Why doesn't the Army adds amphibious training and replaces the Marines and make them all Rangers. ADD an anchor to the Army symbol. James you are such a jarhead. LOL
James you want the Army to train Delta operators in the Fleet and want the Navy to pay for it and give the Fleet to the Army? LOL The Army should pay for their own Fleet if they want to go in the business of maritime which Congress is going to laugh. Marines belong to the Department of the Navy. Marines are part of the Navy's budget. The Army isn't training Marines on the Army's budget. The Army wouldn't want to pay for the Marines training, would day? Without the Navy, Marines wouldn't have a quarter to buy a bullet.
Even the SAS that inspired the creation of Delta realized the UK needed a dedicated maritime special operations unit in the SBS. The SAS has boat teams who train in amphibious warfare, yet they still see the need for full time specialists in operating in a maritime environment.
As a Marine Infantryman who served in the late 80s early 90s I have agree that the consolidation argument could be applied to the Marine Corps easier than DEVGRU. If the Army can maintain airborne Ranger Special Forces infantry and armored units with distinctive cultures, training, and traditions, why couldn’t we save the taxpayers some money and slide 3 Marine Divisions into Big Army? Answer. Because those troops wouldn’t be Marines anymore than a Delta maritime squadron would be SEALs who are expert combat swimmers.
I'm no SEAL fanboy - but I think you need to look at it the other way. Why does Delta need a maritime component? The ocean is unforgiving, it will swallow you up and not even return your bones - you need full commitment to the domain. There's a reason the British SAS focuses on land operations and the SBS focuses on maritime - SEAL Team 6 needs to reduce land operations capacity and Delta needs to reduce its maritime capacity. TLDR they BOTH need to deconflict.
I agree. You need a organization that has a a mastery of the maritime environment, and I think 20 years of the GWOT has stunted that capability from NSW. 70% of planet Earth is Water, and that is not a Army strong attribute.
Probably because the Navy receives 80-90% of the BUDs students when they quit or get dropped from training. BUD's is a great recruiting tool for the Navy and supplies the fleet with lots of sailors.
@@huntz7847 yep that's probably the reason cuz I've heard that if you fail BUDs at any point you basically get your mos reclassified into the needs of the navy and BUDs has like a 80+% failure rate.
In my opinion, spot on. Bottom line is Delta is a JSOC unit that pulls candidates from all branches. You get the best from all of the US military not just the US Army. Delta will get candidates that have a waterborne capability simply by allowing all branches to apply. Contrary to popular belief, the US Army has a waterborne capability. Your #2 teams and #5 teams in SF do that already. The key word here though is “joint.” You can bring in expertise from all angles…standing up a water component to Delta would be cake. They probably already have a waterborne capability…we just aren’t aware of it.
I did not say anything about deployments. I simply said Delta is a JSOC unit. I’m just saying, doesn’t it make sense to pull the best of the best from all branches. I’m not trying to get involved in a tit for tat game here. All Special Operations units and conventional units for that matter have their studs and weak. If I were a decision-maker, I’d love to have the ability to have the pick of the litter from the largest pool possible.
Yeah having typos like 'Mosaic' for MARSOC and 'Death Group' instead of DEVGRU in big-ass graphics needs an editor fix before posting. Love Jay's content though.
@@travisharman8366that's where you are wrong. He does make good amd valid points and someone finally speaking up make the sf look good. There not just lethal, there also smart very smart. Way smarter then seals. That makes them a lot more lethal. Seals are just a problem. Delta could take there maritime work with ease. Even marsoc could easily take those responsibilities. St6 is pointless because we have delta. The regular seals ya maybe u could keep them. But that still doesn't make sense. There more of a problem these days then a positive. Marsoc could easily take there work. Now that the marines finally have there own sf group. They could take the maritime stuff and the seal can desolve along with there fuck ups and arrogant attitudes. And be replaced with pros
@@jermf35 did you work with the seals personally to say they are pointless, to judge we need to first work extensively with them to know their strength and weaknesses, if we do not then were just egotistical bastards judging only the negative side of things, Green berets have their own problems with drugs and human trafficking, it's just they are good at silencing their own members
If you dissolve Team 6, then that leaves Marsoc free to do all the maritime work that Marines are supposed to take care of. Semper Fi and bye bye Seals.
Depends if the Marines want it. Marines ceded that role and identity since WWII in favor of overwhelming combined arms for entry in a hostile environment. Then the previous Commandant reorganized the Marines for Wake Island 2.0 but with no islands near the threat China....
@@robertst.pierre1068 I always wondered if it would be beneficial to make DevGru as a SMU more like 24STS. Where you have PJs, CCTs, TACPs and SR all applicable to try out for 24. In DevGrus case you could have their organization and selection open to SEALs, MARSOC, Force Recon and Navy EOD etc. If the SEALs are producing some bad apples, pick from a another tree.
Jamey Caldwell (Former CAG) mentions that he was in a water troop in the unit and trained a lot with DEVGRU and they were told to "slow down" or "pull back" with regards to their water ops capabilities as the powers above feared CAG would be stepping on DEVs toes Also, Colin Powell was planning on disbanding Development Group in the early 90s as his view of SEALs had been tarnished from previous run-ins. A successful key operation by Development Group in Haiti in 1991 turned the tide and prevented the command from being dissolved.
Who told you that nonsense. I was stationed on Dam Neck from 91 to 95, and I never heard anything like that. I don't doubt that COLON Powell is stupid enough to say something like that. I have never been a Colon Powell fan. But he would have to be 9 kinds of stupid to say that, because he would have known that nobody in power would ever support this idiocy. If anyone ever did I can just imagine what politicians would hear from their constituents in the next election. "Did you vote to disband SEAL Team 6. And why would you or any of the others think this was a good idea." And they had better be able to say no and prove it. Because the American people consider SEAL Team 6 to be an iconic American Institution that embodies all that is good in America.
@@georgechristian3902 Sean Naylor - who wrote the book Relentless Strike....who knows if it's true or not....he mentions it in the book. It was actually General Garrison who said this..
@@georgechristian3902 . QUOTED FROM THE BOOK - Relentless Strike “Blue pulled it off, Bill Garrison was very satisfied and proud of the results, and defended Blue at the [Joint Chiefs of Staff] level the next time he had to brief them,” said another Team 6 officer. “That was a seminal event, no doubt about it.” “If it weren’t for the success of that mission,” Garrison later told another officer, “SEAL Team 6 probably would have been dissolved.”2
@@MikSF123 I don't believe it was true. As for the CAG guys being "pulled back." Let me give you a little reality check. My wife worked at a hotel on the beach in Virginia beach. And every once in a while, very early in the morning, she would see a bunch of guys about 1/2 mile off shore swimming north. And they were all swimming with powerful overhand strokes, instead of using some other less strenuous energy saving stroke. Sometimes it was just the swimmers. Sometimes there was a RHIB with them. And on the same day it wasn't unusual for people going to work at around 8:00 am to see a bunch of guys carrying fins and snorkels running south on General Booth Blvd, then running east on Dam Neck road towards Dam Neck base. What she actually saw was DEVGRU operators swimming from the beach on Dam Neck Base, to Fort Story. Which is about 11 miles, and then running back, which is about 16 miles. And they did it all before 8:00 am. As for the inflatable boat that was seen accompanying them every once in a while. It was there because those particular swimmers were trying out for DEVGRU, and some of them might have to be rescued. The guys who actually belonged to DEVGRU didn't need to be rescued. And you think the Delta Force boys were being "pulled back" because their chain of command didn't want to make DEVGRU look bad. Right............. Sounds like a case of someone losing and then saying they lost on purpose.
It's crazy how tier 1 operators never speak negative in general about each other, only talking about the bad eggs. Chris Vansant (delta) even complimented ST6 by saying that as the GWOT went on, Delta and ST6 became interchangeable. The brits understood that you gotta have a separate element that devotes the logistics and organization specific to the nature of the unit. Ain't that why other tier 1 elements exist? (RRC, STS24, ISA.) Delta has a recce troop, it has an intel squadron, and I'm pretty sure they could become a cct if they tried. But they didn't cannibalise them, because they know that if they spread it out, each unit can focus on what they do best.
never mind this fool. He was just a mediocre Tier 2 in the Army that couldn't make tier 1 or even get a contract after the military so he has to make videos bashing the Seals to pay his bills. I read this cat a while back.
First of all CCT'S are Air Force. And their training pipeline is much longer than any other SOF in the world. And Delta Force, like every other Tier 1 unit usually has a CCT along when they go on a mission. And since CCT'S are actually the most elite special operators we have, why would they choose to take a step down. CCT'S are the closest you can get to being Air Force royalty.
It's not crazy. Because badmouthing other SOF organizations, which are your brothers in arms, in public isn't very honorable. It's a sign that someone lacks character.
If CAG already recruits from other SOFs (Marines, Army, Air Force, Navy) just make CAG the only counter-terrorist group for all of DOD. Have a maritime element in CAG when needed from the SEALS who join CAG. Save lots of money, headache, butt ache, and red tape in the end.
I believe the Aussies did the same where the Australian SAS have a ‘Water Troop’ which specialises in amphibious assaults, reconnaissance and other waterborne missions. Even the 2nd Commando Regiment have elements trained in maritime counter-terrorism (MCT), allowing them to conduct ship boarding, offshore assaults, and other maritime special operations.
Delta already has a maritime capability. Delta selection only conducts two courses per year, with 100 candidates invited to each class - Delta couldn't get enough SEALS to make it through their selection to maintain a full-time maritime unit, so they have to create their own maritime capable soldiers. Plus, I think you're forgetting something, the SeAL acronym stands for Sea Air and Land, which identifies their capabilities, so there would be no need for them to go to Delta, because they're already trained in what they need to do, and so it would make more sense for SEALS to be given their own mission, which is why JSOC was created and is how most special operations missions are run today. The commanders in JSOC should already be aware of each unit's capabilities and assign those units to the most appropriate portion of the mission for their capabilities. With that in mind, I would say that Delta doesn't even need a maritime capability, and neither does SF, since we have SEALS, or Delta could request scuba teams from SF to accompany them on missions that have a maritime component to it, but I think it's smart for each unit to have whatever capabilities it believes it needs and probably cuts down on a lot of military bureaucracy which can often stymie missions due to politics, competition, etc.
@@americanosbadassius9292Seals are pretty good at maritime stuff since that’s what they are trained for. When it comes to thing outside they’re mission set that’s when they fuck up.
@@JoshuaBunkowske I think SEALS should have an emphasis in the water, since they belong to the Navy. SEALS are trained for missions in the sea, air and land can I have no problem with them focusing on those missions around waterways, etc. There's no reason why they can't be good at all three. People are imperfect. Special Operations will be imperfect. Failures will abound.
@@americanosbadassius9292 Yes, for example VBSS or missions around with land around the water or infill by boat. They can be good at all 3 but not great at all 3 unless they get more training. Im not an expert but thats just the way I see it.
Delta has Scuba Capabilities. Seals have Land capabilities. Delta is the best on land . Seals are the best in water . A good CEO would keep Seals on water and Delta on Land . But if they found themselves out of their element they would know enough to survive. Like a Stand Up Fighter knowing enough grappling to survive if the fight went to the ground. The problem is. The Military told Grapplers ( Seals so to speak) Go fight a war where you can't go to the ground ( Water ) . 20 years of fighting out of their element exposed all their weaknesses.
Believe it or not large corporations have different groups, sometimes called Tiger Teams, that do pretty much the same thing. They have more than one, because if you only have one, there isno ballance mechanism. If the "only one" group came up with something. There wouldn't be anyone else with the skills, education, and experience to take a look at it should upper management want a second opinion.
In my most humblest opinion (having been in the Navy and Army intel fields), I would say, yes, we need both for [atleast] two reasons: One, when any “outside” component to the Navy Fleet who train/fight in a joint scenario(i.e. Seals, MEU’s) they share a command. The fleet will take command until they get on station, and then the component command will take over the exercise. I would think there would be a more symbiotic relationship with the maritime forces than there would be with the land base forces. Two, with conflicts and wars ramping up around the world, why not have a secondary top tier component, especially one that’s maritime based? Taiwan comes to mind.
Wrong. I haven't met 1 SEAL that trashes Army, not 1. Find me one on social media. They don't punch down. Meanwhile the GB that couldn't get a government or civilian contract after the Army needs to pay their bills and make countless videos. It's sad if you ask me.
I always thought they were a cool unit in SF. From what I read, before CAG would become fully operational, the army basically needed a unit to be their designated counter terror group, and Blue-Light was formed to fill that gap. Interesting little history in the special ops world.
Jay - As a guy who volunteers with a nonprofit that serves SOF guys, I’ve had the pleasure of working with guys out of several JSOC units, including “the Unit,” “the Beach,” and that other unit in Northern Virginia that recruits a number of Green Berets. I’ve worked with these guys doing civilian business work. I’ve come to really appreciate and value all my friends from The Unit and The Beach. Generally, the guys seem cut from the same cloth: smart, driven, competent, humble, and capable. And, they are well educated, with Officers and NCOs with degrees from top schools. Funny though, the Unit guys I work with could easily blend in anywhere. They look like soccer dads who do Cross Fit and run Spartan races. My friends from The Beach all look like they came from central casting for “JSOC Operator.” What I will say is that in the line of work I do, I really see the applicability of FID and Human Intelligence experience. The SF guys I’ve worked with who have gone on to serve in an intel-focused JSOC unit or squadrons are absolute studs. And I’ve developed friendships with several ST6 guys who have done FID work and served in an intel squadron. So, as a civilian who works with transitioning SOF guys on business building, I appreciate you all!
I spent 3 years in the 1st Ranger battalion. Later I was active duty in the Air Force at a school when I heard there was a Delta dude on base and looking for potential candidates. I found him and was told I couldn't go due to some trouble I got in when I was leaving the Rangers. Biggest regret of my life.
DEVGRU also accepts recruits from SWCC (Special Warfare Combat Crewman) for their Mobility Team, EOD, and SARC (Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman) accordingly. And Yes, being referred by someone is a big part of how they select those to try for DEVGRU.
Good points, but one thing I would like to mention is that everyone's job was different in GWOT compared to now. CCTs doing JTACing rather than Global Access stuff, ODA's doing DA, SEALs in the middle of a landlocked country, etc. I would like to think about how they would work when we talk about a full scale war.
The helocopter crash was on the 160th not the SEALs. (You can blame Extortion and RedWings on them). Heat islands develop over concrete compounds that rob the pressure altitude from the rotors in the hottest places in the world. They don't usually fast rope into the center of compounds. It was just the circumstances of a one of a kind mission. Not since the SonTay raid, where they just intentionally sacrificed the helo.
All these former SF guys do is hate on the SEALS. The US Navy is a vast organization deployed everywhere throughout the World. They need an autonomous Special Operations Force & even a Tier 1 unit. If the plan is to roll all of the Tier 1 capabilities into CAG, then it isn't actually reducing or streamlining anything. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having 2 similar Operational Tier 1 assets that can conduct similar mission sets,
Ultimately it comes down to politics, having 2 units competing for the same job.. may not and has not always lead to the right team getting the job. If some big wig favors one asset over the other for personal/financial reasons.. guess who gets that job? Also the sentiment about SEALs don’t just come from us on the Army side. I can wholeheartedly tell you that many of our foreign counterparts share that sentiment after operating with them.
I’ll take Delta all day. Whatever Delta can’t get to, the Rangers will clean up. Get rid of the Seals if it’s going to be endless Marcus Lutrells, Jockos, Rob O, etc. they all blow
lol you could say the same thing about Tim Kennedy and other green beret influencers that dude is max cringe both units have their fair share of black sheep
You're knocking SEALS who wrote books or talked about their unit in the public forum. But kissing the ass of a guy with a youtube channel who can't say 3 words without telling you he was a Green Beret. And quite frankly, the next time you feel like insulting the SEALS, or any other group in the SOF community. Do yourself, and the rest of the world a favor and just STFU. What do you know about any of it. Do you have any knowledge or experience in SOF. I seriously doubt it. And yet you still feel justified in knocking real warriors who earned the respect of everyone who understands what that word means. Clearly you don't.
If you want to know everything about seals and want to hear about them all day long, go to the army. I was sick of seals books but gosh this delta, sf, rangers guys really love to talk about seals.
Thats because Frogmen are at the top and these ankle biters will hate on them and talk crap about them all day long --- they are absolutely jealous of Seals. Some seals have podcasts and spread positive energy meanwhile podcasters like this one is the opposite - becoming typical
Here's a non-emotional unbiased counter argument, coming from an engineering (STEM) perspective. Redundancy saves lives. Sure in the corporate world, redundancy is avoided, but in engineering and any human activity where life is at stake, it is absolutely critical to have one or more fail safes. For example, imagine getting on a plane that was designed and maintained without any redundancies (not mentioning any companies in particular . . . ). Imagine what happens if an engine fails mid flight? Similarly imagine getting in a major war, like taking on the drug cartels and possibly annexing northern Mexico, and then imagine what happens if your only DA oriented tier 1 unit has one or more mass casualty events . . . Both of these scenarios (midflight airplane engine failure and mass casualty events) have happened in the real world. If you only have one tier 1 DA organization, its going to take years to get it back to full strength, which will have both immediate effects on the battlefield and long term geostrategic consequences across the global (in the interim time). Engineers develop systems and operate them with redundancies to prevent these events from becoming fatal. I think it is absolutely necessary that the DOD and government as a whole operate in the same way. I would go as far as to say that MARSOC should have a tier 1 element stood up as well, especially considering that the next major conflict could be with a near peer threat or with extremely wealthy and sophisticated organizations, like the the Cartels.
It’s funny seeing tier 2 and 3 former operators talk about tier 1 units, never being there and knowing most of them don’t give a fuck about these type of dumb comparisons… legends of both communities have respect for each other as do most professionals in those teams
The man’s entire brand is shitting on the frogs more than their scorned ex wives. I wish you could comment photos on here because the I could milk you meme would be perfect.
@@JamesonsTravels he must of not paid attention when he was with them then if he has an opinion like that 😂 but hey maybe I learned better on cod and he wasted his time in the military
@@JamesonsTravelsHey brother, “spending time with a tier 1 unit” doesn’t make you a part of said unit. A Green Beret talking shit about DEVGRU Operators is laughable. Jay doesn’t even have a seat at that table homie.
I mean there’s a reason why there’s Delta & Devgru. Same as the UK, they have the SAS & SBS. They can both do one another’s job but they focus on different mission sets. The only difference is SAS & SBS guys go through the same selection and they get to choose which unit they want to go to
There are many reasons for why we have Delta and DEVGRU. One of those reasons is that DEVGRU is set up to deploy anywhere, at any time, at a moments notice. They also have a lot fewer people than Delta, and their command is very isolated, and compartmentalized. Which means classified data is more controlled and fewer people know what's really going on with a mission. In short this means that DEVGRU is a lot less likely to have a security breach than Delta, or any other organization with a lot more people. Because when it comes to larger forces. There are always more people on the staff who want to be involved in the mission. And a number of them have very little or nothing to do with it, they just want to "be informed." Which is military speak for "look at me, I get to know about a lot of cool stuff that you don't because I convinced higher ups that I should be included in the briefings." DEVGRU, along with everyone else who will be involved are also pre read into a lot of classified issues that might come up on a mission. They are all educated and trained the same which makes the team more homogenous. They are also qualified to do anything they might need to do to perform any mission, be it diving, HALO, HAHO, CQB, UDT, and every other qualification available in the SOF community. There are people in Delta who haven't been to Freefall school, are not trained as combat divers, and know nothing about UDT. And I'll guarantee you that nobody in Delta can even come close when it comes to dealing with maritime problems. They are all cleared for the same information and nobody has to be read in at the last moment. Which saves time and paperwork, cuts down on the time it takes to get them in the air, and makes it easier to tell someone who thinks they should "be in on a mission" that they are "not on the list." And leave it at that. And then there is the fact that if you want a group of highly motivated, highly competitive men to always put forth maximum effort and try to do everything right, the most effective way to do this is to make sure they have some competition. Sitting at the top all alone has always led to complacency. Delta, and DEVGRU are always trying to outperform each other. Do you think DEVGRU would work as hard to be the best, if they didn't have Delta always competing with them, and vice verse. These are just a few of the reasons that DEVGRU exists. Oh, I forgot the DEVGRU part. If you want to test weapons, the best way is to have some of the most elite warriors on the planet use them, and then tell you what's right, and what's wrong with them.
@@Swamp_Lad You have no idea of just how idiotic your comments are. Ask yourself this. Why do SEALS have Top Secret clearances? Could it be that SEALS are involved in a lot of Top Secret things? And before one of them can publish a book, they have to have reviewed by the government to make sure there isn't anything classified in it. You in way over your head here. Next time pick a subject you actually know something about, if there is one, before you sound off again and further advertise your ignorance.
@@georgechristian3902 mimimimi mister I get offended at random trolls in the internet 😂 it’s not my fault your elite warriors can’t keep their jab shut
@@Swamp_Lad Ok Kotex Kid. Tell you what Come on out, and you can call me a random troll and tell me to keep my jab shut to my face . Or I can introduce you to some others and let you pick the one you want to stand in front of and Stttuttter before going completely mute. Because an apology of a man like you doesn't have what it takes to insult a man to his face. Now, why don't you go make sure you are well stocked with tampons and maxi pads, and then practice your pronouns. Prance off now. Because I refuse to have a battle of wits with someone who is completely unarmed.
I heard CAG selection is just a nice nature walk, going from point A, to point B. Nobody is yelling at you, no hell week, no surf torture. You eat and sleep. You might have a hill or two to walk up. But the scenery I heard is beautiful on that nature walk.
Read Marcinkos book in jail two years ago and a book about the SF/ground branch/ delta during the invasion. S6 was created from Mobility 6 (MOB-6) as a water counterpart to delta force after the hijacking of a few ships, they trained exclusively on Oil Rigs in the early years.
I 100% agree and have for many year's. About time someone had the balls to say the truth. And of course it's this gentleman. I like his channel because he says it how it is and doesn't give a fuck if anyone gets mad. Just tells the truth. And that's refreshing
Why don't you have former Delta Operators like Tyler Grey , Chris VaSant, Kyle Morgan with former DEVGRU operators like DJ Shipley, Marcus Capone, Eddie Penney together to discuss the similarities and difference between Delta and Devgru. With all due respect you have no idea since the most you were, was a tier 2 operator that couldn't even get a government contract or private on your skills you learn in the Army after your discharge.
I love both DELTA and DEVGRU, Special operations in general. Every time a special operations documentary came on discovery or the history channel, i was HYPED!! considering I only flipped burgers and pancakes in the Air Force LOL. When I met the CCT PJ cadre and students at Lackland and witnessed the indoc course in person ,It was like meeting michael jordan and the chicago bulls. I love all special operations units.
I bet he has a way better understanding then you do. With him being a former sf guy himself. You just can't stand that he said no need for team 6. When we already have the best in the world at it in delta Amd he's right. We don't need a number 2 at it. Team 6 can go away know need for them. Amd marsoc cam take over the responsibilities for the regular tier 2 seals. They would get the extra training and could take there work. So many people who have worked with seals hate it and don't wanna do it again. Because of how unprofessional they are. When marsoc could easily do there job. Amd they need more stuff to do anyways. Seals have lose lips and are a problem. Lots of fuck ups by them many more that he didn't say too. Trust me he knows what he's talking about. And you don't. With all do respect of course
@@jermf35 don't bet, you will lose the little money you have. If he is so knowledgeable about all the branches, why couldn't he get a government contract or civilian after the Army? He has all these SF skills and he is making you tube videos to pay his bills? Yeah thanks for the laugh. If you want to know about the Air Force you talk to AF operators, the same with the Army and Navy and speak with the successful ones that they made the military into a career or got a government contract when they got out. The Navy from their budget has their tier 1. Army has their own, like the AF. No low level enlisted puke that is from another branch that couldn't get a contract after the Army is going to tell the Navy what tier 1 they should have. The Marines belong to the Department of the Navy, they exist because of the budget of the Navy. They both do different missions. Do you tell the Army to integrate the Rangers/SF together to save money. Do you tell the Army to integrate Delta with SF to save some money, We don't need 3. You know how dumb you would sound?
SMH.. you are so off base here. Why are you so emotional regarding SEALs? You spent 12 min, in this vid, and in multiple vids..being in your feelings..lol. A lot of unnecessary hate..bordering on jealousy.. But I am happy to come on your show and discuss.
The real reason why from a former SOF and OGA guy here. 1 He is trying to gain followers to make money by any means necessary. 2 He runs a training business and is promoting that. 3 The wars are over and these communities are fighting for funds. So they will turn a blind eye to his behavior for their own gain with no downside to the unit. 4 He is jealous. Honestly it is probably a combination of all of these. What he fails to realize is in the long run all he is doing is screwing himself. Every community has bad apples. I can name guys from each community that I personally worked with or around that got sent to prison. The military is a direct reflection of society in every aspect.
According to John shrek McPhee, the unit doesn’t need JSOC to deploy, development group does. Not sure what he means by that but that’s what he said on one of his videos.
@@rossg4788 I am referring to UKSF compared to CAG, not SAS compared To SBS. I know they do the same selection up until the additional swimmer canoeist training the SBS finish with.
If Delta is based on the SAS, it makes sense to have a maritime element. A saber squadron in the SAS is made up of boat troop, air troop, mobility troop and mountain troop.
I have to agree here. Why have two units doing, essentially the same job, but in different organizations. Swimming is not something only Navy personnel can be trained to do. For those who do not know, two Navy SEAL teams and one SDV team (also SEALs) competed in the 2023 U.S. Army Special Operations Command (USASOC) Best Combat Dive Team Competition. Guess who won first place... an Army SF Team. My point is this: Collect all that talent into one place and get rid of the duplication of effort.
We were in group at the same time just different battalion. I 100% agree with your prospective on this. Delta was created to have a response jic an air intervention was needed but they aren't limited to that. The seals are very good but they are tier 2 like green berets that aren't in a CIF. Love the channel and how you are using the platform to help potential future green berets.I hope you are doing well and keep going brother.
Given this logic, should we maintain Raiders? Dev already has SBT personnel, and some Marines are also integrated into Dev. While I don't necessarily oppose this idea, I believe in the principle that "one is none, two is one, and three is better." Instead of eliminating these units, we should evaluate our mission sets more logically, recognizing that highly trained individuals are essential for success.
@@elijahullmann6231 I did my first 8 years in the Corps, I know they don’t like relinquishing control as SOCOM came up over the years, but never happened. Brings money into the Marines for improving operational capabilities, so not all bad.
1. Excellent points about UBL raid… Burial at sea GMAMFB. 2. Every service has their favorite multitool, but only one can use 3/4 of the Earth as an aquatic drop zone. 3. You’re gonna need another jar.
He doesn't need another jar cuz lots of these comments don't make sense and there missing his points which are spot on. All CAG needs to do is add maritime to it and have a group that specializes in that and call on them when needed in the water. And when water missions aren't there. They stay with the regular delta guys doing land missions which are the majority of the missions anyways. Pr you could give the seal stuff to marsoc
@@jermf35 I understand your point(s). CAG further modeled off SAS/SBS UK. Yes, Raiders could do the Maritime mission as well. USMC is under the DON. One question though, who would end up buying the hair gel?
First off, I respect the hell out of you. The best reason I can think of on why the US should not add a maritime capability to Delta is to look at the UK. The SAS and SBS I am sure work together, but the SBS maintains the maritime capability. If the UK which has a fraction of the budget that the US does has decided that keeping the maritime component separate is a good idea there is a reason for it. After all we got the idea for Delta from the Brits.
the only people that get super defensive about seals which they never served as one themselves, are the ones stuck on seals from watching movies and video games. internet and social media culture.
or the only people making videos bashing seals are the ones that couldn't get a contract after the military and can't get a job and need to pay the bills.
I'm a Army veteran but not a SEAL or SF. If I had 20/20 vision, met the Army requirements, I'd be a SOAR, TF160 pilot 🚁 . In The Company of Heroes is a great non fiction book. Worth a read.
@@DavidLLambertmobile If I could join again and wasn't afraid of the water. I would try SEALs but at 22 or 23 years old and get some college but I would have to get a trainer to get me ready for BUDS and SQT. That Gold Trident looks awesome on the uniform.
“Delta takes all branches”. Because sf and rangers aren’t nearly as good as seals and some marsoc lol. Devgru FACTUALLY has more successful high end missions and has a MUCH wider skillset. I understand that seals have hurt you lol SAS even says devgru is superior to CAG. I appreciate that you keep trying hahaha
If you're asking that question, why do we need army infantry when we have the Marines. They can do twice the job with half the personnel at a quarter of the cost.
So long as they remain near the beach. Away from the beach they depend totally on the Army for all support. History has taught us some pretty nasty lessons on this thought.
“Waste” as defined by the Lean management concept is “anything that does not provide value to the end user.” Redundancy, particularly in terms of critical spares, is not waste. I’m both an army combat arms veteran and senior business analyst for F500 firms. I personally see a value in maintaining a second Tier 1 force, particularly in the unfortunate event that Delta incurs issues at some future point.
If Delta's the best, why do we need RRC, ISA, S24, Ranger battalion, SF groups, STS, SWCC, MARSOC etc. etc. Just have special components in Delta do it all. This guys logic.
He couldn't even get government contract with the DOF or private after he left the military but he has to pay the bills. Everybody is making videos from their basement. LOL
@deathfire096 this guy is a hater, a salty former SFC Douchebag. I've seen many in the Army like him over the years. The second this guy opens his fat mouth he comes off as belligerent. He's got a case of Napoleon complex mixed with he can't let go of his SF career vibe going on! Looks to me like he was a big mouth bad attitude nobody before his military service and again after his military service. Most of the former operator community want nothing to do with the guy because he's highly emotional, difficult to talk to, put people on blast on TH-cam and he's a very negative person and talks as if he's from the hood. He's got that big chip on his shoulder and likes to pound his chest about his career when there are hundreds of other operators that have done way more than him and they consistently have far better online presence and attitude then this clown does. Haters gonna hate!
It’s really hard to take you seriously when you put a picture of German Wehrmacht officers as SAS and DEVGRU as death group lol. That’s also not Marcinko.
The more tier one units the better.. just like there are not enough Rangers from the battalions to do it all.. there are not enough anti terr operators if the shit hits the fan..
I agree 110%! I think all SOF direct action operators should belong to the Army. Like you pointed out in an earlier podcast, CAG can draw in operators from any branch of the military. I wonder how much it cost to maintain the SEALS?
These units are not redundant. Delta Force doesn't write dozens of books. Thus, Seal Team 6 has the non-redundant specialty of authorship and publishing.
lay off the glue. The founder of Delta, Colonel Beckwith started with the book writing with other Delta. Amazon has them for sell with a discount price. You look foolish. Everybody needs to pay the bills including Delta operators and the SF of this video.
It is a form of decentralization within a command (JSOC). Unless the Unit wants to take on potential maritime operations, you need ST6. ST6 brings a capability hat the unit cannot bring. Also, ST^ has been responsible for multiple HR missions in the last few years. Last try integrating a tier 1 Army unit and a tier1 Navy untit. We cant even get them to go through the same Q course.
If you applied those same Lean Six Sigma principles to MARSOC, would you recommend eliminating them too? It seems that they have the exact same mission as the Green Berets. That would make for another interesting video.
Your criticism and point of view is completely valid. When talking about SEAL Team 6 Fck ups I was suprised you didn't mention Grenada and the ultimate fk up of a Hostage Rescue team, killing a hostage, Linda Norgrove the British Aid Worker, by blowing her head off with a grenade thrown by Team 6 operators. I wasn't there and I am not judging, war is chaos and things go wrong. However a hostage rescue unit that kills hostages it's sent to rescue? Not good. Then there is task force bruiser and on and on. You were actually kind and limited your criticisms in my view. There is something very different in SEAL culture compared to US Army and Marine Corps culture. I think that's for a lot of reasons. Some that likely contribute to the differences are SEALs are the only ground combat unit in the US Navy ( yes they fight on the ground after swimming there commenters), it's an extremely small community, being a PT stud & having grit seem to be the main criteria for selection, and they select 18 year olds into SEAL units. SF on the other hand does not recruit soldiers until 21 years old & selects based not just on PT and grit but assesses and selects based heavily on psychology, maturity, judgment, and team cohesion traits. Also there was no progressive development of SEAL Teams from other ground combat units with their own discipline, history, heritage, traditions and connection to other ground combat units. SEALs went straight from UDT to conversion to SEAL units. Their units never learned the discipline or regimentation that USMC and US Army Infantry branch soldiers do. US Army SOCOM Delta, SF, and Ranger units developed from WWII SOF units that in turn developed from the US Army Infantry branch which is highly disciplined and regimented. The same can be said of MARSOC Raiders developing from WWII Raiders, Para Marines, and Scout Snipers, which were also built out of highly disciplined and regimented USMC Infantry units. SEALs developed their culture from a small group of hard drinking, live fast, bare knuckle fighting UDT Frogmen as the song goes. The unit members psychology and culture couldn't be more different. The unit culture and psychology SEALs developed is not conducive to the hostage rescue mission although for the direct action mission that type of hard charging aggressive mentality definitely can be. Building a disciplined and regimented Ranger type Maritime Warfare Brigade into the Navy similar to the Royal Marine Commandos for 18 year olds enlisting instead of pipelining them straight into the SEAL Teams would go a long way to improving discipline on the SEAL Teams, just like the Ranger to DELTA pipeline in the Army. A mature age requirement like SF and a Delta type selection process could be established in the SEALs and Team 6 selection to ameliorate these issues also. One problem in the SEAL community is the selection process comes from to small a pool of candidates, about 2000. So... the Green Team process you mentioned. The solution to that is not one that will be liked by the SEAL community but the one that makes the most sense is for SEALs to recruit, especially into Team 6 from the USMC and Coast Guard to enlarge the pool of potential operators with the proper psychology for the Hostage Rescue mission by over 230,000 potential candidates. These sister services are already under the Department of the Navy so this makes the most sense. There was a GWOT period program to bring 60 Coast Guardsmen into the SEALs that was stupidly stopped. It should have been expanded, especially into the USMC and made permanent. With respect I don't agree with your Sigma 6 comparison. Unlike the private sector redundancy is strength in the military. In the military redundancy is built into everything to increase survivability of systems, build reserve forces, replace casualties and to just simply have enough soldiers performing a task without getting burned out with tasking requirements. Plusing combat unit reserves up 20-25 percent over strength instead, to build redundancy and avoid op tempo burn out makes more sense in the military world than streamlining units and service members. In an act of supreme military stupidity the US Army eliminated thousands of Long Range Surveillance soldiers and the entire LRS mission, assigning it to SF to "eliminate redundancy" between LRS, SF and drones. So now allegedly the most deployed and in demand military unit, even in peace time, the SF ODA is supposed to conduct the recon mission for every US Army Division & Corps in war time that LRS units were tasked with. That is laughable, especially since once a major conflict starts SF ODAs are even more deployed. GWOT Vets know there were never enough soldiers in theatre, especially SOF units. It will be a disaster in war time and just like in Vietnam and post Vietnam we will be right back to assigning LRRP/LRS units to Divisions/Corps for recon as soon as the brass figures out there aren't enough SF ODAs in the Army to perform Division/Corps level recon Army wide and their SF missions. Also they will figure out unlike drones LRS units can't be shot down or jammed, they see across the battlefield on a plane instead of top down, drones can't recover personal, take POWs, perform raids, ambushes and sniper missions. This decision also eliminated the LRS pipeline of potential SF candidates with Airborne/Ranger/Sniper/HALO/SCUBA qualifications and initial enlistments by high speeds into "cool guy" LRS slots that potentially would have gone SF. In the end the Army lost vital capabilities that will need to be emergency filled in war time due to slimming down to eliminate "redundancy", and thousands of trained up potential candidate soldiers for future SF careers. I think your points are valid but in the case of the SEAL Team 6 hostage rescue mission the reforms mentioned can remediate the issue. Deleting valuable SOF units based on limiting redundancy is just going to decrease man power and therefore SOF unit missions that can be performed in turn increasing op tempo burn out. Great video. I'm more concerned about the stupid decision of the Army to eliminate LRS and task over worked SF ODAs and drones that can't perform the mission with the LRS mission. I'd love to hear your thoughts on SF taking over the LRS mission and LRS being deleted from the US Army tool box. Let the haters comments begin!!
Marine here, if anyone disagrees with you they're freaking wrong. LRS Companies absolutely should make a comeback, ESPECIALLY for the XVIIIth Airborne Corps. It would help ARSOF recruiting by providing them with another pool of solid candidates as well as help big army retention by providing studs with a cool place to go without going ARSOF should they want to remain conventional. When you look at the typical LRS "pipeline", it's pretty damn impressive for a conventional soldier and is probably the highest one can aspire to outside of attending RASP, SFAS, or OTC. Having more trained eyes means more assets that can help advise the ground commander on enemy disposition and aid in the recon/ counter-recon fight- especially when drones are grounded and poor weather prevents satellite imagery. Why not have all the tools available? Same reason MARSOC was made, because try as they might the GB's and SEALs weren't enough to cover every fid or hvt mission during a 20 year two front war. Imagine lsco.
@@cm-pr2ys A LRS senior E4 Is Infantry, Airborne, and Ranger qualified and a candidate for the LRS leadership course before E5. They had slots for sniper, HALO, Scuba similar to an SF Company. Basically they were the Army equivalent of Force Recon Marines. A soldier with such qualifications would be a prime candidate for SFAS with many of the post selection schools he would attend already being completed. It was completely asinine to disband them. As dumb as the Marines disbanding Scout Snipers. The US ground forces are stupidly being stripped of recon assets, recon skill institutional knowledge, and slots for high speed soldiers that drive enlistment and striving for excellence. I don't even know why any high speed would want to join the Army at this point unless they were going to straight to Ranger Batt or 18X. When LRS was in the Army it was a motivating reason to go Infantry to go to LRS selection and get selected for a LRS team. It was also an excellent track for a soldiers development that already planned on going SF. Especially in Army National Guard units without SF in their state. It was a big motivator to be a PT stud in Infantry units when they were around. Absolute all around idiocy they disbanded LRS. The word on why is an SF General running a war game simulator programmed the LRS units to run out of their recon hides and attack tank columns in suicide attacks that "proved LRS can't survive on the battlefield" ... even though their real mission is to hide observe and avoid detection.... all so SF can grab the recon mission for the entire Army... that they will never ever be able to perform... from the "conventional army" Ego, idiocy, deception and dick measuring that will get many killed in the next war when the commanders are blind by the weather, jamming and anti air and the drones are grounded. Instead that SF General just killed thousand of slots of potential highly skilled LRS soldiers from entering SF. Self defeating madness. In the end that general will be remembered in the next war for screwing the Army, and SF who absolutely will not be able to perform this mission and all their other SF missions at once.
@@JayZee-o9s You make don't very, very valid arguments and I think we'll potentially see LRS-D units come back because at the end of the day, men on the ground and eyes on target have abilities that drones never will. And as you said, SF can't do everything for everyone all the time.
@@azules9780 If the decision is based on personnel redundancy and not raising troop strength to fund both units the Army should scrap it's drone units and bring back LRS Companies and Battalions instead. Why? Because the Ukraine war has shown In an actual near peer conflict $65 million high flying, large, slow drones will be jammed, spoofed, or blown out of existence, and fast. They are neither survivable nor even operationally useful. This is the logic the US used to not send such drones to Ukraine. If they won't work for Ukraine in war time they will not work for the U.S in war time. The future of drones is massed swarm use of small, disposable, cheap drones built by the millions and destroyed on the regular. Integrating such small tactical drones for use by Recon/MI/LRSU type units is exactly what Ukraine does effectively. One is proven idiocy, the other is proven effective. The idiocy must end and LRSUs must return to the Army equipped with cheap, disposable tactical drones, because that's what works.
DELTA are not the best tier 1. Most are afraid of the water. Name 1 Delta mission done at sea, name 1. Most can't swim 10 yards. Tyler Grey made DELTA and he can't float or swim. Let that sink in, in why they can't replace DEVGRU. The only TIER 1 Maritime force that can strike from sea, air and land.
@@MVK_GS Nope. I'm a veteran in the Navy. 20 years in the Fleet hunting nuclear subs.. I just don't like grunts and their fans spreading misinformation.
@@slamdancer1720 who pays for it? The Navy? To train fully in the maritime environment especially Tier 1, you need a lot more than a pool and swim on the beach. You need full access and support from the Fleet and all their toys, ships and submarines, carriers, destroyers, and drill with them. Is the Army going to go to Congress and ask them to take off billions of dollars from the Navy's budget to give the Army's budget? Do you have any idea how the defense budget works in the Department of Defense? It's like the Navy going to Congress and asking that the Army from their budget pays the Navy to train Land/Sea operators on Army bases and instructors. It ain't happening.
So, you've come to this decision based on the success/failure of missions that all have been widely reported in the media??? Sounds extremely thorough.
The USMC has some of the best swimmers in all of the DoD (Recon, MCIWS, Scout Swimmers, Combatant Divers). SDV training is the one thing I believe that only Seal Teams specialize in and even DevGru doesn't do much diving or SDV time.
I want to know who the "Tier 0" group is, who doesn't write books, make movies, or blabber on the internet. I'm pretty sure they also exist. That's who I want to try out for! (at age 63) 😂
we should keep seal teams so we have guys that specify in water operations because even though most current wars have mainly been land based wars doesn't mean we won't encounter wars that may require this ability in the future adding a more simplified class to the delta pipeline is a good idea however ridding of seal teams entirely probably is not, just because delta took a dive class. considering most government agencies have a specialized unit it makes sense for the worlds most powerful navy to have their very own tier one unit the us navy is deployed all around the world it makes perfect sense for them to have their own teams that specify in sea based operations even if they largely do the same style operations as delta. in my personal opinion the more groups with their own specialties the better even if they overlap mostly in the same type of things having them as pros in their own field will make all the difference when that specialty knowledge is needed in a serious operation
@@tracphonevirtualmagazine Look up the history of the Marine "Raiders" Established: February 16, 1942 vs Navy "Frogman" Late August 1942. Marine Raiders were designated "Special Operations" from it's inception.
Navy Frogmen and Marine Raiders both got their start back in the early 1940s. Marine Recon started in the 1950s while the SEAL Teams started in the 1960s. SEAL Team 6 started in the early 1980s however MARSOC started in the mid 2000s. Just a lil info for everyone......
@justingause5501 Recon started during ww2. Official full time.units were formed in the 50's, however Recon Marines themselves began putting in work as far back as the 40's.
Beckwith was a very reckless officer, but his SAS cross experience did become something great. I went Army to AFSOC and got a broader picture, for example I planted the seed that lead to JTACs in every service instead of just Air Force, they hated me for it. The Army is sometimes in a bubble to other capabilities. I believe there should be more inter servive exchange of guys. Only volunteers and bachelor's, less distractions, and you need the open-minded guy. No one likes a cool guy who acts butt hurt because he does he is not where he wants to be. I would like to see an A-team made up of 12 guys from six units just to keep it real.
Got some like AI voice recognition hiccups, Mosaic instead of Marsoc, death group instead of Dev Group. Content seems realistic though, hard to argue the logic. I wonder if CAG would be spread thin doing maritime operations with the limited number of sabre squadron personnel? Worth some thought and discussion for sure.
He definitely has some kind of beef with them. This is the first time I have ever heard of any SOF operator from one group publicly trashing another group of special operators. He should be ashamed of himself. But I guess some people will do anything to come up with content that gets them more followers. What this guy did is disgraceful.
Nah, one of them killed an SF dude he knew though, in cold blood and tried to cover it up. True story, Logan Melgar. Sure, that's not representative of the whole, but then again maybe it is. What other shady stuf could they have done, but just didn't get caught for. They also left Chapman on a mountain to die by himself as well.
@@heartandmindovercome3214 you probably haven’t heard about the CAG guy that murdered his SF buddy at Bragg over a drug deal gone wrong or the multiple occasions the Unit guys and GBs have been caught working for drug cartels.
Half the " fuck ups" you attributed to seal team 6 was actually the regular seal teams that were on those missions. Seal Teams are overrated and arrogant but DEVGRU is the real deal. Your tier 2 army hater bias is showing if you cant admit seal team 6 is elite and you intentionally conflated the regular teams mistakes with DEVGRU to fit your narrative.
Idk like to see a fusion of CAG and ST6 that recruits from all branches. I think the separation prevents them from building a truly well rounded operator, and with respect to the SEALs would round out the force more through having a wider knowledge base to share. Also, imagine a combination of OTC and Green Team or whatever ST6 calls it that takes the best aspects from both courses. Wouldnt that be a sight to see? In a conventional conflict, the SEALs are probably going to shift back to more UDT style missions in support of the greater force- especially the FMF. Again, with respect to them, the SEALs probably would oppose the tier 1 merger because they love their brand and want to stand apart from everyone else the way the Marine Corps does with conventional forces.
I don't think a delta force scuba team would be equivalent to a Seal Team 6 Team. Because those guys basically grew up in the water since they joined the navy. They will have a lot more experience in the water. Most of these guys where literal Olympic qualifier, triathlete etc
Here's another question: why does Army Special Forces have a dive component when SEALs are already capable frogmen? And here's the answer, which is the same answer as "Why have DEVGRU when you have The Unit?" BECAUSE. That's why. There's a hundred reasons the services keep several first tier units when they could conslidate them into one. Here's my favorite. If for some reason one of the first tier units became corrupted, the others could be used to put them down. Without any other first tier units to pose an effective opposition to a unit like that, we could find ourselves in some trouble. It's kind of a dumb theory. But stovepiping is a rationale that has been used to justify the separation. In all fairness, you could make the same argument for the whole military. Do we need the Air Force to be separate from the Navy when they both run many of the same aircraft? Or from the Army, who have their own small air force already? Some countries have a unified military, but it doesn't really result in a superior defense. I could go on for hours about this, but in the end, the only real reason we keep our first tier units separate is because of custom and tradition, and there is nothing wrong with that. Esprit de corps is a useful tool. But it is just as fair to point out that Six has been seriously problematic and needs retooling. So I clearly have not solved the problem, but it is a very interesting problem.
Your assumptions are off. ST-6 has been doing operations on land, at the world class level. Recruiting has been open to MARSOC as well, no candidates have been successful. It is not who you know, you have to pass assessment and selection phase before going to green team. Red Wings was SDVT-1. OBL, ST-6 was chosen over Delta, because of the complexity and danger. Stop speculating. Put a shirt on as well, you look ridiculous. You wouldn't last 5 minutes in the teams.
Ive disagreed with Jay plenty here but saying the reason ST6 was chosen over Delta for UBL for any reason other than McRaven was commanding JSOC and it was their AO is absurd. And the true reason no one from MARSOC ever made it to squadron is simply because they werent SEALs and the guys didnt want them there. Had nothing to do with competency.
MARSOC Marines haven’t been successful at DevGru bc the SEALs won’t let them be for one simple reason, bc they won’t allow anyone without a trident to make it regardless if the tryouts are open to them or how good they are. They will always move the goal post if you are an outsider.
@@ssvd91 Nope, both points are not true. McRaven specifically pulled himself out of the decision because of that. His Deputy Commander and J-3 made the recommendation to him (personal conversation). The A&S process for Green team is very objective and has several protocols in place to address bias, to include peer surveys. The boys don't care about your brand, they care about performance.
With the world mostly covered by water, there is still a need for naval special ops regardless of tier levels and the navy funds their own services. There is much overlap between all of these socom elements and there needs to be ample overlap when you need to fight multiple fronts or wars as we did with gwot. During gwot socom was stretched pretty thin with the op tempo of two conflicts.
![🔴 ฟุตบอลแชมป์กีฬา 7HD แชมเปียน คัพ 2024 [รอบรองชนะเลิศ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zPm8ClLVhoE/mqdefault.jpg)
Good work Jay. All branches can try out for Delta. Add maritime component to Delta. One All Star time for a reason.
You. Youre another SEAL obsessed jealous ex girlfriend just like Jay here. You Marines can go either way. Caught between land and sea.
Why doesn't the Army adds amphibious training and replaces the Marines and make them all Rangers. ADD an anchor to the Army symbol. James you are such a jarhead. LOL
James you want the Army to train Delta operators in the Fleet and want the Navy to pay for it and give the Fleet to the Army? LOL The Army should pay for their own Fleet if they want to go in the business of maritime which Congress is going to laugh. Marines belong to the Department of the Navy. Marines are part of the Navy's budget. The Army isn't training Marines on the Army's budget. The Army wouldn't want to pay for the Marines training, would day? Without the Navy, Marines wouldn't have a quarter to buy a bullet.
Even the SAS that inspired the creation of Delta realized the UK needed a dedicated maritime special operations unit in the SBS.
The SAS has boat teams who train in amphibious warfare, yet they still see the need for full time specialists in operating in a maritime environment.
As a Marine Infantryman who served in the late 80s early 90s I have agree that the consolidation argument could be applied to
the Marine Corps easier than DEVGRU.
If the Army can maintain airborne Ranger Special Forces infantry and armored units with distinctive cultures, training, and traditions, why couldn’t we save the taxpayers some money and slide 3 Marine Divisions into Big Army?
Answer. Because those troops wouldn’t be Marines anymore than a Delta maritime squadron would be SEALs who are expert combat swimmers.
I'm no SEAL fanboy - but I think you need to look at it the other way. Why does Delta need a maritime component? The ocean is unforgiving, it will swallow you up and not even return your bones - you need full commitment to the domain. There's a reason the British SAS focuses on land operations and the SBS focuses on maritime - SEAL Team 6 needs to reduce land operations capacity and Delta needs to reduce its maritime capacity. TLDR they BOTH need to deconflict.
The SEALS can't even train their frogmen not to drown within 47 seconds.
That's not being heartless. That's calling out the training Pipeline.
Great points mate. I made the same about the UKSF before seeing your comment.
That makes logical sense. What Jay is saying has some truth but I think this makes the most sense.
I agree. You need a organization that has a a mastery of the maritime environment, and I think 20 years of the GWOT has stunted that capability from NSW. 70% of planet Earth is Water, and that is not a Army strong attribute.
SAS and SBS go through the same A&S.
Why not just have MARSOC guys do the antipiracy and UDT stuff? They're marines, riflemen.
Probably because the Navy receives 80-90% of the BUDs students when they quit or get dropped from training. BUD's is a great recruiting tool for the Navy and supplies the fleet with lots of sailors.
Navy seals are still a thing
Agreed!! The pride OF THE USMC clearly offended a bunch of people.
@@huntz7847 yep that's probably the reason cuz I've heard that if you fail BUDs at any point you basically get your mos reclassified into the needs of the navy and BUDs has like a 80+% failure rate.
Because we need out books and movies Todd!
In my opinion, spot on. Bottom line is Delta is a JSOC unit that pulls candidates from all branches. You get the best from all of the US military not just the US Army. Delta will get candidates that have a waterborne capability simply by allowing all branches to apply. Contrary to popular belief, the US Army has a waterborne capability. Your #2 teams and #5 teams in SF do that already. The key word here though is “joint.” You can bring in expertise from all angles…standing up a water component to Delta would be cake. They probably already have a waterborne capability…we just aren’t aware of it.
Actually Delta does not need JSOC to deploy...it's part of the Delta Charter....they deploy when the Pres. Of the United States says so.
I did not say anything about deployments. I simply said Delta is a JSOC unit. I’m just saying, doesn’t it make sense to pull the best of the best from all branches. I’m not trying to get involved in a tit for tat game here. All Special Operations units and conventional units for that matter have their studs and weak. If I were a decision-maker, I’d love to have the ability to have the pick of the litter from the largest pool possible.
@@markg-zm6npyeah your right. They were designed to be a stand alone force. They don't need jsoc or anyone else.
@@walterspangler3061and ya delta is smart for pulling from all and any branch thry want. Shooting the best from any branch. Which is smart
Task force bruiser
Your editor mixed up DEVGRU with Death Group
I noticed that too, it's DEVGRU or Dev Group for "Development Group"
Yeah having typos like 'Mosaic' for MARSOC and 'Death Group' instead of DEVGRU in big-ass graphics needs an editor fix before posting. Love Jay's content though.
Death group sounds bad ass though@@dboy1940
Everybody’s using AI spellcheck
yeah I was thinking its probably ai software making the subtitles or something
You started off the video by saying put your feelings aside.....then spent 12 minutes in your feelings lol
Thanks for the great laugh! I was thinking the same thing while I watched this agonizing whine,
Fanbois detected. Provide some Counterpoints. Or do. You have to tweet Jocko first?
😂😂😂
@@idrathergetaidsthangetwoke9145Lmaoo Ight this got me 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Quick question for you; If you didn't eat breakfast this morning, how would you feel?
Man, this cat wants all the smoke🤣, and I ain't mad at him...LOL
All of it!! But he brings up great points to back it up
@@rickeyrincones1769 no he really does not 😂🤣 he’s making his peers look really dumb and uneducated
@@travisharman8366that's where you are wrong. He does make good amd valid points and someone finally speaking up make the sf look good. There not just lethal, there also smart very smart. Way smarter then seals. That makes them a lot more lethal. Seals are just a problem. Delta could take there maritime work with ease. Even marsoc could easily take those responsibilities. St6 is pointless because we have delta. The regular seals ya maybe u could keep them. But that still doesn't make sense. There more of a problem these days then a positive. Marsoc could easily take there work. Now that the marines finally have there own sf group. They could take the maritime stuff and the seal can desolve along with there fuck ups and arrogant attitudes. And be replaced with pros
@@jermf35 did you work with the seals personally to say they are pointless, to judge we need to first work extensively with them to know their strength and weaknesses, if we do not then were just egotistical bastards judging only the negative side of things, Green berets have their own problems with drugs and human trafficking, it's just they are good at silencing their own members
If you dissolve Team 6, then that leaves Marsoc free to do all the maritime work that Marines are supposed to take care of. Semper Fi and bye bye Seals.
True and would also solve a problem JSOC has been having this what to do with the Raiders.
Depends if the Marines want it. Marines ceded that role and identity since WWII in favor of overwhelming combined arms for entry in a hostile environment. Then the previous Commandant reorganized the Marines for Wake Island 2.0 but with no islands near the threat China....
@@robertst.pierre1068 I always wondered if it would be beneficial to make DevGru as a SMU more like 24STS. Where you have PJs, CCTs, TACPs and SR all applicable to try out for 24. In DevGrus case you could have their organization and selection open to SEALs, MARSOC, Force Recon and Navy EOD etc. If the SEALs are producing some bad apples, pick from a another tree.
Issues.
1. Money
2. Barely any marsoc operators because of
3. Money
You're delusional.
Jamey Caldwell (Former CAG) mentions that he was in a water troop in the unit and trained a lot with DEVGRU and they were told to "slow down" or "pull back" with regards to their water ops capabilities as the powers above feared CAG would be stepping on DEVs toes Also, Colin Powell was planning on disbanding Development Group in the early 90s as his view of SEALs had been tarnished from previous run-ins. A successful key operation by Development Group in Haiti in 1991 turned the tide and prevented the command from being dissolved.
Who told you that nonsense. I was stationed on Dam Neck from 91 to 95, and I never heard anything like that. I don't doubt that COLON Powell is stupid enough to say something like that. I have never been a Colon Powell fan. But he would have to be 9 kinds of stupid to say that, because he would have known that nobody in power would ever support this idiocy.
If anyone ever did I can just imagine what politicians would hear from their constituents in the next election. "Did you vote to disband SEAL Team 6. And why would you or any of the others think this was a good idea." And they had better be able to say no and prove it. Because the American people consider SEAL Team 6 to be an iconic American Institution that embodies all that is good in America.
@@georgechristian3902 Sean Naylor - who wrote the book Relentless Strike....who knows if it's true or not....he mentions it in the book. It was actually General Garrison who said this..
@@georgechristian3902 . QUOTED FROM THE BOOK - Relentless Strike “Blue pulled it off, Bill Garrison was very satisfied and proud of the results, and defended Blue at the [Joint Chiefs of Staff] level the next time he had to brief them,” said another Team 6 officer. “That was a seminal event, no doubt about it.”
“If it weren’t for the success of that mission,” Garrison later told another officer, “SEAL Team 6 probably would have been dissolved.”2
@@MikSF123 Said what?
@@MikSF123 I don't believe it was true.
As for the CAG guys being "pulled back." Let me give you a little reality check. My wife worked at a hotel on the beach in Virginia beach. And every once in a while, very early in the morning, she would see a bunch of guys about 1/2 mile off shore swimming north. And they were all swimming with powerful overhand strokes, instead of using some other less strenuous energy saving stroke.
Sometimes it was just the swimmers. Sometimes there was a RHIB with them. And on the same day it wasn't unusual for people going to work at around 8:00 am to see a bunch of guys carrying fins and snorkels running south on General Booth Blvd, then running east on Dam Neck road towards Dam Neck base.
What she actually saw was DEVGRU operators swimming from the beach on Dam Neck Base, to Fort Story. Which is about 11 miles, and then running back, which is about 16 miles. And they did it all before 8:00 am.
As for the inflatable boat that was seen accompanying them every once in a while. It was there because those particular swimmers were trying out for DEVGRU, and some of them might have to be rescued. The guys who actually belonged to DEVGRU didn't need to be rescued.
And you think the Delta Force boys were being "pulled back" because their chain of command didn't want to make DEVGRU look bad. Right.............
Sounds like a case of someone losing and then saying they lost on purpose.
It's crazy how tier 1 operators never speak negative in general about each other, only talking about the bad eggs. Chris Vansant (delta) even complimented ST6 by saying that as the GWOT went on, Delta and ST6 became interchangeable. The brits understood that you gotta have a separate element that devotes the logistics and organization specific to the nature of the unit. Ain't that why other tier 1 elements exist? (RRC, STS24, ISA.) Delta has a recce troop, it has an intel squadron, and I'm pretty sure they could become a cct if they tried. But they didn't cannibalise them, because they know that if they spread it out, each unit can focus on what they do best.
never mind this fool. He was just a mediocre Tier 2 in the Army that couldn't make tier 1 or even get a contract after the military so he has to make videos bashing the Seals to pay his bills. I read this cat a while back.
First of all CCT'S are Air Force. And their training pipeline is much longer than any other SOF in the world. And Delta Force, like every other Tier 1 unit usually has a CCT along when they go on a mission. And since CCT'S are actually the most elite special operators we have, why would they choose to take a step down. CCT'S are the closest you can get to being Air Force royalty.
It's not crazy. Because badmouthing other SOF organizations, which are your brothers in arms, in public isn't very honorable. It's a sign that someone lacks character.
If CAG already recruits from other SOFs (Marines, Army, Air Force, Navy) just make CAG the only counter-terrorist group for all of DOD. Have a maritime element in CAG when needed from the SEALS who join CAG. Save lots of money, headache, butt ache, and red tape in the end.
I believe the Aussies did the same where the Australian SAS have a ‘Water Troop’ which specialises in amphibious assaults, reconnaissance and other waterborne missions.
Even the 2nd Commando Regiment have elements trained in maritime counter-terrorism (MCT), allowing them to conduct ship boarding, offshore assaults, and other maritime special operations.
Delta already has a maritime capability. Delta selection only conducts two courses per year, with 100 candidates invited to each class - Delta couldn't get enough SEALS to make it through their selection to maintain a full-time maritime unit, so they have to create their own maritime capable soldiers.
Plus, I think you're forgetting something, the SeAL acronym stands for Sea Air and Land, which identifies their capabilities, so there would be no need for them to go to Delta, because they're already trained in what they need to do, and so it would make more sense for SEALS to be given their own mission, which is why JSOC was created and is how most special operations missions are run today.
The commanders in JSOC should already be aware of each unit's capabilities and assign those units to the most appropriate portion of the mission for their capabilities.
With that in mind, I would say that Delta doesn't even need a maritime capability, and neither does SF, since we have SEALS, or Delta could request scuba teams from SF to accompany them on missions that have a maritime component to it, but I think it's smart for each unit to have whatever capabilities it believes it needs and probably cuts down on a lot of military bureaucracy which can often stymie missions due to politics, competition, etc.
@@americanosbadassius9292Seals are pretty good at maritime stuff since that’s what they are trained for. When it comes to thing outside they’re mission set that’s when they fuck up.
@@JoshuaBunkowske
I think SEALS should have an emphasis in the water, since they belong to the Navy.
SEALS are trained for missions in the sea, air and land can I have no problem with them focusing on those missions around waterways, etc. There's no reason why they can't be good at all three.
People are imperfect. Special Operations will be imperfect. Failures will abound.
@@americanosbadassius9292 Yes, for example VBSS or missions around with land around the water or infill by boat. They can be good at all 3 but not great at all 3 unless they get more training. Im not an expert but thats just the way I see it.
Delta has Scuba Capabilities. Seals have Land capabilities. Delta is the best on land . Seals are the best in water . A good CEO would keep Seals on water and Delta on Land . But if they found themselves out of their element they would know enough to survive. Like a Stand Up Fighter knowing enough grappling to survive if the fight went to the ground. The problem is. The Military told Grapplers ( Seals so to speak) Go fight a war where you can't go to the ground ( Water ) . 20 years of fighting out of their element exposed all their weaknesses.
Believe it or not large corporations have different groups, sometimes called Tiger Teams, that do pretty much the same thing. They have more than one, because if you only have one, there isno ballance mechanism. If the "only one" group came up with something. There wouldn't be anyone else with the skills, education, and experience to take a look at it should upper management want a second opinion.
If you are going to have a maritime component, have it run by your sea service: the Navy. That’s a proper implementation of Six Sigma.
try to explain that to an Army that can barely swim 5 yards.
Isn't that kind of what the Marines were created for?
@@slamdancer1720yes they were your right. Morsoc could take over the seals duties
@@jermf35I heard MARSOC was being disbanded.
2:13 "the british sas" is depicting 3 german officers riding horses probably during ww2
In my most humblest opinion (having been in the Navy and Army intel fields), I would say, yes, we need both for [atleast] two reasons: One, when any “outside” component to the Navy Fleet who train/fight in a joint scenario(i.e. Seals, MEU’s) they share a command. The fleet will take command until they get on station, and then the component command will take over the exercise. I would think there would be a more symbiotic relationship with the maritime forces than there would be with the land base forces. Two, with conflicts and wars ramping up around the world, why not have a secondary top tier component, especially one that’s maritime based? Taiwan comes to mind.
Your on the right track. There are a number of very good reasons for DEVGRU existing.
Feel like GREEN BERETS and NAVY SEALS are always saying negative things about each other, while MARSOC stays quiet…
Wrong. I haven't met 1 SEAL that trashes Army, not 1. Find me one on social media. They don't punch down. Meanwhile the GB that couldn't get a government or civilian contract after the Army needs to pay their bills and make countless videos. It's sad if you ask me.
That’s because they suck
MARSOC is fairly new to compared to the other two
@@Anzomax2Force and MARSOC same thing. Force not under JSOC, MARSOC falls under JSOC.
Except MARSOC based their unit on the US Army SF model ... so yeah
Fun Fact during operation blue-light they took SF guys who were in Nam to make a unit in SF, but CAG was made as a separate unit
I always thought they were a cool unit in SF. From what I read, before CAG would become fully operational, the army basically needed a unit to be their designated counter terror group, and Blue-Light was formed to fill that gap. Interesting little history in the special ops world.
Blue light needs to return to make CIF company better!
@@vincentmcgettigan7948CAG is 1st Special Forces OD-D instead of OD-A. That’s where Delta comes from
@@bakixavirists4561 Do they still have CIF? I heard SF did away with it.
@@vincentmcgettigan7948 nope
Jay - As a guy who volunteers with a nonprofit that serves SOF guys, I’ve had the pleasure of working with guys out of several JSOC units, including “the Unit,” “the Beach,” and that other unit in Northern Virginia that recruits a number of Green Berets. I’ve worked with these guys doing civilian business work. I’ve come to really appreciate and value all my friends from The Unit and The Beach. Generally, the guys seem cut from the same cloth: smart, driven, competent, humble, and capable. And, they are well educated, with Officers and NCOs with degrees from top schools.
Funny though, the Unit guys I work with could easily blend in anywhere. They look like soccer dads who do Cross Fit and run Spartan races. My friends from The Beach all look like they came from central casting for “JSOC Operator.”
What I will say is that in the line of work I do, I really see the applicability of FID and Human Intelligence experience. The SF guys I’ve worked with who have gone on to serve in an intel-focused JSOC unit or squadrons are absolute studs. And I’ve developed friendships with several ST6 guys who have done FID work and served in an intel squadron.
So, as a civilian who works with transitioning SOF guys on business building, I appreciate you all!
I spent 3 years in the 1st Ranger battalion. Later I was active duty in the Air Force at a school when I heard there was a Delta dude on base and looking for potential candidates. I found him and was told I couldn't go due to some trouble I got in when I was leaving the Rangers. Biggest regret of my life.
Lol, sure thing couch potato
@@mikes9012😂fucking savage
@@mikes9012Just cause you’re one don’t mean everyone is, Karen
@@jcdg0509 "i was almost a special boy hero too!!!" Want a participation trophy?
Thats gotta sting. But that regret can fuel thr journey ahead. Head high, its the only option.
Jay, love you bro. When Roberts Ridge happened MARSOC wasn’t around yet. The Red Wings mission is the one they took from the marines.
No feelings here. The philosophy is called COMPETITION, since you asked for comments. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I don't think he meant to say MARSOC
He said Mosaic Mission: min 7:00
Sometimes they mean to say force recon but say marsoc, I’ve seen it so many times.
No they weren’t around but that was actually a force recon job. Those are the ones who should have been handling it.
How many ODAs do we need? Marines didn’t even want to be apart of SOCOM until they were forced to.
That's not really true.
DEVGRU also accepts recruits from SWCC (Special Warfare Combat Crewman) for their Mobility Team, EOD, and SARC (Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman) accordingly. And Yes, being referred by someone is a big part of how they select those to try for DEVGRU.
Good points, but one thing I would like to mention is that everyone's job was different in GWOT compared to now. CCTs doing JTACing rather than Global Access stuff, ODA's doing DA, SEALs in the middle of a landlocked country, etc. I would like to think about how they would work when we talk about a full scale war.
The helocopter crash was on the 160th not the SEALs. (You can blame Extortion and RedWings on them). Heat islands develop over concrete compounds that rob the pressure altitude from the rotors in the hottest places in the world. They don't usually fast rope into the center of compounds. It was just the circumstances of a one of a kind mission. Not since the SonTay raid, where they just intentionally sacrificed the helo.
All these former SF guys do is hate on the SEALS. The US Navy is a vast organization deployed everywhere throughout the World. They need an autonomous Special Operations Force & even a Tier 1 unit. If the plan is to roll all of the Tier 1 capabilities into CAG, then it isn't actually reducing or streamlining anything. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having 2 similar Operational Tier 1 assets that can conduct similar mission sets,
This makes the most sense to me.
Ultimately it comes down to politics, having 2 units competing for the same job.. may not and has not always lead to the right team getting the job. If some big wig favors one asset over the other for personal/financial reasons.. guess who gets that job?
Also the sentiment about SEALs don’t just come from us on the Army side. I can wholeheartedly tell you that many of our foreign counterparts share that sentiment after operating with them.
@@islandswole9619 heard it from rangers as well. esp for team 6
@@chewinbubblegum2695 There is SBS and SAS, Shayetet 13 and Shayeret Matkal etc.. This guy just fights anything SEAL in all his videos
@@royalusala8527 well, he does have a bone to pick with them because 2 Seals killed his buddy on purpose to hide their BS so it's understandable
I’ll take Delta all day. Whatever Delta can’t get to, the Rangers will clean up. Get rid of the Seals if it’s going to be endless Marcus Lutrells, Jockos, Rob O, etc. they all blow
Welll said!
lol you could say the same thing about Tim Kennedy and other green beret influencers that dude is max cringe both units have their fair share of black sheep
@@Rusty.77Kennedy
Is a ballbag.
You’re correct.
You're knocking SEALS who wrote books or talked about their unit in the public forum. But kissing the ass of a guy with a youtube channel who can't say 3 words without telling you he was a Green Beret.
And quite frankly, the next time you feel like insulting the SEALS, or any other group in the SOF community. Do yourself, and the rest of the world a favor and just STFU. What do you know about any of it. Do you have any knowledge or experience in SOF. I seriously doubt it. And yet you still feel justified in knocking real warriors who earned the respect of everyone who understands what that word means. Clearly you don't.
Incorect, Robert's Ridge was in early 2002. MARSOC/Det1 did not exist until 2006.
If you want to know everything about seals and want to hear about them all day long, go to the army. I was sick of seals books but gosh this delta, sf, rangers guys really love to talk about seals.
They are Green with envy.... childish
Thats because Frogmen are at the top and these ankle biters will hate on them and talk crap about them all day long --- they are absolutely jealous of Seals. Some seals have podcasts and spread positive energy meanwhile podcasters like this one is the opposite - becoming typical
Here's a non-emotional unbiased counter argument, coming from an engineering (STEM) perspective.
Redundancy saves lives.
Sure in the corporate world, redundancy is avoided, but in engineering and any human activity where life is at stake, it is absolutely critical to have one or more fail safes.
For example, imagine getting on a plane that was designed and maintained without any redundancies (not mentioning any companies in particular . . . ). Imagine what happens if an engine fails mid flight? Similarly imagine getting in a major war, like taking on the drug cartels and possibly annexing northern Mexico, and then imagine what happens if your only DA oriented tier 1 unit has one or more mass casualty events . . . Both of these scenarios (midflight airplane engine failure and mass casualty events) have happened in the real world. If you only have one tier 1 DA organization, its going to take years to get it back to full strength, which will have both immediate effects on the battlefield and long term geostrategic consequences across the global (in the interim time).
Engineers develop systems and operate them with redundancies to prevent these events from becoming fatal. I think it is absolutely necessary that the DOD and government as a whole operate in the same way. I would go as far as to say that MARSOC should have a tier 1 element stood up as well, especially considering that the next major conflict could be with a near peer threat or with extremely wealthy and sophisticated organizations, like the the Cartels.
Redundancy saves lives. I appreciate the point!
It’s funny seeing tier 2 and 3 former operators talk about tier 1 units, never being there and knowing most of them don’t give a fuck about these type of dumb comparisons… legends of both communities have respect for each other as do most professionals in those teams
and yet Jay spent more time with Tier 1 unit than you could sniff in COD
The man’s entire brand is shitting on the frogs more than their scorned ex wives. I wish you could comment photos on here because the I could milk you meme would be perfect.
@@JamesonsTravels he must of not paid attention when he was with them then if he has an opinion like that 😂 but hey maybe I learned better on cod and he wasted his time in the military
@@JamesonsTravelsHey brother, “spending time with a tier 1 unit” doesn’t make you a part of said unit. A Green Beret talking shit about DEVGRU Operators is laughable. Jay doesn’t even have a seat at that table homie.
@@seraphim_eternalneither do you then, so you are on an even standing.
I mean there’s a reason why there’s Delta & Devgru. Same as the UK, they have the SAS & SBS. They can both do one another’s job but they focus on different mission sets. The only difference is SAS & SBS guys go through the same selection and they get to choose which unit they want to go to
There are many reasons for why we have Delta and DEVGRU. One of those reasons is that DEVGRU is set up to deploy anywhere, at any time, at a moments notice. They also have a lot fewer people than Delta, and their command is very isolated, and compartmentalized. Which means classified data is more controlled and fewer people know what's really going on with a mission. In short this means that DEVGRU is a lot less likely to have a security breach than Delta, or any other organization with a lot more people. Because when it comes to larger forces. There are always more people on the staff who want to be involved in the mission. And a number of them have very little or nothing to do with it, they just want to "be informed." Which is military speak for "look at me, I get to know about a lot of cool stuff that you don't because I convinced higher ups that I should be included in the briefings."
DEVGRU, along with everyone else who will be involved are also pre read into a lot of classified issues that might come up on a mission. They are all educated and trained the same which makes the team more homogenous. They are also qualified to do anything they might need to do to perform any mission, be it diving, HALO, HAHO, CQB, UDT, and every other qualification available in the SOF community. There are people in Delta who haven't been to Freefall school, are not trained as combat divers, and know nothing about UDT. And I'll guarantee you that nobody in Delta can even come close when it comes to dealing with maritime problems. They are all cleared for the same information and nobody has to be read in at the last moment. Which saves time and paperwork, cuts down on the time it takes to get them in the air, and makes it easier to tell someone who thinks they should "be in on a mission" that they are "not on the list." And leave it at that.
And then there is the fact that if you want a group of highly motivated, highly competitive men to always put forth maximum effort and try to do everything right, the most effective way to do this is to make sure they have some competition. Sitting at the top all alone has always led to complacency. Delta, and DEVGRU are always trying to outperform each other. Do you think DEVGRU would work as hard to be the best, if they didn't have Delta always competing with them, and vice verse.
These are just a few of the reasons that DEVGRU exists. Oh, I forgot the DEVGRU part. If you want to test weapons, the best way is to have some of the most elite warriors on the planet use them, and then tell you what's right, and what's wrong with them.
@@georgechristian3902 seals and classified data 😂😂😂😂😂 the moment they shoot someone they write a book or start selling shit
@@Swamp_Lad You have no idea of just how idiotic your comments are. Ask yourself this. Why do SEALS have Top Secret clearances? Could it be that SEALS are involved in a lot of Top Secret things? And before one of them can publish a book, they have to have reviewed by the government to make sure there isn't anything classified in it.
You in way over your head here. Next time pick a subject you actually know something about, if there is one, before you sound off again and further advertise your ignorance.
@@georgechristian3902 mimimimi mister I get offended at random trolls in the internet 😂 it’s not my fault your elite warriors can’t keep their jab shut
@@Swamp_Lad Ok Kotex Kid. Tell you what Come on out, and you can call me a random troll and tell me to keep my jab shut to my face . Or I can introduce you to some others and let you pick the one you want to stand in front of and Stttuttter before going completely mute. Because an apology of a man like you doesn't have what it takes to insult a man to his face. Now, why don't you go make sure you are well stocked with tampons and maxi pads, and then practice your pronouns.
Prance off now. Because I refuse to have a battle of wits with someone who is completely unarmed.
Have you considered how much Navy SEAL books/Movies contribute to the US GPD?
What’s a GPD? Giant Productive Dinosaur? Is it similar to GDP, Gross Domestic Product? Just kissing
you do know DELTA came out with the first books and movies, right? So did SF....hmmmm
Every video with over 20k views has SEAL in the title. You better thank them for their service!!!!!
"Why do we have a second place unit? Is it to make the Navy feel good about themselves?"
Oh man 😂. That opens up a can of worms
yeah hes just tryna start stuff at that point devgru aint no "second place" but let me stop because theyll say im glazing l.mao
Jay is mad he couldn't make it as a SEAL.. it's OK little fella
I heard CAG selection is just a nice nature walk, going from point A, to point B. Nobody is yelling at you, no hell week, no surf torture. You eat and sleep. You might have a hill or two to walk up. But the scenery I heard is beautiful on that nature walk.
This is an amazing comment. Sounds like you know a thing or two. I am being totally sincere
Lol
Yeah, I stopped paying attention immediately after this commenter wrote … “I heard!” 🤦🏻♂️
Sounds like you don’t know any former operators.
@@IndelibleNihilistexactly
You had me until you mentioned 6 Sigma. It's a failed business tool that my business has thankfully phased out.
Read Marcinkos book in jail two years ago and a book about the SF/ground branch/ delta during the invasion. S6 was created from Mobility 6 (MOB-6) as a water counterpart to delta force after the hijacking of a few ships, they trained exclusively on Oil Rigs in the early years.
They were created because of delta’s failure during the Iran hostage crisis. The White House was pissed so they had Richard marcinko create them.
I quit listening after he said "Guys!" for the hundredth time. And his analysis of the OBL raid is astonishingly idiotic.
he has to pay his bills. LOL.
He's not very bright is he.
Holy hell, someone finally said it out loud. This is spot on! 🇺🇸
I 100% agree and have for many year's. About time someone had the balls to say the truth. And of course it's this gentleman. I like his channel because he says it how it is and doesn't give a fuck if anyone gets mad. Just tells the truth. And that's refreshing
Why don't you have former Delta Operators like Tyler Grey , Chris VaSant, Kyle Morgan with former DEVGRU operators like DJ Shipley, Marcus Capone, Eddie Penney together to discuss the similarities and difference between Delta and Devgru. With all due respect you have no idea since the most you were, was a tier 2 operator that couldn't even get a government contract or private on your skills you learn in the Army after your discharge.
I love to see two way podcast. Put the person in the room with you and have a conversation. That's where the understanding happens.
I love both DELTA and DEVGRU, Special operations in general. Every time a special operations documentary came on discovery or the history channel, i was HYPED!! considering I only flipped burgers and pancakes in the Air Force LOL. When I met the CCT PJ cadre and students at Lackland and witnessed the indoc course in person ,It was like meeting michael jordan and the chicago bulls. I love all special operations units.
@@marcusmcclain5433This right here.
I bet he has a way better understanding then you do. With him being a former sf guy himself. You just can't stand that he said no need for team 6. When we already have the best in the world at it in delta
Amd he's right. We don't need a number 2 at it. Team 6 can go away know need for them. Amd marsoc cam take over the responsibilities for the regular tier 2 seals. They would get the extra training and could take there work. So many people who have worked with seals hate it and don't wanna do it again. Because of how unprofessional they are. When marsoc could easily do there job. Amd they need more stuff to do anyways. Seals have lose lips and are a problem. Lots of fuck ups by them many more that he didn't say too. Trust me he knows what he's talking about. And you don't. With all do respect of course
@@jermf35 don't bet, you will lose the little money you have. If he is so knowledgeable about all the branches, why couldn't he get a government contract or civilian after the Army? He has all these SF skills and he is making you tube videos to pay his bills? Yeah thanks for the laugh. If you want to know about the Air Force you talk to AF operators, the same with the Army and Navy and speak with the successful ones that they made the military into a career or got a government contract when they got out. The Navy from their budget has their tier 1. Army has their own, like the AF. No low level enlisted puke that is from another branch that couldn't get a contract after the Army is going to tell the Navy what tier 1 they should have. The Marines belong to the Department of the Navy, they exist because of the budget of the Navy. They both do different missions. Do you tell the Army to integrate the Rangers/SF together to save money. Do you tell the Army to integrate Delta with SF to save some money, We don't need 3. You know how dumb you would sound?
SMH.. you are so off base here. Why are you so emotional regarding SEALs? You spent 12 min, in this vid, and in multiple vids..being in your feelings..lol. A lot of unnecessary hate..bordering on jealousy.. But I am happy to come on your show and discuss.
Big time hatin wow can’t we all just get along this shit is ridiculous
No shit brother. Which organization were you with?
The real reason why from a former SOF and OGA guy here. 1 He is trying to gain followers to make money by any means necessary. 2 He runs a training business and is promoting that. 3 The wars are over and these communities are fighting for funds. So they will turn a blind eye to his behavior for their own gain with no downside to the unit. 4 He is jealous. Honestly it is probably a combination of all of these. What he fails to realize is in the long run all he is doing is screwing himself. Every community has bad apples. I can name guys from each community that I personally worked with or around that got sent to prison. The military is a direct reflection of society in every aspect.
@@BillyBob-wh8dh Nigga he's not jelous, Guy was a Green Beret himselt lmao man SOF dudes in general should stfu and stick to their lane.
Not me. This guy isn't very bright. And I refuse to have a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed.
According to John shrek McPhee, the unit doesn’t need JSOC to deploy, development group does. Not sure what he means by that but that’s what he said on one of his videos.
As of FY2005 SecDef Donald Rumsfeld revised, re structured DoD, tier 1, SOF units. Some 📂 groups were put directly under DoD, POTUS, DCI authority.
He means they have their own support that is already integrated within the unit. They are a standalone, fire and forget. Devgru is not.
@@azules9780thanks
Roberts ridge happened march 3, 2002 Marsoc was stood up feb 24, 2006
Devgru did not “big dick” that mission from them.
Bold argument. You're not wrong. DOL
Don’t the British have both SAS and SBS?
Yes we do, but we are very different in our selection and training.
@Abefroman-lq3md they've had a common selection for quite awhile in the UK...
@@rossg4788 I am referring to UKSF compared to CAG, not SAS compared
To SBS. I know they do the same selection up until the additional swimmer canoeist training the SBS finish with.
If Delta is based on the SAS, it makes sense to have a maritime element. A saber squadron in the SAS is made up of boat troop, air troop, mobility troop and mountain troop.
I have to agree here. Why have two units doing, essentially the same job, but in different organizations. Swimming is not something only Navy personnel can be trained to do. For those who do not know, two Navy SEAL teams and one SDV team (also SEALs) competed in the 2023 U.S. Army Special Operations Command (USASOC) Best Combat Dive Team Competition. Guess who won first place... an Army SF Team. My point is this: Collect all that talent into one place and get rid of the duplication of effort.
The Marines and the Rangers have similar capabilities.
@@dominysynclair Not even close.
@@donaldoshei9755 Just checkin.
@@donaldoshei9755who is better? I'm figuring the Rangers. But how about Marine reconnaissance or Marine Raiders. Which is the better of the three?
We were in group at the same time just different battalion. I 100% agree with your prospective on this. Delta was created to have a response jic an air intervention was needed but they aren't limited to that. The seals are very good but they are tier 2 like green berets that aren't in a CIF. Love the channel and how you are using the platform to help potential future green berets.I hope you are doing well and keep going brother.
Given this logic, should we maintain Raiders? Dev already has SBT personnel, and some Marines are also integrated into Dev. While I don't necessarily oppose this idea, I believe in the principle that "one is none, two is one, and three is better." Instead of eliminating these units, we should evaluate our mission sets more logically, recognizing that highly trained individuals are essential for success.
In my opinion, MARSOC should be changed to where it is a MAGTF available to SOCOM to command and control.
USMC didn’t wanna do the Raider thing. If DoD didn’t make them, they’d happily keep talent in the infantry Battaltions.
@@elijahullmann6231 I did my first 8 years in the Corps, I know they don’t like relinquishing control as SOCOM came up over the years, but never happened. Brings money into the Marines for improving operational capabilities, so not all bad.
SAS are the gold standard, yet they still tolerate, work with, and respect the SBS.
Fire the editor 😭 there is no way you reviewed the video and saw what they put on screen and approved of it
1. Excellent points about UBL raid… Burial at sea GMAMFB. 2. Every service has their favorite multitool, but only one can use 3/4 of the Earth as an aquatic drop zone. 3. You’re gonna need another jar.
He doesn't need another jar cuz lots of these comments don't make sense and there missing his points which are spot on. All CAG needs to do is add maritime to it and have a group that specializes in that and call on them when needed in the water. And when water missions aren't there. They stay with the regular delta guys doing land missions which are the majority of the missions anyways. Pr you could give the seal stuff to marsoc
He left out the SOF rescue of PFC Jessica Lynch and the capture of Iraq 🇮🇶 Saddam Hussein. Big ops for JSOC, SOF.
@@jermf35 I understand your point(s). CAG further modeled off SAS/SBS UK. Yes, Raiders could do the Maritime mission as well. USMC is under the DON. One question though, who would end up buying the hair gel?
"Feelings aside" - Makes totally good sense! Fat trimming time! Semper Fidelis
First off, I respect the hell out of you.
The best reason I can think of on why the US should not add a maritime capability to Delta is to look at the UK. The SAS and SBS I am sure work together, but the SBS maintains the maritime capability.
If the UK which has a fraction of the budget that the US does has decided that keeping the maritime component separate is a good idea there is a reason for it.
After all we got the idea for Delta from the Brits.
MARSOC needs seals budget and boom US SBS lol
the only people that get super defensive about seals which they never served as one themselves, are the ones stuck on seals from watching movies and video games. internet and social media culture.
or the only people making videos bashing seals are the ones that couldn't get a contract after the military and can't get a job and need to pay the bills.
I'm a Army veteran but not a SEAL or SF. If I had 20/20 vision, met the Army requirements, I'd be a SOAR, TF160 pilot 🚁 . In The Company of Heroes is a great non fiction book. Worth a read.
@@DavidLLambertmobile I served 24 years in the army myself and retired in 2013
@deathfire096 what branch did you serve in?
@@DavidLLambertmobile If I could join again and wasn't afraid of the water. I would try SEALs but at 22 or 23 years old and get some college but I would have to get a trainer to get me ready for BUDS and SQT. That Gold Trident looks awesome on the uniform.
“Delta takes all branches”. Because sf and rangers aren’t nearly as good as seals and some marsoc lol. Devgru FACTUALLY has more successful high end missions and has a MUCH wider skillset. I understand that seals have hurt you lol SAS even says devgru is superior to CAG. I appreciate that you keep trying hahaha
If you're asking that question, why do we need army infantry when we have the Marines. They can do twice the job with half the personnel at a quarter of the cost.
😊😅😂 Uh huh..🤣
So long as they remain near the beach. Away from the beach they depend totally on the Army for all support. History has taught us some pretty nasty lessons on this thought.
“Waste” as defined by the Lean management concept is “anything that does not provide value to the end user.” Redundancy, particularly in terms of critical spares, is not waste.
I’m both an army combat arms veteran and senior business analyst for F500 firms. I personally see a value in maintaining a second Tier 1 force, particularly in the unfortunate event that Delta incurs issues at some future point.
If Delta's the best, why do we need RRC, ISA, S24, Ranger battalion, SF groups, STS, SWCC, MARSOC etc. etc. Just have special components in Delta do it all. This guys logic.
Don't leave out JTF2 and E squadron! 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Well, coming from a Army SF guy that was never a member of CAG/DELTA or SEAL TEAM 6, your opinion DOESN'T COUNT!
He couldn't even get government contract with the DOF or private after he left the military but he has to pay the bills. Everybody is making videos from their basement. LOL
@deathfire096 this guy is a hater, a salty former SFC Douchebag. I've seen many in the Army like him over the years. The second this guy opens his fat mouth he comes off as belligerent. He's got a case of Napoleon complex mixed with he can't let go of his SF career vibe going on! Looks to me like he was a big mouth bad attitude nobody before his military service and again after his military service. Most of the former operator community want nothing to do with the guy because he's highly emotional, difficult to talk to, put people on blast on TH-cam and he's a very negative person and talks as if he's from the hood. He's got that big chip on his shoulder and likes to pound his chest about his career when there are hundreds of other operators that have done way more than him and they consistently have far better online presence and attitude then this clown does. Haters gonna hate!
It’s really hard to take you seriously when you put a picture of German Wehrmacht officers as SAS and DEVGRU as death group lol. That’s also not Marcinko.
He is being sarcastic .
I can see Delta Force/CAG/The Unit Operators having a maritime capability in their ranks after all a former Navy SEAL did become a Delta Operator
The more tier one units the better.. just like there are not enough Rangers from the battalions to do it all.. there are not enough anti terr operators if the shit hits the fan..
I agree 110%! I think all SOF direct action operators should belong to the Army. Like you pointed out in an earlier podcast, CAG can draw in operators from any branch of the military. I wonder how much it cost to maintain the SEALS?
These units are not redundant. Delta Force doesn't write dozens of books. Thus, Seal Team 6 has the non-redundant specialty of authorship and publishing.
lay off the glue. The founder of Delta, Colonel Beckwith started with the book writing with other Delta. Amazon has them for sell with a discount price. You look foolish. Everybody needs to pay the bills including Delta operators and the SF of this video.
Only an idiot would think that, since since ex delta operators have just as many book out.
There are just as many CIA books written by ex-spooks... Who cares... make the money
My opinion is Seal Team 6 is better suited for maritime situations, they have a place
10:50 John McPhee "The SEALS cannot deploy without JSOC, the unit (Delta) can.
th-cam.com/users/shortsXe2xRr4lBvo?si=VeVekLg0KkBFlr9L
It is a form of decentralization within a command (JSOC). Unless the Unit wants to take on potential maritime operations, you need ST6. ST6 brings a capability hat the unit cannot bring. Also, ST^ has been responsible for multiple HR missions in the last few years.
Last try integrating a tier 1 Army unit and a tier1 Navy untit. We cant even get them to go through the same Q course.
“Who’s gonna write the books?! And the blogs?!”
- David Goggins maybe
There have been books written by CAG. It's well known.
@@benhammerhead376 the correct humor in my comment remains.
With all the stories abut s6 breaking everyday and just the seal teams alone, this is a very valid point.
Your SAS picture is actually Wehrmacht guys.
Prussian cavalry, but I get the point. 🇬🇧
If you applied those same Lean Six Sigma principles to MARSOC, would you recommend eliminating them too? It seems that they have the exact same mission as the Green Berets. That would make for another interesting video.
Your criticism and point of view is completely valid. When talking about SEAL Team 6 Fck ups I was suprised you didn't mention Grenada and the ultimate fk up of a Hostage Rescue team, killing a hostage, Linda Norgrove the British Aid Worker, by blowing her head off with a grenade thrown by Team 6 operators. I wasn't there and I am not judging, war is chaos and things go wrong. However a hostage rescue unit that kills hostages it's sent to rescue? Not good. Then there is task force bruiser and on and on. You were actually kind and limited your criticisms in my view.
There is something very different in SEAL culture compared to US Army and Marine Corps culture. I think that's for a lot of reasons. Some that likely contribute to the differences are SEALs are the only ground combat unit in the US Navy ( yes they fight on the ground after swimming there commenters), it's an extremely small community, being a PT stud & having grit seem to be the main criteria for selection, and they select 18 year olds into SEAL units. SF on the other hand does not recruit soldiers until 21 years old & selects based not just on PT and grit but assesses and selects based heavily on psychology, maturity, judgment, and team cohesion traits. Also there was no progressive development of SEAL Teams from other ground combat units with their own discipline, history, heritage, traditions and connection to other ground combat units. SEALs went straight from UDT to conversion to SEAL units. Their units never learned the discipline or regimentation that USMC and US Army Infantry branch soldiers do.
US Army SOCOM Delta, SF, and Ranger units developed from WWII SOF units that in turn developed from the US Army Infantry branch which is highly disciplined and regimented. The same can be said of MARSOC Raiders developing from WWII Raiders, Para Marines, and Scout Snipers, which were also built out of highly disciplined and regimented USMC Infantry units. SEALs developed their culture from a small group of hard drinking, live fast, bare knuckle fighting UDT Frogmen as the song goes. The unit members psychology and culture couldn't be more different. The unit culture and psychology SEALs developed is not conducive to the hostage rescue mission although for the direct action mission that type of hard charging aggressive mentality definitely can be.
Building a disciplined and regimented Ranger type Maritime Warfare Brigade into the Navy similar to the Royal Marine Commandos for 18 year olds enlisting instead of pipelining them straight into the SEAL Teams would go a long way to improving discipline on the SEAL Teams, just like the Ranger to DELTA pipeline in the Army. A mature age requirement like SF and a Delta type selection process could be established in the SEALs and Team 6 selection to ameliorate these issues also. One problem in the SEAL community is the selection process comes from to small a pool of candidates, about 2000. So... the Green Team process you mentioned. The solution to that is not one that will be liked by the SEAL community but the one that makes the most sense is for SEALs to recruit, especially into Team 6 from the USMC and Coast Guard to enlarge the pool of potential operators with the proper psychology for the Hostage Rescue mission by over 230,000 potential candidates. These sister services are already under the Department of the Navy so this makes the most sense. There was a GWOT period program to bring 60 Coast Guardsmen into the SEALs that was stupidly stopped. It should have been expanded, especially into the USMC and made permanent.
With respect I don't agree with your Sigma 6 comparison. Unlike the private sector redundancy is strength in the military. In the military redundancy is built into everything to increase survivability of systems, build reserve forces, replace casualties and to just simply have enough soldiers performing a task without getting burned out with tasking requirements. Plusing combat unit reserves up 20-25 percent over strength instead, to build redundancy and avoid op tempo burn out makes more sense in the military world than streamlining units and service members.
In an act of supreme military stupidity the US Army eliminated thousands of Long Range Surveillance soldiers and the entire LRS mission, assigning it to SF to "eliminate redundancy" between LRS, SF and drones. So now allegedly the most deployed and in demand military unit, even in peace time, the SF ODA is supposed to conduct the recon mission for every US Army Division & Corps in war time that LRS units were tasked with. That is laughable, especially since once a major conflict starts SF ODAs are even more deployed. GWOT Vets know there were never enough soldiers in theatre, especially SOF units. It will be a disaster in war time and just like in Vietnam and post Vietnam we will be right back to assigning LRRP/LRS units to Divisions/Corps for recon as soon as the brass figures out there aren't enough SF ODAs in the Army to perform Division/Corps level recon Army wide and their SF missions. Also they will figure out unlike drones LRS units can't be shot down or jammed, they see across the battlefield on a plane instead of top down, drones can't recover personal, take POWs, perform raids, ambushes and sniper missions. This decision also eliminated the LRS pipeline of potential SF candidates with Airborne/Ranger/Sniper/HALO/SCUBA qualifications and initial enlistments by high speeds into "cool guy" LRS slots that potentially would have gone SF. In the end the Army lost vital capabilities that will need to be emergency filled in war time due to slimming down to eliminate "redundancy", and thousands of trained up potential candidate soldiers for future SF careers.
I think your points are valid but in the case of the SEAL Team 6 hostage rescue mission the reforms mentioned can remediate the issue. Deleting valuable SOF units based on limiting redundancy is just going to decrease man power and therefore SOF unit missions that can be performed in turn increasing op tempo burn out.
Great video. I'm more concerned about the stupid decision of the Army to eliminate LRS and task over worked SF ODAs and drones that can't perform the mission with the LRS mission.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on SF taking over the LRS mission and LRS being deleted from the US Army tool box.
Let the haters comments begin!!
Marine here, if anyone disagrees with you they're freaking wrong. LRS Companies absolutely should make a comeback, ESPECIALLY for the XVIIIth Airborne Corps. It would help ARSOF recruiting by providing them with another pool of solid candidates as well as help big army retention by providing studs with a cool place to go without going ARSOF should they want to remain conventional. When you look at the typical LRS "pipeline", it's pretty damn impressive for a conventional soldier and is probably the highest one can aspire to outside of attending RASP, SFAS, or OTC. Having more trained eyes means more assets that can help advise the ground commander on enemy disposition and aid in the recon/ counter-recon fight- especially when drones are grounded and poor weather prevents satellite imagery. Why not have all the tools available? Same reason MARSOC was made, because try as they might the GB's and SEALs weren't enough to cover every fid or hvt mission during a 20 year two front war. Imagine lsco.
@@cm-pr2ys
A LRS senior E4 Is Infantry, Airborne, and Ranger qualified and a candidate for the LRS leadership course before E5. They had slots for sniper, HALO, Scuba similar to an SF Company. Basically they were the Army equivalent of Force Recon Marines. A soldier with such qualifications would be a prime candidate for SFAS with many of the post selection schools he would attend already being completed. It was completely asinine to disband them.
As dumb as the Marines disbanding Scout Snipers. The US ground forces are stupidly being stripped of recon assets, recon skill institutional knowledge, and slots for high speed soldiers that drive enlistment and striving for excellence. I don't even know why any high speed would want to join the Army at this point unless they were going to straight to Ranger Batt or 18X.
When LRS was in the Army it was a motivating reason to go Infantry to go to LRS selection and get selected for a LRS team. It was also an excellent track for a soldiers development that already planned on going SF. Especially in Army National Guard units without SF in their state. It was a big motivator to be a PT stud in Infantry units when they were around. Absolute all around idiocy they disbanded LRS.
The word on why is an SF General running a war game simulator programmed the LRS units to run out of their recon hides and attack tank columns in suicide attacks that "proved LRS can't survive on the battlefield" ... even though their real mission is to hide observe and avoid detection.... all so SF can grab the recon mission for the entire Army... that they will never ever be able to perform... from the "conventional army"
Ego, idiocy, deception and dick measuring that will get many killed in the next war when the commanders are blind by the weather, jamming and anti air and the drones are grounded. Instead that SF General just killed thousand of slots of potential highly skilled LRS soldiers from entering SF. Self defeating madness. In the end that general will be remembered in the next war for screwing the Army, and SF who absolutely will not be able to perform this mission and all their other SF missions at once.
@@JayZee-o9s You make don't very, very valid arguments and I think we'll potentially see LRS-D units come back because at the end of the day, men on the ground and eyes on target have abilities that drones never will. And as you said, SF can't do everything for everyone all the time.
@@azules9780 If the decision is based on personnel redundancy and not raising troop strength to fund both units the Army should scrap it's drone units and bring back LRS Companies and Battalions instead. Why? Because the Ukraine war has shown In an actual near peer conflict $65 million high flying, large, slow drones will be jammed, spoofed, or blown out of existence, and fast. They are neither survivable nor even operationally useful. This is the logic the US used to not send such drones to Ukraine. If they won't work for Ukraine in war time they will not work for the U.S in war time. The future of drones is massed swarm use of small, disposable, cheap drones built by the millions and destroyed on the regular. Integrating such small tactical drones for use by Recon/MI/LRSU type units is exactly what Ukraine does effectively. One is proven idiocy, the other is proven effective. The idiocy must end and LRSUs must return to the Army equipped with cheap, disposable tactical drones, because that's what works.
Why not give the maritime CT mission to MARSOC? It seems like a mission that they want and are predisposed to.
Thoughts on the hate he is spewing can’t we all get along. ?
DELTA are not the best tier 1. Most are afraid of the water. Name 1 Delta mission done at sea, name 1. Most can't swim 10 yards. Tyler Grey made DELTA and he can't float or swim. Let that sink in, in why they can't replace DEVGRU. The only TIER 1 Maritime force that can strike from sea, air and land.
Lol... you're a teenager for sure. "Let that sink in..." lol. Hilarious.
@@MVK_GS Nope. I'm a veteran in the Navy. 20 years in the Fleet hunting nuclear subs.. I just don't like grunts and their fans spreading misinformation.
@@deathfire096 You just did. the idea is that they add a maritime component. The claim never was that all delta can swim.
@@slamdancer1720 who pays for it? The Navy? To train fully in the maritime environment especially Tier 1, you need a lot more than a pool and swim on the beach. You need full access and support from the Fleet and all their toys, ships and submarines, carriers, destroyers, and drill with them. Is the Army going to go to Congress and ask them to take off billions of dollars from the Navy's budget to give the Army's budget? Do you have any idea how the defense budget works in the Department of Defense? It's like the Navy going to Congress and asking that the Army from their budget pays the Navy to train Land/Sea operators on Army bases and instructors. It ain't happening.
“Let that sink in” was just perfect. *chef’s kiss*
So, you've come to this decision based on the success/failure of missions that all have been widely reported in the media??? Sounds extremely thorough.
The USMC has some of the best swimmers in all of the DoD (Recon, MCIWS, Scout Swimmers, Combatant Divers). SDV training is the one thing I believe that only Seal Teams specialize in and even DevGru doesn't do much diving or SDV time.
I want to know who the "Tier 0" group is, who doesn't write books, make movies, or blabber on the internet. I'm pretty sure they also exist. That's who I want to try out for! (at age 63) 😂
Ok, Billy Waugh, perhaps Tier 0 is Ground Branch, or perhaps it’s Treadstone.
we should keep seal teams so we have guys that specify in water operations because even though most current wars have mainly been land based wars doesn't mean we won't encounter wars that may require this ability in the future adding a more simplified class to the delta pipeline is a good idea however ridding of seal teams entirely probably is not, just because delta took a dive class. considering most government agencies have a specialized unit it makes sense for the worlds most powerful navy to have their very own tier one unit the us navy is deployed all around the world it makes perfect sense for them to have their own teams that specify in sea based operations even if they largely do the same style operations as delta. in my personal opinion the more groups with their own specialties the better even if they overlap mostly in the same type of things having them as pros in their own field will make all the difference when that specialty knowledge is needed in a serious operation
This is the content I'm here for lol.. MARSOC could do everything SEAL's could do, anyway...
Seals have been around longer than MARSOC.
@@tracphonevirtualmagazine are talking about regular seals or devgru?
@@tracphonevirtualmagazine Look up the history of the Marine "Raiders" Established: February 16, 1942 vs Navy "Frogman" Late August 1942.
Marine Raiders were designated "Special Operations" from it's inception.
Navy Frogmen and Marine Raiders both got their start back in the early 1940s.
Marine Recon started in the 1950s while the SEAL Teams started in the 1960s.
SEAL Team 6 started in the early 1980s however MARSOC started in the mid 2000s.
Just a lil info for everyone......
@justingause5501 Recon started during ww2. Official full time.units were formed in the 50's, however Recon Marines themselves began putting in work as far back as the 40's.
Beckwith was a very reckless officer, but his SAS cross experience did become something great. I went Army to AFSOC and got a broader picture, for example I planted the seed that lead to JTACs in every service instead of just Air Force, they hated me for it. The Army is sometimes in a bubble to other capabilities. I believe there should be more inter servive exchange of guys. Only volunteers and bachelor's, less distractions, and you need the open-minded guy. No one likes a cool guy who acts butt hurt because he does he is not where he wants to be. I would like to see an A-team made up of 12 guys from six units just to keep it real.
Got some like AI voice recognition hiccups, Mosaic instead of Marsoc, death group instead of Dev Group. Content seems realistic though, hard to argue the logic. I wonder if CAG would be spread thin doing maritime operations with the limited number of sabre squadron personnel? Worth some thought and discussion for sure.
OMG I couldn't make it a full minute in without commenting. I want one of those jars!!!!! 😂😂😂
Jesus christ this dude prolly got his heart broken by a SEAL.
Hahahaha
He definitely has some kind of beef with them. This is the first time I have ever heard of any SOF operator from one group publicly trashing another group of special operators. He should be ashamed of himself. But I guess some people will do anything to come up with content that gets them more followers. What this guy did is disgraceful.
That dude you refer to is an SF Soldier doubt it
Nah, one of them killed an SF dude he knew though, in cold blood and tried to cover it up. True story, Logan Melgar. Sure, that's not representative of the whole, but then again maybe it is. What other shady stuf could they have done, but just didn't get caught for. They also left Chapman on a mountain to die by himself as well.
@@heartandmindovercome3214 you probably haven’t heard about the CAG guy that murdered his SF buddy at Bragg over a drug deal gone wrong or the multiple occasions the Unit guys and GBs have been caught working for drug cartels.
According to Dale Comstock, a retired Delta operator, Delta out performed Devgru on everything INCLUDING swimming at the CT Olympics.
Dale has brain damage from taking too much steroids. How can he outperformed DEVGRU when he is afraid of the water. LOL.
Dale hasn’t been in the game in decades, and he is also a textbook narcissist.
You are right on. The Delta selection is the toughest in the world. Dale Comstock gave a good description of the difference.
Lay off the glue. Delta are afraid of the water and Dale Comstock has brain damage with all the steroids he takes.
Sounds like someone is jealous lmfao
By making this video he put a proverbial "target" on his back, but i love hos courage!
There isn't a target on his back he just spoke his truth..the navy guys can anwser those dishonoring opinions but he is right
Half the " fuck ups" you attributed to seal team 6 was actually the regular seal teams that were on those missions. Seal Teams are overrated and arrogant but DEVGRU is the real deal. Your tier 2 army hater bias is showing if you cant admit seal team 6 is elite and you intentionally conflated the regular teams mistakes with DEVGRU to fit your narrative.
Jay is right. There is a lot of controversy that comes out of the SEAL teams. You don’t see this with other operators.
Red Wings wasnt even a Team 6 operation. You dont know anything.
You are correct (About "Red Wings").
Idk like to see a fusion of CAG and ST6 that recruits from all branches. I think the separation prevents them from building a truly well rounded operator, and with respect to the SEALs would round out the force more through having a wider knowledge base to share. Also, imagine a combination of OTC and Green Team or whatever ST6 calls it that takes the best aspects from both courses. Wouldnt that be a sight to see?
In a conventional conflict, the SEALs are probably going to shift back to more UDT style missions in support of the greater force- especially the FMF. Again, with respect to them, the SEALs probably would oppose the tier 1 merger because they love their brand and want to stand apart from everyone else the way the Marine Corps does with conventional forces.
The CIA and NSA, NSC want to do that. 1 large covert, SOF unit. Air & marine assets 🚢 if needed. No regular army, no JSOC, no 🗃 , no hassle.
9 mins I’ll never get back … talk about putting emotions in a jar. For whatever reason, ST6 guys are in your head. 😂
So what you really want is a TV series called Delta force
I don't think a delta force scuba team would be equivalent to a Seal Team 6 Team. Because those guys basically grew up in the water since they joined the navy. They will have a lot more experience in the water. Most of these guys where literal Olympic qualifier, triathlete etc
@@didyouknowamazingfacts2790 What if the scuba team in Delta is made of Former Force Recon guys, SF Scuba Team guys, and Seals?
@@KINGRODP MIC DROP.
Delta has squadrons that are combat divers.
Olympic?😂 where did you get that?😂😂
@@dmfwlr264 a lot of dudes that went through BUDS swimmed most of there life and was pre-Olympic swimming qualified
How many SEALS does it take to change a light bulb?
Six. One to change the light bulb and five to do a podcast on it!
Here's another question: why does Army Special Forces have a dive component when SEALs are already capable frogmen?
And here's the answer, which is the same answer as "Why have DEVGRU when you have The Unit?"
BECAUSE. That's why. There's a hundred reasons the services keep several first tier units when they could conslidate them into one.
Here's my favorite. If for some reason one of the first tier units became corrupted, the others could be used to put them down. Without any other first tier units to pose an effective opposition to a unit like that, we could find ourselves in some trouble.
It's kind of a dumb theory. But stovepiping is a rationale that has been used to justify the separation.
In all fairness, you could make the same argument for the whole military. Do we need the Air Force to be separate from the Navy when they both run many of the same aircraft?
Or from the Army, who have their own small air force already?
Some countries have a unified military, but it doesn't really result in a superior defense.
I could go on for hours about this, but in the end, the only real reason we keep our first tier units separate is because of custom and tradition, and there is nothing wrong with that. Esprit de corps is a useful tool.
But it is just as fair to point out that Six has been seriously problematic and needs retooling.
So I clearly have not solved the problem, but it is a very interesting problem.
Very true. This argument can roll into why have a Marine Corps?
You forgot the Grenada Seal fuck up and Panama fuck up ! lol 😂
Your assumptions are off. ST-6 has been doing operations on land, at the world class level. Recruiting has been open to MARSOC as well, no candidates have been successful. It is not who you know, you have to pass assessment and selection phase before going to green team. Red Wings was SDVT-1. OBL, ST-6 was chosen over Delta, because of the complexity and danger. Stop speculating. Put a shirt on as well, you look ridiculous. You wouldn't last 5 minutes in the teams.
Ive disagreed with Jay plenty here but saying the reason ST6 was chosen over Delta for UBL for any reason other than McRaven was commanding JSOC and it was their AO is absurd. And the true reason no one from MARSOC ever made it to squadron is simply because they werent SEALs and the guys didnt want them there. Had nothing to do with competency.
MARSOC Marines haven’t been successful at DevGru bc the SEALs won’t let them be for one simple reason, bc they won’t allow anyone without a trident to make it regardless if the tryouts are open to them or how good they are. They will always move the goal post if you are an outsider.
@@ssvd91 Nope, both points are not true. McRaven specifically pulled himself out of the decision because of that. His Deputy Commander and J-3 made the recommendation to him (personal conversation). The A&S process for Green team is very objective and has several protocols in place to address bias, to include peer surveys. The boys don't care about your brand, they care about performance.
With the world mostly covered by water, there is still a need for naval special ops regardless of tier levels and the navy funds their own services. There is much overlap between all of these socom elements and there needs to be ample overlap when you need to fight multiple fronts or wars as we did with gwot. During gwot socom was stretched pretty thin with the op tempo of two conflicts.