Im literaly veteran who skip world dude 😂😂 am i not veteran enough play MH since 2008 fu.play world yesterday with my friend he though nergigante is so hard man i play world the first and beat nergi in 1st try too haha
As a noob i se the old games as a more grindy,harder and more tecnical but world more do waht u want and fuck around tho i have not played taht much of the old games
@@-LAHTbf to say that Longsword is an offender is like saying that Iframes are just taking attacks and being able to attack immediately after. Longsword is more like an Iframe
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 yes, pickaxes, bug nets, and you had several tiers ( bad to good). Even so all of them had a chance to break so you could have times than even with 6 pickaxes you couldn't get more than 3 or 4 minerals bcs all of them break. Same with bug nets.
Rise and World are so mechanically different that they cater to different people. Thats one thing I like about Monster Hunter: Theres a Monster Hunter game for everyone.
@@robosergTV In Rise, you are able to ride your animal companion all around the map at will and during fights you are nimble and are able to pretty much jump around with lots of verticality using any weapon. In World, you are more grounded and slow, but as a result the environment and monsters feel enormous and each weapon has a more distinct identity since your mobility will depend on what kind of weapon you are using. The main difference between the games is basically mobility. After that, I guess its the move customization available in Rise, but again I still think that this only makes each weapon less distinguished from each other.
Having played the Monster Hunter games since I was a young teen back with Monster Hunter 1, I would consider myself a progressive veteran of the series. What I mean by this is that I like a lot of the quality of life changes that came with later games, especially World. I like the addition of farms to grow materials you need for potions and traps. I like that bug nets, pickaxes, fishing rods and such are infinite now. I like the materials pouch, where you store the things you gather or carve, so you can take more home with you. I even love the grapple claw and the changes to how many of the weapons functioned, like giving great sword and hammer the ability to charge attacks. I love the gunlance, switch axe and charge blade. I even like the more open maps in Rise. As for how people react to things like combat pacing and stuff, people need to remember. Monster Hunter is an entire world, not one settlement that's hunting monsters. Every settlement, every nation has different ways of hunting monsters. In MH1, you were just a guy that showed up to a village one day and started helping out. In Tri, you were requested to come and investigate strange earthquakes bothering a coastal village. In World, you're literally part of a huge commission. A big ass nation funded company of monster hunters, essentially, there to research and investigate the Elder Crossing. Hell, that even helps it make more sense that you're bringing your item box with you. You literally have a handler that COOKS FOR YOU at your camp. Of course you'd bring everything. They are your supply and logistics. They're your handler. YOUR handler. With Rise, you're part of a village with deep traditions. Wirebugs and palamutes are part of their culture. They raise their companions to help with their hunts. The wirebugs themselves promote faster and more flashy fighting. I imagine Wilds will also have its own take on the monster hunting culture and I look forward to it. If we had to compare the cultures, World has more of a Western feel to it while Rise has a distinctly Eastern feel. Not just from the gameplay perspective, but from a speculative geological perspective. After all, in our real world, is the culture of say Japan the same as Brazil? How about Canada and South Africa? Australia and Russia? The world of Monster Hunter is huge. We can expect big differences while still having some familiar things to feel nostalgic about.
While opinions may differ, some players argue that Monster Hunter games on older generations possess a certain charm and purity that is lacking in the newer iterations. The simplicity of mechanics and graphics in older Monster Hunter titles, such as Monster Hunter Freedom Unite or Monster Hunter Tri, allowed for a more focused and immersive gameplay experience. These games relied more on player skill and strategy rather than flashy visuals or complex systems. Additionally, the sense of community and camaraderie among players was stronger in older Monster Hunter titles, as they often required cooperation and communication to overcome challenges. The nostalgia factor also plays a significant role for many, as memories of their early adventures in the series hold a special place in their hearts. Overall, while newer Monster Hunter games offer advancements in technology and gameplay mechanics, some players find that the older titles hold a unique appeal that cannot be replicated.
@@vermoe9590my first MH was MH dos , I have grown with the series , even then , the changes with TRI and 4 had the same reaction, there's no special charm in the older generation games , they were good but most of the "charm" is hardware limitations, some people just like the smell of their own farts
I really really like your out look on this topic... An in all honesty makes a lot of sense.put that way... Just the saddening gripe is the wire bug. Made the game waaaaaaayyy too easy. An if your a vet here, I trust you enjoy a challenge. An is prob what kept you with this franchise as it has I for over 20years now
@@damonspang9508 true wirebugs are very op on a lot of weapons. I think it should be just about the wirebug skills of lance where it is not that op but is essential like twin vine, anchor rage or sheathing retreat and having some attack options which is good but not busted.
@@damonspang9508the wirebug and palamutes made the game too easy, but it was a lot of fun. That's why it makes for a great experimental feature in a side title rather than an inclusion in the mainline. I think of it the same as the weapon arts.
I do too, but they're not all hits. You NEED to have the environmentalist trappings to push a MonHun over the edge. As many have never played the PSP titles before, popping in the UMD, you see a blurb about "enjoying the beauty of nature in a world filled with monsters," and Rise did nothing with that premise at all. However, World was about making the entire game itself its own unique setting and character. To me, Rise should have been a comeback vehicle for Toukiden.
I love every Monster Hunter game because they are all unique and have their own vision and gameplay aspects. It's great that the MH dev team always want to try something new and keep the series fresh and exciting. I can't wait for Wilds and their take on another new Monster Hunter game.
You: "I am not exited for anything. PLEASE NOTICE ME MY WORDING IS SO SHARP, I AM COOL AND MYSTERIOUS, ALL THE GIRLS WANT ME. I PROMISE, PLEASE DONT LEAVE MEEEE! I DONT WANT TO BE UNREPLIED AND IGNORED NAURGHHGH!!!"@@GFKCEG Lmao. The last 2 games are some good content, doesent make us shills. *Just makes me interested in the next one.
It's definitely crazy to see how many people took sides without knowing the mainline/ portable cycle especially when learning that usually cooled them off
I clicked on this video purely to comment something like this. So many videos recently of "why are so many people flocking to World!?!?!?" well because World is a mainline release. It's bound to be a "higher" quality than portable, like Rise. There's also an abundance of people that are worried Wilds will be a "step back" like they thought Rise was. A shame how people aren't informed nowadays, especially when they could so easily inform themselves.
@@1brushstudio I dislike Rise because it feels lackluster when compared to World. If I think of it as a sequel to MHGU (as that's what it was originally, they began working on Rise on the 3DS first) then it's a damn good step up from what Gen and GU built. I can say without a doubt though that I'd prefer more releases like World and Wilds, but everyone would. Then we'd be getting huge breaks between releases. World released in 2018? 2019? 6-7 years between World and Wilds. Even with DLC, that's still about a 4-5 year gap. As much as I dislike the portable approach as well, I would definitely dislike huge release gaps more.
I recently started MH World and I'm loving the attention to detail on both monsters and natural environment, it all feels so alive. I might have been disappointed when trying MH Rise and finding out that it isn't as detailed as World on those aspects. Thanks to your vid now I understand the purpose and the focus of each game and i know that each one should be experienced with different expectations, with no prejudice and looking at them from a different perspective. Thanks a lot
So, I remember back in Monster Hunter Unite (psp series) on some maps there was a hot air balloon you could wave at and they'd tell you where the monster was. It wasn't tracked for long but it made the start of hunts faster IF you wanted to farm a specific monster a bunch or something. I think some form of tracking should always be included but I dont hate the scoutfly.
Honestly an easy solution to scout flies would be to just apply their mechanics to the palamute. Basically have the palamute act like a blood hound with less combat application but giving a more robust tracking system. If you choose palicos instead you get better combat capabilities but a more traditional mh tracking system with paintballs making a return. I see no reasons why both approaches can't co exist
I hate scoutflies. It turns learning the monster's places it is inclined to eat, rest, etc. into another follow the breadcrumbs game. Paintball imho is a great tracking system
@@mangckyatmamon Honestly, I'd agree with you if the missions didn't have a time limit. Like, if I have 15 minutes to track down and hunt a Rathalos that would take me 10+ minutes to kill in an arena without having to chase it around or getting downed, then I definitely don't want to deal with a complex tracking system. Otherwise it might be fun to genuinely track something down... until you're doing it for the 15th time trying to get that one drop you're missing that the game really doesn't want to give you.
As an OG player, I love Rise and MHW. Also, I love MH3 and Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP. The best thing is that they are all still playable in their own way. It's fun to go back and re-try them all. Their are things from every game that I love, and it really depends on my mood. When I play on the Switch, I LOVE the fast pace play of Rise and how mobile the character feels. I loved being able to mount and control monsters for a short period for extra damage. There is a lot that the game did RIGHT, which is why the experimentation of side games is so important for the series. For instance including a Palamute and Palicoe for solo players was great, I imagine this is something Wilds will try to incorporate. Also the swinging line bug system is AWESOME, it made traversal so much better and funner. It opened up fun exploration game play that took skill to find secret areas. It also made the locations feel like one large area instead of a series of spots and tunnels even though they still are, it felt like one big natural location. I'd say they should take the Palamute, at least a rudimentary version if bug swinging (even if its something else like swing rope or something), and the more fluid movements are also great. The combat was more engaging and fun, and the skill depth was deep. A skilled Glaive user could almost never touch the ground. However, it wasn't so steep that new players felt useless.
That's just it. Every Monster Hunter game, at least after the first few, seem to do their own thing. Not...completely, it's still the same gameplay loop, and the weapons that carry over between games tend to work generally the same each time. But at the same time, each game is different enough that you can kinda just start on whatever you want and it's fine. You think the slower paced and broken up map sounds fun? Play one of the OGs or MH4U or something. You wanna try a more modernized MH with some kind of plot and modern-looking graphics, and one big map instead of smaller chunks? Play World or Rise. Want a portable MH and don't have a Switch? Play one of the PSP ones. The only downside for me, is that I'm not NEW to MH, I've played most of them, buuuut I haven't played any one game a LOT. I've done a handful of hunts in each one, aside from the earliest PS2 games and stuff. So trying to figure out where I should actually start to give MH a proper try is a little hard to do when, if you ask the community, every single game in the series is both the best, and worst at the same time. Normally, I'd just jump in. Do a quick google search to find a game in the series I can start on that doesn't require playing the rest first, and just play. But in the case of Monster Hunter, I know it's a super long and grindy game, especially when you take into account DLC and stuff. I don't particularly want to start one up again, grind out a ton, only to realize it's not for me and I want to try a different one, or to find out the general consensus is that the one I started is ACTUALLY not very good compared to other options or something.
I'm just going to say I really like your take on this. MH is seems to be one of those games with repeatability(if the end game grind can be called that). you can always switch your style of play with weapons and it feels brand new. To think people want the same game over and over again just with updated graphics is insane. The new mechanics make it feel like the different areas the game take place have a different mind set on how they approach hunting. I'm mainly talking about rise and world though cause that's what I know.
Im the opposite - the mobility and quicker pace of combat is one of the main reasons I find Rise (and even world to an extent) so hard to get into. The entire reason I got interested in MH was exactly because it DIDN'T have fast paced, hack and slash combat, which i find boring as hell. That's why I played MH instead of Toukiden, Freedom Wars, Soul Sacrifice or God Eater. MH was the one series with slow, methodical combat and grounded, survival aspects that focused on the hunting.
I agree!! Each monster Hunter game has a completely different and unique feel, which is why I go back and play on my old saves all the time. Also I’m hoping that the bird-dino mount in Wilds is an upgraded version of a palamute, since it already looks like it is from the teaser trailer!
As someone who loves mh4u, the biggest thing modern monster hunter did right to me is modernizing the controls. I have always been a gunner player and it was a godsend to just fix how aiming worked in the new games. I could never fathom fighting rise monsters with the antiquated aiming from older games.
@@ronan5894 P3rd is also one of the best one, the gameplay and art direction were pristine ( to me its an improve TRI, no more underwater stuff and they put back fan favorite monster like Tigrex and the akantor/ukanlos). if it got a Grank i would probably considered it to be better than 4U and 3U. one thing that i hate about 4 is the art direction, for me its the ugliest monster hunter out there. yes even mh1 and dos are prettier. 3U i can't judge the game because no matter how many time i try to play it, i'm always bored to death, maybe because of the pacing of the game and underwater sure don't help.
I'm a HBG Rise player giving MHGU a try and I have to say I'm absolutely mortified with how utterly horrendous the gunner controls are. I have to find a suitable way to reconfigure the controls or I'm not going anywhere 😔
I'm one of those veterans, I prefer the simulation style of the old games. but as my responsibility increased along with my age, one failed expedition become a lot more frustrating then dying from furious rajang 10 times in a row
im a veteram but i like the phasing of world and rise, for sure i didnt miss the old playstile, maybe some aspects but in general im good with mh world and rise
I never noticed that distinction between mainline and portable titles, especially since Monster Hunter 4 and its portable counterpart were both on the 3DS, but I have been around since the ancient days of Monster Hunter Freedom, although I only really started playing with Freedom Unite. It brings me immens joy, to see new players joining the community, I feel like I AM the hunting veteran from world, who sits there, wondering if he should try the slingshot sometime. The guy even wears the armor from the Freedom Unite trailer. I definitly enjoy World more than Rise, but I also enjoyed FU just as much as Tri Ultimate and I am fine with them experimenting, as long as they always come back to the ecology focus. This game series has so many heartwarming components, be it the cozy feeling of the villages, the music, the cat kitchens or the greatfulness of the villagers, when you save them. But nothing compares to hunters getting together in the gathering hall, armwrestling, eating and drinking together and one gets up, swings his tankard around and retells the story of how Plesioth Hipcheck Hitbox was the most brutal thing in all of Monster Hunter. I love this game and its community and once MH Wilds is here, I hope I'll see a lot of you around, for another great hunt. :3
I enjoy more Rise than World but I love BOTH from the very bottom of my heart. I enjoyed ecology SO MUCH i'm FUCKNG EXCITED with Wilds for that reason. It's just a matter of preferences. But the truth here is theres no distinction in "portable" or "mainline" stuff. Basically "portable" means actual "portable" games, like MH PORTABLE to MH Portable 3rd. They're actually "mainline" being P3rd a direct sequel of Tri (MH 3 goes in a separate way). So "mainline" goes from MH to MH Rise and SOME of the titles are "portable". Others like Frontier would be "online" or Stories would be "spin-off". Every dolphin is a mammal, but not every mammal is a dolphin. As simple as that.
@@ArteGamingHQ that's not at all close to being true. Portable games are arcade only action heavily bent towards weeb Japanese theming. Mainline games are about thought, preparation, and pre historic theming
In Rise, the lore reason there is no tracking, and I think a lot of people miss, is that your Cohoot does it for you. In Rise at the start of every mission you send your Cohoot out, it flies in the sky and tracks the monsters for you, only really knowing the area the cohoot is flying over by revealing that part of the map yourselfer. Rise's hunters are overpowered not because they are strong , but because they have learned to live with and in tune with all the endemic life around them ( Felynes, caynes, Cohoots, wirebugs and even all the frogs, squids, beetles etc. in world you can only kick these endemic life, like the frogs, but the hunters of kamura have learned to pick them up safely to use when needed)
@@vast9467 which could be said the same for nearly any mechanic meant to resemble realism? our scoutflies dont actually find the monster its just an explanation for a decision they made. I feel like the relationship between cohoot and hunter was made pretty clear, i dont understand what you mean by made up?
@@vast9467 Its fine imo, the games serve different purposes. I view Rise as Monster Hunter Lite, something to jump into when you have short time. It's faster paced and more fluid, which is why it's perfect for the Switch. Monster Hunter World is something I play when I have a few hours to sink in, and I am at my PC.
World playin whipper snappers have no idea what it was like, back in my day we had to track a monster by throwing a paintball at it or get high on psychoserums.
@@MrSirFluffy It's also a rly good testing grounds for certain mechanics. A *_lot_* of people loved the AI Followers that did multiplayer's job better in the performance department (not so much in the "goofing off with friends" part, but ehh that's pretty much every multiplayer pve, they make any game feel better) The doggos and mobility were quite satisfying, since we have a rideable companion shown in the Wilds trailer and we had a test-taste of it with rideable Jagras in World) Switch Skills were a *_godsend_* and the utilization with wirebugs was so much better than Clutch Claws. Can't say I liked the Spiribirds but honestly its better than having to wonder in World during expedition *_"I just ate recently, why is my health near nonexistent to 1-shot range..."_*
I started with 3 Ultimate on Wii U. Since then I've played every title. The one I had the most fun with was definitely 4 Ultimate. In many aspects I find it to be quite the nice balance between all the factors mentioned here. It's not too slow but not as fast paced as Generations or Rise. It still has the current weapon roster (IG and CB were great additions imo). It has a large pool of monsters to draw from. Both naturalistic and fantastic. It has a coherent story but doesn't shy away from spectacle when appropriate. It rewards methodical planning but feels much less punishing than previous titles. And so on. While graphical fidelity etc. has obviously increased and it's great to see that the fanbase has expanded to the point that MH id a household name (I heard of it because a friend found japanese videos of MH3 on yt by chance) the recent titles have not quite captured me the same way MH4U has.
yeah, 4U was an amazing experience and the game that made me fall in love with the series. personally i believe it was the story and whacky characters that makes that game so special, who doesn't remember the caravaneer, the aces and guildmarm, and the game put them fron and center instead of shoving them to the side, also how amazing and colorful the game looks, world looks amazing but nothing will ever beat ancestral steppe for me, with the yellow grass, red rocks and the autummnal areas.
I had 3k hours between 2 characters. Probably one of the best endgames with lvl 140 quest. Relic weapons were a must have and is worth grinding Soo long for
Yeah, when Rise first came out I was mildly disappointed it wasn’t World 2, and that the story was basically not there for a while. But hey, still a fun monster Hunter game with cool environments! And I really like the wire bugs and the endemic life cage!
Yeah, I don't get it either. They're both fun games, I started out in Rise and moved on to World- and hey, I like the scoutflies and having to pick up a trail for whatever monster I'm hunting, but I also like the wirebug for movement and combat. I'm just here for the cool monsters and silly anime weapons.
You joined the MH series late right? This phenomenon is especially bad in this fandom. It isn't just rise vs world. Every single release has started a new MH died after x game group. Be it frontier, tri, 4u, gen etc etc. People would argue for hours on gamfaqs and other forums that new game is terrible. But i think you nailed what the different groups are usually looking for. But i dont think new people not knowing about the dev cycles caused this divide. Just because this was always the case.
…did you included Frontier, an mmo, just to inflate your list? Ffs. No, this isn’t an issue with this series. FU didnt get any backlash, and neither did 4U or GU. This is just a sad excuse parroted by those looking to dismiss people’s genuine criticisms of World and Rise. The only entry that actually got backlash was Tri, and that wasn’t just because “new = bad”, it was for real reasons. Tri’s roster was crippled due to an engine upgrade, and it included the very controversial underwater combat. People had genuine issues with it. And I say that as someone who started with Tri and love it to death. So let’s stop dismissing people’s problems with World/Rise because “people always do this with new MH games”, even tho they very much don’t.
@@CaptainEffort How is it inflating my list when I missed obvious choices like Freedom Unite or 3U, maybe even 2 to increase the list. I chose those games because they're the ones I've played and felt comfortable saying had arguments since I personally experienced it. Yes they have real problems. I never claimed they didn't. Personally I hate Rise. But monster Hunter will continue as it always has, no matter what I think of rise, or past people thought of mechanics they hated in the old games. The point of my comment wasn't dismissing issues, just disagreeing that these are new ones.
I chalk it down to that each village, kingdoms or group have their own stule of hunting monsters. In World, they're there as explorers which is why they have the clutchclaw and Scoutflies. To explore but then utilized them to hunt as well as can be seen in Iceborne. What was once a trekking tool has been utilized by hunters as a way to hunt after their years hunting in the New World. In Rise, Kamura village uses their surroundings to their advantage. The animals they found like Palamutes and the Owl are utilized into their hunting style where the Palamute serves as a way to traverse faster while the Owl is use to scout out the area and find the monster. They've also discovered Wirebugs which were then utilized into their hunting style. Each gane differ in style because the hunters in said games are hunting in the environments they are given. If they discovered that said thing that is unique to the locale can be used to enhance their hunting then they'd use it so much that it becomes standard and tradition. Going back to my example with World, they first used Clutch claws as a way of traversal so hunters that joined during thst time also did that. By the time of Iceborne, they've discovered that they can use Clutch claw in hunting which then there's a tutorial in teaching how to do that which then becomes standard even to newcomers.
World would literally be the perfect game if the multiplayer was seamless and easy. Unfortunately playing the games start to finish in multiplayer with someone is a terrible freaking nightmare because you have to leave quests and rejoin them all the time because can't come decided that you have to watch cutscenes before you can actually play with someone.
You forgot one group! The one that has played and loved every single entry since the OG and is grateful af that we get to have an IP that is as consistently fun and fresh as this! ...I’m in this group, btw. lol I hope Capcom continues this alternating pattern for years to come! Having two delicious flavors of MH to munch on is a blessing!
I'm almost in the same group except I didn't like World. But not for the reasons one might think. I have a very bad sense of direction. World's hub is too large and confusing for me. Let alone the map layout and thick environment designs. I really tried but I just can't. I also hate underwater combat in general(so I skipped 3U). It gives me headaches. I won't call it bad game design. It's just not for me.
@@njmontano1625 same, i love world though but im really bad at remembering or recognizing location. it took me 3 years to actually fully remember my route to highschool lmao
I personally like both styles. My main issues with World were the restrictions on co-op, with players having to "see" monsters before calling in help, and the fact it has terrible performance issues. I can see the arguments for the QoL changes. It does feel like busy work having to find whetstone or find each and every individual plant or stone, but making it so easy to acquire also stramlined it far too much. I'm just glad they aren't being restricted to PSP/3DS and we can finally play on PC after all these years.
I started with World and Rise and loved those games but I went back and played MH4U and ended up loving it even more than World and Rise. It's the same series of games but they vary so much it's almost hard to compare them.
It always makes me happy, as someone who started earlier in the series, to see people who started in world/rise go back and play a game that they consider old, and get a little nostalgic because I remember when that game wasn't even out yet. I'm glad you like it, it's my favorite too :)
First half of the video was kinda slow but very informative, but I gotta say the second half of the video was amazing, you beautifully put into words everything I feel about the existance of World and Rise. The whole division among the different types of fans and how expactations + nostalgia can be a problem, very interesting. It is pretty much a case study for many types of videogame franchises, and even movie franchises and etc.
I am in the camp of "being 100% sure before hunting" because it does actually feel like we're hunting, mid maxing is fun and all, but i actually do like the story and experience of "hunting" a monster, that being sais GU still stuck a middle group that i am happy with which is why MH GU is still my favourite
Generations Ultimate? How actually is it compared to the rest? I got a Switch only recently, and started Rise, but I saw that Generations Ultimate was on the Switch too, but googling, most people said to just go with Rise over GU. So I went with Rise.
@@TXFDA if you're new to mh id definitely start with another title but if you're looking for a lot of mh content gu is the perfect game for that as long as you dont mind the old systems such as zones and lack of access to all your items from the tent etc
@@TXFDA mhgu waa my first game and will definitely be hard at first but once you get this game you get the other games Definitely get it on sale as these games are always on sale Just know your going old school with this one Your not gonna be coddled as much as rise or world and i wont spoil it for you
The heart and Souls of Monsters Hunter is in its grounded fantasy or semi realism and the devs know that. I wouldn’t mind if this was the only design philosophy still moving forward because that is what I enjoy the most, but I also enjoy the less realistic and faster pace Ichinose-style. To me they are just appetizers while I wait for the mainline entries and they do a pretty good job at that. As long as they keep making MH, I’ll be there no matter what. I hope that now the new fans also realize after Wilds that there’s room for both design philosophies in the franchise.
I belive you mean the heart of the Monster Hunter games and the "Souls" copy paste games that stole over 70% of the identity and core mechanics of MH since birth
As an Oldschool vet, World did a lot of good for the series, but much as the video says, I don't think it was all quality of life. I do like that skills and armor changes have reduced the complexity of assembling an armor set fit for purpose, however it removed depth of armor combinations that I will miss. I love the way that gathering has been changed, the bounties system and removal of managing gathering tools has removed a bunch of grunt work that used to take up a lot of time; it used to be that you'd basically stop taking these things with you once the hunts got difficult enough, and just go on dedicated gathering missions anyway. The auto-crafting on-pickup is a nice change. The access to the weapon box is really cool on expeditions, but it undermines the difficulty of multi-monster hunts in the end game so I'm less of a fan there. The changes to item use animations make a lot of sense now that you cant just pop over to the next area to use your item safely, but the overall removal of a lot of the intentionality and commitment to what you're doing is a bummer for me. I love things like the melder which adds a safety net to the RNG of the game. I love the extra environmental interactions, it makes the battlefield feel alive and in a way, more improvisational. In my opinion the scoutflies feel a little too strong, but I don't really miss paintballing the monster at the start of every engagement so I'd still take scoutflies over the alternative. Overall the worlds format is pretty great, but I do wish they'd make the weapons more visually appealing and varied, and turn up the difficulty and commitment a bit.
I started with MHFU and skipped all games until World, I think it's great to have two "sub-franchises": The World/Wilds more realistic approach, and the GU/Rise more fantasy approach. I'm fine with them alternating those between releases
I remember watching the Monster Hunter (PS2) E3 2003 trailer on Xplay and being blown away. It was the first time I ever preordered a game. One thing about that trailer was that it made the game seem much more open-world than it ended up being. While I did love the game, I always wished for the franchise to be that expanded world I envisioned back then. World was a huge step towards that dream coming true, and I want them to continue on that path.
Your sort of getting close to The Witcher 3 at that point aren't you? A game where you decide what creature to hunt down, make special preparations (potions, poisons, Quen, equipment) then take it out and return to the locals as you move along your journey. I guess Monster Hunter would cut out all the dialogue and hard decision making. But it sounds like you have a version of what you want already.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 The Witcher 3 isn't my dream game for a few reasons. First, it's designed to be a predominately cinematic experience. Thus, all of the major encounters are heavily scripted events. Second, the world is set a relatively grounded grimdark medieval setting with folklore monsters. While cool, it is a far cry from the primal fantasy world of Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter's world has always been full of ecological and geographic marvels that are visually and mechanically engaging. Lastly, The Witcher 3's combat isn't good.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 But Witcher 3 ain't a game focused on Monster Hunting and the combat is kinda ass. You do kill monsters, but there is no hunt. You can play through the entire game without actively hunting monsters.
This is one of the few series where you can look at two different games, thinking that they will be the same experience, and then realize that each one has its strenghts and flaws. You can like all games for different reason, may it be the slower combat of the old games, the underwater combat of Tri, the Frenzy/Apex mechanic in 4U, the Styles in Generations, the ecology and sense of realism of World or the fast pace of Rise. Having two teams that alternate themselves on releases is one of the best thing that could happen to this series, because it can lead to big experimentation being quickly implemented from one game to the other, like many of the moveset changes in World took inspiration from certain styles or arts in Generations, and Rise discarded many "old world" characteristic such as the different zones in the map after World changed many things, and personally I can already think that Wilds will take inspiration from certain things from Rise, such as the mount or the speculated ability to change weapon when mounting (you can see the Light Bowgun on the side of the mount) being in a way inspired by the Switch Skill Swap I really don't get the "World vs Rise" conflict, with both sides discarding the other game for being "worse", "not real MH" or "more boring"
I started Monster Hunter on PS2 (online) back when all it had for advertisement was a page in a magazine. I love different things about all of the games and I'm so happy to see Monster Hunter gain the success it has without really suffering from that success. Such a thing is rare these days when AAA gaming is in such a laughable state. I'm grateful for what we have. Great video!
Same, it was the first game I played Online on the PS2 when you had to buy that network adapter add on! Good times in the gathering hub. Lance and HBG main back then :)
This video was really interesting to see, although I only understood half of these things fully. It was sent to me a few days ago from a friend of mine who has much more experience in the MH series than me and I only tried out Rise a little and never really interacted much with it in any way, as such I wasn't even aware until now that there was a difference between mainline and portable titles, as you mentioned. Additionally I was a little confused that a fair amount of the actually finding the monster and hunting them were just not present while I had them be mentioned by two friends of mine. It just was really helpful in one way or another to me and made me get like a better idea of what might be in mh games, so thanks!
Rat, I appreciate you staying impartial in this discussion and giving good arguments for both sides. It’s very refreshing to see someone willing to look at both sides of the coin especially in a debate like this
That Tzitzi detail is really cool. Too bad it literally never came into play because by the time the hunt moved to its home turf, it's head was already broken so it couldn't flash...
Bro, you're telling me TziTzi NEVER wandered into a fight you were having at an inopportune time to flash you & the monster you were fighting? 😂 You couldn't have done that much hunting in the Coral Highlands then! Then again, I put 3000 hours into MHW + Iceborne, so I definitely saw a lot of things most casual players haven't.
@@Secret_Takodachi That's...not what I'm saying at all. Although, in my experience, Tzitzi is a welcome ally any time he shows up while I'm hunting something else, so that's also not entirely incorrect. Do any other monsters even go to Tzitzi's home turf?
Gen 1 hunter checking in. I definitely prefer a lot of what World did, and enjoy when the series leans more to ecology/realism. The old style of game definitely has elements worth keeping, but there's also plenty of streamlining World brought that was good. Iceborne maybe went a tad too far with clutch claw and mounts, but overall base World did a lot right, although maybe easing back on access to healing in some form or fashion could be nice. My hope with Wilds is that we'll see a mix of the old and new. I'd like to see towns, to act as our overall out of quest hubs. Camps/outposts to act as reset points between hunts. And then some form of portable camping setup with hopefully some level of limited storage/inventory that would be on our mount. This could encourage going out for stretches, hunts, with limited tools, but still some access. Resetting between at outposts to resupply, and then eventually heading back to town when done. Maybe taking on multiple quests to be complete in-between returning, adding in elements of exploration and survival out in the wilds, etc...
Mounts. ALWAYS. Ruin games. No. I don't want to play a game where I drive a fantasy car. I'd rather walk. Clutch claw made me uninstall. Ruined the base game. Still fucking angry about that.
@@TrickZ_Retz I have fought without the claw. That's how I fought before Iceborne and how I fought before I got used to using the claw. I like it personally. The claw attacks look cool and I like that wall bangs enable consistent damage and knockdowns.
I love your idea of going on long journeys involving several hunts. I think it could be an interesting change to the original fight/ base/ upgrade weapons loop. I know they probably made it work the way it does for a reason, but I do like the idea of going on a bit more of a journey.
Great video, very well articulated and good dichotomies in the community to discuss. I personally started in Generation 4 with MH4U and had an absolute blast primarily due to what you discussed regarding the grounded feeling of the sim aspect. I loved that if you're going to go out on a big hunt you had to spend 30-45 minutes getting all your equipment and items, then methodically make your way through the zones to where you thought the monster would be based on it's phenotype and the area's ecology. I loved that feeling fighting a monster, then drinking your last mega potion and having to flee into the undergrowth to scrabble together some more herbs and honey or you'd die. I loved that if you underprepared you paid the price of 30 wasted minutes with no rewards and learned your lesson (or didn't if you were like me for the first few hours). I'm aware that to many MH fans, me starting in the 4th generation still makes me a relative newcomer and that MH4U still had plenty of changes that true old hunters didn't appreciate at the time either. I do really enjoy World specifically due to how grounded movement still feels and the knockout job they did with the environments, but still lament the loss of those more in-depth sim aspects. I am sad that now if you run out of supplies, no worries, you can just nip back to camp and restock everything. It's still a bit upsetting to me that now you can jump into a quest immediately with no preparation of your equipment and simply change it 10 minutes in when you realize you should have brought something else. It somewhat reduces the respect you have for the monsters when you don't have to put any of that deliberate planning into taking them down and makes it more video game-y and less like an actual hunt. All that said, I still love World because despite my opinions on these changes from the old formula, those exact changes are what made the game accessible enough that many of my friends that had bounced off earlier titles were able to finally click with the franchise! Despite my gripes I still put over 800 hours into the title so those changes clearly weren't enough to make me bounce off. Obviously based on the above I didn't love Rise because it went even further from the old formula but I didn't hate it by any stretch. I found the high mobility from wirebugs eliminated the positioning requirements and pacing that even World still required to some point, the wirebug moves felt generally overtuned, and the spiritbird collecting felt like an arbitrary, game-y form of preparation that felt tedious after just a few hours. Despite all that, I still found it to be a simple, easy, fun, and flashy 20 hour experience that I enjoyed quite a bit, but didn't enjoy enough to purchase Sunbreak and that's fine. Not every game in a franchise should be the same or there would be no reason to make new ones. I'm glad the Monster Hunter team is still willing to take risks and experiment on new gameplay mechanics to see what works and what doesn't. I can confirm though that out of those friends that finally got into Monster Hunter via World all bounced off of Rise for feeling like it was too floaty, easy, and not grounded enough, and they speak about it with some amount of venom. I still find that amusing coming from the older games and feeling some of those feelings about World. Ultimately I'm very much looking forward to Wilds and am still excited to give the following Generation 6 portable title a go as well and see where they go with it. Monster Hunter is Monster Hunter and the old titles will always be there to kick my ass and make me appreciate both their designs and some of the QoL elements added in later titles.
As someone who started with World, I do definitely understand the want to remove the technically infinite restocking at camps, but at the same time I think we could instead have a happy mid point where maybe we could have the Camp box have a limit to it, so you have to actually pick what to have available for restock at camps with a limit on how many items can be in the box rather than having your whole inventory available.
I think they should only allow you to restock once, where guiding lands should be infinite since you dont have to return until you are done and want to get your rewards. But for mainline missions and optionals Yeah, whats the point of being prepared if all you have to do is farcast out in a pinch after running through all your max pots, ancient pills and max pills within the first 5 minutes. you should be punished for having to do that in the first place.
That's literally how the old campbox worked. In low rank you would get a set of supplies, healing items, stamina restorers, ammo, and even throwables that the monster was weak to, in HR this just turned to healing items and stamina restoration items. In G rank you got nothing. In 4 and the Cross games you actually had subquests that would get an additional fill of these items, like if you killed a number of smaller monsters, or if you knocked over a large monsters once or twice or broke a part.
or just not. world would have been perfect to put greater emphasis on being in touch with the land and gathering your own supplies while out on a long hunt.
I think the proper fix to this would be to remove the ancient tree mechanic and all the other stuff that just gives you infinite supplies, I think it would be better if you actually had to go exploration to collect materials for a hard hunt and then you would think twice about just spamming your items and only use them when you really needed them. I know in the modern era most people would react violently to a change like this but personally I think it adds a lot to the game, they would need to make it so you do gather stuff a bit faster probably but I despise how the ancient tree and other mechanics make it so you have virtually infinite of every item.
As someone who loves both older games and newer ones in the series, I think a healthy mix of things from both would be great. For example, I loved how older gens made you really think about how you approached a hunt, and not every loadout would help you in every situation. Sunbreak is my favorite in terms of gameplay, but I feel like for the next game, we should start leaning away from relying on strictly the hunter's moveset. It doesn't matter which monster you're fighting, Strongarm Stance will carry in every hunt in the whole game, to give an example. I miss when your strategy revolved around the items in your bag and the terrain around you during the hunt. MH4U was my first MH game. I once batted a Velocidrome so far into the air that it got stuck in the overbrush, and I had to climb up and spike it back down to earth. I want people to be able to experience moments like that again.
I despise the ancient tree, and the hunts and all that stuff that give you infinite resources, I want to actually go on an exploration to prepare my supplies for a hard hunt not just have virtually infinite of everything.
Bru, who is going back to the camp to restock? The feature is for if you forgot to bring something, forgot to eat or forgot to change equipment, so you don't need to waste time going back to the hub world and starting the mission over. And by the the way most of the time the reason of failure is not running out of health potions.
As a veteran from Freedom Unite/Tri, I do miss the "come prepared beforehand" aspect of the older titles, and wouldn't mind a little bit of that coming back into the franchise, like a limited amount of supplies at camp. I definitely understand where people are coming from, that this "everyone gets a counter" mindset should stay in the arcade-like titles. But in all honesty, I love both sides of the franchise and regardless of what side any title leans towards, I'm going to play the fuck out of the game.
I also played since FU and liked that aspect too but I have enjoyed to see where the franchise is headed. I have little to complain and always viewed MHW as a natural progression for the series. I personally think that something that MH could gain from in Wilds would be perhaps a revision on underwater combat and ecology as that adds more to the realism.
Yeah let’s have maps where your health just constantly drains unless you farm a bunch of special little drinks so you can pound one ever 2 minutes during the fight and also if you forget them you’re just fucked and have to abandon the hunt. That would really help me get more immersed in the world.
By the time Monster Hunter really hit its stride as a series I had mostly stopped playing console games. World was my first exposure to the series after waiting over a year for a PC port. Then Rise came along and I had to wait again for it to be ported from Switch. The part that excites me the most about Wilds is I don't have to wait for a port. PC sales of Capcom games have proven to be very good in recent years so it's just going to release on all modern platforms, hopefully that also means crossplay so friends don't have to figure out which version to get to play with each other.
You nailed this one. I started with MH3U and basically loved every game until World, which had a large number of changes I was either mixed and neutral on or outright thought made the game experience worse. From the basic graphical design, lighting, changes to weapon movesets, multiplayer structure, the slinger and clutch claw, mantles, daily and weekly bounties, time limited events, the smaller number of monsters in the base game that also felt a lot more similar to each other, and so on, there were really a lot of things that felt like they were taking away from what I liked about the older games. Thankfully they did address a number of my issues in Iceborne. Rise was a return to form in a lot of ways and that made me much more immediately positive on it, even though I ended up playing it for a lot less time because I spent a lot of time playing World with friends and my friends didn't get into Rise as much. Still looking forward to Wilds!
Basically everything you're saying World fans feared about Rise representing the future direction for the series, I felt with World. It made so many changes I disliked that I thought "well, if the future games go even more in this direction, I don't know if I'm interested anymore".
Graphical design and lighting, what? I get being mixed on some changes, but acting like World's graphics, world design, lighting, etc, are anything but an improvement from older series is just silly.
@@Zayl1016i think he's referring to the more "generic ps4/Xbox graphic style" of world, to which i agree to some extent, but still think that MH as a whole should be a bridge between the "realism" and "flashiness," reason that made me like Risebreak, and has me hyped for Wilds.
@@Zayl1016 Idk about lighting, but as an old fan myself I agree with the "graphical design" and being very specific all the sparkles everywhere, old games didn't have any lights that weren't electricity or flames, while starting on World there's so many flashy lights it just comes as ugly but I have to be clear this is purely a personal preference thing To be even more specific the scoutflies don't look like something "Monster Hunter-y" and they look too much alike like other similar features found in other games specially for the PS4, Hitting a monster with your weapon didn't result in flashes but in blood and collectable items didn't have a light to them they blended with the environment perfectly tho this last one was a necessary change just from the environment having so much more detail
The mobility options offered in Rise were so transcendental to my enjoyment of the game that I'm genuinely bummed for an hour or two every time I go back to World. I love being able to ride the Palamute to quickly transverse the map. I love being able to do flying ninja shit with the wirebugs. I love being able to do spectacular wirebug moves. But on the same token, I'm bummed, coming from World to Rise, about how much more barren the levels are. World is so much more "alive", and I feel like I find something new or beautiful in every stage every time I go on an expedition. I like that I don't automatically just know where every monster is on the map as soon as I load in, and I have to actually find evidence of where the monster has been before I can work out where it's going. The Graphical Fidelity is also amazing. It's just a beautiful game. Both have so much to offer, but if I only had one to play for the rest of my life (and thankfully that's not true), It'd be World.
This topic has a lot of nuance behind it and it's pretty interesting to talk about. One thing I noticed is that the Western MH community was mostly created around the portable series, before World MH fans mostly played FU 3U 4U and Gen, and even with 3U and 4U being mainlines they took a lot from the portable games because they were 3DS titles, 3U even feels more like a sequel to P3rd than a sequel to Tri sometimes. So when World came and tried to return to the feel of MH1-3, a lot of people at the time actually thought it was too different and "didn't look or felt like MH". Rise was at first seen as a "return to form" too when it was coming out. I think that's also the reason why all these gameplay changes were named "quality of life" since everyone was focusing on the gameplay loop of just hunting monsters that we had with portable entries. There's a lot more I want to talk about but this comment is big enough as is so I'm stopping here, but as I said it's a really interesting topic.
I agree. I didn’t really know that there was a schism in MH design philosophy until I watched this video. Its made me examine my own relationship with the various games in the series in a way I have not done before
Also don't forget for the western world it is harder to making a destinction between the psp portable versions because as you said 3 and 4 were on portable devices but between 3 and 4 there was no portable version (Freedom) release either and when that line came back the named it Generations as they probably decided at that moment to ditch the numbering which made the differences even more confusing to follow. And they completely muddled the waters with Rise also releasing on PC and consoles, where all previous portable version only released on portable devices.
It's also of note that the western MH community was a lot smaller before World. So it makes sense that the western people who liked older games like the portable style, but now all the people unknowingly yearning for some more of that mainline style don't want to let it go either. Anyway, I like that they keep both styles in parallel, but maybe they should just make the distinction more clear so people from both sides don't get riled up.
@@flavionms another interesting point is that westerners usually like home console experiences while japan is way more into portable gaming. Portable series would always sell better than mainline until World because that's what Japan likes more (portable 3rd being MH's best seller before World and Mainline moving to portable consoles to appeal the japanese audience). I think we're gonna see the next years Mainline MH will be the "western game" made to sell for a global audience (something World was already doing) and Portable series will be more focused on selling for the japanese audience, next portable game will likely be coming out for switch's successor and pc with steam deck verified.
There's probably more people hating on Rise than World and older games right now but when MH Wilds comes out there's gonna be those that hate on it on the basis that it's not like Rise
Considering that world is more popular and assuming wilds will be very similar to world I imagine the people making those complaints are going to be laughed out of the room. A bigger argument I could see is taking something from rise and everyone complaining about it
@@badasscrusader hmm...so i wouldn't mind something *else* that functions like a palamute, but if secondary companions are going to be introduced, then it needs to either be a one-off for a new region, or within the setting it needs to be framed as an innovation. Perhaps some breakthrough in breeding.
@@Nehezir Honestly there's nothing from world I want to keep in regards to gameplay. The environments were cool, but as a dual blades main, my best attack relying on me sliding or being by a cliff made the gameplay sluggish and boring as hell, even for the fastest weapon in the game. Rise introduced so many good tools and diversified so many movesets that I genuinely loved utilizing, unlike spending an hour before a hunt gathering barrel bombs and other stuff.
I'm one of the 7 or so people in North America who pre-ordered MH1 a thousand years ago and played every English release since. These fights have happened after every single release. I remember people in line at conventions playing their PSPs and getting in to vehement arguments about the minutiae of the games. I think it's fine and healthy for the community, honestly. Eventually, good ideas and bad ideas get filtered and the games have always been enjoyable. The experimentation is part of what made the series not die after the first entry, and it's great that they try new things. The only group of fans who are objectively incorrect and need their opinions disregarded are the ones who want water combat to come back. I don't care if Tri was your first MH game, y'all need Monster Jesus.
I’m glad that I’m in the extreme minority of MH fans that appreciates both the obsessive attention detail in the ecology, world building, and continuity in general but also a degree of innovation. I started the series with MH3U on the 3Ds and, I won’t lie, I was so terrified of the monsters that I kind of wussed out of it before I even got to High Rank, and I had more than 2000 hours on that thing (let that sink how much of a puss I was back then). I fell in love with the world of MH, not the gameplay, but it’s a badge of honor as a gamer to actually master any of these games. Now that I’ve played both World and Rise-which delved even more deliciously into this world while making the mechanics less frustrating-I can go back and play the older titles as an added challenge. To me, the gameplay and the world are integral to each other, so I don’t understand the animosity in the MH community. World is a massive accomplishment in expanding the MH lore and making it more open world and natural-feeling while Rise legitimately makes you feel like a badass, anime character AND it fleshes out NPCs more. Personally, I love the MH series as a whole without prejudice.
Idk, now and then i still play world, helping randoms to kill alatreon and fatalis, i haven't touch rise in months, i mean i had fun playing rise, but i gravitate towards world naturally.
As one of those old fans who began the series with Tri, the biggest thing for me that I want to see return is the old armor skill system. So many times in Sunbreak’s I’ll build a set with 3-4 specific skills in mind and end up with a Serg that had 5-6 extra skills all with solid amounts of points that I wasn’t even going for. The whole system feels very overclocked and I’d like to see a more streamlined skill system that makes you have to really weigh how much different skills are wroth pursuing again.
@@drypotato6990the old system is literally just basic addition and substraction. I could understand the problem being that new players are just too lazy to optimize their sets, but not that most people jumping in from world are utterly incapable of basic primary school math.
I like math and I played since 3U but I'd rather not have them like in the old games. It gets cumbersome to eventually defaulting to athena's armor set search to make armor builds.
I’m an old MH fan and I’ll give my two cents. I started playing MHFU in around 2011 when a cousin introduced it to me on his PSP. I have very fond memories of that time. The game was unforgiving, they had no tutorial. It was also very difficult to find guides for any particular hunt. I remember needing help with our good ol’ Nargacuga when I first met him. There were no guides on YT besides this one 144p video of a Japanese player dunking on G -rank Narg in under 10 min. So I basically sat for hours staring at my screen trying to guess at what they were doing. Very fun times indeed. I have since played almost all MH games and love the series very much! I’m not very big on fandoms in general so I was completely unaware of this… division?, conflict? between MH rise and MH world fans. Sorry but it just seems idiotic to me. As well stated by the video, we’ve known the MH developers have two separate teams for portable and console entries. And that has been true for a while now, but the differences between them became more apparent to us players when 4th gen released. This point is, actually, the only explanation that I think was missing in this otherwise good video! 4th gen was a… unique period in MH (to put it kindly haha), mainly because the series was solely portable for a while, coupled with some exclusive japanese releases relating to Cross and Double Cross that had some of us Western fans feeling rather down. 4th gen also introduced new mechanics relating to vertical mobility and monster designs that were wholly fantastical in approach. All the while your characters was zapping around the arena looking like an anime protagonist. So to me, new fans commenting on this “conflict” saying Rise was a “departure from form” just sounds silly, and it shows they have no idea what they are talking about. Rise was, if anything, a step down from the previous hand held titles, trying to take the best that Double Cross and World had to offer. It’s pretty normal to like one more than the other. Some of my friends who have played MH for as long as I have play almost exclusively the portable tittles, while I always enjoyed the down to earth style of MHFU and Tri. This has never been a problem before, we all love MH equally.
Well said. Rise very much felt like a merge of classic hunter and world. I think it missed it's steps but it did introduce some very interesting concepts to the series. The wirebug mechanic and movement system is as fluid as it ever has been. And Palamute are very fun to ride. For me personally, I prefer the old methodical and slow combat as opposed to this new style of the games. I enjoy having only the inventory I bring along during quests. It made the games feel far more brutal and less forgiving. I learned monsters movements and when the best time was to let off a GS charge. Opposed to new games where I can swing much wilder than I ever could before. I'll keep playing the new ones because they're still great. But classic hunter is where my heart is. And with the community edition of Frontiers. I have plenty of classic hunter to play. It's a shame so many monsters from frontier died in that game and haven't been seen since.
Disagree with rise being a step down. It's what introduced more verticality and removed nuisances of traveling as well as negative gameplay of throwing a paintball every so often. I liked world but it felt too slow with how the maps are structured which caused more downtime every between fights. And while yes such things like l cloaks and claw are not mandatory since it makes it too dam easy, I still never saw the point of adding it. You can argue that Rise wirebugs are OP but the monster movesets are catered around that and has wirebug punish moves for the trigger happys. The moveset of the earliest Rath fight alone in Rise would be hella annoying to fight in World coz thats just how it was designed, hell even in MHX the downtime between moves of monsters are shorter than it is in World since it's closer to MH4U combat. World just has more cinematic feel to it but MH has never been about that, it's always about the gameplay and combat which Rise delivers muuuch better than World
i think a big part of the old vs new fans likely is that attention span as gone down as we have evolved tech. tiktok, youtube shorts etc. so new fans likely want action and only action jumping from monster to monster while older players might like that there is more "world building" and dont mind it taking a bit longer to hunt a monster and can really feel the immersion
What are you thought on being able to restock supplies at the tent? That's a quality of life feature that came at a great sacrifice, making hunting preparation much less complex and nuanced while making you feel less like you're out in the wild against impossible odds. I'm sure they'll keep this feature, but I hope not more such QoL features will follow that eventually make things feel less weighty and important.
@@JNoel-zx8xb Also I would like to add the reworks to Rathalos, Teostra and Kushala to give some examples are FUCKING INSANE. I was sick of fighting the same Kushala for five generations straight, but that tornado shit remembered me when it was MANDATORY to have wind resistance or bringing a friend with a hammer or you're just fucked. Not unbalanced or unfair but you need to actually pay some attention on ass-old monsters even if you're on your 1000th Teostra hunt and can basically no-hit it in every game he appeared. Very pleased with that. I haven't reached master rank in Rise yet, but I'm eager to see which new moveset old monsters will have.
I just got into monster hunter for the first time from MHN and I have been wanting to play a real, non-mobile game and all I could find about Rise and World were people bickering over which was better and I was so confused. This was so helpful. I got Rise a couple weeks ago, but based on this, I'd like World a lot more
As someone who started with GU just before gettting into World, I can appreciate all three archetypes, even if I understand full well that I have a preference for World. I appreciate the love and care the team put into the design of monsters, their environments, the ecology and the like. And I found myself captivated by how it felt like the first game I ever played where I felt the need to hoard EVERYTHING. Seldom do you find a material or item you won't need later. Everything is useful. In my personal experience, when I jumped into World, I felt like alot of the gripes that I had with GU were dealt with. World's combat is definitely simpler to understand. I wanted the ability to change weapons mid-hunt, and I got that. Radial Menus made accessing items much easier, as someone who plain has a hard time focusing as it is, being able to muscle memory a couple of flicks to throw out a dust, drop a trap, or ready a flash has allowed me to be a more opportunistic teammate. Being able to move while using things like potions doesn't completely remove risks, and roll-cancelling to dodge an attack can actually punish you for being impatient, using the item and gaining little to nothing; similar to picking the wrong time to heal in an old world game, if only a bit more forgiving. Radial crafting is also a godsend for gunners: it allows them more uptime on doing damage instead of sifting through menus mid-hunt to make ammo. I have jumped into GU again and when I do, I can acknowledge and even say "I'm so used to being babied by world, lol" but it in no wise causes me to feel like GU is unfun. I was actually able to utilize a lot of what I learned from World to become a better hunter than I had been initially, and that made me feel more confident. It made me appreciate the "quality of life" changes, but again, I also wouldn't paint it as inherently better design. In World/Rise, I often less restock for myself as I do to ensure I have enough dusts and powders for teammates. I'm a very cooperative/team oriented player. That said, each one has their strengths and flaws. And when I see people spiting one of the games, I try to offer the opinion that it is just a different experience, and that none of them are better or worse than one another. I personally have had a hard time enjoying Rise nearly as much as I do World. World combat is definitely less fast-paced than Rise. It feels like an even ebb and flow or a dance, where as, I often describe Rise as "Anime beat-em-up" Monster Hunter. It feels like it's either you or the monster are wombo comboing one another, with little of an in-between occurring, less so in base game, and more come Sunbreak. If we look at the distribution of skills and mechanics, Rise clearly leans into encouraging players to time i-frames or use counters / super armors. Until recently, I had a proclivity to guard or tackle everything (Greatsword Main here) and while that definitely worked in World, it doesn't fare the same in Sunbreak. I understand there's a lot of attacks I need to learn, and it's not the same game in many regards. To a degree, I understand I need to invest the time and have to get good, and some people aren't going to be happy about facing that and swallowing their pride. I have 3k hours in world and basically everything I could need. To some, that's outrageous, and to others, that's rookie hours. I don't say that to boast, but, I think to some degree, there's going to be people who turn back to World if their save file is beefier and they feel more accomplished and confident there. I have nowhere near that much time in Rise. The advent of MH coming to PC has brought along with it the option to use things such as Hunterpie to gauge your damage output, and it's easy to feel like you aren't good at the game if you're not in the top half. I bring this up because, while confidence hunting with others could always be an insecurity even before dps charts (feeling like you're being carried or not doing your part)-- I'm sure many players suffer that same feeling with that tool's introduction and ease of access as well. The easy answer is "don't use it" but, if you've ever seen it, you're already in too deep. Ultimately, seeing those numbers is what made me a better player in World and to strive to improve, and be able to carry my own weight, but it was initially demoralizing. To get to the point I'm at on this paragraph though: I suspect some people spite Rise in particular because they simply haven't put in the time to catch one file up with the other and it makes them feel like they're not the hunter they think they are. It isn't fair to yourself to compare one save file to another, least of all two games that play so vastly different.
@@CrashKaiju Yeah and make no mistake, I actually came to love GU more when I went back to it from world. I love the sandbox of skills and playstyles that MH has to offer, and GU has those in spades. As GU was a loveletter to the franchise, being able to experience most of the cast there, having not played the older games, helped me to get to know a good chunk of the roster.
Damn, thanks for taking the time to type out this whole thing. As a rise only, it's interesting to hear veterans opinions and memories of old games, and geeze, i thought I was hot shit for having 350 hours or so, but 3k!? "Rookie numbers"? I definitely got much to learn, and hunt lol.
I miss the old tracking system so much, it felt like a really mastery thing, walking around lost when i was a noob trying to find the monster, going to knowing where the monster usually spawns and using paint balls and such, by the end of my time playing MH4U i didn't even take paint balls with me, i knew where the monsters were, i knew the maps the went to try and eat to recover, i knew where their nests were and all that, it felt awesome. The change with bug nets and pickaxes is a much needed one, but the camp resupply kinda makes it too easy like said in the video. Honestly the only thing that i really dread making a return in MH Wilds is the Clutch Claw Meta. Idk if it felt like to to other people but i felt like after the clutch claw was released there was NO reason to make any other type of build besides affinity/weakness exploit.
you must understand with the new engine that is started from World the modern MH was basically a reset, they need time, to adjust and prioritize the thing they envisioned as "good gameplay" even though some people would not agree people like history lesson as they themselves become history and gets older it's just nostalgia
@@Ghanzza bro I agree MHW weapon design are just mid I had to rely on mods to change those generic looking weapon. They sacrifice the time to design weapon, and allocate more for the environment... I can't blame them though. It's just a trade off
Great video! A lot of food for thought here. I started with Tri , so I'm a weird outlier when I say I actually enjoy all the games for being different in some ways to each other. Though admittedly, I like World the most for it's longevity and looks.
ey started in tri too. I really like world too best one so far although.... I wish they would have used some of the old weapon designs, as some of the old monsters got weapon downgrades. For example barroth one of my favorite monster and weapons got shafted with its lance that is not even close to the design they already had in tri. what's your thoughts on them changing old weapons to less fantastical things?
Hey, another hunter that started in Tri! For me, World hit almost every spot. I was missing one of my favorite monsters, Agnaktor, but apart from that, it was perfect. Rise on the other hand...it was a bunch of little things. For example, after coming from the rich meals in World to just Dangos felt kinda pathetic. Also, World felt like an actual world with creatures, while Rise felt more...mystical, for lack of a better word. Now, this might have been better for some, but I liked the Explorer-style of World more. I can still appreciate both, but I would rather have World over Rise any time.
@@Wolftatze I kinda agree with you right there but I'll never forgive World for shafting the Switch Axe and the Sword and Shield controls and while I agree World's environment is overall better there's also stuff Rise does better, tho let's be honest here both Rise and World share the same DNA so most of my gripes with modern MH can be found in both games
The vision they presented in that Barton cutscene is the first experience I had with the monster hunter franchise and it’s just… perfect I’ve always used that video as my basis for the direction I want the game to go in
Hey! I remember streaming games with you back when Rise came out. I see the Monster Hunter community is going to continue having this mainline vs portable and old vs new world argument in perpetuity! You did hit the nail on the head on what people like about the old world games. The pacing, especially in single player, really made you slow down and take in the environment. Starting in world it just started to feel like a race to get to the next monster. I'd love to see some of the old school elements come back a bit.
I actually feel like World embraced checking out the vistas, collecting pets, finding cat doodles, looking for tracks... I felt like Rise was the "race to the monster with your spiderman powers" game and maybe that's why I didn't enjoy it that much.
Humans don’t have as sophisticated opinions as they think. A lot of times it’s just “I personally enjoy this more” but it comes out as “THIS BETTER” Self centered internet opinions innit
I’m really curious as to how they will approach wilds. After the success of World and Rise I’d imagine they’ve had heaps and heaps of feedback. I for one enjoyed world, but would appreciate some of the mechanics and systems of past games returning to add to the complexity, stuff like the tracking. It could be a mix of the two, could be more movement oriented, more punishing, who knows.
The approach seems similar to world, basically trying to really make monster "hunter" Like world with organic and live environment where you can feel living world instead of monster "fighter" like rise where it's more of a boss rush and just fight
@@jacqli9315 i hope its something that combines both aspects of world and rise in to something greater. i fully except there to be a wirebug like mechanic in a new monster hunter like game and a creature you can ride on for more faster traversal aand a some kind of a clutch claw but the monsters can counter those more effectively than in either game. i also except even more focus on the environment and ecosystem while still keeping the game itself fun.
@@mpo48 I really dislike the wirebug mechanic it makes the game more dmc hack and slash, the speed bumped up too much and didn't feel as realistic as world tbh I wish wirebug never came back, same with the forced riding with the wirebug
Been playing worlds for so long that a friend of mine gifted me the rise to try it out, and immediately I fell in love with rise due to one function I'm absolutely looking for in worlds: which is the Pause button. Wish they keep putting that function in the future of Monster Hunter series. Always need the pause button whenever I'm hunting alone to relax.
World is easily my favorite MH, and Rise doesn't scratch that itch for me, and I think it's because I come at MH from a more Dark Souls-like perspective, I love that clanky gritty combat, and a lot of folks love the high octane stuff in Rise. It's really just up to personal taste and both sides need to accept not all games will be for them, there are two completely different groups lol
started in rise, then played world. i honestly can't tell which i like more. i like spending hours in an immersive world in... world, but i also like the incredibly fast paced combo-focused gameplay of rise. i think they're both brilliant games, but i can understand why ppl don't like either.
I got started with world and got around 150 hours but when I got rise I thought it was fun and now I got 300 hours in it but I love the ecological aspect and hope to see more of it on wilds
I started with Rise and then tried World. Both are very different, but I think neither game is "objectively" far better than the other. I personally prefer Rise by a lot, but that's mainly due to my own preferences in games. I prefer the simplified non-realistic graphics of Rise, because World's graphics kind of overwhelm me (and my graphics card), too much (especially non-relevant) stuff happening. I like that Rise's hub is easier to navigate (I really don't like the walks through the base in World) and that prep in general is a bit quicker - makes it easier to just jump into a hunt when I have a bit of free time. My personal power fantasy in video games is more about mobility and less about wielding slow and heavy stuff, so, quiet naturally, the faster paced higher mobility combat of Rise is more up my alley.
I first played the WiiU game, so I'm not really a veteran, but at least knew and loved the game before "World". I think that the way they streamlined certian things was done absolutely perfectly in "world". They hit that perfect sweet spot. "World" really was quite a perfect game.
Watching world babies shit on rise fans like veterans did on world fans is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Even funnier when I'm pretty sure that half of these people don't even understand the difference in mainline/portable design philosophy that has always existed, which is the core of the argument between them. I don't remember this kind of hatred between 4U and GU enjoyers, when I feel like those games had a lot of similar distinctions as world/rise.
Thank you for making this video, it's very well said and highlights several of the main issues that crop up when discussing MH. It might be more evident now, but these divisions are pretty deeply rooted in the community, and go further back then the start of fifth gen. If you study the games closely, and the history of their discourse, you'll realize there've always been these sorts of trends. It's not new and is intertwined with conflicting interpretations over the identity of MH. There are many reasons for my channel's name, I had decided on it before the release of MHGen, and I think this video helps capture a decent number of them. Ultimately, I've been hoping more people would embrace the series as a whole, rather then getting so caught up in which titles are "the only ones worth playing." Maybe one day we'll move past these issues, and I'll get around to changing it, for now though the name stays.
The problem is how wildly different a lot of the games are. Rise and World make up the probably most differing generation in a while and as such are barely even comparable. One of them is an action adventure while the other is an arcade beat em up. I think that unless the dev teams agree on an overall vision for the game, the community will stay divided between dev team lines.
@@xhbn2157 There are a decent number of games that have similar shifts. Freedom Unite to Tri comes to mind, which has similar art-style/mechanical differences between each other, not to mention the shift from the main series being basically Playstation exclusive to being on the Wii. Even within the same generation, 4/4U and Gen/GU play very differently. It just depends on where you draw the line, but there have been disagreements on the direction of MH since Gen 1. It's fine to prefer a particular title or style of MH, I personally take issue with people that discourage others from discovering more of the series, because they like one game more then the others. I'd rather they encourage people to try the game they like, as well as the rest of the series. Sure, not everyone has time for everything, but adding additional barriers to entry is not the solution.
I like both Rise and World for different reasons, World is great because it's so immersive and feels like a cinematic experience at times, it's much grander. But Rise has a really cool aesthetic, better cast of characters, and to be honest sometimes it's just cool to fight monsters, it gives that power fantasy element of being this really strong hunter
I think for me, the 'realism' of World actually made it worse. Mostly because, as nice as everything looked, it was also super messy and stuff. Greenish brown monsters would blend into the greenish brown trees and greenish brown ground and greenish brown vines. Obviously some areas were worse than others. Didn't have too much issue in the desert area for example. Rise just feels 'cleaner' to me. Like, everything pops more, and it just makes the whole thing easier to actually look at and pick things out from the background.
@@TXFDA An advantage of it being the work of the portable team, they were used to designing for lower resolution less responsive screens, aesthetically and gameplay Rise is a joy to play most of the time though I do miss tracking like it was in the old days most of the areas are small enough now it's barely an issue in either World or Rise.
Great video, I now dread when the next game comes out after wilds and how everyone will perceive it as a change of form or fall off. I was guilty of the same thing when Rise came out, I opened a twitch stream, looked at it for about 1 minute, saw the chat ripping it apart, and assumed MH had completely fallen off, closed the stream and never looked at anything MH for a number of years. I'm all good now, in fact I'm a super capcom fanboy, I like basically every game they make and that started with Resident Evil on the game cube, even before RE4. For some reason I just hadn't given MH a try ever. I missed so many good games lmao.
I have yet to play a MH that I didn't absolutely love. It hurts seeing people being so negative, but this definitely explains it. Still, with MH6 theres no doubt in my mind that we're eating good
Some are just better than others. RIse is objectively (overall) inferior to World but that doesn't make it BAD. it was still great fun but long after I got bored of rise, I am still going back to World. And I did love Hammer in Rise, how the wirebug let you become SUPER BONK the SKULLCRUSHER
@@zeehero7280saying it's better is not an objective statement. It will always be subjective. By what metric are you measuring that it's objectively better? Is it the monster size and variety of the monsters? It can't be cause sunbreak has more monsters than world and more variety. Is it the graphics of world? Well obviously. It's designed for ps4 whereas rise is for switch. Would you say world is objectively better than Zelda tears of the kingdom because it's on switch? Is it the sales? World did sell more (18m vs 13 m) but then would you say GTA 4 released in 2008 is a better game than World cause gta 4 sold more? You might like some aspects and mechanics more in one game than the other. But that's a subjective analysis. You can't objectively say (in this case) that one game is better than the other
@@zeehero7280 You say rise is objectively worse but thats just cap. Its your opinion not a fact. I think Rise overall did a lot of things better than world. The tenderize mechanic in world was terrible and rise made many fights like rathalos and kushala way better than world cuz all they did was sit in the air 24/7. Dont get me wrong I still like world be stop spoutin this whole "Its objectively better than rise🤓" bs
Great video, summarizes the whole debacle cleanly. I will say, while I am also a big classic fan and definitely want some elements from the classic games to return, I don't know how so many classic fans give Generations a pass. The combat is more different from GU to 4U, than World is to 4U. GU and Rise are much more similar to each other with the crazy abilities in terms of combat than any of the other games. Anyway, I have a feeling Wilds is going to make everyone happy. That Capcom is intensely aware of all the divisions and issues people have, and their wishlists.
Monster Hunter World was my first Monster Hunter game and I was hooked, played it for months on end - then Rise came out.......... and I loved it, and also played it for months on end haha. And now I'm excited for the new one, no matter how it ends up, because I know it's just going to be a really good time. I'm super loving my late-discovery of this franchise. I remember having Monster Hunter on the DS, got confused, didn't understand any of it, stopped playing, never picked it up again.
I've played some of the older ones but world was the first time I went into it regularly doing co-op, just mucking around with the events and doing dumb stuff with mates is what will keep me coming back to the series regardless of how unrealistic or realistic the devs want the game to be
The truth is MH was always going to head in a more streamlined direction for a wider appeal. World did a great job at introducing new players without burdening them too much with "sim elements" while still keeping the spirit of crafting, prepping, tracking & hunting alive. Like mentioned in the video, the "purist" grounded footsie based gameplay with no frills in older mh titles are a product of their time, and what we're seeing with entries like World / Rise is just evolution. A natural course for any aging franchise. Vanilla World still retained audience with oldheads with its focus on grounded checkers gameplay (pre iceborne) and living/breathing ecosystem. World clearly tried to find a middle ground to bridge old vs new players. I think it did well in this regard, but there will always be disagreements because there is simply no pleasing everyone. I love both World and Rise and the differences that set them apart. I think it's a good thing that we have MH games that are uniquely distinct from eachother and tries different things to stand out. An experimental portable title, or a more rooted and true to form mainline entry, there will always be a MH for everyone. Now that it's been established that the mainline/portable distinction is capcom's way forward, It's about time we stfu and lay the "us vs them" thing to rest, and simply enjoy these games for what they are.
There is no such thing as a "natural course" for any human endeavor. There is no magical obvious or even non-obvious progression for things to follow. These are projects by people making choices. And those choices can and will change with the people involved and their particular attitudes. If FromSoft suddenly became in charge of Monster Hunter, the fights might get more punishing. If the people who made Cabela's Big Game Hunter games got in charge, they might become slower and more focused on hunting realism. Acting like "oh of course they're getting streamlined" is nonsense. There's never any natural progression toward streamlining, it's a choice made by those making the game.
@@MidlifeCrisisJoe And why do you think the developers make the choice to streamline? is it because it makes sense to introduce and ease in a whole new generation of players to a 19 year old franchise, or because capcom just felt like it? Streamlining IS a natural course for aging franchises because as game design philosophy and technology advances, so do our expectations. This happens in literally every aging franchise. Resident evil, dark souls, final fantasy, the list could go on. How well do you reckon something like mh2 dos would do if it released today, with its ps2 tank controls, very basic and positional combat? That might be what you want, but it wouldn't pull players from a marketing perspective. Acting like streamlining is not a natural course for old ip's is simply willful ignorance, because they all do it.
The time and effort you went through to accurately describe the different stances between these divisions is incredible. As a veteran fan who started in Freedom Unite, I would love a “return to form” including everything you mentioned in the segment regarding Veteran Fans. However I fully realize that this is more likely to hurt the growth of the series in the future, so I’m not pushing for such a change to ever occur. Instead a fan game or related release by an indie studio could do what I feel I want done, not because Capcom can’t or won’t do it, but because the series is so large that if they went back to the Freedom Unite style of hunting then the new fans would likely leave in droves- killing the franchise. Listening to your video made me very happy as it showed me that people do understand where the veteran fans are coming from and our desires for the series, including our thoughts on the QoL changes brought by World and Rise.
Seems like some of the older fans view the clunk in sort of the same vein as fighting games and inputs, in the vague sense that they're translating the real life mechanical dexterity of an action to its simulated complexity. Almost all series naturally erode into becoming action games of some kind, since it's a very basic, accessible and immediately rewarding form of gameplay. But in the same way MH designs help to identify the series apart from generic dragons, the closer the titles get to being yet another action game, the less value they'll have. There are many things I personally don't like, as someone who only dips into the series (like consumables of any kind), but I also recognize you cannot remove those things without removing the conceits of what makes the series, itself.
I'm a veteran MH player. When i got MHW in 2019, i was just starting my degree in biology, so i had the GREAT opportunity to play this game throughout my entire biology degree and look at it with biologist eyes while learning and i realized how important the ecology and realistic part of it is. The thought and care the devs put into the biological side of it is so that i'm even writing my Final Paper upon it. Might be publshed in Biológica at the end of this year or begginning of 2025, i'll see if i can translate it to English. . On the gameplay side of it, i think World imrpoved a lot, i loved the scoutflies, the faster peaced action, i went back to the older game again and they felt clumsy, like i don't have much control over my own character. While i miss the feeling that it was a one-way journey that i had to prepare for, the time-saving of the camp and extra potions is so important as i don't have as much free time as i used to when i was younger and i belive most people could say the same. Over 600 hours of this game, 5 years and i still haven't finished it. Feels like World hit the perfect proportion of mechanics, if i prepare properly i can do anything but i don't need to endlessly grind and study patterns for it.
I started with Freedom Unite and I've played every release of a game since. New games are just new games; they come with new things to learn or new ways to hunt. I never saw that as a bad thing. It's fun and always fresh.
I would classify myself as a slightly veteran (I joined during 4U and loved it and GU) but I enjoyed World for what it was. Rise isn't bad but it's just not why I play MH. Of the things you mentioned I agree I don't love being able to restock in hunts because I enjoyed preparing according to the hunt. I'm also a bit indifferent to paintballs. I wish there was a middle ground between scoutflies and paintballs. I like tracking even if in the end monster spawn in the same spots usually. But things like pickaxes being infinite or always on you doesn't bother me compared to restocking.
As someone who entered in World and is generally pretty recent to the franchise, the way I see it is that the best game is a middle ground. Stuff like at least limiting the stock of items you can bring at camp if not just being stuck with your inventory while quality of life stuff like pickaxes and scout flies should be here to stay or at least mostly the same. Stuff from Rise and GU like different move sets for each weapon should be a series mainstay IMO. Stuff like having a party of GS users all playing it differently sounds amazing and it only broadens customization which has always been a strong suit of the franchise. Lastly, the focus on ecology should stay because Rise felt kind of empty without it. Ultimate attack I don’t mind but I can live with or without. Also Capcom better do a berserk layered armor crossover at some point. Pulling up on a monster in the berserker armor with the dragonslayer is something that just needs to happen.
I think World... almost hits that middle ground. Key word is almost. To quickly sum up how the scoutflies work: Each monster has a scoutfly level that rises when you hunt it or collect tracks for it more, and falls the more you focus on other monsters. Creating a constant ebb and flow of which monsters you'll either immediately see upon loading in or monsters that will be otherwise completely invisible. I like this on paper but in practice the flies are a bit hand-holdy, not exactly trusting a player to explore and gain situational awareness, which can diminish how much one learns. Its why I personally think a lot of people claim the Ancient Forest is a bad map- they never really needed to learn it, the scoutflies just politely dragged them around. That ebb and flow system is good because if you're grinding a monster repeatedly you can get to it faster, but if you're unfamiliar with a monster you still need to bother to track it down and re-learn its movement. As for the camps, again, World almost reaches a decent halfway point. There are a metric ton of resources everywhere which allow for restocking on the fly, which is great, but you don't need them all after awhile because you can restock completely at camp, which is bad. Fast travel and multiple camps wouldn't feel so cheesy if they just had confidence in their map design and resource placement. Especially considering World's incredibly robust mini map which helps you find whatever it is you need.
@@internetdragon7624 I kinda get the dislike for Ancient Forest, out of all the World maps, it certainly feels like the hardest to navigate. The location of some locations compared to others isn't quite as clear as in the others.
@@Otakumanu Literally the basics on real hunting. Monsters ALWAYS had at most 2 preset spawn locations. You can also follow the direction the monster is leaving at with the lock-on camera. Paintballs were always just for convenience, NOT mandatory like many casuals claim.
Loading screens, running out of paintballs, non regenerating gathering points, pick axes that break, bugnets that break, crafting %success, not having access to full inventory during hunts, running out of wetstones. Added difficulty to the old games which was cool but I have to say I don't really miss some of the frustration
The discourse existing between fans of each titles is nothing new but I think World/Rise thing only happened because of very specific circumstances. World invited a lot of new people who will see it as the default standard for the series. And then they released Rise immediately afterwards, which IMO is an experimental title. By experimental I mean when the game features bombastic mechanics that doesn't even feel like it belongs in MH. Stuff that feels way more out-there than something like going from paintballs to scoutflies, if that makes any sense. When Rise was released I've seen a lot of World fans disliking it because it was "too anime" in both gameplay and design wise. Only reason I'm bringing this up is because I have seen this level of discourse happening before with 4/4U and Generations. Except back then the community was not big as it is now for it to be noticed by outsiders.
i agree this is pretty much 4u vs GU but unlike on the previous "discourse" which i liked both of em, i can see myself going back for both games. This time i am on "World" side. it's getting closer to god eater/anime ish thing and event quests rewards vs DLC quality gaps nailed the coffin for me.
Imo, Rise feels more like the “good ol’ MH” than World. MH was already starting to move towards more flashy, fantastical hunt gameplay since 4. If anything is “experimental”, its Generations.
4u was my first and is my favorite of the series, needing to plan and be fully prepared before every hunt was integral to the feeling of the game, as well as gathering while also going after the other main objectives, learning what resources spawn where, learning the habits and patterns of the monsters, and Repetition. I always say that the player character, while important, is not the main character of the game, it’s the monsters, they have the most character, especially the antagonist monsters for each game, Gore Magala being the best in that respect (IMO).
I started with Freedom, then Freedom Unite (There's a reason why it was called MHFU, everything ganged up on you holy shit). I always planned ahead so carefully in those games. I recall going on a G-ranked Green Plesioth hunt with 2 of my friends, and the damned thing was so tanky and buggy both me (HBG) and another friend (LBG) ran out of every single bullet except for Normal 1. Not wanting to do minimal damage all the way, we disengaged and ran all over the map harvesting resources to craft, and harvesting meat and herbs/blue mushrooms for our Longsword friend who pretty much ran out of healing and stamina items. We killed the green terror with 49 seconds left on the quest timer. It was a fucked up quest, but it was one of our best memories together. It was such an iconic hunting experience, almost a journey in itself. I initially disliked World, because the combat was so fast paced (yeah I know, wait til I saw Rise) and because of the clutch claw mechanic. I thought it really trivialized the entire fight when you could just claw the monster over and over for decent damage without fear of retaliation. Eventually I warmed up to the game and saw its merits. I especially loved it for its ecology, and would spend hours on gathering quests just following the monsters around and observing their daily life. I couldn't really get into Rise because I'd grown to fall in love with World. It felt like an empty arena fight. Enter, get on your doggo, sprint to the boss, kill it in a pretty much undisturbed fight. You have trouble? Just hijack another monster and do massive damage to the target. Hell you didn't even need to put in any effort (like luring Deviljho to help put the hurt on your target in World). I agree fully that the monsters are the heart of the series, not the player. World and the older titles seemed to show that the player must maintain the balance with nature and approach it with caution and care. Rise seemed like a Marvel movie experience where you're Iron Man gunlancing through the air, and it was all about the flash and power fantasy of the player rather than the immersion of a well fleshed-out world.
Ive been playing since Mh3u and I honestly love how each game feels totally different in their own way. The old style definitely blends in with itself a little more but even then each game added something new and relevant. Its so nice to know that monster hunter isnt just getting lazy, theyre at least trying things to see what feels good and what doesnt. That makes the replay value of each game better
Great writeup Rata. A bit of a shame to hear how vocal the World/Rise 'discourse' is but with Wilds at least it will set the standard for Gen 5ers on how the series has always operated. It's really important that the MH team continue to have the distinction between "Mainline" and "Portable." It allows them to take risks with game mechanics in the "portable" series while having another, safer title in the "mainline" series. You pretty much covered most of my gripes with Gen 5 in the 'old vets vs new fans' section so instead I'll mention some ideas towards some of those gripes. Camp Restock: While I didn't outright hate it (more indifferent), I feel like having access to your entire item box is a bit much. MH is a game that can totally thrive off of inconveniencing the player if they lean more into the hunting simulation side (which I'd like them to do). As a 'old hunter (Freedom Unite, 4U)', I've always held the preparation aspect in high regard. It is an integral part of being a 'hunter'. Now, would I wish anyone the pain of abandoning a quest because they forgot traps in a capture quest? Absolutely not, but I think some restriction of inventory is in order. As for my proposal, if Wilds has certain designated campsites, I would say having a "second inventory" would be appropriate for hunting purposes. The second inventory would consist of items you picked from your item box and would be no bigger than your normal inventory with the same inventory restrictions. Those provisions would be sent out with you on a hunt. The second inventory could also allot space for 1 armor set if you so choose (dependent on if we get dual weaps or armor skill implementation). Difficulty Spread: Yes please. This won't really be as impactful for me I feel but it's implementation is important. There should be *at least* some spikes in difficulty that series vets can vaguely perceive where newer players will get stuck. Difficulty should not only be backloaded, it should be sprinkled around during progression. The problem lies in the dynamic power struggle between hunter and monster. World had a decent spread for everyone as the main systems had changed alot. Rise made hunters literal gods and walking calamities with how much they could adapt to monsters. Combat fluidity changed alot for hunters and very little for monsters. We don't have to go all the way back to mechanical combat, World combat I feel was perfectly fine. Just make monsters threatening again. "Drunk Bird" and the "High (G) Rank Penalty": Something that wasn't mentioned but I have special feelings for. For the uninitiated, 'drunk bird' was the unique situation in World where the wind drake would freak out and drop you off in a location that wasn't the base camp. To me, it was visual representation that a mishap had occurred in the process of a quest (ex. you encountered a flying wyvern en route to camp or something) and you had to make a unaccounted detour. This is an old gen mechanic (usually tied to "dangerous" monsters or unstable environments), but because there were no repercussion for initiating this mechanic at the start of a quest it was seen more as an annoyance than an important hunting aspect (hence the nickname). Which leads me to the repercussion, the HR(GR) Penalty. In the old gen, if you were dropped off anywhere but camp, you were basically stuck with only the items you had packed for a duration of the hunt (as it's implied that your extra provisions had to make a detour to avoid danger). This put hunters first experiencing this in a unique situation, as with less readily available supplies they would have to be more mindful of their actions, or waste hunt time to acquire said provisions (only applied to the initial starting provisions). I was deeply sad when I found out while playing with a friend that the penalty was removed in World (thinking on it, it made sense for places like the ancient forest, but it wasn't implemented anywhere). There's a certain feeling that's invoked when your left stranded in the middle of the desert, run back to camp after getting lost, and find out that the item box is completely empty and you don't understand why (yet). I do hope they reimplement these in some way for Wilds if this really is a 'new frontier' setting. Putting the hunter in situations where they have to make conscious decisions on risk management (how will I confront this 'new' monster? can I do it with just my current gear/items? when do I disengage completely and head for camp? etc.) will elevate the skill level of the hunter (hopefully). Negative Armor Skills: Wasn't going to add this but my response is long already so whatever. Gimme back my armor detriments. Surely the 'muh deeps' group will be mad a me. Gen 5 was a generation of power. Hunters got none of the detriments that would normally be associated with a certain monster's gear. The most they got were the elemental weaknesses of said armor. Leaving out the detriments of an armor piece feels like removing part of the monster's character. We don't have to go back to the old skill system (tho I'm not opposed to it), we could just tack it on to the current system (lol), but I would like it if negative skills were given another chance. Also bring back Hot/Cold drinks. Immersion is important.
I agree with the armor skill detriments but the new armor system is just too much of an upgrade. I hated the old skill point threshold as it made a lot of dead points that didn’t do anything I much prefer every armor having some impact with the skill levels now, and wouldn’t mind them adding negative skills where the armor piece takes the skill away and has negative levels along the skill line.
Thanks for writing my thoughts on Armor Detriments concisely. I remember getting into 4u as a dumb teen and not getting it, but as soon as I learned it, getting a skill to activate with mixed sets/decorations/talismans was really satisfying and I felt rewarded for learning the systems. I know we can never go back to those days anymore, but I'm hoping that we can at least take a step back that way.
@@shnorkeythefourth4572 that's why I mentioned that they could just include negative skills in the current skill system. With the old system is was a balancing act to dodge thresholds you didn't want, which lead to dead points like you mentioned. With Gen 5's system, it would be immediate detriment, which might sound bad right now but eventually hunters will figure out how to negate the detriments with decorations/talismans just like how we did back in the day. With the reduction of hardware limitations we need some amount of system limitations to maintain an overall balance. If not, the more grounded MH games run the risk of a vastly skewed power dynamic (aka Rise). Negative skills could keep us in that balance (at least til endgame).
@@Aeosin we’re completely in agreement. My comment was specifically to you saying you wouldn’t mind bringing the old skill system back because of my issue with dead skills. The new system being an immediate impact slider just means they need to add negative values to the slider
I started back in ye old times of Freedom Unite, and it has been a pleasure watching the series iterate over time. I consider Tri Ulti and World to be my favorite entries, and really miss fighting monsters like the Gigginox and Lagiacrus. I haven't played iceborne as of yet due to lack of time, but plan on dedicating to another world playthrough before wilds comes out. There are definitely great things across the series, but in my own opinion, I really do agree with several things being quality of life features, such as the picks/nets and scout flies. I wasn't really a fan of Rise due to it's fast and loose style, but I know some definitely liked it and that's ok! I am the freak that loved Tri's water combat :>
I actually thought Water Combat was such a cool addition. If nothing else, I miss swimming and think it should be brought back in some way that isn't niche and crammed into one area or one or two monsters.
5:25 One aspect that shows this where an ecosystem makes sense and is connected is the Great Girros in World. Its main thing is paralysis, and it just so happens that Odogaron to be super weak to paralysis meaning it makes sense that even though Odogaron is far more powerful, why GG is able to survive in the Rotten Vale. Also the fact it lives just deep enough in the Vale where Radobaan doesn’t go.
This is probably going to make me seem like the odd man out, but I actually came into the MH fandom community through lore first and then gameplay. While Rise is my first foray into the actual game aspect, the speculative evolution angle that the mainline titles strive for is what really drove me to take a more vested interest in the world of Monster Hunter. That, and delving into aspects of both world building and creature design have always been a passion of mine as an rpg player. I do appreciate some of the more experimental and quality of life aspects that we've been given in more recent releases, but I still have respect for what came before. Especially as someone who tries not to use the tent anymore than what's necessary. Still currently wrapping up my journey in Rise/Sunbreak, but I've also got a portable copy of Generations Ultimate to play through in my backlog. Ideally, I'd say the best compromise is to try to balance both new and old features based on what compliments and accentuates the experience the devs are going for, but that's just my opinion as a novice to the series.
Given the devs regularly change up the mechanics and gameplay of nearly every entry, it makes quite enjoyable revisiting older entries; Since they offer their own relatively unique experiences.
I like both mainline and portable games in older MH titles and would prefer a more pre 5th gen angle, but I greatly prefer Rise over World despite it being an even bigger departure. I think it's mostly because I think that weapons and gameplay were completely ruined but Rise's arcade style fits the new direction more. In 5th gen most of the weapons were reduced to attempting to spam the biggest hit you have as that was made more rewarding. CB for example no longer losing shield charge on UAED means the buildup and maintenance phase of the weapon was heavily reduced. Before you'd want to SAED to keep shield since that's how you get guard points, now you can just spam away with 0 consequence, meaning that move has diminished usage. And that's the main thing the newer games are missing: consequence. Gearsets don't have negative skills and it's far too easy to stack 12 damage skills in a single build so utility skills have lost massive amounts of favour, leading to multiplayer with randoms being more frustrating than ever. They read a guide that says earplugs is useless and then get carted every time the monster roars. Healing and sharpening don't have any downsides so they are counter to the almost turn-based nature of methodical action games. Additionally, since Wilds has a rideable companion it's possible that you can do those actions on its back just like in Rise, which makes it even less punishing and antithetical to a more realistic game. Hopefully that is addressed. More ways to ignore damage like the mantles, super armour and the various counters reduce the punishment for mistiming and disincentivise learning monster movesets. I don't want these games to be alienating and brutal, but the challenge and feeling of weakness is what highlights the monsters and makes them as iconic as they are. The struggle to overcome something that is so much more powerful than you is what it means to hunt monsters. If the emphasis remains on the hunter, then what differs this series from DmC other than aesthetic?
How could you possibly prefer Rise over World after what you just described? World has it's issues, but the possibility to fix it is much more realistic than it is in a game like Rise. Liking Rise more might as well just be giving up on what you like about the series and just embracing DmC Hunter.
@@flavionmsi think you may have misinterpreted what they said, i had to read their comment twice before i understood myself. From what i can gather, it's that both games greatly changed the weapons, but a rise style arcady game works better with those changes.
@@azure4622 I figured that's what they meant, but I disagree. World did veered in that direction, but it wasn't beyond the point of no return. It would only require some tweaks to make weapons less reliant on spamming their big moves, and in truth, for average players, they can't really rely on that because they're just not that good. That's a reasonable compromise. Rise takes that up to eleven. It's now much easier to spam your strongest move because either it's a silkbind or there is a silkbind that makes it spammable. And it's so core to the game it would take a lot of reworking to move away from that. Which leads to my main point. World's style isn't nearly so far out there it's better to go full arcade. It's very much salvageable, so preferring Rise is basically giving up on that.
I've always been a gameplay over story kind of girl It might be because of my ADHD I loved GU and Rise/Sunbreak My biggest pet peeve with world/iceborne just had to do with how power crept the weapon and armor stats were I like the near evergreen nature of the equipment grind So Fatalis serving as a pretty abrupt endpoint prior to unlocking the last monster at MR100 was very frustrating for me Made worse by the event quest schedule I like Sunbreak better even tho I dislike the MR grind :P
I love GU and still play it but I didn't like Rise enough to get Sunbreak. I think it was just too streamlined for me. It made all the hunts feel the same to me.
I love World, I love Rise, I love Monster Hunter. I started with FU so I've been around for most of the series. I welcome any and all changes and experiments they do. Some I love, others I hate, but no matter what, the gameplay, monster designs, armor designs and weapon feel always deliver.
I've always loved the portable Monster Hunter games, ngl. Hell, I even started with Stories 1 despite being a spin-off. The aspect of diferent teams developing different games overlaping with one another is pretty interesting to learn.
I'm more of a "veteran" player described in this video despite starting in World. I went back and played 3U, 4U, FU, and GU, and very quickly this series has became my favorite game franchkse. I still love world, but I agree with many of the opinions listed in the "Old vs New Fans" section, I still argue for the return of the healing flex, and I would like to see a "return to form" but also with the living, breathing ecosystems of World. I love this franchise and can't wait to see what Wilds has in store.
@@Aesieda what's so wrong with heal restocking though? In the older games you could do a bunch of things to "over-prepare", like packing honey/herbs in your item pouch, collecting mats in the individual areas, sleeping in bed, or getting provisions after a certain amount of time. The only time interacting with your environment and preparations were particularly important were in the first few games, especially MH1. Heal restocking is literally just saving time, it has no bearing on skill other than players maybe caring a little less about getting hit, but then again if you're a good player that shouldnt be happening much anyways? Also I don't think flexing would fit the new movement system, I could agree on the heal taking longer to raise your health (in rise the first third of the heal is instant which I agree is a lil silly) but monsters, just like the player, are way faster than old world, where things moved much slower and robotically. So a stationary heal in the older games was properly balanced and made sense with that kind of movement system.
@@GS_CCC maybe, but I don't think that adds any intrigue to the fight, you would be waiting longer for an opening just sitting around doing nothing, or waiting for the monster to be aggro-ed by one of your palicos. In rise and world, unless you have speed eating, you will be hit if you incorrectly time your heal just like the older games, there's just more leniency for when you can heal so you don't have to wait as long for a break in the monster's AI. I definitely think it should take longer to heal but I think flexing is unnecessary in the faster movement, in old world you could practically heal whenever you wanted as soon as a monster used an attack that wasn't directed at you, whether because it missed a charge or simply went after someone else. Maybe keeping the normal walk/sprint drinking but with a quick stationary flex at the end could work, it would allow you to reposition if needed but still have some stationary commitment at the end, but it would definitely be tricky to balance with how fast the monsters are.
@@alyria9430 you won't get hit in rise, you can just evade out of it and get a bit less of the effect. I'm playing 3U now and really like that I can't just heal unpunished some times if I don't position myself properly, You can a lot of times evade a hit and use the moster attack animation to heal safely.
Fun Fact... most of the people arguing between World and Rise doesn't even understand that Monster Hunter isn't anymore what it was in the old titles. For some it feels the "realism" and "better graphics" are the thing they like, but Monster Hunters was never about it. Both World and Rise left a lot of stuff from the original games in order to move forward and become something else which they did quite well BTW. I still feel that World did a better job at handling the battles and retaining something more of the original games where you didn't use some ability and the fight was oriented around your own skill as a player. Rise gave us a lot more of freedom to play with each weapon which I loved honestly, it is the best iteration for many weapons because you can play it however you like it (much like XX) buuuuttttttttt it also resolved around the use of active abilities and SPECIALLY Fall Recovery Wirebug, which completely negates the skill needed as a player to capitalize the punishing moments and also ignoring the punish on you if you screwed it. On the other hand World made me almost left it when the Clutch Claw become as well something mandatory to kill the monsters, without it the difference was huge, felt like playing with cheats or without them and I didn't like that mechanic. I love both games and both feel different, but to me the concept art in Rise is the one I like the most, the freedom of choice in Rise is the one I also love more, the preparation for the hunt in Rise for spiritbirds and helpers is something that also reminds me of the survivalist aspect of older games and is so good they kept it (regardless of scrubs saying it was annoying), so to me it is more fun to go and play it instead of World, however World is a harder challenge without the need to handicap myself in Rise by not using some stuff. I wish the new game could be more like Rise but with the Switch Skills and abilities as something more organic in the set and without the need of wirebugs or abusing counter stances with full invincibility/armor but specially without the option to instantly recover from a hit and remove the whole game of punishment and monster patterns dance the game has always been about. So Rise without ignoring core mechanics by abusing counter/armor/invincibility/fall recovery
Fair enough, tho wirefall does at least require some braincells. Almost every monster has a dark souls ahh roll catch, and will punish you for an early/late recovery, so there's that at least. World deffo sounds cool, and I would try it if I wasn't saving up for wilds(so excited)
Personally I love both World and Rise, but for different reasons. I like how things feel like they have more weight in World, the graphics and sound quality is better, the production value is obviously better. I love Rise for the fast paced combat, huge variety in switch skills you can use, and generally find the combat to be much more interesting and fun than World. As much as I love World I actually am leaning towards liking Rise more because the combat is so amazing, though there are some aspects of both games that i’m not too fond of. They’re both great games and i’m hoping they can take some of the best aspects of Rise and fit it into a more grounded context
@mikeboi64-49 Well how do you feel about both games in comparison to the older games because I keep hearing people say monster hunter 4, 3 or Freedom unite are the best games in the series. Plus I heard some people want to go back to how things were pre mh world like having to put paint on monster to track them, having no tent so your have limited healing items and things like that.
@@mikeweaver813 I’ve only played 3 ultimate and above so I can’t speak on older titles. I also wouldn’t consider myself a veteran cause there other who have way more knowledge and experience than me. However I noticed that in discussions about realism it always comes down to difficulty/tedious. I don’t believe having 1 unlimited whetstone makes the game any easier or harder than having 20. Same with paintballs, I don’t believe they’re really necessary anymore if realism is the goal. There’s probably a nice balance between simplifying hunt preparation and the make sure you’re prepared for anything crowd but in my opinion it doesn’t matter anymore. P.s I also prefer rise over world cause it more fun to me although world is better.
As a brand new fan of Monster Hunter, this helps explain a lot. I really like World and I don’t like Rise as much. I quite like that they are going to be going back and forth with the game styles though. It will be interesting to see what they continue to make.
kinda funny how world fans are treating rise fans the same way veterans were treating world fans lol
Im literaly veteran who skip world dude 😂😂 am i not veteran enough play MH since 2008 fu.play world yesterday with my friend he though nergigante is so hard man i play world the first and beat nergi in 1st try too haha
As one of those vets i don't understand the issue. Mh on ps2 was the best, second analog stick for weapon attacks was a great idea.
As a veteran I saw World fans as noobs who just discovered MH and grumbled about why this game isn't like Dark Souls.
@@faisaladzikri4870bro played MH first came out as well but please do yourself a favor and play world it’s amazing. I regret not playing it sooner
As a noob i se the old games as a more grindy,harder and more tecnical but world more do waht u want and fuck around tho i have not played taht much of the old games
MAN, BACK IN MY DAY YOU HAD TO POSE BEFORE FINISHING YOUR POTION so I appreciate World and Rise both. My rant is done. Thanks.
Ahh the flex of death xD. Got killed a bunch thanks to that. IN MY DAY YOU HAVE TO BRING PICKAXES TO MINE. Ok my rant also over.
@@soranightgale1851I’m sorry what? You had to bring a literal pickaxe?
@@-LAHTbf to say that Longsword is an offender is like saying that Iframes are just taking attacks and being able to attack immediately after. Longsword is more like an Iframe
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 yes, pickaxes, bug nets, and you had several tiers ( bad to good). Even so all of them had a chance to break so you could have times than even with 6 pickaxes you couldn't get more than 3 or 4 minerals bcs all of them break. Same with bug nets.
Back in my day i have to use the right analog to perform attacks and the L1, L2 and R2 were the buttons for the camera.
Shitty experience
Rise and World are so mechanically different that they cater to different people. Thats one thing I like about Monster Hunter: Theres a Monster Hunter game for everyone.
could you elaborate for someone who never played? What is the difference?
@@robosergTV In Rise, you are able to ride your animal companion all around the map at will and during fights you are nimble and are able to pretty much jump around with lots of verticality using any weapon. In World, you are more grounded and slow, but as a result the environment and monsters feel enormous and each weapon has a more distinct identity since your mobility will depend on what kind of weapon you are using.
The main difference between the games is basically mobility.
After that, I guess its the move customization available in Rise, but again I still think that this only makes each weapon less distinguished from each other.
All other classes laughing at IG because they now can jump around too 🥲
Rise is more accessible and fast-paced while World is more immersive and in-depth.
@@vycelathey might be laughing but IG users can now cross the map in a single jump
Having played the Monster Hunter games since I was a young teen back with Monster Hunter 1, I would consider myself a progressive veteran of the series. What I mean by this is that I like a lot of the quality of life changes that came with later games, especially World. I like the addition of farms to grow materials you need for potions and traps. I like that bug nets, pickaxes, fishing rods and such are infinite now. I like the materials pouch, where you store the things you gather or carve, so you can take more home with you. I even love the grapple claw and the changes to how many of the weapons functioned, like giving great sword and hammer the ability to charge attacks. I love the gunlance, switch axe and charge blade. I even like the more open maps in Rise. As for how people react to things like combat pacing and stuff, people need to remember. Monster Hunter is an entire world, not one settlement that's hunting monsters. Every settlement, every nation has different ways of hunting monsters. In MH1, you were just a guy that showed up to a village one day and started helping out. In Tri, you were requested to come and investigate strange earthquakes bothering a coastal village. In World, you're literally part of a huge commission. A big ass nation funded company of monster hunters, essentially, there to research and investigate the Elder Crossing. Hell, that even helps it make more sense that you're bringing your item box with you. You literally have a handler that COOKS FOR YOU at your camp. Of course you'd bring everything. They are your supply and logistics. They're your handler. YOUR handler. With Rise, you're part of a village with deep traditions. Wirebugs and palamutes are part of their culture. They raise their companions to help with their hunts. The wirebugs themselves promote faster and more flashy fighting. I imagine Wilds will also have its own take on the monster hunting culture and I look forward to it. If we had to compare the cultures, World has more of a Western feel to it while Rise has a distinctly Eastern feel. Not just from the gameplay perspective, but from a speculative geological perspective. After all, in our real world, is the culture of say Japan the same as Brazil? How about Canada and South Africa? Australia and Russia? The world of Monster Hunter is huge. We can expect big differences while still having some familiar things to feel nostalgic about.
While opinions may differ, some players argue that Monster Hunter games on older generations possess a certain charm and purity that is lacking in the newer iterations. The simplicity of mechanics and graphics in older Monster Hunter titles, such as Monster Hunter Freedom Unite or Monster Hunter Tri, allowed for a more focused and immersive gameplay experience. These games relied more on player skill and strategy rather than flashy visuals or complex systems. Additionally, the sense of community and camaraderie among players was stronger in older Monster Hunter titles, as they often required cooperation and communication to overcome challenges. The nostalgia factor also plays a significant role for many, as memories of their early adventures in the series hold a special place in their hearts. Overall, while newer Monster Hunter games offer advancements in technology and gameplay mechanics, some players find that the older titles hold a unique appeal that cannot be replicated.
@@vermoe9590my first MH was MH dos , I have grown with the series , even then , the changes with TRI and 4 had the same reaction, there's no special charm in the older generation games , they were good but most of the "charm" is hardware limitations, some people just like the smell of their own farts
I really really like your out look on this topic...
An in all honesty makes a lot of sense.put that way... Just the saddening gripe is the wire bug. Made the game waaaaaaayyy too easy.
An if your a vet here, I trust you enjoy a challenge. An is prob what kept you with this franchise as it has I for over 20years now
@@damonspang9508 true wirebugs are very op on a lot of weapons. I think it should be just about the wirebug skills of lance where it is not that op but is essential like twin vine, anchor rage or sheathing retreat and having some attack options which is good but not busted.
@@damonspang9508the wirebug and palamutes made the game too easy, but it was a lot of fun. That's why it makes for a great experimental feature in a side title rather than an inclusion in the mainline.
I think of it the same as the weapon arts.
tbh i have so much respect for them that they try different things for each game and makes them unique. i love all of them
Do you rike it?
@@ShitdeoKotjima hehehe yesso
@@MrSandManBringMeADream Arigatou, Con-jima Man.
@@ShitdeoKotjima watashi wa the one who knocks
I do too, but they're not all hits.
You NEED to have the environmentalist trappings to push a MonHun over the edge.
As many have never played the PSP titles before, popping in the UMD, you see a blurb about "enjoying the beauty of nature in a world filled with monsters," and Rise did nothing with that premise at all.
However, World was about making the entire game itself its own unique setting and character. To me, Rise should have been a comeback vehicle for Toukiden.
I love every Monster Hunter game because they are all unique and have their own vision and gameplay aspects. It's great that the MH dev team always want to try something new and keep the series fresh and exciting. I can't wait for Wilds and their take on another new Monster Hunter game.
Shill; that's the emptiest, most corporate-speech answer anybody can copy-paste for a videogame.
You: "I am not exited for anything. PLEASE NOTICE ME MY WORDING IS SO SHARP, I AM COOL AND MYSTERIOUS, ALL THE GIRLS WANT ME. I PROMISE, PLEASE DONT LEAVE MEEEE! I DONT WANT TO BE UNREPLIED AND IGNORED NAURGHHGH!!!"@@GFKCEG
Lmao. The last 2 games are some good content, doesent make us shills. *Just makes me interested in the next one.
@@GFKCEG just imagine that somebody has a different opinion than you.
@@GFKCEGholy shit you're cringe
Does that fence hurt in your hole?
It's definitely crazy to see how many people took sides without knowing the mainline/ portable cycle especially when learning that usually cooled them off
Mh4 was unacceptable only going to portable. I missed out on some foundational upgrades from 3 Ultimate
I clicked on this video purely to comment something like this. So many videos recently of "why are so many people flocking to World!?!?!?" well because World is a mainline release. It's bound to be a "higher" quality than portable, like Rise. There's also an abundance of people that are worried Wilds will be a "step back" like they thought Rise was. A shame how people aren't informed nowadays, especially when they could so easily inform themselves.
@@codydotpngyeah....I have seen a lot of commets of Rise will be new standard of future titles,its not how Monster Hunter works wtf
For me, my dislike of Rise has nothing to do with not understanding why it's different.
I just don't like the portable approach to making MH games.
@@1brushstudio I dislike Rise because it feels lackluster when compared to World. If I think of it as a sequel to MHGU (as that's what it was originally, they began working on Rise on the 3DS first) then it's a damn good step up from what Gen and GU built.
I can say without a doubt though that I'd prefer more releases like World and Wilds, but everyone would. Then we'd be getting huge breaks between releases. World released in 2018? 2019? 6-7 years between World and Wilds. Even with DLC, that's still about a 4-5 year gap. As much as I dislike the portable approach as well, I would definitely dislike huge release gaps more.
I recently started MH World and I'm loving the attention to detail on both monsters and natural environment, it all feels so alive.
I might have been disappointed when trying MH Rise and finding out that it isn't as detailed as World on those aspects.
Thanks to your vid now I understand the purpose and the focus of each game and i know that each one should be experienced with different expectations, with no prejudice and looking at them from a different perspective.
Thanks a lot
So, I remember back in Monster Hunter Unite (psp series) on some maps there was a hot air balloon you could wave at and they'd tell you where the monster was. It wasn't tracked for long but it made the start of hunts faster IF you wanted to farm a specific monster a bunch or something. I think some form of tracking should always be included but I dont hate the scoutfly.
Honestly an easy solution to scout flies would be to just apply their mechanics to the palamute. Basically have the palamute act like a blood hound with less combat application but giving a more robust tracking system. If you choose palicos instead you get better combat capabilities but a more traditional mh tracking system with paintballs making a return. I see no reasons why both approaches can't co exist
Scoutflies are a good system imo. Their implementation in to the wierd cutscene expeditions made them feel worse than they should have
I hate scoutflies. It turns learning the monster's places it is inclined to eat, rest, etc. into another follow the breadcrumbs game. Paintball imho is a great tracking system
@ChrisJames-qi8oekeep yourself safe
@@mangckyatmamon Honestly, I'd agree with you if the missions didn't have a time limit. Like, if I have 15 minutes to track down and hunt a Rathalos that would take me 10+ minutes to kill in an arena without having to chase it around or getting downed, then I definitely don't want to deal with a complex tracking system. Otherwise it might be fun to genuinely track something down... until you're doing it for the 15th time trying to get that one drop you're missing that the game really doesn't want to give you.
As an OG player, I love Rise and MHW. Also, I love MH3 and Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP. The best thing is that they are all still playable in their own way. It's fun to go back and re-try them all.
Their are things from every game that I love, and it really depends on my mood. When I play on the Switch, I LOVE the fast pace play of Rise and how mobile the character feels. I loved being able to mount and control monsters for a short period for extra damage. There is a lot that the game did RIGHT, which is why the experimentation of side games is so important for the series. For instance including a Palamute and Palicoe for solo players was great, I imagine this is something Wilds will try to incorporate. Also the swinging line bug system is AWESOME, it made traversal so much better and funner. It opened up fun exploration game play that took skill to find secret areas. It also made the locations feel like one large area instead of a series of spots and tunnels even though they still are, it felt like one big natural location.
I'd say they should take the Palamute, at least a rudimentary version if bug swinging (even if its something else like swing rope or something), and the more fluid movements are also great. The combat was more engaging and fun, and the skill depth was deep. A skilled Glaive user could almost never touch the ground. However, it wasn't so steep that new players felt useless.
That's just it. Every Monster Hunter game, at least after the first few, seem to do their own thing. Not...completely, it's still the same gameplay loop, and the weapons that carry over between games tend to work generally the same each time. But at the same time, each game is different enough that you can kinda just start on whatever you want and it's fine. You think the slower paced and broken up map sounds fun? Play one of the OGs or MH4U or something. You wanna try a more modernized MH with some kind of plot and modern-looking graphics, and one big map instead of smaller chunks? Play World or Rise. Want a portable MH and don't have a Switch? Play one of the PSP ones.
The only downside for me, is that I'm not NEW to MH, I've played most of them, buuuut I haven't played any one game a LOT. I've done a handful of hunts in each one, aside from the earliest PS2 games and stuff. So trying to figure out where I should actually start to give MH a proper try is a little hard to do when, if you ask the community, every single game in the series is both the best, and worst at the same time.
Normally, I'd just jump in. Do a quick google search to find a game in the series I can start on that doesn't require playing the rest first, and just play. But in the case of Monster Hunter, I know it's a super long and grindy game, especially when you take into account DLC and stuff. I don't particularly want to start one up again, grind out a ton, only to realize it's not for me and I want to try a different one, or to find out the general consensus is that the one I started is ACTUALLY not very good compared to other options or something.
I'm just going to say I really like your take on this. MH is seems to be one of those games with repeatability(if the end game grind can be called that). you can always switch your style of play with weapons and it feels brand new. To think people want the same game over and over again just with updated graphics is insane. The new mechanics make it feel like the different areas the game take place have a different mind set on how they approach hunting. I'm mainly talking about rise and world though cause that's what I know.
Im the opposite - the mobility and quicker pace of combat is one of the main reasons I find Rise (and even world to an extent) so hard to get into.
The entire reason I got interested in MH was exactly because it DIDN'T have fast paced, hack and slash combat, which i find boring as hell. That's why I played MH instead of Toukiden, Freedom Wars, Soul Sacrifice or God Eater. MH was the one series with slow, methodical combat and grounded, survival aspects that focused on the hunting.
Well said
I agree!! Each monster Hunter game has a completely different and unique feel, which is why I go back and play on my old saves all the time.
Also I’m hoping that the bird-dino mount in Wilds is an upgraded version of a palamute, since it already looks like it is from the teaser trailer!
As someone who loves mh4u, the biggest thing modern monster hunter did right to me is modernizing the controls. I have always been a gunner player and it was a godsend to just fix how aiming worked in the new games. I could never fathom fighting rise monsters with the antiquated aiming from older games.
mh4u for me is the best, 2nd is World
@@ronan5894 P3rd is also one of the best one, the gameplay and art direction were pristine ( to me its an improve TRI, no more underwater stuff and they put back fan favorite monster like Tigrex and the akantor/ukanlos). if it got a Grank i would probably considered it to be better than 4U and 3U. one thing that i hate about 4 is the art direction, for me its the ugliest monster hunter out there. yes even mh1 and dos are prettier. 3U i can't judge the game because no matter how many time i try to play it, i'm always bored to death, maybe because of the pacing of the game and underwater sure don't help.
We get it, you sucked and the game being easier to spam items made you better at not dying.
Having to aim the bow or the guns using the D-pad on the touch screen on 3DS was a skill in itself, lol
I'm a HBG Rise player giving MHGU a try and I have to say I'm absolutely mortified with how utterly horrendous the gunner controls are.
I have to find a suitable way to reconfigure the controls or I'm not going anywhere 😔
I'm one of those veterans, I prefer the simulation style of the old games.
but as my responsibility increased along with my age, one failed expedition become a lot more frustrating then dying from furious rajang 10 times in a row
im a veteram but i like the phasing of world and rise, for sure i didnt miss the old playstile, maybe some aspects but in general im good with mh world and rise
I never noticed that distinction between mainline and portable titles, especially since Monster Hunter 4 and its portable counterpart were both on the 3DS, but I have been around since the ancient days of Monster Hunter Freedom, although I only really started playing with Freedom Unite.
It brings me immens joy, to see new players joining the community, I feel like I AM the hunting veteran from world, who sits there, wondering if he should try the slingshot sometime. The guy even wears the armor from the Freedom Unite trailer.
I definitly enjoy World more than Rise, but I also enjoyed FU just as much as Tri Ultimate and I am fine with them experimenting, as long as they always come back to the ecology focus.
This game series has so many heartwarming components, be it the cozy feeling of the villages, the music, the cat kitchens or the greatfulness of the villagers, when you save them. But nothing compares to hunters getting together in the gathering hall, armwrestling, eating and drinking together and one gets up, swings his tankard around and retells the story of how Plesioth Hipcheck Hitbox was the most brutal thing in all of Monster Hunter.
I love this game and its community and once MH Wilds is here, I hope I'll see a lot of you around, for another great hunt. :3
The Plesioth Hipcheck Hitbox in MHFU was fucking wicked. I remember my friends and I making memes about how it would suck you back in.
@@bryceconner2663 Exactly!
@@bryceconner2663 Nowadays we have the Kulve roll.
I enjoy more Rise than World but I love BOTH from the very bottom of my heart. I enjoyed ecology SO MUCH i'm FUCKNG EXCITED with Wilds for that reason.
It's just a matter of preferences.
But the truth here is theres no distinction in "portable" or "mainline" stuff. Basically "portable" means actual "portable" games, like MH PORTABLE to MH Portable 3rd. They're actually "mainline" being P3rd a direct sequel of Tri (MH 3 goes in a separate way). So "mainline" goes from MH to MH Rise and SOME of the titles are "portable". Others like Frontier would be "online" or Stories would be "spin-off".
Every dolphin is a mammal, but not every mammal is a dolphin. As simple as that.
@@ArteGamingHQ that's not at all close to being true. Portable games are arcade only action heavily bent towards weeb Japanese theming. Mainline games are about thought, preparation, and pre historic theming
In Rise, the lore reason there is no tracking, and I think a lot of people miss, is that your Cohoot does it for you. In Rise at the start of every mission you send your Cohoot out, it flies in the sky and tracks the monsters for you, only really knowing the area the cohoot is flying over by revealing that part of the map yourselfer. Rise's hunters are overpowered not because they are strong , but because they have learned to live with and in tune with all the endemic life around them ( Felynes, caynes, Cohoots, wirebugs and even all the frogs, squids, beetles etc. in world you can only kick these endemic life, like the frogs, but the hunters of kamura have learned to pick them up safely to use when needed)
it doing it for you is completely made up, it’s just an explanation for a decision they made
@@vast9467 which could be said the same for nearly any mechanic meant to resemble realism? our scoutflies dont actually find the monster its just an explanation for a decision they made. I feel like the relationship between cohoot and hunter was made pretty clear, i dont understand what you mean by made up?
@@vast9467 Its fine imo, the games serve different purposes. I view Rise as Monster Hunter Lite, something to jump into when you have short time. It's faster paced and more fluid, which is why it's perfect for the Switch. Monster Hunter World is something I play when I have a few hours to sink in, and I am at my PC.
World playin whipper snappers have no idea what it was like, back in my day we had to track a monster by throwing a paintball at it or get high on psychoserums.
@@MrSirFluffy It's also a rly good testing grounds for certain mechanics. A *_lot_* of people loved the AI Followers that did multiplayer's job better in the performance department (not so much in the "goofing off with friends" part, but ehh that's pretty much every multiplayer pve, they make any game feel better)
The doggos and mobility were quite satisfying, since we have a rideable companion shown in the Wilds trailer and we had a test-taste of it with rideable Jagras in World)
Switch Skills were a *_godsend_* and the utilization with wirebugs was so much better than Clutch Claws.
Can't say I liked the Spiribirds but honestly its better than having to wonder in World during expedition *_"I just ate recently, why is my health near nonexistent to 1-shot range..."_*
I started with 3 Ultimate on Wii U. Since then I've played every title. The one I had the most fun with was definitely 4 Ultimate. In many aspects I find it to be quite the nice balance between all the factors mentioned here. It's not too slow but not as fast paced as Generations or Rise. It still has the current weapon roster (IG and CB were great additions imo). It has a large pool of monsters to draw from. Both naturalistic and fantastic. It has a coherent story but doesn't shy away from spectacle when appropriate. It rewards methodical planning but feels much less punishing than previous titles. And so on. While graphical fidelity etc. has obviously increased and it's great to see that the fanbase has expanded to the point that MH id a household name (I heard of it because a friend found japanese videos of MH3 on yt by chance) the recent titles have not quite captured me the same way MH4U has.
Tri on Wii for me. World is the best so far without contest though. No Monster Hunter is bad, but some are better than others.
yeah, 4U was an amazing experience and the game that made me fall in love with the series.
personally i believe it was the story and whacky characters that makes that game so special, who doesn't remember the caravaneer, the aces and guildmarm, and the game put them fron and center instead of shoving them to the side, also how amazing and colorful the game looks, world looks amazing but nothing will ever beat ancestral steppe for me, with the yellow grass, red rocks and the autummnal areas.
I had 3k hours between 2 characters. Probably one of the best endgames with lvl 140 quest. Relic weapons were a must have and is worth grinding Soo long for
@@guilhermecardoso2365the music every time you step into the ancestral steppe was crazy
They dont call it ultimate for nothin.
THe Rise vs World fight is stupid. This is a "Holy cow two cakes!" moment, but people want to fight over everything.
Lmao I love this and am stealing the "two cakes" analogy moving forward
Yeah, when Rise first came out I was mildly disappointed it wasn’t World 2, and that the story was basically not there for a while. But hey, still a fun monster Hunter game with cool environments! And I really like the wire bugs and the endemic life cage!
Human nature to choose a tribe. And not to sound corny, but this who do are less evolved and the pure definition of simple minded sheep
I like Rise combat so much more than world, but world took the cake on the vanilla combat style of mh.
Yeah, I don't get it either. They're both fun games, I started out in Rise and moved on to World- and hey, I like the scoutflies and having to pick up a trail for whatever monster I'm hunting, but I also like the wirebug for movement and combat. I'm just here for the cool monsters and silly anime weapons.
You joined the MH series late right? This phenomenon is especially bad in this fandom. It isn't just rise vs world. Every single release has started a new MH died after x game group. Be it frontier, tri, 4u, gen etc etc. People would argue for hours on gamfaqs and other forums that new game is terrible.
But i think you nailed what the different groups are usually looking for. But i dont think new people not knowing about the dev cycles caused this divide. Just because this was always the case.
complaining and arguing with other players is part of the fun.
I call this the Final Fantasy effect and yes MH suffers from this too has for a while now
I remember starting with Tri and being lambasted as a "Tri Baby" by FU veterans for liking a game with fewer monsters and weapons classes.
…did you included Frontier, an mmo, just to inflate your list? Ffs.
No, this isn’t an issue with this series. FU didnt get any backlash, and neither did 4U or GU. This is just a sad excuse parroted by those looking to dismiss people’s genuine criticisms of World and Rise.
The only entry that actually got backlash was Tri, and that wasn’t just because “new = bad”, it was for real reasons. Tri’s roster was crippled due to an engine upgrade, and it included the very controversial underwater combat. People had genuine issues with it. And I say that as someone who started with Tri and love it to death.
So let’s stop dismissing people’s problems with World/Rise because “people always do this with new MH games”, even tho they very much don’t.
@@CaptainEffort How is it inflating my list when I missed obvious choices like Freedom Unite or 3U, maybe even 2 to increase the list. I chose those games because they're the ones I've played and felt comfortable saying had arguments since I personally experienced it.
Yes they have real problems. I never claimed they didn't. Personally I hate Rise. But monster Hunter will continue as it always has, no matter what I think of rise, or past people thought of mechanics they hated in the old games. The point of my comment wasn't dismissing issues, just disagreeing that these are new ones.
I chalk it down to that each village, kingdoms or group have their own stule of hunting monsters. In World, they're there as explorers which is why they have the clutchclaw and Scoutflies. To explore but then utilized them to hunt as well as can be seen in Iceborne. What was once a trekking tool has been utilized by hunters as a way to hunt after their years hunting in the New World. In Rise, Kamura village uses their surroundings to their advantage. The animals they found like Palamutes and the Owl are utilized into their hunting style where the Palamute serves as a way to traverse faster while the Owl is use to scout out the area and find the monster. They've also discovered Wirebugs which were then utilized into their hunting style. Each gane differ in style because the hunters in said games are hunting in the environments they are given. If they discovered that said thing that is unique to the locale can be used to enhance their hunting then they'd use it so much that it becomes standard and tradition. Going back to my example with World, they first used Clutch claws as a way of traversal so hunters that joined during thst time also did that. By the time of Iceborne, they've discovered that they can use Clutch claw in hunting which then there's a tutorial in teaching how to do that which then becomes standard even to newcomers.
Well put. The way they design the games really makes it feel like these are different areas in the same world.
I just like having a new Monster Hunter game to play each time a new one comes out.
Which leads to the most important question. When's Stories 3?
I hope there will be MH Stories 3 at some point. MH stories 2 was brilliant ^^
I am expecting it around the time of the next mainline game after wilds. It will be a good time.
World would literally be the perfect game if the multiplayer was seamless and easy. Unfortunately playing the games start to finish in multiplayer with someone is a terrible freaking nightmare because you have to leave quests and rejoin them all the time because can't come decided that you have to watch cutscenes before you can actually play with someone.
You didn't have to leave quests and rejoin, you just had to wait while the others were watching the cut scene.
You forgot one group! The one that has played and loved every single entry since the OG and is grateful af that we get to have an IP that is as consistently fun and fresh as this! ...I’m in this group, btw. lol I hope Capcom continues this alternating pattern for years to come! Having two delicious flavors of MH to munch on is a blessing!
Exactly. Why not like both? The massive increase in player base will keep the franchise going and give us more MH goodness.
I'm almost in the same group except I didn't like World. But not for the reasons one might think. I have a very bad sense of direction. World's hub is too large and confusing for me. Let alone the map layout and thick environment designs. I really tried but I just can't. I also hate underwater combat in general(so I skipped 3U). It gives me headaches. I won't call it bad game design. It's just not for me.
Hear hear! I'm more than happy to play more MonHun, however its form changes or stays the same.
Amen brother ..
@@njmontano1625 same, i love world though but im really bad at remembering or recognizing location. it took me 3 years to actually fully remember my route to highschool lmao
I personally like both styles. My main issues with World were the restrictions on co-op, with players having to "see" monsters before calling in help, and the fact it has terrible performance issues. I can see the arguments for the QoL changes. It does feel like busy work having to find whetstone or find each and every individual plant or stone, but making it so easy to acquire also stramlined it far too much.
I'm just glad they aren't being restricted to PSP/3DS and we can finally play on PC after all these years.
I started with World and Rise and loved those games but I went back and played MH4U and ended up loving it even more than World and Rise. It's the same series of games but they vary so much it's almost hard to compare them.
That 3DS is stronk-
It always makes me happy, as someone who started earlier in the series, to see people who started in world/rise go back and play a game that they consider old, and get a little nostalgic because I remember when that game wasn't even out yet. I'm glad you like it, it's my favorite too :)
4U still the best
@@timothyblinn9734 same
4U was my favourite because of gore magala.
First half of the video was kinda slow but very informative, but I gotta say the second half of the video was amazing, you beautifully put into words everything I feel about the existance of World and Rise. The whole division among the different types of fans and how expactations + nostalgia can be a problem, very interesting.
It is pretty much a case study for many types of videogame franchises, and even movie franchises and etc.
I am in the camp of "being 100% sure before hunting" because it does actually feel like we're hunting, mid maxing is fun and all, but i actually do like the story and experience of "hunting" a monster, that being sais GU still stuck a middle group that i am happy with which is why MH GU is still my favourite
Generations Ultimate? How actually is it compared to the rest? I got a Switch only recently, and started Rise, but I saw that Generations Ultimate was on the Switch too, but googling, most people said to just go with Rise over GU. So I went with Rise.
i'm so forgetful, i couldn't play a monster hunter that forces me to be 100% ready
@@TXFDA if you're new to mh id definitely start with another title but if you're looking for a lot of mh content gu is the perfect game for that as long as you dont mind the old systems such as zones and lack of access to all your items from the tent etc
The phrase is "min maxing" not "mid maxing"
@@TXFDA mhgu waa my first game and will definitely be hard at first but once you get this game you get the other games
Definitely get it on sale as these games are always on sale
Just know your going old school with this one
Your not gonna be coddled as much as rise or world and i wont spoil it for you
The heart and Souls of Monsters Hunter is in its grounded fantasy or semi realism and the devs know that. I wouldn’t mind if this was the only design philosophy still moving forward because that is what I enjoy the most, but I also enjoy the less realistic and faster pace Ichinose-style. To me they are just appetizers while I wait for the mainline entries and they do a pretty good job at that.
As long as they keep making MH, I’ll be there no matter what. I hope that now the new fans also realize after Wilds that there’s room for both design philosophies in the franchise.
This is exactly how I feel. I wish others could see that there's room for both.
I think the series would highly benefit from another Frontier-like MMO spinoff
Could not have said it better myself.
I belive you mean the heart of the Monster Hunter games and the "Souls" copy paste games that stole over 70% of the identity and core mechanics of MH since birth
@@Dixie-Normus-True ??????? U good???
As an Oldschool vet, World did a lot of good for the series, but much as the video says, I don't think it was all quality of life. I do like that skills and armor changes have reduced the complexity of assembling an armor set fit for purpose, however it removed depth of armor combinations that I will miss. I love the way that gathering has been changed, the bounties system and removal of managing gathering tools has removed a bunch of grunt work that used to take up a lot of time; it used to be that you'd basically stop taking these things with you once the hunts got difficult enough, and just go on dedicated gathering missions anyway. The auto-crafting on-pickup is a nice change. The access to the weapon box is really cool on expeditions, but it undermines the difficulty of multi-monster hunts in the end game so I'm less of a fan there. The changes to item use animations make a lot of sense now that you cant just pop over to the next area to use your item safely, but the overall removal of a lot of the intentionality and commitment to what you're doing is a bummer for me. I love things like the melder which adds a safety net to the RNG of the game. I love the extra environmental interactions, it makes the battlefield feel alive and in a way, more improvisational. In my opinion the scoutflies feel a little too strong, but I don't really miss paintballing the monster at the start of every engagement so I'd still take scoutflies over the alternative. Overall the worlds format is pretty great, but I do wish they'd make the weapons more visually appealing and varied, and turn up the difficulty and commitment a bit.
Sheesh, finally someone who gets it and articulates it well
@@emblemblade9245 nice comment, you praised him like I wish I could
I started with MHFU and skipped all games until World, I think it's great to have two "sub-franchises": The World/Wilds more realistic approach, and the GU/Rise more fantasy approach. I'm fine with them alternating those between releases
I agree! More is better as long as the quality persists.
I remember watching the Monster Hunter (PS2) E3 2003 trailer on Xplay and being blown away. It was the first time I ever preordered a game. One thing about that trailer was that it made the game seem much more open-world than it ended up being. While I did love the game, I always wished for the franchise to be that expanded world I envisioned back then. World was a huge step towards that dream coming true, and I want them to continue on that path.
Oh yeah, I would love a MH game with such a massive map. It would be a drastic change but I think its for the best.
Your sort of getting close to The Witcher 3 at that point aren't you? A game where you decide what creature to hunt down, make special preparations (potions, poisons, Quen, equipment) then take it out and return to the locals as you move along your journey.
I guess Monster Hunter would cut out all the dialogue and hard decision making. But it sounds like you have a version of what you want already.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 The Witcher 3 isn't my dream game for a few reasons. First, it's designed to be a predominately cinematic experience. Thus, all of the major encounters are heavily scripted events. Second, the world is set a relatively grounded grimdark medieval setting with folklore monsters. While cool, it is a far cry from the primal fantasy world of Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter's world has always been full of ecological and geographic marvels that are visually and mechanically engaging. Lastly, The Witcher 3's combat isn't good.
@@nexus274 All of this. I love the concept of The Witcher, but god I cannot stand playing them.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 But Witcher 3 ain't a game focused on Monster Hunting and the combat is kinda ass. You do kill monsters, but there is no hunt. You can play through the entire game without actively hunting monsters.
This is one of the few series where you can look at two different games, thinking that they will be the same experience, and then realize that each one has its strenghts and flaws. You can like all games for different reason, may it be the slower combat of the old games, the underwater combat of Tri, the Frenzy/Apex mechanic in 4U, the Styles in Generations, the ecology and sense of realism of World or the fast pace of Rise.
Having two teams that alternate themselves on releases is one of the best thing that could happen to this series, because it can lead to big experimentation being quickly implemented from one game to the other, like many of the moveset changes in World took inspiration from certain styles or arts in Generations, and Rise discarded many "old world" characteristic such as the different zones in the map after World changed many things, and personally I can already think that Wilds will take inspiration from certain things from Rise, such as the mount or the speculated ability to change weapon when mounting (you can see the Light Bowgun on the side of the mount) being in a way inspired by the Switch Skill Swap
I really don't get the "World vs Rise" conflict, with both sides discarding the other game for being "worse", "not real MH" or "more boring"
Frenzy was cool. Man I loved 4U.
I started Monster Hunter on PS2 (online) back when all it had for advertisement was a page in a magazine. I love different things about all of the games and I'm so happy to see Monster Hunter gain the success it has without really suffering from that success. Such a thing is rare these days when AAA gaming is in such a laughable state. I'm grateful for what we have. Great video!
Same, it was the first game I played Online on the PS2 when you had to buy that network adapter add on! Good times in the gathering hub. Lance and HBG main back then :)
This video was really interesting to see, although I only understood half of these things fully. It was sent to me a few days ago from a friend of mine who has much more experience in the MH series than me and I only tried out Rise a little and never really interacted much with it in any way, as such I wasn't even aware until now that there was a difference between mainline and portable titles, as you mentioned. Additionally I was a little confused that a fair amount of the actually finding the monster and hunting them were just not present while I had them be mentioned by two friends of mine.
It just was really helpful in one way or another to me and made me get like a better idea of what might be in mh games, so thanks!
Rat, I appreciate you staying impartial in this discussion and giving good arguments for both sides. It’s very refreshing to see someone willing to look at both sides of the coin especially in a debate like this
That Tzitzi detail is really cool. Too bad it literally never came into play because by the time the hunt moved to its home turf, it's head was already broken so it couldn't flash...
Bro, you're telling me TziTzi NEVER wandered into a fight you were having at an inopportune time to flash you & the monster you were fighting?
😂 You couldn't have done that much hunting in the Coral Highlands then! Then again, I put 3000 hours into MHW + Iceborne, so I definitely saw a lot of things most casual players haven't.
@@Secret_Takodachi That's...not what I'm saying at all. Although, in my experience, Tzitzi is a welcome ally any time he shows up while I'm hunting something else, so that's also not entirely incorrect. Do any other monsters even go to Tzitzi's home turf?
@@Secret_Takodachii dont think you got his point but ok veteran
@@Nyahahamehathey dont wanna get flashed, both by light and.... yeah thats it
@@Secret_Takodachi Learn to read
Gen 1 hunter checking in. I definitely prefer a lot of what World did, and enjoy when the series leans more to ecology/realism. The old style of game definitely has elements worth keeping, but there's also plenty of streamlining World brought that was good. Iceborne maybe went a tad too far with clutch claw and mounts, but overall base World did a lot right, although maybe easing back on access to healing in some form or fashion could be nice.
My hope with Wilds is that we'll see a mix of the old and new. I'd like to see towns, to act as our overall out of quest hubs. Camps/outposts to act as reset points between hunts. And then some form of portable camping setup with hopefully some level of limited storage/inventory that would be on our mount. This could encourage going out for stretches, hunts, with limited tools, but still some access. Resetting between at outposts to resupply, and then eventually heading back to town when done. Maybe taking on multiple quests to be complete in-between returning, adding in elements of exploration and survival out in the wilds, etc...
Iceborne was terrific
Mounts. ALWAYS. Ruin games. No. I don't want to play a game where I drive a fantasy car. I'd rather walk.
Clutch claw made me uninstall. Ruined the base game. Still fucking angry about that.
@@TrickZ_Retz I have fought without the claw. That's how I fought before Iceborne and how I fought before I got used to using the claw. I like it personally. The claw attacks look cool and I like that wall bangs enable consistent damage and knockdowns.
Iceborne blew ass. @@treacherousjslither6920
I love your idea of going on long journeys involving several hunts. I think it could be an interesting change to the original fight/ base/ upgrade weapons loop. I know they probably made it work the way it does for a reason, but I do like the idea of going on a bit more of a journey.
I really freaking loved both. I hope silkbind attacks make a comeback. The new move additions are awesome.
Great video, very well articulated and good dichotomies in the community to discuss.
I personally started in Generation 4 with MH4U and had an absolute blast primarily due to what you discussed regarding the grounded feeling of the sim aspect. I loved that if you're going to go out on a big hunt you had to spend 30-45 minutes getting all your equipment and items, then methodically make your way through the zones to where you thought the monster would be based on it's phenotype and the area's ecology. I loved that feeling fighting a monster, then drinking your last mega potion and having to flee into the undergrowth to scrabble together some more herbs and honey or you'd die. I loved that if you underprepared you paid the price of 30 wasted minutes with no rewards and learned your lesson (or didn't if you were like me for the first few hours). I'm aware that to many MH fans, me starting in the 4th generation still makes me a relative newcomer and that MH4U still had plenty of changes that true old hunters didn't appreciate at the time either.
I do really enjoy World specifically due to how grounded movement still feels and the knockout job they did with the environments, but still lament the loss of those more in-depth sim aspects. I am sad that now if you run out of supplies, no worries, you can just nip back to camp and restock everything. It's still a bit upsetting to me that now you can jump into a quest immediately with no preparation of your equipment and simply change it 10 minutes in when you realize you should have brought something else. It somewhat reduces the respect you have for the monsters when you don't have to put any of that deliberate planning into taking them down and makes it more video game-y and less like an actual hunt. All that said, I still love World because despite my opinions on these changes from the old formula, those exact changes are what made the game accessible enough that many of my friends that had bounced off earlier titles were able to finally click with the franchise! Despite my gripes I still put over 800 hours into the title so those changes clearly weren't enough to make me bounce off.
Obviously based on the above I didn't love Rise because it went even further from the old formula but I didn't hate it by any stretch. I found the high mobility from wirebugs eliminated the positioning requirements and pacing that even World still required to some point, the wirebug moves felt generally overtuned, and the spiritbird collecting felt like an arbitrary, game-y form of preparation that felt tedious after just a few hours. Despite all that, I still found it to be a simple, easy, fun, and flashy 20 hour experience that I enjoyed quite a bit, but didn't enjoy enough to purchase Sunbreak and that's fine. Not every game in a franchise should be the same or there would be no reason to make new ones. I'm glad the Monster Hunter team is still willing to take risks and experiment on new gameplay mechanics to see what works and what doesn't. I can confirm though that out of those friends that finally got into Monster Hunter via World all bounced off of Rise for feeling like it was too floaty, easy, and not grounded enough, and they speak about it with some amount of venom. I still find that amusing coming from the older games and feeling some of those feelings about World.
Ultimately I'm very much looking forward to Wilds and am still excited to give the following Generation 6 portable title a go as well and see where they go with it. Monster Hunter is Monster Hunter and the old titles will always be there to kick my ass and make me appreciate both their designs and some of the QoL elements added in later titles.
As someone who started with World, I do definitely understand the want to remove the technically infinite restocking at camps, but at the same time I think we could instead have a happy mid point where maybe we could have the Camp box have a limit to it, so you have to actually pick what to have available for restock at camps with a limit on how many items can be in the box rather than having your whole inventory available.
I think they should only allow you to restock once, where guiding lands should be infinite since you dont have to return until you are done and want to get your rewards. But for mainline missions and optionals Yeah, whats the point of being prepared if all you have to do is farcast out in a pinch after running through all your max pots, ancient pills and max pills within the first 5 minutes. you should be punished for having to do that in the first place.
That's literally how the old campbox worked. In low rank you would get a set of supplies, healing items, stamina restorers, ammo, and even throwables that the monster was weak to, in HR this just turned to healing items and stamina restoration items. In G rank you got nothing.
In 4 and the Cross games you actually had subquests that would get an additional fill of these items, like if you killed a number of smaller monsters, or if you knocked over a large monsters once or twice or broke a part.
or just not. world would have been perfect to put greater emphasis on being in touch with the land and gathering your own supplies while out on a long hunt.
I think the proper fix to this would be to remove the ancient tree mechanic and all the other stuff that just gives you infinite supplies, I think it would be better if you actually had to go exploration to collect materials for a hard hunt and then you would think twice about just spamming your items and only use them when you really needed them.
I know in the modern era most people would react violently to a change like this but personally I think it adds a lot to the game, they would need to make it so you do gather stuff a bit faster probably but I despise how the ancient tree and other mechanics make it so you have virtually infinite of every item.
@@saltiney8578 mate, i already consider drinking potion wasteful. Val set for life, litereally
As someone who loves both older games and newer ones in the series, I think a healthy mix of things from both would be great.
For example, I loved how older gens made you really think about how you approached a hunt, and not every loadout would help you in every situation. Sunbreak is my favorite in terms of gameplay, but I feel like for the next game, we should start leaning away from relying on strictly the hunter's moveset. It doesn't matter which monster you're fighting, Strongarm Stance will carry in every hunt in the whole game, to give an example. I miss when your strategy revolved around the items in your bag and the terrain around you during the hunt.
MH4U was my first MH game. I once batted a Velocidrome so far into the air that it got stuck in the overbrush, and I had to climb up and spike it back down to earth. I want people to be able to experience moments like that again.
I despise the ancient tree, and the hunts and all that stuff that give you infinite resources, I want to actually go on an exploration to prepare my supplies for a hard hunt not just have virtually infinite of everything.
Bru, who is going back to the camp to restock? The feature is for if you forgot to bring something, forgot to eat or forgot to change equipment, so you don't need to waste time going back to the hub world and starting the mission over.
And by the the way most of the time the reason of failure is not running out of health potions.
As a veteran from Freedom Unite/Tri, I do miss the "come prepared beforehand" aspect of the older titles, and wouldn't mind a little bit of that coming back into the franchise, like a limited amount of supplies at camp. I definitely understand where people are coming from, that this "everyone gets a counter" mindset should stay in the arcade-like titles. But in all honesty, I love both sides of the franchise and regardless of what side any title leans towards, I'm going to play the fuck out of the game.
I also played since FU and liked that aspect too but I have enjoyed to see where the franchise is headed. I have little to complain and always viewed MHW as a natural progression for the series. I personally think that something that MH could gain from in Wilds would be perhaps a revision on underwater combat and ecology as that adds more to the realism.
Started with 4U/Gen. If there's anything I want to remain a design philosophy alongside the semi-realism, it's definitely that preparation aspect
Yeah let’s have maps where your health just constantly drains unless you farm a bunch of special little drinks so you can pound one ever 2 minutes during the fight and also if you forget them you’re just fucked and have to abandon the hunt. That would really help me get more immersed in the world.
@@xIQ188x having to worry about my pickaxe and bugnet self destructing after 5 uses really helped me really feel like i was a monster hunter
@@xIQ188xyou say that but in world the very item you need to make thise cold drinks were always in the same map near the areas that were hot/cold
By the time Monster Hunter really hit its stride as a series I had mostly stopped playing console games. World was my first exposure to the series after waiting over a year for a PC port. Then Rise came along and I had to wait again for it to be ported from Switch. The part that excites me the most about Wilds is I don't have to wait for a port. PC sales of Capcom games have proven to be very good in recent years so it's just going to release on all modern platforms, hopefully that also means crossplay so friends don't have to figure out which version to get to play with each other.
You nailed this one. I started with MH3U and basically loved every game until World, which had a large number of changes I was either mixed and neutral on or outright thought made the game experience worse. From the basic graphical design, lighting, changes to weapon movesets, multiplayer structure, the slinger and clutch claw, mantles, daily and weekly bounties, time limited events, the smaller number of monsters in the base game that also felt a lot more similar to each other, and so on, there were really a lot of things that felt like they were taking away from what I liked about the older games. Thankfully they did address a number of my issues in Iceborne. Rise was a return to form in a lot of ways and that made me much more immediately positive on it, even though I ended up playing it for a lot less time because I spent a lot of time playing World with friends and my friends didn't get into Rise as much. Still looking forward to Wilds!
Basically everything you're saying World fans feared about Rise representing the future direction for the series, I felt with World. It made so many changes I disliked that I thought "well, if the future games go even more in this direction, I don't know if I'm interested anymore".
Graphical design and lighting, what? I get being mixed on some changes, but acting like World's graphics, world design, lighting, etc, are anything but an improvement from older series is just silly.
@@Zayl1016i think he's referring to the more "generic ps4/Xbox graphic style" of world, to which i agree to some extent, but still think that MH as a whole should be a bridge between the "realism" and "flashiness," reason that made me like Risebreak, and has me hyped for Wilds.
@@Zayl1016 Idk about lighting, but as an old fan myself I agree with the "graphical design" and being very specific all the sparkles everywhere, old games didn't have any lights that weren't electricity or flames, while starting on World there's so many flashy lights it just comes as ugly but I have to be clear this is purely a personal preference thing
To be even more specific the scoutflies don't look like something "Monster Hunter-y" and they look too much alike like other similar features found in other games specially for the PS4, Hitting a monster with your weapon didn't result in flashes but in blood and collectable items didn't have a light to them they blended with the environment perfectly tho this last one was a necessary change just from the environment having so much more detail
Question : the core of MH is still the gameplay. How Rise is a return of older gameplay ? How it is a balance return to something an OG know ?
The mobility options offered in Rise were so transcendental to my enjoyment of the game that I'm genuinely bummed for an hour or two every time I go back to World. I love being able to ride the Palamute to quickly transverse the map. I love being able to do flying ninja shit with the wirebugs. I love being able to do spectacular wirebug moves.
But on the same token, I'm bummed, coming from World to Rise, about how much more barren the levels are. World is so much more "alive", and I feel like I find something new or beautiful in every stage every time I go on an expedition. I like that I don't automatically just know where every monster is on the map as soon as I load in, and I have to actually find evidence of where the monster has been before I can work out where it's going. The Graphical Fidelity is also amazing. It's just a beautiful game.
Both have so much to offer, but if I only had one to play for the rest of my life (and thankfully that's not true), It'd be World.
This topic has a lot of nuance behind it and it's pretty interesting to talk about. One thing I noticed is that the Western MH community was mostly created around the portable series, before World MH fans mostly played FU 3U 4U and Gen, and even with 3U and 4U being mainlines they took a lot from the portable games because they were 3DS titles, 3U even feels more like a sequel to P3rd than a sequel to Tri sometimes. So when World came and tried to return to the feel of MH1-3, a lot of people at the time actually thought it was too different and "didn't look or felt like MH". Rise was at first seen as a "return to form" too when it was coming out. I think that's also the reason why all these gameplay changes were named "quality of life" since everyone was focusing on the gameplay loop of just hunting monsters that we had with portable entries. There's a lot more I want to talk about but this comment is big enough as is so I'm stopping here, but as I said it's a really interesting topic.
I agree. I didn’t really know that there was a schism in MH design philosophy until I watched this video. Its made me examine my own relationship with the various games in the series in a way I have not done before
That's......an interesting point.
Also don't forget for the western world it is harder to making a destinction between the psp portable versions because as you said 3 and 4 were on portable devices but between 3 and 4 there was no portable version (Freedom) release either and when that line came back the named it Generations as they probably decided at that moment to ditch the numbering which made the differences even more confusing to follow. And they completely muddled the waters with Rise also releasing on PC and consoles, where all previous portable version only released on portable devices.
It's also of note that the western MH community was a lot smaller before World. So it makes sense that the western people who liked older games like the portable style, but now all the people unknowingly yearning for some more of that mainline style don't want to let it go either.
Anyway, I like that they keep both styles in parallel, but maybe they should just make the distinction more clear so people from both sides don't get riled up.
@@flavionms another interesting point is that westerners usually like home console experiences while japan is way more into portable gaming. Portable series would always sell better than mainline until World because that's what Japan likes more (portable 3rd being MH's best seller before World and Mainline moving to portable consoles to appeal the japanese audience). I think we're gonna see the next years Mainline MH will be the "western game" made to sell for a global audience (something World was already doing) and Portable series will be more focused on selling for the japanese audience, next portable game will likely be coming out for switch's successor and pc with steam deck verified.
There's probably more people hating on Rise than World and older games right now but when MH Wilds comes out there's gonna be those that hate on it on the basis that it's not like Rise
Considering that world is more popular and assuming wilds will be very similar to world I imagine the people making those complaints are going to be laughed out of the room.
A bigger argument I could see is taking something from rise and everyone complaining about it
@@badasscrusader tbh there isn't a ton from Rise I want to keep >.>
@JustSpag well we know were keeping something similar to the dogs in rise,and that's probably the best thing that was from rise so who knows
@@badasscrusader hmm...so i wouldn't mind something *else* that functions like a palamute, but if secondary companions are going to be introduced, then it needs to either be a one-off for a new region, or within the setting it needs to be framed as an innovation. Perhaps some breakthrough in breeding.
@@Nehezir Honestly there's nothing from world I want to keep in regards to gameplay. The environments were cool, but as a dual blades main, my best attack relying on me sliding or being by a cliff made the gameplay sluggish and boring as hell, even for the fastest weapon in the game. Rise introduced so many good tools and diversified so many movesets that I genuinely loved utilizing, unlike spending an hour before a hunt gathering barrel bombs and other stuff.
I'm one of the 7 or so people in North America who pre-ordered MH1 a thousand years ago and played every English release since. These fights have happened after every single release. I remember people in line at conventions playing their PSPs and getting in to vehement arguments about the minutiae of the games. I think it's fine and healthy for the community, honestly. Eventually, good ideas and bad ideas get filtered and the games have always been enjoyable. The experimentation is part of what made the series not die after the first entry, and it's great that they try new things.
The only group of fans who are objectively incorrect and need their opinions disregarded are the ones who want water combat to come back. I don't care if Tri was your first MH game, y'all need Monster Jesus.
I agree but Ceadeus was so good.
I’m glad that I’m in the extreme minority of MH fans that appreciates both the obsessive attention detail in the ecology, world building, and continuity in general but also a degree of innovation. I started the series with MH3U on the 3Ds and, I won’t lie, I was so terrified of the monsters that I kind of wussed out of it before I even got to High Rank, and I had more than 2000 hours on that thing (let that sink how much of a puss I was back then). I fell in love with the world of MH, not the gameplay, but it’s a badge of honor as a gamer to actually master any of these games. Now that I’ve played both World and Rise-which delved even more deliciously into this world while making the mechanics less frustrating-I can go back and play the older titles as an added challenge. To me, the gameplay and the world are integral to each other, so I don’t understand the animosity in the MH community. World is a massive accomplishment in expanding the MH lore and making it more open world and natural-feeling while Rise legitimately makes you feel like a badass, anime character AND it fleshes out NPCs more. Personally, I love the MH series as a whole without prejudice.
Idk, now and then i still play world, helping randoms to kill alatreon and fatalis, i haven't touch rise in months, i mean i had fun playing rise, but i gravitate towards world naturally.
As one of those old fans who began the series with Tri, the biggest thing for me that I want to see return is the old armor skill system. So many times in Sunbreak’s I’ll build a set with 3-4 specific skills in mind and end up with a Serg that had 5-6 extra skills all with solid amounts of points that I wasn’t even going for. The whole system feels very overclocked and I’d like to see a more streamlined skill system that makes you have to really weigh how much different skills are wroth pursuing again.
@@drypotato6990the old system is literally just basic addition and substraction. I could understand the problem being that new players are just too lazy to optimize their sets, but not that most people jumping in from world are utterly incapable of basic primary school math.
I like math and I played since 3U but I'd rather not have them like in the old games.
It gets cumbersome to eventually defaulting to athena's armor set search to make armor builds.
No.
I’m an old MH fan and I’ll give my two cents. I started playing MHFU in around 2011 when a cousin introduced it to me on his PSP. I have very fond memories of that time. The game was unforgiving, they had no tutorial. It was also very difficult to find guides for any particular hunt. I remember needing help with our good ol’ Nargacuga when I first met him. There were no guides on YT besides this one 144p video of a Japanese player dunking on G -rank Narg in under 10 min. So I basically sat for hours staring at my screen trying to guess at what they were doing. Very fun times indeed.
I have since played almost all MH games and love the series very much! I’m not very big on fandoms in general so I was completely unaware of this… division?, conflict? between MH rise and MH world fans. Sorry but it just seems idiotic to me. As well stated by the video, we’ve known the MH developers have two separate teams for portable and console entries. And that has been true for a while now, but the differences between them became more apparent to us players when 4th gen released. This point is, actually, the only explanation that I think was missing in this otherwise good video! 4th gen was a… unique period in MH (to put it kindly haha), mainly because the series was solely portable for a while, coupled with some exclusive japanese releases relating to Cross and Double Cross that had some of us Western fans feeling rather down. 4th gen also introduced new mechanics relating to vertical mobility and monster designs that were wholly fantastical in approach. All the while your characters was zapping around the arena looking like an anime protagonist.
So to me, new fans commenting on this “conflict” saying Rise was a “departure from form” just sounds silly, and it shows they have no idea what they are talking about. Rise was, if anything, a step down from the previous hand held titles, trying to take the best that Double Cross and World had to offer. It’s pretty normal to like one more than the other. Some of my friends who have played MH for as long as I have play almost exclusively the portable tittles, while I always enjoyed the down to earth style of MHFU and Tri. This has never been a problem before, we all love MH equally.
Well said. Rise very much felt like a merge of classic hunter and world. I think it missed it's steps but it did introduce some very interesting concepts to the series. The wirebug mechanic and movement system is as fluid as it ever has been. And Palamute are very fun to ride.
For me personally, I prefer the old methodical and slow combat as opposed to this new style of the games. I enjoy having only the inventory I bring along during quests. It made the games feel far more brutal and less forgiving. I learned monsters movements and when the best time was to let off a GS charge. Opposed to new games where I can swing much wilder than I ever could before.
I'll keep playing the new ones because they're still great. But classic hunter is where my heart is. And with the community edition of Frontiers. I have plenty of classic hunter to play. It's a shame so many monsters from frontier died in that game and haven't been seen since.
Disagree with rise being a step down. It's what introduced more verticality and removed nuisances of traveling as well as negative gameplay of throwing a paintball every so often. I liked world but it felt too slow with how the maps are structured which caused more downtime every between fights. And while yes such things like l cloaks and claw are not mandatory since it makes it too dam easy, I still never saw the point of adding it. You can argue that Rise wirebugs are OP but the monster movesets are catered around that and has wirebug punish moves for the trigger happys. The moveset of the earliest Rath fight alone in Rise would be hella annoying to fight in World coz thats just how it was designed, hell even in MHX the downtime between moves of monsters are shorter than it is in World since it's closer to MH4U combat. World just has more cinematic feel to it but MH has never been about that, it's always about the gameplay and combat which Rise delivers muuuch better than World
i think a big part of the old vs new fans likely is that attention span as gone down as we have evolved tech. tiktok, youtube shorts etc. so new fans likely want action and only action jumping from monster to monster while older players might like that there is more "world building" and dont mind it taking a bit longer to hunt a monster and can really feel the immersion
What are you thought on being able to restock supplies at the tent? That's a quality of life feature that came at a great sacrifice, making hunting preparation much less complex and nuanced while making you feel less like you're out in the wild against impossible odds. I'm sure they'll keep this feature, but I hope not more such QoL features will follow that eventually make things feel less weighty and important.
@@JNoel-zx8xb Also I would like to add the reworks to Rathalos, Teostra and Kushala to give some examples are FUCKING INSANE.
I was sick of fighting the same Kushala for five generations straight, but that tornado shit remembered me when it was MANDATORY to have wind resistance or bringing a friend with a hammer or you're just fucked.
Not unbalanced or unfair but you need to actually pay some attention on ass-old monsters even if you're on your 1000th Teostra hunt and can basically no-hit it in every game he appeared. Very pleased with that.
I haven't reached master rank in Rise yet, but I'm eager to see which new moveset old monsters will have.
I just got into monster hunter for the first time from MHN and I have been wanting to play a real, non-mobile game and all I could find about Rise and World were people bickering over which was better and I was so confused. This was so helpful. I got Rise a couple weeks ago, but based on this, I'd like World a lot more
As someone who started with GU just before gettting into World, I can appreciate all three archetypes, even if I understand full well that I have a preference for World. I appreciate the love and care the team put into the design of monsters, their environments, the ecology and the like. And I found myself captivated by how it felt like the first game I ever played where I felt the need to hoard EVERYTHING. Seldom do you find a material or item you won't need later. Everything is useful. In my personal experience, when I jumped into World, I felt like alot of the gripes that I had with GU were dealt with. World's combat is definitely simpler to understand. I wanted the ability to change weapons mid-hunt, and I got that. Radial Menus made accessing items much easier, as someone who plain has a hard time focusing as it is, being able to muscle memory a couple of flicks to throw out a dust, drop a trap, or ready a flash has allowed me to be a more opportunistic teammate.
Being able to move while using things like potions doesn't completely remove risks, and roll-cancelling to dodge an attack can actually punish you for being impatient, using the item and gaining little to nothing; similar to picking the wrong time to heal in an old world game, if only a bit more forgiving. Radial crafting is also a godsend for gunners: it allows them more uptime on doing damage instead of sifting through menus mid-hunt to make ammo. I have jumped into GU again and when I do, I can acknowledge and even say "I'm so used to being babied by world, lol" but it in no wise causes me to feel like GU is unfun. I was actually able to utilize a lot of what I learned from World to become a better hunter than I had been initially, and that made me feel more confident. It made me appreciate the "quality of life" changes, but again, I also wouldn't paint it as inherently better design. In World/Rise, I often less restock for myself as I do to ensure I have enough dusts and powders for teammates. I'm a very cooperative/team oriented player.
That said, each one has their strengths and flaws. And when I see people spiting one of the games, I try to offer the opinion that it is just a different experience, and that none of them are better or worse than one another. I personally have had a hard time enjoying Rise nearly as much as I do World. World combat is definitely less fast-paced than Rise. It feels like an even ebb and flow or a dance, where as, I often describe Rise as "Anime beat-em-up" Monster Hunter. It feels like it's either you or the monster are wombo comboing one another, with little of an in-between occurring, less so in base game, and more come Sunbreak. If we look at the distribution of skills and mechanics, Rise clearly leans into encouraging players to time i-frames or use counters / super armors. Until recently, I had a proclivity to guard or tackle everything (Greatsword Main here) and while that definitely worked in World, it doesn't fare the same in Sunbreak. I understand there's a lot of attacks I need to learn, and it's not the same game in many regards. To a degree, I understand I need to invest the time and have to get good, and some people aren't going to be happy about facing that and swallowing their pride.
I have 3k hours in world and basically everything I could need. To some, that's outrageous, and to others, that's rookie hours. I don't say that to boast, but, I think to some degree, there's going to be people who turn back to World if their save file is beefier and they feel more accomplished and confident there. I have nowhere near that much time in Rise. The advent of MH coming to PC has brought along with it the option to use things such as Hunterpie to gauge your damage output, and it's easy to feel like you aren't good at the game if you're not in the top half. I bring this up because, while confidence hunting with others could always be an insecurity even before dps charts (feeling like you're being carried or not doing your part)-- I'm sure many players suffer that same feeling with that tool's introduction and ease of access as well. The easy answer is "don't use it" but, if you've ever seen it, you're already in too deep. Ultimately, seeing those numbers is what made me a better player in World and to strive to improve, and be able to carry my own weight, but it was initially demoralizing. To get to the point I'm at on this paragraph though: I suspect some people spite Rise in particular because they simply haven't put in the time to catch one file up with the other and it makes them feel like they're not the hunter they think they are. It isn't fair to yourself to compare one save file to another, least of all two games that play so vastly different.
GU is by far my favorite honestly, it was so wonderfully gratuitous.
@@CrashKaiju Yeah and make no mistake, I actually came to love GU more when I went back to it from world. I love the sandbox of skills and playstyles that MH has to offer, and GU has those in spades. As GU was a loveletter to the franchise, being able to experience most of the cast there, having not played the older games, helped me to get to know a good chunk of the roster.
Damn, thanks for taking the time to type out this whole thing. As a rise only, it's interesting to hear veterans opinions and memories of old games, and geeze, i thought I was hot shit for having 350 hours or so, but 3k!? "Rookie numbers"? I definitely got much to learn, and hunt lol.
I miss the old tracking system so much, it felt like a really mastery thing, walking around lost when i was a noob trying to find the monster, going to knowing where the monster usually spawns and using paint balls and such, by the end of my time playing MH4U i didn't even take paint balls with me, i knew where the monsters were, i knew the maps the went to try and eat to recover, i knew where their nests were and all that, it felt awesome. The change with bug nets and pickaxes is a much needed one, but the camp resupply kinda makes it too easy like said in the video. Honestly the only thing that i really dread making a return in MH Wilds is the Clutch Claw Meta. Idk if it felt like to to other people but i felt like after the clutch claw was released there was NO reason to make any other type of build besides affinity/weakness exploit.
Actually another thing i dread coming back from World is Worlds weapon designs, i really really hate the design of like, 98% of the weapons from MHW
you must understand with the new engine that is started from World
the modern MH was basically a reset, they need time, to adjust and prioritize the thing they envisioned as "good gameplay"
even though some people would not agree
people like history lesson as they themselves become history and gets older
it's just nostalgia
@@Ghanzza bro I agree
MHW weapon design are just mid
I had to rely on mods to change those generic looking weapon.
They sacrifice the time to design weapon, and allocate more for the environment... I can't blame them though. It's just a trade off
Like how the Affinity /WeX was the meta before the clutch claw was introduced?
Me to on the last part and I loved the old tracking system
Great video! A lot of food for thought here.
I started with Tri , so I'm a weird outlier when I say I actually enjoy all the games for being different in some ways to each other.
Though admittedly, I like World the most for it's longevity and looks.
ey started in tri too. I really like world too best one so far although.... I wish they would have used some of the old weapon designs, as some of the old monsters got weapon downgrades. For example barroth one of my favorite monster and weapons got shafted with its lance that is not even close to the design they already had in tri. what's your thoughts on them changing old weapons to less fantastical things?
Hey, another hunter that started in Tri!
For me, World hit almost every spot. I was missing one of my favorite monsters, Agnaktor, but apart from that, it was perfect.
Rise on the other hand...it was a bunch of little things. For example, after coming from the rich meals in World to just Dangos felt kinda pathetic.
Also, World felt like an actual world with creatures, while Rise felt more...mystical, for lack of a better word. Now, this might have been better for some, but I liked the Explorer-style of World more.
I can still appreciate both, but I would rather have World over Rise any time.
@@Wolftatze I kinda agree with you right there but I'll never forgive World for shafting the Switch Axe and the Sword and Shield controls and while I agree World's environment is overall better there's also stuff Rise does better, tho let's be honest here both Rise and World share the same DNA so most of my gripes with modern MH can be found in both games
The vision they presented in that Barton cutscene is the first experience I had with the monster hunter franchise and it’s just… perfect
I’ve always used that video as my basis for the direction I want the game to go in
Hey! I remember streaming games with you back when Rise came out. I see the Monster Hunter community is going to continue having this mainline vs portable and old vs new world argument in perpetuity!
You did hit the nail on the head on what people like about the old world games. The pacing, especially in single player, really made you slow down and take in the environment. Starting in world it just started to feel like a race to get to the next monster. I'd love to see some of the old school elements come back a bit.
I actually feel like World embraced checking out the vistas, collecting pets, finding cat doodles, looking for tracks... I felt like Rise was the "race to the monster with your spiderman powers" game and maybe that's why I didn't enjoy it that much.
Humans don’t have as sophisticated opinions as they think. A lot of times it’s just “I personally enjoy this more” but it comes out as “THIS BETTER”
Self centered internet opinions innit
@@OnionTheBat That's what a World fanboy would say
The MH dev teams are awesome. It's good to see how much care they put into their games.
I’m really curious as to how they will approach wilds. After the success of World and Rise I’d imagine they’ve had heaps and heaps of feedback. I for one enjoyed world, but would appreciate some of the mechanics and systems of past games returning to add to the complexity, stuff like the tracking. It could be a mix of the two, could be more movement oriented, more punishing, who knows.
The approach seems similar to world, basically trying to really make monster "hunter" Like world with organic and live environment where you can feel living world instead of monster "fighter" like rise where it's more of a boss rush and just fight
@@jacqli9315 i hope its something that combines both aspects of world and rise in to something greater. i fully except there to be a wirebug like mechanic in a new monster hunter like game and a creature you can ride on for more faster traversal aand a some kind of a clutch claw but the monsters can counter those more effectively than in either game. i also except even more focus on the environment and ecosystem while still keeping the game itself fun.
@@mpo48 I really dislike the wirebug mechanic it makes the game more dmc hack and slash, the speed bumped up too much and didn't feel as realistic as world tbh
I wish wirebug never came back, same with the forced riding with the wirebug
@@jacqli9315 i wish it will come back and it obviously will just because i love seeing people complaining about it.
@@mpo48 we should bring all the clutch claw tenderizer, and all skill from hunting styles while we at it if that what u want
Been playing worlds for so long that a friend of mine gifted me the rise to try it out, and immediately I fell in love with rise due to one function I'm absolutely looking for in worlds: which is the Pause button. Wish they keep putting that function in the future of Monster Hunter series. Always need the pause button whenever I'm hunting alone to relax.
World is easily my favorite MH, and Rise doesn't scratch that itch for me, and I think it's because I come at MH from a more Dark Souls-like perspective, I love that clanky gritty combat, and a lot of folks love the high octane stuff in Rise.
It's really just up to personal taste and both sides need to accept not all games will be for them, there are two completely different groups lol
started in rise, then played world. i honestly can't tell which i like more. i like spending hours in an immersive world in... world, but i also like the incredibly fast paced combo-focused gameplay of rise. i think they're both brilliant games, but i can understand why ppl don't like either.
I got started with world and got around 150 hours but when I got rise I thought it was fun and now I got 300 hours in it but I love the ecological aspect and hope to see more of it on wilds
I started with Rise and then tried World. Both are very different, but I think neither game is "objectively" far better than the other.
I personally prefer Rise by a lot, but that's mainly due to my own preferences in games. I prefer the simplified non-realistic graphics of Rise, because World's graphics kind of overwhelm me (and my graphics card), too much (especially non-relevant) stuff happening. I like that Rise's hub is easier to navigate (I really don't like the walks through the base in World) and that prep in general is a bit quicker - makes it easier to just jump into a hunt when I have a bit of free time. My personal power fantasy in video games is more about mobility and less about wielding slow and heavy stuff, so, quiet naturally, the faster paced higher mobility combat of Rise is more up my alley.
I first played the WiiU game, so I'm not really a veteran, but at least knew and loved the game before "World".
I think that the way they streamlined certian things was done absolutely perfectly in "world". They hit that perfect sweet spot.
"World" really was quite a perfect game.
Watching world babies shit on rise fans like veterans did on world fans is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Even funnier when I'm pretty sure that half of these people don't even understand the difference in mainline/portable design philosophy that has always existed, which is the core of the argument between them. I don't remember this kind of hatred between 4U and GU enjoyers, when I feel like those games had a lot of similar distinctions as world/rise.
Thank you for making this video, it's very well said and highlights several of the main issues that crop up when discussing MH. It might be more evident now, but these divisions are pretty deeply rooted in the community, and go further back then the start of fifth gen. If you study the games closely, and the history of their discourse, you'll realize there've always been these sorts of trends. It's not new and is intertwined with conflicting interpretations over the identity of MH.
There are many reasons for my channel's name, I had decided on it before the release of MHGen, and I think this video helps capture a decent number of them. Ultimately, I've been hoping more people would embrace the series as a whole, rather then getting so caught up in which titles are "the only ones worth playing." Maybe one day we'll move past these issues, and I'll get around to changing it, for now though the name stays.
The problem is how wildly different a lot of the games are. Rise and World make up the probably most differing generation in a while and as such are barely even comparable.
One of them is an action adventure while the other is an arcade beat em up.
I think that unless the dev teams agree on an overall vision for the game, the community will stay divided between dev team lines.
@@xhbn2157 There are a decent number of games that have similar shifts.
Freedom Unite to Tri comes to mind, which has similar art-style/mechanical differences between each other, not to mention the shift from the main series being basically Playstation exclusive to being on the Wii. Even within the same generation, 4/4U and Gen/GU play very differently. It just depends on where you draw the line, but there have been disagreements on the direction of MH since Gen 1.
It's fine to prefer a particular title or style of MH, I personally take issue with people that discourage others from discovering more of the series, because they like one game more then the others. I'd rather they encourage people to try the game they like, as well as the rest of the series. Sure, not everyone has time for everything, but adding additional barriers to entry is not the solution.
I like both Rise and World for different reasons, World is great because it's so immersive and feels like a cinematic experience at times, it's much grander. But Rise has a really cool aesthetic, better cast of characters, and to be honest sometimes it's just cool to fight monsters, it gives that power fantasy element of being this really strong hunter
I think for me, the 'realism' of World actually made it worse. Mostly because, as nice as everything looked, it was also super messy and stuff. Greenish brown monsters would blend into the greenish brown trees and greenish brown ground and greenish brown vines. Obviously some areas were worse than others. Didn't have too much issue in the desert area for example.
Rise just feels 'cleaner' to me. Like, everything pops more, and it just makes the whole thing easier to actually look at and pick things out from the background.
@@TXFDA An advantage of it being the work of the portable team, they were used to designing for lower resolution less responsive screens, aesthetically and gameplay Rise is a joy to play most of the time though I do miss tracking like it was in the old days most of the areas are small enough now it's barely an issue in either World or Rise.
I like Rise more, because I am more on the side of Gameplay is the more important part of the games, but both are great games on their own
@@TXFDA YOu mean camouflage?
@@danygrt Define gameplay. Are you only speaking on combat? And don't they have different combat ideologies?
Great video, I now dread when the next game comes out after wilds and how everyone will perceive it as a change of form or fall off.
I was guilty of the same thing when Rise came out, I opened a twitch stream, looked at it for about 1 minute, saw the chat ripping it apart, and assumed MH had completely fallen off, closed the stream and never looked at anything MH for a number of years.
I'm all good now, in fact I'm a super capcom fanboy, I like basically every game they make and that started with Resident Evil on the game cube, even before RE4. For some reason I just hadn't given MH a try ever. I missed so many good games lmao.
I have yet to play a MH that I didn't absolutely love. It hurts seeing people being so negative, but this definitely explains it. Still, with MH6 theres no doubt in my mind that we're eating good
Some are just better than others. RIse is objectively (overall) inferior to World but that doesn't make it BAD. it was still great fun but long after I got bored of rise, I am still going back to World.
And I did love Hammer in Rise, how the wirebug let you become SUPER BONK the SKULLCRUSHER
You shouldn't be hurt just because other people have different preferences than you.
@@zeehero7280saying it's better is not an objective statement. It will always be subjective. By what metric are you measuring that it's objectively better? Is it the monster size and variety of the monsters? It can't be cause sunbreak has more monsters than world and more variety. Is it the graphics of world? Well obviously. It's designed for ps4 whereas rise is for switch. Would you say world is objectively better than Zelda tears of the kingdom because it's on switch? Is it the sales? World did sell more (18m vs 13 m) but then would you say GTA 4 released in 2008 is a better game than World cause gta 4 sold more?
You might like some aspects and mechanics more in one game than the other. But that's a subjective analysis. You can't objectively say (in this case) that one game is better than the other
@@zeehero7280 You say rise is objectively worse but thats just cap. Its your opinion not a fact. I think Rise overall did a lot of things better than world. The tenderize mechanic in world was terrible and rise made many fights like rathalos and kushala way better than world cuz all they did was sit in the air 24/7. Dont get me wrong I still like world be stop spoutin this whole "Its objectively better than rise🤓" bs
@@zeehero7280you LITERALLY have no idea what "objectively" means.
Great video, summarizes the whole debacle cleanly. I will say, while I am also a big classic fan and definitely want some elements from the classic games to return, I don't know how so many classic fans give Generations a pass. The combat is more different from GU to 4U, than World is to 4U. GU and Rise are much more similar to each other with the crazy abilities in terms of combat than any of the other games. Anyway, I have a feeling Wilds is going to make everyone happy. That Capcom is intensely aware of all the divisions and issues people have, and their wishlists.
Monster Hunter World was my first Monster Hunter game and I was hooked, played it for months on end - then Rise came out.......... and I loved it, and also played it for months on end haha.
And now I'm excited for the new one, no matter how it ends up, because I know it's just going to be a really good time. I'm super loving my late-discovery of this franchise.
I remember having Monster Hunter on the DS, got confused, didn't understand any of it, stopped playing, never picked it up again.
I've played some of the older ones but world was the first time I went into it regularly doing co-op, just mucking around with the events and doing dumb stuff with mates is what will keep me coming back to the series regardless of how unrealistic or realistic the devs want the game to be
The truth is MH was always going to head in a more streamlined direction for a wider appeal. World did a great job at introducing new players without burdening them too much with "sim elements" while still keeping the spirit of crafting, prepping, tracking & hunting alive.
Like mentioned in the video, the "purist" grounded footsie based gameplay with no frills in older mh titles are a product of their time, and what we're seeing with entries like World / Rise is just evolution. A natural course for any aging franchise.
Vanilla World still retained audience with oldheads with its focus on grounded checkers gameplay (pre iceborne) and living/breathing ecosystem.
World clearly tried to find a middle ground to bridge old vs new players. I think it did well in this regard, but there will always be disagreements because there is simply no pleasing everyone.
I love both World and Rise and the differences that set them apart. I think it's a good thing that we have MH games that are uniquely distinct from eachother and tries different things to stand out. An experimental portable title, or a more rooted and true to form mainline entry, there will always be a MH for everyone.
Now that it's been established that the mainline/portable distinction is capcom's way forward, It's about time we stfu and lay the "us vs them" thing to rest, and simply enjoy these games for what they are.
There is no such thing as a "natural course" for any human endeavor. There is no magical obvious or even non-obvious progression for things to follow. These are projects by people making choices. And those choices can and will change with the people involved and their particular attitudes.
If FromSoft suddenly became in charge of Monster Hunter, the fights might get more punishing. If the people who made Cabela's Big Game Hunter games got in charge, they might become slower and more focused on hunting realism. Acting like "oh of course they're getting streamlined" is nonsense. There's never any natural progression toward streamlining, it's a choice made by those making the game.
Well said!
Great that there's Monster Hunter fans like you, keep it up!
Honestly the only thing i want capcom to not repeat in MH6 is World's hud design and the quantity of cutscenes.
@@MidlifeCrisisJoe And why do you think the developers make the choice to streamline? is it because it makes sense to introduce and ease in a whole new generation of players to a 19 year old franchise, or because capcom just felt like it? Streamlining IS a natural course for aging franchises because as game design philosophy and technology advances, so do our expectations. This happens in literally every aging franchise. Resident evil, dark souls, final fantasy, the list could go on.
How well do you reckon something like mh2 dos would do if it released today, with its ps2 tank controls, very basic and positional combat? That might be what you want, but it wouldn't pull players from a marketing perspective.
Acting like streamlining is not a natural course for old ip's is simply willful ignorance, because they all do it.
The time and effort you went through to accurately describe the different stances between these divisions is incredible. As a veteran fan who started in Freedom Unite, I would love a “return to form” including everything you mentioned in the segment regarding Veteran Fans. However I fully realize that this is more likely to hurt the growth of the series in the future, so I’m not pushing for such a change to ever occur. Instead a fan game or related release by an indie studio could do what I feel I want done, not because Capcom can’t or won’t do it, but because the series is so large that if they went back to the Freedom Unite style of hunting then the new fans would likely leave in droves- killing the franchise.
Listening to your video made me very happy as it showed me that people do understand where the veteran fans are coming from and our desires for the series, including our thoughts on the QoL changes brought by World and Rise.
Seems like some of the older fans view the clunk in sort of the same vein as fighting games and inputs, in the vague sense that they're translating the real life mechanical dexterity of an action to its simulated complexity. Almost all series naturally erode into becoming action games of some kind, since it's a very basic, accessible and immediately rewarding form of gameplay. But in the same way MH designs help to identify the series apart from generic dragons, the closer the titles get to being yet another action game, the less value they'll have. There are many things I personally don't like, as someone who only dips into the series (like consumables of any kind), but I also recognize you cannot remove those things without removing the conceits of what makes the series, itself.
Hey Plague, always good to see you in comment sections.
Maybe at some point you will have a video idea for MH too, that would be great.
I'm a veteran MH player. When i got MHW in 2019, i was just starting my degree in biology, so i had the GREAT opportunity to play this game throughout my entire biology degree and look at it with biologist eyes while learning and i realized how important the ecology and realistic part of it is. The thought and care the devs put into the biological side of it is so that i'm even writing my Final Paper upon it. Might be publshed in Biológica at the end of this year or begginning of 2025, i'll see if i can translate it to English.
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On the gameplay side of it, i think World imrpoved a lot, i loved the scoutflies, the faster peaced action, i went back to the older game again and they felt clumsy, like i don't have much control over my own character. While i miss the feeling that it was a one-way journey that i had to prepare for, the time-saving of the camp and extra potions is so important as i don't have as much free time as i used to when i was younger and i belive most people could say the same. Over 600 hours of this game, 5 years and i still haven't finished it. Feels like World hit the perfect proportion of mechanics, if i prepare properly i can do anything but i don't need to endlessly grind and study patterns for it.
I started with Freedom Unite and I've played every release of a game since. New games are just new games; they come with new things to learn or new ways to hunt. I never saw that as a bad thing. It's fun and always fresh.
Also the more classic approach of Rise gave me some nostalgia feelings I appreciated very much.
I would classify myself as a slightly veteran (I joined during 4U and loved it and GU) but I enjoyed World for what it was. Rise isn't bad but it's just not why I play MH. Of the things you mentioned I agree I don't love being able to restock in hunts because I enjoyed preparing according to the hunt. I'm also a bit indifferent to paintballs. I wish there was a middle ground between scoutflies and paintballs. I like tracking even if in the end monster spawn in the same spots usually. But things like pickaxes being infinite or always on you doesn't bother me compared to restocking.
As someone who entered in World and is generally pretty recent to the franchise, the way I see it is that the best game is a middle ground. Stuff like at least limiting the stock of items you can bring at camp if not just being stuck with your inventory while quality of life stuff like pickaxes and scout flies should be here to stay or at least mostly the same. Stuff from Rise and GU like different move sets for each weapon should be a series mainstay IMO. Stuff like having a party of GS users all playing it differently sounds amazing and it only broadens customization which has always been a strong suit of the franchise. Lastly, the focus on ecology should stay because Rise felt kind of empty without it. Ultimate attack I don’t mind but I can live with or without.
Also Capcom better do a berserk layered armor crossover at some point. Pulling up on a monster in the berserker armor with the dragonslayer is something that just needs to happen.
Personally I never bothered with paintballs. In the old games you could figure out where the monsters went simply by the direction of their movement.
I think World... almost hits that middle ground. Key word is almost.
To quickly sum up how the scoutflies work: Each monster has a scoutfly level that rises when you hunt it or collect tracks for it more, and falls the more you focus on other monsters. Creating a constant ebb and flow of which monsters you'll either immediately see upon loading in or monsters that will be otherwise completely invisible. I like this on paper but in practice the flies are a bit hand-holdy, not exactly trusting a player to explore and gain situational awareness, which can diminish how much one learns. Its why I personally think a lot of people claim the Ancient Forest is a bad map- they never really needed to learn it, the scoutflies just politely dragged them around. That ebb and flow system is good because if you're grinding a monster repeatedly you can get to it faster, but if you're unfamiliar with a monster you still need to bother to track it down and re-learn its movement.
As for the camps, again, World almost reaches a decent halfway point. There are a metric ton of resources everywhere which allow for restocking on the fly, which is great, but you don't need them all after awhile because you can restock completely at camp, which is bad. Fast travel and multiple camps wouldn't feel so cheesy if they just had confidence in their map design and resource placement. Especially considering World's incredibly robust mini map which helps you find whatever it is you need.
@@internetdragon7624 I kinda get the dislike for Ancient Forest, out of all the World maps, it certainly feels like the hardest to navigate. The location of some locations compared to others isn't quite as clear as in the others.
@@Otakumanu Literally the basics on real hunting. Monsters ALWAYS had at most 2 preset spawn locations. You can also follow the direction the monster is leaving at with the lock-on camera. Paintballs were always just for convenience, NOT mandatory like many casuals claim.
i really enjoyed Rise AI Companion that they added with sun break, and hope the Wilds will continue with that.
Loading screens, running out of paintballs, non regenerating gathering points, pick axes that break, bugnets that break, crafting %success, not having access to full inventory during hunts, running out of wetstones. Added difficulty to the old games which was cool but I have to say I don't really miss some of the frustration
Risebreak is one of my favorite Monster Hunters
Why's it called risebreak? Why not SunRise? Is it just what people call it?
@RockyAhhDragon because Sunbreak came after Rise, therefor Rise+(Sun)break, same reason to why people call World/Iceborne Worldborne.
@lubbo5261 oh oki doki
The discourse existing between fans of each titles is nothing new but I think World/Rise thing only happened because of very specific circumstances. World invited a lot of new people who will see it as the default standard for the series. And then they released Rise immediately afterwards, which IMO is an experimental title. By experimental I mean when the game features bombastic mechanics that doesn't even feel like it belongs in MH. Stuff that feels way more out-there than something like going from paintballs to scoutflies, if that makes any sense. When Rise was released I've seen a lot of World fans disliking it because it was "too anime" in both gameplay and design wise. Only reason I'm bringing this up is because I have seen this level of discourse happening before with 4/4U and Generations. Except back then the community was not big as it is now for it to be noticed by outsiders.
i agree this is pretty much 4u vs GU but unlike on the previous "discourse" which i liked both of em, i can see myself going back for both games.
This time i am on "World" side. it's getting closer to god eater/anime ish thing and event quests rewards vs DLC quality gaps nailed the coffin for me.
@channelofstuff6662 anime pace of combat not as in the game itself.
@channelofstuff6662 world feels like actually fine for me. Idk there is something about rise that makes me think it was faster.
Imo, Rise feels more like the “good ol’ MH” than World. MH was already starting to move towards more flashy, fantastical hunt gameplay since 4. If anything is “experimental”, its Generations.
4u was my first and is my favorite of the series, needing to plan and be fully prepared before every hunt was integral to the feeling of the game, as well as gathering while also going after the other main objectives, learning what resources spawn where, learning the habits and patterns of the monsters, and Repetition.
I always say that the player character, while important, is not the main character of the game, it’s the monsters, they have the most character, especially the antagonist monsters for each game, Gore Magala being the best in that respect (IMO).
I started with Freedom, then Freedom Unite (There's a reason why it was called MHFU, everything ganged up on you holy shit).
I always planned ahead so carefully in those games. I recall going on a G-ranked Green Plesioth hunt with 2 of my friends, and the damned thing was so tanky and buggy both me (HBG) and another friend (LBG) ran out of every single bullet except for Normal 1. Not wanting to do minimal damage all the way, we disengaged and ran all over the map harvesting resources to craft, and harvesting meat and herbs/blue mushrooms for our Longsword friend who pretty much ran out of healing and stamina items.
We killed the green terror with 49 seconds left on the quest timer.
It was a fucked up quest, but it was one of our best memories together. It was such an iconic hunting experience, almost a journey in itself.
I initially disliked World, because the combat was so fast paced (yeah I know, wait til I saw Rise) and because of the clutch claw mechanic. I thought it really trivialized the entire fight when you could just claw the monster over and over for decent damage without fear of retaliation.
Eventually I warmed up to the game and saw its merits. I especially loved it for its ecology, and would spend hours on gathering quests just following the monsters around and observing their daily life.
I couldn't really get into Rise because I'd grown to fall in love with World. It felt like an empty arena fight. Enter, get on your doggo, sprint to the boss, kill it in a pretty much undisturbed fight. You have trouble? Just hijack another monster and do massive damage to the target. Hell you didn't even need to put in any effort (like luring Deviljho to help put the hurt on your target in World).
I agree fully that the monsters are the heart of the series, not the player. World and the older titles seemed to show that the player must maintain the balance with nature and approach it with caution and care. Rise seemed like a Marvel movie experience where you're Iron Man gunlancing through the air, and it was all about the flash and power fantasy of the player rather than the immersion of a well fleshed-out world.
using Gore is best of all into IMO..... Yes indeed, you are a 4U man.
Ive been playing since Mh3u and I honestly love how each game feels totally different in their own way. The old style definitely blends in with itself a little more but even then each game added something new and relevant. Its so nice to know that monster hunter isnt just getting lazy, theyre at least trying things to see what feels good and what doesnt. That makes the replay value of each game better
Great writeup Rata. A bit of a shame to hear how vocal the World/Rise 'discourse' is but with Wilds at least it will set the standard for Gen 5ers on how the series has always operated. It's really important that the MH team continue to have the distinction between "Mainline" and "Portable." It allows them to take risks with game mechanics in the "portable" series while having another, safer title in the "mainline" series.
You pretty much covered most of my gripes with Gen 5 in the 'old vets vs new fans' section so instead I'll mention some ideas towards some of those gripes.
Camp Restock: While I didn't outright hate it (more indifferent), I feel like having access to your entire item box is a bit much. MH is a game that can totally thrive off of inconveniencing the player if they lean more into the hunting simulation side (which I'd like them to do). As a 'old hunter (Freedom Unite, 4U)', I've always held the preparation aspect in high regard. It is an integral part of being a 'hunter'. Now, would I wish anyone the pain of abandoning a quest because they forgot traps in a capture quest? Absolutely not, but I think some restriction of inventory is in order. As for my proposal, if Wilds has certain designated campsites, I would say having a "second inventory" would be appropriate for hunting purposes. The second inventory would consist of items you picked from your item box and would be no bigger than your normal inventory with the same inventory restrictions. Those provisions would be sent out with you on a hunt. The second inventory could also allot space for 1 armor set if you so choose (dependent on if we get dual weaps or armor skill implementation).
Difficulty Spread: Yes please. This won't really be as impactful for me I feel but it's implementation is important. There should be *at least* some spikes in difficulty that series vets can vaguely perceive where newer players will get stuck. Difficulty should not only be backloaded, it should be sprinkled around during progression. The problem lies in the dynamic power struggle between hunter and monster. World had a decent spread for everyone as the main systems had changed alot. Rise made hunters literal gods and walking calamities with how much they could adapt to monsters. Combat fluidity changed alot for hunters and very little for monsters. We don't have to go all the way back to mechanical combat, World combat I feel was perfectly fine. Just make monsters threatening again.
"Drunk Bird" and the "High (G) Rank Penalty": Something that wasn't mentioned but I have special feelings for. For the uninitiated, 'drunk bird' was the unique situation in World where the wind drake would freak out and drop you off in a location that wasn't the base camp. To me, it was visual representation that a mishap had occurred in the process of a quest (ex. you encountered a flying wyvern en route to camp or something) and you had to make a unaccounted detour. This is an old gen mechanic (usually tied to "dangerous" monsters or unstable environments), but because there were no repercussion for initiating this mechanic at the start of a quest it was seen more as an annoyance than an important hunting aspect (hence the nickname). Which leads me to the repercussion, the HR(GR) Penalty. In the old gen, if you were dropped off anywhere but camp, you were basically stuck with only the items you had packed for a duration of the hunt (as it's implied that your extra provisions had to make a detour to avoid danger). This put hunters first experiencing this in a unique situation, as with less readily available supplies they would have to be more mindful of their actions, or waste hunt time to acquire said provisions (only applied to the initial starting provisions). I was deeply sad when I found out while playing with a friend that the penalty was removed in World (thinking on it, it made sense for places like the ancient forest, but it wasn't implemented anywhere). There's a certain feeling that's invoked when your left stranded in the middle of the desert, run back to camp after getting lost, and find out that the item box is completely empty and you don't understand why (yet). I do hope they reimplement these in some way for Wilds if this really is a 'new frontier' setting. Putting the hunter in situations where they have to make conscious decisions on risk management (how will I confront this 'new' monster? can I do it with just my current gear/items? when do I disengage completely and head for camp? etc.) will elevate the skill level of the hunter (hopefully).
Negative Armor Skills: Wasn't going to add this but my response is long already so whatever. Gimme back my armor detriments. Surely the 'muh deeps' group will be mad a me. Gen 5 was a generation of power. Hunters got none of the detriments that would normally be associated with a certain monster's gear. The most they got were the elemental weaknesses of said armor. Leaving out the detriments of an armor piece feels like removing part of the monster's character. We don't have to go back to the old skill system (tho I'm not opposed to it), we could just tack it on to the current system (lol), but I would like it if negative skills were given another chance.
Also bring back Hot/Cold drinks. Immersion is important.
I agree with the armor skill detriments but the new armor system is just too much of an upgrade. I hated the old skill point threshold as it made a lot of dead points that didn’t do anything
I much prefer every armor having some impact with the skill levels now, and wouldn’t mind them adding negative skills where the armor piece takes the skill away and has negative levels along the skill line.
Thanks for writing my thoughts on Armor Detriments concisely. I remember getting into 4u as a dumb teen and not getting it, but as soon as I learned it, getting a skill to activate with mixed sets/decorations/talismans was really satisfying and I felt rewarded for learning the systems. I know we can never go back to those days anymore, but I'm hoping that we can at least take a step back that way.
@@shnorkeythefourth4572 that's why I mentioned that they could just include negative skills in the current skill system. With the old system is was a balancing act to dodge thresholds you didn't want, which lead to dead points like you mentioned. With Gen 5's system, it would be immediate detriment, which might sound bad right now but eventually hunters will figure out how to negate the detriments with decorations/talismans just like how we did back in the day.
With the reduction of hardware limitations we need some amount of system limitations to maintain an overall balance. If not, the more grounded MH games run the risk of a vastly skewed power dynamic (aka Rise). Negative skills could keep us in that balance (at least til endgame).
@@Aeosin we’re completely in agreement. My comment was specifically to you saying you wouldn’t mind bringing the old skill system back because of my issue with dead skills. The new system being an immediate impact slider just means they need to add negative values to the slider
I love all monster games equally and I feel like ever game has its own different feel I crave every once and a while
I started back in ye old times of Freedom Unite, and it has been a pleasure watching the series iterate over time. I consider Tri Ulti and World to be my favorite entries, and really miss fighting monsters like the Gigginox and Lagiacrus.
I haven't played iceborne as of yet due to lack of time, but plan on dedicating to another world playthrough before wilds comes out. There are definitely great things across the series, but in my own opinion, I really do agree with several things being quality of life features, such as the picks/nets and scout flies. I wasn't really a fan of Rise due to it's fast and loose style, but I know some definitely liked it and that's ok! I am the freak that loved Tri's water combat :>
I actually thought Water Combat was such a cool addition. If nothing else, I miss swimming and think it should be brought back in some way that isn't niche and crammed into one area or one or two monsters.
5:25 One aspect that shows this where an ecosystem makes sense and is connected is the Great Girros in World. Its main thing is paralysis, and it just so happens that Odogaron to be super weak to paralysis meaning it makes sense that even though Odogaron is far more powerful, why GG is able to survive in the Rotten Vale. Also the fact it lives just deep enough in the Vale where Radobaan doesn’t go.
This is probably going to make me seem like the odd man out, but I actually came into the MH fandom community through lore first and then gameplay. While Rise is my first foray into the actual game aspect, the speculative evolution angle that the mainline titles strive for is what really drove me to take a more vested interest in the world of Monster Hunter. That, and delving into aspects of both world building and creature design have always been a passion of mine as an rpg player.
I do appreciate some of the more experimental and quality of life aspects that we've been given in more recent releases, but I still have respect for what came before. Especially as someone who tries not to use the tent anymore than what's necessary. Still currently wrapping up my journey in Rise/Sunbreak, but I've also got a portable copy of Generations Ultimate to play through in my backlog. Ideally, I'd say the best compromise is to try to balance both new and old features based on what compliments and accentuates the experience the devs are going for, but that's just my opinion as a novice to the series.
Given the devs regularly change up the mechanics and gameplay of nearly every entry, it makes quite enjoyable revisiting older entries;
Since they offer their own relatively unique experiences.
I like both mainline and portable games in older MH titles and would prefer a more pre 5th gen angle, but I greatly prefer Rise over World despite it being an even bigger departure. I think it's mostly because I think that weapons and gameplay were completely ruined but Rise's arcade style fits the new direction more.
In 5th gen most of the weapons were reduced to attempting to spam the biggest hit you have as that was made more rewarding. CB for example no longer losing shield charge on UAED means the buildup and maintenance phase of the weapon was heavily reduced. Before you'd want to SAED to keep shield since that's how you get guard points, now you can just spam away with 0 consequence, meaning that move has diminished usage.
And that's the main thing the newer games are missing: consequence. Gearsets don't have negative skills and it's far too easy to stack 12 damage skills in a single build so utility skills have lost massive amounts of favour, leading to multiplayer with randoms being more frustrating than ever. They read a guide that says earplugs is useless and then get carted every time the monster roars. Healing and sharpening don't have any downsides so they are counter to the almost turn-based nature of methodical action games. Additionally, since Wilds has a rideable companion it's possible that you can do those actions on its back just like in Rise, which makes it even less punishing and antithetical to a more realistic game. Hopefully that is addressed. More ways to ignore damage like the mantles, super armour and the various counters reduce the punishment for mistiming and disincentivise learning monster movesets.
I don't want these games to be alienating and brutal, but the challenge and feeling of weakness is what highlights the monsters and makes them as iconic as they are. The struggle to overcome something that is so much more powerful than you is what it means to hunt monsters. If the emphasis remains on the hunter, then what differs this series from DmC other than aesthetic?
How could you possibly prefer Rise over World after what you just described? World has it's issues, but the possibility to fix it is much more realistic than it is in a game like Rise.
Liking Rise more might as well just be giving up on what you like about the series and just embracing DmC Hunter.
@@flavionmsi think you may have misinterpreted what they said, i had to read their comment twice before i understood myself.
From what i can gather, it's that both games greatly changed the weapons, but a rise style arcady game works better with those changes.
@@azure4622 I figured that's what they meant, but I disagree. World did veered in that direction, but it wasn't beyond the point of no return. It would only require some tweaks to make weapons less reliant on spamming their big moves, and in truth, for average players, they can't really rely on that because they're just not that good. That's a reasonable compromise.
Rise takes that up to eleven. It's now much easier to spam your strongest move because either it's a silkbind or there is a silkbind that makes it spammable. And it's so core to the game it would take a lot of reworking to move away from that.
Which leads to my main point. World's style isn't nearly so far out there it's better to go full arcade. It's very much salvageable, so preferring Rise is basically giving up on that.
I've always been a gameplay over story kind of girl
It might be because of my ADHD
I loved GU and Rise/Sunbreak
My biggest pet peeve with world/iceborne just had to do with how power crept the weapon and armor stats were
I like the near evergreen nature of the equipment grind
So Fatalis serving as a pretty abrupt endpoint prior to unlocking the last monster at MR100 was very frustrating for me
Made worse by the event quest schedule
I like Sunbreak better even tho I dislike the MR grind :P
I love GU and still play it but I didn't like Rise enough to get Sunbreak. I think it was just too streamlined for me. It made all the hunts feel the same to me.
@@pedrito890 That's fair
I hope we can drop the counter mechanics a bit. Its a bit wild how mandatory they are for half the weapons in rise.
Reallity is that for difficult monsters, that's an obligation for all weapons (maybe not in multi). I hope Rise 2 don't go that way
World was my first and then I went back, I've now played Freedom, Portable 3rd, 3U, 4U, Gen, GenU, and Rise. I'm firmly in the Pre World/World camp
👍👍
I love World, I love Rise, I love Monster Hunter. I started with FU so I've been around for most of the series. I welcome any and all changes and experiments they do. Some I love, others I hate, but no matter what, the gameplay, monster designs, armor designs and weapon feel always deliver.
True. We should celebrate every MH game with love. Each game is unique and amazing.
I've always loved the portable Monster Hunter games, ngl.
Hell, I even started with Stories 1 despite being a spin-off.
The aspect of diferent teams developing different games overlaping with one another is pretty interesting to learn.
While I have never looked down on OG or Rise players, I didnt want wilds to be Rise part 2. This video is an excellent summary on the situation.
It's gonna be World done better, thanks God(s)
I'm more of a "veteran" player described in this video despite starting in World. I went back and played 3U, 4U, FU, and GU, and very quickly this series has became my favorite game franchkse. I still love world, but I agree with many of the opinions listed in the "Old vs New Fans" section, I still argue for the return of the healing flex, and I would like to see a "return to form" but also with the living, breathing ecosystems of World. I love this franchise and can't wait to see what Wilds has in store.
You have my respect. And yes, we definitely need the flex back and the removal of infinite restocks.
@@Aesieda what's so wrong with heal restocking though? In the older games you could do a bunch of things to "over-prepare", like packing honey/herbs in your item pouch, collecting mats in the individual areas, sleeping in bed, or getting provisions after a certain amount of time. The only time interacting with your environment and preparations were particularly important were in the first few games, especially MH1. Heal restocking is literally just saving time, it has no bearing on skill other than players maybe caring a little less about getting hit, but then again if you're a good player that shouldnt be happening much anyways?
Also I don't think flexing would fit the new movement system, I could agree on the heal taking longer to raise your health (in rise the first third of the heal is instant which I agree is a lil silly) but monsters, just like the player, are way faster than old world, where things moved much slower and robotically. So a stationary heal in the older games was properly balanced and made sense with that kind of movement system.
I think there should be both the slow walk and the flex at the end, you can cancel it in the middle but get only like 50% of the potion effect.
@@GS_CCC maybe, but I don't think that adds any intrigue to the fight, you would be waiting longer for an opening just sitting around doing nothing, or waiting for the monster to be aggro-ed by one of your palicos. In rise and world, unless you have speed eating, you will be hit if you incorrectly time your heal just like the older games, there's just more leniency for when you can heal so you don't have to wait as long for a break in the monster's AI. I definitely think it should take longer to heal but I think flexing is unnecessary in the faster movement, in old world you could practically heal whenever you wanted as soon as a monster used an attack that wasn't directed at you, whether because it missed a charge or simply went after someone else. Maybe keeping the normal walk/sprint drinking but with a quick stationary flex at the end could work, it would allow you to reposition if needed but still have some stationary commitment at the end, but it would definitely be tricky to balance with how fast the monsters are.
@@alyria9430 you won't get hit in rise, you can just evade out of it and get a bit less of the effect.
I'm playing 3U now and really like that I can't just heal unpunished some times if I don't position myself properly,
You can a lot of times evade a hit and use the moster attack animation to heal safely.
Fun Fact... most of the people arguing between World and Rise doesn't even understand that Monster Hunter isn't anymore what it was in the old titles. For some it feels the "realism" and "better graphics" are the thing they like, but Monster Hunters was never about it. Both World and Rise left a lot of stuff from the original games in order to move forward and become something else which they did quite well BTW. I still feel that World did a better job at handling the battles and retaining something more of the original games where you didn't use some ability and the fight was oriented around your own skill as a player. Rise gave us a lot more of freedom to play with each weapon which I loved honestly, it is the best iteration for many weapons because you can play it however you like it (much like XX) buuuuttttttttt it also resolved around the use of active abilities and SPECIALLY Fall Recovery Wirebug, which completely negates the skill needed as a player to capitalize the punishing moments and also ignoring the punish on you if you screwed it. On the other hand World made me almost left it when the Clutch Claw become as well something mandatory to kill the monsters, without it the difference was huge, felt like playing with cheats or without them and I didn't like that mechanic.
I love both games and both feel different, but to me the concept art in Rise is the one I like the most, the freedom of choice in Rise is the one I also love more, the preparation for the hunt in Rise for spiritbirds and helpers is something that also reminds me of the survivalist aspect of older games and is so good they kept it (regardless of scrubs saying it was annoying), so to me it is more fun to go and play it instead of World, however World is a harder challenge without the need to handicap myself in Rise by not using some stuff.
I wish the new game could be more like Rise but with the Switch Skills and abilities as something more organic in the set and without the need of wirebugs or abusing counter stances with full invincibility/armor but specially without the option to instantly recover from a hit and remove the whole game of punishment and monster patterns dance the game has always been about. So Rise without ignoring core mechanics by abusing counter/armor/invincibility/fall recovery
nice take
Fair enough, tho wirefall does at least require some braincells. Almost every monster has a dark souls ahh roll catch, and will punish you for an early/late recovery, so there's that at least. World deffo sounds cool, and I would try it if I wasn't saving up for wilds(so excited)
Personally I love both World and Rise, but for different reasons. I like how things feel like they have more weight in World, the graphics and sound quality is better, the production value is obviously better. I love Rise for the fast paced combat, huge variety in switch skills you can use, and generally find the combat to be much more interesting and fun than World. As much as I love World I actually am leaning towards liking Rise more because the combat is so amazing, though there are some aspects of both games that i’m not too fond of. They’re both great games and i’m hoping they can take some of the best aspects of Rise and fit it into a more grounded context
This is the comment I was looking. I agree, world clearly the better game but rise is more fun in my opinion.
I agree on this.
@mikeboi64-49 Well how do you feel about both games in comparison to the older games because I keep hearing people say monster hunter 4, 3 or Freedom unite are the best games in the series. Plus I heard some people want to go back to how things were pre mh world like having to put paint on monster to track them, having no tent so your have limited healing items and things like that.
@@mikeweaver813 I’ve only played 3 ultimate and above so I can’t speak on older titles. I also wouldn’t consider myself a veteran cause there other who have way more knowledge and experience than me. However I noticed that in discussions about realism it always comes down to difficulty/tedious. I don’t believe having 1 unlimited whetstone makes the game any easier or harder than having 20. Same with paintballs, I don’t believe they’re really necessary anymore if realism is the goal.
There’s probably a nice balance between simplifying hunt preparation and the make sure you’re prepared for anything crowd but in my opinion it doesn’t matter anymore.
P.s I also prefer rise over world cause it more fun to me although world is better.
@@mikeboi64-49 I was wondering if you prefer Rise over 3, 4 and generations.
As a brand new fan of Monster Hunter, this helps explain a lot.
I really like World and I don’t like Rise as much.
I quite like that they are going to be going back and forth with the game styles though. It will be interesting to see what they continue to make.