@@quickdrawmcgraw3567 A good 5GHz connection to a good router is plenty reliable for any gaming (where money isn't on the line anyway). The problem is people use bad hardware and/or have shitty in-home conditions for their wifi (interference from other electronics, thick walls, etc), but mostly it's that people use 2.4GHz wifi on ISP provided routers out of ignorance.
@@DeToxCommunity in short using Fiber Optic and other Non-Wireless solutions can solve the issue, 5G network needs a bit more of time to expand ( Finishing the expanding in 2022 or 2023 I guess in most countries ) and it's much better than 4G since it can even be compared to Fiber Optic or other Non-Wireless Network solutions. But still Fiber Optic and Non-Wireless Network Solutions (maybe 5G too) can have some issues that can be caused by the ISP themselves so someone need to tell the ISP about the issue that is happening in their area to solve it or improve the reliability of the network and etc.
Dont Or Cant* IGN and gamespot are staffed by idiots who can talk off a written script and make boring PG13 jokes. They have no original or unique takes, and they never will. Because theyre basically empty .
This is one of the best tech videos on the channel, doesn't even look like sponsored. One thing that games that use dedicated servers should do is have a P2P backup. Several online games from early 2000's died because servers shutdown. Some are revived by community using unnoficial servers, but a lot is just dead. With a P2P backup, you could in theory play a game that is not supported anymore by the depveloper without having to mod or hack the game.
Fighting Game Community: Rollback netcode, despite some minor drawbacks, makes it feel like playing offline! Japanese developers: Input lag code works fine in our country so it means it should be fine everywhere else! FGC: ...
I spent a few years developing a fast paced action shooter game engine called Bitphoria and jitter is a PITA to mitigate. The only real way to handle it is to buffer incoming packets long enough to smooth out the jitter. You can dynamically adapt the buffer size based on detected jitter variation, slowly increase/reduce the buffer delay as needed. The end result is that the player's experience is behind the actual game state even more than the network latency. Most connections only need a jitter buffer delay of ~30ms which isn't so bad at all but sometimes you need 100-200ms for people on crappy broadband that are far away from a server, and without the jitter buffering objects can't move smoothly through the world for them, speeding up and slowing down. Netcode is one of my favorite things to work on because it's such an interesting problem. It's been really awesome seeing what games have been able to pull off over on Battlenonsense's channel.
Kids are spoiled nowadays. Back in the 14.4 modem days I had to yell at my mom not to pick up the phone because I was playing command and conquer online on my Packard Bell.
haha i hear you. Until fairly recently i still had issues even with ADSL as if the phone rang it disconnected me from the internet and that was only 3 years ago.
1200 baud modem playing some text based/ASCII graphicy galaxy conquest game on a C64 hosted BBS where you only got ONE turn a day. When someone picked up the phone it was soul crushing.
They also get screwed, most every game was server based and allowed players to host their own servers. Kids today have to put up with good connections but horrible peer networking and games with no real communities as the default. Finding a handful of servers where you knew you were in for a fun social experience just isn't a thing anymore and having your own friends list is no replacement. It's what makes me favour singleplayer games in general in recent years.
Rock music? It's electronic gibberish music haha. The kind of stuff you make on your computer without ever touching an instrument. But yeah, that'd be funny. I honestly can't envision these people doing anything but playing video games haha. Not without laughing.
For over a decade on console, lag compensation has gotten my player killed in video games numerous times. My connection speed had always been top notch. My theory has always been that, the cleaner your connection is; the easier it is for lagging players to conquer you. Because of lag compensation's cons.
There are some Japanese developers who DO use rollback, but they use terrible rollback based on their in house solution. It's so bad, that they may as well have used delay-based. GGPO is literally free and the developers of it are always willing to help you. There should be no excuse for bad netcode anymore.
One of their massive problems that they don't quite touch on in this video is Client-side authority vs Server-side authority. (EFT uses client-side, almost every other competitive FPS uses Server-side) Look for a video by Veritas called "A theory about stutters and lag | Getting Tarkov'd" Basically, if someone is lagging, their client is authoritative and the server accepts their lag as true, making them move unsmooth, jittery. So everyone trying to shoot you has to hit this stuttering bullshit target. Meanwhile, on your end, everything looks fine, you can come around corners and kill people and your inputs just get accepted as true by the server. Absolute bullshit. I love Tarkov but I just don't enjoy playing it because it's completely unfair, no fight feels fair. Feels like it's always in the hands of the netcode and lag.
I know Japanese developers were guilty of this, testing the netcode Japan only from one end to the other assuming it works. I know Arc System Works and Capcom have gotten better on that, testing the connection from Japan to places outside of Japan lol.
I still remember my first time playing any game online: _Star Wars Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight._ One of its major flaws (over time) was that _everything_ involving your character was executed on your end with no anti-cheat protections, so anyone who knew how to mod game files could easily create unfair advantages -- such as making the basic stormtrooper rifle fire Concussion Rifle primary bullets while also negating splash damage to themselves (remember, all damage is calculated with the _target's_ clientside data).
Very happy you guys linked Infilament's article. His whole website is just full of knowledge about Killer Instinct but his side articles about bugs & netcode are so good.
Online gaming has come a long way since the days of 14.4 baud modems. I remember playing Everquest back during around the time of it's launch and boy was there lag... constant crashes while zoning from 1 zone to another, sitting and waiting sometimes a min for the character/NPC locations updated to your client, etc. Things are night and day now but I still see some of the same issues in modern online games.
Yep. Those days of playing Diablo/Unreal Tournament were quite interesting as well other games at the time. But it was these two that I poured tons of time into. Lag got me destroyed a lot, which was frustrating. But online gaming was new and it was just cool to play with other people over the internet. It was a great time.
There is a *realy* interesting GDC Talk about the Netcode in Overwatch. It's super fascinating to what lengths they go to provide a smooth multiplayer experience. It's called "Overwatch Gameplay Architecture and Netcode"
Playing in Hawaii, we generally have higher pings but a lot of games are still decent. Last I played overwatch though, holy fuck is that game smooth! Where as with cod, it actually feels worse now that they have skill base matchmaking instead of connection based
The closer you live to a server, the less lag, you have, it's not fair. Servers are expensive to keep, so developers and publishers use minimum servers.
As a computer engineer, online gaming is a true engineering accomplishment, considering what they had to work with. It's literally making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. in another note, this is also why I firmly believe that game streaming will never be a thing that takes over, because it will always be crap. TCP , UDP, IP, and Ethernet were NOT designed for this application. It's only telling that they're flexible enough that you can attempt it, but you will need to fundamentally redesign the web to get quality (and reliable) game streaming.
@Alex.Martossy. Either we need special WAN connections provided by ISPs used only for gaming. Or We need broadband ISPs provide gaming internet service that prioritizes gaming traffic. The developers can rent these dedicated lanes, but it is very expensive. Also when games become older, it is no profit in keeping them supported o dedicated servers.
I really enjoyed that explanation and it still suprises me as a gamer just how far we have come since early days of Spectrums and Amigas...even though i'm in my 50's i still chuckle when you say " handling your packets ".. the immature kid in me damn it.
For first mile installing OpenWrt and running SQM cake completely solved my bufferbloat latency issues. Using a WRT32X. Every new router should support that Linux based OS it’s amazing.
@JFK We don't understand nerd linguistics. You learned a little network coding, calm down, you're it special. Now explain your situation in plain terms and no abbreviations.
The gaming industry has a huge impact on global internet traffic. For example, content Distribution Network traffic such as large patch releases for popular video game titles (cough… COD war zone.. cough) can cause massive explosions of traffic on internet backbones worldwide. Measured in the 10s to 100s of Tb/s. Internet service providers do what they can to engineer traffic to prevent saturation and impact when this happens, but they can only do so much. When this happens it can cause significantly higher ping times to servers, and packet loss, causing issues with internet voice/video calls, download speeds, etc. With the increased popularity of some of these games due to COVID it has happened more regularly than you might expect.
It still never ceases to amaze me sometimes when watching Rich on camera to remember this is the man who wrote for many of the videogame magazines I grew up reading in the 90s.
Secret to good net code. Design game logic with online play in mind. Add a start up to every action. Use a predictive algo When prediction doesn't match, switch to actual. Keep gameplay smooth by part skipping the start up and syncing.
Port forwarding is a good way of making the online better. It doesn't do miracles but can help with lowering latency and jitter. Regardless of connection type
Agreed...I'm amazed how often I've gotten the "but I'm right next to the router so I have great signal" ...so...close enough to plug in?! Mind boggling for sure.
I managed to forget about GG Strive for a moment, but netcode immediately reminds me. Beta soon at least :3 And nice to see Infil's KI webguide, it's really godlike.
this was interesting. Although DF isn't known for doing small deep dives like this I feel it's always welcome when applicable knowledge is shared for overall better understanding and clarity of a common problem.
First of all with FPS games when people say lag they don't mean stutter, they mean they are 0.5 seconds behind the guy that shot you. I had 40 ping phone wired internet and now fiber wired 5 ping. In COD you better have a higher ping because the lag compensation is too strong. You get punished for having a good connection. Also VPN should be banned for online gaming servers. And someone from the north of Europe shouldn't be playing with someone from the south. But it happens all the time. I think that the best way is too play with some future 6G via a satellite server were every single player has the same ping and distance to the server.
Lag is stutter, stutter is lag, but more like short bursts of lag, or clipping. Other lag is slow lag, dropping massive frames. Stutter is losing fewer frames than lag, but still very noticable.
At least regarding fighting games, it seems like Bandai Namco is the only major player who has yet to join in on rollback netcode. This sucks even more than it usually would because they make 3 major fighting game franchises (Tekken, Soul Calibur, & Smash).
Obvious stuff, but probably needed for the new players. Old vets like me who played over a null modem serial cable in the 90s, know this stuff by heart ;-)
I remember seeing an interview about Overwatch where they did many things to make the game feel good. Such as it feels more frustrating to shoot someone and miss than to think you didn't get shot and get shot. so they made the shooter have the advantage in lagging situations. something you won't notice if your game never lags.
Also worth mentioning regarding the client as server-solution is the phenomenon called "Standby".. Halo 2 on the original Xbox suffered a lot from this as it was used for cheating. When entering a match, there was a possibility to immediately show the scoreboard in order to narrow down the player who was hosting the match. If you were that person and your Xbox was connected via a switch, then you could disconnect the network cable between the switch and the router for a short period, and the Xbox wouldn't recognize the temporary loss of network access. During this time you could move around and shoot people and the result of your actions would update on the other players machines once you plug the network cable back in. Hopefully it's not as common today, if it even exists anymore but it's an interesting thing to mention as it essentially broke the game. 🙂
A lot of lag is caused by a person's internal network i.e. another person using bandwidth causing lag spikes. This causes one's PC or console to get into a queue. Always throttle your bandwidth while playing online to prevent this. Multiplayer online game barely use any internet bandwidth at all.
Nice vid. Great Job ! It would be interresting to push a video next to this one about how devs made their way to limit cheating in multiplayer. And why certain company have stong diffculty to find cheaters and patch things. Cheers/.
Apex Legends, of Source Engine lineage, occasionally suffers from CPU overutilization on the server causing the target tickrate to fail to be met. Results in the entire lobby playing the game in slow motion (and way more Wingman shots landing than normal). They have a good blog post about it from around a week ago!
Many of the netcode videos/articles I've watched/read are about fighting games so it's quite informative to get a video catered mainly to first person shooters. Especially since 99% of the time fighting games use p2p connections
@@Keepskatin Yeah balancing several players with differing connections seems very challenging. It's a shame most fighting games can't even get a coast to coast connection to be stable whereas I have almost no issue in other genres
@@luisalbertoramirezdioses2276 I mean I didn't say anything about the quality of their servers I'm just saying they made an interesting video on a similar topic a few years back
Massive credit to whoever did the netcode for MAG, considering how much went on in that game it was surprisingly decent. On the other hand... Pour one out for Guardians of Middle Earth... It never stood a chance.
MAG has proper servers. Too many games nowadays are peer to peer. Battlefield having dedicated servers is perfect way to go and how cheap ass companies should do it. No excuse for peer to peer garbage.
The first time i was interested in Netcode was with Unreal tournament 99. Back then you played on hosted servers with crazy high pings (200-500 was common, and about ~100 in your own country) then you had to predict and aim like 2 meters away from an opponnent to hit him lol. There was no lag compensation/favor the shooter netcode like in modern FPS. Today ping doesn't make a big difference outside of peeking, shooting behind walls ETC... Otherwise I'm impressed with some rollback netcodes that were used in Peer to peer games, making them look so smooth, for instance every Monster Hunter games, that allowed Europeans to play with australians easily back then, when servers were region based.
The devs / publishers aren't going to spend money they don't have to unless the players make it known they prefer games with good netcode, and by prefer I mean only spend their money on the base game / skins if the game has good netcode.
Dedicated servers cost money, money to rent a space with servers, and air conditioning, and for a tech to work on the servers of they have issues. It cost money
Halo 3 I used to get a lot of the back to the future stuff, but back then ADSL+2 was the fastest net connection I could get in my area. Now I'm on 400mbps fibre and I've never experienced lag unless I'm playing GTA5 online some times
Don’t forget about bufferbloat as a forth issue. Most high end routers have settings to help but they are not obvious. Bufferbloat is extremely common, Overlooked and can seriously spike your ping.
Could be explained better and faster but still many don't know what it takes. I recommend recent COD video explaining networking, which actually got downvoted badly unrelated of topic(some were unhappy about the new game)
i remember the orange box from valve on xbox2, team fortress was always impossible to play in my country switzerland, on every xbox i tested, never got patched, never a statement from valve... and it was basically the reason why i buyed a 360... it had only lags all the time.
Na send this video to crapcom and Netherelm studios.... fighting games are in nothing but lag land... and plz let us filter wi fi ppl. Let wi fi ppl have the fun lagging w other wifi players. For us who pay good money for good wire connection should not have to suffer to wi fi players
@@evilmookey1067 Unfortunately, most people use wifi for gaming, because of wireless convenience. Filtering wifi players is ether too complex or would drastically limit available players for ethernet play. Wifi has come a long ways the AC wifi routers are top of the line up to 800mbps. No game requires gigabit connections. I have gotten pings as low as 40 Ms on basic N grade wifi routers, imagine an AC router❓20 Ms.
Rockstar should watch this video to know why P2P connection is not appropriate for complex games such as GTA and RDR Online. Basically, a single player with low upload speed or high latency harms all other players experience. Unacceptable that a multibillion dollar company is too cheap to pay for dedicated servers.
I remember just how terrible the 'hit box' detection was in the early Battlefield games. BF2 was abysmal, you could be in (virtual) terms about 10ft away, empty your weapons magazine, and barely make any hits...only when we got to BF4 did I feel you weren't fighting the net code as much as the player..
![Remote Streaming Face-Off! Parsec vs Pro & Gaming Services: Image Quality, Latency Tests [Sponsored]](/img/n.gif)
Genuinely one of the most interesting sponsored videos I've seen from DF. Well done.
Been on the good netcode crusade for fighting games for years, since 2013 when Killer Instinct came out and showed how great online netcode could be.
bRuH wIfI iS jUsT aS gOoD aS cAbLe, i GeT 300 mBpS dUdE
Melee with roll back is really good if you want to try that.
@@quickdrawmcgraw3567 A good 5GHz connection to a good router is plenty reliable for any gaming (where money isn't on the line anyway). The problem is people use bad hardware and/or have shitty in-home conditions for their wifi (interference from other electronics, thick walls, etc), but mostly it's that people use 2.4GHz wifi on ISP provided routers out of ignorance.
@@DeToxCommunity in short using Fiber Optic and other Non-Wireless solutions can solve the issue, 5G network needs a bit more of time to expand ( Finishing the expanding in 2022 or 2023 I guess in most countries ) and it's much better than 4G since it can even be compared to Fiber Optic or other Non-Wireless Network solutions.
But still Fiber Optic and Non-Wireless Network Solutions (maybe 5G too) can have some issues that can be caused by the ISP themselves so someone need to tell the ISP about the issue that is happening in their area to solve it or improve the reliability of the network and etc.
@@user-ic5nv8lj9d 5ghz wifi and 5G aren't the same thing. He's talking about a type of wifi and you're talking about cellular network.
This is the best gaming channel. Your fan base shows gamers want technical information that IGN and Gamespot don’t give us.
they are not only two channels on youtube. There are millions of videos regarding to educational content
Dont Or Cant*
IGN and gamespot are staffed by idiots who can talk off a written script and make boring PG13 jokes. They have no original or unique takes, and they never will. Because theyre basically empty .
This is one of the best tech videos on the channel, doesn't even look like sponsored.
One thing that games that use dedicated servers should do is have a P2P backup. Several online games from early 2000's died because servers shutdown. Some are revived by community using unnoficial servers, but a lot is just dead. With a P2P backup, you could in theory play a game that is not supported anymore by the depveloper without having to mod or hack the game.
Fighting Game Community: Rollback netcode, despite some minor drawbacks, makes it feel like playing offline!
Japanese developers: Input lag code works fine in our country so it means it should be fine everywhere else!
FGC: ...
Thing is, Delay-based netcode doesn't work fine in Japan either
@@riiyaFGC Edit.
@@ThePhantomnaut ?
Most Japanese developers have gotten the memo about rollback. The only major outlier is Bandai Namco.
Bullshit.. usf4 has better code than sfv
Nobody does a good technical video better then Rich.
This isn't very technical though :(
Ø
@@fcukugimmeausername It is for most people
See Battle(non)sense if you never seen Chris' videos on netcode and such.
than
I spent a few years developing a fast paced action shooter game engine called Bitphoria and jitter is a PITA to mitigate. The only real way to handle it is to buffer incoming packets long enough to smooth out the jitter. You can dynamically adapt the buffer size based on detected jitter variation, slowly increase/reduce the buffer delay as needed. The end result is that the player's experience is behind the actual game state even more than the network latency. Most connections only need a jitter buffer delay of ~30ms which isn't so bad at all but sometimes you need 100-200ms for people on crappy broadband that are far away from a server, and without the jitter buffering objects can't move smoothly through the world for them, speeding up and slowing down. Netcode is one of my favorite things to work on because it's such an interesting problem. It's been really awesome seeing what games have been able to pull off over on Battlenonsense's channel.
Kids are spoiled nowadays. Back in the 14.4 modem days I had to yell at my mom not to pick up the phone because I was playing command and conquer online on my Packard Bell.
MOM! IM ON THE NEEET! MOOOOOM! Damnit im gonna lose!
lmao those were the days...
ppl have gone soft
haha i hear you. Until fairly recently i still had issues even with ADSL as if the phone rang it disconnected me from the internet and that was only 3 years ago.
1200 baud modem playing some text based/ASCII graphicy galaxy conquest game on a C64 hosted BBS where you only got ONE turn a day. When someone picked up the phone it was soul crushing.
They also get screwed, most every game was server based and allowed players to host their own servers. Kids today have to put up with good connections but horrible peer networking and games with no real communities as the default.
Finding a handful of servers where you knew you were in for a fun social experience just isn't a thing anymore and having your own friends list is no replacement. It's what makes me favour singleplayer games in general in recent years.
I like to imagine Richard and the DF crew performed the background garage rock music for this video themselves in their after work band, DF With DF.
Sounds spot on👍🏿
Rock music? It's electronic gibberish music haha. The kind of stuff you make on your computer without ever touching an instrument. But yeah, that'd be funny. I honestly can't envision these people doing anything but playing video games haha. Not without laughing.
@@jonny-b4954 hahahahaha
For over a decade on console, lag compensation has gotten my player killed in video games numerous times. My connection speed had always been top notch. My theory has always been that, the cleaner your connection is; the easier it is for lagging players to conquer you. Because of lag compensation's cons.
One good case for analysis is fighting games, Rollback netcodes Vs Delay based netcodes.
There are some Japanese developers who DO use rollback, but they use terrible rollback based on their in house solution. It's so bad, that they may as well have used delay-based. GGPO is literally free and the developers of it are always willing to help you. There should be no excuse for bad netcode anymore.
Bad netcode makes me rage mode😡
You talk about Capcom
The Smash Bros. ultimate team could learn a thing or two from watching this
You mean Bandai Namco
All of Nintendo could benefit from this
Nintendos online service is laughable compared to Sony and Microsoft
Slippy for Melee is incredible and what should have been for Ultimate.
They considered, but didn't go with it bc "it'll have too much impact on gameplay"
Escape From Tarkov taught me a lot about the difficulties of programming a multiplayer game and it's netcode
One of their massive problems that they don't quite touch on in this video is Client-side authority vs Server-side authority. (EFT uses client-side, almost every other competitive FPS uses Server-side)
Look for a video by Veritas called "A theory about stutters and lag | Getting Tarkov'd"
Basically, if someone is lagging, their client is authoritative and the server accepts their lag as true, making them move unsmooth, jittery. So everyone trying to shoot you has to hit this stuttering bullshit target. Meanwhile, on your end, everything looks fine, you can come around corners and kill people and your inputs just get accepted as true by the server.
Absolute bullshit. I love Tarkov but I just don't enjoy playing it because it's completely unfair, no fight feels fair. Feels like it's always in the hands of the netcode and lag.
As a fighting game player I'm very stingy about good net code. Lol this should be a good video
I know Japanese developers were guilty of this, testing the netcode Japan only from one end to the other assuming it works. I know Arc System Works and Capcom have gotten better on that, testing the connection from Japan to places outside of Japan lol.
Yeah I wish DBFZ had rollback netcode.
@@suhas-qw4nu same here
@@denisn8336 But they will have to rebuilt the game just like NRS did with MKX
I still remember my first time playing any game online: _Star Wars Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight._ One of its major flaws (over time) was that _everything_ involving your character was executed on your end with no anti-cheat protections, so anyone who knew how to mod game files could easily create unfair advantages -- such as making the basic stormtrooper rifle fire Concussion Rifle primary bullets while also negating splash damage to themselves (remember, all damage is calculated with the _target's_ clientside data).
Very happy you guys linked Infilament's article. His whole website is just full of knowledge about Killer Instinct but his side articles about bugs & netcode are so good.
Great video! Would be nice to have a Part 2 comparing the different types of netcodes such as Lockstep/Delay-Based and Predictive/Rollback, etc.
Just to let you know Rich, you are the best in Digital Foundry!
I love Battle Nonsense. Chris kills it. Awesome for shouting him out.
Online gaming has come a long way since the days of 14.4 baud modems. I remember playing Everquest back during around the time of it's launch and boy was there lag... constant crashes while zoning from 1 zone to another, sitting and waiting sometimes a min for the character/NPC locations updated to your client, etc. Things are night and day now but I still see some of the same issues in modern online games.
Yep. Those days of playing Diablo/Unreal Tournament were quite interesting as well other games at the time. But it was these two that I poured tons of time into. Lag got me destroyed a lot, which was frustrating. But online gaming was new and it was just cool to play with other people over the internet. It was a great time.
I love how the FGC just rolled up because the word "Netcode"
LMAO
@@denisn8336 We've been through alot that's for sure lol
Sup
It's on sight XD
But really, it's one of the big problems many fighting games have had for over a decade.
Fgc all day
There is a *realy* interesting GDC Talk about the Netcode in Overwatch. It's super fascinating to what lengths they go to provide a smooth multiplayer experience. It's called "Overwatch Gameplay Architecture and Netcode"
Playing in Hawaii, we generally have higher pings but a lot of games are still decent. Last I played overwatch though, holy fuck is that game smooth! Where as with cod, it actually feels worse now that they have skill base matchmaking instead of connection based
It's crazy cause i have been wanting to learn more about net codes and developing online gaming
Please inject these videos into my veins. Y’all get taken care of, and we get content that’s info heavy and informative. Love it, thanks!
The closer you live to a server, the less lag, you have, it's not fair. Servers are expensive to keep, so developers and publishers use minimum servers.
Battle(non)sense is a great channel that answers these questions and more.
As a computer engineer, online gaming is a true engineering accomplishment, considering what they had to work with. It's literally making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. in another note, this is also why I firmly believe that game streaming will never be a thing that takes over, because it will always be crap. TCP , UDP, IP, and Ethernet were NOT designed for this application. It's only telling that they're flexible enough that you can attempt it, but you will need to fundamentally redesign the web to get quality (and reliable) game streaming.
@Alex.Martossy. Either we need special WAN connections provided by ISPs used only for gaming. Or We need broadband ISPs provide gaming internet service that prioritizes gaming traffic. The developers can rent these dedicated lanes, but it is very expensive. Also when games become older, it is no profit in keeping them supported o dedicated servers.
Smash Ultimate: I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear any of this.
Now this is news that can help all gamers regardless of gaming platform.
The Intro has never end in this Video. The Content is greate but the Video has a never ending intro.
I really enjoyed that explanation and it still suprises me as a gamer just how far we have come since early days of Spectrums and Amigas...even though i'm in my 50's i still chuckle when you say " handling your packets ".. the immature kid in me damn it.
This is the way
As someone who doesn't play multiplayer thank u for explaining dis now i know wut my nephew and brother in law goes through
Are you guys gonna do a video on more fps boost games?
Nothing special about it. It's only a fps boost. Not increased graphics or resolution
ZZZZZzzzzzzz.....
'only fps'? Lol. Performance is more important than anything else.
@@jerryberry3501 fps decides who wins and who loses. Nothing is more important than fps in competitive gaming like Cod💪🏾
@@Keepskatin I mean it's not a big thing to get covered by digital foundry. Just a simple fps boost
For first mile installing OpenWrt and running SQM cake completely solved my bufferbloat latency issues. Using a WRT32X. Every new router should support that Linux based OS it’s amazing.
@JFK
We don't understand nerd linguistics.
You learned a little network coding, calm down, you're it special. Now explain your situation in plain terms and no abbreviations.
@@Keepskatin Huh? you must have replied to the wrong person lol
Awesome! Studying for Comptia A+ and Networking is my most difficult subject! thanks
This is some good content. Would love to see more like this
The gaming industry has a huge impact on global internet traffic. For example, content Distribution Network traffic such as large patch releases for popular video game titles (cough… COD war zone.. cough) can cause massive explosions of traffic on internet backbones worldwide. Measured in the 10s to 100s of Tb/s. Internet service providers do what they can to engineer traffic to prevent saturation and impact when this happens, but they can only do so much. When this happens it can cause significantly higher ping times to servers, and packet loss, causing issues with internet voice/video calls, download speeds, etc. With the increased popularity of some of these games due to COVID it has happened more regularly than you might expect.
I can feel the stares from whoever worked on the netcode for battlefield 3 & 4
When I play rogue company on switch it dont really lag, but battlefield 4 on steam my god is it rough...
This is the kind of content I enjoy most!
Great content! Keep up the great work
its funny how so many people complain about bad servers and lazy devs, but most people have no idea how complex netcode is.
It still never ceases to amaze me sometimes when watching Rich on camera to remember this is the man who wrote for many of the videogame magazines I grew up reading in the 90s.
Really ? Which magazines ?
@@Zeegoku1007 Dreamcast Magazine is one of them
Great video.
Thanks for breaking it down to an understandable level. Take care. Family first.
Love the shoutout to Battle Nonsense!
Well like my Internet provider said “we cant be driving sports cars all the time, sometimes the system will put you in a station wagon.
Lol. XD
No.
Audi would like to have a word with you about the 2022 Audi RS6, after which you will delete this comment ..
@@benn93z28 You are fake news
@@benn93z28 My bank account does not allow Audi to have a word with me, neither does my local gasstation.
There are some nice Sporty Wagons though :)
This episode was not in 4K. Budget cuts?
Secret to good net code.
Design game logic with online play in mind.
Add a start up to every action.
Use a predictive algo
When prediction doesn't match, switch to actual.
Keep gameplay smooth by part skipping the start up and syncing.
Love the CGA colour palette in your illustrations.
"bind j say hehe lol :D :D"
Line 160 in that code at 6:57
This is a very important bind for CS
Port forwarding is a good way of making the online better. It doesn't do miracles but can help with lowering latency and jitter. Regardless of connection type
it still boggles my mind how ppl still argue wit me about goin wired. they insist their wifi is fast n theres no problems.
Agreed...I'm amazed how often I've gotten the "but I'm right next to the router so I have great signal" ...so...close enough to plug in?! Mind boggling for sure.
I managed to forget about GG Strive for a moment, but netcode immediately reminds me. Beta soon at least :3
And nice to see Infil's KI webguide, it's really godlike.
Amazing Video, really like it 🖤
this was interesting. Although DF isn't known for doing small deep dives like this I feel it's always welcome when applicable knowledge is shared for overall better understanding and clarity of a common problem.
Nice job! I love you way you explain things.
He' s the best at Digital Foundry. Keep it up Richard
Me, dying to see the PC eval of RE8:
Digital Foundry: Hey, wanna learn about netcode?
x2
Takes time my man
First of all with FPS games when people say lag they don't mean stutter, they mean they are 0.5 seconds behind the guy that shot you.
I had 40 ping phone wired internet and now fiber wired 5 ping. In COD you better have a higher ping because the lag compensation is too strong. You get punished for having a good connection. Also VPN should be banned for online gaming servers.
And someone from the north of Europe shouldn't be playing with someone from the south. But it happens all the time.
I think that the best way is too play with some future 6G via a satellite server were every single player has the same ping and distance to the server.
Lag is stutter, stutter is lag, but more like short bursts of lag, or clipping. Other lag is slow lag, dropping massive frames. Stutter is losing fewer frames than lag, but still very noticable.
Ah nice to see a recommendation for Battle (non) sense! He really has the best video on "networks for gamers" I've seen.
Highly recommended
Nice explanation!
Wildcard, taking notes?
suprised they didnt manage to shoe-horn in some reference to ray tracing 😂
Background music:
Bjørn Lynne - Astronavigator
💖🐱👤💖
At least regarding fighting games, it seems like Bandai Namco is the only major player who has yet to join in on rollback netcode. This sucks even more than it usually would because they make 3 major fighting game franchises (Tekken, Soul Calibur, & Smash).
Brilliant video Rich!
Obvious stuff, but probably needed for the new players. Old vets like me who played over a null modem serial cable in the 90s, know this stuff by heart ;-)
Multiplayer gets so taken for granted, when you actually break it down its mind boggling that it works at all!!
It's mind blowing online multiplayer even works at all!
I remember seeing an interview about Overwatch where they did many things to make the game feel good. Such as it feels more frustrating to shoot someone and miss than to think you didn't get shot and get shot. so they made the shooter have the advantage in lagging situations. something you won't notice if your game never lags.
Also worth mentioning regarding the client as server-solution is the phenomenon called "Standby".. Halo 2 on the original Xbox suffered a lot from this as it was used for cheating. When entering a match, there was a possibility to immediately show the scoreboard in order to narrow down the player who was hosting the match. If you were that person and your Xbox was connected via a switch, then you could disconnect the network cable between the switch and the router for a short period, and the Xbox wouldn't recognize the temporary loss of network access. During this time you could move around and shoot people and the result of your actions would update on the other players machines once you plug the network cable back in. Hopefully it's not as common today, if it even exists anymore but it's an interesting thing to mention as it essentially broke the game. 🙂
A lot of lag is caused by a person's internal network i.e. another person using bandwidth causing lag spikes. This causes one's PC or console to get into a queue. Always throttle your bandwidth while playing online to prevent this. Multiplayer online game barely use any internet bandwidth at all.
Always throttle? What do you mean by this?
@@flyinhawaiiangc7310 Use QoS services within the router. The Netduma/DumaOS router has this function.
@@philaufan6 I still don’t fully understand. I guess I’ll look into this some more
Nice vid. Great Job !
It would be interresting to push a video next to this one about how devs made their way to limit cheating in multiplayer. And why certain company have stong diffculty to find cheaters and patch things.
Cheers/.
Optimizing windows 10 through all the layers gives the best benefits of steady frames and steady connections.
(When there is no external issues)
Apex Legends, of Source Engine lineage, occasionally suffers from CPU overutilization on the server causing the target tickrate to fail to be met. Results in the entire lobby playing the game in slow motion (and way more Wingman shots landing than normal). They have a good blog post about it from around a week ago!
Many of the netcode videos/articles I've watched/read are about fighting games so it's quite informative to get a video catered mainly to first person shooters. Especially since 99% of the time fighting games use p2p connections
Exactly, fighting games are usually only 2 players. FPS games are up to 20 players, the most demanding netcode and bandwidth.
MAKe Cod Great Again💪🏾☝🏾
@@Keepskatin Yeah balancing several players with differing connections seems very challenging. It's a shame most fighting games can't even get a coast to coast connection to be stable whereas I have almost no issue in other genres
Great and thorough video!
This was very interesting, didn't realize I didn't know this stuff.
I love Richard talking about the DoD like he's not in an entirely different country lol.
host on COD, you feel like a gawd
So this is why phantom backstab from 25m away is a thing
It’s amazing that things work as well as they do
I were hoping you would talk about GGPO. In an separate video maybe? :)
Keep on keeping on you guys 👍
Mario Maker 2 lags constantly but nothing makes me lose it more than when the game doesn't register my inputs (though that rarely happens)
The overwatch devs did a couple of good videos on how they handle their netcode back when that released
But there's no new servers also ow has a terrible connection around the world most of their players have high ping
@@luisalbertoramirezdioses2276 I mean I didn't say anything about the quality of their servers I'm just saying they made an interesting video on a similar topic a few years back
Massive credit to whoever did the netcode for MAG, considering how much went on in that game it was surprisingly decent.
On the other hand... Pour one out for Guardians of Middle Earth... It never stood a chance.
MAG has proper servers.
Too many games nowadays are peer to peer.
Battlefield having dedicated servers is perfect way to go and how cheap ass companies should do it.
No excuse for peer to peer garbage.
The first time i was interested in Netcode was with Unreal tournament 99. Back then you played on hosted servers with crazy high pings (200-500 was common, and about ~100 in your own country) then you had to predict and aim like 2 meters away from an opponnent to hit him lol. There was no lag compensation/favor the shooter netcode like in modern FPS. Today ping doesn't make a big difference outside of peeking, shooting behind walls ETC... Otherwise I'm impressed with some rollback netcodes that were used in Peer to peer games, making them look so smooth, for instance every Monster Hunter games, that allowed Europeans to play with australians easily back then, when servers were region based.
Great video. Awesome to link Battlenonsense too
The devs / publishers aren't going to spend money they don't have to unless the players make it known they prefer games with good netcode, and by prefer I mean only spend their money on the base game / skins if the game has good netcode.
Dedicated servers cost money, money to rent a space with servers, and air conditioning, and for a tech to work on the servers of they have issues. It cost money
Interesting. Thanks Rich 💕
Love the early weekend drops
I read the title as "Onlline gambling" and i was like WTF are they making a video about??
Halo 3 I used to get a lot of the back to the future stuff, but back then ADSL+2 was the fastest net connection I could get in my area. Now I'm on 400mbps fibre and I've never experienced lag unless I'm playing GTA5 online some times
Don’t forget about bufferbloat as a forth issue. Most high end routers have settings to help but they are not obvious. Bufferbloat is extremely common, Overlooked and can seriously spike your ping.
I thought UDP didn't get affected by bufferbloat?
Could be explained better and faster but still many don't know what it takes. I recommend recent COD video explaining networking, which actually got downvoted badly unrelated of topic(some were unhappy about the new game)
i remember the orange box from valve on xbox2, team fortress was always impossible to play in my country switzerland, on every xbox i tested, never got patched, never a statement from valve... and it was basically the reason why i buyed a 360... it had only lags all the time.
Better send this video to dice before bf6 comes out asap
lol u think they care ? :d haha
No, Call of Duty needs to learn from this video
@JEDISAIYANPL Not on console, its 30hz
Na send this video to crapcom and Netherelm studios.... fighting games are in nothing but lag land... and plz let us filter wi fi ppl. Let wi fi ppl have the fun lagging w other wifi players. For us who pay good money for good wire connection should not have to suffer to wi fi players
@@evilmookey1067 Unfortunately, most people use wifi for gaming, because of wireless convenience. Filtering wifi players is ether too complex or would drastically limit available players for ethernet play.
Wifi has come a long ways the AC wifi routers are top of the line up to 800mbps. No game requires gigabit connections. I have gotten pings as low as 40 Ms on basic N grade wifi routers, imagine an AC router❓20 Ms.
I would to see more content like this. A sort of how this works type of thing.
I usually have better connections (stability) to california, then i do to sydney, and i live just outside sydney... :D Internet is weird man.
It's weird in Oz hey :) . Some days TH-cam won't even work here lol.
Rockstar should watch this video to know why P2P connection is not appropriate for complex games such as GTA and RDR Online. Basically, a single player with low upload speed or high latency harms all other players experience.
Unacceptable that a multibillion dollar company is too cheap to pay for dedicated servers.
P2P also makes it easier to mod other gamers in the host lobby.
@@Keepskatin And I believe it also makes cheating easier.
I remember just how terrible the 'hit box' detection was in the early Battlefield games. BF2 was abysmal, you could be in (virtual) terms about 10ft away, empty your weapons magazine, and barely make any hits...only when we got to BF4 did I feel you weren't fighting the net code as much as the player..