"Anti-Aging" Drugs - NAD, metformin, & rapamycin | The Peter Attia Drive Podcast (Ep 207, AMA 35)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
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In this “Ask Me Anything” (AMA) episode, Peter is joined by special guest, Dr. Matt Kaeberlein. Together they answer many questions around the field of aging with an emphasis on three specific molecules-NAD, metformin, and rapamycin-and their purported geroprotective qualities. They first discuss aging biomarkers and epigenetic clocks before breaking down the advantages and limitations of the most common experimental models being used today to study aging and pharmacological possibilities for extending lifespan. Next they dive deep into NAD and the much-hyped NAD precursors, nicotinamide riboside (NR) and nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN). They compare data from NAD precursors to studies on metformin and rapamycin, assessing how they stack up against each other and using the comparison as an opportunity to illustrate how to make sense of new experimental data and make smart decisions about how to approach future research.
In this sneak peek, we discuss:
00:00 - Logic behind comparing NAD precursors to rapamycin and metformin;
03:49 - Aging biomarkers: current state, usefulness, and future promise;
12:37 - Epigenetic clocks: definition, use case, and limitations;
In the full episode, we also discuss:
- Advantages and limitations of studying aging in non-humans and the strengths and weaknesses of different model systems;
- Aging studies: importance of control lifespans and the problems with reproducibility;
- Intro to NAD, potential role in aging, relationship to sirtuins, and more;
- NAD precursors (NR and NMN): current data;
- Human studies with NAD precursors;
- Comparing NAD lifespan data to data from metformin and rapamycin;
- Defining a “clean drug” and a “dirty drug”;
- Reason for the lack of rapamycin studies in humans compared to NAD and metformin;
- Ranking the geroprotective molecules in terms of risk and reward; and
- More.
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 40 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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The title is not accurate description for the content.
Time wasted.
Exactly what I thought 😅actually it happened often here.
I am reporting it for having a misleading title. The title appears to be unscrupulous click bait.
You're not kidding. I jumped around looking for the "compare and contrast" and found nothing. I'm damn glad I didn't patiently listen to the whole thing.
I was under the impression that this podcast was going to provide more in-depth information as to how drugs like metformin, NAT and Rapa myosin benefits for slowing down aging/reversing 18/increasing life and health spam. Instead this podcast was more about stating the obvious and everything that we already know which is finding valuable bio markers to determine whether these medication/supplements are actually benefiting any of those objectives. This was more of a podcast of two really smart guys stating the obvious in which that it’s really hard to determine any of these objectives on basic pre-existing biomarkers.
You need to be a paying subscriber to Peter Attia's podcast channel to see the full interview.
this was just the tease.
He's just an egomaniacal salesman- just like David Sinclair. And, yeah, CLICK BAIT af title with no regard for wasting our time.
@Richard Breeze his subscription but he isn’t here to extend his lifespan to waste it on us, which is understandable. He isn’t claiming you will live longer if u buy his subscription, he is just selling his thoughts and time, which is legit. If you wanna go and read and understand all these studies and draw your own conclusions go ahead and stop bitchin. Even his free stuff is better than what your insurance is paying your doctor for.
Exactly, this episode wasted my 30 mins.
Great conversation. Aside from VO2 max, grip strength etc, it can be beneficial to assess overall cell function including mitochondrial function and oxidative stress. We know that with aging comes cell senescence and if we can test markers that point at cell senescence, we can also intervene and prevent premature aging. I would also add that adding neurological tests like the WAVI brain scan can be beneficial.
The larger podcast on this was more helpful than this podcast...I am a 60 year old female on metformin at three times a week low dose(850 MG) for 4 months. No exercise side effects. In fact, I lost my post-menopause belly and it has helped my cardio efforts and weights. Lowered my AIC. Thanks for answering my questions on Rapa... I will most likely explore this in a few years..
May I ask why just 3 times a week? What I am reading is 800 mg to 1000mg daily for antiaging.
@@chrism2794 because it has a tendency to blunt the positive effects of exercise. its best to pulse Metformin
Found this video title misleading. Didn't see a conversation about any of the three specific drugs/supplements mentioned in the title. Seems that they are behind a pay wall.
Ironic that the conversation talks about commercialising longevity research.
You have to include an intensive MRI brain scan in the 'rate of aging' and predisposition to death.
..... Mic drop moment 👊
You did not compare NAD,metformin,rapamycin or even discuss them.
Pretty sad that they chat about everything else except NAD, metformin and rapamycin 🤣
This video is the definition of clickbait
You need to be a paying subscriber to Peter Attia's podcast channel to see the full interview
@@terrymeland9989 I’m aware, I’m just saying that this small clip doesn’t touch the subject at all - like talk 0% about what the title is saying! It should have been titled “which bio markers can be corollated with aging”
@@terrymeland9989 SHILL bot.
@@ellinaras75 You're replying to Attia's shill bot.
@@f-authority6926 I’m pretty sure they have something nice to say about NAD and Peter doesn’t want to let it slide for free since he knows that Sinclair is making money out of it 😁
Great to see a science-based review of NAD precursors and comparison to drugs like Rapamycin and Metformin. And, the ranking of Rapamycin well above the others is good to see.
Scientifically it’s nice to see but rapa is unavailable to the general public for off label use and also costs insane amounts of money, while it’s pretty easy to get metformin. At least that’s the situation here in Europe.
@@followp if you want it, you can get it and probably for (a lot) less money than nmn/nr. I got a prescription and just got it from a local pharmacy and eveb have my health insurance pay for it but when looking for it you could also order in india and the indian prices seem much lower than nr/nmn
What about taking the 3 together?
@@chrism2794 Many people do. Probably good, though there are other drugs like acarbose and SGLT2 inhibitors (canagliflozin, etc.) that seem better options than metformin (have longer lifespan improving effects).
@@chrism2794 Yes, many people are doing that.
Another fantastic episode! What was the 3rd product in the stack for fertility/libido? Maca, Tongkat, and ? It sounded like “Systanche” but can’t find that anywhere. Thanks!
I think they said Cistanche Tubulosa Extract. It's herb just like the other two
I still don't understand what an epigenetic clock even *could* tell us. For instance, if a given clock says I'm "40," say, does that simply mean I have the biomarkers of an average 40 year old? That sure wouldn't be good, because the average 40 year old, at least in America, cannot be confused for anything resembling healthy. Most middle aged folks are overweight, for instance. So does "40" mean I'm an unhealthy 40 year old? And what would that even tell me? Do we know how long unhealthy 40 year olds are likely to live? Or is it equally likely that an unhealthy 40 year old dies at 63 as it is that they die at 80?
Wouldn't long-term use of rapamycin cause an adverse effect on the microbiome?
Took the nad for a few years, noticed nothing felt like i was wasting money, should be just exercising more and eating better
That's because taking NAD orally won't help, the liver destroys it before it reaches the intestines for absorption.
To see results, you need to take NAD via IV drip. If you wnat a pill take NMN or NR.
As always, such a great video/podcast. Thanks so much Pete abs Matt. How would you compare these with the geroprotective effect of exercise?
Nice spam bot- they didn’t even mention the meds 😂
@@kbkesq That's just a sneak peak...
Excellent discussion. David Sinclair has done the epigenetic tests on mice with fascinating results.
Unfortunately rarely results on mice translate to the same results on humans.
I really like the assumption of knowing and improving the body organs is very important .. i was wondering how the fasting and adult athletes that have a very high consumption of food including the use of insulin and eating enormous amounts of food to generate more muscle . Does this have an effect for later ? I believe a lot of them become insulin resistant Any thoughts? I understand you only talking about the average population
If the postmortem and other information gathered from Life Insurance companies was aggregated, you would be able to make good predictions on health outcomes when you put the health lifestyle and final lifespan of individuals together in a chart. There's an episode from the podcast or called day in the life of a ceo, where a life insurance agent says they can tell you what you're going to die from
What are the inflammatory markers?
VEGF
ADH
ACTH
Anticardiolipins
VIP
MSH
TGF-B1
MMP9
PAI-1
C3a
C4a
von Willebrand factor
What were these 3 thinking with that title? They are so much better than that.
I'm glad I skimmed through.
Can’t Methylation and telomeres be measured?
I am doing intermuscular injections of NAD plus and taking metformin. Anyone else combining?
Be careful with this. It is not so well researched area that anyone can claim no sideffects.
@@peterking3131 English much? NAD injections and intravenous delivery methods have been studied.
CLICK BAIT TITLE! They didn't talk about any of the 3 in the title. Just rambled on abt epigenetic clocks- wgaf. I realize you're just a salesman at this point "doctor", but... jfc, nice credibility implosion. You copy other people's free content and then monetize it. Basically an MD onlyfans...
This is excerpt of a longer podcast which is great...
So. No Biomarkers for ageing. “Eye balling??????” What? How subjective is that? It is the most unscientific thing I have ever heard!
Commercialization is growing in this field. David Sinclair leads this game on the borderline of fake.
Really curious if NMN / trans-resveratrol are moving the healthspan needle in a meaningful way. Lately I've been seeing things online that appear to throw cold water on Sinclair's research. I still take them, but.......is it worth it?
I wouldn’t waste my money as long as they don’t come through with a human based study. It’s actually somewhat of a joke to be selling this stuff with such a grand claim and not providing any proof that it actually works. And I’m quite sure there is a reason why they don’t, that’s why I’m not buying it.
I recommend NR/pterostilbene to my friends, those that do take it say that it improves their energy. So even if it doesn't lengthen health span, I continue to take it because it does seem to improve my energy levels. To be honest, I haven't taken myself off of it to see if I more easily tire without it. Thanks for the question, I'm going to try that and see what happens, but after I retire in several months, because I'm way too busy to stop anything that might interfere with me performing my best.
@@glouie if I was you I would worry much more about what it does to cancerous cells if you happen to create one (it might speed progression up) instead of worrying to what will happen if you stop using it. Another question unanswered by the manufacturers.
I use MNM with no side effects, it's expensive but worth it... Consistency on any supplement.
@@superfit60 MNM's are delishiss. 😆
I read the comments before viewing and realised seeing this would be a waste of time. Thanks commenters!
❤
The way I understand it when companies gauge a person's biological age is that it is compared to others their own age, I dont think this is being dishonest at all.
Attia keeps pushing higher V02max and higher muscle mass for longivity. I don't see many Olympians going on the list of longest living humans.
But, an 85 year old Olympian probably didn't continue to train, and probably didn't train the way Attia trains. We would have to look at Olympians from the last 10 years in 50 years.
Olympians clearly abusing their bodies and overtrain while at their peak, Peter Attia supports a lifelong exercise model. With that there is always a concern regarding injuries and death due to pushing an older body to its limits.
The physical capacity for repair diminish with age. Late life Anaerob and aerobic HiT might put to much stress on the body. Elite olympic runners put a lot of stress on their bodies. To much??
The 5 Blue zones do nothing Peter speaks of! I live in Costa Rica, on the Nicoya Peninsula, where the onset of disease starts at 80.. Life expectancy in the U.S. ends at 77 now...
Longevity doesn't equal living the longest. Your genetics are determined, all one can do is maximize health through diet and exercise. A fall can kill or at least significantly decondition geriatric patients. Grip strength and cardiovascular fitness can reduce falls and help blunt the gradual decline in physical condition. The goal is to do things that may be considered basic, like getting off the floor from a seated position, for as long as possible like in your 80s or 90s.
Disappointing. I learned very little about the molecules mentioned in the title. How about the list of questions mentioned in the introduction? Nada.
Interesting topic, but please allow me to suggest you don’t take so long to get to the meat of the subject. You took roughly the first half of the video to explain why you choose the subject you did. And then you suggested you were going to answer questions which I never heard because I stopped at the half way point. Way to much wandering for three obviously smart guys.
Berberine acts like metformin for. Diabetics. Does it apply here?
You can take both together.
@@chrism2794 seems like they’re asking about swapping berb for metformin, not asking about taking both, no?
Content has nothing to do with the title
Better title: “Anti-Aging Drugs/NAD/Metformin/Rapamycin-Discussed Behind Paywall. Not here.”
This title is inaccurate; why is this completely mislabeled?
When did we talk about rapa? Yikes
Peter clearly a lab technician into drugs not a into "how can we find a solution" type of guy
I find it very disappointing that Dr. Attila limits access to his excellent podcasts to well-off people who can afford his very expensive membership fees.Very important health information is thus withheld from a section of the population that needs it most.
Attia is a great doctor, scientist and communicator...but he is also quite arrogant.
Well there is money to be made… can’t afford to vacation, or indulge a mistress without it!
At least cover the topic even lightly to want us to become members. This was a waste of my time glad I increased the speed to 1.75. Talk about snake oil salesmen these three are kings
Clickbait
Misleading tittle
RIDICULOUS. NO SINGLE WORLD ABOUT NAD. BUT ITS IN THE NAME OF PODCAST. JUST NOT USEFULL BORING INFO.
What in the world are you guys talking about? nothing about your video title. Stop wasting our time.
Woo, sciency. Waste of time if you wants anything more than opinions.
Wow. Really misleading title there Attia.
Shouldn't be surprised though. The gross majority of his TH-cam content is click bait titles that offer no definite advice on really anything. Just end up leading you to his paid content on his website
You need to be a paying subscriber to Peter Attia's podcast channel to see the full interview
yeah and its so expensive, 20$ month?! why is such important information withheld from the public for so much money?
@@terrymeland9989 BOT!
This is interesting. If you clicked on an amazon title which led you to a book and you had to pay to read the book's content, would you still call the link clickbait?
The fact is that Peter does make the promised content available-it's just that you have to pay for it. He doesn't put annoying ads on videos, he doesn't promote advertisers incessantly like others do, he puts so much amazing content out there, and still: ungrateful people complain because for AMA videos you have to pay to hear the entire talk.
I find it slightly disrespectful and entitled.
@@thecoolfool007 How many things do you do for free? The fact that for the vast majority of his interviews (just not the AMA sessions) you have the opportunity to listen to ad-free talks, for which Peter pays (he has analysts and people who produce the interviews-and also time is money so the fact that he dedicates hours of his own time to educate you and everyone else is a cost to him) to sit down with some of the most amazing experts and break down important concepts that you have access to FOR FREE.
Then, when he does put out paid content, which is basically his AMAs, he gets heat for it. It's just hard for me to understand how you are not more grateful for what he's doing.
????? Interesting i guesd...but an entirely different topic. Bizarre that u could give it a title and totally ignore the topic
More bait and switch from Attia. This is an intro to subscribe to his endless windbag videos for 💰 he won’t say anything here about the clickbait title meds. Look elsewhere
Rambling and at times incoherent discussion of aging field. Nothing about the mentioned drugs.
Clickbait
Clickbait