I'm 72 and came out of Hagen and Copeland revivals. I went to Bethel Redding before Bill Johnson took over. The thing where I got a lost was not feeling worthy to hear from God and when after a long journey the Lord showed me He loved me He died for me and I didn't need an intermediary to let me know what God had for me. The word is the life line He gave me. Praise His Name.❤
That is an amazing testimony. It goes to show when the gospel is preached given by heretics. Who are self-serving and apostate people still can hear the word of God and be saved.
I'm glad you got away from them. They don't hear from God as they claim. People don't visit Heaven as frequent as we go to the restroom. The greatest Christian that ever lived said it was unlawful for him to speak about what he saw in Glory. Since God doesn't change, he isn't involved in the Heavenly tourism that many claim to participate. I love hearing from God through the Bible. It's amazing how specific the Lord is when he communicates with us again through his word. God Bless you 🙏.
Its not so much that he's especially learned or particularly great a scholar, a lot of guys have that much learning. Its that he's so earnest, humble, gentle, and winsome in his approach.
@believer8793 He's very familiar with church history, if you listen to him. That's his job, translating ancient languages not only for the gospels but from the early 1st & 2nd century church & on. I think what you've been told about church history doesn't align with what Wes is saying. Difference is Wes studies this stuff not only as a hobby, but as a career..
@ He is all over the place and speaking on things he is not familiar with… He does not want to debate any Catholic scholars. He is saying things he knows she wants to hear…
It baffles me that thirty years after I first heard these fallacious arguments, people are still spouting the same nonsense and thinking that they are disproving the authenticity of Scripture. Next, some "smart" guy is going to discover the "secret hidden " gospel of Barnabas, I guess.
@Doris1888 I was using a random allusion to a writing that no one believes is legitimate but seems to get people who know nothing about Biblicall History excited when they first discover it. And while one is superior to the other as a document, neither is accepted as Canon, but I am not going to dialogue about that here. Blessings.
@@Just_a_Reflection Well the Epistle of Barnabas which was probably written late into the first century didn't make it into the Bible but was referred to often by the early church so it's history might be considered legitimate historically but not inspired. However, the Gospel of Barnabas was written about the 15th or 16th century and basically discredits Christianity in favor of the Muslim religion. Hardly a gospel about Jesus Christ.
@Doris1888 You are exactly right. Clement of Alexandria reportedly accepted the Epistle, and it is important because it gives a view of how early Jewish Christians segued from Rabbinical Judaism to Christianity, though it was later investigated and found to not be sound and not inspired, primarily due to it's Gnostic undertones, similar to the Shepherd of Hermas. The Gospel of Barnabas is Gnostic garbage written in the Middle Ages with absolutely no real value. My point is that I was making an offhand allusion, which wasn't central to my offhand comment.
Listened to this whole teaching while I did my day after Christmas cleaning up. Melissa your content is always instructive. And it’s always filled with nothing but truth and I appreciate that so much. I’m so careful anymore about only listening to videos that are truthful and use Scripture to back it up. Thank you and hope your family had a very Merry Christmas and will have a blessed New Year.
Me too. I watched this when it was first uploaded, without know "Wes Huff". Then the Billy Carson/Wes Huff debate appeared in my feed, and I ignored it for two weeks before clicking on it. It was only then that I realized I had seen him before, right here! But I had never heard of B* C* before. It's amazing how it has taken Wes 8 years of video uploads and countless interviews to become an overnight sensation! I'm really looking forward to the Joe Rogan interview.
The more versions of the Bible I read, and the more I explore Scripture, the more certain I am that God can - and does - preserve his Word. I offer the words of Shakespeare: "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves for we walk about as underlings."
There is no reason we cannot thoughtfully and prayerfully read other Scriptures that were taken out of the Bible Cannon. Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22; woe to those who add to or take from this word!
It's always a joy to hear Wes speak about the Bible. He's so knowledgeable and yet so humble and patient with questions. Thanks for inviting him to this discussion, Melissa!
He also mischaracterises historical information. If he is so confident with his sources. He needs to sit with a Catholic scholar and let us see how he fares. I have watched a few of his videos. Mixing some lies in a lot of truth still makes it a lie. He can do better
In regards to the Bible: "We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists; that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them; and that otherwise we should know nothing at all about it. " Martin Luther
I don't know, why change it & take whole books out? 1500 years they were determined to be inspired by God, but Luther comes around, says they don't belong & it's all agreed he's correct about that? But what does the bible say about changing even one iota of scripture? Yet people follow him & his traditions, his 'truths' but it concerns me how he tortured & killed people for not following his reforms.The council of Trent corrected the abuses he was so rightly concerned about. So it seems he had some newfound traditions of his own, for right reasons maybe but why torture & kill others? I think in his later years there were some health & mental issues he had to deal with, because he did change his beliefs on certain things.., For instance; at first he was adamantly concerned that Jews be treated with respect & kindness but later changed & wanted them all unlived? That's what my research tells me anyway 😢
Wow, that was really great. Wesley is way awesome. Thanks for having him on and dialoging around all this, very interesting. I learned much from him during this.
it is the promulgation by pope damasus in 380 that defined the canon of the bible, all 73 books in the catholic church that the roman church had always used. the latin vulgate was commissioned in part to define and circumscribe the allowed books to the exclusion of the non-canonical books, which by this time had proliferated. this canon was repeated by hippo and carthage, and this canon was unchanged until luther came along.
As Christians we remain human, and pride can result in resistance to change. We do not like being wrong, or being duped. Loyalty, also can play a role in denial.
Wes, you have to know that there are many Catholic scholars who disagree with you on the Deuterocanon. I think I speak for many others when I say I would love to see you have a discussion with a Catholic scholar about it
Well I think all the Catholics should get together and look at the work of Ivan Panin and then ask themselves do our books have this anti-counterfeit underlying numeric called the Heptadic structure..Which Wes never even mentions by the way but it exist nonetheless and there is your answer no the Catholic books do not nor does any other work which separates the Bible from every other work
Jerome = saint and bishop in the Catholic Church Augustine = saint and bishop in the Catholic Church Monastery = home of Catholic monks Vulgate = full bible as recognized by the Church by the entire church since it was formed except by heretics. Septuagint = Greek translation before Christ which contains deuterocanical
This man has been blessed with such an immense amount of knowledge and wisdom. This video is going to take me 3 days to work through. My hand is cramping from pausing to take allllll of the notes
I've been getting new channels in my feed ever since I first heard of Wes because someone posted his Rogan interview talking about the Billy Carson debate. Loved this video as well and am adding you to my list.
I am "protestant" and consider the Deuterocanon to be inspired. Wisdom of Solomon has strong prophecies about Jesus, and some of the other books may also have some. Jesus called 1 Enoch scripture when talking to the Sadducees. He is kind of calling Tobit scripture as well as the Sadducees messed up the details of the story from Tobit. Feast of dedication in Maccabees was resuming animal sacrifices in the temple, lighting the menorah, decorating the temple with gold- there is no mention of oil lasting 8 days- that is the traditions of men that make the bible a myth if they were true. Maccabees contains fulfilled prophecies from Zechariah, Isaiah, Daniel, and possibly other books. 2 Maccabees 2 contains a prophecy about the day of Pentecost, and Revelation 11.
I didn’t hear an argument against the Council Of Nicaea being the first to acknowledge the canon of scripture. Only that they would have known what the canon was going to be before they ever convened. The true argument is that the Council did not arbitrarily choose which books were in and which were out, but chose them based on long experience of Christians around the world prior to their meeting.
He said that that’s not even what they discussed and by the time the council came to be the books of the Bible where already chosen. Since the 2nd century. It’s been established.
Here’s his main “myths” in order so there can be a proper discussion: Myth #1: The Bible was compiled at the Council of Nicaea, where books were excluded. • Huff clarifies that the Council of Nicaea (325 AD) did not address the biblical canon; its primary focus was on Christological issues. • Myth #2: The Bible has changed over time, with books being removed and texts altered, leading to differences between the Catholic and Protestant Bibles. • He explains that while the Catholic Bible includes additional books (the Deuterocanonical books), the core canon has remained consistent. • Myth #3: The Roman Catholic Church gave us the Bible. • Huff argues that the development of the biblical canon was a gradual process involving the early Christian community, not solely the Roman Catholic Church. • Myth #4: The King James Bible is the best and most accurate translation. • He discusses the strengths and limitations of the King James Version, noting that while it has historical significance, modern translations benefit from more recent scholarship. • Myth #5: The Book of Enoch belongs in the Bible. • Huff explains that the Book of Enoch was not included in the Jewish or Christian canons, though it holds historical interest.
In some of these cases Wes provides helpful nuance to correct popular misconceptions, but in other respects I don't think he is successful in taking into account all the sources into account and presenting an unbiased, scholarly picture and instead perpetuates a number of other myths. The recent 'Myth Busting' video responding to this one on the Apocrypha Apocalypse channel points to a number of cases where Wes's statements are just factually incorrect here.
keep em coming Melissa! I want your long form content! If you could, also give us your full talks! Ive seen your youtube shorts and the speech clip is phenomenal and I want more. Please keep giving us long stuff - whether its conversations/podcasts or just you going on a long speech. 30 minutes to 3 hours is fantastic and keep doing this great stuff!
@@andrewbrossman9902 Who Im interested in is Melissa. She clearly has been given Wisdom and an articulate mouth from God. Her view is what I want more of rather than information.
@@foolish_god Nothing against Mellisa. I like her channel. I was mentioning that you want to know more about the deutercannon, there is a TH-cam channel called the apocalypse apocrypha. The New Testament cannon is closed. The Old Testament cannon, not really.
@@andrewbrossman9902 What did I say about the deutercannon or scriptural cannon? I didn't speak about it. Yet you come to me telling me to check out someone I never gave interest for. My focus has been on Melissa, not the content. My focus is on a person, not ideas. Go away and stop being a fool. Come back when Wisdom is on your lips. You do not listen to advice as is clear when you come to me and tell me what to do. You do not care to understand my words, you only care to air your opinion.
Huff might be an expert on New Testament archaeology, but this nonsense about the 9th century being the actual birth of modern-day Catholicism... what a take. I have more respect for a Mormon who believes the church fell into immediate apostasy following the death of John.
Great respectful way of explaining the KJV! I was a KJV only person until around 2010ish I taught myself Greek to prove the pastor wrong fortunately I learned it's good and other translations are not for the most part wrong! The study turned me to ESV
That's strange as I learned Hebrew and Greek, and my professors edited the ESV. After 28 years and several translations later, it only confirmed of how accurate the King James is.
JESUS LUVS!!! BE CAREFUL OF Bibles that are "paraphrases", that means something is left out! the living Bible is a personal paraphrase not a translation! BE BLESSED!!!
Who do you think Jesus' followers were? Have you read Gods word? They established "congregations" or churches or places of meeting. What of ancient Israel? They, too, were united in worship of God, not allowed to do as they felt was right--until they strayed. Who do you think are the "faithful and discreet slave"? Why do you think "elders" and "older men" and "overseer" are written of? How about of "those taking the lead"? That means there must be an established organization for Gods name on Earth: God is a God of organization and order. God must have a worldwide unified organization and you wont find it on these TH-cam channels.
Yes true but without the body of Christ ww are nothing. We need fellowship in person. We are not meant to be solo Christians on a virtual techno island. Aa helpful as this is, that i can'tdeny, because I am here and reedily benefit from this, I need in person interaction as best I can with the church.
Melissa Dougherty and Wesley Huff takes on 5 Myths about the Bible only to end up affirming other myths. Gary Michuta critiques two of their myths (The Council of Nicaea and the canon, The Bible has changed over time and "Catholics have a different Bible than we do"). January 10 2025
If Jesus and the Apostles adopted the Jewish/Protestant canon, then *why do we find so many of citations from the early Church quoting the Deuterocanon explicitly as Scripture or using to confirm doctrine?* Here's a sampling: Epistle of Barnabas (ch 6) - Wis 2:12 Clement of Rome - Wis 12:12 Shepherd of Hermas - 2 Mac 7:28 Athenagoras - Baruch 3:36 Irenaeus - Wis 6:18-19; Baruch generally and specifically 3:39-4:1 Tertullian - Wis 1:6, 2:12; Maccabees generally Clement of Alexandria - Sir 21:7, 20, 23:19, 39:26-27; Wis 3:1-6, 6:17-19, 16:26; Tob 4:15 Hippolytus - Baruch 3:36; Wisdom as a whole; 2 Mac 2:6ff; Tobit; Daniel/Susanna Cyprian - Wisdom at least 3 times; Sirach at least 4 times; Tob 4:5-11, 12:8-9, 12-15; 2 Mac 6:30 Origen - Wisdom at least 9 times; Sirach at least 13 times; 2 Mac 7 and then generally once as "Scripture history"; Susanna (book of Daniel) as part of "divine catalog"; Judith (9:2); Tobit; "they summon the book of Baruch the prophet to bear witness to this assertion" -De Principiis (Book II) ( The whole Deuterocanon apparently! ) Athanasius - Wisdom at least 8 times; Sir 15:9; Judith 8:16; Bar 3:12; Tob 12:7 Source: mostly Michuta's The Case for the Deuterocanon with over 100 pages of such citations/quotations
@@theunstopablegoat bro somehow doesn't realize that the video doesn't address my question at that timestamp. Also, Jerome actually did quote the Deuteros late in life as inspired Scripture, demonstrating a change of heart and ultimate submission to the Catholic Church on the issue. Huff doesn't actually know what he's talking about, just repeating the same old myths and falsehoods. Gary Michuta has thoroughly debunked these Protestant talking points. Check out his books and videos for real primary source analysis.
@@theunstopablegoat So the early Church fathers quoted the Deuteros *_explicitly as inspired/prophetic Scripture/Word of God and/or to confirm doctrine_* because "the Jews knew about these books"?? That's the supposed answer to my question?? So on the canon we should obey the "authority" of 2nd century Jews who rejected Jesus and the New Testament rather than the authority of those the Apostles taught and ordained as their successors and the next generation of apostolic successors?? That's your logic?
I've been reading the Church Fathers and how the early Church functioned. I can see how the claim that "the Catholic Church is reading these things into the past" can work. But honestly though, something that seems clear to me is that back then there was apostolic succession. The bishops had authority. Rome had kind of a primacy going on. And the Church was this united church where the bishops were constantly looking after and defending it against heresies. The councils were made to fight them and define important things about the faith. It seems to me that there was an authority going on in the Church...
There was government in the 1st century church, but there is NEVER a such thing in the Bible as apostolic succession. Idc what the "church fathers" had to say about it. The Bible shows how the early church functioned, and IT is the only reliable source for what the 1st century church believed and practiced.
One church had a tendency to take people they didn't like and tie them to a bundle of sticks and fire them..... Probably safe to say they also burned a lot of paper too. So if a lot of church writings seem to support the church that liked burning things and people, there might be a reason why.
@@IndianaJoe0321 Hello! Yeah, I've seen how some were extremely knowledgeable in the philosophy ideas of that time. However, I would like to hear more of your reasoning.
....it didn't take long for Rome to be a problem to the rest of the church. Bishop Stephen in the mid second century was promoting a non-trinitaraian position, and Rome started trying to assert itself as the chief church above all the other Bishops. It would take centuries but it was the last for power that convinced the church in the East to severe ties with the church in Rome.
Oh by the way Melissa I want to complement you on your interviewing skills. You let your guest do most of the talking and had a clear agenda and stayed on topic and asked only clarifying questions that were in the scope of the interview. Rabbit trails can be fun and interesting but they can keep you from achieving your overall goals. Too many TH-camrs and Podcasters have chaotic interviews and there is way too much cross talk and meandering off topic. 1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Dr. Michael Heiser provides a very good explanation of Enoch only in that it gives the reader a slightly more comprehensive view that the ancient Hebrews world view didn't refute the existence of other divine beings but rather communicates that Yahweh the Lord of Hosts was the sovereign over all creation and the sons of God are indeed divine beings (some of which had fallen and begun to be worshiped by other nations as deities like the Greek, Roman, Indian, Norse, pantheons among all the other nations.) But the Hebrews doubled down that Yahweh alone was the only divine being which was due adoration or worship.
I have a question for @WesHuff or Melissa: If Wes's claim about the Catholic Church was established in the 9th century it's true, what "church" out of the 45,000 "Christian Denominations" determined the Biblical Canon? Lutheran? Anglican? Methodist? Pentecostal? Baptist? Pentecostal?
Firstly, the Council of Trent that responded to compositional critiques of the Bible decreed the canon of scripture by affirming the exact list of books named as scripture by the Council of Rome in 382. Secondly, I agree that it's not true to say that "The Catholic Church gave us the Bible" (which by my estimation is a polemical response aimed mostly as a criticism of Sola Scriptura), but I would say that it's equally wrong to say that "The Bible gave us the Church". The reality is that God gave us both the apostles and their successors AND the books of scripture directly. They're not in competition for supremacy but work in unison for the glory of God.
It seems like you're aiming for a kind of catch-22, but it doesn't really work. Yes, the New Testament contains a collection of apostolic writings that are, in fact, the only writings in the Apostolic works genre that are the inspired word of God. It doesn't follow that they're the only writings of the apostles and their successors, nor that they're the only writings of merit to the spiritual life. To assume so is to erase the works of the early church fathers. What's more, the Bible doesn't come with an infallible decoder ring. There's no getting around that whatever you read in the Bible needs to be interpreted: either by you by your own lights, by some member of a splinter denomination assuming a pastoral role, or by light of the teaching authority of the apostolic tradition of Christ's church.
@@cerickNY so your church pick what shuld be in the bible? in fact no proof that a 66 book was already being use by people in the second up to the 3rd century
@@UMAKEMESMILESWACKIN Not quite. The church identified what works were inspired by God and what works were not, thus giving us scriptural canon. I'm also not sure what you're trying to say with the second sentence. The four earliest codices we have of the Bible all contain at least some of the Deuterocanonical books in them.
Speaking as an ex-Catholic, Wes' approach to Catholicism and its entrenched presuppositions is the best one. Speaking from experience working with Catholics, if you wanna see someone dig in their heels and stubbornly substitute their presups for truth, tell that Catholic that they're wrong and that you can prove it from history.
I'm sorry, but it is in Protestantism with respect to the canon of the Bible that I see a lot of presupposition being done in order to reach the conclusion of the 66 book canon. Wes does not accurately reflect how much dispute there actually was over the canon when he represents it as settle early and apart from any Church authority. If an objective scholar didn't presuppose the 66 books and tried to develop a method to decide what is the canon there is really no way of coming about it that doesn't involve making ad-hoc rules to get to the desired conclusion.
Same. I was a protestant for 30 years and for the last 15 years I have been Catholic and this is the first time that I ever heard that anyone claims this.
Wes failed to mention from the get go the bishops at Nicaea were under Roman imperial rule, but the decisions made at the council were religious in nature and represented the collective authority of the Church leaders, with the Emperor facilitating rather than controlling theological outcomes. Kind of important to clarify ‘Ecumenical’ as if there were different churches.
I actually feel like I'm listening to run around arguments. Wes Huff needs to debate a real Catholic apologist. Robert Sungenis, Gary MIchuta, William Albrecht... Sam Shamoun ( A man after my own Heart)!
“A man after my own heart” beautifully said. 😊 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” 2 Timothy 4:3
Hi Melissa, The primary reason I became curious about the book of Enoch a few years ago was because Jude quotes from Enoch. I listened to Wes' discussion of the book of Enoch twice, and was surprised that he did not mention Jude's quote in verses 14-15.
Jude quotes the MAN Enoch, not the book. If you compare the two, they are not even identical. Quoted scripture is never wrong, it is verbatim. Jesus always said, "You have read," or, "It is written," when quoting/referencing scripture--Jude doesn't do that. The Book of Enoch is not inspired of God, and it actually contradicts itself AND the bible.
@@boromirofmiddleearth557 Yep. The "Apocrypha Apocalypse" channel has a lot of great information on the topic. I recommend looking at some of the oldest videos on the channel to get some of the fundamentals on the topic; but one in particular in answer to your question is titled "Who Removed Books from Protestant Bibles?"
@@jolynarterbury1980 The question was on who removed them. Whether anyone state that they are apocryphal or not, you'll have to be more specific, different groups labeled differently. Some, including Calvin, even continued to cite some passages from books like Baruch as Scripture in with Luther's calling some parts of them inspired and other books including Esther uninspired, and from there different groups had different opinions.
Though Hahn is an excellent scholar on the contents of Scripture, in my opinion a specialist on the topic of the canon itself would be a better candidate for a discussion with Huff, such as Gary Mitchuta.
Great episode. One thing I would offer about the value of being familiar with the book of Enoch is that it puts us closer to understanding the general mindset of the second Temple era Jewish audience that Jesus and his disciples were teaching. Michael Heiser does a great job of illuminating this. He does agree that the book of Enoch is in no way to be considered as “ missing from the Canon.“
Enoch 1 is most likely the first comic book ever written. Ironically, Stan Lee stole a lot of material from the scriptures: The Creator, The Watchers, "With great power, comes great responsibility (to whom much is given, much is required)". I agree that reading Enoch is a good idea because it is referenced by Peter and Jude, but that's about it. Great interview, Little Sister!
How can it be comic when there are verses in scripture that reference the book of Enoch and quote from it just like how they also reference the books they decided to take away without proper permission or authority because none of them prayed for guidance from the Holy spirit who inspired the letters and also non of them asked God for confirmation they went based on their own understanding for the sake of peace and destroying the truth in the process
@@adeclipse_sa to suggest that scripture quotes from the book of enoch is to assume that the book of enoch is older than those books in scripture, which is a massive assumption. sure, its written as though it is older and the character is older, but as stated in this interview the oldest compiled book of enoch is from the 15th century. there are also things stated in enoch which are directly against scripture, so theres that
@@junk3996 , it is not scripture. Most scholars think that the first sections of 1 Enoch were written 3 centuries before Jesus ' birth. Scrolls of Enoch were found at Qumra (Dead Sea Scrolls), which are thought to be from 2 centuries BC.
@@adeclipse_sa my point is, that it is like a fantastic work of fiction like a graphic novel we would see in the realm of comic book literature today. I'm not sure to whom you are referring, when you mention books being taken out?
Can you possibly consider inviting/interviewing qualified representatives from Apostolic churches, Orthodox, Church of the east, Coptic church, Church of Rome (Roman Catholic Church), if possible Armenian Church, Ethiopian Church? There is no rush, it would really be appreciated to hear what the Apostolic churches have to say on the same topic, instead of listening to protestants talking about the Apostolic churches. After all, the Council mentioned was The Church, not just The Church of Rome, representatives from all over came to that Council. Politely suggesting this approach to this topic.
Yes, I would love hearing an apologists rebuttle some of the points he is making here that ought to he rebutted. Especially his point about the Councils merely recognizing scripture. They recognized alot of things but you don't see Protestants accepting them. I feel there is a bit of pick and choose when they agree with the Councils over the Bibles canon. Then ignore other things reached at the Councils consensus like baptismal regeneration.
Absolutely excellent watch and Wes Huff along with Dr Ken Johnson are my go to Biblical scholars. Wes has really made a name for himself lately especially after the Billy Carson debate. So many people are rethinking their beliefs after that video.
This is so interesting. I have studied and written papers on all five of these topics. A frustration comes with talking to people about them because most have heard something, but are not well studied. I don't get very deep into converations with those who either have a vague, or no idea, what is in different bibles or how they came about. Some talks devolve into an exchange of talking points. Infrequently, someone gets really mad if you bring scholarly sources into it. I won't carry on a discussion where someone wants to duel with bumper sticker slogans. Pearls before swine.
Fantastic. I enjoyed this video so much. Having heard the input from your guest, I feel so much less unknowing about the myths you two discussed. Awesome, I think.
Unfortunately, while this video discusses a number of myths and misconceptions, it also perpetuates some. The Apocrypha Apocalypse channel just did a good "Myth Busting" video response to this one to address it.
![Who Wrote the Gospels? (with Wesley Huff) [Spotify link in description!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZgzTbq-xjp0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Who Wrote the Gospels? (with Wesley Huff) [Spotify link in description!]](/img/tr.png)
Who is here after the Billy Carson Debate 😊
🙋♀️
Me
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I’ve seen clips on what do you meme’s channel. I’d already knew about this one, but I had no idea she had a connection to him. 😮👍
Me!
Melissa, I love that you present a question and allow the guest to speak fully rather than trying to express your intellect. Beautiful job.
I'm 72 and came out of Hagen and Copeland revivals. I went to Bethel Redding before Bill Johnson took over. The thing where I got a lost was not feeling worthy to hear from God and when after a long journey the Lord showed me He loved me He died for me and I didn't need an intermediary to let me know what God had for me. The word is the life line He gave me. Praise His Name.❤
Bible Belt babe here ! Yes 😊
Amen! 🙌💗🕊
That is an amazing testimony. It goes to show when the gospel is preached given by heretics. Who are self-serving and apostate people still can hear the word of God and be saved.
I'm glad you got away from them. They don't hear from God as they claim. People don't visit Heaven as frequent as we go to the restroom. The greatest Christian that ever lived said it was unlawful for him to speak about what he saw in Glory. Since God doesn't change, he isn't involved in the Heavenly tourism that many claim to participate. I love hearing from God through the Bible. It's amazing how specific the Lord is when he communicates with us again through his word. God Bless you 🙏.
Truly, The Word’s of The LORD GOD are not only alive and living, but they also have the power to bring back life to the dead!
Its not so much that he's especially learned or particularly great a scholar, a lot of guys have that much learning. Its that he's so earnest, humble, gentle, and winsome in his approach.
I'd say it's both. Not sure why you're trying to insinuate he isn't a good scholar. Weird
@@jonathansoko1085 I'd say you need to learn to read English.
When you say that he is not particularly knowledgeable or a great scholar, can you provide examples of renowned scholars who are highly learned?
@@tcl379 I did not say that he is not knowledgeable or a great scholar. I was noting that his personality and approach is even more important.
@@christophertaylor9100 These folks are being weirdly combative for no reason. I understood your comment and agree wholeheartedly.
I totally broke out in laugher when Wes said, " my wife is sick of these conversations!"
As I sit and listen to Wess for hours...😂😅
I love it when Wes nerds out! It's wholesome & you can tell he loves what he does!
Same his eyes light up like a kid on Xmas it’s amazing to see
Sorry to inform you that Wes is very ignorant of Church history. Or lying. And I think she can see through that.
@believer8793 He's very familiar with church history, if you listen to him. That's his job, translating ancient languages not only for the gospels but from the early 1st & 2nd century church & on.
I think what you've been told about church history doesn't align with what Wes is saying. Difference is Wes studies this stuff not only as a hobby, but as a career..
@ He is all over the place and speaking on things he is not familiar with… He does not want to debate any Catholic scholars. He is saying things he knows she wants to hear…
@ read the fathers for yourself
I am never disappointed with your content and interviews. This was fascinating and will be watching at least one more time.
It baffles me that thirty years after I first heard these fallacious arguments, people are still spouting the same nonsense and thinking that they are disproving the authenticity of Scripture. Next, some "smart" guy is going to discover the "secret hidden " gospel of Barnabas, I guess.
Do you mean the Gospel of Barnabas or the Epistle of Barnabas? Those are two different books.
@Doris1888 I was using a random allusion to a writing that no one believes is legitimate but seems to get people who know nothing about Biblicall History excited when they first discover it. And while one is superior to the other as a document, neither is accepted as Canon, but I am not going to dialogue about that here. Blessings.
@@Just_a_Reflection Well the Epistle of Barnabas which was probably written late into the first century didn't make it into the Bible but was referred to often by the early church so it's history might be considered legitimate historically but not inspired. However, the Gospel of Barnabas was written about the 15th or 16th century and basically discredits Christianity in favor of the Muslim religion. Hardly a gospel about Jesus Christ.
@Doris1888 You are exactly right. Clement of Alexandria reportedly accepted the Epistle, and it is important because it gives a view of how early Jewish Christians segued from Rabbinical Judaism to Christianity, though it was later investigated and found to not be sound and not inspired, primarily due to it's Gnostic undertones, similar to the Shepherd of Hermas. The Gospel of Barnabas is Gnostic garbage written in the Middle Ages with absolutely no real value. My point is that I was making an offhand allusion, which wasn't central to my offhand comment.
@@Just_a_Reflection Gotcha!👍
Everything Wes Huff is popping up, now that he’s had that debate with Billy Carson.
Because everyone flooded his channel and boosted views. The algorithm is boosting him now. God bless.
Well deserved
Praise God 🙌
Bro is the Jack Reacher of biblical scholarship 😁😂
wes is no scholar
he let his protestant side get the better of him
Listened to this whole teaching while I did my day after Christmas cleaning up. Melissa your content is always instructive. And it’s always filled with nothing but truth and I appreciate that so much. I’m so careful anymore about only listening to videos that are truthful and use Scripture to back it up. Thank you and hope your family had a very Merry Christmas and will have a blessed New Year.
Rewatching after his Billy Carson debate. Even better the second time through!
I agree 😂
Me too. I watched this when it was first uploaded, without know "Wes Huff". Then the Billy Carson/Wes Huff debate appeared in my feed, and I ignored it for two weeks before clicking on it. It was only then that I realized I had seen him before, right here! But I had never heard of B* C* before. It's amazing how it has taken Wes 8 years of video uploads and countless interviews to become an overnight sensation! I'm really looking forward to the Joe Rogan interview.
Have you seen the Apocrypha Apocalypse 'Myth Busting' response to this video as well?
Wes Huff brought me here and I’m glad he did.
I am so excited to see Wesley Huff as your guest! Thank you. His knowledge has always impressed me. I learn so much each time. :)
The more versions of the Bible I read, and the more I explore Scripture, the more certain I am that God can - and does - preserve his Word. I offer the words of Shakespeare: "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves for we walk about as underlings."
What do you know of the New testament?
Nailed it Tim
There is no reason we cannot thoughtfully and prayerfully read other Scriptures that were taken out of the Bible Cannon.
Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22; woe to those who add to or take from this word!
The NIV is straight out of the pit of Hell.
Melissa, this was soooooo good, thank you. I actually will watch it more than once as there is so much info to absorb!!!
It's always a joy to hear Wes speak about the Bible. He's so knowledgeable and yet so humble and patient with questions. Thanks for inviting him to this discussion, Melissa!
He also mischaracterises historical information. If he is so confident with his sources. He needs to sit with a Catholic scholar and let us see how he fares. I have watched a few of his videos. Mixing some lies in a lot of truth still makes it a lie. He can do better
In regards to the Bible:
"We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists; that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them; and that otherwise we should know nothing at all about it. "
Martin Luther
I don't know, why change it & take whole books out? 1500 years they were determined to be inspired by God, but Luther comes around, says they don't belong & it's all agreed he's correct about that? But what does the bible say about changing even one iota of scripture? Yet people follow him & his traditions, his 'truths' but it concerns me how he tortured & killed people for not following his reforms.The council of Trent corrected the abuses he was so rightly concerned about. So it seems he had some newfound traditions of his own, for right reasons maybe but why torture & kill others? I think in his later years there were some health & mental issues he had to deal with, because he did change his beliefs on certain things.., For instance; at first he was adamantly concerned that Jews be treated with respect & kindness but later changed & wanted them all unlived? That's what my research tells me anyway 😢
@@Kath-GoldenarrowI dunno, man. All good questions. We'll never know for sure
Thank you addressing those myths/points, which I’m sure to hear one mentioned everyday.
Wow, that was really great. Wesley is way awesome. Thanks for having him on and dialoging around all this, very interesting. I learned much from him during this.
Love your content, Melissa! Thanks for this! Always great content to share with my people!
Thanks for this Melissa and Wesley. This video is super helpful and informative. I'm enjoying watching.
it is the promulgation by pope damasus in 380 that defined the canon of the bible, all 73 books in the catholic church that the roman church had always used. the latin vulgate was commissioned in part to define and circumscribe the allowed books to the exclusion of the non-canonical books, which by this time had proliferated. this canon was repeated by hippo and carthage, and this canon was unchanged until luther came along.
Pope in 380?
@ did i stutter?
As Christians we remain human, and pride can result in resistance to change. We do not like being wrong, or being duped. Loyalty, also can play a role in denial.
The problem lies with media in popular culture, that gained momentum with Dan Brown’s fiction “Da Vinci code”
Great video!! Let’s do this again real soon 🤓
Wes, you have to know that there are many Catholic scholars who disagree with you on the Deuterocanon. I think I speak for many others when I say I would love to see you have a discussion with a Catholic scholar about it
Lol the Bible is clearly product of the Church. Sad to his gymnastics on this issue
Any non-catholic scholars that would say the same?
Well I think all the Catholics should get together and look at the work of Ivan Panin and then ask themselves do our books have this anti-counterfeit underlying numeric called the Heptadic structure..Which Wes never even mentions by the way but it exist nonetheless and there is your answer no the Catholic books do not nor does any other work which separates the Bible from every other work
This would be great! More conversations with Christian Scholars across traditions.
You’re telling Wes what he “should know”? SMH
Great interview! May God bless both of your ministries!!
Wonderful, absolutely engaging discussion through and through! May the Lord bless us with wisdom and understanding and increase our love for His Word
Jerome = saint and bishop in the Catholic Church
Augustine = saint and bishop in the Catholic Church
Monastery = home of Catholic monks
Vulgate = full bible as recognized by the Church by the entire church since it was formed except by heretics.
Septuagint = Greek translation before Christ which contains deuterocanical
This man has been blessed with such an immense amount of knowledge and wisdom. This video is going to take me 3 days to work through. My hand is cramping from pausing to take allllll of the notes
LOL he isn't that great and you should check out videos debunking some of this nonsense.
This is so good and so useful! Thanks Melissa and Wes!
I've been getting new channels in my feed ever since I first heard of Wes because someone posted his Rogan interview talking about the Billy Carson debate. Loved this video as well and am adding you to my list.
Funny neither of them elaborate on what an ecumenical council is why they were important.
I can’t get enough of this guy! I ❤ all these explanations from a scholar that spends all his time reading the Bible and historical texts!
I am "protestant" and consider the Deuterocanon to be inspired. Wisdom of Solomon has strong prophecies about Jesus, and some of the other books may also have some. Jesus called 1 Enoch scripture when talking to the Sadducees. He is kind of calling Tobit scripture as well as the Sadducees messed up the details of the story from Tobit. Feast of dedication in Maccabees was resuming animal sacrifices in the temple, lighting the menorah, decorating the temple with gold- there is no mention of oil lasting 8 days- that is the traditions of men that make the bible a myth if they were true. Maccabees contains fulfilled prophecies from Zechariah, Isaiah, Daniel, and possibly other books. 2 Maccabees 2 contains a prophecy about the day of Pentecost, and Revelation 11.
Our shared "i" Am Melissa thank you for attending unto our own and to have sincere conversations with our HOST Meek Wes. Love you!
I didn’t hear an argument against the Council Of Nicaea being the first to acknowledge the canon of scripture. Only that they would have known what the canon was going to be before they ever convened. The true argument is that the Council did not arbitrarily choose which books were in and which were out, but chose them based on long experience of Christians around the world prior to their meeting.
He said that that’s not even what they discussed and by the time the council came to be the books of the Bible where already chosen. Since the 2nd century. It’s been established.
@@luzelisalfonso2736 chosen by who?
One of the best interviews on scripture! Loved it, although I'll need to watch it again and take notes ;p thanks!
Here’s his main “myths” in order so there can be a proper discussion:
Myth #1: The Bible was compiled at the Council of Nicaea, where books were excluded.
• Huff clarifies that the Council of Nicaea (325 AD) did not address the biblical canon; its primary focus was on Christological issues.
• Myth #2: The Bible has changed over time, with books being removed and texts altered, leading to differences between the Catholic and Protestant Bibles.
• He explains that while the Catholic Bible includes additional books (the Deuterocanonical books), the core canon has remained consistent.
• Myth #3: The Roman Catholic Church gave us the Bible.
• Huff argues that the development of the biblical canon was a gradual process involving the early Christian community, not solely the Roman Catholic Church.
• Myth #4: The King James Bible is the best and most accurate translation.
• He discusses the strengths and limitations of the King James Version, noting that while it has historical significance, modern translations benefit from more recent scholarship.
• Myth #5: The Book of Enoch belongs in the Bible.
• Huff explains that the Book of Enoch was not included in the Jewish or Christian canons, though it holds historical interest.
In some of these cases Wes provides helpful nuance to correct popular misconceptions, but in other respects I don't think he is successful in taking into account all the sources into account and presenting an unbiased, scholarly picture and instead perpetuates a number of other myths. The recent 'Myth Busting' video responding to this one on the Apocrypha Apocalypse channel points to a number of cases where Wes's statements are just factually incorrect here.
Thanks 😁
Id like to see Huff discuss the start of the church h with Hann or Trent
keep em coming Melissa! I want your long form content! If you could, also give us your full talks! Ive seen your youtube shorts and the speech clip is phenomenal and I want more. Please keep giving us long stuff - whether its conversations/podcasts or just you going on a long speech. 30 minutes to 3 hours is fantastic and keep doing this great stuff!
Apocalypse Apocrypha has a boat load of information on this.
@@andrewbrossman9902 Who Im interested in is Melissa. She clearly has been given Wisdom and an articulate mouth from God. Her view is what I want more of rather than information.
@@foolish_god Nothing against Mellisa. I like her channel. I was mentioning that you want to know more about the deutercannon, there is a TH-cam channel called the apocalypse apocrypha. The New Testament cannon is closed. The Old Testament cannon, not really.
@@andrewbrossman9902 What did I say about the deutercannon or scriptural cannon? I didn't speak about it. Yet you come to me telling me to check out someone I never gave interest for. My focus has been on Melissa, not the content. My focus is on a person, not ideas.
Go away and stop being a fool. Come back when Wisdom is on your lips. You do not listen to advice as is clear when you come to me and tell me what to do. You do not care to understand my words, you only care to air your opinion.
@@foolish_godYou don’t have to be mean about it. Chill out.
Huff might be an expert on New Testament archaeology, but this nonsense about the 9th century being the actual birth of modern-day Catholicism... what a take. I have more respect for a Mormon who believes the church fell into immediate apostasy following the death of John.
"But..but....the council of Niceaaaa!!?"
Thanks Melissa, another banger of an interview!
That’s not an achievement no one says it came from Nicea, it came from Carthage and Hippo.
Yea Wes basically got all his council history wrong and that doesnt even take interpiting anything lol. He simply just doesnt know it.
Miss Melissa, I'm so proud to see that you loved Wes before Wes was famous.
Both of you are blessings to the family.
God bless you and yours
PapaNorm
Great respectful way of explaining the KJV! I was a KJV only person until around 2010ish I taught myself Greek to prove the pastor wrong fortunately I learned it's good and other translations are not for the most part wrong! The study turned me to ESV
😂😂
That's strange as I learned Hebrew and Greek, and my professors edited the ESV.
After 28 years and several translations later, it only confirmed of how accurate the King James is.
@@michelleadams5609 you're absolutely full of it😂
Me too. I use the ESV.
JESUS LUVS!!! BE CAREFUL OF Bibles that are "paraphrases", that means something is left out! the living Bible is a personal paraphrase not a translation! BE BLESSED!!!
Our most important relationship is with God, not our church.
Affiliation and affection can never be more important than the truth.
Don't forget who the church is......we are the church.
Who do you think Jesus' followers were? Have you read Gods word? They established "congregations" or churches or places of meeting.
What of ancient Israel? They, too, were united in worship of God, not allowed to do as they felt was right--until they strayed.
Who do you think are the "faithful and discreet slave"? Why do you think "elders" and "older men" and "overseer" are written of? How about of "those taking the lead"? That means there must be an established organization for Gods name on Earth: God is a God of organization and order. God must have a worldwide unified organization and you wont find it on these TH-cam channels.
Yes true but without the body of Christ ww are nothing. We need fellowship in person. We are not meant to be solo Christians on a virtual techno island. Aa helpful as this is, that i can'tdeny, because I am here and reedily benefit from this, I need in person interaction as best I can with the church.
@@markuse3472Amen! Very well saud Thank you!
Thank you for this video. I didn't even know some of these things. God bless you ❤
This is a fascinating discussion. Fantastic video!
Love this topic - thanks for having Wes on again!
Melissa Dougherty and Wesley Huff takes on 5 Myths about the Bible only to end up affirming other myths. Gary Michuta critiques two of their myths (The Council of Nicaea and the canon, The Bible has changed over time and "Catholics have a different Bible than we do"). January 10 2025
If Jesus and the Apostles adopted the Jewish/Protestant canon, then *why do we find so many of citations from the early Church quoting the Deuterocanon explicitly as Scripture or using to confirm doctrine?*
Here's a sampling:
Epistle of Barnabas (ch 6) - Wis 2:12
Clement of Rome - Wis 12:12
Shepherd of Hermas - 2 Mac 7:28
Athenagoras - Baruch 3:36
Irenaeus - Wis 6:18-19; Baruch generally and specifically 3:39-4:1
Tertullian - Wis 1:6, 2:12; Maccabees generally
Clement of Alexandria - Sir 21:7, 20, 23:19, 39:26-27; Wis 3:1-6, 6:17-19, 16:26; Tob 4:15
Hippolytus - Baruch 3:36; Wisdom as a whole; 2 Mac 2:6ff; Tobit; Daniel/Susanna
Cyprian - Wisdom at least 3 times; Sirach at least 4 times; Tob 4:5-11, 12:8-9, 12-15; 2 Mac 6:30
Origen - Wisdom at least 9 times; Sirach at least 13 times; 2 Mac 7 and then generally once as "Scripture history"; Susanna (book of Daniel) as part of "divine catalog"; Judith (9:2); Tobit; "they summon the book of Baruch the prophet to bear witness to this assertion" -De Principiis (Book II)
( The whole Deuterocanon apparently! )
Athanasius - Wisdom at least 8 times; Sir 15:9; Judith 8:16; Bar 3:12; Tob 12:7
Source: mostly Michuta's The Case for the Deuterocanon with over 100 pages of such citations/quotations
Facts
Bro did not watch the video 14:00
@@theunstopablegoat bro somehow doesn't realize that the video doesn't address my question at that timestamp. Also, Jerome actually did quote the Deuteros late in life as inspired Scripture, demonstrating a change of heart and ultimate submission to the Catholic Church on the issue. Huff doesn't actually know what he's talking about, just repeating the same old myths and falsehoods. Gary Michuta has thoroughly debunked these Protestant talking points. Check out his books and videos for real primary source analysis.
@tonyl3762 No because if you looked at the timestamp, you would see why a church father would quote it.
@@theunstopablegoat So the early Church fathers quoted the Deuteros *_explicitly as inspired/prophetic Scripture/Word of God and/or to confirm doctrine_* because "the Jews knew about these books"?? That's the supposed answer to my question??
So on the canon we should obey the "authority" of 2nd century Jews who rejected Jesus and the New Testament rather than the authority of those the Apostles taught and ordained as their successors and the next generation of apostolic successors?? That's your logic?
Wow! How we need more of this! Wonderful discussion!
I've been reading the Church Fathers and how the early Church functioned. I can see how the claim that "the Catholic Church is reading these things into the past" can work. But honestly though, something that seems clear to me is that back then there was apostolic succession. The bishops had authority. Rome had kind of a primacy going on. And the Church was this united church where the bishops were constantly looking after and defending it against heresies. The councils were made to fight them and define important things about the faith. It seems to me that there was an authority going on in the Church...
There was government in the 1st century church, but there is NEVER a such thing in the Bible as apostolic succession. Idc what the "church fathers" had to say about it. The Bible shows how the early church functioned, and IT is the only reliable source for what the 1st century church believed and practiced.
In the 3rd-century Church Fathers, have you noticed the influx of platonic influence & how how platonism began to influence their theology?
One church had a tendency to take people they didn't like and tie them to a bundle of sticks and fire them..... Probably safe to say they also burned a lot of paper too. So if a lot of church writings seem to support the church that liked burning things and people, there might be a reason why.
@@IndianaJoe0321 Hello! Yeah, I've seen how some were extremely knowledgeable in the philosophy ideas of that time. However, I would like to hear more of your reasoning.
....it didn't take long for Rome to be a problem to the rest of the church. Bishop Stephen in the mid second century was promoting a non-trinitaraian position, and Rome started trying to assert itself as the chief church above all the other Bishops. It would take centuries but it was the last for power that convinced the church in the East to severe ties with the church in Rome.
The Septuagint includes these books and Greek speaking Jews had these books. To say that Jews did not use these books is not accurate.
This was AWFULLY AMAZING! 😂 Thank you both so very much for this excellent discussion and teaching!
It was the most awful video ever!
If you want to have a conversation with a truly incredible Bible scholar, you shouid get Scott Hahn to be a guest for your show.
Great interview. Highly informative
Thank you so much for having good volume and audio quality.
Inviting a Catholic scholar to talk about the canon will be cool too.
No
@@k-dogg9086. why not?
@0612freedom what do we have to do with heretics?? With darkness?? With Antichrist?? NOTHING bro.
The lds people frequently contend that The Trinity and the Bible both came out of the Counsel of Nicea. I appreciate this clarification . Blessings.
That’s what all cults teach. They always attack the Bible and the divinity of Jesus.
I’m LDS. Never heard the Bible came out of Nicea Council.
The Bible came through the Church...and the Church is the Body of Christ.
So good! Love Wess Huff, glad you had him on❤!
My favorite Canadian on TH-cam! Next have him debunk the myth that American peanut butter tastes different than Canadian peanut butter.
😊
Ha !
Oh by the way Melissa I want to complement you on your interviewing skills. You let your guest do most of the talking and had a clear agenda and stayed on topic and asked only clarifying questions that were in the scope of the interview. Rabbit trails can be fun and interesting but they can keep you from achieving your overall goals. Too many TH-camrs and Podcasters have chaotic interviews and there is way too much cross talk and meandering off topic.
1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Dr. Michael Heiser provides a very good explanation of Enoch only in that it gives the reader a slightly more comprehensive view that the ancient Hebrews world view didn't refute the existence of other divine beings but rather communicates that Yahweh the Lord of Hosts was the sovereign over all creation and the sons of God are indeed divine beings (some of which had fallen and begun to be worshiped by other nations as deities like the Greek, Roman, Indian, Norse, pantheons among all the other nations.) But the Hebrews doubled down that Yahweh alone was the only divine being which was due adoration or worship.
I have a question for @WesHuff or Melissa:
If Wes's claim about the Catholic Church was established in the 9th century it's true, what "church" out of the 45,000 "Christian Denominations" determined the Biblical Canon? Lutheran? Anglican? Methodist? Pentecostal? Baptist? Pentecostal?
So, so interesting! Thank you both!
35:55 "the church doesn't make the Bible., but the Bible makes the church."
Can we talk about Luther adding the word “alone” to scripture & him wanting to remove James & 5 other books?
There goes Wes sgain, pulling books off a shelf behind him.😅 Wow, I thought I had heck of a Library.😅😅
Who is here after Wes Huff debated Billy Carson?
Carson crushed him!😅
Love this interview! Sooo eye opening ❤ thank you Melissa
Firstly, the Council of Trent that responded to compositional critiques of the Bible decreed the canon of scripture by affirming the exact list of books named as scripture by the Council of Rome in 382.
Secondly, I agree that it's not true to say that "The Catholic Church gave us the Bible" (which by my estimation is a polemical response aimed mostly as a criticism of Sola Scriptura), but I would say that it's equally wrong to say that "The Bible gave us the Church". The reality is that God gave us both the apostles and their successors AND the books of scripture directly. They're not in competition for supremacy but work in unison for the glory of God.
Where are the organized words of the apostle located?
It seems like you're aiming for a kind of catch-22, but it doesn't really work. Yes, the New Testament contains a collection of apostolic writings that are, in fact, the only writings in the Apostolic works genre that are the inspired word of God. It doesn't follow that they're the only writings of the apostles and their successors, nor that they're the only writings of merit to the spiritual life. To assume so is to erase the works of the early church fathers. What's more, the Bible doesn't come with an infallible decoder ring. There's no getting around that whatever you read in the Bible needs to be interpreted: either by you by your own lights, by some member of a splinter denomination assuming a pastoral role, or by light of the teaching authority of the apostolic tradition of Christ's church.
@@cerickNY so your church pick what shuld be in the bible?
in fact no proof that a 66 book was already being use by people in the second up to the 3rd century
@@UMAKEMESMILESWACKIN Not quite. The church identified what works were inspired by God and what works were not, thus giving us scriptural canon. I'm also not sure what you're trying to say with the second sentence. The four earliest codices we have of the Bible all contain at least some of the Deuterocanonical books in them.
Speaking as an ex-Catholic, Wes' approach to Catholicism and its entrenched presuppositions is the best one. Speaking from experience working with Catholics, if you wanna see someone dig in their heels and stubbornly substitute their presups for truth, tell that Catholic that they're wrong and that you can prove it from history.
What's one example of "Catholicism and its entrenched presuppositions"?
I'm sorry, but it is in Protestantism with respect to the canon of the Bible that I see a lot of presupposition being done in order to reach the conclusion of the 66 book canon. Wes does not accurately reflect how much dispute there actually was over the canon when he represents it as settle early and apart from any Church authority. If an objective scholar didn't presuppose the 66 books and tried to develop a method to decide what is the canon there is really no way of coming about it that doesn't involve making ad-hoc rules to get to the desired conclusion.
This was very interesting ❤ thank you for this
Look at you, providing links to the other videos mentioned.
You are pretty awesome!
Thank you!
As an Orthodox Christian ☦️ I have never heard that the Bible was given to us at the Council of Nicea
I have never heard of it either, as a Protestant.
@@andrewbrossman9902 if you do some research you should hear the Catholic Counter arguments to what this man is saying.
@@dman7668 I have a little bit.
Same. I was a protestant for 30 years and for the last 15 years I have been Catholic and this is the first time that I ever heard that anyone claims this.
Where dous it say that u can only really on scripture I would like u to debat Trint Horn from counsel of Trint !!
The scripture is given for doctrine & reproof
Great video
Wes failed to mention from the get go the bishops at Nicaea were under Roman imperial rule, but the decisions made at the council were religious in nature and represented the collective authority of the Church leaders, with the Emperor facilitating rather than controlling theological outcomes. Kind of important to clarify ‘Ecumenical’ as if there were different churches.
I actually feel like I'm listening to run around arguments. Wes Huff needs to debate a real Catholic apologist. Robert Sungenis, Gary MIchuta, William Albrecht... Sam Shamoun ( A man after my own Heart)!
“A man after my own heart” beautifully said. 😊 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”
2 Timothy 4:3
Hi Melissa, The primary reason I became curious about the book of Enoch a few years ago was because Jude quotes from Enoch. I listened to Wes' discussion of the book of Enoch twice, and was surprised that he did not mention Jude's quote in verses 14-15.
does Jude quote Enoch ,as in "as Enoch said" or thus sayeth Enoch? had not read the name of Enoch in Jude
Jude quotes the MAN Enoch, not the book. If you compare the two, they are not even identical. Quoted scripture is never wrong, it is verbatim. Jesus always said, "You have read," or, "It is written," when quoting/referencing scripture--Jude doesn't do that. The Book of Enoch is not inspired of God, and it actually contradicts itself AND the bible.
I love what you do. Thank you. Great show.
Yes, the British and Foreign Bible Society removed the Apocrypha, or seven books, from the Protestant Bible in 1804 to reduce printing costs
really?
@@boromirofmiddleearth557 Yep. The "Apocrypha Apocalypse" channel has a lot of great information on the topic. I recommend looking at some of the oldest videos on the channel to get some of the fundamentals on the topic; but one in particular in answer to your question is titled "Who Removed Books from Protestant Bibles?"
Even though they used to be printed in between the OT & NT, it was stated that the Apocryphal books were not inspired.
@@jolynarterbury1980 The question was on who removed them. Whether anyone state that they are apocryphal or not, you'll have to be more specific, different groups labeled differently. Some, including Calvin, even continued to cite some passages from books like Baruch as Scripture in with Luther's calling some parts of them inspired and other books including Esther uninspired, and from there different groups had different opinions.
I would love to see Wes debate , Scott Hahn
Though Hahn is an excellent scholar on the contents of Scripture, in my opinion a specialist on the topic of the canon itself would be a better candidate for a discussion with Huff, such as Gary Mitchuta.
Great episode. One thing I would offer about the value of being familiar with the book of Enoch is that it puts us closer to understanding the general mindset of the second Temple era Jewish audience that Jesus and his disciples were teaching. Michael Heiser does a great job of illuminating this. He does agree that the book of Enoch is in no way to be considered as “ missing from the Canon.“
Loved this!
Great interview. Very informative!
Enoch 1 is most likely the first comic book ever written. Ironically, Stan Lee stole a lot of material from the scriptures: The Creator, The Watchers, "With great power, comes great responsibility (to whom much is given, much is required)". I agree that reading Enoch is a good idea because it is referenced by Peter and Jude, but that's about it. Great interview, Little Sister!
How can it be comic when there are verses in scripture that reference the book of Enoch and quote from it just like how they also reference the books they decided to take away without proper permission or authority because none of them prayed for guidance from the Holy spirit who inspired the letters and also non of them asked God for confirmation they went based on their own understanding for the sake of peace and destroying the truth in the process
@@adeclipse_sa to suggest that scripture quotes from the book of enoch is to assume that the book of enoch is older than those books in scripture, which is a massive assumption. sure, its written as though it is older and the character is older, but as stated in this interview the oldest compiled book of enoch is from the 15th century.
there are also things stated in enoch which are directly against scripture, so theres that
@@junk3996 , it is not scripture. Most scholars think that the first sections of 1 Enoch were written 3 centuries before Jesus ' birth. Scrolls of Enoch were found at Qumra (Dead Sea Scrolls), which are thought to be from 2 centuries BC.
@@adeclipse_sa my point is, that it is like a fantastic work of fiction like a graphic novel we would see in the realm of comic book literature today. I'm not sure to whom you are referring, when you mention books being taken out?
Enoch 🙄
Great interview!
Can you possibly consider inviting/interviewing qualified representatives from Apostolic churches, Orthodox, Church of the east, Coptic church, Church of Rome (Roman Catholic Church), if possible Armenian Church, Ethiopian Church?
There is no rush, it would really be appreciated to hear what the Apostolic churches have to say on the same topic, instead of listening to protestants talking about the Apostolic churches. After all, the Council mentioned was The Church, not just The Church of Rome, representatives from all over came to that Council.
Politely suggesting this approach to this topic.
That would be interesting.
Yes, I would love hearing an apologists rebuttle some of the points he is making here that ought to he rebutted. Especially his point about the Councils merely recognizing scripture. They recognized alot of things but you don't see Protestants accepting them. I feel there is a bit of pick and choose when they agree with the Councils over the Bibles canon. Then ignore other things reached at the Councils consensus like baptismal regeneration.
That would be good. A topic about the Eucharist would be interesting with her. I’m a Ex JW that turned Catholic 😁
@@dman7668he is an apologist..
Excellent interview. Could your guest recommend a good book about the early Church "fathers" ?
Thanks for debunking the myth that the Catholic Church gave Christians the Bible at the Council of Nicea.
True the Catholic Church defined the canon a bit later in the 4th century.
Absolutely excellent watch and Wes Huff along with Dr Ken Johnson are my go to Biblical scholars. Wes has really made a name for himself lately especially after the Billy Carson debate. So many people are rethinking their beliefs after that video.
and who is carson?
he is not even a top debater
Excellent content!
This is so interesting. I have studied and written papers on all five of these topics.
A frustration comes with talking to people about them because most have heard something, but are not well studied.
I don't get very deep into converations with those who either have a vague, or no idea, what is in different bibles or how they came about.
Some talks devolve into an exchange of talking points. Infrequently, someone gets really mad if you bring scholarly sources into it.
I won't carry on a discussion where someone wants to duel with bumper sticker slogans.
Pearls before swine.
Melissa, thank you for this information, This was so interesting and eye opening
Fantastic. I enjoyed this video so much. Having heard the input from your guest, I feel so much less unknowing about the myths you two discussed. Awesome, I think.
Unfortunately, while this video discusses a number of myths and misconceptions, it also perpetuates some. The Apocrypha Apocalypse channel just did a good "Myth Busting" video response to this one to address it.
There were two Councils of Nicea . First 325 AD and Second 787 AD.
Jimmy Akin clarified Wes' errors in this interview