An Unbiased Debunking of Milk Myths? (Response to How to Cook That Ann Reardon)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2024
- My thoughts on “Debunking Milk Myths” by How to Cook That (aka Ann Reardon).
0:00 - Intro
2:39 - Cow Welfare
10:13 - Nutrition (Silly Calcium Comparisons)
22:09 - Saturated Fat
22:28 - Allergies and Intolerances
22:47 - Environmental Impact
26:18 - Closing Thoughts on Bias
Anne’s video
• Should you stop drinki...
Ethical Milk: Is it possible and what would it cost?
• Ethical Milk: Is it po...
Will farm animal species go extinct if the world goes vegan? If so, does it matter?
• Will farm animal speci...
My discussion of “waste” products cows eat (13:10)
• What I've Learned Does...
If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares
ourworldindata.org/land-use-d...
Drivers of Deforestation
ourworldindata.org/drivers-of...
Healthy Eating Plate
www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritio...
Calcium Primer ( The Vegan RD)
www.theveganrd.com/vegan-nutr...
Environmental Impacts of Food Production
ourworldindata.org/environmen...
Support an Effective Animal Charity
animalcharityevaluators.org/
Support the Channel
Patreon: / unnaturalvegan
Amazon Store Page: www.amazon.com/shop/unnatural...
Shirts: teespring.com/stores/unnatura...
Socials (that I rarely use)
Twitter: / unnaturalvegan
Instagram: / unnaturalvegan
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Still not a vegan, but you made me eat more tofu and beans plus pnut butter instead of meat. I like your honesty and your really good arguments. You rock!
what's stopping you from going vegan?
If you eating peanut butter for protein switch to PB2 it’s higher in protein 80% less fat while normal peanut butter is just fat calories and is low protein
@@benny.pepper stop
@@pep_z780 are you talking to yourself? inquiring about someone's veganism is completely fine
@@alexkaapa STOP
MattPatt actually responded to comments and to that video and how actually... They are both right, and how hard it is to compare things and how data is hard to convey and they show the sources. And how it spiraled that it was two sentences in original video, that got 3,5 minutes of response, that now got a 20 minutes explain video. And he really apologized for putting cabbage instead of kale
The parts of the Food Theory wasn't the main point of the video. The video was mainly about if so much of adults are lactose intolerant, how it is so imprinted in our brains that milk is healthy and 'we need it', and what they are tackling more of the milk industry propaganda and how it impacted our views and how they can be not current as some of them were made back when we had worse access to food and different needs after WW2. It's a format, their thumbnails are always over the top, and the montage is a part of the style, that pictures are 'generic'
I clicked off her video when she started talking about how cruel factory farming practices are illegal in Australia, a common misconception and shield a lot of Australians use too hide behind- our undercover footage is just as violent and shows people mistreating the animals daily.
@@MdoubleHBxx err none of that here. I clicked off Ann’s video. I Stan them both!
@@MdoubleHBxx I know you're not going to respond, but you made very inflammatory claims with absolutely no scientific backing behind it. You are very combative and a literal sociopath. You are not better than everyone else and seriously need counseling for your aggression.
Also, how the hell do you think you'll achieve all animals to be vegan? You know this will kill off something like 75% of all species on earth, right? Your understanding of animal physiology is fundamentally flawed and incomprehensible.
She's the worst
You haven't even looked at the laws.
@@evilspiritchild I have indeed. What a weirdly confident comment. The rspca are pretty powerless when it comes to ‘farm’ or ‘produce’ animals and tbh, even if the laws were radically different (they aren’t, I’ve read them) the footage is just as horrendous and cruel. Soo….
If I had the space I would love a pet cow, honestly. They're just such sweet little babies and when they love you, you know it!
Edit; if you have any extra space, grow some veggies! Kale grows like a weed and can be grown hydroponically indoors, even in an apartment. Save your money and bring oxygen into your home 💚
Owning an animal is unethical..
One you get that through your head, you'll be a decent human
@@MdoubleHBxx hahaha trolling again?
Lol you're both idiots, chill out.
@@Vscustomprinting Sanctuaries tho.
They are about as unethical as French Bulldogs & Chihuahuas, so you'd better not take a look at some of the miniature cattle breeds that have been developed recently. Naturally cattle were & often are much smaller than typical, commerical Holstein-Friesian crosses, e.g. around 40" high, but some breeders have been breeding them even shorter. From an animal rights POV, it's all wrong, e.g. they are essentially deliberately breeding dwarfs, however, as with small ponies, I dare say you'll find cases that need rescuing & sanctuary. I'm afraid they'll like attract the wrong kind of buyers.
Find a mountain with a forest & start a cattle sanctuary, but be warned there are all sorts of costs & sanctions applied to them because of problems with diseases spread by commercial exploitation.
I was so happy to see this! I love Ann but I agree we can’t be 100% unbiased. I was hoping you’d comment on this , thank you for touching on such a highly debatable topic 👍
Despite not being vegan/vegetarian, removing any and all dairy foods from my diet just improved my skin conditions/IBS problems almost overnight. Never again....
Interesting. Returning to dairy did the opposite for me.
@@MdoubleHBxx animal food consumers are long lived. Here you go with wishful thinking again.
@@MdoubleHBxx Yeah, totally worse than beating them lmao
@@RestingBitchface7 Second here XD I'm beginning to think that nutrition science might not be as fixed as we think.
Same! Dropping dairy as an acne-clearing experiment and feeling loads better prompted my vegan journey in the first place. Glad to hear it helped your IBS symptoms, for me it felt like a general "malaise" was lifted. Later found out I had a mild allergy to dairy protein
I saw her video and the first thing I thought was 'Oh, UV is 100% going to talk about this'. Which is nice because I know some stuff about dairy but it's nice to see it gone over more thoroughly than just my 'hmm, that doesn't seem quite right' feeling.
Yeah, Food Theory is a channel from the MatPat, alongside Game Theory and Film Theory. Usually they are taking over the top topics like 'can you eat your Christmas tree' or 'what is safe to eat after nuclear catastrophe' or some things like trying to bake cookies out of ice cream, doing blind taste tests of diet colas or trying if the different order of ingredients stacking in burgers make difference. But recently they are taking the topics of food pyramid being influenced by meat and dairy producers, how some products were introduced as 'healthier options' and they are actually worse than the initial products. I think you would enjoy at least some of the videos
Two of my favourite TH-camrs in one video with my new headphones on - what a treat! I don't know if it's the headphones but I could hear what seems to me a pitter-patter of tiny feet throughout the video. It was kind of funny.
I don't know if I've ever commented on a video of yours before, but I am always so interested in what you talk about and I have genuinely learned a lot from you, not just content-wise but also about how to find credible sources and how to read information critically. I am not 100% vegan, but used to be a vegetarian who honestly didn't watch my other animal products other than fish and meat - I am now a vegetarian who eats plant-based at least 1 and usually 2 meals a day, and it's definitely in part because of watching this channel.
There was a section in the video where Anne discussed the importance of dairy milk in underdeveloped countries, specifically with getting such a nutritious food source to poorer nations who don't have access to that much, that I wish you had touched on. I would have liked to have heard a vegans realistic alternative to this.
Extremely good point, going vegan is not sustainable in those environments.
I think the main takeaway I got from Ann's video was that we shouldn't stop drinking dairy milk and switch to plant based milks, if we are still consuming all the other forms of dairy. Like, my family has mostly done that; switched to drinking almond milk but still eating cheese and butter. It doesn't make a lot of sense just from a logical sense; if you are actually sensitive to dairy you would be sensitive to it in all forms, right? Idk. What I do know is that, from a non-vegan perspective, I'm happy to consume all dairy products for the purposes of baking. There are just some applications plant based dairy replacements don't work in. If you are vegan, sure it makes obvious sense to use plant based dairy replacements. But the fad of not using dairy milk in your Starbucks latte but still ordering the buttery croissant is wierd.
The fad of Starbucks is weird.
I think Anne did a good job at easing the thought of veganism into the thoughts of hardcore non vegans. Obviously she couldn't include everything, but I think she did well overall. Honestly, I've all but given up on converting people and am just trying to convince people to give up certain products or do a couple vegan meals a week.
Dude this makes cakes and cream for living...what makes you think he will be unbiased ?..
Focus on the things you love and stop pontificating. You can lead horses but cannot force them to drink.
I started too share really good vegan recipes without emphasizing the vegan aspects, and I swear so many ppl around me now have them on a very regular basis. And even sharing them further. I think adding instead of taking away is the way to go
@@llleiea yes my family basically eat junk, meat, ready meals but i cook a dal every week and they LOVE it. my mom even cooks it often now.
TF is a hardcore non vegan? Someone who refuses to eat anything not derived from animals?
Milk is an important food for many people in poverty or living with disabilities and eating disorders.
BS. Milk and dairy are an important contributor to disease in poverty-ridden countries (e.g., the consumption of ghee/clarified butter in India and other South Asian countries and the cardiovascular-disease epidemic).
@ LOL. Oh, dear Lord, so wrong. Most people who die of cardiovascular disease have normal or low lipid panel numbers. Every freaking cell in your body is dependent on cholesterol.
Yea, I’ve donated for decades to Heifer Project International for just this reason. Want to lift third world families out of destitution and malnutrition? Give them goats and cattle.
French people and British people eat high quality cheese lol.
In my opinion, you eat dairy products if you believe that it is healthy for you and the planet. We all know that there a minds that refuse to listen to any other opinion, so it is best to improve on ourselves and ignore those who refuse logic, and I’m speaking from both Ann’s side and this video’s side.
Weirdly enough I started buying and eating kale because it’s super cheap at my Kroger. It’s 80 cents for a bunch of like 7-10 big big leaves
Please watch the response by Food Theory to how they reached their conclusion! I love your channel, love Ann as well. Matpat did a ton of research with his crew, and even their vegan cast member didn't catch the cabbage/kale mixup 😂 He talks about bioavailability and how you absorb more from the broccoli than you do from milk, so that's why they say it had more calcium than milk
That is not true, actually.
Anne also considered bioavailability. She references this when talking about beans.
The united states department of agriculture, the swedish food agency, the Australian food agency and much more all say that broccoli has less calcium per gram than milk does. Much less. And yes, they talk about cooked broccoli, raw broccoli, frozen broccoli (so matpats argument that his source says cooked and USDA says raw is blatantly false)
He lists a book as one of his sources (when talking about bioavailability), and you can look up a PDF version of it online for free. The book he references has a table with how much calcium different foods have. His own source says that milk has more calcium than broccoli. And yes: this counts even if you consider bioavailability. His own source.
His source says that broccoli has 4x more calcium than any other source in the world.
His source comes from 1 university and the rest of the world says he's wrong. Including the United States department of agriculture, who specify both cooked and raw broccoli (not just raw like matpat says)
More in depth answer, with numbers:
Mat claims that 1 cup of broccoli contains 180mg of calcium (and you absorb about 60% of this) which is 108 mg of calcium per cup of broccoli. Milk has about 300 mg per cup and you absorb about 32% aka 96 mg.
The problem is that one cup of broccoli does not contain 180 mg of calcium.
100 grams of raw broccoli (one cup is 91 gram) contains 47 mg of calcium. And you absorb 60% aka 28 mg.
Mat claims the number is low because it's not cooked. But if you look it up, cooked broccoli has 40mg of calcium per 100 gram (so even less..) and you absorb about 24 mg.
24 and 28 is less than the 96 mg from milk.
--
Matt only shows raw broccoli from USDA (us Department of agriculture) but they also have cooked broccoli. Raw is 47mg per 100gram (100g is slightly more than a cup) and 40 mg for cooked broccoli.
Only mats source claims 180mg. Every other source says somewhere between 45-50 mg per 100 gram.
180mg is RIDICULOUSLY high. It's FOUR TIMES more than every other source, including official government sources from USA, Sweden and Australia.
--
Matpat lists a book as a source (to talk about bioavailability) and his own source says milk has more calcium. He said the author "literally wrote the book about calcium."
Look up "calcium in human health". Go to page 145. they list one serving of milk as 240grams and it has 290 mg calcium, this means that milk has 1.208 mg of calcium per gram of milk. 32% bioavailability means that for every gram of milk, you absorb 0.39 mg of calcium.
Broccoli on the other hand is 71 gram and has 35 mg calcium, which means 0.493 mg of calcium per gram. 60% bioavailability means that for every gram of broccoli, you absorb 0.296 mg of calcium.
Even after considering bioavailability, milk has more calcium. 0.39mg is more than 0.296mg.
He was able to find RAW broccoli on the USDA site but failed to mention that the site also has COOKED broccoli - and cooked broccoli has EVEN LESS calcium than raw anyway..
If you search broccoli on USDA you find cooked, raw and frozen.
If you literally Google "usda broccoli cooked" it is the first result. He and his team of researcher couldn't find it?
Mat showed sources citing 45-50mg per 100g and speculates that it's because different parts of the broccoli.
First of all, his source does not state having used only a certain part of broccoli anywhere.
Second of all, the stalk and leaf of the broccoli has more or less the same nutritional values, specifically looking at calcium. This can be found on different websites (with USDA being the most trustworthy). I will note that the stalk/leaf is raw but as i states earlier cooked has even less calcium.
And even if it did a but more calcium, it certainly isn't gonna skyrocket from 45mg/100g to ~180mg/100g (his source says 180mg per 1 cup, which is 91g so it's actually claiming ~200mg per 100g).
Perhaps he should have looked it up instead of just guessing.
So is one stray source from a u.s. university correct or is the entire rest of the world, including the us government, correct?
Ps I was also unable to find a source that red kidney beans have 254 mg per 100gram (which, again, is ridiculously high)
@@sha11e you know you're not gonna absorb all the Ca honestly milk for most ppl is more trouble than good most adults can't digest lactose
@@awkwardnerd. adjusted for bioavailability milk still has more calcium.
I know many people can't digest lactose though.
I'm also not advocating for milk, i don't drink it and don't consume much animal products anymore but just saying mat was wrong regarding broccolli specifically at least.
The day I trust info from MatPat is when I get pregnant by Henry Cavill(which is never. Tho I love Henry 😍)
The recording of Alex o Connor about plant milk in your coffee wasn't meant literally. He was advocating not consuming any milk at all. He uses the example of coffee to show how easy it is.
@@betterworld2958 Yes I did notice that before haha
Aside from eating it ourselves, plant agriculture waste can be used in a number of industries as well. They can be a cheap carbon source for bioethanol and other fermentation processes which can go on to make all sorts of useful products for human nutrition, cosmetics, etc.
It's actually incredibly dishonest to say that we have this food waste, oh dear, so I guess there's no other choice but to feed it to animals and then exploit them at great cost to the environment and human health. [the animal is never considered, so I leave him/her out]
Or feed for mushrooms
I feel like there are people who can't handle the idea that diary does not deserves its own spot on a food pyramid/ plate scientifically. Booting dairy irrationally hits them the same way as Pluto being demoted to a dwarf planet. 😝.
@@MdoubleHBxx Tell me you're in a cult without telling me you're in a cult 😳😳
@@MdoubleHBxx please stop associating yourself w veganism. You give the sane ones a bad rep 🥲 I’ll wear my face diaper proudly. Idiot
all the keto people could never 🤣🤣
@@MdoubleHBxx 🤣🤣 what the fuck
Same goes for you Hun
I commented on Ann’s video. Cause I love Ann. And you could see she tried. But there is so much she just brushed over. Like the environment and then most cows don’t eat grass and hay. But soy protein boosted foods. She was absolutely right about the viable source milk can be for nutrition especially in poorer parts of the world. But in western civilization it’s just not necessary nor is it ethical and most of all not environmentally friendly. Thanks for the video agree a 100% with you
It is obvious that so much of what she says is directly from the Australian dairy industry. I have seen their talking points in various places, and kept thinking as I watched her video, "Where have I heard this, not even paraphrased, but rote, before?" : (
You know that corn is a grass, right?
i understand your thought process, but you clearly don't know enough about the global dairy industry if you think most cows don't eat grass. patently untrue. I just get tired of this self-righteous attitude you vegans all have when you unabashedly have no funking clue what you're talking about.
Most cows eat grass in Australia, you need to be less insular.
She makes cakes and cream for living..I don't expect her to be unbiased, besides milk is not the most nutritional food around.. obviously in some extreme conditions milk is a the old way, but other than that, it's a false statement.
I usually quite enjoy How To Cook That but I didn't want to watch this video because I just KNEW it would frustrate me! Thanks for making this so I don't have to facepalm my way through her video
Same here!
Same! As soon as I saw it pop up in my feed I was like "nooo, I can't bring myself to watch it". So when I saw UV's video I was very grateful 😅
I watch all her videos but couldn't watch this one, glad my gut was right on that one
Saaaaame
Very interesting to see the dynamic between Ann’s video and this one. All I’ll add to the conversation is this: if you’re a person who can’t bear to listen to a viewpoint that’s different from your own, know that that’s a very bad thing.
What I'm curious of (even when watching her video) is where do they get the calcium to fortify the vegan milks? ... Surely it's not animal based, so maybe it's from kale/broccoli but in that case how much waste is produced to get it or concentrate it? How much environmental impact does that have...?
It usually is red algae, or calcium carbonate (chemically made)
@@nuabioof83 Interesting... many thanks for your answer. :)
Food theory is definitely not vegan. The channel is an offshoot of game theory which is a gaming channel.
Yeah. While some can debate between this video and Ann’s, FT’s video was just weird.
I was really hoping you were going to make a video on this! Thank you!
Have you done any research into whether activated nuts are actually better for us? I keep reading how soaking them for however long and then drying them helps reduce the phytate content and increase mineral concentrations but when I tried to find some actual scientific evidence, everything I found suggested it wasn't backed up with any research. In fact, in some cases, it might be worse for us (chance of eating mould + phytate isn't all bad). I'm interested to know your thoughts. Thanks!
Love this video, I was wondering about all the points she made since I watched the video, I'm enlightened now :D
A thing I basically always forget in terms of calcium source is tap water: in France where I live, tap water is pretty high in calcium and authorities recommend we consume water from the tap for all the minerals in there, so... is it actually a good source? :o
Same here in South England! It's around 200mg of calcium per liter of water, so if we drank 2-3 liters per day from the tap, that's 400-600mg of calcium. And in the summer, it'll certainly be more.
In parts of America the tap water is more mineral rich, but America is huge and not every area is the same geographically so it's hit or miss. If your government is telling you your water is a good source, then I'm sure they have the science to back that. But otherwise I wouldn't rely on it. And in some cases in America, there's too much minerals in the water which causes kidney stones in some people. Also I hope you know, some places do not have access to clean tap water at all. These are all reasons it's not something people commonly talk about, it's so different everywhere.
Je savais pas que l’eau du robinet était une source de calcium ! Tu aurais une source qui en parle ?
Here in Switzerland we can check which reservoir our address gets its tap water from online. Each reservoir also releases information on the current quality and mineral contents of the water. Maybe you can find this information in France as well? Then you could determine for youself if the calcium contents at your specific location are high enough for you to consider them a relevant source. :)
@@lavenderoh thanks so much for the info, I didn't realise the huge difference between countries and inside of countries themselves, and the point on the access to clean water is a very good one. Thanks again 🙂
Im so happy that your posting more frequently! Love your channel.
I'm interested in your recommendation for yogurt alternatives? My issue is alot are much higher in carb than protein, we eat 95% vegetarian but I'm having a hell of a time finding a good yogurt alternative (my toddler is obsessed with yogurt). We don't drink milk or eat cheese already. I'm trying get away from yogurt slowly to help with transitioning, but any recommendations?
The silk soy yogurt has decent nutrition facts. However, I’ve never tried it myself and a lot of reviews say it is very sweet (even the unflavored version has sugar as the second ingredient yikes!) but the protein is there.
@@ashleigh6192 thank you!
OMG I was gonna request this but figured my comment would be missed! Dream come true! Thank you Swayze. ❤️
love your videos Swayze, always so informative
Cooking doesn't decrease volume that much for broccoli, maybe 5-15 percent. Same with cabbage, maybe 15-30 percent. Not sure about kale, as I do not cook or eat it.
I was just waiting for someone to debunk this!! That ending about the environment was so disappointing in her video
debunk what? that we are predisposed to eat ruminant animals and we are all hypercarnivore and we require 0 plants in our diet?
@@highlander200268 Sorry dude not everyone wants to support unnecessary animal abuse
@@ross3015 like plowing up the ground killing billions of microbes, plowing up snakes, rabbits, rodents, pesticides that kills billions, and then pesting via farmers that shoot deer, rabbits, snakes, moles, etc.. you mean that abuse?
@@highlander200268 What do you think your food eats? More plants need to be harvested to support a meat-eater's diet compared to a vegan's diet. Are you really pretending to eat meat for animal welfare... give me a break.
@@ross3015 lets see, my cows eat grass, they poop on the grass, the grass then regrows, the cows then give birth to more cows, and the cycle starts over....
The suitablitity for farming varies a lot from country to country. In australia a lot of dairy farms are run in areas that aren't good for high yield crop farming which is why they run dairy cows there in the first place.
THANK YOU for making this! I couldn't bare to watch it despite liking her content
Same
I saw it and scrolled past knowing I would rather not watch a TH-camr I like in disappointment. No regret in waiting for this video to watch it instead.. 😄
Idk I think Anne is far less bias than any of us lmao
Well this is a vegan channel and unnatural vegan is creating her whole channel because of bias
@@somad6997 everyone is biased
@@somad6997 eating vegan is worse for the environment than eating local+ stay mad 🤡
@@somad6997 it objectively is, even though beef has a higher carbon footprint on its own as soon as you factor in transport for vegan alternatives (compared to beef which the farm is literally a short drive away) locally sourced food has a much smaller carbon footprint than imported vegan food
I’m pretty sure that clip about changing the milk in your latte was a clip from Cosmic Skeptic, and if it is than I’m pretty sure it was taken out of context because he’s a vegan activist amongst other things. I’m sure he was just talking about reducetarianism
No...he was telling complete removal, we are not babies that we need milk, he was very clear about his possession .. people act like babies when talking about mlik...
@@VeganSanatani chill... I said I wasn’t sure what the clip was about and made my best guess, but I also said he has a strong stance for Veganism because he’s a vegan activist. Being defensive about everything is not a good way to have conversations, especially when you’re misunderstanding what somebody is saying
I have loved Ann's videos for years but couldn't get through this video. So happy you covered this!
There is an ethical way to consume milk. I've been to the rural areas of Romania where my husband is from and have seen the cows are cared for. Same when I visited Kenya. I would drink cow's milk there, but not in the states, unless I personally knew the farmer. Ppl have historically consumed milk ethically prior to industrialization.
Same here
When I lived in Palestine I felt no guilt about enjoying diary because in the villages dairy is still farm to table
The mass production must be the problem in the West
I was disappointed that she talked about about the calves being separated from their mothers but not what happens to them afterwards. The calves aren’t fed formula until they grow up to live long, happy lives. If you don’t eat beef because you’re against killing cows, then you might want to think twice about eating dairy.
Thank you! I was absolutelly looking forward for someone from a vegan prospective to react and comment. I deeply respect Ann Reardon and all her work. Which is why I'm glad that you took this opportunity and gave honest feedback with appreciation, kindness and respect for her as well. Great job! 👍 ❤
I'm so nervous to watch this... I love you both so much!
When I gave up dairy three months ago for health reasons I thought I was going to die. If you had asked me what my favourite food was, you know the one thing you could eat on a desert island, I would’ve responded ice cream. I have not touched dairy in three months and not only am I not missing it at this point my arthritis was gone in three days. Most of my tendinitis issues have gone so I’m down to about 10% of what I used to suffer.
im so glad to hear! milk can be very inflammatory, so that makes sense
I was thinking that you would have a great response to Food Theory's video about eating chocolate instead of spinach. I think it's called something like "Skip Salad! Eat Chocolate!"
She is a cake and cream maker, obviously she has some agendas.
@@VeganSanatani What that has to do with Ann, Elisa is not even talking about Ann 💀
I want to start by saying I love your channel and you've helped me move toward being more plant based.
but saying that eating plants is more efficient than animals is like saying that riding a bike and using public transport is more efficient than using a car. Efficient for the environment, seems to be true, but often burdensome for the individual, esp if they have a busy life.
I mean yes that's the whole point, we're destroying our planet to have small moments of convenience like driving, single-use plastics, animal foods etc. Acting in an environmentally responsible way means acknowledging that your personal convenience is not worth destroying the earth and making a whole bunch of people suffer through the process of it. It also means giving up some of these conveniences. Either voluntarily or by pushing for policy changes that force you to. We have literally no other choice. The climate crisis is already causing a whole lot of suffering.
@@MissNoechen I'm fully down for public transport and other alternatives, but only if they consider the individual properly. I didn't own a car for many years and it severely limit's a person's options. You can't work too far from your house. You can't do a lot of bulk grocery shopping. In bad weather it's brutal. It takes x2-4 as long as owning a car and often much more effort to walk , carry stuff, and plan your route. However if the government properly invests in making these services much better then it wouldn't be so bad! The problem is I've seen no consideration for that type of thing. One other thing that bothers me is a total lack of consideration for how these policies can effect people. Make cars more expensive? Okay, now only wealthy people get the advantage of a car. Now only wealthy people have the privilege of traveling to the best job opportunities etc. While the poor and middle class have to spend 2-4 times as long in transit and make compromises all the time. I know that things can seem urgent but we have to plan these things in a smart way so they don't back fire and causes ordinary people to hate green policies and genuinely be disadvantaged by them.
She probably meant it more efficient in terms of energy being used and feeding huge amounts of people.
Not really.
Not really, not these days.
Thank you for posting this. I am not a vegan but I am also an Anne Reardon fan and I was disappointed by her milk video. I don't think anyone should feel forced to be vegan or not but if you do choose to consume animal products, you need to be honest about all the impacts it has to do so. It's an injustice not to. I literally couldn't stop thinking about all the problems in her video and how much it bugged me.
In my opinion, this is a common stance among older dieticians. My sister is a dietician and I see one myself because I am prediabetic. The first thing my dietician said to me was that I need to eat more dairy but I am lactose intolerant. I am also half Chinese and this idea that you have to eat dairy to get enough calcium is just ridiculous to me. We drank soymilk and ate tofu on occasion but it's not like we ate it with every meal, you supplement with other things like vegetables.
Soooo.... Where does the the calcium used to fortify plant-based milk come from?
Rocks
Rocks are nice :|
Thank you! I also was a subscriber to How to Cook That and was so disappointed to see this video come out of the channel.
Haven't seen the video yet but I already know this is going to be so good
I was disappointed but not surprised by this video. Ann does eat a standard diet, so I think she approaches food from this perspective.
Wait…
By THIS video
Or ANN’S video?
@@EvTheBadConlanger Ann’s video because she seems so level headed on calling out scams. I was disappointed Ann is so uninformed on veganism.
@@JuliasHairJourney Thanks for the clarification.
Yep. Good review. You gave her credit where it is due but yeah your points about animal ethics and her falling short in that respect are tough to overlook.
Idk about anyone else but I’m still satisfied off her video. She still brought the discussion . And since she specializes in the dietitian/food science it was very well covered. And like me, I’m not very informed on the environmentalism and I’m sure she’s the same way.
I’d agree, she still put some points to the table. So did this video.
Nah, Ann's video was not good. If it was just about the nutritional aspect then I wouldn't have an issue. But she had sections specifically devoted to environment and ethical impacts and completely glosed over them.
She has created a video where people will come away believing that the only issues with dairy production is calf separation and water use (that she incorrectly implies that it is difficult/impossible to compare with plant milks).
It is a misleading video. Ann should be ashamed to publish this kind of thing if she claims to be a science communicator. It was very biased.
1. Animal husbandry laws in the USA are NOT universal! Where I'm from in farm country AB Canada the animals are treated far better.
2. YOU CAN'T EAT ALL OF THE PARTS OF PLANTS. For example cows can be fed chaff, chaff in case your wondering is the part of a cereal crop (ie. wheat and oats) that isn't the grain itself. The rest we can't eat! It's straw WE CANT EAT STRAW. Where I'm from people would have their cows pasture on their fields after harvesting. The cows eat the chaff, and in turn they poop and fertilize the feild organically. Also you noted her qualifications at the start of the video but whenever she says something that doesn't aline with your beliefs you question her knowledge but praise her intelligence when what she says lines with your beliefs. Also small farms can be very efficient, and be better for the environment. Also again the whole world doesn't treat their animals the way america does.
I'm veggie as well, I agree on a lot of your points and even agree that milk is almost definitely worse for the environment, but our world in data is most definitely not an unbiased source here. OWD is funded in large parts by the bill and malinda gates foundation, which has a lot of investments in meat and dairy alternatives. I use OWD for statistics but we should always take our sources with a grain of salt, and remember there is no such thing as an unbiased source.
17:56 That was my EXACT response to that part! Called it.
Heheh, in my language cabbage is kaali and kale is lehtikaali (leafcabbage/leafkale) so i mix the two all the time
can you review julianne ayers ?
Oh my god thank you! I wanted to suggest this to you because I had exactely the same thoughts.
Thank you so much for this video!!! you're the best
Where does the calcium additive for milk substitutes come from?
Rocks?
Limestone and such?
Mostly from oyster shells.
A cup of calcium set tofu way beats a cup of milk on calcium. Cannellini beans are the highest calcium bean though all beans give a nice bonus. Most people don't drink 3 cups of milk a day, so everyone does need to get about 60% of their calcium from greens/beans/tofu if they want to meet RDA.
Right, like even when I consumed cows milk I never drank a glass of milk, let alone 3.
Then you should have eaten milk with cereal or milk with cookies and there's cheese and yogurt too
for the broccoli and kale section, can't you just also blend them into a drink or smoothie? make a tasty fruit-veggie drink and any kid will gabble it up and ask for more. then drink this the necessary amount of times per day to get the daily requirements of calcium?
does one have to eat all that broccoli (kale, etc) in one sitting? can't it be dispersed throughout the day across multiple meals?
You'd need to add A LOT of fruit to a smoothie to cover up that much broccoli and kale flavour. And that would probably be more than most people could/would want to consume in a day, even if it were spread over multiple meals.
u say she fell short of being unbiased.. but ultimately arent you going to be biased as a vegan? at the end of the day theres always gonna be arguments on either side
I hate surveys! I mean, I don’t check my calcium intake. I eat beans, nuts, not so much tofu, and I have never eaten kale. I don’t have any calcium problems. I pick large pieces of plants in my garden that are about 150 pounds. I put them on my shoulder and take them to the curb when getting rid of over growths in my garden. I am 59 and don’t suffer from back problems or joint pains. Not after I started eating blueberries. So this is what worked for me.
I wish the truth was the same for everyone but it is not.
Thank you for this video. You got yourself a new subscriber 😊
Question: my (non vegan) uncle recently used the argument that we could never feasibly support a vegan world because manure is required for agriculture. Does anyone know if this is true??
It's not. We can compost plant matter or use the highly ubiquitous human poop.
@@davidellis1550 lol thanks for the response! He said there is something special about the nitrogen content in cow manure but I researched it and it turns out the cows get produce the high nitrogen poop BECAUSE of a particular plant they consume.
I wondered about that as well. But after she did the review on earthling Ed, I checked out his channel. He answers this question wonderfully.
If we keep farming in our current way. The reason cow manure and stuff is preferred is because we take a lot of nutrients out of our soil by over producing food. Cow manure is a source with a lot of resources for farming. To regenerate soil health.
But it also destroys a lot of ground water because it also contains a lot of toxins that get released in the air and water. The fact is we don’t only over produce animals but because we need to overproduce certain types of food to feed these animals we deplete a lot of soil health. Remember almost 93% of soy grown go’s to feeding farmed animals. I think about 65% of all food grown is animal feed not 100% sure on the percentage there. But we need to feed billions of animals per year so we grow a lot of food for them.
If the world went vegan we still produce more plant based food then we actually need. So we would need less land to produce our food there for our soil has more time to repair and regenerate. If we then switch to a more permaculture type way of growing our foods we are perfectly fine with compost.
Night soil...
Two of my favorites in one video!
Have you watched the documentary "death on an industrial farm?"
Its a documentary from like 2009 (horrible quality) revolving around a case where a farmer decided to hang cattle via a chain/forklift. Its a very interesting documentary.
Omg thank you I’ve been searching for that film for literal years. I saw it a long time ago but could never remember the name of it. Btw I just googled it and it’s actually called “death on a factory farm”
YES. THANK YOU.
I was hoping you will respond.
Your vid was really good but some comments are just in bad spirit
This is such a dope discourse to have and no need to sour it with shame and putting people’s nature under scrutiny rather than keeping the conversation constructive
The bad rep veganism has is purely a product of that and approach definitely matters
This rings true in every discourse and these types of comments really do a disservice to how amazing and constructive your vids are
You’re legit the best vegan creator on this platform and I appreciate the work you do in making it less intimidating for people to dive into veganism despite it all
In Finland there is a huge state level milk propaganda industry. Even in schools there are often all kinds of posters supporting the dairy industry and claiming that you NEED to drink milk for the calcium etc. It's actually pretty crazy to think something like that happens in a first world country usually thought to be "one of the good ones".
I'd love to see you to react to "I lied to you?" Or whatever is called by MatPat he responds to what she said in her video. (And there's no whacky music)
The only milk alternatives that don't work for me are for: milk for coffee, kefir and milk for cold-beetroot soup and cheese for salads...
idk why but kale is actually insanely cheap where I live (a semi-rural town in North Carolina U.S.), a giant bunch of kale is only 80 cents. Ofc i still often buy the $5 baby spinach instead cause I'm too lazy to wash my own greens lol
I'm so glad that you made this response. I love her channel too, but oof, it was hard to watch.
“All my cow-culations…” I’m sure that’s not what you said but that is what I herd.
I agree her video could have been more in-depth.
I recently started drinking goats milk, mostly for flavor reasons and it makes my stomach better than when I drink cows milk.
What are your thoughts on goats milk? I'm very interested to hear what you have to say!
You basically chose to abuse one animal by sparing the other...makes no difference.
@@VeganSanatani And you are basically choosing to bully a stranger online instead of trying to give some information to help learn what you are talking about.
I would be open to learning and would be open to hearing what you have to say if you wouldn't be so rude about it.
@@sarahdriedger4386 bully ? If this is bullying to you, I am pretty sure you have never been bullied. If you were you would not have said that.
first ad on this video for me was land o lakes dairy… coincidence or no?? I’m lactose intolerant so I’m leaning no coincidence lmao
Thank you for your video!
What are you thoughts on places like the arctic, where the main source of nutrition is seal & caribou, and plant based foods aren't an option, as they don't have trees or ability to grow fruits, vegetables, grains, etc?
There is a video of earthling Ed she reviews where he talk to a girl who brings up indigenous food traditions and people who live in places where you can’t get to vegan foods or alternatives.
The vegan community doesn’t say people should starve. We mostly focus on people living in places where you can make the ethical choice to be healthy and be vegan. Obviously if you need to hunt and fish to survive thats what you should do. We can’t judge you on that it’s what you need for your own survival.
But watch the video for her opinion on it highly recommend it
Are you typing this from the arctic? How's the igloo holding up?
we shouldn't have opinions about those communities, they live the way they can
“[T]he main source of of nutrition” in the Arctic isn’t seal or caribou anymore (nor even fish), but imported standard western-diet foods such as oil, flour, sugar, etc.
@@jamesjack8622 I follow a plant based diet. I was just curious about her thoughts, as she tends to evidence based, so I assume she would be reasonable. There are extremists who genuinely believe people should die from starvation as opposed eating hunting for survival.
I was gonna send this to you but then didn't, glad to hear a response!
I was unable to watch the original video because I really just got mad. Glad to see a reaction to it, though!
Same, I was so disappointed and frustrated with the ethical aspect of dairy in HTCT's video that I knew I shouldn't even watch the rest.
Broccoli does not shrink that much with cooking.
Ann is fantastic! Thanks for your input on the video :)
Raw milk, which is its natural form, is full of nutrients
Natural fot baby cows
@@Hihelloto check out what is in raw milk, its much healthier than plants milks.
@@tereza2271even more real estrogen and other hormones and bacteria?
I would like to avoid actual endocrine disruptors and shitting from food poisoning
Yes, raw milk is full of nutrients, in the balance than fast growing baby cows require for their first year of like while they grow to be 800lbs. Why aren't you weaned yet?
I think if you consider the wild ancestor that became nearly extinct as a result of domesticated versions, the "but don't you want to see them frolicking in a field?" argument doesn't hold weight.
Backyard chickens and backyard dairy are still harmful and immensely unethical.
My friend who has backyard chickens gets them from a large hatchery that macerates male chicks. She herself slaughters (or pays a local processor to slaughter) her chickens when their egg laying slows. In the meantime, she posts dozens of cute photos and videos of her chickens doing adorable things and her children naming and feeding them.
Same with backyard dairy. The cows and goats still have to be bred year after year. Goats can have 8, count them EIGHT kids in one year, and most of those kids are sold to folks who want to BBQ them, as are the dairy calves. The ppl I know with a dairy cow send them to slaughter when their production slows. They are always rearing up a new heifer to be their next dairy provider, so they don't miss a beat when the old one becomes less useful. I do not know one single family that retires their egg laying hens or dairy animals to a long life on the pasture.
Otherwise, great video. Thanks for being an intelligent voice for the animals.
Idk why you think any of this is ba
D
I saw her video before yours and watching yours I was screaming in my head for you to just watch some more and then comment 😂
On the extinction bit, I agree that Cow's would not be wiped out if people did run dairy farms. Like goats for instance, goats are all over the place, and yes there are many countries and cultures that milk/eat goats, but these creatures have lived in mountains and other natural habits for longer than we've been farming. At least I'd like to think that's true. I really love Ann's channel and I appreciate the work she does, we can all learn from critics and do more in-depth research, even when we think we've proved our points.
I'd be interested in your thought about species extinction in the realm of breed-specific wool. There are many small-scale sheep farms that breed extremely rare sheep (Exmoor Horn, Jacob, Navajo-Churro), and as far as I know the only reason these sheep breeds are still around is because of fiber artists that buy their wool. I have eaten vegan for a year and have stopped buying leather and silk, but still buy breed-specific wool for my handknitting because I believe ethical wool farming can and does exist in a way ethical dairy farming doesn't. It's not hard to find wool producers who will tell you the names of the sheep the wool came from. Of course it's much more expensive than commercial wool.
@Rose Blue No, if you keep sheep only for wool and take good care of them there is no abuse involved. No unnecessary killing, no milking. But I don't think you can make money on it. You need to do it simply because you love your sheep.
Honest questions, a) do they really keep their sheep until they die of natural causes? b) how do they harvest the wool, c) how is breeding decided upon? Having been vegan for over 35 years, I think it's an under-discussed, & unresolved area of vegan animal rights, where we get into the most tiny minutiae, but also complex areas, of animal & environmental ethics. There's also not the cut & dry answer in the way of a fundementalistic "no wool" response.
For sure, "no wool" when it comes to industrialized commercial farming & production is absolutely correct, & given humanity's tendency to bend rules & exploit situations in its favor, it's the best position for us to take for the masses.
However, it does not address all real world scenarios, & there are numerous angles on this. A full answer would have to be long & complex & include such aspects as; the environmental costs/damage/benefits of alternative materials (as damage to the environment ALSO effects animals), how precisely we imagine running down the wool sheep populations (e.g. many breed like merinos NEED to be sheered due the manner in which we have mutated them) leaving us with what to do with the residual production, & then whether we should maintain flocks of heritage breeds for some future purpose.
But, let's be clear, heritage breeds are not wild & have already been mutated to some degree. Wild breeds don't need to be sheered but just molt naturally. Clearly the earliest human use would have been of naturally molted fleece collected from where the sheep left it. As a rule, domestication - maintaining animals in a domesticated form - is not vegan but I'm not sure not sustaining such breeds is a wise thing to do.
Lastly, there is the slippery slope argument in favor of eschewing wool, e.g. that you may well have the most ethical wool but someone else sees it & thinks, I just want a cheap, factory made copy (similar for the arguments against second hand leather or fur).
It also enters into the arena of the ethics of commensal relationships with other species, e.g. "sheep benefit from being looked after & protected (& sheered at present), should they not contribute to the cost of that thru their produce or labor?" which, again, is an open debate. At the end of the day, being sheered is only a timely haircut. The primary problem is the manner in which it is done commercially at present.
Beyond the question of heritage breeds, I'd say that the ultimate goal would be to reduce sheep populations to their natural & wild minimum & form, in their natural environments, which would equally reduce the amount of truly ethical wool that could be collected (i.e. naturally discarded). Therefore, in a way, those sheep are still being exploited.
They are, in a sense, house slave rather than field slaves. But which is worse, being the former or living a life in the wild?
The other conflict that is left to address then is the balance between naturally produced materials versus artificially produced materials. There has been an assumption that artificial is "more vegan". I question whether that is true & accurate. that is to say, that the production of artificial materials causes more harm than the most ethical of naturally produced or recycled materials.
I imagine that there are equivalent problems in the commercial production of cotton, an apparently "vegan" product.
I think absolute need is an important factor in the recycling of animal products. I see absolutely no excuse for the sake of consumer fashion but, on the other hand, I don't see it's a great problem in situations of necessity, which might be based on poverty or marginal human existences ... another area that veganism has not just resloved, e.g. tribespeople living in cold & remote terrains.
* A long post for what could just be a summary for an entire book on the subject.
@@goranbreskic4304 See above. There is abuse involved even when you "take good care". Even mere existence can be abusive, e.g. the case of merino sheep that have been bred to overproduce wool. There are subtle damages done to not only animals' physiques due to domestication, but even their mental healths. To the best of my knowledge, humanity has never domesticated a species for the sake of the animals' interests. It has always been for human interests & to the animals' disadvantage, e.g. making them stupid & docile enough for us to exploit.
@Rose Blue I agree with you right up until the question of ... & I appreciate this may sound ridiculous ... how long in human history do we believe veganism can exist for? By which I mean, veganism is very much tied to, & limited to, modern, advanced societies ... but how long do we think that will last for, & what's out Plan B for when it collapses?
When it does finally collapse, how are we going to survive?
And, as raised above, how do we fit in those societies that have not yet been fully amalgamated into modern civilization?
Specifically, I suppose I'm talking about the collapse of the oil-based economy on which so many alternatives are dependant.
11:50 I always hear this argument from anti-vegans that the livestock are fed parts of the soy & corn plant that are inedible to humans like the husks and stuff. I can never find any source that explicitly debunks or supports this claim, can anyone drop a link that's relevant? Thank you!
Loved this video!
I have seriously cut back on the animal products I eat. I try to eat mostly vegan I use hemp milk now and order a case every month
another golden video !
Fun fact in Danish cabbage and kale is called the same thing!
Is anyone else out there getting 15 ads on this video? What's going on??
Casual Richard Spencer cameo at 9:16
I'm a bit hormonal at the moment and that clip with the mama cow concerned about her baby going in that truck just fucked me up. =(
I feel like rather than going vegan, for animal welfare it would be better to focus on knowing the life histories of the animals used to make the animal products you're buying, and buying products from more ethical farmers. If you're a dairy farmer, you're not going to care what vegans think of how you treat your cows, because they're not giving you money either way. People who buy cow's milk but are selective about which farms they buy from are the ones who actually provide a financial incentive to treat dairy cows better. And the same with other livestock. And you can say "humane and ethical farms don't exist" all you want, but it still doesn't mean that I forget about actually visiting farms that were treating their animals humanely.