Here’s Why The 6.2-Liter AMG V8 Was The Least Reliable AMG Engine Ever Built & Is Now A Total Legend
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 เม.ย. 2019
- The first 500 people to click on the link below will receive 2 months of Skillshare Premium for FREE!
skl.sh/legitstreetcars
I've done a video on the most reliable Mercedes AMG Car ever built, I've made one on the best turbo diesel Mercedes ever made and I've made a few on factory defects. This is the story of the least reliable AMG ever made, the M156 6.3 Liter V8. The first engine built from the ground up by AMG didn't exactly pan out in the reliability department and in this video, I'm going to prove it to you. Enjoy and stay to the end to find out why I just bought a car with this ticking time bomb and why I think the M156 is still a total legend.
Friction Reducing Additive that can help with cam and lifter wear.
amzn.to/2TYlHka
Follow me on Instagram @LegitStreetCars
Check out my Amazon Garage - bit.ly/2TaFf5k
Buy AMG Key tags and Decals here! bit.ly/2z0uI4q
If you’d like to support the channel click on the Patreon or PayPal links below and include your email so I can say thanks!
paypal.me/LegitStreetCars
www.patreon.com/user?u=9823009
Head bolt bulletin and instructions to easier find your engine serial number and determine if you have the updated bolts.
bit.ly/2OUNJfb
Camshaft Adjuster Bulletin - bit.ly/2KfAI1d - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Take a guess at my new M156 equipped car. A little hint, it's white on black.
C63 AMG??
LegitStreetCars
Its a R63 van.
I agree with the r63. Hard to find. Prices are getting nuts on well sorted ones. I can’t wait to see!
C63 w204
Best guess on the tappets is that the factory reduced the diameter by a tiny amount so they wouldn't bind and would rotate better.. Any amount of oil shellac/varnish will cause problems... Try Auto-RX.com to "fix" a dirty engine IT FIXED the "VVT" system in my C230!! might work on an oil restricted/dirty adjuster in this engine,, then use a break-in/performance oil with zinc (1 qt) mixed with your full synthetic....
I have 15 friends who own the m156 AMG cars with this engine. No problems at all like what you are describing here. Me personally, I have a 2008 CLS 63 AMG 6.3 . Absolutely awesome car with absolutely no problems. The secret: Regular oil Changes, Every 5 years, replace Spark Plugs and Wires and Coil Packs. No bolt problems. Awesome Vehicle. Totally reliable and great at High Speed . I converted this car to 650 HP Naturally Aspirated. 0 to 60 in 2.79 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 10.179 seconds at a speed of 132.658 mph
650 ho n/a? How did you manage that? What upgrades?
My G if you have a M156 you should know it's a 6.2L
@alexandrubaginean7369 He's talking shit, 650hp with a supercharger I believe but even with long tube headers, a better intake system, full cat delete and a dyno tune you'll realistically make 560-570hp. I've interact led with a lot of M156 owners and none of them have broken 600hp without forced induction. Oh and he claims his car is a 6.3L so either he's lying through his teeth or he's a gullible idiot.
very true my friend, i have a 2009 cl63 with 110k miles , runs like a champ , oil changes at 3 k miles and good maintenance and shes a champion !
@@cohenday1377 I know that it’s really a 6.2 + L, but I am not the Manufacturer. Mercedes Benz when it was first introduced, stated it was a 6.3 L . But you know that!
I own one of these and have to say had a couples of issues mentioned. I also think that a 500 hp engine on a sedan is a lot. It’s supercar level power so you need to be prepared to spend a lot of money in preventive maintenance.
My car has almost 50kmiles and puts a smile on my face every day. That comes at a cost.
If you are worried get an extended warranty.
Or just get the M113K.
I won’t touch the M156 for the unreliability, low torque, and the gas guzzling.
These issues are easy repairs that don’t just present themselves out of no where leaving you on the side of the road. It’s a 6.2L engine that is capable of over 500hp in 2007
this channel is a wealth of knowledge to Mercedes owners or future owners, keep up the quality work Alex! thanks
Great video. Former C63 owner here. Had the headbolts, lifters, and injectors replaced preventatively. I’d also recommend the plastic idler pulleys get replaced with some type of billet pulleys.
Sir, if I may ask, how much did you pay for it? Thanks!
@@stefangeorgiev5855 Lots (too much).
My c63 2010 how to know if they are replaced or not has 80kmiles
@@stefangeorgiev5855 for all that…$7,000 but they pulled the heads, cleaned and decked them and replaced the valve stem seals also.
@@Jimmy18122 receipts. Or pull the valve cover and look at the bolt heads. You might be able to get a boroscope inside the oil cap and see a bolt head but I can’t remember. It’s unlikely they were replaced. Most owners don’t replace them unless they pop
Omg thank you for this video!!!!! Mine is an 07 w211 E63 with 126,000 miles. I have had none of these problems but they guy I bought it from kept meticulous maintenance records and kept it dealer maintained from new. I know how lucky I am with all of the problems this engine has.
This was one of my favorite videos so far. I really appreciate insight into the real life issues with these cars. There aren't many people doing what you do. Thank you!
Thanks Phillip. It took some time to make but I'm really happy with how it turned out.
Alex
Great vid Alex! I just got done watching a tear down of a failed one of these. It showed so many things you talked about. Thank you!!
Love this video...am so glad you actually went in depth & covered all these known issues with the M156, there are lots of misinformed car "youtubers" out there giving out false information saying this engine has absolutely no issues. I'm on my 2nd C63, my '09 with only 40k miles had lots of problems. My 2013 with 60k miles has noisy lifters constantly though I love the car for everything you've mentioned in the end.
H M. What kinds of issues have you had?
It’s worth mentioning that these engines need their oil changed every 4300~ miles; and yes, there’s a huge difference between different oils.
Castrol Magnatec fully synthetic oil is garbage oil, meanwhile Castrol Edge fully synthetic oil is very, very good oil.
Make sure you buy the right oil for your engine: it doesn’t matter if it’s fully synthetic, it can still be shit oil.
@@jgripen969 Yep these engines are very sensitive to oil. I've only used Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech made from Germany along with 2 bottles of Ceratec on both my M156's & now use the same on my M157. Ends up being a $150 oil change doing the labor myself but I don't cheap out on the oil changes
H M.
Try using AMG recommended oil instead and see if the engine is any quieter, it’s worth a shot.
@@jgripen969Which oil is recommended by AMG?
aaaand even after all of this, I STILL WANT IT
And people still want gorgeous stripper with aids. Is normal.
I have really enjoyed mine since I don't drive mine much at all just for pleasure, I have not had any of these issues.
@@Corsa15DT settle down Beavis, no need for an extreme hyperbole to show your contempt for the engine.
Absolutely great content, I love learning more about these things, and you truly are great at teaching, thank you. Subscribed also props to throwing shade at BMW
Fr they are by far the worst!
Pump those m156 videos out so we can start preventative maintenance from home plz!
Great video Alex just one more issue with them, the intake manifolds leak air, especially the plate the throttle bodies bolt up to, not sure what material its made of but it literally corrodes and causes holes that leak air causing a lean condition, it’s an easy fix as there are quite a few companies offering aluminum replacements for it. Just did one last week. Have another one coming in with broken head bolts that needs attention, that one is getting a blower while I’m at it!
Ah those things can be replaced by yourself and boom a reliable engine. I notice a missing door panel lol
If you pay a lot of money you gotta get something reliable asdhole
Fuck you ignorant fuck
@@josesibrio9959 tf is your problem? Go buy a Volvo or something
Fix it! Fix it! Fix it!
Wonderful video alex!
Very well researched and interesting af!
Please make more videos like this one
REally happy to see this video and finally know the ins and out of this engine!
Looking forward to future videos! I myself did exactly what your taking about. I got a great deal on a 2010 E63. I’ve changed the head bolts and the hydraulic followers myself.(valves) but the cams looked good. So they stayed. I’ll continue to keep an eye on them going forward. But the performance is great. I’m looking to add some more power as well. 👍👍👍👍
M113 for the win! Mine still runs smooth after 220k miles
Love the vids.
You inspired me to get back into the mb diesel game. I got an 05 320 cdi and the engine looks new. Amazing car
Fantastic video! Thank you for pulling back the curtain and showing us the Wizard of Stuttgart. He really needs to up his quality control and durability/reliability testing!
Great points Alex but I'm still offended lol! I love the m156! My w211 I bought with ARP studs already done. My w221 S63 doesn't have them but with almost 100k miles I would already see signs of head bolt stretch.
A lot of the lifter, tappet, bucket, adjuster noises/sounds are related to oil.. since these engines burn oil with lots of higher rpm driving most people don't top off and continue to abuse causing accelerated wear on those oil dependent parts. With consistent oil changes and keeping the proper level those damages can be prevented.
Don't forget the intake gasket leaks which seems to be pretty common and even the intake manifold itself have had cases of corrosion which creates a nightmare on diagnosing.
OH... and pulleys are designed poorly for being such a high revving engine.
As always, love the videos! Keep up the great work!
After watching this, I am very proud of my $6K S63 with 175K miles. Old video, still helping guys like me today! Happy New Year!
6K?? how the hell did you get one for 6k. wow
@@musterchef9031 200k miles thats why. there not meant to run that long
@@christianjohnz well i dont mind at all picking up one for 6k, damn
@@christianjohnz all lies, they can easilly run 200+k miles.
@@christianjohnz I'm running at 188k still runs like a champ
This is a GREAT idea for a video series ! Another GREAT video !!
Interesting video Alex , I'm getting my E320 CDI in the next couple of months and I can't wait buddy 😁😃👍
Congrats on hitting 150’ k subs , on your way up buddy! Well done !!cant wait for the next vid
I have a 2013 C63AMG and love it! The sound and pull makes me smile ear to ear. Pick the latest models you can with this engine.
I own two c63s, 2009 saloon and a 2012 Black Series coupe...... had them both from new, Love these babys so much!!!! N/A V8s....awesome just awesome motors.....
@@robertcooke8684 no u didnt shut up broke ass
@@robertcooke8684 broke ass nigga
@@caseyn8182 lmfao you dumb ass click on his channel he has a black series video
@@dr.emmettbrown5345 you look so dumb right now
Great Edit with the Lil Boosie Cilp.......love how this channel has grown
Great video -makes me glad I purchased the 55AMG instead! Dude though, keep those hands on the wheel when driving, don’t want you to prang it up on live feed!
Thank You so much for this review. You have saved me so much time and money because I really wanted an m156 engine.
"Would suck up an animal if it could" 😄😄 Loved it!
Great video love the informative information you provide
On of the best episode Alex good job!waiting on more episodes like this about other engines
Thanks Marcin!
I have a 2009 CLS 63 amg with the earlier M156 6.2 V8 which has the silver-grey aluminum valve covers and it is supposed to be one of those M156's that is affected by the head bolt issues etc... but my car runs strong and has covered 35,723 miles with no problems or misfires of any kind.
It could be the lower mileage... but I read somewhere on the Internet that someone's M156 suffered the head bolt issue at only 17,000 miles !!!
It just goes to show. I love the sound of the M156, you just cannot beat this sound and the power delivery is great ! M156 is a legend :)
Just wondering what size wheels do you have on your sl 63? Looks like 22”? Thanks
@@robertgray6631 I don't have an SL63, my car is a CLS63 (W219 shape) with 19 inch wheels. I now also have a 2010 W212 E63 AMG with the same 6.2 m156 engine as the CLS63 and that also has 19 inch alloy wheels too. I am not sure what the SL63 AMG has as standard from the factory, I presume it was also 19 inch wheels ?... I dare say some people might have fitted 20 inch wheels or maybe 22 inch with very low profile tires... I know that 22 inch wheels did come as standard on the 2007-2010 ML63 AMG. Sorry that I can't be of anymore help - Enjoy your SL63 AMG - Cool car !
I'm confused don't the cls 63 s AMG have a 5.5L ?
@@magnificentballer The first generation 2004 to 2010 w219 CLS AMG came with either a supercharged M113 5.4 V8 engine (the w219 CLS 55 AMG made 2004 - 2006) or an N/A 6.2 M156 V8 engine (the w219 CLS 63 AMG made 2006 - 2010).
The second generation CLS 63 AMG model (the w218 CLS 63 AMG model made 2010 - 2017) had the newer Bi-Turbo M157 5.5 V8 engine only.
The 6.2 N/A M156 V8 engine was never used in the newer w218 CLS model.
Hope you now understand.
First 10 minutes you had me about to write up my craigslist listing on my early model e63. Last 5 minutes you had me closing my craigslist window. Also love this video series where you walk us through the pitfalls of owing bargain German muscle cars with expensive parts.
Don’t worry the American high performance cars are getting up there in price , and there parts
Antimatter what do you mean “don’t worry”? Expensive parts are very worrying no matter the origin of the car!
evilz33 People that owned American cars bashed people for owning cars that were built overseas when something breaks its expensive, Now that American cars are getting just as expensive and so are there parts , what I meant by don’t worry I was being sarcastic
evilz33 you interested in selling it?
TSA Productions well anything’s for sale. It’s a 07 with 40k miles pretty good condition. Feel free to pm me your offer.
Great stuff Alex!
Alex, good to see you recording in Glenview on Lake Ave. Keep the great content coming.
Wish you had made this video last year. After a bad experience of trying to buy an e55, I had an great opportunity for an 08 e63 in Dec of 2018. I never felt so intimidated of an engine before. After putting 3k in work in trying to get it back to stock, I was afraid to push it because of the issues you noted reading all forums. Loved the look; amenities, and sound of raw power. Other than the constant brake squeal with new pads and lube; what really pushed me over was the fact of this grease smell that came from the rear end that permeated the cabin if I left the windows open when driving. I speculated it had to do with drive train but even a European specialty shop could not diagnose or probably didn’t even want to bother with. After putting up with and out so much money I just had to sale it for the safety of my family. First experience with Mercedes but probably my last as I came from a line of Toyota cars. I have never seen issues such as these before on any forums or Mercedes videos. I was done.
Interesting... I haven't heard of the fuel injector issue. Good info overall.
I just bought a 07 saloon today. 164,000 miles and I have to say that despite the negatives.... If you truly love a Top shelf whip in your control.. This is the car other cars want to be....
Great video. Very informative & I'll use this information whilst I decide whether to sell my current car for a C63.
Brother, thank you! I’m a big Benz aficionado and in the market for a C63 507 edition. Thanks to your video, I know what to check for now. Have a good one and may 2020 bring you more health, wealth & happiness to come
Congratulations on 150k!!! On your way to a million and maybe doing this full time!
When the "M" logo shows up talking about rod bearing wear HAHAHAHA. Well done Alex, another great video.
My bet is you went with a late first gen CLS 63, with the head bolts already done.
Max Shirk too funny hahahah
Even though it was a defect it wasn't common failure.
This guy is exaggerating. They're so few AMG's that suffer from any of these issues. I have a 2010 w219 cls63 AMG and I put 133k trouble free miles on it. He don't know what he is talking about and is just reading from old AMG forums which of course will only post people with these issues. The other thousands and thousands of M156 owners are not going to post their issues if they do not have any. I never met or known of anyone with the M156 with any of these issues. This video was unnecessary in my opinion.
@@talkditingsdem5799 do you have any shareable knowledge on the reliability on the w222 s class?
I have a 2008 E60 M5, with 6spd manual. It was a special ordered car (in BMW speak an Individual ordered car) full loaded, head up, sports seat, it has 83K miles on, I paid $17K. Purchased from the original owner with all documentation Dinan exhaust, ECU, and Intake. I had the rod bearing done, $3500. It's an amazing car, I like the E55/63 that was my back up purchase, but each cars have their own issues. I did a lot of research before my purchase
.
Great concept! More of these videos!
I usually like older MBs best, but this R230 SL body style (before the facelifts!) looks so so good, I love it. Amazing car.
Awesome content! I love your channel and your attention to detail!
I have a 2013 Z06 LS7. So far, so good. I'm nearing 70Kmiles with no indications of excessive valve guide wear. I get the oil sampled at the oil changes at Blackstone Labs. So far, there's been no wearable metals detected in the oil. Especially with titanium. I've read the valve drop issues were mostly involved with 2008-2010 engines. In Feb of 2011, GM told Linamar Machining to start doing a 100% inspection process on their heads. Seems to've worked. This engine in a sub 3200 lb car is absolutely terrifying at full chat above 4800. And it's smooth as silk. I absolutely love it. Hot Rod magazine purchased a long block crate LS7 for a project. After break-in, they ran base numbers. Installed, a bone stock LS7 does about 520-525 bhp and 490 lb-ft. And I average 22-24 mpg, and past 2 oil changes, no additional oil in 10Kmiles on each change. It's a real treat to drive.
Currently own two M156s and one M159, a facelift ML63, C63 507, and a SLS GT Coupe. Only the ML63 required the upgraded the head bolts. Upgraded the SLS and ML63 lifters to the Black Series ones. Got my C63 used at 10,000 miles, and has an injector fail at 11,500 miles, but luckily all of them were replaced under warranty. I had an 09 SL63 which I replaced the lifters on multiple times which was odd, but I think that was even before the SLS Black Series existed. Great vid, pretty much sums up all the issues. Something random is that the ML63 chug oil like crazy... gotta add a quart every thousand miles. It’s been like that with the two ML63s I’ve had, but I’m told it’s normal. Love my cars, and this engine. All about that preventative maintenance, and preparation to replace things!
You did the Volg very well, broke my heart a little but really good to know👍
Ive had two w204 C63s, about 60k miles between both of them w/bolt ons. No issues butbi was always on top of maintenance.
My first car is a 2013 and I had it for 4 months and now watching this video, I'm definitely buying the extended warranty now
My engine went last August on my 2007 E63, when coolant display showed I turned it off. Had a top engine rebuilt and runs light new. Engine went when I hit 83k miles.
Great show Alex.
Wow..that sucks ..I traded my 07 e63 with 163k and I miss her .. .. going for a s63 or cls63 in the near future
This is why your channel is so awesome alex!!! Im planning on getting a SL63 AMG... I knew about the head bolts but I just learned more about this engine I had no clue about...
Luckily I wrench and can fix it but now I have more bargaining chips!
@@talkditingsdem5799 Sorry man, but he's a former mercedes mechanic and knows alot.... he even mentions it's not on all engines and maintenance may have something to do with it but it's good to know... I even found another channel with a master mechanic that talks about these issues. You might've just lucked out and not been affected
@@talkditingsdem5799 you are completely contradicting yourself. If mercedes reccomends 10k mile oil change interval and you say to change it 5k to avoid it then that that is a flaw or defect and mercedes needs to change the reccomendation. Thats a defect if you cant follow factory reccomendations. Sounds like you have later model cars not affected by the issue... and the GT-R has the hot V engine, not the m156. Nothing alike
Check out Tasos Machatos from the UAE. He has many videos about lifter and camshaft lobe failures. He tends to think it is an oiling issue as they aren’t always ceased.
He's the best
LegitStreetCars he is great but it’s hard to follow his thoughts. Your content is organized much better. Please show us how to replace head bolts one at a time
This is actually the case. MB actually changed the recommended oil to use to 5w40, however some people still use 0w40 which is just too thin - especially in the warmer climates. In the UAE for example, they use 10w40.
Was going to mention him. He has some recent vids about manufacturing defects in brand new OEM M156 cams, specifically the oil passages weren't drilled out properly. And reading some of the comments in those vids, it doesn't seem to be an isolated issue nor does it seem relegated to any particular country of manufacture. Someone in the comments mentioned they bought brand new cams made in Germany that had this defect.
@@TheHonro I am using 10w60 . I also use Lubegard in the engine.
The c 63 is my favorite 2 door car ever! The 6.2 is a magical engine it sounds like no other,revs hard and and pulls forever! The issues are fixable but if you change oil very regularly i believe most issues will be avoided! Nothing great comes easy and any race engine is not hugely reliable! Id like to no if the falty parts used were actually lighter to help performance! But any race car engine needs to be highly cared for if you want a reliable everyday car buy the appropriate vehicle! If you want excitement buy a sports car but you will have to look after it!! Nothing comes for free!
Great, informative video and a look what's behind the glamour and PR fluff of AMG. That said, I am a little surprised that this big n/a V8 has so many inherent issues.
A friend of mine had the CLS 55 AMG and that was a money pit, supercharger bearing gone at 80,000 kms (about 50,000 miles) $5k AUD to fix (from MB dealer)..this was after a complete failure of the AIRMATIC suspension $10K AUD to replace all 4 corners about 3 months earlier. Best car to look at, drive and listen to, worst car to maintain and repair.
I have an 09 SL63 AMG. It is a super car! One of the fastest best handling cars I’ve ever driven. No issues with engine. Only the usual others with time. Like convertible stuff. I love it but like some others here have said. Its cost a little to own it and care for it.
8:26 - it (the lubrication performance discrepancy between intake/exhaust camshafts) is a design defect for the M156.
The camshaft's were originally too soft, but also the lubrication system design for the M156 and M159 should have included better lubrication to the (higher) intake camshafts.
Strategically located pressure jets solve the problem and were used in some DTM AMG 6.2 Litre DOHC V8's.
Aside from the above-mentioned issues (and the lifters, valve timing actuators, and injectors; which can all be replaced through a ~150K maintenance schedule); fundamentally, performance wise, the M156 is (as shown by the M159) a very well designed DOHC V8
Jim Stanley - Ex AMG powertrain engineer.
Thanks for your comment. Appreciate you coming in
@@LegitStreetCars No problems.
The German AMG 6.2 Litre M156 DOHC V8 has its USA pushrod nemesis in Chevrolet’s 6.2 Litre V8.
People argue all the time over whether a DOHC valvetrain alternative is better for the internal combustion engine, and also better for the Ford and/or Chevrolet’s pushrod V8 range.
And, the AMG M156 and M159 (as well as the 7 Litre Mercury Racing SB4) DOHC V8’s platforms provide a good comparison point for that debate.
Some of the Mercedes Benz AMG SLS Black Series coupe’s (~8 years ago) were pushing out 620 HP - straight from the factory - with their M159 6.2 Litre normally aspirated DOHC V8’s; and I know a few guys that - with only a few modifications and without turbos or superchargers - had them pushing out close to what the 7 Litre Mercury Racing SB4 DOHC V8’s are making; ~750 HP.
Remember this is on pump gas.
You're not getting that (pump gas) power output out of a normally aspirated 6.2 Litre LS platform (which I love) unless you run serious modifications, serious compression and serious camshaft; all of which would probably make the Chevrolet engine much less streetable than the above-mentioned Mercedes Benz 6.2 Litre DOHC engine; and also mean you would have to run race gas.
I remember at the same time, in order to come close to the power output of the aforementioned AMG 159 6.2 Litre V8 (~460KW/620HP) fitted into the SLS Black series, the 6.2 Litre V8 Chevrolet required a supercharger; and that tells how effective a DOHC system can be.
Given the popularity of the two 6.2 litre platforms, I'm surprised no-one has done a detailed engine based comparison on the 2, their heads, and their valvetrains.
There’s a lot of superior benefits (over the pushrod design) and value associated with the AMG m156 and M159 DOHC design (which is why Nelson Racing Engines tried to develop a DOHC V8); including the fact that even if you do manage to design a pushrod V8 that flows (at max lift/flow) as good as the DOHC design the fact of the matter is that;
A) The DOHC design will probably still flow better across most valve lift speeds/stages except maximum lift.
B) The DOHC design will inherently allow for a higher compression ratio (for pump gas) to be reliably run than most 2 valve pushrod valve architecture V8s.
C) The DOHC design will usually (if it is designed well) be without the traditional upper rev limits that the pushrod architecture possesses; as the DOHC - by comparison - has virtually no reciprocal weight and does not require the messy, heavy, and problematic (at high revs) lifter configuration that is essential to make the 2 valve V8 pushrod valve architecture work.
D) The DOHC design provide for vastly superior performance and tuning functionality due to that mentioned above, including how it provides for independent control of lift and timing across both the inlet and exhaust valves.
But, the DOHC 4 valve design will usually not provide all these benefits over the 2 valve pushrod valve architecture V8 at less cost; for the aforementioned reasons.
That said (and I love both Chevrolet and Ford) there are good reasons the Ford 5 litre 4 valve DOHC modular V8 has won so many engine design awards, and some of those reasons are as above-mentioned; and also because there is only so much you can do (particularly in terms of efficiency; not necessarily power) with a 2 valve pushrod valve designed V8.
But, it also must be said that for all the inefficiencies the 2 valve pushrod Chevrolet or Ford V8 has - and there are many of them - the fact of the matter is, if your target HP is up around 1200 then . . . . .
You can usually achieve that cheaper, easier, and more reliably with an aftermarket LS based block and other suitable components.
As the LS “system” is so refined and strongly supported by an aftermarket and the drag racing and custom car scene that LS based builds routinely push 1500HP so much that the 2 valve pushrod V8 option (particularly Chevrolets) simply wipes the board clean of any 4 valve DOHC architectural option advantage that may otherwise exist; particularly in terms of durability.
And therein lies the confusion for so many people as to how/why 4 valve DOHC architectures are better.
As so many people confuse that market superiority and big HP advantage as meaning that the 2 valve pushrod V8 architecture is better (engineering solution) than the 4 valve DOHC architectures.
As good as the Ford (and many other OEM manufacturers) DOHC V8 is, I am not sure it - or even an aftermarket version of it - would hold up too well to modifications to the tune of 1500HP; like the aftermarket LS based 2 valve Chevrolet can.
Which is why the aforementioned Mercury racing LS based 4 valve DOHC engines are so interesting; as you get the best of both worlds; the 4 valve DOHC architecture and all the reliability and aftermarket support that goes with the LS platform.
I would love to get my hands on one of those Mercury racing 9 litre (LSX based) DOHC 4 valve V8’s.
With a little bit of effort you could easily have a ~550 cubic inch normally aspirated LS based 4 valve DOHC V8 that puts out 1200 HP at 9000 rpm; that comes with none of the issues that often come with intake manifold pressurization systems like turbochargers and superchargers.
Still, due to all the above factors, if you’re planning a build and your target is close to 1500HP there is no way you will hit that target with a 4 valve DOHC V8 architecture at the same reliability, aftermarket support, and cost points as a typical 2 valve pushrod Chevrolet LS based V8 - even though the 4 valve DOHC architecture is a technically superior option. And, I say that with confidence, as I remember some of the issues the M159 and M156 used to have in the DTM vehicles.
That’s not to say the M159 and M156 can’t handle 800HP reliably, as not only, can they do so - but also, (because of their DOHC design; and provided its previously mentioned lubrication issues are addressed) they will live at a higher RPM longer than Chevrolet’s pushrod design will.
In some races in Europe, for a while back there when the 5.5 Litre M157 V8 was Mercedes' modern love child, race teams would often swap it out for the old M156 platform. Built/maintained correctly it's one of the best V8's ever.
As they say; there is many a slip between a cup and a lip.
Jim Stanley Hello Jim, thank you for your detailed and insightful comment. Could you tell us what you know about the Mercedes 7G transmission and why it's so dim witted compared to the equivalent ZF transmissions used by BMW and Porsche at the time. I'm told it's a range of issues such as the 'poorly engineered' mechatronic module, mediocre solenoids, sub-optimal configuration of the gear set. Thanks in advance.
@@SLO722 Whoa, where to start?
Assuming you're talking about the 722.9 . . .
Putting aside some pure mechanical considerations/oversights, I can probably answer your question (and direct readers to, if not the major, then at least one, source of most of the experienced problems with this gearbox) in a simple sentence . . .
The Siemens transmission control unit/module.
Cheers, Jim.
Sir, i have an 09 CL63 with a vin that is before the imroved parts. At 79k miles now, i just started getting the low coolant light. I am not a mechanic. What advice do you have? Is it time to let her go?
Nice Knowledge you have about the 6.3 liter engine which has 6.2 liters :))
550 SL. AMG. My favorite car. I’m looking to buy one next. What ever year 40 or 50 grand will buy me. This will be my last car. Glad I found you on you tube. I’ll be watching your videos to see how I can fix these cars. Thanks for you videos. Keep them coming.
The issue with the cam followers and cam lobes was twofold, metal hardness of cam lobe material as well as a well known lubrication issue from oiling holes that were too small, clogged or not drilled out/machined properly. Excellent video- thanks!
I just bought a 2011 E63 AMG 6.2. What do I need to do to prevent engine wear. What do I need to replace? What do I need to modify?
The CL63 is a beautiful car tho. My uncle has a 2012 CL550, gorgeous car
I have had my W211 for a little over year and it's still more reliable than my wife's 2012 E70 Bimmer. Super stoked to see what you do to this engine in hopes of replicating it myself.
Your wife’s BMW must have the N63 engine which is a horribly unreliable engine. Ironically in 2012 if you got the E70 with the 6 cylinder gas or Diesel engine they are completely bulletproof… go figure. (Im a Bmw guy)
Cant wait to watch you fix this into amazingness!
Thank Alex for another informative video! I can’t wait to see the new Mercedes!🐟
The only other issue I think is worth noting is the engines that had the plastic black valve covers - iirc all engines after 2010 is they WILL crack and leak oil at some point. Its in fact that common, that a lot of dealerships and aftermarket shops are always sold out of them and its usually a 2-3week wait to get new ones. Good news is, they are VERY easy to replace if you have little engine knowledge :)
yeah i need to replace the left side of mine, they run around 460 each
My head bolts gave out on my E63 at 74,000 I had them replaced at Mercedes Benz, while they were in there they changed the bucket shims and replaced the injectors, I change the oil between 4000-5500 miles. I love my car and nothing sounds like it
how much did it cost?
@@douglazamar8889 This answer will dictate my getting an E63.
Doug Lazamar strange plug but I made a video of how much it cost , $5555 for it all
I believe I saw your video you have a white e63 with black front grill?
@@Nissannx2000svg I just bought a 2011 E63 AMG. Looking to get those parts replaced. What Mercedes dealership did you go to? Did you still have a warranty? What's your IG to message you there.
Thanks for making a video on this engine
awesome video....would love if you did one on the m157
Mercedes is going to make you take this video down. Great video.
Looks like they made him take down the bulletin for the head bolts and cam shaft
Love the engine and the fact it’s NA. Like with full bolt ons, it will make 490whp NA. Sucks it had head bolt issues
@legitstreetcars This video was great!!! Please do a 4.2L RS Video like it?,
Thanks a lot for the info!
That Lil Boosie plug had me dead!!! Too funny
Yes. Start showing the preventative maintenance videos. I want to get an S63. 600 horses and a like amount of torque in an S class will be a beast.
lightning95sc I got a 2008 s63, it’s a love hate relationship lol
@@Don6six yeah because you could've got the s65 instead
Love the sound! (Also what Ferrari managed to do with the 812 superfast is insane, 800hp naturaly aspirated)
Great video. I really miss my 2009 C63. I sold it because the cam adjusters started to fail and I was still on the stock headbolts.
You mentioned a zinc additive for reducing wear. It can help, but the newest oils like the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, and Pentosin High Performance 1, 2, and 3 are using an entirely different batch of additives now and they perform very well in a broad range of lubrication tests - Even better than the high-zinc SJ and SM oils.
5W-30 though.. really wish they offered 5W-40
I have an 07' E63... I do love the car, but it has definitely not been a low maintenance car. Mine has almost 120k miles now. Bought it at 55k as a one owner car with clean title and in near perfect condition. So far, I've had the airmatic airbags go out and replaced with Arnott (highly recommend Arnott as opposed to OEM!), replaced radiator, engine mounts, pcv valve, intake manifold gaskets, radiator hoses, heater control valve, control arms, ball joints, radiator reservoir tank, 3 cams, all 32 lifters, and the transmission and torque converter, all out of necessity. As preventative maintenance I did have the headbolts done but they had not yet failed after 118k miles. As I write this, my car is at the local dealer for some of the items on this list including the transmission swap (went with a Renntech build), headbolts, cams, and lifters. My original transmission completely failed at 118k miles or so, however this being my first high performance car, it was admittedly my fault. I didnt service the transmission every 30-40k miles as one should so I accept that as my own fault. Valve body/conductor plate failure is common as well in the early model amg's with the 722.9 trans. When the car is running at optimal performance, it's an amazing car, and if you can afford the maintenance, it's definitely worth owning one. I've probably spent $30k or more on maintenance in the 3.5 years since I bought mine, and I am a big DIY guy for most stuff. If I'd had the dealer do everything, would've been easily over $50k by now. These cars tend to chew through brakes and rear tires in the blink of an eye, so that's important to keep in mind also. All in all it's been a great pleasure owning mine though... when it's working. 😂
Evan Nelson learn how to drive
@@ricky4638 I drive fine. I actually drive mine like it was built to be driven unlike most of the chumps that own an AMG. Perhaps your comment would have more accuracy of application to any of the drivers in any Prius, BMW, or Subaru group ever formed. Ever.
@@evannelson9327 hey c'mon now, 335i tuner on an e92, us oem brothers gotta stick together merc or bmw!:)
@@evannelson9327 I like that you drive it the way it should be, but ignorant people will think your driving slow and getting those problems.😂 Cheers, enjoy it, their made to shred the roads.
@@ricky4638 no, you dont buy a E63 amg to drive like a pussy, if you're too calm for it get a E240 and enjoy a 2.4 litre engine with no maintenance required.
Fun fact Mercedes still uses the 6.3l NA V8 in its AMG GT3 race car
i know that spot where you took that launch video, i used to help out at a shop in that area! i hope i can meet you one day man!
You missed the intake manifold gasket. My car went 215 kmi before the valve bucket problem. 2007 E63 bought new
Thanks for posting this, now M156 owners will purge themselves of their C63’s so I can buy two!
Lol
Been searching on autotenpest 😂
As we speak mine is getting a hand wash and hand wax. Lol
Dan Collins , did you bought it ?
I guess I got a lucky one
Mine is 2013 ML 63with 160.000 miles and no problem so far
Alex, How are you enjoying the car now? Very interesting video, I haven't had any of these problems yet on 2010 with 73K miles.
Great video! Just purchased the CL63 45k miles. Absolutely loved this car and I hate to get out of it. My SS Camaro was my daily, but has quickly become my 2nd car LOL!!!. So much power and fully loaded luxury. What a fucken car. And now that they've stop making the S63, this will become once of the great AMG vintage cars on the road. Nothing like it.
Hey Alex, great work on the video. I'm happy my snapped head bolts have made it to internet fame. The bolt picture with the red arrow is my car 2008 C63 from Canada with a failure at 57,000km. I also speculate that the failure point was in the second picture with the red lines on the bolt cross section and is why they have done away with that type of bolt going forward. I have more pics and vids if your interested to see them Andrew Amg on facebook. Maybe it's time to make a video on why the OM642 is even worse engine then the M156.
No way! Thanks for the pictures.
@@LegitStreetCars Yeh, I put on my tv and went to look at my subscriptions and I was like why are my head bolts on tv. Watched the video and I couldn't agree more with what you said.
damn this freaked me out about the 63 engine
I am a Benz tech (independent shops only) for the past 25 years. I remember these same kind of issues on the old M103 straight 6 , as well as some on the old M117 V8's. And the OM 601, 602, 603 dizzel engines. Soft cams, and followers, rocker arms,etc.. I love Mercedes cars, and have owned a number of them over the last 20 years. I always wondered how they could let these kind of things slip by, and wondered if it was an issue with their sub contract companies not following specs. (i have heard that was the case in a number of instances). Like your videos, and you are even teaching an old dog like me a thing or two!
Great Video..I'm nervous about my car now but it has the M159. I was told by people that the engine was "bulletproof" I am wondering, did they fix the issues that you mentioned for the M159 engine?
Great info! I've been eyeing a ML63 for some time, but things bout them do scare me. How are the ML550's engines for reliability? New sub and just found you so I haven't been through all your content yet, I'm sure you've covered the 5.5L at some point.
Jeff S depending on SN of your motor common issue is usually the idle timing.
I have a 2001 ML55 AMG with 247,000 and it's still running strong! I feel like they can go well over 300k but, not trying to jinx myself. Just keep up with the oil changes with quality full synthetic oils and high performance oil filters. The radiator has a bad OEM design where the concentric cooler on either side will leak. So go with an OSC or a high performance radiator.
So glad my 3 AMGs are older models with the legendary M113!!!
Great vid, thank you. Your Camshaft adjuster bulletin link is bad. Grateful if you can fix. Thanks 👍
I have a 2013 C63 sedan with 43K miles all stock right now. Didn't know about the injector issue. There are a couple more problems you didn't mention. The cam cap bolts are also weak. Also the oil pan bed plate starts to leak after a while because there's no gasket and the sealer/glue used breaks down. Have to pull the engine to reseal it.
ARP makes upgraded head bolts, cam cap bolts and cam phaser bolts that you can buy from a place like Weistec. Some recommend changing from Mobil 1 to a better oil like Motul for better overall engine wear. I'd also recommend getting the engine to normal operating temp before hammering on it or even revving it hard. An oil catch can like the one from Weistec may also be a good reliability upgrade for these. As for power, a Eurocharged tune will bring hp up to 540. Just install the tune and forget it because it's smog legal.
Was wondering when skillshare would get in touch. You've officially made it. Only the best channels have skillshare as a sponsor.
Is it just me or is that SL driver side door missing interior door panel?
It's missing
I second that ! I noticed too ! Good Eye !
It either is it or isn't there's no need for that "is it just me" business
SL - Sport Light, presumably a further weight saving upgrade.
So the non existent door AND the rattles heard in the video are optional?
Holy shit - you know your stuff - old school big block - we love it!!
An honest assessment of this engine...I was considering one of these cars because the interiors are nicer and I like the power it has. I think I will stick with a little less horse power and more reliability...Good information as always Alex!!!
Which one would that be?
1:24 "Cheapest in the country type deal" . . . Hoovie has entered the chat room . . .
I plan on buying a 2013-2015 C63 , figure buying the last two years of the M156 since the kinks have all been worked out.
Hope you got that motor...... V8 magic!!!
So good video!