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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- Procedural generation is something that was once core to The Elder Scrolls series, but it isn't anymore. What if The Elder Scrolls VI went back to this ancient technology? Hmm....
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0:00 Intro
0:15 Worlds of yesteryear
6:19 Why do I like Daggerfall?
8:35 Space game
11:49 How the world is populated
12:55 Brainstorm time
16:51 Reality time
19:46 Outro
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What I'd love to see, as strange as it sounds, is an open-world rpg where you're *not* the main character. There's some big disaster going on, a world-ending dragon is here or whatever, but someone else is already dealing with that - you're just here to live and survive. I'd love a game where I can just *exist* in an expansive fantasy world, without being some chosen one epic hero destined to save the multiverse
Great video man! I'm sure you're aware of Dwarf Fortress already, but if procedurally generated fantasy worlds are your thing, it's definitely worth a dive. Generate an entire world procedurally and then simulate hundreds of years of history for it, watching empires rise and fall and legends be made, all by the computer. And then play in it! I like the way you think about things and am going to subscribe as soon as I finish typing this comment! I too have been longing for a kind of game you describe in your brainstorming segment. We are definitely a more niche type of consumer, as I totally understand and don't look down at all on people who need every little thing they find in the game to be unique and exciting. After all, it's a game right? And some people may only have an hour a day to play a game. But there is something I respect and admire about things in the vein of Daggerfall - an amount of content that would be impossible for someone to explore in a lifetime, it just exists simply for the sake of existing. EVE Online is of course the other game I would bring up in this vein. Their universe is actually mind-bogglingly massive when you think about it, and the fact that is persistent across one single server for the entire playerbase is kind of crazy to think about. Anyway, great content, I enjoyed listening to you talk about this kind of thing.
P.S. Another great game to check out is Caves of Qud for a procedural fantasy fix. Give it a google! Being constantly developed and updated.
It's funny you bring up Caves of Qud, because that's what I had in mind when I mentioned "a game with ASCII graphics." I almost recorded footage of it for the video!
I'm generally patient in games, but games presented like Qud always had a hard time grabbing me. I'm so used to modern games like Skyrim showing me everything, it's weird to have to work my mind to imagine the environment myself. Tales of Maj'Eyal is the "traditional' roguelike I've spent the most time in, but even then, it's only a dozen or two hours.
And I definitely have my eyes on the Dwarf Fortress steam release. I know there's tilesets that have been out for years, but it seems like this release is going beyond just another tileset, so I'm excited for that.
@@PretzelYT Have you checked out Ultima Ratio Regum? It's also a game with ASCII graphics, but generating entire believable functioning societies is kind of the core point. In fact the developer Mark R Johnson did his PhD on procedurally generated worlds.
Wayward Realms! WOOOOOO!
Welp, you were wrong! Starfield has even deeper procedural generation!
I wish I talked about Starfield more, I completely forgot about the Bethesda presentation. 🤦♂️
I was very pleased with their showing of Starfield. In addition to all the planets, I really liked that Todd emphasized Traits as a feature during character creation. Forcing yourself to take on some negatives during creation always makes for more interesting characters and Bethesda games have been missing those for a while. It really helps to drive home the "role playing" aspect of "RPG" that I alluded to in this video.
@@PretzelYT Yup, I'm excited to see more RP in Bethesda RPGs. And a modern RPG with an ultra massive open world is very exciting.
What would possibly believe a word Todd Howard says?
interesting video, given the way it's set up and the quality, i was suspecting this to be from a far larger channel :O keep up the good work
1:10 see that mountain back there? That's just a backdrop. No you can't go there
11:50 man, who'd've thunk that a massive procedural game from 1996 would have less points of interest than a massive procedural game from 2016 ;P
You should do this kind of thing with the game Fuel, it’s a 14,000 square kilometer racing game open world that is empty but has quite the beauty hidden in it
I think I've heard of that game before, I might check it out sometime. I love obscenely large game worlds that have a lot of empty space.
wonderful presentation and solid video, with subtitles to boot, very good
Sorry for nitpicking, I'm sure I'm not the first person to comment on this topic, but the sizes of world maps should be in square km. I don't know why that little detail got under my skin. Don't get me wrong, the video was great : )
Thanks, that makes sense. I'm not used to talking about geography and stuff like that, so it kinda slipped past me.
I think Breath of the Wild and its development are good examples to start with when thinking about what you need to generate a big world that's interesting. Two examples:
1) The in-game systems, like how electricity, metal, heat, air, and water interact organically. This lends meaning to arbitrary constructs because they impact the world
2) The development systems, with how they thought about e.g. world design. They think about short-term and long-term points of interest, and their visibility.
I think taking the development systems and turning them into actual procedural generation concepts could do what you're talking about!
Also - go play Dwarf Fortress, or watch someone play it, like somebody else said in a comment :)
funny thing is, Daggerfall is one of my favorite games, but for completely different reasons. I like the roguelike elements it gives you in the random dungeon crawling, the adventure and not knowing what loot you're going to find if you keep exploring.
That's not to say it has to be a *dungeon* though. Randomly generated overworlds can offer exactly the same experience, if they're made to. I would've really liked it if Daggerfall did give you more to randomly encounter up top, would give you a chance to enjoy the different skyboxes and environments, and maybe actually have a chance of running into the witch covens??
I've gone back and forth on Daggerfall for EXACTLY the reasons you outlined in this video. Unfortunately, I fear I'm no closer to figuring out how I feel about it. :D
The Cube World generation its great also!
Wayward Realms is where those developers who wished for deeper PCG ended up, btw.
It would be cool to see a Daggerfall style fallout game
I would LOVE that.
I'm curious how much Starfield will feel like Daggerfall. I remember they showed off a bunch more of that game right after I put this video out and it leans into procedural generation stuff more than I thought it would. I'm pretty excited for it.
Great video, didn't expect such a good production from such a small channel. You should check out the wayward realms, it's a game being developed by the og creators of the elder scrolls and is a spiritual successor to daggerfall. I guess it would be considered AA since they're going to be published by some studio(not decided yet).
I've definitely heard of Wayward Realms and it's on my radar. I hope the game picks up some steam in the coming years, it seems like development has gone really slow.
@@PretzelYT not really, they say it's going smoothly now. I know of stuff back in 2020/2019 being really slow though.
Good to hear! I'll keep an eye on their Twitter.
This was a great video! I'm glad you mentioned the Fallout 4 settlement mechanics because I feel the scope for your imagined Elder Scrolls game could work just as well for a Fallout spinoff.
You mentioned being able to 'hire' hunters and gathers to maintain your settlement and collect supplies. I put 'hire' in quotes because I think it would be an interesting RPG mechanic for NPCs to be willing to have different relationships with the player. Some NPCs might desire a professional relationship, exchanging their services for your money, but others could perhaps be willing to live under a principle of mutual aid. The economic system of the settlement could be determined by the player. How the player's settlement is run could have consequences similar to those in the game Democracy 3. An anarchist town might attract some negative attention from a nearby settlement that is run by a King, Emporer, or Lord. I'm sure these ideas could be expanded further. There are lots of concepts from strategy games like Civilization and Democracy which could enhance the role-playing aspect of settlement building in a procedurally generated world.
It would be interesting to see how advancements in AI could help create such a world. Character dialogue purely in text form works fine in older games, but modern audiences might not appreciate it in a modern release.
I've always wanted to develop a procedurally generated game but it's not entirely possible with the game engines I use.
Agan, this was a really great video and I'm glad it appeared on my suggested box. Keep it up!
I remember leaving a comment on another video where I said the thing I like about Skyrim is that there is always something new to discover, whether you're playing the Anniversary Edition or the OG one that came out in 2011. I can only imagine what there'd be to discover in a a game as massive as Daggerfall and quite frankly you've perked my interest in that.
I think part of why minecraft works so well as a procedurally generated world is that it's all blocks. No matter where you are, you're surrounded by blocks you can pick up, move around and craft with. Everywhere on the map you can start digging down and start searching for key resources - rather than having to run through a wilderness of side content to find the main content, you run through a forest of main content to find side content. Those fun structures you find exploring might hasten progression, but they're never required - you can get there however you want, wherever you want.
Hey I came across your channel randomly and gotta say I love some of your videos. Good analysis, production, and appreciation of games for what they are. Loved the comparison between Daggerfall and No Man's Sky. Hope to see more of your work in the future. :)
If Daggerfall had the modding community that the rest of the games had that empty space could be filled easily.
i've had this idea for a while, im a indie game developer, if i ever finish that project i'll let you know 😓
Starbound has a recruitment mechanic, as well as a tenant mechanic.
I don't think I played Starbound since they added that stuff. Unfortunately, I didn't really like the game's feel, so I doubt I'd stick with it anymore than I did before.
Excelent video!
Hope to see more soon!
Elite Dangerous is another Daggerfall-level PCG game with the game mechanics ABOUT the PCG. There's also standard mechanics for folks who dislike PCG.
you can combine random generated with handcrafted content, no need to be 100% one way or the other, like have some random generated barrens then add handcrafted elements to it or other way around, Skyrim have random encounters for example. Have a handcrafted city but mixed with random generated houses and NPCs to make it look big, GTA and Assasin Creed does that. You talk about Daggerfall but it's a super old game and random generation algorithms got a lot better over the years, watch some videos on Ultima Ratio Regum and Unexplored systems.
What if elder scrolls 6 is just daggerfall remastered?
🤯
Como fan de las sagas de bethesda, se que no es nuevo en la generacion procedural en sus juegos. Este video es como si hubieras hablado de Starfield, asi lo enfoque yo. Estaba buscando videos que precisamente hablaran sobre lo procedural de este videojuego y el tuyo me parecio perfecto porque tocaste mas juegos parecidos y los problemas que hay en cada uno de ellos, como sus ventajas. Eso es lo que quiero ver, como van a solucionar ese tipo de cosas en Starfield. Sabes que Todd es mentiroso, ah prometido muchas cosas en el futuro que nunca llegaron, el ya lo dijo con Starfield que habra lugares que literal "no habra nada", solo admirar la belleza del lugar. Se que el juego tendra muchisimos dialogos pero para un mundo tan grande esa cantidad se siente muy pequeña, por una parte me gusta que se hagan mundos asi de grandes porrque siempre hay "cosas nuevas que explorar" pero su desventaja es la soledad y que todo ya lo viste, luego tenemos juegos como rdr2 que por eso me encanto y lo amo, es un juego que no es grande ni pequeño, si bien el lugar esta casi desierto, no hay casa nada que visitar, la razon por la cual se siente tan vivo, es por todos los detalles que tiene , los climas, los animales, etc, eso es lo que lo hace sentir tan vivo, se que starfield no lograra eso ya que no tiene el mismo presupuesto que los juegos de rockstar games, pero realmente espero que el juego nos pueda dar todo eso y mas y si no lo hacen no importa ya que la comunidad de modding lo hara realidad eso y muchisimo mas, la desventaja es que eso no llegara de una noche a la mañana, tomara sus años para tener ese contenido, pero valdra la pena. Para Elder Scroll 6, yo siento que a la mejor lo procedural lo usaran en las cuevas, a la mejor el mismo o el doble del tamaño que skyrim, pero con 400 mil lineas de dialogo (siguiendo lo que hicieron con skyrim, fallout 4 y ahora starfield), a la mejor hacen el mundo muy vertical, aun el nivel de exploracion pero con muchisimas cosas, la verdad quien sabe, solo ellos sabran que haran, lo unico bueno es que muchas cosas de los mods ya las tomaron de inspiracion para su proximo juego (a parte de que son los mods mas descargas, lo cual les da a entender que eso es lo que quiere la gente es su proximo juego). Lo unico que se es que espero con muchas ancias el Starfield (desde que termino la conferencia solo espere unos minutos y ya pude comprar el juego en steam), estoy listo para la aventura.
this is a really great video! looks like the algorithm has swept you off your feet, good luck!
Thanks!! 😊
This is the first video in a while that TH-cam's picked up, I hope they'll look upon my next videos favorably. 🤞
@@PretzelYT Was just in my recommendations. Really enjoyed it! :)
I suggest the game Starflight, it's really amazing, and sounds roughly like what you're asking for.
Wayward realms is going to be so amazing…
Missed opportunity to mention modded minecraft
You gotta check on Wayward realms.
It'd definitely on my radar. Just waiting for the Kickstarter to see what they have to show off 😁
And now for the question. How does Starfield tickle our fancies?
I put this video out right before the showcase where they finally showed off some of Starfield. I don't know why, but I didn't actually expect them to seemingly lean so hard into the base-building/proc gen stuff that I talked about in this video.
The gunplay looked kinda rough, but I'm otherwise (somewhat) excited for it.
@@PretzelYT yeah, I'd imagine none of us did given the trajectory of their games. I'm cautiously interested although I do still have Elite Dangerous for this gametype. The gunplay does indeed look like Bethesda... which looks like I messed around in Unity and gave up after a few hours of tinkering with a bare bones library. But I don't play their games for smooth action.
"in real time, but sped up"
ok lol
like women say: Size doesn't matter
It's what and how you put in there.
have you played Kenshi?
I played like 5 hours of it like 4 years ago. Now that you bring it up, it does kinda mesh with the idea of a big empty world. I'd maybe like to do a VGWT episode on it, but I'd have to play a TON of the game before even thinking about that.
I feel like the procedural generation of Daggerfall takes away from the enticing lore of Elder Scrolls. The unique locations allow for better stories and more in depth characters. Everything in Daggerfall felt so inconsequential and bland. Not to mention the sheer frustration of finding a specific house in a city where everything looks the same or visiting the same generic dungeon where orcs happily coexist with vampires and tigers.
I feel like your perspective is what most people hold. Which is why I don't think they'll ever go back to a game like Daggerfall. Starfield seems to KINDA be going for something like it though, which is neat.
Starfield.
Cool channel
Modern Daggergall? Easy, dump the dumb dungeons. Dungeons should be replaced with farms, latifundium, ports, comercial hubs, fortress, barracks and watchtowers. Oh and mines, the real life "dungeons". And of course ROADS
I like your points but you act like people crafting a world is a bad thing
That's a fair criticism, I don't actually think that's the case. Maybe it came off that way though.
I'd just like to see some big player in the industry to just try a procedural world. Maybe it's a bad idea, but I'm curious to see if such a game would have mass-market appeal.
@@PretzelYT Yea that’s fine. And I’m glad you don’t think that. But you see. Making a program to randomly generate assets isn’t that hard. It’s making sure those assets can work with each other that makes things interesting and fun. It’s why minecraft is such a fun game. But if there was only single player in Minecraft then it would get boring pretty quickly because of how repetitive it can be. So In order for a randomly generated game to be successful it has to have assets and systems that work well with each other and multiplayer.