The Disturbing Movement You Need to Know About | With Tim Barnett and Alisa Childers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ธ.ค. 2023
- There's a movement of deconstruction that is crashing through our churches. I talked with Alisa Childers and Tim Barnett about it. I personally have felt the sting of people I care about deconstructing and found myself MUCH more confident in what this movement is and how to respond after reading this very timely book. In light of what Christians are dealing with today, this is probably one of the most important interviews I've done so far.
● Get the book here: alisachilders.com/the-deconst...
Timestamps:
02:58- What is deconstruction, and what is it *not*?
13:50- Toxic theology and the baggage with the term "evangelical" being synonymous with "God, guns, and Trump."
18:45- Why do people deconstruct?
22:53- Deconstruction from false Christianity vs. deconstruction from biblical Christianity
30:42- Why do those who deconstruct seem like they're joining a whole other religion of "deconverting the converted?"
34:18- Why are there so many connection between deconstruction and Critical Theory?
42:19- How to doubt well and not be afraid to ask questions.
47:46- A personal question about deconstruction and advice for viewers.
👀WATCH👀:
● My interview with Monique Ducson: • Critical Race Theory, ...
● What is Critical Theory and Postmodernism?: th-cam.com/users/liveyHvJx-rB...
● Alisa's TH-cam: / @alisachilders
● RedPenLogic with Mr.B: / @redpenlogic
📚RESOURCES📚:
●www.amazon.com/shop/melissado...
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paypal.me/MelissaDougherty77
📲FOLLOW📲
Melissa-
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My Website: www.melissadougherty.co/
Alisa-
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Instagram: / alisachilders
Tim-
Facebook: / redpenlogic
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💡SEMINARY💡:
Looking for a solid theological education? Look at Southern Evangelical Seminary: ses.edu/melissa/
Such an important topic. Thanks for having us on your channel, Melissa. Appreciate you and your ministry!
so, not believing something because all the evidence points away from it, is 'postmodern' now.
wow, that's an absolute torturing of the term
@@haydenwalton2766 So "someone told me it's not true but I haven't looked into it for myself", is 'all the evidence points away from it' now. Wow, that's an absolute torturing of a phrase.
@@AndrewJohnH wow, that's some pretty desperate speculation there, andrew.
and just a tad ironic, if it's coming from someone who's bought the entire life view package
@@haydenwalton2766 Well, you literally said that all the evidence points away from it, and it doesn't, so you can't have looked into all the evidence, now, can you? Not only is there good evidence for the claims of Christianity, which you would have to ignore, or just be ignorant of, but there are evidences that will be seen in different ways depending on your point of view. The total package (including science, reason, and logic) does make more sense to me in the context of Christianity. As a Christian, I can admit that. Is that something you can admit as a non-Christian? If not, then my educated guess (not desperate speculation) is that you've believed what someone told you instead of looking into it for yourself.
And before you assume that I don't do what I'm suggesting you do, and that I just buy into what I've been told without questioning, I can assure you that assumption is uninformed.
I have looked into a number of claims and evidences brought to bear by the other side (some quite deeply). I have nothing to fear from discovering the truth. Do you?
@@AndrewJohnH oh andrew, you are the very personification of dunning - kruger in action. but you are still young, so there's that.
and I'd kick that david wood habit if I were you - that stuff will rot your brain
I came out of the Word of Faith in the early 1990s. Instead of "deconstructing", I went back to the Scriptures and gradually reformed to biblical Christianity.
I also came out of the faith movement and felt devastated after finding the truth. However I knew that Jesus is real and I could never deconstruct. Instead, I repented and read the Bible the way I should have read in the first place. I'm closer to Jesus than I ever was in the faith movement.
Beautiful.
Same. ❤
I did the same after spending 26yrs in word of Faith. Still doing it. Best thing i ever did
So having faith and praying for healing isn’t biblical?
I've been learning what it means to follow The Lord rather than follow other Christians.
Was heavily influenced by a "Christian" couple who, unfortunately, were both spiritually aggressive and manipulative, causing much fear and confusion to my faith, because even though many of their beliefs were technically biblical, they used them as a weapon for their own gain.
Thankfully I've been able to leave that spiritually abusive relationship to sort things out with the Lord. And one thing I've learned, Christians, whether genuine or not, will let us down at some point, but God never will.
God and His Word are NEVER the ones we need to "deconstruct" from. Thankfully now I'm at a solid Bible believing and teaching fellowship, learning and growing in His truth and learning what it means to be a genuine follower of Christ.
So glad you have found a good church & are in the Word which is God's heart as to what He desires for His children.
Very true. I’m grateful for the instruction of the Lord when I encountered a number of pitfalls
Why would you learn from any man in the first place and didn´t go straight to Bible in the first place? Simple. Why my Christianity should depend on others, on how others act, operate... it doesn´t even make sense and it´s huge logical fallacy in my book. But not offense.
Amen to that pinkglasses ✝
I wish I heard this 15 years ago when I was first born again. Learnt it the hard way! But God never gave up on me. Thank you for sharing
What a difference there is between practicing Christianity and KNOWING our Father.
When you truly know the father you won’t have to practice being a Christian you will be living it
@rickytavilla4259 I left out the "a". And I agree with you
@@janellemarierose YES!!
John 17:3
@@janellemarierose Yes, it's first & foremost a relationship w/our heavenly Father, Jesus & the Holy Spirit. Reading the Word helps us in that relationship because it contains the heart of God & what He desires for our lives.
Crazy you just posted this. I spent yesterday watching several TH-cam videos on “why I left Christianity” or “why I deconstructed from Christianity” etc. My conclusion on all of them was someone failed to answer their questions, or they didn’t want to hear the answers, or complete lack of understanding of scripture. None of them gave any reason that could not be easily explained. I want to add that there are many churches teaching things that are not in the Bible so as adults who grew up in church we do need to study the Bible for ourselves for better understanding. But many instead walk away thinking that what they were taught is absolute gospel truth and no other way to see it. Calvinism pops up a lot as their reason and they don’t seem to realize there are other views. That’s heartbreaking.
Same conclusion I got to 😅
Sadly, the answer is right there in Scripture. Paul writes about teachers and pastors "equipping the saints." Simply making people reliant on a particular person isn't "equipping" any more than a parent who pays the rent for their grown, able-bodied child (with liveable income) is giving them "independence." If believers don't feel able to lovingly correct any leader on the basis of God's Word at any given time, then something is terribly wrong.
No. Its about thinking. Being a free thinker. People who deconstruct their faith are people who dare to think for them self. They dare to think outside the tiny little box called christianity.
Most christians dont dare to do this.
Why?
Because if they start to question their belief system they might backslide.
And backsliders are going to hell.
So the main core of christianity is the fear of hell.
Its not about the love of Jesus and all that crap that christians talks about.
If it wasnt for the fear of hell christians wouldnt do this crap.
Think about that.
I'm trying to understand the problem with calvinism. It does seem like a lot of adults I see who grew up Christian are deconstructing and "leaving" calvinism... But what I find so interesting is as a new Christian I can't unsee calvinism in the scriptures ...
@@LaurenSheehan aside from the fact that it’s not biblical, it maligns God’s character and distorts the gospel, and contradicts so much of the Bible. It makes God the author of all evil and blames Him when someone rejects the gospel because ultimately, in Calvinism, God determined that. Calvin got his ideas from Augustine’s teachings. Augustine was a determinist and brought that philosophy to certain scriptures. But when you read the Bible as a whole, you do not get Calvinism. You get that the gospel is for all, the gift of salvation is for all, and man is responsible to respond to it or reject it.
I almost fell into it as most of my friends are Calvinist, but then I studied for myself and realized it doesn’t make sense.
A friend of mine who is married is a Calvinist. His wife no longer calls herself a Christian and it’s been hard for him. After 3 years, she’s open to the gospel again and I’ve been trying to show there are other views.
Oh, and I am not Arminian either 😆 They are practically cousins.
The postmodern word "Deconstruction" simply means Destruction. The goal is to destroy the truth in order to believe the lies each individual wants to claim as "Their Truth".
Exactly! Nothing new under the sun since God spoke the world into existence.
Amen.
I think you are being intentionally inflammatory against those who have deconstructed. I stopped believing because I no longer accept the Abrahamic god or the validity of the bible. I don't necessarily want to protest Christianity or prove it wrong to everyone. I just seek answers to understand this world more and if there is a god.
@@snackler6102 How do you get that?
1984
If people want to deconstruct bad theology, I’m all for it. If what they’re seeking is self-righteousness through woke ideology and they’re sacrificing faithfulness in the process, that’s a problem.
Yes, I’ve witness this in seminary. Many of whom are pastors and have deconstructed their faith or turned away. Mostly due in part to not agreeing with God’s Word thus reinterpreting the Bible.
Well said
I could have spent an hour trying to sum it up but you did it beautifully ❤
When people use the term “deconstruct” that’s often exactly what they mean. When someone talks about this it’s always good to ask them to define what they mean instead of jump to conclusions. I have videos on my channel about healthy deconstruction, but really it’s more like being a good berean
I would love to do a book on one of the issues you brought up. "Untethering Church hurt", how do we move from church hurt to God's love.
My son has fell for the deconstruction movement. May the Lord bring him back!
I pray he returns home like the Prodigal Son.
Praying for your son!
Also praying ✝️♥️
Give him a book of Mormon. Our faith is not loosing as many as a %. It changed my life
Any god other than the real Biblical Lord Jesus Christ from Nazareth the Gid-Man, fully God, fully Man, is a god of a humans making, an idol, that cannot save from the True God's wrath, forgive our sins, deliver us from going to Hell. Romans 10.
Deconstruction - The words of the serpent in the garden - "Did God really say?"
I've heard christians say that before about deconstruction and it's gaslighting to keep you from questioning them
@@lkqgirl3121 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Prov.26:4,5
Depends upon the premise of the question and the motives of the questioner. Jesus’ answers to the various questions put to
Him illustrates this principle perfectly. He never just shut down the question, although sometimes His answer stumped them, but always gave the truthful answer exactly appropriate to the premises of the question and the attitude of the questioner. People poise the same questions with the same hidden premises to this day. Learn from Jesus in the Scripture how to answer them.
Yep.
Two of my children have walked away from their faith in God, and it's heartbreaking to watch. Raised in a Christian home, they've decided to raise their children as atheists, needless to say, I'm heartbroken and is asking for prayer.
I'm sorry your children left God. Pray for them and be encourage. Sometimes it's best for young people to find God on there own in there own way once in a blue moon pray with them with life gets tough and reassure them that God loves them. Loving someone means loving them in all seasons. Don't push the bible on them just love them and pray.
God still loves them and is merciful toward them and enables you to continue to love them too. Love, true love, never fails. We pray one day God’s love melts their hearts.
@Countrygirl I am so sorry the enemy has led your babies astray. I am praying in the mighty name of Jesus, that He will reach them with His mighty right hand! I pray He draws them back to Himself, In Jesus mighty name!!!! Praise you Jesus! 🙌❤
Thank you for your prayers and encouragement. I feel encouraged. ♥️
You are not alone😢
Thank you for your ministries!
Notice a significant theme of the "deconstructing" bandwagon:
It's NOT about the holiness of God and trying to genuinely love Him, but primarily focuses on personal interests.
Of course. Deconstruction was created by Derrida. The whole idea is that meaning and language is subjective and fluid. There is no objective reality for us, no morality, only propaganda, lies, shifting meanings and personal desires and goals.
Reconstruction is a better word. Backsliding is more of a falling away from the faith.
Every second generation Christian raised in a Christian home, needs to come to their own walk with the Lord, not because others expect it.
Backsliding is the result.
no such thing as backsliding
Yes. I watched a number of deconstruction videos a few years ago when i first came to Christ and i noticed straight away it was mostly complaining about their parents or other Christians within the church or their desire to 'play with boys' in their teenage years because of course the world encourages them to go to parties when their parents probably said no. The few that DID raise questions about theology could have easily been answered by a pastor. People refuse to accept the word 'no' these days, it does say the final generations will be exceptionally rebellious. This is just the start as these young adults will now have kids of their own.
I agree. I also was looking for answers. It was a prayer I prayed twice in my life. Both times I got and answer I was not expecting but was grateful for receiving. As a result my faith was deepened.
There are thousands of children praying to be rescued from abusive situations and they don’t get helped, but your prayers were answered. You weren’t an innocent vulnerable child begging for mercy. Seems a bit odd to me.
@@MrsBridgette2012 you don’t know about my childhood. My childhood was full of abuse and neglect. No one helped me out of that. My answer to pray wasn’t for getting me out of that situation. It was for understanding what Gods word said. I have dyslexia, two teachers took the time to teach me how to read using a method that they were never taught to use Called the Orton method.
The next prayer was basically the same prayer just focused more on Which bible version to use that would be easier for me to understand.
I need to tell you I was an innocent child over looked by the police and unheard by family. But it was my faith that carried me through. But here I am. I guess you need me to share my story because sometimes life sucks. Sometimes the people in our lives that are supposed to protect us don’t. Sometimes faith comes and shows us that there is something worth living for. And that not everyone is out to hurt us.
I hope this helps. God bless.
@@AmyNWike- ❤️✝️🕊️
Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, forever
Truth
I really agree about the Q&A idea - not having any space to ask questions of the most spiritually mature believers (in theory, the senior pastor and elders) really stunts the growth of the congregation. Also can cause the leadership to become lazy in their own study of the Word and in fact checking their sermons! So many issues could be solved if more churches would just allow people to ask questions! So easy to do online these days as well, could gather questions in the week and select say 10-20 to answer after the service, or before the service starts. Why do we not do this?🤷♀️
Most believers struggle with reading and the study of the Bible .You make some great points , our relationship to GOD is the MOST important decision we will ever make . I took it so lightly in my initial contact with teachers and followers ,I’m so grateful GOD has allowed me time to embrace my relationship with Him..
At one point I had a sort of "crisis of faith" but what I really wanted was to sin without guilt.
It took me many years to understand a Biblical worldview. God bless you Melissa.
Sounds like the most important thing we are to do is to slow that young person down and ask them questions about what they mean when they use those "words". I think we'll find out most of them don't even know themselves and are just repeating fad words on social media.
Carefully though. There's often a lot of emotion that leads to that point. It's not just that they're mindlessly repeating words and following a trend. It's more often than not a cry for spiritual help and for someone to help them figure things out. I have a younger friend whose father basically kept debating her when she just wanted to have a calm conversation. Even though what he said was true, she felt unheard and confused and left the church anyway. Much of the conversation really needed to be about helping her see that God is good both in general and to her personally, not JUST that she didn't know what she was talking about.
Do ask but also remember that slowing someone's roll is God's job. Please don't call their words "fad words" to them. They are, but saying so will not safeguard the relationship. I noticed in this chat, if you are able to pre-order the book, you get to either read the chapter on how to best approach this, or you can simply listen to it with a 60-day pass. That may be just what's needed for your situation.
I do college ministry and unfortunately am seeing this a lot in students coming in, or students who were part of our ministry and left. A student from Italy who grew up catholic told me, “maybe I’ll call myself a Christian again when the church lines up with my political beliefs” (specifically about lgbt and abortion issues). I told her that we should be aligning our beliefs with God, not expecting Him to conform to us. It’s just sad that this is a prevalent attitude in young people “deconstructing.” Thanks for tackling this topic!
Inevitable.
It's just another form of rebellion. The vast majority of mankind was always going to rebel against god.
We have to remember that in the last days many will fall from the faith and follow deceptive spirits that aren't from God.
Deconstruction = falling away.
Not necessarily …
Of course there are deconstructing coaches. It’s so helpful when you have someone who understands your background when you are losing your whole moral and belief system. It’s life saving. 😢 we get passionate about sharing our deconstruction stories because it’s truly like being born again. You feel at peace with yourself and truly free and you see all the teachings that pushed you to dissociate and live in fear (no matter the reassuring verses or truth you try to cling to so the fear would ease.) of course from a perspective of coming out of religious bondage we feel this strong desire to help free others. It’s not a power play. It’s the joy of sharing life changing experiences and related with those who went through that change.
One of the worst things that can happen to an apologist is gaining a reputation, a large following, and a dependency on apologetic work for income. Never become a “celebrity” apologist.
And yet you are watching three celebrity apologists right now
It’s observation and opinion people are entitled to that. As well it is very important to watch content that you may not agree with to stay open-minded and educated. It’s not great to stay in an echo chamber which unfortunately is what most apologists do.
@carlgrimeseyepatch27 Does Kiva actually sound open minded to you?
@@carlgrimeseyepatch27 That presupposes that the echo chamber is wrong. I mean, if some one echos over and over that we need to deny self, pick up our cross daily and follow Jesus, is that a bad echo chamber? What about this echo chamber:
Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. (Deut 11:18-19, KJV)
Never become or even pursue becoming a “celebrity minister, or clergyman” of any kind. The Lord’s mandate for us is to make disciples of Him, who are His followers, not to build a following of our own, built on a reputation of our own making.
We’ve seen a few couple going through this, primarily brought on by the pandemic and not being in church.
From what I’ve seen, people who claim to be deconstructing have a lack of knowledge when it comes to church doctrine, history, and Christian philosophy. These folks would rather pick up a new age book, than read writings of the early church fathers (or even more recent apologists like CS. Luis or GK Chesterton. )
Overall, deconstructing is taking the longest slowest road you can, to get to atheism.
My faith galvanized during the pandemic and I attribute it in part to the fact that so many churches bowed down to the tyrannical government, including the small church in my very small community that I was attending at the time. I live alone and the Lord was quite literally all I had. Breaks my heart that so many were led in the opposite direction.
@@teslinjoe5938can’t tell you how happy it makes me to read that.
Both my wife and I cling to God during the pandemic, while many of our couple friends step away. And a few of them have started deconstructing.
It’s a very isolating feeling.
For me, the pandemic provided me with more time that I could ask for, and I dove head first into apologetics. My wife, was dealing with a few new age ideas at the time, but she held onto the belief that her husband is head of the household (I never asked her to do that) but thank the lord she did because it allowed me to lead her down the same path as I.
Now, it’s like we’re standing on this weird island where we have grown more fundamental, steadfast in our belief, and closer with God. While everyone around us are floating in the waters of sin trying to justify their own and others debauchery.
@@moosechuckleYES this makes sense. My husband didn't want to lead and I grew up in a toxic matriarch family of single women and I didn't see a point in a man leading. Until my husband was led to faith my another man, then in my jealousy I started to recognize the truth in the Word by trying to show I knew better. Lol
I stumbled upon "Lead Me" by Sanctus Real. (Only song of theirs I know) and it made me cry. I needed that. The more he was willing to (respectfully) lead, it helped us grow. Our marriage and family life is so much better since. It's only been about 6 years now but feels like much longer. ❤
The pandemic had my husband I running back to Christ simultaneously. It was wild! We were blessed to find an awesome solid biblical church.
We were definitely struck by what happened in churches in pandemic. They folded and bowed at the feet of government so they would not lose their 501C3 tax exemption most likely. My old church required reservation for Christmas service 😮This is God's house! I could only imagine someone depressed and alone, deciding to go to church and being turned away. Same church did trick or treating and carving pumpkins for the next Halloween 😣💝How far they fell when the old pastor left💔
Yes, watched a dear family member "deconstruct" and she even said a couple of years ago, "I tried atheism and I didn't like that."
She was raised in a God-fearing home and spent her early adult years in ministry, her husband pursuing being in pastoral ministry. But she lost a baby to sids and it was a very slow process of deconstructing. Now she has remade God in her own image and even goes so far as to say that my husband and I "idolize" the Bible. She is so blind to the fact that she is God now. The only thing she worships is her own beliefs and her subjective idea of morality, which changes whenever her adult children do something new outside of God's plan for them. We just keep praying, but she's a difficult person because she disdains us and is haughty. But that's the attitude our Lord was continually met with, so we should not be surprised.
There is another problem in the church. Many Christians feel others should fall into their line of thinking about a particular topic. Even adult students want a Sunday School teacher to affirm what the student already believes to be true. To be challenged about their beliefs is problematic. When the opposite happens many students leave that church for a more liberal one.
Or the reverse could be true. Many leave that church for a more biblical one.
This is a huge problem. I talk about topics like this on my channel
I took my family in the opposite direction. Shortly after George Floyd died one of our pastors went on a rant about social justice and systemic racism. After the service I approached him and asked him to provide examples of systemic racism because I was confused why the topic was brought up in his sermon. He talked about how more black people are in jail for the same crimes as white people, how schools in majority black communities are failing to educate their students and how unarmed black men are killed all the time by police. I asked him if he thinks anything else could be the cause of those things? He said he supposed so. Then I asked how many unarmed black men are killed by police in a year? He guessed 500-600. I said it’s actually around 20 on average and almost all of them are deemed justified when the entire situation was considered. I explained to him how the discrepancy in sentencing is easily explained when you consider the fact that most of those sentences are because of prior convictions or the criminal taking plea deals to avoid other more serious charges. I explained to him that all those schools that are failing to educate their students actually spend far more per student than any other school districts and all those school districts have around 80% single mother households. His answer? That’s how racists think! I have never set foot in that church again and most of the congregation has left that church for other more biblically rooted churches. That church has a 400 seat auditorium that used to be at capacity for 2 service every Sunday. Now it can’t fill it for one service and has stopped the second service all together.
Leaving the church is one of the best decisions I've ever made.
@@sarahbrome5564 Finding and attending a Biblical church is better ✝
At 11:22. Re. Deconstruction vs. Reformation. He is right. Many Christians are looking for answers that fit into their personal line of belief. I lead a workshop for Sunday School teaches in my church. One of the biggest issues they deal with from student of all ages is a pushback on doctrine and rules found in scripture. For example, teachers often have student saying there is nothing wrong with same sex attraction, gay marriage and transgender surgery. They are students who reject truths found in the Bible and instead base their beliefs on the world and local leftist culture.
In truth, that is a symptom of a rather insidious cause: far too often, Christian parents do not use real discernment with their children in their entertainment venues. I know FAR TOO MANY Christian parents who let their adolescent kids watch things that had blatantly anti-Christian ideals. And I don't just mean sexual matters. Watch how many times a villain in a television show or movie is a Bible-Quoting psychopath. The current HBO series "The Last of Us" has a main antagonist like this, and that's not the only one.
3 of my favourite YT people all in one interview. This was wonderful. Thank you all for your contribution to this episode, I really enjoyed it.
Great discussion! I think it's so dangerous the way Millennials and Gen Z's get their information which is largely based on opinion shared on Social Media. For me, God's the potter and I'm the clay; I stay in Word, pray / spend quiet time with the Lord and have childlike faith. The Holy Spirit is sure to guide me as a result. Happy New Year, Melissa!!!
Yes!I asked where did you get or hear that from.,Tik tok!We must be sensitive to the Holy Spirit in the times we are living.
They are looking for "answers" that "escape" accountability.
What we should be doing is deconstructing from the WORLD and NOT Christianity.
1 John 2:15-16.
Remember Luke 9:23?
“If anyone wishes to come after me, let him DENY HIMSELF, take up his cross and follow me.”
This de-construction just sounds like another term for following your own plans and desires, not God’s.🤷🏼♂️
I like the term reformation instead.
Thank you Melissa and guests for this interview and giving us a “heads up” on this issue!
It's almost like your saying christians should be no part of the world.......
So good! I’ve come across people who claim to be followers of Jesus yet they claim that “feeling it in their body” is akin to knowing truth. And they follow the Naked Pastor and are militantly LGBTQ affirming. Oh and they embrace what Allie Stuckey calls toxic empathy.
So frustrating. Thank you for this important conversation!
Just preordered the book. I’m excited to read it!!
In 2017 I turned away from study Bibles with commentary to a Bible with only relevant scripture connections and no commentary from wo/man. I wanted to read God’s Word and hear from Him about my questions. Best decision ever!!
Every person has an opinion and that’s just too fallible. I want one opinion and one Truth.
Thank you for explaining this new hurdle. May God bless you and keep you. 🙏🏼
I have a question for you. It sounds like you can read the Bible and come to the correct conclusion without any input from others. Is that what you meant?
Does God in His omniscience, hold or share “opinions” ? Can He communicate what He knows with certainty? Commentaries by Bible teachers may and often do help, but no human commentary on the Bible can be complete as the truth it comments on. Bible context, established by divine inspiration, is the only sound and safe commentary, or explanation of Bible meaning. It is God the Spirit Himself by revelation thru His written word Who, by that inspired word, leads into all truth, God’s truth. All else is opinion.
This is a great conversation, especially for modern day issue's where discipleship is being bogged down with feelings vs truth within a given conversation. I'll definitely be ordering this book. Thanks
My church and, especially, my father stressed the importance of questions and Biblical answers. My dad always said, "You must know for yourself." I was never afraid to question or disagree. It has served me well.
@eremiasranwolf3513 That wasn't my experience. I even disagreed with a church teaching in a membership class, and it wasn't a deal breaker for them. Then again, I could articulate a Biblically based objection, so we agreed to disagree. Truth be told, I've never agreed 100% with anyone or any church, but we 100% agree on the most essential, Jesus.
@@eremiasranwolf3513 We shouldn't teach our children to fear questions since we know the one with the answers.
Very interesting. Listening to this I can really see a need for true discipleship in the church. Many modern churches no longer offer Sunday School or true discipleship programs. The small group model has kind of taken over, but their effectiveness needs to be questioned. Fellowship is great, but how can we truly get closer to God if our small group is focused on other topics (hiking, health, parenthood, etc ). I am not saying the Bible doesn't speak on these topics, rather I am saying the central focus needs to be on growing closer to God, and a deeper understanding of the Bible. We can't afford to remain seeker sensitive.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for differentiating between deconstruction and reformation! I've been waiting for someone to point this out! Thank God for raising you all up for such a time as this!
The apostate priest says, "It is better to travel hopefully than it is to arrive."
The bright one responds, "If that were true, and known to be true, how could anyone travel hopefully?" C. S. Lewis THE GREAT DIVORCE
I clicked on your video so that I can watch it later. I’m not sure if I’m ready. My daughter is currently caught up in this. Pray for all the young 20-something’s who are listening to the garbage. 😔🙏🏼
I understand 😢🙏❤
It was a very safe discussion. I'd encourage you to give it a listen, friend. :)
I pray for Millennials and Gen Z who grew up with social media and pressure to conform to the world system instead of Jesus. I pray you will watch this video. Jesus loves you.
@@carriestout6422I deconstructed because of all the craziness and backwardness that I experienced in evangelical churches. Please do pray for us. We desperately need leaders that are willing to be approached with questions, and also that are willing to be kept accountable.
Great job guys. Ah, social media….a blessing and a curse. Every issue is now compounded by it but the Lord has his warriors working hard through the same platforms. Thank you for staying in the fight! God bless
It's odd that they say they are going away from western/American culture. But they are actually moving with it, not away from it. They are shifting with the culture!
Yes ! Blind leading the blind. Almost no independent thoughts.
thank you. I've not heard these buzz words until I saw your interview. The first thing for any constructive conversation is agreeing on definitions. This is a good start.
The last part of this video really spoke to me. I have several friends actually that are pulling away from God. My weak reaction was to pull away from them. I don't hang out with them as much and instead spend more time with my church friends. But I'll never find that opportunity to talk with them if I abandon them out of fear of them pulling me with them. (It has happened to me before) but instead I need to spend more time in the Word and wait for God to tell me his timing. Thank you.
Right. Flee temptation. I fled from some friends that touch my week points. Others might be strong to explain them more about Christ.
I've seen people fall back into sin because they went too testify to their old friends...
I've found myself pulling away from my family a bit as they've been falling into some dangerous beliefs. But it's more due to the pain and hurt of the way they have treated me throughout this whole mess, and just the fact that I don't know how I can have the same relationship with them if they don't share my core values anymore. I mean, I used to go to my mom and sister for advice or support all the time, but I can't really do that anymore when I don't trust their advice to be spiritually sound.
It's all just really, really sad. I still spend time with them, but our relationship is very surface level now. I find it difficult to go deeper when I know we disagree on many core important beliefs.
@@CassTeaElle Same with me.
@@yankees4551 I'm sorry to hear that ❤
This was SO good. I can't wait to read this book. I especially loved Alisa's advice at 53:00+. Excellent. Thanks for doing this interview, Melissa, and thank you, Alisa and Tim, for writing this book on such an important topic.
So excited you tackled this! Looking forward to watching this. I just started watching.
This conversation has been very helpful to synthesize all that I have been feeling as I have observed the faith journey of so many in my church, particularly those belonging to Gen Y. Thank you so much! Keep up the good work of turning on the light where darkness has confused and wrecked the faith of some.
Hey Melissa!! Happy New Year!! Thanks so much for all u do! To God be the glory!❤
Really needed to hear this today, thank you so much for talking about this!
I can’t wait for this book. I follow all of you on social media and have found you have great wisdom and resources. Thanks for all you do for biblical Christianity.
Great interview and great advice from them both Melissa. Lack of church discipleship is the grave missing piece for believers today. We're all going to experience greater trials and challenges as we get closer to the day and love flowing out of the body of Christ to our brothers and sisters is crucial. God's best Melissa! Steve
At around 50 mins when Alisa began to say why people are confused when dealing with someone who is having a problem that they are unsure about how to help or address correctly, I immediately knew it is almost always an emotional problem the person is having and how scripture might be derailed because of their emotional crisis. The thing that I have recently come out of, and repented about and been healed by Christ, was a romantic love situation, although not engaging in sex, I was in that I told myself was perfectly alright when it was biblically wrong because we both have ungodly, narcissist husband or wife. We have separated because ultimately there was guilt but we still love each other and pray that one day we will be free to be together. Through it all, our faith in the word of God and his commandments was, and is, very strong and by these we forced ourselves to wait on the Lord because love is a gift of God. Our home lives are very painful and destructive because of each spouse, for us, but we still chose to honour God even though life is worse staying with the ungodly one and us not communicating in our love anymore. The heartache we both feel for missing each other is not going away. Btw, we are both around 60 years old, so it is really tough to go through. It is an emotional and spiritual crisis that people are having. Some like us experience strength from God’s word, while others abandon it.
Abba Father will heal you and carry you through ❤ I went through an abusive marriage with a young child. I had to leave because we were not safe. Abba made it VERY clear to me that I had to stay single because I had a living spouse. My relationship with The Lord is my everything. He truly is my husband. He comforts me and helps me through. He meets my needs and carries me through when my heart aches or I get lonely. He will do the same for you! I am so proud of you for loving Him and yourself enough to leave a sinful relationship with the other person. Ask Him to heal your heart and to change your spouse. Keep seeking Him for direction and wisdom. He will not fail you ❤
You made the right decision- ultimately we are to find our satisfaction in God and His love. Praying you can keep strong in this decision that honors God. Praying you can take it a step further and pray that God will transform your spouse into a person who loves the Lord and you can have a God-honoring marriage with 🙏 Praying for you!
@@musclemama3941 Thank you for your warm support. Only God knows what today may bring ❤️🙏✝️
Thank you for having this conversation in informing us what are some unbiblical trends that are going on with “christians” and inside the church. Planning on sharing this video with other leaders in my church, so they too can be informed.
I didn’t even know this was a thing! Very interesting, and definitely something to think about! Could this be why we are seeing so many leaving the church? So now, like Tim says, I can’t un see it! I want to know more, so I know how to pray and help someone who’s experiencing the deconstruction world. This breaks my heart. Thank you for sharing. ❤
How can you not? It's nothing new. The Bible speaks on it.
I hope you get to read the book they are talking about, soon. :) I am going to as well.
Thank you for this video. I pre-ordered the book and just read through the pdf download chapter. It is really good advice. Thank you God Bless All Y'all!!!!
I so love listening to you all for information as well as your friendship 😊
I was involved in churches where it was very much looked down upon to “question authority”. In other words if you questioned them you “were looked down upon” and you”were being rebellious!”
I was caught up in WOF and was fortunate to come back to Biblical Christianity through the grace of God. Thank you for this important video. I was under the postmodern sway for many years. Now it makes me want to throw up. Sigh. But it needs talking about.
I know people who watch too much Wheel Of Fortune too.
@@freeinhabitant2422 I know! They always solve everything without even having to buy one vowel. Disgraceful if you ask me.
Great discussion! Definitely helps me feel more equipped to deal with this challenge / attack we’re facing as a whole today.
The bottom line to a long story, my 37 year old daughter told me that she was not chosen, not elected by God. I’m maintaining the relationship with a gentle spirit. For me, that’s the Holy Spirit!
Good conversation, I've always found this topic to be rather 🧐. I think that I myself have even sometimes gone through certain stages of this deconstruction but have always come out on top in the end by remembering the love that God has for all of humanity by sending his son to be sacrificed for the sins that we committed. And that same love and patience that God had for us , we should have with one another.
Love that bottom line.
@@mramirez5239 so do I😎👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Abuse is abuse whether it at home, school, work or church - it is still abuse, mental emotoinal physical does not matter - The Holy Spirit abides inside of you, not in church building. Christians are requied to love one another - any abuse shoulid not be tolerated.
Melissa.... I stumbled across your channel today by accident. Until today, I have never even heard of Christian Deconstruction. I am, and have always believed in, the redemption of a loving god who forgives all and asks us to live a humble life in the example set by Jesus, my lord and savior. In my 50+ years of being raised/baptized evangelical and figthing against its own secular exstremism at the same time, I am relieved to discover there are others who openly question exactly what walking with the savior should, and doesn't, mean . Thank you for a wonderful gift. Blessings to you.
Thank you for giving language to these thoughts...
This is so interesting to me. For years I’ve been a part of an ongoing Christian fellowship which monthly studies a topics such as sin, grace, cultural and conversational apologetics while reading the amazing writings of Bonhoeffer, Tozer, CS lewis, Billy Graham, and more. Naturally, prayer and scripture are a huge part of this including scripture memorization, writing papers, meeting with a small group and a mentor to discuss the Word. For years, I have used the word deconstruction when talking about what it has done with my belief system. It has absolutely brought me closer to God and greatly deepened my faith, prayer life and helped me grow as a believer. But I use that word because I saw it as taking the basic, shallow knowledge I had of the faith from most of my church experience, broke it into small pieces, but did not remove any part of it. And then help me to analyze each part which answered countless questions. Nothing was taken away from the Bible or added to it in this. Perhaps reformation is another word, but every time I have shared the word deconstruction with others, it has opened the door for a very valuable conversation with both believers and unbelievers alike. I’ve always associated it with a very positive experience in this case.
I have also used it to describe my thinking and study work. I see it as a positive way to grow spiritually and a way to make the Christian story more personal. I studied deconstruction getting a master's in literature and used it to break down ideas and written word doing a close reading and taking into consideration context, culture, other views and writings, the author and their possible intent and so on. It can built up your faith. It is just about thinking deeply in a critical way-which doesn't necessarily mean criticizing. I have no fear of honest inquiry and am wary of being blindly indoctrinated.
These people are trying to turn the word deconstruction toxic because they want young Christians to be suspicious of anyone who is asking serious questions about their faith. They know that many people who have done this are not satisfied with the answers they got, and this led them out of the church. They can't think of any better answers, so...
Thanks Melissa, Alisa and Tim for bringing us this content. I think I was deconstructing before it was cool. So it does not surprise me it has become very common to 'question everything.' I still don't get how it leads people to athiesm, though. My prayer is that they would seek the wisdom of God and not human wisdom. And that they would find leaders that listen patiently but also stay firm on truth.
This is so good. Why did I not see this until right now? Great discussion. I will definitely look up this book. I've read all of Alisa's books so far!
If a person is in the process of deconstructing due to the historicity and lack of evidence throughout the old testament, what could you possibly tell them. If one is deconstructing from Christianity due to how their ancestors were introduced to Christianity, what could you tell them?
Very informative. Thank you.
it just occurred to me, that some aren't really looking for answers but a sortof loophole, so they can justify not believing anymore.
Wow a huge thanks for this interview. So many questions I had were answered.
I absolutely love this interview. I love you Melissa and I have mad respect for you and Alisa Childers. and now Tim!
Incredible people in The Lord!! ALL OF YOU.
Also, I can’t thank you enough for acknowledging the pain that people have gone through. This is such an important issue, that is often glossed over in the church, sadly.
I know that, in spite of our pain, ( Jesus NEVER forsakes us )and I have had plenty of my own, the betrayal out of the church in my own 20 year marriage was absolutely brutal. However, just the acknowledgment is so very helpful.
Bless you all!!
I am all over that book.
Also, Alisa Childers, you have inspired me so much in my pursuit of apologetics. It’s always been a desire of mine, but I am more actively pursuing it and it’s largely because of you.
Great video, love and greatly appreciate all three of these people. Such important work
Thanks for video. Very helpful and informative. Deconstruction is nothing more than Critical Theory Applied to Faith and the Christian walk. It’s Marxist at its core. I am currently in seminary and seeing this applied to some classes.
Spot on. Critical Christianity. Jacque Derrida all over again.
Marxism is a poison that is seeping into many areas. The goal is to deconstruct/destroy Western countries and culture by attacking foundational institutions such as marriage, Judeo/Christian religion, to give rise to socialist states where the state is god and those persons running the state have total power. If the citizens have an allegiance to any god, or religion above the State, that cannot be tolerated. Citizens must be sheep and obey only the State without question. Marxism only destroys. Look at Venezuela.
Boom !
Good show. I wasn't sure where it was going at the beginning but I enjoyed the showed and learned something.
Excellent interview! Melissa, you always ask the best questions. Thanks so much 👍👍
Thank you so much for going over this topic! I had a real light bulb moment talking about the relation to this and critical theory bc you made me realize that two people I have discussed theology with made that exact argument and at the time it threw me off kilter bc they were completely disregarding scripture and facts to argue that the Bible and church were trying to control people!
Great conversation that brings me more clarity on this sad topic. Thank you for your insight & advice.
This was awesome, also I just want to applaud your interviewing skills! You are so great at it!
This is all part of what Jesus warned us. All part of the plan for the future Great Falling Away....
Thanks for sharing this with us. I am ordering the book !
I recently had a Pastor who was moved on from his position in our church family that I feel has gone and been going through this "deconstruction" Every thing is and was challenged and not in love to the point I unfriended and unfollowed the person due to the toxic nature of their own falling apart so to speak.
Fabulous interview. Can't wait to read the book!
I listen to Melissa and Alisa all the time, but have never actually heard of Tim Barnett. Nice to hear a fellow Canadian (it was the abouts for me). 😊
Such a good, important discussion. Thank you all 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Bruce Gore does it too.. teaches after a service and have ppl ask questions or share their insights. It’s really cool. He’s a good teacher..
This is such an important interview. Thank you all so much 🙏🙏🙏
Great interview! When y'all mentioned 'Anti-intellectualism' I immediately thought of J.P. Morelands book "Love Your God With All Your Mind" he speaks so much on that topic. Also, when Tim spoke about 'inerrancy', I am reading a book on that right now "Five views on Biblical Inerrancy" it gives different peoples views on inerrancy. While I was reading it, I found out that inerrancy wasn't really challenged until the end of the 17th century. Guess what was happening around that time, the age of enlightenment. Which brought in rationalism. Saying we didn't need the scriptures for knowledge anymore. It all just comes together.
Thank you Melissa, and Tim and Alisa. Really enjoyed listening. Love the show.
These are extremely important discussions as I'm listening I rejoice in Christ my savior I'm saved like a little child I put my trust in the finished work of the cross I'm loved and protected as I humble myself before the living God john 10 talks about my sheep hear my voice and follow me and nothing can snatch me from the hand of Jesus also nothing can snatch me from my father's hand who is greater then all.
Thank you for this! Just pre ordered the book.
Thank you so much for covering this subject ❤🙏
Thank you thank you for putting this out there!!
Much appreciation for you delving into this topic. As a person with a lot of miles on my odometer, I am concerned about people leaving their faith. Along with the prevailing cultural influences that contribute to this phenomena, I see something else. The church itself in many ways has divorced itself from intellectual pursuit and the search for truth in favor of emotional appeals. For thinking persons, there isn’t much beneath the thin veneer to satisfy the intellect. Add to that the aesthetics of the church today with its rock concert services replete with smoke machines and rah, rah, music and light shows and the whole scene is simply not worshipful. Many in the senior citizen cohort have also deconstructed after trying to go along to get along, but eventually they quietly tend to go away, at least that’s what I’ve observed. I have more questions than answers about all of this, but I am so pleased to see a serious conversation about all of this - it is encouraging. Best to you as as you continue to discuss the reason for the hope that is within you.
When you say "the church" who exactly are you referring to?
Christianity has been splintered for as long as i've been alive. I go to a lutheran church and then I go to a baptist church and then I go to an evangelical non denom And they have very little in common. Some differences are major some are minor, They often feel like completely different religions.
So when people say "the church" I have no idea what they're talking about......
The pentecostal church I used to go to is nothing like The calvary chapel I've been frequenting lately.
I just don't understand how you can consider them all united under Christ
@@MultipleGrievance Thanks. My frame of reference here was the evangelical strain of Christendom in America. Those would be too many to name, but I hope that helps clarify.
@@bruceschultz8674
A bit.
Even they aren't united however.
The weird thing is even those who stick to the mainstream orthodox bodies call thier groups "the church"
I have been researching some what basic topic for my son, who has done what yall speak on, he speaks negatively of the "Protestant" movement but as Ms Alisa mentioned, our child has moved towards Orthodoxy, where we have been discussing the beliefs back and forth. We continually pray for clairty and wisdom for our us and our child. I read the article from these two in the Gospel Coalition article and makes a bit more sense, especially with today's society, where nearly everything is being redifined and new "words" means something else. We wonder what the "crisis" for our child ... it was him trying to be an apologetic online with his "online" friends, he would debate muslims but unfortunately we did not watch/monitor closely enough, not being able to research who his online supporting friends were ... now we know and working towards, we hope God will provide His wisdom to all of us. thank you for this video
This is a great discussion and I love seeing what God is doing with each of the guests. I pray God continues to pour out His revelation on those that are true believers.
Always love your videos. Give so much information & understanding
Thank y’all, all’a y’all 😊🙏🏻💞✝️
I needed to hear this interview - thank you
My husband started deconstructing ten years ago, along with most of his family when one of his brothers ‘came out’. His family was the model Christian family his whole life up until that point.
I can tell you from experience that everything they said in this video is true.
I also want to share that there is hope. My dad essentially deconstructed before I was even born. 30 years later I watched him change and struggle with God in a real way, and he became a Christian. When he met my mom he was a pastor and by all appearances seemed a true Christian, but he would say he never was. I hope that many people who thought they were Christians and have deconstructed will actually experience God in a way some day that will truly change their hearts. Then God can say one day that He truly knows them.
What a testimony he and you have to share.
I grew up Christian and left at the age of 20 after my brother had come out. 15 years later I started to search and question, eventually coming back to the truth of God’s word. I still love my brother and know that God loves him too, but I don’t see myself as less fallible than my brother in God’s eyes and that’s the fundamental shift that helped me to reconcile the two.
I'm trying hard to understand the distinction between “reformation” and “deconstruction”. The host said, “When you are 'reforming' your faith you have your Bible in your hand.” So does that mean that if some of what one is questioning centers around the Bible itself, such a process is by definition NOT reformation? On the other hand the idea that “deconstruction is looking for exit” seems like a really harsh judgment to put on those who are engaged in the deep, sincere, and painful process of looking for Truth. It seems almost like the panel is saying that it's “reformation” (the good kind of questioning) when the searcher ends up agreeing with them, and it's “deconstruction” (the bad kind of questioning) when the searcher ends up disagreeing with evangelical orthodoxy. Am I being unfair? If so, help me understand.
Wow, you have really (unintentionally it would seem) hit it on the button.
I think a good way to look at it is that "reformation" is looking for "the truth" regardless if it turns out to be something you want it to say or not ; and "deconstruction" is looking for "your truth" with the ultimate outcome of making your faith align with what you want it to say.
@@chelsealovingbooks5961 Thanks for responding. So you're saying that "reformation" COULD end in leaving the faith?
I suppose theoretically it could, but there is just too much evidence and support for Biblical truth that I can't imagine that anyone truly seeking would ever end up turning away from God.@@user-bz2wm4ks6y
Great interview! Happy New Year's & God bless from Germany 🙂💫
Excellent conversation. I gleaned some great insights from this
Found this video and decided to watch- I’m trying to be open minded and get some answers to my questions, because I’ve been wrestling with what I was raised to believe… Then the multiple plugs to sell their books and to “reserve your copy early” just left me with an ick feeling.
When I first heard about this deconstruction movement, I gain a negative reservation more I heard people describe it. This video proved my intuition was right.