In the novel, making Tom consigliere was a somewhat risky move after Genco's death. Adopted son or not, he was not a Sicilian, end of story. The other family's started to refer to the Corlrone family as "the Irish gang" because of Hagen's nationality. Vito never showed Tom the affection he did for his own sons growing up, but was also kinder to him. He never berated or spoke harshly to him ever, which was not the case with Sonny. Sonny never graduated high school so when Tom did Vito was quite proud, and even more so when Tom wanted to become a lawyer. Tom told Vito he never forgot what he said, "A lawyer with a briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns." After getting his law degree, Tom wanted to go to work for Vito right away. But Vito insisted he work for a year either in the public defender's or D.A's office to see "how the legal world really works". Tom showed skill as a lawyer and had offers to join firms, but for all that Vito had done for him Tom would stay with the family to the end. Tom was not only an orphaned kid that Sonny found, he was also on the verge of going blind from an ailment that his Mother also had when she died. Vito took him to the best eye specialists in New York and his vision was saved. Vito was very proud of "his son, the lawyer".
It wa portrayed that way in the movie too. After Mike introduces Tom to Kay at Connie's wedding, he says, He's not a Sicilian, but I think he's gonna be consigliere. And Sonny of course during that heated exchange with Tom expresses his lack of confidence in Tom as adviser because he wasn't Siclian.
I have the book, the first one, and I started it but haven't gotten back to it. I don't have time to read much and I've only gotten in a book or two in the last several years but I want that to be one of them. I have been wanting to reread Walden 2 again as well. I remember the gist but I lack the memory for the details. The only book I've found in years that I made myself read was the autobiography of Malcolm X. That was incredible. I gotta read the Godfather.
Here is the difference between Vito and Michael. Vito consoles Tom and talks with compassion. With Michael it's a brutal "You're out Tom". Which is why hundreds attended Vito's funeral and Michael died alone with a stray dog.
@Indio that makes no sense. When Michael died, he was an old man back in his family’s home land. Based on his look, Michael most likely outlived ANYONE significant whom would have been willing to be there at his funeral. And how many would be willing or able to travel to another country for a funeral. When Vito died, everyone whom mattered minus Sonny were alive and in attendance.
@@peanutmansemporiumofrandom7472 It makes perfect sense. Michael was alone because everyone deserted him. They deserted him because he was a brutal and cold-hearted man. That's probably why he ended up in Sicily. Nothing to stay in the US for.
@@peanutmansemporiumofrandom7472 your comment makes no sense. If age is the reason how come Vito died old, with a lot of people attending his funeral. But then you say it’s because Michael was in Sicily. Well if Vitos funeral was held in Sicily I know he would’ve had people still come to his funeral and perhaps maybe more people.
mep41376 knowing what they know now, and all the DVD bonus materials, maybe it woulda been longer. but Coppola was still pretty much an unknown and they weren't taking chances
Michael had two reasons for cutting Tom out. #1 Sonny was too willing to fight an open war. Tom was the opposite extreme. He would cut a deal every time to preserve the family. Michael realized that nothing except eliminating the 5 families would guarantee the Corleone dynasty survived. But he also knew he had to do it in a sneaky way. Also Michael truly didn't want dirt on Tom. He knew they would eventually go to Vegas and he needed to be the legitimate front for the family. If you remember Michael says he trusts Tom with his life. It was not personal. It was business and Michael knew how Tom could best serve the family.
My interpretation was also that Michael kept Tom insulated in case he ever REALLY needed Tom, the way he ended up needing him in Godfather II to watch his family after the bungled hit. If everyone thinks Tom is not in the loop he won't be targeted like he was by Sollozzo.
Except he wasn't targeted by Solozzo "w you're not in the muscle-end of the family, Tom, so I don't want you to be scared" He knows Tom is a representative for the family, a source of calm in a way.
Tom should have seen the trap for what it was: a trap. He didn't and did not stop Sonny from going. As Consiglere he failed. *That* is why Mike cuts him out.
Really shows the contrast in what kind of Don Michael is. Vito was so warm and comforting while explaining to Tom, while Michael is cold and gives orders, “you’re out Tom.”
Vito was nicer ecause he was old Michael takes the family to new heights and corrects vitos mistakes Michael is betrayed by fredo who despises michael because of vito who doesn't consider fredo boss worthy so again that points to vito Vito is actually to blame for the family downfall but he isn't there to see it as he dies before hand The mess from the first movie continues on to the second
+razbigranicu He tells Tom that he's not good enough basically. "I never thought you were a bad consigliere, but I thought Santino was a bad Don". It's a clever way of letting someone go without hurting their ego.
In the Book The Don & Michael were very smart. They offered Carlo & Connie a Home in The Mall, Carlo had quieted down and knew his place in the family and kept to it, he made Carlo & Connie think he didn't blame them for Sonny's Death and even stood Godfather to their Baby. Connie & Carlo thought they were on Easy Street and then boom, they both pay big time bad.
I read the book, and I know what happened. Kay was so Stupid where she put her whole life on hold even when Mama Corleone told her "Mikey No The Man For You Anymore!" She's the Poster Girl for Smart Women Foolish Choices.
In this scene we get insight into the difference between Vito and Michael's leadership. Michael is unsympathetic and direct. Vito, while also tough, ameliorates Tom's hurt feelings, inviting him to sit down and smoothing things over. Michael re-establishes his newly found power, with the cutting remark, "You're out, Tom." This coldness would be a throughline in GFII, and would ultimately bring Michael to his internal ruin.
Vito was retired. He could be nice. Didn't Vito humiliate the fuck out of that Frank Sinatra guy when he was crying? And he slapped him. How is that for compassion?
I love Al “No Lines” Neri. This scene actually gave some much needed details on him: He was the only one who Michael didn’t need a buffer, as Willi Cicci called it, despite only being half a caporegime. He was the complete opposite of Luca Brasi, despite Don Vito’s comparison. Slender, quiet, calm, collected and certainly not nervous when talking to his higher ups. Despite Neri being an ex-cop, he is extremely well liked and respected and, if I’m right, is the only Corleone family member to survive right to the very end. (Debatable, of course, as it is not made clear whether Michael fell off the chair before him)
Paulito H which is in fact fictional because, an ex-cop can’t become a gangster. That’s why you never hear of ex-cop captains or bosses, or even soldiers. They can only be associates, no more.
At the end of this scene Tom looks back at Michael and says” You have learnt everything from your father, however you are yet to learn how to say NO to others”. That is when godfather teaches Michael how to say no to others while making it look like a yes. Classic scene
yes, it's a shame that Robert Duvall and Francis Ford Coppola could not come to a monetary agreement to bring him back for Godfather 3 instead of having him die off screen. I think he would have been a better character than adding the lawyer that George Hamilton played or a better villain than Don Altobello if they had him betray Michael.
Just imagine how hard Michael's life was. Now I understand he saved the family but in doing so he lost His wife that was murdered than lost his second wife in a divorce,his relationship with his son His daughter was murdered right in front of him. Also he murdered his brother lost his older brother and was betrayed by the catholic church when he was trying to do right. He died a lonely man and lost everything. Last but not least he was a decorated WW2 hero so you know he lost some of his buddies from war, THE GODFATHER will always be my favorite movie of all time.
Yeah makes you wonder what the point is, if at the end of the day you work too hard and don't enjoy life, all that work is for nothing if you cannot take some pleasure out of it and die after such a sad, stressful and tragic existence
I think there's a two-fold reason for Michael leaving Tom out: The first, obviously stated, was that Tom was not a wartime consigliere. The book describes how Tom had failed in Sonny's death and how Genco (Vito's old consigliere) would have never made that mistake. Tom would not be fit as consigliere in a time where they are plotting revenge. Second, is that Vito and Michael are trying to keep their plan to wipe out the other Dons as discrete as possible, even amongst the caporegimes. Vito knows that someone close in the Corleone family is going to betray them (he tells Michael this when they have a chat in the garden). When Tom replies "I'm talking about Rocco Lampone building a secrete regime" it means that he has begun to catch on that Michael and Vito are up to something. Earlier, Michael forbids Clemenza and Tessio to recruit new men, so they leave thinking that the Corleone family is weak and will not retaliate. Tom is able to see past this, so his frustration is not just having to become a lawyer and step down from consigliere, but that Michael and Vito are doing things behind his back.. This will prove dividends later as Tessio is the traitor, and in Godfather Part 2 Michael hands over leadership to Tom for a while, knowing he can fully trust him.
He didn’t fail on protecting Sonny, in fact sonny screwed up everything by leaving the house without protection, tom sent some guys after him, but they couldn’t catch Sonny, that wouldn’t happen to genco only because Vito was way smarter and calm than sonny.
This scene was restored in "The Director's Cut" and in The Godfather Chronicles. Almost ALL the deleted scenes could have been left in and the audience would have LOVED them. The deleted scenes followed the novel and added subtle details to every character.
what they did was to protect Tom, they valued him personal and business wise. Michael explained that to him in part II after the shooting in his house before appointing him acting Don
This is my opinion but I think that Tom's value lay in that he not only was an excellent lawyer but also that publicly he presented a clean image for the family far from the one represented by the mobsters that worked for the family. He had the mark of legitimacy and respectability don Corleone wanted for Michael. Even when Tom was working behind the scenes involved with the family's dirty business, publicly he was portrayed as the family's lawyer. Had Tom been exposed or gotten into trouble with the law he could have been disbarred and kept from representing the family. He then would be a less effective asset for the family. Tom's been a loyal member of the family from the beginning and to replace him with an outsider would pose a great risk. Tom and Michael needed to be clean to attain for the family the prestige or legitimacy of the pezzonovantes.
Aside from Hagen's fitness as a wartime consigliere, there was an important, technical reason for leaving him out of the vendetta. He was present as consigliere when Don Vito gave his word not to take revenge...personally. Hagen was an implicit partner in Vito's pledge, so keeping him separate from MIchael's power play honored the old Don's oath. Note that Vito never promised that HIS FAMILY wouldn't pursue a vendetta. This stratagem is the central plot point for the entire bleeping movie and story.
Can't be... oh so keeping tom out proved Vito's word but Vito becoming consigliere is ok?? Vito didn't give a fuck about his promise at the meeting. He knew Michaels plan and knew it would work.
Moreno12 Vito gave a fuck about his promise at the meeting. He would never break that promise. It was Barzini who plotted Michaels death after Vito's funeral. Barzini and the families broke the promise by trying to make this meeting . Not Vito or Michael.
Michael shook his head decisively. “You’re out, Tom.” Tom finished his drink and before he left he gave Michael a mild reproof. “You’re nearly as good as your father,” he told Michael. “But there’s one thing you still have to learn.” “What’s that?” Michael said politely. “How to say no,” Hagen answered.
You’re right. The book does more than a whole piece on introducing the reader to who Al Neri is. It even goes as far as telling us how the Don was able to reign in Luca, he gives this same advice to Mike. “Luca was scary to everyone else, but I was scary to Luca” was the gist of it.
@@littleladyinlalaland1749 In the book, Don Corleone tells Michael the following: "The idea is that since he does not fear death and indeed looks for it, then the trick is to make yourself the only person in the world that he truly desires not to kill him. He has only that one fear, not of death but that you may be the one to kill him. He is yours then.” I guess we interpret that differently.
Noodles37UK Vito was proud of Tom for having noticed the build-up of the Lampone regime. In the novel, after Vito makes the peace with Tattaglia (and Barzini), he tells Tom “Even though you’re not a Sicilian, I made you one.”.
Anna Vajda in the novel, after Tom leaves, Michael tells his father that hitting all the other Families is “the right thing to do. Tessio and Tom are right about the Barzinis.”
I remember when Michael suggested killing Solozzo and the Police Captain. Everyone laughed at him (Sonny, Tessio and Clemenza) the only one who didn't and was pissed off that they were was Tom. Tom always had respect for Michael cause he was pragmatic like himself. In all honesty they had the most in common out of all of Vito's kids. I've never understood why Michael disrespected such a loyal guy.
In contrast to the other men in the room, Tom didn't find Mike's proposal of assassinating Sollozo and McClusky amusing at all, largely because he knew Vito would be beyond pissed if Mike became implicated in the family business, even though of this what eventually happened. If you remember the scene after the don was shot and Sonny instructs Mike to "get a couple of guys and wait at Luca's apartment," Tom interjects and says, "maybe we shouldn't get Mike involved in this too directly." Moreover, in the very last scene of the second movie that flashes back to when they were young and Mike announces that he has dropped out of college to join the service, Tom lets Mike know that this is against the don's wishes and says, "he and I have discussed your future many times." tom knew better than anyone that the last thing the don would have wanted was for Michael to become involved in organized crime. Because he was the youngest son, Michael was his last hope for the family to become legit.
You have to bear in mind too that killing MCClusky was contrary to what Tom had just advised Sonny to do, because he thought that in doing so it would have "disastrous" consequences.
The novel goes deeper into that predicament. Puzo wrote that "The lowliest street cop could slap around a high-ranking Mafioso and there was little they could do about it. A reprisal could be costly, perhaps deadly. One day they could wake up and find that all their gambling and prostitution operations had been raided and shut down, and some of their people would be arrested and then shot by the police, claiming that they had assaulted an officer while resisting arrest."
The novel goes deeper into that predicament. Puzo wrote that "The lowliest street cop could slap around a high-ranking Mafioso and there was little they could do about it. A reprisal could be costly, perhaps deadly. One day they could wake up and find that all their gambling and prostitution operations had been raided and shut down, and some of their people would be arrested and then shot by the police, claiming that they had assaulted an officer while resisting arrest."
I like how Vito points out that Tom was smart enough to notice what was going on with Rocco. It makes me think that Michael argued with his dad over this, believing that he could hide it from Tom.
Michael is a smart lad. He tested Tom loyalty by going that far and yet Tom still stayed loyal to them despite what he did, which is why I think in the book Tom was Don for a bit after a failed assassination attempt on Michael. In addition, not only does Michael trust Tom the most, he also didn't want Tom to get involved in dirty work since he would've been one of the top on the hit list from the rival families. Michael knew this, so he kept him out from bad side of the Mafia, saving a good valuable asset/friend in the process that has good connections in politics as well
I haven't read the sequel books, if there is such, but that's the one thing I love about Tom's character. He took the distance from Mike & the outburst of Sonny better than the blood brother Fredo.
Neri was in prison for killing a man who was trying to kill his wife. In the book they entered into the racial aspects of the police and blacks. Neri was called for a domestic dispute and ended up being railroaded into prison. Mike got him out and Neri showed his loyalty by killing the man on the court house staircase. Neri's words where "the outside world didn't appreciate his loyalty but Mike did and showed it in so many ways . Why shouldn't his children go to the best college's in the country?"
@Tom Ross TV well, if you consistently act like that, i dont think your family would want anything to do with you. That's what happened in the story too.
This scene is still there!Don’t know what you’re talking about!I watched the whole Trilogy during the weekend.The Scene where Tom is cutted out it is still there!
You all are right. In the original movie the part about Rocco's people being paid more was cut. Since the release of the directors cut the extra scenes have been televised.
Godfather 1&2 are such masterpieces, I was 12 years old when the first one came out in the 70s. I have watched those two movies at least 5000 times. The best 2 movies ever made and it's not even close.
They needed to keep Tom honest and clean. They were going to rub out the traitors. If he knew, it would compromise his integrity and usefulness to the organization.
Somebody once said, a good movie is made up of memorable moments, well, there you are. Such a shame this scene was deleted. It's a great one, full of symbolism and significance, like when the Don tells the new boss of the family, his son Michael; "I think you've found your Luca Brassi", and the acting, well, what can be said that it hasn't been said countless times, top-notch to say the least. Thank you for posting.
It was a good call to leave out the "you've found your Luca Brasi" line in the original cut since Neri is totally not fleshed out well in the movie, unlike the book.
“You’re out, Tom.” Cold. I would’ve loved to see the Corleone Family civil war that was planned for the third film. Michael vs Tom, for the soul of the Family. Would’ve been epic. They should’ve just paid Mr Duvall and not insulted him. He was the bigger star at the time, not Pacino. Lonesome Dove was far better than part 3. Mr Duvall was on a roll at the time.
Tom Hagen was cut off because he was useless as a wartime consigliere and also because Michael needed him as his personal lawyer for when they moved to Vegas. This is what happened in the books, I am not speaking for the movie.
@@saintlouis1087 Yeah definitely worth the read, the last line of the book is the best last line in a novel ever, the meaning goes so deep once you’ve read the book
What I loved about this scene was that Don Corleone didn't interfere or undermine Michael's decisions. Also keep in mind that in comparison to The Don's Old Office, Michael had it decorated to suit "his" purposes. Also look at how they have a TV Set and back in the day they didn't.
"There are reasons why you must have no part in what's to come." Earlier: "Well Kaye, if I accept that, then in a court of law they could prove I have knowledge of Michael's whereabouts." Tom was cut out because Vito and Michael were making plans that their lawyer couldn't be in on in any way. They were looking out for him as much as themselves by keeping his legal ethics intact so he could represent them later.
Tom really wasn't a war time consigliere as he didn't anticipate most of their enemies tactics. He couldn't even piece together who was behind it all after the five families meeting. He was smart and cunning just not a cunning and vicious as Sicilian mafioso. Also Mike needed an "insurance"for the family; in the Book, he tells Vito that he's found Fabrizio to which Vito replies that it's time to act and Mike responds by saying that he'd wait the birth of his second child (a son in the book) just to make sure. Even during his "proposal" to Kay in the book he implies that she might end up a "rich widow" because he knows if he fucks up with his plan he's done for. Therefore I believe mike and Vito saw the necessity to leave Tom out in order to preserve not only the business but also the blood relatives.
There in-line the major difference between vito and Michael; vito is about respect and Michael, thanks in part to his military service, is about authority. Vito sits with Tom to explain after tom struggles to accept it, Michael just dismissively says "you're out tom." Vito dies with his grandchild playing with him in the garden and Michael dies surrounded by dogs, the only living entity that really has unconditional loyalty.
My feelings were that Vito had originally planned for Tom, not Sonny, to be, in effect, the godfather, controlling the movements of Sonny behind the scenes. Sonny was to be only a figurehead as Vito desperately wanted his family to become legit and non-criminal. After Sonny died and Michael was thrust in the forefront, Vito knew that wouldn't happen. Michael was much smarter, calculated and colder than Sonny, and his father knew that no one, including Tom, could sway him once he made a decision. Michael had become Vito, only worse. The scene shows the transfer of power from Vito (and Tom) to Michael.
Hunny shut the fuck up ab things you have no clue about. go back to rainbow bright and punky brewster. there has never been an italian Don. Every1 knows that. dumbass
You don’t send your star player to get hurt on plays that are too risky unless it’s absolutely necessary. Tom was too valuable. The family knew what they had in him. People like Tom don’t come by too often in your life. He was wise and loyal to a fault. He lived and breathed the Corleone family. In simple terms, they basically benched him to save him for the championship game.
I love how Vito reassures Michael and Tom in this scene. Even towards the end of his life the guy was still a master at manipulating and keeping people in line completely calmly without threats or violence. Such a difference from the way Michael maintains his power, albeit just as effective if not more so.
The impression I got from the movie was that Michael always had private beef about Tom that was never explained nor openly indicated, but the way he spoke to him in this movie and Godfather part II was unpleasant for a man valued by his father and supposedly a brother who hadn't done anything wrong or against Michael. The only time he spoke nicely to him is when he used him. Had Tom's character been different then Michael would have been creating an enemy out of his most loyal family member. Ultimately Tom might then have arranged to switch sides and aid a hit on Michael. Not good business!
+Kohl423 Excellent analysis. Also, I think that part of Michael never "forgave" Tom for talking to The Don about his future behind his back, especially after he announced he had joined The Marines. It was his way of saying "I can make whatever decision I want with My Father and I don't need you as my Mouthpiece."
Part 3 originally was suppose to be about Mike and Tom finally coming to blows with each other but a pay dispute between Duvall and the studio changed all that. In part 2 we see what Tom wanted most was to truly feel like he was "family". Sonny while he had a temper had an equally big heart and acknowledged Tom as a brother. Mike on the other hand seemed to always have an "arms distance" relationship with Tom.
+Kohl423 I disagree. Their relationship wasn't as good as between Sonny and Tom, but they loved each other and Michael trusted Tom above anyone else, enough to make him acting Don in Part 2. Things were strained later on because Michael had been betrayed by so many people and it was taking a toll. Tom disagreed with how far Michael went, but he was loyal. I don't think Michael was petty enough to hold a grudge like that.
Kevin Davis No it didn't come out in TV version either I've seen this film 1000 times all this is deleted footage never before seen I had the entire collection
He cut him out because Tom was with Vito when he vowed that he wouldn't be the one to break the peace. That's the only reason Tom was out during what was happening. Tom was Consigliere to Vito when he vowed not to break the peace.
In the book/novel, Tom says to Michael that he came to understand why he was cut out after he put on his Sicilian hat. So, Tom was dejected at first, but got it later. No problem.
Mike didn't have to be so cold to Tom about it. " you're out tom" . If it wasn't for the nice things Vito said if you were Tom you'd think they thought you weren't worth a shit
Probably a smart move to use his dad. Saved his life with Tessio’s meeting. I thought Michael explains this to Tom in 2. He needed somebody close not in the loop so he could 100% trust him. That’s why he turns to Tom after the botched hit.
Can’t sully Tom’s hands in the dirty part of the business? I suppose up to now Tom has been running the family’s charities, filing taxes, and helping Italian immigrants find jobs & learn English. Yes, he’s the one to put a legitimate face on the gang.
Unsympathetic to the Consiglieri "You're out Tom." What a gut punch for all his years of service to the family. Tom was not wrong to point out Neri not going through him or a Caporegime
I thought that Tom was pushed out for the reason that he was too established. At that point he had been Vito's advisor for a while. He was also his adopted son, and had been around a while longer than Michael. The men all knew Tom, and trusted him. Now Michael enters the picture. He's relatively inexperienced, and hasn't paid the dues that Tom has. There was the danger that people were going to start looking at Tom when they had problems instead of looking to Michael. Michael HAD to have the sole respect of the men under him. Vito could handle the reduced role, and could get people to take Michael seriously. Tom being who he was would probably have been tempted to fix things himself, which would have led to problems down the line.
That's like saying a masterpiece wood sculpture shouldn't leave any shavings on the floor. It is a masterpiece precisely because they knew where to cut.
The real reason Tom was cut out was that Vito and Michael were planning the assassination of the 5 families at this point. They knew Vito was sick and would die soon and that Michael had a limited amount of time before the other families would strike against Michael. Michael plays the role of the incapable young son while plotting their demise with his father. Tom was not to be implicated in any way and was taken out of the equation. No one but Vito and Michael knew of the plan until the last moment. They knew there were moles in the family and could not let the information seep out until they were found and taken care of. A very smooth operation. They finally found out the traitor was Tessio and the plan went forward.
They needed Tom outside and they needed him clean if things go south. The power of deniability is what they gave Tom. If anything, he was promoted, not rejected.
Tom never figured out Barzini was the real power behind Solozzo. Mike realized this when he went to the hospital and all the guards were gone. "No Tessio's men. Nobody" - the groundwork for Tessio's betrayal later since nobody called the Corleone family to tell them the police pulled them off their posts. Despite Vito saying "I never considered you a bad Consigliere", he and Michael actually did think that because of is failure to find out about Barzini.
ulphil08 it was not his job to find out. the capos like Clemenza and Rocco should have smelled something bad from Tessio. Whoever the tutticapo was (underboss) they should have figured that out. the consingliere is not the one that does this
Tessio's men were removed only "ten minutes ago" according to the nurse. They didn't have cellphones back then bruh. Then McKlusky comes by and says he locked them all up. So yeah, had nothing to do with Tessio's betrayal. I don't think Tessio would have ever tried to betray Vito.
Any ill feelings Tom may have had about Michael's curt dismissal of him did not linger as evidenced by their relationship in Godfather II. However, when Tom (Robert Duvall) was asked to reprise his role in Godfather III, he wanted the same amount of money that Michael (Al Pacino) was to get. Coppola refused his offer and reprised Michael's "You're out, Tom" effectively writing him out of the Corleone family. By that time Duvall already had won a best actor Oscar for "Tender Mercies" and could name his price for any film he acted in.
alphabetsoup342 on the contrary, he couldn't, that's why he did NOT get picked up for III. And 3 would've never been as good as the otehr 2, with or without him... please
alphabetsoup342 it's his own fault. He never was a top character in the films, 1 was brando Caan, and of course Pacino. Two was Pacino Deniro then maybe Duvall. How could he demand equal money as Pacino? Not saying he isn't a great actor, but he never commanded much in these movies. I'm sure he would've made tons but he wanted to get greedy and got nothing. Sure one could say 3 isn't as great, but Pacino got paid and that's it...
alphabetsoup342 history knows III as a great movie that didn't match up to the first two but it never would have... compared to the first two it fails, but overall its a good movie and people will always know it. What did Duvall do instead? If you manage to look it up quickly maybe I'll believe you already knew it... in other words, nothing memorable.. Pacino on the otehr hand, built a dynasty. And even on his worst movie, is remembered more than Duvall. Not to take away from Duvall, but Pacino commands that much more. Hence why I said Duvall should never have asked for Pacino money... peace
I read an interview with Robert Duvall in which he says that he didn't expect and didn't demand the same amount of money as Pacino, but he felt that offering him 1/10 -- I think that was the ratio he gave -- of the money they were paying Pacino just seemed like an insult.
I believe part of the reason to remove Tom from the front line of all illegal activities was also the Corleones wanted to move into legal Buissness eg politics and the plan was to have Tom be their main man maybe senator or even the White House That was the plan although it never happened as they could never leave that side of the Buissness as much as they tried
absolute classic. about as realistic as 'LORD OF THE RINGS' but still one of the greatest movies ever made. i literally don't even know how many times i've seen it. especially watching it the first time with all the deleted scenes included was incredible not so much because the deleted scenes were necessary or all that great but i'd seen it so many times as it is that getting to see anything "new" in it was awesome part one and two.
Michael basically had already killed carlo in this scene. His look when his father pinches Carlo's cheek is devastating. And as we later learn also extremely deadly.
@@thomasshort1784 Vito was subtle in every aspect. Until the moment he fires a bullet into a person's mouth or guts someone from groin to shoulder. But even then in that moment of extreme violence he demonstrates an impressive amount of self control.
This is a great scene that ties into GF II and Michael's relationship with his adopted brother. Vito advised Michael as he claims before making sure he explains to Tom that he has as much confidence in Tom as he does in Michael and that he was the one that advised Michael. Vito planned ahead and advised Michael to keep Tom legitimate and on a need-to-know basis until the time came. In GF II when the shit hits the fan or when the time finally comes Michael turns to Tom and tells him "I know I have kept things from you in the past and that has upset you but it was not for lack of trust. You're my brother and right now you are the only one that I can completely trust and so after being kept in the dark for these years it is YOU who are going to the Don while I'm gone, I'm giving you full control over everyone and trusting you with the lives and future of our family"
In the novel, making Tom consigliere was a somewhat risky move after Genco's death. Adopted son or not, he was not a Sicilian, end of story. The other family's started to refer to the Corlrone family as "the Irish gang" because of Hagen's nationality.
Vito never showed Tom the affection he did for his own sons growing up, but was also kinder to him. He never berated or spoke harshly to him ever, which was not the case with Sonny. Sonny never graduated high school so when Tom did Vito was quite proud, and even more so when Tom wanted to become a lawyer. Tom told Vito he never forgot what he said, "A lawyer with a briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns."
After getting his law degree, Tom wanted to go to work for Vito right away. But Vito insisted he work for a year either in the public defender's or D.A's office to see "how the legal world really works". Tom showed skill as a lawyer and had offers to join firms, but for all that Vito had done for him Tom would stay with the family to the end. Tom was not only an orphaned kid that Sonny found, he was also on the verge of going blind from an ailment that his Mother also had when she died. Vito took him to the best eye specialists in New York and his vision was saved. Vito was very proud of "his son, the lawyer".
It wa portrayed that way in the movie too. After Mike introduces Tom to Kay at Connie's wedding, he says, He's not a Sicilian, but I think he's gonna be consigliere. And Sonny of course during that heated exchange with Tom expresses his lack of confidence in Tom as adviser because he wasn't Siclian.
Sadly, maybe the only "child" that little closer to vito expectation. As he wanted mikey to hold a position in government.
fukinWOPS
Wow!
I have the book, the first one, and I started it but haven't gotten back to it. I don't have time to read much and I've only gotten in a book or two in the last several years but I want that to be one of them. I have been wanting to reread Walden 2 again as well. I remember the gist but I lack the memory for the details. The only book I've found in years that I made myself read was the autobiography of Malcolm X. That was incredible. I gotta read the Godfather.
Here is the difference between Vito and Michael. Vito consoles Tom and talks with compassion. With Michael it's a brutal "You're out Tom". Which is why hundreds attended Vito's funeral and Michael died alone with a stray dog.
@Indio that makes no sense. When Michael died, he was an old man back in his family’s home land. Based on his look, Michael most likely outlived ANYONE significant whom would have been willing to be there at his funeral. And how many would be willing or able to travel to another country for a funeral.
When Vito died, everyone whom mattered minus Sonny were alive and in attendance.
@@peanutmansemporiumofrandom7472 It makes perfect sense. Michael was alone because everyone deserted him. They deserted him because he was a brutal and cold-hearted man. That's probably why he ended up in Sicily. Nothing to stay in the US for.
@@peanutmansemporiumofrandom7472 your comment makes no sense. If age is the reason how come Vito died old, with a lot of people attending his funeral. But then you say it’s because Michael was in Sicily. Well if Vitos funeral was held in Sicily I know he would’ve had people still come to his funeral and perhaps maybe more people.
You don’t die at your funeral lol
stupid dog. Vito’s funeral vs Micheal dying location.
You know a movie is great when even the deleted stuff is excellent...huh?
I agree. Especially this one.
mep41376 you nailed it!
mep41376 I've read that Coppola wanted this to be like almost 4 hours long, but the studio said fuck that
32alltheway Shit..I think a great movie can never be too long....but I get it.
mep41376 knowing what they know now, and all the DVD bonus materials, maybe it woulda been longer. but Coppola was still pretty much an unknown and they weren't taking chances
Michael had two reasons for cutting Tom out. #1 Sonny was too willing to fight an open war. Tom was the opposite extreme. He would cut a deal every time to preserve the family. Michael realized that nothing except eliminating the 5 families would guarantee the Corleone dynasty survived. But he also knew he had to do it in a sneaky way.
Also Michael truly didn't want dirt on Tom. He knew they would eventually go to Vegas and he needed to be the legitimate front for the family.
If you remember Michael says he trusts Tom with his life. It was not personal. It was business and Michael knew how Tom could best serve the family.
My interpretation was also that Michael kept Tom insulated in case he ever REALLY needed Tom, the way he ended up needing him in Godfather II to watch his family after the bungled hit. If everyone thinks Tom is not in the loop he won't be targeted like he was by Sollozzo.
Except he wasn't targeted by Solozzo "w you're not in the muscle-end of the family, Tom, so I don't want you to be scared" He knows Tom is a representative for the family, a source of calm in a way.
Wrong. Mike blamed Tom for Sonny getting wacked.
I disagree. How could that have been Tom's fault?
Tom should have seen the trap for what it was: a trap. He didn't and did not stop Sonny from going. As Consiglere he failed. *That* is why Mike cuts him out.
Really shows the contrast in what kind of Don Michael is. Vito was so warm and comforting while explaining to Tom, while Michael is cold and gives orders, “you’re out Tom.”
This is so true, it’s one of the main factors in Michaels downfall and eventual loss of his family.
You're FIRED!
Vito was a combo of the best attributes of the son. He had their strengths and not their weaknesses.
Yep
Vito was nicer ecause he was old
Michael takes the family to new heights and corrects vitos mistakes
Michael is betrayed by fredo who despises michael because of vito who doesn't consider fredo boss worthy so again that points to vito
Vito is actually to blame for the family downfall but he isn't there to see it as he dies before hand
The mess from the first movie continues on to the second
Vito is a great manipulator. He doesn't say to Tom "you have all my confidence" but "Michael has all my confidence as you do".
+razbigranicu He tells Tom that he's not good enough basically. "I never thought you were a bad consigliere, but I thought Santino was a bad Don". It's a clever way of letting someone go without hurting their ego.
+Fan Made Videos and Michael was setting up Carlo and moving on the 5 guys to be whacked had to be between Don and Michael only !
In the Book The Don & Michael were very smart. They offered Carlo & Connie a Home in The Mall, Carlo had quieted down and knew his place in the family and kept to it, he made Carlo & Connie think he didn't blame them for Sonny's Death and even stood Godfather to their Baby. Connie & Carlo thought they were on Easy Street and then boom, they both pay big time bad.
I read the book, and I know what happened. Kay was so Stupid where she put her whole life on hold even when Mama Corleone told her "Mikey No The Man For You Anymore!" She's the Poster Girl for Smart Women Foolish Choices.
@@laminage True enough, but it's just Carlo that pays. Connie remarries in the book.
c
This scene is no longer deleted. I watch the movie last Friday on AMC and every second of this was in it. Very jarring and sensible scene
If you're watching movies on AMC there is going to be all kinds of stuff deleted or dubbed over.
In this scene we get insight into the difference between Vito and Michael's leadership. Michael is unsympathetic and direct. Vito, while also tough, ameliorates Tom's hurt feelings, inviting him to sit down and smoothing things over. Michael re-establishes his newly found power, with the cutting remark, "You're out, Tom." This coldness would be a throughline in GFII, and would ultimately bring Michael to his internal ruin.
You spoke my mind
I don't know if was true, but, they said godfather's 3 original script was a feud between tom and michael.
Well said.
He ameliorates the fuck out of him
Vito was retired. He could be nice. Didn't Vito humiliate the fuck out of that Frank Sinatra guy when he was crying? And he slapped him. How is that for compassion?
Tom: why can't I help? I can be a great consigliere!
Vito: cuz I am the new consigliere...
This is exactly what Michael tells Tom in the book. "Who could be a better consigliere than my own father?" or so.
Original movie says that
Noticed how the scene ended; You keep your friends close, but your enemies closer? They kept Tom close, but Carlos closer.
@@Jurgen123445 that's in the movie too
Vito is semi retired, besides why would you need a conseliere when you’re at war? That’s like sending an ambassador during a war
I love Al “No Lines” Neri. This scene actually gave some much needed details on him:
He was the only one who Michael didn’t need a buffer, as Willi Cicci called it, despite only being half a caporegime.
He was the complete opposite of Luca Brasi, despite Don Vito’s comparison. Slender, quiet, calm, collected and certainly not nervous when talking to his higher ups.
Despite Neri being an ex-cop, he is extremely well liked and respected and, if I’m right, is the only Corleone family member to survive right to the very end. (Debatable, of course, as it is not made clear whether Michael fell off the chair before him)
Exactly, great analysis!
An ex cop???....🤣🤣🤣...that was a disguise he was wearing
He’s basically boba fett in mafia
@@jessejames3632 He was an ex cop though too says it in the book
Paulito H which is in fact fictional because, an ex-cop can’t become a gangster. That’s why you never hear of ex-cop captains or bosses, or even soldiers. They can only be associates, no more.
At the end of this scene Tom looks back at Michael and says” You have learnt everything from your father, however you are yet to learn how to say NO to others”.
That is when godfather teaches Michael how to say no to others while making it look like a yes.
Classic scene
What?
Tom Hagen was one of my fav characters. Loved the fact he was a adopted orphan with a law degree. And advisor to the family!
yes, it's a shame that Robert Duvall and Francis Ford Coppola could not come to a monetary agreement to bring him back for Godfather 3 instead of having him die off screen. I think he would have been a better character than adding the lawyer that George Hamilton played or a better villain than Don Altobello if they had him betray Michael.
@@billymuellerTikTok it was more paramount than Coppola, they were extremely tight on budgets at the time
Just imagine how hard Michael's life was.
Now I understand he saved the family but in doing so he lost
His wife that was murdered than lost his second wife in a divorce,his relationship with his son
His daughter was murdered right in front of him. Also he murdered his brother lost his older brother and was betrayed by the catholic church when he was trying to do right.
He died a lonely man and lost everything. Last but not least he was a decorated WW2 hero so you know he lost some of his buddies from war, THE GODFATHER will always be my favorite movie of all time.
Yeah you wonder how a movie with a title like The Godfather implies blessings but the family actually seemed cursed.
@@AnnaLVajda exactly
@James Moody I have
Yeah makes you wonder what the point is, if at the end of the day you work too hard and don't enjoy life, all that work is for nothing if you cannot take some pleasure out of it and die after such a sad, stressful and tragic existence
@@LovingTinha so a life of organised crime among hardcore sociopaths might not lead to a happy ending? Who'da thunk
I think there's a two-fold reason for Michael leaving Tom out: The first, obviously stated, was that Tom was not a wartime consigliere. The book describes how Tom had failed in Sonny's death and how Genco (Vito's old consigliere) would have never made that mistake. Tom would not be fit as consigliere in a time where they are plotting revenge.
Second, is that Vito and Michael are trying to keep their plan to wipe out the other Dons as discrete as possible, even amongst the caporegimes. Vito knows that someone close in the Corleone family is going to betray them (he tells Michael this when they have a chat in the garden). When Tom replies "I'm talking about Rocco Lampone building a secrete regime" it means that he has begun to catch on that Michael and Vito are up to something. Earlier, Michael forbids Clemenza and Tessio to recruit new men, so they leave thinking that the Corleone family is weak and will not retaliate. Tom is able to see past this, so his frustration is not just having to become a lawyer and step down from consigliere, but that Michael and Vito are doing things behind his back.. This will prove dividends later as Tessio is the traitor, and in Godfather Part 2 Michael hands over leadership to Tom for a while, knowing he can fully trust him.
How would Genco have stopped Sonny driving off..?
Wait , it’s not TOM fault, sonny got to the causeway like a thunderbolt
He didn’t fail on protecting Sonny, in fact sonny screwed up everything by leaving the house without protection, tom sent some guys after him, but they couldn’t catch Sonny, that wouldn’t happen to genco only because Vito was way smarter and calm than sonny.
Only thing Tom could do was advise Sonny, but ultimately Sonny was gonna do what he wanted to do anyway so Tom shouldn't be held accountable for that
This scene was restored in "The Director's Cut" and in The Godfather Chronicles. Almost ALL the deleted scenes could have been left in and the audience would have LOVED them. The deleted scenes followed the novel and added subtle details to every character.
“I never thought it was a bad scene but that it was a long movie. The Godfather has all my confidences as a great film as does this scene.”
what they did was to protect Tom, they valued him personal and business wise. Michael explained that to him in part II after the shooting in his house before appointing him acting Don
that’s romantic but it was really for Vegas. business.
This is my opinion but I think that Tom's value lay in that he not only was an excellent lawyer but also that publicly he presented a clean image for the family far from the one represented by the mobsters that worked for the family. He had the mark of legitimacy and respectability don Corleone wanted for Michael.
Even when Tom was working behind the scenes involved with the family's dirty business, publicly he was portrayed as the family's lawyer.
Had Tom been exposed or gotten into trouble with the law he could have been disbarred and kept from representing the family. He then would be a less effective asset for the family.
Tom's been a loyal member of the family from the beginning and to replace him with an outsider would pose a great risk.
Tom and Michael needed to be clean to attain for the family the prestige or legitimacy of the pezzonovantes.
Aside from Hagen's fitness as a wartime consigliere, there was an important, technical reason for leaving him out of the vendetta. He was present as consigliere when Don Vito gave his word not to take revenge...personally. Hagen was an implicit partner in Vito's pledge, so keeping him separate from MIchael's power play honored the old Don's oath. Note that Vito never promised that HIS FAMILY wouldn't pursue a vendetta. This stratagem is the central plot point for the entire bleeping movie and story.
VU33clear99 nice pick up. Never thought of it.
Can't be... oh so keeping tom out proved Vito's word but Vito becoming consigliere is ok?? Vito didn't give a fuck about his promise at the meeting. He knew Michaels plan and knew it would work.
Moreno12 Vito gave a fuck about his promise at the meeting. He would never break that promise. It was Barzini who plotted Michaels death after Vito's funeral. Barzini and the families broke the promise by trying to make this meeting . Not Vito or Michael.
Moreno12 He was never the official consigliere, therefore he never was consigliere.
Interesting...
Michael shook his head decisively. “You’re out, Tom.”
Tom finished his drink and before he left he gave Michael a mild reproof. “You’re nearly as good as your father,” he told Michael. “But there’s one thing you still have to learn.”
“What’s that?” Michael said politely.
“How to say no,” Hagen answered.
Yes most important part of the book that Coppola used for final scene with Kay.
I always felt that Al Neri was poorly introduced in the final cut of 1. Didn’t even notice he was a character until 2.
You’re right. The book does more than a whole piece on introducing the reader to who Al Neri is. It even goes as far as telling us how the Don was able to reign in Luca, he gives this same advice to Mike. “Luca was scary to everyone else, but I was scary to Luca” was the gist of it.
@@rickyhurtado the book never really has it make sense that luca was scared of vito though. luca was much scarier, no soul.
I agree. It makes you wonder how many other scenes were cut?
@@littleladyinlalaland1749 In the book, Don Corleone tells Michael the following: "The idea is that since he does not fear death and indeed looks for it, then the trick is to make yourself the only person in the world that he truly desires not to kill him. He has only that one fear, not of death but that you may be the one to kill him. He is yours then.”
I guess we interpret that differently.
At@ Zack a shame you must not have read the Novel
I told you this wouldn't escape his eye.
Noodles37UK Vito was proud of Tom for having noticed the build-up of the Lampone regime. In the novel, after Vito makes the peace with Tattaglia (and Barzini), he tells Tom “Even though you’re not a Sicilian, I made you one.”.
Praise to soften the rejection.
Anna Vajda in the novel, after Tom leaves, Michael tells his father that hitting all the other Families is “the right thing to do. Tessio and Tom are right about the Barzinis.”
I remember when Michael suggested killing Solozzo and the Police Captain. Everyone laughed at him (Sonny, Tessio and Clemenza) the only one who didn't and was pissed off that they were was Tom. Tom always had respect for Michael cause he was pragmatic like himself. In all honesty they had the most in common out of all of Vito's kids. I've never understood why Michael disrespected such a loyal guy.
In contrast to the other men in the room, Tom didn't find Mike's proposal of assassinating Sollozo and McClusky amusing at all, largely because he knew Vito would be beyond pissed if Mike became implicated in the family business, even though of this what eventually happened. If you remember the scene after the don was shot and Sonny instructs Mike to "get a couple of guys and wait at Luca's apartment," Tom interjects and says, "maybe we shouldn't get Mike involved in this too directly." Moreover, in the very last scene of the second movie that flashes back to when they were young and Mike announces that he has dropped out of college to join the service, Tom lets Mike know that this is against the don's wishes and says, "he and I have discussed your future many times." tom knew better than anyone that the last thing the don would have wanted was for Michael to become involved in organized crime. Because he was the youngest son, Michael was his last hope for the family to become legit.
You have to bear in mind too that killing MCClusky was contrary to what Tom had just advised Sonny to do, because he thought that in doing so it would have "disastrous" consequences.
The novel goes deeper into that predicament. Puzo wrote that "The lowliest street cop could slap around a high-ranking Mafioso and there was little they could do about it. A reprisal could be costly, perhaps deadly. One day they could wake up and find that all their gambling and prostitution operations had been raided and shut down, and some of their people would be arrested and then shot by the police, claiming that they had assaulted an officer while resisting arrest."
The novel goes deeper into that predicament. Puzo wrote that "The lowliest street cop could slap around a high-ranking Mafioso and there was little they could do about it. A reprisal could be costly, perhaps deadly. One day they could wake up and find that all their gambling and prostitution operations had been raided and shut down, and some of their people would be arrested and then shot by the police, claiming that they had assaulted an officer while resisting arrest."
Tom's missteps ultimately contributed to the loss of Sonny.
My favorite line in the whole movie. "I think you've found your Luca Brasi"... You can't buy love and loyalty.
What is that mean ? Vito is saying this for whom ?
Al Neri
Tom: Why am I out?
Michael: You don't have the makings of a varsity athlete, Tom.
Tom: Well...maybe I can help?
Michael: Why don't you go home and get your shinebox.
small hands that's his problem
Michael was going to kill everyone and he knew if Hagen knew that he would never support it.
Sopranos home movies
he's a hot house flower, that his problem
I like how Vito points out that Tom was smart enough to notice what was going on with Rocco. It makes me think that Michael argued with his dad over this, believing that he could hide it from Tom.
"I think you has found your Luca Brasi (Al Neri)"
.
.
Completely true.. Al Neri was very loyalty to the family
Michael is a smart lad. He tested Tom loyalty by going that far and yet Tom still stayed loyal to them despite what he did, which is why I think in the book Tom was Don for a bit after a failed assassination attempt on Michael. In addition, not only does Michael trust Tom the most, he also didn't want Tom to get involved in dirty work since he would've been one of the top on the hit list from the rival families. Michael knew this, so he kept him out from bad side of the Mafia, saving a good valuable asset/friend in the process that has good connections in politics as well
Michael also needed to keep Tom "clean" to handle the "legit" work that Michael keeps talking about repeatedly. Michael keeps Tom out of the mess.
what better consigliere than the retire Don himself?
You know TH-cam is good when unreleased clips you watch on it you swear where clips that were actually included in the original film
In the books, Tom remains loyal to the end. All the way to the end. It’s worth a look if you have time to read the novels.
I haven't read the sequel books, if there is such, but that's the one thing I love about Tom's character. He took the distance from Mike & the outburst of Sonny better than the blood brother Fredo.
Tom is out because he had a drug problem. He was always sniffing napalm in the morning.
Tom had my full confidence.
Lonely creepy guys with fake female acounts are far worse
Because it smells like victory!
Made me laugh
And to think he’s always seem so calm...
Poor Tom. Good thing years later he's given everything.
That extra added dialogue from the book on how he knew really makes Tom a more well rounded character.
If you read the book it really gets into the character Neri
Neri was in prison for killing a man who was trying to kill his wife. In the book they entered into the racial aspects of the police and blacks. Neri was called for a domestic dispute and ended up being railroaded into prison. Mike got him out and Neri showed his loyalty by killing the man on the court house staircase. Neri's words where "the outside world didn't appreciate his loyalty but Mike did and showed it in so many ways . Why shouldn't his children go to the best college's in the country?"
@@josephrincon9947 he killed a pimp not a husband
@@josephrincon9947 your talking about McCluskeys children going to the best colleges
“You’re out, Tom.”
That’s how you make a decision.
Being that cold is also how you eventually destroy your entire family,
@Tom Ross TV well, if you consistently act like that, i dont think your family would want anything to do with you. That's what happened in the story too.
The God father story probably relates to some real events of mob families. 🍷 so much in the details.
Bit harsh but necessary
This scene is still there!Don’t know what you’re talking about!I watched the whole Trilogy during the weekend.The Scene where Tom is cutted out it is still there!
The discussion is not as long.
Watch the movie again.
You all are right. In the original movie the part about Rocco's people being paid more was cut. Since the release of the directors cut the extra scenes have been televised.
It may have appeared in the "Godfathers chronicles"
Its a cut down version of it.
"Tom, you never had the makings of a varsity consigliere. Small hands, that was your problem"
He took an academic leave anyway.
I don’t have a coat
I dont want to hear it again END OF SUBJECT!!!☝️😠
@@TheBigMoof College? Some of those law students at Seton Hall were seven feet tall!
It's my house! I'll say what I want!
I've seen this scene, up to the point of Michael's, "I want to speak alone to my father." broadcast.
That statement I never heard in the movie before.
Godfather 1&2 are such masterpieces, I was 12 years old when the first one came out in the 70s. I have watched those two movies at least 5000 times. The best 2 movies ever made and it's not even close.
They needed to keep Tom honest and clean. They were going to rub out the traitors. If he knew, it would compromise his integrity and usefulness to the organization.
Somebody once said, a good movie is made up of memorable moments, well, there you are. Such a shame this scene was deleted. It's a great one, full of symbolism and significance, like when the Don tells the new boss of the family, his son Michael; "I think you've found your Luca Brassi", and the acting, well, what can be said that it hasn't been said countless times, top-notch to say the least. Thank you for posting.
It was a good call to leave out the "you've found your Luca Brasi" line in the original cut since Neri is totally not fleshed out well in the movie, unlike the book.
ironically Tom was the perfect corleone despite he isn't corleone
“You’re out, Tom.”
Cold.
I would’ve loved to see the Corleone Family civil war that was planned for the third film. Michael vs Tom, for the soul of the Family. Would’ve been epic. They should’ve just paid Mr Duvall and not insulted him. He was the bigger star at the time, not Pacino.
Lonesome Dove was far better than part 3. Mr Duvall was on a roll at the time.
Tom Hagen was cut off because he was useless as a wartime consigliere and also because Michael needed him as his personal lawyer for when they moved to Vegas. This is what happened in the books, I am not speaking for the movie.
The books worth reading?
@@saintlouis1087 Yeah definitely worth the read, the last line of the book is the best last line in a novel ever, the meaning goes so deep once you’ve read the book
What I loved about this scene was that Don Corleone didn't interfere or undermine Michael's decisions. Also keep in mind that in comparison to The Don's Old Office, Michael had it decorated to suit "his" purposes. Also look at how they have a TV Set and back in the day they didn't.
OH yes but you saw how Michael asserted himself as the "Head" of The Family
@61gisele what do you mean? TVs are existing from 1930.
@61gisele ok
"There are reasons why you must have no part in what's to come."
Earlier: "Well Kaye, if I accept that, then in a court of law they could prove I have knowledge of Michael's whereabouts."
Tom was cut out because Vito and Michael were making plans that their lawyer couldn't be in on in any way. They were looking out for him as much as themselves by keeping his legal ethics intact so he could represent them later.
Tom really wasn't a war time consigliere as he didn't anticipate most of their enemies tactics. He couldn't even piece together who was behind it all after the five families meeting. He was smart and cunning just not a cunning and vicious as Sicilian mafioso. Also Mike needed an "insurance"for the family; in the Book, he tells Vito that he's found Fabrizio to which Vito replies that it's time to act and Mike responds by saying that he'd wait the birth of his second child (a son in the book) just to make sure. Even during his "proposal" to Kay in the book he implies that she might end up a "rich widow" because he knows if he fucks up with his plan he's done for. Therefore I believe mike and Vito saw the necessity to leave Tom out in order to preserve not only the business but also the blood relatives.
When Vito says"I think you found your Luca Brasi", was he referring to Neri?
Yes. He was a former Cop who joined The Family.
Yes
yes he was. but in the book it was hagen who said it.
No, he was obviously referring to himself. He was just getting his strength back and wanted to get his hands dirty again. It's all well implied.
You have to be joking.
I think telling Tom he was out and his reaction and wanting to be in said for to Micheal and Vito, that they KNEW he could 100% be relied upon
🤣 That look Micheal gives Carlo when he's leaving. That I got other shit to handle but you're on the to do list regardless.
There in-line the major difference between vito and Michael; vito is about respect and Michael, thanks in part to his military service, is about authority.
Vito sits with Tom to explain after tom struggles to accept it, Michael just dismissively says "you're out tom."
Vito dies with his grandchild playing with him in the garden and Michael dies surrounded by dogs, the only living entity that really has unconditional loyalty.
Mike was kind of a douchbag honestly
From my perspective, an avid movie enthusiast, this scene should have definitely stayed in the movie.
My feelings were that Vito had originally planned for Tom, not Sonny, to be, in effect, the godfather, controlling the movements of Sonny behind the scenes. Sonny was to be only a figurehead as Vito desperately wanted his family to become legit and non-criminal. After Sonny died and Michael was thrust in the forefront, Vito knew that wouldn't happen. Michael was much smarter, calculated and colder than Sonny, and his father knew that no one, including Tom, could sway him once he made a decision. Michael had become Vito, only worse. The scene shows the transfer of power from Vito (and Tom) to Michael.
So, Vito without Vito's sympathy? Damn. That's a bad mother fucker!
Hunny shut the fuck up ab things you have no clue about. go back to rainbow bright and punky brewster. there has never been an italian Don. Every1 knows that. dumbass
@@uncasunga1800 Tom as Godfather??? LMAO. Rainbow bright and Punky Brewster...thanks for making my day.
Tom could never be Godfather as he’s not Italian, and his roots can’t be traced back to Italy.
You don’t send your star player to get hurt on plays that are too risky unless it’s absolutely necessary. Tom was too valuable. The family knew what they had in him. People like Tom don’t come by too often in your life. He was wise and loyal to a fault. He lived and breathed the Corleone family. In simple terms, they basically benched him to save him for the championship game.
I love how Vito reassures Michael and Tom in this scene. Even towards the end of his life the guy was still a master at manipulating and keeping people in line completely calmly without threats or violence. Such a difference from the way Michael maintains his power, albeit just as effective if not more so.
The impression I got from the movie was that Michael always had private beef about Tom that was never explained nor openly indicated, but the way he spoke to him in this movie and Godfather part II was unpleasant for a man valued by his father and supposedly a brother who hadn't done anything wrong or against Michael. The only time he spoke nicely to him is when he used him. Had Tom's character been different then Michael would have been creating an enemy out of his most loyal family member. Ultimately Tom might then have arranged to switch sides and aid a hit on Michael. Not good business!
+Kohl423 Excellent analysis. Also, I think that part of Michael never "forgave" Tom for talking to The Don about his future behind his back, especially after he announced he had joined The Marines. It was his way of saying "I can make whatever decision I want with My Father and I don't need you as my Mouthpiece."
+Kohl423 100% agree.
Part 3 originally was suppose to be about Mike and Tom finally coming to blows with each other but a pay dispute between Duvall and the studio changed all that. In part 2 we see what Tom wanted most was to truly feel like he was "family". Sonny while he had a temper had an equally big heart and acknowledged Tom as a brother. Mike on the other hand seemed to always have an "arms distance" relationship with Tom.
+Esokol88 yea tom vs mike would of been great dont underestimate Tom though he can pull a few tricks if you know what i mean
+Kohl423 I disagree. Their relationship wasn't as good as between Sonny and Tom, but they loved each other and Michael trusted Tom above anyone else, enough to make him acting Don in Part 2. Things were strained later on because Michael had been betrayed by so many people and it was taking a toll. Tom disagreed with how far Michael went, but he was loyal. I don't think Michael was petty enough to hold a grudge like that.
Hagen said to Micheal that he hasn't leaned to said no from his Father in the book, I wish the director had shot that scene.
I have seen this scene in the movie before. Was it removed later?
+R Paz You saw part of this scene before the beginning never made the movie
It's not in the theatrical release, so it must have been part of a TV broadcast.
Kevin Davis No it didn't come out in TV version either I've seen this film 1000 times all this is deleted footage never before seen I had the entire collection
What you and I saw as a short version of this scene
Ah,gotcha.Thanks man.
He cut him out because Tom was with Vito when he vowed that he wouldn't be the one to break the peace. That's the only reason Tom was out during what was happening. Tom was Consigliere to Vito when he vowed not to break the peace.
I don't know why Coppola cut out all these great scenes in Parts 1 and 2.
I'm glad I got to see them in The Godfather Epic on HBO
In the book/novel, Tom says to Michael that he came to understand why he was cut out after he put on his Sicilian hat. So, Tom was dejected at first, but got it later. No problem.
Refresh my memory as to what the actual reason was?
@@JnEricsonx I think it was a strategic reason, the plan to go legitimate
Mike didn't have to be so cold to Tom about it. " you're out tom" . If it wasn't for the nice things Vito said if you were Tom you'd think they thought you weren't worth a shit
Probably a smart move to use his dad. Saved his life with Tessio’s meeting. I thought Michael explains this to Tom in 2. He needed somebody close not in the loop so he could 100% trust him. That’s why he turns to Tom after the botched hit.
I am grateful to see these deleted scenes but I am glad that they are deleted scenes.
Tom was out because he would be a legitimate face of the Family . In a way it was a promotion .
Can’t sully Tom’s hands in the dirty part of the business? I suppose up to now Tom has been running the family’s charities, filing taxes, and helping Italian immigrants find jobs & learn English. Yes, he’s the one to put a legitimate face on the gang.
Unsympathetic to the Consiglieri "You're out Tom." What a gut punch for all his years of service to the family. Tom was not wrong to point out Neri not going through him or a Caporegime
I thought that Tom was pushed out for the reason that he was too established. At that point he had been Vito's advisor for a while. He was also his adopted son, and had been around a while longer than Michael. The men all knew Tom, and trusted him. Now Michael enters the picture. He's relatively inexperienced, and hasn't paid the dues that Tom has. There was the danger that people were going to start looking at Tom when they had problems instead of looking to Michael. Michael HAD to have the sole respect of the men under him. Vito could handle the reduced role, and could get people to take Michael seriously. Tom being who he was would probably have been tempted to fix things himself, which would have led to problems down the line.
You know TH-cam is good when clips of the deleted scenes are scenes you wear included in the actual film.
A masterpiece like The Godfather shouldn't have "deleted scenes".
That's like saying a masterpiece wood sculpture shouldn't leave any shavings on the floor. It is a masterpiece precisely because they knew where to cut.
@@xandercorp6175 well alot of the scenes were cut because of time constraints.
You're out Tom... from Godfather 3.
The real reason Tom was cut out was that Vito and Michael were planning the assassination of the 5 families at this point. They knew Vito was sick and would die soon and that Michael had a limited amount of time before the other families would strike against Michael. Michael plays the role of the incapable young son while plotting their demise with his father. Tom was not to be implicated in any way and was taken out of the equation. No one but Vito and Michael knew of the plan until the last moment. They knew there were moles in the family and could not let the information seep out until they were found and taken care of. A very smooth operation. They finally found out the traitor was Tessio and the plan went forward.
They needed Tom outside and they needed him clean if things go south. The power of deniability is what they gave Tom. If anything, he was promoted, not rejected.
Tom never figured out Barzini was the real power behind Solozzo. Mike realized this when he went to the hospital and all the guards were gone. "No Tessio's men. Nobody" - the groundwork for Tessio's betrayal later since nobody called the Corleone family to tell them the police pulled them off their posts. Despite Vito saying "I never considered you a bad Consigliere", he and Michael actually did think that because of is failure to find out about Barzini.
ulphil08 it was not his job to find out. the capos like Clemenza and Rocco should have smelled something bad from Tessio.
Whoever the tutticapo was (underboss) they should have figured that out. the consingliere is not the one that does this
Tessio's men were removed only "ten minutes ago" according to the nurse. They didn't have cellphones back then bruh. Then McKlusky comes by and says he locked them all up. So yeah, had nothing to do with Tessio's betrayal. I don't think Tessio would have ever tried to betray Vito.
+samuricexful And if Sal did, Vito would have taken less than a few years to figure it out. This is long after the shooting.
@@samuricexful OK you got it right. There was no betrayal by Tessio at this point.
Sonny was really a bad Don, he was blood thirsty and just unreasonable
This part is too funny they cut a Corleone not a lawyer he practically lives at their mansion.
Even the deleted scenes in the first two Godfather films are terrific.
Vito: Look at me i'm the consigliere now
Vito showing his foresightedness in between in sort of appreciation for Tom “I told you it wont escape his eyes”
Any ill feelings Tom may have had about Michael's curt dismissal of him did not linger as evidenced by their relationship in Godfather II. However, when Tom (Robert Duvall) was asked to reprise his role in Godfather III, he wanted the same amount of money that Michael (Al Pacino) was to get. Coppola refused his offer and reprised Michael's "You're out, Tom" effectively writing him out of the Corleone family. By that time Duvall already had won a best actor Oscar for "Tender Mercies" and could name his price for any film he acted in.
Charles Buxton ouch that sucks. No way could he command Pacino money but it would've added to the final movie had he been around.
alphabetsoup342 on the contrary, he couldn't, that's why he did NOT get picked up for III. And 3 would've never been as good as the otehr 2, with or without him... please
alphabetsoup342 it's his own fault. He never was a top character in the films, 1 was brando Caan, and of course Pacino. Two was Pacino Deniro then maybe Duvall. How could he demand equal money as Pacino? Not saying he isn't a great actor, but he never commanded much in these movies. I'm sure he would've made tons but he wanted to get greedy and got nothing. Sure one could say 3 isn't as great, but Pacino got paid and that's it...
alphabetsoup342 history knows III as a great movie that didn't match up to the first two but it never would have... compared to the first two it fails, but overall its a good movie and people will always know it. What did Duvall do instead? If you manage to look it up quickly maybe I'll believe you already knew it... in other words, nothing memorable.. Pacino on the otehr hand, built a dynasty. And even on his worst movie, is remembered more than Duvall. Not to take away from Duvall, but Pacino commands that much more. Hence why I said Duvall should never have asked for Pacino money... peace
I read an interview with Robert Duvall in which he says that he didn't expect and didn't demand the same amount of money as Pacino, but he felt that offering him 1/10 -- I think that was the ratio he gave -- of the money they were paying Pacino just seemed like an insult.
"you're out tom" 😂 michael really had no warmth for others.. unintentionally condescending almost 😅
I believe part of the reason to remove Tom from the front line of all illegal activities was also the Corleones wanted to move into legal Buissness eg politics and the plan was to have Tom be their main man maybe senator or even the White House
That was the plan although it never happened as they could never leave that side of the Buissness as much as they tried
Agree...This dark underworld stuff Tom could not hear about or be part of as an attorney
"I think you have found your Luca Brasi" underrated line in this scene.
U sure this was cut out cuz I'm pretty sure I saw it in the movie. Not in a director's cut but in the actual movie!
Sonny and Michael complaned he wasn't aggressive enough as sensitive tom was im sure that would of encouraged him to become vicious
I'm 100% sure this scene was actually in the movie (apart from the line about Luca Brasi)
One of the best decisions Michael did... both personally and business-wise.
This isn't cut out in some versions. I recently bought the Boxset and this scene is included in the film.
Leonardo' is correct. This scene is in every version I recollect seeing!!
@@winny1203 Mine too. even as I started this I was like wait I have seen this, was this actually deleted? but I guess in some versions it was.
The scene is still in but some of Tom and Vito’s lines are cut out. There isn’t much difference.
It's much shorter.
Look how Michael looks at Carlo in this scene knowing what he has done lol
the version i watched included this.
absolute classic. about as realistic as 'LORD OF THE RINGS' but still one of the greatest movies ever made. i literally don't even know how many times i've seen it. especially watching it the first time with all the deleted scenes included was incredible not so much because the deleted scenes were necessary or all that great but i'd seen it so many times as it is that getting to see anything "new" in it was awesome part one and two.
Yall all wrong he was trying to protect him
Vito had compassion, Michael was pure ruthless and in the end that ruthlessness ate away at his conscience, especially having Fredo killed
jessesam it was that natural canopy of a nose he had
There was nothing he could do. In was a made guy and Tom was Out.
Whatever happened there?
I wish Michael had been just a bit more upfront, but I guess, by and by, Tom came to understand the value of "plausible deniability"
one of the most painful parts of the movie was hearing Michael say....."You're out Tom"
best thing u sonts kno the family clearly lol
The scene explains itself.. Beautiful!
Michael basically had already killed carlo in this scene. His look when his father pinches Carlo's cheek is devastating. And as we later learn also extremely deadly.
@Joseph mulvihill Could that pinch on Carlo's cheek have been Vito's proverbial (as opposed to literal) kiss of death?
@@thomasshort1784 That is very interesting. Yes I believe that is exactly what the Godfather might have been doing. Nice observation.
@@thomasshort1784 Whole point of deception is one not noticing it
@@josephmulvihill9898 True, indeed. Come to think of it, Vito doing that was VERY subtle!
@@thomasshort1784 Vito was subtle in every aspect. Until the moment he fires a bullet into a person's mouth or guts someone from groin to shoulder.
But even then in that moment of extreme violence he demonstrates an impressive amount of self control.
This is a great scene that ties into GF II and Michael's relationship with his adopted brother. Vito advised Michael as he claims before making sure he explains to Tom that he has as much confidence in Tom as he does in Michael and that he was the one that advised Michael. Vito planned ahead and advised Michael to keep Tom legitimate and on a need-to-know basis until the time came. In GF II when the shit hits the fan or when the time finally comes Michael turns to Tom and tells him "I know I have kept things from you in the past and that has upset you but it was not for lack of trust. You're my brother and right now you are the only one that I can completely trust and so after being kept in the dark for these years it is YOU who are going to the Don while I'm gone, I'm giving you full control over everyone and trusting you with the lives and future of our family"
In the final cut, there is no mention of finding his Luca Bratsi.
I always felt that Michael did not like Tom, Sonny despite his hurtful words towards Tom that time but he loved him