No, it was partly a lack of quality - cam shaft failures because of metallurgy, plastic engine parts that disintegrate and a lack of honoring warranty along with massive borrowing
@@TheBlueDogMan One of the issues surrounding the LC4c parallel twin has been KTM's cagey response to it. But yes, a couple of engines have been found to have misaligned oil feed drilling, leading to inadequate flow to the cams.
Horrible days. I've just been made redundant from employment of 18 years, however, at least I walk away with a decent payout. It would be worse to be stuck in a job, that you had worked, and not received your pay earned. That's a sh!t state of affairs. Probably worse than loosing your job
I’m not surprised they went the way they did I’ve worked on bikes for 40 years and wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole heaps of sh.t unreliable hugely over priced same problems electric or cams of starting or running and not starting when hot all new
Sold my 2023 S1000XR to a guy embroiled entangled with the local KTM dealership to buy back his 2023 KTM Super Duke 1290. Repeated electrical problems in the first 6 months. I test rode a KTM Super Adventure S. Stunning bike. Bought a 2024 GS. I absolutely cannot be stranded halfway across Montana with a KTM issue that a dealer cannot or will not address. Reliability over performance for me. KTM can’t be trusted here in the 20s
Always remember, BMW bikes have been the most unreliable, by a wide margin year after year. Google it. When a BMW takes a $hit out of warranty you better open that wallet wide and kiss it good bye.
I bought a Duke 390 (Second Hand) during covid. I always wanted one since they came out and the reports were fine. I found a low km bike that had just sat. I rode it a few times and got to the first service. I checked the valve clearances and they had closed up already. I had to change some shims and when popping out the cams I found the quality of the parts was poor. The cam oiler was particularly finiky and looked like it would get blocked really easy. Fasteners felt real cheesy... I sold it after that service. I don't miss it.
Would not be surprised if KTM calls herd back to the factory or has dealers do bike updates to advance model year. Wouldn't be surprised to see KTM rebadge bikes, new stickers and plastic and turn 2024s into 2025 or 26 models. If I was running the operation I would get minutes of past meetings and anyone who thought it was a good idea to buy MV Agusta would be fired.. anyone who thought that KTM should borrow to expand operations w Bajaj and CF Moto would be fired.. Engineering that were aware of cam and valve issues, again fired.. people who pushed plastic and thought that different colors were a great idea, so if you were pro GasGas or Husky you are fired..KTM is so diluted that the Austrian iconic reputation is nothing can't tell if a GasGas or CF Moto is anything different is a huge problem
@@randycallow3736I see your point but I wonder if firing all those players would not hurt ktm in the long run, because right now ktm is not going to able to fill the jobs of people who get the axe. I mean I would not be swayed to leave current employment to risk going to work for ktm. So they’re really stuck with what they have.
The German publication ‘Der Standard’, reporting on the insolvency proceedings, has stared the number of new, unsold KTM motorcycles world-wide is 265000. That is more than one year’s worth of production. Half-price anybody?
Hopefully KTM will continue to design, manufacture, and sell such great motorcycles..... and if they improve their after sales support and warranties, that would be absolutely perfect ! 🤞
The company needs new management. They desperately need to focus on improving the quality of their product and customer service. BMW has started to gain something of a poor reputation for reliability, but nobody has ever said they refuse warranty work or their dealerships don't try to look after their customers. I've never bought a factory fresh motorcycle, so I cannot attest to any manufacturers approach to warranty claims. What I can say is my nearest KTM dealership was fantastic to deal with when it came to service and an electrical issue with my RC8R. They even took the time to trawl the online classified ads and give me advice when I mentioned looking for an older Duke or Supermoto as a winter commuter. But something changed; their labour costs have virtually doubled and their general attitude towards customer service is now "Don't give a fuck mate."
MV was an upscale brand that recently thought they could extremely upscale the price on the same basic models. A Turismo Veloce was in my future, and suddenly they were 40% more expensive. It was over at that point.
I bought a bike (not KTM) for a KTM dealer years ago. When I collected my bike I was chatting over a brew in the workshop. He had several bikes in bits for various work and our discussion shocked me. He quoted parts prices that were huge! At that point I was glad I didn't have a KTM.
CF Moto owning 51% of KTM in China has no meaning. In China a foreign company can only open a local business if a domestic company owns majority stake. So 51% is the bare minimum to satisfy that requirement. Fingers crossed for KTM. I hope it doesn't end up as a chinese phantom brand like benelli and such.
This is correct, companies in China need a majority Chinese ownership. Same for Disneyland Shanghai, McDonalds, Coca Cola, Honda, VW, etc etc. the only company I know that has managed to sidestep this is Tesla and their Chinese manufacturing arm, it seems to be wholly owned by the American company, not a joint venture.
I think saying CF Moto owning 51% of KTM has "no meaning" is ridiculous. Of course it has meaning. There's an established relationship in place. CF Moto has access to KTM design expertise and engineering. That by itself is not meaningless.
@@teresad7174 That was the joint venture. Now CF is co-owner of the 790 and 890 engines they built for KTM with the KTM specs and requisites. That was id the joint venture contract. CF having what they wanted, it seems that CF is far more interested by the joint venture with Yamaha.
@@pabloricardodetarragon2649 Sure whatever. I'm simply saying that the relationship, partnership, between CF Moto and KTM is advantageous to CF Moto in terms of building a brand. CF Moto would be wise to mimic the engineering T7 motor, which has been around a while in different motorcycles and has a great reputation for reliability.
Whenever a company begins expanding too fast based on past and current successes these kind of problems arise, KTM Austria has been building the best off road bikes for some time now and are the standard by which most others are measured by, expansion always leads to outsourcing of parts which eventually leads to quality control issues, it's running rampant in the automotive industry as the quality of basically all automobiles has dropped significantly in recent years, the practice of rapid expansion in businesses is a concept that is quite destructive and usually ends up completely ignoring the concepts that made a company great in the first place.
I have read in the comments and I do believe as well ktm does overcharge for some of their models like their off-road models and in my option have taken advantage of the off-road guys but with that said they do make an awesome off-road bike I hope they do survive as a brand.
Ive never owned a KTM, however I am disappointed that such a strong brand has been brought to its knees in such a publicly humiliating way, whatever the reasons are, I hope they can restructure and regain public confidence...
Montessa (now Honda-owned) could benefit significantly from the loss of KTM off-road machinery? Thanks for the report Mark. And we wish you and your family a very happy Christmas 🎄
They chose to try to be huge with multiple overlapping brands very quickly which required borrowing a lot of money instead of growing slowly and steadily and use profits to reinvest and grow. It takes longer this way, but much more stable.
No one is immune you look at general motors. You like your big bad Chevy pick up truck and your bad Camaro muscle car. Guess what that company was an inch from being belly up and we’re talking general motors
Bad decisions. It happens all of the time. Look at Harley and the DEI scandal. If your biggest customer is the USA making changes that appeal to soft Europeans will fail. KTM decided to cheapen up the unseen internal part. Harley has been doing that for decades. Why do you need a Screaming Eagle upgrade on almost every Harley? At that price the bike should not need to be upgraded on day 1. Indian is doing it too.
I share your astonishment. On the scale of things KTM is a small manufacturer. Even if you gave the benefit of the doubt as to the valuation of its assets, that figure would not come anywhere near the alleged €1.8 billion currently owed to creditors.
If you own a CFMoto built KTM 790 Adventure, or any CFMoto bike with the same parallel twin engine you should be okay, as CFMoto have apparently fixed the engine.
So many trolling idiotic posts like yours, you make your self look like a moron when you dont know the first thing about what your posting. Just a troll among 1000's of other trolls attacking KTM.
I owned a 2004 KTM 950 for 16 years and never had a problem I couldnt fix, sold it for a 2017 KTM 690 Enduro and it doenst run well and its almost impossible to diag the problem without a proprietary KTM scanner. UGH
I also had a 950 for ten years without any issues and simple to work on. I also have a 2020 690 Enduro. 22,000 miles on the clock and no issues. Best bike I've ever owned.
Bajaj motors(largest 2 wheeler manufacturer in the world) owns 48% of KTM along with Piere mobility ... I am shocked that no one even knows this ! The listed company PIERER Mobility AG holds approximately 51.7% of the shares of KTM AG; Bajaj Auto International Holdings BV (referred to as Bajaj) holds approximately 48% of the shares of the operating KTM AG.
KTM had it too good for too long. They used inferior plastic components in their oil pumps that are not going to perform well under heat conditions, they also failed their existing and new customers by not addressing cam issues as they arose. I wouldn't touch one at any price as the warranty won't be worth anything. Stick to the likes of the big Japanese manufacturers as they offer much better reliability and after sales warranties are pretty good by comparison. KTM did it to themselves.
If the plan is to pay only 30% of what is owed to creditors, why should any other company want to get involved in future business involving any of the Pierer Mobility companies? I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.
It’s the lack of company intervention and acceptance of accountability for teething problems with certain models that speaks volumes of the company’s commitment towards the customer. This is why I rather bought a Honda instead of a KTM even though I liked the KTM more.
I don't know if it is because i'm a bit old, but i don't think bikes got any better than 2015-16 ranges, I feel the same about cars. You can't charge a premium for cheaply produced indian/chinese produced engines. European companies are all falling prey to the green agenda imho. All just a numbers game for them though i guess.
No, you're not wrong, just off by 5 or 6 years. The 2000's were the holy grail regarding car and bikes engineering. The last carburettor bikes were the best you could get, the first batch of FI Japanese bikes were also good. Then... EU 3/4/5 and all went to shite. All the electronics I need on a motorcycle is a CDI. No ABS, no TC, none of that shite. FI in itself is not bad. Those EURO5 bikes are awful to ride. Nothing reacts to your inputs, there's a massive delay and everything feels spongy. Not saying "CR500 bro", that was a nasty era, but 2004 CBR1000RR, perfect.
KTM as a whole needs to be looked at as 2 separate entities. There the pre-merger KTM and a post merger KTM. the merger took place in late 2017, but it wasn't until late2018- 2019 that business practices started changing. Mainly those changes post merger were 1) relocating manufacturing to countries of poverty-searching for cheap labor under the guise of bringing jobs to poor countries. 2) sourcing cheap materials (metal and plastic)or creating cheap components in house. Those are both status quo for China based companies. They are the champions of doing anything it takes to maximize profits until the company tanks, goes under, then rinse and repeat with a different company. At 51% ownership, KTM has majority when it comes to voting at board meetings. Call me crazy, but I think China is purposely tanking KTM so CFMOTO can swoop in and buy the entire company dirt cheap. Or they'll let it go completely under, then purchase the rights to WP and put that suspension on Kove and CFmoto bikes. No one would purposely do what KTM has done. I'm telling you guys, China has much of of a say than anyone realizes. Making business deals with countries with a track record like China has is absolutely wild. I have no clue why someone would pet a copperhead, knowing the snake will bite you at any moment. It's not a matter of 'IF', but rather-'WHEN'
@@PisgahGravelProject The suspicion of Chinese entities is perfectly understandable, but you're missing one major part of the story: European and US bikers are as "mature" - read old - as their markets, whilst Asia is booming with new money and new riders. We can't sell them our goods anywhere near as easily as they can sell to us. China is only interested in Western brands and raw materials, not Western made finished goods, and India has high import tariffs and almost zero dealership infrastructure outside of domestic motorcycle industry, in a massive and in parts poorly developed country. If you want a slice of the Asian market outside of Japan and maybe Korea, you need to set up manufacturing there. KTM was one of the first to take advantage of that. Not only that, but after the 2007/2008 financial crisis, KTM had some rocky finances and needed new investment. Enter Bajaj Auto taking a large slice. It was bad timing for KTM as they'd invested a huge amount in developing the LC8 V-Twin and the RC8/R, which was a total disaster on launch, with never ending water pump issues, revisions needed to the throttle and gear shift linkage. Then the "fixed" twin spark RC8R was a sales flop, suffering from increased manufacturing costs and a depressed market, still feeling the after effects of the global recession.
@@pauln6803 I agree in theory, but if the tech is detrimental to the health of the engine or overall longevity, then it is counter productive. the most pollution is in initial manufacture. If people are going to give me regulations, then they better hope it is based on honest statistics not a deceptive control agenda.
Regarding lax QC during the pandemic, though? If this was the case, it would have been seen across all manufacturers. It might simply be that other brands had a more robust management of their QC during this difficult time?
is that a excuse he has used , lol. Crap product for over a decade . These fanboys and the youtubers who actually rely on the church of ktm denial are worried about there content without a 1000 new models a year to toss on about
Nearly bought a KTM but the fact it cut on the test ride was enough to walk away.Then I read online about them......If they survive the management team must be booted out,then a vastly simplified and more reliable range of bikes should be next on the agenda. No more silly supercars either.... No factory racing either till things improve. Their marketing is outstanding but so much needs fixing.....
I have my heart set on buying a new Husky 701 Enduro for world travel. Should the worse happen and all the companies go bankrupt where would you stand with warranty claims etc? Don't the companies have to have insurance policies against these possibilities? Thanks for the informative video.
It depends if anyone else buys the brand and they would have to have some sort of moral obligation to existing customers or risk losing more money and reputation through ignoring customers.
It's not only KTM in MotoGP. They’re practically dominating the Moto3 class, FIM Jr GP and Red Bull Rookies. That's a hell of a lot of race bikes for one manufacturer.
They’ve dominated MX2 for the last 20+ years, only time KTM haven’t won it is like 3-4 times in that time. The likes of Honda haven’t won a race in that class for years
I would love to own one of the 300 XC-Ws but I won't buy one at the 13K price point. Not to mention a dealership will probably try and squeeze 16K out of the purchaser.
When a company Digs a "FINANCIAL HOLE OF DEBT" Like KTM has . A Billion here a Billion there makes no diference. This has been covered up for a long time by the acountants. " LENDERS " Asleep, falling sales / quality isues Ding Ding !!. "CITY GROUP " Vultures circulating for financial feast of Charges / Fees which will be MILLIONS. After the carcase has been picked clean / fees paid sell the name job done .QED.
Far too many models, 25 different models of ktm, Why? No one needs that much choice, it’s ridiculous. In the duke range alone, 200, 390, 640, 690, 790, 890, 950, 990, 1050, 1090, 1190, 1290, now the 1390. Seriously why so much choice?🤯can you imagine the complex production and logistics and the cost of all those spare parts and plus their sister company GasGas and Husqvarna and all their models. They got too greedy.
I would love to have a bike with the 300 2stroke but they are $ 12,000+. I found a 250 4stroke from Japan for $ 4,000. My 250 was used with less than 1000 miles. It was like new. I will use the money I saved to go riding.
It certainly leaves me with a bit of a conundrum because I took an 890 Adventure R on a PCP in 2022, which ends in May next year with a final payment of £5,500 to own it. Due to the money invested in it already, fully specing it up and paying a largish deposit to reduce monthly payments, it would have paid me to buy it. Now I may have to hand it back and cut my losses, I certainly won't upgrade to a new one despite much reduced prices.
@PhilipBallGarry Thank you for your valued advice, I wondered about removing spec'd items, the issue there may be that I spec'd it up at point of purchase. The bike was a low milage used model due to the unavailabity of new models at the time, there were none in the UK. The previous owner had already added heated grips, a lower seat, centre stand, spot lights, the lower front mudguard off the S model and more road biased tyres. I added the taller screen from the S, heated seat, a Remus exhaust, the full tec pack and I had the original Karoo 2's refitted. So all of that would have been part of the deal. Since getting the bike I've added a headlight protector, full body decal, CNC oil and brake resevoir caps, front sprocket cover, foot plate and a Puig adjustable screen mount. It's been a great bike and as I own three others, it only gets used for rougher roads and more inclement weather. It features along with my other bikes on my other channel @greywolf9292 should you want to see it.
ouch , get to Know The Mechanic a mechanic and take the pain with hanging onto it . Dont Adventure on your own though without a large water bag or a trailer and phone signal for a friend
@motorsforthemasses Thanks for your valued reply, yes it all depends on resale value. Please read my reply to @PhilipBallGarry so you can see how well spec'd the bike is.
I guess the problem for KTM now is that new bike sales are likely to fall dramatically, given the uncertainty around after sales service, until we know further regarding whether they will survive… which in itself makes survival more challenging. Also a problem for existing KTM owners looking to sell their bikes as prices are likely to fall dramatically too due to the current uncertainty. All in all very worrying for all stakeholders of KTM. Let’s hope a rescuer comes to the fore. Great video by the way. Keep up the good work.
I bought my GSXs 1000 from a ktm dealer last year ..salesman was making jokes about the warranty department at their shop..rammed with bikes so close to a superduke glad I steered clear
Reality is that every government destroyed their economies with their overreach and fear mongering during the so called pandemic . They loved the control they had and the corporations decided that they could gouge the public on every sale . Prices on everything have increased at an alarming rate . The corporations have decided to increase profits at an alarming rate so they decided to use poor quality Chinese parts and this has led them to produce products that are inferior in quality .The price of necessities like food , electricity , home heating fuel have all increased . Gas and diesel to transport goods to retail locations have all increased and this is a major contributing factor to the price increases on everything but the biggest factor is corporate greed. In conclusion , people are simply trying to survive and don't have any extra money for unnecessary things like motorcycles and other toys . KTM dirt bikes are suffering from poor quality Chinese components , high pricing and the fact that they are a non necessity. The reality of the post pandemic world is that we are all just trying to feed our families and live indoors because the corporations and governments are all price gouging us on every necessity. Short term profit and price gouging has lead to corporate destruction and a big change in how and what we buy in this post pandemic world .
I’ve sold my 6 month old MV Agusta dragster rr because of this, it got a light on every single time it was washed and parts took forever to get ( 7 weeks for a mirror) happily back on Yamaha
Many people in your comments section should've worked for KTM since they know all the answers and could've prevented everything. Very smart people. Large companies restructure all the time so I'm not too worried this will be the end of the brand.
Blows my mind that KTM is allowed to get away with not paying its employees for 2 months. Not a lawyer, but in the US I think the NLRB would be all over them for that crap. Austria apparently allows companies to screw their employees, forcing them to file claims with some national/government bankruptcy fund? Also, KTM's 'creditors' I assume include their suppliers. Here in the US(and I would assume everywhere else as well) KTM is probably on something like a net 30 with their suppliers. After a couple months of not paying, they'd be placed at least on COD, if not actually cut off. If these suppliers are (if they're lucky) gonna get 30% of what their owed, they'd be insane to allow KTM net 30 or anything other than COD going forward- big giant coffin nail for a company who can't pay 2/3 of its existing debt, its employees(wonder if the idiots at PMG who forecasted the 'covid boom' being permanent are still being paid?) and could close its doors tomorrow. If KTM is shutting down production and has any employees left, it should turn those people loose on the excess inventory, cannibalizing it to keep at least the parts demand fed.
The company i work for has an open invoice with KTM AG for 14k. I told the owner last month before we shipped it maybe we should put them on COD. He didn't listen!
Had a 1190 Adventure for 10yrs. Super reliable and it never missed a beat, fabulous bike. It's for sale currently...probably going to have to give it away.
I don't care what mega-company owns the brand, as long as they keep going. I've had my 890 Adventure from new and it's a beast of a bike, and rock solid. I'm thinking of trading up to the 1290, maybe now's the time what with all the unsold stock lying around.
All I hear since I got my 2020 KTM Duke Adv 390 was it's a piece of junk...but the only issue I've had is a sad drive chain that only lasted 6k miles before I changed it out. It just rides and rides. I suspect people are just too damn hard on the bikes.
To add to that even Honda and Yamaha have other companies manufacturing their motors so a lot of the Chinese knock offs look just like Honda motors technically they are
A lot of KTM's are going up for sale locally for a fire sale. I picked up a 2023 GasGas 300 for a deal. Regardless if the company goes out of business parts will not dry up for years. Also I think people are panicking about this a bit unduly, I was around in the 1990's when KTM did look like it was weeks off deaths doorstep.
I've never bought a KTM that I did not have to go back and reengineer redesign and change things on. Luckily I come from a family full of engineers and machinists with their own machine shop.
I bought 22 150xcw for nearly $9500 in late 22. It was ok but weak engine power, tpi injection had places where it didnt fuel correctly. People said to spend another $1000 for head and ecu flash. Couldnt see doing that. Rode around the issues in the powerband, then got a used yz250x. I had hard time getting back $5500 for it. Only 60 hours. I would try a different fuel injection but not oil injection. But not by current ktm group. If husky was bought out by somebody safe, then they would be preference but I'd keep yz
From what's visible, I think that whatever they do now will be prolonging the inevitable. It seems to me to be under the control of the creditors & how much time they can give KTM which, may not be so much depending upon the financial positions of the creditors. With 30K machines warehoused, that may be seen as the closing finale to claw back as much debt as possible & then fold the whole thing up. Ofcourse, the big question in all of this is can there be any significant changes in the operational costs moving fwd. That's where the rubber meets the road & if KTM can't be restructured to continue business without large investment inputs, I'd think that will be the death nell. It will certainly be a very difficult proposition to convince investors to pony up if no significant cost of production reductions are possible. I think we'll have a clearer picture by mid 2025.
You can have excellent quality materials and design, but if something isn't built to the standard you require, it is lack of good/proper quality control. For example, not checking if an oil port was cleaned of all swarf, deburred, etc, after machining. That's poor quality control, which can lead to a poor quality final product. I think that's what he means by poor QC, even though the inputs (materials and design) are quality.
@whza75 I understand that but the net effect is the same ... KTM tried to maintain a premium brand whilst producing the legendary Friday afternoon bikes making ownership a punt. Everywhere we look we see happy owners and pissed off owners. Victims of poor quality then become victims of even worse customer service. Excellent case study in how to trash a brand.
I bought 3 KTMs in 2024 from Strictly Power-sports in Pueblo, Colorado. They are all Enduros. A 350, 450, & 500 4T. Reason I bought them is they are Awesome off road machines. I ride in the mountains here and most other riders are on orange bikes as well. I’m not worried about KTMs problems either. There are plenty of part suppliers servicing the KTM community in Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, Washington and probably every state. Even though Power-sports dealers can’t sell them as fast as years past is because inflation has hit pocket books here in U.S. However, I saved my money and in retirement instead of going to work, I’m gonna go ride these bikes and enjoy them and my freedom to do so and Pray KTM pull out of this. These are hard times for everyone so my advice is to help KTM, Husqvarna, GasGas by purchasing one or two or three if you can. Happy Trails everyone and Long Live KTM.
Suggesting that people make major purchases from a company in financial administration, that has obviously been trading insolvent for some time, is completely idiotic. Trading insolvent means they continued operating the business as normal, knowing they wouldn't be able to service their debt obligations. This is a crime in every developed country, along with misleading financial reporting which they have also been partaking in. It is very curious that one CEO was absent from the meeting. If all KTM, Husqvarna and Gas Gas stock on hand was sold tomorrow, it would barely make a dent in their debts. Buying bikes will do nothing to save the company at this point, it is in the hands of their creditors and any potential investors.
@@MotoWot Ford, Chevy, Chrysler in U.S. had same problems as KTM does. But, the Government stepped in and bailed them out and they recovered. They also had corruption and insider trading. What corporation these days doesn’t have some corruption? Maybe Austria can bail them out and save an otherwise good company that creates jobs for people and makes quality motorcycles.
@@gregharris2928 I find it strange that you think KTM made quality motorcycles, corruption is normal, KTM was a good company despite being corrupt, and the Austrian government would bail out a company which has a history of off-shoring manufacturing to China (and is likely to do more of it if they survive). Also the US Government can print billions of US dollars to bail out companies (but not provide decent health care to its citizens?). Euro supply is controlled the European Central Bank, not member countries. Austria cannot decide to print euros like the US prints dollars. Also Ford did not get a bail out from the US government, Chrysler is going broke again and GM's debt is more than 10x earnings. In other words GM and Chrysler a pretty much back where they were in 2008-2010.
Wow, I never ever get a thumbs down. I don’t care so much for the guys at the top of KTM or Managers. I do care about the workers at the bottom who needed a job. Also, I think KTM deserves another chance to redeem themselves. Besides, go get your Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, or Honda and try to keep up with me on my KTMs in Baja or in the woods. You won’t catch me.
with the GFC strangling there competition while they had all the money so that was that , bought the media payed for gag orders on reliabilty issues for 10 years and know the responsible competitors have recovered from the Global Financial Crisis . Quality build wins everytime over the long run , ktm is far from finacial dominance like they had. They blew it ! Buying media and Championships is a expensive game , not honourable either but ktm have never been honourable anyway. How many millions of owners have had to sign there legal contract Gag Orders before they replace a motor or bike ? Bankruptcy the first time was due to poor quality and earnt reputation , media cant hide it anymore with there fake salesmen dribble of the last decade
This is a different business culture and world economy. If they come back it will likely be owned in another country unless they do something very soon.
€2.6 billion in sales in 2023 with €160 million in earnings before taxes makes the debt load of €1.8 billion very, very difficult to pay off. They will have to sell non-essential assets and reduce all expenditures. Maybe CF will make an offer to the creditors for a fraction of the debt and acquire PMG. If that would be the case, eventually most of the bikes will be built in China and/or Vietnam.
What are the yearly debt repayments on of a loan that size? 2.6 billion, over 10 years, interest only, around 5-6%, is about 13 million a month. About 156 million a year. Which is exactly earnings profit before tax. So they really needed to ensure quality control in order to keep faith in their products, which would look after existing customers and give confidence to new customers. If you don't have continuous good quality control then you'll not have a good business. Bikes are expensive so people need to feel secure buying them.
I bought a KTM 390 Adventure 2021 after I'd moved to the Philippines 2020. Nine months later I got rid as it was plagued with issues that KTM Philippines would not resolve. I wanted a 1290 Super duke but with such poor build quality (India build 390) total lack of customer service No way am I risking 1.3 million pesos.
Really hope ktm gets this sorted out. I want to get a 350 Mx bike this year after being with Honda forever and Ktm/husky/gas gas are the only ones who make it
Make sure you find out if they still have plastic oil pump gear drives on the ktmhuskabergs , sad how many catastrophic engine failures owners have been left with the cost or part the bike out . Ouch ! Hand grenades they are called right back to 2015 the 350s , mates 350 cam snapped in half and muched his engine under 10 hrs old . KTM made him sign a Gag order before they would replace his engine , you know why , because he had it on gopro and had a modest following. Until they were told he had it recorded they were denying a new engine and to rebuild his metal strewn brand new 350. Grubbs
Quand je lis les commentaires, j'ai l'impression de revenir au moins 40 années en arrière. KTM marchait fort, mais des pannes, allumage MOTOPLAT je crois me souvenir.
Hi the question now is can they be trusted ? With real customers spending there money not with due respect you tube or magazine testers given bikes for days weeks or even months a rider doing 3k a year is well out of warranty before the first valve check is due this time it looks ok for owners next time might be different honestly i money wise could not take the risk as much as i like the bikes hope its going to be ok for the workers ride safe all
You can have the best quality control in the world. If the part is badly designed its going to fail further down the line. Id say most of ktms faults are down to poor design and materials
I love their handling, but I wouldn't give ktm 1 cent at the moment. Too decieptful, don't want to pay a fee for them to turn on quickshift and maps, no way.
Lots of inaccuracies in the video, some half truths, but certainly KTM are 110% struggling! 👍 1:20 Why does your graphic show CFMOTO down on the LH bottom corner? KTM/Pierer doesn't own them, they have a strategic partnership to build motorcycles in China, but CFMOTO remains independent and are a 51% stakeholder in the deal. 2:10 Bikes don't have 'CFMOTO engines from China', KTM themselves released a statement detailing all affected camshaft issue engines were built in Austria and fitted to bikes at various factories. On the quality issues, every manufacturer suffers them from time to time, in KTMs case it's more about the poor manner in which the company handles these faults and puts their head in the sand.
KTM didn’t suddenly rack up huge debts. Debt is a facet of most business. Key is the “gearing” and the ability to manage it. Debt and the cost of it in terms of interest payments are, essentially, business costs and where lenders make their money. The worst thing is for a lender to call in a debt and risk losing their investment. KTM need to do some soul searching to re-establish trust and good will that have been eroded by poor service, unreliability and the failure to honour warranties. Failure to actually acknowledge faults and excuses around them are easily blown up to be more than they are but as a KTM 890 Adventure owner I’m badly disillusioned by the nonsense being fed via my main dealer.
I wasn't aware of the numerous quality and reliability issues with KTM, or it's convoluted corporate arrangement. Combined with it's dire financial problems, it's enough to deter me from touching any KTM, which is very sad. For me, the worst part is the detrimental consequence for MV, I was seriously considering a Brutale 1000RR, but with this situation I just can't take the risk.
KTM had a different design approach, so it’ll be a loss to the industry. But the company changed and profits were put before reliability and customer service. They will probably be bought out and not be the same . It’s a shock due to the high profile of KTM , but an age old story
I just bought a SXF 450 factory edition and my new bike is missing 1 needle roller in 2 out of the 4 bearings in the swing arm, just one from each. The big primary oil screen was not present in the engine, the shock seal blew in only 9 hours of use. That says it all right there.
Chinese bikes from major manufacturers are a lot more reliable than European bikes. In fact, they are getting close to Japanese levels of reliability. The Duke 790 is the most reliable KTM on the market.
Sorry, but I'm heartbroken, been a KTM fan since I was a kid in the 70's and were "partnered" with PENTON motorcycles... Less companies building motorcycles means less competition which is always worse for consumers no matter what the product, this will not be good for off road riders in any way if it's not resolved
How about making parts AVAILABLE for purchase. I have never seen a company that has gone so far out of their way to make this simple this impossible. All these power parts listed with NO description or even availability, then you go to buy a regular part and its a total guess at what fits what. STILL looking for the factory vented airbox cover for my 23 450SMR, its exists, I've seen it in person and between me, the computer, two dealers we cant seem to even find a part number. What a joke. They need money, I need parts so what the FUCK is the problem?
I wouldn’t buy a cheap KTM. Too many issues. Yamaha and Honda have really never let me down. Suzuki too. Never owned a Kawasaki, but I would take a Kawasaki over a KTM any day. And I have felt like that for decades. I never raced. I just want to ride the bike. Not repair or do constant maintenance.
I think the enduro money and the factory bikes will go. Just a guess. I won't gamble my hobby money (a large amount) on a bike from these companies. There are so many safer options and I owe no one my loyalty, I'm paying and require to be looked after. As far as Chinese bikes go, it's still a waiting game until we know how the import tariffs turn out next year. If these cheap bikes end up close to the price of a big brand machine the dealerships will drop them. No profit means no support and then you are left with a pig. I also don't want pity from my friends for the bike I ride.
I went to buy a KTM 890 adv 2 years ago. I previously owned a 990 adv which was a great bike. I bought a 900 Tiger Rally Pro instead. Reasons. 1) they wanted to charge me extra for stuff included with other bikes. 2) The cam problem was being rumoured and when I asked about it the sales guy was basically rude. 3) I wanted a short test ride on a dirt road to see how it felt and was refused as it would have made the demo dirty. KTM have wrecked their brand and will have a LONG way to go to recover. Once the KTM rider in the group was admired now they are the butt of jokes.
It will be interesting to see if the Chinese brands will continue to expand with all the upheaval in the Chinese economy. Maybe it's not a time for risk taking for some of those companies? There will be a company cull of the lesser known brands that produce inferior products, I suspect. There's always a company cull when times are tough. It starts in retail, and then manufacturing.
KTM will have to cut on the models they don't have too many and lower their prices the world has more money at its prices they will buy Japanese and Chinese..
KTM should not only address new models and manufacturing. It should support all of its mofels especially in regards to the software, so many 1290 series with electrical gremlins and software bugs. In a year i had to replace a fuel gauge ( the replacement has a different design) something feels like a recall should have been in order, the fuel cap failed ( keyless ) after a software update, all 2020 KTM give an error on electronic suspension if the power is on with kill switch off. When it is cold, and the engine fails to start twice, an engin2 check light comes on with trc error ecu wrror and suspension error. 😅. I still like my KTM but disappointed, thats why my second bike is a Japanese make, never had issues with Japanese bikes.
Hey thanks for the update, I managed to steal a Gas Gas EC 500F new from the dealership for $12990 ride away here in Australia. I am going to hard enduro this thing round the bush for something other than the 300 2 stroke bikes I normally ride. Videos will be coming to my channel in 2025 of the 500 being thrown around the Aussie bush. Tune in to see the spectacle if you dare 🙃
@@motozz8258 Thanks for your input. I haven't had a 4 stroke since my 2018 Beta RR350. Looking forward to experiencing the red KTM 500 for all it's pros an cons 👍
Thank you for the latest updates on KTM! Merry Christmas
No, it was partly a lack of quality - cam shaft failures because of metallurgy, plastic engine parts that disintegrate and a lack of honoring warranty along with massive borrowing
Wasn’t the camshaft Issue actually a result of a poor oiling issues not metallurgy?
@ maybe I was thinking of Ducati… 😄
@@TheBlueDogMan
One of the issues surrounding the LC4c parallel twin has been KTM's cagey response to it.
But yes, a couple of engines have been found to have misaligned oil feed drilling, leading to inadequate flow to the cams.
@@quacker998
Some of the old 9 and 7 series had flakey cams.
Haven't heard of anything in recent history.
@@pauln6803 yes I’m that old
Horrible days. I've just been made redundant from employment of 18 years, however, at least I walk away with a decent payout.
It would be worse to be stuck in a job, that you had worked, and not received your pay earned.
That's a sh!t state of affairs. Probably worse than loosing your job
I’m not surprised they went the way they did I’ve worked on bikes for 40 years and wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole heaps of sh.t unreliable hugely over priced same problems electric or cams of starting or running and not starting when hot all new
Sold my 2023 S1000XR to a guy embroiled entangled with the local KTM dealership to buy back his 2023 KTM Super Duke 1290. Repeated electrical problems in the first 6 months. I test rode a KTM Super Adventure S. Stunning bike. Bought a 2024 GS. I absolutely cannot be stranded halfway across Montana with a KTM issue that a dealer cannot or will not address. Reliability over performance for me. KTM can’t be trusted here in the 20s
Always remember, BMW bikes have been the most unreliable, by a wide margin year after year. Google it.
When a BMW takes a $hit out of warranty you better open that wallet wide and kiss it good bye.
I bought a Duke 390 (Second Hand) during covid. I always wanted one since they came out and the reports were fine. I found a low km bike that had just sat. I rode it a few times and got to the first service. I checked the valve clearances and they had closed up already. I had to change some shims and when popping out the cams I found the quality of the parts was poor. The cam oiler was particularly finiky and looked like it would get blocked really easy. Fasteners felt real cheesy... I sold it after that service. I don't miss it.
Get a Honda XR, it runs forever!!. 😅
130,000 unsold bikes.
Soon to be old models.
The old models are still great bikes and very rideable. Now you can probably get one cheaper/less price.
Would not be surprised if KTM calls herd back to the factory or has dealers do bike updates to advance model year. Wouldn't be surprised to see KTM rebadge bikes, new stickers and plastic and turn 2024s into 2025 or 26 models. If I was running the operation I would get minutes of past meetings and anyone who thought it was a good idea to buy MV Agusta would be fired.. anyone who thought that KTM should borrow to expand operations w Bajaj and CF Moto would be fired.. Engineering that were aware of cam and valve issues, again fired.. people who pushed plastic and thought that different colors were a great idea, so if you were pro GasGas or Husky you are fired..KTM is so diluted that the Austrian iconic reputation is nothing can't tell if a GasGas or CF Moto is anything different is a huge problem
@@randycallow3736I see your point but I wonder if firing all those players would not hurt ktm in the long run, because right now ktm is not going to able to fill the jobs of people who get the axe. I mean I would not be swayed to leave current employment to risk going to work for ktm. So they’re really stuck with what they have.
@@randycallow3736dodge rebadges pickups all the time … smoke n mirrors bullsht
The German publication ‘Der Standard’, reporting on the insolvency proceedings, has stared the number of new, unsold KTM motorcycles world-wide is 265000. That is more than one year’s worth of production. Half-price anybody?
Hopefully KTM will continue to design, manufacture, and sell such great motorcycles..... and if they improve their after sales support and warranties, that would be absolutely perfect ! 🤞
The company needs new management.
They desperately need to focus on improving the quality of their product and customer service.
BMW has started to gain something of a poor reputation for reliability, but nobody has ever said they refuse warranty work or their dealerships don't try to look after their customers.
I've never bought a factory fresh motorcycle, so I cannot attest to any manufacturers approach to warranty claims.
What I can say is my nearest KTM dealership was fantastic to deal with when it came to service and an electrical issue with my RC8R.
They even took the time to trawl the online classified ads and give me advice when I mentioned looking for an older Duke or Supermoto as a winter commuter.
But something changed; their labour costs have virtually doubled and their general attitude towards customer service is now "Don't give a fuck mate."
Keep us posted please.. merry Christmas
MV was an upscale brand that recently thought they could extremely upscale the price on the same basic models. A Turismo Veloce was in my future, and suddenly they were 40% more expensive. It was over at that point.
I bought a bike (not KTM) for a KTM dealer years ago. When I collected my bike I was chatting over a brew in the workshop. He had several bikes in bits for various work and our discussion shocked me. He quoted parts prices that were huge! At that point I was glad I didn't have a KTM.
CF Moto owning 51% of KTM in China has no meaning. In China a foreign company can only open a local business if a domestic company owns majority stake. So 51% is the bare minimum to satisfy that requirement. Fingers crossed for KTM. I hope it doesn't end up as a chinese phantom brand like benelli and such.
It is a strategic partnership, technology sharing and manufacturing.
Neither company 'owns' any part of the other.
This is correct, companies in China need a majority Chinese ownership. Same for Disneyland Shanghai, McDonalds, Coca Cola, Honda, VW, etc etc. the only company I know that has managed to sidestep this is Tesla and their Chinese manufacturing arm, it seems to be wholly owned by the American company, not a joint venture.
I think saying CF Moto owning 51% of KTM has "no meaning" is ridiculous. Of course it has meaning. There's an established relationship in place. CF Moto has access to KTM design expertise and engineering. That by itself is not meaningless.
@@teresad7174 That was the joint venture. Now CF is co-owner of the 790 and 890 engines they built for KTM with the KTM specs and requisites. That was id the joint venture contract. CF having what they wanted, it seems that CF is far more interested by the joint venture with Yamaha.
@@pabloricardodetarragon2649 Sure whatever. I'm simply saying that the relationship, partnership, between CF Moto and KTM is advantageous to CF Moto in terms of building a brand. CF Moto would be wise to mimic the engineering T7 motor, which has been around a while in different motorcycles and has a great reputation for reliability.
Whenever a company begins expanding too fast based on past and current successes these kind of problems arise, KTM Austria has been building the best off road bikes for some time now and are the standard by which most others are measured by, expansion always leads to outsourcing of parts which eventually leads to quality control issues, it's running rampant in the automotive industry as the quality of basically all automobiles has dropped significantly in recent years, the practice of rapid expansion in businesses is a concept that is quite destructive and usually ends up completely ignoring the concepts that made a company great in the first place.
I have read in the comments and I do believe as well ktm does overcharge for some of their models like their off-road models and in my option have taken advantage of the off-road guys but with that said they do make an awesome off-road bike I hope they do survive as a brand.
Ive never owned a KTM, however I am disappointed that such a strong brand has been brought to its knees in such a publicly humiliating way, whatever the reasons are, I hope they can restructure and regain public confidence...
Montessa (now Honda-owned) could benefit significantly from the loss of KTM off-road machinery? Thanks for the report Mark. And we wish you and your family a very happy Christmas 🎄
Thank you, and to you. I see other manufacturers trying to take advantage...time will see.
I truly do not understand how such a successful and popular brand could have ended up in such a debt nightmare
They chose to try to be huge with multiple overlapping brands very quickly which required borrowing a lot of money instead of growing slowly and steadily and use profits to reinvest and grow. It takes longer this way, but much more stable.
No one is immune you look at general motors. You like your big bad Chevy pick up truck and your bad Camaro muscle car. Guess what that company was an inch from being belly up and we’re talking general motors
Bad decisions. It happens all of the time. Look at Harley and the DEI scandal. If your biggest customer is the USA making changes that appeal to soft Europeans will fail. KTM decided to cheapen up the unseen internal part. Harley has been doing that for decades. Why do you need a Screaming Eagle upgrade on almost every Harley? At that price the bike should not need to be upgraded on day 1. Indian is doing it too.
I share your astonishment. On the scale of things KTM is a small manufacturer. Even if you gave the benefit of the doubt as to the valuation of its assets, that figure would not come anywhere near the alleged €1.8 billion currently owed to creditors.
@@Roberta_EspositoGovernment Motors...
That's how..
🤑
If you own a CFMoto built KTM 790 Adventure, or any CFMoto bike with the same parallel twin engine you should be okay, as CFMoto have apparently fixed the engine.
So many trolling idiotic posts like yours, you make your self look like a moron when you dont know the first thing about what your posting. Just a troll among 1000's of other trolls attacking KTM.
which year 300exc should i be going for reliability
2019 was my favourite
I owned a 2004 KTM 950 for 16 years and never had a problem I couldnt fix, sold it for a 2017 KTM 690 Enduro and it doenst run well and its almost impossible to diag the problem without a proprietary KTM scanner. UGH
I also had a 950 for ten years without any issues and simple to work on. I also have a 2020 690 Enduro. 22,000 miles on the clock and no issues. Best bike I've ever owned.
Bajaj motors(largest 2 wheeler manufacturer in the world) owns 48% of KTM along with Piere mobility ... I am shocked that no one even knows this !
The listed company PIERER Mobility AG holds approximately 51.7% of the shares of KTM AG; Bajaj Auto International Holdings BV (referred to as Bajaj) holds approximately 48% of the shares of the operating KTM AG.
Ktm owned by piere mobility
Piere mobility owned jointly by piere bajaj AG
And bajaj has a 49.9% shares of piere bajaj ag
Very confusing
The Bajaj angle is huge in all of this. Remember to that they build the 400 Triumph.
KTM had it too good for too long. They used inferior plastic components in their oil pumps that are not going to perform well under heat conditions, they also failed their existing and new customers by not addressing cam issues as they arose. I wouldn't touch one at any price as the warranty won't be worth anything. Stick to the likes of the big Japanese manufacturers as they offer much better reliability and after sales warranties are pretty good by comparison. KTM did it to themselves.
If the plan is to pay only 30% of what is owed to creditors, why should any other company want to get involved in future business involving any of the Pierer Mobility companies? I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.
@@J.Harry.T During insolvency, 30% is a moral bonus. The obligation would be zero. They are trying to rescue their reputation I feel.
Which bike had oil pump problems?
@jonasbaine3538 the The 2023 250/ 350 models have plastic components in the oil pump. Pre 2023 they were all steel. Google it.
Very informative and interesting video mate, greetings from British Columbia Canada.
I'm jealous, you have some amazing off-road places for enduro riding...mind you, you have to jump bears too lol.
@
We get them in our yard all the time ha ha.
Yes right out my back door straight up the mountain.
It’s the lack of company intervention and acceptance of accountability for teething problems with certain models that speaks volumes of the company’s commitment towards the customer. This is why I rather bought a Honda instead of a KTM even though I liked the KTM more.
Keep up the good videos Mark.
I don't know if it is because i'm a bit old, but i don't think bikes got any better than 2015-16 ranges, I feel the same about cars. You can't charge a premium for cheaply produced indian/chinese produced engines.
European companies are all falling prey to the green agenda imho.
All just a numbers game for them though i guess.
There's nothing wrong with trying to improve air quality.
Sometimes regulation is required to drive innovation.
No, you're not wrong, just off by 5 or 6 years. The 2000's were the holy grail regarding car and bikes engineering. The last carburettor bikes were the best you could get, the first batch of FI Japanese bikes were also good. Then... EU 3/4/5 and all went to shite. All the electronics I need on a motorcycle is a CDI. No ABS, no TC, none of that shite. FI in itself is not bad. Those EURO5 bikes are awful to ride. Nothing reacts to your inputs, there's a massive delay and everything feels spongy. Not saying "CR500 bro", that was a nasty era, but 2004 CBR1000RR, perfect.
KTM as a whole needs to be looked at as 2 separate entities.
There the pre-merger KTM and a post merger KTM.
the merger took place in late 2017, but it wasn't until late2018- 2019 that business practices started changing.
Mainly those changes post merger were 1) relocating manufacturing to countries of poverty-searching for cheap labor under the guise of bringing jobs to poor countries.
2) sourcing cheap materials (metal and plastic)or creating cheap components in house.
Those are both status quo for China based companies. They are the champions of doing anything it takes to maximize profits until the company tanks, goes under, then rinse and repeat with a different company.
At 51% ownership, KTM has majority when it comes to voting at board meetings.
Call me crazy, but I think China is purposely tanking KTM so CFMOTO can swoop in and buy the entire company dirt cheap. Or they'll let it go completely under, then purchase the rights to WP and put that suspension on Kove and CFmoto bikes.
No one would purposely do what KTM has done. I'm telling you guys, China has much of of a say than anyone realizes.
Making business deals with countries with a track record like China has is absolutely wild. I have no clue why someone would pet a copperhead, knowing the snake will bite you at any moment.
It's not a matter of 'IF', but rather-'WHEN'
@@PisgahGravelProject
The suspicion of Chinese entities is perfectly understandable, but you're missing one major part of the story:
European and US bikers are as "mature" - read old - as their markets, whilst Asia is booming with new money and new riders.
We can't sell them our goods anywhere near as easily as they can sell to us.
China is only interested in Western brands and raw materials, not Western made finished goods, and India has high import tariffs and almost zero dealership infrastructure outside of domestic motorcycle industry, in a massive and in parts poorly developed country.
If you want a slice of the Asian market outside of Japan and maybe Korea, you need to set up manufacturing there.
KTM was one of the first to take advantage of that.
Not only that, but after the 2007/2008 financial crisis, KTM had some rocky finances and needed new investment.
Enter Bajaj Auto taking a large slice.
It was bad timing for KTM as they'd invested a huge amount in developing the LC8 V-Twin and the RC8/R, which was a total disaster on launch, with never ending water pump issues, revisions needed to the throttle and gear shift linkage.
Then the "fixed" twin spark RC8R was a sales flop, suffering from increased manufacturing costs and a depressed market, still feeling the after effects of the global recession.
@@pauln6803 I agree in theory, but if the tech is detrimental to the health of the engine or overall longevity, then it is counter productive. the most pollution is in initial manufacture. If people are going to give me regulations, then they better hope it is based on honest statistics not a deceptive control agenda.
I've moved on. Bought a Beta 300 rr. The thing Rocks. 👍
Ktm does stand for keeps taking money.
to much spent on directors emoluments and racing more like
Good one🎃
Kmart trail machine
Regarding lax QC during the pandemic, though? If this was the case, it would have been seen across all manufacturers. It might simply be that other brands had a more robust management of their QC during this difficult time?
is that a excuse he has used , lol. Crap product for over a decade . These fanboys and the youtubers who actually rely on the church of ktm denial are worried about there content without a 1000 new models a year to toss on about
Would like to know if that 20% salary cut is for senior management as well, bet it's not
What s bizarre situation. Must be management practice malfeasance because the engineering and manufacturing is solid.
I’m riding a 2022 1290 SAS and it’s been awesome. One of the best bikes I’ve owned. No real issues. I’ll be keeping it a while if I can.
Nearly bought a KTM but the fact it cut on the test ride was enough to walk away.Then I read online about them......If they survive the management team must be booted out,then a vastly simplified and more reliable range of bikes should be next on the agenda.
No more silly supercars either....
No factory racing either till things improve.
Their marketing is outstanding but so much needs fixing.....
Would be interesting to see the profits of the chinese companies like CFMoto and Zontes. See how they're doing in comparison.
I have my heart set on buying a new Husky 701 Enduro for world travel. Should the worse happen and all the companies go bankrupt where would you stand with warranty claims etc? Don't the companies have to have insurance policies against these possibilities? Thanks for the informative video.
It depends if anyone else buys the brand and they would have to have some sort of moral obligation to existing customers or risk losing more money and reputation through ignoring customers.
It's not only KTM in MotoGP. They’re practically dominating the Moto3 class, FIM Jr GP and Red Bull Rookies. That's a hell of a lot of race bikes for one manufacturer.
They’ve dominated MX2 for the last 20+ years, only time KTM haven’t won it is like 3-4 times in that time.
The likes of Honda haven’t won a race in that class for years
I would love to own one of the 300 XC-Ws but I won't buy one at the 13K price point. Not to mention a dealership will probably try and squeeze 16K out of the purchaser.
When a company Digs a "FINANCIAL HOLE OF DEBT" Like KTM has . A Billion here a Billion there makes no diference. This has been covered up for a long time by the acountants. " LENDERS " Asleep, falling sales / quality isues Ding Ding !!. "CITY GROUP " Vultures circulating for financial feast of Charges / Fees which will be MILLIONS. After the carcase has been picked clean / fees paid sell the name job done .QED.
Far too many models, 25 different models of ktm, Why? No one needs that much choice, it’s ridiculous.
In the duke range alone,
200, 390, 640, 690, 790, 890, 950, 990, 1050, 1090, 1190, 1290, now the 1390. Seriously why so much choice?🤯can you imagine the complex production and logistics and the cost of all those spare parts and plus their sister company GasGas and Husqvarna and all their models.
They got too greedy.
I agree with that and the Homologation costs alone must be astronomical.
It’s fun to have many choices, but I agree, no need for as many models.
Also, the last I counted, they had 29 different off road bikes, 29!!!
I would love to have a bike with the 300 2stroke but they are $ 12,000+. I found a 250 4stroke from Japan for $ 4,000. My 250 was used with less than 1000 miles. It was like new. I will use the money I saved to go riding.
the reliability and durability of Japanese products is undeniable... and cheap. they have been at the top of global sales for decades
But 2021 is when I sold my 2019 super Duke car and the KTM two strokes I had and I don't miss them. Tried Sherco and beta and still ride both brands.
It certainly leaves me with a bit of a conundrum because I took an 890 Adventure R on a PCP in 2022, which ends in May next year with a final payment of £5,500 to own it. Due to the money invested in it already, fully specing it up and paying a largish deposit to reduce monthly payments, it would have paid me to buy it. Now I may have to hand it back and cut my losses, I certainly won't upgrade to a new one despite much reduced prices.
What about paying off and keeping it? Or refinancing the remainder? Depends what resale value you get I suppose.
If you do decide to hand it back, maybe return it to standard spec where possible. Selling-on your upgrades might ease things financially.
@PhilipBallGarry Thank you for your valued advice, I wondered about removing spec'd items, the issue there may be that I spec'd it up at point of purchase. The bike was a low milage used model due to the unavailabity of new models at the time, there were none in the UK. The previous owner had already added heated grips, a lower seat, centre stand, spot lights, the lower front mudguard off the S model and more road biased tyres. I added the taller screen from the S, heated seat, a Remus exhaust, the full tec pack and I had the original Karoo 2's refitted.
So all of that would have been part of the deal. Since getting the bike I've added a headlight protector, full body decal, CNC oil and brake resevoir caps, front sprocket cover, foot plate and a Puig adjustable screen mount. It's been a great bike and as I own three others, it only gets used for rougher roads and more inclement weather. It features along with my other bikes on my other channel @greywolf9292 should you want to see it.
ouch , get to Know The Mechanic a mechanic and take the pain with hanging onto it . Dont Adventure on your own though without a large water bag or a trailer and phone signal for a friend
@motorsforthemasses Thanks for your valued reply, yes it all depends on resale value. Please read my reply to @PhilipBallGarry so you can see how well spec'd the bike is.
I guess the problem for KTM now is that new bike sales are likely to fall dramatically, given the uncertainty around after sales service, until we know further regarding whether they will survive… which in itself makes survival more challenging. Also a problem for existing KTM owners looking to sell their bikes as prices are likely to fall dramatically too due to the current uncertainty. All in all very worrying for all stakeholders of KTM. Let’s hope a rescuer comes to the fore. Great video by the way. Keep up the good work.
in Mexico every ktm agency raises the price at least 1500 usd compared to the price on the us....
I bought my GSXs 1000 from a ktm dealer last year ..salesman was making jokes about the warranty department at their shop..rammed with bikes so close to a superduke glad I steered clear
Once again bad senior management decisions cause chaos and it’s the workforce who suffer.
I’m in the hunt for a new 2 stroke mx and I’d love a 300 ktm and I’d love to help but not at those prices
Reality is that every government destroyed their economies with their overreach and fear mongering during the so called pandemic . They loved the control they had and the corporations decided that they could gouge the public on every sale . Prices on everything have increased at an alarming rate . The corporations have decided to increase profits at an alarming rate so they decided to use poor quality Chinese parts and this has led them to produce products that are inferior in quality .The price of necessities like food , electricity , home heating fuel have all increased . Gas and diesel to transport goods to retail locations have all increased and this is a major contributing factor to the price increases on everything but the biggest factor is corporate greed. In conclusion , people are simply trying to survive and don't have any extra money for unnecessary things like motorcycles and other toys . KTM dirt bikes are suffering from poor quality Chinese components , high pricing and the fact that they are a non necessity. The reality of the post pandemic world is that we are all just trying to feed our families and live indoors because the corporations and governments are all price gouging us on every necessity. Short term profit and price gouging has lead to corporate destruction and a big change in how and what we buy in this post pandemic world .
Well said...
I’ve sold my 6 month old MV Agusta dragster rr because of this, it got a light on every single time it was washed and parts took forever to get ( 7 weeks for a mirror) happily back on Yamaha
Many people in your comments section should've worked for KTM since they know all the answers and could've prevented everything. Very smart people. Large companies restructure all the time so I'm not too worried this will be the end of the brand.
Lol. Let's hope this isn't too late. It will be interesting to see what their restructure entails.
Blows my mind that KTM is allowed to get away with not paying its employees for 2 months. Not a lawyer, but in the US I think the NLRB would be all over them for that crap. Austria apparently allows companies to screw their employees, forcing them to file claims with some national/government bankruptcy fund?
Also, KTM's 'creditors' I assume include their suppliers. Here in the US(and I would assume everywhere else as well) KTM is probably on something like a net 30 with their suppliers. After a couple months of not paying, they'd be placed at least on COD, if not actually cut off. If these suppliers are (if they're lucky) gonna get 30% of what their owed, they'd be insane to allow KTM net 30 or anything other than COD going forward- big giant coffin nail for a company who can't pay 2/3 of its existing debt, its employees(wonder if the idiots at PMG who forecasted the 'covid boom' being permanent are still being paid?) and could close its doors tomorrow. If KTM is shutting down production and has any employees left, it should turn those people loose on the excess inventory, cannibalizing it to keep at least the parts demand fed.
The company i work for has an open invoice with KTM AG for 14k. I told the owner last month before we shipped it maybe we should put them on COD. He didn't listen!
I think when they quit selling sport bikes to the public because the CEO felt they were too dangerous. Their sales went in the toilet.
Had a 1190 Adventure for 10yrs. Super reliable and it never missed a beat, fabulous bike. It's for sale currently...probably going to have to give it away.
Then keep it if it's a great bike.
@mackeymichael already bought a Ducati so it's just surplus. Shame really, but it's all in the timing.
I don't care what mega-company owns the brand, as long as they keep going. I've had my 890 Adventure from new and it's a beast of a bike, and rock solid. I'm thinking of trading up to the 1290, maybe now's the time what with all the unsold stock lying around.
All I hear since I got my 2020 KTM Duke Adv 390 was it's a piece of junk...but the only issue I've had is a sad drive chain that only lasted 6k miles before I changed it out. It just rides and rides. I suspect people are just too damn hard on the bikes.
To add to that even Honda and Yamaha have other companies manufacturing their motors so a lot of the Chinese knock offs look just like Honda motors technically they are
Its the creditors you got to feel for how many of them are folding without been saved
got a 2019 1290 sdr and luvit.
A lot of KTM's are going up for sale locally for a fire sale. I picked up a 2023 GasGas 300 for a deal. Regardless if the company goes out of business parts will not dry up for years. Also I think people are panicking about this a bit unduly, I was around in the 1990's when KTM did look like it was weeks off deaths doorstep.
I've never bought a KTM that I did not have to go back and reengineer redesign and change things on. Luckily I come from a family full of engineers and machinists with their own machine shop.
I bought 22 150xcw for nearly $9500 in late 22. It was ok but weak engine power, tpi injection had places where it didnt fuel correctly. People said to spend another $1000 for head and ecu flash. Couldnt see doing that. Rode around the issues in the powerband, then got a used yz250x. I had hard time getting back $5500 for it. Only 60 hours. I would try a different fuel injection but not oil injection. But not by current ktm group. If husky was bought out by somebody safe, then they would be preference but I'd keep yz
They cheaped out on the parts and raised the prices .
Yea sorry Quality and KTM's usual approach to ignoring the customer when problems did arise has a lot to do with what is going on.
Love my 02 300 exc takes a beating every run with no serious issues.
EUROPEAN UNION is making hard for companies. industry needs and people need industry. Not wars and green credits
From what's visible, I think that whatever they do now will be prolonging the inevitable.
It seems to me to be under the control of the creditors & how much time they can give KTM which, may not be so much depending upon the financial positions of the creditors. With 30K machines warehoused, that may be seen as the closing finale to claw back as much debt as possible & then fold the whole thing up. Ofcourse, the big question in all of this is can there be any significant changes in the operational costs moving fwd. That's where the rubber meets the road & if KTM can't be restructured to continue business without large investment inputs, I'd think that will be the death nell. It will certainly be a very difficult proposition to convince investors to pony up if no significant cost of production reductions are possible.
I think we'll have a clearer picture by mid 2025.
130k machines in warehouses, not 30.
I don't see a difference between a quality problem and a QC problem ... why do you separate the two? Poor QC produces poor quality doesn't it?
You can have excellent quality materials and design, but if something isn't built to the standard you require, it is lack of good/proper quality control. For example, not checking if an oil port was cleaned of all swarf, deburred, etc, after machining. That's poor quality control, which can lead to a poor quality final product. I think that's what he means by poor QC, even though the inputs (materials and design) are quality.
@whza75 I understand that but the net effect is the same ... KTM tried to maintain a premium brand whilst producing the legendary Friday afternoon bikes making ownership a punt. Everywhere we look we see happy owners and pissed off owners. Victims of poor quality then become victims of even worse customer service. Excellent case study in how to trash a brand.
They likely forgot their Mic's at KTM also... 😂
I bought 3 KTMs in 2024 from Strictly Power-sports in Pueblo, Colorado. They are all Enduros. A 350, 450, & 500 4T. Reason I bought them is they are Awesome off road machines. I ride in the mountains here and most other riders are on orange bikes as well. I’m not worried about KTMs problems either. There are plenty of part suppliers servicing the KTM community in Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, Washington and probably every state. Even though Power-sports dealers can’t sell them as fast as years past is because inflation has hit pocket books here in U.S. However, I saved my money and in retirement instead of going to work, I’m gonna go ride these bikes and enjoy them and my freedom to do so and Pray KTM pull out of this. These are hard times for everyone so my advice is to help KTM, Husqvarna, GasGas by purchasing one or two or three if you can. Happy Trails everyone and Long Live KTM.
Suggesting that people make major purchases from a company in financial administration, that has obviously been trading insolvent for some time, is completely idiotic. Trading insolvent means they continued operating the business as normal, knowing they wouldn't be able to service their debt obligations. This is a crime in every developed country, along with misleading financial reporting which they have also been partaking in. It is very curious that one CEO was absent from the meeting. If all KTM, Husqvarna and Gas Gas stock on hand was sold tomorrow, it would barely make a dent in their debts. Buying bikes will do nothing to save the company at this point, it is in the hands of their creditors and any potential investors.
i think go Bah Bah
@@MotoWot Ford, Chevy, Chrysler in U.S. had same problems as KTM does. But, the Government stepped in and bailed them out and they recovered. They also had corruption and insider trading. What corporation these days doesn’t have some corruption? Maybe Austria can bail them out and save an otherwise good company that creates jobs for people and makes quality motorcycles.
@@gregharris2928 I find it strange that you think KTM made quality motorcycles, corruption is normal, KTM was a good company despite being corrupt, and the Austrian government would bail out a company which has a history of off-shoring manufacturing to China (and is likely to do more of it if they survive). Also the US Government can print billions of US dollars to bail out companies (but not provide decent health care to its citizens?). Euro supply is controlled the European Central Bank, not member countries. Austria cannot decide to print euros like the US prints dollars. Also Ford did not get a bail out from the US government, Chrysler is going broke again and GM's debt is more than 10x earnings. In other words GM and Chrysler a pretty much back where they were in 2008-2010.
Wow, I never ever get a thumbs down. I don’t care so much for the guys at the top of KTM or Managers. I do care about the workers at the bottom who needed a job. Also, I think KTM deserves another chance to redeem themselves. Besides, go get your Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, or Honda and try to keep up with me on my KTMs in Baja or in the woods. You won’t catch me.
Ktm went bankrupt and stopped racing in 1998 only to make a huge comeback.
Tiny bankruptcy by the standards of the current one.
with the GFC strangling there competition while they had all the money so that was that , bought the media payed for gag orders on reliabilty issues for 10 years and know the responsible competitors have recovered from the Global Financial Crisis . Quality build wins everytime over the long run , ktm is far from finacial dominance like they had. They blew it ! Buying media and Championships is a expensive game , not honourable either but ktm have never been honourable anyway. How many millions of owners have had to sign there legal contract Gag Orders before they replace a motor or bike ? Bankruptcy the first time was due to poor quality and earnt reputation , media cant hide it anymore with there fake salesmen dribble of the last decade
This is a different business culture and world economy. If they come back it will likely be owned in another country unless they do something very soon.
I dont think cfmoto does much in europe. People like brands and badges it'd have to be around for decades
KTM Comet Cross, first bike.
€2.6 billion in sales in 2023 with €160 million in earnings before taxes makes the debt load of €1.8 billion very, very difficult to pay off. They will have to sell non-essential assets and reduce all expenditures. Maybe CF will make an offer to the creditors for a fraction of the debt and acquire PMG. If that would be the case, eventually most of the bikes will be built in China and/or Vietnam.
What are the yearly debt repayments on of a loan that size?
2.6 billion, over 10 years, interest only, around 5-6%, is about 13 million a month. About 156 million a year. Which is exactly earnings profit before tax.
So they really needed to ensure quality control in order to keep faith in their products, which would look after existing customers and give confidence to new customers.
If you don't have continuous good quality control then you'll not have a good business. Bikes are expensive so people need to feel secure buying them.
I bought a KTM 390 Adventure 2021 after I'd moved to the Philippines 2020. Nine months later I got rid as it was plagued with issues that KTM Philippines would not resolve. I wanted a 1290 Super duke but with such poor build quality (India build 390) total lack of customer service No way am I risking 1.3 million pesos.
Had a choice... KTM 390 Duke or a Triumph Speed 400. I'm quite happy with my Triumph and it looks like I made the right choice.
Totally different bikes. One is a naked hool, the other a well build commuter.
Really hope ktm gets this sorted out. I want to get a 350 Mx bike this year after being with Honda forever and Ktm/husky/gas gas are the only ones who make it
Make sure you find out if they still have plastic oil pump gear drives on the ktmhuskabergs , sad how many catastrophic engine failures owners have been left with the cost or part the bike out . Ouch ! Hand grenades they are called right back to 2015 the 350s , mates 350 cam snapped in half and muched his engine under 10 hrs old . KTM made him sign a Gag order before they would replace his engine , you know why , because he had it on gopro and had a modest following. Until they were told he had it recorded they were denying a new engine and to rebuild his metal strewn brand new 350. Grubbs
Quand je lis les commentaires, j'ai l'impression de revenir au moins 40 années en arrière. KTM marchait fort, mais des pannes, allumage MOTOPLAT je crois me souvenir.
Hi the question now is can they be trusted ? With real customers spending there money not with due respect you tube or magazine testers given bikes for days weeks or even months a rider doing 3k a year is well out of warranty before the first valve check is due this time it looks ok for owners next time might be different honestly i money wise could not take the risk as much as i like the bikes hope its going to be ok for the workers ride safe all
You can have the best quality control in the world. If the part is badly designed its going to fail further down the line. Id say most of ktms faults are down to poor design and materials
I love their handling, but I wouldn't give ktm 1 cent at the moment. Too decieptful, don't want to pay a fee for them to turn on quickshift and maps, no way.
Lots of inaccuracies in the video, some half truths, but certainly KTM are 110% struggling! 👍
1:20 Why does your graphic show CFMOTO down on the LH bottom corner?
KTM/Pierer doesn't own them, they have a strategic partnership to build motorcycles in China, but CFMOTO remains independent and are a 51% stakeholder in the deal.
2:10 Bikes don't have 'CFMOTO engines from China', KTM themselves released a statement detailing all affected camshaft issue engines were built in Austria and fitted to bikes at various factories.
On the quality issues, every manufacturer suffers them from time to time, in KTMs case it's more about the poor manner in which the company handles these faults and puts their head in the sand.
KTM didn’t suddenly rack up huge debts. Debt is a facet of most business. Key is the “gearing” and the ability to manage it. Debt and the cost of it in terms of interest payments are, essentially, business costs and where lenders make their money. The worst thing is for a lender to call in a debt and risk losing their investment. KTM need to do some soul searching to re-establish trust and good will that have been eroded by poor service, unreliability and the failure to honour warranties. Failure to actually acknowledge faults and excuses around them are easily blown up to be more than they are but as a KTM 890 Adventure owner I’m badly disillusioned by the nonsense being fed via my main dealer.
I wasn't aware of the numerous quality and reliability issues with KTM, or it's convoluted corporate arrangement. Combined with it's dire financial problems, it's enough to deter me from touching any KTM, which is very sad. For me, the worst part is the detrimental consequence for MV, I was seriously considering a Brutale 1000RR, but with this situation I just can't take the risk.
Hopefully Husaberg can go back to Sweden and start making excellent bikes again.
Hopefully KTM stays around. They just replaced my gas tank on my ‘21 1290 superduke R even thought the bike was 3yrs out of warranty.
KTM had a different design approach, so it’ll be a loss to the industry. But the company changed and profits were put before reliability and customer service. They will probably be bought out and not be the same . It’s a shock due to the high profile of KTM , but an age old story
I just bought a SXF 450 factory edition and my new bike is missing 1 needle roller in 2 out of the 4 bearings in the swing arm, just one from each. The big primary oil screen was not present in the engine, the shock seal blew in only 9 hours of use. That says it all right there.
I bet if you had to prove this, you would be $hit out of luck.
I see a Honda in your future 👍😂
Can't possibly imagine losing KTM enduro bikes in their various colours in Australia. They completely dominate the market.
maybe in your bubble or do you mean the 300 putt putt gang Hard enduro people , or a brought to you buy ktmtransmoto event
Chinese bikes from major manufacturers are a lot more reliable than European bikes. In fact, they are getting close to Japanese levels of reliability. The Duke 790 is the most reliable KTM on the market.
Sorry, but I'm heartbroken, been a KTM fan since I was a kid in the 70's and were "partnered" with PENTON motorcycles... Less companies building motorcycles means less competition which is always worse for consumers no matter what the product, this will not be good for off road riders in any way if it's not resolved
Doesn't bother me a bit
How about making parts AVAILABLE for purchase. I have never seen a company that has gone so far out of their way to make this simple this impossible. All these power parts listed with NO description or even availability, then you go to buy a regular part and its a total guess at what fits what. STILL looking for the factory vented airbox cover for my 23 450SMR, its exists, I've seen it in person and between me, the computer, two dealers we cant seem to even find a part number. What a joke. They need money, I need parts so what the FUCK is the problem?
I wouldn’t buy a cheap KTM. Too many issues. Yamaha and Honda have really never let me down. Suzuki too. Never owned a Kawasaki, but I would take a Kawasaki over a KTM any day. And I have felt like that for decades. I never raced. I just want to ride the bike. Not repair or do constant maintenance.
I think the enduro money and the factory bikes will go. Just a guess. I won't gamble my hobby money (a large amount) on a bike from these companies. There are so many safer options and I owe no one my loyalty, I'm paying and require to be looked after. As far as Chinese bikes go, it's still a waiting game until we know how the import tariffs turn out next year. If these cheap bikes end up close to the price of a big brand machine the dealerships will drop them. No profit means no support and then you are left with a pig. I also don't want pity from my friends for the bike I ride.
I went to buy a KTM 890 adv 2 years ago. I previously owned a 990 adv which was a great bike. I bought a 900 Tiger Rally Pro instead. Reasons. 1) they wanted to charge me extra for stuff included with other bikes. 2) The cam problem was being rumoured and when I asked about it the sales guy was basically rude. 3) I wanted a short test ride on a dirt road to see how it felt and was refused as it would have made the demo dirty.
KTM have wrecked their brand and will have a LONG way to go to recover. Once the KTM rider in the group was admired now they are the butt of jokes.
It will be interesting to see if the Chinese brands will continue to expand with all the upheaval in the Chinese economy. Maybe it's not a time for risk taking for some of those companies? There will be a company cull of the lesser known brands that produce inferior products, I suspect. There's always a company cull when times are tough. It starts in retail, and then manufacturing.
MV Agusta makes the fricking best looking bikes. I would not have sold it.
Poor quality checks is poor quality. No one wants a bike that needs repairs or items adjusted as they drive it off the lot.
KTM will have to cut on the models they don't have too many and lower their prices the world has more money at its prices they will buy Japanese and Chinese..
KTM should not only address new models and manufacturing. It should support all of its mofels especially in regards to the software, so many 1290 series with electrical gremlins and software bugs. In a year i had to replace a fuel gauge ( the replacement has a different design) something feels like a recall should have been in order, the fuel cap failed ( keyless ) after a software update, all 2020 KTM give an error on electronic suspension if the power is on with kill switch off. When it is cold, and the engine fails to start twice, an engin2 check light comes on with trc error ecu wrror and suspension error. 😅. I still like my KTM but disappointed, thats why my second bike is a Japanese make, never had issues with Japanese bikes.
Hey thanks for the update, I managed to steal a Gas Gas EC 500F new from the dealership for $12990 ride away here in Australia. I am going to hard enduro this thing round the bush for something other than the 300 2 stroke bikes I normally ride. Videos will be coming to my channel in 2025 of the 500 being thrown around the Aussie bush. Tune in to see the spectacle if you dare 🙃
not sure who got robbed to be real , youll find out if you keep it
@@motozz8258 Thanks for your input. I haven't had a 4 stroke since my 2018 Beta RR350. Looking forward to experiencing the red KTM 500 for all it's pros an cons 👍