Another great video! I agree with your sentiment regarding Alatreon, keeping the player's agency and allowing them to tackle challenges their own way is one of the main reasons I am addicted to the series lol. I hope with Wilds we will have more encounters that encourage you to strategize your approach towards things! Also, thanks for the credit and shoutout! 💙
Some don't even use that much and just go full ham on damage, using just their own skill and weapon's functions to overcome the challenge. That would be me- I played all of Master Rank from the first monster all the way to Shara with the High Rank Dragoon armor because nothing had as much damage output until relatively late in the game. It worked great.
and how does that effect the comitment of your attacks lol you still get punished for doing the wrong moves no matter if you are doped on dash juine or not lol!
@@J.aime_le_pain181 Yeah it was bad. But with total wind negation he suddenly became a joke. Unless you love to play Bow which I did back in the days :l
I just think it sucks that the best elemental set for ala, full safi with kulve weapon, requires two exclusively timed quests and that kulve has no guarantee to drop the weapon you need so the rng is just unreasonable. If you use that set you kinda feel like the difficulty of alatreon goes to the same level as the rest of the game before it. It's also not really clear that any other elemental set super sucks in comparison unless you're in the know that these things are in the game and the full ramifications of stacking their buffs
That’s the damage optimization goblin in your head talking, that’s like a speed run build, I don’t think that people who are struggling in a fight want the chip damage that comes with the safi set. There are plenty of great elemental builds at that point in the game, and they are more then enough to beat him….
@@iceran9822 the health augment completely negates the drawback basically even on dualblades. its also fairly safe because its super easy to slot in blight res maxed out which makes the fight a lot more manageable. The difference in damage with still having some wiggle room for utility is not comparable to any other build you can get at this point. even in multiplayer i can basically solo the elemental check without having to be that locked in, i think its pretty clear they intended for you to at least have full safi and a health augment. I feel more or less confident that the health augment was intended also because Fatalis' final phase is significantly more evil without the health augment because of the constant chip damage from the floor fire, and often he spreads it so much you cant reasonably just drag him out of it everytime without running low on time eventually. Most people who struggle on ala aren't really struggling much against his moves cause hes well telegraphed and easy to dodge its really just that without having a set like safi kulve you have to be significantly more aggressive and on his ass constantly to meet the check so they end up playing way more sloppy
i actually jsut used pre safi LS meta set with kulve ice duals on ala - they drop reasonably often ('ice that is - never seen one kjarr fire dual in 200+ runs if not more .. cant recall i did run that bish like 5 hours almost every day it was aktive last year
I think newer hunters who are all about META builds(element,raw,crit-up) don’t realize how much some comfort skills add to overall hunt DPS for casual players. It’s true the DPS potential has a higher ceiling for META builds ON PAPER. But to aspect everyone can play as perfect as speed runners is false. Some comfort skills add much more DPS for casual hunters overall.
Something I'd repeat so many times in the MHW days when people in my guild were asking for advice on their builds was "DPS is more than just the numbers. Whatever helps you attack safely and more often is something that increases your DPS."
Love your idea for Alatreon new phase in place of ES. It makes the fight doable even after 2 horn breaks ( cuz even with reaching dps check, and horn being easily breakable. That thing still has 50k HP ). That phase would be fun as hell, and an absolute HEAVEN for lance mains like myself. Love yo vid, man.
Wait that's a great idea. I think it's dumb that Escaton Judgement CAN still kill you if you break the element. Putting in this phase is sounds way more flexible while being harder.
you need to smack him out of his elemental state and break a horn, you CAN survive just knocking him out of his state with no horn break, but you would either need to do two elemental state breaks, or take a health booster and some well timed heals.
This concept was already what alatreon is in the previous games In portable 3 he will charge his head first before going to flight mode and you need to keep hitting his head or else you will deal with a lot more annoying alatreon with more potent moveset I guess bringing this concept phase back would be better, but I like it better if it will be just a leveled up dragon mode where he can use all the powered up elements and maybe combo them up like a true avatar dragon
that would make the fight soooooo gosh darn more enjoyable .....especially on solo - otherwise i can recommend to get at least he hp bar mod to see the horns hp - it also takes away alot of stress.
Awesome video and nice job on the cuts. :3 I love your 'Primordial Malzeno' style solution to the Alatreon dilemma. Alatreon was my biggest struggle and wall in World/Iceborne. With my ADHD, it took me literal years to reach the point that I finally accepted and understood it would take me weeks of planning, preparation, augmenting, farming Safi/Kulve and testing out different builds as well as weeks of practice with over 50 attempts before I could finally solo that assignment, and I committed myself to returning to World to finish it. I had mostly used Charge Blade in World/Iceborne, but after trying Insect Glaive, Bows, CBs, and various others, I finally ended up having to use the Switch Axe as well. (which I mained in Tri/3U/Rise) It forced me to make a massive shift from my usual playstyle due to the mechanics and I really had to think deeply about my strategy while at the same time having to rely on muscle memory to dodge his skills from practicing so much. It certainly made me a better hunter in the end.. but the amount of sacrifice was in some ways so high for me individually that it really soured my personal experience of Iceborne overall. Again, I love your ideas on how to solve the issue, and I'm hoping that the dev teams took the feedback they got from Alatreon and used it in how they designed Primordial in Sunbreak and also going forward into Wilds.
honestly, at first i was a bit sceptical about what that vid was going to be (basically the typical "escaton bad, remove dps check") but i wish capcom thought about your solution, i think it's great and could've also been a fun challenge (maybe we could've even got mods that would keep him in this phase throughout the entire fight like a devilgen nergi), nice vid man
@@JeanneFeisont i mean it's not a bad mechanic as a whole, especially since doing pre-escaton isn't that hard and the threashold isn't that high, but i'd rather have it as a super enrage phase rather than a one shot mechanic that's for sure. Though remember that alatreon and fatalis are supposed to be super-bosses, due to both of them being black dragons, so they are supposed to have something that dictates how much damage you're doing, i could say the same thing for blue flamme fatalis, except here the idea of a super high damage was taken, you don't break the head you gotta deal with full power fatalis and get one shotted on mostly anything, it's still the same mechanic, just on raw damage as a part break
I really liked the alatreon fight outside of that elemental dps check, the fight just felt incredibly well but meeting the elemental quota was kinda hard for me since I pmuch only use hammer and was used to going for raw dmg builds. Regarding preparation, I feel like there's a lot less on world compared to older games and I worry it'll keep going away.
Seems a bit contradicting, you fear preparation might have less emphasis, but at The same time you dont like a mechanic that actively brought some of that into world. Adaptability has always been a thing in MH. Im no saying its your case, but if "you" get mad cause The game asks something a bit more specific from The player than what they have used for all of their playthrough, well, thats on The player for not wanting to get out of their Comfort zone in a game that rewards experimentation, thats why weapon and element matchups are and always have been the core of the game. Im sorry if you cant raw bonk everything in The game, but imo Capcom shouldnt accomodate single weapon playthroughs in how they design fights.
@@samuraibeluga3749 Cause elemental damage is completely irrelevant to hammer aside from that fight, it was something I got accustomed to ignore almost completely. I didn't have any issue with the fight, I was doing good enough to shatter its horns, but I would get wiped regardless of how good I did because I wasn't meeting that particular requirement. By skill alone I was doing alright yet the game insisted in punishing me for not taking advantage of a mechanic it had previously taught me was useless for my playstyle. The game during +200h never once punished me for only using hammer, neither for prioritizing raw damage over elemental damage. In the end I still managed to clear it using hammer but to me it feels like that proves my point, I was doing well with my hammer, I just didn't pay attention to the specific stats the game cared about even tho those stats are useless for my weapon. Preparation is cool, I'm all in for bringing flash bangs and whatever you want for any given monster, adapting your build and playstyle to the monster you are fighting and so on. However all Alatreon did was ask me if I had an elemental damage build. Look at Safi for example, bringing life dust to heal pinned teammates, flashbangs to both drain it and prevent it from using the star on the last floor, etc.
@@samuraibeluga3749 Taking dung pods to drive away invaders, flash bangs to make them fall from the sky, antidotes for poisonous monsters, adapting your build and playstyle to a monster, all of that's cool. For me all Alatreon did was check if I was using an elemental damage build, which I wasn't cause my +300h hours of experience with the game taught me that elemental damage on hammers was pointless, with my original build for that fight I somewhat consistently managed to shatter its horns b4 the dps check, that I still failed it is kinda shitty cause my build wasn't some random shit put together, my only mistake was not having high elemental stats. I eventually cleared Alatreon still using hammer by just maxing my elemental damage.
@@UmbrumE40 ok and was it such a crazy sacrifice to make you stray a bit off the standart build type you used up to that point? like i dont get how or why thats a bad thing. again the choice to only use one weapon type is yours alone. like i said elemental and weapon matchups have always been a thing, some monsters will inherently shine with some weapon types than others, but if you want to go at it all with just hammer and basic dmg boosting build thats your perrogative, but dont be mad as soon as the game actually makes incentivizes you to adapt to a particular challenge, cause thats kinda the point. this is not elden ring where you are inehrently attached to one specific build for most if not all of the game cause you are incentivized to specialize by the nature of point distribution. in mh all it takes is perhaps a little bit more farming (the whole point of mh as a whole) and congrats you have a decent enough set to jump at him. i come from a time where end game in mh was make all kinds of sets for all kinds of purposes and weapon types, that was the fun, "oh gonna fight a raja, let me grab my gs set, oh gonna fight a garuga, oh let me grab my hammer set, oh gonna fight a blangonga, let me grab my element sns set etc" i understand being more of a casual player, and perhaps not feeling like engagin the game in that way, i wont criticize you, but the problem is not on the game then, its on the limitations you inherently impose yourself, whether consciously or unconsciously.
Another problem with Alatreon is (thats just my guess) that its elemental DPS check mechanic exists solely just because of the insane powercreep Iceborne had. This powercreep at that time peaked with Raging Brachy Armor and Weapons. Like dont even get me started how bad the powercreep was. Just as an example: as Iceborne came out, the Acidic Glavenus GS was considered "too op" by many. Now compare it to any other DLC GS. So to stop players from using the completely op powercreep sets, they introduced a mechanic that forced players to use Elemental weapons. Now there are multiple problems: First of all the best Elemental Armorsets at that time were Safi and Silverlos Armor. Safi is high risk high reward. But many didn't want to use it for such a dangerous monster. Silverlos armor is just horrible. Basicly no room for customisation. To be fair, they also added MR Kulve Taroth before it, including the weapons with crit element, which is a bit weaker than the crit element of Silverlos armor. But to get those weapons you have to do the extremely horrible RNG raid with Kulve. So yeah... definitely not great. In regards of weapons, you could atleast use some like the Safi ones. Again a raid boss, but atleast better. So now they leave you little room with customisation, atleast you will be able to play your favorite weapon type, right? No. Even tho they changed the elemental multipliers of each weapon type specifically for this fight, buffing some and nerfing some, its still not enough. Despite big buffs, GS still makes barely any elemental damage compared to DBs or Chargeblade. So... thats great... They wanted players to stop using the new op powercreep meta, a problem the developers themselves created! And to achieve this, they forced players to play another very specific and limiting meta... Great. Also everyone just abandoned that meta after Alatreon 😂 So it didn’t even help. I think an easy fix would have been that instead of that bs DPS check that can wipe an entire team, Alatreon just becomes more unstable and stronger if you didn’t hit the DPS check. Similar to Fatalis, but in a way were its still fair. Even tho Fatalis one hits you with every fire move in its last phase, if you didn’t destroy a horn, you can still break it in this last phase. I would make it so, that when Alatreon becomes more unstable and stronger, because you missed the DPS check, you can still knock it out of that stronger form by dealing enough elemental damage or breaking a horn. This way the fight doesn't instantly punish an entire party at once. Btw i wrote this comment before watching your vid to the end, and your idea to fix it is quite literally almost the same 😂
that period in time was super awesome and I loved that they gave us the gear to take on the fight before introducing alatreon. it was a great time to be active in teh game.
My favorite memory of preparing for a hunt was against Hyper Jho in GU. I was being absolutely destroyed and if I didn’t triple cart I couldn’t beat it in time. My solution was to take my trusty Swaxe and add Evade Extender, Tremor Resistance and Mushroomancer. Whenever It would do the stomp move I’d Elemental Discharge. Something I could only pull off with Tremor Resistance. And infinite stamina from Mushroomancer as well as Evade Extender helped me get there in time. Beating it felt really good. The music choice at the end is a little cheeky this time. Yes, it is a black dragon( ironic since it’s all but black) but not the one you would expect. Quite the interesting choice.
Gotta love tremor resist, I remember that skill alone halved my clear time against hyper jho when I was farming it. Optimizations like that are so rewarding.
On a side note, can we just please recognize the sheer glory of Mushroomancer in old generations? You could bring 10 extra max potions. 10! And 10 more mega potions too! That literally over quintuples your healing loadout, in games without restocking!
This video made me go to Steam and install MHW again. I never managed to beat Alatreon on my own (had a friend help me) and never got around to doing Fatalis as I didn't feel like I earned it. I'll do another full playthrough with my beloved, the longsowrd, as I didn't fully click with Greatsword when I tried it a few months back (let's ignore the fact that I missed more TCSs in 5 hours than Helmbreakers in my 200 hr first playthrough)
The worst thing about the incredible game is that I can’t skip the story. 😂like my brother in Christ I’ve played so many of these games and all I know is monster crashing out go deal with them.
Could not possibly agree more! This is exactly what I've been saying from the moment the fight came out. The number of specific hoops you have to jump through to deal with that one single mechanic is ridiculous. You have to build element, you have to play aggressively, you have to hit the hitzones that actually take good elemental damage, you have to break the horns (which btw aren't the best place to deal elemental damage), and then even after having done ALL of that correctly (while fighting a fair, but still difficult boss) you still have to heal through an unavoidable attack that will kill you no matter what your defenses are. That's the most infuriating part of it for me though, that even after doing everything correctly, your reward is being hit with an attack completely unprecedented in the history of the series that you cannot avoid at all and will kill you. That should be the PUNISHMENT not the REWARD. Even BS like Lunastra's supernova can be avoided by chaining panic dives. Speaking of Lunastra, despite the amount of raw hatred much of the player base rightfully has for World's incarnation of this monster, it does still reward the player for preparation while giving leeway to find different solutions. Of course, you can build for fire/heat resistance or evasion, but also, the most valuable utility to have against Lunastra in my opinion is wind resistance. There are a lot of small winds that naturally occur during the fight that will inevitably combo into getting hit by otherwise avoidable fire attacks, but also, wind resistance makes it SO much easier to chain panic dives during the supernova. I definitely wouldn't say that the Lunastra fight executes this design philosophy well, but it still does it so much better than World's Alatreon fight, and I think that's a horrible shame, because like you said, I absolutely love everything about World's Alatreon EXCEPT for Escaton Judgement. It completely baffles me that the same people who complain about Lunastra will sing the praises of the Alatreon fight including Escaton Judgement. I simply do not understand.
I'd say they're both on the same level of required preparation. Just like Lunastra, Alatreon does offer some leeway for different strategies - those hoops are not THAT specific. Yes, you have to play aggressively, but that's not an exclusivity. Behemoth and Kulve also have time limits to their fights. You need to hit the best elemental hitzones, but that's not an issue at all, since those are the spots that you normally hit, the legs. Front legs are better, but hind legs will do just fine, as long as they're tenderized. If you have a problem breaking the horns, then you can just NOT go for them and use a dragon weapon instead. In the end, the damage threshold is not that high. Then we get to Escaton... the only punishment is failing to get to the first threshold. After that, it's all just a matter of protecting yourself, just like hiding from an Ecliptic Meteor. If you toppled it once, a single jerky will do if you have 200hp. If you can topple it twice, it won't kill you regardless.
Honestly that's a pretty interesting solution to the Escaton Judgement. It's also in-line woth Fatalis head break mechanic as well, where blue flame could one shot you but you still have a chance to win if you can dodge everything.
I would love your new change. Not because I have a problem with judgment, but because brute forcing a geeked out Alatreon like a coked out caveman sounds very fun.
A couple discussions off this. First, preparation being forgotten. Certain gameplay styles and mindsets can be promoted or hindered through game design, but ultimately the player is going to do what they want to do most, with an increasing cultural expectation that games will support them to victory regardless of what that way is. MonHun grew with the dominant community mindset being that a clear is a clear, so prep as much as you can to clear as often as you can. The meta mindset was still around, especially in whatever the charm farm mission was, but it had minimal impact on community experience, and therefor design decisions. World included so many tiny choices and mechanics for the slow and preparing player, and yet the community it found was addicted to high damage numbers and low hunt times, out-skilling any and all attempts to force "inferior dps" into their builds. It's an equally valid way to approach the game, has always been around, and World's design supports it well, but the huge shift in the "common" approach had ripples on the community and the devs designing new content. Alatreon was the apex of this struggle. The devs wanted to encourage non-meta thinking, but the community resisted so much it pushed them to Escaton. Even through Escaton, many people still resist the entire notion of an elemental check to this day. And despite all this, the people who were trying to prep for Ala as intended found themselves extremely limited, caught up in this design war not meant for them. There is a second path through Ala that feels intended: dragon solo or thunder/water group and not requiring the horn breaks. This is how my group cleared Ala when it first came out, however that created a different design problem. We kept failing element checks on really good runs. The reason? The head takes less element damage than the legs, so "good runs" with everyone crowding the head during downs actually resulted in barely missing the checks. The moment we looked up this hitzone knowledge we started winning consistently, but being the first and only hitzone we ever researched made it a somewhat bitter victory. So even doing the fight as prep-focused as possible, with everyone all having a unique build for a specific role in a coordinated team of 4, the experience the devs so badly wanted, it still fell short by being too strict and unclear. The simple knowledge of how close to passing we were would have meant a lot for groups like mine. The extremely high quality of Ala's back-and-forth pacing and hitboxes finally made me start to hate the clutch claw. Not tenderizing, not wallbangs in an arena with dubious walls, but the actual act of attaching to the monster. So many valuable turns have been wasted or turned to carts because of attaching to the wrong part and having no control where you end up after getting off. Any earlier fight you have enough options and low enough punishments that I didn't mind the jank, but it's my one frustration with the solo Ala experience.
I think the problem with Alatreon isn't that it forces you into a playstyle. I think it's the fact that there's very few monsters that you have to prepare for before that point. There should be a clearer build up for using different playstyles against different monsters. Why should one play style work against everything? Yeah sure it's player choice but should the player always have that choice? Sometimes you are facing an elder dragon of legends with full control of the elements. I don't think you should be fighting on your terms at that point, they are far too powerful for that. Adapt and overcome, such is the nature of monster hunter.
in the game that this was the first time ever you could just change your weapon mid hunt, they chose to lock you out of it. a monster who has master over elements, but if you're seeing it change elements, you already lost... brilliant design
My biggest problem with Alatreon is not even the preparation, it's how gimmicky he is. Getting different weapons of different elemental types and choosing the right one is pretty neat, or it would be if the fight itself didn't fucking suck. The individual moves are very cool and it's fun to fight him, but the constant elemental staggers, breaking the horns, the goddamn clutch claw... it's like the game is CONSTANTLY trying to make you do everything other than just duel the monster. It feels like an MMO fight, not a Monster Hunter fight. It's more gimmicky than the purposefully gimmicky Behemoth fight. I much prefer Primordial Malzeno's or even Fatalis' (though *also* fuck that guy) straightforward "it's just hard" approach.
I mean there’s a trade off between “choosing this weapon/playstyle is suboptimal and will lead to long clear times” and “if you attempt this you are 99% sure you fail.”
4:10 alright hear me out: LANCE. Every one of those attacks is an opening for a quick jab, rotate, and the next one is too. All you have to look out for is the orbs of lightning, and that you can just backstep away from.
Great video man, keepp up with the good work 🙏🙏 One thing i find funny, is how in world i thought Furious Rajang was the almost impossible to take care of and after no joke, 1 week of trying to kill it it became my 3nd favorite monster. And now playing Sunbreak for the first time, fighting was almost relaxing, i never became surprise with anything he did and never thought of a real danger, while fighting some others monsters i almost lost my shit 😭. And funny how i smash my head against all monster and that fact made to me Alatreon the 2nd best fight in the entire game, i just needed to make a build with elemental damage and smash my head against him until i got good enought to pass the damage check and that felt amazing
I had the same experience with normal rajang way back in Freedom Unite. He's still my favorite monster. He's fast but he's very predictable, and the flow of weaving around and through his attacks without getting touched is so satisfying. A friend of mine is the same but with Deviljho. I still find him to be tough be she makes him look so easy, lol.
Back in the ps2 day i used to craft whole new sets of gear and wrapons just to beat a new monster. Today i can go start to g rank just upgrading princess rapier on world.
Everything is toned down with each new installment. Even with the new Wilds coming out, it seems another core aspect of Tracking is being lessened albeit forgotten.
As someone who solo Alatreon with every melee weapon, yess alatreon design is so wonderful. The hitbox is so precise and it's attack animation also have openings/chance "makes you feels like fighting a turn based game", i couldn't agree more when you said that. You need to be patiently aggressive to hunt this bad boy ❤
However, due to the way his elemental dps sprint mechanic was designed, certain weapons, like gunlance, basically had to strip their entire identity just to be able to clear it comfortably (Dropping shelling entirely, in favor of slap lance). Other weapons also didn't get enough compensatory elemental modifiers to make it worth it, and eventually devolved into the brute force fortify counter meta, which was equally as annoying. And god forbid you were in rando teams or sos, and you were basically guaranteed to fail.
@emosgowoof the only weapon that's pain in the ass to clear properly with elemental is HBG for me, not the brute force raw+fortify but proper elemental run. Gunlance is all right, you can still shell here and there, just mixed in slap gunlance/burst + poke shell (wide shell playstyle), slip in wyrmstake cannon when it floating and use breath attack to the ground.
I think you the main point WHY people complain about Alatreon, is not the preperation, where defense people need to play aggressive, it's that the game didn't telegraph to the player how to defeat it in the first place. If you lose against a monster, that's normally on you, but in Alas case it was out of your hand. There was no way to prepare for Ala, and Ala is literally the only quest where you can't use farcaster. If you use the wrong element against it, NPCs will tell you your element is wrong, but if e.g. you use thunder, which is not that uncommend, considering that raging rajang had some of the best weapons in the game at the time, they would not comment on it, because thunder is "effective", only a lil bit, but not enough not to stand a chance against Ala. Maybe, you are very luckly, and all your team has strong dragon weapons, BUT most likely, you won't have this with you on your first try, as long as you did not get spoiled from other players about how to hunt Ala. Ala itself was an awesome fight, I remember I had a really good time, but then boom out of the sudden I carted, and so did my team. Another try, same result. There was no way of telling what we did wrong. No NPC told you about that you need these specific elements before you entered the hunt. If the game can't tell you in any sort of way, be it in text or gameplay form, that you do of what you have to do, then it fails. Trial and error is normal, but if trial and error includes a game over, then the game design is flawed. You didn't lose against Alatreon because you were a bad hunter, you lost because the game was not able to communicate to you how to defeat it. If you face a new monster and get your a$$ kicked, thats awesome on paper, because it normally means you can overcome it within the hunt if you are a good hunter. You adept to the monster, and then slay it. But adepting within Alatreons hunt is impossible. Like I said, you cannot change weapons, even if you notice what is going on. The Ala hunt is LITERALLY the only hunt where the camp mechanic would have been nessesary, but they choose to make farcaster not work, only in this one hunt. If you know what to do, Ala is an awesome and fun hunt, if you know how to hunt it down before. But your first try, will be a a downer, because you don't feel like you lost because you suck, you feel like you got betrayed by the game designer. It's like you walk through a door and behind is a guy with a gun pointing at your head, and you are dead. Sure, next time you will know, try to avoid that guy, but you can't expect players to know an unknown unknown. There are games, where this works, like with time mechanics, where you turn back time, e.g. the latest Fire Emblem games. But I dont think MH is simliar to these type of games.
You were wrong in the first few lines of text. The monster information has his abilities in there. The handler and the captain tell you in the fight to suppress the element, and to break the horns. It is not a surprise, and they did prepare you for it.
@@DoNotFearTheReapa You literally just "the handler tells you IN the quest". When they tell you in the Quest, it's allready to late, you can't change the element. Also, like I said, they only tell you, if you use the wrong element. E.g. you use a Explosion weapon, then they say "hey, your weapon sux against ala", but if you use e.g. thunder, they don't give a crap, because thunder is "effective".
The thing is, I almost completely agree with you. this is my number 1 favorite monster period. of course eschaton judgment is a problem here but that’s because there are so many of them. Instead of replacing the eschaton judgment for a more aggressive Alatreon mode altogether, we get the aggressive mode but eschaton judgment happens only once when it’s on its last legs. That would make this fight perfection.
@@agssilv5919 just because it’s fine tuned doesn’t mean it’s perfect. Now I know for a fact you’re just trying to pick a fight. Don’t you have better things to do than harass others with no real claim. BTW work on your grammar.
I really hate how much the "If you used X, you didn't beat the game" mentality still has a hold on me to this day. Even if I play by my own, even if I talk to no one about how I played it, I still feel it in the back of my brain every time I pick that one weapon up on Souls games, or slot that one skill on Monster Hunter.
I had discussion with a redditor about using items that the game provides, it was an elder ring post and I remember I said players are basically finding ways to handicap themselves by putting conditions to a fight, and I ended up saying that if it's in the game it's legal and you should take your victory, and that redditor basically said that using mimic tear was cheating or something like that, as long a is not a mod is legal and using x items should not represent a problem, he ended up being downvoted
If someone ever makes fun of you doing your own way like something they consider "cheating" even tho the mechanic / item is available in the game how it intended. Just say "sure man, u are just better. Good for you". We can enjoy games however we like, they can't control you.
@@AndresRodriguez-cc5ky i mean there is no actual cheating you are just cheating yourselve out of the experience in elden ring's case It was super sad seeing people just jumping in couse It was "the hot thing" at the time and looking for the "ultimate most meta weapons easiest build to defeat x" just trynna finish the game caring mostly about hanging some sort of medal around their neck saying i beat the souls game and many of those people didnt really enjoy the game and what they did with a sentiment of "that was It?" not getting the experience and what people actually enjoy in those games
Nice video, I just wanted to add that Fatalis doesn’t just phase into high damage only, phase 3 brings three new attacks, much faster attacks, and of ofcourse, the blue flame INSANE damage as a punish for you for not breaking its horn(s) in time. What I do like about Fatalis is you still can beat it without breaking its horns if you are precise and careful enough, just like a souls boss if I may say.
As a hammer main, Alatreon was a special kind of challenge, since when he dropped there were no good ice element hammers (and even then, hammer doesn't do the best elemental damage) so I had to adapt. I tried using charge blade but I just couldn't figure out the controls, so I switched to the "best weapon in the game". I started learning longsword and it sent me on a journey. I crafted two low rank longswords (one fire and one ice) and would hunt my way through their upgrade tree, from low rank to G rank and learning the weapon with each progressive hunt, until I had them maxed out and could finally face Alatreon. It was still not an easy fight, but finally beating Alatreon was one of my all time favorite Monster Hunter experiences, since I coulnd't beat him in Monster Hunter Tri when I was a kid, and going through this journey to not only get weapons better suited for the fight, but learning the mechanics as well was amazing.
Might be a bit late to mention but the elemental capabilities VS alatreon are either buffed or nerfed depending on the weapons capacity to deal elemental thats why there IS a build in which the gs can meet the requieres elemental dmg in 2 tcs
It reminds me of what the id software devs said when asked about player freedom and the choices they made when balancing Doom eternal compared to Doom 2016. In comparison to doom 2016 eternal doesnt let hold as much ammo for any weapon as 2016 this was done so that player wouldnt just use their fav weapon and would use the rest of them even using quick switching a technique to maximize DPS thx to the alternate use of múltiple weapons to sidestep the cooldown of special shots and general rpm but they didnt just give u less ammo they gave u a way to get ammo back but on a cooldown now your chainsaw would regenerate up to one charge. They also made the Demons and the doom slayer quicker and more agile this meant that now playing a more hyoer aggresive always on the move style was necessary. They basically called It the doom dance a playstyle in which u would dump resources onto the Demons the health , armor u would lose , the ammo to kill them and other special things and u would get them back by killing them using different tools , exucutions would give u health , killing enemies burning from your flamethrower would give u armor and killing with the chainsaw would give u ammo. When asked about player Who may not want that kind of playstyle id software basically said players may know what they want but what they want may not lead to the best possible experience or fun Doom eternal is still regarded as the best pve , fps arena shooter and It became better than its predecessor by fine tuning the experience the developers wanted and believed in and the reducing player choices to drive them in the direction they wanted
Thank you for for putting into words all my issues with World Alatreon. It really grinds my gears that people just dismiss any criticism of how World ended, and claim that Alatreon and Fatalis are perfect fights, especially when I know of several friend groups, including my own, that completely fell apart because of how bad they were, and suddenly no one in said groups wanted to play the game anymore and communication fell off a cliff.
I fell like the greatest failing in iceborne is pacing. Fighting the strongest dragons in the series right after beating the story while fighting ruined after me 100 is kinda wild.
When it comes to Alatreon, in my personal opinion, having only one way to beat it, without spending hundreds of hours to prepare and use a different technique, fits the Description of a Black Dragon in the lore. He is a walking Katastrophe, something that stands way above every food chain, over nature itself,he is no mere Animal, it's a personified natural disaster that even Elder Dragons fear so having only "one weakness" to exploit to be able to kill him feels right for me. Ofc not everyone sees it that way or even cares about the lore at all, and that's fine, I just really enjoyed him, he is my favorite Black Dragon and this fight is a absolute Loveletter for me. I wasn't able to get his armor way back in Tri, because the servers shut down, and I was only able to kill him once before that, and waiting so long to finally Slay him feels so good.
Man your Alatreon suggestion sounds so much better than the real thing. Alatreon is who is next on my progression docket but I am dreading fighting him as a more passive/defensive player that lacks out lasting monsters than going all anime with flashy moves. Probably as it is my only hope is to go in alone and eat for Felyne Safeguard/Insurance knowing I'm going to eat a few Escaton Judgements. As long as I can beat it before the fourth one I theoretically should be fine.
this is exactly what I had to do with PrimZeno. Every single monster in Rise I just plowed through with Light Bowgun. but PrimZeno was just too fast and hit too hard for me to go in without any prep. I had to equip a bunch of evasion jewels and switch to a dragon resistance armor set. Gave myself dragonblight immunity so it didn't take out half my health with a single attack anymore, and used the Magnamalo themed Dango to give myself an anti-cart focus sash. (I also equipped the gem for that so I could tank 2 life threatening hits before getting carted, effectively giving me 9 lives for the duration of the hunt). It was still a slog, but I managed to beat the dang thing.
That first minute intro segment is single-handedly the reason I DEEPLY enjoy monster hunter. No other game does ANYTHING CLOSE to this in rewarding and satisfying ways.
Good discussion. Too many players go through this game without using 90% of the monster-specific prep the game offers, instead always using their one set they consider "minmaxed". Alatreon is one of the only monsters whose prep requirements are STRICTLY enforced. I would actually be glad if a hunt like this appeared earlier in the game to have a teaching effect on how to manage frustrating monster mechanics. If your proposed alatreon phase was extremely difficult, enough to make every player recognize it and have that teaching effect, I might endorse it. But as it currently stands, I'm actually happy with the current alatreon mechanics: MHW has always been a raw (non-elemental) damage game, so this makes alatreon a refreshing fight for a change. And if you really want to go raw against alatreon - I think you make it sound more difficult than it is. I'm primarily a solo player like yourself, and during my very first alatreon kill I used a raw damage gunlance, fortify, and safeguard as prep. All that being said, I also believe that the vaal hazak (even non-AT) miasma ruins the hunt: Without miasma resist, the mechanic is grueling as you said, while with miasma resist the monster becomes a boring pushover compared to other elders in that stage of the game. Which I found sad considering how much me, you, and others love hazak's design. I was even sadder when I learned that the iceborne hazak variant leans even more into the miasma mechanic.
My friend and I tried alatreon for the first time yesterday. About 20 attempts, didn't get through a single escaton. The movesets of the monster itself are alright, but the fight as a whole... It crams too many things into one fight, and even after you figure those out, the game doesn't tell you enough to actually beat the monster. I managed to kill furious Rajang and raging Brachy on the first try. They were hard fights, sure, but I was prepared for them in terms of movements and mechanics. I didn't have to make a special loadout for them, I just used my normal master rank loadout. But Alatreon? Grabbed our best ice weapons, died. Tried slamming him against a wall, he slid against it and turned around. Tried to hit him, he spends three minutes flying instead. Tried to hit him again, he spends three minutes running to the other side of the arena and then back instead. Ok, bad AI luck we thought, time to try again. Still, no dice. You don't even get a hunter's note entry on him until you kill him, so we have no idea what his hitzones or exact weaknesses are. We have to look up specific videos, wiki entries and guides. Apparently, his forelimbs are the best hitzones, and you are wasting your time hitting anything else. His horns take no damage until the dragon phase. You need Safi armor and Kjarr weapons, plus ice attack boost, and staying in front of him, rolling through attacks instead of running, to maybe, just maybe, weaken escaton one time to survive. Sure would've been nice to either A. Not have to spend the next 60 hours farming Safi and grinding lands for gear and augments, or B. have the game actually tell us some of these things, instead of "use elemental weapons". The fight sucks because you need a hyper specific build, unlike every other monster in the game that you can beat through methodical gameplay and use of specific items from your inventory. You need to manage the dragonblight. You need to hit only his arms. You need to break his horns only in dragon phase. You need to pray that he doesn't spasm and run or fly all around the map where you can't kill him... and do alll of that over and over again, because he has an insane amount of health compared to every other normal monster. It's just too many things to spring on people at once. Behemoth is a collab event quest and explicitly tells you what to do and that you need a team. Kulve is a siege with the same premise. Same for Safi. Then comes Alatreon, and here I come, bashing my head against him like a brick wall, thinking that he's just a normal monster boss like Nergigante, Xeno'Jiva or Velkhana, only to realise that I have to prepare for him more than for every single other monster in the game, combined. And the gear from him doesn't even look good or have good stats. He's just an annoying gate to Fatalis, for the sake of being annoying. Every other instakill move in the game I can get behind, but this? A 5 minute guaranteed cart due to a dps check unless you have a hyper specific loadout and use a hyper specific method to kill him? It just ain't fun
So glad I stumbled into this video, because it translated exactly how I felt with Alatreon. I love the boss design, I love the hitboxes, but I always liked to play more passively, and it was fine during the entire game, until the last two bosses where you don't have this option anymore. I feel like a lot of the decisions regarding the 3 big final challenges in Iceborne went on the route of "Difficulty goes up by making player freedom of playstyle go down", and it really hits hard when you are on the side that does not enjoy the super agressive playstyles. It sucks that the final fights felt like ticking checkboxes, and not that the victory came from extra personal preparation with a plan that fits one's preferred way to play.
That’s a very interesting perspective that you shared. I never had an issue with Alatreon nor Escaton but after watching the video and looking through the comments, I can understand where some of the complaints come from. I’ve been playing since Freedom 2, and play most weapon types to a decent enough level. When I first learned of what was required in the fight, I immediately wrote off weapons traditionally bad with element and focused my strategy around weapons like SNS, DBs and later on elemental CB. (I know elemental values are adjusted for that fight, this is just my initial thought process) Weapon matchup against the monster is the first thing I think about when doing a hunt, so maybe as someone that keeps their options open, I didn’t feel how Alatreon really funneled players to approach the fight in a singular way. My go-to for this fight remains SNS for solo and elemental CB for multi
This exactly. Escaton is literally why i stopped playing the game for a really long time and up to this day i have never beaten that Alatraeon and World/Iceborne is my least favorite game. I'm a veteran from 3U to current, and the removal of choice in how I prepared made me feel really alienated. I've always been an elemental user, so i thought I'd be fine, but the dps check, his powerful moves, smart as hell ai, constant carting, loss of resources, and then not guaranteeing his rare drop if i managed to beat him, killed all motivation
As a Gunlancer, I think Escaton Judgement is a really unfair mechanic because shell damage does not count as elemental damage (used to be fire damage in gen 2) hence it invalidates any gunlance playstyle that relies on shells which is, y'know, the one thing that gunlance does, thus forcing you into the SlapLance gameplay or just not use Gunlance for that specific fight
Excuse me while I write down your armor set up… Great vid, definitely learned a lot. I’ve been struggling against Alatreon and World’s raid bosses so I’m taking every bit of advice I can. My own build is what I call thr “tank hammer”. A looot of defensive skills, earplugs, along with little things to help me hit harder. Alatreon is…well it’s a dps check. I don’t like Safi, I hate the small timer and I know “ha-ha, git gud” no. I’m not going anywhere near safi. Instead I’m gonna try. Key word “TRY” to make a more offensive build. I have the elemental hammers, I just need to make the armor…and get lucky with decoration drops. This monster and the raid ones made me give up on world back when they first came out. But, it’s my new goal until Wilds releases. It’s probably never gonna happen for a casual player like me haha.
This is a great solution to the problem of Alatreon. The fight ouside of escaton is indeed quite well created. But i always say the fight is designed poorly BECAUSE of escaton. Hopefully they learned their lesson and wont make the same mistake in Wilds. Along with many other mistakes world had like RNG decorations and siege monsters with no realistic singeplayer difficulty..
My issue with escaton, is that for weapons like lance (what I main) are rewarded for playing very defensively aggressive the entire game up until you have to fight this monster with an attack that you cannot be defensive against. There is nothing that a lance can do to deal with it that other weapons not only can not only do, but do better than lance. I hope going forward they take things like this into account.
From the outside looking in, my gripe with Alatreon's elemental weakness is that while Alatreon can more or less freely change its element, _you cannot._ As a Blademaster, you are locked into the single element of your weapon. Even as a Gunner, you might not actually have access to more than one elemental ammunition. If you don't have a second hunter with an opposed element to fill in for one you're lacking (which _by definition_ occurs when hunting solo), then depending on the timing of Alatreon's specific phases (vs. the timing of Eschaton Judgement) you are going to have a bad time because you lack the intended ability to interact with Alatreon's mechanics.
The 90 seconds of a really aggresive dragon is basically Primordial Malzeno's last phase There's a turtling strat against Malzeno though, but as far as I know it's limited to insect glaive. Insect glaive's insect can really easily do the elemental dmg check, and the damage the insect does isn't affected by much, it's mostly just the buff you give it with slinger's ammo and you can evade almost everything while attacking with the insect, while also stacking every defensive skill you can in your set Don't wanna break horns? You can also use a dragon element insect. If you're playing solo it doesn't matter much anyway, before you cart 3 times you can easily kill it using fire/ice anyway
probably one of my favorite moments was when I was trying switch axe for the first time in iceborne, noticed I could get mounts pretty easily, realised how powerful the mount finisher was, and made a "flying switch axe" build complete with stuff like focus, power prolonger, glider mantle, airborne, and tool specialist. You only do two things for the entire fight: Jumping attacks(mostly assisted with glider mantle) and clutch claw ZSD. That's it. Took out raging brachy in like 15 minutes with an unoptimized version of the build.
This is an amazing video for the mindset of playing Monster Hunter. Well done. I'll be showing this to friends of who don't quite understand this way of thinking.
I think the problem with this fight is not the fight itself at all, i think its perfect, being able to quazi choose which element he starts in if u want to use fire or ice, technically being able to take dragon for both, eschaton judgment is both beautiful and quite easy to deal with with how much element damage his forearms take, and him having 2 dps checks in eschaton and the horn is very cool and unique. The issue of why people find it hard is that mh world specifically is balanced around raw dmg, and weather you go through the game solo and figure it all out yourself or rigorously scour youtube for help you will learn that compared to raw element sucks 9times out of 10 so getting all the way to end game with high raw and possible blast or paralysis you feel like you can do anything and the solution to any problem is just play better, block better, dodge better, do more dps, playing with element is just alot harder because it requires more to build into it like instead of just stcking attack and crit you also have to do element dmg skills, and unless you already have fatalis gear it gets harder build both and just running element does not give as much dmg numbers and attack so most people just ignore it, and then alatreon comes around forcing you to not only make a fresh build but also play it much riskier because you are either forced to run less survival skills or less dps skills with either runs the risk of dying to attacks or failing to timer/eschaton . The point im trying to make is in mhworld element feels weak even though it may not be , it FEELS weak thus the build in general feels worse and its really hard to learn new monsters or feel strong at all if your build is in your head as not great, thus i hope in wilds they do not get rid of this style of hunt and just balance raw and element better especially since with the swapping weapons mechanic would be the perfect time to release an alatreon style monster that tou cant stop from swapping elements so now you have to be ready for both…. Anyways neat video sorry for the small book
Here’s how I look at it. Proper preparations reward you by reducing the skill required to overcome a challenge. It is possible to avoid problems like wind and roars without having to prepare for them, with skill. Preperation is a supplement to skill, and that’s a good thing. It allows for a selective difficulty that you can tailor to both your skill, and the difficulty you want
Alatreon was so challenging when I first encountered it, I sent feedback to capcom. I wrote that Alatreon is too hard for LBG because it was not possible to carry enough elemental ammo to kill it. I would be forced to cart (because farcasters are blocked in this fight) just to restock in order to kill it. So I COULD beat it, it's just that I couldn't do it deathless. They replied back saying there would be no plans to adjust the fight. I later devised my own strategy: Bring a lbg that can shoot a greater variety of ammo. Lunastra's lbg, Soulfire Rasp Blaze, is the only lbg that can shoot fire and ice decently well. The plan was simple: shoot the opposite element. Then during dragon phase, shoot slicing ammo at the horns to conserve elemental ammo. If I am close to running out of elemental ammo, which will happen at least once, then don't break the horns and allow it to change elements. Then shoot my secondary element until it goes down. It worked well. Though it is a strategy that only the bowguns are capable of. Maybe something like this could happen for other weapons in Wilds.
Listening to this video I think it explains a lot of why I adore Primal Malzeno, as well as Sunbreak in general, over Alatreon and this game. Mal is hard, but doesn't actively punish you for not playing the game a certain way, so even someone like me who averages 20 min hunts solo can clear it and have fun doing it! Alatreon, as well as the whole game due to the Clutch Claw mechanics, kinda make you do things a certain way, which requires a LOT more prep time. Needing to prep isn't bad as shown in this vid obviously, but it sucks to go out of your way for a *very* long time to go for something you wouldn't have considered before. Now, being a super boss, there usually wouldn't be too much of an issue of going for specific intended strategies, were it not for the fact that this is Monster Hunter, and you're expected to do it multiple times over to get those sweet materials. Anything can be done once, but expecting that level of precise play over and over again can be really draining on someone.
Excellent video. I stand by the premise that Alatreon would be an absolutely fine boss for its position in the game if you just removed Escaton, but replacing Escaton with a phase is easily the best solution if the goal is to maintain that sort of punishing flow break.
I hate this fight SO much. His moves are easy to dodge and counter, but I have to change my playstyle and even weapon of choice the have any chance. It's not fun if I'm not playing the game the way I want. If Capcom wanted us to use those damn elemental sets they should have made them useful in the first place - and apparently it's the same for Wilds as well, so prepare yourselves for another horrible battle to fix a problem they possibly already created.
Honestly resurgence's crimson fatalis is the monster that finally made me work out how i want a set.. other than just heavy art for normal fatalis.. i was actually debating fireproof mantle
Honestly an immunity mantle, immunity cleanser, some immunizer, and popping an astera jerky works just as well. Pop an astera jerky for immediately saving your health; pop an immunizer before going in to have something that lasts; the immunity mantler and cleanser just make it to where you can ignore Vaal for the most part; but always keep a null berry to get rid of the affect when it procs. Just an alternative for those who don't have gems.
Old school MH preparation mostly worked because we didn't have the skill bloat we have today. Even at end game, you had to make some tough choices about sacrificing DPS for survivability. It was the perpetual debate about Comfy vs. Meta builds, where meta was really just showing off and comfy was about finishing the fight with no carts and a couple of additional minutes run time. But it was still an interesting choice. You can largely ignore it entirely in the most recent games and go full meta with no issues. Weird thing is that a lot of those skills are still in the game and we've even had a bunch more made even though the game has largely been moving away from that style of play. For instance, why is Wallrunner a thing in Rise? Monsters rarely move near walls so you don't get much if any utility in a fight. They've made it so that village farming is so lucrative that you almost never need to go on an expedition just to find materials. And fast travel is a thing once you unlock additional camps so it's always faster to chase a monster by warping than running. It's a skill that exists for some hypothetical game that has hypothetical challenges which aren't in the game we're playing. It's like the design team don't seem to recognize that they've been paring the game down to a "kill the monster as fast as possible" type of game which has little to no use for fluff skills. As to Alatreon, once you start utilizing the massive utility that is clutch claw into wall bang, the fights biggest problem is that it becomes so predictable that it stops feeling like a monster that makes unpredictable decisions and starts feeling like a clockwork diorama. It's interesting to see the cycle the first couple of times but after that it's boring and you never want to look at it again because it's going to be the same every time.
"Vaal Hazak was one of my favourite elder dragons in World" Somehow didn't know about effluvia resist until fighting the Arch Tempered version. Did you not check the armor set of your favorite monster?
Now that you mention it, the solution you suggested is one that I've already seen in a game before: Terraria. In Terraria, a lot of the bosses has a specific condition that needs to be met in order to fight them, usually that it's nighttime or that you are within a certain biome. When this condition is broken while the battle is still on-going the boss will usually either just leave, or it will enter an enraged state where its attacks are faster, deal more damage and are generally just unfair. It is meant to be a punishment for not killing the boss fast enough or for taking the fight too far away from the designated battle location. Yet this feature is actually well-received by the player base. A lot of people even enjoy taking on these bosses in their enraged state on purpose, and some even have unique drops that can only be acquired by defeating their enraged state.
Charge Blade main here, I definitely have several armor sets with primarily evasion up, marathon, defense, and crit/attack. I spent hours on Icebrone (I wish I could port over my PS4 save to Steam 😢) with a specific core decoration/charm set. It worked so well up until Alatreon, I quit World without being able to beat the horrid mechanic since it absolutely makes Charge Blade basically useless, and I couldn't figure out a build that worked to beat it in the time limit. But either way, I still absolutley LOVE this game because of all the prep and learning behind it. I love this video so much.
As a GS super main, this fight made me cry. Element sucks for GS and I was forced to completely change my heavy hitting playstyle into a full draw attack ice build with frostcraft to even have a chance. Then the horns break at a bad time, now I have to restart. So here I am searching through SOSs to hopfully find a dual blades team to carry me to the promised land of victory. Thank you for the carry DB mains. I'll carry you against Fatalis when my wombo combo hits for 2700+ with full partbreaker.
GS is actually a pretty good matchup against alatreon, since its high partbreaker value counts towards toppling alatreon. Plus frostcraft crit draw hit and run playstyle is one of the easiest playstyle against both alatreon and fatalis since you arent reliant on tenderizing. My advice is to hit his forelegs during fire/ice phase or until he topples, then go for head during dragon phase. If you still need the SOS help, im happy to help you out too
The worst part about Escaton Judgment is that it becomes significantly more dangerous in multiplayer. Unless you're with four people and all of you put down a health booster and spam Astera Jerky (something that doesn't realistically happen when playing with randoms, obviously), all four of you *will* die. It makes it so abandoning the quest is the objectively better thing to do, because it not only saves time but atleast saves one cart of the four 🥲 You did cook with that alternate phase idea in my opinion. You also reminded me that I've never actually beaten Alatreon solo (atleast as far as I can remember), so I might actually get around to that now before Wilds releases. Thanks for that!
alatreon was the tipping point where my entire friends group stopped playing, it was our first monster hunter game since it was the first one on pc and i alone managed to solo him after at least 50 tries, it was a gruesome encounter and i hated everthing about it because up until that point, for the vast majority of fights you could play very casually and still beat the monsters or be alternatively rewarded, like safijiva or kulve, but seeing absolutely no progress over weeks of playtime is a death sentence for casual players, i tried fatalis but he is just the same, except that instead of a dps check he just outright kills you since armor doesnt fucking do anything in this game aside from offensive buffs, i can only hope wilds will adress these flaws because my friends group really wants to give monster hunter another shot but iceborne left them very demoralised
I think Alatreon is the best fight in MHWI. If it wasn’t for Escaton Judgment and Escaton Judgement alone Alatreon is the fairest fight hands down. Incredibly well balanced fight.
Great idea for Alatreon, I've been doing some Alatreon practice recently and have 455 Alatreon hunted as for now. The biggest issue of Alatreon fight is everything is a countdown, so if I join the quest at the beginning I'm confident to deal enough elemental damage for 3 people, but join in Alatreon SOS quest is like buying lottery, sometimes after 2 miuntues in the quest Alatreon starts his super nova and everyone carted.
As a heavy bowgun player i have an simple example of this with fatalis. I like playing solo but because of that fatalis is partically impossible on heavybowgun without smokebomb spam. Im glad fatalis is susceptible to smoke bombs and there really helpful. But the problem comes in with the timer as only having 30 minutes takes the smoke bombs from a neat thing to use and prep for into a necessity and only way to reasonably beat him with this weapon as you just wouldnt have enough openings on heavybowgun specifically even with full evade window and evade up trust me ive tried i could live and get some hits in just not enough. Ive beaten fatalis but thats with greatsword as i had much more fun prep options such as going crit draw and do safe openings i knew or build to full charge every attack and really learn fatalis moves.
Great video, you make valid points. However next time I’d recommend trying different weapons, for example you’d be surprised how different Alatreon are for Lance and Charge Blade. Not only does your planning change, you straight up can’t guard for most of the fight for a meaningful interaction.
It’s more on stubbornness on my case. I got stuck on furious rajang for a long time because I refused to change my critical longsword build. Until one day it just clicked. The perfect no cart run, using the same build as before.
I do like the spectacle aspect of Escaton Judgement, but not reaching the elemental check in multiplayer just lost you the hunt instantly, which in my opinion was kinda dumb.
It's only a "forgotten" mechanic if you're Low Rank or struggling through High Rank without doing it. Viper Tobi-Kadachi filters you pretty hard if you're not optimizing your pre-hunt preparation. As for Alatreon, yes there is "one way" to do it (elemental) but figuring that out takes trial and error and though we now live in a time where one can consult a guide online it's still a challenge for someone at that stage of the game to really think about their build.
you idea has one flaw... and it is a forgotten mechanic too!! if your sheath your weapon, then you can run and superman dive. running is almost fast as dodging with a weapon and superman dive is completely invulnerable. when you have your weapon sheathed you are essentially able to completely avoid ANY monster. and it is actually rather easy to do
The issue, imho, stems from the fact that the outcome of many super attacks in modern MonHun are binary. Either you do it right, exactly right and specifically in the way it was intended to be done right, or you die. Super attacks in the past were dangerous, with oneshot potential even, but none were ever so cut and dry. There was always wiggle room, always one way to avoid death, through various means (even if its a farcaster back to base). From World onwards, that does not happen anymore. As far as i can tell, they decided to focus on spectacle with these attacks, and to do so its now much more scripted, in a way that leaves a lot to be desired in terms of gamedesign allowing for player expression.
To be honest, I do still think escaton is bad and DPS Checks that outright kill you are still antithetical to what monster hunter is about. That being said, all the other DPS checks in this game don't outright kill you and I have no problems with them. Yes, you have to break fatalis' head or the fight is gonna get really hard, but it's not mandatory. You can survive without breaking the head. The game hands you a problem and it's up to you to figure out a solution. It's why I like playing insect glaive against fatalis so much as an example. I chose insect glaive because fatalis has a ton of dangerous moves like the cone breath that will basically kill you if you get caught. Your options are tanking/guarding it or repositioning. With insect glaive I can vault as a reaction and safely stall in the air or make it out of the cone if I wasn't positioned correctly. With escaton judgment it's just: "you didn't play how we wanted you to, prepare to die"
I've also heard another preparation strategy used to take down the Alatreon was to bring a third monitor. It's apparently so effective, you can beat him blindfolded.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Another great video! I agree with your sentiment regarding Alatreon, keeping the player's agency and allowing them to tackle challenges their own way is one of the main reasons I am addicted to the series lol. I hope with Wilds we will have more encounters that encourage you to strategize your approach towards things!
Also, thanks for the credit and shoutout! 💙
Your work really deserves it.
“Vaal hazak is my favourite elder dragon”
“I main switch axe”
“I play super aggressively”
Me: I have found my people
YESSS MY SWAG AXE BRETHREN ARE HEREEE
UNGA BUNGA BROTHAAAAAS
Brainblaster GOOOOOOOO!!!!!
swaxe is king brother
Chainsawwwww…..
Some people just ignore defense, earplugs, wind pressure, etc; and slot evasion 3 and that is all they need.
We call those people Bowgun users...
Add Divine Blessing 5 and that’s me.
yeah, evade window and extender trumps all other utility skills
@@Zomboy123456789As a GS user, I love evasion.
Some don't even use that much and just go full ham on damage, using just their own skill and weapon's functions to overcome the challenge. That would be me- I played all of Master Rank from the first monster all the way to Shara with the High Rank Dragoon armor because nothing had as much damage output until relatively late in the game. It worked great.
"You have to think about your committal"
Me - *Furiously chugging Dash Juice*
Dual Blade?
And even that has a high commitment move in the devil dance in demon mode.
You've committed to chugging half a liter of speed.
and how does that effect the comitment of your attacks lol you still get punished for doing the wrong moves no matter if you are doped on dash juine or not lol!
Farming Chamelos for Kushala is the real og shit
Old Word kushala is sooo bad and no one talks about it
@J.aime_le_pain181 and a Kushala developing an immunity to flashes during the hunt was any better?
@@J.aime_le_pain181 Yeah it was bad. But with total wind negation he suddenly became a joke. Unless you love to play Bow which I did back in the days :l
I remember those Freedom Unite nights
@@J.aime_le_pain181Every Kushala is dogshit, old and new
I just think it sucks that the best elemental set for ala, full safi with kulve weapon, requires two exclusively timed quests and that kulve has no guarantee to drop the weapon you need so the rng is just unreasonable. If you use that set you kinda feel like the difficulty of alatreon goes to the same level as the rest of the game before it. It's also not really clear that any other elemental set super sucks in comparison unless you're in the know that these things are in the game and the full ramifications of stacking their buffs
That’s the damage optimization goblin in your head talking, that’s like a speed run build, I don’t think that people who are struggling in a fight want the chip damage that comes with the safi set. There are plenty of great elemental builds at that point in the game, and they are more then enough to beat him….
@@iceran9822 the health augment completely negates the drawback basically even on dualblades. its also fairly safe because its super easy to slot in blight res maxed out which makes the fight a lot more manageable. The difference in damage with still having some wiggle room for utility is not comparable to any other build you can get at this point. even in multiplayer i can basically solo the elemental check without having to be that locked in, i think its pretty clear they intended for you to at least have full safi and a health augment. I feel more or less confident that the health augment was intended also because Fatalis' final phase is significantly more evil without the health augment because of the constant chip damage from the floor fire, and often he spreads it so much you cant reasonably just drag him out of it everytime without running low on time eventually. Most people who struggle on ala aren't really struggling much against his moves cause hes well telegraphed and easy to dodge its really just that without having a set like safi kulve you have to be significantly more aggressive and on his ass constantly to meet the check so they end up playing way more sloppy
I used Glavenus (and I think Barioth?) IG without using Safi armor, it's fairly easy. You really don't need god tier loadout
i actually jsut used pre safi LS meta set with kulve ice duals on ala - they drop reasonably often ('ice that is - never seen one kjarr fire dual in 200+ runs if not more .. cant recall i did run that bish like 5 hours almost every day it was aktive last year
And then there's the mad lads who out healed the full power judgement
how is that possible? I need to know lol
@@ramen3643 2 words: Team Darkside
@KnottyTulip2713 ok yeah I can't do that lmao, I need 3 people and a shit ton of preparation
@@ramen3643most difficult part of monster hunter: having friends
@@MrNicePotato lmao, luckily some of my friends are finally gonna get into monster hunter once wilds comes out
10:56 that basement dweller skill is the most important one. Without it, the entire thing falls apart.
I think newer hunters who are all about META builds(element,raw,crit-up) don’t realize how much some comfort skills add to overall hunt DPS for casual players.
It’s true the DPS potential has a higher ceiling for META builds ON PAPER. But to aspect everyone can play as perfect as speed runners is false. Some comfort skills add much more DPS for casual hunters overall.
They dont seem to understand the amount of tries and training with that specific Monster It took for those speedruns
Something I'd repeat so many times in the MHW days when people in my guild were asking for advice on their builds was "DPS is more than just the numbers. Whatever helps you attack safely and more often is something that increases your DPS."
Preach! Evade distance is my crutch. I need it on all my builds
Love your idea for Alatreon new phase in place of ES. It makes the fight doable even after 2 horn breaks ( cuz even with reaching dps check, and horn being easily breakable. That thing still has 50k HP ).
That phase would be fun as hell, and an absolute HEAVEN for lance mains like myself.
Love yo vid, man.
Wait that's a great idea. I think it's dumb that Escaton Judgement CAN still kill you if you break the element. Putting in this phase is sounds way more flexible while being harder.
you need to smack him out of his elemental state and break a horn, you CAN survive just knocking him out of his state with no horn break, but you would either need to do two elemental state breaks, or take a health booster and some well timed heals.
Alatreon is just a beast. He should still be able to kill you.
This concept was already what alatreon is in the previous games
In portable 3 he will charge his head first before going to flight mode and you need to keep hitting his head or else you will deal with a lot more annoying alatreon with more potent moveset
I guess bringing this concept phase back would be better, but I like it better if it will be just a leveled up dragon mode where he can use all the powered up elements and maybe combo them up like a true avatar dragon
that would make the fight soooooo gosh darn more enjoyable .....especially on solo - otherwise i can recommend to get at least he hp bar mod to see the horns hp - it also takes away alot of stress.
@@ManiX207 no.
Awesome video and nice job on the cuts. :3 I love your 'Primordial Malzeno' style solution to the Alatreon dilemma. Alatreon was my biggest struggle and wall in World/Iceborne. With my ADHD, it took me literal years to reach the point that I finally accepted and understood it would take me weeks of planning, preparation, augmenting, farming Safi/Kulve and testing out different builds as well as weeks of practice with over 50 attempts before I could finally solo that assignment, and I committed myself to returning to World to finish it. I had mostly used Charge Blade in World/Iceborne, but after trying Insect Glaive, Bows, CBs, and various others, I finally ended up having to use the Switch Axe as well. (which I mained in Tri/3U/Rise) It forced me to make a massive shift from my usual playstyle due to the mechanics and I really had to think deeply about my strategy while at the same time having to rely on muscle memory to dodge his skills from practicing so much. It certainly made me a better hunter in the end.. but the amount of sacrifice was in some ways so high for me individually that it really soured my personal experience of Iceborne overall. Again, I love your ideas on how to solve the issue, and I'm hoping that the dev teams took the feedback they got from Alatreon and used it in how they designed Primordial in Sunbreak and also going forward into Wilds.
honestly, at first i was a bit sceptical about what that vid was going to be (basically the typical "escaton bad, remove dps check") but i wish capcom thought about your solution, i think it's great and could've also been a fun challenge (maybe we could've even got mods that would keep him in this phase throughout the entire fight like a devilgen nergi), nice vid man
I mean, Escaton is a bad mechanic, yes. Surely you aren't acting like it isn't
@@JeanneFeisont i mean it's not a bad mechanic as a whole, especially since doing pre-escaton isn't that hard and the threashold isn't that high, but i'd rather have it as a super enrage phase rather than a one shot mechanic that's for sure.
Though remember that alatreon and fatalis are supposed to be super-bosses, due to both of them being black dragons, so they are supposed to have something that dictates how much damage you're doing, i could say the same thing for blue flamme fatalis, except here the idea of a super high damage was taken, you don't break the head you gotta deal with full power fatalis and get one shotted on mostly anything, it's still the same mechanic, just on raw damage as a part break
As a dual blade main, the turn based goes my turn, my turn, their turn, I counter their turn with my turn and then it's my turn again. 😂
I really liked the alatreon fight outside of that elemental dps check, the fight just felt incredibly well but meeting the elemental quota was kinda hard for me since I pmuch only use hammer and was used to going for raw dmg builds.
Regarding preparation, I feel like there's a lot less on world compared to older games and I worry it'll keep going away.
Seems a bit contradicting, you fear preparation might have less emphasis, but at The same time you dont like a mechanic that actively brought some of that into world. Adaptability has always been a thing in MH. Im no saying its your case, but if "you" get mad cause The game asks something a bit more specific from The player than what they have used for all of their playthrough, well, thats on The player for not wanting to get out of their Comfort zone in a game that rewards experimentation, thats why weapon and element matchups are and always have been the core of the game. Im sorry if you cant raw bonk everything in The game, but imo Capcom shouldnt accomodate single weapon playthroughs in how they design fights.
@@samuraibeluga3749goddamn the sass in this comment
@@samuraibeluga3749 Cause elemental damage is completely irrelevant to hammer aside from that fight, it was something I got accustomed to ignore almost completely.
I didn't have any issue with the fight, I was doing good enough to shatter its horns, but I would get wiped regardless of how good I did because I wasn't meeting that particular requirement. By skill alone I was doing alright yet the game insisted in punishing me for not taking advantage of a mechanic it had previously taught me was useless for my playstyle.
The game during +200h never once punished me for only using hammer, neither for prioritizing raw damage over elemental damage. In the end I still managed to clear it using hammer but to me it feels like that proves my point, I was doing well with my hammer, I just didn't pay attention to the specific stats the game cared about even tho those stats are useless for my weapon.
Preparation is cool, I'm all in for bringing flash bangs and whatever you want for any given monster, adapting your build and playstyle to the monster you are fighting and so on. However all Alatreon did was ask me if I had an elemental damage build.
Look at Safi for example, bringing life dust to heal pinned teammates, flashbangs to both drain it and prevent it from using the star on the last floor, etc.
@@samuraibeluga3749 Taking dung pods to drive away invaders, flash bangs to make them fall from the sky, antidotes for poisonous monsters, adapting your build and playstyle to a monster, all of that's cool. For me all Alatreon did was check if I was using an elemental damage build, which I wasn't cause my +300h hours of experience with the game taught me that elemental damage on hammers was pointless, with my original build for that fight I somewhat consistently managed to shatter its horns b4 the dps check, that I still failed it is kinda shitty cause my build wasn't some random shit put together, my only mistake was not having high elemental stats. I eventually cleared Alatreon still using hammer by just maxing my elemental damage.
@@UmbrumE40 ok and was it such a crazy sacrifice to make you stray a bit off the standart build type you used up to that point? like i dont get how or why thats a bad thing.
again the choice to only use one weapon type is yours alone. like i said elemental and weapon matchups have always been a thing, some monsters will inherently shine with some weapon types than others, but if you want to go at it all with just hammer and basic dmg boosting build thats your perrogative, but dont be mad as soon as the game actually makes incentivizes you to adapt to a particular challenge, cause thats kinda the point. this is not elden ring where you are inehrently attached to one specific build for most if not all of the game cause you are incentivized to specialize by the nature of point distribution. in mh all it takes is perhaps a little bit more farming (the whole point of mh as a whole) and congrats you have a decent enough set to jump at him. i come from a time where end game in mh was make all kinds of sets for all kinds of purposes and weapon types, that was the fun, "oh gonna fight a raja, let me grab my gs set, oh gonna fight a garuga, oh let me grab my hammer set, oh gonna fight a blangonga, let me grab my element sns set etc"
i understand being more of a casual player, and perhaps not feeling like engagin the game in that way, i wont criticize you, but the problem is not on the game then, its on the limitations you inherently impose yourself, whether consciously or unconsciously.
Another problem with Alatreon is (thats just my guess) that its elemental DPS check mechanic exists solely just because of the insane powercreep Iceborne had.
This powercreep at that time peaked with Raging Brachy Armor and Weapons.
Like dont even get me started how bad the powercreep was.
Just as an example: as Iceborne came out, the Acidic Glavenus GS was considered "too op" by many. Now compare it to any other DLC GS.
So to stop players from using the completely op powercreep sets, they introduced a mechanic that forced players to use Elemental weapons.
Now there are multiple problems:
First of all the best Elemental Armorsets at that time were Safi and Silverlos Armor.
Safi is high risk high reward. But many didn't want to use it for such a dangerous monster.
Silverlos armor is just horrible. Basicly no room for customisation.
To be fair, they also added MR Kulve Taroth before it, including the weapons with crit element, which is a bit weaker than the crit element of Silverlos armor.
But to get those weapons you have to do the extremely horrible RNG raid with Kulve.
So yeah... definitely not great.
In regards of weapons, you could atleast use some like the Safi ones.
Again a raid boss, but atleast better.
So now they leave you little room with customisation, atleast you will be able to play your favorite weapon type, right?
No.
Even tho they changed the elemental multipliers of each weapon type specifically for this fight, buffing some and nerfing some, its still not enough.
Despite big buffs, GS still makes barely any elemental damage compared to DBs or Chargeblade.
So... thats great...
They wanted players to stop using the new op powercreep meta, a problem the developers themselves created!
And to achieve this, they forced players to play another very specific and limiting meta...
Great.
Also everyone just abandoned that meta after Alatreon 😂
So it didn’t even help.
I think an easy fix would have been that instead of that bs DPS check that can wipe an entire team, Alatreon just becomes more unstable and stronger if you didn’t hit the DPS check.
Similar to Fatalis, but in a way were its still fair.
Even tho Fatalis one hits you with every fire move in its last phase, if you didn’t destroy a horn, you can still break it in this last phase.
I would make it so, that when Alatreon becomes more unstable and stronger, because you missed the DPS check, you can still knock it out of that stronger form by dealing enough elemental damage or breaking a horn.
This way the fight doesn't instantly punish an entire party at once.
Btw i wrote this comment before watching your vid to the end, and your idea to fix it is quite literally almost the same 😂
great sword can elemental topple alatreon in only 2 hits
@@1meyzee really? Never worked for me even with the best set and hitting the head
@@obambagaming1467 his arms have the best elemental hitzone bro
@@obambagaming1467go for head to kill and break horns. Focus arms for topple.
that period in time was super awesome and I loved that they gave us the gear to take on the fight before introducing alatreon. it was a great time to be active in teh game.
7:20 For a long time I have thought of Dark Souls 1 as the world’s fastest turn based rpg.
My favorite memory of preparing for a hunt was against Hyper Jho in GU. I was being absolutely destroyed and if I didn’t triple cart I couldn’t beat it in time. My solution was to take my trusty Swaxe and add Evade Extender, Tremor Resistance and Mushroomancer. Whenever It would do the stomp move I’d Elemental Discharge. Something I could only pull off with Tremor Resistance. And infinite stamina from Mushroomancer as well as Evade Extender helped me get there in time. Beating it felt really good.
The music choice at the end is a little cheeky this time. Yes, it is a black dragon( ironic since it’s all but black) but not the one you would expect. Quite the interesting choice.
Gotta love tremor resist, I remember that skill alone halved my clear time against hyper jho when I was farming it. Optimizations like that are so rewarding.
On a side note, can we just please recognize the sheer glory of Mushroomancer in old generations?
You could bring 10 extra max potions. 10!
And 10 more mega potions too!
That literally over quintuples your healing loadout, in games without restocking!
@@somebodyanonymous4608I use it on all my builds. With non scaled hunts taking quite some time any extra healing is very appreciated.
This video made me go to Steam and install MHW again. I never managed to beat Alatreon on my own (had a friend help me) and never got around to doing Fatalis as I didn't feel like I earned it. I'll do another full playthrough with my beloved, the longsowrd, as I didn't fully click with Greatsword when I tried it a few months back (let's ignore the fact that I missed more TCSs in 5 hours than Helmbreakers in my 200 hr first playthrough)
You got this!
The worst thing about the incredible game is that I can’t skip the story. 😂like my brother in Christ I’ve played so many of these games and all I know is monster crashing out go deal with them.
@@primecelron6764 on pc you can its like 2 minutes to install the mod
Could not possibly agree more! This is exactly what I've been saying from the moment the fight came out. The number of specific hoops you have to jump through to deal with that one single mechanic is ridiculous.
You have to build element, you have to play aggressively, you have to hit the hitzones that actually take good elemental damage, you have to break the horns (which btw aren't the best place to deal elemental damage), and then even after having done ALL of that correctly (while fighting a fair, but still difficult boss) you still have to heal through an unavoidable attack that will kill you no matter what your defenses are. That's the most infuriating part of it for me though, that even after doing everything correctly, your reward is being hit with an attack completely unprecedented in the history of the series that you cannot avoid at all and will kill you. That should be the PUNISHMENT not the REWARD. Even BS like Lunastra's supernova can be avoided by chaining panic dives.
Speaking of Lunastra, despite the amount of raw hatred much of the player base rightfully has for World's incarnation of this monster, it does still reward the player for preparation while giving leeway to find different solutions. Of course, you can build for fire/heat resistance or evasion, but also, the most valuable utility to have against Lunastra in my opinion is wind resistance. There are a lot of small winds that naturally occur during the fight that will inevitably combo into getting hit by otherwise avoidable fire attacks, but also, wind resistance makes it SO much easier to chain panic dives during the supernova. I definitely wouldn't say that the Lunastra fight executes this design philosophy well, but it still does it so much better than World's Alatreon fight, and I think that's a horrible shame, because like you said, I absolutely love everything about World's Alatreon EXCEPT for Escaton Judgement. It completely baffles me that the same people who complain about Lunastra will sing the praises of the Alatreon fight including Escaton Judgement. I simply do not understand.
I'd say they're both on the same level of required preparation. Just like Lunastra, Alatreon does offer some leeway for different strategies - those hoops are not THAT specific. Yes, you have to play aggressively, but that's not an exclusivity. Behemoth and Kulve also have time limits to their fights. You need to hit the best elemental hitzones, but that's not an issue at all, since those are the spots that you normally hit, the legs. Front legs are better, but hind legs will do just fine, as long as they're tenderized. If you have a problem breaking the horns, then you can just NOT go for them and use a dragon weapon instead. In the end, the damage threshold is not that high.
Then we get to Escaton... the only punishment is failing to get to the first threshold. After that, it's all just a matter of protecting yourself, just like hiding from an Ecliptic Meteor. If you toppled it once, a single jerky will do if you have 200hp. If you can topple it twice, it won't kill you regardless.
Honestly that's a pretty interesting solution to the Escaton Judgement.
It's also in-line woth Fatalis head break mechanic as well, where blue flame could one shot you but you still have a chance to win if you can dodge everything.
I would love your new change. Not because I have a problem with judgment, but because brute forcing a geeked out Alatreon like a coked out caveman sounds very fun.
A couple discussions off this. First, preparation being forgotten. Certain gameplay styles and mindsets can be promoted or hindered through game design, but ultimately the player is going to do what they want to do most, with an increasing cultural expectation that games will support them to victory regardless of what that way is. MonHun grew with the dominant community mindset being that a clear is a clear, so prep as much as you can to clear as often as you can. The meta mindset was still around, especially in whatever the charm farm mission was, but it had minimal impact on community experience, and therefor design decisions. World included so many tiny choices and mechanics for the slow and preparing player, and yet the community it found was addicted to high damage numbers and low hunt times, out-skilling any and all attempts to force "inferior dps" into their builds. It's an equally valid way to approach the game, has always been around, and World's design supports it well, but the huge shift in the "common" approach had ripples on the community and the devs designing new content.
Alatreon was the apex of this struggle. The devs wanted to encourage non-meta thinking, but the community resisted so much it pushed them to Escaton. Even through Escaton, many people still resist the entire notion of an elemental check to this day. And despite all this, the people who were trying to prep for Ala as intended found themselves extremely limited, caught up in this design war not meant for them.
There is a second path through Ala that feels intended: dragon solo or thunder/water group and not requiring the horn breaks. This is how my group cleared Ala when it first came out, however that created a different design problem. We kept failing element checks on really good runs. The reason? The head takes less element damage than the legs, so "good runs" with everyone crowding the head during downs actually resulted in barely missing the checks. The moment we looked up this hitzone knowledge we started winning consistently, but being the first and only hitzone we ever researched made it a somewhat bitter victory. So even doing the fight as prep-focused as possible, with everyone all having a unique build for a specific role in a coordinated team of 4, the experience the devs so badly wanted, it still fell short by being too strict and unclear. The simple knowledge of how close to passing we were would have meant a lot for groups like mine.
The extremely high quality of Ala's back-and-forth pacing and hitboxes finally made me start to hate the clutch claw. Not tenderizing, not wallbangs in an arena with dubious walls, but the actual act of attaching to the monster. So many valuable turns have been wasted or turned to carts because of attaching to the wrong part and having no control where you end up after getting off. Any earlier fight you have enough options and low enough punishments that I didn't mind the jank, but it's my one frustration with the solo Ala experience.
Yeah the feet hitzone thing is ridiculous
I think the problem with Alatreon isn't that it forces you into a playstyle. I think it's the fact that there's very few monsters that you have to prepare for before that point. There should be a clearer build up for using different playstyles against different monsters. Why should one play style work against everything? Yeah sure it's player choice but should the player always have that choice? Sometimes you are facing an elder dragon of legends with full control of the elements. I don't think you should be fighting on your terms at that point, they are far too powerful for that. Adapt and overcome, such is the nature of monster hunter.
in the game that this was the first time ever you could just change your weapon mid hunt, they chose to lock you out of it. a monster who has master over elements, but if you're seeing it change elements, you already lost... brilliant design
also I found that you had to prepare way to much compared to other monsters, even Fatalis
This was basically how elder dragons felt in 4U, I literally brought Poison Smoke Bombs for Kushala
My biggest problem with Alatreon is not even the preparation, it's how gimmicky he is. Getting different weapons of different elemental types and choosing the right one is pretty neat, or it would be if the fight itself didn't fucking suck. The individual moves are very cool and it's fun to fight him, but the constant elemental staggers, breaking the horns, the goddamn clutch claw... it's like the game is CONSTANTLY trying to make you do everything other than just duel the monster.
It feels like an MMO fight, not a Monster Hunter fight. It's more gimmicky than the purposefully gimmicky Behemoth fight. I much prefer Primordial Malzeno's or even Fatalis' (though *also* fuck that guy) straightforward "it's just hard" approach.
I mean there’s a trade off between “choosing this weapon/playstyle is suboptimal and will lead to long clear times” and “if you attempt this you are 99% sure you fail.”
4:10 alright hear me out: LANCE. Every one of those attacks is an opening for a quick jab, rotate, and the next one is too. All you have to look out for is the orbs of lightning, and that you can just backstep away from.
Wall beats rock >:)
"Wait whats it doing? That's right its ruining the hunt."
I love it.
Great video man, keepp up with the good work 🙏🙏
One thing i find funny, is how in world i thought Furious Rajang was the almost impossible to take care of and after no joke, 1 week of trying to kill it it became my 3nd favorite monster. And now playing Sunbreak for the first time, fighting was almost relaxing, i never became surprise with anything he did and never thought of a real danger, while fighting some others monsters i almost lost my shit 😭. And funny how i smash my head against all monster and that fact made to me Alatreon the 2nd best fight in the entire game, i just needed to make a build with elemental damage and smash my head against him until i got good enought to pass the damage check and that felt amazing
I had the same experience with normal rajang way back in Freedom Unite. He's still my favorite monster. He's fast but he's very predictable, and the flow of weaving around and through his attacks without getting touched is so satisfying.
A friend of mine is the same but with Deviljho. I still find him to be tough be she makes him look so easy, lol.
What's the forgotten mechanic? You basically just explained how Monster Hunter is played
Clickbait title probably
Preparation.. Newer games have much less need of it.
Back in the ps2 day i used to craft whole new sets of gear and wrapons just to beat a new monster. Today i can go start to g rank just upgrading princess rapier on world.
Everything is toned down with each new installment. Even with the new Wilds coming out, it seems another core aspect of Tracking is being lessened albeit forgotten.
For the most part of the 5th gen(world, rise and their expansions) you don’t really need to prep for the hunts
As someone who solo Alatreon with every melee weapon, yess alatreon design is so wonderful. The hitbox is so precise and it's attack animation also have openings/chance "makes you feels like fighting a turn based game", i couldn't agree more when you said that.
You need to be patiently aggressive to hunt this bad boy ❤
However, due to the way his elemental dps sprint mechanic was designed, certain weapons, like gunlance, basically had to strip their entire identity just to be able to clear it comfortably (Dropping shelling entirely, in favor of slap lance). Other weapons also didn't get enough compensatory elemental modifiers to make it worth it, and eventually devolved into the brute force fortify counter meta, which was equally as annoying. And god forbid you were in rando teams or sos, and you were basically guaranteed to fail.
@emosgowoof the only weapon that's pain in the ass to clear properly with elemental is HBG for me, not the brute force raw+fortify but proper elemental run. Gunlance is all right, you can still shell here and there, just mixed in slap gunlance/burst + poke shell (wide shell playstyle), slip in wyrmstake cannon when it floating and use breath attack to the ground.
I think you the main point WHY people complain about Alatreon, is not the preperation, where defense people need to play aggressive, it's that the game didn't telegraph to the player how to defeat it in the first place.
If you lose against a monster, that's normally on you, but in Alas case it was out of your hand. There was no way to prepare for Ala, and Ala is literally the only quest where you can't use farcaster.
If you use the wrong element against it, NPCs will tell you your element is wrong, but if e.g. you use thunder, which is not that uncommend, considering that raging rajang had some of the best weapons in the game at the time, they would not comment on it, because thunder is "effective", only a lil bit, but not enough not to stand a chance against Ala.
Maybe, you are very luckly, and all your team has strong dragon weapons, BUT most likely, you won't have this with you on your first try, as long as you did not get spoiled from other players about how to hunt Ala.
Ala itself was an awesome fight, I remember I had a really good time, but then boom out of the sudden I carted, and so did my team. Another try, same result.
There was no way of telling what we did wrong. No NPC told you about that you need these specific elements before you entered the hunt.
If the game can't tell you in any sort of way, be it in text or gameplay form, that you do of what you have to do, then it fails. Trial and error is normal, but if trial and error includes a game over, then the game design is flawed. You didn't lose against Alatreon because you were a bad hunter, you lost because the game was not able to communicate to you how to defeat it.
If you face a new monster and get your a$$ kicked, thats awesome on paper, because it normally means you can overcome it within the hunt if you are a good hunter. You adept to the monster, and then slay it. But adepting within Alatreons hunt is impossible. Like I said, you cannot change weapons, even if you notice what is going on. The Ala hunt is LITERALLY the only hunt where the camp mechanic would have been nessesary, but they choose to make farcaster not work, only in this one hunt.
If you know what to do, Ala is an awesome and fun hunt, if you know how to hunt it down before. But your first try, will be a a downer, because you don't feel like you lost because you suck, you feel like you got betrayed by the game designer. It's like you walk through a door and behind is a guy with a gun pointing at your head, and you are dead. Sure, next time you will know, try to avoid that guy, but you can't expect players to know an unknown unknown. There are games, where this works, like with time mechanics, where you turn back time, e.g. the latest Fire Emblem games. But I dont think MH is simliar to these type of games.
You were wrong in the first few lines of text. The monster information has his abilities in there. The handler and the captain tell you in the fight to suppress the element, and to break the horns. It is not a surprise, and they did prepare you for it.
@@DoNotFearTheReapa You literally just "the handler tells you IN the quest". When they tell you in the Quest, it's allready to late, you can't change the element.
Also, like I said, they only tell you, if you use the wrong element. E.g. you use a Explosion weapon, then they say "hey, your weapon sux against ala", but if you use e.g. thunder, they don't give a crap, because thunder is "effective".
The thing is, I almost completely agree with you. this is my number 1 favorite monster period. of course eschaton judgment is a problem here but that’s because there are so many of them. Instead of replacing the eschaton judgment for a more aggressive Alatreon mode altogether, we get the aggressive mode but eschaton judgment happens only once when it’s on its last legs. That would make this fight perfection.
I love eschaton judgment. Just not how it’s designed in iceborne.
@@senseispyro8742 imo its perfect the devs designed and fine tuned an experience and if u dont engaje with It u loose
@@agssilv5919 just because it’s fine tuned doesn’t mean it’s perfect. Now I know for a fact you’re just trying to pick a fight. Don’t you have better things to do than harass others with no real claim. BTW work on your grammar.
I really hate how much the "If you used X, you didn't beat the game" mentality still has a hold on me to this day. Even if I play by my own, even if I talk to no one about how I played it, I still feel it in the back of my brain every time I pick that one weapon up on Souls games, or slot that one skill on Monster Hunter.
I had discussion with a redditor about using items that the game provides, it was an elder ring post and I remember I said players are basically finding ways to handicap themselves by putting conditions to a fight, and I ended up saying that if it's in the game it's legal and you should take your victory, and that redditor basically said that using mimic tear was cheating or something like that, as long a is not a mod is legal and using x items should not represent a problem, he ended up being downvoted
If someone ever makes fun of you doing your own way like something they consider "cheating" even tho the mechanic / item is available in the game how it intended. Just say "sure man, u are just better. Good for you". We can enjoy games however we like, they can't control you.
@@AndresRodriguez-cc5ky i mean there is no actual cheating you are just cheating yourselve out of the experience in elden ring's case It was super sad seeing people just jumping in couse It was "the hot thing" at the time and looking for the "ultimate most meta weapons easiest build to defeat x" just trynna finish the game caring mostly about hanging some sort of medal around their neck saying i beat the souls game and many of those people didnt really enjoy the game and what they did with a sentiment of "that was It?" not getting the experience and what people actually enjoy in those games
Nice video, I just wanted to add that Fatalis doesn’t just phase into high damage only, phase 3 brings three new attacks, much faster attacks, and of ofcourse, the blue flame INSANE damage as a punish for you for not breaking its horn(s) in time. What I do like about Fatalis is you still can beat it without breaking its horns if you are precise and careful enough, just like a souls boss if I may say.
6:37 That transition is amazing haha
we love turn based games 😌 your replacement phase idea for escaton was pretty dope and felt really well thought out 👍👍👍 real good video
I'd I feel like in practice we'd drink a dash juice and keep rolling the entirety of the 90 seconds.
As a hammer main, Alatreon was a special kind of challenge, since when he dropped there were no good ice element hammers (and even then, hammer doesn't do the best elemental damage) so I had to adapt. I tried using charge blade but I just couldn't figure out the controls, so I switched to the "best weapon in the game". I started learning longsword and it sent me on a journey. I crafted two low rank longswords (one fire and one ice) and would hunt my way through their upgrade tree, from low rank to G rank and learning the weapon with each progressive hunt, until I had them maxed out and could finally face Alatreon. It was still not an easy fight, but finally beating Alatreon was one of my all time favorite Monster Hunter experiences, since I coulnd't beat him in Monster Hunter Tri when I was a kid, and going through this journey to not only get weapons better suited for the fight, but learning the mechanics as well was amazing.
Might be a bit late to mention but the elemental capabilities VS alatreon are either buffed or nerfed depending on the weapons capacity to deal elemental thats why there IS a build in which the gs can meet the requieres elemental dmg in 2 tcs
Healthbars in the old games look insane whole screen
Alatreon's judgement is prob the most controvertial thing in the game many hate it and many loce it
It reminds me of what the id software devs said when asked about player freedom and the choices they made when balancing Doom eternal compared to Doom 2016.
In comparison to doom 2016 eternal doesnt let hold as much ammo for any weapon as 2016 this was done so that player wouldnt just use their fav weapon and would use the rest of them even using quick switching a technique to maximize DPS thx to the alternate use of múltiple weapons to sidestep the cooldown of special shots and general rpm but they didnt just give u less ammo they gave u a way to get ammo back but on a cooldown now your chainsaw would regenerate up to one charge. They also made the Demons and the doom slayer quicker and more agile this meant that now playing a more hyoer aggresive always on the move style was necessary.
They basically called It the doom dance a playstyle in which u would dump resources onto the Demons the health , armor u would lose , the ammo to kill them and other special things and u would get them back by killing them using different tools , exucutions would give u health , killing enemies burning from your flamethrower would give u armor and killing with the chainsaw would give u ammo.
When asked about player Who may not want that kind of playstyle id software basically said players may know what they want but what they want may not lead to the best possible experience or fun
Doom eternal is still regarded as the best pve , fps arena shooter and It became better than its predecessor by fine tuning the experience the developers wanted and believed in and the reducing player choices to drive them in the direction they wanted
Thank you for for putting into words all my issues with World Alatreon.
It really grinds my gears that people just dismiss any criticism of how World ended, and claim that Alatreon and Fatalis are perfect fights, especially when I know of several friend groups, including my own, that completely fell apart because of how bad they were, and suddenly no one in said groups wanted to play the game anymore and communication fell off a cliff.
I fell like the greatest failing in iceborne is pacing. Fighting the strongest dragons in the series right after beating the story while fighting ruined after me 100 is kinda wild.
4:50 A bit of a unorthodox pick, marathon runner
Me: A great choice more stamina is always good
Wh wh why, why there are crickets?
When it comes to Alatreon, in my personal opinion, having only one way to beat it, without spending hundreds of hours to prepare and use a different technique, fits the Description of a Black Dragon in the lore. He is a walking Katastrophe, something that stands way above every food chain, over nature itself,he is no mere Animal, it's a personified natural disaster that even Elder Dragons fear so having only "one weakness" to exploit to be able to kill him feels right for me. Ofc not everyone sees it that way or even cares about the lore at all, and that's fine, I just really enjoyed him, he is my favorite Black Dragon and this fight is a absolute Loveletter for me. I wasn't able to get his armor way back in Tri, because the servers shut down, and I was only able to kill him once before that, and waiting so long to finally Slay him feels so good.
Man your Alatreon suggestion sounds so much better than the real thing. Alatreon is who is next on my progression docket but I am dreading fighting him as a more passive/defensive player that lacks out lasting monsters than going all anime with flashy moves. Probably as it is my only hope is to go in alone and eat for Felyne Safeguard/Insurance knowing I'm going to eat a few Escaton Judgements. As long as I can beat it before the fourth one I theoretically should be fine.
this is exactly what I had to do with PrimZeno. Every single monster in Rise I just plowed through with Light Bowgun. but PrimZeno was just too fast and hit too hard for me to go in without any prep. I had to equip a bunch of evasion jewels and switch to a dragon resistance armor set. Gave myself dragonblight immunity so it didn't take out half my health with a single attack anymore, and used the Magnamalo themed Dango to give myself an anti-cart focus sash. (I also equipped the gem for that so I could tank 2 life threatening hits before getting carted, effectively giving me 9 lives for the duration of the hunt). It was still a slog, but I managed to beat the dang thing.
That first minute intro segment is single-handedly the reason I DEEPLY enjoy monster hunter. No other game does ANYTHING CLOSE to this in rewarding and satisfying ways.
Good discussion. Too many players go through this game without using 90% of the monster-specific prep the game offers, instead always using their one set they consider "minmaxed". Alatreon is one of the only monsters whose prep requirements are STRICTLY enforced. I would actually be glad if a hunt like this appeared earlier in the game to have a teaching effect on how to manage frustrating monster mechanics. If your proposed alatreon phase was extremely difficult, enough to make every player recognize it and have that teaching effect, I might endorse it. But as it currently stands, I'm actually happy with the current alatreon mechanics: MHW has always been a raw (non-elemental) damage game, so this makes alatreon a refreshing fight for a change. And if you really want to go raw against alatreon - I think you make it sound more difficult than it is. I'm primarily a solo player like yourself, and during my very first alatreon kill I used a raw damage gunlance, fortify, and safeguard as prep.
All that being said, I also believe that the vaal hazak (even non-AT) miasma ruins the hunt: Without miasma resist, the mechanic is grueling as you said, while with miasma resist the monster becomes a boring pushover compared to other elders in that stage of the game. Which I found sad considering how much me, you, and others love hazak's design. I was even sadder when I learned that the iceborne hazak variant leans even more into the miasma mechanic.
Honestly, that would be my favorite fight in the whole monster hunter series
My friend and I tried alatreon for the first time yesterday. About 20 attempts, didn't get through a single escaton. The movesets of the monster itself are alright, but the fight as a whole...
It crams too many things into one fight, and even after you figure those out, the game doesn't tell you enough to actually beat the monster. I managed to kill furious Rajang and raging Brachy on the first try. They were hard fights, sure, but I was prepared for them in terms of movements and mechanics. I didn't have to make a special loadout for them, I just used my normal master rank loadout. But Alatreon? Grabbed our best ice weapons, died. Tried slamming him against a wall, he slid against it and turned around. Tried to hit him, he spends three minutes flying instead. Tried to hit him again, he spends three minutes running to the other side of the arena and then back instead. Ok, bad AI luck we thought, time to try again. Still, no dice. You don't even get a hunter's note entry on him until you kill him, so we have no idea what his hitzones or exact weaknesses are. We have to look up specific videos, wiki entries and guides. Apparently, his forelimbs are the best hitzones, and you are wasting your time hitting anything else. His horns take no damage until the dragon phase. You need Safi armor and Kjarr weapons, plus ice attack boost, and staying in front of him, rolling through attacks instead of running, to maybe, just maybe, weaken escaton one time to survive. Sure would've been nice to either A. Not have to spend the next 60 hours farming Safi and grinding lands for gear and augments, or B. have the game actually tell us some of these things, instead of "use elemental weapons".
The fight sucks because you need a hyper specific build, unlike every other monster in the game that you can beat through methodical gameplay and use of specific items from your inventory. You need to manage the dragonblight. You need to hit only his arms. You need to break his horns only in dragon phase. You need to pray that he doesn't spasm and run or fly all around the map where you can't kill him... and do alll of that over and over again, because he has an insane amount of health compared to every other normal monster. It's just too many things to spring on people at once. Behemoth is a collab event quest and explicitly tells you what to do and that you need a team. Kulve is a siege with the same premise. Same for Safi. Then comes Alatreon, and here I come, bashing my head against him like a brick wall, thinking that he's just a normal monster boss like Nergigante, Xeno'Jiva or Velkhana, only to realise that I have to prepare for him more than for every single other monster in the game, combined. And the gear from him doesn't even look good or have good stats. He's just an annoying gate to Fatalis, for the sake of being annoying. Every other instakill move in the game I can get behind, but this? A 5 minute guaranteed cart due to a dps check unless you have a hyper specific loadout and use a hyper specific method to kill him? It just ain't fun
Imo, one of your best videos that you've put out, a well thought out and explained solution to a problem that annoys a majority of the playerbase
So glad I stumbled into this video, because it translated exactly how I felt with Alatreon. I love the boss design, I love the hitboxes, but I always liked to play more passively, and it was fine during the entire game, until the last two bosses where you don't have this option anymore. I feel like a lot of the decisions regarding the 3 big final challenges in Iceborne went on the route of "Difficulty goes up by making player freedom of playstyle go down", and it really hits hard when you are on the side that does not enjoy the super agressive playstyles. It sucks that the final fights felt like ticking checkboxes, and not that the victory came from extra personal preparation with a plan that fits one's preferred way to play.
Bro cooked with that new Alatreon mode.
That’s a very interesting perspective that you shared. I never had an issue with Alatreon nor Escaton but after watching the video and looking through the comments, I can understand where some of the complaints come from.
I’ve been playing since Freedom 2, and play most weapon types to a decent enough level. When I first learned of what was required in the fight, I immediately wrote off weapons traditionally bad with element and focused my strategy around weapons like SNS, DBs and later on elemental CB. (I know elemental values are adjusted for that fight, this is just my initial thought process)
Weapon matchup against the monster is the first thing I think about when doing a hunt, so maybe as someone that keeps their options open, I didn’t feel how Alatreon really funneled players to approach the fight in a singular way.
My go-to for this fight remains SNS for solo and elemental CB for multi
This exactly. Escaton is literally why i stopped playing the game for a really long time and up to this day i have never beaten that Alatraeon and World/Iceborne is my least favorite game. I'm a veteran from 3U to current, and the removal of choice in how I prepared made me feel really alienated. I've always been an elemental user, so i thought I'd be fine, but the dps check, his powerful moves, smart as hell ai, constant carting, loss of resources, and then not guaranteeing his rare drop if i managed to beat him, killed all motivation
I love alatreon and didn’t understand how anyone could hate it until you explained it. I definitely would love to see your version of the fight
4:28 previously “ my first triple cart was to FURIOUS RAJANG” also him. “ I’m bad at the game”
As a Gunlancer, I think Escaton Judgement is a really unfair mechanic because shell damage does not count as elemental damage (used to be fire damage in gen 2) hence it invalidates any gunlance playstyle that relies on shells which is, y'know, the one thing that gunlance does, thus forcing you into the SlapLance gameplay or just not use Gunlance for that specific fight
Excuse me while I write down your armor set up…
Great vid, definitely learned a lot.
I’ve been struggling against Alatreon and World’s raid bosses so I’m taking every bit of advice I can.
My own build is what I call thr “tank hammer”. A looot of defensive skills, earplugs, along with little things to help me hit harder.
Alatreon is…well it’s a dps check. I don’t like Safi, I hate the small timer and I know “ha-ha, git gud” no.
I’m not going anywhere near safi.
Instead I’m gonna try. Key word “TRY” to make a more offensive build. I have the elemental hammers, I just need to make the armor…and get lucky with decoration drops.
This monster and the raid ones made me give up on world back when they first came out.
But, it’s my new goal until Wilds releases.
It’s probably never gonna happen for a casual player like me haha.
This is a great solution to the problem of Alatreon.
The fight ouside of escaton is indeed quite well created. But i always say the fight is designed poorly BECAUSE of escaton.
Hopefully they learned their lesson and wont make the same mistake in Wilds. Along with many other mistakes world had like RNG decorations and siege monsters with no realistic singeplayer difficulty..
My issue with escaton, is that for weapons like lance (what I main) are rewarded for playing very defensively aggressive the entire game up until you have to fight this monster with an attack that you cannot be defensive against. There is nothing that a lance can do to deal with it that other weapons not only can not only do, but do better than lance. I hope going forward they take things like this into account.
From the outside looking in, my gripe with Alatreon's elemental weakness is that while Alatreon can more or less freely change its element, _you cannot._ As a Blademaster, you are locked into the single element of your weapon. Even as a Gunner, you might not actually have access to more than one elemental ammunition. If you don't have a second hunter with an opposed element to fill in for one you're lacking (which _by definition_ occurs when hunting solo), then depending on the timing of Alatreon's specific phases (vs. the timing of Eschaton Judgement) you are going to have a bad time because you lack the intended ability to interact with Alatreon's mechanics.
The 90 seconds of a really aggresive dragon is basically Primordial Malzeno's last phase
There's a turtling strat against Malzeno though, but as far as I know it's limited to insect glaive. Insect glaive's insect can really easily do the elemental dmg check, and the damage the insect does isn't affected by much, it's mostly just the buff you give it with slinger's ammo and you can evade almost everything while attacking with the insect, while also stacking every defensive skill you can in your set
Don't wanna break horns? You can also use a dragon element insect. If you're playing solo it doesn't matter much anyway, before you cart 3 times you can easily kill it using fire/ice anyway
probably one of my favorite moments was when I was trying switch axe for the first time in iceborne, noticed I could get mounts pretty easily, realised how powerful the mount finisher was, and made a "flying switch axe" build complete with stuff like focus, power prolonger, glider mantle, airborne, and tool specialist. You only do two things for the entire fight: Jumping attacks(mostly assisted with glider mantle) and clutch claw ZSD. That's it. Took out raging brachy in like 15 minutes with an unoptimized version of the build.
You have earned a new sub from this video. Excellent take on the subject and solution that would make an awesome fight even better.
While I love the Alatreon fight, I just wish there was an Ingame tutorial before fighting him.
This is an amazing video for the mindset of playing Monster Hunter. Well done. I'll be showing this to friends of who don't quite understand this way of thinking.
I think the problem with this fight is not the fight itself at all, i think its perfect, being able to quazi choose which element he starts in if u want to use fire or ice, technically being able to take dragon for both, eschaton judgment is both beautiful and quite easy to deal with with how much element damage his forearms take, and him having 2 dps checks in eschaton and the horn is very cool and unique. The issue of why people find it hard is that mh world specifically is balanced around raw dmg, and weather you go through the game solo and figure it all out yourself or rigorously scour youtube for help you will learn that compared to raw element sucks 9times out of 10 so getting all the way to end game with high raw and possible blast or paralysis you feel like you can do anything and the solution to any problem is just play better, block better, dodge better, do more dps, playing with element is just alot harder because it requires more to build into it like instead of just stcking attack and crit you also have to do element dmg skills, and unless you already have fatalis gear it gets harder build both and just running element does not give as much dmg numbers and attack so most people just ignore it, and then alatreon comes around forcing you to not only make a fresh build but also play it much riskier because you are either forced to run less survival skills or less dps skills with either runs the risk of dying to attacks or failing to timer/eschaton . The point im trying to make is in mhworld element feels weak even though it may not be , it FEELS weak thus the build in general feels worse and its really hard to learn new monsters or feel strong at all if your build is in your head as not great, thus i hope in wilds they do not get rid of this style of hunt and just balance raw and element better especially since with the swapping weapons mechanic would be the perfect time to release an alatreon style monster that tou cant stop from swapping elements so now you have to be ready for both…. Anyways neat video sorry for the small book
Here’s how I look at it. Proper preparations reward you by reducing the skill required to overcome a challenge. It is possible to avoid problems like wind and roars without having to prepare for them, with skill. Preperation is a supplement to skill, and that’s a good thing. It allows for a selective difficulty that you can tailor to both your skill, and the difficulty you want
Alatreon was so challenging when I first encountered it, I sent feedback to capcom. I wrote that Alatreon is too hard for LBG because it was not possible to carry enough elemental ammo to kill it. I would be forced to cart (because farcasters are blocked in this fight) just to restock in order to kill it. So I COULD beat it, it's just that I couldn't do it deathless. They replied back saying there would be no plans to adjust the fight. I later devised my own strategy: Bring a lbg that can shoot a greater variety of ammo. Lunastra's lbg, Soulfire Rasp Blaze, is the only lbg that can shoot fire and ice decently well. The plan was simple: shoot the opposite element. Then during dragon phase, shoot slicing ammo at the horns to conserve elemental ammo. If I am close to running out of elemental ammo, which will happen at least once, then don't break the horns and allow it to change elements. Then shoot my secondary element until it goes down. It worked well. Though it is a strategy that only the bowguns are capable of. Maybe something like this could happen for other weapons in Wilds.
As a gunlance main and nitro enjoyer, Alatreon was indeed hard to beat 💀
Listening to this video I think it explains a lot of why I adore Primal Malzeno, as well as Sunbreak in general, over Alatreon and this game. Mal is hard, but doesn't actively punish you for not playing the game a certain way, so even someone like me who averages 20 min hunts solo can clear it and have fun doing it! Alatreon, as well as the whole game due to the Clutch Claw mechanics, kinda make you do things a certain way, which requires a LOT more prep time. Needing to prep isn't bad as shown in this vid obviously, but it sucks to go out of your way for a *very* long time to go for something you wouldn't have considered before.
Now, being a super boss, there usually wouldn't be too much of an issue of going for specific intended strategies, were it not for the fact that this is Monster Hunter, and you're expected to do it multiple times over to get those sweet materials. Anything can be done once, but expecting that level of precise play over and over again can be really draining on someone.
I like how your build for fighting Rajang is my build for when I'm playing with a Bow.
Crossover with ratatoskr or third fleet when?
send this comment to them
Excellent video. I stand by the premise that Alatreon would be an absolutely fine boss for its position in the game if you just removed Escaton, but replacing Escaton with a phase is easily the best solution if the goal is to maintain that sort of punishing flow break.
I hate this fight SO much. His moves are easy to dodge and counter, but I have to change my playstyle and even weapon of choice the have any chance. It's not fun if I'm not playing the game the way I want. If Capcom wanted us to use those damn elemental sets they should have made them useful in the first place - and apparently it's the same for Wilds as well, so prepare yourselves for another horrible battle to fix a problem they possibly already created.
Well those are some bad takes. I want to know more tho. Like looking at a car crash and being unable to avert my eyes type shi. Like elaborate please
Honestly resurgence's crimson fatalis is the monster that finally made me work out how i want a set.. other than just heavy art for normal fatalis.. i was actually debating fireproof mantle
Honestly an immunity mantle, immunity cleanser, some immunizer, and popping an astera jerky works just as well. Pop an astera jerky for immediately saving your health; pop an immunizer before going in to have something that lasts; the immunity mantler and cleanser just make it to where you can ignore Vaal for the most part; but always keep a null berry to get rid of the affect when it procs.
Just an alternative for those who don't have gems.
Old school MH preparation mostly worked because we didn't have the skill bloat we have today. Even at end game, you had to make some tough choices about sacrificing DPS for survivability. It was the perpetual debate about Comfy vs. Meta builds, where meta was really just showing off and comfy was about finishing the fight with no carts and a couple of additional minutes run time. But it was still an interesting choice. You can largely ignore it entirely in the most recent games and go full meta with no issues.
Weird thing is that a lot of those skills are still in the game and we've even had a bunch more made even though the game has largely been moving away from that style of play. For instance, why is Wallrunner a thing in Rise? Monsters rarely move near walls so you don't get much if any utility in a fight. They've made it so that village farming is so lucrative that you almost never need to go on an expedition just to find materials. And fast travel is a thing once you unlock additional camps so it's always faster to chase a monster by warping than running. It's a skill that exists for some hypothetical game that has hypothetical challenges which aren't in the game we're playing. It's like the design team don't seem to recognize that they've been paring the game down to a "kill the monster as fast as possible" type of game which has little to no use for fluff skills.
As to Alatreon, once you start utilizing the massive utility that is clutch claw into wall bang, the fights biggest problem is that it becomes so predictable that it stops feeling like a monster that makes unpredictable decisions and starts feeling like a clockwork diorama. It's interesting to see the cycle the first couple of times but after that it's boring and you never want to look at it again because it's going to be the same every time.
"Vaal Hazak was one of my favourite elder dragons in World"
Somehow didn't know about effluvia resist until fighting the Arch Tempered version. Did you not check the armor set of your favorite monster?
Now that you mention it, the solution you suggested is one that I've already seen in a game before: Terraria.
In Terraria, a lot of the bosses has a specific condition that needs to be met in order to fight them, usually that it's nighttime or that you are within a certain biome. When this condition is broken while the battle is still on-going the boss will usually either just leave, or it will enter an enraged state where its attacks are faster, deal more damage and are generally just unfair. It is meant to be a punishment for not killing the boss fast enough or for taking the fight too far away from the designated battle location. Yet this feature is actually well-received by the player base. A lot of people even enjoy taking on these bosses in their enraged state on purpose, and some even have unique drops that can only be acquired by defeating their enraged state.
Another great video
Charge Blade main here, I definitely have several armor sets with primarily evasion up, marathon, defense, and crit/attack. I spent hours on Icebrone (I wish I could port over my PS4 save to Steam 😢) with a specific core decoration/charm set.
It worked so well up until Alatreon, I quit World without being able to beat the horrid mechanic since it absolutely makes Charge Blade basically useless, and I couldn't figure out a build that worked to beat it in the time limit.
But either way, I still absolutley LOVE this game because of all the prep and learning behind it. I love this video so much.
I’m sorry I couldn’t hear you over the sound of my Weakness Exploit, Critical Boost, Attack Up aaaaaaand I carted
As a GS super main, this fight made me cry. Element sucks for GS and I was forced to completely change my heavy hitting playstyle into a full draw attack ice build with frostcraft to even have a chance. Then the horns break at a bad time, now I have to restart. So here I am searching through SOSs to hopfully find a dual blades team to carry me to the promised land of victory. Thank you for the carry DB mains. I'll carry you against Fatalis when my wombo combo hits for 2700+ with full partbreaker.
GS is actually a pretty good matchup against alatreon, since its high partbreaker value counts towards toppling alatreon. Plus frostcraft crit draw hit and run playstyle is one of the easiest playstyle against both alatreon and fatalis since you arent reliant on tenderizing. My advice is to hit his forelegs during fire/ice phase or until he topples, then go for head during dragon phase. If you still need the SOS help, im happy to help you out too
Alatreon is my favorite fight in world. I hope he comes back in wilds.
I dont agree on remuve escaton , I want both 😈
The worst part about Escaton Judgment is that it becomes significantly more dangerous in multiplayer. Unless you're with four people and all of you put down a health booster and spam Astera Jerky (something that doesn't realistically happen when playing with randoms, obviously), all four of you *will* die. It makes it so abandoning the quest is the objectively better thing to do, because it not only saves time but atleast saves one cart of the four 🥲
You did cook with that alternate phase idea in my opinion. You also reminded me that I've never actually beaten Alatreon solo (atleast as far as I can remember), so I might actually get around to that now before Wilds releases. Thanks for that!
alatreon was the tipping point where my entire friends group stopped playing, it was our first monster hunter game since it was the first one on pc and i alone managed to solo him after at least 50 tries, it was a gruesome encounter and i hated everthing about it because up until that point, for the vast majority of fights you could play very casually and still beat the monsters or be alternatively rewarded, like safijiva or kulve, but seeing absolutely no progress over weeks of playtime is a death sentence for casual players, i tried fatalis but he is just the same, except that instead of a dps check he just outright kills you since armor doesnt fucking do anything in this game aside from offensive buffs, i can only hope wilds will adress these flaws because my friends group really wants to give monster hunter another shot but iceborne left them very demoralised
I think Alatreon is the best fight in MHWI. If it wasn’t for Escaton Judgment and Escaton Judgement alone Alatreon is the fairest fight hands down. Incredibly well balanced fight.
Great idea for Alatreon, I've been doing some Alatreon practice recently and have 455 Alatreon hunted as for now. The biggest issue of Alatreon fight is everything is a countdown, so if I join the quest at the beginning I'm confident to deal enough elemental damage for 3 people, but join in Alatreon SOS quest is like buying lottery, sometimes after 2 miuntues in the quest Alatreon starts his super nova and everyone carted.
As a heavy bowgun player i have an simple example of this with fatalis.
I like playing solo but because of that fatalis is partically impossible on heavybowgun without smokebomb spam.
Im glad fatalis is susceptible to smoke bombs and there really helpful.
But the problem comes in with the timer as only having 30 minutes takes the smoke bombs from a neat thing to use and prep for into a necessity and only way to reasonably beat him with this weapon as you just wouldnt have enough openings on heavybowgun specifically even with full evade window and evade up trust me ive tried i could live and get some hits in just not enough.
Ive beaten fatalis but thats with greatsword as i had much more fun prep options such as going crit draw and do safe openings i knew or build to full charge every attack and really learn fatalis moves.
As a New Hunting Horn player i love maxing Earplugs. " i cant hear you over the sound of my awesome music"
Great video, you make valid points. However next time I’d recommend trying different weapons, for example you’d be surprised how different Alatreon are for Lance and Charge Blade. Not only does your planning change, you straight up can’t guard for most of the fight for a meaningful interaction.
It’s more on stubbornness on my case. I got stuck on furious rajang for a long time because I refused to change my critical longsword build. Until one day it just clicked. The perfect no cart run, using the same build as before.
I do like the spectacle aspect of Escaton Judgement, but not reaching the elemental check in multiplayer just lost you the hunt instantly, which in my opinion was kinda dumb.
It's only a "forgotten" mechanic if you're Low Rank or struggling through High Rank without doing it. Viper Tobi-Kadachi filters you pretty hard if you're not optimizing your pre-hunt preparation. As for Alatreon, yes there is "one way" to do it (elemental) but figuring that out takes trial and error and though we now live in a time where one can consult a guide online it's still a challenge for someone at that stage of the game to really think about their build.
you idea has one flaw... and it is a forgotten mechanic too!!
if your sheath your weapon, then you can run and superman dive. running is almost fast as dodging with a weapon and superman dive is completely invulnerable.
when you have your weapon sheathed you are essentially able to completely avoid ANY monster. and it is actually rather easy to do
If you really afraid of Furious Rajang, gave that monkey the Admiral Skin. No more afraid, only annoyed.
The issue, imho, stems from the fact that the outcome of many super attacks in modern MonHun are binary.
Either you do it right, exactly right and specifically in the way it was intended to be done right, or you die.
Super attacks in the past were dangerous, with oneshot potential even, but none were ever so cut and dry. There was always wiggle room, always one way to avoid death, through various means (even if its a farcaster back to base).
From World onwards, that does not happen anymore. As far as i can tell, they decided to focus on spectacle with these attacks, and to do so its now much more scripted, in a way that leaves a lot to be desired in terms of gamedesign allowing for player expression.
To be honest, I do still think escaton is bad and DPS Checks that outright kill you are still antithetical to what monster hunter is about. That being said, all the other DPS checks in this game don't outright kill you and I have no problems with them. Yes, you have to break fatalis' head or the fight is gonna get really hard, but it's not mandatory. You can survive without breaking the head. The game hands you a problem and it's up to you to figure out a solution.
It's why I like playing insect glaive against fatalis so much as an example. I chose insect glaive because fatalis has a ton of dangerous moves like the cone breath that will basically kill you if you get caught. Your options are tanking/guarding it or repositioning. With insect glaive I can vault as a reaction and safely stall in the air or make it out of the cone if I wasn't positioned correctly. With escaton judgment it's just: "you didn't play how we wanted you to, prepare to die"
I've also heard another preparation strategy used to take down the Alatreon was to bring a third monitor. It's apparently so effective, you can beat him blindfolded.