NAD and NAD precursors: help or hype? | Peter Attia, M.D. & Matt Kaeberlein, Ph.D.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- This clip is from The Drive podcast: 175 - Matt Kaeberlein, Ph.D.: The biology of aging, rapamycin, and other interventions that target the aging process. Originally released on September 13, 2021, you can watch the full interview here: • 175 - The biology of a...
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The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 30 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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Outstanding discussion. Thanks Dr Kaeberlein & Dr Attia.
MASSIVE boost to my well-being with NMN. I'm 35, however I suppose this is on a case-by-case basis - in my case I can only presume I lived my life so far with a bad NAD metabolism which really s*cked. Others don't feel quite the same effect but possibly still benefit, arguably more so with age. Over the past several years my energy levels had been going down, no matter how hard I tried I was unable to get good with diet, exercise and fasting. Now my issue is that I lost some of the motivation in these areas.
One of the effects is I no longer get a bad body odor soon after showering and I'm perfectly fine even after a couple of days. Also, I can skip a few days supplementing NMN and the effect doesn't go away. Remember that NMN is a direct precursor to NAD so it's a lot less dependent on possible failures in metabolism.
@@Dan-uf2vh Hello Dan, also taking NMN for three weeks, i'm 44. Funny how one doctor said he sees very little downside and the other doesn't contradict him. So if you think there's little downside and huge potential upside you could just try it🤔🤭? I definitely notice benefits. Increased strength, better recovery after lifting, more energy, increased alertness and wakefulness (i normally need an hour in the morning), better cardiovascular fitness, O migraine attacks (although 3 weeks is too little to be sure), seems less hair lossc I do think problems with product can be common: 1) purity, because it's fairly expensive it's highly likely some vendors dilute their product or even put something else in worst case 2) storage is a problem, it doesn't like heat but humidity is a problem too, pay attention even to small stuff like a wet spoon or condensation. As far as motivation it's the opposite for me, i am so grateful especially after experiencing long covid effects for almost a year i know what it is to have really low energy and loss of quality of life, this 'discovery' seems feels like a huge gift.🥰
@@Tony-cj6jyand how do you feel now?
@@entertainmentdirecttoyou I feel good especially in the mornings i used to have a difficult time waking up and being alert, that is 100% eliminated. I had 1 migraine attack but it used to be about once a month so much improved. I am still overweight so i am starting to focus more on that, it didn't help me there. I think i have better cardiovascular health despite doing not enough sports and being overweight but it's difficult to quantify.
@@Tony-cj6jy Glad it is working for you. I had outstanding results the 2nd month I was on it. Now it has been a complete train wreck. I am stopping supplementation all together starting today. If you have weight to lose, this would be an optimal time since you are successfully supplementing NMN. That is where it really shined for me. I didn't feel extra energy per se, but when hiking or jogging which I do almost every day, I definitely felt better endurance and stamina to go farther and push harder, that is where I felt the energy from NMN. Best of luck with it.
Good interview, especially the question about the temperature of the supplements. Subscribed.
NR has done wonders for some of my friends and me.
Great information 🔥
Great conversation, interesting
As an Organic Chemist with a PhD, I am suspicious about the thermal stability of NR and NMN, given the crucial pyridinium (nitrogen atom) bond to the riboside is most likely highly subject to cleaving (hydrolysing) under elevated temperatures. So I wouldn't be surprised if these NAD+ precursors hydrolysed at temperatures around 40/50°C but I would think they should be stable enough at room temperature (25°C). Shipping containers can get quite hot, especially in Australia. Just my thoughts.
In summer, Thailand can get as hot as 46 degrees Celsius. Most supplements had better be kept in fridge.
i think some NMN seller like Prohealth has done tests on their stock purity after six month storage.
NMN has been tested over time (1-year) at room temperature (
I seem to remember Sinclair mentioning he kept his NMN in the refrigerator for that very reason
Yeah it is. Nmn is heat sensitive.
MASSIVE boost to my well-being with NMN. I'm 35, however I suppose this is on a case-by-case basis - in my case I can only presume I lived my life so far with a bad NAD metabolism which really s*cked. Others don't feel quite the same effect but possibly still benefit, arguably more so with age. Over the past several years my energy levels had been going down, no matter how hard I tried I was unable to get good with diet, exercise and fasting. Now my issue is that I lost some of the motivation in these areas.
One of the effects is I no longer get a bad body odor soon after showering and I'm perfectly fine even after a couple of days. Also, I can skip a few days supplementing NMN and the effect doesn't go away. Remember that NMN is a direct precursor to NAD so it's a lot less dependent on possible failures in metabolism.
Any impact on libido?
@@harveypierce6145 haven't noticed any ^^
I just ordered NAD supplements off Amazon. I really hope they help. 🤞
@@HH-gv8mx Then I hope you found out in advance is that specific brand is legit. I hear Amazon did remove some of its fake NMN.
sounds like you need to get on TRT treatment
I take 500mg NMN & 50mg Pterostilbene everyday. I don’t get any sciatic pain or wrist pain anymore. It starts again 3 days later if I come off them.
I just ordered NAD supplements off Amazon. I really hope they help. 🤞
just eat blueberries, dont waste money on Pterso
Gotta love that placebo effect. Buy some more pills I’m sure you’ll feel EVEN better
🎉🎉🎉thanks
I’m guessing people ask about NR and MNM because they can get their hands on it. None of us can try rapamycin to try on our locked shoulders or anything else.
My thoughts exactly. Show me where I can get a semi affordable rapalog and I'll get some for me and my dog.
MnM - my favorite typo of the month, lol. (eats a bag of M&Ms, for longevity). :-)
MNMs are awesome. Their hands are clean because the chocolate is inside the MNMs.
Underground labs
Ita very clear that NMN and NR are safe. On my side, the positive impact of NMN is clear.
It's not as safe with Rapamycine... that's why we cannot get it. Anyway if research shows how to use it safely, don't worry, questions will rain 😁
Love it 🔥
A video on nmn, nr and niacin would be good.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on doing gene therapy to upregulate Klotho and hTERT using an AAV vector. Is it worth the high cost? To me if it's effective it's worth the cost.
I would like to know what symptoms or what test would indicate that Nicotinamide Riboside Is really working? For how long does a person need to take NR to experiment the effects of the NR. Does age constitute a factor for the product to be effective? The NR I am taking is composed of Coenzyme Q10 Ubiquinone (microorganism) 400 mg. and NR 300 mg.
N=1: took NMN then tested after noticing an improvement in aerobic exercise, my NAD+ levels were substantially above expected level for my age, falling above the 95% confidence bar. I’m sure my observation will be trashed by the good doctor, but seems to work for me.
I just ordered NAD supplements off Amazon. I really hope they help. 🤞
Aerobic improvement is the only area I see improvement. I do half marathons and 10ks.
@@ManuelAMartinez why not just take NAD?
Isn't there a feedback system that lowers NAD levels when they go over a certain level?
WHAT IS THE PRECURSOR TO NAD . NAME PLEASE. THANKS IN ADVANCE.
I think the reason for more questions about NAD than rapalogs is because rapamycin isn’t easily available, so it can’t be part of most people’s supplement stacks.
u are discussing life extension but David Sinclair mainly claims that nmn helps to extend healthy span, but not total life span. U should just differenciate a bit more......
Any side effects of NAD IV? I had an IV of 50mg two months ago and within 4-5 hours started feeling strange. Out of it. Mind agitation. Inability to focus/be present. As of now, two months later, I have full on depression and anxiety related symptoms. Has anyone else experienced any side effects? Thanks.
So NMN and NR are attractive cause no downside but the upside is super shaky, and RAPAMYCIN has a bunch of side effects but the upside is very consistent?
It seems :D Consequently they are trying to figure out a way to eliminate the side effects of Rapamcyin while keeping the upsides. And as far as I know the german Max Planck Institute for Biology of Aging made some progress. Don't remember the details, but I think they basically found out, that you can give Rapamycin in higher dosages but very rarely and in return keep the upsides but lower the downsides.
if you are older people you can feel the different after taking NMN , no need to do test .
Boy is that true says this 76 year old boy ! Tony the Tiger ; Feels Great.
Interesting: Matt's passing comment that fermentation oxidizes NADH to NAD+
Anaerobic exercise like HIIT causes strong fermentation.
Glyphosate is the true cause of low NAD because it works by inhibiting plants and bacteria from making tryptophan. People eating RoundUp Ready GMO grains or meats and dairy fed these GMO grains will have deficiency of tryptophan, which is the original and natural NAD precursor. Organic diet including turkey + HIIT = high NAD+
Glyphosate is not just affecting the nutrition content of Roundup Ready crops as it would if only sprayed once on young crops to reduce weeds as originally intended. It is now common practice to spray it on crops a second time in much higher concentration to actually kill and dry up the crops to enable early harvest, which allows two crops per year instead of only one, but the concentrated glyphosate residue remains on the grains which causes myriad of diseases in people and animals who eat it, which is everyone not on a strictly organic diet. Glyphosate is in the rainwater now so even organic crops are exposed to it.
It's used on cover crops, not on crops before harvest. You would stop grain from filling if you sprayed it on something you want to harvest.
@@toomanymarys7355 I see. Good to know.Thanks
I've come across data that showed that NMN was temperature stable at room temperature. As for efficacy, I suspect that has to do more with delivery. Sublingual and liposomal would be better forms for research in avoiding degradation and ensuring entry into cells. Liposomal would be the best because it's proven to get other molecules past the cell membrane. Both have low bioavailability in oral form, and it's worse for NR. It's rather pointless testing for efficacy if researchers aren't using a bioavailable form, as that wouldn't really be testing anything.
Would you trust donotage or renue by science ? I'm in Canada wanted to try NMN and TMG.
I take NAD, NRF1 and NRF2 via Protandim, is this similar to what we're talking about here?
Because I've literally been aging backwards in every way since starting on Protandim 3 years ago!
"I've literally been aging backwards in every way"
woah! lol
Can you please elaborate?
@@Brahmdagh sure! My a1c is normal amongst complete cbc. My Dermatologist told me at my yearly exam last week that my skin is "very young" Her words. )I'm 42 and I have noticed it's become so much more supple and soft and fine lines are disappearing...although I've started keto 4 months ago so I cannot attribute this all to the Protandim trilogy..per say, however it was very dry skin and more textured just a year ago as far back as I remember. My joints don't hurt whatsoever anymore, my energy is that of when I was a teen, went to the eye doctor because my reading glasses seemed too Strong for me now and my vision has improved! Whereas it's usually the same or deteriorated a bit. I thought I was going crazy when I noticed I haven't had to color my hair the past year and it dawned on me, I don't have any greys growing in, like any! I didn't have many to begin with but never heard of hair growing in brown where the ends are grey from original growth (you see why I say I'm aging backwards?) My menstrual cycle is like clockwork and I don't have the pain anymore ( sorry if tmi but that's a big deal!) My mind is sharper as I was starting to be forgetful, overall a feeling of being 20 again. Mind you I've been on these supplements going on 3 years. But I cannot help but say it's because of the NAD, NRF1 inhibitor, and NRF2 inhibitor, which is why I was really hoping the doctor would see this and perhaps shed some light on it (Perhaps a pipe dream as I know my comment is lost in a sea of comments and he's a busy guy and probably doesn't even read his comments and answer them himself but a girl can dream, right?) 😉
@@SincerelyKristen
wtf!
Sounds like you've found "The Fountain" xD (Did you actually see measurable improvements in eye doc visits? Cause lost vision never comes back AFAIK)
Perhaps it's something else you've been doing? (how many supplements are you taking)
@@Brahmdagh I know!!! Forgot to mention, no. I have not done ANYTHING differently in 3 years except the past 4 months of incorporating a ketogenic lifestyle but honestly these changes started I would say about 3 months I noticed upon starting Protandim and have just been improving and improving! (With Keto, I've noticed benefits as well, but separate from the Protandim...ie: waist has gotten smaller, I don't crave sugar and carbs anymore)
@@SincerelyKristen Exercise?
You guys don't consider that the sale of those products would fail if there was no benefit as measured by the users.
Yes because no one's ever made money from selling placebo. Right?
Like thalidomide or vioox?
Everyone needs to stop and listen to the rap song Rapamycin by The Doppelgangaz… I appreciate other views on the longevity hype especially vis replicable effects of the different longevity interventions
I would gladly pay 1000 bucks a month for some rapa, but can't even do that. I believe I would need a scrip and then a trusted source. Hard to do, very hard.
Do you live in the United States? If you do it’s not that difficult to get a script. Let me know if you need some help.
@@ChuckFrasher How's that?
@@ChuckFrasher Would love to know how.
visit Dr. Alan Green in NYC or order from India
All day chemist. Been using them for years for Retin-A
Still worried about cancer-promoting effects and negative impact on VO2 max
I am as well, which is why I am cautious about recommending to my patients. I want to, but worried about side effects. Definitely recommend supporting mitochondria function, intermittent fasting, quality sleep, light exposure/circadian rhythm, and quality healthy fats!
@@midlifewellnessnp sometimes new developments have unintended consequences, so I am cautious but hopeful
what's up with the inter venous nad? it's very costly, but does it do what it's supposed to?
IV costs more, is less convenient, can be painful, and is unnecessary compared to oral supplementation
They keep saying it NMN is basically no risk. But there was a 2019 study that demonstrated that increasing NAD+ increased tumor growth in rats. It didn’t cause tumors - but if they were there the increase in NAD+ accelerated growth.
Lots of men have slow growing prostate cancer that doesn’t become clinically relevant. It will be interesting to see if this anti-aging supplementation kick feeds those cancer cells…
Yes! In addition changing your methylation can activate cancer, NMN , changes your methylation and then the user is left to figure out how much B vitamins or tmg to offset it ir compensate for it. Sounds risky.
People believe in David Sinclair because he looks 10-15 years younger than his biological age and all others who oppose him looking much older! If seeing is believing then one must think Sinclair is on to something.
He looks as young as Biden..
@@yvonnelisamartha what are you on about
He uses botox, dude. He is not trustworthy. Who knows what other cosmetic procedures he has had done.
@@toomanymarys7355 That was my thought. Also he is the one trying to make it a fact that you are younger if you look younger ("studies found out..."). Which is ofc bs since you can make yourself look younger without changing anything significant on the inside - like coloring your hair, shaving your beard and using some skin treatments like botox. And Sinclair really looks like a botox face to me.
Who's a good boy? 10:22
What about nad+ as injections or IV?
was there ever an answer here?
@@2nkdav don't think so
I just got in NAD+ patches. Interestingly it shipped with a cold pack, and instructed to refrigerate.
I also got nootropicsdepot optiNAD, and it arrived hot in the mailbox. A few days into optinad and don't feel anything like I remember the first time I tried it about a year ago
I am in my late 30's. I will wait for the first person reaching 110+ years saying, "my longevity secret I'm taking NMN daily", then I will start taking it. By now it is too expensive and so many uncertainties around it so I will pass. I guess if I was 65+ with pains and aches having low energy I would have taken it though.
🤔🤔🤔 Is it expensive for you $1 USD/day ? And get better performace in various aspects of life ?
@@Ferofero8 yes because it adds up. I also take protein shake, creatine, collagen, magnesium, vitamin d3, omega 3...etc etc so yeah it becomes costly. Collagen and protein also not cheap. It adds up. And i take Niacin instead, which also makes me feel better but much cheaper and more known
@@Ferofero8 "And get better performace in various aspects of life ?" - The research on humans however show no such thing. So for a like 39 years old person, there probably won't be any positive effect at all.
old info, a mixed bag, have neglected to cite the important studies that arre out there
Peter Attia the NAD+ arrives on ice and you supposed to keep it in he refrigerator
I will stick to 3x1g Nicotinic acid and 3x250mg Niacinamide with equal amount of betaine
Well maybe it's placebo.. but that's sure a lot of placebo from a lot of people speaking positively about this stuff. Some times you gotta ago with your own body
So, why not just do the tissue biopsies that u referred to. Instead u want to study dogs????
frank brown
Dogs are being studied - have already been involved in clinical trials on NMN and Rapamycin for efficacy and safety...just one small part of a huge research project,
"The Dog Aging Project."
I assume this is why dogs were mentioned here in this video as good candidates for clinical trials on these 2 molecules - except that the Dog Aging Project wasn't mentioned, here - not sure why.
I presume that they do know that dogs involved in the
Nationwide 'Dog Aging Project'' that began, oh, maybe 8 years ago - were involved in clinical trials for NMN, and then for Rapamycin, with very good results.
I can't imagine these two doctors wouldn't know about this project, because it's a huge bio project on aging.
Dogs were chosen to study aging (in canines and humans) because they age much like we do (only faster); they share our same environment and are prone to the same debilitating diseases of aging as humans.
The project was started in 2014 and is ongoing. It involves tens of thousands of domestic dogs across the nation.
There are over 20 different scientific research entities involved in the project, including University of WA, (where the project originated), Tufts University Veterinary Research hospital, Texas A&M, Veterinary Research Hosp, hundreds of pet clinics & veterinary research scientists, as well as the pet families who volunteered their dogs for this project.
@@barbarafairbanks4578 I believe the Dog Aging Project tests the effect of Rapamycin only, not NMN.
Many people outside laboratory been taking NR and NAD with positive results. Why not interview those people instead of this anti everything guy?
If taking more precursor could result in more sirtuins expression, than taking more protein should result in bigger muscles. LOL.