need, I was planning to convert it to a 3 PPI ripping machine. Still likely going to stick to the Paul Sellers method and actually use a finer PPI first two inches of the saw to redo the plate. Glad to see this method though. Little by little I've been making my own tools becuase it's fun to do so and a saw is on the list for sure.
Also should say, I used McMaster Carr to but O1 tool steel that is 1/16" wide by 1/2" thick for like $10. I am going to use that stock to make my own 1/16" wide chisel sort of in a mortise chisel style (for the once every three years I need to use it). That's why I know they have lots of metal in various sizes to choose from.
McMasterCarr was my first thought!
Great video!!!
Impressive. I have used Paul sellers technique to retooth several one hundred year old saws with success, but this might be less time consuming.
Thank you for the wright way,
-CYC
I was gonna leave a random comment down below, but it may not be helpful.
If you ask Matthhias Wandel, he will make a screw advanced saw tooth cutting jig, use his coding skill, write a script to drive a step motor to automate the cut.
If you drill through the blades and spacer then rivet or bolt them together you could do away with the clamps and free up the length of the blade making it less bulky and cumbersome to use
Drilling through hacksaw blades is not easy. But if you can do it that would be a great answer.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo how about diamond dental drill bit in a Dremel tool?
Thanks!
Neat method
I'm going to make sure that a particular person sees this so she can weigh in! I have a saw to do that I've been hiding from, and this might be just the ticket.
Is it possible to cut a kerf in say a 3" long by say 1"x1" piece of wood that can rest over the new blade. Then affix a thin square piece of metal onto one end that hangs down roughly the desired cut depth and is filed so that it can sit in the previous cut tooth while the face of the metal acts as a guide to saw along? So you cut a tooth and just advance the guide block down the blade to line up the next cut. It doesn't give you the depth stop, but it seems like you could possibly count strokes for that.
I have some spring clamps that I got for scale modeling that might work for holding those blades. They are quite steady when used on flat pieces. And they'd fit under the frame of any but the smallest hacksaw.
I thought of adding double-sided tape to add a bit of friction. Then even with a lighter spring clamp it should hold.
If I were to do something like this I may set it up with the clamps and then drill through all 3 pieces and bolt it together so there aren't clamps sticking out and making the weight weird. If this was something you did a lot you could make an accurate drilling jig and bypass having to set it up every time.
well… drilling was the first thing I wanted to do, but hacksaw blades are hardened and very fragile. If you try to drill, it will most likely just break
If you have the patience and accuracy to drill through the hardened hacksaw blade. That would be a great answer.
@@A2woodArt That's fair... I hadn't really considered that.
I would imagine that you could even do multiple cuts at a time the issue would be tensioning each blade. But nuts and bolts in place of the c clams could work. A dedicated jig out of old old hack saw blade.
How about hack saw blades (or pieces of blades) as spacers? You could layer 2 or 3 for thicker spacers. Washers might work, 1 at each C-clamp. I have tried grinding washers down to a specific thickness (for a different purpose). I wasn't super successful, but I'm not a machinist or metal worker. I assume that someone could suggest a way to do that accurately.
A dime, a nickel, and a penny all have different TPI.
Someone is practicing his Stumpy Nubs-style clickbait skills! I have done this by using the templates from backburn tools and just placing my file on the lines. The teeth come out a little squirrelly but nothing that cannot be fixed in a single joining and sharpening pass.
thanks
That’s so awesome
Wow James - brilliant video. Who knew you could make your own saws. (Still a bit of a newbie!)
I wonder if inset wad of the ‘c’ clamps there could be a thin metal strip bent into a ‘u’ shape with a grub screw through one side to clamp the blades.
Ken in the UK.
Inset wad = instead 😂
That's really brilliant, James! 😃
The only thing are the clamps... Those are still too big! But perhaps some binding clips, who knows?
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I was thinking about trying to use double-sided tape and binding clips. If I put them all the way along it might be enough pressure to hold it in the right place.
You can use an old saw, as the guide to make the new saw.
If you're careful, yes. Otherwise you just end up moving the teeth of the old saw.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Sure, it takes some care in prepping the old blade, but the guide is built in. Less fiddly than pasting a sheet, less cumbersome than clamping the hacksaw up. Of course a combination would probably be dead on and faster. You pick your pace, all methods are good if it works for you. Just another option, if you happen to have a worn out saw of the proper frequency.
Cool jig
I'm probably never gonna do that because I'd rather spend time actually woodworking than making woodworking tools but its a brilliant idea !!!
I agree with you. I don't want to be cynical here but I didn't realize there was a shortage of saws to purchase ready made. I get it if you like to make tools and see if one can make them as good. If that is your thing go for it.
What do you think about for a one off doing the paul sellers method but 3d printing the guide block? You might need to print one for each saw or two but if you've got a printer they'd be cheap and quick to make. Or just 3dprint the spacer for the two hacksaw blades?
I'd file the back of the upsidedown blade and maybe apply a little wax to make it run in the cut a little better.
what do you mean by File the back?
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I'd take the paint coating off the back and shape it to fit better into the cut left by the blade.
Nice video. Great idea. I hope you can make it better but I'm at a loss.
I use a 24 inch hacksaw blade with 14 t p I I put this in the saw vice in front of the saw plate all clamped tight in the saw vice.i then take a small saw file make 2 passes through the hacksaw teeth which leaves a perfect evenly spaced cut this is done full length of saw plate .then remove hacksaw blade to allow you to file your new teeth in .the hacksaw blades come in various t p I and are used on Industrial machines I have used this method for many years it's perfect
I like the sound of that solution. Might give it a go. Thank you.
instead of using the hacksaw, just clamp the spacer and upside down hacksaw blade to your file.
Wouldn't that upside down hacksaw blade itself work as a depth stop? Or would it start to drift slightly deeper/lower with every new teeth?
Hi James , nice trick and i get it why you show this trick . But for you , what about having a metal cutting device ? They exist in metal working . Maybe a second hand would be cheep for you . If you need to make alot .
they make punches that do this but they are $800-1500
@@WoodByWrightHowTo outch even used 😰😱 The only thing that the pendemic did is get richer the rich 🤷
Use an old blade to make a new one by clamping them both offset in your bench vice , filing as if you wanted to sharpen the old one makes a cut into the new . ha ha ha . all you need is an old blade a saw blank and a file . ha ha ha
Я как раз думал о том, чтобы нанести зубья на старую пилу.
Теперь я знаю как именно я это сделаю
inspired
Maybe some strong magnets to hold the blades and spacers together?
that would have to be a REALY STRONG magnet. i have these C-Clamps cranked down as tight as I can get them. but magnets would be fun!
This is not a random comment. Or is it? Maybe Schrodinger knows ...
I like the saw tooth cutting jig made by Alex that you demonstrated. But, alas, my eyes are now far too old to see or do anything as tiny as the teeth made by "Alex's Tooth Fairy Jig". So I will continue to obtain saw blades that aleady have a fully deveolped row of teeth of the appropriate size and set.
(begin.sarcasm) But calling that jig the "tooth fairy" might upset young developing minds, so it might be better to conceal that from them at least until they are in high school. (end.sarcasm)
Since the "other" blade is being lazy and lying on its back (the one being used as a guide) it seems to me that in principle it could be ANY piece of appropiately sized metal. That may or may not give more design flexibility to the jig.
Maybe I'm missing something but couldn't you just use another sawplate with the required tpi as your guide. Flip it over, clamp in with your plate and be guided by the gullet (set fractionally lower than sawplate).
the problem with that is the file would just cut into the second plate it wont guide the file into place.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo yes. But the point would be to establish the spacing consistently . Ofc, could also establish the spacing then drop the plate down. However, I think I'd rather propose establish the spacing, cut to near depth with hacksaw and file down that path. It's same as sellers style but replacing wooden guide with existing saw plate (gullets).
Anyway just a thought ;)
Savage banana. How would you go about cutting a super fine tpi such as 20 tpi?
Generally I would not as I don't have a need for anything under 16. But you can get a thinner hacksaw blade that will let you get down to about 20.
...wheels are turning...?
👏🏼
👍
What the hell.. it seems so obvious having seen the jig now..
Obligatory random comment down below.
From Australia 😉
Random comment down below!
I have just recently seen a video on another maker solving this problem with a different method.
th-cam.com/video/fNH6ENBccOk/w-d-xo.html
What do you think of trying to make a similar design?
I love his channel. he makes some of the coolest crazy things. another great way to solve the same problem!
Random comment down below. 😀
Random comment down below 😋
Random comment down below
Random comment. Thank you anyway! (-:
Random comment down below.