I love how Linus made sure to protect his $220k investment in the company and showed the laptop repair/replace process in the best light possible, by... Not reading the instruction manuals and fumbling through the entire thing without even using a parts tray, thus making the entire process look a lot more painful than it actually probably is? 😂😂😂
I think its also important to note that even if something is easy with instructions. Easy-Medium WITHOUT instructions, is imporant too. (Ignoring how much experience Linus has with putting PC parts together) If you can easily do it without instructions, that goes a long way towards proving the easily modular design is effective
This could be a great future for thin clients. Killed the battery in my last laptop because it was mostly sitting connected to power during the pandemic due to having no place to go.
Arguably the swappable modules make much less sense for the desktop, because they're ultimately just USB-C devices, and while the module slotting into a laptop chassis has value in terms of form factor, there's not really any advantage to a module slotting into a desktop instead of just plugging in a dongle version.
I know, I want to get their laptop now so I can make a mini PC in the future. All kinds of great uses for one. Need to see if they sell in Canada though?
@@KyurekiHana newer laptops shouldn't keep eletric current flowing through the battery when the battery is full and you're plugged in. older ones who couldn't achieve this usually would let you remove the battery
Too bad 90% of laptop owners are idiots, then. Kinda defeats the purpose of this whole thing. Most people will never upgrade or repair their framework laptop.
19:18 Not to mention, if you didn’t have a use for your old one, you could sell your old main board to someone who needs a repair but not an upgrade, recouping some of your upgrade costs, saving that person more money and reducing waste.
Framework could even implement a future discount if you sold your old boards or components back to them, and they could sell those at a discount for more ease of access and less waste. People wouldn't have to mess with ebay or craigslist, it would be great for a more rural market where you maybe couldn't unload your older parts easily.
if Framework don't already have a marketplace like this, they should definitely make one. Having a first party aftermarket would be a huge selling point
Really love what Framework is doing here! Its such an important step towards a world where anti-consumer practices are hopefully less common assuming Framework can make it big.
The real money is in business machines, they’re like 2-3x the price of standard high-end consumer laptops for tiny differences like “pro cpus” and these guys will never break that market.
@@jay-5061 typically the business grade machines will have higher quality parts as well as quadro gpus which in general are more expensive. You are paying for the reliability mainly though.
We all love Linus’s style of doing stuff on his own but a part of these videos really should be analyzing the documentation that these companies provide for these repairs and mods that you do. Bad documentation vs good documentation can make a really big difference between a friendly user experience and a frustrating user experience. Hope you guys consider this for future videos
I feel like in the last year or so Linus has gotten a bit bad about going more in depth with these kinds of things, probably because he is waiting for LMG Labs so that he can have more confidence in what he says.
It's good, but having replaceable parts is pointless if they shouldn't need to be replaced in the first place. You might as well have just bought a laptop from an established brand that has better quality assurance. If the replacement parts are covered by a warranty though, then ignore me.
With miniaturized components and a recycling mindset, I'd love a crossover with DIY perks even though he's across the ocean. Would be glorious if it could happen, I mean the guy made a PS5 slim and the best invisible PC/integrated desk PC I've ever seen.
honestly linus personally investing in framework is one of my favorite moves he's made because nothing makes me trust and enjoy this channel more than seeing that the guy i'm coming here for directly supports and is willing to throw his wallet behind the technological future that I want to see.
That mini-PC print-out thingy is actually the coolest thing I've ever seen for these kind of parts. Would be very easy to resell them later down the line as office PCs.
Seriously!! I want one of those. It just looks like a router and I absolutely LOVE it. Would also love to see it run off battery power too just because why not.
I'm interested in that, but also with the laptop battery to use as a car-pc to retrofit modern electronics and features into my old Lincoln....I'm also hoping the prices will come down eventually.
That little 3D printed chassis gave me so many ideas, I think using the spare parts as a desktop PC is only scratching the surface of the possibilities of that little machine. Add the battery in and the possibilities only multiply.
I'm all for this framework laptop. However for the average user once they replace a part (say what Linus did there to replace a motherboard) they wouldn't know what to do with it. Why not have an option on their website that says if u want to send the old part back to us and knock off some price of the new purchased board. They'd be able to repurpose the old part and sell it again no?
Yeah I’d love that as well. Likely needs new procedures and employees though to take back motherboard, verify no damage, verify all ports still work so they can give it a grade and slap on a warranty.
what should they do with the board? sell it again? fairphone just has a marketplace where people sell their parts to eachother, its kinda works and i think its a more realistic solution to that problem. i think framework is a bit too tech heavy for the average user. fairphone really has that part down, but they lack in other regards where framework does much better. but then again, maintaining android over a wide range of configurations is nearly impossible, not so much with linux or windows which come from a legacy mentality.
@@tjeulink actually that super cool. Selling parts to each other is such a good thing especially who doesn't want latest and greatest every year. For eg I will be happy to buy 11th gen motherboard for ~60-65% of the original price from someone who doesn't need it anymore
@@rapiddu6482 You know what buying used means right? We been doing this since the start. I'm personally a 4-5 gen behind kinda guy. Lol, sorry, was just funny how you were so focused on the context you didn't realize it was just a contrivance of something completely normal.
I've had my Framework laptop since near the beginning of February and am so far really happy with it. It was super simple to assemble, it's pretty powerful, it has reasonable (but not outstanding) battery life. I've not really made use of the ability to swap out the modules, so far I've been happy with a USB-C and a USB-A on each side, I have an HDMI module sitting on my desk but haven't used it. I'm not someone who needs to sit on the bleeding edge of computing hardware, so I won't be getting this motherboard upgrade, but I'm really happy that it's likely that I WILL be able to upgrade when the time comes.
" that I WILL be able to upgrade when the time comes." This absolutely. The main regret over buying a laptop is that you're stuck with it forever, and eventually its components will be too outdated to keep up with new hardware, having no way to upgrade. Framework is an absolute game changer, the fact that you can turn the older components into a spare PC is mind blowing!
@@whitehavencpu6813 you know that when you buy a new laptop you are not obligated to drop the old one in the bin, you can still use it as a home pc. Also, you will still need more just the motherborad to be able to use your old hardware, ram and storage also required, but at that point you are basically buying a new mini pc, that is already outdated. Being able to upgrade is nice i agree, but in reality, the price is what drives consumers and convenience, this one does not provide both.
@@АнтонК-х1ж I meant that if the old laptop stopped working, you can't just strip it down and turn the working components into a pc, very rarely is that possible due to various integration issues, but with frame-work and how modular all their parts are its possible to simply convert the old hardware into a different machine.
This video tripled my confidence in Framework. I love that Linus takes such a pragmatic, level-headed approach to reviewing their products honestly -- it honestly makes me *more* likely to buy them because I feel like there's zero chance of getting something I wasn't expecting. With framework, I know what I'm buying and I know the company's values are aligned with mine. Awesome company and awesome video. I hope framework sees many years of success to come.
I know nothing about framework, but let's hope they never become publicly traded unless they already are. That always takes companies away from their morals and makes them care about nothing but profit, cost cutting, taking advantage of customers, etc. I'll keep an eye on framework for the next time I need a laptop, 4-5 years from now
Poorly designed hinges, which other laptop companies figured out how to make back in 2004. What else did they goof up? Linus' laptop came without Ethernet, which is included on today's laptops. If you are going to design something, get people in there that know laptops.
This modular repairable design idea is really up my alley. I really hope this becomes a more competitive market in the future for all types of electronics, not just laptops.
it is my hope they'll eventually work out swappable GPUs and a CPUs. Admittedly CPUs is easy, since that is "put middleman PCB on and put a socket on the board" while GPUs are a bit more difficult because that will require some kind of daughter board and a good data and power link
@@InfernosReaper They don't even need to do a seperate PCB and socket for the CPU. I have a Dell Latitude from 2011 which is completely user serviceable. The CPU is an i5-2540m on socket G2, and is incredibly easy to remove. It's definitely possible to design laptop CPUs to be user-removable (LGA/PGA instead if BGA). The GPU would still be difficult.
@@ajhauter5049 at some point AMD & Intel decided to not do their laptop CPUs to where they could be in a socket and swappable. Most manufacturers just build within that limitation. Thus, unless you want to try to run desktop CPUs in a laptop, you're gonna have to do some kind of addon(s) to the CPU to make it work right in a socket... or design a special socket and heatsink setup to accommodate laptop CPUs. *Maybe* if enough orders are made AMD and/or Intel would comply, but that's a huge maybe.
"Geographic Expansion" - YES! also, I get that they may be doing what looks like baby steps, but every risk they take must be measured, one step on the wrong direction may be the end for the company, while the giants have plenty of cash to spare in case of a big mistake.
Not to mention when you take on giants, you're liable to get stomped out if you pose any real threat to them. Today's consumers don't even know what rights they don't have, and Framework is trying to tell them they deserve more. The industry has kept their user base in the freezer for a long time and they're not going to like some small business trying to thaw them out. ...yes, that was a crappy chilling effect metaphor.
@@flubnub266 Or, these companies are taking advantage of the outrage and creating fake cheapo garbage to scam people too stupid to realize that the big competitors have successful products because they have the money, time, engineering and resources to make it. While a tiny company of investor scammers do not. You are being led like sheep into opportunist's hands, like Linus has.
@John Smith If the company has to close down, future entrepreneurs might interpret it as a cautionary tale and think the business model doesn't work, which would be bad. You're right that the idea wouldn't die, but I certainly think think would turn out better if Framework succeeds.
@John Smith Amen, there is one company doing something similar on the phone side if I am not mistaken, I just can´t remember the name now, but what I meant is that the progress may be slower at the start because the giants may know and fear what is to come, so they can try to take a swing on one miss step or something. may I can´t wait for framework to become mainstream so it gets to my country. I wonder if they are looking for partners on other countries
I’ve been an owner of one of these since batch 4 and 5, and I’ve loved pretty much everything about it besides what was mentioned in the video. I’ve already used their ability to upgrade and swap parts around about 3-4 times for personal preference, nothing that the laptop caused, and it been insanely easy. Seriously, I’m taking this to school doing game dev, and with an external monitor along with this and my tower, I’m not worried a bit. Please, if you’re watching this and considering buying it, go for it. It’s so much easier to deal with than anything else out there.
The fact that they've engaged with Louis Rossman in good faith discussions about schematics is a very good sign to me. There are only a handful of companies that are this open with system 76 being the only other that comes to mind.
Speaking of System76, I hope there will be some collaborative effort between them and Framework someday -- imagine the Framework laptop, but with officially supported and pre-installed Coreboot and Pop!_OS. Imagine the Framework mainboard inside a desktop case, with the transparency and quality of design of a System76 Thelio!
I'm not even a laptop user myself, but I'm absolutely rooting for Framework and have told people about them. If all the sudden I needed a laptop, I'd absolutely consider them first. So I have brand loyalty with a company I have no personal experience with - and it's purely because of how they respect the end users and the environment. It's always so refreshing hearing about Framework and their progress as opposed to companies such as Apple, who are not only hostile towards Android and PC users but they even resent their own users and treat them like garbage. Hopefully Framework and other right to repair companies like them are the future of consumer electronics because as the chip shortage made clear, the current way we treat everything as disposable is completely unsustainable.
Same boat. I am not a laptop user (at home) but I am rooting for them and I'd buy one if I needed a laptop. I've also recommended them to others before as well.
@@jojobobbubble5688 It might be not an accurate term to describe it but it means a masochist, I realize that for some reason I let Apple do their nonsense despite knowing it’s just Apple being the usual asshole company to their customer.
As a student looking for a new laptop for university next year, I love the way the framework laptop works. Everything is so easily swappable and user accessible. With a laptop being my only computer, having so much granularity and control over my device is comforting and adds a huge piece of mind. The ability to also repurpose old motherboards is such a neat concept and I can easily see myself upgrading and setting aside a motherboard as a media server or a mc server host. Lots of great stuff from framework, I hope they continue pushing right to repair because this looks super good so far :)
Bought one for a younger relative student, 6 months so far, very happy. He is a non-tech guy, by the way. Battery life is too short (4,5 h) for my taste. But his course work is light, and a mix of offline/online, living very close to university, so he never runs into problems with the battery. Trackpad is a bit loose for my taste. Yet it works so far well for him and is - if it goes bad - user replaceable. He liked hard switches for camera and microphone a lot, plus the fingerprint reader. The screen is bright, so reflection is less of a problem.
@@tralala8980 Battery life is something I'd have to watch, but hopefully in the next few months the drain issue can be resolved I'm currently using a 6 year old thinkpad so minor imperfections aren't going to be a bother
@@theslavicimmigrant4795 This is definitely not a value machine, I am looking at getting a new thinkpad or even an asus G14 as the price to performance ratio is quite a bit better (more on the asus than thinkpad side). If I could spend the money I would, but I'd definitely have to wait and see.
Watching this made me realize how important on-board assembly diagnostics are for a user-serviceable device. Being able to quickly identify missing screws/components would go a long way towards ensuring that all users (regardless of their organizational skills) can complete repairs/replacements.
For screws, electronic detection will turn into a nightmare of anti-repair features. Clearly labeling screw positions and limiting the total types needed will do a lot more. "Oh. Where does this extra 7mm long screw go?, looks around and finds an empty hole marked 7x3 in the hinge."
@@johndododoe1411 additionally, they could limit the number of screws by making one side slide into a slot, and then the other side is the only side that needs a screw. (Like an M.2 slot on a motherboard, it's held down on both sides, but only uses 1 screw)
I strongly support reducing the number of necessary fasteners with good engineering and bright markings for screw locations (which are covered when a screw is inserted). I also support electronic detection systems (when appropriate), but on-board systems can be as complex as a full bios level readout or as simple as a labeled storage compartment included in the device housing. I think we agree on the principle that if Linus missed a screw in reassembly, this should be looked at a bit more on the design/engineering side.
I've been trying to be better about e-waste (and $-waste) so I'm planning ride my current laptop as long as I can, but whenever it does finally die I'm absolutely going for one of these. This kind of modularity and real hardware ownership of a laptop is something the world has needed for so long.
I've really enjoyed my Framework laptop I got a year ago (after trusting your stake in them) and its been great. I run Pop_OS! and have had no problems. I'm holding out on upgrades for a ryzen model but the ability to use the motherboard outside of the shell is so exciting
I'm now considering the Framework for having a futureproof laptop. Swapping the I/O rig seemed cool in the beginning, but not very useful in the sense of 'upgrading' things, it felt like it'd be useful for just changing your loadout or repairing something. Swapping the motherboard for a new gen CPU, swapping chassis for more sturdiness, now that is extremely cool and makes a huge difference
I would pick a framework myself as someone who is pretty tech-savyy. However, I still went with the Macbook Pro. No upgradability, repairability, but incredible inclusion, interaction between devices and battery life, which is crucial for me as a student. In the end, what you purchase depends solely on what you are going to use it for. The company policies might be wrong, and in these times, Framework might be something that will grow and lead the way for other companies in the future, which is what I hope for, regardless if it's too optimistic or not.
@@botagasss MacBooks are far and away the best laptops for all around use. Even our once apple hating coders all switched to MacBooks. Now desktops? Windows all day everyday
@@RealNathanExplosion "Even our once apple hating coders all switched to MacBooks" Idk what universe you came from, but in ours coders have always been hypocritical regarding apple.
I can't even count the amount of times that I've handled a laptop and said "I'd buy this if only they didn't fuck up this one feature" being able to retroactively swap simple parts (and even in the future had a catalogue of parts for one component) Really could feasibly make this the last laptop you need to buy.
Except that their screens are shiny, low refresh rate, there aren't full size arrow keys or a TB4 module. Oh and the screen is too small for my use case. If they made options for all of these things I'd probably get one. But just a few swappable modules that I could just use an adapter for really isn't all that appealing to me.
@@allanshpeley4284 They are a small company, they simply cannot do everything at once. In the future, I believe they will fix the problems you are talking about.
@@FilSerge There is no way to make a totally different designed board fit, when the board going in without the GPU on it barely fits as it is. Probably why they haven't done it already.
IIRC because all of the modular connectors are USB-C, they *have* to wait for Zen4 in order to be able to supply ~~video out~~ (edit: sorry--eGPU support) as Zen3 doesn't support Thunderbolt 3 (Zen4 will support USB4). I'll tell you what I would love but is almost certainly not technologically feasible--nom-embedded CPUs like on the ASRock DeskMini line.
@@GSBarlev Zen3 does support Thunderbolt3, but its up to the boardmakers to make it happen.. if it didnt we wouldnt have boards like. Gigabyte TRX40 Designare X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 Also dont forget Asus ProArt B550-CREATOR which has Thunderbolt 4
@@GSBarlev There are laptop out with desktop CPUs (Namely Clevo's) but main issue is obviously their much higher power draw. It's more practical w/ 12th gen intel b/c of p and e cores but still not great. Framework would probably have to redesign their chassis for greater airflow and size due to that as well. End of the day, it's probably more work for what it's worth.
having access to schematic and 1st party replacement parts is awesome. As a a marketing and growth strategy, I believe offering easy upgrades of motherboards will flood the used market with "older" but still extremely worthy hardware that will let newcomers join the framework boat at a lower price point. I think it would be optimal if they offered this "in-house" with the option for trade-ins when upgrading and the possibility of buying laptops with used hardware on their own website (even if delivered in a to-be-assembled format and no warranty whatsoever)
Loving the progress that Framework is making, I really really hope they keep on moving forward and expanding their lineup. Hopefully they'll eventually make bigger versions and add GPU options at some point. It'd be especially cool if they could make a separate GPU board that you could upgrade independently of the main board.
I'd be intrigued to see what they could do if AMD does actually partner with them. Something with AMD's Ryzen 9 6900HS? A collaboration with Valve to make a SteamOS compliant laptop? That would be legitimately intriguing.
I've been building and repairing PCs since the 80s, had a store for over two decades repairing anything electronic, this is just how we do it.... I've sat on carpet, on a bed, in the back of a car, etc and did repair work on PCs and other electronics. No "screw holder" or "guides".... It's called remembering what you did and just reversing it. If that doesn't work count holes. If one part has 5 holes and another has 3 holes and you have 5 screws of the same size and 3 screws of the same size guess what??? It's mostly just basic common sense tbh. Something that doesn't seem to exist anymore... I don't do it for a living anymore, mostly just my own stuff or if I get something cheap to fix up and sell. But you are right if you're doing it multiple times a day everyday it might be worth it. I never cared enough but I guess some people do that's why magnetic mats exist. But let's be serious here, Linus doesn't really do repairs multiple times a day. He just shows up to have fun with his money from time to time while all his paid friends do any actual work. ;)
@inc0der dev If I wanted to read a novel I'd buy a book, which is just silly. Nothing you typed will be read by me but good job wasting your time anyway. What I said was reality and truth, really don't care what you pretend to think. Good day.
@@Alcoholic_Nerd I pull out multiple sheets of paper and stick some tape on there in lines vaguely correlating to the screws on the device and stick each one on relatively close to where they came from. The multiple sheets are of course for layers and sides, because some laptops require you to flip things over to unscrew yet more. Take a pen and scrawl a quick note if I need more to organize them. Super easy, barely an inconvenience.
@@anon_y_mousse Sorry but not worth the time or effort, as I've said I have repaired thousands of PCs and other electronics for decades and never once needed any such nonsense... Just like he said when someone offered something to him... *shrug*
It's the most underrated part of the motherboard. FOUR. Not one, not two, not three, but FOUR USB4 ports with TBolt support on Every. Single. Port. I can't think of a single other laptop that does that.
@@johnbuscher yeah, AFAIK every single port has its own dedicated controller too, which is INSANE. That's where your hidden cost is going when people ask "BUT ITS SO EXPENSIVE"
As someone that runs a small homelab, I LOVE the reusable motherboard into mini pc theme. I know you can do that already with any laptop but the motherboards are generally weird shapes etc. That makes it an accessible gateway into hobbyist homelab projects which is cool.
The option to repurpose the old motherboard to a mini pc instantly made me think of mounting it to the back of a TV with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Instant HTPC and it could stream games from your main PC easily.
That'd be pretty neat too. It reminds me, more darkly, of Syrians repurposing consoles to drone and tank guidance systems. I mean really if you stop thinking like a consoomer and start thinking like a tinkerer, it's like the difference between decadent today and shining glorious tomorrow. Or just being cheap as an old world immigrant. "$1000! what do you mean $1000? $1000 with my sick mother, tell you what I'll pay you $20 for a used motherboard an an old display panel I'll fgure out the rest."
When the ethernet port actually comes out, two of those on the old motherboard would also make for a pretty good firewall with dedicated ingress and egress network ports.
While certainly a very reasonable use case, that's a rather overpowered (and expensive) firewall considering how little CPU a multi-gig internet pfsense/opnsense system needs, and how affordable retired data centre Intel X540-based dual 10G NICs can be bought for.
@@Postman00 Yes but if you were already planning on upgrading your motherboard then it makes sense to use what you already have to make something pretty cool.
This will be the only laptop where you can start with an Intel CPU one gen, then decide to swap out for an AMD one after, potentially. Imagine how crazy that is!
That is the reason I bought one when Linus first talked about them. I knew I was not forcing myself down a path I often swap between intel and AMD. I will probably upgrade it when a AMD option comes out, and use the old intel one as a media pc in the 3d printed enclosure like this, what will be cool about that is with all the modules I can make that work even better. I cant wait for the ethernet module. I may have spent 1600 for my first laptop, which for what I got was pricey. But next time ill probably spend 1000, and bring whole new life into my laptop, and be able to repurpose it.
I worry that putting better and better CPUs into the same chassis will eventually leave not enough room to fit A properly sized heat sink in. Would have been nice to see the thermal curves for them compared.
@@nullvoid3545 well, technically speaking... going from intel 11th to a current gen AMD yea.... and its an ultra portable with no big emphasis on crazy graphics so pretty sure if just using integrated graphics potentially you will just get cooler laptops overall, with that 14 core one they put in??? hmmm
@@nullvoid3545 as long as cpu tdps stay the same as manufacturers go for power efficiency on mobile devices, thermals shouldn't be too different among different cpus. heatsinks have a max tdp rating and so as long as cpus stay under that it shouldn't overheat.
Like Linus says: as a Linux user an AMD option would make this one of the best Linux laptops, so I hope the option will be there once my current laptop breaks/gets too old
@Zephyrius Can concur. Do it on old hardware or a server first, so you can ease into it. For example, I still run Windows on my main machine and will likely continue to do so until it's EOL, but I run Linux on my old laptop.
@@pandemicneetbux2110 lol DW, I started as a web dev, now niche programmer mastering weird languages, never used Linux once in my life. From my understanding Linux is a net code/server based OS. Understanding windows is just as important as language learning.
For using their motherboards in a desktop pc with graphics card, I'd love to see an e-GPU case that allows you to mount the motherboard inside. If it then used modules from the laptop to create custom front and rear I/O, I'm sure it would be a real gamechanger in terms of small form factor PCs
Somebody could technically design a 3D-printed shell for the Framework motherboard that just snaps onto (or screws onto) the e-GPU case. You'd need multiple versions of those (for different e-GPU enclosures), but it's totally doable! Framework could even make the models themselves, for e-GPU docks that they've evaluated and confirmed compatibility with.
I really hope they'll make a future version with a dedicated GPU that is gaming capable. Upgrading your GPU down the line is far more interesting to me than upgrading your CPU.
That'll come down to manufacturers offering suitably sized GPUs (maybe a line specifically for modular laptops?). I really hope it happens, since I do game on laptop about 1/3rd of the time.
Nvidia used to make MXM or something, format graphics 'cards' that where physical cards that could be changed on the mother board. But that format has long since died, a GPU upgrade would involve changing out the entire motherboard including the CPU since intel dose not make socketed mobile processors anymore.
This whole system is really cool. It’s almost like a company pushing out software patches for their product, but in this case they’re creating fixes for the very hardware on which that software and the user interact with each other. Very neat!
Watching Linus struggle more with his own confusion than any real problem with the process... makes me feel so much better about my own experiences with IT. I felt WAY too much joy along with him when the update screen popped up!
I'd also prefer an AMD cpu, but for the better APU options. I'd take the intel though, but I prefer to have a 2-1 device, like with a 360- or z-hinge. Ideally with a pressure sensitive stylus.
AMD isn't much better on the high end... I've got an AMD Gaming Laptop from 2021 and I have to massively turn down the frequency and boosts to keep it cool during regular tasks.
I'm so glad you didn't say they were falling apart. I've been rooting so hard for Framework to succeed and set the standard. Now, if I could only afford one.... Edited for spelling. HA!
I think that's the primary issue with them. Sure right to repair is wonderful. But you need to market that to the common consumer. They need to make it economically make sense more than just environmentally. Sure buying 3 500 dollar laptops over 10 years is horrible for the environment but it takes less out of my bank account when I need a new labtop. Most people aren't buying 1500 dollar labtops they're buying the 4 or 5 hundred dollar ones because they just need it for either work or school and when those wear out or break they just buy another. It needs to be less expensive to maintain your current device than buy a new one. And framework isn't at the moment.
I'm pretty sure when AMD (I think they're waiting for their new iterations to be fit for this) comes in, then they're really going to pick up the pace. As Linus said, for the battery itself, but also for the power consumption overall. It'll be "greener", indeed.
And hopefully the iGPU. It's still way behind a dGPU but AMD can sometimes double the performance of the intel offerings. Not sure if current gen intel iGPU is close yet though. PS someone below mentioned the Steam Deck, and that has a pretty nice last gen AMD iGPU!
Such plans often have to be prepared quite early, especially in big companies like AMD. So probably not. Another option would be ARM, when Windows can finally be fully armed.
my macbook is a mid 2015 macbook pro. i cant remember what crapped out, but apple said since the laptop is no longer covered, it would cost $750 to replace it.
I've ordered a Framework laptop last month as it's now available in Europe, I wouldn't have discovered it without LTT. Glad to see that the company is developing well !
What? I went to their website just now and the only country available I can see is USA. I tried to purchase a module just to see what regions they ship to and the country drop down menu is grayed out and can't be changed. Am I doing something wrong?
Just last week I convinced my boss to let me pitch Framework laptops to a client and they signed off! Can't wait to show my boss this new update on your interactions with being an investor and end user of Framework products to further instill some confidence in the brand and ultimately the environmental benefits they strive for. So excited to start ordering some of these bad boys!
How did you convince him/her to allow you to pitch these laptops to a client? :) Many people are kinda wary of new startup products. By the way, thanks for being for the Right To Repair movement and spreading this Framework laptop brand to everybody, God bless you.
As well as an AMD option I would love to see 15 or 16" option. There would be a bit of carry over from the 13.3" version eg battery, motherboard, keyboard, trackpad even if some of those things would be better having a bespoke 15"+ version
Since they didn‘t separate the IOs onto a separate PCB a 15“ version either needs different IO modules (longer) or a different motherboard. If they had chosen to use flex PCBs to connect the motherboard this would not have been an issue. But I assume that is more expensive.
@@PhilfreezeCH or they could sell an "extender" which adapts 13in mb to 15in by internaly extending the connections for the modules to the jacks. The 15in mb would be a bigger size to accommodate a dedicated GPU and more robust cooling.
I doubt that this will fit their business plan anytime soon. It would require a whole new infrastructure for motherboards etc... And the kind of laptop they are selling currently definitely has the largest amount of interested potential customers.
I mean they do have thunderbolt, not to mention all they would need to do really is incorporate amd ryzen components. The new rdna3 gpu is pretty beefy for an igpu.
I've been watching Linus for several years now and the man is at least consistent: Everything that can go wrong in a simple upgrade WILL go wrong. But only because Linus touched it.
Only if Frameworks used all the same screws or just marked them with color. Silver for chassis, black for motherboard, red for screens. Then just print a circle of the same color around the screw holes. Do it in the repair menu as well. I love color coded screws and parts, not idiot-proof but if you can always remedy your mistake if you happen to mess up the screws
ngl i think it would be awesome if framework made it possible to return the parts u replace like the back panel or the motherboard and they give you some money back compared to its state so they can reduce electronics pollution and also recycle the good parts on the motherboard if not the whole thing
I was thinking that, but maybe for a few generations away, so someone who can't afford the latest motherboard swap can go to frameworks "used" section and upgrade their old framework motherboard, to the series thats one better. Paying users a bit of money is also a good idea, because even people who are more concious about these things need an incentive to go out of their way to post it back to them. Then framework can sell it and still make a little bit of profit themselves i.e they buy back your board for $300 and sell it to someone else for $400
Unfortunately the emissions of shipping your parts back would likely nullify the gains you'd get from doing this. The less time things spend on a plane, truck, or boat - the better. We would also have to make sure Framework is actually processing returned parts rather than throwing them out, which is unfortunately a common practice with many types of recycling.
@@Thalestr has a point about emissions from shipping parts back and forth... but there could be a good used market for these components through eBay or whatever.
Linus. As an investor, could you recommend that they “buy back” old parts? This would be more ecological than users destroying / throwing away their old parts. This would also help with the economical costs.
@@0xbenedikt well, having an official outlet to sell the parts back would allow Framework to easier sell refurbished equipment. It would also be useful for a lot of customers who don't like dealing with used items.
too much logistics work for a part you dont even know works, its very hard to keep tabs and have an entire branch dedicated to sorting and refurbishing them, so direct user to user selling would be better
I respect the fact that Linus is willing to be honest- even when it makes him lose money. That is a great way to build trust with not only your viewers, but potential customers.
A buyback scheme would be perfect for these types of motherboard upgrades. Framework gets to sell a motherboard multiple times, and consumers get a small discount.
I'm reminded of the time I was a System Engineer for GRiD Systems. They were tough laptops, and one of the SEs that I worked with (I wasn't with him at the time, and it happened right in front of one of our largest customers) gave a nice demonstration of it by actually dropping his laptop down the stairs, and it was completely fine. Now, this was NOT deliberate, and he was lucky. Because normally, on these magnesium alloy shells, the hinges were the first thing to bust, even without dropping them. I think all of us, including the salespeople, always had a couple of spare hinges in our briefcases just in case we needed one or both, for either our systems or a customer's system. All you needed was a Philip's head screw driver to remove and replace them. Ahh, the good times that were the end of the '80s!
Ok, that idea diary that Linus kind of teased framework for giving him looks like an MD paper notebook made by Midori. It's a super high quality personal notebook, and I love that framework is supporting another amazing high quality brand. Even if that brand is just paper notebooks
As a laptop repair technician, I really enjoy seeing laptops become easier to repair/replace parts for the common man. While I may consider laptops easy to work in now that I've been in the field for a bit, I understand that it's very daunting for someone to just jump into it head first, so seeing a company do something like this really puts a smile on my face
Same thought here, and also a laptop repair tech :) Some of the laptop-tablet designs have absolutely terrible layered designs. One particular model # I'm thinking off requires you to remove every single internal component to replace the top lid, because the hinge screws and WiFi cables are UNDERNEATH the motherboard and aux board and the keyboard assembly is all one part with a curved metal edge that overlaps the heatsink. And don't even get me started on manufacturers using all sorts of different sized screws. If Framework is going to continue along this line of progress and can make it cost-effective, don't be surprised if big-box/online retailers start carrying their Framework products. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
@@XSFx5 i have a box full of about 30 macbooks that need to go out to apple for rma, i manage and maintain a fleet of ~450 macbooks and it is not fun when repairs need to be made, luckily apple is starting to get a little nicer and we are starting to get replacement parts instead of rma only
@@XSFx5 that laptop design you mentioned sounds absolutely horrendous, im so sorry if you have to deal with that often. I work for a large tech company and really only repair their laptops, and to be truthful they are pretty good on being consistent with most screws being the same size, but from all the other laptops ive worked on before i know that it is definitely a problem. I really do hope that framework becomes successful enough to be a in-store option
I still love my framework laptop, I’m so glad to keep hearing and seeing good things from them. My biggest fear, and why I hesitated so long to buy one, is that they would crumble as a company before I would need any replacement parts. Still haven’t needed any replacement parts nor felt the need to upgrade, but I’m confident when that time comes, I will be able to do so from a stable company. Very pleased.
Year it is important for them to keep up but they have to work on better displays QHD is not enough in the longer term and bettery life is not so good as it should be.
@@justusmzb7441 Yeah, this can be dead in a few years but fairphone survived and framework as a similar chance. The market seems even better suited then for smartphones. They only have to keep up to date components and design, while keeping costs low.
They really should have AMD versions, and well the only way it can succeed is equivalent pricing and QC in all parts. ($925 for a functional non DGPU laptop is just crazy for most people. A AMD 6000 series with a RX680M IGPU will be better than a intel Xe, if it has to be that way.)
@@jooplin That’s not going to happen anytime soon, the best we’ll get for the time being is USB4 in Zen 4. And it’s not necessary anyway, some AMD motherboards support Thunderbolt 3 already even though the CPU doesn’t; the board manufacturer (in this case Framework) can implement it themselves. This is more about the two companies simply not reaching a deal, not any technical limitations.
Performance on a productivity machine is not important to most people. What does matter are things like build quality, trackpad, keyboard, and battery life. And $1k for a reasonably thin and light laptop built well is absolutely normal.
I love this concept so much that I want to buy a mainboard and epu setup simply to restore my full desktop. I don't need a new laptop anytime soon since I barely use one outside of work.
This is the tipping point for me to get a Framework. I *loved* the idea - but when it was just 'replacement' parts, felt like the idea had potential, but that was all. Now they've managed to hang in there for a generation and actually show a mobo upgrade, I'm won over.
The only thing that stopped me from buying a framework laptop when I had to replace my laptop last is the absence of a descrete gpu. I love what this company is doing, I hope they have an option like that in the future.
Perhaps something they can put their investors money into although it might simply just not be worth it due the companies relatively small size/sales numbers. There used to be MXM for 'easily' swappable GPUs in laptops but even that had never been a good way to upgrade GPUs (even just a replacement part (not an upgrade) it was nearly as expensive as the laptop it is supposed to go into). Not to mention the big OEMs often didn't quite follow the standard making the parts incompatible with the standard. Smaller OEMs were being a pain with whitelisting only certain GPUs as well. There were (and are) of course thermal issues to consider as well, a RTX 3050 and 3080 have quite different power and thermal needs. The best way to do it is probably making a brick of a laptop so that even if you buy a model with a weak GPU you'd still have a massive cooler. Then making daughter boards internally connected over thunderbolt, perhaps with a hardware switch to have thunderbolt available on a regular port at the cost of disabling it internally. Either that or try to get in on the ecosystem of one of the big OEMs (Dell, MSI, Lenovo) that still have a sort of MXM in their own laptops. I don't know why what the benefit to support a protentional competitor to them would be so I doubt that would happen. At best they could get a lil bit of positive advertising out of it.
He covered that though. External GPU enclosure. Depends on your use-case, of course, but I don't really get my game on unless I'm at home at my desk. Also lets you keep your laptop and GPU upgrades separate which just makes fiscal sense.
@@SoloLegends That's what's great about eGPUs, you don't need an external monitor to play games. You may have to select the egpu or configure certain games, but I think most will just work normally on the laptop screen as long as it's plugged in and recognized. (I've heard there's slight performance hit compared to external screen, but I think it's pretty minor)
I like the form factor of the desktop case, it looks like it would fit perfectly on a VESA mount behind the monitor. I've never been interested in the iMac form factor out of concerns over repairability and upgradability, plus I love 21:9 ultra-wide monitors.
@@PeterAuto1 If they didn't, it's 3D printed anyways. If you own a 3D printer you can modify the design, otherwise, just use a service that will print it for you.
If ever I buy a laptop again, I'd go for Framework just as a support for their approach in technology. I just wish it'll become more available/accessible in my country though.
I think every sff enthusiast just ascended when Linus got to the “mini pc from the old motherboard” part Can’t wait to actually make super tiny mobile desktops with this stuff
@@johndododoe1411 Metal casings and all would be an improvement for future development. But I really dont know any current laptop MB that was converted into a small form factor desktop until I watched this today. Wonderful development for diy.
This is revolutionary given how much anti-repair sentiment is there among the manufacturers. Teething problems are expected of a start-up but it has immense possibilities of growth.
Man I can't wait for AMD variants of this laptop. I am very excited for the future of framework. I also hope they make a model in the future with dedicated graphics options, because at that point it will be the best laptop possible to buy and basically the first time you can swap your GPU in a laptop and upgrade it. Great video as always. Keep up the great work guys 😁
Disagree on having dedicated GPU. Integrated graphics have been improving a lot lately. I don't think dedicated GPUs are here to stay, so it would probably be a bad investment long term.
@@larsolav They definitely are here to stay for gaming, video editing, animation/3d-authoring, CAD and so on. But there's just no good way to use the existing design with a discrete GPU, the laptop already has battery life issues, and, frankly, there's a massive market of people who just don't care about those use cases, at least not on a ultraportable laptop. Those who do tend to be in the Apple cult anyway and don't see how a normal person ought ever be able to repair a thing they own, or really own a thing they bought. Deprogramming them is not a good way to make money for a young company.
@@paulie-g I just wanted to agree with you here. Designated GPUs will Never die out as far as I can see in the future. Because of branches like gaming and rendering. In the use cases of just office stuff most internal GPUs can already handle all that.
If they make a 15 inch or bigger laptop of any kind, I am so in for a purchase. I just need a bigger screen for what I use my laptop for and what I prefer. That said, I love what Linus and Framework are doing for easily repairable electronics and am glad there is a good option for 13-14 inch users.
Problem with that is, they would need a new chassis design for it, which would be able to properly house all the stand-size components. So, i doubt that is in the focus of their agenda currently, as they seem to be working on better modularity and compatibility, and fixing any design issues. All these would atleast take another year or two (depending on available investments and speed of W.I.P stuff), assuming they are able to survive until then.
@@Sup_D I never implied they should invest in a new chassis for this purpose anytime soon. I'm just expressing what I would need to buy one their products sometime in the future, whenever said future is.
It needs to go down in price for me. Labtops are portable internet browsers and excel spreadsheets to me and not much more. I don't need a top of the line processor and gpu to do basic web browsing and excel spreadsheets on the go. I have a desktop at home for anything that requires a bit of power. I enjoy their focus on user repairable stuff but when it economically makes 0 sense to me why would I spend 1000 dollars on a labtop? I can get by with budget labtops for 4 to 500 that last 5 or so years. Sure long term they're cheaper but that doesn't help if you don't have the 1000 dollars to drop on one today. If they had any sort of budget option I'd go for it.
Very very cool to see the old mobo literally turn into a mini PC. That is such a cool use that is endorsed by the company. Honestly if this were more matured I would have been able to convince my org to replace our fleet of machines with these. Being able to swap components is awesome and old hardware could get recycled. It's so great
The moment Framework offers a option for a Touchscreen (that supports pen input) and a a display hinge like in other 2-in1's is the moment that I'll buy one immediately. Artists had to bend over and take it when it comes to 2-in-1 laptops for creative works for years now.
Someone uses those for art? I'm not an artist, but when I tried it I found the latency (lag) and lack of precision infuriating. I would use a drawing tablet before I ever tried a pen on a touchscreen again. Plus most artists insist on an Apple logo on everything they use, so not the prime market niche for a start-up.
@@paulie-g It always depends on the manufacturer. There are Drawing Monitors like from Wacom or XP-Pen that are really good but they are only for Desktops. In the 2-in-1 space there are mostly only the usual players like Lenovo and so on with decent to meh pen support and we just had to take it.
@@SomeKittyCat Yeah, I've seen the XP-Pen ones and been tempted to try one. I expect they work reasonably well. Reducing lag beyond what's needed for note-taking costs too much for general purpose laptops. That's why there are dedicated product lines for this particular use case. If you've used XP-Pen drawing tablets or pads, I'd be interested in hearing about your experience.
I am really excited to hear this about Framework over a year, especially considering where the market has gone lately. I have no use for a new laptop, but Framework is on my radar for exactly the reasons you demonstrated here. I am excited for their future. One thing I would like to see from them is a touch screen option, a 2 in 1 chassis, and more first party cards, especially a full size SD card slot and dual USB C. I think the expansion cards are a key selling point to get into Framework, and I am a little disappointed that the selection of first party cards is the same as it was a year ago.
They’re well out of my price reach, but I really support their whole ethos with this and also appreciate you doing an update - I thought it had gone a bit quiet!
This is a really nice concept. Love it. Especially that you are still able to use the older motherboard as a secondary mini Desktop. And the 3D printing aspect gives users the power to design their own case, if they want. So they even can level up the new life cycle of older hardware with their design wishes.
Framework is proabably one of the best company we have in terms of morals. They put a heavy emphasis on linux, they allow for upgradability, and the laptops themselves are super powerful. What more could we ask for?
I would love to see AMD make a custom SoC for Framework laptops. It could be on par with the Steam Deck, which would demolish the thin and light market.
"There's no double usb-c" It was actually investigated by somefolks and it would be extremely hard to fit due to the very limited space constraint of expansion modules. Having two next to one another is not only tight, but leaves no room for the controller behind.
The other reason is that it forces them to be USB ports. Currently the type C port is Thunderbolt, among the other usuals for type C. If you have two ports in one slot, the motherboard (whichever part it is that controls ports, probably the CPU) can’t do anything with them other than USB.
As a suggestion: Providing that case schematic makes the motherboard itself a competitor to devboards like the rasp pi and jetson nano - definitely market that more!
Fair Play to Framework for going into right direction, their laptop in a way is like miniature desktop pc, where you can upgrade nearly every component. Motherboard, ram, drives, and it is even better as you can choose and swap to your heart desires all the I/O connections and ports. And absolutely love the idea of reusing old mobo as mini desktop pc.
I really hope this company will make a two in one design with active pen support. I really depend on those kinds of laptops designs. I personally like the designs that have a single hinge that swivels so you don't even need to pick up the laptop to make it into a tablet or to show the screen to some else
You should encourage framework to make a “creator” version or a expanded color gamut display model. I have a 5yr old dell xps. Display is great, just needs a new processor to chug less while editing photos. If they can do it, (preference 15”) they’ll be my next computer.
@@Sup_D that’s a great idea! I saw something on the forums that maybe they would need to change the connector on the motherboard to work with LG panels, but there’s got to be a way to make it work 🤔
@@Sup_D Framework doesn't make their own panels, they buy off-the-shelf from long-established display companies, IIRC either BOE or Innolux. Regarding the connector, it would be a standard 30-pin or 40-pin eDP connector, depending on whether or not the panel has touch or not.
@@recurveninja Yeah, in the older non "thin and light" panels they often added adaptors in the panel electronics behind the panel it's self. My current laptop may even have one, as the replacement screen I got for it was a slightly different batch to the original. However, they may not be enough room in a thin and light to fit the electronics/PCB in there?
Modular laptops will never catch on as a sustainable niche product, let alone a mainstream product. But it’s cool. The secondary uses that modularity affords the parts is pretty cool
It would awesome if you could send in old parts into a recycle program run by Framework themselves. Build trust and continue to lead in repair pledge from end to end. I'm also still hoping for an AMD variant upgrade path at some point.
This is a great idea and one I was expecting to be mentioned in the video. Framework, like any other company, refurbishes motherboards for warranty reasons. That could allow uses to return no longer needed boards for a reasonable buyback price, and this would reduce their own repair efforts, and costs to make more boards to replenish consumed warranty stock.
@@friendly0 as someone who works in education IT, having 11th gen Framework laptops/desktops available in say 4 years could be a perfect ecosystem to buy into. Broken ports and hinges are often the death-knell for our laptops. We're currently buying 4th to 6th gen i3/5 laptops as "new" stock to give you some idea of our needs, and still have the majority being 2nd/3rd gen.
I'd love to have seen the comparison between the last motherboard and the new motherboard on a performance benchmark. You swapped motherboards and CPUs to a better model, but do the thermals hold up?
Considering that the cooler itself was included with the mainboard replacement, it would make sense that it has enough cooling capacity to keep up with the 12th gen cpu's. That being said, it's still not a given.
Thanks for the update, Linus! If Frameworks expands into Australia in the next 12 months, they'll be a no-brainer choice for my next personal laptop. Currently rocking a Surface Laptop 3 and only being able to upgrade the SSD has made me crave something more modular and repairable.
Glad to hear that framework is building a stable foundation by continuing to support, troubleshoot and upgrade their first laptop. Hope their partnership with AMD soon:tm: is going to get their foot in the door for gpu access since Intel is dragging their feet with alchemist
I'm really into the whole framework ideology and would like to someday get on of their laptops but the first thing I would need is a larger screen. The work I would be using it for is a lot easier if I have a larger (17") screen. The problem I've always had is that the major brand keep equating larger screen with larger processor and that jack the price up even higher. That makes too much of a dent in my limited budget. A Ryzen 3 4300u is way more than what I need.
Same with RAM, I’d love 16GB without paying for a 4K screen or top tier i7. Also 2-in-1, that’s unfortunately an essential feature. I’ll limp my current laptop along as long as I can, but when the day comes I NEED a new laptop, I hope framework has what a need.
I'm personally hoping they do the larger screen too but on top of that a larger chassis that allows more space to have a mobile GPU would be frickin AMAZING cause while I don't do a lot of gaming on my laptop I do play some heavier games sometimes that require at least a decent GPU I also tend to use my laptop for some light upscaling (which does use mostly CPU but you can use the GPU to speed up the process a fair bit) so having a GPU for me is kind of a must.
I've been supporting this company from the get go. In fact, I'm using my Framework laptop right now! 😎🤘 I'm actually waiting on my new mobo and backplate to arrive, so I'm glad this video came out. Can't wait! 😁 Thanks for the video, Linus! 🙂
I just bought a Framework yesterday. The title of this video worried me it was a bad idea, but actually watching the video, I'm glad the answer was no. Of course, it's not going to be perfect out of the box, but I'm buying early in hopes that the kinks will be ironed out soon and I'll have a laptop that's good for years to come.
@@Batwam0 Lol, he makes soooo much more money from LTT company than from Framework; it just doesn't make sense to destroy his reputation for the odds to make 1 or 2 million from that investment.
@@eyluismi168 Come back to us when you have invested 250K USD in a company. You probably won't throw them under the bus unless they made you lose your investment.
Man I can imagine people upgrading their framework laptops and then turning the old motherboard into a PC for their friend or younger sibling to use. This is just such a good idea.
I think that the mini desktop could be a more powerful alternative for the raspberry pi. I really think framework motherboards will come to be very useful not just for framework laptops
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
I love how Linus made sure to protect his $220k investment in the company and showed the laptop repair/replace process in the best light possible, by... Not reading the instruction manuals and fumbling through the entire thing without even using a parts tray, thus making the entire process look a lot more painful than it actually probably is? 😂😂😂
Or he showed the hardest way to do it so we all know it will be easier if we fo
I think its also important to note that even if something is easy with instructions. Easy-Medium WITHOUT instructions, is imporant too. (Ignoring how much experience Linus has with putting PC parts together)
If you can easily do it without instructions, that goes a long way towards proving the easily modular design is effective
He made this as difficult as possible and still got it done, that's got to be worth something for how easy it is.
Yeah he made the whole process look more difficult than regular laptops.
Lolll Linus is a disaster. Should have let Anthony do it lollll 😂
The mini desktop option is neat, it really highlights the utility of the swappable modules
This could be a great future for thin clients. Killed the battery in my last laptop because it was mostly sitting connected to power during the pandemic due to having no place to go.
Arguably the swappable modules make much less sense for the desktop, because they're ultimately just USB-C devices, and while the module slotting into a laptop chassis has value in terms of form factor, there's not really any advantage to a module slotting into a desktop instead of just plugging in a dongle version.
I know, I want to get their laptop now so I can make a mini PC in the future. All kinds of great uses for one. Need to see if they sell in Canada though?
@@IDv8I ltt is canadian so i would be suprised if they didnt
@@KyurekiHana newer laptops shouldn't keep eletric current flowing through the battery when the battery is full and you're plugged in. older ones who couldn't achieve this usually would let you remove the battery
“You can make it repairable but you can’t make it idiot proof” Such a good line
Too bad 90% of laptop owners are idiots, then. Kinda defeats the purpose of this whole thing. Most people will never upgrade or repair their framework laptop.
Yep that needs putting on the t-shirt
@Hermann[best channel] what the actual heII
you cant mike Linus proof more like
@@asadava report and move on, my friend
19:18
Not to mention, if you didn’t have a use for your old one, you could sell your old main board to someone who needs a repair but not an upgrade, recouping some of your upgrade costs, saving that person more money and reducing waste.
In the future, the second market will be really awesome especially for those who are low in cash but want faster cpu
Exactly, I really hope they do well and that more companies get on board to partner
Framework could even implement a future discount if you sold your old boards or components back to them, and they could sell those at a discount for more ease of access and less waste. People wouldn't have to mess with ebay or craigslist, it would be great for a more rural market where you maybe couldn't unload your older parts easily.
The Giga Brain:
if Framework don't already have a marketplace like this, they should definitely make one. Having a first party aftermarket would be a huge selling point
Really love what Framework is doing here! Its such an important step towards a world where anti-consumer practices are hopefully less common assuming Framework can make it big.
No you don't.
@@Q-nt-Tf Who swapped your sugar out for fentanyl this morning?
@@Q-nt-Tf pov: apple
The real money is in business machines, they’re like 2-3x the price of standard high-end consumer laptops for tiny differences like “pro cpus” and these guys will never break that market.
@@jay-5061 typically the business grade machines will have higher quality parts as well as quadro gpus which in general are more expensive. You are paying for the reliability mainly though.
We all love Linus’s style of doing stuff on his own but a part of these videos really should be analyzing the documentation that these companies provide for these repairs and mods that you do. Bad documentation vs good documentation can make a really big difference between a friendly user experience and a frustrating user experience. Hope you guys consider this for future videos
Yes, I was annoyed about that in this video when usually I don't care about it
i'd agree if it wasn't just "built it the way you disassembled it backwards"
I feel like in the last year or so Linus has gotten a bit bad about going more in depth with these kinds of things, probably because he is waiting for LMG Labs so that he can have more confidence in what he says.
this
That's a really good point.
The fact that they made a hinge upgrade to fix design flaws is nuts. It really reassures you that they will support the machine years into the future.
It's good, but having replaceable parts is pointless if they shouldn't need to be replaced in the first place. You might as well have just bought a laptop from an established brand that has better quality assurance. If the replacement parts are covered by a warranty though, then ignore me.
@@SuperSucc69 even established brand like HP have issue with the hinge and crazy thing is they don’t have any support to fix it.
@@SuperSucc69 the soldered cpu gets me
like in a bad way
@@lilsquidgaming39 thanks for clearing that up, we didnt understand what you meant before you specifically told us it was in a bad way.
The old motherboard would make an extremely good home server, a specifically designed NAS case would make it perfect.
or compact htpc
@@da_pawz Or both) using Proxmox and 3d printed nas/htpc case. We just need to add hdd cases at the bottom of existing case)
@@dibu28 of course. Nowadays, 3D printing is an easy task. There's room to do it.
For nas it is a bit too powerful and less cost effective depend on your use case.
@@clouddcloud Agree, and there is the problem the PI has for being a NAS as well, no place to attach NAS drives.
Framework: "Thanks for backing us! We are making sure to create detailed document---"
Linus: "WHY IS IT BLINKING?!"
Framework: 😭
🤣🤣🤣
With miniaturized components and a recycling mindset, I'd love a crossover with DIY perks even though he's across the ocean. Would be glorious if it could happen, I mean the guy made a PS5 slim and the best invisible PC/integrated desk PC I've ever seen.
A crossover between LTT and DIY Perks is something I've been wanting for years now. It would be awesome!
honsetly, I like DIY perks, but if you actually pause and look closely at the things he makes, they are usually pretty atrocious.
@@isaackvasager9957 it surely is a very specific sort of jank.
@@isaackvasager9957 some oz his stuff is of questionable design, but I liked the design of his PS5 slim and his dual Bluetooth speakers.
@@isaackvasager9957 explain
I love how most of the pain in upgrading his laptop comes from him not reading the manual and not being organized, lol
That's the Linus we love
Yesss!
The cringe was insane with this one with how much he was messing up
I don't mind him being a goofball but do have an issue with him criticizing Framework on the complexity when he's not following the provided guide.
@@darindelegal1102 Yeah it's pretty bad there lmao
@@TheJtorres182 Can only agree
honestly linus personally investing in framework is one of my favorite moves he's made because nothing makes me trust and enjoy this channel more than seeing that the guy i'm coming here for directly supports and is willing to throw his wallet behind the technological future that I want to see.
He did get burnt a couple of times before
@@DogeMultiverse example? I’m just curious
That mini-PC print-out thingy is actually the coolest thing I've ever seen for these kind of parts. Would be very easy to resell them later down the line as office PCs.
Yes, so very much that. Could have that as an HTPC attached to the back of a TV so easily. Would kick the snot out of a RPi as well.
Seriously!! I want one of those. It just looks like a router and I absolutely LOVE it. Would also love to see it run off battery power too just because why not.
Yep, I currently have 4 laptops that dont have software problems but the keyboard/screen/hinges are broken
I'm interested in that, but also with the laptop battery to use as a car-pc to retrofit modern electronics and features into my old Lincoln....I'm also hoping the prices will come down eventually.
That little 3D printed chassis gave me so many ideas, I think using the spare parts as a desktop PC is only scratching the surface of the possibilities of that little machine. Add the battery in and the possibilities only multiply.
I'm all for this framework laptop. However for the average user once they replace a part (say what Linus did there to replace a motherboard) they wouldn't know what to do with it. Why not have an option on their website that says if u want to send the old part back to us and knock off some price of the new purchased board. They'd be able to repurpose the old part and sell it again no?
Yeah I’d love that as well. Likely needs new procedures and employees though to take back motherboard, verify no damage, verify all ports still work so they can give it a grade and slap on a warranty.
what should they do with the board? sell it again? fairphone just has a marketplace where people sell their parts to eachother, its kinda works and i think its a more realistic solution to that problem. i think framework is a bit too tech heavy for the average user. fairphone really has that part down, but they lack in other regards where framework does much better. but then again, maintaining android over a wide range of configurations is nearly impossible, not so much with linux or windows which come from a legacy mentality.
I agree. That’s what auto repair shops do, they give you some money back when you bring in the part you’re replacing.
@@tjeulink actually that super cool. Selling parts to each other is such a good thing especially who doesn't want latest and greatest every year. For eg I will be happy to buy 11th gen motherboard for ~60-65% of the original price from someone who doesn't need it anymore
@@rapiddu6482 You know what buying used means right? We been doing this since the start. I'm personally a 4-5 gen behind kinda guy. Lol, sorry, was just funny how you were so focused on the context you didn't realize it was just a contrivance of something completely normal.
I've had my Framework laptop since near the beginning of February and am so far really happy with it. It was super simple to assemble, it's pretty powerful, it has reasonable (but not outstanding) battery life. I've not really made use of the ability to swap out the modules, so far I've been happy with a USB-C and a USB-A on each side, I have an HDMI module sitting on my desk but haven't used it. I'm not someone who needs to sit on the bleeding edge of computing hardware, so I won't be getting this motherboard upgrade, but I'm really happy that it's likely that I WILL be able to upgrade when the time comes.
" that I WILL be able to upgrade when the time comes."
This absolutely. The main regret over buying a laptop is that you're stuck with it forever, and eventually its components will be too outdated to keep up with new hardware, having no way to upgrade.
Framework is an absolute game changer, the fact that you can turn the older components into a spare PC is mind blowing!
@@whitehavencpu6813 you know that when you buy a new laptop you are not obligated to drop the old one in the bin, you can still use it as a home pc. Also, you will still need more just the motherborad to be able to use your old hardware, ram and storage also required, but at that point you are basically buying a new mini pc, that is already outdated. Being able to upgrade is nice i agree, but in reality, the price is what drives consumers and convenience, this one does not provide both.
@@АнтонК-х1ж I meant that if the old laptop stopped working, you can't just strip it down and turn the working components into a pc, very rarely is that possible due to various integration issues, but with frame-work and how modular all their parts are its possible to simply convert the old hardware into a different machine.
Sounds more like buyers remorse and trying to justify your bad decisions.
@@sqlevolicious how do you get 'remorse' from my description of being happy with my laptop?
This video tripled my confidence in Framework. I love that Linus takes such a pragmatic, level-headed approach to reviewing their products honestly -- it honestly makes me *more* likely to buy them because I feel like there's zero chance of getting something I wasn't expecting. With framework, I know what I'm buying and I know the company's values are aligned with mine. Awesome company and awesome video. I hope framework sees many years of success to come.
I know nothing about framework, but let's hope they never become publicly traded unless they already are. That always takes companies away from their morals and makes them care about nothing but profit, cost cutting, taking advantage of customers, etc. I'll keep an eye on framework for the next time I need a laptop, 4-5 years from now
Ah lol, I first read, "crippled" your confidence. 😁
Poorly designed hinges, which other laptop companies figured out how to make back in 2004. What else did they goof up? Linus' laptop came without Ethernet, which is included on today's laptops. If you are going to design something, get people in there that know laptops.
I'm waiting till Framework offers AMD CPU's and it's rumoured that they will eventually offer this in the coming years.
@@lesliesavage9229 very few laptops come w an ethernet port today bud. Hinges def should have never been a problem
This modular repairable design idea is really up my alley. I really hope this becomes a more competitive market in the future for all types of electronics, not just laptops.
There's a reason Linus never "got around" to doing the "spilled coke" video. Because it's actually not that easy or cost-effective. lmao
The mass consumer would not pay extra for that. Most people do not want to mess up with their laptops
it is my hope they'll eventually work out swappable GPUs and a CPUs. Admittedly CPUs is easy, since that is "put middleman PCB on and put a socket on the board" while GPUs are a bit more difficult because that will require some kind of daughter board and a good data and power link
@@InfernosReaper They don't even need to do a seperate PCB and socket for the CPU. I have a Dell Latitude from 2011 which is completely user serviceable. The CPU is an i5-2540m on socket G2, and is incredibly easy to remove. It's definitely possible to design laptop CPUs to be user-removable (LGA/PGA instead if BGA). The GPU would still be difficult.
@@ajhauter5049 at some point AMD & Intel decided to not do their laptop CPUs to where they could be in a socket and swappable. Most manufacturers just build within that limitation.
Thus, unless you want to try to run desktop CPUs in a laptop, you're gonna have to do some kind of addon(s) to the CPU to make it work right in a socket... or design a special socket and heatsink setup to accommodate laptop CPUs.
*Maybe* if enough orders are made AMD and/or Intel would comply, but that's a huge maybe.
"Geographic Expansion" - YES!
also, I get that they may be doing what looks like baby steps, but every risk they take must be measured, one step on the wrong direction may be the end for the company, while the giants have plenty of cash to spare in case of a big mistake.
Not to mention when you take on giants, you're liable to get stomped out if you pose any real threat to them. Today's consumers don't even know what rights they don't have, and Framework is trying to tell them they deserve more. The industry has kept their user base in the freezer for a long time and they're not going to like some small business trying to thaw them out.
...yes, that was a crappy chilling effect metaphor.
@@flubnub266 Or, these companies are taking advantage of the outrage and creating fake cheapo garbage to scam people too stupid to realize that the big competitors have successful products because they have the money, time, engineering and resources to make it. While a tiny company of investor scammers do not.
You are being led like sheep into opportunist's hands, like Linus has.
@John Smith If the company has to close down, future entrepreneurs might interpret it as a cautionary tale and think the business model doesn't work, which would be bad. You're right that the idea wouldn't die, but I certainly think think would turn out better if Framework succeeds.
@John Smith Amen, there is one company doing something similar on the phone side if I am not mistaken, I just can´t remember the name now, but what I meant is that the progress may be slower at the start because the giants may know and fear what is to come, so they can try to take a swing on one miss step or something.
may I can´t wait for framework to become mainstream so it gets to my country.
I wonder if they are looking for partners on other countries
I’ve been an owner of one of these since batch 4 and 5, and I’ve loved pretty much everything about it besides what was mentioned in the video. I’ve already used their ability to upgrade and swap parts around about 3-4 times for personal preference, nothing that the laptop caused, and it been insanely easy. Seriously, I’m taking this to school doing game dev, and with an external monitor along with this and my tower, I’m not worried a bit. Please, if you’re watching this and considering buying it, go for it. It’s so much easier to deal with than anything else out there.
The fact that they've engaged with Louis Rossman in good faith discussions about schematics is a very good sign to me. There are only a handful of companies that are this open with system 76 being the only other that comes to mind.
Speaking of System76, I hope there will be some collaborative effort between them and Framework someday -- imagine the Framework laptop, but with officially supported and pre-installed Coreboot and Pop!_OS. Imagine the Framework mainboard inside a desktop case, with the transparency and quality of design of a System76 Thelio!
I'm not even a laptop user myself, but I'm absolutely rooting for Framework and have told people about them. If all the sudden I needed a laptop, I'd absolutely consider them first. So I have brand loyalty with a company I have no personal experience with - and it's purely because of how they respect the end users and the environment. It's always so refreshing hearing about Framework and their progress as opposed to companies such as Apple, who are not only hostile towards Android and PC users but they even resent their own users and treat them like garbage. Hopefully Framework and other right to repair companies like them are the future of consumer electronics because as the chip shortage made clear, the current way we treat everything as disposable is completely unsustainable.
Same boat. I am not a laptop user (at home) but I am rooting for them and I'd buy one if I needed a laptop. I've also recommended them to others before as well.
As an Apple user, I can confirm that I discover I’m an M after using Apple
@@AlexanderMikhailov629 Sorry, but what is "an M"?
@@jojobobbubble5688 It might be not an accurate term to describe it but it means a masochist, I realize that for some reason I let Apple do their nonsense despite knowing it’s just Apple being the usual asshole company to their customer.
As a student looking for a new laptop for university next year, I love the way the framework laptop works. Everything is so easily swappable and user accessible. With a laptop being my only computer, having so much granularity and control over my device is comforting and adds a huge piece of mind. The ability to also repurpose old motherboards is such a neat concept and I can easily see myself upgrading and setting aside a motherboard as a media server or a mc server host.
Lots of great stuff from framework, I hope they continue pushing right to repair because this looks super good so far :)
Bought one for a younger relative student, 6 months so far, very happy. He is a non-tech guy, by the way.
Battery life is too short (4,5 h) for my taste. But his course work is light, and a mix of offline/online, living very close to university, so he never runs into problems with the battery.
Trackpad is a bit loose for my taste. Yet it works so far well for him and is - if it goes bad - user replaceable.
He liked hard switches for camera and microphone a lot, plus the fingerprint reader. The screen is bright, so reflection is less of a problem.
I'd say avoid these. As a student, you need to save money and these laptops are terrible value
@@tralala8980 Battery life is something I'd have to watch, but hopefully in the next few months the drain issue can be resolved
I'm currently using a 6 year old thinkpad so minor imperfections aren't going to be a bother
@@theslavicimmigrant4795 This is definitely not a value machine, I am looking at getting a new thinkpad or even an asus G14 as the price to performance ratio is quite a bit better (more on the asus than thinkpad side).
If I could spend the money I would, but I'd definitely have to wait and see.
@@pixxel17 Waiting and observing is a productive attitude in this context.
Watching this made me realize how important on-board assembly diagnostics are for a user-serviceable device. Being able to quickly identify missing screws/components would go a long way towards ensuring that all users (regardless of their organizational skills) can complete repairs/replacements.
For screws, electronic detection will turn into a nightmare of anti-repair features. Clearly labeling screw positions and limiting the total types needed will do a lot more. "Oh. Where does this extra 7mm long screw go?, looks around and finds an empty hole marked 7x3 in the hinge."
@@johndododoe1411 additionally, they could limit the number of screws by making one side slide into a slot, and then the other side is the only side that needs a screw. (Like an M.2 slot on a motherboard, it's held down on both sides, but only uses 1 screw)
@@shipwreck9146 Screws provide a firmer clamping than a ledge. M.2 mounts use a connection and a screw because the connection is needed anyway.
I strongly support reducing the number of necessary fasteners with good engineering and bright markings for screw locations (which are covered when a screw is inserted).
I also support electronic detection systems (when appropriate), but on-board systems can be as complex as a full bios level readout or as simple as a labeled storage compartment included in the device housing.
I think we agree on the principle that if Linus missed a screw in reassembly, this should be looked at a bit more on the design/engineering side.
@@johndododoe1411 Coloured screws is the way to go. GREEN SCREW GO IN GREEN HOLE is as idiot proof as it gets.
I've been trying to be better about e-waste (and $-waste) so I'm planning ride my current laptop as long as I can, but whenever it does finally die I'm absolutely going for one of these. This kind of modularity and real hardware ownership of a laptop is something the world has needed for so long.
What’s your current laptop?
@@lateral1385 Lenovo E5440
I've really enjoyed my Framework laptop I got a year ago (after trusting your stake in them) and its been great. I run Pop_OS! and have had no problems. I'm holding out on upgrades for a ryzen model but the ability to use the motherboard outside of the shell is so exciting
I'm now considering the Framework for having a futureproof laptop. Swapping the I/O rig seemed cool in the beginning, but not very useful in the sense of 'upgrading' things, it felt like it'd be useful for just changing your loadout or repairing something.
Swapping the motherboard for a new gen CPU, swapping chassis for more sturdiness, now that is extremely cool and makes a huge difference
I would pick a framework myself as someone who is pretty tech-savyy. However, I still went with the Macbook Pro. No upgradability, repairability, but incredible inclusion, interaction between devices and battery life, which is crucial for me as a student. In the end, what you purchase depends solely on what you are going to use it for. The company policies might be wrong, and in these times, Framework might be something that will grow and lead the way for other companies in the future, which is what I hope for, regardless if it's too optimistic or not.
@@botagasss MacBooks are far and away the best laptops for all around use. Even our once apple hating coders all switched to MacBooks. Now desktops? Windows all day everyday
@@RealNathanExplosion "Even our once apple hating coders all switched to MacBooks" Idk what universe you came from, but in ours coders have always been hypocritical regarding apple.
Just be aware they have terrible battery life, around 5 hours is what you’ll commonly see quoted by owners.
@@xenn4985 Nice that all coders in your universe are the same.
I can't even count the amount of times that I've handled a laptop and said "I'd buy this if only they didn't fuck up this one feature" being able to retroactively swap simple parts (and even in the future had a catalogue of parts for one component) Really could feasibly make this the last laptop you need to buy.
Except that their screens are shiny, low refresh rate, there aren't full size arrow keys or a TB4 module. Oh and the screen is too small for my use case. If they made options for all of these things I'd probably get one. But just a few swappable modules that I could just use an adapter for really isn't all that appealing to me.
@@allanshpeley4284 They are a small company, they simply cannot do everything at once. In the future, I believe they will fix the problems you are talking about.
@@allanshpeley4284 maybe you should shell out 2k for new laptop and throw the old one in a landfill :)
Already a step ahead of you
@@eliaskruse4187 Hope so
If / When they finally have a ryzen and discrete GPU option i will get one. Love the idea and principals behind it.
Vote for ryzen!
The motherboard won't fit the case.
@@lesliesavage9229 why so?
@@FilSerge There is no way to make a totally different designed board fit, when the board going in without the GPU on it barely fits as it is. Probably why they haven't done it already.
@@lesliesavage9229 it doesn't sound like a problem at all. Chips have comparable sizes.
Can’t wait for them to eventually have an AMD option. Hopefully with Zen 4!
IIRC because all of the modular connectors are USB-C, they *have* to wait for Zen4 in order to be able to supply ~~video out~~ (edit: sorry--eGPU support) as Zen3 doesn't support Thunderbolt 3 (Zen4 will support USB4).
I'll tell you what I would love but is almost certainly not technologically feasible--nom-embedded CPUs like on the ASRock DeskMini line.
My next laptop is going to be an AMD Framework and I can't wait.
@@GSBarlev Zen3 does support Thunderbolt3, but its up to the boardmakers to make it happen.. if it didnt we wouldnt have boards like.
Gigabyte TRX40 Designare
X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3
Also dont forget Asus ProArt B550-CREATOR which has Thunderbolt 4
@@GSBarlev There are laptop out with desktop CPUs (Namely Clevo's) but main issue is obviously their much higher power draw. It's more practical w/ 12th gen intel b/c of p and e cores but still not great. Framework would probably have to redesign their chassis for greater airflow and size due to that as well.
End of the day, it's probably more work for what it's worth.
RISC-V!
I really hope Framework survives. This really makes sense and seems to be pretty well executed as well.
having access to schematic and 1st party replacement parts is awesome. As a a marketing and growth strategy, I believe offering easy upgrades of motherboards will flood the used market with "older" but still extremely worthy hardware that will let newcomers join the framework boat at a lower price point. I think it would be optimal if they offered this "in-house" with the option for trade-ins when upgrading and the possibility of buying laptops with used hardware on their own website (even if delivered in a to-be-assembled format and no warranty whatsoever)
This is brilliant. I hope linus see your comment
Loving the progress that Framework is making, I really really hope they keep on moving forward and expanding their lineup. Hopefully they'll eventually make bigger versions and add GPU options at some point. It'd be especially cool if they could make a separate GPU board that you could upgrade independently of the main board.
Read my previous comment. I think it’s a great idea!
The only reason I didn’t purchase a framework was the lack of discrete GPU
They going to tell you: buy an e-gpu and use thunderbolt.
Amds igpus would be a good option to offer as they are much better than most of what intel offer as well as the benefits of better efficiency.
I'd be intrigued to see what they could do if AMD does actually partner with them. Something with AMD's Ryzen 9 6900HS? A collaboration with Valve to make a SteamOS compliant laptop? That would be legitimately intriguing.
This video really made me realize how frustrating it must be to plan videos only to have Linus make it complete chaos 😂
I've been building and repairing PCs since the 80s, had a store for over two decades repairing anything electronic, this is just how we do it.... I've sat on carpet, on a bed, in the back of a car, etc and did repair work on PCs and other electronics. No "screw holder" or "guides".... It's called remembering what you did and just reversing it. If that doesn't work count holes. If one part has 5 holes and another has 3 holes and you have 5 screws of the same size and 3 screws of the same size guess what??? It's mostly just basic common sense tbh. Something that doesn't seem to exist anymore...
I don't do it for a living anymore, mostly just my own stuff or if I get something cheap to fix up and sell. But you are right if you're doing it multiple times a day everyday it might be worth it. I never cared enough but I guess some people do that's why magnetic mats exist. But let's be serious here, Linus doesn't really do repairs multiple times a day. He just shows up to have fun with his money from time to time while all his paid friends do any actual work. ;)
Pomeranian energy man, it's something else.
@inc0der dev If I wanted to read a novel I'd buy a book, which is just silly. Nothing you typed will be read by me but good job wasting your time anyway. What I said was reality and truth, really don't care what you pretend to think. Good day.
@@Alcoholic_Nerd I pull out multiple sheets of paper and stick some tape on there in lines vaguely correlating to the screws on the device and stick each one on relatively close to where they came from. The multiple sheets are of course for layers and sides, because some laptops require you to flip things over to unscrew yet more. Take a pen and scrawl a quick note if I need more to organize them. Super easy, barely an inconvenience.
@@anon_y_mousse Sorry but not worth the time or effort, as I've said I have repaired thousands of PCs and other electronics for decades and never once needed any such nonsense... Just like he said when someone offered something to him... *shrug*
I was actually wondering about Thunderbolt support for Framework, but I’m glad it’s (unofficially) available.
It's the most underrated part of the motherboard. FOUR. Not one, not two, not three, but FOUR USB4 ports with TBolt support on Every. Single. Port. I can't think of a single other laptop that does that.
@@spdcrzy Not even the new Macbooks have 4. Now, granted, they have dedicated ports so overall you get a little more IO, but still.
@@johnbuscher yeah, AFAIK every single port has its own dedicated controller too, which is INSANE. That's where your hidden cost is going when people ask "BUT ITS SO EXPENSIVE"
@@johnbuscher The MacBook Pros have 4 Thunderbolt ports since 2016.
As someone that runs a small homelab, I LOVE the reusable motherboard into mini pc theme. I know you can do that already with any laptop but the motherboards are generally weird shapes etc. That makes it an accessible gateway into hobbyist homelab projects which is cool.
What is a homelab?
The option to repurpose the old motherboard to a mini pc instantly made me think of mounting it to the back of a TV with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Instant HTPC and it could stream games from your main PC easily.
That'd be pretty neat too. It reminds me, more darkly, of Syrians repurposing consoles to drone and tank guidance systems. I mean really if you stop thinking like a consoomer and start thinking like a tinkerer, it's like the difference between decadent today and shining glorious tomorrow.
Or just being cheap as an old world immigrant. "$1000! what do you mean $1000? $1000 with my sick mother, tell you what I'll pay you $20 for a used motherboard an an old display panel I'll fgure out the rest."
Just get a Steam link
@@MegaPremios why not reuse something that works the same or even better ??
Turn it to a AIO PC.
If this continues for few years, the second hand market for the motherboard will be also insanely great.
When the ethernet port actually comes out, two of those on the old motherboard would also make for a pretty good firewall with dedicated ingress and egress network ports.
or you can make any kind of home server with it
a firewall with some serious hosting capabilities.
you can host websites game servers and so on a cpu like this.
@@katech6020 Actually that would be really neat turning those motherboards into a blade system
While certainly a very reasonable use case, that's a rather overpowered (and expensive) firewall considering how little CPU a multi-gig internet pfsense/opnsense system needs, and how affordable retired data centre Intel X540-based dual 10G NICs can be bought for.
@@Postman00 Yes but if you were already planning on upgrading your motherboard then it makes sense to use what you already have to make something pretty cool.
This will be the only laptop where you can start with an Intel CPU one gen, then decide to swap out for an AMD one after, potentially. Imagine how crazy that is!
That is the reason I bought one when Linus first talked about them. I knew I was not forcing myself down a path I often swap between intel and AMD. I will probably upgrade it when a AMD option comes out, and use the old intel one as a media pc in the 3d printed enclosure like this, what will be cool about that is with all the modules I can make that work even better. I cant wait for the ethernet module. I may have spent 1600 for my first laptop, which for what I got was pricey. But next time ill probably spend 1000, and bring whole new life into my laptop, and be able to repurpose it.
@@DuxGalt how is the screen like?
Just works or above average?
I worry that putting better and better CPUs into the same chassis will eventually leave not enough room to fit A properly sized heat sink in.
Would have been nice to see the thermal curves for them compared.
@@nullvoid3545 well, technically speaking... going from intel 11th to a current gen AMD yea.... and its an ultra portable with no big emphasis on crazy graphics so pretty sure if just using integrated graphics potentially you will just get cooler laptops overall, with that 14 core one they put in??? hmmm
@@nullvoid3545 as long as cpu tdps stay the same as manufacturers go for power efficiency on mobile devices, thermals shouldn't be too different among different cpus. heatsinks have a max tdp rating and so as long as cpus stay under that it shouldn't overheat.
Like Linus says: as a Linux user an AMD option would make this one of the best Linux laptops, so I hope the option will be there once my current laptop breaks/gets too old
..I really need to stop being lazy and learn to use Linux it's a deep shame (then again idk how easy it'll be getting games working)
@Zephyrius Can concur. Do it on old hardware or a server first, so you can ease into it. For example, I still run Windows on my main machine and will likely continue to do so until it's EOL, but I run Linux on my old laptop.
@@pandemicneetbux2110 lol DW, I started as a web dev, now niche programmer mastering weird languages, never used Linux once in my life. From my understanding Linux is a net code/server based OS. Understanding windows is just as important as language learning.
@@JACS420 Linux is a great OS for programmers who are tired of writing code and would rather troubleshoot their workstation for most of the day
are you happy now ;)
For using their motherboards in a desktop pc with graphics card, I'd love to see an e-GPU case that allows you to mount the motherboard inside. If it then used modules from the laptop to create custom front and rear I/O, I'm sure it would be a real gamechanger in terms of small form factor PCs
I'd love that.
This.
For now: Velcro
Somebody could technically design a 3D-printed shell for the Framework motherboard that just snaps onto (or screws onto) the e-GPU case. You'd need multiple versions of those (for different e-GPU enclosures), but it's totally doable!
Framework could even make the models themselves, for e-GPU docks that they've evaluated and confirmed compatibility with.
oh that'd be a great invention!
I really hope they'll make a future version with a dedicated GPU that is gaming capable. Upgrading your GPU down the line is far more interesting to me than upgrading your CPU.
That'll come down to manufacturers offering suitably sized GPUs (maybe a line specifically for modular laptops?). I really hope it happens, since I do game on laptop about 1/3rd of the time.
@@MindForgedManacle They used to make them back in the day. Alienware even had them.
I read on their website that they plan to do that eventually
fortunately eGPUs are widely available and relatively cheap
Nvidia used to make MXM or something, format graphics 'cards' that where physical cards that could be changed on the mother board. But that format has long since died, a GPU upgrade would involve changing out the entire motherboard including the CPU since intel dose not make socketed mobile processors anymore.
This whole system is really cool. It’s almost like a company pushing out software patches for their product, but in this case they’re creating fixes for the very hardware on which that software and the user interact with each other. Very neat!
Watching Linus struggle more with his own confusion than any real problem with the process... makes me feel so much better about my own experiences with IT. I felt WAY too much joy along with him when the update screen popped up!
The only reason I haven't bought a framework yet is the lack of an AMD option, the Intel cpus run too power hungry and hot for my liking.
tbf the new ones are a lot better now but yeah
I'd also prefer an AMD cpu, but for the better APU options. I'd take the intel though, but I prefer to have a 2-1 device, like with a 360- or z-hinge. Ideally with a pressure sensitive stylus.
Same, I'll look at it when I see more options.
AMD isn't much better on the high end... I've got an AMD Gaming Laptop from 2021 and I have to massively turn down the frequency and boosts to keep it cool during regular tasks.
ARM would be even better in this regard.
I'm so glad you didn't say they were falling apart. I've been rooting so hard for Framework to succeed and set the standard. Now, if I could only afford one....
Edited for spelling. HA!
Nah, the repair-ability make it a cheap option in the long run.
I've been rooting for them. What type of router do you use to route for them?
I really want an AMD option.
I think that's the primary issue with them. Sure right to repair is wonderful. But you need to market that to the common consumer. They need to make it economically make sense more than just environmentally. Sure buying 3 500 dollar laptops over 10 years is horrible for the environment but it takes less out of my bank account when I need a new labtop. Most people aren't buying 1500 dollar labtops they're buying the 4 or 5 hundred dollar ones because they just need it for either work or school and when those wear out or break they just buy another. It needs to be less expensive to maintain your current device than buy a new one. And framework isn't at the moment.
@@aethlred7380 just make The cpu and ram upgradable like laptops used to be
I'm pretty sure when AMD (I think they're waiting for their new iterations to be fit for this) comes in, then they're really going to pick up the pace. As Linus said, for the battery itself, but also for the power consumption overall. It'll be "greener", indeed.
And hopefully the iGPU. It's still way behind a dGPU but AMD can sometimes double the performance of the intel offerings. Not sure if current gen intel iGPU is close yet though.
PS someone below mentioned the Steam Deck, and that has a pretty nice last gen AMD iGPU!
Such plans often have to be prepared quite early, especially in big companies like AMD. So probably not. Another option would be ARM, when Windows can finally be fully armed.
yesyes plsss
@@TechyBen I think Valve should partner with Framework to deliver modular standards for PC, laptops AND portable gaming PCs.
@@sovo1212 Hello lovel askim
my macbook is a mid 2015 macbook pro. i cant remember what crapped out, but apple said since the laptop is no longer covered, it would cost $750 to replace it.
I've ordered a Framework laptop last month as it's now available in Europe, I wouldn't have discovered it without LTT. Glad to see that the company is developing well !
What? I went to their website just now and the only country available I can see is USA. I tried to purchase a module just to see what regions they ship to and the country drop down menu is grayed out and can't be changed. Am I doing something wrong?
@@AlexanderVRadev It's available in UK, Germany and France
How do you like it so far?
Pros and cons?
@@shipwreck9146 Orders in Europe will be shipped in August so I haven't received mine yet. I'll keep you guys updated in a few weeks
@@_Targen You're a hero
Just last week I convinced my boss to let me pitch Framework laptops to a client and they signed off! Can't wait to show my boss this new update on your interactions with being an investor and end user of Framework products to further instill some confidence in the brand and ultimately the environmental benefits they strive for. So excited to start ordering some of these bad boys!
you're a God :D
awesome
How did you convince him/her to allow you to pitch these laptops to a client? :) Many people are kinda wary of new startup products. By the way, thanks for being for the Right To Repair movement and spreading this Framework laptop brand to everybody, God bless you.
It sounds great for that kind of environment. Just swap out anything that breaks and have extra parts on hand.
Sick keep doing the good work brother!
As well as an AMD option I would love to see 15 or 16" option. There would be a bit of carry over from the 13.3" version eg battery, motherboard, keyboard, trackpad even if some of those things would be better having a bespoke 15"+ version
Same, I just like having that extra screen estate. Also numpad.
Since they didn‘t separate the IOs onto a separate PCB a 15“ version either needs different IO modules (longer) or a different motherboard.
If they had chosen to use flex PCBs to connect the motherboard this would not have been an issue. But I assume that is more expensive.
@@PhilfreezeCH or they could sell an "extender" which adapts 13in mb to 15in by internaly extending the connections for the modules to the jacks.
The 15in mb would be a bigger size to accommodate a dedicated GPU and more robust cooling.
@@theSrex While I love numpads myself, but on a laptop, no, as they make the main part of the keyboard off-center, and I hate that
I doubt that this will fit their business plan anytime soon. It would require a whole new infrastructure for motherboards etc... And the kind of laptop they are selling currently definitely has the largest amount of interested potential customers.
I feel like once graphics cards are somehow integrated into the framework, it’ll be a much more tempting buy.
Agree, as an AI researcher graphics cards are important
Thunderbolt means external cards work fine.
I mean they do have thunderbolt, not to mention all they would need to do really is incorporate amd ryzen components. The new rdna3 gpu is pretty beefy for an igpu.
is it even big enough for a GPU?
Now that we established that whatever you say comes true, can you also wish 1 million dollars for me?
"The bulge in your pants shouldn't be from a wallet." i love it, definitely one of the best sponsor lines
@Hermann[best channel] WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU
I've been watching Linus for several years now and the man is at least consistent: Everything that can go wrong in a simple upgrade WILL go wrong. But only because Linus touched it.
Only if Frameworks used all the same screws or just marked them with color. Silver for chassis, black for motherboard, red for screens. Then just print a circle of the same color around the screw holes. Do it in the repair menu as well.
I love color coded screws and parts, not idiot-proof but if you can always remedy your mistake if you happen to mess up the screws
He didn't drop the motherboard which I was sure he will when shaking it out of the box, lol.
He's the perfect tester
ngl i think it would be awesome if framework made it possible to return the parts u replace like the back panel or the motherboard and they give you some money back compared to its state so they can reduce electronics pollution and also recycle the good parts on the motherboard if not the whole thing
Doesn’t even have to give money back, just sending them to be recycled would be nice
@@LiveType doesn't have to be recycling, could be refurbed
I was thinking that, but maybe for a few generations away, so someone who can't afford the latest motherboard swap can go to frameworks "used" section and upgrade their old framework motherboard, to the series thats one better. Paying users a bit of money is also a good idea, because even people who are more concious about these things need an incentive to go out of their way to post it back to them. Then framework can sell it and still make a little bit of profit themselves i.e they buy back your board for $300 and sell it to someone else for $400
Unfortunately the emissions of shipping your parts back would likely nullify the gains you'd get from doing this. The less time things spend on a plane, truck, or boat - the better. We would also have to make sure Framework is actually processing returned parts rather than throwing them out, which is unfortunately a common practice with many types of recycling.
@@Thalestr has a point about emissions from shipping parts back and forth... but there could be a good used market for these components through eBay or whatever.
Linus. As an investor, could you recommend that they “buy back” old parts? This would be more ecological than users destroying / throwing away their old parts. This would also help with the economical costs.
Just ebay them instead
@@0xbenedikt op's suggestion is better tho
@@0xbenedikt well, having an official outlet to sell the parts back would allow Framework to easier sell refurbished equipment. It would also be useful for a lot of customers who don't like dealing with used items.
@@Idk-b1f I don’t think this burden should be placed on them
too much logistics work for a part you dont even know works, its very hard to keep tabs and have an entire branch dedicated to sorting and refurbishing them, so direct user to user selling would be better
I respect the fact that Linus is willing to be honest- even when it makes him lose money. That is a great way to build trust with not only your viewers, but potential customers.
That's the idea ;)
how is a click bait entitled youtube video honest?
Do you actually believe that?
@@-opus clickbait is promoted by the algorithm, can't blame them for trying to keep the business alive
Oh, he's not losing money. How gullible are you? You have any clue how much he's going to make back from this video alone?
A buyback scheme would be perfect for these types of motherboard upgrades.
Framework gets to sell a motherboard multiple times, and consumers get a small discount.
Takes alot of work though.
I want that, though I wonder how economical it would be for Framework to facilitate directly.
Framework operate a marketplace for reselling components already?
Trade ins?
@@Yusuf_K7: But that requires a much bigger turnover to compensate for the logistics.
I'm reminded of the time I was a System Engineer for GRiD Systems. They were tough laptops, and one of the SEs that I worked with (I wasn't with him at the time, and it happened right in front of one of our largest customers) gave a nice demonstration of it by actually dropping his laptop down the stairs, and it was completely fine. Now, this was NOT deliberate, and he was lucky. Because normally, on these magnesium alloy shells, the hinges were the first thing to bust, even without dropping them. I think all of us, including the salespeople, always had a couple of spare hinges in our briefcases just in case we needed one or both, for either our systems or a customer's system. All you needed was a Philip's head screw driver to remove and replace them. Ahh, the good times that were the end of the '80s!
Ok, that idea diary that Linus kind of teased framework for giving him looks like an MD paper notebook made by Midori. It's a super high quality personal notebook, and I love that framework is supporting another amazing high quality brand. Even if that brand is just paper notebooks
Midori and Moleskine, never heard of them until I worked at staples. Lots of old guys swear by those lmao
As a laptop repair technician, I really enjoy seeing laptops become easier to repair/replace parts for the common man. While I may consider laptops easy to work in now that I've been in the field for a bit, I understand that it's very daunting for someone to just jump into it head first, so seeing a company do something like this really puts a smile on my face
Same thought here, and also a laptop repair tech :) Some of the laptop-tablet designs have absolutely terrible layered designs. One particular model # I'm thinking off requires you to remove every single internal component to replace the top lid, because the hinge screws and WiFi cables are UNDERNEATH the motherboard and aux board and the keyboard assembly is all one part with a curved metal edge that overlaps the heatsink. And don't even get me started on manufacturers using all sorts of different sized screws. If Framework is going to continue along this line of progress and can make it cost-effective, don't be surprised if big-box/online retailers start carrying their Framework products. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
@@XSFx5 i have a box full of about 30 macbooks that need to go out to apple for rma, i manage and maintain a fleet of ~450 macbooks and it is not fun when repairs need to be made, luckily apple is starting to get a little nicer and we are starting to get replacement parts instead of rma only
@@XSFx5 that laptop design you mentioned sounds absolutely horrendous, im so sorry if you have to deal with that often. I work for a large tech company and really only repair their laptops, and to be truthful they are pretty good on being consistent with most screws being the same size, but from all the other laptops ive worked on before i know that it is definitely a problem. I really do hope that framework becomes successful enough to be a in-store option
I still love my framework laptop, I’m so glad to keep hearing and seeing good things from them. My biggest fear, and why I hesitated so long to buy one, is that they would crumble as a company before I would need any replacement parts. Still haven’t needed any replacement parts nor felt the need to upgrade, but I’m confident when that time comes, I will be able to do so from a stable company. Very pleased.
I am not so sure about that... Financing is something that usually comes crashing after around 3 years. So we will need to wait and hope.
Year it is important for them to keep up but they have to work on better displays QHD is not enough in the longer term and bettery life is not so good as it should be.
@@justusmzb7441 Yeah, this can be dead in a few years but fairphone survived and framework as a similar chance.
The market seems even better suited then for smartphones.
They only have to keep up to date components and design, while keeping costs low.
They really should have AMD versions, and well the only way it can succeed is equivalent pricing and QC in all parts.
($925 for a functional non DGPU laptop is just crazy for most people. A AMD 6000 series with a RX680M IGPU will be better than a intel Xe, if it has to be that way.)
agreed
My guess is that they wait for the official thunderbolt support of AMD
@@jooplin so never
@@jooplin That’s not going to happen anytime soon, the best we’ll get for the time being is USB4 in Zen 4. And it’s not necessary anyway, some AMD motherboards support Thunderbolt 3 already even though the CPU doesn’t; the board manufacturer (in this case Framework) can implement it themselves. This is more about the two companies simply not reaching a deal, not any technical limitations.
Performance on a productivity machine is not important to most people. What does matter are things like build quality, trackpad, keyboard, and battery life. And $1k for a reasonably thin and light laptop built well is absolutely normal.
I love this concept so much that I want to buy a mainboard and epu setup simply to restore my full desktop. I don't need a new laptop anytime soon since I barely use one outside of work.
This is the tipping point for me to get a Framework.
I *loved* the idea - but when it was just 'replacement' parts, felt like the idea had potential, but that was all.
Now they've managed to hang in there for a generation and actually show a mobo upgrade, I'm won over.
The only thing that stopped me from buying a framework laptop when I had to replace my laptop last is the absence of a descrete gpu. I love what this company is doing, I hope they have an option like that in the future.
Perhaps something they can put their investors money into although it might simply just not be worth it due the companies relatively small size/sales numbers. There used to be MXM for 'easily' swappable GPUs in laptops but even that had never been a good way to upgrade GPUs (even just a replacement part (not an upgrade) it was nearly as expensive as the laptop it is supposed to go into). Not to mention the big OEMs often didn't quite follow the standard making the parts incompatible with the standard. Smaller OEMs were being a pain with whitelisting only certain GPUs as well.
There were (and are) of course thermal issues to consider as well, a RTX 3050 and 3080 have quite different power and thermal needs.
The best way to do it is probably making a brick of a laptop so that even if you buy a model with a weak GPU you'd still have a massive cooler. Then making daughter boards internally connected over thunderbolt, perhaps with a hardware switch to have thunderbolt available on a regular port at the cost of disabling it internally.
Either that or try to get in on the ecosystem of one of the big OEMs (Dell, MSI, Lenovo) that still have a sort of MXM in their own laptops. I don't know why what the benefit to support a protentional competitor to them would be so I doubt that would happen. At best they could get a lil bit of positive advertising out of it.
He covered that though. External GPU enclosure.
Depends on your use-case, of course, but I don't really get my game on unless I'm at home at my desk.
Also lets you keep your laptop and GPU upgrades separate which just makes fiscal sense.
That also the other thing. Although my use for this machine would be a Linux lite workstation.
@@FrobergDK sort of, the external doesn't work well for me because my gaming is all on my laptop or Deck at this point.
@@SoloLegends That's what's great about eGPUs, you don't need an external monitor to play games. You may have to select the egpu or configure certain games, but I think most will just work normally on the laptop screen as long as it's plugged in and recognized. (I've heard there's slight performance hit compared to external screen, but I think it's pretty minor)
I like the form factor of the desktop case, it looks like it would fit perfectly on a VESA mount behind the monitor. I've never been interested in the iMac form factor out of concerns over repairability and upgradability, plus I love 21:9 ultra-wide monitors.
if I remember correctly the made a version of the case for VESA mounts
@@PeterAuto1 If they didn't, it's 3D printed anyways. If you own a 3D printer you can modify the design, otherwise, just use a service that will print it for you.
Unless of course you're using said Vesa mounts. Still low profile enough to tuck behind a monitor.
@@charliegolf2730 ...or get a drill. :)
I think Framework’s next mission is to build a modular tablet computer, except one where users can build it.
This is a great idea. @Linus.. please pitch this to Framework.
If ever I buy a laptop again, I'd go for Framework just as a support for their approach in technology. I just wish it'll become more available/accessible in my country though.
I think every sff enthusiast just ascended when Linus got to the “mini pc from the old motherboard” part
Can’t wait to actually make super tiny mobile desktops with this stuff
Especially with a metal case that's fully shielded and ways to reconfigure the motherboard without access to a charged dismembered laptop.
sff?
@@twanvanderdonk2504 Apparently, it means "small form factor".
@@earthling_parth Ohh thank you!
@@johndododoe1411 Metal casings and all would be an improvement for future development. But I really dont know any current laptop MB that was converted into a small form factor desktop until I watched this today. Wonderful development for diy.
I'd have a heart attack if I was a framework executive and saw this title
But then you'd be fine when you skip to the end of the video and hear that Linus is overall satisfied with what they're doing.
need people to click
@@GCAT01Living "skip to the end of the video"
Found the executive
With titles like these the answer is always no.
This is revolutionary given how much anti-repair sentiment is there among the manufacturers. Teething problems are expected of a start-up but it has immense possibilities of growth.
I’m fascinated by you. And I want more
Man I can't wait for AMD variants of this laptop. I am very excited for the future of framework. I also hope they make a model in the future with dedicated graphics options, because at that point it will be the best laptop possible to buy and basically the first time you can swap your GPU in a laptop and upgrade it. Great video as always. Keep up the great work guys 😁
Not the first time, MXM was a thing in the past already, but yeah, it would still be awesome
Disagree on having dedicated GPU. Integrated graphics have been improving a lot lately. I don't think dedicated GPUs are here to stay, so it would probably be a bad investment long term.
I loved what Linus did here, is like a free Raspberry when you upgrade your laptop :D
@@larsolav They definitely are here to stay for gaming, video editing, animation/3d-authoring, CAD and so on. But there's just no good way to use the existing design with a discrete GPU, the laptop already has battery life issues, and, frankly, there's a massive market of people who just don't care about those use cases, at least not on a ultraportable laptop. Those who do tend to be in the Apple cult anyway and don't see how a normal person ought ever be able to repair a thing they own, or really own a thing they bought. Deprogramming them is not a good way to make money for a young company.
@@paulie-g I just wanted to agree with you here. Designated GPUs will Never die out as far as I can see in the future. Because of branches like gaming and rendering.
In the use cases of just office stuff most internal GPUs can already handle all that.
If they make a 15 inch or bigger laptop of any kind, I am so in for a purchase. I just need a bigger screen for what I use my laptop for and what I prefer. That said, I love what Linus and Framework are doing for easily repairable electronics and am glad there is a good option for 13-14 inch users.
for me numpad is a must so the bigger display is great addition
Problem with that is, they would need a new chassis design for it, which would be able to properly house all the stand-size components.
So, i doubt that is in the focus of their agenda currently, as they seem to be working on better modularity and compatibility, and fixing any design issues. All these would atleast take another year or two (depending on available investments and speed of W.I.P stuff), assuming they are able to survive until then.
@@Sup_D I never implied they should invest in a new chassis for this purpose anytime soon. I'm just expressing what I would need to buy one their products sometime in the future, whenever said future is.
It needs to go down in price for me. Labtops are portable internet browsers and excel spreadsheets to me and not much more. I don't need a top of the line processor and gpu to do basic web browsing and excel spreadsheets on the go. I have a desktop at home for anything that requires a bit of power. I enjoy their focus on user repairable stuff but when it economically makes 0 sense to me why would I spend 1000 dollars on a labtop? I can get by with budget labtops for 4 to 500 that last 5 or so years. Sure long term they're cheaper but that doesn't help if you don't have the 1000 dollars to drop on one today. If they had any sort of budget option I'd go for it.
I’m definitely considering the Framework for my next laptop. But I’m really hoping they’ll release a convertible version with a 16:10 display by then.
That's the main deal breaker for me too
My Lenovo Legion has made me fall in love with the 16:10 ratio screen.
A 16:10 screen with touchscreen and 1080p-ish (I really don't need a higher resolution) would be perfect for me.
I like that he says the word "screen" exactly at the timestamp you accidentally made
Very very cool to see the old mobo literally turn into a mini PC. That is such a cool use that is endorsed by the company. Honestly if this were more matured I would have been able to convince my org to replace our fleet of machines with these. Being able to swap components is awesome and old hardware could get recycled. It's so great
The moment Framework offers a option for a Touchscreen (that supports pen input) and a a display hinge like in other 2-in1's is the moment that I'll buy one immediately. Artists had to bend over and take it when it comes to 2-in-1 laptops for creative works for years now.
yes thank you!
Someone uses those for art? I'm not an artist, but when I tried it I found the latency (lag) and lack of precision infuriating. I would use a drawing tablet before I ever tried a pen on a touchscreen again. Plus most artists insist on an Apple logo on everything they use, so not the prime market niche for a start-up.
@@paulie-g It always depends on the manufacturer. There are Drawing Monitors like from Wacom or XP-Pen that are really good but they are only for Desktops. In the 2-in-1 space there are mostly only the usual players like Lenovo and so on with decent to meh pen support and we just had to take it.
No Touchscreen is the only thing preventing me from buying it. A 2-in-1 design would be amazing.
@@SomeKittyCat Yeah, I've seen the XP-Pen ones and been tempted to try one. I expect they work reasonably well. Reducing lag beyond what's needed for note-taking costs too much for general purpose laptops. That's why there are dedicated product lines for this particular use case. If you've used XP-Pen drawing tablets or pads, I'd be interested in hearing about your experience.
I am really excited to hear this about Framework over a year, especially considering where the market has gone lately. I have no use for a new laptop, but Framework is on my radar for exactly the reasons you demonstrated here. I am excited for their future. One thing I would like to see from them is a touch screen option, a 2 in 1 chassis, and more first party cards, especially a full size SD card slot and dual USB C. I think the expansion cards are a key selling point to get into Framework, and I am a little disappointed that the selection of first party cards is the same as it was a year ago.
They’re well out of my price reach, but I really support their whole ethos with this and also appreciate you doing an update - I thought it had gone a bit quiet!
They're terribly low value.
This is a really nice concept. Love it. Especially that you are still able to use the older motherboard as a secondary mini Desktop. And the 3D printing aspect gives users the power to design their own case, if they want. So they even can level up the new life cycle of older hardware with their design wishes.
Framework is proabably one of the best company we have in terms of morals. They put a heavy emphasis on linux, they allow for upgradability, and the laptops themselves are super powerful. What more could we ask for?
AMD?
@@twizz420 Yeah, I'd love an AMD option, hopefully we can get it around zen 4.
and ship world wide?
😭😭 i have been waiting over an year
I can't really agree about the linux part, but I guess allowing more user modification is always better. DGPUs and Ryzen would be the next step.
lenovo has been doing that with thinkpads for years, mostly the P, W, and T lines and below
I would love to see AMD make a custom SoC for Framework laptops. It could be on par with the Steam Deck, which would demolish the thin and light market.
"There's no double usb-c" It was actually investigated by somefolks and it would be extremely hard to fit due to the very limited space constraint of expansion modules. Having two next to one another is not only tight, but leaves no room for the controller behind.
I bet if you rotated it to about 15° it'd be pretty well off
@@ClubPenguinMaster88 doesnt resolve the controller issue
@@Ethefake I thought it was purely physical?
The other reason is that it forces them to be USB ports. Currently the type C port is Thunderbolt, among the other usuals for type C. If you have two ports in one slot, the motherboard (whichever part it is that controls ports, probably the CPU) can’t do anything with them other than USB.
@@ClubPenguinMaster88 Not exactly how PCBs work. You'd need bulky and complex ribbon cables.
As a suggestion: Providing that case schematic makes the motherboard itself a competitor to devboards like the rasp pi and jetson nano - definitely market that more!
No don’t take the money back we need this.
If anything give more money!
@Skrin19 , also, by doing this video about reviewing his investment he is returnin part of the investment (as revenue from views and ads) xD
@Skrin19 I know, I just wanted to comment really quickly. Notification squad.
This is a good way of thinking for humanity, I'm glad that reuse/recycle/repair is a mainstream thing now, thanks for promoting this Linus
Fair Play to Framework for going into right direction, their laptop in a way is like miniature desktop pc, where you can upgrade nearly every component. Motherboard, ram, drives, and it is even better as you can choose and swap to your heart desires all the I/O connections and ports. And absolutely love the idea of reusing old mobo as mini desktop pc.
I really hope this company will make a two in one design with active pen support. I really depend on those kinds of laptops designs. I personally like the designs that have a single hinge that swivels so you don't even need to pick up the laptop to make it into a tablet or to show the screen to some else
Framework should make a parts tray with keyboard, trackpad, screen etc separator. So that Linus can find his way around things.
it is linus. he will still f up
I would just like to note, these framework laptops are awesome. Keep this going, the world needs more of this, from computers to phones and more
You should encourage framework to make a “creator” version or a expanded color gamut display model. I have a 5yr old dell xps. Display is great, just needs a new processor to chug less while editing photos. If they can do it, (preference 15”) they’ll be my next computer.
Maybe they could outsource the Screen to some 3rd party company, who can better make Screen replacement parts, like say Samsung or LG on the Top end.
@@Sup_D that’s a great idea! I saw something on the forums that maybe they would need to change the connector on the motherboard to work with LG panels, but there’s got to be a way to make it work 🤔
@@nathaniellecompte55 Well, unless those connectors are not some sort of proprietary tech of LG, there should be a way around.
@@Sup_D Framework doesn't make their own panels, they buy off-the-shelf from long-established display companies, IIRC either BOE or Innolux. Regarding the connector, it would be a standard 30-pin or 40-pin eDP connector, depending on whether or not the panel has touch or not.
@@recurveninja Yeah, in the older non "thin and light" panels they often added adaptors in the panel electronics behind the panel it's self. My current laptop may even have one, as the replacement screen I got for it was a slightly different batch to the original. However, they may not be enough room in a thin and light to fit the electronics/PCB in there?
Modular laptops will never catch on as a sustainable niche product, let alone a mainstream product. But it’s cool. The secondary uses that modularity affords the parts is pretty cool
It would awesome if you could send in old parts into a recycle program run by Framework themselves. Build trust and continue to lead in repair pledge from end to end. I'm also still hoping for an AMD variant upgrade path at some point.
This is a great idea and one I was expecting to be mentioned in the video. Framework, like any other company, refurbishes motherboards for warranty reasons. That could allow uses to return no longer needed boards for a reasonable buyback price, and this would reduce their own repair efforts, and costs to make more boards to replenish consumed warranty stock.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about when I heard that the modules can be replaced. It's the best thing to do
@@friendly0 as someone who works in education IT, having 11th gen Framework laptops/desktops available in say 4 years could be a perfect ecosystem to buy into. Broken ports and hinges are often the death-knell for our laptops. We're currently buying 4th to 6th gen i3/5 laptops as "new" stock to give you some idea of our needs, and still have the majority being 2nd/3rd gen.
Send in old parts to be refurbished or recycled for a little store credit? Awesome concept.
I'd love to have seen the comparison between the last motherboard and the new motherboard on a performance benchmark. You swapped motherboards and CPUs to a better model, but do the thermals hold up?
We're talking LTT...I'm sure that's on the list of videos to be done.
iirc, Tom's Hardware and NotebookCheck have comparisons and reviews up if you want to look at one now
Considering that the cooler itself was included with the mainboard replacement, it would make sense that it has enough cooling capacity to keep up with the 12th gen cpu's. That being said, it's still not a given.
Thanks for the update, Linus! If Frameworks expands into Australia in the next 12 months, they'll be a no-brainer choice for my next personal laptop. Currently rocking a Surface Laptop 3 and only being able to upgrade the SSD has made me crave something more modular and repairable.
Glad to hear that framework is building a stable foundation by continuing to support, troubleshoot and upgrade their first laptop. Hope their partnership with AMD soon:tm: is going to get their foot in the door for gpu access since Intel is dragging their feet with alchemist
I'm really into the whole framework ideology and would like to someday get on of their laptops but the first thing I would need is a larger screen. The work I would be using it for is a lot easier if I have a larger (17") screen. The problem I've always had is that the major brand keep equating larger screen with larger processor and that jack the price up even higher. That makes too much of a dent in my limited budget. A Ryzen 3 4300u is way more than what I need.
Same with RAM, I’d love 16GB without paying for a 4K screen or top tier i7. Also 2-in-1, that’s unfortunately an essential feature. I’ll limp my current laptop along as long as I can, but when the day comes I NEED a new laptop, I hope framework has what a need.
@@Definitelynotacelebrity you can easily upgrade ram on any laptops tho and its super easy.
@@saumyalimbu6918 not any laptops, many are soldered now
I'm personally hoping they do the larger screen too but on top of that a larger chassis that allows more space to have a mobile GPU would be frickin AMAZING cause while I don't do a lot of gaming on my laptop I do play some heavier games sometimes that require at least a decent GPU I also tend to use my laptop for some light upscaling (which does use mostly CPU but you can use the GPU to speed up the process a fair bit) so having a GPU for me is kind of a must.
I've been supporting this company from the get go. In fact, I'm using my Framework laptop right now! 😎🤘 I'm actually waiting on my new mobo and backplate to arrive, so I'm glad this video came out. Can't wait! 😁 Thanks for the video, Linus! 🙂
I just bought a Framework yesterday. The title of this video worried me it was a bad idea, but actually watching the video, I'm glad the answer was no. Of course, it's not going to be perfect out of the box, but I'm buying early in hopes that the kinks will be ironed out soon and I'll have a laptop that's good for years to come.
They click bait like hell now.
@@Batwam0 Lol, he makes soooo much more money from LTT company than from Framework; it just doesn't make sense to destroy his reputation for the odds to make 1 or 2 million from that investment.
@@Batwam0 his investment is peanuts when placed next to the series a funding so no
He's an investor.. Everybody promote their companies.
@@eyluismi168 Come back to us when you have invested 250K USD in a company. You probably won't throw them under the bus unless they made you lose your investment.
Man I can imagine people upgrading their framework laptops and then turning the old motherboard into a PC for their friend or younger sibling to use. This is just such a good idea.
I think that the mini desktop could be a more powerful alternative for the raspberry pi. I really think framework motherboards will come to be very useful not just for framework laptops
Yeah they should really add an option to sell those and add a GPU enclosure.
Hackers
@@AlexanderVRadev They are selling it? Do they require you to proof you have a laptop before buying replacement parts?