As a designer on Printables, I will have to design to the print size limitations of the Ender3 and MK3 for to foreseeable future regardless of the new print sizes. I think most designers are in the same situation. People are currently upset when you say your model can't be printed on a Prusa Mini. I just hope the Core One can do what my MK3s have been able to do, run 4 years 24/7 without a failure. ( I have replaced the plastic part at the top of the extruder that the filament runs thru on each MK3 three times. ... That's It !!! , A 7 minute printed part you can change in 1 minute)
I would have liked a slightly larger print bed as well, but yes other than a few very large things (that won't fit on things shy of 300 mm3), the vast majority of my prints are much smaller than the existing bed.
I basically only print my own designs, and often those are one off enclosures for projects. Those tend to take up a lot of XY space, because they are mostly low and flat.
@@TechDregs Yeah I wouldn't have complained if they made it 250 x 250 x 270 (hell, it would be Prusa-like to have it still be compatible with your old build sheets, but just with a limited XY in those cases!). I have a larger machine though, and of course by definition when your large machine is printing a large part, it's going to take a while even with a "fast coreXY". So I still get plenty of use out of what for me is the other 90% of parts (stuff that prints on a Prusa Mini much less MK4).
About 2 minutes 30 seconds in you speculate why Prusa is using parts from the MK4 for the core. I think there is another consideration. I worked in New Product Development and what I think happened is they have an engineering team that is making incremental improvements to their design. I have been with design teams where we get a new head of engineering and he takes us down an entirely new path and we always end up behind schedule, over budget and with a buggy system. I always argue for taking the existing design and improving it for the next generation. Since Prusa is probably the head engineer he is probably the reason for the consistent improvements. I think they made the right choice. Having an MK4 upgrade is just a cherry on top.
It creates some design constraints, namely build volume, that put them behind the competition. They could’ve kept a significant part of the development they already have from the software, bed heater, extruder, etc without forcing the upgrade path. Upgrade != iterative design
it's too much focus on the engineering process and too little focus on actually being competitive in the market. that isn't to say it's a bad thing, it's just what prusa focuses on. they have a dedicated consumer base & im sure they make enough money to keep it going the way they want to. i think they do need to offer something competitive to stay afloat because they will fade away from the market eventually if their trend continues.
@ I think they are geared to sell to print farms. That is one reason the footprint stayed the same . They already have a large format printer. Is there enough market demand for something a little bigger. Plus there service autos outstanding. I still get support for my MK3 many years latter.
Lol will stick with Bambu,,PRUSA is a wacky cult following for overpriced machines and is falling behind in everything,oh and that Halloween year-round look is not acceptable , Bambu has set the bar with there their Apple 🍎 like build and look it's the Apple for 3D printers. PRUSA is a ripoff from the past but I do thank them for pioneering the way now it's time to get out the way.
This is the first step in the right direction. I think Prusa was surprised by the Chinese Bambu, most likely funded by Chinese government. It’s hard to compete with employees that work 24x7. Still happy with my MK3 -> MK4 upgrade. What happens if your Bambu breaks after two years, do you throw it away or are you able to repair it. With Prusa, if the company is still running, you can order spare parts. Even if the company goes bankrupt it is open source. If the core 1 had a tool changer I would buy it, for now I stick with the MK4 and support Prusa by buying Prusament.
I disagree on the build volume part. I rarely feel like i need a bigger volume than i have on my MK4S. I'm just excited to be able to get a printer that has a slightly larger print volume but takes up far less space. I do agree thought that the bigger print height is rather pointless.
Same. I mean it depends on what you are printing, but in more than 10 years I only had a hand full of projects where I needed something bigger than, lets say 200x200x200. A good printer isn't defined by its build volume, but ridiculously this is always the first thing mentioned when a machine is being criticized.
There really isn't much doubt that Prusa has aimed to make a printer that shares a lot of components with MK4 and is able to replace it. This way, they avoid direct competition with many of the "next size up" Core-XY printers and provide a more compact alternative to bed slingers with comparable build volume. I know I'm a fanboy. Since i3, I've always had a Prusa in my collection. Others have come and gone. Some have even been my preferred - for some time at least. Only Prusa have been the ones I've kept around. I'll most likely upgrade my MK4S and reuse the MMU3. It's been stupid reliable for more than 1100 hours - even for TPU, ASA and PC-CF. Just sold my SV06. It's a fine printer - had no real issues, but I basically only used it's larger bed for Gridfinity baseplates... A FLSun T1 Pro will take its place in a few days, depending on the postal services. Let's see how that works.
@@JonLinde i am still happy with my I3 mk2 that has 1000s hours on it but still runs perfectly just changed the few thing thats wear over time and that is it
I agree, I’ve never needed more x or y but I’ve always found myself topping out or having to wish for more vertical space. I think it’s pretty clever move
I would suspect Prusa with its over million printable objects on printables ran a few queries and analyze a little bit of data to see what an optimum build plate and build volume would be. These guys know what they’re doing. The only thing they’re gonna have to fight is the marketing hype and bamboo fanboys.
Prusa's products seem to be designed more for their existing large business customers (e.g. themselves) than the general public in mind. Well run businesses optimize the total lifetime cost of their capex (machines), and frequently find that improved reliability, ease of maintenance, and long term support provide more value than newest features that grab's a average consumer's attention. Prusa highlighted many of these points of strength in their Core One launch video. IMHO, the Core One's interoperability with existing MK4s consumables and smaller footprint compared MK4s were conscious decisions to make it attractive for existing Prusa print farms looking to expand their business. For personal use where large print volumes, multi material, and price are more important, the Core one is pass. For business use in print farms, Prusa's continual commitment to features important to businesses makes the Core One worth considering, even in face of other products with cheaper up front costs.
If you buy the printer that says "AI cameras" on the box, then I ultimately don't understand your priorities. Prusa has always been the best choice imo, as they know to keep unnecessary complexity out. I don't want them to push the price down, because that inevitably will destroy quality/reliability, which is the only real consideration. 12000+ Euro down on filaments only, and the price difference of a few hounded per printer becomes irrelevant. Repairability, parts availability and documentation is way more important. They could double their price and still be relevant, imo.
The build volume is about 30mm less in one dimension, but 20mm greater in another than the base Voron Trident. And this printer DOES have 3 drive screws on the bed so it might be able to 3 point level the bed like the Trident does. It also can store two rolls of filament inside the printer (outside the chamber), you can do that with a user mod on the Trident as well. I hope they will consider making a "plus" version of this printer with a larger build surface, but I think most users will find the build volume meeting their needs. If I were to build a Voron Trident, I'd do the 300mm one just to get the internal spool option, but the 250mm would meet my needs. Now I think that I would consider the Prusa kit (the $250 difference between the assembled unit and the kit will buy LOTS of filament, or most of the MMU upgrade). Let's not forget that Bambu Labs is a CLOSED SOURCE system, and it ties you to the cloud. Prusa is OPEN SOURCE, and for that reason I wouldn't touch Bambu labs with a 10 foot pole. I bought a K1 and returned it. It had the bad hotend and extruder that the first units did, and was supposed to have been upgraded. Then they came out with the K1C. I trust Prusa more than Creality, the Chinese built stuff to a price point, which leaves to questions in quality.
My personal want was a 300x300. I would have been shocked at that though... I think they won't go there to avoid eating into XL sales. I agree on some of the issues with BL. Their approach to keeping things closed (and reliance on cloud) has honestly been one of the big reasons I never bought one. That's why I wanted this to be just a bit more. This kind of looks like a P1S that costs $400 more The things I wanted from them? A little more X and Y travel, the camera should be included, and a hardened nozzle (with a normal brass one also). Then it would be way more compelling for me at $1000.
@@CraigTrader ehh... In my opinion, not quite, if only they made a truly enclosed variant that didn't use that ugly shade "enclosure" it could probably be marketed that way.
An enclosed, temperature controlled, open source, made in EU printer, reliable and fast IS completely unique. But yeah, the filter imo isn't really an option, it's just make sens to have one
I guess I just disagree. It's really not, other than "made in EU". The temperature control actually just means a vent. It's only partially open source, which, so is the K1. It lacks a multiple features that it's competition has. It's most direct analog would really be the Bambu Lab P1S imo, but even that has a camera. I think the CORE One is better than a P1S due to IP rights and support, but is it $400-500 better? Because that's the price difference. I think they will sell a few, but I think with a few changes it would be a much, much stronger value proposition.
@@Eric_In_SF Prusa's decision to have Prusa printers to be made in the USA is a wise business move given President elect Trump new proposed tariff of 20% and possible 60% for Chinese imports - will be interesting times ahead.
@@crazyethanyeahyeah With regards to tariffs, the US made Prusa printers (made down the road from me at PrintedSolid) will still be made from parts sourced outside of the US. They are really only assembled in the US. The parts will be subject to tariffs. I don't know how many of the parts will come from Prusa, or if PrintedSolid will be getting the parts not made by Prusa directly from Prusa's suppliers. For example, I believe the motors are all LDO, doesn't really make sense to ship PrintedSolid's motors from LDO (China) to Czechia and then to the US. Would still be subject to any tariffs for original source being China, but with double the shipping handling. Especially since PrintedSolid already had a supplier relationship with LDO as they carried LDO motors for Prusa printers (without the Prusa laser-engraved branding) before Prusa bought PrintedSolid. Same thing for bearings, rods, screws, etc.
I’ve dealt with bamboo customer service and Prusa customer service and based on those two experiences alone, Prusa is by far the better choice. And my particular instance was such a nightmare, at six months of back-and-forth and eventually filing a chargeback and getting my money refunded that I would never purchase another bamboo product. I hope tariffs destroy their company. ;)
It's a good incremental upgrade. I think people and Prusa fans just wish this came out 2 years earlier after the MK3 series rather than in response to the rest of the market. I bought an MK4 a year ago and wish I had this machine instead. Not enough to upgrade it though.
Most of these things seem a bit like small stuff. Would have liked it better if they had borrowed the build plate from the AFS rather than the Mk4, but it's a bit more understandable if they are pushing for the upgrade path from the Mk4S. I do think the temperature controlled chamber is a big plus - although it's unclear if it's heated or not. It does sound like it'll be able to handle filaments like Polyarbonate better than most of their competition, though. I'm sure the gears of the Nextruder are fine for carbon fiber and other abrasives - I've thrown a lot at it without problems. They're definitely not brass, as they are not not a yellow color. But yeah, in their usual fashion a lot of stuff is optional add-ons. Although to be fair - it's hard for a company in the EU to compete on price, so reducing the base component cost makes sense. I don't think Prusa is ever going to have price / feature parity as long as they keep manufacturing in the EU & USA.
When CoreXY and Klipper appeared, I thought Prusa would contract and even collapse, but instead, despite using bedslingers with Marlin, they simply doubled their business. The truth is that the speed is nice to have a small part done, but when it comes to printing 17-20 hours the reliability is key, and they offer just that, reliability and the best surface quality. As for the print size.... watch what 3dsets does for the size of just 180mm ''Mini'' class .....
Lol, comparing a Prusa or Bambu against a Creality is like comparing a Nissan to an Audi. Sure, they are both cars but no one would argue there is a substantial leap in quality if you pay more.
I bought a Bambu. Still like my Prusa. I think what you’re missing is that we can fix our printer. I can not fix the known problems with bambu. Prusa last so much longer. Also my bambu may have a bigger bed but it won’t let me print the whole bed because it does all these checks. I would do prusa hands down. There is instructions and a manual for everything. Bambu frustrates me with not instructions.
If I were setting up a small print farm, my money would be with PRUSA. The Bambu P1S I have has been great, but I am very worried when this thing breaks down. The Bambu tech support has a less than stellar reputation. I wouldn't think twice if I were buying 10+ printers. The PRUSA's would be rock solid with minimal downtime. That's all money...
I operate two MK4, XL 5T and HT90 at work - and in a long term, the higher price is justified. You can repair everything - no need to buy whole modules, we dont worry about our prototypes being transfered via cloud to some sweatshop - and dont forget the PrusaSlicer which is "free" for everyone. It is by far the best (and I tried probably most of slicers). Its fast, intuitive, open ... if You want to torture Yourselves try Phrozen DS slicer (thats the worst i worked with) :D Development and improvements to PrusaSlicer also cost a lot of money - which is "paid" by slightly higher prices of the printers. But with Core ONE - i think that price point is much better than for older printer. Now I dont see a reason why would I buy MK4S kit compared to Core ONE kit. So - no revolution, but reasonable evolution.
just yesterday before the prusa announcement I ordered my new QIDI Plus4 printer and I probably won't change it, for about 200$ less with better specs (size, temperature) and probably comparable print quality. Plus it can print some industrial filaments that the prusa can only handle with the HT90 at 10x the price
I would have talked more about the new QIDI printers, but I didn't want to belabor the point. Their newest stuff is interesting too. I'm also just less familiar with them as a company.
I like how you know the two printers have "probably comparable quality" when you haven't even received the first one and the other one was just announced. 😂
@@cxvxcbcxn That's why I write "probably". Because I have to decide now and I can't wait till next year. And really, even if they were in stock I'm not going to buy both so I can then see which prints better. One will always have to rely on the sources of info from others. With prusa I would say that the print quality will be at a similar level to the current prusa printers, for the reason that they also try to maximize the use of most of the hw across their printers (nextruder, main board, probably also belts, ...). According to Aurora Tech (I recommend you take a look) the Qidi prints comparably to the bambulab or prusa XL, what the prusa is better at is print accuracy, however the Qidi is slightly on the median. I myself regret not going to Prusa again (I have a Prusa mini), partly because they are based in the same city. Unfortunately, as many others have said, they missed the train.
@@cxvxcbcxn That's why I write "probably". Because I have to decide now and I can't wait till next year. And really, even if they were in stock I'm not going to buy both so I can then see which prints better. One will always have to rely on the sources of info from others. With prusa I would say that the print quality will be at a similar level to the current prusa printers, for the reason that they also try to maximize the use of most of the hw across their printers (nextruder, main board, probably also belts, ...). According to Aurora Tech (I recommend you take a look) the Qidi prints comparably to the bambulab or prusa XL, what the prusa is better at is print accuracy, however the Qidi is slightly on the median. I myself regret not going to Prusa again (I have a Prusa mini), partly because they are based in the same city. Unfortunately, as many others have said, they missed the train.
That's why I write "probably". Because I have to decide now and I can't wait till next year. And really, even if they were in stock I'm not going to buy both so I can then see which prints better. One will always have to rely on the sources of info from others. With prusa I would say that the print quality will be at a similar level to the current prusa printers, for the reason that they also try to maximize the use of most of the hw across their printers (nextruder, main board, probably also belts, ...). According to Aurora Tech (I recommend you take a look) the Qidi prints comparably to the bambulab or prusa XL, what the prusa is better at is print accuracy, however the Qidi is slightly on the median. I myself regret not going to Prusa again (I have a Prusa mini), partly because they are based in the same city. Unfortunately, as many others have said, they missed the train.
No, it is also a multi-filament, single extruder system. It will have to perform the purging process to switch materials. Waste will still be in the same ballpark.
Mmu3 has significantly less waste than Ams and cfs. You can find it everywhere. In last version of Bambu slicer they corrected waste but still is significantly more than mmu3. Its because cutting and wasting lot of filament. Its not so much about just cleaning nozzle.
@@Subliminal_Panda you’re completely incorrect. It uses a wipe tower, not a purge tower, but it backs the filament out without cutting it so there’s no need to poop. there are plenty of videos that show that the Prusa will use a significantly less amount of waste. If I recall, it was about half the amount of waste or less. But on the bamboo side, the AMS is a much cleaner system as far as it’s physical set up
@@Subliminal_Panda The Mmu retracts most filament back out of the extruder only leaving the small amount of filament melted in the hot end to purge. It is both faster and less wasteful compared to the ams.
A big plus for any Prusa is that you can replace parts / repair it yourself. Otherwise i would say too little too late and i really need more volume / a bigger printbed for my projects. So instead of this, overdue prusa corexy version, i will probably buy a RatriG V4 500cm2 with 2 printheads (IDEX Upgrade).
Prusa Core One tends to suggest that enclosed CoreXY is a superior option to a bedslinger. I tend to agree, but, given a BambuLab P1S is less than half the price and prints like a boss then it seems like a no brainer to me that it is a better choice. Given we know there is something new coming from BambuLab in the new year then it looks to me that Prusa are again rushing out the announcement of the Core One - it doesn't ship until January.......
The GPIO, filter, and camera should be included. The idea that nobody needs a camera is ludicrous. If a print fails, it’s helpful to know when and why that failure occurred, and you cannot always discern this from the spaghetti mess that comes out. The build volume is a huge disappointment. If they had just stretched it to 350 cubed, they’d have a hot seller on their hands despite the price. They *need to* find a cutoff point for MK1->MK4S->Core One upgrades or they’ll be locked into this build volume forever, becoming continually less competitive every time.
The printer is fine. What is it what you are actually doing with a camera...you are checking if your print failed! Besides from making time lapses a build in camera is a testament for low print success rate. To monitor your hardware with a camera is a sign of low confidence in the hardware and printing process. Imagine a printer so good and reliable it doesn't need a camera to check on it. ;)
As usual with Prusa the price is absurd, for me here in Australia to get one to my door is over $2400. I can get a Bambu Labs X1C for that with an ams which is a far better printer and still have change to buy a Bambu Labs A1 combo which on its own is better than this printer lol.
Self admittedly I tend to be a *bit* of a Prusa fan boy, so buying this was a no brainer for me. I ordered as soon as it was announced after I finished looking through the features and spec sheet. But aside from the build plate XY area which I honestly do not see as a major issue, many of the arguements you've made are valid. I do not see Prusa as the market leader any more. They are not the most compelling option for the average Joe who JUST wants a printer that works out of the box. Thinking of the main appeal to me, and the reason i was so eager to buy, I wanted a natively enclosed CoreXY FROM PRUSA. Now, i have many reasons for specifically wanting a Prusa that transcend the fact that it is from a particular brand, repairability and support come to mind, but at the end of the day regardless of the reason, the main feature is that it is a Prusa and that the Prusa business is standing behind it, and it's designed with their design philosophy! When compared to the offerings from BBL, be it the A1 Mini, A1, X1C, or what have you, Prusa's comparable machine is significantly more expensive when configured with the same options that the BBL comes with.... I do not think Prusa will go belly up any time soon but I do think they are much more "niche" than they once were. The Prusa customer is a very specific person who for whatever reason specifically wants to steer clear from BBL or Creality. They want to buy a Prusa, in the same way someone who wants an iPhone wants to buy an iPhone, they do not care if a Samsung or other android offering is objectively better or more cost effective. They are a maker and a tinkerer, but they want to tinker on their own time, they do not want to be locked into a non moddable machine like BBL, but they do not want to be forced into it by working on their printer to make it work like a creality which tends to have issues or design flaws out of the box and is rough around the edges. Maybe they don't want to support China and would rather support the Czech Republic/EU. Maybe they like to vote with their money for a company that seemingly shares their morals when it comes to open source and right to repair. But you need to have an appreciation for their business and design philosophy. I am willing to pay the Prusa tax, for many reasons, not just the ones i listed. I definitely fit the bill for the type of person who is a Prusa customer, but I cannot deny they are clearly not the market leader they once were, it's a sad sight to behold. That said, I appreciate they have not forgotten who they are in the pursuit of endless profit, that they hold on to what makes them a somewhat unique business. It will be interesting to see if they continue towards the trajectory they're headed, that is, the premium option for tinkerers (think of brands like iFixIt), or if they're able to regain a similar level of market share to what they once had.
@@Eric_In_SF I wanted the kit, but since it's not a available I had to settle for the assembled printer if I wanted my spot in line. The XL is not what I'd consider a competitor to the BBL X1C. It sits outside the price, it's not enclosed, and has multiple tool heads, a totally different set of features versus the X1C. I've wanted one for a while, but the whole thing that makes it attractive to me would be the multiple tools heads. Unfortunately $3500 plus tax and shipping for the fully loaded version kit was a stretch for me, haven't ponied up that cash yet. Otherwise I'd have it by now. Eventually I'll get one, but grabbing the Core One is gonna push that back at least till 2026. Why not just get the 1 or two head you ask? To that I say go big or go home ;)
You can’t compete with printers from china, they are always going to be cheaper to manufacture hence the prices for what you get in eu/usa. Personally I like the core one.
People like me don’t mind paying a little extra for that peace of mind, but I still shop by specs - and the specs are disappointing. Upgrade path based development completely screwed then unless they have a larger one coming out. Also, Prusa still sources some parts from China. There’s no way to avoid them entirely.
Ok, sorry to ask, but what is the big deal about a camera? I've been beating the hell out of my MK4 (now MK4S) for a couple of years now and I've never had any need to monitor it. I hit print, it prints, end of story. I think it messes up 1 out of a100 prints and that's usually attributed to me not slicing a model correctly. So for me personally, I couldn't give a crap about the camera. Also, having a MK4S, I can now upgrade to the Core One far cheaper than it would be to buy a lot of enclosed printers. I'm very happy they went in the direction they did, because it'll save me money and allow me to keep a lot of what made my MK4 bulletproof. Call me a Prusa fanboy if you want, but I see little reason to abandon ship any time soon. I've been happy with my printer since day 1, and it gives me far less grief than my friends who went with other options. Bambu may be the Ferrari of printers, but I'll happily drive around in my low maintenance, highly reliable Toyota Corolla.
A camera can be useful for debugging why a print failed if it’s not immediately obvious. I do think it’s more of a “nice to have” than a dealbreaker, but still…
Based on your accent, I am going to assume you are an American. Can your cars compete with Chinese cars on price, if not for the extra taxes put on them? No? So why the hexx to you expect a Prusa to beat their Chinese counterparts on price? Being a European company, I don't think the price was all that bad! Okay, it may not bring entirely new features. But it brings them Prusa-style! Backed by support that is second to none in this segment, and supported for years to come! Ever since the X1C hit the scene, I have wanted for Prusa to bring their version. I simply can't muster any enthusiasm for any of the Chinese printers! Qidi was close, simply because they brought the heated chamber. But a few fires later, I did not care for one any more. Privacy is clearly not a thing for these companies. That is one of the things I like about Prusa! You CAN completely air-gap your printers, and even use an offline computer for slicing, if you want to! Although it would be nice with an included camera, at least you will get one. And you can unplug it, should you feel like it. So the great news here is not the feature-list! It's the fact that it's a Prusa!!! Get over this size-thing-please! People still build 120cm cubed Voron 0.2's. There is a marked for this size. And I think it was a smart move for them to expand upon the MK4; simply because a lot of people whom recently bought their MK4's now won't be left behind. What they loose in sales due to "sma size", they will make up for in sold upgrade-kits! I'll agree that I had hoped for 300cm cubed. But this is a new series of printers. How much imagination does it take to figure out where that may take things? Obviously a replacement for the Mini. But I feel pretty confident they will also release a larger one eventually. Probably not to close to the XL, to avoid eating to much of it's market share. But likely around 300cm.
Obviously, since you’re judging people in their accents, you’re definitely not an American so you have no idea that Chinese cars aren’t even allowed in this country because they can’t pass basic safety testing. that’s the real reason. Chinese cars are cheaper because they’re flimsy garbage and doesn’t have stringent regulations. it’s the same reason Tesla can sell cars in China for much cheaper because they don’t have to put in all the safety, crumpled zones and padding and buffering
So you'd be happy with this at any size and any price? I mean, if people build Vorons at 120mm cube, then you'd be happy if the CORE One were 120mm cube? And still cost $1000? Obviously, at some point, these things matter. FWIW, I would have LOVED this thing at 300x300 XY.
@TechDregs its not perfect but this is the only just werks machine that would get my money. Bambu is horrible for patenting the voron gantry as their own. And as well as trying to patent parts of their slicer that is built on top of prusa.
@@TechDregs I did not say any of the things you brought up here. And you did it answer any of what I said. Why trying to shift focus? Are you that lacking in arguments for your perspective? FYI, a high end Voron 0.2 kit is not all that much cheaper than the Core One kit. And they still sell!
I use my MK3 to build things for my other hobbies and I will always support a U.S. or EU based company over anything in China. In addition, the support alone is worth the extra cost. As for the extras, many of us don’t need them. Why buy and have all the extra failure points if they aren’t needed? I’d much rather have a basic and very reliable machine that I can add extras to if needed.
Bambu Lab's proprietary grasp they have on customers is such a turn off. I'll take a smaller build volume and being able to choose my own camera over getting sucked into a propriety printer platform. With Prusa being open source, the community and grow and upgrade it; and you'll have the choice to upgrade to those features or not. Also, Prusa needs to be rewarded for rebelling against the planned obsolescence norms with what they did with backwards compatibility.
That's part of the reason I don't have a X1 or P1S. At this point, I may end up just building a Voron or a Ratrig or something. I was waiting to see what Prusa would release, and this just isn't what I was hoping for.
I can’t help but giggle when you talk about it going toe to toe with bamboo. Have you ever used a Prusa? Straight out of the box, dimensional accuracy, and I’m not just talking about accuracy within itself printing one of those little stupid clearance test. We’re talking about dimensional, accuracy, and engineering parts that fit on something else out in the real world. I’ve never had a Prusa printer that couldn’t print some thing and just using the default profile for the correct filament nails the measurements the P1 P printer I had besides horrible layer lines and awful overhangs, and probably the worst seams I’ve seen in the industry could never nail dimensional, accuracy and has to be tweaked endlessly to get parts to fit.
The question then would be, why does Bambu have such a reputation for being easy to use if they are so bad? Honestly. Because the X1C costs more than a MK4 and yet they sold a ton of them. Why did people review them so well? Are they really worse? I don't own one. I'm asking.
Coming from a ender 3 to a X1C changed the game for me, the prints are perfect, the calibration does take some time but that just gives better successful prints. The ease of press print from my computer before leaving for work and checking it throughout the day via phone app is just easy, notifications if anything goes wrong. I’ve never had to reach out to support yet so can’t say how well that will be but for the price and technology packed I can see why it’s selling well. Support is through the BamBu labs forum/ Wiki which are detailed and explained very well with pictures. Any kind of error code will display with a QR code leading to the wiki page of that error. The speed and quality is unparalleled.
Okay so, first of all… Prusa does not work “out of the box”. Look no further than the XL’s numerous failures where the printer feels more like a beta version. Second, Bambu printers typically work out of the box. They have their failures like anything else, but their reputation is there.
There will release a 270X270X270 core one S version next year. Just add a 9 XL tiles and decrease the dentition on left and right (which a steel sheet which can be done easly).
If the proposed tariffs of 60%-100% on Chinese goods and a 10%-20% tax on imports are applied, the price of the Bambu Lab X1 Carbon could rise significantly. For example, the base price of $1,199 could increase by $719 to $1,199 with the tariffs, bringing the price to $1,918 to $2,398. Adding a 10%-20% tax would further increase it by $120 to $240, potentially making the final price anywhere from $2,038 to $3,438. This cost hike would be passed on to consumers
If Bambu printers are making money they can move factories to Vietnam or India for example. No one is going to sit their factory in China and lose money. These tariff is not so much making domestic production competitive but to destroy chinas status as world factory.
I agree. I think the ones that would disappear are the pure knock-off cheapo clones on Amazon. Not enough brand recognition there to be worth moving. I also suspect we'll see lots of companies doing the regulatory arbitrage thing, where parts might be made in China, shipped to Vietnam/Malaysia/Philippines, relabeled, and then imported to the US that way to obscure the origin and bypass the tariff.
I'd be interested to see MK4 sales vs. Prusa's predictions. Because the same things were said when that was released 18 months ago. According to some commentators they shouldn't even still be in business to be able to produce a CORE One :D (Instead, they grew the company even larger from then until now). Obviously an EU manufactured printer with bundled 24/7 live support is never going to compete cost wise with anything coming from China.
I'm sure they have sold a lot of Mk4's. But the question isn't "did they sell a lot" it's "did they sell as many as they should have". Of course Prusa didn't just collapse, but the real question is would their growth be larger if they took a different track? I personally think they are trying to shift more upmarket, get into more commercial channels. There's less competition from Asian manufacturers there. Bigger margins. Regulatory barriers they can cover that imports struggle with.
@@TechDregs For a while there they appeared to sell as many as they *could* have with the backorder. But yes, I think upmarket, higher margins proves to be a smarter move for markets like this- focus on quality, support, and serviceability instead of raw features lists (not that this printer doesn't have a few clever features - the X1C i use at work still asks to crack the printer door open when printing PLA sometimes!)
yeah but you are comparing EU made vs China made in price. Prusa isnt innovator but you get better quality and support. Problem with 3D printer enthusiast is that they always want new stuff... comparing spec. speeds features etc., but most of the market wants to print and get good support or EU based support, mostly for companies that depend on 3d printing also managing printers form prusa connect or mobile app, etc. And dont forget that bambu just forked whole prusa slicer and some time slicer code wasnt even published so they violated the license. Sorry but in my view this comparison doesn't make any sense. China always win in price its not even a question. In my view my Voron 2.4 awd (48V) is the best, i can print over 500mm/s but is it for everyone ? I dont think so.
@@TechDregs I mean for some for sure, But for peoples that see price as number one aspect, prusa is already dead. I dont know what percentage of people that is, but assume its majority. I think Prusa is already smaller player on market. But these are just my assumptions.
Completely agree. This was my reaction as well. Just more disappointment from Prusa. Coming from an ex Prusa fan boy, it hurts to see them release 3 year old "inovations"... again.
What do you mean "they explained"? The only thing I see is them saying the optional camera isn't ready yet, but I don't see any explanation for why it's optional.
@@TechDregs Well, their machines are often designed for their print farm. That's often why they don't include this. In bigger farms, you don't need cameras. Same for the filters, they use active external filtering, so for them put filter on is no brain. But if you run something smaller, it would be nice have some. So they make it optional. Most of their product is meant to be run at farm. And if you want to use it standalone you can just optionaly upgrade it. I know most of youtube reviews, are just one machine testing. But their primary focus is somewhere else.
@@TechDregs it is because of the security. many companies seem to prohibit cameras in their 3d printers, so they make the camera optional. lower price for the printer itself, but I do agree - for the "Prusa price" it should be at least a very cheap upgrade. but that's another topic - Prusa is indeed very expensive
Possibly so. I should maybe distinguish, I actually have different criticisms for the size vs the camera/filter thing. The size I get was likely a cost savings approach that simplified their inventory logistics and preserved the upgrade path from the MK4s. I don't like that decision, but I get why they would make it. A bigger printer would have cost more in materials and required multiple new parts for logistics to handle. The camera and filter thing I think was simply a bad business decision. They've already paid the design costs for those. So, the only cost savings on their end is the actual components and install, which are honestly trivial. Seriously, HD usb camera PCBs and the filters likely cost ~$1-2 on the manufacturers side. You can buy those things for $5, retail, individually packaged. It makes very little sense to me to leave them out, even if you're optimizing for print farms, given that you've already designed for them and every other printer in this class has them.
Their video says the print area is 250x220 at 1m19s. That's also what their website and blog say. I haven't seen anywhere saying it's 250x250. What part of the video says otherwise?
t the end of the day you are either happy supporting chinese companies with cheap products that are out of date after 6 months, or you actually appreciate companies that pay living wages, made in EU and offer incredible support and backwards compatibility. Me after printing for 14 years and never buying a printer always just building my own the prusa core one will be the first i buy.
I think Bambu and Prusa are pretty clear where they differ. Prusa is Higher quality, repairability, upgradability, security and support at the cost of a higher price. Bambu is offering an all in one solution that is also high quality and a competitive price. They lack support, security and you can forget about upgrading without buying a new machine. It's up to the customer to decide what they value in that dynamic. I can understand either choice. I do have to disagree with your assessment of the MMU. Have you ever used one? I think it is perfectly capable, I've been printing multicolor and it has worked perfectly for me. I like that you get 5 colors instead of 4. And it produces a lot less waste then Bambu's system because it does not cut the filament. No poop, just a wipe tower.
I haven't used any of the multi material setups, so I absolutely admit my view is based on ignorance there. Just pure "what do they look like". *edit* I mean my current printer has dual extruders, but not any of the fancy systems like the MMU.
@@TechDregs From what I've seen the MMU3 is faster and less wasteful than the AMS. But I agree it doesn't look nearly as "finished" and it lacks the individual motors for auto-loading. I really think they should at least integrate it and its buffers into a dry box at the very least for the next version.
The top mounted box also handles the problem of "where do I put my filament spools" nicely, IMO. I would basically never use multi material for a single print. But I could have two colors of PLA, a spool of ASA, and one more of PETG which I could instantly load without having to do anything. The hassle of swapping stuff out drops way off in that type of setup. And material waste would be nil in that situation.
I think the real problem here is the P1S. Very similar feature set for way less money. I agree that I'd be hesitant to take a Creality until they demonstrate some long term quality. But Bambu Lab has a decent reputation. That's the bigger issue.
Still in business? Creality is one of the largest companies in 3D printing. Like, probably an order of magnitude larger than Prusa. They sell a crap ton of product.
No It's too late While they were losing time with the XL they should've teamed with peopoly and fully developed the magneto X Now they just look like they are copy cats... I feel like this may be IT for Prusa It's sad.... I love love love them I've got 2 minis, Mk3s+ and a bear mk3.5s.... If it weren't for Prusa I'd never been able to build my Vorons
As a designer on Printables, I will have to design to the print size limitations of the Ender3 and MK3 for to foreseeable future regardless of the new print sizes. I think most designers are in the same situation. People are currently upset when you say your model can't be printed on a Prusa Mini. I just hope the Core One can do what my MK3s have been able to do, run 4 years 24/7 without a failure. ( I have replaced the plastic part at the top of the extruder that the filament runs thru on each MK3 three times. ... That's It !!! , A 7 minute printed part you can change in 1 minute)
I would have liked a slightly larger print bed as well, but yes other than a few very large things (that won't fit on things shy of 300 mm3), the vast majority of my prints are much smaller than the existing bed.
I basically only print my own designs, and often those are one off enclosures for projects. Those tend to take up a lot of XY space, because they are mostly low and flat.
@@TechDregs Yeah I wouldn't have complained if they made it 250 x 250 x 270 (hell, it would be Prusa-like to have it still be compatible with your old build sheets, but just with a limited XY in those cases!). I have a larger machine though, and of course by definition when your large machine is printing a large part, it's going to take a while even with a "fast coreXY". So I still get plenty of use out of what for me is the other 90% of parts (stuff that prints on a Prusa Mini much less MK4).
About 2 minutes 30 seconds in you speculate why Prusa is using parts from the MK4 for the core. I think there is another consideration. I worked in New Product Development and what I think happened is they have an engineering team that is making incremental improvements to their design. I have been with design teams where we get a new head of engineering and he takes us down an entirely new path and we always end up behind schedule, over budget and with a buggy system. I always argue for taking the existing design and improving it for the next generation. Since Prusa is probably the head engineer he is probably the reason for the consistent improvements. I think they made the right choice. Having an MK4 upgrade is just a cherry on top.
It creates some design constraints, namely build volume, that put them behind the competition. They could’ve kept a significant part of the development they already have from the software, bed heater, extruder, etc without forcing the upgrade path.
Upgrade != iterative design
it's too much focus on the engineering process and too little focus on actually being competitive in the market. that isn't to say it's a bad thing, it's just what prusa focuses on. they have a dedicated consumer base & im sure they make enough money to keep it going the way they want to.
i think they do need to offer something competitive to stay afloat because they will fade away from the market eventually if their trend continues.
@ I think they are geared to sell to print farms. That is one reason the footprint stayed the same . They already have a large format printer. Is there enough market demand for something a little bigger. Plus there service autos outstanding. I still get support for my MK3 many years latter.
I am all for improving on existing products, but a larger build volume, a second printer head or anything that sticks out would have been nice.
I'll stick with the Prusa
Lol will stick with Bambu,,PRUSA is a wacky cult following for overpriced machines and is falling behind in everything,oh and that Halloween year-round look is not acceptable , Bambu has set the bar with there their Apple 🍎 like build and look it's the Apple for 3D printers. PRUSA is a ripoff from the past but I do thank them for pioneering the way now it's time to get out the way.
This is the first step in the right direction. I think Prusa was surprised by the Chinese Bambu, most likely funded by Chinese government. It’s hard to compete with employees that work 24x7. Still happy with my MK3 -> MK4 upgrade. What happens if your Bambu breaks after two years, do you throw it away or are you able to repair it. With Prusa, if the company is still running, you can order spare parts. Even if the company goes bankrupt it is open source. If the core 1 had a tool changer I would buy it, for now I stick with the MK4 and support Prusa by buying Prusament.
I disagree on the build volume part. I rarely feel like i need a bigger volume than i have on my MK4S. I'm just excited to be able to get a printer that has a slightly larger print volume but takes up far less space. I do agree thought that the bigger print height is rather pointless.
Same. I mean it depends on what you are printing, but in more than 10 years I only had a hand full of projects where I needed something bigger than, lets say 200x200x200. A good printer isn't defined by its build volume, but ridiculously this is always the first thing mentioned when a machine is being criticized.
There really isn't much doubt that Prusa has aimed to make a printer that shares a lot of components with MK4 and is able to replace it.
This way, they avoid direct competition with many of the "next size up" Core-XY printers and provide a more compact alternative to bed slingers with comparable build volume.
I know I'm a fanboy. Since i3, I've always had a Prusa in my collection. Others have come and gone. Some have even been my preferred - for some time at least.
Only Prusa have been the ones I've kept around.
I'll most likely upgrade my MK4S and reuse the MMU3. It's been stupid reliable for more than 1100 hours - even for TPU, ASA and PC-CF.
Just sold my SV06. It's a fine printer - had no real issues, but I basically only used it's larger bed for Gridfinity baseplates...
A FLSun T1 Pro will take its place in a few days, depending on the postal services. Let's see how that works.
@@JonLinde i am still happy with my I3 mk2 that has 1000s hours on it but still runs perfectly just changed the few thing thats wear over time and that is it
I agree, I’ve never needed more x or y but I’ve always found myself topping out or having to wish for more vertical space.
I think it’s pretty clever move
I would suspect Prusa with its over million printable objects on printables ran a few queries and analyze a little bit of data to see what an optimum build plate and build volume would be. These guys know what they’re doing. The only thing they’re gonna have to fight is the marketing hype and bamboo fanboys.
Prusa's products seem to be designed more for their existing large business customers (e.g. themselves) than the general public in mind. Well run businesses optimize the total lifetime cost of their capex (machines), and frequently find that improved reliability, ease of maintenance, and long term support provide more value than newest features that grab's a average consumer's attention. Prusa highlighted many of these points of strength in their Core One launch video. IMHO, the Core One's interoperability with existing MK4s consumables and smaller footprint compared MK4s were conscious decisions to make it attractive for existing Prusa print farms looking to expand their business.
For personal use where large print volumes, multi material, and price are more important, the Core one is pass. For business use in print farms, Prusa's continual commitment to features important to businesses makes the Core One worth considering, even in face of other products with cheaper up front costs.
If you buy the printer that says "AI cameras" on the box, then I ultimately don't understand your priorities. Prusa has always been the best choice imo, as they know to keep unnecessary complexity out. I don't want them to push the price down, because that inevitably will destroy quality/reliability, which is the only real consideration. 12000+ Euro down on filaments only, and the price difference of a few hounded per printer becomes irrelevant. Repairability, parts availability and documentation is way more important. They could double their price and still be relevant, imo.
The build volume is about 30mm less in one dimension, but 20mm greater in another than the base Voron Trident. And this printer DOES have 3 drive screws on the bed so it might be able to 3 point level the bed like the Trident does. It also can store two rolls of filament inside the printer (outside the chamber), you can do that with a user mod on the Trident as well. I hope they will consider making a "plus" version of this printer with a larger build surface, but I think most users will find the build volume meeting their needs. If I were to build a Voron Trident, I'd do the 300mm one just to get the internal spool option, but the 250mm would meet my needs. Now I think that I would consider the Prusa kit (the $250 difference between the assembled unit and the kit will buy LOTS of filament, or most of the MMU upgrade).
Let's not forget that Bambu Labs is a CLOSED SOURCE system, and it ties you to the cloud. Prusa is OPEN SOURCE, and for that reason I wouldn't touch Bambu labs with a 10 foot pole.
I bought a K1 and returned it. It had the bad hotend and extruder that the first units did, and was supposed to have been upgraded. Then they came out with the K1C. I trust Prusa more than Creality, the Chinese built stuff to a price point, which leaves to questions in quality.
There already is a "plus" version of the Prusa Core One: It's the Prusa XL.
My personal want was a 300x300. I would have been shocked at that though... I think they won't go there to avoid eating into XL sales.
I agree on some of the issues with BL. Their approach to keeping things closed (and reliance on cloud) has honestly been one of the big reasons I never bought one. That's why I wanted this to be just a bit more. This kind of looks like a P1S that costs $400 more The things I wanted from them? A little more X and Y travel, the camera should be included, and a hardened nozzle (with a normal brass one also). Then it would be way more compelling for me at $1000.
@@CraigTrader ehh... In my opinion, not quite, if only they made a truly enclosed variant that didn't use that ugly shade "enclosure" it could probably be marketed that way.
An enclosed, temperature controlled, open source, made in EU printer, reliable and fast IS completely unique. But yeah, the filter imo isn't really an option, it's just make sens to have one
Unless you’re in America, then it’s gonna be made in the USA
@Eric_In_SF Im fine with that!
I guess I just disagree. It's really not, other than "made in EU". The temperature control actually just means a vent. It's only partially open source, which, so is the K1. It lacks a multiple features that it's competition has. It's most direct analog would really be the Bambu Lab P1S imo, but even that has a camera. I think the CORE One is better than a P1S due to IP rights and support, but is it $400-500 better? Because that's the price difference. I think they will sell a few, but I think with a few changes it would be a much, much stronger value proposition.
@@Eric_In_SF Prusa's decision to have Prusa printers to be made in the USA is a wise business move given President elect Trump new proposed tariff of 20% and possible 60% for Chinese imports - will be interesting times ahead.
@@crazyethanyeahyeah With regards to tariffs, the US made Prusa printers (made down the road from me at PrintedSolid) will still be made from parts sourced outside of the US. They are really only assembled in the US. The parts will be subject to tariffs. I don't know how many of the parts will come from Prusa, or if PrintedSolid will be getting the parts not made by Prusa directly from Prusa's suppliers. For example, I believe the motors are all LDO, doesn't really make sense to ship PrintedSolid's motors from LDO (China) to Czechia and then to the US. Would still be subject to any tariffs for original source being China, but with double the shipping handling. Especially since PrintedSolid already had a supplier relationship with LDO as they carried LDO motors for Prusa printers (without the Prusa laser-engraved branding) before Prusa bought PrintedSolid. Same thing for bearings, rods, screws, etc.
I’ve dealt with bamboo customer service and Prusa customer service and based on those two experiences alone, Prusa is by far the better choice. And my particular instance was such a nightmare, at six months of back-and-forth and eventually filing a chargeback and getting my money refunded that I would never purchase another bamboo product. I hope tariffs destroy their company. ;)
u asked for refund and noone knows why. useless comment keep hating
Dont buy a Prusa if you want something that is value for money. Made in EU is not going to be cheap.
It's a good incremental upgrade. I think people and Prusa fans just wish this came out 2 years earlier after the MK3 series rather than in response to the rest of the market. I bought an MK4 a year ago and wish I had this machine instead. Not enough to upgrade it though.
Most of these things seem a bit like small stuff. Would have liked it better if they had borrowed the build plate from the AFS rather than the Mk4, but it's a bit more understandable if they are pushing for the upgrade path from the Mk4S. I do think the temperature controlled chamber is a big plus - although it's unclear if it's heated or not. It does sound like it'll be able to handle filaments like Polyarbonate better than most of their competition, though.
I'm sure the gears of the Nextruder are fine for carbon fiber and other abrasives - I've thrown a lot at it without problems. They're definitely not brass, as they are not not a yellow color. But yeah, in their usual fashion a lot of stuff is optional add-ons. Although to be fair - it's hard for a company in the EU to compete on price, so reducing the base component cost makes sense. I don't think Prusa is ever going to have price / feature parity as long as they keep manufacturing in the EU & USA.
When CoreXY and Klipper appeared, I thought Prusa would contract and even collapse, but instead, despite using bedslingers with Marlin, they simply doubled their business. The truth is that the speed is nice to have a small part done, but when it comes to printing 17-20 hours the reliability is key, and they offer just that, reliability and the best surface quality. As for the print size.... watch what 3dsets does for the size of just 180mm ''Mini'' class .....
Lol, comparing a Prusa or Bambu against a Creality is like comparing a Nissan to an Audi. Sure, they are both cars but no one would argue there is a substantial leap in quality if you pay more.
Great video, thank you !
I bought a Bambu. Still like my Prusa. I think what you’re missing is that we can fix our printer. I can not fix the known problems with bambu. Prusa last so much longer. Also my bambu may have a bigger bed but it won’t let me print the whole bed because it does all these checks. I would do prusa hands down. There is instructions and a manual for everything. Bambu frustrates me with not instructions.
If I were setting up a small print farm, my money would be with PRUSA. The Bambu P1S I have has been great, but I am very worried when this thing breaks down. The Bambu tech support has a less than stellar reputation. I wouldn't think twice if I were buying 10+ printers. The PRUSA's would be rock solid with minimal downtime. That's all money...
Did you notice in the announcement video Josef mentioned how easy it is to replace a single, wornout idler? I saw that and thought "Shots Fired".
I operate two MK4, XL 5T and HT90 at work - and in a long term, the higher price is justified. You can repair everything - no need to buy whole modules, we dont worry about our prototypes being transfered via cloud to some sweatshop - and dont forget the PrusaSlicer which is "free" for everyone. It is by far the best (and I tried probably most of slicers). Its fast, intuitive, open ... if You want to torture Yourselves try Phrozen DS slicer (thats the worst i worked with) :D
Development and improvements to PrusaSlicer also cost a lot of money - which is "paid" by slightly higher prices of the printers.
But with Core ONE - i think that price point is much better than for older printer. Now I dont see a reason why would I buy MK4S kit compared to Core ONE kit.
So - no revolution, but reasonable evolution.
just yesterday before the prusa announcement I ordered my new QIDI Plus4 printer and I probably won't change it, for about 200$ less with better specs (size, temperature) and probably comparable print quality. Plus it can print some industrial filaments that the prusa can only handle with the HT90 at 10x the price
I would have talked more about the new QIDI printers, but I didn't want to belabor the point. Their newest stuff is interesting too. I'm also just less familiar with them as a company.
I like how you know the two printers have "probably comparable quality" when you haven't even received the first one and the other one was just announced. 😂
@@cxvxcbcxn That's why I write "probably". Because I have to decide now and I can't wait till next year. And really, even if they were in stock I'm not going to buy both so I can then see which prints better. One will always have to rely on the sources of info from others.
With prusa I would say that the print quality will be at a similar level to the current prusa printers, for the reason that they also try to maximize the use of most of the hw across their printers (nextruder, main board, probably also belts, ...).
According to Aurora Tech (I recommend you take a look) the Qidi prints comparably to the bambulab or prusa XL, what the prusa is better at is print accuracy, however the Qidi is slightly on the median. I myself regret not going to Prusa again (I have a Prusa mini), partly because they are based in the same city. Unfortunately, as many others have said, they missed the train.
@@cxvxcbcxn That's why I write "probably". Because I have to decide now and I can't wait till next year. And really, even if they were in stock I'm not going to buy both so I can then see which prints better. One will always have to rely on the sources of info from others.
With prusa I would say that the print quality will be at a similar level to the current prusa printers, for the reason that they also try to maximize the use of most of the hw across their printers (nextruder, main board, probably also belts, ...).
According to Aurora Tech (I recommend you take a look) the Qidi prints comparably to the bambulab or prusa XL, what the prusa is better at is print accuracy, however the Qidi is slightly on the median. I myself regret not going to Prusa again (I have a Prusa mini), partly because they are based in the same city. Unfortunately, as many others have said, they missed the train.
That's why I write "probably". Because I have to decide now and I can't wait till next year. And really, even if they were in stock I'm not going to buy both so I can then see which prints better. One will always have to rely on the sources of info from others.
With prusa I would say that the print quality will be at a similar level to the current prusa printers, for the reason that they also try to maximize the use of most of the hw across their printers (nextruder, main board, probably also belts, ...).
According to Aurora Tech (I recommend you take a look) the Qidi prints comparably to the bambulab or prusa XL, what the prusa is better at is print accuracy, however the Qidi is slightly on the median. I myself regret not going to Prusa again (I have a Prusa mini), partly because they are based in the same city. Unfortunately, as many others have said, they missed the train.
As someone who uses the AMS for the P1S, would the Prusa MMU be significantly less wasteful? Great video!
No, it is also a multi-filament, single extruder system. It will have to perform the purging process to switch materials. Waste will still be in the same ballpark.
Aurora tech compares the MMU3 against the AMS in her mk4s review. The mmu is wastes less filament, and is faster than the AMS.
Mmu3 has significantly less waste than Ams and cfs. You can find it everywhere. In last version of Bambu slicer they corrected waste but still is significantly more than mmu3. Its because cutting and wasting lot of filament. Its not so much about just cleaning nozzle.
@@Subliminal_Panda you’re completely incorrect. It uses a wipe tower, not a purge tower, but it backs the filament out without cutting it so there’s no need to poop. there are plenty of videos that show that the Prusa will use a significantly less amount of waste. If I recall, it was about half the amount of waste or less.
But on the bamboo side, the AMS is a much cleaner system as far as it’s physical set up
@@Subliminal_Panda
The Mmu retracts most filament back out of the extruder only leaving the small amount of filament melted in the hot end to purge. It is both faster and less wasteful compared to the ams.
A big plus for any Prusa is that you can replace parts / repair it yourself. Otherwise i would say too little too late and i really need more volume / a bigger printbed for my projects.
So instead of this, overdue prusa corexy version, i will probably buy a RatriG V4 500cm2 with 2 printheads (IDEX Upgrade).
Is that not why they have the XL?
Prusa Core One tends to suggest that enclosed CoreXY is a superior option to a bedslinger. I tend to agree, but, given a BambuLab P1S is less than half the price and prints like a boss then it seems like a no brainer to me that it is a better choice.
Given we know there is something new coming from BambuLab in the new year then it looks to me that Prusa are again rushing out the announcement of the Core One - it doesn't ship until January.......
The GPIO, filter, and camera should be included. The idea that nobody needs a camera is ludicrous. If a print fails, it’s helpful to know when and why that failure occurred, and you cannot always discern this from the spaghetti mess that comes out.
The build volume is a huge disappointment. If they had just stretched it to 350 cubed, they’d have a hot seller on their hands despite the price. They *need to* find a cutoff point for MK1->MK4S->Core One upgrades or they’ll be locked into this build volume forever, becoming continually less competitive every time.
The printer is fine. What is it what you are actually doing with a camera...you are checking if your print failed! Besides from making time lapses a build in camera is a testament for low print success rate. To monitor your hardware with a camera is a sign of low confidence in the hardware and printing process. Imagine a printer so good and reliable it doesn't need a camera to check on it. ;)
Just like those $150 printers on Amazon! Lack of camera is proof of their quality. :-)
@@TechDregs Oh...I thought the bambu lab mini has a camera already. My bad. Must be quality then.
@@TechDregsNever needed a camera in nearly a decade and a half printing, don't see the point to be honest.
As usual with Prusa the price is absurd, for me here in Australia to get one to my door is over $2400. I can get a Bambu Labs X1C for that with an ams which is a far better printer and still have change to buy a Bambu Labs A1 combo which on its own is better than this printer lol.
Everything what X1C can do core one will do but better and faster. I would go for Prusa.
The it department will have less issues with Prusa.
Self admittedly I tend to be a *bit* of a Prusa fan boy, so buying this was a no brainer for me. I ordered as soon as it was announced after I finished looking through the features and spec sheet. But aside from the build plate XY area which I honestly do not see as a major issue, many of the arguements you've made are valid. I do not see Prusa as the market leader any more. They are not the most compelling option for the average Joe who JUST wants a printer that works out of the box. Thinking of the main appeal to me, and the reason i was so eager to buy, I wanted a natively enclosed CoreXY FROM PRUSA. Now, i have many reasons for specifically wanting a Prusa that transcend the fact that it is from a particular brand, repairability and support come to mind, but at the end of the day regardless of the reason, the main feature is that it is a Prusa and that the Prusa business is standing behind it, and it's designed with their design philosophy! When compared to the offerings from BBL, be it the A1 Mini, A1, X1C, or what have you, Prusa's comparable machine is significantly more expensive when configured with the same options that the BBL comes with.... I do not think Prusa will go belly up any time soon but I do think they are much more "niche" than they once were. The Prusa customer is a very specific person who for whatever reason specifically wants to steer clear from BBL or Creality. They want to buy a Prusa, in the same way someone who wants an iPhone wants to buy an iPhone, they do not care if a Samsung or other android offering is objectively better or more cost effective. They are a maker and a tinkerer, but they want to tinker on their own time, they do not want to be locked into a non moddable machine like BBL, but they do not want to be forced into it by working on their printer to make it work like a creality which tends to have issues or design flaws out of the box and is rough around the edges. Maybe they don't want to support China and would rather support the Czech Republic/EU. Maybe they like to vote with their money for a company that seemingly shares their morals when it comes to open source and right to repair. But you need to have an appreciation for their business and design philosophy. I am willing to pay the Prusa tax, for many reasons, not just the ones i listed. I definitely fit the bill for the type of person who is a Prusa customer, but I cannot deny they are clearly not the market leader they once were, it's a sad sight to behold. That said, I appreciate they have not forgotten who they are in the pursuit of endless profit, that they hold on to what makes them a somewhat unique business. It will be interesting to see if they continue towards the trajectory they're headed, that is, the premium option for tinkerers (think of brands like iFixIt), or if they're able to regain a similar level of market share to what they once had.
A real Prusa fanboy would’ve ordered the kit :-)
Also, Prusa has had a core XY machine for several years. The XL
@@Eric_In_SF I wanted the kit, but since it's not a available I had to settle for the assembled printer if I wanted my spot in line.
The XL is not what I'd consider a competitor to the BBL X1C. It sits outside the price, it's not enclosed, and has multiple tool heads, a totally different set of features versus the X1C. I've wanted one for a while, but the whole thing that makes it attractive to me would be the multiple tools heads. Unfortunately $3500 plus tax and shipping for the fully loaded version kit was a stretch for me, haven't ponied up that cash yet. Otherwise I'd have it by now. Eventually I'll get one, but grabbing the Core One is gonna push that back at least till 2026. Why not just get the 1 or two head you ask? To that I say go big or go home ;)
You can’t compete with printers from china, they are always going to be cheaper to manufacture hence the prices for what you get in eu/usa. Personally I like the core one.
And the Prusa printers just print better and don't spy on you, are manufactured without slave labour and so on
People like me don’t mind paying a little extra for that peace of mind, but I still shop by specs - and the specs are disappointing. Upgrade path based development completely screwed then unless they have a larger one coming out.
Also, Prusa still sources some parts from China. There’s no way to avoid them entirely.
Ok, sorry to ask, but what is the big deal about a camera? I've been beating the hell out of my MK4 (now MK4S) for a couple of years now and I've never had any need to monitor it. I hit print, it prints, end of story. I think it messes up 1 out of a100 prints and that's usually attributed to me not slicing a model correctly. So for me personally, I couldn't give a crap about the camera.
Also, having a MK4S, I can now upgrade to the Core One far cheaper than it would be to buy a lot of enclosed printers. I'm very happy they went in the direction they did, because it'll save me money and allow me to keep a lot of what made my MK4 bulletproof.
Call me a Prusa fanboy if you want, but I see little reason to abandon ship any time soon. I've been happy with my printer since day 1, and it gives me far less grief than my friends who went with other options.
Bambu may be the Ferrari of printers, but I'll happily drive around in my low maintenance, highly reliable Toyota Corolla.
A camera can be useful for debugging why a print failed if it’s not immediately obvious. I do think it’s more of a “nice to have” than a dealbreaker, but still…
Based on your accent, I am going to assume you are an American. Can your cars compete with Chinese cars on price, if not for the extra taxes put on them? No? So why the hexx to you expect a Prusa to beat their Chinese counterparts on price? Being a European company, I don't think the price was all that bad! Okay, it may not bring entirely new features. But it brings them Prusa-style! Backed by support that is second to none in this segment, and supported for years to come! Ever since the X1C hit the scene, I have wanted for Prusa to bring their version. I simply can't muster any enthusiasm for any of the Chinese printers! Qidi was close, simply because they brought the heated chamber. But a few fires later, I did not care for one any more. Privacy is clearly not a thing for these companies. That is one of the things I like about Prusa! You CAN completely air-gap your printers, and even use an offline computer for slicing, if you want to! Although it would be nice with an included camera, at least you will get one. And you can unplug it, should you feel like it. So the great news here is not the feature-list! It's the fact that it's a Prusa!!! Get over this size-thing-please! People still build 120cm cubed Voron 0.2's. There is a marked for this size. And I think it was a smart move for them to expand upon the MK4; simply because a lot of people whom recently bought their MK4's now won't be left behind. What they loose in sales due to "sma size", they will make up for in sold upgrade-kits! I'll agree that I had hoped for 300cm cubed. But this is a new series of printers. How much imagination does it take to figure out where that may take things? Obviously a replacement for the Mini. But I feel pretty confident they will also release a larger one eventually. Probably not to close to the XL, to avoid eating to much of it's market share. But likely around 300cm.
Obviously, since you’re judging people in their accents, you’re definitely not an American so you have no idea that Chinese cars aren’t even allowed in this country because they can’t pass basic safety testing. that’s the real reason. Chinese cars are cheaper because they’re flimsy garbage and doesn’t have stringent regulations. it’s the same reason Tesla can sell cars in China for much cheaper because they don’t have to put in all the safety, crumpled zones and padding and buffering
So true. Some people's brains just switch off if something is a bit cheaper and made with slave labour while destroying your own economy.
So you'd be happy with this at any size and any price? I mean, if people build Vorons at 120mm cube, then you'd be happy if the CORE One were 120mm cube? And still cost $1000? Obviously, at some point, these things matter.
FWIW, I would have LOVED this thing at 300x300 XY.
@TechDregs its not perfect but this is the only just werks machine that would get my money. Bambu is horrible for patenting the voron gantry as their own. And as well as trying to patent parts of their slicer that is built on top of prusa.
@@TechDregs I did not say any of the things you brought up here. And you did it answer any of what I said. Why trying to shift focus? Are you that lacking in arguments for your perspective?
FYI, a high end Voron 0.2 kit is not all that much cheaper than the Core One kit. And they still sell!
I use my MK3 to build things for my other hobbies and I will always support a U.S. or EU based company over anything in China. In addition, the support alone is worth the extra cost. As for the extras, many of us don’t need them. Why buy and have all the extra failure points if they aren’t needed? I’d much rather have a basic and very reliable machine that I can add extras to if needed.
Bambu Lab's proprietary grasp they have on customers is such a turn off. I'll take a smaller build volume and being able to choose my own camera over getting sucked into a propriety printer platform. With Prusa being open source, the community and grow and upgrade it; and you'll have the choice to upgrade to those features or not.
Also, Prusa needs to be rewarded for rebelling against the planned obsolescence norms with what they did with backwards compatibility.
That's part of the reason I don't have a X1 or P1S. At this point, I may end up just building a Voron or a Ratrig or something. I was waiting to see what Prusa would release, and this just isn't what I was hoping for.
I can’t help but giggle when you talk about it going toe to toe with bamboo. Have you ever used a Prusa? Straight out of the box, dimensional accuracy, and I’m not just talking about accuracy within itself printing one of those little stupid clearance test. We’re talking about dimensional, accuracy, and engineering parts that fit on something else out in the real world. I’ve never had a Prusa printer that couldn’t print some thing and just using the default profile for the correct filament nails the measurements the P1 P printer I had besides horrible layer lines and awful overhangs, and probably the worst seams I’ve seen in the industry could never nail dimensional, accuracy and has to be tweaked endlessly to get parts to fit.
So true
The question then would be, why does Bambu have such a reputation for being easy to use if they are so bad? Honestly. Because the X1C costs more than a MK4 and yet they sold a ton of them. Why did people review them so well? Are they really worse? I don't own one. I'm asking.
Coming from a ender 3 to a X1C changed the game for me, the prints are perfect, the calibration does take some time but that just gives better successful prints. The ease of press print from my computer before leaving for work and checking it throughout the day via phone app is just easy, notifications if anything goes wrong. I’ve never had to reach out to support yet so can’t say how well that will be but for the price and technology packed I can see why it’s selling well. Support is through the BamBu labs forum/ Wiki which are detailed and explained very well with pictures. Any kind of error code will display with a QR code leading to the wiki page of that error. The speed and quality is unparalleled.
Okay so, first of all… Prusa does not work “out of the box”. Look no further than the XL’s numerous failures where the printer feels more like a beta version.
Second, Bambu printers typically work out of the box. They have their failures like anything else, but their reputation is there.
There will release a 270X270X270 core one S version next year. Just add a 9 XL tiles and decrease the dentition on left and right (which a steel sheet which can be done easly).
basically they will play with AFS printer which is 3x3 tiles
If the proposed tariffs of 60%-100% on Chinese goods and a 10%-20% tax on imports are applied, the price of the Bambu Lab X1 Carbon could rise significantly. For example, the base price of $1,199 could increase by $719 to $1,199 with the tariffs, bringing the price to $1,918 to $2,398. Adding a 10%-20% tax would further increase it by $120 to $240, potentially making the final price anywhere from $2,038 to $3,438. This cost hike would be passed on to consumers
At that point, many 3d printers would be toast. Those companies just would exit. But perhaps you'd see a resurgence of companies like Lulzbot.
If Bambu printers are making money they can move factories to Vietnam or India for example. No one is going to sit their factory in China and lose money. These tariff is not so much making domestic production competitive but to destroy chinas status as world factory.
I agree. I think the ones that would disappear are the pure knock-off cheapo clones on Amazon. Not enough brand recognition there to be worth moving. I also suspect we'll see lots of companies doing the regulatory arbitrage thing, where parts might be made in China, shipped to Vietnam/Malaysia/Philippines, relabeled, and then imported to the US that way to obscure the origin and bypass the tariff.
350X350 is way too large, wasting material, space, electricity, time to preheat , cost, and much more. 250X250 to 280X280 is just about right.
My optimal would be 300x300, but I know that'd be bigger than most people would want. The Prusa XL is just absolutely gigantic.
Prusa has tile bad (used at XL and AFS) so they can scale by 9cm (9-18-27-36-) and heat just single tile... but it is costly
Very decent take, however one can't always make prusa fans happy
One can *always* make Prusa fans happy. They’ll gush over Prusa’s support while ignoring all the shortfalls (of which there are many)
I really thought they would have came out with a smaller multi head pinter. Guess not.
I'd be interested to see MK4 sales vs. Prusa's predictions. Because the same things were said when that was released 18 months ago. According to some commentators they shouldn't even still be in business to be able to produce a CORE One :D (Instead, they grew the company even larger from then until now). Obviously an EU manufactured printer with bundled 24/7 live support is never going to compete cost wise with anything coming from China.
Yeah it's funny how Prusa cannot keep up with orders and some small TH-camrs who got a free Bambulab printer fantasize about utter nonsense
I'm sure they have sold a lot of Mk4's. But the question isn't "did they sell a lot" it's "did they sell as many as they should have". Of course Prusa didn't just collapse, but the real question is would their growth be larger if they took a different track? I personally think they are trying to shift more upmarket, get into more commercial channels. There's less competition from Asian manufacturers there. Bigger margins. Regulatory barriers they can cover that imports struggle with.
@@TechDregs For a while there they appeared to sell as many as they *could* have with the backorder. But yes, I think upmarket, higher margins proves to be a smarter move for markets like this- focus on quality, support, and serviceability instead of raw features lists (not that this printer doesn't have a few clever features - the X1C i use at work still asks to crack the printer door open when printing PLA sometimes!)
if this thing can get multi print heads like xl.. im sold, if not hard pass
If they add that, it would be pretty awesome. But IDK if they have room in the enclosure to manage that.
yeah but you are comparing EU made vs China made in price. Prusa isnt innovator but you get better quality and support. Problem with 3D printer enthusiast is that they always want new stuff... comparing spec. speeds features etc., but most of the market wants to print and get good support or EU based support, mostly for companies that depend on 3d printing also managing printers form prusa connect or mobile app, etc. And dont forget that bambu just forked whole prusa slicer and some time slicer code wasnt even published so they violated the license. Sorry but in my view this comparison doesn't make any sense. China always win in price its not even a question. In my view my Voron 2.4 awd (48V) is the best, i can print over 500mm/s but is it for everyone ? I dont think so.
That may be, but if someone is looking to spend $1000-1500 on a printer, you don't think they will cross-shop them? They are natural competitors.
@@TechDregs I mean for some for sure, But for peoples that see price as number one aspect, prusa is already dead. I dont know what percentage of people that is, but assume its majority. I think Prusa is already smaller player on market. But these are just my assumptions.
Completely agree. This was my reaction as well. Just more disappointment from Prusa. Coming from an ex Prusa fan boy, it hurts to see them release 3 year old "inovations"... again.
Dude they explained why the camera isn't included. just look at the website.
What do you mean "they explained"? The only thing I see is them saying the optional camera isn't ready yet, but I don't see any explanation for why it's optional.
@@TechDregs Well, their machines are often designed for their print farm. That's often why they don't include this. In bigger farms, you don't need cameras. Same for the filters, they use active external filtering, so for them put filter on is no brain. But if you run something smaller, it would be nice have some. So they make it optional. Most of their product is meant to be run at farm. And if you want to use it standalone you can just optionaly upgrade it. I know most of youtube reviews, are just one machine testing. But their primary focus is somewhere else.
@@TechDregs it is because of the security. many companies seem to prohibit cameras in their 3d printers, so they make the camera optional. lower price for the printer itself, but I do agree - for the "Prusa price" it should be at least a very cheap upgrade. but that's another topic - Prusa is indeed very expensive
and you are right, they didn't mention it on their website, my bad! heard the security explanation somewhere else, sorry for that!
Possibly so. I should maybe distinguish, I actually have different criticisms for the size vs the camera/filter thing. The size I get was likely a cost savings approach that simplified their inventory logistics and preserved the upgrade path from the MK4s. I don't like that decision, but I get why they would make it. A bigger printer would have cost more in materials and required multiple new parts for logistics to handle. The camera and filter thing I think was simply a bad business decision. They've already paid the design costs for those. So, the only cost savings on their end is the actual components and install, which are honestly trivial. Seriously, HD usb camera PCBs and the filters likely cost ~$1-2 on the manufacturers side. You can buy those things for $5, retail, individually packaged. It makes very little sense to me to leave them out, even if you're optimizing for print farms, given that you've already designed for them and every other printer in this class has them.
You didnt watch the video you can print the entire bed. 250x250 is plenty.
Their video says the print area is 250x220 at 1m19s. That's also what their website and blog say. I haven't seen anywhere saying it's 250x250. What part of the video says otherwise?
@TechDregs when he shows the entire volume they print.
You got a timestamp? I don't see that anywhere in the announcement video.
@@TechDregs ok.
Not everyone wants a huge printer. Get an XL.
K1c all the way the rest is nice colors and names
t the end of the day you are either happy supporting chinese companies with cheap products that are out of date after 6 months, or you actually appreciate companies that pay living wages, made in EU and offer incredible support and backwards compatibility. Me after printing for 14 years and never buying a printer always just building my own the prusa core one will be the first i buy.
I think Bambu and Prusa are pretty clear where they differ.
Prusa is Higher quality, repairability, upgradability, security and support at the cost of a higher price.
Bambu is offering an all in one solution that is also high quality and a competitive price. They lack support, security and you can forget about upgrading without buying a new machine.
It's up to the customer to decide what they value in that dynamic. I can understand either choice.
I do have to disagree with your assessment of the MMU. Have you ever used one? I think it is perfectly capable, I've been printing multicolor and it has worked perfectly for me. I like that you get 5 colors instead of 4. And it produces a lot less waste then Bambu's system because it does not cut the filament. No poop, just a wipe tower.
I haven't used any of the multi material setups, so I absolutely admit my view is based on ignorance there. Just pure "what do they look like". *edit* I mean my current printer has dual extruders, but not any of the fancy systems like the MMU.
@@TechDregs From what I've seen the MMU3 is faster and less wasteful than the AMS. But I agree it doesn't look nearly as "finished" and it lacks the individual motors for auto-loading. I really think they should at least integrate it and its buffers into a dry box at the very least for the next version.
The top mounted box also handles the problem of "where do I put my filament spools" nicely, IMO. I would basically never use multi material for a single print. But I could have two colors of PLA, a spool of ASA, and one more of PETG which I could instantly load without having to do anything. The hassle of swapping stuff out drops way off in that type of setup. And material waste would be nil in that situation.
Such a stats comparison is the dumbest thing ever to do. Creality printers are just trash no matter how nice the stats sound on paper.
I think the real problem here is the P1S. Very similar feature set for way less money. I agree that I'd be hesitant to take a Creality until they demonstrate some long term quality. But Bambu Lab has a decent reputation. That's the bigger issue.
Creality? Hahahahaha! Are they even still in business?
Still in business? Creality is one of the largest companies in 3D printing. Like, probably an order of magnitude larger than Prusa. They sell a crap ton of product.
100% agree with you, no camera, no filters and no acelerometer, no LIDAR, no AI spaghetti detection... it is overpriced.
You only need that if your printer doesn't print well 😅
No
It's too late
While they were losing time with the XL they should've teamed with peopoly and fully developed the magneto X
Now they just look like they are copy cats...
I feel like this may be IT for Prusa
It's sad.... I love love love them
I've got 2 minis, Mk3s+ and a bear mk3.5s.... If it weren't for Prusa I'd never been able to build my Vorons
lol what
ANOTHER BIG FAILURE FOR PRUSA WAY OVER PRICED SMH