"no context considered, no warning given, no discussion had" is also an excellent way to describe what you did. if you expected them to provide you any of that, you should have given them that same courtesy beforehand.
Sorry Exigeous but you are in the wrong here my dude, you did violate the policy that they have put in place to deter this kind of behavior to begin with. Frankly a 30 day ban is not a big deal its like getting community service as a punishment irl and it would appear they took your intent into account as well by giving you this slap on the wrist, but at the same time they have to enforce their own rules regardless of the individual at fault if they did not players would loose trust in them and their reputation for good & fair conduct.
As an active rat of several years, I'm gonna be biased here. However, in my opinion, you were in the wrong. I understand your plea for considering the context, but the fact of the matter is that the context dosen't "refund" the time and effort spent on saving you, and (hopefully not) depriving other people who are in greater need of our time. In reality the time it took to join the fuelrats chat as a client is exactly the same amount of time it'd have taken you to join the ratchat (where we just talk, and don't use it for active cases) and ask if someone had the free time for a demo. Lastly, while I do believe you entirely that it wasn't malicious, rules have to be upheld to be effective, and we can't let the anyone with some profile come in and demand our time on their schedule, and then expect to have the rules bend on top of that. That'll leave us open to a lot of disruptions that could end up costing the lives of players who can't bounce back from death as easily as a veteran player.
If it "costs the lives of players who can't bounce back from death" then revoke the relevant dispatcher's privileges - they clearly don't know how to ask a case to log out when workload rises or a rat is taking extra time.
@@geretstarseeker453 Absolutely not and you missed my point. First off, we do lose clients, due to language barriers, errors, miscommunication and instancing, it's a shame, but the more cases active simultaneously, the more likely it is to happen. And even then, having all hands on deck for a single case, can improve odds immensely, simply by having people who can speak the native language, or know the platform better. If we get people who don't need rescues start calling in in cases such as these, resources depletes, and people die more often, that's just a fact of life. My point wasn't that Exigeous is directly responsible for a single death, but if he showcases this as a viable strategy to inch out another million or two from a multi-million run, he is setting a precedent that'll put a bigger,. unnecessary stress on our service, which will, inevitably lead to more deaths, regardless of the performance of dispatch.
To me in his shoes i would just take that ban. For transparency it does deserve to be stated he broke the rules, as to encourage players to follow procedure, but nothing malicious was done, it was a great teaching opportunity and he is a veteran player, If he needs it again in less then 30 days he should fix how he plays for making rookie mistakes like that but he is good enough and probably rich enough to afford that mistake to just cut his lose and try again. Honostly I don’t hold it against either for this just take the ban and roll with it is all he should do from here but good to mention it so others don’t get banned for same mistake
So where's the rules stated at on the site exactly, I went to look and see yesterday, to see if there was a clearly defined statement in the tos, I read it all the way through and perhaps I missed something, but I did not see it there, and let's forgo the common sense argument, as not everyone's common sense is the same. I've also considered that perhaps there's an agreement or additional terms that only show up when making a request for service?
@@arkman117 It falls under this section: "Do not deliberately run out of fuel in order to cause a rescue. Distracting dispatch and taking up valuable resources that could be used to rescue actual clients may lead to mistakes and indirectly kill clients, this is taken very seriously. If you want to arrange training exercises the drill channels are available for your use at any time."
UncappingBadger This is false. As Exegious was a registered Rat, different rules applied to him. Rat streaming rules state that IRC is not to be streamed/recorded under any circumstance whatsoever. It also set a precedent for others to follow in his footsteps and attempt to make similar “rescue” requests.
@UncappingBadger The only time I've seen it done the entirety of the exercise was handled in a secondary channel, explicitly for the purpose of protecting real cases...
There are a large number of stations close to Borann. If one really wants to mine with those extra limpets and cargo, a perfectly viable strategy is to leave a fuel scoop and FSD booster lying around one of those stations. Once done mining, pop into the station and switch out the collectors for the scoop and FSD booster. 5 minutes extra tops (and that is assuming you cannot reach your sell station without them).
@@blemat bingo. I always do this, the only case where I could understand someone not doing that is not having Horizons and flying in a large ship, as the only station with large pads in Borann is a planetary one. But then again this falls flat since there's plenty of nearby systems with fitting station
Lorenzo Bidinotto I would actually suggest a station out of Borann, preferably close to the arrival star. It will save you climbing out of the gravity well in supercruise. Just high wake, drop into the station, and you are good to go.
@@blemat Personally if i'm in a large ship i find it less of a hassle to dock and depart from planetary bases than starports. Also Brothers Installation is right next to the mining spot as well so there's less time wasted. Still, i think the difference would be minimal anyway. Comes down to preference.
As someone who used to run an Arma clan if you want to run an online community you need to have a zero tolerance policy to breaking the rules. If you make exceptions then people no longer respect them and enforcing them in future becomes far harder. If they had made an exception for a guy who wanted to show them off to his stream viewers then people would cry of favouritism to high profile members of the community and/or former members of the fuel rats. I don't think a lot of the people calling them too strict understand how important adherence to the rules is too keeping an online group stable and drama free. The Fuel Rats were 100% in the right to give you a temporary ban. In fact they probably saw it as a slap on the wrist considering you never use their services. If you wanted to do this kind of thing you should have run it by them as they stated in the email. Intent doesn't matter, you broke the rules, you got punished, they're not required to have a negotiation with you when its that cut and dry. All in all my respect for the Fuel Rats has grown from this. Too many groups would bend over backwards to accommodate high profile members of a community even if it means throwing out the rule book everyone else is expected to adhere to. My advise, put this behind you Exiguous and don't go further with this. Whilst you broke the rules you weren't malicious in it and people recognise that. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.
When you keep any rules too strict you lose what it is to be human, create misery and mistrust for all, and discard the concept of fun. This episode has shown the true face of the fuel rat management (the worker rats were and are awesome) and that is no molehill. The true ugly side of the rat 'top brass' is FAR sadder to me than exigeous' little exuberant infraction.
100% disagree with you. Did to the fact that he had been a fuel rat previously they should of spoken to him and asked for explanation at the very least to his actions. Many people have no idea how to go about calling on them and this stream no doubt aided a handful of commanders in this process.
You decided to "use the rats as a fuel scoop"; to basically avoid docking at a station along the way to refuel, knowing full well you didn't have a scoop (which was a bad decision) and not enough fuel to make it all the way to the sell point. That's not what the rats are for. Being such a high profile player and streaming the event, it sends the message to your followers that this is an ok thing to do and it's not, so I would imagine that the admins decided to apply the punishment to send an equally strong message that this is not ok.
Indeed. Esp as given it was on a stream, it's putting the refuellers at risk of being ganked by others watching the stream; hence the small disposable ships!
@Elite Gamegerous Well OBVIOUSLY he didn't knowingly violate the rules. He's not that kind of guy. I never said he did either, so I don't think your "Nope" / "that's ridiculous" is called for, but whatever.
@@daemonxblaze Let's not forget this is just a game and it's supposed to be fun not bureaucratic and harsh. With the fire department you can't tell the caller to log out into the main menu while the firefighters are on their way, you can with the rats. At worst another cmdr would have been kept waiting 5 mins more.
"No context would be considered" Context is in the message. It looks like they understood the context, and would have preferred you arrange a demonstration ahead of time, instead of using live resources that might have been needed elsewhere. 30 days is a wrist slap.
That is like the first thing that came to my mind when he said that. Glad to see we think alike the fuel rats and I. Still I am not one of them nor do i wish to be. Elite Dangerous is to huge to be able to reach all over with the ships I have with fuel to spare to give to others to refuel them.
yeh, it's a bit click-baity isn't it... a TEMPORARY ban of 30 days is _nuthin!_ ....but doesn't sound as 'cool' and 'must see' as "Fuel Rats gave me a Temporary Ban!"
@@DAGATHire OR - a player who claims to be as expertly experienced in the game as Exigeous should know how to properly jump without a fuel scoop, and also not falsely call the Fuel Rats just because he wants to look cool by having them called out. It would be the same as calling the Fire Department because you wanted to show how quickly they responded, then when they arrived and there was no fire, you got fined, then complained about how you just wanted to "show off their services"
@@firehawk894 its not the same as the fire service mate. it's really just NOT. i mean ffs. its a computer game. lets not equate PLAYING a game to real life time wasting of essential emergency services. It's utterly ridiculous.
From your twitch stream: You were mining with friends and one of them was an off-duty fuel rat. You had plenty of fuel at the time, but you couldn't be bothered setting the filter to either government or economy or looking up EDDB(for your closest station to refuel at, which you were well within reach of). When you finished plotting your route, you realized that you weren't going to make it to your SELL station and THEN called the fuel rats and asked them to meet you at the given system you were going to run out of fuel at. Your two assigned rats made it to your given system before you and you had them waiting a good bit, WHILE you were fussing around, trying to log in to your fuel rat account with the IRC commands. For my thoughts: It sounds like you're trying to butter up your viewers with sympathy with a half-baked story that isn't completely true, for that I've lost respect for you. I don't think you need any explanation since you are a fuel rat and you should already know their rules and ToS. You were also told what you were doing was wrong. It's been over a month and the best thing to do is apologize to your viewers and the fuel rats and move on.
Umm.. I'm kinda new to his channel... Take it you both are also fuel rats that where there the night this happened or are you speaking from another word of mouth that was there?
This is what happens then you think you are to big to follow simple rules. Content creators are not exempt from rules that we are ALL expected to follow.
Eddy G Not only did he try to take advantage of the fuel rats in-game, he's doing it off-game, too. Baited them to get a video with increased views and lots of comments. Sneaky scheme, imo.
@@twobyfor9556 It's more like calling 911 instead of calling the non emergency police line and asking for a demonstration to be scheduled for educational purposes. 911 is the emergency line. Calling when it's anything other than an emergency is a crime. Also, if your demonstration is to go to a restaurant and eat something you know you're allergic to, that's not a demonstration of 911. That's a demonstration of your stupidity.
lol @ these 2 comparing calling for fuel rat assistance in a game to calling 911 in real life. I can see it being like calling a friend or neighbor for help if your low on gas in real life and not sure if you're going to make it to the gas station, but 911? Come on... way over dramatic. The messed up part would be your friend no longer being your friend over it. Yea, it's just like that.
@@Scott283 Except 'calling your friend or neighbour' implies you know them and they're willing to help you out. The fuel rats don't know us. And they help anyway. That sounds a hell of a lot more like an emergency service (911) than a friend or a neighbour helping you out.
I'll give my opinion from the context of a rat and use today as an example. Today we had: 3 code red (oxygen running out) calls and 4 regular calls at the same time. We had immense difficulties managing enough rats to rescue everyone. Putting in a call for this trivial of a reason could be the cause for someone losing their ship, and if a new player or severe enough loss, it will make them not want to play the game. Dont break rules and if you dont need fuel but want to show off rats, give them a heads up.
Hold on, player's that have run out of fuel are advised to leave the game and wait for instructions. So how are they going to lose anything? And Exigeous, from his video, did legitimately run out of fuel so did not break any of the rules set by the FR. At the end of the day, it's a game. No real lives will be lost! And should a player lose their ship/assets because an RC couldnt reach them, well, isn't that their fault in the first place?
@@rapturas Fact's surprised this is a relatively newer comment, but as far as I can tell, that is indeed what you are informed to do, is log out to avoid some critical error. If it is indeed some form of priority based reason, then again, who assessed Ex's issue (as indicated by this poster comment "trivial") to be high priority? Seems like the error would have been on that of the rats who aided Ex. Should have to read terms of service when the concept is simple, run out of fuel, call the rats, get fuel... shouldn't be this damn complex, it's a game, 30 day suspension? idiotic, and they wouldn't have knew the reason should their not have been a video on it. I also love how this post comes off as matter of fact but then drifts into the realm of possibilities... "we had x y and x" and then ended with "if's" and "maybe's" and "possible" did the 7 people plus Ex all get serviced that day? Yes? then it's a mute point... did someone at that time get less of a priority than needed? ending up losing their ship, cargo, and end up quitting? no? then it's foolish hyperbole.
They only have people log out in certain circumstances. I've been rescued by the rats a number of times. Enough that I know the procedure. Name, system location, approximate location in system. Turn off all modules to conserve fuel. They'll ask you if you have the life support countdown. If you do typically they have you log out to preserve the time so that they're in system when you log on. This can matter if you're far enough away they won't get there before the timer runs down. They will then send someone to fuel you. The commander that come is always incredibly nice, will take the time to walk you through how to plot routes based on fuel, how to use a fuel scoop, answer any questions you have, and then stay in system with you until you're safely on your way. The rats are some of the coolest people you'll ever meet in video games. They are beloved to the ED community. So much so if you even try to mess with them entire clans will hunt you down and grief you as punishment. They use their free time to help new and experienced players out of rough spots, all for free. They have rules and those rules should be followed. Exceptions shouldn't be made.
@@FirstBornConservative The fact that he used the service against their TOS is more than enough to warrant a suspension. He used them as a pit stop rather than their intended use as an in-game emergency service. If he wanted to showcase the rats he should have communicated with them ahead of time, instead of "lol well I don't have a scoop and I don't want to stop at a station". The fact that it's a game doesn't really matter when you're promoting a way to abuse a system and waste people's time.
Sounds like you thought you were the exception to the rules "cos streamer". As so many others have said, you're in the wrong and should be humbled. Their reaction was totally appropriate, they were following their rules as you should have been.
It makes perfect sense , you had a station with a large landing pad near enough. Your request could have ended in the player death of another player who needed help in an actual emergency. That is probably what would provoke such a reaction.
but according to the Fuel Rats themselves they have teams of players stationed around the 'verse, I agree that he was in the wrong for calling them, but to ban him for illegal use of a free service when there are plenty of others stationed to help anyone in need. Kind of kills the immersion or need for a group like them.
@@ferretmwalli8886 We aren't an unlimited resource. We have lives, schedules, things to do. We aren't always free. There may be fifty rats in the IRC at any given time, yet only 5 or 6 of us are on active standby, covering PC, Xbox, and Playstation. Yeah, we've got CMDRs all over the galaxy, but that doesn't mean we're available to take clients at every given moment. At the heart of it all, we're just people. The fact that the Fuel Rats have gotten their reliability to the point where people take us for granted is incredible, in a good way.
@@pvppro5036 I was in a similar position the other day. In my fuel scoop-less Type 9. I plotted a route that was too far for my ship. Instead of calling the Fuel Rats I took a detour and docked at a station halfway to my destination to refuel. This is what he should have and could have done.
I suspect that their intent (because of the many people who watch Exigeous' channel) was that they wanted to discourage OTHERS from doing what CMDR Exigeous did. - namely, call on the Rats without being in genuine need. Lets hope they respond and we can know their reasons.
In my opinion that's pretty obvious. Some downside needs to exist for unnecessary use. Especially when it's that extraordinarily public. It's just a token 30 days. Please everyone, let's not come down too hard on the rats. They provide a free service here. They are the closest thing to a charity organization that you'll find in a video game.
You're right, it's no slap on the wrist. It's less than a slap on the wrist really. All you need is 1 friend who can afford fuel limpets to get a refuel. Somehow I'm doubting Exigeous is lacking in friends :)
Douglas Fox I don't disagree in spirit, but that 30 days is a real 30 days, not a token one, and I don't disagree that he should have been banned, but given that they KNEW the intent, not communicating was cowardly. period. The least they could do was send him a "we can't make exceptions because we don't want streamers making this a habit" message. And giving away free stuff doesn't make you immune to criticism.
Dude, it's a suspension.. for breaking the rules. You're reaction is as if they permanently banned you. They even explained in the email that they understand your position, but make it very clear with the suspension that you are not above the rules. This whole video explains how you are a gift to the community and how Fuel Rats should give you some special treatment. It's a showcase of how salty you are..
No, he's noting that their customer service response needs improvement. The unilateral nature of the suspension, without discussion with the Customer, shows an arrogance that needs to be addressed. Given that I am seeing everything third hand, I cannot be positive, but it seems to me that the Fuel Rats, who have a PROCESS, either didn't follow it, or need to update it. He asked (which is all he Can do), they responded; that puts the onus on them. I'll even point out that, in spite of an incredibly condescending attitude, E protected their privacy.
@@Chrystoph1967 oh, they do have a process. They also say this in their ToS: "By connecting to the Fuel Rats IRC network, you agree to abide by the following rules. If you break any of the following rules, you may find yourself banned from the Fuel Rats IRC network and all our other services. If you do not agree, simply disconnect from the network and do not reconnect." And: "Do not request a rescue without being in a situation where you believe you are stranded and in need of help. Do not be involved in or help set up an ambush against rats. Do not deliberately run out of fuel in order to cause a rescue situation. The Fuel Rats have limited available personnel at any given time and spurious cases deplete those resources away from those in actual need. If you wish to arrange a mock rescue with the Fuel Rats to get an understanding of how we work, please contact us about it via our chat channel instead."
@@Racko94 - I was trying to be politic about this, but you completely misconstrued my statement to make your own. Purely from the perspective of a Service Organization, the Fuel Rats dropped the ball in how they dealt with a Customer. They asked no questions of the customer, they went straight to refusal of service (as opposed to explaining why it was inappropriate with a request not to do it again), AND they were discriminatory & went out of their way to give offense when they handed down the punishment. Their actions were high handed, more geared toward someone that was an habitual offender instead of a one off, and blame shifting, because the Request never should have gotten through the Process in the first place.
@@Chrystoph1967 The dude banned is a rat. He's expected to know the rules because he's a part of the service. In addition. You have to click accept to those rules to use the service. He's already accepted them. I'm honestly surprised it was just a 30 day ban. He called the rats when he wasn't even low on fuel when everyone who plays the game seriously knows to treat the FR like an emergency service.
@@Vertaego Sometimes. Rats are really busy, and depending on the time he called, we could have LOTS of things going on. From the hours of 5-9 PM(my time), we usually have at least 3 rescues going on at the same time. A rescue meant for "demonstration" should not be done at a time when people's lives were at risk.
I think you're in the wrong here man. I used the Fuel Rat service just the other day for the first time and the person that came to help me was in the middle of doing something. It took him about a half hour to finish what he was doing to change ships and warp to me. The pilot and dispatcher in chat were real professional and courteous about it. That's an hour of their time for the round trip, not counting the 20 minutes of time I took up asking him a bunch of newbie questions. I know you might consider it a game but some people take this seriously and you should respect that for the free service they provide. I'll even go so far to say that if the leadership needs this type of style to lead (letter of the law), then so be it. It's just that way-- to keep their operation running.
Which is worse to you, a game player group running at 98% efficiency with a smile on their face, or one running at 99% efficiency but with an authoritarian bureaucratic and ruthless hand? In my country the spirit of the law is enforced above the letter of it and I every day I am thankful for it. Otherwise I would get a ticket for making way for a fire engine by briefly ducking into an empty bus lane for 4 seconds.
@@geretstarseeker453 Well, I don't think this was ruthless at all. It was a 30 day ban and Exigeous can use the service after the time is up. Ruthless would be to ban him forever. And even then, if that's how this group wanted to run their free service, then that's the way it goes. Sure it would suck, but it's not that way... and he took one for the team so now we really know. Besides, from a roleplaying aspect, I can respect it. If they want to do black and white, zeroes and ones, then ok. Navigating the galaxy might need this kind of structure and discipline-- and coming from a military family, that's how I think commanders should feel. So, Commander Exigeous, I feel was wrong to complain about how they're not following *his* rules.
Dude, despite your best intentions, if you wanted to put the rats on a public livestream without actual requiring services, you should have told them in IRC and arranged a form of collaboration for your channel as common curtesy; I think this demonstrates that just because your channel is large this does not mean that you are so important to assume you can do whatever you like.
Nor is the fuel rats management so important that they can send correspondence as curt, ruthless, unfun, and bureaucratic as this. They are supposed to represent Elite's finest, brightest side so should be capable of being nice, giving a friendly reminder of the terms of service before coming down like an overzealous parking ticket inspector.
@DC Gaming If you're going to ask someone's age, then you should at least try to act with some kind of maturity. Your grammar and spelling makes it extremely hard to read what you're saying and it all comes off as nothing more than an incoherent mess. As for my age, I'm 30 if you must know. Judging by what you've said, you will basically only hear what you want to hear, and you will defend Exigeous no matter what he says or does simply because you're a fan, so there's no point in me continuing this discussion.
Another entitled content creator thinking they are more important than everyone else and that the rules don't apply to them. They had no choice but to ban you, as you forced them to have to do so to deter others from breaking the rules as you did. In fact, given the situation, it was more important to enforce the rules on you than any "normal person". You publicly broke the rules, and they need to make sure others aren't influenced by your stream to do the same thing. What's worst of all though, is that you couldn't just look at it objectively, accept that you were in the wrong, understand why they had to slap your wrist and deal with it. Instead, you have made it worse but using your platform to try to badmouth them and make them look bad for enforcing their rules on you. I think it's awful that you try to tarnish the reputation of the Fuel rats just because you're annoyed at being treated just like everyone else. All you've done is tarnished your own reputation. You're not special. Grow up.
I'm sure he's more upset they imply their rules run by a code of conduct that caters to his fellow man but in the first sign of trouble they banned him without warning which is unprofessional by those standards, It's understandable he can't help it kinda ingrained in him.
@@salowoonton9922 I mean, he was a fuel rat so he should have been familiar with the ToS. Not to mention that he purposefully didn't refuel when he had ample oppertunity just so he could call the Rats to demonstrate on-stream, which wouldn't have been an issue if he hadn't submitted it as an emergency.
@@salowoonton9922 I mean.. the FR are treated like an emergency service in the the game. And one with a very limited service capability. The IRL equivalent would be calling an ambulance to give you a ride to a hotel because your feet hurt. Oh and the person calling is an EMT and should know better.
Whilst it appears a little extreme, the rules are there for all to see. That being said, it is an excellent opportunity to demonstrate the reprocussions of breaking the rules (as i for one was not aware of this).
I feel like it shouldn't have been a band but it should have been a warning and maybe like a restrictive service kind of thing like when you get a fine in a starport you have limited access to it. maybe like only one or two rescues limited for that month or something like that but just a straight-up ban doesn't seem fair at all
As a drilled rat yourself, you know as well as the rest of us why these rules are put in place. Wanting special treatment due to being a big youtuber for ED, or because you feel like your "unique" enough to deserve it is a pretty bad look. Your a great guy, and your videos help so many players of this game, but you are clearly in the wrong here. Just own up to it and move on.
@@Howling_In_The_Dark Did I threaten you? Did I insult your intelligence or tell you that you're not human? Hardly. I advised you to learn to write better English. If you label everyone you don't like as "Nazi" you not only lose credibility but the word itself loses meaning. When everything's as bad as Nazis, nothing is.
@@antonyduhamel1166 not a real Nazi. They actually hold importance in history. You're being a grammar nazi. Maybe you should educate yourself a bit more kid.or just read the whole comment before you throw a fit like a child 😂 snowflake
Instead of making this video to call out the Fuel Rats for a 30 day suspension, I think the better response would have been to just say "Oops, my bad, I'm sorry. I didn't intend to violate the Fuel Rats' rules, and I won't do it again." You broke the rules, lesson learned, everyone moves on. Making a video to publicly disagree with the decision just creates unnecessary drama. I love your videos, but this one I don't feel serves any constructive purpose.
I’m not seeing the video the same as you at all. It seems more to me like he accepts that he was wrong and just wanted to give his side of the story to make it clear that he wasn’t trying to exploit them or anything. It was just an honest mistake and this video was just meant to explain that.
@@coolhwhip49 I, and I'm sure many others, wouldn't have even known that this whole thing happened if he didn't mention it. If he didn't "give his side of the story", I wouldn't even known that he was "wrong" about something in the first place. He created publicity around the very thing he's disappointed/upset/ashamed about. In other words, the Streisand effect.
I mean it is like calling the police for no reason. Them arriving and saying to your live stream, so that is how you get the police to arrive at your house
My view: You should have contacted the Rats in advance of committing their resources and breaking their rules on a live stream. Given that context, I suspect that you probably left them with no alternative but to treat you like any other CMDR who had done that. Anything else would have been clear case of favouritism, not context, in my opinion.
I agree, that seems like the obvious solution here. I'm sure they would have been happy to stage a demonstration if they were contacted in advance about it.
Lol if he had contacted them for that they would have refused « because » it would be a super bad exemple on how not to call the fuel rats, with high visibility. 30 days ban is more than kind for being so arrogant and bitchy.
This is mindless sheep talk... You all have it in your heads that "WHY" DOES NOT MATTER Thats ludicrous especially in a game that we are trying to encourage new players to invest attention and time into... So sad that all of you fuel rat supporters place the rules of an ingame clan above the value of comrodery brought by what this man did Showing the togetherness of the community and aiding others in finding their ways to the tools which allow them to have a smoother game experience... Time for the sheep to rest your necks if you ask me
@@ryanstreeval4935 i re-watched the part of the stream where he called them and he even said to them he was on a stream. they could have denied him right there but they didn't.
Real EMS would likely just give a very strong warning about this happening. In fact, real EMS would not be allowed to outright ban an individual from their services for any period of time regardless of the nature of the call. This is a game. This isn't real. Having such a hardline, no compromises policy is just being an asshole about it. And even if we grant that the rats intend to take this as seriously as real life, then they have no business outright banning someone from the service they are offering. He made a mistake and he should be open to penalty for that mistake, but being banned from receiving emergency services in this context is mean, lazy, and outright unethical. Two wrongs don't make a right. Rat leadership could have handled this differently.
@@Josh-bb3xi umm irl it can be jail and a fine. If you did it while broadcasting a video they would definitely pursue prosecution. He got a slap on the wrist to dissuade people from making s habit out of this
@@skitzoemu1 thank you for proving my point. like YOU just said, if you abuse real EMS, YOU CAN GO TO JAIL. They DO NOT ban you from calling them, they LOCK YOU UP. Thank you, AGAIN, for proving my point.
I think they only want to respond to emergencys, where you, as it seems were using them as a personal refueling service. You could say that you can abuse their service by doing whatever it is that you're doing, knowing youl run out of fuel, and thinking that you can call them for help over and over again.
“Apparently I was” is as insincere as “I apologize if you were offended”. You don’t care/think you were wrong. You broke their rule. They don’t care what your intentions were, and saying they should stick with the “spirit” of a rule is stupid. Just admit you were wrong instead of trying to say “do I care about the ban, nooooo, I haven’t made a noob mistake like that....”. You simultaneously show you do care (by making this whole video) while also insulting the people they help. I just started playing the game and found this after watching one of your tips videos....I’ve never gone from supporting to not supporting someone as fast. 😂
@@Canadian_Ale A 30 day ban is more like a slap on the wrist to a streamer who will likely never actually need their services. With all due respect I think Exegious is blowing this way out of proportion, a 30 day ban for misuse is a very minor punishment for a very minor offense.
@@Canadian_Ale 30 day ban is nothing. Do you remember when was the last time you have to call upon the help of a fuel rat? Some people never needed it once in the last few years of playing ED.
@Abigail Slaughter I plot all my routes by scoopable stars. Yes it can take longer but I'm guaranteed to not run out of fuel. I also equip all my ships with scoops.
usually i dont call an amulance, when i dont have a car and dont want to use the public transport to go to the doctor, i call them if im unable. They are a rescue service and you didnt need a rescue.
Poor example, people do this all the time. Literally all the time. a solid 25-50% of EMS medical calls are people with minor symptoms wanting a ride to the hospital (when they could have gotten themselves there, or taken an uber/lyft which would have been cheaper than the ambulance). source: former practicing EMT, still connected to local EMS system where I live.
I'm sorry for you but I think you were wrong and they're absolutely right to react swiftly and promptly to this type of action. It would be like calling fire-fighters for a fire you started just to show them off. While they're losing their precious time for your convenience, they can't help someone who's really in need of their assistance. Imagine all youtubers and streamers doing that for the same motives you presented... Anyway, they didn't ban you forever, 30 days is nothing in Elite world.
@@JaaaaaaaC If it were not, why be so outraged about a ban in an imaginary world then? Also, fuel rats don't serve an imaginary world, they are REAL people who invest their own REAL time to help REAL people save their ships which cost them REAL hours of grinding...
As a rat you have to FIGHT to get a case. This isn't a team operating on vastly limited resources critical to saving lives. I should know I'm one of em
This was absolutely justified. You were too lazy to go and fuel up, and as a result you got banned for mis-using a public service. It's like calling the cops on kids playing in the street, it's wasting their time. You think way too highly of yourself.
Woah dude, it's one thing saying the rats were justified. I agree they were in this situation. But saying he's lazy and and selfish is a bit out of turn. He just wanted to demonstrate the process on a stream and didn't fully understand the consequemces of his actions. All in all i don't think Exigeios is deep in the wrong here either, and definitely not lazy. It probably takes longer for the rats to get to him than it did for him to stop at a station and refuel.
@@hopearchangel4624 Then why are you even fucking here? He abused a system meant to help players, thus hurting their experience. That’s not hard to find out.
Dude their rules are literally on their websites terms of service section. And it specifically say this if you can be arsed to scroll down a little: "Do not request a rescue without being in a situation where you believe you are stranded and in need of help. Do not be involved in or help set up an ambush against rats. Do not deliberately run out of fuel in order to cause a rescue situation. The Fuel Rats have limited available personnel at any given time and spurious cases deplete those resources away from those in actual need. If you wish to arrange a mock rescue with the Fuel Rats to get an understanding of how we work, please contact us about it via our chat channel instead." You not knowing their rules are YOUR problem!
Ctuchik , I am a fuel rat and I just wanted to mention that yes, whilst it does state that, the rats also understand that the loss of ship and cargo is a big deal to most people, and I can understand and even identify with the TOS in the need for fuel to be desperate, and in one way, not stopping to refuel along the way at other stations is probably the reason for the ban, as the situation is avoidable. But, if it becomes more of a problem, I may need to have a chat with leadership on the community’s behalf. Let’s see where this goes first...
Honestly, I thought they had some type of charge for this delivery action, be that credits or currency IRL. He’s definitely wrong to do this, at least without mentioning the specifics of the situation to a Fuel Rat leader or something. Blatant misuse of your fellow commanders’ kindness, sir. Hopefully you’ve seen that by now.
Dude, love you and what you do...but this video should have been named "Lamenting a lack of communication in delivering a response to my initial lack of communication" lol
Fuel Rats communication is perfectly acceptable. It's the same simple ban template they'd hand out to ALL PLAYERS. He knows exactly how he broke the rules, he doesn't need extra explanation. Certainly not as a "courtesy" to a "big streamer" so they don't get "upset". This was straight up whining.
@Caleb Imrie I like how some people think that using "It is a fucking game" statement suddenly makes all their bs arguments valid. Good job man, keep it up. It is a free service. Their time, their rules. Period.
exigeous, normally i like your vids, but in this case i can't support what you did. you deserved the banhammer and honestly they're nice to only ban you for 30 days. you need to put up an honest apology instead of this passive-aggressive quasi-apology/explanation/excuse. their rules are clear and they're there to help those truly in need. considering they do it for absolutely nothing in return, they don't owe you a thing and you are obliged to play by their rules. if you wanted to promote them, maybe contact them first and ask for permission. instead, you called them basically for fun, and they punished you for it. it's well deserved in my book. think of it this way: what do you think would happen IRL if you called the cops while filming to "promote" them?
Exigious does not need to apologize. A 30 day suspension was issued, the case is closed. Exigious did wrong with good intentions, they treated him like any other Cmdr. I don't like their cold way of doing this, but I understand. There is no need to ask for permission to record/promote them, they are not special/above the rules. You can record Gary371 you can record FuelRatJamie. I empathize with Exigious, I empathize with the fuel rats, however I cannot empathize with you. Sounds like you just want him to be their bitch, that they're the Elite overlords. They definitely do great things for the community and we should appreciate that but they're not all-holy gifts from god. They don't matter outside of Elite, we owe them nothing. It's them who are obliged to play by our rules. The same rules EVERYONE abides by. Take your god-tier opinion of them and shove them up your ass, don't expect anyone to go digging up there to join them. Exigious was frustrated but we see he knew in the end what happened. The case is closed.
@@skull1256 he didn't need fuel to arrive at the station, he had enough to reach a station along the route. He didn't have enough fuel to reach the destination but he hadn't run out when he asked for help so it was a false claim.
Dafydd Rees-Jones But the matter of this scenario didn’t need that kind of punishment. Absolutely pathetic! All he done was try to teach new cmdrs new things and perhaps show them how the fuelrats work. Yes he could of changed the way he done things, but the outcome of this is absolutely stupid.
I saw your call come in and I saw that it wasn't an emergency, so I knew that was breaking the rules, and pointed that out in rat-chat but everyone seemed chill with it and there were no other cases, so I thought all was fine. Wasn't expecting this to happen but I'm not surprised.
Firstly I'd to say I have enjoyed your content and that I have a number of your videos in a playlist as a quick reference that I return to often. Secondly I'm not a Fuel Rat and have not used the Fuel Rats. Having said that I do believe you were in the wrong in this case. 1, My understanding of the Fuel Rats is that they are a limited (Only by the mechanics of the game) Intergalactic Coast Guard. An Emergency Service. 2, You did say that you intended to have the Fuel Rats re-fuel you ALONG the way. Hence KNEW before under taking the trip that you would run out of fuel. 3, You appear to have told the streaming community of your intent to run out of fuel on propose. (I did not see the stream in question, I'm using want you present in this video.) 4, You EXPECTED to be treated differently from the rest of us Hoi Polloi, To get SPECIAL TREAT. You showed intent to have the Fuel Rats be your own personal KC-10 Extender. If you had done the same thing with the real world Coast Guard, 1, You would very probably would only know you were in the doghouse when the local police turned up to arrest you or you were served a court summons. 2, You would find yourself charged with wasting the Coast Guards time. Which equals a Bill for fuel, labour, court costs, a fine and possibly a loss of any piloting licence. 3, You may also be charged with "Reckless endangerment" and or "Criminal Negligence" 4, If you wanted to showcase the Real Coast Guard you'd have to supply them in advanced with an outline of what you wanted to do. I understand your pissed at getting a ban, I would be, But I think if your honest with yourself, Your more pissed that you got treated the same as everybody else. Best wishes to you Exigeous, and remember a tiara does not suit you, no matter how shining it is.
I love the direct, yet still smiling tone of this response! Exi is a good dude, and as you say, this was likely an ego bruised response to being 'no exception to the rules' . Ha, we all have an ego, I laugh at my own when it does stupid things. if he can accept it for what it is, make good on putting his hands up, with a little self deprecation for the lols, no harm done right?!
You know what is a boring subject? Ganking. Jumping unarmed ships and break their cargo holds to steal their cargo, or blowing them up. That is boring, or at least it is not fun for the person being abused.
Last paragraph says it all. If you were a rat yourself in the past, you should be familiar with rules and procedures. I believe thats why there was no conversation, no warnings, just straightforward ban. And I agree. Break the rule, no reasoning is necessary, go straight to punishment. How would it go? "Hey, you broke the rules, we have to ban you you now." "Oh no wait i did it because of this and that" "ah ok, good to know, youre still banned though because rules are rules".
@@xelyius5480 such a crucial one for sure. In fact, its kind of a nobrainer that you dont call the rats without reason. Even if it werent in the rules.
@@xelyius5480 You took your drivers test 3 years ago? Are you expected to remember to obey the rules of the road after 3 years? Hell no. Speed and you'll get off without punishment if you tell them it was to show of because of the CONTEXT and INTENT.
@@meoka2368 imagine talking about punishable laws in real life and thinking it's even remotely comparable to a player group in a video game. oop your stupid
This seems entirely fair and justified. You were in the wrong and this video comes across as a veiled whine about your ban. I like your content, this isn't your normal standard.
@@sam93931 I didn't say he was whining. I said it comes across as a veiled whine. It's essentially complaining about their rules being enforced under the guise of understanding. I do think that the rule they're enforcing needs a review as its unlikely their IRC is so busy that they need it clear for 'emergencies' at all times. However he knows the rules and they're clear on the site. Doesn't matter that he's a popular ED youtuber. It doesn't mean he can expect special treatment. Therefore the ban is what it is and should have been expected.
agreed, it was 100% a veiled whine. the way he said he was *apparently* in the wrong (or something like that) says it all, and really rubbed me the wrong way
@@seraphik Agreed, I'm a new pilot and common sense would tell pretty much anyone that this would be an abuse of their time. I like the content here enough to subscribe, but I like what the Rats did more -- they showed that big names deserve zero more entitlement than the rest of us. Good admins with rules in place don't argue them with people that break them.
@@Taphosthewarlock "... its unlikely their IRC is so busy that they need it clear for 'emergencies' at all times..." The thing about cases is that they like to come in in bursts. Earlier today (on a Tuesday of all days) there was 12-15 active rescues going on at once. Diverting resources and attention isn't good. The police /probably/ aren't busy when you call them, but while they're responding to your call someone else might get hurt. Same thing. Don't abuse emergency services, especially when they're free volunteers.
Commander, I have to side with the rats on this one. I would consider pre-arranging this a given, considering your intent. Having said that, I would love for you to arrange with them a video of the refuel procedure, once the ban is lifted. I love your videos and have learned much.
I always travel with a fuel scoop on every ship. This leads me to believe that the fuel rats were in the right but took the punishment too far. Even a warning or like a 7-Day ban would have been more but a whole month?
@@Canadian_Ale 30 days is nothing. Its not like experienced players run out of fuel all the time. This ban in reality is not even a punishment as long as he pays attention.
The fuel rats have a strict regimen of selecting rats, training them, keeping check of whats happening and every sngle case they do. Every case is filed for every customer and credited to the one actually doing the refueling. As there is little systemic support by elite itself this is neccessary to keep this a fair service for everyone that keeps a positive feedback from the community. Thus also the rules of how a rescue goes is very strict. Now what I don't know is how many active rats there is atm it could be that they are running low since elite had a dip in players in general, and so usually cases can pile up fast especially in "prime time" thus rats losing valuable time being called falsely, you wouldnt also call the fire brigade to extinguish your cigarette. The difference there is the rats do that all for the love of it and arent getting any payout (and are proud in that). So yes those rules are there to protect what the rats do, and the customers that actually need it, and are already stressed out when they contact the rats in the first place. I get you had no ill intent, but it was a bit naive none the less and i completely get the reaction, that i think is even adequate.
@@Rik079 The lates statistics from the horses mouth: On average over the last years those (approximately) 10 rats made 60 rescues per day. Yes, there are many more ratis, but not everyone is on standby at all times. Even if they are doing other business (and some are not, some are actually at a neutron star with a boosted FSD ready to do) they are giving up the cargo space for those fuel limpets and the controller. On top of this, it is not just _one_ rat involved, even a simple rescue will also involve a dispatcher. These are all people paying to volunteer their time. Disrespecting there commitment is despicable.
@@57thorns I should point out that I'm a fuel rat myself, and I have been for a long time. I do not see how that comment was disrespectful to other rats, I'm merely stating facts from experience, and even those facts aren't disrespectful in any way :D
@@Rik079 I saw no disrespect in your comment, the topic of this video however is disrespecting the fuel rats. I merely added some statistics to show support for the decision to put exigious in his place.
Intentions, context and closed-door discussions are irrelevant. Harsh as it may sound, their decision is the only possible one. Besides, you wanted to show off their service, right? Good: this gives THEM a chance to show off what happens if someone disrespect their rules.
I mean, you violated their policy. And you even admit to being wrong ( 4:52 ). They have to remain fair and impartial, so what kind of message would it send to the community if they just give special treatment to certain people? Basically you're asking for special treatment because you're a "celebrity" in the community, which is pretty shitty. You're no different than anyone else, bud. And if you "don't care" about being banned, then why even make the video? This is really in poor taste. I really don't even believe this warranted a video and kinda seems like you're just crying about it.
Im actually speechless at this. Ive been watching your videos as they are some of the best content available for Elite for a long time. Recently came back from a break and then came across this. You were in the wrong, no two ways about it. No issue with your intent, but you should have just apologised and admitted you were in the wrong. Very disappointing.
HVAC repairman: It was no problem working on your air conditioner. I'd do it again because I love it so much! Accounts Receivable: I'm about to end this man's whole career.
Rats were in the right. Since you were able to get fuel and still called them. Perhaps giving them a heads up and the ability to consider your idea, would have helped for a planned promotion. No special consideration for successful TH-camrs. Entitlement is not a good look. Even when you are the best at making Elite videos.
i was in my car and streaming driving process live , then i feel headache so i decided to call ambulance to show my viewer how it works and how great medics are. I could drive to the nearest hospital with easy but this was for my viewers on educational purpose of course . Then i receive 30 days ban for calling ambulance, without warning. Exigeous, im very like your streams, your tutorials and i`m very appreciate for all what you are doing for community. But in this situation you are wrong. o7
@@AussieArcade because it was in open, and he ask players for help having wingman's around. To clarify - I do not blame him, I think that he is wrong, this is my personal opinion
@@noisyboyuk fuel rats ARE doing other things. They drop what they are doing to help improve the game experience for other people, but that isn't exclusively what they do...
You should have used it as a tutorial video that the misuse has consequences. While if it just kinda happened that way and you ended up needing them I'd be with you but when you decided your plan was to call them you were in the wrong. That is like setting your house on fire to show how the fire department works (as an extreme example.) There are willing to work with community members if you talked to them first. It is completely fair that when you misused their service that banned you from it.
I agree with a vast number of the comments here. Rather than wasting their time, it would’ve been better to pre arrange a demonstration - think fire services or police doing days at schools to raise awareness and such. Whats been done here is the equivalent of a false call, good intentions or not. Once the ban wears off, great, back to business and perhaps down the line you can organise something but hopefully you learn from mistakes.
Unfortunately, people who play a video game and decide to join a certain community within that game is not nearly the same as real life firemen or policemen protecting people's lives. At the end of the day, no one is going to care about this and forget about it the next day.
@Abigail Slaughter I didn't "search" for a reason to dismiss anything nor was I saying your criticism wasn't valid. I was merely making a statement that remains true even now. Take it or leave it. It matters not to me.
Earlier today I got myself into a situation where I was almost too late to realise that I didn't have enough fuel to get to my destination. By the time I realised though, I was 18 fuel efficient jumps away from the nearest station with refuelling facilities. I limped into the station with the vapours in the tank. I considered calling the rats, but did my best to avoid having to call them. Thankfully I didn't need them this time, but I'm grateful that they will be there for me if I do need them. The fuel rats are heroes to people who need them, and I wouldn't even think of calling them out for a situation I couldn't get myself out of.
Listen to yourself, dude. The fuel rats are taking time out of their IRL days to improve people's experiences with a game they love, and you called them knowing full well that you could have done without them. You wasted their time, and now you're complaining about a temporary ban? The fuel rats are a privilege, not a right, and certainly not a toy. Have some humility.
So you knowingly brake the fule rats rules. And then get pissed of because they ban you? 🤦🏻♂️ If you were going to promote fuel rats during your stream. Then why not ask before if it is ok to brake the rules that time??
yeeeee you deserved it m8. After all, it's only 30 days, they clearly want to do business with you and interact with you in the future, but also stick to their rules. That's how they work
I think they are trying to show EVERYONE who views your stream./video about calling them falsely that there will be serious consequences. They are highlighting something in the process you didnt. They simply showed the completing of the process if done maliciously.
This. We've had Village Idiot griefers who've sent them fake emergency SAR beacons of being stranded in Open. Only to have their griefer buddies lie in wait in adjacent systems. So they can drop in and gank the crap out of the non combat build FR who shows up. THAT sort of griefer tomfuckery earned a player a permaban from the game by FDev a while back.
@@simsdiver5201 Nice to hear that FDec actually acted on behalf of the Fuel Rats. Their original policy of treating everyone the same regardless of circumstances was bound to be abused, I will settle for fairly every day of the week. And this no service for Karen Exigeous for 30 days was quite fair. Has anyone ever called the Fuel Rats twice in 30 days?
The station closest to where I mine i swap out fsd booster and fuel scoop for two collector limpets. That way i still have longer jump and fuel scoop for when I'm done.
I'd like to remind everyone that Fuel Rats do not have "leadership". There are operators and moderators as well as tech-rats and seers, all of which have very specific tasks, none of which are to "lead". There is no "top" in Fuel Rats organisational structure. The rules are followed by everyone and enforced without prejudice or exceptions. As an anarchic commune designed to be as fluid in numbers as possible, not relaying on same people to be constant, Fuel Rats rules were designed to be that way. It is unfortunate that CMDR Exigeous fell under the rules discussed here, but rules are rules. I had seen and even refuelled a few streamers, who hadn't even needed the fuel, just calling us on stream to show us off. It was years ago, and at the time they faced no concequences at all. In fact, one of those videos is still attracting quite a few clients for us, as it is still the top search-result on "run out of fuel in ED" in Russian language... In that sence I do see why this video was made. On the other hand, I myself had faced off and struggled against certain Fuel Rats rules in the past and spent months in discussions regarding them. In the end, all for nought. Fuel Rats rules are not flexible. For better or worse - that is indeed the case and rules are rules. But that is not because of some "leadership". There isn't such.
I agree with you here but am forced to be pedantic for a moment. The group can't be anarchic *and* have rules... "Anarchic" adjective "with no controlling rules or principles to give order." I know as a younger guy I loved the idea of Anarchy because when we are young we *all* believe we are the strong ones. Then when you get older you realize anarchy is actually pretty lame. Sure, rules are lame too, their just *less* lame then anarchy. Best case scenario is you as an all powerful omnipotent dictator, but clearly that's only helpful for whoever is the dictator (and possibly his friends depending on how nice he is, at least in the beginning). Regardless, I agree with the FRs here. But It's never fun being called out, especially when you think your doing something "good", so I feel for Ex here as well. But of course plenty of terrible things have happened under the umbrella of "good" so, rules..
@@bp968 Pretty sure the forerats wenth with the more broad definition of: Anarchy is the state of a society being freely constituted without authorities or a governing body. It may also refer to a society or group of people that totally rejects a set hierarchy. and Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that rejects all involuntary, coercive forms of hierarchy.
@@LeeNTien "rules are followed and enforced" "anarchic" "commune". Again, not anarchy if it has rules and the ability to enforce them. But not relevant, since by your description it really sounds like its community governed by a collective. Or a "complete democracy" which might actually be functional in an organisation like that since those "governed" are not really capable of voting so they can't vote themselves whatever they want. What you describe isn't far from what many of the founding fathers of the US wanted and why many opposed the idea of the office of the president. Without the president it was a collection of representatives from each state, some for the peoples interests (Congress) and some for the states interest (the Senate). And all with essentially equal power (since the senators were 2 per state and elected by the state level representatives themselves). Man it really got broken didn't it?
@@bp968 There's the philosophical/original meaning of anarchy, which is simply the purest form of democracy by having no unjustified hierarchy, and which is basically the smallest unit of human organization (i.e. you and your friends, or significant other ideally); and there's the pop culture/propaganda meaning of anarchy, which is a synonym with chaos. The fuel rats are closer to the former. Anarchy doesn't mean no rules, it means no hierarchy.
Downvoted because you were entirely in the wrong and you showed no contrition for that. Also, you gave your viewers the impression that they could call the Rats for similar situations when they should not. You weren't permabanned, you were just temporarily banned for reasons that you already knew about. You need to take responsibility for your actions and apologise for your behaviour in all this.
3:30 Exigeious: did you give them warning? Exigeious: did you have any discussion with them before breaking the rules? Exigeious: did you at all entertain the notion of involving them at any point of pre-planning this trip? No? Then why the hell would you expect them to give you the time of day when you didn't give them it in the first place. Punishment is deserved and justly served. Edit: in fact with the attempt at publicly undermining fuel rats and an effort to shame them into recinding the ban, I'd be in favour of an extension of said ban.
Oh- I don't think he was undermining them- he just disagrees with their decision. I'm sure after reading all these comments, he understands why they did what they did.
Never used the fuel rats before but it concerns me that if I ever do need them and I make a mistake following the rules, I could be punished as harshly. Grace and kindness goes a long way when given to those without ill-intent.
@@semirdzhyan It's one thing to break a rule without knowing - it happens. It's another thing entirely to break a rule, knowing full well that you broke it. Exigeuous was a fuel rat and was (or at least should have been) intimately familiar with the ToS.
The right way to do this would've been to ask for a drill, or asking for an example, I'm sure they would've been overjoyed to demonstrate if you had done it through the correct channels
I agree the the Rats, as it could be seen as a promotion of false cases to increase cargo capacity/profits, especially in lower tier ships/new players. Also its only a 30 day ban, right? You really shouldn't be using the rats more than like once a year, if that. If you are, your not learning from you mistakes.
yeah i still dont appreciate you bullying D2EA about the split mining video. Your'e not the decisive ruler of elite dangerous or the controller of content people put out. you getting banned from the fuel rats is none of our business but here you are, trying to save face.
To be honest I kinda get both sides. While a ban without prior contact may be a quite drastic and "unprofessional" consequence, its just a 30 day ban. I have played Elite for years without ever needing to contact them, but the mere fact that they even exist and do this on a voluntary basis is pretty great. So if they offer a service for free, you have to play by their rules. And just imagine the following situation: You run out of fuel outside the bubble after a long exploration journey and your life support is slowly but surely ticking away. After being rescued (or not) you get to see a stream where someone in one of the most expensive and biggest trading ships is requesting rats just to get that little bit more profit out of his mining session. To be clear: I do love your channel and expecially admire all the hard work you put into it!!! But as a non active Elite Player I can totally understand both sides of the argument. And as you said: 30 Days and its already forgotten. Fly Safe Cmdr! o7
First off, I do enjoy your channel. I started ED a few months ago & I'm still learning. I have to agree with the Fuel Rats on this one. Though I agree your intention WASN"T malicious or to show off in any way, you still called them when they could have used their time & resources to someone who is truly in need of their services. You could have reached out to them ahead of time before the Tuesday stream. If I asked anyone of my friends or family to help me out when it wasn't needed or necessary, they would be pissed. End of discussion. If I notified them prior of my reasons/need for their help, it would be a different story if they have the time for me. I have made similar mistakes in my life & had to step back, look at the situation & learn from my errors. Take this a life lesson, learn from it and move forward.
You might have caused another, more needy, Commander’s demise with your frivolous request for fuel. They’re there as a last resort, not an inflight en-route refueling service. They take their rescue service very serious. I used them for the first time in Colonia a few weeks ago and was amazed by the speed they got someone to me. Gave me the info spiel on how to set my navigation up so it wouldn’t happen again. The ban was 100% justified. If they hadn’t done it every Tom, Dick and Susie space cadet is going to do the same thing. You meant well but the highway to hell is paved with good intentions.😁 Keep it up, love your channel.
I gotta say, Exigeous...while I enjoy your content, and I think your tutorials are some of the most immensely helpful resources in this community, I have to disagree with how you handled this. I think your response here seems more about your ego than anything else. The Rats provide a service of their time and energy in-game for nothing in return. Obviously, their leadership needs to protect them from being exploited by content creators for content generation, and this seems like their concern here. I think it's an understandable one. You are one of the biggest content creators in this community. You broke their rules here, and rather than just say "Sorry, I should have handled this differently.", accept their response, and move on you have used your platform to call them out for how they have treated you. I think that's pretty unfair on your part and again seems pretty ego-driven. You think this wasn't a big deal, and that the response was overblown. Put yourself in their shoes. They don't want everyone with a TH-cam channel (or someone who thinks they have a TH-cam channel) calling the Rats for content generation. That seems like a legitimate concern, and they decided to send a message here. They even suggested in their note that you used to be a Rat and should have known better, but that wasn't addressed at all in your video. Anyway, I would just hope you have a bit more openness in the future to other people's perspectives other than your own in the future. I would like to keep supporting your content, and things like this reflect poorly on you.
While I can agree with your disputing the exact charge laid out, poor planning on your part is still not an emergency for the rats, and as a resource-limited player group who often helps people minutes away from running out of O2, they can't be expected to have the spare resources for leniency.
You got a slap on the wrist for breaking their rules. I don’t think an impermanent ban is an excessive reaction. I also think it’s a little hot headed to interpret this as happening without considering context. As indicated in their message, they knew why you called them and considered it an inappropriate way to do such a thing. As something like emergency responders, I think the way to consider this is to consider the real-life equivalent: calling an ambulance frivolously in order to demonstrate how great ambulances are. Regardless of intent, if an on-duty emergency medical service person is called away from their work for a surprise publicity event, that potentially puts others at risk of delayed support from the emergency services, in the worst case resulting in disaster. While this is a game and the consequences need not be as harsh as they would be in real life, I’d say that they weren’t. There was no public statement that you represent some kind of larger issue, no attack on your right to or ability to play the game, just a rescinding of services that are provided by volunteers in the first place. While immediately jumping to punishment rather than issuing warning may also seem harsh, I would also like to not that for a player-based volunteer organization like the Fuel Rats to take a zero-tolerance stance like this sends a clear message to potential griefers that no tomfoolery will be accepted from abusers of their services. I’m sure, while still upsetting and even harsh, you can perhaps see why the volunteers running the Fuel Rats would consider this a fair response.
Might feel like a mildly heavy handed reaction - but they would have been more than willing to have worked with you to set up a rescue and run it if you'd asked them in advance (they've done this before). If they didn't do anything they could easily end up with loads of people staging rescues and that could overwhelm their ability to actually rescue people.
Exigeous you got exactly what you deserved. The fuel rats offer their services as a voluntary act. Those who came to your aid as an "emergency" dropped what ever they were doing to come help. You wasted their time. You got banned. Just because you're a "famous" TH-camr the rules don't apply to you? I have to say Exigeous the quality of your "tutorials" as really dropped of late.
You put the message in the video, apparently they DID consider the context. The punishment was not "severe" at all. I think you should have known better.
Ive never called the Rats.....but i've come VERY close to doing exactly the same thing as Exigeous before. I suppose you could call it 'Preemptive Rat calling'. But it seemed a little harsh to do - "Hey, I'm not out of fuel, but I'm not carrying a scoop either, so if you could give up your time to help me be more efficient, that would be great!" ....its a bit of a dick move. The answer (as others have said) is to talk to the rats AHEAD of time and let them know the context. ....either that, or fit a scoop, or (do what i did) waste a few minutes docking purely to refuel on the way.....its the unwritten rule! lol o7
While it is written for the "Karens" of the world, the rest of use has that rule "unwritten". No need to spell it out. When my explorer come down to half tank in a field of T stars, I make very sure that the next stop is scoopable. Not only does it save me time and embarrasement, it does not waste precious resources for real emergencies. Like that one time I eventually _will_ mess up (most likely doing a semi blind neutron star jump into a Taurus mine field).
"no context considered, no warning given, no discussion had" is also an excellent way to describe what you did. if you expected them to provide you any of that, you should have given them that same courtesy beforehand.
Loving it. We'll said commander
@@BluFlame2000 *Well
We'll is different because it means "We will"
No offense, just correcting you so you don't make the same mistake again.
@@kibukaj2956 my apologies friend, as my phones auto cum rekt will likely do it again, I'm afraid we've be loving it... forever
@@kibukaj2956it's just an Auto correct thing bro
Sorry Exigeous but you are in the wrong here my dude, you did violate the policy that they have put in place to deter this kind of behavior to begin with. Frankly a 30 day ban is not a big deal its like getting community service as a punishment irl and it would appear they took your intent into account as well by giving you this slap on the wrist, but at the same time they have to enforce their own rules regardless of the individual at fault if they did not players would loose trust in them and their reputation for good & fair conduct.
This upload of yours here only reinforces why they have those rules.
As an active rat of several years, I'm gonna be biased here.
However, in my opinion, you were in the wrong. I understand your plea for considering the context, but the fact of the matter is that the context dosen't "refund" the time and effort spent on saving you, and (hopefully not) depriving other people who are in greater need of our time. In reality the time it took to join the fuelrats chat as a client is exactly the same amount of time it'd have taken you to join the ratchat (where we just talk, and don't use it for active cases) and ask if someone had the free time for a demo.
Lastly, while I do believe you entirely that it wasn't malicious, rules have to be upheld to be effective, and we can't let the anyone with some profile come in and demand our time on their schedule, and then expect to have the rules bend on top of that. That'll leave us open to a lot of disruptions that could end up costing the lives of players who can't bounce back from death as easily as a veteran player.
If it "costs the lives of players who can't bounce back from death" then revoke the relevant dispatcher's privileges - they clearly don't know how to ask a case to log out when workload rises or a rat is taking extra time.
@@geretstarseeker453 Absolutely not and you missed my point.
First off, we do lose clients, due to language barriers, errors, miscommunication and instancing, it's a shame, but the more cases active simultaneously, the more likely it is to happen. And even then, having all hands on deck for a single case, can improve odds immensely, simply by having people who can speak the native language, or know the platform better. If we get people who don't need rescues start calling in in cases such as these, resources depletes, and people die more often, that's just a fact of life.
My point wasn't that Exigeous is directly responsible for a single death, but if he showcases this as a viable strategy to inch out another million or two from a multi-million run, he is setting a precedent that'll put a bigger,. unnecessary stress on our service, which will, inevitably lead to more deaths, regardless of the performance of dispatch.
To me in his shoes i would just take that ban. For transparency it does deserve to be stated he broke the rules, as to encourage players to follow procedure, but nothing malicious was done, it was a great teaching opportunity and he is a veteran player, If he needs it again in less then 30 days he should fix how he plays for making rookie mistakes like that but he is good enough and probably rich enough to afford that mistake to just cut his lose and try again. Honostly I don’t hold it against either for this just take the ban and roll with it is all he should do from here but good to mention it so others don’t get banned for same mistake
So where's the rules stated at on the site exactly, I went to look and see yesterday, to see if there was a clearly defined statement in the tos, I read it all the way through and perhaps I missed something, but I did not see it there, and let's forgo the common sense argument, as not everyone's common sense is the same. I've also considered that perhaps there's an agreement or additional terms that only show up when making a request for service?
@@arkman117 It falls under this section:
"Do not deliberately run out of fuel in order to cause a rescue. Distracting dispatch and taking up valuable resources that could be used to rescue actual clients may lead to mistakes and indirectly kill clients, this is taken very seriously. If you want to arrange training exercises the drill channels are available for your use at any time."
"I wish no harrassment on the rats" buddy your whole damn comment section is you getting destroyed lmao
With all due respect, you were also streaming the IRC (chat window), and that definitely is against their ToS
UncappingBadger This is false. As Exegious was a registered Rat, different rules applied to him. Rat streaming rules state that IRC is not to be streamed/recorded under any circumstance whatsoever. It also set a precedent for others to follow in his footsteps and attempt to make similar “rescue” requests.
@UncappingBadger The only time I've seen it done the entirety of the exercise was handled in a secondary channel, explicitly for the purpose of protecting real cases...
Your main sin was flying without a fuel scoop
that 128 extra cargo tho.
There are a large number of stations close to Borann. If one really wants to mine with those extra limpets and cargo, a perfectly viable strategy is to leave a fuel scoop and FSD booster lying around one of those stations. Once done mining, pop into the station and switch out the collectors for the scoop and FSD booster. 5 minutes extra tops (and that is assuming you cannot reach your sell station without them).
@@blemat bingo. I always do this, the only case where I could understand someone not doing that is not having Horizons and flying in a large ship, as the only station with large pads in Borann is a planetary one.
But then again this falls flat since there's plenty of nearby systems with fitting station
Lorenzo Bidinotto I would actually suggest a station out of Borann, preferably close to the arrival star. It will save you climbing out of the gravity well in supercruise. Just high wake, drop into the station, and you are good to go.
@@blemat Personally if i'm in a large ship i find it less of a hassle to dock and depart from planetary bases than starports. Also Brothers Installation is right next to the mining spot as well so there's less time wasted.
Still, i think the difference would be minimal anyway. Comes down to preference.
As someone who used to run an Arma clan if you want to run an online community you need to have a zero tolerance policy to breaking the rules. If you make exceptions then people no longer respect them and enforcing them in future becomes far harder. If they had made an exception for a guy who wanted to show them off to his stream viewers then people would cry of favouritism to high profile members of the community and/or former members of the fuel rats. I don't think a lot of the people calling them too strict understand how important adherence to the rules is too keeping an online group stable and drama free.
The Fuel Rats were 100% in the right to give you a temporary ban. In fact they probably saw it as a slap on the wrist considering you never use their services. If you wanted to do this kind of thing you should have run it by them as they stated in the email. Intent doesn't matter, you broke the rules, you got punished, they're not required to have a negotiation with you when its that cut and dry.
All in all my respect for the Fuel Rats has grown from this. Too many groups would bend over backwards to accommodate high profile members of a community even if it means throwing out the rule book everyone else is expected to adhere to.
My advise, put this behind you Exiguous and don't go further with this. Whilst you broke the rules you weren't malicious in it and people recognise that. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.
This. If you have rules then you need to enforce them uniformly and above all *impartially*.
@Elite Gamegerous Shut the fuck up.
Exactly, having been part of the leadership of many online communities I can absolutely confirm this, well said!
When you keep any rules too strict you lose what it is to be human, create misery and mistrust for all, and discard the concept of fun. This episode has shown the true face of the fuel rat management (the worker rats were and are awesome) and that is no molehill. The true ugly side of the rat 'top brass' is FAR sadder to me than exigeous' little exuberant infraction.
100% disagree with you. Did to the fact that he had been a fuel rat previously they should of spoken to him and asked for explanation at the very least to his actions. Many people have no idea how to go about calling on them and this stream no doubt aided a handful of commanders in this process.
You decided to "use the rats as a fuel scoop"; to basically avoid docking at a station along the way to refuel, knowing full well you didn't have a scoop (which was a bad decision) and not enough fuel to make it all the way to the sell point. That's not what the rats are for. Being such a high profile player and streaming the event, it sends the message to your followers that this is an ok thing to do and it's not, so I would imagine that the admins decided to apply the punishment to send an equally strong message that this is not ok.
Indeed. Esp as given it was on a stream, it's putting the refuellers at risk of being ganked by others watching the stream; hence the small disposable ships!
Yeah I can get behind that sentiment.
It's like calling the fire department because your cats in a tree.
@Elite Gamegerous Well OBVIOUSLY he didn't knowingly violate the rules. He's not that kind of guy. I never said he did either, so I don't think your "Nope" / "that's ridiculous" is called for, but whatever.
@Elite Gamegerous yeah, reading is hard hey. Try again. Perhaps you will be able to both read AND comprehend.... with practice. Good luck ;)
@@daemonxblaze Let's not forget this is just a game and it's supposed to be fun not bureaucratic and harsh. With the fire department you can't tell the caller to log out into the main menu while the firefighters are on their way, you can with the rats. At worst another cmdr would have been kept waiting 5 mins more.
"No context would be considered"
Context is in the message. It looks like they understood the context, and would have preferred you arrange a demonstration ahead of time, instead of using live resources that might have been needed elsewhere. 30 days is a wrist slap.
That is like the first thing that came to my mind when he said that. Glad to see we think alike the fuel rats and I. Still I am not one of them nor do i wish to be. Elite Dangerous is to huge to be able to reach all over with the ships I have with fuel to spare to give to others to refuel them.
Exactly Jeremy P.
A better title would be “Don’t ever break Fuel Rats rules or this will happen”
or: "Fuel Rats seem to apply their rules equally to 'famous streamers' looking to give them 'exposure' as to common folk; my gosh"
yeh, it's a bit click-baity isn't it... a TEMPORARY ban of 30 days is _nuthin!_ ....but doesn't sound as 'cool' and 'must see' as "Fuel Rats gave me a Temporary Ban!"
or the fuelrats are OTT self important, arrogant shits who should be avoided.
@@DAGATHire OR - a player who claims to be as expertly experienced in the game as Exigeous should know how to properly jump without a fuel scoop, and also not falsely call the Fuel Rats just because he wants to look cool by having them called out.
It would be the same as calling the Fire Department because you wanted to show how quickly they responded, then when they arrived and there was no fire, you got fined, then complained about how you just wanted to "show off their services"
@@firehawk894 its not the same as the fire service mate. it's really just NOT. i mean ffs. its a computer game. lets not equate PLAYING a game to real life time wasting of essential emergency services. It's utterly ridiculous.
From your twitch stream: You were mining with friends and one of them was an off-duty fuel rat. You had plenty of fuel at the time, but you couldn't be bothered setting the filter to either government or economy or looking up EDDB(for your closest station to refuel at, which you were well within reach of). When you finished plotting your route, you realized that you weren't going to make it to your SELL station and THEN called the fuel rats and asked them to meet you at the given system you were going to run out of fuel at. Your two assigned rats made it to your given system before you and you had them waiting a good bit, WHILE you were fussing around, trying to log in to your fuel rat account with the IRC commands. For my thoughts: It sounds like you're trying to butter up your viewers with sympathy with a half-baked story that isn't completely true, for that I've lost respect for you. I don't think you need any explanation since you are a fuel rat and you should already know their rules and ToS. You were also told what you were doing was wrong. It's been over a month and the best thing to do is apologize to your viewers and the fuel rats and move on.
Agreed
Umm.. I'm kinda new to his channel... Take it you both are also fuel rats that where there the night this happened or are you speaking from another word of mouth that was there?
You a bitch. Fuel rats are bitches.
@@hyperretroactivehyperretro5992 uhuh
@@hyperretroactivehyperretro5992 You’ll be singing a different tune to them when your sorry ass needs fuel.
This is what happens then you think you are to big to follow simple rules. Content creators are not exempt from rules that we are ALL expected to follow.
Eddy G
Not only did he try to take advantage of the fuel rats in-game, he's doing it off-game, too. Baited them to get a video with increased views and lots of comments. Sneaky scheme, imo.
Lol, hush. I bet money you didn’t know that was a rule either
@@kevinweaver9312 And you would have lost the bet. I have seen the fuel rats web page (as a result of a stream I watched) and read their rules.
@@kevinweaver9312 bruh its common sense. Don't go causing a fuss if you don't need to.
They’re just a fucking group of dudes, not god.
Y’all go suck em off some more
30 day ban is nothing more than a slap on the wrist.
It's appropriate.
i think of it as calling 911 to schedule them ahead of time before u go to a restaurant and eat something your allergic too
@@twobyfor9556 It's more like calling 911 instead of calling the non emergency police line and asking for a demonstration to be scheduled for educational purposes. 911 is the emergency line. Calling when it's anything other than an emergency is a crime.
Also, if your demonstration is to go to a restaurant and eat something you know you're allergic to, that's not a demonstration of 911. That's a demonstration of your stupidity.
lol @ these 2 comparing calling for fuel rat assistance in a game to calling 911 in real life. I can see it being like calling a friend or neighbor for help if your low on gas in real life and not sure if you're going to make it to the gas station, but 911? Come on... way over dramatic. The messed up part would be your friend no longer being your friend over it. Yea, it's just like that.
@@Scott283 Except 'calling your friend or neighbour' implies you know them and they're willing to help you out. The fuel rats don't know us. And they help anyway. That sounds a hell of a lot more like an emergency service (911) than a friend or a neighbour helping you out.
@@twobyfor9556 bro its a fucking game jesus christ
I hate to say it dude, but you're talking like an "influencer" who had to actually /pay/ for something. Take your licks and learn from the experience.
I'll give my opinion from the context of a rat and use today as an example.
Today we had: 3 code red (oxygen running out) calls and 4 regular calls at the same time. We had immense difficulties managing enough rats to rescue everyone. Putting in a call for this trivial of a reason could be the cause for someone losing their ship, and if a new player or severe enough loss, it will make them not want to play the game.
Dont break rules and if you dont need fuel but want to show off rats, give them a heads up.
Hold on, player's that have run out of fuel are advised to leave the game and wait for instructions. So how are they going to lose anything? And Exigeous, from his video, did legitimately run out of fuel so did not break any of the rules set by the FR. At the end of the day, it's a game. No real lives will be lost! And should a player lose their ship/assets because an RC couldnt reach them, well, isn't that their fault in the first place?
@@rapturas Fact's surprised this is a relatively newer comment, but as far as I can tell, that is indeed what you are informed to do, is log out to avoid some critical error. If it is indeed some form of priority based reason, then again, who assessed Ex's issue (as indicated by this poster comment "trivial") to be high priority? Seems like the error would have been on that of the rats who aided Ex. Should have to read terms of service when the concept is simple, run out of fuel, call the rats, get fuel... shouldn't be this damn complex, it's a game, 30 day suspension? idiotic, and they wouldn't have knew the reason should their not have been a video on it.
I also love how this post comes off as matter of fact but then drifts into the realm of possibilities... "we had x y and x" and then ended with "if's" and "maybe's" and "possible" did the 7 people plus Ex all get serviced that day? Yes? then it's a mute point... did someone at that time get less of a priority than needed? ending up losing their ship, cargo, and end up quitting? no? then it's foolish hyperbole.
They only have people log out in certain circumstances. I've been rescued by the rats a number of times. Enough that I know the procedure.
Name, system location, approximate location in system. Turn off all modules to conserve fuel. They'll ask you if you have the life support countdown. If you do typically they have you log out to preserve the time so that they're in system when you log on. This can matter if you're far enough away they won't get there before the timer runs down.
They will then send someone to fuel you. The commander that come is always incredibly nice, will take the time to walk you through how to plot routes based on fuel, how to use a fuel scoop, answer any questions you have, and then stay in system with you until you're safely on your way.
The rats are some of the coolest people you'll ever meet in video games. They are beloved to the ED community. So much so if you even try to mess with them entire clans will hunt you down and grief you as punishment. They use their free time to help new and experienced players out of rough spots, all for free. They have rules and those rules should be followed. Exceptions shouldn't be made.
@@FirstBornConservative The fact that he used the service against their TOS is more than enough to warrant a suspension. He used them as a pit stop rather than their intended use as an in-game emergency service. If he wanted to showcase the rats he should have communicated with them ahead of time, instead of "lol well I don't have a scoop and I don't want to stop at a station". The fact that it's a game doesn't really matter when you're promoting a way to abuse a system and waste people's time.
Sounds like you thought you were the exception to the rules "cos streamer". As so many others have said, you're in the wrong and should be humbled. Their reaction was totally appropriate, they were following their rules as you should have been.
It makes perfect sense , you had a station with a large landing pad near enough. Your request could have ended in the player death of another player who needed help in an actual emergency. That is probably what would provoke such a reaction.
but according to the Fuel Rats themselves they have teams of players stationed around the 'verse, I agree that he was in the wrong for calling them, but to ban him for illegal use of a free service when there are plenty of others stationed to help anyone in need. Kind of kills the immersion or need for a group like them.
@@ferretmwalli8886 They are free to ignore him forever. You have no right to impose yourself on a free service.
@@ferretmwalli8886 We aren't an unlimited resource. We have lives, schedules, things to do. We aren't always free. There may be fifty rats in the IRC at any given time, yet only 5 or 6 of us are on active standby, covering PC, Xbox, and Playstation. Yeah, we've got CMDRs all over the galaxy, but that doesn't mean we're available to take clients at every given moment. At the heart of it all, we're just people. The fact that the Fuel Rats have gotten their reliability to the point where people take us for granted is incredible, in a good way.
its a videogame though, nobody is actually dieing.
You basically called 911 to ask for a cop to speak at your school's career day, so I'd say the ban was justified.
did you even watch the video? He said he didnt have enough fuel to get to the station
@@pvppro5036 To the station he wanted to reach to sell his haul, not "a station to refuel". I do get the confusion tho
@@pvppro5036 I was in a similar position the other day. In my fuel scoop-less Type 9. I plotted a route that was too far for my ship. Instead of calling the Fuel Rats I took a detour and docked at a station halfway to my destination to refuel. This is what he should have and could have done.
Yea... Accept... Its just a game
@@George-je1fs learn the difference between except and accept. Also that is just called a real life example.
I suspect that their intent (because of the many people who watch Exigeous' channel) was that they wanted to discourage OTHERS from doing what CMDR Exigeous did. - namely, call on the Rats without being in genuine need. Lets hope they respond and we can know their reasons.
Quizengine I agree, I don't think that they shouldn't have banned him, but the fact that they didn't even address it with him is just cowardly.
In my opinion that's pretty obvious. Some downside needs to exist for unnecessary use. Especially when it's that extraordinarily public. It's just a token 30 days. Please everyone, let's not come down too hard on the rats. They provide a free service here. They are the closest thing to a charity organization that you'll find in a video game.
Even a Charity can make mistakes - 30 days is no slap on the wrist. It also raises a lot of potential bad publicity for the rats.
You're right, it's no slap on the wrist. It's less than a slap on the wrist really. All you need is 1 friend who can afford fuel limpets to get a refuel. Somehow I'm doubting Exigeous is lacking in friends :)
Douglas Fox I don't disagree in spirit, but that 30 days is a real 30 days, not a token one, and I don't disagree that he should have been banned, but given that they KNEW the intent, not communicating was cowardly. period. The least they could do was send him a "we can't make exceptions because we don't want streamers making this a habit" message. And giving away free stuff doesn't make you immune to criticism.
Being made an example of is a very tough pill to swallow.
im going to force you to swallow something else in a second.
Dude, it's a suspension.. for breaking the rules. You're reaction is as if they permanently banned you.
They even explained in the email that they understand your position, but make it very clear with the suspension that you are not above the rules.
This whole video explains how you are a gift to the community and how Fuel Rats should give you some special treatment.
It's a showcase of how salty you are..
It basically shows how toxic Exigeous is.
Time to show myself out before i get too upset.
No, he's noting that their customer service response needs improvement. The unilateral nature of the suspension, without discussion with the Customer, shows an arrogance that needs to be addressed.
Given that I am seeing everything third hand, I cannot be positive, but it seems to me that the Fuel Rats, who have a PROCESS, either didn't follow it, or need to update it. He asked (which is all he Can do), they responded; that puts the onus on them. I'll even point out that, in spite of an incredibly condescending attitude, E protected their privacy.
@@Chrystoph1967 oh, they do have a process. They also say this in their ToS:
"By connecting to the Fuel Rats IRC network, you agree to abide by the following rules. If you break any of the following rules, you may find yourself banned from the Fuel Rats IRC network and all our other services. If you do not agree, simply disconnect from the network and do not reconnect."
And:
"Do not request a rescue without being in a situation where you believe you are stranded and in need of help. Do not be involved in or help set up an ambush against rats. Do not deliberately run out of fuel in order to cause a rescue situation. The Fuel Rats have limited available personnel at any given time and spurious cases deplete those resources away from those in actual need.
If you wish to arrange a mock rescue with the Fuel Rats to get an understanding of how we work, please contact us about it via our chat channel instead."
@@Racko94 - I was trying to be politic about this, but you completely misconstrued my statement to make your own. Purely from the perspective of a Service Organization, the Fuel Rats dropped the ball in how they dealt with a Customer.
They asked no questions of the customer, they went straight to refusal of service (as opposed to explaining why it was inappropriate with a request not to do it again), AND they were discriminatory & went out of their way to give offense when they handed down the punishment.
Their actions were high handed, more geared toward someone that was an habitual offender instead of a one off, and blame shifting, because the Request never should have gotten through the Process in the first place.
@@Chrystoph1967 The dude banned is a rat. He's expected to know the rules because he's a part of the service.
In addition. You have to click accept to those rules to use the service. He's already accepted them.
I'm honestly surprised it was just a 30 day ban. He called the rats when he wasn't even low on fuel when everyone who plays the game seriously knows to treat the FR like an emergency service.
Exigeous: Breaks rules
Exigeous: Gets 30 day ban
Exigeous: :O
Clockwork Spider
Oh, he got banned temporarily? Then all's fine and well.
Fuel rats mods must really got a stick up their ass lmaoooo
Pilot Thundur
As long as fuel drips down that stick, what's the problem?
@@Vertaego Sometimes. Rats are really busy, and depending on the time he called, we could have LOTS of things going on. From the hours of 5-9 PM(my time), we usually have at least 3 rescues going on at the same time. A rescue meant for "demonstration" should not be done at a time when people's lives were at risk.
@@noahpennington6173 'lives at risk'? its a video game. Boohoo you need to spend your rebuy and lose your data. plan better next time
>break rules
>get banned
>get salty about it
what?
I think you're in the wrong here man. I used the Fuel Rat service just the other day for the first time and the person that came to help me was in the middle of doing something. It took him about a half hour to finish what he was doing to change ships and warp to me. The pilot and dispatcher in chat were real professional and courteous about it. That's an hour of their time for the round trip, not counting the 20 minutes of time I took up asking him a bunch of newbie questions. I know you might consider it a game but some people take this seriously and you should respect that for the free service they provide. I'll even go so far to say that if the leadership needs this type of style to lead (letter of the law), then so be it. It's just that way-- to keep their operation running.
Elite Gamegerous
To keep the illegals out
@Elite Gamegerous - To keep people with short attention spans away.
Which is worse to you, a game player group running at 98% efficiency with a smile on their face, or one running at 99% efficiency but with an authoritarian bureaucratic and ruthless hand? In my country the spirit of the law is enforced above the letter of it and I every day I am thankful for it. Otherwise I would get a ticket for making way for a fire engine by briefly ducking into an empty bus lane for 4 seconds.
@@geretstarseeker453 Well, I don't think this was ruthless at all. It was a 30 day ban and Exigeous can use the service after the time is up. Ruthless would be to ban him forever. And even then, if that's how this group wanted to run their free service, then that's the way it goes. Sure it would suck, but it's not that way... and he took one for the team so now we really know. Besides, from a roleplaying aspect, I can respect it. If they want to do black and white, zeroes and ones, then ok.
Navigating the galaxy might need this kind of structure and discipline-- and coming from a military family, that's how I think commanders should feel. So, Commander Exigeous, I feel was wrong to complain about how they're not following *his* rules.
It's. a. videogame.
Thats just standing up to their rules and not willing to bend them.
They are 100% correct and this video is very sad
Dude, despite your best intentions, if you wanted to put the rats on a public livestream without actual requiring services, you should have told them in IRC and arranged a form of collaboration for your channel as common curtesy; I think this demonstrates that just because your channel is large this does not mean that you are so important to assume you can do whatever you like.
You took the words outta my mouth...You nailed it. it's all about importance and ego..unnecessary drama
@@jwalker8840 i guess sometimes an error is just an error, i wouldnt be to harsh, ban was right tho
Nor is the fuel rats management so important that they can send correspondence as curt, ruthless, unfun, and bureaucratic as this. They are supposed to represent Elite's finest, brightest side so should be capable of being nice, giving a friendly reminder of the terms of service before coming down like an overzealous parking ticket inspector.
@CSW lol, you wrote in a paragraph what took me a book.. Sadly I can't help but autistically dadsplain everything.. but yup, ban deserved.
Am gonna kill a fuel rat
You've spent the whole video saying you were in the right, never showed you were right, then proved you were wrong.
This on you.
@DC Gaming no I'm pretty sure we did, and Exigeous is 100% in the wrong here.
@DC Gaming 0:37, 3:08, 4:11, and generally implied throughout the entire video.
@DC Gaming If you're going to ask someone's age, then you should at least try to act with some kind of maturity.
Your grammar and spelling makes it extremely hard to read what you're saying and it all comes off as nothing more than an incoherent mess. As for my age, I'm 30 if you must know.
Judging by what you've said, you will basically only hear what you want to hear, and you will defend Exigeous no matter what he says or does simply because you're a fan, so there's no point in me continuing this discussion.
@DC Gaming lol
@DC Gaming lol tf, even if you're old enough doesn't change the fact that you're childish and useless
Another entitled content creator thinking they are more important than everyone else and that the rules don't apply to them.
They had no choice but to ban you, as you forced them to have to do so to deter others from breaking the rules as you did. In fact, given the situation, it was more important to enforce the rules on you than any "normal person". You publicly broke the rules, and they need to make sure others aren't influenced by your stream to do the same thing.
What's worst of all though, is that you couldn't just look at it objectively, accept that you were in the wrong, understand why they had to slap your wrist and deal with it.
Instead, you have made it worse but using your platform to try to badmouth them and make them look bad for enforcing their rules on you.
I think it's awful that you try to tarnish the reputation of the Fuel rats just because you're annoyed at being treated just like everyone else.
All you've done is tarnished your own reputation.
You're not special. Grow up.
I'm sure he's more upset they imply their rules run by a code of conduct that caters to his fellow man but in the first sign of trouble they banned him without warning which is unprofessional by those standards, It's understandable he can't help it kinda ingrained in him.
@@salowoonton9922
I mean, he was a fuel rat so he should have been familiar with the ToS. Not to mention that he purposefully didn't refuel when he had ample oppertunity just so he could call the Rats to demonstrate on-stream, which wouldn't have been an issue if he hadn't submitted it as an emergency.
@@salowoonton9922 I mean.. the FR are treated like an emergency service in the the game. And one with a very limited service capability.
The IRL equivalent would be calling an ambulance to give you a ride to a hotel because your feet hurt. Oh and the person calling is an EMT and should know better.
Whilst it appears a little extreme, the rules are there for all to see.
That being said, it is an excellent opportunity to demonstrate the reprocussions of breaking the rules (as i for one was not aware of this).
I was under impression that rules are there to be broken... it all depends how you look at whole system of rules... and how rebellious you are.
@@VelidBiH o7
I feel like it shouldn't have been a band but it should have been a warning and maybe like a restrictive service kind of thing like when you get a fine in a starport you have limited access to it. maybe like only one or two rescues limited for that month or something like that but just a straight-up ban doesn't seem fair at all
@@Canadian_Ale Its not a straight up ban, its a 30 day ban for a service he doesn't use. Its basically a slap on the wrist...
@@VelidBiH... and how much you understand why there are rules and why they (sometimes) need to be followed.
If you'd cleared it with Dispatch, you wouldn't have been banned.
As a drilled rat yourself, you know as well as the rest of us why these rules are put in place. Wanting special treatment due to being a big youtuber for ED, or because you feel like your "unique" enough to deserve it is a pretty bad look. Your a great guy, and your videos help so many players of this game, but you are clearly in the wrong here. Just own up to it and move on.
Side note: learn the difference between "your" and "you're." Seriously.
@@antonyduhamel1166 being a grammar nazi? seriously?
@@Howling_In_The_Dark Did I threaten you? Did I insult your intelligence or tell you that you're not human? Hardly. I advised you to learn to write better English. If you label everyone you don't like as "Nazi" you not only lose credibility but the word itself loses meaning. When everything's as bad as Nazis, nothing is.
That moment you get caught being a gramer nazi and become a keyboard warrior instead smh
@@antonyduhamel1166 not a real Nazi. They actually hold importance in history. You're being a grammar nazi. Maybe you should educate yourself a bit more kid.or just read the whole comment before you throw a fit like a child 😂 snowflake
Instead of making this video to call out the Fuel Rats for a 30 day suspension, I think the better response would have been to just say "Oops, my bad, I'm sorry. I didn't intend to violate the Fuel Rats' rules, and I won't do it again."
You broke the rules, lesson learned, everyone moves on. Making a video to publicly disagree with the decision just creates unnecessary drama. I love your videos, but this one I don't feel serves any constructive purpose.
Yep. Special pleading is never a good look I'm afraid.
I’m not seeing the video the same as you at all. It seems more to me like he accepts that he was wrong and just wanted to give his side of the story to make it clear that he wasn’t trying to exploit them or anything. It was just an honest mistake and this video was just meant to explain that.
@@coolhwhip49 there's a lot of Streisand effect here.
@@Giby86 How so?
@@coolhwhip49 I, and I'm sure many others, wouldn't have even known that this whole thing happened if he didn't mention it. If he didn't "give his side of the story", I wouldn't even known that he was "wrong" about something in the first place. He created publicity around the very thing he's disappointed/upset/ashamed about. In other words, the Streisand effect.
I mean it is like calling the police for no reason. Them arriving and saying to your live stream, so that is how you get the police to arrive at your house
My view: You should have contacted the Rats in advance of committing their resources and breaking their rules on a live stream. Given that context, I suspect that you probably left them with no alternative but to treat you like any other CMDR who had done that. Anything else would have been clear case of favouritism, not context, in my opinion.
I agree, that seems like the obvious solution here. I'm sure they would have been happy to stage a demonstration if they were contacted in advance about it.
This guy gets it.
Lol if he had contacted them for that they would have refused « because » it would be a super bad exemple on how not to call the fuel rats, with high visibility. 30 days ban is more than kind for being so arrogant and bitchy.
This is mindless sheep talk...
You all have it in your heads that "WHY" DOES NOT MATTER
Thats ludicrous especially in a game that we are trying to encourage new players to invest attention and time into...
So sad that all of you fuel rat supporters place the rules of an ingame clan above the value of comrodery brought by what this man did
Showing the togetherness of the community and aiding others in finding their ways to the tools which allow them to have a smoother game experience...
Time for the sheep to rest your necks if you ask me
@@ryanstreeval4935 i re-watched the part of the stream where he called them and he even said to them he was on a stream. they could have denied him right there but they didn't.
I like it. It shows their commitment to their guidelines. And as a plus, you know you can rely on them.
You don't need guidelines to know this was a dumb thing to to hahaha. Equivalent to calling 911 and saying oops just wanted to demo u guys for a vid
the road to hell is paved with good intentions. a ban well earned.
:)
Big fan of yours Exi. However I agree with the others here, I think you made a mistake.
I mean if he was gonna run out of fuel before reaching the station, then it should be fine, right?
Real EMS would likely just give a very strong warning about this happening. In fact, real EMS would not be allowed to outright ban an individual from their services for any period of time regardless of the nature of the call.
This is a game. This isn't real. Having such a hardline, no compromises policy is just being an asshole about it.
And even if we grant that the rats intend to take this as seriously as real life, then they have no business outright banning someone from the service they are offering.
He made a mistake and he should be open to penalty for that mistake, but being banned from receiving emergency services in this context is mean, lazy, and outright unethical. Two wrongs don't make a right. Rat leadership could have handled this differently.
@@Josh-bb3xi umm irl it can be jail and a fine. If you did it while broadcasting a video they would definitely pursue prosecution. He got a slap on the wrist to dissuade people from making s habit out of this
@@skitzoemu1 thank you for proving my point. like YOU just said, if you abuse real EMS, YOU CAN GO TO JAIL. They DO NOT ban you from calling them, they LOCK YOU UP.
Thank you, AGAIN, for proving my point.
@@Josh-bb3xi a fuel rat ban is like a months probation. Last i checked it was quite hard to call EMS from a jail cell.
I think they only want to respond to emergencys, where you, as it seems were using them as a personal refueling service. You could say that you can abuse their service by doing whatever it is that you're doing, knowing youl run out of fuel, and thinking that you can call them for help over and over again.
“Apparently I was” is as insincere as “I apologize if you were offended”. You don’t care/think you were wrong. You broke their rule. They don’t care what your intentions were, and saying they should stick with the “spirit” of a rule is stupid. Just admit you were wrong instead of trying to say “do I care about the ban, nooooo, I haven’t made a noob mistake like that....”. You simultaneously show you do care (by making this whole video) while also insulting the people they help. I just started playing the game and found this after watching one of your tips videos....I’ve never gone from supporting to not supporting someone as fast. 😂
I think a 30 day ban is very fair
It should have been a warning first at least. Not a straight up ban maybe even like a five-day ban would even be understandable but a whole month?
@@Canadian_Ale A 30 day ban is more like a slap on the wrist to a streamer who will likely never actually need their services. With all due respect I think Exegious is blowing this way out of proportion, a 30 day ban for misuse is a very minor punishment for a very minor offense.
@@Canadian_Ale 30 day ban is nothing. Do you remember when was the last time you have to call upon the help of a fuel rat? Some people never needed it once in the last few years of playing ED.
@@Canadian_Ale 30 day ban is the warning.
@Abigail Slaughter I plot all my routes by scoopable stars. Yes it can take longer but I'm guaranteed to not run out of fuel. I also equip all my ships with scoops.
usually i dont call an amulance, when i dont have a car and dont want to use the public transport to go to the doctor, i call them if im unable. They are a rescue service and you didnt need a rescue.
Poor example, people do this all the time. Literally all the time. a solid 25-50% of EMS medical calls are people with minor symptoms wanting a ride to the hospital (when they could have gotten themselves there, or taken an uber/lyft which would have been cheaper than the ambulance).
source: former practicing EMT, still connected to local EMS system where I live.
@@HC130P8419 Cool, you missed their point completely.
Ah dude, you just messed up. Take the shame and move on. Love the channel and your content.
I'm sorry for you but I think you were wrong and they're absolutely right to react swiftly and promptly to this type of action. It would be like calling fire-fighters for a fire you started just to show them off. While they're losing their precious time for your convenience, they can't help someone who's really in need of their assistance. Imagine all youtubers and streamers doing that for the same motives you presented... Anyway, they didn't ban you forever, 30 days is nothing in Elite world.
It's A GAME. These people have a very warped sense of self importance.
@@C.I... It's a game for both parties, isn't it?
Uhh yeah it's nothing like that at all. While fire fighters serve the real world fuel rats serve an imaginary one.
@@JaaaaaaaC If it were not, why be so outraged about a ban in an imaginary world then? Also, fuel rats don't serve an imaginary world, they are REAL people who invest their own REAL time to help REAL people save their ships which cost them REAL hours of grinding...
As a rat you have to FIGHT to get a case. This isn't a team operating on vastly limited resources critical to saving lives. I should know I'm one of em
This was absolutely justified. You were too lazy to go and fuel up, and as a result you got banned for mis-using a public service. It's like calling the cops on kids playing in the street, it's wasting their time.
You think way too highly of yourself.
Woah dude, it's one thing saying the rats were justified. I agree they were in this situation. But saying he's lazy and and selfish is a bit out of turn. He just wanted to demonstrate the process on a stream and didn't fully understand the consequemces of his actions. All in all i don't think Exigeios is deep in the wrong here either, and definitely not lazy. It probably takes longer for the rats to get to him than it did for him to stop at a station and refuel.
These guys are playing video games. Comparing them to people putting their actual lives on the line is disrespectful, in my opinion
@@hopearchangel4624 Then why are you even fucking here? He abused a system meant to help players, thus hurting their experience. That’s not hard to find out.
@@hopearchangel4624 the guy posting this video takes it as a series thing. Not a game only. Comments here follow as a result.
so do the fuel rats, they think they are actually important. its a fucking game, dont compare it to miss using 911.
Dude their rules are literally on their websites terms of service section. And it specifically say this if you can be arsed to scroll down a little:
"Do not request a rescue without being in a situation where you believe you are stranded and in need of help. Do not be involved in or help set up an ambush against rats. Do not deliberately run out of fuel in order to cause a rescue situation. The Fuel Rats have limited available personnel at any given time and spurious cases deplete those resources away from those in actual need.
If you wish to arrange a mock rescue with the Fuel Rats to get an understanding of how we work, please contact us about it via our chat channel instead."
You not knowing their rules are YOUR problem!
Ctuchik , I am a fuel rat and I just wanted to mention that yes, whilst it does state that, the rats also understand that the loss of ship and cargo is a big deal to most people, and I can understand and even identify with the TOS in the need for fuel to be desperate, and in one way, not stopping to refuel along the way at other stations is probably the reason for the ban, as the situation is avoidable. But, if it becomes more of a problem, I may need to have a chat with leadership on the community’s behalf. Let’s see where this goes first...
Honestly, I thought they had some type of charge for this delivery action, be that credits or currency IRL. He’s definitely wrong to do this, at least without mentioning the specifics of the situation to a Fuel Rat leader or something. Blatant misuse of your fellow commanders’ kindness, sir. Hopefully you’ve seen that by now.
Dude, love you and what you do...but this video should have been named "Lamenting a lack of communication in delivering a response to my initial lack of communication" lol
Fuel Rats communication is perfectly acceptable. It's the same simple ban template they'd hand out to ALL PLAYERS. He knows exactly how he broke the rules, he doesn't need extra explanation. Certainly not as a "courtesy" to a "big streamer" so they don't get "upset". This was straight up whining.
@Caleb Imrie I like how some people think that using "It is a fucking game" statement suddenly makes all their bs arguments valid. Good job man, keep it up.
It is a free service. Their time, their rules. Period.
exigeous, normally i like your vids, but in this case i can't support what you did. you deserved the banhammer and honestly they're nice to only ban you for 30 days. you need to put up an honest apology instead of this passive-aggressive quasi-apology/explanation/excuse. their rules are clear and they're there to help those truly in need. considering they do it for absolutely nothing in return, they don't owe you a thing and you are obliged to play by their rules. if you wanted to promote them, maybe contact them first and ask for permission. instead, you called them basically for fun, and they punished you for it. it's well deserved in my book. think of it this way: what do you think would happen IRL if you called the cops while filming to "promote" them?
Exigious does not need to apologize. A 30 day suspension was issued, the case is closed. Exigious did wrong with good intentions, they treated him like any other Cmdr. I don't like their cold way of doing this, but I understand. There is no need to ask for permission to record/promote them, they are not special/above the rules. You can record Gary371 you can record FuelRatJamie. I empathize with Exigious, I empathize with the fuel rats, however I cannot empathize with you. Sounds like you just want him to be their bitch, that they're the Elite overlords. They definitely do great things for the community and we should appreciate that but they're not all-holy gifts from god. They don't matter outside of Elite, we owe them nothing. It's them who are obliged to play by our rules. The same rules EVERYONE abides by. Take your god-tier opinion of them and shove them up your ass, don't expect anyone to go digging up there to join them. Exigious was frustrated but we see he knew in the end what happened. The case is closed.
They're not real life cops..
Hang on a minute, he broke no such rule. This was NOT a false case. He NEEDED fuel otherwise he wouldn’t make it to the station. That’s their policy.
@@skull1256 he didn't need fuel to arrive at the station, he had enough to reach a station along the route. He didn't have enough fuel to reach the destination but he hadn't run out when he asked for help so it was a false claim.
Dafydd Rees-Jones But the matter of this scenario didn’t need that kind of punishment. Absolutely pathetic! All he done was try to teach new cmdrs new things and perhaps show them how the fuelrats work. Yes he could of changed the way he done things, but the outcome of this is absolutely stupid.
I literally started playing this game today and know that you should not do this. Seriously?
I saw your call come in and I saw that it wasn't an emergency, so I knew that was breaking the rules, and pointed that out in rat-chat but everyone seemed chill with it and there were no other cases, so I thought all was fine. Wasn't expecting this to happen but I'm not surprised.
Firstly I'd to say I have enjoyed your content and that I have a number of your videos in a playlist as a quick reference that I return to often.
Secondly I'm not a Fuel Rat and have not used the Fuel Rats.
Having said that I do believe you were in the wrong in this case.
1, My understanding of the Fuel Rats is that they are a limited (Only by the mechanics of the game) Intergalactic Coast Guard. An Emergency Service.
2, You did say that you intended to have the Fuel Rats re-fuel you ALONG the way. Hence KNEW before under taking the trip that you would run out of fuel.
3, You appear to have told the streaming community of your intent to run out of fuel on propose. (I did not see the stream in question, I'm using want you present in this video.)
4, You EXPECTED to be treated differently from the rest of us Hoi Polloi, To get SPECIAL TREAT. You showed intent to have the Fuel Rats be your own personal KC-10 Extender.
If you had done the same thing with the real world Coast Guard,
1, You would very probably would only know you were in the doghouse when the local police turned up to arrest you or you were served a court summons.
2, You would find yourself charged with wasting the Coast Guards time. Which equals a Bill for fuel, labour, court costs, a fine and possibly a loss of any piloting licence.
3, You may also be charged with "Reckless endangerment" and or "Criminal Negligence"
4, If you wanted to showcase the Real Coast Guard you'd have to supply them in advanced with an outline of what you wanted to do.
I understand your pissed at getting a ban, I would be, But I think if your honest with yourself, Your more pissed that you got treated the same as everybody else.
Best wishes to you Exigeous, and remember a tiara does not suit you, no matter how shining it is.
Wow, Le Ha. That was incredibly judgemental. I'm actually impressed.
I love the direct, yet still smiling tone of this response!
Exi is a good dude, and as you say, this was likely an ego bruised response to being 'no exception to the rules' .
Ha, we all have an ego, I laugh at my own when it does stupid things. if he can accept it for what it is, make good on putting his hands up, with a little self deprecation for the lols, no harm done right?!
Me thinks thou protesteth too much.
“...no warning given...”
The warning *is* given, in their terms of service. Quit whining.
I wouldn't say whining. He just feels he was 1 of them so it seems kinda harsh.
Really how many people actually read the ToS agreements to well anything that we go on to use?
@@yumri4, if you agree to something despite not reading the terms, that’s your problem, not the other party.
@@Vessekx So we all agree that Google, MIrcosoft, Facebook and Amazon all own all our personal data past, present and future?
@@yumri4, you should really work on your reading comprehension. No wonder you’re confused by a terms of service document.
I was pretty mad after receiving a speeding ticket once. When I was a teenager.
"boring subjects such as trade" - how dare you! It's more, a subject of niche interest.
You know what is a boring subject?
Ganking. Jumping unarmed ships and break their cargo holds to steal their cargo, or blowing them up.
That is boring, or at least it is not fun for the person being abused.
@@57thorns trader here, definitely agree.
@LKCV You’d have a point if it didn’t make pennies. No one attacks unarmed ships for profit, they do it because they’re frail and sadistic.
Last paragraph says it all. If you were a rat yourself in the past, you should be familiar with rules and procedures. I believe thats why there was no conversation, no warnings, just straightforward ban. And I agree. Break the rule, no reasoning is necessary, go straight to punishment. How would it go? "Hey, you broke the rules, we have to ban you you now." "Oh no wait i did it because of this and that" "ah ok, good to know, youre still banned though because rules are rules".
He was a rat 3 years ago lmao, you remeber the policies from an ingame group 3 years ago? Hell no
@@xelyius5480 such a crucial one for sure. In fact, its kind of a nobrainer that you dont call the rats without reason. Even if it werent in the rules.
@@xelyius5480
You took your drivers test 3 years ago? Are you expected to remember to obey the rules of the road after 3 years? Hell no.
Speed and you'll get off without punishment if you tell them it was to show of because of the CONTEXT and INTENT.
@@meoka2368 imagine talking about punishable laws in real life and thinking it's even remotely comparable to a player group in a video game. oop your stupid
@@xelyius5480 apparently the rules of a player group in a video game are punishhable aswell.
This seems entirely fair and justified. You were in the wrong and this video comes across as a veiled whine about your ban.
I like your content, this isn't your normal standard.
he didn't whine, he was discussing the situation. Nothing wrong about having a discussion and expressing different thoughts, that's what grown up do!
@@sam93931 I didn't say he was whining. I said it comes across as a veiled whine. It's essentially complaining about their rules being enforced under the guise of understanding.
I do think that the rule they're enforcing needs a review as its unlikely their IRC is so busy that they need it clear for 'emergencies' at all times. However he knows the rules and they're clear on the site. Doesn't matter that he's a popular ED youtuber. It doesn't mean he can expect special treatment. Therefore the ban is what it is and should have been expected.
agreed, it was 100% a veiled whine. the way he said he was *apparently* in the wrong (or something like that) says it all, and really rubbed me the wrong way
@@seraphik Agreed, I'm a new pilot and common sense would tell pretty much anyone that this would be an abuse of their time.
I like the content here enough to subscribe, but I like what the Rats did more -- they showed that big names deserve zero more entitlement than the rest of us.
Good admins with rules in place don't argue them with people that break them.
@@Taphosthewarlock
"... its unlikely their IRC is so busy that they need it clear for 'emergencies' at all times..."
The thing about cases is that they like to come in in bursts. Earlier today (on a Tuesday of all days) there was 12-15 active rescues going on at once. Diverting resources and attention isn't good.
The police /probably/ aren't busy when you call them, but while they're responding to your call someone else might get hurt. Same thing. Don't abuse emergency services, especially when they're free volunteers.
Commander, I have to side with the rats on this one. I would consider pre-arranging this a given, considering your intent. Having said that, I would love for you to arrange with them a video of the refuel procedure, once the ban is lifted. I love your videos and have learned much.
imagine no commanders taking fuel scoops anymore to save a slot for something else and just plot 'emergencies' every 5 jumps or so. what a great idea
I always travel with a fuel scoop on every ship. This leads me to believe that the fuel rats were in the right but took the punishment too far. Even a warning or like a 7-Day ban would have been more but a whole month?
@@Canadian_Ale their company, their rules. the letter clearly said he knew the TOS but broke them anyway.
@@Canadian_Ale 30 days is nothing. Its not like experienced players run out of fuel all the time. This ban in reality is not even a punishment as long as he pays attention.
@@TheAnhydrite yeah I had to call them twice in a month when I first got the game. 2 years after and I've never needed them since. No excuses.
The fuel rats have a strict regimen of selecting rats, training them, keeping check of whats happening and every sngle case they do. Every case is filed for every customer and credited to the one actually doing the refueling. As there is little systemic support by elite itself this is neccessary to keep this a fair service for everyone that keeps a positive feedback from the community. Thus also the rules of how a rescue goes is very strict. Now what I don't know is how many active rats there is atm it could be that they are running low since elite had a dip in players in general, and so usually cases can pile up fast especially in "prime time" thus rats losing valuable time being called falsely, you wouldnt also call the fire brigade to extinguish your cigarette. The difference there is the rats do that all for the love of it and arent getting any payout (and are proud in that). So yes those rules are there to protect what the rats do, and the customers that actually need it, and are already stressed out when they contact the rats in the first place. I get you had no ill intent, but it was a bit naive none the less and i completely get the reaction, that i think is even adequate.
Well said
We have about 10 rats standby at a seconds notice at any given time, for PC. Usually slightly less for XB or PS
@@Rik079 The lates statistics from the horses mouth:
On average over the last years those (approximately) 10 rats made 60 rescues per day. Yes, there are many more ratis, but not everyone is on standby at all times. Even if they are doing other business (and some are not, some are actually at a neutron star with a boosted FSD ready to do) they are giving up the cargo space for those fuel limpets and the controller.
On top of this, it is not just _one_ rat involved, even a simple rescue will also involve a dispatcher.
These are all people paying to volunteer their time.
Disrespecting there commitment is despicable.
@@57thorns I should point out that I'm a fuel rat myself, and I have been for a long time. I do not see how that comment was disrespectful to other rats, I'm merely stating facts from experience, and even those facts aren't disrespectful in any way :D
@@Rik079 I saw no disrespect in your comment, the topic of this video however is disrespecting the fuel rats. I merely added some statistics to show support for the decision to put exigious in his place.
I subscribed here because of a tutorial I watched and five minutes later I wasn't because I found this video.
Intentions, context and closed-door discussions are irrelevant. Harsh as it may sound, their decision is the only possible one. Besides, you wanted to show off their service, right? Good: this gives THEM a chance to show off what happens if someone disrespect their rules.
100% with the rats on this one.
k
30 days for the false call
365 days for trying to start TH-cam drama
I mean, you violated their policy. And you even admit to being wrong ( 4:52 ). They have to remain fair and impartial, so what kind of message would it send to the community if they just give special treatment to certain people? Basically you're asking for special treatment because you're a "celebrity" in the community, which is pretty shitty. You're no different than anyone else, bud.
And if you "don't care" about being banned, then why even make the video? This is really in poor taste. I really don't even believe this warranted a video and kinda seems like you're just crying about it.
Im actually speechless at this. Ive been watching your videos as they are some of the best content available for Elite for a long time. Recently came back from a break and then came across this. You were in the wrong, no two ways about it. No issue with your intent, but you should have just apologised and admitted you were in the wrong. Very disappointing.
To be honest, professionalism would just have been to apologise, instead of calling them out.
HVAC repairman: It was no problem working on your air conditioner. I'd do it again because I love it so much!
Accounts Receivable: I'm about to end this man's whole career.
Rats were in the right. Since you were able to get fuel and still called them. Perhaps giving them a heads up and the ability to consider your idea, would have helped for a planned promotion. No special consideration for successful TH-camrs. Entitlement is not a good look. Even when you are the best at making Elite videos.
i was in my car and streaming driving process live , then i feel headache so i decided to call ambulance to show my viewer how it works and how great medics are. I could drive to the nearest hospital with easy but this was for my viewers on educational purpose of course . Then i receive 30 days ban for calling ambulance, without warning.
Exigeous, im very like your streams, your tutorials and i`m very appreciate for all what you are doing for community. But in this situation you are wrong. o7
@@AussieArcade because it was in open, and he ask players for help having wingman's around. To clarify -
I do not blame him, I think that he is wrong, this is my personal opinion
So the fuel rats are the same as a real world life saving medical service in your brain? You need to seriously get help.
@@noisyboyuk fuel rats ARE doing other things. They drop what they are doing to help improve the game experience for other people, but that isn't exclusively what they do...
30 days! That's it?
You should have used it as a tutorial video that the misuse has consequences. While if it just kinda happened that way and you ended up needing them I'd be with you but when you decided your plan was to call them you were in the wrong. That is like setting your house on fire to show how the fire department works (as an extreme example.) There are willing to work with community members if you talked to them first. It is completely fair that when you misused their service that banned you from it.
I agree with a vast number of the comments here.
Rather than wasting their time, it would’ve been better to pre arrange a demonstration - think fire services or police doing days at schools to raise awareness and such.
Whats been done here is the equivalent of a false call, good intentions or not.
Once the ban wears off, great, back to business and perhaps down the line you can organise something but hopefully you learn from mistakes.
Unfortunately, people who play a video game and decide to join a certain community within that game is not nearly the same as real life firemen or policemen protecting people's lives. At the end of the day, no one is going to care about this and forget about it the next day.
@Abigail Slaughter I didn't "search" for a reason to dismiss anything nor was I saying your criticism wasn't valid. I was merely making a statement that remains true even now. Take it or leave it. It matters not to me.
@Abigail Slaughter Indeed. I hope you have a nice day.
Earlier today I got myself into a situation where I was almost too late to realise that I didn't have enough fuel to get to my destination. By the time I realised though, I was 18 fuel efficient jumps away from the nearest station with refuelling facilities. I limped into the station with the vapours in the tank. I considered calling the rats, but did my best to avoid having to call them. Thankfully I didn't need them this time, but I'm grateful that they will be there for me if I do need them.
The fuel rats are heroes to people who need them, and I wouldn't even think of calling them out for a situation I couldn't get myself out of.
Listen to yourself, dude. The fuel rats are taking time out of their IRL days to improve people's experiences with a game they love, and you called them knowing full well that you could have done without them. You wasted their time, and now you're complaining about a temporary ban? The fuel rats are a privilege, not a right, and certainly not a toy. Have some humility.
So you knowingly brake the fule rats rules. And then get pissed of because they ban you? 🤦🏻♂️ If you were going to promote fuel rats during your stream. Then why not ask before if it is ok to brake the rules that time??
break*
yeeeee you deserved it m8. After all, it's only 30 days, they clearly want to do business with you and interact with you in the future, but also stick to their rules. That's how they work
I think they are trying to show EVERYONE who views your stream./video about calling them falsely that there will be serious consequences. They are highlighting something in the process you didnt. They simply showed the completing of the process if done maliciously.
This. We've had Village Idiot griefers who've sent them fake emergency SAR beacons of being stranded in Open. Only to have their griefer buddies lie in wait in adjacent systems. So they can drop in and gank the crap out of the non combat build FR who shows up. THAT sort of griefer tomfuckery earned a player a permaban from the game by FDev a while back.
@@simsdiver5201 Nice to hear that FDec actually acted on behalf of the Fuel Rats.
Their original policy of treating everyone the same regardless of circumstances was bound to be abused, I will settle for fairly every day of the week. And this no service for Karen Exigeous for 30 days was quite fair. Has anyone ever called the Fuel Rats twice in 30 days?
The station closest to where I mine i swap out fsd booster and fuel scoop for two collector limpets. That way i still have longer jump and fuel scoop for when I'm done.
I do this also, and have not yet remembered to put the limpet back in a fire group
I'd like to remind everyone that Fuel Rats do not have "leadership". There are operators and moderators as well as tech-rats and seers, all of which have very specific tasks, none of which are to "lead".
There is no "top" in Fuel Rats organisational structure.
The rules are followed by everyone and enforced without prejudice or exceptions. As an anarchic commune designed to be as fluid in numbers as possible, not relaying on same people to be constant, Fuel Rats rules were designed to be that way.
It is unfortunate that CMDR Exigeous fell under the rules discussed here, but rules are rules.
I had seen and even refuelled a few streamers, who hadn't even needed the fuel, just calling us on stream to show us off. It was years ago, and at the time they faced no concequences at all. In fact, one of those videos is still attracting quite a few clients for us, as it is still the top search-result on "run out of fuel in ED" in Russian language...
In that sence I do see why this video was made.
On the other hand, I myself had faced off and struggled against certain Fuel Rats rules in the past and spent months in discussions regarding them. In the end, all for nought.
Fuel Rats rules are not flexible. For better or worse - that is indeed the case and rules are rules.
But that is not because of some "leadership". There isn't such.
And almost all of those were organised beforehand with the Dispatch as a non-emergency demonstration fueling.
I agree with you here but am forced to be pedantic for a moment. The group can't be anarchic *and* have rules...
"Anarchic"
adjective
"with no controlling rules or principles to give order."
I know as a younger guy I loved the idea of Anarchy because when we are young we *all* believe we are the strong ones. Then when you get older you realize anarchy is actually pretty lame. Sure, rules are lame too, their just *less* lame then anarchy. Best case scenario is you as an all powerful omnipotent dictator, but clearly that's only helpful for whoever is the dictator (and possibly his friends depending on how nice he is, at least in the beginning).
Regardless, I agree with the FRs here. But It's never fun being called out, especially when you think your doing something "good", so I feel for Ex here as well. But of course plenty of terrible things have happened under the umbrella of "good" so, rules..
@@bp968 Pretty sure the forerats wenth with the more broad definition of:
Anarchy is the state of a society being freely constituted without authorities or a governing body. It may also refer to a society or group of people that totally rejects a set hierarchy.
and
Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that rejects all involuntary, coercive forms of hierarchy.
@@LeeNTien "rules are followed and enforced" "anarchic" "commune". Again, not anarchy if it has rules and the ability to enforce them.
But not relevant, since by your description it really sounds like its community governed by a collective. Or a "complete democracy" which might actually be functional in an organisation like that since those "governed" are not really capable of voting so they can't vote themselves whatever they want.
What you describe isn't far from what many of the founding fathers of the US wanted and why many opposed the idea of the office of the president. Without the president it was a collection of representatives from each state, some for the peoples interests (Congress) and some for the states interest (the Senate). And all with essentially equal power (since the senators were 2 per state and elected by the state level representatives themselves).
Man it really got broken didn't it?
@@bp968 There's the philosophical/original meaning of anarchy, which is simply the purest form of democracy by having no unjustified hierarchy, and which is basically the smallest unit of human organization (i.e. you and your friends, or significant other ideally); and there's the pop culture/propaganda meaning of anarchy, which is a synonym with chaos. The fuel rats are closer to the former. Anarchy doesn't mean no rules, it means no hierarchy.
Downvoted because you were entirely in the wrong and you showed no contrition for that. Also, you gave your viewers the impression that they could call the Rats for similar situations when they should not. You weren't permabanned, you were just temporarily banned for reasons that you already knew about. You need to take responsibility for your actions and apologise for your behaviour in all this.
He absolutely did not give viewers the impression they could call the Rats for similar situations.
Well, you used the Fuel Rats for a really minuscule problem and *only* got a *temporary* ban. Hope you learned your lesson there.
LOL yikes man, it's just 30 days for literally *breaking Fuel Rats' ToS*
3:30
Exigeious: did you give them warning?
Exigeious: did you have any discussion with them before breaking the rules?
Exigeious: did you at all entertain the notion of involving them at any point of pre-planning this trip?
No?
Then why the hell would you expect them to give you the time of day when you didn't give them it in the first place.
Punishment is deserved and justly served.
Edit: in fact with the attempt at publicly undermining fuel rats and an effort to shame them into recinding the ban, I'd be in favour of an extension of said ban.
Oh- I don't think he was undermining them- he just disagrees with their decision. I'm sure after reading all these comments, he understands why they did what they did.
Never used the fuel rats before but it concerns me that if I ever do need them and I make a mistake following the rules, I could be punished as harshly. Grace and kindness goes a long way when given to those without ill-intent.
@@semirdzhyan it's a volunteer service. Grace and kindness goes a long way to those who will assist you in your hour of need.
@@semirdzhyan
It's one thing to break a rule without knowing - it happens. It's another thing entirely to break a rule, knowing full well that you broke it. Exigeuous was a fuel rat and was (or at least should have been) intimately familiar with the ToS.
The right way to do this would've been to ask for a drill, or asking for an example, I'm sure they would've been overjoyed to demonstrate if you had done it through the correct channels
I mean they literally set up drills to teach rattlings. He could have been a test drill for someone if he just explained first.
I agree the the Rats, as it could be seen as a promotion of false cases to increase cargo capacity/profits, especially in lower tier ships/new players. Also its only a 30 day ban, right? You really shouldn't be using the rats more than like once a year, if that. If you are, your not learning from you mistakes.
yeah i still dont appreciate you bullying D2EA about the split mining video. Your'e not the decisive ruler of elite dangerous or the controller of content people put out. you getting banned from the fuel rats is none of our business but here you are, trying to save face.
To be honest I kinda get both sides.
While a ban without prior contact may be a quite drastic and "unprofessional" consequence, its just a 30 day ban.
I have played Elite for years without ever needing to contact them, but the mere fact that they even exist and do this on a voluntary basis is pretty great.
So if they offer a service for free, you have to play by their rules.
And just imagine the following situation:
You run out of fuel outside the bubble after a long exploration journey and your life support is slowly but surely ticking away.
After being rescued (or not) you get to see a stream where someone in one of the most expensive and biggest trading ships is requesting rats just to get that little bit more profit out of his mining session.
To be clear:
I do love your channel and expecially admire all the hard work you put into it!!!
But as a non active Elite Player I can totally understand both sides of the argument.
And as you said: 30 Days and its already forgotten.
Fly Safe Cmdr!
o7
Yes you were in the wrong
This is like calling 911 and asking them to drive you down to PizzaHut...
First off, I do enjoy your channel. I started ED a few months ago & I'm still learning. I have to agree with the Fuel Rats on this one. Though I agree your intention WASN"T malicious or to show off in any way, you still called them when they could have used their time & resources to someone who is truly in need of their services. You could have reached out to them ahead of time before the Tuesday stream.
If I asked anyone of my friends or family to help me out when it wasn't needed or necessary, they would be pissed. End of discussion. If I notified them prior of my reasons/need for their help, it would be a different story if they have the time for me. I have made similar mistakes in my life & had to step back, look at the situation & learn from my errors. Take this a life lesson, learn from it and move forward.
You might have caused another, more needy, Commander’s demise with your frivolous request for fuel. They’re there as a last resort, not an inflight en-route refueling service. They take their rescue service very serious.
I used them for the first time in Colonia a few weeks ago and was amazed by the speed they got someone to me. Gave me the info spiel on how to set my navigation up so it wouldn’t happen again. The ban was 100% justified. If they hadn’t done it every Tom, Dick and Susie space cadet is going to do the same thing.
You meant well but the highway to hell is paved with good intentions.😁
Keep it up, love your channel.
I gotta say, Exigeous...while I enjoy your content, and I think your tutorials are some of the most immensely helpful resources in this community, I have to disagree with how you handled this. I think your response here seems more about your ego than anything else. The Rats provide a service of their time and energy in-game for nothing in return. Obviously, their leadership needs to protect them from being exploited by content creators for content generation, and this seems like their concern here. I think it's an understandable one.
You are one of the biggest content creators in this community. You broke their rules here, and rather than just say "Sorry, I should have handled this differently.", accept their response, and move on you have used your platform to call them out for how they have treated you. I think that's pretty unfair on your part and again seems pretty ego-driven. You think this wasn't a big deal, and that the response was overblown.
Put yourself in their shoes. They don't want everyone with a TH-cam channel (or someone who thinks they have a TH-cam channel) calling the Rats for content generation. That seems like a legitimate concern, and they decided to send a message here. They even suggested in their note that you used to be a Rat and should have known better, but that wasn't addressed at all in your video.
Anyway, I would just hope you have a bit more openness in the future to other people's perspectives other than your own in the future. I would like to keep supporting your content, and things like this reflect poorly on you.
While I can agree with your disputing the exact charge laid out, poor planning on your part is still not an emergency for the rats, and as a resource-limited player group who often helps people minutes away from running out of O2, they can't be expected to have the spare resources for leniency.
You got a slap on the wrist for breaking their rules. I don’t think an impermanent ban is an excessive reaction.
I also think it’s a little hot headed to interpret this as happening without considering context. As indicated in their message, they knew why you called them and considered it an inappropriate way to do such a thing.
As something like emergency responders, I think the way to consider this is to consider the real-life equivalent: calling an ambulance frivolously in order to demonstrate how great ambulances are. Regardless of intent, if an on-duty emergency medical service person is called away from their work for a surprise publicity event, that potentially puts others at risk of delayed support from the emergency services, in the worst case resulting in disaster.
While this is a game and the consequences need not be as harsh as they would be in real life, I’d say that they weren’t. There was no public statement that you represent some kind of larger issue, no attack on your right to or ability to play the game, just a rescinding of services that are provided by volunteers in the first place.
While immediately jumping to punishment rather than issuing warning may also seem harsh, I would also like to not that for a player-based volunteer organization like the Fuel Rats to take a zero-tolerance stance like this sends a clear message to potential griefers that no tomfoolery will be accepted from abusers of their services.
I’m sure, while still upsetting and even harsh, you can perhaps see why the volunteers running the Fuel Rats would consider this a fair response.
Might feel like a mildly heavy handed reaction - but they would have been more than willing to have worked with you to set up a rescue and run it if you'd asked them in advance (they've done this before). If they didn't do anything they could easily end up with loads of people staging rescues and that could overwhelm their ability to actually rescue people.
Exigeous you got exactly what you deserved. The fuel rats offer their services as a voluntary act. Those who came to your aid as an "emergency" dropped what ever they were doing to come help. You wasted their time. You got banned. Just because you're a "famous" TH-camr the rules don't apply to you?
I have to say Exigeous the quality of your "tutorials" as really dropped of late.
Is there fuel rats available on console or are they a PC only organisation?
STOLE SOCIETY there are console Rats
You put the message in the video, apparently they DID consider the context. The punishment was not "severe" at all. I think you should have known better.
Ive never called the Rats.....but i've come VERY close to doing exactly the same thing as Exigeous before.
I suppose you could call it 'Preemptive Rat calling'.
But it seemed a little harsh to do - "Hey, I'm not out of fuel, but I'm not carrying a scoop either, so if you could give up your time to help me be more efficient, that would be great!" ....its a bit of a dick move.
The answer (as others have said) is to talk to the rats AHEAD of time and let them know the context.
....either that, or fit a scoop, or (do what i did) waste a few minutes docking purely to refuel on the way.....its the unwritten rule! lol
o7
It's not even unwritten, it's clear as day in their terms
While it is written for the "Karens" of the world, the rest of use has that rule "unwritten". No need to spell it out. When my explorer come down to half tank in a field of T stars, I make very sure that the next stop is scoopable. Not only does it save me time and embarrasement, it does not waste precious resources for real emergencies. Like that one time I eventually _will_ mess up (most likely doing a semi blind neutron star jump into a Taurus mine field).