Ranting about Emergent Narrative in Daggerfall
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- When playing RPG video games, you'll eventually run out of pre-made quests and content to experience for the first time.
However, games like Daggerfall provide a great sandbox in which emergent narrative can guide your experience and lead to nearly infinite replay value. Your imagination is the limit.
Check out Adventure Art's video about character creation and roleplay restrictions in Daggerfall:
• Daggerfall CHARACTER C...
Some mods you'll see in this video:
Basic Roads
Travel Options
Interesting Eroded Terrain
Hills and Mountains
Climates and Calories
“Just doing some questing here in daggerfall” is just the most powerful opening to a video I’ve ever seen
😂😂
I read your comment exactly in time with this crazy powerful opening line and it hit me like a freight train lmao
#based
I don't get why this is based, can u explain?
Insanely powerful aura. His unwavering masculinity is terrifying to us weaker, lesser men.
My man YOU MUST make a video series of daggerfall from zero. That way you tell us why do you find so much fun in this game and how to have fun as well.
Don't tempt me with a good time! I'm putting together something like a roleplay enthusiast's guide to Daggerfall Unity, though I'm guessing that might take a while. If my current character dies I'll just start recording a Let's Play
@@micah_raygun_ GREAT! Then Ill just pray to Sheogorath your character just fucking dies! :D Just suscribed btw.
@@micah_raygun_a roleplay enthusiast's guide to Daggerfall Unity sounds so good man! As does the lets play! So looking forward to what you do next
I would love to see content like that too
No, i do not know, and you will stop asking me. @@micah_raygun_
I find the current generation teaches me all kinds of things. Today, you taught me the term "emergent narrative". I had to look that up and found out it's actually role playing! I played Daggerfall a year after it came out. Prior to that, I had played a couple of other role playing games. To me, role playing was THE way to play a ROLE PLAYING game. I had no idea people would cheat the game, make themselves invincible and power game. When I heard about that, I thought "why?" I have later come to realize that people who want to power game and min/max find fun in that. So ok. To each his/her/their own. For me, role playing was WHY I played the games. I created a character that had a bit of me in her, I made choices that were something I would choose if it was really me. I call it immersion. I loved jumping into another would for a while to be someone else, be a heroine and rich just by trying. I always make up rules for myself. In Oblivion, no fast travel, only travel during the day if possible. For Daggerfall, never kill the innocent people, steal, etc. I think these videos are great for your generation and younger. My own teen grandson told me recently that he LIKES the idea of RPGs but he doesn't' know what to do. You are talking to people your age HOW to play RPGs and why it's fun to role play. It comes better from you than an old retired person who people think we don't have brain cells left. Anyway, thank you for teaching me a new term!
rpgs turned into inventory management games at some point, turned into loot based games, now its just about getting all the loot
Based rpg grandma, wish I had a grandma like you
What a beautiful comment!
@@FingerSpazm it was a refreshing read indeed
Love the title of this video, I'm so tired of pretentious youtube titles like "THE SECRET GENIUS OF (game name)" or "(game name) CHANGED EVERYTHING", don't get me started on how the word 'masterpiece' has lost all its meaning. This video feels like it comes from a genuine place.
this video has actual soul put into it, that's the difference
yeah but those videos are more popular, and more popular = more intelligent and smarter and more gooder and more betterer
I love this video because this guy actually cares about what he's talking about. 99% of TH-camrs are just pumping out content, its slop. This isn't even the best video I've ever seen, but what matters is that he actually has passion.
The TH-cam algorithm actually worked today. Great video!
but this time its not a video from 2000
This video is a rare gem that one randomly comes upon at 3 AM and regrets not finding it sooner. As dungeon master myself, I feel like the modern approach to ttrpgs has differed a lot from what it used to be. Now it's almost completely plot-driven, the PCs are powerful from the start and at times it feels like you can't really challenge your players without getting criticized for being "too cruel". I miss the simplicity of older games when it was just friends playing together a game, exploring the world, handling obstacles and telling a story as it goes.
I'm not sure if there's any connection but nowadays I find more fun in playing Daggerfall and Morrowind than Skyrim or Oblivion (even though I'm a skybaby). Procedural generation lacks in quality, I'm not denying this, but there's something very enjoyable in knowing that each playthrough will differ from the previous one and the game won't babysit you, respecting your attention and ability to learn. Might be the reason why I remember my Morrowind characters and their journeys better than my Skyrim characters'.
Anyway, thank you for a good video!
I think you're right about the correlation between modern ttrpgs and the plots from TES 3 - 5.
Morrowind is the first TES game where the character became this messianic badass hero of prophecy. In DF you're just a nobody who, by coincidence, knows the emperor and would be well suited for some light spy work.
Games like D&D 3e - 5e and Pathfinder are all about following the plot that the DM has in mind, whereas older editions are characterized by having sandboxes with plots that the players can discover and choose to pursue.
You likely already know about this, but old school RPGs have a pretty good cult following these days. B/X has been made in Old School Essentials and there are endless other "retro clones" that can be vehicles to that gameplay you're describing.
Glad you enjoyed the video, stay tuned for more unscripted ramblings about RPGs and DFU!
Thiiissss. But still love Oblivion, wish it was more morrowind-like, but great game nevertheless hahae.
if i were you id do some research into the ttrpg ShadowDark, its very very based around ""cruel""
The makers of Daggerfall had the same idea as you. From the Daggerfall manual: The "Replay the Save Game" Strategy. Most computer gamers use the save game to maximize their playing ability. Any time something goes wrong, they return to a saved game and replay it until they get it right. The final history of their game looks like an endless streak of lucky breaks and perfect choices. Role playing is not about playing the perfect game. It is about building a character and creating a story...
Based Daggerfall manual enjoyer.
Yes, the bit in the manual is explicit in letting the player know that the experience will be more interesting and unique if they allow consequences to exist. I think the example given may have been for a thief getting arrested. And with how difficult thievery is in DOS DF you kind of get used to the guards coming for you lol
@@micah_raygun_ I keep a copy of my Daggerfall manual, big box and CD in the case next to my desktop computer and smile every time I sit down to it!
This doesn't work because the game isn't balanced and punishes the player for any mistake, so all these games turn into following the walk through guide instead of being fun. The way Morrowind levels up is absolutely insane, and the monsters level with the character. It's cancer. Reminds me of Mobile p2w games that you can't out level and pay money to keep treading water. Just stop. Don't make games annoying, just let the player play without punishing them and artificial difficulty. If you watch asmondgold, he's made some good commentary explaining it.
@@JohnDoe-ip3oq I don't know what to tell you boss, I haven't reloaded a save game except at the start of a session for years and I have a blast. I guess I'm doing something wrong lol
Also the enemies in Morrowind don't level up with the player in the sense of level scaling, which is how Oblivion works, that is just incorrect. Rather there are a few tiers of enemy types that will only appear once a certain threshold has been surpassed, while each type remains precisely the same regardless of your level. This is also how Daggerfall generally works, perhaps outside of a few scripted dungeon encounters in the main quest (its been awhile since I went through it).
As far as following a walkthrough, I don't know what that is about either, the games are all fairly self explanatory once you figure out the mechanics? Daggerfall is somewhat esoteric early on only because the main quests are mostly level-gated, so players who are used to being told precisely what to do and where to go don't realize that they are supposed to freelance and learn the games mechanics before the main quest begins, in most cases by being handed a letter that tells you exactly where to go and with whom to speak. If you need a walkthrough to play these games I can only assume that the type of game isn't for you; they are more than anything open-world sandbox environments where you can pursue anything you want to, with the main quests being optional for people who prefer a more linear style heroic save-the-world type experience.
There is also the notion that, you know perhaps different styles of games appeal to people differently? What to some might be annoying is to others an enjoyable challenge. I don't understand the hostility.
The aIgorythm didnt send me here but i came from the "You should be a youtuber video" from "NeatOnTheRocks" That was inspired by you so GG guys !
same !
Lol, same
😂 same here too
I love randomly finding daggerfall content especially good ones like this. Keep it up
Best game.
most raw youtube video
I'm only 28 minutes in but I've really enjoyed your directed ramblings on emergent narratives. Several things you mentioned reminds of what I've learned from reading the book "Designing Games: A Guide to Engineering Experiences" written by the developer of Rim World (Tynan Sylvester). I highly recommend it to other people interested in emergent events/narratives
That's one for my list! Thanks for the recommendation
Seeing this many comments on a channel with 2 videos that seemingly popped up out of nowhere is surreal. I see some people already mentioned the algorithm, but it's really comforting to stumble into a little oasis in all the slop youtube usually throws at me. Thanks for making this video, I really enjoyed hearing your perspective.
12:22 Bro what is that disgusting sound in the background
Sounds like someone taking a mean fucking shit lmao
I'm pretty new to daggerfall, have tried getting into it a year ago, didn't work out, tried it again this week and so far I can't stop playing. I'm still learning new things, playing an unarmed antimagic lycanthrope monk who's pretty strong at this point.
When I first got to the city of Daggerfall right from the starting dungeon, I decided I wanted to join the fighters guild to earn a some income and get some benefits but they declined me. I thought if I do some free quests for them they'd let me in eventually. 5 or so quests later, I laughed at the fact that it kinda looks like they're using my character to just get free work, so I roleplayed that I got pissed off and went to join the Knights of The Dragon instead, who let me in instantly and actually got me some useful benefits.
It's moments like that I don't really see in newer games as much, as a lot of the stories are preset and linear and after a while even the choices are either redundant or repetitive after a few playthroughs. This moment I had was completely based on my character and stats, which weren't enough to join the fighters guild, but to me it looked like they were just using me, then in doing those free quests, my reputation grew enough to join the Knights of The Dragon.
Yeah, Daggerfall is really one of those games where your failures is what really makes your character. It's when something goes completely sideways and you have to discard your original plans and make a new plan from this new position that you get interesting character stories.
Newer RPGs, like Skyrim, when you look back at your characters story it can be summed up as "I won at everything I attempted and then I won at some things I did not even attempt. The end." :D
@@RalzarExactly, just recently, I found the lycanthropy to get more annoying over time, having to store my gear away in preperation for the full moon (still managed to lose it somehow), then needing to make plans to travel to the Glenmoril Coven.
There is not much handholding and you will suffer losses. There's not many benefits without a cost or limit and that's what is magical.
This is exactly how I play the game these days. I come up with some concept that is possible to express through the character creator and ingame playstyle and then just see where that takes me.
For example, atm I am playing a Scholar Of Julianos. He has no magica, but high INT and most of his skills are magic schools. He specializes in using magic items, while having no abilty to cast magic himself. I am a bit surprised the class even worked out, but I just hit lvl13 and got access to the magic item crafting service in Julianos temples.
I have earlier played a dillettante high elf noble that always used "Polite" to everyone and only did quests for nobles.
A barbarian that never joined guilds, always spoke Blunt and whenever he leveled up wasted all his money on drinks.
A fire mage, where I only crafted specific fire-themed spells.
A dark elf Knight Of The Rose who only did quests for the nobles of Wayrest.
etc.
Once you make some roleplay limitations for yourself, the game gets way more interesting and you end up in a lot more weird situations where you have to get creative to survive.
Ah the in-game character creator, there's literally nothing like it. I love how things like the reputation levels and language skills can flesh out how you play a character.
Those characters sound really cool! It's actually a bit uncanny, I was just thinking of making an "artificer" who can't cast magic but studies and uses magical items like your Scholar of Julianos. Out of curiosity, how did you build out the Scholar's non-magic skills?
I'm torn between making the artificer a linguist, a thief, a warrior, or some blend.
@@micah_raygun_I made him a combined Julianos/Archaeologist concept. So basically his role in the temple is to find mystical artefacts in dungeons. I gave him Blunt Weapon as a Primary skill, so he uses a staff to fight off enemies when not casting magic. As a major skill I took Ettiquette just because I imagined him as a very aloof scholar (he also has PER 40), so he is no good at talking to common folk.
The trick was really managing to get an offensive magic item to let me fight properly. I think I found a Jade Of Force Bolt in a pawn shop and after that everything just went pretty much fine. I still have that jade, as well as one for Firball and a talisman of Ice Storm.
@@Ralzar okay cool, that sounds like a lot of fun! There's an d&d thief archetype focused on being able to use magic items without being a caster that I'm thinking of emulating with a character.
This is off topic, but out of curiosity have you ever completed the DF main quest without dying? Trying to ask this to other players who I know do Ironman playthroughs
@@micah_raygun_ Hm, good question. I don't think so, but it's hard to say. I usually play with the Ironman Options set to doing a permanent save when resting to full health. So I can't say for sure if I might have had to load back to that at some point.
@@Ralzar I usually don't do the main quest more than once in TES games, though Daggerfall's is nice and relatively non-committal, but I'd really like to clear the game without dying.
My bandit is level 13. I got the soul of a lich last night. If I can make it through Castle Llugwych I'll have a new high score 🤞
I like playing Elder Scrolls "Hardcore":
-One life (Die=Delete)
-Random Class, Random Race, Random Sign
-No fast travel
-Up to 3 hours rest per day, Minimum 6 hours when sleeping
-Other smaller rules
It makes the games a ton more challenging and engaging
Really respect your commitment to roleplay
#based immersion chad. I do the same thing when I play vidya games😏
Sometimes I like to make characters where if I die I cannot play them for 24 hours.
Have done this in Elderscolls, Darksoul games, and its a nice way to space… Amps up the intensity too.
Hey I used the randomization too! It's a fun way to shake things up. I used to have a chart in Oblivion that had goals for each class written down.
The character that broke this system rolled The Lord birthsign. That gives a powerful healing ability that makes the character way too viable lol
zased
@@micah_raygun_ Definitely, like you said, if your intent is to powergame, you can make anything work. My first (and only) "win" has been on a stealth archer lol.
That being said, The Lord is strong but in Oblivion you can feel the downside quickly. Kvatch is a major hurdle for any playthrough and the amount of fire damage in an Oblivion gate is immense
I love your rambles, they have such good content when I'm awake and I replay them to fall asleep to, something about the mic quality just gives it that je ne sais quoi
You've single handedly reforged my interest in RPGs. I should try Daggerfall. Thanks for your video! I hope you make more.
Just wanted to say that rant type videos on rpg subjects are amazing content ! Keep it up I'm really into morrowind but would love to get into daggerfall
You my man are a breath of fresh air in terms of lets plays. Great content here
Great "from the hip" vid. I love rambling commentaries like these. I mean rambling in a very good way, of course :-)
I really love this. So many points resonate with me. I recently made a new daggerfall character who is a powerful wizard but she has critical weakness to disease, poison, and paralysis. So she's this frail sickly person who overcomes that with her magic. However this makes her susceptible to lycanthropism and vapirism, which could become a huge panic moment (but a fun narrative moment) if she winds up contracting that.
I just finished my first Morrowind MQ run - played it on and off for a few years and recently really got back into it. It's been talked about so much with the older ES games, but the emergent gameplay really makes those games special. I reached a point in Morrowind where I was essentially creating my own quests to seek out artifacts and items to enchant and strengthen my character to really fit into the Nerevarine role of being a god, and it was SO much fun. Listening to this video has given me some more ideas for future characters. I've also flirted with the idea of trying Daggerfall for a while and just haven't taken the plunge, but this video sealed the deal for me. Awesome video, really enjoyable to listen to and get some ideas from. An aside - there's a channel called Dalko that you remind me of. He plays beta minecraft and just talks about aspects of the game he likes in an unscripted manner. It's a really nice form of content, just hanging and chatting. Looking forward to whatever you rant about next!
Hey no kidding, even though I don't play much Minecraft I found Dalko's channel a couple weeks ago and have been watching it a lot. Maybe he influenced these videos more than I consciously realized.
Morrowind is also great at providing loads of opportunities for roleplay and emergent narrative. I hope you enjoy DFU when you give it a try! Take it easy and focus more on making a character with at theme that you enjoy rather than optimizing 👍
Honestly, one of my biggest issues with roleplay, whether that's in D&D or Daggerfall: I can't remove myself. I have a hard time thinking about how my character might react or what their goals might be, because I am myself and I can't not think outside my own head.
This isn't to say I lack empathy, but I just can't put myself in the characters shoes and retune my brain to think as they might. I might be able to do it for short periods, but eventually, my own brain takes over.
I just like to self insert.
Yeah I always default to optimization no matter how hard I try to stick with a story or limitation, simply because 99% of games encourage it by default
Oh god, I found my autistic brethren, amazing. Would legit watch a whole series of this.
Roleplay autism is such a cool flavor of autism 😎
Commenting for algorithm. Thank you for uploading.
Found this by way of a neat on the rocks videos, like what you're doing :)
For me, the elder scrolls games kind of stink for emergent narrative, with the only real stuff i remember as emergent narratives being exclusively when the game broke in some spectacular way, like playing skyrim together with friends, suddenly all of whiterun was pissed at me when i entered dragonsreach, and i suddenly noticed our questmarker to see the jarl was moving around. i turned around, and lo and behold, there was the jarl, leading the angry mob and attacking me. none of the other stuff from that game or really any of the other games except for morrowind and daggerfall ever felt like the game itself was giving me emergent narrative, because the game was bending over backwards to make sure that not only CAN i do anything and everything, the game basically begs you TO do anything and everything, to the point where there is no feeling of specialization, nor a feeling as though my character is an actual character, and its especially apparent in skyrim. Everyone's skyrim character ultimately is the same, they are all the dragonborn who saves skyrim and the world from alduin's ruin, becoming the leader of the dark brotherhood, the thieve's guild, the mage's guild, the companions, and either the imperials or the stormcloaks, while being the housecarl to every single jarl in the province. it's too shallow and prevents me from being able to really take things seriously if i can become the head of the college of winterhold as a braindead barbarian who casted only one spell during the entire questline.
daggerfall on the other hand, i've already had multiple emergent stories come about from my gameplay. I was challenged by some friends to the tune of a few hundred bucks to travel from the very beginning of the game over in privateer's hold to the capital of kairou in hammerfell without using fast travel. I sure as hell did it, but it took me a month, and while there really wasn't much to it, my character did eventually kinda build up as i learned to use spells to cast to light my path, fought off enemies during rest periods at night, taking shelter at inns i found along my way. in a major way for that experience though, just seeing the landscape change and understanding where i was and how far i had come really sold the journey, and it reminded me of times i had taken particularly long road trips with my family across the US.
with my second character, i decided to actually play the game properly, and so i made a redguard knight, who intended to be knighted in the barony of dwynnen, which he did. he fought for those who needed it, and his presence was enjoyed by both commoner and noble alike. slowly, over time, he began to fight more and more werewolves, and would find himself known as something of a werewolf hunting knight rather than just a normal one. however, during one of the dungeons i was clearing, i noticed that i had become infected with lycanthropy, and began the process of becoming a werewolf myself. this slowly took a toll on the character, as his health was drained from not killing an innocent. with time, his health was insanely low, but his strength was much improved, and so he made the difficult decision to sneak away to another kingdom, to slay an innocent in some small settlement, and quench his bloodthirst. in that way, my character was now a knight known for hunting werewolves by day, but harbored a darker secret of being a werewolf by night. only those who paid for werewolf hunters knew the secret, and so i would be assailed frequently in dungeons and on the roads, but i would strike them down and keep my head down to keep this secret hidden.
none of that shit did i ever experience even a single sliver of in all my time playing any of the elder scrolls games past morrowind, and for that reason, i just don't enjoy them, and i find daggerfall to be my favorite of the entire franchise. i think my problem with the newer games stem from the lack of limitation and the way that if you want to have some amount of character to your character, you have to manually put constraints on how you play, and after a while, the thought will strike me in the middle of playing that if i'm doing that, well, its not even something done by the game itself and there's legitimately nothing stopping me from doing that, so the character is just a facade. it kills the entire thing for me, because the game has nothing to act as reflective of a character you want to make, and so whatever character your character has is limited to the armor they wear, the weapons they use, whether they use magic or not, and then their race and the facial customization you made. its a damn shame to me.
Speaking of emergent narratives, I notice your pfp is from tear ring saga. Those old Kaga games are really interesting from a gameplay narrative perspective, and I'd definitely be interested to hear you talk about them.
Good eye! Samson was an absolute monster in my blind playthrough of TRS. I'm not sure I have the expertise in those games to talk at length about them like I would with DFU, but I might record my blind playthrough of Berwick Saga if nothing else. Even though it will be a huge mess and actual Berwick players will seethe as I miss everything lol
@@micah_raygun_That'd be a great watch!
is this the same Micah_Raygun i use to chat with on Adventure Art's videos????!!!
Yoooo Saxon you found me! Yep, the Adventure Art hiatus made me crave some DFU content, but I don't really enjoy a lot of stuff that's out there aside from Adventure Art. So I'm taking matters into my own hands 😂
@@micah_raygun_ Good man, I look forward to watching your content.
As for Adventure Art, I miss that guy, I hope he is doing alright.
I'm sorry, *role-playing?* In *MY* Role-Playing Games?
I think not
Highly recommend trying this play style if it clicks it’ll change the way you think about gaming. Been enjoying it since I was like 14-15
Just realized when you were looking for bows at the start here: Are you using my Order Service mod? Pretty handy to be able to order custom weapons, armor and clothes for an increased price instead of having to just click all shelves in the town in the hopes the RNG hits right.
Yep! It's pretty handy. The character in this video mostly used an adamantium mail hauberk all throughout the endgame. Got it from an order and it lasted through the MQ
Very good video. Finishing Daggerfall is still a pending assignment for me. I'm more of a Morrowind guy myself as I've been playing it since release but I still own my CD copy of Daggerfall and never got around to going beyond the second Main Quest.
I’ve become burned out on video essays but something about the more casual form of this with the mouse and keyboard sounds was really compelling!!
this was really relaxing to listen to and watch. i hope you make more videos :D
Randomly stumbled across your videos and I enjoyed them both. Would like to see more if you're up for it.
Oh I'm up for it! Now that I know that there's an audience for this sort of thing I'll be recording and uploading as much as my schedule allows
God I miss content like this, yeah it's not formal but that kinda has it's own charm.
Hardcore Daggerfall run?! The most cultured player
I like what you said about flawed/unoptimal characters, it's really easy to break Daggerfall's class creation and that's what most people end up doing once they know how to but I've been having fun lately just playing a stock-standard, pregen Knight which is something I've never done
(yes, this does mean no recall magic)
It’s funny, the way you talk about playing Daggerfall just kinda sounds like Ultima Underworld. Underworld and UWII are more systems based and have a lot of emergent gameplay. Curious if you enjoy those or if you’d prefer the freedom of Daggerfall and would rather limit your character yourself.
I only started playing Elder Scrolls a couple of years ago. Ironically the game that pulled me in the most was not Skyrim, Oblivion or Morrowind, it was Daggerfall Unity. It's still not a game I will put hundreds of hours into, but it's the most memorable time I had with the series.
I just realized I was sitting through this mesmerized for 45 minutes! haha Something about the combination of watching someone play Daggerfall effortlessly while listening to a calmly delivered college level thesis got me hooked!
Man, this is a great video, I'm glad it popped up in my algorithm, wanted to comment to help boost you further. I really like your delivery and style, laid back but still thoughtful.
I don't play TES, but this is explicitly how I play souls games. I think applying limitations and building a character that makes sense within the logic of the world really does a lot to keep you engaged with both gameplay and lore. I really like your comments about how this has a rich literary tradition in fantasy too. Fully agree. I hope that people watching will consider approaching rpgs this way too, it really can richen the experience
The next era of TH-cam is here. Love this video.
Oh yea, these are the kinda videos that make the hours go by at work. That's an instant subscription!
Elder Scrolls games had potential to become proper RPGs but unfortunately most players perfer playing something that simply presents itself as one without ever taking advantage of or even implemting enough RPG elements to itself to be more than an open world action game. Not once during all the hundreds of hours and tens of characters I made when I used to play Skyrim did I ever feel like I was playing a character of my own making with a story that could be distinguishable from anything other people played. To think people will come up with these elaborate stories for their characters in complete absence of opportunities within the game itself only to trun around and praise the game for this is absurd and saddening to say the least.
Neat topic, haven’t finished yet but bookmarking :)
Would you ever be interested in doing a video going over daggerfall/unity settings suggestions and mods for newcomers?
I’m really enjoying your content so far and the passion you have for daggerfall. Keep it up!
That kind of video is next on my to-do list. Glad you're liking the content so far!
I really appriciate your perceptive. Rollplay restrictions can be somewhat empowering. Overcoming personal flaws with a character that is similarly flawed can feel quite good.
also
"sometimes the mistakes we make are more interesting than simply succeeding" Great quote
Subbed for Daggerfall content
This just appeared in my recomended and I got hooked
A cool way I found to play Skyrim is to use the PROTEUS mod and make many characters, alternating between them for certain styles of play. It's a bit janky, but you can have certain characters playing through certain faction storylines and enforce roleplaying restrictions without giving up game content. Plus you can recruit your own characters as followers if you need some help for a tough dungeon or quest.
Great video. I feel these types of RPGs greatly reward creativity. My favorite thing about RPGs in general is being able to bring characters I imagine to life, even if in a kind of limited way. I think a game fails as an RPG when it doesn't allow you to do this, whether with systems or with roleplaying decisions by the player.
rare w youtube for popping this up in my recommended, can't wait for more
I have a “shitty bill” character I have played that MUST IMMEDIATELY use all drugs and alcohol and MUST steal all he can to buy more drugs and alcohol. So because of that he’s wearing shitty cheap clothes and used only like a kitchen knife and sells all other loot for money to buy drugs and alcohol. If he has no money he MUST steal drugs and alcohol
This is like an exact style of video I wanna make really bad and this helps a lot with feeling confident that people may actually find it interesting to watch. Great video, thanks for sharing this
Please go out there and make it! Evidently being passionate is half the battle.
@@micah_raygun_ Yeah I really wanna just ramble about stuff I love and why, but wasn't sure if anyone would care to really listen lol. It's so cool to see you do that man, keep it up.
This makes me think of Hardcore mode in Fallout New Vegas. It wasn't totally game changing or fleshed out but it made me more immersed on multiple playthroughs. Keeping track of sleep, food, water and more difficult healing added a little nice touch for the Role Playing experience
I never actually finished the main questline of Oblivion until I made restrictions to my character. I always used to play stealth archer with alchemy to make poisoned arrows. Needless to say, the game was easy and boring - so I always quit halfway through. When I decided to make an Orc trained in Heavy Armor aspire to become a mage while also hating the Mage's Guild, it was really fun.
One game that does this super well is Kenshi. There are no quests, yet plenty of stories that emerge, as a result of the interaction of several game systems and clever world design.
E.g. I was starving ---> so I stole some food ---> I got caught and sent to a slave mining camp ---> I escaped and became a refugee ----> and so on and so on.
Mount and blade is another classic though more genre hybrid than Kenshi
Today I watched the story of torso man in the world of Kenshi on youtube, thought I'd seen it all, LOL
@@8484terry You can do just about anything in Kenshi, but the hardest thing to do is argue that you've *won* to someone.
You don't ever get a "You win!", you never get a real pat on the back and whatever you do you can't really bring peace to the planet Kenshi occurs on. You could help the holy nation, or could pick ninjas, or could just be a smuggler, but no matter what you do you're a small part and the world is so *irreparably shattered* that nobody can really fix it.
Heck, the only reason why Torsolo ended was because the guy whom made the story told what he wanted to. And I think that's part of the hidden charm of Kenshi. It never was about the destination; it was about what you did to get to where you *thought* you were going.
@@Journeyman107 Modded warband especially the big ones like GoT mod you can have some crazy stuff happening
@@Grandmaster-Kush What're some mods you recommend? Haven't really delved into the scene since high school in like 2013 I'm sure it's come a long way even though it was fantastic then
This video was blessed by the algorithm ;D Subscribed for more ranting, keep it up!
I think you would like Kenshi. That game is the best I’ve played in terms of emergent narrative, and also allows for a ton of creativity in roleplaying. You can run solo, or run a squad, or run an empire. It has very satisfying character progression, and part of that is actually getting your ass handed to you and there are always moments where you can lose it all. You can also become extremely powerful but it’s hard and takes a lot of time, planning, research, manpower, exploration, and so on. Your character also isn’t special in the game, you matter just as much as any NPC, can die just as easily, you start off as a hobo nobody and have to build your character and squad from scratch. Its also one of those games you can tweak to your likings with settings and mods
TH-cam actually showing me cool dudes? Amazing. Thanks for the vid.
Watching someone who knows what they know well talk about it is so nice
I wish more gamers had your mentality. Especially with games like RPGs and pretty much anything open world, the player needs to take some responsibility for their own fun, it's not 100% the devs' responsibility. In competitive multiplayer games, you are forced to pick from the best strategies, but in single player and co-op games you should be picking things that make the game more fun for you.
When you ask your high friend what he’s playing
Thank you youtube algorithm! I really like your videos so far, like to listen in the background :]
Great stuff! I would definitely watch content from you of all the elder scrolls games
If you role play as a guy who cheats his way to the end, you also cheat yourself out of the gameplay. 🤷
Usually don't watch videos this long, especially for a game i haven't played since i was a kid but i watched until the end. Very interesting video. I do a lot of what you say and learned a little bit too!
Hey thanks for making this man. I like your commentaries, happy you decided to put em on TH-cam.
Great video, it's given me a lot to think about playing through daggerfall. Usually I don't get too much into the role playing, but this has given me some new fun ideas.
I clicked on this thinking Id listen for a few minutes and boom I looked over at 38 minutes and was bummed it was almost over! Great Rant awesome stories, instant sub click!
i really enjoy this, pls make more content along this line
Best time I have ever had in an Elder Scrolls game, was riding my horse while using levitate and throwing fireballs down on a city like a maniac. WHY did they take out flight/levitate out of the game. Such a wonderful effect on gameplay style/potential
Power gaming in an RPG always seemed like the lamest most boring thing you could do to yourself. There is a reason it's called *RP* G.
Cool concepts about old-school RPGs: I was initially attracted to Daggerfall because of the similarities to that kind of emergent role-playing experience. For a long while I've tried to resculpt the 5th edition to make it more similar to the stories of Conan, Elric, Fafhrd, Cugel... Then I discovered the OSR. Been pondering on that for years while wrapping up other RPG campaigns, then decided to give it a go and we just started a Black Sword Hack campaign: much more Elric than Conan to my dismay, but we're having fun nonetheless. No plot, just situations: the rest is done by improv and apophenia.
Using fast travel is like taking the meat out of your burger and just eating the bun 😅
Love this talk, I've been thinking of games this way more in my 20's. The rare times I've been immersed in this way are moments forever remembered. I could also try getting excited when things start going wrong instead of feeling frustration.
Interesting video to hear! I have played Skyrim, Oblivion and the Fallout games of Bethesda and i pretty much agree with all your gameplay comentary about flawing your character in a specific way, it helps to get more in-character experience and roleplay as such. Have you played other classics of RPG such as Arena or Daggerfall?
I noticed when I achieve a Demi god or guild master status I always start tripping over small shit like organizing my player home and then end up abandoning the save file. A smaller character like a bandit, mercenary, or vampire hunter is way more enjoyable than becoming the übermensch master of all guilds demigod thane of every hold, trying to figure out which armor to use. With the Demi god character it’s hard to define the character with armor.
Thats how all of my skyrim playthroughs end is minmaxing, becoming a demigod, then eventually start “roleplaying” by building my character home and all that stuff, but getting bored once ive finished questlines. It’s two different kinda of fun, its like difference between action games and roleplaying. Games like doom or something like that is better for action, just playing to play, whereas elder scrolls is best enjoyed by roleplaying
It’s wild that I got recommended this video the day after I was thinking about how Oblivion limits the Oblivion Gate Crisis to story progression and how it’s a trade off between player experience and narrative.
Play DaggerFall MMO , called Mortal Online 2
Great video, I never put a name to it but emergent Narratives have definitely been some of my funniest experiences in games
This was really interesting to listen to at work whilst missing my Daggerfall play through! You play and think exactly like me; one thing I do short of Ironman is I have a rule of no trial and error gaming; so if I die say in a dungeon I have to leave, I can only go back if there’s a really good reason for thinking it would be different eg five levels higher or got loads more resources ready.
That's awesome, what you're describing is basically how I play my non-Iron man characters when I get the urge to not have to lose progress on death. Dying is more like failing a quest/dungeon--it's like that timeline becomes cursed, so the character has to take an alternate course of action
@@micah_raygun_ha cool that’s it.. I hope you record more of your thoughts, we both started with oblivion and are now juggling Daggerfall and parenting, not easy! And you made me want to turn off smaller dungeons after I listened to your other video ha you’re right, it’s a mindset thing, don’t go in trying to “clear” it just go as far as you can before turning back and trying another!
@@danparker3093Kindred spirits! Lol. A fun gimmick to try regarding the smaller dungeons setting--go into the menus and toggle smaller dungeons on/off repeatedly while covering the checkbox with your hand, then click save. This way neither you nor your character to know if the dungeon you're exploring in that session is huge or moderate.
I don't always play like this since it can conflict with Persistent Dungeons if you end up going back to the dungeon after changing the setting again, but it's a neat thing to try once in a while.
Not sure how old your kid(s) is, but I hope they're doing well!
As someone who grew up playing oblivion and loving it, so far, I really appreciate this video. I loved oblivion because I thought it was much more expansive than it really was, and the illusion worked as a kid who'd usually play noble characters. It was only when I attacked lucien lachance, assuming I'd be able to take on the brotherhood, that the mirage broke. The game said he was unconscious, which I came to understand meant: "This character can't be killed now." At that point, the world felt a lot less open. When I went to play Fallout NV, I loved that they let me kill whomever I pleased. It made the world actually feel real, at least to me.
I managed to lock myself in a dungeon once. Had to climb a long well shaft with a low climbing skill (didnt have levitate, didnt know I had to recast the anchor). When I finally reached the top, it was locked by a trapdoor. Couldnt find the switch anyware, so in the end my character (or at least one incarnation) is still down there, probably haunting the place. Could be straight out of a Fritz Leiber book, it's so much more entertaining when the hero is kind of incompetent and forgetful, or just has bad luck.
this is what people actually mean when they say video essays are art, not the kinds with electropop over imovie transitions
I hope you keep doing rants to Daggerfall. Videos like these help me get through the work day
I'll be releasing discussion videos about whatever TES game strikes my fancy, but I don't think I'll run out of things to say about Daggerfall so you can count on many more to come c:
Shameless plug: check out my Daggerfall Iron manLets Play for more background music while you work
Love to see this kind of Daggerfall content. Instant sub 👍
Will you play Dragon's Dogma 2?
This video appeared in my recommended. Great channel, man. I enjoyed watching both of your videos and hope for more.
unity was a blessing to this game
I love this style of video, it’s so refreshing after so many scripted “X game is a masterpiece” Keep it up man good work
Got this recommended on a Zhakaron Daggerfall vid Lel. Good vid, will definitely look forward to more my good sir!
I quite enjoy Zarics videos myself
This vid had such chill vibes!
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Your channel is a wealth of valuable insight, not only on roleplay in old-school gaming, but in TTRPGs as well--my two favorite subjects. By any chance do you plan to release any videos specifically on old-school TTRPGs?
Also, I just gotta add that I love the cozy, down-to-earth nature and complete lack of pretentious with your videos.
I don't think I'm in a position to make videos about TTRPGs as I'm not much of an expert and my schedule doesn't really allow for any games outside of the occasional hour or two spent at my computer.
If you're looking for that kind of content, you might like Bandit's Keep or 3d6 Down the Line
Ahh, that's a shame! Nonetheless, totally understandable! I'm more than happy with your Daggerfall videos as-is, so no complaints here. :D
And I'm actually quite a fan of both of them already!@@micah_raygun_
I will always burn out of Skyrim in ten minutes (or Oblivion but to a lesser degree) unless I absolutely screw it up with immersion-breaking mods. Daggerfall, on the other hand, never really gets old, even despite the repeat quests & bugs. And of course, with DFUnity, I can add mods to make it *even more* immersive or fun.
I'm happy to see more people these dayz ranting about this subject.
Roleplaying aside i dont think i could handle no mark and recall
I feel the same way. One of the mods I use, I think it's roleplay and realism-items, adds a potion of teleport which casts Mark/Recall on use.
Certain enemies like vampires can be a death sentence if you don't have a way to warp back to safety.
I really enjoyed your video! Daggerfall is a game I revisit on average at least once annually, and have for over two decades. The Unity version heavily modded is how I mostly play it these days, though I keep a copy of it and the original game (bugfixed with the CompUSA quests patched in) on my computer and my Steam Deck. Morrowind was my favorite Elder Scrolls game prior to the Unity version and the modding renaissance, but until then Daggerfall had always been just about tied for that spot for me. There were actually a few other games that came out during that era that are comparable in scale and visionary freedom, such as Fate: Gates of Dawn or Legends of Valour, but none are as endlessly replayable, forward thinking in design and in-depth as Daggerfall. I often marvel at how radically the Elder Scrolls has changed over the years, to the point where the first three main entries and Battlespire (the only "side" game I genuinely like) and games like Oblivion, Skyrim and ESO don't even seem to belong to the same series. It is always interesting to me to listen to people who weren't able to play the older games when they were new share their perspectives on them, having come at them backwards with the newer games as entry points. Similar with Fallout, which I also adored in the 90s. The freeform nature of Daggerfall with the incredible character creation system allows for roleplaying at so broad an extent of possibilities that I never tire of returning to it.
I'm so glad you enjoyed the video!
I think the series had a lot of radical design changes between each iteration, but the differences are much more glaring when you pick up Oblivion or Skyrim. I love those games too, but these days when I play them I simply get the urge to play DFU lol.
On a related note, Fallout 1 and 2 were extremely well done. If you haven't heard of it, I recommend checking out Adventure Art's "The Beast" playthrough of Fallout 1. It's a low INT character that perfectly illustrates how well that game's roleplay elements are handled.
@@micah_raygun_ I've not heard of that, thank you for the recommendation! I've done low INT characters in the past and they are handled in that game better than any other attempt I've ever seen!
But you're right about the changes between each Elder Scrolls game, for instance I can recall the disappointment I had in Morrowind when I saw how many skills had been removed, and the way an entire magicka school was done away with. Obviously implementing things like climbing are easier in a game restricted to first person perspective, but the gutting of the reputation system, or the ability to appear in court for instance were so integral in making Daggerfall feel much grander than it appeared visually.
I've modded the Elder Scrolls games and Fallout games countless times over the years, including Oblivion and Skyrim despite my overall negative feelings towards them, and I really do think that with the Unity version and the incredibly talented group of modders gathered around it have turned Daggerfall into the best roleplaying game of all time. And now that it has reached 1.0 and future updates ought no longer render mods backwards incompatible, the future is wide open with potential. When I saw now out-dated mods for the first time like Mountains & Hills, Distant Terrain, or mods still viable like World of Daggerfall, Basic Roads, Travel Options, Climates & Calories etc I was astonished and hadn't felt that way since Morrowind had its first major wave of revival mods years ago. I could go on and on about these things forever, but I don't want to write overmuch and be a bother, just glad to have gotten to talk with another fan and enjoy hearing your perspective through your videos. Take care!