I was very fundamentalist in the 1970s and 80s and proud member of the Moral Majority. I loved your fiery preaching against abortion and unrighteousness back then. I am so happy to see your message today. I have deconstructed also and am also trying to undo some of the damage in my evangelical days.
I deconstructed after 40 years of evangelicalism and obtaining advanced degrees in biblical theology. Frankie's book "Crazy for God" confirmed suspicions I was having at the time. The book was a key to may beginning my deconstruction.
The first mistake of bad Christianity is believing that Jesus died to modify behavior. Abortion, Gay rights, sinful behavior preaching was not the great commission. Thats why it never worked. And why all those movements are dead or a shell of their former selves. And why many are shipwrecked and dead to Christ.
This brought two quotes to mind. The first is from 'King of the Hill', when Hank tells a Christian Rock singer, "you're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock and roll worse". The second was Christopher Hitchens' response to the death of Jerry Falwell. "If they'd given him an enema, they could have buried him in a matchbox."
There's truth in what you say. Christianity isn't really 'Rock and Roll' translatable, unless you hear something like Zager and Evans "In the year 2525', which should be updated to yesterday.
As a former, now deconstructed, fundamentalist, I very much appreciate Frank Schaeffer’s videos and interviews. They strike a resonant note into the rage I still feel deep inside towards the fundamentalism that took my child-mind and used my trauma to mold me into a willing follower and tithe-payer for decades, promising me freedom and healing, and the same for my family if I did as I was told by the org. They promise the exact opposite of what they deliver, fundamentally (pun intended ), and they blame the believer when the failings of the org become apparent and cannot be un-seen. It’s not good.
@@erstwhile3793 I relate! Although, I’m amazed that all during my church and Bible College years, in my mind, I always kept separate my inner world, and the stuff I was being taught. I feel the same as you, and you make a great point about how the church uses our trauma to manipulate us, that is so true, and so egregious and selfish on their parts! It took me a long time, but, what I think we all need to figure out is how to connect with the “Christ”- or use any word that feels better for you, we all have Divine Love within us, and that’s our job, right? To connect with that Source and to develop our own connection with It. It takes decades of de programming. Sending you tons of peace. We can all recover and become our true selves. Our “freedom and healing” is within us. When we seek, we find- and sometimes we have to travel down lots of roads to find it. But it’s always there, within us, not “out there”, in any church or guru. Take good care. I appreciated what you shared.
I attended Liberty Baptist College changed around 1985 to Liberty University from 1980 to 1985. Jerry Falwell Sr. had all kind of problems. Don't forget the problems that Jerry Falwell Jr. experienced in Miami.
At my Fellowship group in the 1970s, Francis Schaeffer could do no wrong; he was a living prophet. Even back then I had the faintest inkling that something wasn't right; but it took me several years to work through it all and come out a happy atheist, pro-choice and ally to my LGBTQ+ friends and colleagues. I have immense respect for Frank Schaeffer, for the long and difficult journey that he has taken, and the great work he has done to share his message.
@@dismantlingdoctrinethat tells you everything you need to know.. that's very sad. God loves you why would you turn your back on him.. We all have a God-shaped void, that we try to fill with counterfeits that only Jesus Christ can fill.. he wants a relationship and fellowship with us. He loves us and wants to spend eternity in heaven with us. We need to be sorry to God for what the Bible says is sin. Only once we realize we're lost can we be saved by trusting and the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He shed his blood for us taking our sins upon him, and he gives us his righteousness when we put our trust in his finished work on the cross, asking him to forgive us and save our souls from hell.
@@oshea2300 You're not proving anything. You're just restating a standard appeal to Christain doctrine that we've all heard a thousand times. I'm not going to suddenly think, on the thousandth hearing: oh yeah, wow, Jesus shed his blood for me. Even that claim raises so many questions: why can't God just say "your sins are forgiven" and leave it at that. Jesus did that in the Gospels, forgave since on the spot. Why all this palaver with being executed by the Romans, just to forgive sin? And so on ... all you're really doing is saying "I believe in a god so you should, too".
It still isn't the place for the Church to become involved in 'Secular Affairs' and by doing so not only weakens the faith but causes division...which is never good for God or Country.
This is the FINAL SCHISM for Protestants. It is the culmination of the 200-year-old Jesuit plot to destroy the 500-year-old Reformation with 1,000 denominations with wildly divergent Dogmas. The Pope will be crowned Vicarius Dei (substitute God) of the One World Religion at the Great Re-Set on 09/23/26, and will immediately grant all power and authority to the NEON GAUD -- the Light Bearer of pure logic -- the abomination of our desolation. Final judgement is set for 10/10/26, Daniel 7: 9-14
I have such heavy reaction to this. I grew up in an environment were these guys were heros of the faith in modern times. Over time I’ve come to see them as a seed of destruction, of the country and the church. Interestingly my renunciation of the “evangelical” label has strengthened my faith in Christ. All this stuff was actually a hinderance to following Jesus. I am saddened when I hear of those who also gave up the faith when they turned on evangelicalism.
I believe deconstruction, deconstructing one’s faith, is an important step towards enlightenment. Some will strip away all the man-made extras, like the invention of hell by the early Catholic Church, and find what’s important for them again, like following Jesus. Others will still follow Jesus’ teachings, or at least the intended spirit of those and his parables, but walk away from organized religion. Neither is right and neither is wrong. As for me, raised in a good church, I am thankful for what I’ve learned through deep study, probably more than most church-goers,and now, in my 80s, I no longer want organized religion. I can still admire much of the good some local churches do, while wanting no part of the larger « church ». I suspect millions feel the same way, but are too afraid or too pressured by family and friends to admit it.
@@dismantlingdoctrine Thank you. My husband and I began this journey over thirty years ago, thanks to an enlightened minister who introduced us to the late Bishop Spong. We actually heard him ( and others, like Borg) in person a few times. My spouse has done most of the deep study and led several church study groups over the years. Even though we no longer attend church, we haven’t officially broken the ties, and our congregation is asking for more! The fact we’re in a small village, with a small congregation( one of three) and people are open to this progressive thinking, makes that even more special, I think.
One of the understudied and cloistered mysteries of the Evangelistic movement in the US during the 70's and 80's is the Shepherding Movement. Many crazy stories there! This ridiculousness still goes on today.
I read your book, "Sham Pearls before Real Swine," in college around 1993 and grew up listening to Steve Camp who has a song, "Bad News for the Modern Man" that references you. I also heard you speak during a Petra concert, I believe. I was staunchly anti-abortion. But I really didn't know better. Lost my faith in 1994, and the struggle for me has been how to honor my spouse's continued belief without totally destroying myself. It's been very difficult.
@@jithel7948 I hear you. Having a partner who is still a believer can be extremely difficult. I know of several people who are struggling to make their relationships work in these kinds of circumstances, and it’s hard to do. You have my sympathy.
Some find that they were NEVER Born Again BY EXPERIENCE but by just following a formula, and then attempting to live by such formula, thus it's not deconstruction but a coming to a reality that they NEVER had what they were told or were convinced that they had
If you truly lost your faith, you may not have been truly saved to start with. You need to pray and truly seek God's wisdom and examine yourself and make sure you are truly in salvation.
@@leechjim8023 I’ve heard that charge numerous times. I was a true believer, like Frank, faithfully serving God as a pastor and Bible college teacher for more than 20 years.
I, as a Catholic, stayed at French L'Abri for two months in 1975. Twice weekly a dozen or so of us travelled to Swiss L'Abri for services and events. I met Francis Schaeffer and heard Udo Middleman and Os Guinness speak. A very interesting and formative time in my life as I was 20 yrs. old with a questioning, philosophical mind. Would like to meet Frank Schaeffer. I had heard of him then and saw his photo in a book I purchased there.
@@ichthus1890 it certainly does sound like it was a great experience. L’Abri was definitely ahead of its time as compared to most evangelical movements back then.
@@dismantlingdoctrine I stayed Catholic; Francis Schaeffer was wrong; Peter and Paul really did move to Rome, as secular history recounts. Pope Francis, however, is a completely different challenge in my view. I'm not fundamentalist, as Frank would, I think say, just Bible and tradition believing. And, I would add, any objective, informed account of the current state of world affairs affirms this. Don't plug me into a political genre. Let's be wiser than that.
So my parents would leave me with these ultra religious people when they had to travel overseas. One time, when I was older, my sister was not with me as she was allowed to stay with a friend. They took me out to Lynchburg and Falwell "saved" me at the age of 7. They really coerced it out of me. My mother was horrified when mail started come to me from them. I'm happy to say the "saving" never took.
I left the faith around the time Falwell et al were getting a lot of ink. Not directly cause and effect, but his schtick was part of the evangelical subculture with which I became increasingly disenchanted.
Blessed is he that made it through 80s/90s American showbiz, profit generating, leaven heavy evangelicalism with his faith in Christ in tact. Many who believe they left Christianity actually moved from one level of unbelief to another. In the midst of all the schlock that passes for Christianity, Jesus knows and saves those who believe Him! And renounce the big show.
@dismantlingdoctrine People who couldn't tolerate the Jerry fallwells. The Kenneth Copelands. The Jan with the pink hair that would squirt tears with her mascara running begging for money so she could send barbies with a tag saying Jesus loves you to children in countries that needed food and medical help.
It's about faith. They teach it as believing without question not knowing what the real faith is. That God is love. I am so glad so many left those puffed up self righteous blow hards. We would have no chance of getting rid of the trump project 2025 freaks. There are too many as it is.
It’s interesting listening to this since I was brought up in an extended fundamentalist evangelical family (Baptist and Plymouth Brethren) and my personal journey away and out of that world started when as a teenager when the late Jerry Falwell Snr came as a guest preacher in our Baptist church. Even as an impossibly naive teenager (we did not have TV in our house as my parents considered it as ‘a tool of the devil’), I could tell that this famous Christian leader was full of anger & hate and repellent. At least three times during his sermon he went into a rant about gays. Now homosexuality was not an issue on the radar in my small city and we all wondered what he was on about - but what ever it was this strange man was clearly obsessed by it. Looking back on it now as an adult in my 60’s its clear this was not a sermon but a Republican party political broadcast.
So similar to my own story! I was raised in a fundamentalist home too. No TV, no rock music, etc. The Moral Majority came out in 1979 and my pastor in Seattle was influenced by Falwell Sr.
God's judgement is always just. No one is ever falsely accused and mercy often proffered. BY the same measure that you use to judge others, so shall you also be judged by God. Project 2025 is the FINAL SCHISM for Protestantism. And that's the culmination of the 200-year-old Jesuit plot to destroy the 500-year-old Reformation. Hundreds of millions deceived by False Prophets. Matthew 24: 24.
@@dismantlingdoctrine To refute the contention that Frank was never a true believer. 3 weeks ago @jertexjertex7880 who, Frank? Was he never a true believer then? Reply @nobodyknows4590 3 weeks ago @dismantlingdoctrine No, he was not.
@@dismantlingdoctrine He claims his father, the late Francis Schaeffer, called for violent overthrow of the U.S. government. Show me (with documentation) where Francis Schaeffer ever said any such thing.
@@citizenken7069 at no point in this video does Frank make such a statement. What exactly is your agenda? To prove Frank wrong on whatever point, and then conclude..what exactly?
1 John 2:19 - "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us."
@@nobodyknows4590 if that's the case, then neither was I...but both Frank and I served God faithfully for decades. How do you account for our track record as believers?
@@dismantlingdoctrine A decade is a blink of the eye in God's time. You and he tried to be faithful to God for a little while. It wasn't real for Frank, obviously. Hope it is for you. But the fact remains, we are all called but few get into the Kingdom of Heaven.
@@nobodyknows4590 are you a Calvinist? I was a seriously committed Christian for my entire life. Former pastor and Bible college teacher. You can’t say that I wasn’t a Christian.
@@Billybo-22 find out in his own words! We talked about this very thing a few years ago. podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1199559501?i=1000503128114
I don't doubt any De-constructionist's genuine sincerity when they say they tried everything they could do. I know Ex-believers who were on fire for jesus. My problem is understanding the starting point from where they thought they were christians. I know this sort of thing up close and personal because I have a sibling like that. Life's circumstances made her question her faith and turn sour on it. But here's the difference, I knew she never really was the whole ten years she played the game so perfectly. I asked her why she left, and she said, 'There's no proof.' I asked her why then did she 'believe'? She too thinks she was the real article; a bonafide christian believer. All de-constructionists must maintain that argument to be relevant to each other. But it cannot be explained to you or any of the others what your problem is, because you are incapable of receiving it. That is what I realize. I'm never surprised when someone falls away. I'm more surprised they ever believed. How does a person believe in anything without in your face evidence? But people think faith is blind and that's what makes it faith. That ain't faith. Then after they fall away they begin to gather the evidence for why it's silly and stupid to believe in such things that can't be proven. Give me your christian testimony as to why you think you ever were and not merely self-deceived. And I know you will never convince me you had anything beyond a christian flavored religion as dead and useless as the rest. I look at you this way: since I know you never were, it means the open possibility that someday you might be.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. In my case, all I can say is that you'd struggle to find a more dedicated Christian than me. I was a pastor and Bible college teacher for more than 20 years. I did a bachelor's degree, 2 master's degree, and a PhD in OT/preaching. In my new book, "Not So Shiny Not So Happy People," you'll encounter my story of growing up Christian and seeking to serve and love God with all my heart for virtually all my life. It's available on Amazon if you want to check it out.
The thing that's difficult for me to understand is why or how the son of Francis Schaeffer couldn't see through the Jerry Falwell types from the get-go. I come from that period of time and if a Jerry Falwell type had come around us, we would have laughed at him. I know, not a very Christian response, perhaps, but we would have seen right through him. Why couldn't the son of one of the most insightful Christian teachers of that time not understand where these guys were going wrong?
@@CSUnger in our podcast we discussed this. At the time, Frank was trying to promote the film series about abortion and major influencers like Falwell helped he and his father get it off the ground. Somewhat of a transactional relationship I think.
That’s probably where they went wrong. Getting into the peripheral things of the Faith instead of developing Faith itself. It looks like and smells like Faith but it’s at best, a low view of Faith. I noted your response to another comment on this thread where you stated that you, like Frank Schaefer, were a “true believer” ( your words) I don’t doubt that for a second, but where I’ve seen countless “true believers” go wrong is that they never advance to Faith. They stay at “belief” and other things come in and eventually they find reasons to either abandon their belief entirely or they make up their own distorted version of it.
@@CSUnger well, I was a truly saved Christian. I’m a former pastor and Bible college teacher of more than 20 years. I faithfully served God and the church my entire life…until I walked away from it all in the end. My book, “Not So Shiny Not So Happy People,” describes my journey.
I looked up the book on Amazon. I’m going to purchase it and read it and get back to you, if that’s alright with you. I have to tell you, though, the name Bill Gothard doesn’t give me much confidence that what you were involved with was true Christianity, but I’ll read it. My experience has been that most of what goes by the name “Christianity” is a watered down version of the real thing.?
@@CSUnger I’ll let you be the judge. Just because I use his name doesn’t mean I followed his teachings later in life. I was raised in it, however, with parents who attended his seminars and were heavily involved in his work.
We all have a God-shaped void, that we try to fill with counterfeits that only Jesus Christ can fill.. he wants a relationship and fellowship with us. He loves us and wants to spend eternity in heaven with us. We need to be sorry to God for what the Bible says is sin. Only once we realize we're lost can we be saved by trusting and the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He shed his blood for us taking our sins upon him, and he gives us his righteousness when we put our trust in his finished work on the cross, asking him to forgive us and save our souls from hell.
@@oshea2300 good try preaching to me with Christian platitudes. I was an evangelical pastor for decades and preached the same message you’re laying on me now. Believe me, it’s loaded language that is totally ineffective.
There is a great deal wrong with modern Christianity (as well as historical Christianity). We should never underestimate the power of self-deception, ego, pride, and impure motives. That said, not even the most sincere Christians are immune, but if you judge Christ based on the excesses of the notably imperfect, you are sure to arrive at an imperfect conclusion. I am also notably imperfect, and so are all my Christian acquaintances. But God help us, we wish to be more compassionate, sober-minded, loving, sincere, genuine followers of Christ. We have this desire because of God's mighty work in our hearts. My heart breaks over failures of those who have poorly represented Christ, just as it does over my own failures. Yet, our failures don't disprove the truth of the gospel. Redemption is still the goal of Christ's finished work, and God is pleading with you through His word and his people to be reconciled.
@@dismantlingdoctrine I'm hoping this is a sincere reply. Your reply spawns other questions. Are you referring to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John? Are you referring to the many non-cannonized (spurious) accounts that cropped up in church history? Are you asking about modern(ish) versions proposed by philosophers of more recent days? "The gospel" I refer to is the same gospel referenced in all of the Apostle Paul's letters, and the four mentioned above. But, I'm thinking that you must have known that's what I meant. Are you trying to make a different point?
@@rickbailey7450 the 4 gospels, yes. Scholars have long agreed that there are significant differences, variations and contradictions between them. This inevitably leads to questions about their reliability and portrayal of Jesus the character in the narrative.
Good observation, it's an oxymoron belief system that fuels flames of selfishness. The comparison of because one can stand in a garage and call themselves a car doesn't make them a car. Likewise, all baptized Christians have to ask themselves, knowing of their own personal Judgement day these same questions of the Holy Innocents and how they defend life inside the womb until natural death, outside the womb. Have a blessed life.
@@PapaBear-k4k I feel that he definitely did. I spent my whole life serving God only to realise that he is both silent and invisible. I walked away in the end.
@@PapaBear-k4k no I don’t believe in God. But I spent my entire life trying to serve and obey that God, but finally had to admit that he doesn’t exist.
Scrubbing frank’s stuff is like that the vid of trump saying he would go republican is he ever went political. He would do that because he says those voters are really dumb. I remember that vid but its been gone for many yrs
ALL of the living Prophets on Christian Network TV and in Pentecostalism and New Apostolic Reformation are FALSE PROPHETS. ALL OF THEM. And OVER 93% of men and women are nearly deaf and blind spiritually. As in the days of Noah. If you seek a place to make your stand -- stand with the church of brotherly love -- Revelation 3: 6-12. We keep Jesus' commandments -- Matthew 22: 36-40, and have the "little Strength" of the Rock -- Matthew 16: 17-18. See also: Matthew 6: 5-8
@@monicadaniels784 Now after I left this cult I see these fundamentalists as the real christians. These kind of people are the ones who goes in 200%. They believe that the Bible is inerrant and literally true. They are the real shit. And they are both evil and insane.
@@dismantlingdoctrineonly if you call cases of rape or incest pro choice. That’s why they say he was pro choice. He did say in those cases it may be allowed.
Biblical christianity is true. Why would so many yearn for it? TH-cam has given a place where there is a connection of believers. Including iran where there is the fastest church growth.
With all due respect, I disagree. Megachurch pastors are not evangelicals by definition. Evangelical means to teach the gospel. It’s hard for Pharisee to be evangelical. They are too busy lining there pocket. These are companies. They’re not churches.
@@RandomDad2024 unfortunately the term “evangelical” has come to symbolise the greater Christian movement. Evangelicals are technically less strident fundamentalists, as they disagreed with some of their more militant stances back in the 1940s-50s. They’re more centrist than fundamentalists.
Your religion shall change from the mere intellectual belief in traditional authority to the actual experience of that living faith which is able to grasp the reality of God and all that relates to the divine spirit of the Father. The religion of the mind ties you hopelessly to the past; the religion of the spirit consists in progressive revelation and ever beckons you on toward higher and holier achievements in spiritual ideals and eternal realities. from Paper 155.6 of The Urantia Book
As the brilliant Christopher Hitchens wrote in his wonderful book, "god is not great, Religion Poisons Everything" the people and organizations you speak of are proof of his thesis.
Yes it really helps the faith look sour . the wrong sinful hipocrites get away with as much as the Honest who get screwed over. Praying to solve the promise that never happened needs to prevail in order for it to work at all.
I am curious how you differentiate an evangelical, fundamentalist, or a mainstreamer. I am a Christian. I absolutely despise both fundies and evangelicals with a purple passion. I don't wear my faith on my sleeve or force it on others. I have a live and let live policy on matters of faith. If anyone accuses me of not being Christian; that person is having hell to pay. I voted for Donald Trump. Does that make me a monster?
No, it doesn't make you a monster. But it does support a whole administration that is deeply corruption and seemingly dedicated to tearing down American democracy. There's a definite difference between fundamentalist and evangelical but increasingly it's becoming harder to distinguish.
@@dismantlingdoctrine Just replying to you without providing counterpoint and counterclaim. That will only add fuel to the towering inferno raging in your belly. I have met people who have done business with him. None of them have a negative thing to say about him. Where is YOUR evidence he is corrupt. Where is evidence that provides evidence he is a Nazi. By the way how do you know he is tearing down democracy? If anyone tried to destroy our Constitutional rights it was Bush Obama and Biden. Has he personally tried to deplatform you or your colleagues? Has he used the courts to shut you off? The man has been out of office for two years. Get over yourself. No one here is that important.
I have met many people on the same level of Jerry Fallwell, Joel Osteen. I am not impressed either. Even though it has been proven false, it wouldn't surprise me if you still believe the Russia hoax.
@@dismantlingdoctrine Where is your evidence of corruption? I disagree there is a difference fine line between evangelical and fundamentalist. It is obvious that you have gotten yourself wrapped up in the epidemic Just because Evangelicals and Fundies are behind Donald Trump just adds fuel to the hatred burning in you.
You say you are a "Christian" which I will take at face value, though that can mean many different things in our culture. The next thing you say however is that you "absolutely despise with a passion" other Christians that you condemn and label as "fundies and evangelicals" Uh, that does not really sound like a follower of Jesus to me. Instead it reminds me of one of the Lord's parables: Luke 18:9 "Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men-extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” You go on to talk about "having hell to pay." Is hell just a colorful figure of speech to you or do you believe there actually is such a destination? If you did, I would think you would be less antagonistic to sharing your faith with others.
SO it appears Mr. Schaeffer was NEVER actually Born Again BY EXPERIENCE, but was one of those that has just made a mental acceptance of a superficial belief system.
His last statement is pure IGNORANCE. THE very name Christian means a representative follower of Christ. We are called to be Ambassadors of the Christian theology of life. A proactive posture of rescuing the unsaved is the highest goal of the believer next to demonstrating christlike character. This is a man who is deep in self deception of the truth he has been given.
@@paulenzor6993 who, Frank? I’d say that most Christians today barely resemble the Jesus of the Gospels. And, which Jesus? Which Gospel is the most accurate, since they contradict each other? Pick a Jesus from at least one, then tell me how you resemble that one.
@@dismantlingdoctrine I trust you wouldn't expect me to believe that without indisputable evidence. So, is there a record of him saying that or writing it that you can point me to?
@@fakeyououtdotcom2409 see the article by Randall Balmer on the true origins of the Christian Right. Also this quote by Billy Graham on Larry King in 1988 shows that he wasn’t completely “pro-life.” He said: “I would be for abortion in violent rape. I’m against abortion. I take the same stand that the Pope takes. I’m against abortion except in cases of rape and in cases and violent rape I would say, and then in cases where the mother’s life is in danger.”
@@fakeyououtdotcom2409 I didn’t say he was pro-choice, just that he wasn’t entirely opposed to abortion-like so many evangelical leaders were back in the day, like Criswell and even Falwell.. Their position has radically changed since then.
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I was very fundamentalist in the 1970s and 80s and proud member of the Moral Majority. I loved your fiery preaching against abortion and unrighteousness back then. I am so happy to see your message today. I have deconstructed also and am also trying to undo some of the damage in my evangelical days.
Great--it's true, most of us have experienced some form of religious trauma syndrome.
I deconstructed after 40 years of evangelicalism and obtaining advanced degrees in biblical theology. Frankie's book "Crazy for God" confirmed suspicions I was having at the time. The book was a key to may beginning my deconstruction.
The first mistake of bad Christianity is believing that Jesus died to modify behavior.
Abortion, Gay rights, sinful behavior preaching was not the great commission.
Thats why it never worked. And why all those movements are dead or a shell of their former selves.
And why many are shipwrecked and dead to Christ.
I never liked the moral majority! It definitely wasn’t moral and they were nowhere nearly as majority!
@@rethinkingjesus Don’t be too hard on yourself. We are all stumbling around in the dark to one degree or another.
I like Frank Schaeffer. He's very frank.
Love chatting with Frank. It's definitely time to reconnect and do another show.
He’s Frank, but definitely not Schaeffer
Pun intended? 😂
@@bluerimber4342 Well, he does live up to his name. 😄
Frank but not Francis..
“If you gave Falwell an enema he could be buried in a matchbox.” Christopher Hitchens
Chris as always NAILED IT.
@@MrTahuna333 classic!
Beautiful quote. Thanks for the reminder. I miss Chris
@@floccinaucinihilipilifications truly a great mind.
@@floccinaucinihilipilifications he was a true legend!
This brought two quotes to mind.
The first is from 'King of the Hill', when Hank tells a Christian Rock singer, "you're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock and roll worse".
The second was Christopher Hitchens' response to the death of Jerry Falwell. "If they'd given him an enema, they could have buried him in a matchbox."
@@FosterZygote funny because for years I played drums in Christian rock and metal bands.
There's truth in what you say. Christianity isn't really 'Rock and Roll' translatable, unless you hear something like Zager and Evans "In the year 2525', which should be updated to yesterday.
As a former, now deconstructed, fundamentalist, I very much appreciate Frank Schaeffer’s videos and interviews. They strike a resonant note into the rage I still feel deep inside towards the fundamentalism that took my child-mind and used my trauma to mold me into a willing follower and tithe-payer for decades, promising me freedom and healing, and the same for my family if I did as I was told by the org. They promise the exact opposite of what they deliver, fundamentally (pun intended ), and they blame the believer when the failings of the org become apparent and cannot be un-seen. It’s not good.
@@erstwhile3793 so true. Religion promises so much and yet delivers so little.
@@dismantlingdoctrineDoes this religion you speak of represent Jesus?
@@fakeyououtdotcom2409 Jesus included, yes!
@@erstwhile3793 I relate! Although, I’m amazed that all during my church and Bible College years, in my mind, I always kept separate my inner world, and the stuff I was being taught. I feel the same as you, and you make a great point about how the church uses our trauma to manipulate us, that is so true, and so egregious and selfish on their parts! It took me a long time, but, what I think we all need to figure out is how to connect with the “Christ”- or use any word that feels better for you, we all have Divine Love within us, and that’s our job, right? To connect with that Source and to develop our own connection with It. It takes decades of de programming. Sending you tons of peace. We can all recover and become our true selves. Our “freedom and healing” is within us. When we seek, we find- and sometimes we have to travel down lots of roads to find it. But it’s always there, within us, not “out there”, in any church or guru. Take good care. I appreciated what you shared.
I attended Liberty Baptist College changed around 1985 to Liberty University from 1980 to 1985. Jerry Falwell Sr. had all kind of problems. Don't forget the problems that Jerry Falwell Jr. experienced in Miami.
@@HowardJohnson-r3f oh yeah, Jr was a real piece of work too.
I had second and third cousins who went to Liberty and the tales they told made me realise it was and still is, a Christian madrassa.
At my Fellowship group in the 1970s, Francis Schaeffer could do no wrong; he was a living prophet. Even back then I had the faintest inkling that something wasn't right; but it took me several years to work through it all and come out a happy atheist, pro-choice and ally to my LGBTQ+ friends and colleagues. I have immense respect for Frank Schaeffer, for the long and difficult journey that he has taken, and the great work he has done to share his message.
@@Maclabhruinn great point. Frank has indeed gone through a lot, and given up a lot, to be where he is today.
@@dismantlingdoctrinethat tells you everything you need to know.. that's very sad. God loves you why would you turn your back on him.. We all have a God-shaped void, that we try to fill with counterfeits that only Jesus Christ can fill.. he wants a relationship and fellowship with us. He loves us and wants to spend eternity in heaven with us. We need to be sorry to God for what the Bible says is sin. Only once we realize we're lost can we be saved by trusting and the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He shed his blood for us taking our sins upon him, and he gives us his righteousness when we put our trust in his finished work on the cross, asking him to forgive us and save our souls from hell.
@@oshea2300 don’t waste your breath with your Christian message. Like a typical cult member, you’re using loaded language that signifies nothing.
@@oshea2300 You're not proving anything. You're just restating a standard appeal to Christain doctrine that we've all heard a thousand times. I'm not going to suddenly think, on the thousandth hearing: oh yeah, wow, Jesus shed his blood for me. Even that claim raises so many questions: why can't God just say "your sins are forgiven" and leave it at that. Jesus did that in the Gospels, forgave since on the spot. Why all this palaver with being executed by the Romans, just to forgive sin? And so on ... all you're really doing is saying "I believe in a god so you should, too".
It still isn't the place for the Church to become involved in 'Secular Affairs' and by doing so not only weakens the faith but causes division...which is never good for God or Country.
Yeah just let the beast takeover...
Absolutely.
Trying to do the Lord’s work by the power of the flesh, teaming up with the things of the world to bring in the Kingdom of God…
Not a good idea…
This is the FINAL SCHISM for Protestants. It is the culmination of the 200-year-old Jesuit plot to destroy the 500-year-old Reformation with 1,000 denominations with wildly divergent Dogmas. The Pope will be crowned Vicarius Dei (substitute God) of the One World Religion at the Great Re-Set on 09/23/26, and will immediately grant all power and authority to the NEON GAUD -- the Light Bearer of pure logic -- the abomination of our desolation. Final judgement is set for 10/10/26, Daniel 7: 9-14
Seek the peace of the city. By living in imitation of Christ.
I have such heavy reaction to this. I grew up in an environment were these guys were heros of the faith in modern times. Over time I’ve come to see them as a seed of destruction, of the country and the church. Interestingly my renunciation of the “evangelical” label has strengthened my faith in Christ. All this stuff was actually a hinderance to following Jesus. I am saddened when I hear of those who also gave up the faith when they turned on evangelicalism.
@@gregzoller9003 pointing out hypocrisy isn’t a bad thing, even if it’s done by an exvangelical like Frank.
I believe deconstruction, deconstructing one’s faith, is an important step towards enlightenment. Some will strip away all the man-made extras, like the invention of hell by the early Catholic Church, and find what’s important for them again, like following Jesus. Others will still follow Jesus’ teachings, or at least the intended spirit of those and his parables, but walk away from organized religion. Neither is right and neither is wrong.
As for me, raised in a good church, I am thankful for what I’ve learned through deep study, probably more than most church-goers,and now, in my 80s, I no longer want organized religion. I can still admire much of the good some local churches do, while wanting no part of the larger « church ». I suspect millions feel the same way, but are too afraid or too pressured by family and friends to admit it.
@@LovesLakes I admire that! Sounds like an unbelievable journey.
@@dismantlingdoctrine Thank you. My husband and I began this journey over thirty years ago, thanks to an enlightened minister who introduced us to the late Bishop Spong. We actually heard him ( and others, like Borg) in person a few times.
My spouse has done most of the deep study and led several church study groups over the years. Even though we no longer attend church, we haven’t officially broken the ties, and our congregation is asking for more! The fact we’re in a small village, with a small congregation( one of three) and people are open to this progressive thinking, makes that even more special, I think.
Vile creatures, sums it up.
So sad to see that so many good people have fallen for the hucksters line to support their search for power.
@@dougdellwo3274 just look at the cult of Trump!
I agree with you. It was my point too. I really enjoy Frank Schaeffer's perspective. He seems to be a man with integrity.
@@dougdellwo3274 he’s lived the life, indeed.
One of the understudied and cloistered mysteries of the Evangelistic movement in the US during the 70's and 80's is the Shepherding Movement. Many crazy stories there! This ridiculousness still goes on today.
@@TimothyChilton-ir2ln true. I’ve researched this a bit. Very cult-like movement from what I’ve read.
The moral majority was neither moral nor the majority.
@@godfreycarmichael true, but Falwell sure sold that vision successfully!
@@dismantlingdoctrine You are absolutely right about that. No question.
@@godfreycarmichael amazing how grifters like him are able to convince so many gullible people.
“When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.” Prov. 29:2
I read your book, "Sham Pearls before Real Swine," in college around 1993 and grew up listening to Steve Camp who has a song, "Bad News for the Modern Man" that references you. I also heard you speak during a Petra concert, I believe. I was staunchly anti-abortion. But I really didn't know better. Lost my faith in 1994, and the struggle for me has been how to honor my spouse's continued belief without totally destroying myself. It's been very difficult.
@@jithel7948 I hear you. Having a partner who is still a believer can be extremely difficult. I know of several people who are struggling to make their relationships work in these kinds of circumstances, and it’s hard to do. You have my sympathy.
Some find that they were NEVER Born Again BY EXPERIENCE but by just following a formula, and then attempting to live by such formula, thus it's not deconstruction but a coming to a reality that they NEVER had what they were told or were convinced that they had
If you truly lost your faith, you may not have been truly saved to start with. You need to pray and truly seek God's wisdom and examine yourself and make sure you are truly in salvation.
@@leechjim8023 I’ve heard that charge numerous times. I was a true believer, like Frank, faithfully serving God as a pastor and Bible college teacher for more than 20 years.
@@REVNUMANEWBERN in my case I certainly was. I tried everything I could do, my entire adult life, to make Christianity work for me. Until it didn’t.
Thank you! This is a wonderful view of life rather than the robots Christians playing fallow the leader like Lemming falling off the cliff.
I, as a Catholic, stayed at French L'Abri for two months in 1975. Twice weekly a dozen or so of us travelled to Swiss L'Abri for services and events. I met Francis Schaeffer and heard Udo Middleman and Os Guinness speak. A very interesting and formative time in my life as I was 20 yrs. old with a questioning, philosophical mind. Would like to meet Frank Schaeffer. I had heard of him then and saw his photo in a book I purchased there.
@@ichthus1890 it certainly does sound like it was a great experience. L’Abri was definitely ahead of its time as compared to most evangelical movements back then.
@@dismantlingdoctrine I stayed Catholic; Francis Schaeffer was wrong; Peter and Paul really did move to Rome, as secular history recounts. Pope Francis, however, is a completely different challenge in my view. I'm not fundamentalist, as Frank would, I think say, just Bible and tradition believing. And, I would add, any objective, informed account of the current state of world affairs affirms this. Don't plug me into a political genre. Let's be wiser than that.
@@ichthus1890 I wasn’t aware I was doing that!
So my parents would leave me with these ultra religious people when they had to travel overseas. One time, when I was older, my sister was not with me as she was allowed to stay with a friend. They took me out to Lynchburg and Falwell "saved" me at the age of 7. They really coerced it out of me. My mother was horrified when mail started come to me from them. I'm happy to say the "saving" never took.
@@hattree you’re fortunate! For so many of us, though, it did “take”…and then took decades to get out!
Speaking out against sin and rebuking it doesn't make anyone vile . Sin and it's commission is vile .
@@ronbyrd1616 Frank is certainly speaking out against it!
Replace 'sin' with 'hurting others' and I'd agree with you.
U seem to want to defend the hucksters. You may be having a hard time getting your head around what absolute pricks people like falwell sr are
@@monicadaniels784 Sin "hurts" God .
@@ronbyrd1616 I didn't think anything could hurt God?
I left the faith around the time Falwell et al were getting a lot of ink. Not directly cause and effect, but his schtick was part of the evangelical subculture with which I became increasingly disenchanted.
@@stephenrichie4646 makes sense to me. If that’s what Christianity is…then I’m out too!
Even when I was a Christian I never liked Jerry Falwell.
@@danmiller6462 same here. There was definitely something off about the man,
Blessed is he that made it through 80s/90s American showbiz, profit generating, leaven heavy evangelicalism with his faith in Christ in tact.
Many who believe they left Christianity actually moved from one level of unbelief to another.
In the midst of all the schlock that passes for Christianity, Jesus knows and saves those who believe Him! And renounce the big show.
@@unc1589 were they ever saved to begin with?
They rejected the pharicees.
@@dw3403 they?
@dismantlingdoctrine
People who couldn't tolerate the Jerry fallwells. The Kenneth Copelands. The Jan with the pink hair that would squirt tears with her mascara running begging for money so she could send barbies with a tag saying Jesus loves you to children in countries that needed food and medical help.
Seems Frank has created his own private oblivion …
@@JohnJSteinbeck and one joined by tens of thousands of exvangelicals like me.
Have you not all thrown the baby out with the bathwater?
Oily character is a great description these terrible people. Oliver Gantry was a movie that described these people!
Elmer Gantry, but I agree.
There seems to be a large number of evangelicals that are susceptible to con artists. More so than average people.
@@jasonkinzie8835 exactly. Look how many are sucked into QAnon for example.
It's about faith. They teach it as believing without question not knowing what the real faith is.
That God is love.
I am so glad so many left those puffed up self righteous blow hards. We would have no chance of getting rid of the trump project 2025 freaks. There are too many as it is.
It’s interesting listening to this since I was brought up in an extended fundamentalist evangelical family (Baptist and Plymouth Brethren) and my personal journey away and out of that world started when as a teenager when the late Jerry Falwell Snr came as a guest preacher in our Baptist church.
Even as an impossibly naive teenager (we did not have TV in our house as my parents considered it as ‘a tool of the devil’), I could tell that this famous Christian leader was full of anger & hate and repellent. At least three times during his sermon he went into a rant about gays. Now homosexuality was not an issue on the radar in my small city and we all wondered what he was on about - but what ever it was this strange man was clearly obsessed by it. Looking back on it now as an adult in my 60’s its clear this was not a sermon but a Republican party political broadcast.
So similar to my own story! I was raised in a fundamentalist home too. No TV, no rock music, etc. The Moral Majority came out in 1979 and my pastor in Seattle was influenced by Falwell Sr.
Now you go on rants yourself, hypocrite. Read what you wrote and swap out a few common and proper nouns.
@ yawn
Falwell was an absolute toad. His son is horrible too. They have a lot in common with Trump . Grifters extraordinaire .
@@scottprice4813 No surprise that Jr was one of the first evangelical leaders to endorse Trump!
Mr Schaeffer was Orthodox Christian at one time . Has he left the Orthodox Church?
@@richardgreiner9264 I’m not sure about that. As far as I know he’s still involved with it, but I could be wrong!
@@dismantlingdoctrinethank you .
They were neither moral nor a majority!
It's rare to hear about how the evangelicals were ambivalent or even supported Roe v Wade at first.
@@jsmall10671 but it’s true! It wasn’t until Paul Weyrich convinced Falwell that abortion could rally evangelicals that it even became a thing.
He who is perfect cast the first stone. Be judged as you have judged others. Shall I keep going?
Keep going quoting Bible verses to prove...what exactly?
God's judgement is always just. No one is ever falsely accused and mercy often proffered. BY the same measure that you use to judge others, so shall you also be judged by God. Project 2025 is the FINAL SCHISM for Protestantism. And that's the culmination of the 200-year-old Jesuit plot to destroy the 500-year-old Reformation. Hundreds of millions deceived by False Prophets. Matthew 24: 24.
@@dismantlingdoctrine To refute the contention that Frank was never a true believer.
3 weeks ago
@jertexjertex7880 who, Frank? Was he never a true believer then?
Reply
@nobodyknows4590
3 weeks ago
@dismantlingdoctrine No, he was not.
If Frank Schaeffer said the sun came up this morning, I'd look out the window to make sure he was telling the truth.
@@citizenken7069 you don’t believe him?
@@dismantlingdoctrine He's a confirmed liar. Why should i believe him?
@@citizenken7069 how is he a confirmed liar exactly?
@@dismantlingdoctrine He claims his father, the late Francis Schaeffer, called for violent overthrow of the U.S. government. Show me (with documentation) where Francis Schaeffer ever said any such thing.
@@citizenken7069 at no point in this video does Frank make such a statement. What exactly is your agenda? To prove Frank wrong on whatever point, and then conclude..what exactly?
1 John 2:19 - "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us."
@@jertexjertex7880 who, Frank? Was he never a true believer then?
@@dismantlingdoctrineNo, he was not.
@@nobodyknows4590 if that's the case, then neither was I...but both Frank and I served God faithfully for decades. How do you account for our track record as believers?
@@dismantlingdoctrine A decade is a blink of the eye in God's time. You and he tried to be faithful to God for a little while. It wasn't real for Frank, obviously. Hope it is for you. But the fact remains, we are all called but few get into the Kingdom of Heaven.
@@nobodyknows4590 are you a Calvinist? I was a seriously committed Christian for my entire life. Former pastor and Bible college teacher. You can’t say that I wasn’t a Christian.
Disliking the dismemberment of a child in its mother's womb is spreading hate? What amazing contortion of logic.
@@Redbaron_sites whose logic, Frank’s?
What does Frank make of his father’s body of teaching? How did he ‘deconstruct’ that? That is Christianity at its intellectual and spiritual beast.
@@Billybo-22 find out in his own words! We talked about this very thing a few years ago.
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1199559501?i=1000503128114
I was a fundy. Now a Buddhist😅
@@j.d.leslie8458 good for you! I hope it works for you.
I don't doubt any De-constructionist's genuine sincerity when they say they tried everything they could do. I know Ex-believers who were on fire for jesus. My problem is understanding the starting point from where they thought they were christians.
I know this sort of thing up close and personal because I have a sibling like that. Life's circumstances made her question her faith and turn sour on it. But here's the difference, I knew she never really was the whole ten years she played the game so perfectly. I asked her why she left, and she said, 'There's no proof.' I asked her why then did she 'believe'? She too thinks she was the real article; a bonafide christian believer.
All de-constructionists must maintain that argument to be relevant to each other. But it cannot be explained to you or any of the others what your problem is, because you are incapable of receiving it. That is what I realize. I'm never surprised when someone falls away. I'm more surprised they ever believed. How does a person believe in anything without in your face evidence? But people think faith is blind and that's what makes it faith. That ain't faith. Then after they fall away they begin to gather the evidence for why it's silly and stupid to believe in such things that can't be proven.
Give me your christian testimony as to why you think you ever were and not merely self-deceived. And I know you will never convince me you had anything beyond a christian flavored religion as dead and useless as the rest. I look at you this way: since I know you never were, it means the open possibility that someday you might be.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. In my case, all I can say is that you'd struggle to find a more dedicated Christian than me. I was a pastor and Bible college teacher for more than 20 years. I did a bachelor's degree, 2 master's degree, and a PhD in OT/preaching. In my new book, "Not So Shiny Not So Happy People," you'll encounter my story of growing up Christian and seeking to serve and love God with all my heart for virtually all my life. It's available on Amazon if you want to check it out.
The thing that's difficult for me to understand is why or how the son of Francis Schaeffer couldn't see through the Jerry Falwell types from the get-go. I come from that period of time and if a Jerry Falwell type had come around us, we would have laughed at him. I know, not a very Christian response, perhaps, but we would have seen right through him. Why couldn't the son of one of the most insightful Christian teachers of that time not understand where these guys were going wrong?
@@CSUnger in our podcast we discussed this. At the time, Frank was trying to promote the film series about abortion and major influencers like Falwell helped he and his father get it off the ground. Somewhat of a transactional relationship I think.
That’s probably where they went wrong. Getting into the peripheral things of the Faith instead of developing Faith itself. It looks like and smells like Faith but it’s at best, a low view of Faith. I noted your response to another comment on this thread where you stated that you, like Frank Schaefer, were a “true believer” ( your words) I don’t doubt that for a second, but where I’ve seen countless “true believers” go wrong is that they never advance to Faith. They stay at “belief” and other things come in and eventually they find reasons to either abandon their belief entirely or they make up their own distorted version of it.
@@CSUnger well, I was a truly saved Christian. I’m a former pastor and Bible college teacher of more than 20 years. I faithfully served God and the church my entire life…until I walked away from it all in the end. My book, “Not So Shiny Not So Happy People,” describes my journey.
I looked up the book on Amazon. I’m going to purchase it and read it and get back to you, if that’s alright with you. I have to tell you, though, the name Bill Gothard doesn’t give me much confidence that what you were involved with was true Christianity, but I’ll read it. My experience has been that most of what goes by the name “Christianity” is a watered down version of the real thing.?
@@CSUnger I’ll let you be the judge. Just because I use his name doesn’t mean I followed his teachings later in life. I was raised in it, however, with parents who attended his seminars and were heavily involved in his work.
We all have a God-shaped void, that we try to fill with counterfeits that only Jesus Christ can fill.. he wants a relationship and fellowship with us. He loves us and wants to spend eternity in heaven with us. We need to be sorry to God for what the Bible says is sin. Only once we realize we're lost can we be saved by trusting and the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He shed his blood for us taking our sins upon him, and he gives us his righteousness when we put our trust in his finished work on the cross, asking him to forgive us and save our souls from hell.
@@oshea2300 good try preaching to me with Christian platitudes. I was an evangelical pastor for decades and preached the same message you’re laying on me now. Believe me, it’s loaded language that is totally ineffective.
There is a great deal wrong with modern Christianity (as well as historical Christianity). We should never underestimate the power of self-deception, ego, pride, and impure motives. That said, not even the most sincere Christians are immune, but if you judge Christ based on the excesses of the notably imperfect, you are sure to arrive at an imperfect conclusion.
I am also notably imperfect, and so are all my Christian acquaintances. But God help us, we wish to be more compassionate, sober-minded, loving, sincere, genuine followers of Christ. We have this desire because of God's mighty work in our hearts. My heart breaks over failures of those who have poorly represented Christ, just as it does over my own failures. Yet, our failures don't disprove the truth of the gospel. Redemption is still the goal of Christ's finished work, and God is pleading with you through His word and his people to be reconciled.
@@rickbailey7450 I hear you. Problem is: which Jesus? Which gospel accurately portrays the "true"Jesus?
@@dismantlingdoctrine I'm hoping this is a sincere reply. Your reply spawns other questions. Are you referring to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John? Are you referring to the many non-cannonized (spurious) accounts that cropped up in church history? Are you asking about modern(ish) versions proposed by philosophers of more recent days? "The gospel" I refer to is the same gospel referenced in all of the Apostle Paul's letters, and the four mentioned above. But, I'm thinking that you must have known that's what I meant. Are you trying to make a different point?
@@rickbailey7450 the 4 gospels, yes. Scholars have long agreed that there are significant differences, variations and contradictions between them. This inevitably leads to questions about their reliability and portrayal of Jesus the character in the narrative.
Grifters gonna grift.
@@dermagrafa classic Falwell. Absolute king of fundamentalist grifters.
Interesting. I didn't know Billy Graham and Christianity today were pro-choice back in the day
Good observation, it's an oxymoron belief system that fuels flames of selfishness. The comparison of because one can stand in a garage and call themselves a car doesn't make them a car. Likewise, all baptized Christians have to ask themselves, knowing of their own personal Judgement day these same questions of the Holy Innocents and how they defend life inside the womb until natural death, outside the womb. Have a blessed life.
Pool Boy University
@@krishess8017 that’s the one
Jerry Fell-well. The Moral Majority is neither. Franky frankly make à biblical shipwreck of his life. Romans 15:4.
Yeah, that can happen to you when you base your faith on people instead of God.
@@PapaBear-k4k or...walk away when God lets you down?
@@dismantlingdoctrine Is it possible for God to let you down?
@@PapaBear-k4k I feel that he definitely did. I spent my whole life serving God only to realise that he is both silent and invisible. I walked away in the end.
@@dismantlingdoctrine You believe in God, but feel he's let you down so you refuse to worship him?
@@PapaBear-k4k no I don’t believe in God. But I spent my entire life trying to serve and obey that God, but finally had to admit that he doesn’t exist.
Scrubbing frank’s stuff is like that the vid of trump saying he would go republican is he ever went political. He would do that because he says those voters are really dumb. I remember that vid but its been gone for many yrs
@@clarkpalace I’m trying to understand your point here. Are you pro or anti what Frank is saying?
beware of false prophets..
Who's the false one? Frank Schaeffer or Jerry Falwell?
ALL of the living Prophets on Christian Network TV and in Pentecostalism and New Apostolic Reformation are FALSE PROPHETS. ALL OF THEM. And OVER 93% of men and women are nearly deaf and blind spiritually. As in the days of Noah. If you seek a place to make your stand -- stand with the church of brotherly love -- Revelation 3: 6-12. We keep Jesus' commandments -- Matthew 22: 36-40, and have the "little Strength" of the Rock -- Matthew 16: 17-18.
See also: Matthew 6: 5-8
@@grimlund Falwell
@@monicadaniels784 Now after I left this cult I see these fundamentalists as the real christians. These kind of people are the ones who goes in 200%. They believe that the Bible is inerrant and literally true. They are the real shit.
And they are both evil and insane.
Not sure where you got that info about Billy Graham but it is incorrect.
@@onmountaintime5637 what information?
@@dismantlingdoctrine Frank says BG was pro choice. He was never pro choice.
@@onmountaintime5637 I think he actually was. Lots of evangelical leaders were prior to Roe v Wade.
@@dismantlingdoctrineonly if you call cases of rape or incest pro choice. That’s why they say he was pro choice. He did say in those cases it may be allowed.
@@onmountaintime5637 even at that, it’s a marked difference from the evangelicals of today.
Frankie has been all over the map, as a son of famous parents. His "brand" now is to criticize the church. Redundant and a bit boring at this point?
@@billmayo1094 not unless the church needs criticism. Which it does, in spades. For one thing: the evangelical Trump support?
Biblical christianity is true. Why would so many yearn for it? TH-cam has given a place where there is a connection of believers. Including iran where there is the fastest church growth.
@@gospeljoy5713 how is it true exactly? Church growth alone isn’t proof positive.
Iron not I ran
With all due respect, I disagree. Megachurch pastors are not evangelicals by definition. Evangelical means to teach the gospel.
It’s hard for Pharisee to be evangelical. They are too busy lining there pocket. These are companies. They’re not churches.
@@RandomDad2024 unfortunately the term “evangelical” has come to symbolise the greater Christian movement. Evangelicals are technically less strident fundamentalists, as they disagreed with some of their more militant stances back in the 1940s-50s. They’re more centrist than fundamentalists.
Your religion shall change from the mere intellectual belief in traditional authority to the actual experience of that living faith which is able to grasp the reality of God and all that relates to the divine spirit of the Father. The religion of the mind ties you hopelessly to the past; the religion of the spirit consists in progressive revelation and ever beckons you on toward higher and holier achievements in spiritual ideals and eternal realities. from Paper 155.6 of The Urantia Book
@@humboldthammer I’ve never heard of it…
This guy is slandering Dr. Falwell.
@@newtonbrook how so?
As the brilliant Christopher Hitchens wrote in his wonderful book, "god is not great, Religion Poisons Everything" the people and organizations you speak of are proof of his thesis.
@@robertmitchell2178 so true. Hitchens gives ample evidence of his thesis in that excellent book!
@@robertmitchell2178 Hitchens was awesome.
Atheists think inside a box but there is a spirit world.
gawd I fucking hate what religion does to people
@@scottseabock5281 to people like Falwell? He was a real piece of work.
Yes it really helps the faith look sour . the wrong sinful hipocrites get away with as much as the Honest who get screwed over. Praying to solve the promise that never happened needs to prevail in order for it to work at all.
@ praying to whom?
I am curious how you differentiate an evangelical, fundamentalist, or a mainstreamer. I am a Christian. I absolutely despise both fundies and evangelicals with a purple passion. I don't wear my faith on my sleeve or force it on others. I have a live and let live policy on matters of faith. If anyone accuses me of not being Christian; that person is having hell to pay.
I voted for Donald Trump. Does that make me a monster?
No, it doesn't make you a monster. But it does support a whole administration that is deeply corruption and seemingly dedicated to tearing down American democracy. There's a definite difference between fundamentalist and evangelical but increasingly it's becoming harder to distinguish.
@@dismantlingdoctrine Just replying to you without providing counterpoint and counterclaim. That will only add fuel to the towering inferno raging in your belly. I have met people who have done business with him. None of them have a negative thing to say about him. Where is YOUR evidence he is corrupt. Where is evidence that provides evidence he is a Nazi.
By the way how do you know he is tearing down democracy? If anyone tried to destroy our Constitutional rights it was Bush Obama and Biden. Has he personally tried to deplatform you or your colleagues? Has he used the courts to shut you off? The man has been out of office for two years. Get over yourself. No one here is that important.
I have met many people on the same level of Jerry Fallwell, Joel Osteen. I am not impressed either. Even though it has been proven false, it wouldn't surprise me if you still believe the Russia hoax.
@@dismantlingdoctrine Where is your evidence of corruption? I disagree there is a difference fine line between evangelical and fundamentalist. It is obvious that you have gotten yourself wrapped up in the epidemic Just because Evangelicals and Fundies are behind Donald Trump just adds fuel to the hatred burning in you.
You say you are a "Christian" which I will take at face value, though that can mean many different things in our culture. The next thing you say however is that you "absolutely despise with a passion" other Christians that you condemn and label as "fundies and evangelicals" Uh, that does not really sound like a follower of Jesus to me. Instead it reminds me of one of the Lord's parables:
Luke 18:9 "Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men-extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
You go on to talk about "having hell to pay." Is hell just a colorful figure of speech to you or do you believe there actually is such a destination? If you did, I would think you would be less antagonistic to sharing your faith with others.
SO it appears Mr. Schaeffer was NEVER actually Born Again BY EXPERIENCE, but was one of those that has just made a mental acceptance of a superficial belief system.
@@REVNUMANEWBERN I seriously doubt that. He, just like me, was a true and dedicated believer.
His last statement is pure IGNORANCE. THE very name Christian means a representative follower of Christ. We are called to be Ambassadors of the Christian theology of life. A proactive posture of rescuing the unsaved is the highest goal of the believer next to demonstrating christlike character. This is a man who is deep in self deception of the truth he has been given.
@@paulenzor6993 who, Frank? I’d say that most Christians today barely resemble the Jesus of the Gospels. And, which Jesus? Which Gospel is the most accurate, since they contradict each other? Pick a Jesus from at least one, then tell me how you resemble that one.
Billy Graham was pro choice? 😂😂😂
Delusional much Frank?
@@fakeyououtdotcom2409 he wasn’t opposed to abortion, just like a great many evangelical leaders, until it became a thing.
@@dismantlingdoctrine I trust you wouldn't expect me to believe that without indisputable evidence. So, is there a record of him saying that or writing it that you can point me to?
@@fakeyououtdotcom2409 see the article by Randall Balmer on the true origins of the Christian Right. Also this quote by Billy Graham on Larry King in 1988 shows that he wasn’t completely “pro-life.” He said: “I would be for abortion in violent rape. I’m against abortion. I take the same stand that the Pope takes. I’m against abortion except in cases of rape and in cases and violent rape I would say, and then in cases where the mother’s life is in danger.”
@@dismantlingdoctrine I appreciate the straight forward answer, and in keeping with that tone...saying Billy Graham is pro choice, however, is a lie.
@@fakeyououtdotcom2409 I didn’t say he was pro-choice, just that he wasn’t entirely opposed to abortion-like so many evangelical leaders were back in the day, like Criswell and even Falwell.. Their position has radically changed since then.