Turbocharging a Lada with a starter motor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 เม.ย. 2022
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In this episode - an idea you would never expect to work (and that you'd never believe did if we told you so).
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You could install a microswitch at the throttlebody or below the gas pedal so that the contraption only begins to spin once full throttle is applied. Might hook up an additional fuel pump to the same circuit, that squirts some more gasoline into the intake at the same moment.
Was thinking the same or try different size pulleys to make more rpms at the turbo
Why does all of this remind me of nitrous lol
lol right but ware is the fun in that. I have a peddle car in my head after they made one. I want to make one just to take my kids to school. Now I'm thinking I could use a starter to help go over bumps or for reverse.
with a potentiometer, they could even tune the boost map very precisely
I’m actually curious about this kind of thing at lower rpm on cruise control on a highway, seeing if it reduces pumping losses more than the energy it consumes
Man. I can't get enough about this channel. Every time I open the channel, there is an amazing video. Keep up the amazing work guys! And thanks to BMI for translating too!
Easily the best automotive channel on TH-cam. It is all about theory and execution and is amazing. Great for people troubleshooting automotive ideas as well.
@@Shelboooooo Agree 💯🔥
i like their tinkering, but the voice over just annoys me.
@@A_Maggot at the biguinning yes, but o lowerewd the volume a bit and now i got used to the voice, i identify it to the channel, if it changed it'd be weird ahah
@@A_Maggot better then no voice over.
Your laughter and the way everyone smiles... is how I can tell how successful your ideas are. I couldn't help but laugh along with you guys. Wish I could drive the car. This was a good one. Thank you.
he converted a turbo charger into a super charger🤣🤣🤣
This guy is one of the best mechanics ive ever seen. My father can do this kind of stuff. I have 50% of his genetics. But... Thats not enough to know 50% of what he knows. Its crazy. Wish I could travel and learn from this guy.
let's make an electric turbocharger for our car I love it🤣
You really think thats his ideas? Hes only doing what people ask todo. He got bunch of mechanics that they do all the work for him.
If people ask and there is vision of money, they will do it.
@@raven4k998They are making electric turbos now days.
You should use another smaller internal combustion engine to power the turbine. Like from chainsaw or something like that...
You've invented the leaf blower
@@Mastermindyoung14have them use a leafblower as a turbo...
@@jokeletsplay ... I believe Mythbusters already did that.
@@rupe53 itsjustasix did that on a tacoma too
@@jokeletsplay Roadkill did it too and it definitely works.
You should use a treadmill motor. They are strong, run on dc power and can run continuously. You will have to use a voltage step up circuit though so that you can power it off of the 12v car power.
That would be too complicated and expensive. The obvious solution would be a lawn mower engine to run the blower. Or... use a leaf blower!
Need an inverter, and when you’re already on AC motors there are lots of cheap alternatives that still need the expensive inverter.
@@johncoops6897 really? Lol 😆
@@STAY-GOLD-VINYL I've seen it done on Roadkill with the Leaf Blower Monza. They also have a boost caboose episode.
@@pflaffik isn't the starter motor he was using DC? The car already has an inverter from AC to DC. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean though about using AC motors?
I made a switched (on/off) supercharger from a Toyota previa, and I found that using the bypass valve was really helpful when driving off-boost. I programmed all of this using an arduino and a stepper motor controller. I'm very willing to share with you.
I was thinking you could use the input from the throttle position sensor, along with calculated load value to control how much boost is needed at a specific load/rpm.
I have mad max style switch in my supercharged punto 😃
how have you built the supercharger ?
Great video again. For a better motor alternative you should try a brushless inrunner motor and ESC from a scooter. They can sustain more power and RPM than the old shunt wound starter motor (2kW+), and as long as you supply power, the motor will run. Being 0-5V control you can easily modulate the boost, even make a simple feedback circuit
to regulate the boost value with a pressure sensor, that way it will work like an electronic waste gate with perfect efficiency, and you could slave it to the accelerator pedal... it would make a great ride, you may want to go 24, 36 or 48V to get maximum advantage.
Cheers.
Can you please draw a diagram with the components you mentioned?
They might sustain more continuous current but the intermittent current wont be all that different. Starters routinely pull more than 100a for something like a Lada in summer and probably close to 200a in winter. If you fed this starter 24v it would quadruple the output.
13:30 "we could have used a regular supercharger"
Well, anyone can do that. 😂
You are definitely top tier professionals.
Uuuuh no.
That being said, I still enjoy their videos.
I agree, you guys are the most awesome in what you do.
Professionals get paid, that's the only problem.
@@joshuagibson2520 Woooooooshhhhhh
They're professional jimmy riggers but they do it well
Just not, probably, racers.
Very subtle, but I hear you loud and clear garage 54, keep doing what you do and keep tipping your cap, winking your eye, or even showing your hand. I stand with you.
I really enjoy your channel, sirs!!! You seem to have a lot of fun doing these projects and it shows. I hope you folks stay well -- and warm -- up there!! Whoever does your translation is so meticulous and detailed. Thanks very much!
Bentley Blower comes to mind. Place a switch under the accelerator pedal, when you hit full throttle, the motor starts the turbo. That's how that system worked in the UK, back in 1922.
The Bentleys had the blower running full time. Mercedes engaged it at full throttle only
Hi
Toyota had a clutched supercharger in 1985 that used a pedal switch to engage it too.
And the Bentleys had superchargers, rather than turbos. Direct permanent drive from the end of the crankshaft.
@@MiG21aholic awesome username, and giving the facts.
please make a 0-60 mph test with and without the turbo this is just so cool hahaha
60 mph in a Lada? Aren't you a bit too optimistic? :D
@@Sekir80 hahaha good one
@@Sekir80 They said in the video they hit 92km/h in second. 62mp/h is 100km/h. Dont see why you think its not possible.
@@MyKonaRC It's possible of course. If you have some patience.
Maybe you don't get my attempt of humor. ;)
@@Sekir80 These poor Ladas getting enough torture on this channel, there's really no need to make fun of them too. ^^
What you actually did was a centrifugal supercharger
I had a smile on my face the whole drive! You guys are awesome!!
you have to add a big butterfly checkvalve or something. So the air doesnt has to be drawn through the turbo if it isnt on.
yeah, the power gain is purely because its a less destriction when its on. doubt is more power than without
I doubt that turbo is a restriction at that power level.
@@Mastermindyoung14 not spinning it surely is. You ever seen a turbine wheel? Its a big restriction.
@@osbberjen not at that power level. Nope
@@Mastermindyoung14 for sure.
You could add a switch on the accelerator and a relay so that when you floor it the turbo kicks in automatically.
I love your website.
This would be worth the extra effort. I'm curious to see how this goes if they take it further. Genius engineering really because it's low high tech which make it hilarious
I get a kick out of watching your videos. The different things you do to cars. The tests. The different ideas you have. Excellent. All of it is really good. Keep the videos coming.
This is an ideal setup to use an alternator as a three phase motor with the associated variable power unit to feed it. This way, the variation of speed of the turbo (by varying the motor) can be varied by different means (accelerator position, vacuum, crank speed, or other ways or even a combination of ways).
The reason they used a start motor is that they knew those things are VERY powerful, hence the amazing result. However they obviously pull massive current & will drain the battery quick, there is also a bigger issue which is that starter motors are designed to operate for short amount of time so they have 0 provisions for cooling & even if you drive them at reduced power they overheat REAL quick, that's why he was really hesistant to use it outside of these very short bursts.
But, for this kind of inneficient setup where you want good power especially for a bit of a joke project they are awesome! It's actually quite genius because it's the most SIMPLE yet powerful bolt-on for when you just want your car to accelerate real quick or something like that.
I absolutely love this type of engineering
Bodge it style of engineering .. measure by eye .. tack it and your done
@@carsandstuff365 the mig welded crankshaft was superb. I just love the style of work that doesn't need CAD programs and specific car brain software's. Fun, practical analogue engineering, getting things done and keeping things working.
I would suggest you using a brushless DC motor not a starter motor on alternator that way you can have the very high RPMs
Why not just put that motor in the drive train or the serpentine belt?
@@minkusmaz I had the same thought I think it is called turbo compressor.
nonononononono, turob needs 100k+ rpm. Motors don't like to spin that fast and gears add power loss and wear out rly fast. Skip the turbo and get a blower if it needs to be electric.
@@BruceCarbonLakeriver Electric motor inline makes it a parallel hybrid ✌️✌️ Compressor is if the motor influences the air intake. There are electric super and turbochargers already
@@Rudy97 or a bigger turbo, ex Hx60 or hx80
It's so interesting to see what you rig up here. Electric controlled bolt on (well more or less haha) turbo, that does work like it should. Very cool engineering going on.
There are companies that areaking electric turbo chargers. Not with starter motors of course.
@@nikog7133 This one is actually really powerful, but the reason is that is sucks massive current from the battery, due to the power & the fast overheating this thing can only engage for short amount of time but still it's a cool toy & good for quarter mile.
That was pretty cool! I am sure it can be improved a lot. Great to see that it worked.
9:50 the look when they both don't have their license is priceless
The first guy said he'll pretend he doesn't have it. Probably because he was intimidated by the idea of driving the car.
switch the starter motor for a chain saw motor with a centripetal clutch, that would make it scary fast
Use a leaf blower!
A motor for your motor sounds good
Would blow the car engine...and not in a good way.
with chainsaw engines only pumping 2hp, you wont even get 2hp extra out of your car engine. Anything above 2hp would be physically impossible
Love the show guy's. You guy's always think of something that gives me a good laugh with the crazy antics you all come up with. Keep up the good work.
You guys are awesome, I love the "alternative" (unusual, but ingeniously engineered) content.
Try using something like a potentiometer and install it on the gas pedal so you dont have to press a button
Came here to say this
This is gonna be a good one! Thanks Vlad!
I absolutely love your experiments. You guys are great!!
Wow that was an awesome build!! You chaps always impress me I give you guys a lot of respect, keep the great content coming 🍻
Excellent experiment. The alternator will put more load on the engine unless you use a separate battery. Only then it will be completely separate from the engine. Keep up the excellent vids. Big respect from me here in the UK 🇬🇧
essentially this a hybrid. the altenator will be drawing a small amount of power more longer to regenerate the battery but when needed the starter will be taking that power back more strongly.
the electric motor is not necessary, that assemby should be connected mecanically to the cranckshaft and is called a supercharger.
@@peterparker-fg5kr and that would defeat the purpose of their goal here, which was a standalone apparatus that doesn't directly sap power from that weak ass engine to do its job. MarcAFK is right.
"I'm just gonna pretend i don't have a license''
''Me neither''-*says while driving the car on a public road*
XD XD
Typical day in Russia
You no longer need to bring a physical license in all countries, they will verify the license digitally with a QR code from your cellphone.
You need a license in Russia?
@@MrTruckerf yes,in most countries if not all you need a license to drive
Great idea guys, that looked like a lot of fun, thanks for sharing.
Go brushless , high rpm makes easier to marry to the turbo . Attach two throttles together at the throttle linkage , you can also separate wether you want boost early or later in rpm by how you join them . Usually a powered charger is ran boosting motors from low rpm , turbo chargers for use in motors at high rpm . Be cool to see it boosting the pipes to oblivion and if you add a little ethanol injector to give it more bang . More air needs more fuel , bigger bang ha ha ha it’ll either work or lift the head without undoing it 😁
I did the same thing on a Mercedes 240-d and made it spin the tires.My contraption was much smaller as I rigged it to work with the electronic transmission solenoid kick down switch on the accelerator peddle.
And what's beautiful is that it can be mounted ANYWHERE.
I was a Mercedes tech, back in the 80s, at a dealer. Loved the old 240 Ds' , reliable as hell, but slow.Glad someone had the moxy, to try and turbo charge one.
Back in the 1960s some of the cars that were running at Indianapolis ran electric fan blowers
Got any more info ? Thanks
Again.. funny as .... thanks guys,. Good to see another project from you guys. Hope you are all save and healthy✌
Anytime i hear anyone say top tier professionals, Garage54 and all of the most kick ass merch on the globe is the first thing i think of for sure.
11:27. I believe the way you have the blower set up it's building pressure inside the intake enough at high res to open a valve slightly when it's not supposed to be open. That was probably gas and exhaust mixing and exploding in the exhaust pipe manifold and then exiting out the back
Misfiring and detonation at high RPM. Common for boosted or supercharged motors. Needs tighter spark plug gap or more powerful ignition and more timing
Aka a deadly backfire
@@ruikazane5123 This is a stock engine, so the misfiring and detonation could also be due to valve float.
Nah that turbo won't be building even close to enough pressure to do that. I'd be surprised if it made much than 1psi. More likely to be unburned fuel built up when it hit the rev limiter.
The valve spring is probably around 60lb seat pressure .... there aint no way in hell this thing is opening the intake valve from intake pressure lol
Use a potentiometer for the signal wires and attach it to the throttle and use a speed controller on the motor and you can set the build up of boost so it increases along with the injectors. I think that’d smooth out the acceleration and you decide how many revs the motor stops at (limit)
That was great! Definitely have the system moved to the side and lowered so the hood can go one and hide the system on the next build-up!
I really enjoy your ideas. Very creative, very well done, so many thanks
Absolutely love this,another awesome build! I wonder if it would be possible to put a planetary set in the tensioning pulley and maybe use a more constant drive motor,something designed run longer with less heat being generated.. like a bus electric fan motor or something 😂,also maybe a full throttle switch and arming switch?? Keep up the kick ass builds guys! 👌🏾👍🏾
what was that turbo boost?🤣🤣🤣
"It´s an easy one. Everything you need is a lathe and someone who can operate it."
-> If you have that, you can practically build a whole engine 😀
no, you cant make a engine block etc on a lathe
@@osbberjen I built 3 and a table so ...
@@johnkimble8506 3 what?
This is awesome! You guys need to do more experiments with turbos!!
Crazy stuff again, and working, respect and thanks 👍
I think the "turbo" isn't increasing power when spinning, but that it's actually just decreasing power while it's not spinning, due to the turbine standing still and restricting airflow.
What they feel as "more power" is just the motor being not restricted when the turbine is spinning.
100%
Come on man.. i think they know how engine wotked before , without turbo..
Are you talking about the turbine or compressor wheel?
@@xmysef4920 semantics
Why not simply feel the 'boost' pipes to see if it builts any pressure at all. Highly doubt they are making anything over 1 or 2 psi..
I would love to see what difference it makes. If there is no easy access to dyno, they could do drag pulls and see the time difference.
Definitely want to see more of this !!!
You boys are brilliant on the tools I love the way u fabricate and fetal bits a pieces I find it brilliant to watch 👍👍
Garage54 invented an electricity powered engine compressor.
Yes,so?
A starter motor is made run for small time ... It's very strong ,your almost at power that an electric turbo needs ,by modifying the starter motor it will last longer And not get hot but you need to put 2 bearings one small fan on the shaft and 2 new motor ends ...not too hard I ones made an electric bike like this 😁
Electric wheelchairs use starter motors all the time. Long runs for some
Love this channel always something new and crazy, watching from 🇬🇧 uk
Awesome! Absolutely beautiful
Fantastic. So much fun and simple.
The impeller's shaft won't last long with those sudden stops.
Not even remotely true
But it isn't stopping. It is just not being powered. It has massive mechanical advantage on the starter via the ratios and the actual masses of the pulleys. It's not slamming to a stop each time he turns off the starter motor.
I am SO impressed at the level of your team. Some of the best fabricators I've ever seen. Especially considering the limitations of your equipment. Very talented guys.
You guys always come up with some wacky ideas on this channel! Some are practical, some are down right out there.
Solid!
Top KEK!
Peace be with you.
No doubt in my mind that electric turbos will soon be a great option. With advanced Brushless motors and lipo batts it is totally possible to get the super high RPMs required for a turbo to be effective. The trick will be when someone puts together an electronics package that overcomes the issues of properly delivering the electric power and controlling boost.
yup, and maybe 1-2 "external" fuel injectors so it doesn't run too lean.
my audi s4 had a small electric turbo, they already using them
They will be great for helping to spool bigger turbos
All great points, excellent comment. Allow me to add to the conversation:
Alternators generally max out at 100-200 watts output, this would be drawing off the cars battery primarily for the required current- For example: Treadmill motor puts out 1/3 hp (©250 watts), a V8 starter motor between 1 to 1.5hp (©750-1250 watts), and a diesel starter motor between 5-7hp (©3750-5250 watts). A turbocharger at full throttle on a small 4 cylinder is recovering about 20hp from the exhaust stream. These electric motors all have various rpm ranges which need to be accounted for in gearing to a mechanical turbo or technically a supercharger, I did the reading so you didn't have to. Basically you need a 20hp or above electric motor, controller, capable batteries, and gearing to achieve 30,000+ rpm to match the boost provided by a stock turbocharger on a 4 cylinder, which is quite cost prohibitive.
@@ProlificInvention Typical car alternators are 80-150A, not watts. The cabin blower alone can be 300+W, battery charging can draw another 300-400W (highest battery charging current I have seen on my car is 35A@14.5V, which is 507W for about a minute after winter cold-start), all of the required running lights on older cars with incandescent bulbs is another 100+W, the fuel and ignition system including sensors and computers is another 100+W, then you have all of the other non-essential accessories. Excluding battery charging which is only a temporary load after startup, that is 500+W required for baseline operation, basic comfort and regulatory compliance.
notification squad, Have a nice weekend!🔥🔥🔥
You too bro
@@sonofkami Thank you so much!😎👍🏻
Seems to spool decent from 4:45. Posted at tjis point. I say same setup. Convert altinator to brushless then use a speed controller to power alt. to spool even faster depending on voltage supplied to com. I love this channel!
I love this! It is something I always wanted to try out!
In theory, you could cover the outside in heatsinks to help get rid of some of the heat, but I can't imagine it would do enough for stuff that's deeper in the starter. Also, I loved the video and now I want to see more tests with this setup (or similar). I was not expecting these results
You need an extra fuel injector that sprays in extra fuel when you push the "power" button
A squeeze bottle of fuel taped to the steering wheel with a long hose going into the intake.🤣
lada dont have injectors lol
@@laszloszell8753 😂
Hey guys, great episode! Perhaps a truck starter motor would be more robust, however quite heavy. I really hope you continue to refine this as I do believe it’s viable!!
My friend, some older lawn tractors used a Delco Remy starter/generator.....bearings at both ends.....handy for projects like this
11:30 was an LSPI event. Avoid them and add a dump valve or you will blow up the engine
next time install a NOS 🙏
Love this guy with ton of ideas.
you guys do th craziest shit. I love it!!!! the fabrication!! you guys are living the dream!!!
Probably need to inject extra fuel when activated.
Or nitro!
is that lada carb or fuel injected?
I feel you're getting good results because when it isn't turned on, it's massively restricting airflow and hurting 'stock' performance.. a regular turbo will spin slowly at idle, this being connected to a pulley doesn't turn at all.
I'd love to see a boost gauge to see what kind of boost is being generated.
I'm sure they know how a stock lada drives from the back of their hand
hurting stock performance? on a LADA????? good luck with that! i drove a few in the UK when they weere sold here and gutless was probably the nicest way to describe the performance.
Love the stuff these guys come up with.
I love this channel! Thanks for the great videos. I think the mass airflow sensor should be before the turbo, not after it. That way it will accurately read the amount of air the turbo is pulling in.
Maf can go before or after the turbo
Well, I know what MY next upgrade is going to be. No exhaust modification necessary!
Make a cooling system for the starter motor by splicing off of the radiator
I've been a sub for something like a decade or close to it. I've never disliked a video. Thinking about it I've never disliked any of their crazy brilliant ideas. Before being forced to move to San Francisco and not having either a vehicle or a garage. I was always working on these types of projects/experiments/inventions. This was me and the groups Monster Garage. Good times
Can’t help noticing the subtle blue and yellow acknowledgement. 👍🏼👏🏼👏🏼👍🏼
The whole reason I suggested a brushless motor was so that you could run the turbine fan flat out because a starter motor the brushes can't handle that much RPMs and there's fist-sized brushless motors that turn over 60,000 RPMs
sounds reasonable to me.More reliable also.
starter will not run 60000 anyways. most of these smaller turbos run 30-40k.They have two multiplying pulley sets so starter actually runs around 10-15x slower than turbo.
That's why they're using pulleys. Now you know any BLDS with more than 1,5kw as a starter have?
@@emanuelgoncalvessantos4499 you can't say "thats why" if i just said thats why :D joseph said that burshless wont run 60k , but smaller boost turbos event don't run 60k and they are using multiplication so it's not needed for brushless to run 60k. that was my point. I understand very well that they have low speed, high torque motor hence pulley system.
@@emanuelgoncalvessantos4499 yes 3kw+ . th-cam.com/video/O1AjzwfIYgc/w-d-xo.html
I think using a 3 hp muti-speed wood router powered by a inverter would work much better then a starter motor.
Treadmill motor puts out 1/3 hp, a V8 starter motor between 1 to 1.5hp, and a diesel starter motor between 5-7hp. A turbocharger at full throttle on a small 4 cylinder is recovering about 20hp from the exhaust stream. These electric motors all have various rpm ranges which need to be accounted for in gearing to a mechanical turbo or technically a supercharger, I did the reading so you didn't have to.
you guys make some of the coolest stuff
The turbo in a Lada? WoW! It works!
I'd like to see a supercharger turned by a belt attached to an axle. MORE SPEED = MORE BOOST
LOL. That might be possible with a front wheel drive car.
i'd be curious to see this on a dyno to see what the actual output is N/A and e-turbo, thats pretty cool all the same
very nice work guys
Thank you for great videos.
Make it with a clutch wheel so that it continues to spin when you turn off the starter motor.
The Russian folks are good people.
I can't say the same of their leaders.
If you are from US, UK, or EU, all your leaders are total corrupt bastards!
WTF, over 50% rASSians supports war in Ukraine. They have a brain, don't they?
I suppose you think zelensky isn't a nazi also 😂.
Bonjour,
C'est chouette d'avoir des résultats agréables ! 👍
Ça montre que le calcul de la démultiplication entre le démarreur et la turbine sont bons.
Le principal intérêt de ce montage par rapport au turbo conventionnel réside dans le fait de pouvoir le commander quand on veut.
L'inconvénient est que le démarreur demande beaucoup d'énergie électrique que l'on devra fournir à la batterie par le biais de l'alternateur qui lui sera demandeur d'énergie sur la courroie, alors que le turbo classique récupère principalement une énergie perdue à l'échappement sans vraiment freiner les gaz, lesquels se retrouvent encore plus puissants lorsque le turbo pousse.
Ensuite, le démarreur n'est pas conçu pour tourner longtemps et son rendement n'est probablement pas optimum, puis il aurait besoin d'être refroidi.
Super expérience encore un coup, continuez je continue à regarder 😆👍bravo !
Belphégor,😉
Best car channel on TH-cam hands down
Outstanding, my friend. Great videos.🍺👍🏻
The welder in the shopping trolley, priceless. Liking the vid just for this amongst everything else.
Man love it 🔥🔥 great work
My favorite video from Canada.
I love this crew.
A thumb up even for your music playing in the background when you work the metal my Russian friends. I am happy to from time to time see positively minded folks like you
Great fun ! love this channel !
This is amazing, please tune it. Make more videos with this system please.