I’ve got Bontrager rubber on 4 of my 6 MTB’s and they’re super underrated in my opinion. In the Midwest I’ve never found the need for a DHF/DHR set up.
@@HUKIT. at first they felt slow but i got my fitness up a little. I think next go around ill try the simular tread but faster rolling tire i think its the xr5
@@destroystreets1023 I haven’t tried that casing but I do have the big brother. On my 21 Remedy 9.8 I’m running SE4 in back and SE5 up front and it’s perfect for that platform(both in 2.6 on 35ID Enve wheels).
Full disclaimer, I have been a Poseidon Brand Ambassador since the beginning of 2023. I love my Norton (side disclaimer, there isn't much stock about it). I do agree and disagree about the fork. I found the fork to be the "weakest" stock component for sure. But I suppose it depends on who it is marketed towards. It's not mean to be a high end mountain bike. For most people just looking to get into mountain biking it will serve them just fine. I rode it for probably 6 months on the stock fork. The fork did fine on flowy (non-technical) single track. I also beat it up on some classic east coast rocks, and while certainly not the best, it still worked. That said, you are right on about the big cons of the fork. #1...it's heavy...like really heavy. #2 lack of of adjustability...even the lone preload setting didn't really seem to change anything no matter where it was set. As for the weight info on their website, I can't speak to that too much. My initial build replaced the stock wheels/tires with Hunt Trail Wide wheels with Maxxis Assegai 2.6 front and Dissector 2.4 on the back...set up tubeless. I also replaced the saddle with an Ergon one, and the pedals with my favorite Look pedals. With those changes, but still the stock fork, I was at approx. 31 lbs. Anyway, I ended up replacing the fork with a Cane Creek Helm MKII, added a OneUp dropper post, swapped the bars and stem out for PNW stuff, changed the brakes out to Shimano Deore full hydraulic, added Praxis cranks/bb with absoluteBlack oval chainring. I have to say, the current setup makes a pretty bad ass hardtail, lol.
Thanks for your insight on this review. When I do these reviews and ride a bike I compare them to bikes in a similar price range. There are many sub $1000 bikes that ride a lot better than the Norton did. Once I switched out a bunch of parts, the frame was awesome. That video is here. th-cam.com/video/xHqzDAFyspI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xV4X6xwGI1H-Dzi6 I think that the two parts that detract from the stock bike the most are the longer stem and the fork. It simply put my weight too far forward and with the extremely heavy 7.5 lb fork that just made the bike feel terrible. I guess I don't even understand how even SR/Suntour sells a fork that is this heavy. I know it's a budget fork, but they should figure out a way to shave some weight or even figure out a way to do an 140mm budget air fork. And square taper cranks, again, something you don't really find on a $999 bike. I tested a $699 Canyon Grand Canyon and it had external BB with a 2-pc spline crank. I also got an $899 State 4130 All-Road, which is a different category of bike of course, and it too had an external BB and 2-pc spline crank. There are just a couple of parts I feel could be speced better and then the Norton would be a much more legit bike for $999.
@@ShadLife I don’t mind them using square taper cranks to cut cost. Square taper gets a bad wrap imo. Mechanically speaking it’s pretty bomb proof. The trade off is weight, which is one reason you don’t ever see them on higher priced bikes. Though you can actually buy some really high end square taper BBs. I think a cheaper air fork would make a big difference in the stock spec. I honestly never worry about stem length. That’s all personal fit stuff. It’s almost always the thing I change out first on a new bike. That and saddle/pedals.
A point of order: Canyon is a much much larger company than Poseidon so they will get a much larger volume discount than Poseidon will when it comes to components. That will allow Canyon to put out better spec at a particular price point. That said, I do agree with you that $1k price point that this bike was at at the time you recorded the video was too high. They must have gotten a lot of feedback since as you know it's $700 at the time of this posting. IMO that puts it where it should be and makes it a good value for what you are getting. It makes it a solid tinker as you go bike. The $300 frame set is even better if you have a parts bin. I prefer 29 over 27.5 but I'm probably going to get a frame because of the price and geo. I already have everything else
I only bought the frame and built it up with budget parts... I used the same Microshift Advent drivetrain as Poseidon put on the full build... but I used an X-Fusion RC32 130mm Fork, which would be a (slight) upgrade from the Suntour Poseidon uses. So far I'm enjoying it. Great video... keep up the great content!
Definitely. The fork is too heavy and garbage. So are the tires and crankset. The wheels are not bad and the Advent X drivetrain is excellent. Get the bike, then get something like a Bomber z2 fork for it. Put a 35mm - 50mm stem on it, get a decent crankset and tires and you are good to go. Oh, and probably a dropper post because I feel like those are mandatory. Then you have a pretty nice ride for less than $2k.
I was wondering the same thing so glad you answered this question. I am also wondering, given the choice between the Norton and the Grand Canyon 5, both at $699, which would you choose, assuming that both would be upgraded at some point in the future?
the bike market is all over the place. Canyon has some decent full suspension for $1600ish. Chicken Sendies and I was talking about the Norton a while back and came to the conclusion that it's not really a bang for the buck.
I noticed the spokes were a little loose during my first ride video. So I did tighten the spokes up. Hopefully they will survive. I will make sure and hit some jumps and the rocky sections like I usually do.
It's too bad about the Norton. I really want to see a decent bike for under 1500. Many of the things that would make them better are not inherently higher cost (thru axles, geo, etc). I suspect that eventually some of these things will trickle down, and there is some indication that this is starting to happen (look at the new Trek Marlins). BTW the Canyon Stoic 4 is currently on sale for 1500, which is a steal for the spec. But do watch the Hardtail Party review before you buy.
@@politan83 I just watched his Canyon Stoic 4 Review. I keep saying that some of these frames get too slack and thus become very single purpose. Which is fine, but then it's not a good all around bike, which is what most people want. I also offered to send this Norton frame to him since it is a medium. I don't recall if he has reviewed it or not.
@@ShadLife you can have you cake and your icing..it's just the super slack bikes need a super steep STA like 80° to climb well I have a custom 180mm forked 61.5°HTA bike that climbs better than my XC and trail frames
Although the Lava Dome is a $700 bike from a bike shop brand vs $999 direct to consumer brand (which should cost less). So I would completely expect the Lava Dome to be pretty low end.
Kind of a disappointing bike! Totally agree about the canyon stoic option. For $500 more you get everything you upgraded on this bike and a little bit more. Not to mention canyon typically has multiple sales throughout the year. Super happy with mine!
As much as I like supporting small companies, they’ve got to offer value in order to earn my dollars. When compared to offerings from Canyon, Vitus, Polygon and others, the Poseidon offers terrible value, as you’ve shown across a few videos. Thanks for the review.
Similar prices bike from trek, specialized, giant, etc is likely to have square taper. I think it’s similar to the coil fork. Yes it’s inexpensive but also as long as your aren’t thrashing the bike they’ll last longer without maintenance. Same reason why these bikes don’t come tubeless.
Keep in mind, Trek, Specialized, and Giant are not direct to consumer brands. So a $999 bike from them will be fairly low spec. Better to compare with other direct to consumer brands.
I’ve got Bontrager rubber on 4 of my 6 MTB’s and they’re super underrated in my opinion. In the Midwest I’ve never found the need for a DHF/DHR set up.
I think the team issue and tlr tires are decent. The cheap wire bead stuff they put on a lot of their bikes are not so great.
xr4 are so good for the midwest
@@destroystreets1023 Yes sir, two bikes with XR4 2.6’s.
@@HUKIT. at first they felt slow but i got my fitness up a little. I think next go around ill try the simular tread but faster rolling tire i think its the xr5
@@destroystreets1023 I haven’t tried that casing but I do have the big brother. On my 21 Remedy 9.8 I’m running SE4 in back and SE5 up front and it’s perfect for that platform(both in 2.6 on 35ID Enve wheels).
Full disclaimer, I have been a Poseidon Brand Ambassador since the beginning of 2023. I love my Norton (side disclaimer, there isn't much stock about it). I do agree and disagree about the fork. I found the fork to be the "weakest" stock component for sure. But I suppose it depends on who it is marketed towards. It's not mean to be a high end mountain bike. For most people just looking to get into mountain biking it will serve them just fine. I rode it for probably 6 months on the stock fork. The fork did fine on flowy (non-technical) single track. I also beat it up on some classic east coast rocks, and while certainly not the best, it still worked. That said, you are right on about the big cons of the fork. #1...it's heavy...like really heavy. #2 lack of of adjustability...even the lone preload setting didn't really seem to change anything no matter where it was set.
As for the weight info on their website, I can't speak to that too much. My initial build replaced the stock wheels/tires with Hunt Trail Wide wheels with Maxxis Assegai 2.6 front and Dissector 2.4 on the back...set up tubeless. I also replaced the saddle with an Ergon one, and the pedals with my favorite Look pedals. With those changes, but still the stock fork, I was at approx. 31 lbs.
Anyway, I ended up replacing the fork with a Cane Creek Helm MKII, added a OneUp dropper post, swapped the bars and stem out for PNW stuff, changed the brakes out to Shimano Deore full hydraulic, added Praxis cranks/bb with absoluteBlack oval chainring. I have to say, the current setup makes a pretty bad ass hardtail, lol.
Thanks for your insight on this review.
When I do these reviews and ride a bike I compare them to bikes in a similar price range. There are many sub $1000 bikes that ride a lot better than the Norton did. Once I switched out a bunch of parts, the frame was awesome. That video is here. th-cam.com/video/xHqzDAFyspI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xV4X6xwGI1H-Dzi6
I think that the two parts that detract from the stock bike the most are the longer stem and the fork. It simply put my weight too far forward and with the extremely heavy 7.5 lb fork that just made the bike feel terrible. I guess I don't even understand how even SR/Suntour sells a fork that is this heavy. I know it's a budget fork, but they should figure out a way to shave some weight or even figure out a way to do an 140mm budget air fork.
And square taper cranks, again, something you don't really find on a $999 bike. I tested a $699 Canyon Grand Canyon and it had external BB with a 2-pc spline crank. I also got an $899 State 4130 All-Road, which is a different category of bike of course, and it too had an external BB and 2-pc spline crank. There are just a couple of parts I feel could be speced better and then the Norton would be a much more legit bike for $999.
@@ShadLife I don’t mind them using square taper cranks to cut cost. Square taper gets a bad wrap imo. Mechanically speaking it’s pretty bomb proof. The trade off is weight, which is one reason you don’t ever see them on higher priced bikes. Though you can actually buy some really high end square taper BBs. I think a cheaper air fork would make a big difference in the stock spec. I honestly never worry about stem length. That’s all personal fit stuff. It’s almost always the thing I change out first on a new bike. That and saddle/pedals.
A point of order: Canyon is a much much larger company than Poseidon so they will get a much larger volume discount than Poseidon will when it comes to components. That will allow Canyon to put out better spec at a particular price point.
That said, I do agree with you that $1k price point that this bike was at at the time you recorded the video was too high. They must have gotten a lot of feedback since as you know it's $700 at the time of this posting. IMO that puts it where it should be and makes it a good value for what you are getting. It makes it a solid tinker as you go bike.
The $300 frame set is even better if you have a parts bin. I prefer 29 over 27.5 but I'm probably going to get a frame because of the price and geo. I already have everything else
I’m thinking about picking up just the frame, with sales they have it’s only 300 but the Nukeproof scout might be worth the extra money.
I only bought the frame and built it up with budget parts... I used the same Microshift Advent drivetrain as Poseidon put on the full build... but I used an X-Fusion RC32 130mm Fork, which would be a (slight) upgrade from the Suntour Poseidon uses. So far I'm enjoying it. Great video... keep up the great content!
for 699.99(current price) do you think the complete bike is priced correctly now?
Definitely. The fork is too heavy and garbage. So are the tires and crankset. The wheels are not bad and the Advent X drivetrain is excellent. Get the bike, then get something like a Bomber z2 fork for it. Put a 35mm - 50mm stem on it, get a decent crankset and tires and you are good to go. Oh, and probably a dropper post because I feel like those are mandatory. Then you have a pretty nice ride for less than $2k.
@@ShadLife thank you boss!
I was wondering the same thing so glad you answered this question. I am also wondering, given the choice between the Norton and the Grand Canyon 5, both at $699, which would you choose, assuming that both would be upgraded at some point in the future?
Thinking same setup maybe
the bike market is all over the place. Canyon has some decent full suspension for $1600ish. Chicken Sendies and I was talking about the Norton a while back and came to the conclusion that it's not really a bang for the buck.
The bike is on their website for 699.99. Do you feel at this price point its worth a purchase in its complete form?
Yes, this is a better price for sure. I would immediately replace for fork and put a shorter stem on and then it will ride A LOT better!
The frame is $300 right now, would you recammend it for a build? My current considerations are a giant fathom and a trek Roscoe. Thanks!
You can't really beat that price. So yeah, I would certainly suggest it for a build.
Square taper cranks!?!?!? Curious how the wheels will hold-up with your riding style. Looking forward to more
I noticed the spokes were a little loose during my first ride video. So I did tighten the spokes up. Hopefully they will survive. I will make sure and hit some jumps and the rocky sections like I usually do.
It's too bad about the Norton. I really want to see a decent bike for under 1500. Many of the things that would make them better are not inherently higher cost (thru axles, geo, etc). I suspect that eventually some of these things will trickle down, and there is some indication that this is starting to happen (look at the new Trek Marlins). BTW the Canyon Stoic 4 is currently on sale for 1500, which is a steal for the spec. But do watch the Hardtail Party review before you buy.
@@politan83 I just watched his Canyon Stoic 4 Review. I keep saying that some of these frames get too slack and thus become very single purpose. Which is fine, but then it's not a good all around bike, which is what most people want.
I also offered to send this Norton frame to him since it is a medium. I don't recall if he has reviewed it or not.
@@ShadLife I don't think he has, so that would be great!
@@ShadLife you can have you cake and your icing..it's just the super slack bikes need a super steep STA like 80° to climb well
I have a custom 180mm forked 61.5°HTA bike that climbs better than my XC and trail frames
Are you able to fit 27.5 x2.6 in the rear?
Yes
Purchased a 2022 Kona Lava Dome had a similar experience.
Although the Lava Dome is a $700 bike from a bike shop brand vs $999 direct to consumer brand (which should cost less). So I would completely expect the Lava Dome to be pretty low end.
Trash bike 😅
They updated their website to 33 lbs.
Kind of a disappointing bike! Totally agree about the canyon stoic option. For $500 more you get everything you upgraded on this bike and a little bit more. Not to mention canyon typically has multiple sales throughout the year. Super happy with mine!
As much as I like supporting small companies, they’ve got to offer value in order to earn my dollars. When compared to offerings from Canyon, Vitus, Polygon and others, the Poseidon offers terrible value, as you’ve shown across a few videos. Thanks for the review.
July 2024, website says it weighs 33 lbs.
It should say 35 pounds.
Similar prices bike from trek, specialized, giant, etc is likely to have square taper. I think it’s similar to the coil fork. Yes it’s inexpensive but also as long as your aren’t thrashing the bike they’ll last longer without maintenance. Same reason why these bikes don’t come tubeless.
Keep in mind, Trek, Specialized, and Giant are not direct to consumer brands. So a $999 bike from them will be fairly low spec. Better to compare with other direct to consumer brands.