Here's Why Most Army Rangers Never Make it to Special Forces Selection
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Thanks for watching everyone. You can watch the full episode with Joe Kent here th-cam.com/video/MyDy6rreaJk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=iaCPMqEt7OFAIEUN Additionally if you want to support the Shawn Ryan Show you can join the community. www.patreon.com/VigilanceElite
Less diversity
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JESUS Loves you
I love you how post the full episode in the comments! Makes it super convenient. Thanks!
My Dad was retired SF, then started working at Bragg at the Special Warfare Center. I knew he was involved in the Q course, fourteen years after his passing I found out he was a Guerilla chief.
Your dad sounds just like a SFC on the cadre staff at my university ROTC department, 1980/81. He was SF, retired to Ft. Bragg and became a guerrilla at the Q course. Great trainer of cadets.
I'm curious, what do you mean by "Guerilla chief"?
@Durzo1259 One of the phases of the Q course is Robin Sage, a massive field training course. It has hundreds of participants and covers over ten North Carolina counties. Students infiltrate the fictional country of Pineland, where they meet local guerrilla forces. The students advise, train, and assist the guerrillas. Those playing the guerrillas have specialized roles, some of which are former Green Berets. My Dad played the role of a guerrilla chief. On another podcast, Chris VanSant talked about a real-world situation that reminded him of a scenario in the Q course.
@@davidcooper4533that’s sooo bad ass.
@@dh5516Did your ROTC have a Recondo course by any chance?
There were at least 5 rangers at selection when I went through. Started out with 450 guys and 62 of us selected.
If I remember correctly, 2 guys in my inf. platoon were 21 day non-selects. 1 of the two ended up getting a second shot and made it through. The mental fortitude to put yourself through it twice....
Couldn't imagine! @@robthaham3408
You're a G brother thank you for your service.
Joe Kent is a good man. I remember after I graduated the SFQC, I showed up to 5th Special Forces Group at Fort Campbell, KY in May 2004 and Staff Sergeant Joe Kent was one of the first people I met before I got chewed out by the Command Sergeant Major’s for being a new guy. It was a tough crowd there. “Strive for Perfection to Achieve Excellence.” Joe had already earned his Scuba 🤿 badge and much more.
What was the pretense for chewing you out?
@@JohnDoe-bi5cc CSM Bell being CSM Bell. If you know that man. He has was notorious for fixing everything with everyone, tactful- good man!
This brought back memories. I was a 1LT Leg Rnger in Airborne school on 911. They brought in a a TV just like your guest said. 23 years later and I can still remember watching that 4" Sanyo TV. I'm from NYC so the Black Hats had me draw a map of Manhattan and explain where the twin towers were. Served with 20th Group in Afghanistan. RLTW/SE and DOL
Similar but not as dramatic as 9/11...I was a private right out of Basic and AIT at Airborne School in December of 1989. They were trying to get us graduated and out for the XMAS exodus. So we jumped multiple times on Monday. I jumped 4 times that day. The next day we sat shivering at the airfield but weren't allowed into the shack for rigging up for our final static line jumps. Trucks showed up and black and green berets started working their way into the hangars. Then an Air America civilian airline landed and taxied up to the hangars. At that point they sent us back to the barracks. The next morning we watched the invasion of Panama on the day room TV. We got birds back a couple days later (I think on 12/22) and I got my 5th jump to graduate. I think I flew home on 23 December for XMAS with orders for Germany.
@@chrishooge3442 One of my buddies from OCS/IOBC, Chris Rice, jumped into P'ma. I beleive he was with 2nd Batt. It's funny how the dates change but the stories stay the same. If it were up to me I'd put a 4 inch Sanyo TV in every Day Room on Every Base. LOLOLOL. BTW My 5th jump was a doozy. Broke everything in my right ankle. Hospital Grad. LOLOLOL Cheers, CPT Christopher "Chris" F. Sheridan. 20th SFG (Ret.)..
I was an 18B guy also coming from an infantry battalion. It's definitely the easiest and fastest way out of the Q, at least for me it was. Went on to the 10th SFG and we had quite a few guys from the Batt with us there. Love hearing how circumstance and chance takes other guys in different directions, I find it fascinating.
I like you was also from an infantry battalion, airborne, with Ranger Tab. Was with the 10th in the early mid 70's in Germany 18B.
If you go to selection from Ranger Bn, you will get fired from your position and pull staff duty every weekend until you PCS to the Q course.
I went through SFAS twice coming from Batt. Physically smoked it both times. 21 day nonselect for being “Too Rangered Up” the first time. A death sentence for a Ranger Batt guy. Went back 10 months later successfully and they pretty much encouraged that same ruthless behavior, although I played the grey man. I hardly said a word.
It’s a flip of a coin.
Once GWOT was in high gear the Q-Courses became shortened and slightly less selective.
Peacetime is probably the most difficult time to go through the SF pipeline.
So you were too high speed the first time?
I'm a former Marine (1995-1999) and you are 100% correct about peacetime difficulty. In both training and especially promotion... unless you are female, I noticed after September 11th, it seemed like the rank of Sgt became like something they just started giving away to make service members "feel" important. It took me a year just to qualify to get in. And I spent like 2 and a half years as an E-3. E-7 was really difficult to get and a lot of guys did 20 years and retired at E-6. When I saw the Marines that tragically lost their lives at Abbey Gate, I could not help but notice that like all the females were Sgts and most of the males were E-3 and below. Reminded me of seeing the NAVMC memorandum back in 1997 that told everyone that was putting in promotional packets SGT and above to specifically NOT check the box for female if you were male.
Damn this motivates me to go again. too bad its 8 years later 4 years of PT and power lifting and it wasnt too crazy people couldnt believe I kept getting through. I don't look like I lift because I train purely strength not size.
@@lerodman That's the right way to train. I'm almost 50 now and pretty much the same size I was 25 years ago. You'll be healthier and live longer too. A couple of years ago, I was watching a 25th anniversary special on the movie "Pumping Iron" and they were interviewing most of the bodybuilders from the film. AND...Scwarzennegar and Ferrigno were the only two out of like 10 whose large physiques had not deteriorated with old age. Crazy when you see someone who used to be your size who outweighs you by 100 pounds or more years later.
sounds like you got peer’d out
I was in that same SFAS class. We were taking the psych tests in the old auditorium when we were told about the attacks of 9-11. The cadre did tell us that if anyone's unit got orders to deploy, they would be allowed to go and then return to SFAS. Also, nobody who had family in NYC and was allowed to call them was able to actually get through. All the lines were busy, and no one got through.
I was there, but in the Q course at the time. The cadre told us that we should stay in the course.
@@MVK_GS I worked for a telecom company during 9/11 and heard about the system being overwhelmed. That’s probably the most usage to date.
It's crazy to think he had already been in Ranger Battalion and was going through SF selection in 2001. I remember being in 8th grade and the teachers turn on the TVs when the attacks happened.
I was 8th grade too, tv was on for maybe 5 min tops, head math teacher (it was a common core of classes) got upset it was interrupting math classes, so he turned tv off and told the hundred of us this [9/11] will not impact our lives. Meanwhile, at that moment the 2nd plane just hit, making it crystal clear it wasnt some accident.
Flash forward 9 years, i went to iraq. So i think my life got somewhat impacted 😂
Your teacher sounds like a gay 😂
Yah he doesn’t look very old
thats how age works...
@@emillyyelen5169 We see
I was a Marine SNA eating in the DFAC at NAF El Centro, preparing for the mornings weapons flight to loom lobby. Watching the planes hit the towers on the TVs inside the DFAC. Then being told all training flights are canceled because everything in the US was grounded. I never did see action in Afghanistan, but did fly 200 combat missions in Iraq as a USMC Hornet pilot.
What was the most difficult situation you had to get yourself out of (if any) in your Hornet as a U.S Marine Pilot?
@@SethingtonIII
Probably having as much naps and food and screwing all the female admin staff in Cyprus lol
I was FDNY at WTC. It meant a lot knowing my military brothers were very pissed and had our back.
@@tjh315 F-ing Eh!
That’s badass
My brother went to 2nd Ranger Battalion to eventually get into 7th Group. He had that plan before he left for boot camp in ‘94. Did 20yrs and 5 marriages.
Damn, 5 marriages. Your brother has seen some stuff. Did he ever find the one (wife who stuck around)?
@@Bob-kk2vg he’s with her now. They got together after he retired.
@@In_and_ouTs nice! Glad to hear he found someone.
That’s a lot of spousal and child support. Just some of the Things they don’t tell you about the life.
@@newagain9964 only one child and only one of his exes really took him to the cleaners. It wasn’t even the baby mama either. Actually the shortest marriage cost him the most somehow. He’s doin good now. Thanks to him I never even entertained marriage until after my enlistment was over.
Rangers going SF was really only somewhat frowned upon during GWOT. 75th was getting deployed heavily and were extremely active. Every night is a direct action raid and it takes a certain person to do that over and over. Regiment IS NOT laid back by any means and you have to fight to stay there. If you went SF, you got a two year "break" and could probably stay SF the rest of your career whereas Rangers would have to leave to promote and fight to come back to Regiment. You could deploy with SF to just work with foreign militaries and not break your body so badly where Rangers only go to combat theaters, at least for the past 20 years
I was regular army in the early 1990s and the word was that the Ranger Battalions had extreme attrition due to physical issues. People were injuring their knees, hips, and backs. So a constant rotation of personnel through the unit. I knew at least one Ranger NCO that ended up in our regular unit while he convalesced from a back issue. Meanwhile, in my regular unit at some point contact sports like football were banned to keep the injury and profile numbers down.
That's literally the dumbest shit I've ever heard. SF was deployed far more than the Rangers. Basically the Rangers carried the ladders for Delta, and cordoned off the target area.
RRC is generally the guys who failed Delta Selection or OTC and came back to the Regiment.
@@MB-zd2ellol your funny
Interesting to hear his perspective on being in selection and not wanting to miss out on combat.
On 9/11 I was just back from the field problem in Fla phase of ranger school. The whole place started buzzing we knew something was up. They bussed us back asap and a few weeks later we (3rd batt) was in Masirah getting ready for rhino
6:57 I know one of the “men on horses” men. You would never guess that he was Delta back in the day. He is very quiet and kind.
I was in the same frame of mind about missing out. I was in basic training when Panama happened, got stuck in Germany during the Desert Shield/Storm, never got sent to Africa & got out right as the "Black Hawk Down" incident happened. So after 9/11 I went to the recruiter to see about getting back in & he said I'd been out over 5 years so I'd have to do basic, AIT, jump school all over again so I figured by the time I got through all that & got to a unit that might be about to deploy, the war would be over so I said fuck it. Who knew.
They really make you do all that again? Because you can join at like 34 for a 10 year career track to become a Delta commander, crazy to think they would make someone do all that again after only 5 years. Marine Bootcamp gets a lot of credibility because they would never ask a Marine to boot up again lmao. Also my CPL in Iraq was out for 20 years and came right back in and was super helpful with all his construction knowledge. We were out on a FOB with 30 guys for weeks at a time as engineers. I get jump school and other qual courses but basic and AIT again seems crazy.
Maybe you were never meant for war. Who knows, you might have got shot or blown up and lost a limb. God was watching over you
If you want war, you can join a foreign legion or join an active pmc
Sometimes it’s the recruiter. When they process a prior service, it doesn’t go towards their quota, so they’re not all that willing to help you reenlist. I found that out the hard way myself trying to go back in. It was told they weren’t taken prior service when it wasn’t true. I had a friend who did and he told me what I just shared with you.
It all depends on the recruiter you talk to, and your MOS. Some of them don’t like dealing with prior service because they don’t get as much credit for their goals/quota, and another asked a friend: “How soon can you ship out?”
There is a 3rd option not talked about much and that is the Regimental Recon Company. It is a JSOC unit of Rangers who do Recon and other Operations. It is an in between stop to Combat Applications Group or Taskforce Orange.
It is true, if you leave the Regiment for a lesser unit you are viewed as a traitor.
You see a lot od 8 to 10 year guys. They make staff sgt, realize they aren't going to make E7 so they just leave, especially since you can make triple as a Private Military Contractor or as a member of the CIAs Global Response Staff member.
Sof is where I met the majority of them.
RRC isn't tiered dude... it's no different than any other company in the regiment
@@BangHammers I've never heard that, I've always read lit that they've become de facto a part of JSOC and tiered
@@BangHammers RRC is tier 1. Delta, Devgru, 24 STS, Army ISA and RRC are the units that make up tier 1.
@@BangHammersbang hammers ! With the homies !
Some of the stories the guy's tell are heartbreaking. So it's nice to see them having a laugh once in a while.
I was at Fort Bragg when 9/11 happened. It's cool that this warrior and I were at the 'center of the Army universe' at the same. time. Also, I know what he means when he was concerned with missing out on the combat deployment. Iraq invaded Kuwait while I was in basic training and all of us were told that we would die if we didn't pay attention to our training. Sure enough, I was sent to Korea for my first assignment and stayed there for 18-months watching Desert Shield/Storm on CNN. When I left for Fort Bragg, everyone around me were combat vets and I had been in the Army for two years but still looked at with far less respect.
I was in the same SFAS class and the day we came into Fort Bragg for the swim test, (there was no swimming pool in Camp Mackall back then), it took us two hours just to get through the gate. It was backed up for miles due to the increased force protection posture.
When did the pot store in the middle of Bragg open? Probly dress stores now.
I was there at the same time. Didn’t make it to work on 9/12 because Bragg Blvd was bumper to bumper with 100% vehicle inspections. Sat in line for hours and ran out of gas. Suuuuuucked
I was in AIT when Panama happened, so when I got to my first unit, everyone was telling war stories. As soon as someone left the room, the real story would come out. 😂
I spent about five years in the special forces in the Salvation Army. Xmas was hell.
I went through selection in 1999, and it's interesting that his hardest part was being alone. I was a sniper going in as I was always alone in the woods so that was super comfortable. Just hard. Team week was much harder for me. Freaking body just came apart.
same here
I worked with some snipers, never saw a sniper without a spotter.
I strongly recommend this episode. Dude has done some incredible shit and suffered horribly. What a warrior.
He also supported traitor Trumps efforts to overthrow a free and fair election, a gross betrayal of everything he is supposed to stand for
Did Robin Sage 2x it was awesome both times coming from an mechanic 3rd shop to go play in the woods for 2 weeks with SF trainees and Cadre was one of the coolest things I did in my time in the Army
I went through SFAS back in Feb 07. We started out with 330 plus candidates and graduated with 181.
Yup. War is the easiest time to make selection.
I went through selection with several Ranger Bn. guys, and I would say attitude was a common problem for them. For example, we finished the 12 mile ruck and one Ranger Bn. guy was getting his ruck weighed by cadre, he was told his ruck was light, the guy lost it and started yelling, then the cadre turned the scales so he could see he was not light at all, that alone earned him the eject button.
I was 3 years old when my mom found me on our couch in the living room seeing the news on 9/11. I joined the army in 2017 and it's wild to think about going through all of that in preparation to respond to an actual attack. It's no wonder so many legendary dudes are surfacing from the war now, the motivation to go into combat and actually answer the call is so much different from the culture and mentality today. It's messed up I know, but I really wish I would have been around to see it, not the tragedy but the country pulling together afterwards and the inspiration it provided Americans to do great things.
Dude, thanks for your service, 9-12-01 was literally the most patriotic day of my life! I was in 9th grade it was really surreal to have lived during that time and be just old enough to understand it.
I joined in 2005 11 bravo, Iraq was a strange place back then. ROE changed and felt like sitting ducks.
@@cavebeast540 In Afghanistan 2018 we were staring face to face at confirmed Taliban probably between 2 and 300 meters from our spot. In the open. With their AKs. Somewhere they really weren’t supposed to be. Had a 240 trained on them and couldn’t do anything and I’m pretty sure they knew it because they just stared right back.
Granted this was only because of where we were and the capacity we had to do something is what I’m told. Can’t really get into details I don’t think. Most of which is speculation at best anyways.
The patriotism was loud but it took little time until the civilian world ceased to care (until the final withdrawal). The MILITARY (and some related personnel) did great things but it wasn't all "great" by a long shot. That's why even the Pyrrhic victory in Iraq was a waste of American blood and treasure (and stole focus from A-stan further ensuring failure of that foredoomed mistake). The best fighters in history cannot change local national priorities. Nothing was learned so like the Southeast Asia War Games it only takes the old vets leaving government to restart the "foredoomed constabulary mission" clock.
He’s right.. you used to either go to D Fo.. or get a DUI.. those were the only accepted reasons to leave Ranger Regiment. I got a DUI, but since I magically didn’t get in trouble (except being told I had to leave)..I went to SFAS.. but some hardcore Regiment personalities just immediately weren’t friends with me anymore.. good friends right?
It’s such a ruthless organization. I experienced the same thing. I will always commend the regiment for maintaining its meritocracy where your job is never fully secured and you have to continue to prove yourself everyday, especially considering that I think it’s kind of easy to get comfortable and lose your edge in SFG. But there really is no “brotherhood” like they always preach. Once you fall off that 120 mph train, you’re dead to everyone who is still on it.
This is what I heard when I was in Ft Benning as a leg 11B back in 84 and 85, I wanted the tab but wasn't willing to risk losing that brotherhood when I moved on. I knew back then that I wanted a combat MOS under my belt before going to healthcare after a few years. It worked out good for me, but as I'm older, I kinda wish I tried.. but amazingly, I'm still in, reserve now. I can do another 5 years, 7 with age waiver... I won't retire a day early because of the camaraderie I enjoy, despite how things have changed over the decades
@@JG-od3xy Scroll. Ranger scroll. That is the unit patch of the 75th regiment. The 75th regiment (Rangers) is where you go when you pass RASP. Ranger regiment is a way of life. Ranger school is a very rigorous 9 week leadership school, upon completion of which you are awarded the yellow and black Ranger tab and sent back to whatever unit you came from. You can be kicked out of ranger regiment for a number of things but once you earn the ranger tab from Ranger school it is yours to continue wearing above your current unit patch.
TBH; if a country has military that hasn’t gone to war for a long time, it most probably means that their politicians have done a good job preventing war. And although it may break the dreams of some guys of testing themselves into real combat (with all its consequences), a greater good has been achieved. As Klausewiz would say, war is the last extension of politics.
Well said
USA is rarely war/conflict free.
Former 10TH SFG here and we had a ton of Batt boys in my company! Haha!
How did they compare to 18Xs or regular soldiers trying out for SFAS?
What years were you stationed at 10th Group at Ft. Carson?
@@jameswilliams2517 05-11'. B/2/10, and C/2/10 for short stint when they were standing up the CIF. Many years ago now...lol.
Infantryman, especially ranger batt are always going to have a leg up for SFAS. They already have land nav experience, rucking, etc. 18X had a prep course (SOPC) that I heard was really good. Regular army MOSs struggled the most in SFAS.
I wasn't in Batt but was in the 82nd and had already graduated Ranger school prior to going to selection. Again, we're comfortable in the woods and I had already land nav'd a shit ton prior to SFAS.
That being said...we had some awesome 18X guys and regular army guys on my team. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day. All depends on the individual at the end of the day!
That day is forever burned in my memory. I was deployed with JSOC to Camp Eagle in former Yugoslavia for a JRX and thought this was part of the script. 3 weeks later we were in Masirah, Oman using the Kitty Hawk as a Lilly pad for Afghan operations hitting Rhino.
The change was rapid. I was overseas in Kosovo and the guys would bring me I go all the time. We posted what we knew and tried to keep folks informed. We had a group of reservists from NYC! SF was pulled and our MEU was sent out rapidly. It was very different. I called Stars and Stripes and requested the US flag be reprinted again which they did. We needed our flags!
Fuck yeah brother! Thanks for your service 🤙🏻🇺🇲
Lol
No-one should be failing that PT test. It's sloppy admin by the sending unit if that happens.
Happens a lot. Probably 15% of the attrition.
So who's going in selection and taking the PT test? Is it others besides rangers? I would think if it's all rangers then they should all pass.
@@kenfrank2730 SF selection allows everybody.
Having spent my entire time attached (4 years) or Tabbed on SF Teams (19 years) I can attest that what is being said in this video is absolutely true. I spent time in 10th SFG(A), 1st SFG(A), and at the SF school house. Most of the Rangers guys pass SFAS and SFQC in high percentages. Most of the failure percentages came from the rest of the Army units (combined).
Back in the 1970s, the SF "A" Teams used to try to have at least one Ranger Qualified guy on each Team (usually referred to as a Team "Ranger Sergeant").
They used to talk about the difference between being Ranger qualified and being someone who went to "Q."
When he said he didn't want to be a guy who missed their chance to be in combat. It really hit home, since I was between Gulf Wars... I think about it all the time.
I was a firefighter near Ft Bragg area in 90s. A buddy of mine was a Ranger and wanted to get into SF. He was an awesome firefighter and EMT. SF wasn't in the cards for him but he was one of the most capable guys I knew back then. Super fit, highly intelligent, and tough as they come. He had a little bit of a temper though and might have been a contributing factor. It says a lot about the quality of individuals who make through. Because this guy was a hell of a guy and he didn't get accepted.
The 75th ranger regiment probably seen more direct action combat in the 20 year GWOT than any other branch or unit.
Not wrong but like the guy said after E-6 there's not much promotion to be made in the Rangers
Taken down the most HVT’s.
< 1 >
@@mitchconner2021 true. I just don’t get why guys leave and join SF which is still considered tier two, while the rangers offer a tier 1 option.
@@alfarouqaminufor38922 take a break, 2 get promoted, etc
@@wmccormack4647 ...lol
I swear to God that's what I was going to do with ranger battalion as well. So after my 4th deployment with 3rd Battalion 75th Ranger regiment I had gone to my squad leader and I said I think I want to go and try SF for a while. He looked at me and he said have you not noticed how fat all those Green Berets are they don't do anything that we do it was like I had asked to do something completely foreign to him. But he's 100% correct you either go to Delta from ranger battalion or you die in ranger battalion. RLTW 3/75
not sure what SF guys you are talking about, all of the ones I have ever met have been extremely fit
In the eyes of Rangers, they are fat. From an overall fitness stand point, probably only seals can compete with Rangers .
Thank you, for sharing. And Thank you for your service.
I had lots of ex rangers in my unit (SF 23yrs).
4:13
'you forgot '1993 World Trade Center bombing was a terrorist attack carried out by Al-Qaeda against the United States on February 26, 1993, when a van bomb detonated below the North Tower of the World Trade Center'
That was the fbi
@@1cdmap and 11SEP was mossad
@@1cdmap I thought that was by done by the Blind Sheik and his crew from Jersey?
Yep, he blames the Taliban for it because that's what he was told, even though there's damning evidence and admittance that it was Al-Qaeda and not Bin Laden lol...
@@havenless3551Al Qaeda was founded by bin Laden, because he was rich and knew how international finance worked. Thus, Al Qaeda was able to finance and support major efforts that no one else could.
The only beret I ever wore was Shinseki black (a few months before I enlisted, the black beret had been ripped away from the Rangers to become the Army's new "Warrior" look). So, despite serving with quite a few SF and Rangers, I won't pretend to have inside knowledge of either unit. I am fairly qualified to comment on the "up or out" system in the Army that's mentioned in the video, for those who seem confused as to why someone would willingly leave 75th Ranger instead of serving 30 years straight.
With three battalions of four "line" companies (three Rifle, one Specialty [Delta Companies are normally anti-tank/materiel in conventional Infantry]), there are effectively 12-1SG and 48-Platoon Sergeant positions available for those aspiring to advance in position and rank. Okay, so there are two additional battalions organic to the Regiment, and HHC and Support companies in each battalion, so let's be generous and add 13-1SG positions and 50 PSGs. Besides the fact that many of those positions are both open to MOS' other than 11B/C and that they are likely less desirable than being on the "line", we've got 25 aspiring E8s and 100 aspiring E7s. Add in staff positions, and let's say 75th Ranger has a Unit Manning Roster of 35 E8s and 125 E7s. Only 1/5 of the E7s are going to become a 1SG, but a few more might get to sit in S3 until a 1SG slot becomes available.
My battalion CSM in Iraq was a career Ranger. When he was selected for SGM at 14 years or so of service, he had nowhere to go in the Ranger community, so he spent a year or so as an Ops SGM in 502 IN at Campbell before taking over as the CSM for 3/187 IN. After a little over two years in the 101st, an opening popped up and he went to RTB before culminating his Ranger career as the Regimental CSM. Of course, there's nowhere to go from there outside of SOCOM or JSOC, but he was asked to stay on as the Benning CSM, which he did, retiring after spending nearly half his career as an E9.
Similarly, our Ops SGM during my last year in The Old Guard was a former 18E. I don't know the whole story, but I suspect he decided to leave SF at least partly due to a lack of promotion potential. There's a relative lot of room for SSGs in 75th RGR or SFCs in SF, but if you want to continue climbing the chain, you've got to remember that you're literally up against the best.
On a much more low-speed level, look at Recruiters (79R), many of whom come from low-density MOS' that are hard to even attain SFC in (92G, 88M, etc.). Converting to 79R all but guarantees a promotion to SFC, but from there it's very likely that'll be your last promotion. One of my Station Commanders made MSG, but she had converted after already earning SFC as a 92G and was highly successful. It's funny, because there's a hierarchy in the Recruiter community, where making "E7 inside 'your' MOS" is held above those who converted before making rank. Regardless, that is a dog-eat-dog community and only so many 1SG/Operations/Master Trainer positions exist, while nearly all stations have a SFC serving as Station Commander (often with SFC Reserve Recruiters as well).
When were you in 3rd Herd (TOG)?
@@LRRPFco52 2004-2008, A Co
@@anonymousm9113 I was B Co 1994-95, then went to Recon in H Co 95-96 before I volunteered to go to the place they threatened everyone with, Korea. Out of 7 units I was in, 3rd Inf turned out to be one of the better ones just because the entire NCO leadership was 1980s guys who were Panama and ODS Vets, with Reagan-era training habits. I hated being in the line there, but once I got to Korea, realized it wasn't half bad.
@@LRRPFco52 It was the opposite when I got there in '04. I was one of the first junior enlisted to arrive with a CIB. We had a handful of newly arrived NCOs fresh from Iraq, but otherwise nearly everyone below the rank of SFC had made rank in TOG and lacked combat experience.
My first tour in TOG was great. A lot of work, and a lot of sweat, but being on Fort McNair was an experience that can't be emulated. The funny thing is, I almost ended up in Korea myself, only eight months after reporting. With the wars having kicked off, a lot of Soldiers were trying to hide out in TOG by the time I got there. In 2005, me and a bunch of others came down on orders to Korea. They'd failed to adjust my last PCS date but when the error was discovered my orders were rescinded.
I ended up going back after leaving the Trail, which turned out to be my swan song. All of the marching, lost friends, constant funerals, and so on take their toll. I was no longer the motivated SPC who'd reported over 13 years earlier, nor was I the optimistic SSG embarking for a recruiting tour in late-2008. The Regiment had restructured (only four companies conduct funerals now) and when I arrived was understrength. Then too, my company leadership were toxic to an extreme, so after realizing that I couldn't make a difference and that staying there would only be detrimental to my well-being, I moved to MDW, retiring a few years later.
I take it you made it to retirement, having been in 7 different units? I started out semi-high speed in 3/187 IN "Rakkasan", moved to TOG, and then my Infantry career went haywire. Three years recruiting, followed by the "honor" of being selected for S3 by my BDE CSM at Stewart. A handful of months on the line before a surgery sent me back to BDE S3, then Drill Sergeant orders. About four months in H Co (it's a normal company in 1/3 IN now), then on to MDW and a final hurrah with PEO Soldier.
@@anonymousm9113 I remember my first Company formation. 1SG Howard barked out, "I need 2 volunteers!"
I felt myself shoved forward out of my platoon formation along with another private from another platoon as some SPC4 said, "That means you, new dick!"
"Congrats studs, you just got the 2 extra tickets for our Company rafting trip!"
We went to these rapids in West Virginia, had boat-on-boat wars splashing and capsizing each other, just a great time on some genuine rapids.
The only thing that really ruined it was I had an openly-racist black Squad Leader who was a total POS. He came in my room on weekends trying to play Drill Sergeant, and even tore up some of my materials from Church right after I had got back one Sunday.
He would talk about violating and beheading our PSG's wife when we were standing in the bus in our blues between jobs, always trying to agitate some type of response from the EMs.
Back then, H Co had Recon, Mortars, and Caisson Platoons. Recon was one of the best units I was ever in out of 3 Scout Platoons and LRSC in my career. We just trained and trained at AP Hill, did 8-day demo week, tons of IADs with more ammo, pyro, and smoke grenades than I ever saw until OIF. Of the 3 Scout Platoons I was in, that was the only one with a Sniper section where everyone was B4. They even sent 4 of the guys to Quantico USMC Scout Sniper Instructor Course.
Recon Platoon basically got the Regiment's allotment for munitions, including AT4s and other Class V. We did a lot of OPFOR Augmentee or OPFOR duties on-call for other units, which was a blast.
If they had kept that Platoon longer, I wouldn't have volunteered to go to Korea. Once we got notice it was being deactivated, I put in the papers and had orders within a week.
Smithsonian was renovating the barracks as I left for Korea. Went to 1-506th on the DMZ in Korea which I loved, DROS'd to Fort Lewis in I Corps LRSC, which was a dream job for me, got deactivated, sent to 1-24 Inf Scouts in 1st BDE 25th on Lewis, then went to Bragg.
SRS is on fire. Keep fighting the fight brother. 👊
The Army needs to slow down it's promotion process. I was a Marine Sgt (E-5) running a platoon. Exponentially more work than running a fireteam which I did as a Lcpl, but the same pay. As a SSgt (took me 7 1/2 years to get this) I had my own company. Meanwhile, my Army counterparts are still farting around with their squad.
Ranger school instructors seem to dislike SFAS candidates. Saying you should have come here first! Sour grapes!
Ranger pukes are mad that those of us with SF tab called them out for the gutless political bullshyt they pulled...
The ranger crybabies are mad those of us with SF tabs called them out for lowering their standards & pulling political bs... 😂😂😂
@@nunyadambusiness6902 I thought sf did that?
We in SF group called ranger school "Stupid school". There is always anamosioty between the players
I never experienced any animosity with Ranger Batt. I do know Batt. guys absolutely can't go back without getting selected.
He's not lying for the most part. In the early 90s you need to add as a reason to leave "if they moved you against your will..." LOL. I was there 90-92 so after Operation Just Cause and Desert Storm the battalions were actually over capacity. Some companies 20-40 over the usual number. My RIP class at the time had the largest graduation class to date (we graduated 75). So they started moving senior NCOs first then made their way down the line to get the battalions back to the proper number. A lot of the guys started getting into Delta and SF selection to try and not get shipped out against their will.
I was in 2nd Batt 89'-93', the only time I remember being at full strength was Panama. After that six or seven man squads was the norm.
This was 1st Battalion. I can't speak for 2nd or 3rd.
Working alone and lack of feedback sounds great! Never cared for attaboys and assume if my boss isn’t’ t talking to me than I’m doing things right. Overcoming my lone wolf individualism was a reason I joined the Infantry coming from someone who never did team sports. Learning to work with others to overcome a goal is a challenge that is most of the time fun and rewarding.
Interesting, he was in the Sep class, I was supposed to be in that class but got pushed to Oct...those SFAS evaluators were really cool to us...I can see them engaging as he explained.
Love the interview with Joe Kent. Seems like a good guy, and very sharp. My condolences to his wife...
Wrong place wrong time, that sums up my whole army career (aviator). Missed Grenada, Panama, DS1, DS2, Afghanistan, all while I was in the service. It was frustrating.
Looking forward to seeing the Full Interview !!!
I just love the way he ask question in so chill mode
Mr. Kent is awesome! Thanks for sharing.🙌🏼🤜🏼🤛🏼
I retired from SF in 04, Did a lot of contracting after I got out. Now I am involved in PTO and Robin Sage throughout the year, I've been doing this for over 3 years now. I am currently the XO of the G-base and I'm slotted to pick up the G-chief position very soon. It is interesting how SF has changed and evolved since I was in.
My stepson joined the Marine Corps simply to have something to do while he waited to be old enough for law enforcement. Graduated MCRD Pendleton on 9/14/2001. His experience was similar to this regarding the GWOT.
Gotta get a modern Ranger on who can talk about the vast change regiment went through during GWOT, all the guests are always very early GWOT SOF
Cameron Fath would be a good one he’s the ranger on toughest forces on Netflix
I second this
RLTW
It’s like that still bro went to sel. With a dude who was a Ranger
It’s still like that. I got out in December of 2022 and they wanted to RFS a friend of mine for going to sfas but thank God he got selected. He was still getting RFS’d but at least he was selected to go through the Q course
Holy shit that guy was at SF selection during 9/11. Me, I was 10 days from graduation from Marine Boot camp.
I was in 1/502nd infantry 101st , i went to sfas at a tine when not a lot of guys were getting picked up. Group was full on E-7 and below . It was 1999 .. so i made selection . Was back in my unit and my BN XO asked if i was gonna go to the Q course . He cussed me out when i said yes
Class 03-88 was the last easy class. IYKYK.
I spent 10 years in Group and retired a couple years before 9/11.
One thing I can take from this is anyone with a Ranger tab in Group was an insufferable SOB. They thought they knew everything about everything, and they necessarily thought they were better than everyone else. It was worse when they were also 18B's, which most were.
My guess is a lack of foreign language skills might be a problem
Many years ago I read an article that said SF was looking for guys with special skills. For example, knowing a foreign language, computer skills, lock picking, scuba diving, etc.
SUT is literally Ranger POI. We cut like 30% of the class...
Great video. Great interview. I went through much of this and I was able to identify with a lot of it. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I was one of those guys who kept missing the combat deployments. We didn't want war, but if it went down, let us lead the way. We wanted to soften up the enemy and hopefully save the lives of those who came behind us. But, for me, it never happened.
I was a proud member of the Pineland Liberation Force (PLF) during Robin Sage in Feb, 86. I had a lot of fun during those 2 weeks. I even met my former Battery Commander from Cp Pelham, South Korea, there. He was one of the SF students. He successfully completed the course. I know of one guy who didn't pass. I overheard the other SF guys talking about it and it sounds like he complained too much. I don't know what happened to him, if he had to do part of the course over again, or if he was sent back to his unit. I never saw any of those guys again, including my old BC, Cpt Costello.
Went through selection in the seventies from 20th Gp. Ninety started and 28 finished it. Then went through the medic part where 30 started and 15 finished. There were a few Seals that attempted the surgical course and just weren’t prepared for it. I later went to a civilian PA course and breezed right through it. The training is worth it.
Way back when (1990) we got a new CSM in 1st Batt and he personally interviewed every NCO. When my turn came he asked me what my plans were. I said eventually I wanted to go to SFAS and then, hopefully, to Group. He looked at me and turned his nose up like I was a dead stinking fish and said "But you'll never lead Rangers!". Due to my mother dying of cancer I got out before ever trying out for a Green Beanie but his response stayed with me until this day.
I've heard that there's animosity between Green Berets and Rangers. I don't get it.
Joe Kent may be your best interview ever. Best wishes for him in the upcoming election.
I don't care which branch of service you were all in.
Nor the unit or MOS. You were all brothers in arms at one point. And in the fight you didn't care about your differences. You all based each other's worth on the conduct of your character.
So please don't lower the standards that you all hold yourselves to.
Please respect each other online. We're supposed to have the highest ethical standards.
That's why we signed up to defend.
Thanks for reading
Affirmative action women are our brothers, yeah, okay buddy
Folks, if you're not on Sean Ryan's Patreon, you're missing out.
I went to high school with a guy who was a Ranger who later went to SF. Retired from the 7th group.
My brother was SF he was stationed at Ft Lewis rangering and went SF then a spook. His buddies are involved still Non active
Very very proud of you and what you’ve done.
I was driving home from Alaska when the towers were hit. Was driving to NY. Visited my aunt in Seattle and drove away on sept 10th.
Nonconventional warfare is mentioned at the end of this. A good book out this year is The Unvanquished, by Patrick O'Donnell. Relates this experience to both sides during the Civil War.
That relatability to missing out….truth spoken. Send us, use us!
Met Kent in Yacolt, small town he lives in, decent guy, I do not always agree with him but voted for him.
Afraid I was going to miss it is the only attitude that makes sense to me. Respect.
When leaving Ranger to go SF...."BURN THE BOATS".
I an a conscientious objector that was drafted and ended up as medic and dental tech with the 8th SF at the School of Americas and we trained many Rangers in the various training done for South American allies and american forces in urban and jungle warfare at the Ft.Gulick in Panama. The main difference between the Rangers. Seals, and other special units is that the SF were trained to go behind enemy for extensive periods of time on their own and train soldiers against their autocratic regimes and Communists. guerillas, as they did with Che Guevara in Bolivia in 1968. As SF you are trained to performs your duties and remain active until withdrawn for periods up to a year and to remain incognito. For the most part there were many Chicanos (as I am) , Puerto Ricans, and Cubans who spoke Spanish fluently.. The SF are the miitary arm of the CIA and NSA.
Very interesting. Thank you for hosting the discussion and then sharing.
I knew I seen you before! I was in Fort Bragg on 9/11 as well!
This dude looks like an American Orlando Bloom, but much more badass
This brings back memories! I was a Infantry Brigade JAG Legal NCO in Germany, in the 80s. A Delta recruiting team flew in. I was selected as a candidate. Fortunately for me, being with an infantry Brigade that ran 5 miles every morning, and loved PT, I was in top physical condition. Also, coming from a generational military family, I was fortunate to be selected and assigned to Delta. Yet, officers were still asking me about UCMJ matters.
That secondary MOS was still on your back LOL.
I was in 3/75 in the mid-90s and I remember a few guys leaving for SFAS and no one really having any heartburn about it. The vast majority of these guys were E-5/E-6s and newly promoted CPTs that wanted to get out of the infantry mindset and do something different. I'm not saying that it was actively encouraged to leave Battalion and go to Group but there weren't any real impediments either. In an interesting quirk, we also had a number of SF NCOs (primarily medics but also a couple of senior guys working at HQs) come to 3/75 and do a tour there. I'm not sure if that was a one off or something that consistently happened throughout the years.
I went 18B then went and got my Black & Gold tab. I learned the RIs didn’t not like us 18 series and tried their damnest to break us. Great leadership course and a 64 day break.
Shawn, great content as expected. Joe thanks for your service and story-
We were direct support for Rangers at Ft Benning way back in the day...That course out in the boonies was pass or die tryin'...So many people got hurt out there the army built this Star Wars medical dispensary....Entering that qualification course,, it was a real good idea to be wearing a cape and a red "S" on your chest..
Im in basic training at Ft. Jackson and struggling but I have grit.
Once I get to my first unit I’m applying for ranger school
How are you using social media during basic? wtf
How are you watching youtube videos if you're in basic right now?
You can’t goto ranger school unless your an officer … otherwise if your noncommissioned you have to go to battalion
If you’re struggling at relaxon Jackson you don’t have what it takes for ranger school
If you're struggling at basic at Jackson, Ranger isn't for you.
Robin Sage was the coolest experience I've ever had!!!
You gotta think how pissed these guys had to of been after seeing the buildings attacks
nice to see a studio with an actual audio setup
That is definitely the perspective for Infantry guys but for Ranger medics, SF 18D is the natural progression for those who do not want to go to Med or PA school. After RGR Medics attend 300.F1/Combat Casualty Course, and Ranger School, make E5 promotable, there is not much room for growth unless you head to Regimental support. In the late 80s early 90s, SF was the career progression.
Glad to see you are back to doing what you'er good at, interviewing real men, I thought you were going down the political rabbit hole.
I like Kent. We need young men like this to lead, who have lived through heartbreak, but who are so positive by nature that they make the best of a bad situation.
Funny thing...just 4-5 Spcwr candidates (mil in gen, but specwar), must meet 2 initial things. 1. Team. 2. Leader. All SHALL meet the 2! Then...other personal attributes come into play. The others (me, couldn't do...med?) Did the next best thing....did what we could, but wouldn't settle for?(norm mil). Para? Rescue Swim? Swamp boat op's, Flt whatevers?...Etc. yes, I wanted, but injury kept me out of "tier one", but not...in someone else's bilges. Strive where others don't, but can. This was me.😊
Kent should be in Congress.
Top quality content. Two top operators right there.👊
Some of us had no reason to join SF - Ranger Class 5-70. We did not give a crap about winning "hearts and minds".
I’m 46, Navy Veteran, and if I could get into The Army I’d go SF 🇺🇸
Never right place at the right time. That was me. And yes, if you left battalion for other opportunities you were a traitor
We had a few Rangers in our SFAS. Only one made it.
Then conversely once i got to Group we only sent dudes to Ranger school as a punishment when they needed an attitude adjustment.