#14 - Robert Lustig, M.D., M.S.L.: fructose, processed food, NAFLD, and changing the food system
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ธ.ค. 2019
- Original release date: 9/10/2018
In this episode, Rob Lustig - a researcher, an expert in fructose metabolism, and a former pediatric endocrinologist - discusses what’s wrong with the current food environment, and what we can do to reduce our chances of becoming part of the obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) epidemics. Rob recently earned a Master of Studies in Law because he believes that educating people about sugar from a scientific standpoint is only half the equation: the other half involves changing policy, which he explains in this episode.
We discuss:
-What’s the difference between glucose and fructose? [7:00];
-Do we have biomarkers that can give us some indication of average exposure to fructose over a given period of time? [14:20];
-What’s the difference between ALT and AST? [18:45];
-Inflammation, endothelial function, and uric acid [21:30];
-Is there something that fructose does better than glucose? [23:45];
-For children that undergo a remarkable shift from metabolic health to metabolic derangement, is there a concern that these kids suffer an epigenetic hit that makes it harder for them later in life? [26:15];
-How many times do you have to introduce a savory food vs a sugary food to an infant before they will accept it? [29:30];
-How are alcohol and fructose similar in how they affect the brain? [33:51];
-Advice for parents and kids for creating a sustainable environment that’s going to prevent them from running into metabolic problems [40:30];
-Why do some populations have a higher risk of NAFLD? [45:42];
-What causes NAFLD? [48:45];
-Is insulin resistance the result of NAFLD or is NAFLD the result of insulin resistance? [56:00];
-HRV, cortisol, and norepinephrine [1:00:30];
-What are the actual mechanisms that links metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, fatty liver, and type 2 diabetes? [1:03:00];
-Is the food industry still saying that all calories contribute equally to adiposity and insulin resistance? [1:09:00];
-What is the difference between soluble and insoluble fiber and why do you need both? [1:13:00];
-How can we change the food system when 10 companies control almost 90 percent of the Calories we consume in the US? [1:15:00]; and
-More.
Show notes page: peterattiamd.com/roblustig/
About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 10 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is the founder of Attia Medical, PC, a medical practice with offices in San Diego and New York City, focusing on the applied science of longevity. The practice applies nutritional biochemistry, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, techniques to increase distress tolerance, lipidology, pharmacology, and four-system endocrinology to increase lifespan (delaying the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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It's not hyperbolic to say that Dr. Lustig is a national treasure. God bless that man and his fight for public health.
Hyperbolic 😂 There's nothing big or clever about being a Sesquipedalian
Peter, as a Dietitian & Molecular Biologist interested in longevity pathways (FOXO3, sirtuins, AMPK, mTOR, epigenetic methylation) and metabolic health, I really thank you for this podcast episode. I've been following Dr. Lustig for years as he really speaks to the molecular biologist in me, but I haven't come across such a detailed talk before. Really great, great episode! 🙂
Thank you. As someone living very well with MS since diagnosis 27 years ago, and major changes in diet and lifestyle I appreciate The Drive and Dr. Lustig is one of my favorite experts on diet!
Amazing chat! Thanks Dr Attia and Dr Lustig! Very inspired by hearing that Dr Lustig went and studied Law so that he can understand and navigate the murky commercial, corporate world to help all of us. More than the science, in this particular podcast, the drive and passion of Dr Lustig got to me. Thank you Dr Peter Attia for bringing this legend to us on this Podcast! Please keep up the good work!! Cheers
It was so much fun seeing these 2 people geek out.
Keep up the good work man, we need people like you to keep us moving forward!
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The perfect podcast doesn’t exi…..
Lustig and Attia chewing the fat? I’m fan girling.
It's truly remarkable to have the opportunity to listen and access this vital information. My sincere thanks to Peter and Dr. Lustig.
I've been listening to Robert Lustig MD for a number of years on TH-cam mostly. Even though this is not a brand new podcast it explains and clarifies so many of the concepts of a liver function fatty liver insulin, insulin use, insulin resistance uric acid metabolism the downstream consequences of what food to eat and how to impact the food industry thus improve our diets in the population adult and children. In short this was clear informative and practically useful.
Wonderful information! Dr Lusting has changed my life! Sure wish everyone could hear this lecture. Thank you for providing this information.
I keep sharing these
I wish this was longer...
Oh, there is a joke that should follow that statement... but that aside, I agree with you.
Several other people are also very informative and provide further information on similar topics. Here are a few names that you can also find on TH-cam.
Dr. Stephen Phinney
David Diamond
Zoe Harcombe
Gary Taubes
Nina Teicholz
Tim Noakes.
Read Fat Chance by Lustig all his TH-cam videos are fascinating
Thanks Peter! A powerhouse of information with passion from both doctors! Can you just stand on the sidelines with these public health issues?
Great info. Please continue fight for all of us. Thx for both of you doctors.
What a beautiful conversation and discussion! Your conversation and discussion in science and medicine is sounding very poetic.
Listening to Dr Attia interviewing experts (as he is himself) is like going back to my college days taking classes I loved from professors who were outstanding in presenting complex material in an understandable manner.....
A very, very interesting interview. One that I have now filed for ready access, ie as a 'watch again' reference. A great balance between deep-dive and easy to understand. A joy to listen to Attia and Lustig, both excellent communicators.
I do hope Dr Lustig is successful in this challenge, in exposing the vested interests and effecting real change. Should he be, and am sure we all hope he (and those others in his camp) will be, then a generation from now he may well be regarded pretty much as Sir Richard Doll is now wrt tobacco.
Good luck sir.
You guys should have a podcast together. This is mind blowing.
Hi Dr Attia... I recently listened to one of your other podcasts. I'm glad now that I kept an open mind and came back to listen again.
While I'm not regretful of my scathing reply to the other podcast as I still feel the same about that. We will leave it buried in the comments that you probably don't have the time to read much of.
As a nurse and a patient, I deeply appreciate you having guests like Dr Lustig on. This interview and conversation was well worth my time. I love that Dr. Lustig addresses the issues surrounding food, metabolic disorders and the deleterious effects of sugar, HFCS, and processed food...aka food "stuff"....I have listened to Dr. Lustig many many times and I have yet to hear him mention a big pharma treatment or med as a solution to this problem....because it is not. We need real food period. One more med to mimick healthy fasting (ie; MIT recent research article) or other natural element found in a real food diet (ie: an article I seen today looking to come up with food stuff enriched with a natural gut microbe product that helps generate new nerves in the brain that would help prevent or reverse Alzheimers).
Alzheimers and dementia are both being called type 3 DM. The people, us, our people, need real food and clean water. It's simple and does not require polypharma or pharma.
Big pharma execs must be sweating bullets. Fasting is free, and safe when done with proper education, does not mutilate the gut like weight loss surgeries, helps to heal the gut. We do not need a med for this.
Real food can still be found predominantly around the perimeter of real grocery stores, although Franken stuff like vegetable beef are creeping in, made in a lab.... again why should anyone eat lab made food. If plant based is so great why is there any market for an oxymoron of that fake stuff for the taste or mimicry of meat??
We the people need to listen to our bodies. For some, there is a serious disconnect between our minds, our mouths, and our organs etc. The alarms of the organs will get louder and louder the sicker people get. At what point will we stop listening to commercials for more and more meds...all have side effects many of them adverse. I'm tired of seeing people flying kites and sailing boats in commercials to entice desperate people to try a new med....their commercials should not be allowed. Who is funding their research for development??? Follow the money everyone.
The people are waking uppppp. ⏰ tic tock
I can't stop listening to you guys = ) I might have already listened to 90 % of Dr. Lustig and to your videos as well, Peter. Happy I could order you books from Brazil!
What an awesome podcast!
Fantastic video and guest
Gonna go for a 2nd listen.
A few years ago I listened to The talks I could find from Dr. Lustig, and thought he was missing some, which I sought elsewhere.
In the past 9 months I've realized nothing was missing, he had just targeted his talks for a more layman audience.
Lots to learn here.
Wonderful conversation, never heard this much useful info in one podcast, thanks.
GREAT INFORMATION GREAT GUYS
The last minutes represent a topic for a long conversation as such. Sooo important. "Brisant" as we say in german...
Please do a episode about scfa..
this was great!
Amazingly VALUABLE info 👍👍 ☯️☕
I hope you invite Dr Lustig back soon for further discussion
great guest = great content!
23:45 he was saying something important but peter interrupts.
54:27 talk about oxidation as clearance and exports as clearance two input two output in the liver.
All because of denovo lipogenesis. Or the sugar converting to fat in the liver.
I would love to know the source of the study mentioned in this interview which looked at how many times it takes for a child to accept a savory food versus sweet food I've been looking and looking and cannot locate this study.
Look into Peter Attia's reference he includes with this podcast. Also look into Robert Lustig MD books they will likely have references for this. Also look on Google with the title of the study and the chief investigator when he lists in his discussion.
Many thanks, Peter. One thing I can't seem to find an answer for is the effect of artificial sweeteners on keto diet. Are they acceptable or not? What are the health effect? Are they metabolized the same way as fructose?
Not metabolized but they can cause insulin spikes in some. Main issue is it keeps you wanting sweet taste. It's a good transition but long term better to eliminate. I actually now use real sugar in small quantities to make sure I limit consumption of treats. Using artificial sweetener gives you licensed to eat more.
Give up all sweet things and after a while everything will start to have surprising hints of sweetness since your taste for sweetness will become much more sensitive.
@@PieInTheSky9 This is true. I recently had some 100 percent chocolate and it tasted almost slightly sweet. The last time I had some (before minimizing sugar), it tasted bitter.
Wow blew away
U.K sliced bread does not go stale as bread used to. It stays soft & goes mouldy. It is full of sugar & seed oil.
Wonder Bread ". Wonder Bread builds strong bodies 8 ways" 1950s advertised on Howdy Doody. 1960's ". Builds strong bodies 12 ways" One of the first companies to introduce sliced bread.
Sorry you brought it up I bet. lol
37:25 talks about behavioral addictions.
01:07:00 summary
What is the problem with capri sun drinks?
Fructose. They are poison
Another question is - can you use pure fructose to replenish your liver glycogen (and later muscle glycogen from the liver) and stay in ketosis since fructose doesn't raise insulin?
No. Fructose works like alcohol, to simplify things. It looks like very similar in the Kreisler cycle. It’s poison.
The glycemic index diets said to use agave syrup, which is 90% fructose. Horrible for your health. I really think the only fructose should be in whole fruit
According to this podcast, you can use fructose to replenish your liver glycogen. However, it's unnecessary because your liver glycogen will end up being replenished through normal eating. Fructose cannot be used to replenish glycogen in the muscle.
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So for long (10 hour) endurance sports (Ironman events) what is the best way to fuel if not with Fructose?
Fat
Long endurance activity is where ketogenic/higher dietary fat excel
@@jamlzs Yes and no. Ketogenic diet doesn't work the same way for everyone. I was able to get my six-pack (not the beer kind) on the diet, however, it was not without side effect, the most pronounced being cramps - I could get cramps on my abs, biceps, not even talking about calf. Tried magnesium, didn't work. Couldn't complete a WOD for this reason, switched to weightlifting, which isn't that glycogen dependent. But loading up on carbs once a week helped without throwing me out of ketosis. I think it's just because different people have different rate of gluconeogenesis. From the works of Peter Attia himself as Dr. Volek and Phinney it is shown there is 80/20 fat/carb energy sourced during the ultramarathon runs. This means your body still needs to provide that 20%, and if the rate of gluconeogenesis is not keeping up with the consumption, you can still get bonked. Some keto-ultramarathoners load up on carbs right before the run to prevent that.
As to fueling up, Dr. Lustig said in another video, if you are running an ultramarathon and your liver is glycogen depleted, you can use the sports drinks with fructose with no problems. Just avoid doing it all the time.
glucose
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Can anyone summarize this? Thanks!
@Harry Moorehouse how bout fasting for days?
Feed the gut (fiber) protect the liver, no highly processed foods.
Good real food doesn’t have to be expensive. I buy my meat and eggs in bulk and I am saving a lot since stopping my sad diet
So no more fructose. Ever. Thank you!
Easiest yes, but your body can also make fructose via glucose. See Dr. R Johnson.
Fructose in whole unadulterated fruit should be ok, because it contains fiber and usually makes up a small % of the total sugar in fruit.
@@jonathancameron9491 like apples?
How to drop your ALT?
Mine was 27 last year this time. I'm at 16 now. I went to a ketogenic diet and never consume vegetable oils. Fat burners can clean fatty livers and pancreases quickly due to the body's oxidative priorities.
Eat real food. Don’t eat processed food. I listened to another one on the commonwealth, and yup, dropped my ALT to healthy levels.
Peter interviewed Layne Norton and agreed with him in almost everything, Now he interviewed Lusting and agree also. The problem is that Layne does not agree with Lustig, so???? You tube is promoting a lot of confusion to the public.
33:00 chronic stimulation of neuron leads to neuronal cell death.
But receptors can be healed contrary to what he said because of neuroplasticity.
They’re not healed per-se. Once a neuronal cell is dead, it’s dead, however through neuroplasticity other neuronal cells can form new connections
Real food can be economical. Fir example, a whole Avocado in a wrap with spinach and cream cheese comes in under $4. Ok, it's not all real food, but still cheaper than burger, fries and a coke.
Other thoughts, five dollars will buy a lot of potatos, or two bags of beans. I think real food can be had on a shoestring, for sure.
Time to prepare? Depends.... potatos can be microwaved, and an avocado wrap is a 5 minute prep.
I think the cost time idea is to some degree a mental block.
People need to learn to plan ahead. Cook and freeze for convenient use later, especially when they’re eating at the expense of taxpayers. Lentil soup with kale and turkey Italian sausage from Bon Apetít costs $1.77 per serving. People are lazy and make excuses about food deserts and being forced to eat McDonald’s.
As of 2022 to add 20% and more percent to the cost of food thanks to the Biden Administration< political but real comment>.
So behavioral addiction be reversed?
What addiction Quit looking at your phone every time you turn around.
Cutest ending comment ever :)
47:00 talk about Latino are more risk for fatty liver.
Which is BS. In the USA a Latino is a person that was born in a country that speaks Spanish. You can be 100% white caucasian and yet considered a Latino, or 100% black and be a Latino and 100% native and be Latino. It's a silly classification and a dangerous one when it's used for profiling in the medical field.
@@mvurquiza. Yes... yes president. Yes. . President Nixon who came up with the term Latino.
Don't nitpick. He means people who have Central South American indigenous biology.
I'm not on board with the idea of "feed the bacteria in your gut, or they'll feed on you" from Dr. Lustig. If that's the case vegans would have much healthier gut than ketoians... I had been on keto diet for a year and never had a gut issue. I know some vegans with serious IBD... Is there scientific evident to backup the feed the gut bacteria (with more plant fiber) theory?
Carnivors like lions hyenas do have guts with a microbiome.. different bugs hence. But they eat not only the muscles of their prey, they love the organs. No carnivore on earth eats only the muscles...
Vegans can have serious IBD not because of the bugs but because of some difficult proteins of grains, nuts and beans: the gliadine and another type of proteins. If a protein is not digested properly (the quality of one's digestiv enzyme the protease) they are peptids coming then into the blood and that is inflammatory, antigenic. That why I eat neither grains, nor seeds, nor beans, only veggies with some animal products. Because I have this problem. Carnivores have short guts. Herbivores have long ones with different chambers. Humans are in between, with respect to the gut's lengh.
THATS WRONG !!! 58 min Glut 4 is MUSCLE
Peter “every guest is my good friend”Attia.
These 2 men are very cool and smart, but they need to simplify the lecture for the general public and translate it into the language that is easier to understand and digest, if they want the people to take action on it.
Yes. I have heard Lustig talk to regular news and he does “go simple.” I feel like I am back in college
I don’t get where you want everyone to practice what you put out there, not what I personally do. I understand you caved, but people need people that stick it out, the good and the bad.
This man redpilled me so hard about the way I used to eat that his voice sort of scares me now
Mother apple!
Real food is grown, processed food is manufactured.
Apple 30 calories? No. Not important but that basic mistake reduces his otherwise brilliant insights.
That’s a tiny apple.
a small apple is 70g, it has around 30 calories. it is still an apple.
sorry, you can only profit from my input once.
An apple has 100ca
yeah 30 calories made me rethink everything they were saying
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I thought this peter dude was frigging smarter than give his kid sugar/junk food/b day cake... unsubscribe!
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