The (almost) Perfect Sequel - Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door Retrospective
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- In the follow-up to my first Paper Mario Retrospective video, I take a deep dive into the most beloved entry in the series: Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. Along the way, I make a few new discoveries, as the quest for the Paper Hearts becomes more dangerous.
Previous Chapter: • What Makes Paper Mario...
Next Chapter: • The End of an Era - A ...
Playlist: • Paper Mario Series Ret...
Thank you so much for watching! These videos take a lot of time and work for my to produce, so any support is appreciated. It would mean a lot if you consider donating to my Patreon so I can pay some bills.
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VIDEOS USED
Game Grumps:
• The magic happens in M...
IGN:
• Paper Mario: The Thous...
Mario's Castle:
• Ombretta, la compagna ...
Mayo:
• Mario and Luigi have a...
Censored Gaming:
• 10 Ways Paper Mario TT...
Luigi Fan Project:
• Prototype Showcase! - ...
MasterKillua Mod:
• Paper Mario 64K | How ...
TTYD Texture Pack video:
• Paper Mario: The Thous...
SONGS
We Are! (16 bit remix):
• One piece OP 1 - We Ar...
Mother Sea (8 bit cover):
• Mother Sea [8 Bit Cove...
SiIvagunner Battle Theme Rip:
• Battle Theme - Paper M...
#gamereview #papermario #ttyd
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00:00 - Intro
00:33 - Real Intro
02:41 - Mysterious Rumbles
03:16 - The Retrospective Begins
07:33 - Battle System Overview
17:25 - Overworld Exploration
21:54 - Chapter Overviews
28:55 - Trans Rights
33:35 - The Discussion continues
39:09 - Graphics and Sound
43:22 - Vibing to some jams
46:10 - Critiques
57:56 - Miscellaneous other points
1:02:17 - Bittersweet Farewell
1:05:06 - Please give me money on Patreon - เกม
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You should make a video ranking all these games, but like, a long and in-depth analysis like this. That would be the best video ever, my man, just discovered you today and I'm about to binge watch all your videos!
@@rpgranked I'm planning on making a mega-compilation of all 6 Paper Mario videos once they're completed.
@@ZillennialRosa awesome!!!
If he hated the backtracking in this game, he’s going to rage in Sticker Star
How about the amount of time wasted trying to figure out that you need a vacuum sticker for that one desert level? Truly awful game design.
How often I have to go rewatch the remake trailer while watching these types of retrospectives to make sure the remake is actually real blows my mind lol
I posted a reaction video for the trailer and I STILL don't believe it's real.
I'm still doing it. I think I've watched every single ttyd video ever made. Shout out to fatguy and his crew
Vivian was already the best partner imo and now learning about her original depiction gives her even more depth.
Eggcelent analysis.
Thank you kindly!
Ah i see an egg pun i love egg puns (r/egg_IRL hehehehehe)
ruined party member
@@VoltShroomsno one cares
based@@VoltShrooms
I didn't mind the Chapter 7 backtracking all that much because it gave me a chance to wrap up some Trouble Center tasks without going out of my way for extra trips.
That's a fair point. The backtracking annoyed me more because this was my first playthrough, but if I know how to optimize my runs in the future, I'm sure it wouldn't be as bad.
Everyone always talks about how much they hate the general white backtracking part, but honestly over the years I’ve grown to like the fact that it’s there. It’s part of the game, and especially when you have to jump on him 100 times, it’s kind of like Nintendo was trolling us and I love it haha
One very big thing in TTYD that 64 did not have was Partners have dialog. How many times does your partner talk in 64, not counting when they join VS how many times do they talk in TTYD.
True. I think that's part of why TTYD's partners are more fondly remembered
They talk during encounters with Jr. Troopa and Duplighosts and that's about it.
If 64 got remade, I'm almost positive they'd expand on them.
FINALLY someone talks about the lack of cohesion in TTYD's world, compared the Toad Town connecting to 6/7 worlds sans warp pipe. imo, using warp pipes was meant to be a clever reward to fast travel, after you earned your way by paving the road to get somewhere. PM64 remains more of a darling cult classic in my mind because I was the age to grow up with that one, but they are both 10/10 games to me. Awesome video, Z.
Thank you kindly. What's funny is that this game has both the shortcut warp pipes as well as the default warp pipes to get you to those chapters. PM64 had the best balance in that regard.
I have to disagree with this idea. To me, it only proves that the world in Ttyd is that much bigger than the Mushroom Kingdom. It forces Mario to exclusively use alternative means of travel rather than walking. It takes 3 days to get to Poshley Heights. It's always nighttime in Twilight Town. The air is that much cleaner in Petalburg than in Rogueport. These locations are not next to each other and are some long distance away.
@@jordanps1218 yeah, imo, this is a feature, not a bug. The N64 game always felt a little small and bland to me compared to how vast and varied TTYD's world feels to me. As a sequel, I think it adds to a feeling of escalation super well from the first game.
You honest in your opening "i never played and i dont think ill enjoy it with adult eyes."
- ttyd fandom shotguns loading sounds are heard.
I didn't quite say that I didn't think I would enjoy it, just that I had always meant to get around to it and I sort of felt like a fake Paper Mario fan. Yeah, it's still weird to think about.
@@ZillennialRosa Oh no your fine it was the opening that made me state the fandom is a bit "toxic" on its "golden child" or in this case "golden game" of the series.
@@DemonicGoddess Oh yeah definitely. Especially when talking about the newer games in the series, TTYD fans always bring up TTYD and talk about the good ole days.
They're "Cross-naughts" not "X-naughts." It Japan, "X" is "cross." That's why the X-naught's computer is TEC-XX as in "TEC Double-Cross"...because he double-crosses the X-naughts.
That's a very good point you bring up. I'm a silly (Mexican) American, so it never crossed my mind that I was saying the wrong X
@@ZillennialRosa Its easy mistake to make, and I dont think the game ever mentions which pronunciation it is until Chapter 7, and even there its in a tattle for a rare enemy. If I remember right Goombella even plays it off as a joke going something like "what, you've been calling them Ex-nauts this whole time?" so perhaps even the translation team didn't realise until late into the translation process
Congrats on acquiring the orange paper heart!!
Enjoy your rest & take your time!
But you can bet every coin in your pocket I’ll be SUPER happy when the next Paper Mario retrospective drops! 😁
I'm happy to hear that! It's taken me a lot longer because it is the single biggest chapter of the bunch. The runtime seems to be close to 2 hours, and some interesting things will occur. Thank you so much for patiently waiting. Hopefully it won't have to be much longer.
I'd suggest some additional consideration on who the chapter overviews are for. As someone who has 100%'d the game three times, they're naturally going to be redundant to me. But at the same time, they gloss over so much detail that I wouldn't want them to be my first exposure to the story either. When something is brought up like Cortez's boss fight or TEC's death without any elaboration on why or how these events happen, they would only be new information to new players. But without the surrounding context, what is gained from learning them in this video as opposed to discovering them through the game?
I think the overview of chapter 4 is your best attempt at bridging the gap between explaining the plot while focusing on what you personally find relevant. It touches on the main story beats of the chapter (Villagers turning into pigs, finding Doopliss as the culprit, getting your body snatched, getting help from Vivian, breaking the curse, and defeating Doopliss for real), but then it skips over some of the finer details that might deprive non-players of the needed context. Why do we need to find Doopliss's name? Why do we need the letter 'P'? You could have mentioned that any attempts to fight Doopliss before getting his name result in a stalemate battle you have to flee from, or that the curse requires the perpetrator's real name to break, Rumpelstiltskin-style. You could even mention that by going back to the Twilight Town mayor's house you can find Doopliss taking credit for saving the town and your partners commenting on how unusual Mario is acting. If you're looking to have the whole video appeal to both sides of the audience, a good balance of "here's what happened" and "here's what I found interesting" would probably help most with engagement.
The way I see it, if it's worth explaining the story to the viewers, it's probably worth making sure they get the full picture, at least to the point where everything makes sense. Otherwise, it'd probably be better to skip the summaries and focus more on what you got out of each chapter. Considering it's a retrospective, I'm sure you could get away with just having a "story" section of your critique and touching only on what you find relevant.
That's a fair criticism to make. Thank you for pointing it out. I think my main struggle here was trying to keep the video runtime at a reasonable length. I'm still trying to determine what is important to acknowledge and comment on, and what I can gloss over. I mostly highlighted the story aspects that stood out to me, but it's fair to point out that it feels like I'm reading off a checklist, because that's sort of how I treated this chapter. Fortunately, the next video on Super Paper Mario will go a lot more in depth with the break down of the story, as I dedicate a lot more time to it and try to make it appealing to newcomers while also sharing my thoughts. (Its around 2 hours long according to my script, which is why it has been taking me so long to make). The following games aren't generally as story driven, so the videos on them will focus a lot more on gameplay.
@@ZillennialRosa Thanks for taking the time to read my feedback. There's definitely something to be said about the balance between focusing on what you find relevant and what the intended audience does. Your video style looks to inject a lot of your personality into the script, so you'd probably benefit leaning a little more on the former. If your chapter summaries were read more through the filter of your own experience and less like scattered Wikipedia notes, I think they would flow a little more coherently.
For instance, "The first chapter struck me as pretty generic. It reminded me a lot of chapter 1 from the first Paper Mario, primarily taking place in a grassy area that leads to a big castle. The boss turned out to be just as silly as the Koopa Bros. despite a dramatically different appearance. This boss is so big it doesn't even fully fit on-screen, requiring you to fight its head and foot. The story behind Koops and his dad really caught me off guard with how dark it was, but then it was revealed his dad was alive at the end, and I remembered this game is rated E."
That example could probably use some cleanup, but I think it gets the point across. Highlighting the points you found noteworthy provides new information to people who have already played the game, while including details on the who/what/when/where/why keeps the uninformed in the loop. Maybe you'd want to explain what the story of Koops and his dad is, or maybe you'd assume the viewer already knows. I think that's more a question of who you're tailoring the video towards.
@@MagerBlutooth Thank you for taking the time to provide feedback with examples. I will definitely keep stuff like this in mind going forward as I work on future videos and figure out my audience.
Now that we getting a remake a thousand year door sequel may be possible
It feels like anything is possible now
34:59 had me dying 💀 you’ve earned a sub my friend!
Fun fact, I spent an hour on this one gag that lasts a few seconds. Thank you for appreciating it.
I played TTYD in Japanese and my interpretation of Vivian is basically the same as yours. It's really so simple and yet people get caught up on the game calling her a "boy" and ignore everything else. =w= Umm anyway I'm glad you've come to appreciate TTYD after having a rough start with it! I think the game has its flaws but I simply can't care about them because I love it so much. Backtracking is a problem? Well, I love the game's battle system and enjoy perfecting my action commands, as well as taking in the gorgeous setpieces, so it breezes by. Too many fights in the Glitzpit? I enjoyed the immersion of the grind. I understand how people don't like them but I just really can't hate the game, I just love playing it... no thoughts only TTYD.
I definitely loved my time with the game overall. I recently posted my reaction to the TTYD reveal for Switch, and I lost my mind. It has some of the best moments and probably the best combat in the series. Theres so much to love, and while I have some issues, I still see how amazing the game truly is. Hopefully the Switch remake tweaks some of the issues I had with the game.
Genuine applause for the Italian localization team. Fucking awesome to see!
Definitely! Especially for the time.
Feeling so lucky to be Italian, I got to experience this wonderful translation as a kid!
26:54 I've replayed this game so many times, and had no idea that the yoshis color depended on how long it took to hatch. I just thought it was random selection. I think i had a black yoshi once, and maybe red...but every other time I played the game he was always green. I thought it was just random
Yeah, I had no idea either until I watched other people's videos and was doing research after playing the game. It's a fun little detail.
I got my hands on a copy a few years back when I was in middle school and bad at rpgs lol. I never actually managed to beat the shadow queen and just sort of gave up. I put all my level ups into health which it turns out wasn't great. I recently tried to replay it and had a lot of fun with my new knowledge but didn't get too far because I got pulled away from it. I did recently play through 64 prior to that replay attempt on the switch online service and had a ton of fun with it, and it sort of showed me what I was missing out on with my bad strategy. I really do hope to get back to it at some point, but my jrpg backlog is eating me alive :P
Yeah, a good balanced distribution of the main 3 branches does make a difference. Though to be fair, that boss is hard even with well optimized leveling. I'm glad you went back and played PM64. It's such a great game.
Also, I think there's no real fault to anyone regarding/interpreting Vivianne as either a trans-girl or a cis-girl.
For people who were aware of the Japanese (or other) translation at the time of playing the game, I think it makes sense to see the "transness" of her arc.
But, as you pointed out, for most people who played the game back in 2004, the concept barely existed in public conscience plus that it was practically wiped from the English versions; so the take-away that Vivianne is "just a girl" makes perfect sense too.
I definitely don't blame people for not knowing about Vivian's origins in the various translations and versions. That aspect of her story is particularly important to me, so I definitely wanted to use my video as a chance to talk about it. Representation even today is so limited, that characters like Vivian have become especially important and meaningful for trans people who play the games. I appreciate seeing how generally accepting and kind the Paper Mario fandom is with this aspect of discussion (though arguments definitely still do happen).
@@ZillennialRosa Thousand-Year Door is back!!!!!!
Love the video! Referencing to Vivivan being trans, in the Spanish version is pretty similar to the Italian translation! At the first Vivian's apparences everyone refers to her as "him", but more later in chapter 4 everyone treats her as HER, except for her sisters. Is really cool, I played this game as a teenager and I was really surprised about Vivivan's character. Also my favorite one!
Yeah, Vivian has such an interesting history! (She's also a favorite for me)
So, as a fan of this game, here’s why MOST of the backtracking didn’t bug me that much: This is a game that encourages you to interact with as much stuff as possible. Be they NPC’s, enemies, oddities that you can later access with new abilities… there is a lot of lore & additional story in the creative world the devs gave this game. And while it can get tedious, the fact you’re always moving the story forward or finding new things if you go out if your way to get them makes it worth it 8/10 times. I end up getting lost into the world and personally want to keep the narrative moving at a fair pace, so if something does start to annoy me, I’m usually rewarded with a decent enough payoff because of the games charm.
The one thing I wish for with the remake looming is better placements for the quick warp pipes in regards to where they were placed on the map (Keelhaul Key especially) & hopefully a slightly faster walk & Yoshi speed. This would cut down on the tediousness quite easily, as well as things like faster load times in between segments of the area you’re in.
I definitely think that a hotkey to mount Yoshi kid would speed things up dramatically, a lot like making the iron boots in Ocarina of Time 3D an equippable item.
Been getting into retrospectives, and I’m really excited to see the next parts of this series! I’m really happy that I still get to experience theee games through longplays which has really helped me see how much better these games are!
Thank you. Chapter 3 will be on a whole other level compared to the first two in this retrospective. I can't wait to share it. These games are so much fun to talk about.
As a seasoned veteran of the retrospectives, I gotta say this one is of pretty high quality
Thousand Year Door is my favorite of the series, and it isn't even close for me. A lot of people rag on the backtracking, but I honestly don't think it's that bad. TTYD is pretty good about recontextualizing the return trip for most backtracking. Like in Chapter 4, where the return from the steeple leaves you without partners, then the trip back is with Vivian. Chapter 7 is probably the most egregious, but it's played for laughs, and you can fast travel through the whole sequence anyway, so I never minded.
TTYD also has my favorite set of party members in any Mario RPG, bar none. Vivian is my all-time fav for sure. The way she overcomes the abuse from her sisters is still one of the most satisfying arcs in the series IMO. I think it's a shame they chose to hide her trans identity in the US release. I had to learn about it on the gamefaqs forums back in the day lol. But, given the political climate even today, I can understand why the localization team felt it best.
Either way, this is where the series peaked for me. While Super Paper Mario is still good, and even the modern games have some charms, TTYD still sets the bar that every other Paper Mario game is measured against for me.
I think when it comes to backtracking, there's a lot of YMMV with it. It didn't bother me in some chapters as much as others, but I think I had a bigger problem with it because it was so common throughout the entirety of the game. I appreciate when it's properly recontextualized, and for annoying as I found the trek through the forest in ch4 without most of my party members, at least they did change things up there.
Yeah, in an ideal world Vivian's story would have been there in all versions and been respectful towards her, but it hasn't stopped her from becoming a trans icon and resonating with the community. If the game is ever remade, I hope they take cues from the Italian version specifically.
I basically can't disagree that TTYD puts forth the best that the series has to offer, though I do have some opinions on PMOK that might surprise some people, but it doesn't change where things rank for me really.
You forgot to mention something in Vivians part at the end where she goes back to her sisters which Imo I didn't like
She should have left them tbh
Aleast Beldam
That's fair. I agree that her ending could have been better, as it would have been nice for her to leave her sisters behind. That part did feel a bit rushed. In future chapters of this retrospective, I do plan on revisiting her story and addressing what I missed. Her impact on this retrospective series doesn't stop here.
@@ZillennialRosa True
She does get a reference in Super
Can't wait for that video
Ngl the end made it seem you have negative thoughts on the game as for me who's a big fan of the game
@@multifandomfangirl9664 I definitely loved the game. I had issues with the backtracking, but I still really enjoyed the experience overall. I enjoyed it about as much as the first game, and I love the first game a lot.
@@ZillennialRosa Same here but my favorite is Super still
@@multifandomfangirl9664 Super is up there for me. It was the first Paper Mario I ever played, so it holds a special place in my heart. I'm planning something big for when I talk about it.
Bro what a well made video, great job!
Ooh nice! This will be fun to watch
Thank you! I hope you enjoy it.
started watching this yesterday and had to finish when the remake was announced this morning! (you called it) great work and super excited to get this game on modern consoles!!!
Thanks for coming back to support this video! It's an exciting time to be a Paper Mario fan!
I've been watching a lot of retrospective videos recently, especially about the paper mario series, and I have to say, yours is really turning out to be one of the best, and my personal favorite. You're doing an amazing job of really diving into the history, culture, and gameplay of it all in a serious, yet lighthearted way that really resonates with me!
I really feel you in regards to not playing the Paper Mario series in "order" per se, or in time with everyone else. I personally didn't even like the RPG mechanics (especially in the first one) when I was younger, but LOVED the aesthetic, and ended up beating Super Paper Mario first before any of the other games. Then I went backwards and did TTYD, and THEN finally PM64. It's wild how we all experience this series, yet still love it, faults and all
Thank you so much! I'm happy to hear that my video style has resonated with you. Comments like this make me feel like the many hours I put into the video were all worth it.
The order I played the games in was SPM>PM64>PMSS>PMOK>TTYD>PMCS. My relationship with SPM is interesting because it was not only the first Paper Mario game I ever played, but the first Mario game at all.
I'm relieved at the positive reception I'm seeing with my discussion of Vivian. I was worried I might get some backlash for being trans supportive. Vivian's story is really important to me, and she will continue to be important in future videos. Let's just say, there might be some correlation between her, the egg, and myself.
Thank you for the kind comment! I can't wait to show what cool things I have planned for chapter 3 (The SPM video).
We finally have a way to play it on the switch!!! Yahoo!!!!!
The wait will be painful, but worth it!
Ms. Mowz is a very fun partner because she can steal items...
I strongly recommend watching some Challenge Runs and 100% speedruns of this game.
When the remake comes out I'll be sure to prioritize getting Ms. Mowz early
"Nintendo needs to rerelease this game!"
Yeah about that
And they took that personally
5:07
Literally me when I see Sticker Star
A good majority of the Paper Mario fandom honestly
I honestly think the TTYD HD Texture Pack (that is faithful to the vanilla style) is a better option than the one that makes the sprites look like CS and TOK. Those games I guess work for what they were going for, but I think TTYD's art style is perfect as is, and only needs to be faithfully adapted in HD, gradients, vibrant colors, colored outlines and all. I also wish a texture pack for PM64 that aims for a TTYD-like look would take off the way the one that aims for a modern PM look did. Modern PM relies on the advanced lighting engine that the older games don't have (and also most enemy redesigns are just straight downgrades from their TTYD iterations imo). I strongly dislike flat, duller colors especially when it's not even compensating for a more advanced lighting engine like it is in CS and TOK.
Agreed. I do enjoy both styles, but I will admit that texture packs which try to make TTYD look more like the modern games don't work quite as well to me. Simply upresing the textures is all it needs.
16 mins in, and youre talking about the Goomba partners.
One way i started playing years ago that i stumbled on by accident and now its hard to use any other partner, is the ol' Charge and Multibonk combo. Charge up for 3 to 5 turns, then razzle dazzle the shit out of any enemy repeatedly!
If you haven't tried it out yet, i implore you to do so
Yeah, I've been told by a few friends that the Goomba partners are a lot more powerful than I initially realized.
Second? Idk found you thru some fucky wucky search gone wrong. Won't watch the vid now but I'll be sure to do so when I have time!
Thanks, I appreciate that. Good to know that the algorithm is doing stuff.
Y'know, all the issues with backtracking and having to go through the sewers so much could be fixed with a simple fast travel option; something that could be in a remake.
Just gonna leave that idea out there for you; Nintendo. . . please do it.
I could definitely see that. I feel like the game would also need to be slightly rebalanced to accommodate that.
@@ZillennialRosa yeah, considering they took people's complaints about Wind Waker's fetch quest to heart, I could see it lol
I never was that much into TTYD. I still to this day prefer Paper Mario and Super Paper Mario.
I like each one for different reasons. TTYD has some nice QOL features I really enjoy, but the original is consistently enjoyable.
great videos, subscribed frfr
Thank you! Your subscription is greatly appreciated!
First! Probably one of the best retrospectives I ever seen in awhile.
Thank you so much!
@@ZillennialRosa Definitely the best TTYD review I seen imo
1:01:33 That aged better than expected.
I'm just glad the announcement came before I could finish this series of videos
Also, only a couple months after this video, Nintendo announced a TTYD remake.
Wonderful video about a great game, though seeing this right after I've started regularly listening to the entire playlist of SiIvagunner rips means I'm way too distracted during the battle mechanics section because I'm listening for the lyrics to Black Betty and the Cha Cha Slide
Not a complaint, it genuinely improves the experience and I love hearing SiIvagunner rips used as unironic background music
Thank you for noticing the SiIvagunner rips. I'm also surprised there aren't nore creators out there using them in their videos.
I’ve never understood the complaints of backtracking in video games. It makes a world feel more lived in, and more open. Having no backtracking is having linearity masking as open gameplay…and yet people love to rip into outwardly linear games like FFXIII. Seems to me people want linearity without realizing its linearity. For my tastes, I say “bring on the backtracking”. Make me feel like a world is real and lived in. Make me feel the differences of an environment with changes to plot or character growth, or even just familiarity of pathways. To each their own, but I love backtracking in RPG’s and I love it in this game.
In a sort of roundabout way, backtracking makes a game's world feel smaller to me. I don't take issue with re-treading familiar areas, but in this case it bothered me because of the repetitiveness of the actions in the game. Unlike a standard Mario game, the RPGs have more limited movement. Something like the spindash from the N64 game would have made this much nicer in my opinion. I also understand that RPGs will inherintly have dozens of identical turn-based battles, but my tolerance isn't as high with this game I suppose, as the same encounters started to wear on me.
I have to stress again that these criticisms are minor in the grand scheme of things, and I still absolutely adore the game. That aspect is just one part of the experience that didn't appeal to me.
I agree with the back tracking statement. And I hope that gets fixed or mitigated in the remake. Which it is hilarious I just found this video after said remake was announced.😂 (Also PS: I like get Ms. Mowz after chapter 4 just to make the party feel complete and I also make to get every shinesprite to make them fully powered.)
The algorithm started really pushing my videos after TTYD was announced, so I'm glad it's still doing that lol. I wish I had found Ms. Mowz sooner in my playthrough.
Commenting for the algorithm since content about this game is probably going to get some more attention for a while :)
What a time to be a Paper Mario fan :)
Thank you! I did see this video get a small spike in views, so that makes me happy as someone who has been making several videos about the series.
In defense of backtracking: The one and only alternative is what people criticize as "hallway simulator" games, and rightly so. Only platformers can get away with such an extreme lack of content and meaningful gameplay beyond moving in the only direction you're allowed to go. Reasonably, when people complain about backtracking, they aren't actually complaining about backtracking, they're complaining about the lack of any meaningful gameplay occurring along the way. The problem is not that you're going places you've already been, it's that you don't do anything, either on the way or once you get there.
It's the lack of meaningful gameplay, which is then further exacerbated in turn-based RPGs with the risk of finding yourself in a battle that could have been avoided.
Such a great game , I was consistently cracking up with laughter at the dialogue. I never did finish it though I guess I should dust off the ol' GameCube.
Every day is a great day to dust off the cube
Man, your videos are great, i'm surprised by how many subs and views you have, you truly deserve a lot more
Me acabo de dar cuenta que eres de México, ahora me siento muy tonto por hablarte en inglés xd
Ojalá tu canal crezca mucho, estaré atento a tus próximos videos!
Jaja, muchas gracias
I finally got to play this thanks to the Switch remake. I definitely think it's better than the first one, overall, but the first game absolutely has strengths that this one doesn't.
The remake also solves (or very nearly solves) the chapter 7 backtracking issue. Still a little top much backtracking in a lot of other chapters, but it's not a deal breaker.
The backtracking was madness
What's funny is that I just responded to a comment about how frustrated the commenter was about how much other people complain about the backtracking.
Eh, it's still a perfect sequel to me!
That's good. Honestly, the parentheses are totally optional. It's really good, I'm happy to have played it, I'm happy everyone else enjoys it, and that's all that matters. We try to end on a positive note around these parts.
I'm glad the Vivian stuff was lost in translation, personally.
Why is that?
I really like these videos, and I think they deserve way more views than they currently have!!
Great work, really!
If I can make one suggestion though, although it might just be a "me-thing"; don't use songs with lyrics in them, as background music, because it muddles what you're saying a bit or just makes it a bit harder to listen to.
That's totally fair. I'll be sure to be more conscious of that going forward. Thank you for providing that feedback!
29:18 Whats the name of that song?
The Town Inside Me from Guilty Gear Strive
@@ZillennialRosa Ah, yes! Thank you!
First, Thank You Nintendo for doing a remake of this game. Second, one thing that stood out to me about this game is how a lot of the partners feel the same in this one. Would have loved some new ones like a Spikey or a Shy Guy. Instead, we get another Goomba that gives us information or a Bombob that explodes and so on.
So, coming back to the 1:01:00 ish are how are we feeling about this now?
Very good. I've still got 2 more games to cover, and I will absolutely be talking about the new announcement at the end of my Origami King video
This video captured all of my feelings towards PPTTYD. I love the game, and I want to replay it some time, but it’s think the backtracking kills replay value, I don’t like the random fog in battles that makes attacks hitting random, I don’t like the side quests, the movements completely butchered, the worlds are way to linear and hallway like, I don’t like how the cliffs and ground surrounding the world kind of just drop off into a void, everything feels unconnected, the side content is literally horrible… yet the main combat, story, writing, characters, interesting worlds (that despite being hallway like are very fun to go through the first time), and charm carry it to be one of my favorite GameCube games, and one that I’m hoping I love even more when I replay it.
Thank you! I'm happy this video was reflective of your experience with TTYD. Definitely an incredible game with a lot of blemishes that make wanting to go back harder.
@@ZillennialRosa yeah, I want to replay it when I get a new GameCube controller. I haven’t really been able to play a ton of the first paper Mario (my copy broke) but it looks like it solves a lot of the problems I have with TYD. If your a high enough level, spinning into enemies seems to kill them instead of going to battle, which was another problem I had with the backtracking. It also seems that games levels are a lot more explorative, which I’m excited for. You don’t really explore TTYDs levels, they’re more linear, which is fine, but I’m excited to see a slightly more open take. I think in a perfect world the next pm game would have the combat system of ttyd, but with maybe more exploring and platforming in the main world. I was a little shocked that ttyd didn’t have more platforming honestly
@@skullkid-kazooie8277 I know PMOK is more controversial, and I'll cover it eventually, but that game experiments with the idea of open and explorable environments.
@@ZillennialRosa ok thanks ^^ the worlds in that game do look fun to explore, but the lack of a spin concerns me a little
@@skullkid-kazooie8277 That's fair. An option for faster movement would be appreciated, but luckily there isn't as much backtracking, and certain larger areas provide vehicles to move around, which definitely helps.
Great video, man Paper Mario TTYD will always be one of my favorites. Vivian is one of my fav partners, but I also saw her as a cisgender chick, so that’s what I’m sticking with. Partners like Ms. Mowz or even your little Borkus kinda disappointed me, they feel too weak, not only that, as a disabled guy, making me have to mash the buttons to use certain attacks is not cool. I do really want a game about Luigi’s journey in the Waffle Kingdom. There’s so much to say about this game, it’s insane, great video (again)!
That is an interesting point to consider. Accessibility in games is really important, and Nintendo is kind of behind when it comes to adding those features to their games. Hopefully, if they ever re-release the game, they add in options to replace the button mashing with something different.
Games like Tomb Raider or God of War have an option to wear instead of mashing buttons, you can hold the button, that’d be nice, it’d feel like Bombette or Bobbery. But yeah Nintendo for some reason doesn’t think about Disability Accessibility as much as Sony or Microsoft or even Indie Developers, hopefully they get better.
1:01:35 hopefully this ages well
I predict that it will sell very well. Who knows if it will sell more than PMOK, but I'm hopeful it will be enough for Nintendo to make a new Paper Mario game in the style of the classic games.
Your wish became true
On the topic of Chapter 4 I see it as a bit of a shout-out to Spirited Away. Think about it, characters being turned into pigs, Mario gets his name taken from him, etc
It definitely could be a reference. I've never thought about that connection before.
49:15 totally understand how this section feels like a slog, but Glitzville is my favorite chapter of the game because of the environment. Replayed the game a couple years ago and I'm replaying it again bc your video made me want to, so if I end up agreeing with you I'll probably comment on it, but I still feel like the environment of the chapter makes up for it (especially that OUT OF NOWHERE Bowser fight with a stadium audience). Chapter 4 tho, god I've never once liked it. The Crazee Dayzee's are maybe the most disgusting enemy in any Mario game and I have gone into utterly horrendous detail into the inhumane acts I'd subject them to to my friends because god they are a despicable enemy that I feel are even worse in Super Paper Mario because they just regularly reset your progress in the tree level if you get hit while jumping between platforms
fuck, even my girlfriend rn has listened to me go on UNHINGED tangents about the Geneva Convention-violating acts I'd commit against this race of miserable flower monsters. I would turn a living one into a salad and make a captive audience of them watch as I drowned their still-living brother in ranch dressing before going to town
I definitely enjoyed Glitzville! The repeat actions were my least favorite aspect, but the actual content of the chapter was still really enjoyable.
@@ZillennialRosa completely understandable, especially because one fight is a scripted loss and it does pad things out a bit, but at least it's a good tutorial for using Yoshi
That Luigi side story has too many oRIgiNaL CHarAcTErS for current Nintendo to put effort into. Cookie bloopers? Nah, this is 2023 Nintendo, we don’t believe in that.
Imagine they remaster TTYD but they remove all the unique characters and replace them with Toads
Out of context comment here just to lure the juicy algortithm in 😅 Are you from Monterrey, México by any means? That "OXXO" sign and the suspicious background from where it rises seems oddly familiar... And, judging from the narrative you try to incorporate with this retrospective series as a whole, would the creation of the character from your avatar really be such a "sinister" event? Because I think it would be kind of the opposite if your ask me 😉I really appreciate the amount of work you put into the production of these videos and hope your channel can become as big as you wish in the near future. Best regards! P.S.: If Mario doesn't get into touch with Vivian again then I would gladly try to find her and give her a big hug!
I'm glad someone finally acknowledged the Oxxo sign lol. My family is originally from Sonora. I'm glad you've noticed the hints I've been dropping surrounding the narrative. Episode 3 is going to be a big turning point in this retrospective, and things will never be the same. Thank you so much for watching and enjoying! ❤️
This game is a Chad for committing to the expanded world of Mario and including Piantas and Beanfolk, tying in with Sunshine and Mario & Luigi to create a cohesive brand. That Miyamoto, Kimishima, Furukawa, or even Iwata decided all this had to go and massively genericized Paper Mario and Mario as a whole for over a decade is baffling, but I hope the remake of TTYD will move things back in this direction.
The remake gives me a ton of hope, especially considering the fact that Super Mario RPG is getting the same treatment
Glad to finally hear someone go in depth about Vivian's gender, I haven't heard anyone else point out how problematic the original text was. Great video!
Thank you! Vivian is an important character to me, and I wanted to make sure I went in depth with her story.
I think most people don’t go in depth with her gender because it was cut out of the English release. Also, could you please explain what about the original text is problematic?
@@diamondminer5459 the explanation is in the video my guy
Oh ho ho ho. Looking back on the part of the discussion about the game not having a release on more modern hardware is delicious after the Switch re…make? Remaster? …The Switch version was announced. Nobody could have predicted it, least of all me, since I figured Nintendo was just gonna ignore classic Paper Mario and press on with their own thing. And while there’s nothing wrong with that… I’m just happy the game is getting a second lease on life.
This is one of my favorite games of all time, and I can’t say enough how much I enjoy it. Naturally, it’s not above critique, and yeah, the backtracking is present to a degree the first game didn’t have nearly as much problem with. But the game is just so fun I can easily acknowledge it and not be bothered by it at all. Though, the part of backtracking that I dislike the most is revisiting old areas, since Paper Mario 64 had a lot more direct and close together Warp Pipes to the older areas in the Toad Town Tunnels. Here, Glitzville alone has no warp and JUST the blimp, and the rest feel a bit more inconvenient to get to.
Also, with regard to the topic of Vivian, she’s great. Trans, not trans, she is a she, and she’s a great character. …And she is, for the record, I’m not here to say she’s not, just that she’s a great character from her character alone, and her being trans is just more good on top of that.
This game is one of my favorite games ever and stands the test of time in my eyes alongside 64, as I have mentioned in that video’s comments. These two games and Super are a great trio of games that I hold all three in high regard. And these videos have a lot of great work put into them and I’m looking forward to watching the next ones in this retrospective.
(Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond to your comments)
The remaster of TTYD for Switch still doesn't feel real, but I'm very excited to talk about it when it releases. I might even use it as an opportunity to cover aspects of the game that I wasn't able to touch on in this video, or at least things that I wish I had explained better.
I find it kinda funny how the last video in the retrospective as of writing this is Super. You might still be working on it, but I like to imagine that Sticker Star is so garbage that the retrospective just ended there. Because it’s funnier.
Lol, I was actually kind of tempted to do that. I am eventually going to make a Sticker Star video, but I needed a break from Paper Mario, so I took a little intermission to make some smaller videos.
idk the critique part was a little drawn out, like was opening doors really worth mentioning?
That's fair. I probably didn't need to go into every example. I'm trying to cater to both players who have already played the game, as well as new viewers who have no experience with it. I wanted to focus on it a bit more since it had such a big impact on my initial attempts at playing it. I mentioned the doors because there were a few moments where I didn't know what to do, so I had to check each individual room, and each time I had to open a door, it started to add up in my head and feel more annoying.
It was definitely worth mentioning. The animation of the doors on the train takes long enough to get annoying when you have to check all of the rooms. Normally it wouldn't be something that you would mention, but in a game like ttyd where you constantly go back and forth the slow animations start to add up and make the game feel much more tedious than it should be.
Hey we get a remake now!
We do, and I hope we don't have to wait to long for it!
I love TTYD a lot but Grodus is soooo boring and I don’t find the Shadow Queen to be that interesting.
Personally I vastly prefer how BIS handled the “villain awakens an ancient evil” because it made both villains better for it
I like a lot of the individual stories in the game, but I do agree that the main villains aren't especially interesting.
@@ZillennialRosa yeah the side stories are really strong, definitely the biggest draw for me
So how are you feeling about the remake that was announced?
Long version: My reaction to it and immediate thoughts are in this video th-cam.com/video/ikN-L-ZkSVM/w-d-xo.html
Short version: I'm very happy and excited
#RemasterThousandYearDoor
At the very least put it on the Switch. Its lack of preservation displeases me.
im thinking about dat
16:34 he doesn't know about rally wink lol
With the remake coming, the main thing I can't help but wonder is how they're going to handle Vivian's identity. Will they have it be where she identifies as female but thr game frames her as male? Will she be completely cis-gendered the whole time? Or will she be transgender? And this is not even getting into the localization factor.
I do hope that she will be written as transgender as that gives her story more depth. (Besides, her form is much more easily malleable as it's not completely solid, so even from a conservative perspective, it's not hard to accept that she can change herself)
Trans people have become far more well known in the years since the original released. We already know that some script changes are being made, so it is a very likely possibility that Vivian will be more explicitly trans in the English versions. It's not a guarantee, but more likely, especially with NOA's localization team and how plugged in they seem to be.
@@ZillennialRosa I hope you're right. Nonetheless, I at least hope they won't do the weird OG Japanese version where she identifies as one thing but the game treats it differently. Even the US version is acceptable. The Italian version is best. Either way, it doesn't detract from her character arc of escaping abuse and finding family amongst former enemies.
@@cadethumann8605 It's a possibility that the Japanese version will remain largely unchanged (though apparently even the Japanese script differs from the original based on what has been shown so far, so perhaps that version will be better). If the English version does acknowledge her being trans, I highly doubt that they would be as careless as the 2004 script was. A lot of little things seem to be modernized, and I would assume that the respect to Vivian is a part of that.
@cadethumann8605 this is a great call out. genuinely hoping they leave the trans component with Vivian for the same reasons you stated… I mean, so many fans have complained how the current games are devoid of diversity the original PM strived for. for those who can’t stand that notion of Vivian being trans, maybe they are the ones who deserved nothing but toads occupying the PM universe.
not to get on a highhorse, but I think media such as this has a responsibility to showcase underrepresented communities when traditional structures have failed them. i mean seriously… we can stand tig bitties on wind spirits and naked invisible princesses, but we lose our minds at the mere existence of a purple trans girl in our fantasy games??? seriously? anyway, fantastic video @JJZillennial! lets hope they cut back on some backtracking and give us some more mobility like spin jumpies :3
@bristolwork Yeah, man. Even better is that Vivian would be one of the better-written trans characters. Usually, they just have the trans person be their one defining trait and nothing else. With Vivian, she it would be only one aspect of her and it's small in comparison to other aspects. She had been living a sheltered and abusive life with her sisters as well as being misguided to work on the bad guys' side. Then she stumbles across someone who does treat her decently and she eventually defects to the good guys. She basically has more depth than the usual trans character. This would be a great opportunity to incorporate this detail in the remake to show how you handle the subject.
i’m here from the future to deliver a message… vivian’s transness is restored in the remake!!!
People complain about backtracking way too much. I'll give you Chapter 4 being a little annoying, and I can see the hunt for General White frustrating people, but when I was a kid I barely noticed it all. I liked going back to see the old towns again.
I'm not going to say I like backtracking, but I really don't think it's as much an issue as people make it out to be.
I think complaining about it is valid. Different people just have a different level of tolerance for it, but it is nonetheless still a constant throughout the game. Some chapters definitely have it a lot less, but it's definitely there, and playing PM64 before this game made it stand out a lot more to me. Definitely doesn't ruin the game or anything, it's just a bit of a blemish on what is otherwise a peak RPG.
@@ZillennialRosa Entirely fair. I hadn't even realized chapter 1 had backtracking until you mentioned it, but once you did it was pretty obvious.
Fun retrospective
I had never thought of the Vivian stuff like this... it's true that the game misgender her. I played the French version of the game the most often and it does do that too. I guess standards have changed in 20 years, which is good
Now we wait and see how they handle the remake coming out next year.
Yeahhhh the backtracking can get pretty annoying, if not downright *absurd*, especially in chapters 4 and 7. I grew up with the game and it remains my favorite in the series, but I'll be the first to admit that it's halted a couple of my repeat playthroughs. And I say this as someone whose favorite game of all time is METROID PRIME, a game that's also notorious for having a lot of backtracking, soooo that kinda says it all right there. Maybe if we're lucky, they'll touch up on some of that stuff in the remake.
I think chapter 4 is kind of overhated in that regard. The backtracking is the entire reason that chapter works. Your first trip is normal, in fact it's kind of a breeze. The player is just running through a new area.
Then, on the return trip, you have to go through without partners. It highlights to the player just how vulnerable they've become without anyone to back them up. Suddenly all the combat is much harder.
Then your next trip back is with Vivian. It serves as both a relief, as now you have a partner again to make things a little less stressful, but it's also an opportunity to practice her combat mechanics and overworld abilities. Each trip comes with new context.
Now, yes, ideally the final trip to town and back could have been streamlined. Maybe Vivian's abilities could be used to open a shortcut between town and the steeple or something. Still, it's only a few rooms and won't take the player very long to return. Not perfect, but honestly it mostly works. Just fumbles a bit at the end. I wouldn't call it absurd.
I honestly think TTYD's backtracking is an overblown issue. Most of the time it's either very short, just a few rooms, or it recontextualizes the experience by giving a new party member or a new visual look.
Yeah, we'll just have to wait and see. It seems that the area layouts are faithful to the original, but these days with how much everyone touts playtime, they'll probably leave it as is since it increases the amount of time it takes to reach the end, and the game was also balanced around the backtracking.
Can’t believe a paper Mario series reminded me that Celeste is a trans allegory and a goddamn good one
Celeste was made by a trans woman who hadn't yet cracked her egg, and the composer Lena Raine is also trans.
I can understand some of the complaints you have about the game but im sorry but i dont I I'll _ever_ understand people that complain about the backtracking in this game. It's not underplayed by fans its incredibly OVERplayed critics. Besides the General White quest and _maybe_ chapter 4 it's hardly there at all. Again sorry for the rant but the backtracking complaints drive me crazy.
I completely disagree about it hardly being there aside from chapters 4 and 7. Those are the more notable examples, but chapters 5 and 6 also have some significant padding in them, and the game as a whole has several moments of retreading familiar ground without any new additions. I want to reiterate that these moments don't ruin the game as a whole for me, but I did find them frustrating, especially in a JRPG where the areas I'm backtracking through are linear hallways where one wrong step can force me into a turn-based battle against an enemy I've already fought a dozen times. It hurts the overall pacing and momentum of the chapter. These moments stand out a lot more when compared to the first Paper Mario which I found to be paced incredibly well, aside from its slow tutorial section.
As a trans person I really appreciate you talking about the whole thing with Vivian's gender! I've watched so many videos about TTYD and this is the only one who even mentions that, it's just so nice to see someone talking about it, thank you! We love Vivian our trans gal icon!
I'm really happy to hear that! I was worried I would get a lot of negative comments, but for the most part, I've seen a lot of other people who are also happy I talked about Vivian being trans. Hopefully that bodes well for an announcement I'm planning on making at the end of my next video (wink).
Vivian or Birdo, who is the better LBGT Mario character?
@@03bgoodVIVIAN
I was too fond or a big fan of The Thousand Year Door to begin with due to it being a massive departure from Paper Mario 64 and featuring too many rehashed ideas from it.
Almoay perfect?
I just finished Paper Mario 64, and by chapter 2, you notice ALL the wrong changes Nintendo put into this one.. making it definitely worse
Such as?
1:01:34 !!!!!!!
I made this happen
I think all those edgy, mature and darker themes in this one is why I ultimately liked the first one better and have a much better feeling playing the game overall. I even like the partners and environments better in the first one they seem like they belong in the Mario universe more. This game just has the advancements in gameplay and mechanics that made it a better experience.
I mentioned it in the video, but to me, the first game is a lot more consistent, whereas TTYD has better mechanics and more "highs" but lower "lows" than the original game. Both are definitely worth playing.
im blind so it was hard to get through the stupid sections
There's a cultural aspect to the whole trans thing in Japan that's different from how we in the west see it. Japan is a traditionally collectivist society, compared to the west being traditionally individualist. To oversimplify it... in both cases, traditionalist ideologies hate "different from the norm", and that's actually the source of Japan's different mindset toward trans people specifically. In the west, gays are hated by traditionalists for being different, and trans people are hated even more for being "more" different, because the individualist culture of the west sees people as individuals first rather than for their place in society. However, the collectivist Japanese see people as part of a greater whole rather than an individual. From this perspective, it's seen as more acceptable to be trans than it is to be gay, because being trans comes with an inherent attempt to "fall in line", to be exactly as society expects you to; someone who acts traditionally feminine and presents themselves as traditionally feminine but is physically a man would be more accepted by their society after going through a sex change operation, because the new version of themselves now falls more closely into the traditional gender roles they value.
I watched a video by Moon channel that dove into this cultural difference, which I found quite intriguing.
Lets make vivians hat a trans icon. It'll be great.
She already is to me.
Ok, I get an appreciate the trans stuff with Vivian, but I feel the bit about Mario is a bit of a stretch. Doopliss steals Mario's appearance and makes Mario look like Doopliss. That's like you fighting Hitler and then after the fight, you look like Hitler and Hitler looks like you. I'd say that's a bit different than being trans or queer because it was something that was forced onto him by someone else. I don't think identity theft really fits into the narrative you're trying to spin there. If you're best friend is standing next to you and your school bully comes up to you claiming to be your best friend and he just looks like the school bully, you wouldn't believe him even if your best friend has been acting a bit strange.
I think this is being a bit too literal. I'm not saying that the devs intended the chapter to be a queer allegory, but I'm saying that a lot of what happens in the chapter feels very relatable to trans people. It doesn't have to be explicit or even intended for a queer reading to be extrapolated, and that's one of my favorite parts of media analysis. The part about the Mario stuff was the idea of having to "fight" for your identity, to be seen as who you truly are, something a lot of trans people are dealing with right now as transphobia continues to rise, and as transition becomes harder to achieve due to bills and legislation. Not being supported or allowed to transition is essentially like having a different identity forced upon you. Outcast stories are relatable to most people, but for those in the queer community, they hold a special kind of significance.
Vivian is not trans hope this helps!
Your comment helps this video do better in the algorithm to spread the message that Vivian IS trans, so thanks. This does help actually
@@ZillennialRosa Happy to educate you anytime
I'm pretty sure both Vivian and Birdo are, in fact trans.
Does the gender of a fictional character in a game almost 20 years old really matter
Yes.
It's in the game, and I'm analyzing and reflecting on the game. Therefore, it does matter. Different aspects of media matter to and resonate with people for many different reasons. This is my retrospective, so I talk about the parts of the game that I want to talk about. For trans people, having a character that can reflect them and their experiences can be incredibly meaningful.
@@ZillennialRosa seems a rather insignificant translation error to me but to each their own I guess
@@ZillennialRosaHuman beings do not have a gender or a "gender identity." Nobody is "transgender."
vivian is a trans icon ❤
And we love her! ❤️
overrated game
You gonna talk about your reasoning or just leave it at that?
Japan based transphobe???????
It was a different time.
Preach trans Vivian, my good fellow 🏳️⚧️
On the note of the backtracking; even the part of how you upgrade partners was modified to include backtracking. 64 had the super blocks where you hit it and the partner upgrade was done then & there, but TTYD has the shine sprites that you have to find 3 of and then backtrack to Merlon to for the same effect. It's weird how several of Nintendo's big hitters in the Gamecube era have lots of padding in them -- not only this, but Wind Waker and Sunshine have really obvious spots of stretched out design to boosts that severely hampers replayability. I have to wonder what kind of deadlines or playtime-length-quotas they were under, or how hard the Gamecube was to develop for.
Also, thank you for bringing up the Rougeport / Sewers vs. Toad Town thing. The blandness and lack of cohesion between areas the sewers introduces really does harm the feeling of adventure, feeling more like a protracted level select screen in a game that's rock solid at the core but already bloated by backtracking and lackluster side content, and I've never see it brought up in discussions until now.
-Let's just say Vivian is very special to me for...reasons. That's my not so subtle hint at something happening in the future with this retrospective series.
-I wish I had brought up the detail with the partners, but that is definitely a good point. Also, Twilight Princess with the goddess tears could count if you want to consider that more of a Gamecube game.
-I'm also surprised no one really talked about how separate the sewers felt. It's funny how the warp pipes are such a small difference, but they make a huge difference in the feeling of cohesion.
Tbh I don't think it was that big a deal in TTYD's case. Sure, it wasn't immediate, but since Merlon was in Rogueport it just sort of seemed to be a thing to do in between chapters, and I really liked the between-chapter experience of doing side quests and minigames, plus the dialogue for every character in Rogueport changed each chapter so it was nice to talk to everyone to see what's up.