Post apocalyptic and mind blowing. Keep at it Vlad. I raced a fast 3-sailed dinghy with my husband until 53yrs old..............now at 90yrs and your new design has my heart beating fast and hairs on my neck bristling. The horizon is no limit
Great presentation. Fantastic concept. I’m not a sailor, but I’ve been following Vlad Murnikov’s endeavors since I read his book “Race to Freedom” about FAZISI, another super-fast sailboat he designed and built nearly twenty-five years ago. If any man can spearhead a project to build the world’s fastest monohull, Vlad is that man and SpeadDream is the project.
Not only has he creativity and imagination but the motivation to get off his arse and build a boat, no doubt the majority of critics have neither, all the best Vlad!!!
Great presentation. I love the way TED finds such amazing and interesting speakers. Vlad is a real visionary. Who would ever have thought that you could sail a boat with the keel out of the water... Thank you Yandex for supporting this innovative project.
Fantastic talk Vlad about a subject you have devoted your life's work to. I'm very impressed with the innovations that continue to come from your brain over so many years! onward and faster!
Brilliant, you have good intentions Mr Vlad Murnikov. Critics and the Keyboard heros,, do not understand that these ideas will lead to greater things, they just do not get it.
he had drawings comparing this to traditional monohull and multihull designs. it is a radical way of providing the keel's counterweight (literally) to the boat's tendency to heel when at speed.
Excellent presentation of what appears to be breakthrough technology. It did appear essentially a smooth water design & I would like to know more about the limitations discovered whilst sail testing.
I sailed professionally for over twenty years, primarily in the new, used and brokerage boats sales. Equipment, rigging, lessons, racing and cruising. A Sunfish at 13ft 10.5 inches, 129lb. with its Lateen rig is a classic and many sailors got their start on Sunfish. AND many big time sailors continue to sail Sunfish because they are just a cool friggin' boat. Enjoy that wonderful board boat for what it truly is. You will never hear a famous sailor make fun of a Sunfish.... ever!
nebraskatpp I also forgot to mention s west... I have many stories about Sunfish sailors. I was teaching the Sunfish racing to some young yacht club starters around the 11-13 y.o. range, and one of the youngsters said not being able to sail is Sunfish was worse than not having a bed. It was so profound and honest and especially funny at the time, that it became a classic tale of the Sunfish around that club. However when your sailing horizon begins to want to expand... consider some of the other classics like maybe a J24 or equivalent.
Know an excellent sailor who has a Dickerson. Dickerson's are some of the best boats on the planet and are very expensive. He loves to sail his Sunfish. The Sunfish is a great boat.
+nebraskatpp When I was teaching sailing off the beach in Bayville, NY we started them in Sunfish. Then we moved them up a small bit to one of two boats; a Blue Jay or a Bullseye. The Blue Jay was my favorite because it had the two sail / spinnaker options and is stable. Also, because the next boat we moved them up to was a Lightning. If there was a promising student who wanted real fun and a bit more challenge, we moved them back down, ...to a Laser! Not so stable but, fast. I felt these were a real good set of training boats and I recommend them as a good progression for beginners.
+Ken Lee: ie rather than a keel it would be an (2 for bidirectional sailing) ama with variable length moment arm, and it would be classified as a multihull. That would also work, though it would need double the bulb weight to be easily effective this allows bidirectional sailing with lower weight, at the expense of the canting mechanism. The split (up to 180 degree) canting keel is another interesting design. Allowing for mooring in tidal flats without the boat falling over. More people will innovate in logical, though previously thought of as impossible mechanisms. Hydroelastic or variable incidence keels and dagger boards are another thing to innovate. Not to forget more use of aerodynamic surfaces for stability as well as thrust.
The "Flying Keel" concept has been realised here in Sydney Harbour in 2011 with Robert Oatley's yacht "Q". Nevertheless, I love this concept and give it my full support
The challenge in realistic sailing applications for a day-sail type of a boat is that the keel looks to be 8-12 ft deep. Most day sailing docks and boat launches are 5-6 ft deep - you would not be able to use this ship in 90% of worlds marinas. Great concept though - the hull design, hydrodynamics, and other features are excellent!
I've been following this project in facebook for couple of years now with great interest and I'm glad to see they have reached the phase to test some of their ideas in practice. One concern I had about their prototype is that are they putting too much variables in one prototype in form of all those new innovations and are they then able to get useful data about which are working, witch need tweaking and witch are possible detrimental to the boats performance?
We would love to chat with Reichel Pugh. We are both on the same wavelength trying out innovative ideas and pushing boundaries. With all due respect we feel that our way of flying a keel is much more elegant. But theirs was also a great idea. The important thing is to keep pushing forward...
It looks sleek and innovative, but I would like to know more about the sailboat. What is its LOA, LWL, and if you can show us its polar chart. One more question, what is the top speed this sailboat has achieved?
I tend to agree, and I love sailing fast on small multihulls. But of course the multihull/monohull debate rages on. You have to sail them to really understand the pros and cons.
i dont understand how the hull will hold true when the keel is flying...doesnt the hull need the keel in the water to prevent side slip from cross winds?
this keel would have to be partnered with a hull design that retains speed when heeling over. this boat would either have massive whether helm or not be able to point at anything higher than a close reach also perhaps a foil on the leeward side to right the boat but keep the keel out out of the water
I have & it looks like great fun. I would try it if my body would allow.That's also different than an old Hobie. With an old Hobie you could take a few friends out with a cooler & make a day of it. They were also cheap enough for virtually anyone that really wanted one could afford it. No doubt they could make faster boats nowadays but they are big money. The Hobie was a low tec way to get on the water & go fast.
I would think if the wind lets off a little and the flying keel enters the water, it would make the sailboat turn towards the wind (upwind) rather suddenly and the torque at the hinge where the keel is attached would be severe. When the keel is in the water all on one side, wouldn't it make the sailboat hard to steer?
lol Those were great boats without a doubt. To be honest,I haven't seen any significant improvement in the past 30 yrs. Materials nowadays are stronger & lighter but nobody has come up with a better affordable way to go fast than the Hobie Cat & Pryndil (sp?) of the 70s & 80s. Loved those boats & even a high school kid could afford to buy & sail one.
Vlad, I admire your energy and imagination and I congratulate you on this accomplishment.. This concept will make a great speed toy for the day sailing masses, but the concept does not seem appropriate for deep ocean sailing/cruising. The flying keel close to or just above big waves will put high non-linear loads on the arm and hinge causing stress peaks. On a sea going ocean boat any stress peaks should be minimized, because the dynamic loads are basically unknowable.
Very interesting talk. There may be more room for developing foiling monohulls than catamarans, which New Zealand has pushed pretty much to its limit for now.
The idea is good! Need to get rid of the keel or reduce it as much as possible. Preferably lift it out from the water. With the lighter boat comes other problems as well, it will get instable. This need more development, but they are on the right track.
Nice idea and slick looking design but from my eyes there are some fundamental problems that inhibit speed in this design. Mainly that to fly the keel the boat must cant 30-45 degrees to leeward. This means the sails are creating a lot of down force and increasing displacement and drag, as well as the weight of the rig (at rig CofG) giving negative righting moment couple with hull Centre of Buoyancy. A rig that stayed upright, or even better canted slightly to windward would be way faster, contribute to RM and generate some displacement & drag reducing lift. The displacement hull design (as opposed to planing Hull, or lifting foils) is inherently high drag due to high wetted area and hull speed issues as a factor of waterline length. In the sailing videos shown, an 18ft Skiff, or similar would be planing past it at up to 3x the speed.
It is just a big expensive dinghy. If it ever goes to the ocean, they should have a rescue ship following them closely. It is not a new concept. It is similar to flying proa. It will tack faster, so it will win a race around the buys. But in the open ocean the proa will have an advantage because it has a more narrow hull (wave piercing) and greater beam (more efficient use of outrigger weight). One more thing - Russia does have an access to big waves, some place called Pacific Ocean...
World´s fastest- No Thes is On the 16/11/12 VESTAS Sailrocket 2 set out on it's 13th run for this session Walvis Bay Namibia. In moderate conditions with around 25 knots of wind average... VSR2 smashed the previous Outright world record by the biggest margin in the records history*. Paul larsen averaged 59.23 knots over the record 500 meter course and peaked at over 63 knots.
I designed and built a 13ft dingy in tortured plywood. A small person can lift it on to a car top rack. It will plane upwind in light wind. It’s easy to right after a capsize and will easily outsail a Laser under all conditions. I decided that the world didn’t need another bankrupt boat builder and went on to other hobbies. It was fun while it lasted.
The hull is more or less flat on the bottom. It is not inherently unstable. It is self righting unlike a catamaran which has a defined tipping point. And it's spelled gunwales.
Flat water design only. Interesting idea to get the keel clear of the water, good; also good idea to shed water quickly so no real foredeck. But the ocean would chew this up and spit it out pretty damn fast.
Fred is correct but remember that the AC is a closed course and the ultimate goal here is fast around the world, not fastest around the buoy's. I think this will evolve into a realistic approach to that goal. Remember also that a mere 110 years ago, two brothers in a loft designed and built the Kitty Hawk. The naysayer's were there with their doubts and condemnation. Now we have rovers on other celestial bodies, planes so fast that they will circumnavigate in hours, Virgin Galactic etc. Sail on!
Why does light mean not stable? What does stable mean and what do waves have to do with it? Cannot strong materials and good design overcome these concerns?
Wouldn't it be way easier to just have another hull out at a further distance? then you avoid all the drag when the keel hits the water and you have more righting moment. And you don't need any equipment for moving the ballast from side to side. Multihull is so much simpler and more powerful
Yes but multihull foilers cannot go in the open ocean E.I with waves and very strong winds without capsizing or breaking. He's looking for a more durable, practical and efficient aspect to sailing long distances. (If I understand correctly) Either way, you could apply his design to multihull foilers so it is a win win situation
This is not even close to the fastest sailboat in the world, record speed is 55 knots and they had to be foiling to do that. I'm disappointed in this guy. Also at 20:42 things seem unnaturally fast and jerky like when the guy uses the winch.
I think he was referring to its potential past this prototype stage. That said, I don't see anything truly revolutionary here. Canting keels are not new. This one happens to spend some of the time above the surface.
You need to change the title, so it is not misleading. It may be the fastest monohull sailboat but it's not the "world's fastest sailboat" It is a very cool and ingenious idea though...
To anyone in the comments saying that it dosent have enough CLR to maintain steerage, the important portion of CLR isn't how much you have but where it's positioned. As long as the CE is directly above the CLR the boat will sail properly. That dosent mean that the design is perfect though, as it is still clearly not the fastest monohull.
Pretty cool. But ask yourself this...why not just take your typical trimaran and pump water from the submerged float into the windward (out of the water) float? It'd be probably just as fast, just as stable and just as unwieldy on tacks and gybes. Or better yet, build a proa.
Why not share the ballast across two keels mounted to either side of the hull. Cant the windward keel into flying position while the leeward keel is dropped into the water and acts as a foil. Wouldn't need daggerboards this way either.
The future of sailing isn't counter weight, that's been done before, it's hydrofoils and wing sails. The worlds fastest sailing boats all have hydrofoils plus they´re multihulls. Another advantage of the multihull is the weight distribution. The hulls can be really small which in turn gives minimal wet surface. Combine that with hydrofoils you get L'hydroptère, second fastest sailing vessel but fastest "boat" in the world. Combine that with wing sails, new foil designs, now thats the future.
Wonder how tough it is to drive, trying to steer a light-as-hell hull around with a huge lead bulb extended that far away would be tough. So much moment of inertia to fight... I think it will struggle driving up and down on waves. The reduced drag could make it a super fast downwind sled, but the keel won't be out of the water all the time when there are waves. Imagine driving down a wave, then the bulb slams into another wave next to you and just swings the boat around into the breeze.
Well, actually the flying keel is far from being unique... All Open 60 Boats can do this!! The side of the boat has ballasts, when the boat heels, all the side of the hull acts as a giant keel. For example, you can see a flying keel if you search for the video "Alex Thomson attempts the Keel Walk" on youtube.
Yes, but the keels on the Imoca 60 boats don't cant completely out of the water when sailing, even if they have foils. The bulb is still well below the surface. I don't think they're considered as 'flying keel' designs.
for commercial ships you need mor room. How would you sail a container ship with a counter weight? There are more reasonable ideas like power kites...german skysails... a kite would also smoke any wingsail when pulling a hydrofoil hull. Take 300m2, fly it 1000-1500m.
I'm not entirely sure how this boat doesnt go sideways up wind. Seems bizarre that the chines alone keep it tracking. I would also love some speed data. What speeds are achieved upwind, downwind, beam reach and in what windspeeds and sea states.
That's basically just a windsurf with a larger base... and you couldn't take that anywhere where there are waves because it's not stable. Did you see it fly, crash, and snap in two when the wind changed slightly?
Completely forgot the dynamics of windsurfing in his talk. bring the sail into the wind supporting load to get lift and use the leeward rail to get up wind.
video location 6:56 route sailing around the world? I`d say that is one screwed up looking route to take to sail around the world and would only make sense if the world was flat! LOL
Very interesting project and I've been following them for some time (thanks SA). However the effect of healing the entire rig to leeward would be a great loss in efficiency, when compared to a flatter cat that project a near vertical sail plan. The loss of high pressure from the tip vortex will increase as the rig moves toward horizontal. Plus you have a negative effect of the weight of the rig as it fall to leeward. Maybe canting the rig to windward would help, hey works great for wind surfers.
Your observations are quite profound. The other aspect that those engineering sailboats need to always take into consideration, if they hope to expand on their changes and ideas, is that direction which will be the one to take their ideas even further.... is it marketable? It used to be that an idea like say Hobie or events like the Americas Cup produced that which would be the cutting edge and later become the standard in the industry.
+Bryan Milne I believe there have been investigations on hauling the stick to windward but, I can't put a name on it at the moment. I'm sure I've read about it and even heard talks on it so, some web searching should pull it up.
I think the rising keel for close and upwind, for downwind some boats rise their daggerboard to reduce water resistance, because the centerboard is only useful for reach and broad each. So, i think they are aiming for close upwind, because relative wind will get stronger and give more power to sailing.
Only could watch a little bit till i realalized "He is a knob" 1 A keel normally has 2 functions, counterweight and lateral resistance. why is he stating people don't unerstand ? he should just call it a counterweight. The boat is a slick looking skiff with a hiking aid for the old guys !
SWATH (small waterlplane area twin hulls) are hulls with aerodynamic platforms that ride above the water & are either sail or power boats, this is the future. No heeling or up & down, or side to side motion. Everything rides on two buoyant torpedo shaped underwater hulls with fixed & mechanicical fins & on the sides & bottom of the torpedo shaped hulls for stabilization. The structure/boat sits high above the underwater hulls. The high above structure is attached to the underwater torpedos by samurai shaped sword like columns that slice through the water at four different points, to the top of underwater hulls in the front & the rear. The underwater hulls only have to be buoyant enough to float the structure that sits 20-30 ft high above the water, so the ocean swells & waves don't effect it. The powerplant can be placed on the above water structure. The underwater hulls only need rudders & propellers to propel & steer the vessel. They can be powered hydraulicly or electrically.
SWATH is fantastic for stability, probably the best potential in that respect. In terms of pure speed it isn't superior than the fastest existing designs. There's more wetted area than multihulls have and much more compared to hydrofoils. I see SWATH as being advantageous for large cargo vessels and perhaps any ship in trans-oceanic routes where rough seas are encountered. This is really outside the scope of cutting edge performance sailing where absolute speed over comfort is the priority and focus.
I would argue that if this is true we should see it competeing in the America's Cup. Today, without a doubt, the catermaran has proven to be the fastest sailboat. Use simple logic. There is more hull and keel area out of the water and less hull and keel area (drag) in the water when sailing close hauled in the cat than with this design. Also the cat has more distance from centerline to counteract the force of the wind on the sails as the crew hikes out on the windward hull using basic leverage.
When one talks about the fastest sailing boat one needs to be very careful. To me that boat design does well in high winds but it would not be the fastest in low winds. Anything would do well in very high winds but to design a hull that goes fast in low winds, well that is a better challenge. Incidentally with that ballast keel cantilevered as it is, I would not like to see it in short high waves where the inertia of that weight would need some very good foundation support in that hull. I know keels which were lost in heavy weather and they looked tougher that what I see on this boat. Still it is a good experimental boat, but not the fastest!
Why don't you put the moving keel on top of the gunwales, and still slide it across. Like the old VJs and Skates (old Australian skiffs). Get it right out of the water
does she not drifted terribly on upwind legs? what provides resistence to the sea? I know when I sail without a centreboard, all pointing ability is lost!
just like a multihull, which dont have centerboards, when the rail goes in the water it creates a lot of resistance therefore acting like a centerboard
If the boat is designed to get resistance to sideways drift it can be designed to obtain that from a significant chine running the whole length of the boat. This would allow the keel and bulb to be flown above the water on the windward side. Robin
It's got dagger boards. So the drag factor saved by the Flying (part time) lead Keel is largely reinstated. This is extra work at the very time that the crew are busiest.
I'll still take the cat over the V hull. I don't like the idea of hanging out over the gunnels trying to keep an inherently unstable hull design afloat.
hi, in France we have a young sailboat designer in year 2k who built this boat : shit, I can't put url :-( try searching "Defline 19" with google images
That ballast keel is going to win you lots of friends in busy start lines and mark roundings.
And now basically every racer worth anything (not one design) has a canting keel and hydrofoils or other hydrodynamic righting arm
If you are rounding an mark wouldn’t the keel be rotating to the other side or under the boat .
Post apocalyptic and mind blowing. Keep at it Vlad. I raced a fast 3-sailed dinghy with my husband until 53yrs old..............now at 90yrs and your new design has my heart beating fast and hairs on my neck bristling. The horizon is no limit
this man is chasing his dreams. stood up there speaking a language that is not his own, but gave it his all. amazing .just amazing.
Vlad is not only a modern-day visionary... he has the great ability of putting together cohesive teams for bringing projects to fruition.
Great presentation. Fantastic concept. I’m not a sailor, but I’ve been following Vlad Murnikov’s endeavors since I read his book “Race to Freedom” about FAZISI, another super-fast sailboat he designed and built nearly twenty-five years ago. If any man can spearhead a project to build the world’s fastest monohull, Vlad is that man and SpeadDream is the project.
Not only has he creativity and imagination but the motivation to get off his arse and build a boat, no doubt the majority of critics have neither, all the best Vlad!!!
Great presentation. I love the way TED finds such amazing and interesting speakers. Vlad is a real visionary. Who would ever have thought that you could sail a boat with the keel out of the water... Thank you Yandex for supporting this innovative project.
this man is amazing!!! keep going don't give in to pressure Mr Vlad Murnikov! Excellent stuff!
Fantastic talk Vlad about a subject you have devoted your life's work to. I'm very impressed with the innovations that continue to come from your brain over so many years! onward and faster!
Vlad is a genius. no other way to put it. A modern day racing Viking, operating on the highest level of Contemporary science and design.
Brilliant, you have good intentions Mr Vlad Murnikov. Critics and the Keyboard heros,, do not understand that these ideas will lead to greater things, they just do not get it.
he had drawings comparing this to traditional monohull and multihull designs. it is a radical way of providing the keel's counterweight (literally) to the boat's tendency to heel when at speed.
снимаю шляпу !!!! Смелое решение и настойчивость в воплощении своей мечты.
Excellent presentation of what appears to be breakthrough technology.
It did appear essentially a smooth water design & I would like to know more about the limitations discovered whilst sail testing.
very refreshing look at sailing and design great inovation.
i'm just learning to sail. should I stick with my sunfish for now ?
yes
I sailed professionally for over twenty years, primarily in the new, used and brokerage boats sales. Equipment, rigging, lessons, racing and cruising. A Sunfish at 13ft 10.5 inches, 129lb. with its Lateen rig is a classic and many sailors got their start on Sunfish. AND many big time sailors continue to sail Sunfish because they are just a cool friggin' boat. Enjoy that wonderful board boat for what it truly is. You will never hear a famous sailor make fun of a Sunfish.... ever!
nebraskatpp I also forgot to mention s west... I have many stories about Sunfish sailors. I was teaching the Sunfish racing to some young yacht club starters around the 11-13 y.o. range, and one of the youngsters said not being able to sail is Sunfish was worse than not having a bed. It was so profound and honest and especially funny at the time, that it became a classic tale of the Sunfish around that club. However when your sailing horizon begins to want to expand... consider some of the other classics like maybe a J24 or equivalent.
Know an excellent sailor who has a Dickerson. Dickerson's are some of the best boats on the planet and are very expensive. He loves to sail his Sunfish. The Sunfish is a great boat.
+nebraskatpp When I was teaching sailing off the beach in Bayville, NY we started them in Sunfish. Then we moved them up a small bit to one of two boats; a Blue Jay or a Bullseye. The Blue Jay was my favorite because it had the two sail / spinnaker options and is stable. Also, because the next boat we moved them up to was a Lightning. If there was a promising student who wanted real fun and a bit more challenge, we moved them back down, ...to a Laser! Not so stable but, fast. I felt these were a real good set of training boats and I recommend them as a good progression for beginners.
So, if it has centerboards, why is the keel in the water at all? why not just mount it on the deck on a slider with a big arm?
that wouldn't be innovative
+Ken Lee: ie rather than a keel it would be an (2 for bidirectional sailing) ama with variable length moment arm, and it would be classified as a multihull.
That would also work, though it would need double the bulb weight to be easily effective this allows bidirectional sailing with lower weight, at the expense of the canting mechanism.
The split (up to 180 degree) canting keel is another interesting design. Allowing for mooring in tidal flats without the boat falling over.
More people will innovate in logical, though previously thought of as impossible mechanisms.
Hydroelastic or variable incidence keels and dagger boards are another thing to innovate. Not to forget more use of aerodynamic surfaces for stability as well as thrust.
The "Flying Keel" concept has been realised here in Sydney Harbour in 2011 with Robert Oatley's yacht "Q". Nevertheless, I love this concept and give it my full support
The challenge in realistic sailing applications for a day-sail type of a boat is that the keel looks to be 8-12 ft deep. Most day sailing docks and boat launches are 5-6 ft deep - you would not be able to use this ship in 90% of worlds marinas. Great concept though - the hull design, hydrodynamics, and other features are excellent!
very good idea Mr Murnikov,
Remarkable !!!!!!
I've been following this project in facebook for couple of years now with great interest and I'm glad to see they have reached the phase to test some of their ideas in practice.
One concern I had about their prototype is that are they putting too much variables in one prototype in form of all those new innovations and are they then able to get useful data about which are working, witch need tweaking and witch are possible detrimental to the boats performance?
We would love to chat with Reichel Pugh. We are both on the same wavelength trying out innovative ideas and pushing boundaries. With all due respect we feel that our way of flying a keel is much more elegant. But theirs was also a great idea. The important thing is to keep pushing forward...
Completely agree! Combine with wing sails... and you get an AC72!
I understand the canting keel countering the healing moment of the sail, but then what is providing the lateral resistance required to go to weather?
It looks sleek and innovative, but I would like to know more about the sailboat. What is its LOA, LWL, and if you can show us its polar chart. One more question, what is the top speed this sailboat has achieved?
Did you notice that, at the end, during the promo clip, when the keel came out of the water how the boat seemed to leap forward? WOW!
Nothing compared to the speed boost a good foil will provide when it starts flying.
looks awesome. will be keeping an eye on vlad's designs. for now though - kitesurfing > sailing until I get a few more grey hairs.
I tend to agree, and I love sailing fast on small multihulls. But of course the multihull/monohull debate rages on. You have to sail them to really understand the pros and cons.
i dont understand how the hull will hold true when the keel is flying...doesnt the hull need the keel in the water to prevent side slip from cross winds?
this keel would have to be partnered with a hull design that retains speed when heeling over.
this boat would either have massive whether helm or not be able to point at anything higher than a close reach
also perhaps a foil on the leeward side to right the boat but keep the keel out out of the water
I have & it looks like great fun. I would try it if my body would allow.That's also different than an old Hobie. With an old Hobie you could take a few friends out with a cooler & make a day of it. They were also cheap enough for virtually anyone that really wanted one could afford it. No doubt they could make faster boats nowadays but they are big money. The Hobie was a low tec way to get on the water & go fast.
What's the tradoff with leeward drift?
wouldn't taking away the keel make it unstable? and what about the centre of lateral resistance?
I would think if the wind lets off a little and the flying keel enters the water, it would make the sailboat turn towards the wind (upwind) rather suddenly and the torque at the hinge where the keel is attached would be severe. When the keel is in the water all on one side, wouldn't it make the sailboat hard to steer?
I'd love to take one around the beer cans. I've done most every kind of sailboat short of the newest all out racing designs.
lol Those were great boats without a doubt. To be honest,I haven't seen any significant improvement in the past 30 yrs. Materials nowadays are stronger & lighter but nobody has come up with a better affordable way to go fast than the Hobie Cat & Pryndil (sp?) of the 70s & 80s. Loved those boats & even a high school kid could afford to buy & sail one.
Also the sharp 'chines' or edges underwater help the boat track straight! :)
and of course super "safe" in rough weather specially this extended "keel" it will Never break
Vlad, I admire your energy and imagination and I congratulate you on this accomplishment.. This concept will make a great speed toy for the day sailing masses, but the concept does not seem appropriate for deep ocean sailing/cruising. The flying keel close to or just above big waves will put high non-linear loads on the arm and hinge causing stress peaks. On a sea going ocean boat any stress peaks should be minimized, because the dynamic loads are basically unknowable.
Very interesting talk. There may be more room for developing foiling monohulls than catamarans, which New Zealand has pushed pretty much to its limit for now.
a one off, He's talking production open water boat. no diss on VSR2 and the incredible work done there but this is different altogether.
The idea is good! Need to get rid of the keel or reduce it as much as possible.
Preferably lift it out from the water. With the lighter boat comes other problems as well, it will get instable. This need more development, but they are on the right track.
The title is misleading. I assumed it would be a video about the Vestas Sail Rocket.
how much sideslip would you get and is this a problem
Nice idea and slick looking design but from my eyes there are some fundamental problems that inhibit speed in this design.
Mainly that to fly the keel the boat must cant 30-45 degrees to leeward. This means the sails are creating a lot of down force and increasing displacement and drag, as well as the weight of the rig (at rig CofG) giving negative righting moment couple with hull Centre of Buoyancy.
A rig that stayed upright, or even better canted slightly to windward would be way faster, contribute to RM and generate some displacement & drag reducing lift.
The displacement hull design (as opposed to planing Hull, or lifting foils) is inherently high drag due to high wetted area and hull speed issues as a factor of waterline length.
In the sailing videos shown, an 18ft Skiff, or similar would be planing past it at up to 3x the speed.
It is just a big expensive dinghy. If it ever goes to the ocean, they should have a rescue ship following them closely. It is not a new concept. It is similar to flying proa. It will tack faster, so it will win a race around the buys. But in the open ocean the proa will have an advantage because it has a more narrow hull (wave piercing) and greater beam (more efficient use of outrigger weight). One more thing - Russia does have an access to big waves, some place called Pacific Ocean...
World´s fastest- No
Thes is
On the 16/11/12 VESTAS Sailrocket 2 set out on it's 13th run for this session Walvis Bay Namibia. In moderate conditions with around 25 knots of wind average... VSR2 smashed the previous Outright world record by the biggest margin in the records history*. Paul larsen averaged 59.23 knots over the record 500 meter course and peaked at over 63 knots.
tek kelimeyle mükemmel çok iyi düşünülmüş hızlı
Angus, I can see 2 daggerboards, altho they are not mentioned in the video.
Jim Fleming
I designed and built a 13ft dingy in tortured plywood. A small person can lift it on to a car top rack. It will plane upwind in light wind. It’s easy to right after a capsize and will easily outsail a Laser under all conditions. I decided that the world didn’t need another bankrupt boat builder and went on to other hobbies. It was fun while it lasted.
I could probably never detail ALL of the smaller boats (16' and under) I have sailed. Haven't done a race equipped Laser yet :(
The hull is more or less flat on the bottom. It is not inherently unstable. It is self righting unlike a catamaran which has a defined tipping point. And it's spelled gunwales.
The title of the talk and video is "From Impossible Idea to Reality - World's Fastest Sailboat". This is nothing like the world's fastest sailboat.
What about sailng this"design" in rought weather (force 5 or more) offshore.
Flat water design only. Interesting idea to get the keel clear of the water, good; also good idea to shed water quickly so no real foredeck. But the ocean would chew this up and spit it out pretty damn fast.
is this not the same as linqboats ? What is so new?
Fred is correct but remember that the AC is a closed course and the ultimate goal here is fast around the world, not fastest around the buoy's. I think this will evolve into a realistic approach to that goal. Remember also that a mere 110 years ago, two brothers in a loft designed and built the Kitty Hawk. The naysayer's were there with their doubts and condemnation. Now we have rovers on other celestial bodies, planes so fast that they will circumnavigate in hours, Virgin Galactic etc. Sail on!
Why does light mean not stable? What does stable mean and what do waves have to do with it? Cannot strong materials and good design overcome these concerns?
How fast does it go
Is it faster than the Hobie Trifoiler
Wouldn't it be way easier to just have another hull out at a further distance? then you avoid all the drag when the keel hits the water and you have more righting moment. And you don't need any equipment for moving the ballast from side to side. Multihull is so much simpler and more powerful
Looks like the sailing footage at the end of the clip has been speeded up a bit.
Bernard C sped
Yes but multihull foilers cannot go in the open ocean E.I with waves and very strong winds without capsizing or breaking.
He's looking for a more durable, practical and efficient aspect to sailing long distances. (If I understand correctly)
Either way, you could apply his design to multihull foilers so it is a win win situation
This is not even close to the fastest sailboat in the world, record speed is 55 knots and they had to be foiling to do that. I'm disappointed in this guy. Also at 20:42 things seem unnaturally fast and jerky like when the guy uses the winch.
speed ed up as the boat is a load of crap and slow - spotted as well
65 knots is the record
No way. This is not the worlds fastest sail boat. Not even close.
Americas cup boats do 40+ knots so yeah he has no right saying it is the fastest sailboat in the world
I think he was referring to its potential past this prototype stage. That said, I don't see anything truly revolutionary here. Canting keels are not new. This one happens to spend some of the time above the surface.
You need to change the title, so it is not misleading. It may be the fastest monohull sailboat but it's not the "world's fastest sailboat"
It is a very cool and ingenious idea though...
To anyone in the comments saying that it dosent have enough CLR to maintain steerage, the important portion of CLR isn't how much you have but where it's positioned. As long as the CE is directly above the CLR the boat will sail properly. That dosent mean that the design is perfect though, as it is still clearly not the fastest monohull.
i don't know about you but would you go to sea with a wing sail up? if you have to reef what happens? hmmm..... maybe a telescopic wingsail!! :D
Pretty cool. But ask yourself this...why not just take your typical trimaran and pump water from the submerged float into the windward (out of the water) float? It'd be probably just as fast, just as stable and just as unwieldy on tacks and gybes. Or better yet, build a proa.
Why not share the ballast across two keels mounted to either side of the hull. Cant the windward keel into flying position while the leeward keel is dropped into the water and acts as a foil. Wouldn't need daggerboards this way either.
The future of sailing isn't counter weight, that's been done before, it's hydrofoils and wing sails. The worlds fastest sailing boats all have hydrofoils plus they´re multihulls. Another advantage of the multihull is the weight distribution. The hulls can be really small which in turn gives minimal wet surface. Combine that with hydrofoils you get L'hydroptère, second fastest sailing vessel but fastest "boat" in the world. Combine that with wing sails, new foil designs, now thats the future.
The key to speed is to get the hull out of the water & 'fly' on hydrofoils.
That design is never going to be the "Worlds fastest sailboat"
wow!
Wonder how tough it is to drive, trying to steer a light-as-hell hull around with a huge lead bulb extended that far away would be tough. So much moment of inertia to fight... I think it will struggle driving up and down on waves. The reduced drag could make it a super fast downwind sled, but the keel won't be out of the water all the time when there are waves. Imagine driving down a wave, then the bulb slams into another wave next to you and just swings the boat around into the breeze.
Well, actually the flying keel is far from being unique... All Open 60 Boats can do this!! The side of the boat has ballasts, when the boat heels, all the side of the hull acts as a giant keel. For example, you can see a flying keel if you search for the video "Alex Thomson attempts the Keel Walk" on youtube.
Yes, but the keels on the Imoca 60 boats don't cant completely out of the water when sailing, even if they have foils. The bulb is still well below the surface. I don't think they're considered as 'flying keel' designs.
for commercial ships you need mor room. How would you sail a container ship with a counter weight? There are more reasonable ideas like power kites...german skysails... a kite would also smoke any wingsail when pulling a hydrofoil hull. Take 300m2, fly it 1000-1500m.
I'm not entirely sure how this boat doesnt go sideways up wind. Seems bizarre that the chines alone keep it tracking.
I would also love some speed data. What speeds are achieved upwind, downwind, beam reach and in what windspeeds and sea states.
That's basically just a windsurf with a larger base... and you couldn't take that anywhere where there are waves because it's not stable. Did you see it fly, crash, and snap in two when the wind changed slightly?
Try seascape..what a rocket:)
Completely forgot the dynamics of windsurfing in his talk. bring the sail into the wind supporting load to get lift and use the leeward rail to get up wind.
amen
video location 6:56 route sailing around the world? I`d say that is one screwed up looking route to take to sail around the world and would only make sense if the world was flat! LOL
Very interesting project and I've been following them for some time (thanks SA). However the effect of healing the entire rig to leeward would be a great loss in efficiency, when compared to a flatter cat that project a near vertical sail plan. The loss of high pressure from the tip vortex will increase as the rig moves toward horizontal. Plus you have a negative effect of the weight of the rig as it fall to leeward. Maybe canting the rig to windward would help, hey works great for wind surfers.
Your observations are quite profound. The other aspect that those engineering sailboats need to always take into consideration, if they hope to expand on their changes and ideas, is that direction which will be the one to take their ideas even further.... is it marketable? It used to be that an idea like say Hobie or events like the Americas Cup produced that which would be the cutting edge and later become the standard in the industry.
+Bryan Milne I believe there have been investigations on hauling the stick to windward but, I can't put a name on it at the moment. I'm sure I've read about it and even heard talks on it so, some web searching should pull it up.
I think the rising keel for close and upwind, for downwind some boats rise their daggerboard to reduce water resistance, because the centerboard is only useful for reach and broad each.
So, i think they are aiming for close upwind, because relative wind will get stronger and give more power to sailing.
Only could watch a little bit till i realalized "He is a knob" 1 A keel normally has 2 functions, counterweight and lateral resistance. why is he stating people don't unerstand ? he should just call it a counterweight. The boat is a slick looking skiff with a hiking aid for the old guys !
This wouldn't even be a competator to modern foilers
Why not a wing sail as well? Use the advances proven in multi-hulls to complement this 'mono-hull based upon a multi-hull.'
SWATH (small waterlplane area twin hulls) are hulls with aerodynamic platforms that ride above the water & are either sail or power boats, this is the future. No heeling or up & down, or side to side motion. Everything rides on two buoyant torpedo shaped underwater hulls with fixed & mechanicical fins & on the sides & bottom of the torpedo shaped hulls for stabilization. The structure/boat sits high above the underwater hulls. The high above structure is attached to the underwater torpedos by samurai shaped sword like columns that slice through the water at four different points, to the top of underwater hulls in the front & the rear. The underwater hulls only have to be buoyant enough to float the structure that sits 20-30 ft high above the water, so the ocean swells & waves don't effect it. The powerplant can be placed on the above water structure. The underwater hulls only need rudders & propellers to propel & steer the vessel. They can be powered hydraulicly or electrically.
SWATH is fantastic for stability, probably the best potential in that respect. In terms of pure speed it isn't superior than the fastest existing designs. There's more wetted area than multihulls have and much more compared to hydrofoils. I see SWATH as being advantageous for large cargo vessels and perhaps any ship in trans-oceanic routes where rough seas are encountered. This is really outside the scope of cutting edge performance sailing where absolute speed over comfort is the priority and focus.
Slow!
Talk about polishing a lead-mine turd...
Get a Moth - then you'll have a fast sailboat.
a skiff 18 wouldn't be bad either
Greg Wise have fun sailing a moth though 50 foot pacific waves
if you scaled a moth up in the same way they are talking about scaling this up to do the same job then yes its a valid comment for sure.
I would argue that if this is true we should see it competeing in the America's Cup. Today, without a doubt, the catermaran has proven to be the fastest sailboat. Use simple logic. There is more hull and keel area out of the water and less hull and keel area (drag) in the water when sailing close hauled in the cat than with this design. Also the cat has more distance from centerline to counteract the force of the wind on the sails as the crew hikes out on the windward hull using basic leverage.
maybe talk less about what a great pioneer you are and more about the actual design
Yes and maybe more about the people whose ideas you stole.
Wouldn't it be incredible to see cargo ships make a return to sail power.
So, not really all kinds at all.... The range of dinghys to sail is vast. Boats like the 18ft skiffs, 49er and rs700 are immense.
When one talks about the fastest sailing boat one needs to be very careful. To me that boat design does well in high winds but it would not be the fastest in low winds. Anything would do well in very high winds but to design a hull that goes fast in low winds, well that is a better challenge.
Incidentally with that ballast keel cantilevered as it is, I would not like to see it in short high waves where the inertia of that weight would need some very good foundation support in that hull. I know keels which were lost in heavy weather and they looked tougher that what I see on this boat. Still it is a good experimental boat, but not the fastest!
Why don't you put the moving keel on top of the gunwales, and still slide it across. Like the old VJs and Skates (old Australian skiffs). Get it right out of the water
Hmm... Very cool... Hope it works in real seas...
does she not drifted terribly on upwind legs? what provides resistence to the sea? I know when I sail without a centreboard, all pointing ability is lost!
just like a multihull, which dont have centerboards, when the rail goes in the water it creates a lot of resistance therefore acting like a centerboard
Eryn Donaldson No it uses centre boards
Eryn Donaldson That is completely wrong it has centerboards for the upwind leg as one on each side.
If the boat is designed to get resistance to sideways drift it can be designed to obtain that from a significant chine running the whole length of the boat. This would allow the keel and bulb to be flown above the water on the windward side. Robin
It's got dagger boards. So the drag factor saved by the Flying (part time) lead Keel is largely reinstated. This is extra work at the very time that the crew are busiest.
This " World's Fastest " is anything BUT fast. We.re far from 100km/hr here...
I'll still take the cat over the V hull. I don't like the idea of hanging out over the gunnels trying to keep an inherently unstable hull design afloat.
hi, in France we have a young sailboat designer in year 2k who built this boat :
shit, I can't put url :-(
try searching "Defline 19" with google images
I believe there are twin daggerboards...