osu!mapping: priorities
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2023
- this was pretty fun! hoping to make more of this type of video in the future, maybe diving into more complex topics. i would like to specifically thank pishifat for pioneering this format and inspiring many aspects of this video, the mapping community would not be the same without him.
if you have any suggestions for future videos, make sure to leave a comment because they are much appreciated!
olc's vid (mentioned in the video): • osu!mapping 01 | mappi...
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CREDITS
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thank you Ralkinson for checking some info (which actually didn't end up making it into the script anyway but appreciate it nonetheless)
also thank you [dragonz] for letting me use your replay lol
songs used (in order):
inabakumori - Lost Umbrella
Antonín Dvořák, Weiner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan - Symphony No. 9 in E Minor, Op. 95, B. 178 "From the New World": IV. Allegro con fuoco
Asuka Ohta - Tilt City (from "Wii Fit Plus")
Lena Raine - Scattered and Lost (from "Celeste")
HO-KAGO TEA TIME - Kira Kira Days (from "K-ON!!")
Serenity - Lionheart
II-L - SPUTNIK-3
Carpool Tunnel - Better Now
OSTER project - piano x forte
map footage used (in order):
osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/145599...
osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/125574...
osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/127638...
osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/444335...
osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/139092...
osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/131207...
osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/105047...
osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/129624... - เกม
![[TH] 2024 PMWC x EWC Main Tournament Day 2 | PUBG MOBILE WORLD CUP x ESPORTS WORLD CUP](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TgEFw285vXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Counter Point: Every Map Should be Made Just for Me
Dang, he beat the video gyze
truly a scoer mindset
That's like, every map ever
A lot of people find uncomfortable maps more fun than comfortable ones.
and a lot of people think the opposite
The “I’m not like the other girls” of osu
There is a really thin line between uncomfortable fun and uncomfortable garbage
Uncomfortable doesent mean unfun. I personally enjoy maps like lost umbrella but that's because it's to my skillset. Fun isn't something people cam measure.
this vid is something a lot of people including non-mappers should hear IMO. really well spoken
Unreal you were able to convey that so effectively in 5 minutes. Pleasee make more of these
make more videos please
getchyo ass outta here
visionary u a fool for this one
Cool to see osu! mapping videos in my feed, pishifat, Mo and Charles haven't been around for a while now so it really is a breath of fresh air to see content like this again even though I don't really map anymore, hope to see more of this :)
Brilliant video, super good production quality and info. Learnt something new!
One of the best videos of mapping, I really like the idea of mappers trying their best to balance their priorities on the mapping fundamentals and the playability/player experience of the map.
such a good video, i love how you were explaining, easy to understand for people that never in a mapping scene!
Incredible video!! You have beautifully depicted the essence of decision-making in mapping, and in a way that is easily understood. I hope to see more?
As someone who knows nothing of mapping, this is really concise and easy to follow. I've never been more interested in the mapping process before.
Great video, hope to see more.
This video just popped in my home page, I hope to see more like this from you
very clean and concise vid! hope to see more in the future
This video was a really good video holy hell. As a player with no mapping experience it helps me understand what is going on through a mappers head as well as how different rhythms can be expressed. Just because the style or pattern of the beatmap is unique or different doesn't necessarily mean it's a worse map than others. It heavily weighted on how you play the game.
Very nice video and I hope to see a second part of it!!!
A fun idea to dig deeper into "piority" is comparing Ryuusei's lost umbrella with ktgster's snow halation. Both use the same extended slider concept but give off completely different feels.
ooh that's interesting thank you
Wonderful video my guy, when I saw that you don't even have 500 subs yet I was surprised the say the least, this quality is incredible.
top tier video bro, we need more of this type of content. liked and subbed
Great video! Would love to see more of this stuff in the future.
On the topic of playability: I think your average player forms their opinion of what is playable based on the maps star rating relative to it's actual difficulty. Since star rating basically only accounts for raw aim and rhythm density, a lot of the more nuanced difficulty elements that can represent a song very well tend to get the short end of the stick and are therefore labeled as less playable.
Basically players get mad at a map that they can't play if the star rating indicates that they should be able to play it, so part of it is just them having to get good at other skillsets than what's necessary for farm maps.
Man this made me miss pishi’s mapping vids. Super awesome video well done
dima
I think pishi's video is intentionally made to be rewatchable (even if those were outdated) but it is an enjoyable content regardless
In 2023 his videos I'd say his vids are still relevant and makes sense for map creations
Banger video 🔥🔥
this is actually a good video nice dude, keep going.
fantastic video!
I love this style of editing
you should really make more videos like this. super cool and interesting
rly good video!! hope to see more
definitely would love to see more mapping videos like this
Great video. I personally really like lost umbrella so this definitely validates my opinion LOL
Great video and great summary!
There is so much room for discussion on osu skill sets (jump aim // flow aim // aim ctrl // etc) and how it factors in to song representation and difficulty expression, especially when IMO there is a larger gap between skillsets which are rewarded and gratified by combo + pp versus other skillsets
Great video! I used to watch you play smo, weird to see you making osu content now
oh hey i recognize you! that's super cool
Very nice, keep up the good work
Dude your video production quality has gone through the roof since I saw your TD video. Nice.
i've evolved into my true form
wait, this absolutely goldmine of a video is from a guy with 500 subs?? this is an S-tier video right here, amazing editing and concepts!
3:20 would be cool to pull 3 maps of different spectrum of the same song
really good idea, will keep this in mind for future vids if a situation like that occurs again
subscribed: thanks for filling the pishifat-shaped hole in my heart
really elegantly explained, awesome stuff
i like this video so much
Beautiful use of New World symph
this was so good, nice job! looking forward to more in the future. ♥
If the point of the ranked section is to have the map count towards the rankings, aka give it to players, I think the frustration ok some when a map has low playability is understandable. Maybe "ranked" should be renamed to something that encompasses more than just the "ranking" aspect. Really good video nonetheless, glad I found this channel !
Ryuusei Aika's Lost Umberela (and Ryuusei's map in general) is a representation of good maps doesn't always mean uniformed like Kujinn's or Log Off Now's
Well there's still a form of uniformity, that doesn't always mean to copy and paste the 90% of the map or tilt them with a certain degrees elevations of vertical nor horizontal lines or even making CURVES in any long sliders
As a mapper i kinda wish i can do that because doing so is tough without getting used to it
I totally agree with this stuff. The friends who got me into osu are EZHD players and much better than me so I learned how to play the game on alt, finger control, and reading maps which most people get upset at. Low AR is so much fun for me that I usually prefer it over farm stuff. Like AR0 is some of my favorite stuff to play.
you making me think of finishing the script of a video i started like half a year ago
you're so underrated dude, subbed
this vid is great, please make more videos
i have literally 0 idea what you are talking about and i have never played osu but i'm somehow intrigued
i really love and kinda miss this style of mapping videos that pishi also released. this video is so well executed that it might even be as good as his videos. gl and i hope you make more of these videos bc you are amazing :))
amazing video
banger video
fire video ❤
You know, as cool as that section is, I feel like the design of sliders lends to how "bad" it is during gameplay. I wish sliders had more clear cutoffs to when its a SB or a miss and stuff.
Lost Umbrella is such a good map
amazing vid
quality content
banger map
its always funny when people say a map is trash because its not in their skillset
I like your title card :)
Nice video!
amazing video i love it!
tbh, i disagree with the idea that "song representation" and "playability" are things that balance each other on a scale. maybe it was just a convenient visual to use, but i think it is a reductive and misleading idea that people seem to spread now. theres not too much logic in the idea that a more playable map is less representative of a song, or vice versa. in many cases a pattern CAN achieve both, with little to no sacrifice on either side. of course, there are cases where they might conflict, but its definitely far from a give and take relationship
for the most part, maps arent unplayable because they "prioritize song representation" -- thats a weak excuse. its just because they *disregard playability*, which might be okay in its own way, but i think thats an important distinction people forget. most people agree that ryuusei maps are on the "less playable" side, which im sure is the mapper's intention! that said, i would disagree if someone said that ryuusei maps were vastly more expressive and representative than other great mappers.
i look forward to your next videos, this is great work!
thank you! yeah i don't think the scale visual was the most accurate way to represent that idea - judging from your feedback and other people's, it seems like i couldn't simplify the concept as much as i wanted to without obscuring the fact that it's only a tradeoff _sometimes_
pishifat is alive and well
We have been starved for mapping content for many years
cyndi killed this one
Underrated af
mapping for playability? get a load of this guy
YT needs more osu mapper content
Being an ex-fan charter for another game, I can't agree with and appreciate this video more.
ryuusei aika is so creative
Tbh the map is really fun to play. I don't understand the hate. Excellent video, well explained.
babe wake up new osu youtuber just dropped
what a very cool video although i wonder who will fight against this ideology
goat
kira kira days is a "comfortable" jump map
Pishifat brother??????!!!!???😮😮😮😮❤❤
Good video👍
pop off man
more asmr osu mapping videos please
3:13 the astute dragonz fans will know that this is my score
cool, now do the same exact video but with shiten instead hehehe
I thought this was by pishifat for a sec
Oh hey, its the guy
seethe
W video
womp womp
If all maps were """playable""" by most people this game would be so bland and boring. Your explanations in this video were pretty good, however i also think this concept of playability somewhat continues into differentiating between skillsets and the fact the star rating system is nowhere near perfect. I understand your point though, that more people will be able to play kira kira days and less will be able to play sputnik, but some people will find other skillsets easier, and yet they wont be out there complaining about more mainstream "normal" maps getting ranked. I think the issue with the response to lost umbrella is that some people think maps should all be the same, and some people are very vocal about that. That should change
also 3:52 hi thats me
sotarks 😭
exactly, what makes mapping cool and interesting is how different can it be 👍
Will you be covering more mapping drama in the future?
LOL idk that might be something I touch on but I would have to approach it really carefully. my goal is to unite mappers, not to divide them even further
Nice thumbnail
I speak no hyperbole when I say that this video convinced me you're worthy of carrying pishi's mantle. Using clear terms, concise, gets the point across well, great examples, and entertaining to boot. Can't wait to see more. c:
Lost Umbrella aint the problem here, the real question is how is top diff of the chainsawman slider map ranked xd
that's another map i'd like to maybe talk about at some point but there's a lot to unpack there LOL lost umbrella is at least pretty simple to pick apart
@@kataryn I mean yeah, I get the idea of song rappresentation, but that doesnt mean all maps can be shit mapped and get ranked
Oomggg hi cyndificusics
hi kpmy!!
All my homies hate playability 😂
Unfortunately if mapping trends continue this way, it isn't going to be healthy for the game in the long-term, especially for 3-4* diffs. Compared to maps even just back in 2018, these diffs are too difficult for new players. I don't know any 200k+ six digit that can FC these new 3-4* maps, so who is the target audience? Some 4* diffs from the last two years still have nomod FCs or A ranks in the lb, people who would be the "target audience" for a 4* diff can't play it. I think if I joined this year and tried some of these newer maps, I'd just want to quit the game. That is honestly my main concern, with 5* and up a little weirdness makes more sense.
there's a difference between a 3-4* map and a hard/insane... just because a map is low star rating doesn't mean it's necessarily easy. it's very much an "all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares" type of thing. maps that _are_ necessarily easy are maps that specifically say "hard" or "insane", which there are still plenty of because they're required for ranked mapsets of songs under 4 or 5 minutes in length.
@@kataryn I think if a mapper sees that osu says their map is 3* but it's too difficult, they should adjust accordingly so that it's appropriate. New players use SR to figure out what they can expect to be able to play, they don't have a lot of experience in the game. I don't see how difficulty inflation in lower SR could be anything but a bad thing.
Also, as a completionist, I really don't see these "plenty of regular/easy/etc maps" that are supposedly always being ranked. I play 2023 mapsets regularly and the contrast between 2014-2018 maps and newer ones is very apparent, even in lower diffs and even when comparing older non-generic maps to the newer ones.
whats the font used in the thumbnail
torus pro
did you mess up rendering or smth why do the images look like that
yeah something is clearly wrong with my premiere export settings, this has been annoying me for months and idk what's wrong :/ i'll keep looking into it though
@@kataryn also good video
please make more videos like this (we need a new pishifat)
bro think he pishifat, but actually pretty good at it
she
@@dragonz4477 i mean cyndi not aika
@@dadan_oji yeah that's what he meant lol
hey i follow you in twitch!!!
HI RIZEI
@@katarynhi!!!!!!!
Wasnt ryuusei map is always like that
Yeah, all their maps are questionable, and I'd even say poorly mapped, with lack of consistency and continuity
@@makotheowl they are not "questionable" they are just not made for you lmao
@@user-zx9yj2ek4d i guess? Even tho i try to play every kind of map, and even when I can't play a map i know when it's questionable or not
@@makotheowl I feel like what people tend to say to be "questionable" are just maps that requires uncommon skill set combination in order to be played right and to be enjoyed. just some thoughts
@@user-zx9yj2ek4d bro, i literally map tech stuff that doesn't follow a rule or is conventional, i say Ryuusei Aika maps are questionable bc they looks like the stuff is just randomly placed on the playfield (i map for fun, I don't all of upload them bc they're still not good enough)
after thinking about it for a bit i really don't like how you use your definition of "playability" and fun interchangeably
on a really basic level, people like niche skillsets because they test the player in unusual ways and it's fun to have a unique challenge. sentences like "it's not possible to make a map as expressive as possible and as fun as possible at the same time" i really really don't like because not only are there easy counterarguments (beloved maps like oboete ii yo and triplaneta that don't use unconventional gameplay), it feels like you saw comments from players who stumble on unusual maps by accident and interpreted those as valid concerns. by stating that accessibility = fun, the conclusion basically reads as "mappers have chosen to not make fun maps on purpose so they can flex in the editor". this is already a misconception a lot of people have so hearing someone with a good voice and good editing say it seems… bad
i think if you just subbed out the word "fun" with "comfortable" or even "straightforward" in this video and clarified that some people like weird maps, it would be a lot better
tysm for the feedback! i really wanted it to come across that you only _sometimes_ have to sacrifice song representation for playability or vice versa, but it seems like that hasn't come through on multiple accounts, so that indicates to me that i could have been clearer about it
also yeah i think i may have oversimplified a bit with the multiple ways i used the word "playability" throughout the video... will definitely consider how to better talk about that going forward
@@kataryn ye np, i believe in this channel so gl
i don't think your definition of "playability" was oversimplified, you defined it to mean accessibility. my problem was just that the video makes the point that more people being able to play a map = more playable = more fun. personally, every time i hear the word "playability" i think of really bad osu site comments from people who suck at the game and i know it's not just me, but you define it in the video so it's not that bad
i think the best comparison is music. the osu community is like if every album got released on one music label (the ranked section) and everyone heard a ton of different albums. but the people who only like pop music start calling all the weird music "unlistenable". so if someone started trying to talk about "listenability" in discussions or said that grunge or metal sounds bad on purpose to convey emotion, that would be a pretty uninformed take because tons of people love listening to those genres. saying this invites people to say that pop music can be angry and intense too, so why don't they just make that instead! in reality people make those genres because it's the way they want to express those emotions, which is why art should be judged on execution. that's why you were onto something when you talked about using a movement concept to emphasize the music, because it's a simple explanation of why the pattern is good based on the map's execution
i like that you explained how playability and difficulty aren't the same thing. i've seen a lot of people ignore that.
but at 2:29 you made me pause the video to check if i had celeste open so i have to dislike this video Sorry