Blind shaker VS WDT - was Lance Hedrick wrong?

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 51

  • @markpalmos
    @markpalmos 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    12:20 - not sure that this thumping doesn't a/ collect fines in one area b/ create clumps. - may depend on a bunch of variables, but to me, minimising thumping would be better, keep the grinds more fluffy

  • @dpm3740
    @dpm3740 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Thanks for the video. One thing I did notice is that you, contrary to Lance and Weber Labs, emptied the shaker right on top of the portal-filter funnel. You need to have it higher above so that the grounds properly distribute on their way out of the shaker. I found a marked improvement in flavor (my opinion) when I did raise it higher over the part-filter.

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hi, I have tried this couple of times and did not get any better results, but could be I need to do some more testing :)

  • @JonFairhurst
    @JonFairhurst 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I don’t have a blind shaker, but I use a small bowl that lets me get a similar result. The big difference in technique is that you were shaking hand and tapped the shaker. My approach is to fluff the coffee and to get the fines and chunks all mixed up. Hard shaking and tapping can create clumps.
    My technique is consistency better than deep WDT with my setup and preferences. Deep WDT can allow fines to migrate to the bottom., so I now avoid it.
    Anyway, give the blind shaker another chance, but this time, try to lift and fluff the coffee. Be gentle to avoid any compaction and clumping.
    But maybe the single basket makes a difference. I never pull singles.

  • @michelschwank
    @michelschwank 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Hi! Amazing Video! 13g beans in and 19g espresso out does not sound like the traditional recipe, can you tell me something about that?

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you. This is not a traditional basket but a single IMS basket. 13 to 19 sounds like a very low ratio. Almost a Ristreto but it isn’t. Due to the distinct stepped shape of this basket I get very good and balanced shots

  • @remnant24
    @remnant24 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    What was there for Lance to be "wrong" about? He didn't make any claims, he just drew conclusions based on statistical data from large batches of tests and measurements, which you by the way didn't do-a sample size of 1 has no statistical validity.

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      From Lances video it sounds the blind shaker technic is superior.
      From my tests this is not necessarily true.
      I agree. This is not clear from my video, but I made 50 shots (25 with each technic) and the results were pretty consistent.

    • @error.418
      @error.418 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      But just having a different opinion isn't as good of a clickbait title :(

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@error.418 I think as long I demonstrate cases in which Lance’s claim isn’t true, this is not a clickbait.
      This was just one test among of 50 which gave me pretty consistent results

    • @ruperthart5190
      @ruperthart5190 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I think you should have shown the results of the 50 tests, including confidence intervals, which is much more relevant than a single cherry picked case

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ruperthart5190 Yes I completely agree. My mistake 🫤

  • @darylfortney8081
    @darylfortney8081 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Totally agree there is no statistical improvement one way over the other no matter how many shots you test. Since WDT is easier workflow that's my preference. Personally I pull the espresso in with syringe filter attached and then remove it to drip the sample to the refractometer but don't think it really makes a difference.

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Could be we have different filters. I can't pull the shot with the filter on.

  • @open_source
    @open_source 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Lance's job is to be a youtuber, regular espresso users is another chapter in another book!

  • @CH-yp5by
    @CH-yp5by 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So the main issue is that every You Tuber has made the same assumption that the coffee will be better if it has a higher TDS which is not correct. Simply the main difference between the two techniques is the taste which comes about from the freshly ground coffee being given the chance to oxidise more from the blind shaking technique as it is getting exposed to more air. Its similar to how people use air raters to pour red wine through so that its ready to drink sooner.

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I agree 100% with the claim that more TDS does not mean better taste. Many times or even most of times regarding very high quality specialty coffee its the other way around.
      I am familiar with the concept of oxidation. Not sure if this is the issue. Lances claim is it gets "densified" due to the shaking of different particle sizes.
      As per my many testing there was no improvement in coffee taste or extraction with the shaker. This is a very bad video BTW. I did not explain anything here 🤦‍♂

  • @alexjj231
    @alexjj231 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    In my opinion, you added a huge unknown. The single basket can't be compared to the double basket...

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Could be you are correct, though I think as long as I keep all tests the same it should be ok. Anyway I am going to add some more test and hopefully a video with different basket and different niddles on my WDT

    • @bluemystic7501
      @bluemystic7501 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@weiszCoffee I think part of the 'benefit' to the blind shaker is that it distributes the coffee better in a double shot basket - among other things. You used a single shot basket, so this isn't really the same test. That said, I tried them side by side and a shaker made no difference. Slow feeding on the other hand, that's a bit of a game changer, but that idea has been out for years.

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@bluemystic7501 Well I absolutely agree. The slow feeding was a game changer :).
      According to Lance's test, the Blind shaker technic should be a better choice no matter the basket so even if you'r right, this means Lance's test is not that accurate.
      I don't see why the Blind shaker technic should work better on a double baskets and not on a single. Actually I think the bias is related to the needles of the WDT, but this is one of the things I am going to check next.

  • @hailam8992
    @hailam8992 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I can see one thing Lance did that you didn't do was that he re-distributed the puck right after finishing the blindshaker, with a traditional distribution technique (called the tap tap/hand tap technique, or whatever I don't know the name), which you only WDT on the top. And your "blindshaker" shot had signs of channelling, which is explained through: the BlindS puck had poor distribution, you WDT on the surface, faster shot with same grind size (which is also an indicator for channelling, since water flew faster with channelling shot), sharper acidity which perceptively led to less sweet, and more aromatic shot (caused by the dilution, from channelling, when diluting liquid, you usually receive more fragrant and more distinguishable result, try diluting any liquors or drinks and see if you can easily pick it apart)
    I'm not saying that you might be wrong, you're doing good work here and may you keep going, which re-examines the given theory and shares it with others. Some people just blindly believe in things without even confirming it to themselves. I'm just saying that you had different actions and flows from Lance's that led to different results, which Lance validated. Love what you do, keep it up!

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you so much for the kind words. Appreciate a lot 🙏
      If I recall correctly Lance said that the best thing is to not do anything besides the shake. He even suggested that any distribution can harm the process.
      My next tests (and hopefully next video) will be to find the cause for the bias. So could be I will find you are correct.

  • @myname-mz3lo
    @myname-mz3lo 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    the main benefit of blind shakers is not the distribution . it is the compacting ? causing the fines to get stuck to the grounds . making it less prone to fines migration . so you can do blind shaker and also do wdt if you want the best of both . but to get compacting you need to chake the blind shaker hard . and not just move the grounds around .

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I tried to replicate Lance’s test. I shaked the same he shaked and didn’t use shaker with WDT as Lance recommended.
      You are suggesting a new test which requires hard shaking and also WDT.
      I think the WDT makes the shaker redundant but this is out of the scope of my test

  • @bauhausoffice
    @bauhausoffice 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Totally bogus. Lance is never wrong because he doesn’t make definitive claims. He is constantly experimenting. Well, it’s evident Lance is the man when his name is used as clickbait. Also, holes in this experiment.

  • @MrBWS77
    @MrBWS77 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Of course you prefer the "Weisz" Distribution Technique, David ;-)

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Ha ha you caught me there 😄

  • @darylfortney8081
    @darylfortney8081 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    time for a smaller scale eh

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Actually I like this scale very much.
      It is accurate, fast, very cheap and I can use it with two large cups or place my portafilter on it :)

    • @darylfortney8081
      @darylfortney8081 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@weiszCoffee a smaller scale for the drip tray I mean

  • @JimboJones99
    @JimboJones99 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    God bless you kind sir 🙏☕️
    God bless President Trump 🙏😭

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@JimboJones99 Thank you sir.
      And thanks to Trump 😅

  • @allen.t
    @allen.t 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    You’re using a single basket though…

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes, this is a single basket. Don't think this should affect but my text tests will be to find the reason for the bias between Lance tests and mine.
      I will check different baskets among other things.

  • @myname-mz3lo
    @myname-mz3lo 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    yoir grinder probably still has grinds left from previous grind . thats how little tests you did .

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      This grinder has retention pretty close to zero. I made 50 (25 each method) tests and this video is just one of them

  • @gigi9467
    @gigi9467 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Bro get some acai scales man

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hi, what for? A 200$ Acaia doesn't do nothing better than a 20$ one. I have a timer on the machine and no need for a Bluetooth connectivity

    • @gigi9467
      @gigi9467 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@weiszCoffee the car is definitely better than a $20 scale. I’ve had them before besides the fact that they look better it looks weird that you have I don’t know probably 10,000 worth of equipment and a $20 scale on there. You probably shouldn’t skimp on That just my opinion I guess.

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@gigi9467 It is better in what way?
      Is it more accurate? No
      Is it faster? Also no.
      It has a timer and a Bluetooth connectivity which I don't need :)
      It looks much better yes, but is this worth 10 times the price?
      Yes I have more than 10K on my table but every each of equipment I bought I purchased for a very specific reason. Not just for the looks or hype. I new exactly what the specific equipment will add to my coffee routine.

    • @weiszCoffee
      @weiszCoffee  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@gigi9467 By the way. I recently started to use another scale which looks much better and also costs around 20$. The Fuego coffee scale

    • @gigi9467
      @gigi9467 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@weiszCoffee you do you buddy. I rather the $200 scale than the 5k grinder..