Mercedes M156: The Best AMG Engine?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มี.ค. 2022
- Some engine designs are more typical for certain brands than others and there is hardly one more connected to a V8 than Mercedes-Benz. Going more specific, the M156 AMG engine would most definitely be on the top of the list.
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In my opinion, this is the last great AMG engine in terms of SOUND. While the biturbo 4.0 make great power and have those turbo noises, nothing compares to a big displacement NA for me.
"there's no replacement for displacement"
Man but I gotta admit that the 5.5 biturbo m157 is a monster
100% !!
Yeah I agree the 4.0 is just too quiet, I’m sure it would sound good but it just sounds “muffled” and the true exhaust note is super hard to hear. Probably a combination of the turbos with a restricting exhaust, I wanna hear one with a straight pipe.
@@queefyg490 I have mine straight piped. Helps a bunch. But it’s nothing compared to a M156. My brother has 09 E63. And that thing is crazy loud
Current caretaker of an SLS, C63 507, and ML63. All of them are driven hard but well taken care of. Had the ML63 now from 45k miles to 100k miles, and have had no major issues, just preventative maintenance and
MB specialist round our way said pretty much the same ,he gets a steady stream in of camshaft issues with poor maintenance/infrequent oil changes ,bottom line is they need looked after…👍
@@mudskipper0075 Fixing this on my 507 now, strangely enough it's on my exhaust, not intake. Intake is more common due it being on the top side, remember, oil travels down. For anyone dealing with this be prepared to spend. To fix this right it's not cheap, that said rebuilding the adjusters will save some $$$ and fix the real problem long term.
@@list3ningcalmly796 Have to ask what oil weight do you use, and have you owned the car since new? Very unusual to have the exhaust cams show wear unless there was a factory defect or something. And yes once adjusters become an issue rebuilding them with 63Motorsports reinforced plates is the way to go! Thankfully haven't had to do that yet
Any shot at getting an R63?
@@NitrousFox They come up for sale every now and then as rare as they are. I don't like how they look so I wouldn't buy one myself honestly
It's predecessor, the M113K V8 is bulletproof, made similar power & actually more torque from the factory.
The 7G let it down badly. Okay gearbox for Autobahn and city driving, but definitely not for sporty driving
@@rekaarnes it was the 5G in the CLS 55 AMG but not sure what gearbox they used with that engine in other Mercs. TBH what auto box from that era was good for sporty driving lol.
@@phil955i 5G, you are right - got it confused. And yeah true, Autos used to be real slush boxes lmao
Absolutely! I have the M133.942 4.2l model. Done 200k miles and still sounds like Hans Zimmer on roids.
@@rekaarnes its not bad after a TCU remap
Back in 2008 I bought a 1999 e55 AMG of my mechanic for 6000€ , it had an aftermarket exhaust and only 50k miles on it. Sold it 2 years later as I was moving to Asia .. absolutely loved that car . Never gave me any trouble, wish I still had it today 😉
I have a 1998 E55 and have owned it for 6 years. It has the M113 engine which is very bullet proof 💪
@@Guns_Turbos_Action Nice! 👌 u hardly see them on the road anymore , where I live any way.. enjoy it 👍
I just noticed your profile pic!! It looks great, mine was silver and when I got it the previous owner had taken off the e55 and AMG badge . The exhaust looked standard at the back but was modified
You’d get decent money for it now I’d say , but hold on to her if u can 😉
@@KingBanter Thanks 👍🙂
Yes they are getting rarer due to a lot of them rusting away and being broken for parts. Mine is one of the very early rust free cars, and they are (finally) beginning to increase in value, all over the globe it seems. So I intend to keep it for a while.
The exhaust mod yours had may have been similar to what mine (and many others) have. It's a section that replaces the rear cats and resonator and makes the car much more lively, and sounds more aggressive under heavy throttle 😁
They are a really nice overall product from AMG. It's not a one trick pony drag racer, and handling and braking are also very impressive, even by todays fast car standards.
☺👍
Saw a w210 e55 the other day while driving my CLS55 lol
Love the M156 in my P30 C 63. That engine is a masterpiece and truly a pleasure to drive and hear.
M100 was limited by compression and cam timing. The bottom end could probably handle 2000+ hp with all that iron and forged everything ( except the pistons ). It begged to be boosted.....could you imagine twin turbos and proper cam timing on a M100?
Every time you come out with another video, I want another car
Man i love watching your videos, keep up the good work, love from Jamaica
I absolutely love my 2010 E63. Very well rounded car
Really informative. No idea these things had these problems. Would like to see one of these vids on the 4L biturbo amg v8!
If I had too much money and time it would be fun to address the inherent issues of one of these when close to 100K. ARP head studs, custom hardwelded Webb Racing Cams, and the like.
Current owner of a 2009 C 63 AMG and I can agree with a lot of this stuff I would just say that the two major downfalls of the engine are the wearing camshaft and head bolts other than that the engine is very bulletproof also the factory injectors gave people butterflies 😂
What yr did the head bolt issue get addressed
How about at 200k miles
Thanks for the very informative video.
Your expertise made the video engaging.
Another great video as always man
bought a 2011 e63 a few months ago and it is so nice to drive, i'm ready for the bucket replacement if it needs it but with only 60k miles and lots of service records i hope i don't have to do it. what an amazing engine with an amazing sound, second only to the m120
Definitely great work! A video about the new M177 and all its variants like Stage 2 and the GT-Black Series Version would be great! 😁
Great vid cheers.
My M156 inside my 2009 CLS 63 AMG.....95,000miles today still rocks.....Oil change every 6k miles with out fail
I’ve been watching your videos for around 4 years (give or take) and I’ve never been disabled by your work.
I guess you wanted to say "not disappointed"
@@VisioRacer I want to say yes but I love the confusion. I have a bad habit of using swipe to text on iPhone and never proofreading 😎
@@VisioRacer The more I read my comment the funnier it becomes 🤣🤣🤣
As a current owner of a C63 507, this is truly incredible to know
I've owned a C63 since 2016. Have done most of the work myself on it, and it's a great engine if you keep up with it.
Bought a clk black series a month ago and so far I love the motor!
1:45 -1:52 THAT SOUND! 👌👌👌
Oh snap! That’s my car at the 10:32 mark! Thanks for sharing
I'm fascinated by this engine and other similar lexus or v8 foreign engines. I get that if you leave things as is, the m113k is probably easiest to live with. But there is just something about N/A V8 that seems magical. I would much rather buy a m156 and mod the hell out of it as a personal project. To me, it seems to have more potential as it has the basic features for a great performance engine. It just needs the right amount of work and money thrown at it to take it over the top.
hope your wallet is deep if you want to own m156 lol
1uz with a 3uz head and upgraded head studs. Bulletproof turbo motor right there. 800hp before you need to spend any more money on it.
Nailed it, the new IS500 is the only new car I'd buy today (Period, pun intended)
@@lordjaashin What is deep?
I considered a 2012 C63 with 70k miles, I bought a 2006 CLS55 with 55k miles instead for about $10k less. I’m glad I did
The best engine ever built by mercedes was the M120! v12. It can't and won't be repeated again. That's why Horatio Pagani chose it for his zondas.
Great video, but it should be noted that the W211 E63 came with 507 HP right out of the factory. The C63 was detuned which is why you can get 50+ HP power gains with a simple tune.
I drove the c63 AMG 6.3. It is a really special engine, and although I didnt drive the 4.0 yet, I believe I won't find it as good as the 6.2
my favourite amg engine, i also like all v12 amg s!
please make a video of my runner up, the m113!
thank you!
The Headbolt and lifter issue was resolved through a lawsuit. I had one and got a service advisor to do the retrofit without a failure. The thing is bullet proof and a torque monster.
According to one of the AMG mechanics whose signature is featured on the engines, aside from specially produced series race engines like the SLS motor the mechanics aren't even told which chassis the engines they assemble will be going into, whether a C, E, S or ML and all are built to the same specification in bench form for about 540PS, then are detuned with ancillaries and ECU mapping for their particular chassis installation. So this is the reason behind this motor being so remarkably tuneable, at least when you buy the entry level C-class version of C63 which has about 460PS imposed by the ECU mapping due to the light chassis and safety reasons. Before that motor goes in it has about 540PS. The output figures for the various chassis M156 installations are, in fact chassis limitations and for the C-class it's 460PS and for the E-class 510PS. Hence these are the vanilla ratings for those chassis although there's no particular reason an ML or S63 wouldn't have the full 540PS minus airboxes and ancillaries so probably in the region of 525PS from factory.
Obviously the American 507 series C63 (507 SAE horsepower, 510PS or metric horsepower), is simply a marketing exercise of stripes, scoops and a wide body chassis reinforcement with an E-class tune applied to the C-class chassis. When being serviced at the dealer the ECU probably reads as an E63 chipset rather than a C63 one so it isn't accidentally reverted to vanilla performance in a flash update. I don't think a dealer would be legally able to simply install an E63 tune to a vanilla C63 for safety and licensing reasons but nothing physically prevents this.
Having driven a lot of M156 C63 and E63 on the freeway doing work for the dealers I can say the 507 version I drove one time was the only AMG which genuinely scared me with its instability at high speed when suddenly accelerating flat out, the chassis twist is noticeable and sends you across the lanes, nothing you can do about that. An E63 is not, in any way noticeably slower but about a hundred times more stable at high speeds if you get rough with it, far more forgiving. When I was driving vanilla C63 cars around I did yearn for a bunch more horsepower, it's like an addiction, first thought is upgrading from 460PS to something like 520PS but after driving a 507-series there is no question the 460PS is really just about as much as the C-class can handle in that model run and now would far prefer an E63 if I wind up getting one for myself. I still want the power, but the smaller chassis is seriously not good for it.
And that's how the myth of the incredibly tuneable M156 was created. On a vanilla C63 you just undo the detuning with a E-class tune and it's an instant 40-50hp (depending if you count using SAE or metric). The E-class will not give you a power increase like that, in fact nothing but a vanilla C63 will. As mentioned best you'll get is another 13hp roughly from an E63 with mapping and AFAIK the S63 and ML is already maxed out from factory.
Obviously add any mechanical options changing factory parts and it's a whole different story, although that's where the real expense starts. This is mainly an American phenomenon, what they do in Europe is just take their recently purchased AMG to Brabus for a refit and that'll typically just add another 150hp when you get it back with some badging changes and re-stitched leather.
Plenty of us here running 620whp or more on stock forges rods, supercharged. In fact, been running supercharged for ages now with no drawbacks reliability wise over the stock car. Most of what you’ve described is wear and tear I’d say, and camshafts are a small price to pay on a high performance motor. What do you all want, Toyota Aygo resilience at 500+hp 😂
Rocker cover leaks can happen due to plastic covers. Pre-2009 used a magnesium composite instead which was more robust, but naturally plastic is cheaper so that’s the way they went.
I’d say the biggest issue to look out for on one of these is a careful owner. One that hasn’t stood doing burnouts would be a fine choice to start with. Good luck!
As a owner of a CLS63, i would like to hear more about your setup for 620whp. What supercharger and other changes?
@@Miksutii You can either go for a Weistec or ESS charger. Weistec offer 2.3L which you can max out for 620whp or, you can opt for the bigger 3.0L which will take that in its stride, go beyond. ESS also uses the same 3.0L Whipple but a larger pulley, less boost. All systems are capable of blowing your 7G or MCT7 past 620whp so, for a reliable road setup, consider this as a safe limit. You can go beyond, just build the trans, and at around 700whp you’ll probably be looking at upgrading some internal components. The safe setup is definitely ESS, which has better cooling and lower IATs pound for pound of boost. Aside from the charger, you’ll need long tube headers and a tune…that’s it, honestly!
Another thing to consider is a larger oil cooler but it’s not necessary.
Most honest appraisal of it is that it’s fun, a lot of fun BUT, you need a lot of road. I think it’s fair to say most modern performance cars 0-80mph aren’t that distant where traction, driver, chassis, road and weather is concerned, but thereafter you’re heading into space. You’ll push far fancier cars out of the way with a relentless torque wave and your face will fall off. Not a conversion for the feint hearted, and it’s expensive, so consider how long you’ll keep the car.
Feel free to ask questions over on Insta @stephens.jason
Please do a video on the cp2 or cp3 engine from Yamaha❤️ long time fan here
always like to see a clip from romans, my local supercar dealer!
I love the M156 in my 2008 CL63 AMG. The sound is unbeatable and the performance was legendary at the time. I believe all of the M156 engines except for those on their larger vehicles, like S and CL classes, were detuned from the factory. Every M156 is capable of the 518hp without the factory restrictions.
All the way up to 530 to 540 with a tune and near 600HP with a tune and a full exhaust system.
@@dennisrobinson8008 tell me more i have a e63 with 525ps (europe) and i wanne tune it.. what is a good exaust setup?
Without headers
@@vdgggame Headers are were most of the gain are at! If you look at the log style manifolds, you will see it forces exhaust flow thru a single tubing smaller than the primary on a header. Headers are worth 30-50HP on these cars! Cat back exhaust might be 5HP, maybe 8HP, but not much more because the restriction is in the manifolds. The titanium IPE catback exhaust shaves around 40LB's off the car, gives a nice sound and around a 5HP gain in power. We all look for ways to shave weight off these cars.
Regardless of what the m113 to m156 haters think this engine is an absolute gem and there is nothing like driving a m156 equipped Mercedes period...
An absoulute Masterpiece...
Screw the reliability
Its not a Weak or boring Toyota supermarket getter.
Ive owned an E55 Amg loved it However the upgraded Racing AMG engine is euphoric
Please do an episode on the BMW M57 engine!
Nice could you do something on the more common om276 V6?
This engine sounds great but the greatest all round is clearly the M113k (especially the version they put in the SLR's) for an overall power and reliability standpoint then the biturbo 4.0 for overall power potential then the biturbo v12's just because they are a turbo v12 FFS.
I can’t believe they don’t use head studs. Any engine I build I switch over to head studs. Peace of mind I guess
Id rather blow a head gasket than crack the threads in my block lol
To me, the M119 V8 was MB's last proper V8. It didn't have too many defects and it was strong as dirt. Sauber liked them and won LeMans.
The M156 is an engine that was intentionally designed with enough breaking points to keep the service departments busy. How can a company that has been around for 100+ years not know how to put together a supremely reliable and defect free product?
This is definitely not an "unreliable" engine. Yes it has its factory flaws but I've owned 5 of them over the last 10 years in different cars and none have given me serious issues. One of my M156s right now has 103k miles on it, bought it with 45k. All I've done are oil changes every 4-5k miles, headbolts were taken care of by previous owner. That being said, the M119 is also fantastic and I would love to own one some day, and I you're absolutely right with regard to its reliability.
planned obsolescence
@@SamAbraham 100k miles isnt even a third of the miles required for bragging about reliability.
@@SamAbraham the fact that the head bolts had to be changed on a specialty MB product is an indictment against the company. With all the access and skill that MB has, it's totally unacceptable.
How about this.......the GM LS/LT 6.2 L equals or.exceeds the power of an M156 without all the ish ( except MDS system which is easy to replace ). I know it may be a bad comparison but I expect better from those who literally invented the ICE game.
100,000 on a high performance engine is not bad at all. Think about how many Ferraris or Lamborghinis have those kinds of numbers. The fact that they packed so much performance (for the day. remember this engine is about 15 years old) into an engine that was relatively reliable is very impressive! That’s like saying the engines in top fuel dragsters are garbage because they have to rebuild them every run. You don’t buy these great vehicles for the reliability. If that’s what you want then there’s plenty of others that focus on that. Mercedes is about innovation and testing limits and technology. With that tends to come reliably problems. When this engine came out it was the most powerful NA V8 on the market. I think most of the people got it for that reason, not because they were worried about repairs.
I really like big NA/Supercharged V8s, but hypothetically if I was offered an AMG with this engine for absolutely free I'd probably decline just because of the design of those cars. I'm cursed to love my '03 S500's design and straight pipe sound. Before I bought her I would regularly check local car sites for new offers, but I don't feel the need anymore. I wish every car lover the same
Recently got a CLK63... love this engine but agree on the faults, ridiculous really!
how about a retro look back to the M113K motor? It was interesting to find out that intake cams and bucket are considered "consumable items" for the M156?!! great information.
hah no, people just get lazy on oil changes. i use liquimoly 5w-40 on mine every 3k miles, and wait till the engine warms completely, then drive it like i stole it. 20k miles in one year, 0 problems
@@LightlessAMG I agree, the motors are just less tolerant of extended service intervals and poor driving practices. Treat them right and they should be good 👍
I own a w204 c63 and its my first car i got it when i was 16, im 20 now and ive had no issues with the car at all, i think the m156 is the best amg engine ever made, my car has 80k miles on it and i still dsrespect mustangs and comaros on the street lol
Thanks
Hey Visio! Please talk about Mercedes M275 next time.
Definitely beasts
The M159 is just a ridiculous engine. What a beast.
Video about the origins-history of 2T expansion chamber exhausts?
Talk about the old big blocks mopar chevy ford buick etc
High price to pay for that wild noise they make. Ls horsepower at only 5 times the price. Still the noise is magic
Coming from an European - it's not like LS engines sound bad.
@@BlitzkriegRap true but my head turns when the germans bark lol
@@mikehotchkiss8975 woof woof
@@fidelcatsro6948 right?!
This is the best engine ever made and best sound ever created.
Make a video about m256 engine. The new hype engine from 53 AMGs
I owned a m113k for 5 years and now i have a 212 m156 both great engines but different..
M156 is sharper
M113k is a torque monster
If both are stock then has the m156 more drive fun with the mct transmission in my opinion..
U should do a poll to have the biturbo v8 or the biturbo v12 or the biturbo v12 brabus 900
Crane cams A.R.E. Head bolts new cam tensioner no more problems!😁 Been great 2009 cl 63 amg love it! 75k miles 😎
Try to talk about the Toyota UR series
Looking for a new car, thinking e63. I’m going for the 5.t biturbo but thus video does make me think… c63 6.2!
M113k is the best one they have ever made
Hearing one of these with long tubes is magical. Every bit as amazing if not more than what us Americans offer.
Just bought 2010 CL 63
AMG 35k miles, nervous about maintenance
Only thing better than a high revving DOHC V8 is a high revving DOHC V10. The sounds those F1 cars used to make was just the best.
6:31 , 9:15 , 9:52 , 10:36 the sounds of AMG monster V8
Mine is seeping at the block to bed plate seam... couldn't have just been the upper oil pan, no...
The 4.0 Biturbo is my favorite
No
@@sursomsatan1225 lol
Do a M113k next
might as well do the whole m113 line up
M113K is better overall.. simple design single overhead cam.. 5.4 stroker, low comp boosted monster.. from factory quite tame but open them up and they walk modern AMGs in the 1/4 mile .. rebuilding mine now from the bottom up!
German gorgeous chassis of BMW and Mercedes could use the 6.4L HEMI Hell cat engine , especially on the 7 series and S clasd
I'm going to assume at 9:50, this was being done on a dyno. No way would someone be doing 300kph with the sound of the exhaust like that (sounds like its in a garage) oh yeah, and having the bonnet alert active.
Obviously is, no need to assume, reaching 300 quickly due to no wind resistance
Anyone else notice the eclipse at 10:40 😂
I own a w204 C63 I’ve own the car for 3 years and I’ve put around 10k into it
Also the CL63 had the M156
Yeah, a C63 T-Modell, E63 T-Modell and SL63, too
now do the m155 pls
How it's durability compares to American v8s?
Better overall. However it has such a high level of technology that little things will go wrong and need to be replaced or repaired. Physically, it's a phenomenal piece of machinery. But when it comes to sensors and computers, that is where you might have problems
@@benjaminturpin2749 given the issues listed in the video, in addition to what you just said, your statement makes no sense. As far as V8s are concerned you won't find a more reliable stock production engine (not full system) than an old SBC Chevy, an LS before the introduction of the utterly asinine cylinder deactivation, a Hyundai 5.0 tau (post 2011-13) or a Lexus. Unless you're exorbitantly rich and can afford something truly exotic.
you can buy plenty of yankee v8s for the same price
@@3xeplodng_3agle_studios the M113k (the predicesor to M156) is super reliable and makes quite a lot of power and torque
The last proper v8 amg engine
9:17 airbag light on, annoying?
Take it from an American, no one here is laughing at that engine. We're too busy drooling.
But Scotty Kilmer said: "It's an endless money pit." Should I buy?
If he had his way you'd be buying a 30 year old Toyota Celica 😉 I stopped watching that cretin a long time ago. If you're going to buy a Merc V8 get one with the bulletproof M113 or M113K engine & without air suspension. My 2006 CLS500 has been no more expensive to maintain over the last 5 years than the previous Volvo I had. Fuel consumption isn't bad for a 5 litre V8 either.
they are!! buy a plot of land instead for the price!
👍
Service your own engines if you love driving.. or be really rich :)
true because theyre endless money pits
5.5 113 all day long!!!!
Yep 👍
I wanna swap mine for a k motor
M157 is the best AMG engine
LMAO no its not. M113k, 4.0 biturbo or 6.0 v12 biturbo are clearly the best. You can have your bent rods though.
I have a cls550 with an amg package and lorinser body kit…….for only 400hp 333cu in natural aspiration engine it is a beast,,,,, I call it my 4 door nazi vette…. I get more compliments on it than I do my CTS-v(2)…….I honestly think it drives and handles way better than the cts-v……feels more planted
Sounds like a gt350r!
First he said seven thousand rpm, then he said 4K rpm, then he said 8 grand rpm; my brain is so tired. 😢
the most reliable goes to the m113k by far, most reliable amg engine ever made.
When Germans make LS engine it end very well!
Also long live C63 AMG and AMG Wagon with same engine.
Merc used to make a fantastically good cars, now it's all about a mass production 😔
Hey do you understand german?
i heard the new c63 will have a 2.0 4 cylinder engine…
LS brother, LS ;)
Am I the only one imagining The Red Pig whenever anybody mentions AMG?
Time to change the intro
Old AMG sound tops new amg sound
No replacement for displacement
I like benz from 80s-90's
M100 & M120 (is wery best mercedes KRAFTWERK and one of best all time 12 cilinder 😑💪👂 pagan sonda
Americans 🤠: boy you call that a v8
7:41 Ahh! German engineering
And not to mention that there is actually Mitsubishi AMG