Special thanks to Carter and Xavier, two subscribers who helped and contributed in the video. Many of you asked me to make a video about this incident and here it is. Many hours of edition are behind so I really hope you find it interesting. Remember you can follow me on twitter for further information, pictures of my pilot's life and more :D
VASAviation - An incident occurred on the 18th of August when a Jet2 flight (LS1204) going from Malaga to Birmingham was intercepted by a French Fighter Jet for no obvious reason. Don't know if a video about this would be possible
A very well done video, which completely answers any possible questions related to the "hold", and "taxi" positions of the offending aircraft. Someone owes Ground Control, and other supportive personnel a beer, at the very least, for their yeoman's effort in keeping a bad situation from going straight to hell. (hat's off to the Air France A380, and, again, Ground; a damn fine job where all are concerned) It would have been great to have heard some "Kennedy Steve, straight from the peanut gallery" commentary. I'm certain the term 'winglet enema' would have then been coined.
And why not? If Air France can't do the intersection and Air Berlin can then they will depart while Air France taxies into position. Air France will not be delayed any further and Air Berlin will be out of the airport reducing congestion for everyone. Everyone would win in that situation. When controllers refuse to allow an aircraft to depart because they are "in sequence" behind an aircraft that can't depart it just makes the delay worse for everyone. I've been held on the ground for over an hour staring at a perfectly good runway that no one was using due to thunderstorms and IFR clearances that had nothing to do with my VFR flight. A waste of everyone's time.
Joshua Landry On this particular case though, AirBerlin says they'd need 5 minutes to ready, so them doing an intersection departure probably wouldn't really save anyone time unless AirFrance got delayed while taxiing.
Air Berlin indicated ready for take off in 5 minutes at 5:00, 2.5 minutes later, at 7:30 Air France still talking about intersection departure, so they wouldn`t have crossed runway 22R at this point. (And the audio might be compressed). I bet for the time they taxi down to Yankee, than Echo and line up on 22R for full length, Air Berlin would be halfway home if they take off from the intersection. Also, Air Berlin was a Heavy, Air France is Super, it makes sense to let the Heavy take off, the Super has to wait less behind him than the other way around.
jesus so many planes and radio calls, and this is only a small section of the airport! ATC guys must have the mental capacity of starcraft 2 pros to be able to keep up with all of this.
Just outrageous!! So many wingtip strikes in one day! Look at that Air France hit JetBlue at 5:02 and shortly after he continues to obliviously ram both Virgin and Delta! Wtf?? Same for the Air Berlin - madness!!
On August 18th at 9:20 am at jfk airport I was on a delta flight to to pbi. The woman sitting next to me worked for the Port Authority and called the ATC tower and had our flight skip the taxi line and take off first....I'd love to hear that audio of our regional jet passing 15 planes waiting in line
Wingtip of (green in video) hit horizontal stabilizer/elevator of the (purple in video) plane. Control surface damage of the (purple in video) would ground the aircraft until repairs complete. This repair would be extensive, getting into significant checks of the hydraulic control systems, elevator hinges and adjustable stabilizer controls. Possibly $hundreds of thousands$ in repairs. Winglet damage of the other aircraft most likely also had it grounded until repaired. And a VERY big black mark on the PIC and co-pilot's records for the (green in video) because they hit a stopped aircraft.
Air Berlin, not a bad airline. I had so many miles in their frequent flyer programme. Othrwise great maps and graphic - so easy for me to understand the navigation on the ground.
737 NG doesn't have a position light on the tail either, that doesn't help. Just wingtips. All planes of the size should have a rear white nav light on each wingtip, AND the tail.
Kennedy Steve in the middle of things as usual! Great job VasAviation. Great work ATC. Delta--- why rush? Why not ask AA to move a bit further up or just wait?
Don't know if you take suggestions for videos but I was on United 510 EWR to SEA on July 22nd and we had a rejected takeoff for a door warning light. Thought it would be interesting to hear the radio conversation on that.
I don't understand why in this day and age all commercial planes haven't had small wide-angle cameras fitted into the vertical stabilizer with which the flight deck can see the entire width of the aircraft up to both wingtips. Wouldn't be terribly expensive, and would prevent 99% of these occurrences..
It could actually get quite expensive if there aren't any existing provisions. You'd need to modify the v/stab structure and fairings to accept a camera and lens, mount a tray in the equipment bay for some sort of camera LRU, and route a new harness (wireless tech isn't there yet). Then you'd hopefully be able to use an existing harness run from the back to the cockpit (to avoid drilling into the frames/seat rails for new brackets) but you'd still have to undress and unclip the whole harness run, install your new coax into the bundle, redress and clip. Most of this stuff is buried so you'd have to pull open floor panels to get access. Then you'd need new software and all of the engineering time for an STC. Probably cheaper to deal with a bent wingtip every few years until they replace the fleet with newer aircraft where cameras were included at design.
Interesting how the comments focus on who's to blame and indicate it's nice the following planes had little delay. However there are still 500+ passengers in these 2 planes that now need to be put on standby and find seats on next flights, causing further disruption to both AA and DL. These are the largest losers in that situation.
I notice alot of miss communication by the pilots when reading back ATC instructions, be nice if the verbal communication was converted to text and shown on a screen in the cockpit. Im a pilot myself, and I know that while doing other tasks in the cockpit its easy to forget the array of instructions that ATC tells you, especially when they say it fast.
Gerwin Bergsma go on google, type in, KJFK charts, you will then get all the charts for KJFK. Airport diagram, approach plates, etc.print off the Airport diagram on A3 paper, then you can follow along with the soundtrack.
I guess ATC insisted on full length thinking "We had enough trouble today. I'm not gonna take responsibility if the short takeoff goes wrong." Don't ATCs have a graphic that shows them plane sizes and positions? Basically like this video, but proper scale? I'd absolutely assume they have. Watching JFK traffic makes me think how amazingly simpler things would be with VTOL airliners, haha.
Maybe you could color the call signs (?) of aircrafts in the subtitles in the same color as the plane on the map, if someone uses someone else's call sign
Virgin 4C! What are the chances that that flight would be somewhat involved in 2 very similar, yet rate altercations, one of which being directly, and this one observing.
Hey VASAviation! I have a proposal. What about giving the exact time of the events happening in the video? Some type of a clock somewhere in the corner? I know it might be quite time-consuming but also very comfortable to watch. Consider please :) Regards!
VASAviation - i know the audio and animation is not in real time, that's the point. Between the chats when the break is long the clock would accelerate.
Looks like ground control's fault to me, trying to get too fancy trying to stack the departure line in parallel, but I'd love for someone with some expertise to weigh in, yeah.
Hey just one question cause im new to the airplanes world... Do they hear the ATC with the same audio quality as we do in this vídeo or they have a clarer sound? My english isnt very good btw but i cant barely understand what they are saying without the subtitles.
I've had the same issue many times and have read that real radio is clear and understandable. I just can't imagine it sometimes, the recordings must be horrible artifacts of real life.
The recordings are probably giving you clear ATC because they have powerful transmitters while the aircraft often broadcast on weaker signals and the distance the guy recording this is from the airport would make the stronger signal of the ATC stand out.
Jackson Fortune He needed to recalculate to see if the length of the runway from the intersection would be enough for the plane. If it was, they could take off from there and save time.
Jackson Fortune - They have to enter the new shorter runway distance into the flight performance computer they use to see if there's enough take-off distance available. And when they do that, they have to re-enter all the other variables the computer needs (temperature, barometric pressure, fuel weight, PAX & cargo weight, engine de-rating, take-off flaps setting) before they can hit the 'calculate' button. Commercial pilots just don't guess or 'wing it' when they take-off from a runway, especially if it's not full length. Also, it's always better to take off full length because even if they can take off from shorter distance, it gives you an extra buffer/safety margin in case they have to reject take-off, especially at or near V1.
I used it in playback mode to place the airplanes at their exact locations. Anyways, playback of Flightradar24 works so bad visually and planes start to crazy move all around sometimes.
I am pretty sure it was fault of the delta 738, I think it's the pilot taxiing who is responsible for not driving into things, especially since you can see your wingtips in 738.
So who's fault is it? 290's for not sufficiently clearing his tail from Charlie? Or 2503 for moving without making sure he had clearance on his port side?
I'm curious about this too, and I'm surprised that nobody has laid out who was to blame in the comments. I'm no expert but this looks like ground control's fault, he instructed Delta to follow American by taxiing on Charlie and then left on Echo, then when American turned onto Fox-Bravo (after being instructed to follow the Airbus), Delta rightfully asked for clarification about whether to continue following American, or to taxi to Echo. Then ground control gives a nonsensical answer, saying to continue taxiing to Echo to start a new line, then says turn onto Fox-Bravo to follow American, which seem like contradictory instructions to me. EDIT: Ah, now that I watch it again, I see that ground control wanted the Delta flight to wait on Echo until the American crossed Echo on FB, then to turn right onto FB behind the American. I still think this was probably ground control's mistake, he was just trying to stack too many flights up at once I think. And Delta probably assumed that ground control wouldn't have sent him to Echo unless he was sure there was enough clearance.
The controller should not have crammed these large aircraft into that tight corner. And the pilot should not have accepted the controller's request, insisting to follow the aircraft ahead. Aviation,, small mistakes = large consequence.
In my opinion pilot error, first plane should have it's tail feathers well out of the way. I would think there would be plenty of room to do so. But we are looking at graphics made to show the collision and not to scale and that's my only input.
2 aircraft with a combined length of ~280ft/85m taking up over 900ft/275m of taxiway? The AA would have had over 160ft/48m of taxiway in front of it if its ass was hanging out enough for the Delta to clip it, so why not at least move up or take the turn onto foxtrot-bravo like instructed?
That'll ruin your day and then some! Does anyone know what kind of penalty the captain can receive for this? If he's found responsible after the investigation of course. Thanks
There is no if. PIC is ultimately responsible for the aircraft he commands. I don't think anything serious will happen to him - it was a honest mistake, very hard to spot.
+VASAviation - you should open one. I'm sure many people would like to donate something. Unless you don't like getting some money for your hard work /s
I actually have an account opened but not active. I will have to take a look and see how it works properly. Thanks for your comments and support. That's my great payment anyways :D
That's one busy Airport,there were a lot of planes lined up and waiting,I wouldn't have wanted to be a passenger in the plane that got clipped,I would say there was a considerable hold up,who's fault would that have been? Very good VASAviation and Thankyou.
Agnes T JFK isnt that busy actually compared to some other airports in the world that are much more efficient. They use standard radio phraesology, have modern ATC equipment and modern infrastructure in general. US aviation is just a mess.
![[REAL ATC] Fedex MD11 diverts to Newark due to FUEL LEAKING](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PZA_P0aIT9s/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] Fedex MD11 diverts to Newark due to FUEL LEAKING](/img/tr.png)
Special thanks to Carter and Xavier, two subscribers who helped and contributed in the video. Many of you asked me to make a video about this incident and here it is. Many hours of edition are behind so I really hope you find it interesting. Remember you can follow me on twitter for further information, pictures of my pilot's life and more :D
VASAviation - The AA 757 involved was N172AJ.
Thanks for the information :D
VASAviation - An incident occurred on the 18th of August when a Jet2 flight (LS1204) going from Malaga to Birmingham was intercepted by a French Fighter Jet for no obvious reason. Don't know if a video about this would be possible
A very well done video, which completely answers any possible questions related to the "hold", and "taxi" positions of the offending aircraft. Someone owes Ground Control, and other supportive personnel a beer, at the very least, for their yeoman's effort in keeping a bad situation from going straight to hell.
(hat's off to the Air France A380, and, again, Ground; a damn fine job where all are concerned)
It would have been great to have heard some "Kennedy Steve, straight from the peanut gallery" commentary. I'm certain the term 'winglet enema' would have then been coined.
One Eyed Willy oh I love videos like that, that would be very interesting.
LOL at Air Berlin wanting to sneak in before the Air France by accepting the intersection departure!
And why not? If Air France can't do the intersection and Air Berlin can then they will depart while Air France taxies into position. Air France will not be delayed any further and Air Berlin will be out of the airport reducing congestion for everyone. Everyone would win in that situation. When controllers refuse to allow an aircraft to depart because they are "in sequence" behind an aircraft that can't depart it just makes the delay worse for everyone.
I've been held on the ground for over an hour staring at a perfectly good runway that no one was using due to thunderstorms and IFR clearances that had nothing to do with my VFR flight. A waste of everyone's time.
Joshua Landry On this particular case though, AirBerlin says they'd need 5 minutes to ready, so them doing an intersection departure probably wouldn't really save anyone time unless AirFrance got delayed while taxiing.
Air Berlin indicated ready for take off in 5 minutes at 5:00, 2.5 minutes later, at 7:30 Air France still talking about intersection departure, so they wouldn`t have crossed runway 22R at this point. (And the audio might be compressed). I bet for the time they taxi down to Yankee, than Echo and line up on 22R for full length, Air Berlin would be halfway home if they take off from the intersection. Also, Air Berlin was a Heavy, Air France is Super, it makes sense to let the Heavy take off, the Super has to wait less behind him than the other way around.
I feel like a huge dope whenever i've dented a car. I can't imagine the level of mortification doing that with an airplane.
The life of a plane is so lonely... never to touch another plane. To do so is taboo and forever forbidden. 😞 . ✈️💥🛩
jesus so many planes and radio calls, and this is only a small section of the airport! ATC guys must have the mental capacity of starcraft 2 pros to be able to keep up with all of this.
oldfrend only with transponders that work on the ground nowadays
Air France were too busy being extremely French to deal with this today.
Very true 😂😂
Oui
Oui oui Monsieur
Why the heck would they want to take off an A380 at an intersection.
Well, at least they didn't get fried.
N175AN was the first 757 I flew 2 years back! Hope it has a quick recovery!
Just outrageous!! So many wingtip strikes in one day! Look at that Air France hit JetBlue at 5:02 and shortly after he continues to obliviously ram both Virgin and Delta! Wtf?? Same for the Air Berlin - madness!!
I'm assuming this is a joke
Looks like hit and fly
Lol VIR4C got hit by the egyptair recently and he was in this video
Came here to say this. Poor guy is having no luck.
First rate coverage! Thanks for the hard work.
a very great video! i love the time stamp and those details positions! looking forward to see that in future videos :)
Thanks for watching, Gabriel :)
I can just imagine what the radio conversations are like as I'm zooming around the airport runways in Grand Theft Auto.
On August 18th at 9:20 am at jfk airport I was on a delta flight to to pbi. The woman sitting next to me worked for the Port Authority and called the ATC tower and had our flight skip the taxi line and take off first....I'd love to hear that audio of our regional jet passing 15 planes waiting in line
Nice work on putting this together!!!
Thanks to your hard work, I enjoy watching your clips
Thanks for the great video, and the quick upload. Very interesting to see what actually took place here.
Kudos to VASAviation, really well done with the animation. Thanks for the hard work.
Good thing no delays and hiccups.. Good job to the pilots and ground staff on coordinating the ground and put safety at first
Another quality video. Love these guys
I love you love the video :D
Very nice job, you keep making your videos even better!
loving the new map!
Awesome visualization and video
Thanks for watching! :)
Very well edited, thank you.
Thank you, Daniel.
That was an excellent video. You really do great work.
Thank you, appreciate it! :)
so basically they touched tips?
That's correct.
But just the tips. And only for a minute.
...or ouch, ouch, your on my hair
Wingtip of (green in video) hit horizontal stabilizer/elevator of the (purple in video) plane.
Control surface damage of the (purple in video) would ground the aircraft until repairs complete. This repair would be extensive, getting into significant checks of the hydraulic control systems, elevator hinges and adjustable stabilizer controls. Possibly $hundreds of thousands$ in repairs.
Winglet damage of the other aircraft most likely also had it grounded until repaired.
And a VERY big black mark on the PIC and co-pilot's records for the (green in video) because they hit a stopped aircraft.
#planepornography
Air Berlin, not a bad airline. I had so many miles in their frequent flyer programme. Othrwise great maps and graphic - so easy for me to understand the navigation on the ground.
That must have been a big THUMP when you see the damage done, that wingtip just cut right through !
Would not have happened with Kennedy Steve working.
Steve actually had a wingtip collision.
@@HERBSMAN441 is there a video of this🤔
This was a really well done video!!!
Thank you! :)
737 NG doesn't have a position light on the tail either, that doesn't help. Just wingtips. All planes of the size should have a rear white nav light on each wingtip, AND the tail.
According to the graphic, the wingtips should've hit the terminal way before the wingtips collided (;
That bit of humor is oddly refreshing.
Hahaha that was good :D
ikr and afr007 just ran everyone over :D
Starting to think some of these graphics may not be perfectly to scale... Hard to tell though.
Kennedy Steve in the middle of things as usual! Great job VasAviation. Great work ATC. Delta--- why rush? Why not ask AA to move a bit further up or just wait?
Don't know if you take suggestions for videos but I was on United 510 EWR to SEA on July 22nd and we had a rejected takeoff for a door warning light. Thought it would be interesting to hear the radio conversation on that.
Nothing a little speed tape can't fix.
I don't understand why in this day and age all commercial planes haven't had small wide-angle cameras fitted into the vertical stabilizer with which the flight deck can see the entire width of the aircraft up to both wingtips. Wouldn't be terribly expensive, and would prevent 99% of these occurrences..
It could actually get quite expensive if there aren't any existing provisions. You'd need to modify the v/stab structure and fairings to accept a camera and lens, mount a tray in the equipment bay for some sort of camera LRU, and route a new harness (wireless tech isn't there yet). Then you'd hopefully be able to use an existing harness run from the back to the cockpit (to avoid drilling into the frames/seat rails for new brackets) but you'd still have to undress and unclip the whole harness run, install your new coax into the bundle, redress and clip. Most of this stuff is buried so you'd have to pull open floor panels to get access. Then you'd need new software and all of the engineering time for an STC. Probably cheaper to deal with a bent wingtip every few years until they replace the fleet with newer aircraft where cameras were included at design.
protoss2984 and do not forget the extra weight, in commercial flying, extra weight cuts down on earned revenue!
protoss2984 and do not forget the extra weight, in commercial flying, extra weight cuts down on earned revenue!
you1ubeify yeah and you'd think a 777 that talks directly to the engine manufacturer via satellite wouldn't be able to disappear either right. Wtf
Wide angle lens won't help much because of its distortion. Proximity sensor like in the car would be better.
AMAZING VIDEO!!!!
Thank you for watching
Hello from Australia =)
VAS! You're the best!
To bad the ground guy wasn't Kennedy Steve. He'd have had an awesome quip for those two planes
How much longer before Kennedy Steve retires? Are you going to record his last shift? He's going to be missed :(
Interesting how the comments focus on who's to blame and indicate it's nice the following planes had little delay. However there are still 500+ passengers in these 2 planes that now need to be put on standby and find seats on next flights, causing further disruption to both AA and DL. These are the largest losers in that situation.
I notice alot of miss communication by the pilots when reading back ATC instructions, be nice if the verbal communication was converted to text and shown on a screen in the cockpit. Im a pilot myself, and I know that while doing other tasks in the cockpit its easy to forget the array of instructions that ATC tells you, especially when they say it fast.
Sound like a great idea,text message if misunderstood by mouth look at text
7:07 ouch, an even bigger collision
If Steve on duty...
perfect example of the dominoe effect a small incident can cause
Holy shit that was some big chunks, that will cost a pretty penny to fix and all the money they loos while the planes are grounded as well.
This never would've happened with Kennedy Steve.
Yes where’s Kennedy Steve when you need him?
Spacial awareness is the job of the pilots..
The maps still could use some work with the taxi letter markings and some other tweaks here and there :)
Gerwin Bergsma go on google, type in, KJFK charts, you will then get all the charts for KJFK. Airport diagram, approach plates, etc.print off the
Airport diagram on A3 paper, then you can follow along with the soundtrack.
I guess ATC insisted on full length thinking "We had enough trouble today. I'm not gonna take responsibility if the short takeoff goes wrong."
Don't ATCs have a graphic that shows them plane sizes and positions? Basically like this video, but proper scale? I'd absolutely assume they have.
Watching JFK traffic makes me think how amazingly simpler things would be with VTOL airliners, haha.
They need some cameras/sensors on the the ends of the wings so they can avoid collisions like this.
Not really it’s the occasional pilot error avoided by proficiency and doing your job right
my first reaction : It's not KS in the tower ... lol
Maybe you could color the call signs (?) of aircrafts in the subtitles in the same color as the plane on the map, if someone uses someone else's call sign
So this is similar to the other KJFK wingtip collision with an EgyptAir and a Virgin Atlantic
Virgin 4C! What are the chances that that flight would be somewhat involved in 2 very similar, yet rate altercations, one of which being directly, and this one observing.
Hey VASAviation! I have a proposal. What about giving the exact time of the events happening in the video? Some type of a clock somewhere in the corner? I know it might be quite time-consuming but also very comfortable to watch. Consider please :)
Regards!
Is it not enough with the time stamps I showed? It is difficult to place a clock as the audio and video are not in real time.
VASAviation - i know the audio and animation is not in real time, that's the point. Between the chats when the break is long the clock would accelerate.
Where will these two airplanes get repaired? They obviously can't be flown.
Hey it's this Steve guy
Anyone know of any site or way to watch real-time ground movement of aircraft at a larger airport? Or any at all?
Why am I watching this at 1 am at night??
Because it's impossible to watch it at 1am in the day.
So who is at fault here? Delta or the ground traffic controller?
Looks like ground control's fault to me, trying to get too fancy trying to stack the departure line in parallel, but I'd love for someone with some expertise to weigh in, yeah.
Was there any disciplinary action taken against the Delta pilot or both aircraft at all?
Was that Steve on Ground?
Was it an honest misunderstanding that day or did someone push the limit here ?
Was the AA 757 written off?
They touched tips.
Andy Murray Kinky, like swords!!!
someone know where I can found the official report about this accident on NTSC?
the 2 dislikes are the two capitains that get kicked out after this collision
What would companies do to those pilots? What’s the industry norm?
Hey just one question cause im new to the airplanes world...
Do they hear the ATC with the same audio quality as we do in this vídeo or they have a clarer sound? My english isnt very good btw but i cant barely understand what they are saying without the subtitles.
I've had the same issue many times and have read that real radio is clear and understandable. I just can't imagine it sometimes, the recordings must be horrible artifacts of real life.
The recordings are probably giving you clear ATC because they have powerful transmitters while the aircraft often broadcast on weaker signals and the distance the guy recording this is from the airport would make the stronger signal of the ATC stand out.
So is ATC at fault here for stacking them?
Just the tip
And this is how the company I work for (selling spare aircraft parts/cannibalizing old airframes) makes money!
Can someone explain what AFR007 was talking about when He was mentioning calculations? I dont understand.
Jackson Fortune
He needed to recalculate to see if the length of the runway from the intersection would be enough for the plane. If it was, they could take off from there and save time.
Jackson Fortune - They have to enter the new shorter runway distance into the flight performance computer they use to see if there's enough take-off distance available. And when they do that, they have to re-enter all the other variables the computer needs (temperature, barometric pressure, fuel weight, PAX & cargo weight, engine de-rating, take-off flaps setting) before they can hit the 'calculate' button.
Commercial pilots just don't guess or 'wing it' when they take-off from a runway, especially if it's not full length.
Also, it's always better to take off full length because even if they can take off from shorter distance, it gives you an extra buffer/safety margin in case they have to reject take-off, especially at or near V1.
Couldn't you use fr24 or something similar for the airplanes?
I used it in playback mode to place the airplanes at their exact locations. Anyways, playback of Flightradar24 works so bad visually and planes start to crazy move all around sometimes.
back when air berlin was in business
wonder what that repair cost
Who's at fault? And (serious question) do the other pilots get mad at the guy who caused this or take in stride?
The aircraft that hit the other aircraft is at fault and the other pilots don't get mad at the guy who caused it.
So this was the Delta's fault, right? (I'm new to this,)
Like today car, airplane should have sensor around the body and give collision warning and automatic braking system to prevent such accident.
The should hang tires on the sides.
Yeah, Im thankful I'm not an ATC
Some costs !! Who paid and whose fault ? Or is spacing the responsibility of ATC ?
I am pretty sure it was fault of the delta 738, I think it's the pilot taxiing who is responsible for not driving into things, especially since you can see your wingtips in 738.
PIC is responsible for everything that happens with aircraft, but it's not big deal. Insurance will pay for damage.
American will file an insurance claim with Delta's insurer. All commercial aircraft are fully insured.
Jay Hsu Good to hear. I always wondered how similar these incidents are to car accidents.
no fault, shit happens the airlines fix their own planes.
well, pull out the MEL.
So who's fault is it? 290's for not sufficiently clearing his tail from Charlie? Or 2503 for moving without making sure he had clearance on his port side?
I'm curious about this too, and I'm surprised that nobody has laid out who was to blame in the comments. I'm no expert but this looks like ground control's fault, he instructed Delta to follow American by taxiing on Charlie and then left on Echo, then when American turned onto Fox-Bravo (after being instructed to follow the Airbus), Delta rightfully asked for clarification about whether to continue following American, or to taxi to Echo. Then ground control gives a nonsensical answer, saying to continue taxiing to Echo to start a new line, then says turn onto Fox-Bravo to follow American, which seem like contradictory instructions to me.
EDIT: Ah, now that I watch it again, I see that ground control wanted the Delta flight to wait on Echo until the American crossed Echo on FB, then to turn right onto FB behind the American. I still think this was probably ground control's mistake, he was just trying to stack too many flights up at once I think. And Delta probably assumed that ground control wouldn't have sent him to Echo unless he was sure there was enough clearance.
#JustTheTips
No Kennedy Steve?☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️
Just watched a wing tip collision with virgin4C😂
Whoops.
Is that what Billion Dollar bumper cars look like?
You think you hit a pole ? No, you don’t think genius ! 😂😂😂
The controller should not have crammed these large aircraft into that tight corner. And the pilot should not have accepted the controller's request, insisting to follow the aircraft ahead. Aviation,, small mistakes = large consequence.
ATC error, or pilot error?
In my opinion pilot error, first plane should have it's tail feathers well out of the way. I would think there would be plenty of room to do so. But we are looking at graphics made to show the collision and not to scale and that's my only input.
Wonder if anybody got a reprimand or thier liscence taken away.
probably had a massive bollocking & sent for re-training
Delta, “The Best Pilots in the World.”
2 aircraft with a combined length of ~280ft/85m taking up over 900ft/275m of taxiway? The AA would have had over 160ft/48m of taxiway in front of it if its ass was hanging out enough for the Delta to clip it, so why not at least move up or take the turn onto foxtrot-bravo like instructed?
That'll ruin your day and then some! Does anyone know what kind of penalty the captain can receive for this? If he's found responsible after the investigation of course. Thanks
There is no if. PIC is ultimately responsible for the aircraft he commands. I don't think anything serious will happen to him - it was a honest mistake, very hard to spot.
Nikola16789 Thanks
any patreon account to donate?
That's negative, sir, but thank you for the gesture :)
+VASAviation - you should open one. I'm sure many people would like to donate something. Unless you don't like getting some money for your hard work /s
got it, thanks for the great job
I actually have an account opened but not active. I will have to take a look and see how it works properly. Thanks for your comments and support. That's my great payment anyways :D
James Bond is sounding awfully French there!
Kennedy Steve ain't got no time for these noobs. He would personally go down there and slap those pilots for messing up his program.
Kennedy Steve is ground controller, this is tower frequency.
@@FrankyLon there can be Wingtip on ground
That's one busy Airport,there were a lot of planes lined up and waiting,I wouldn't have wanted to be a passenger in the plane that got clipped,I would say there was a considerable hold up,who's fault would that have been? Very good VASAviation and Thankyou.
Agnes T JFK isnt that busy actually compared to some other airports in the world that are much more efficient. They use standard radio phraesology, have modern ATC equipment and modern infrastructure in general. US aviation is just a mess.
lammie001 Thankyou for your reply,I'm surprised to hear that,I thought they would be Top Class.
Agnes T incidents like this , is what keeps aviation lawyers at work!
Agnes T an all-22 operation will cause that.
lammie001 a very bland comment, you must not get carried away with flightsim!
Nothing wrong with touching tips