Wow ... I felt that ... I can't remember not believing in Jesus He was always there from my earliest memory He was with me... But as a 5th generation Morman on my Mother's side who also attended a little Country Church with my Grandma on my Father's side , I felt so torn and hurt by religion that one day I got a Red Letter KJV Bible You know with Jesus Words written in red and stopped reading anything but His Words for several years and reconnected with that Simple Pure Relationship I had with Him as a Child and have not let anything sway me since. He is " the Lens " with which I gauge all Truth by . His Word and His Love really is " a lamp to my feet " -
Mr. Schaeffer is truly an enlightened messenger for these crazy times and unchecked religious bullying and power by the Evangelicals. I listen to my heart and it is saying "what would Jesus do" and this is exactly what needs to be brought out of the dark manipulations of Religious leaders.
Yeah - I’ve always felt like this. Even when I was an ‘atheist’ , then when I was drawn to Christianity. Then too when I ‘fell’ out with the church and the people in there. And so it continues. I don’t actually like the bible. But I do still ‘love’ Jesus and try to do as he did. I still have a faith. Hope that make sense to anyone who reads my comment
It makes perfect sense. The messenger message often is subjected by confirmation bias so make sure your bias falls into the compassion, empathy, and purity of intention jesus taught. And, this is coming from an atheist
Hahaha. There lies ur problem sir. If u don't like the Bible and profess to love rather Jesus is a dicotmy of sorts. Bible is about God The Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. God in his unity cannot be broken by a mere blip in time. Go read gospel according to John chapter 1. And 1-3John. Do a little research on The Word. In English and Greek. It's not difficult..
He sees it like I do. It is NOT about individual verses. It is about the Bible as a whole. This means even looking into books some claim are forbidden or lost to form the clearest picture possible. Also reading the Bible as Christ did is probably the best way to gain understanding. One thing to add. Scripture claims Jesus died for our sins. But what were the true reasons for him being executed (and those like him)? It was because he stood against authority and the religious leaders of the time. And everything those institutions stood for. Today's Christian, just go with the flow, without really understanding what a leap of faith is.
@@biffalobull2335 So let me get your comment straight. The Crusades were condoned by Christian scriptures. The Inquisitions were condoned by Christian scriptures. Slavery - even to this day - was/is condoned by Christian scriptures. Are you telling this world wide audience that Jesus taught such love and compassion to our neighbor as this? If so, then you must subscribe to the beliefs that the world is flat and that the sun revolves around the earth.
@@mepkin9449 Christ fulfilled the moral law. He fulfilled prophecy in the OT. He said to the Pharisees of His day that they searched the Scriptures, but the Scriptures were speaking of Him Christ and the Scriptures are never at odds. Marcus Borg is a fool for saying so Your exegesis wouldn’t pass in even the thinnest of online seminaries
@@biffalobull2335 Interesting you call Borg a “fool”. And, you judge me the same way! You are very judgmental. So, stand in the corner with your truth. BTW, did you even bother to listen to this guy? He literally said, “Jesus preempts (period)”.Go, stand in the corner with your truth. Conversation is over. Nothing more than a p....g match for you.
Frank Schaeffer is right. Actually, the term Christian means to be Christ like, but the fundamentalists are not Christ like. Many of these people are arrogant and self righteous moralists. Lecturing those who do not agree with them, and believe in something different than what they believe. Whatever happened to do unto others, as you would have them do unto you ?
This was very good food for thought. I agree with you for sure on a TH-cam discussing why "white evangelicaks" support trump. I was sorry to hear another interview unbecoming language of someone following Jesus as briefly discussed here. If we want to honor Him, we want to reflect that...look up to, not join in with the attitudes of the world. You know that, i think. I think you are still working through the confusion of your childhood. I am 72, so have done thzt a lot, too. I am grateful that you actually said what i have figured out, too, about trump and his pushers. I keep saying, too, that you cannot be both a Bible believing Christian and a trump follower. Yes, my life has been threatened by so called Christians. I have read/studied Revelation and other Books and that is why when i heard trump in all his incredible "boasting," that i knew he was following an antiChrist road! Personally, i think there is some truth to the first book ing Left Behind. I witnessed something in a church board meet very similar to one of those scenes. No one said a word when the minutes were changed to a complete lie of events. I would imagine you have seen that, too. I tried to warn others about then and trump. It was an incredible confusing frenzy around here. Normally kindly people became openly gun carriers, and were rude, demanding, and mouthy...pushy, and heartless. Like you see at labor strikes...not civil any longer. It is quite possible that these fake christians are going to actually usher in the antichrist! Ha! It fits, actually. I am so sorry that you were made to be a part of this goofy world of radicals who made up their own god and interpretation, but do not, please, do not throw out the good and Truth with their perversion. Maybe they were/are sincere, but so were the pharisees. You still love them as family and friends, though deluded. It took me a while to get this part. Now I just carefully throw out a few thoughts and do not get upset anymore, though inside, i weep. I pray that they will just think it over. The militant part became very obvious lately here and was frightening, really. My friends and beloved pastor think i am deluded...that i do not get it, however, i see that the Holy Spirit and Fruits don't change. When you realize this thinking is wrong, not Biblical, it creates, as you know, a cognitive dissonance that drives you to pure delusion to justify, or drives you to jump off, or makes you just nuts! When you jump, you can go nowhere but down...or you can look for Truth. I think you are still looking. Keep going. I do not understand the seeming confusion between what Paul said in that instance about women, because he worked with them and extoled them for their work, too. He recognized their leadership and phophetic gifts, in an orderly way. No one contradicted Christ. We can only speculate what was behind some of what he wrote. But he would not have intentionally contradicted Christ, i think we can agree, yes? If we look to all of Scripture, we do see an overall harmony with what Christ actually said and did. We actually see prophecy incredibly fulfilled, and Christ discussing Scripture passages explaining them. The disharmony, then we realize, is in our own perception...the window we look through either reveals or confuses what is actually there. No where do we see from The Lord, and not from Jesus, specifically, that we are to take over a pagan government to usher in Christ or a rapture. People have misinterpreted and put their own slant on Biblical teaching to create their own god go serve their own purposes. But seeing this happening helps me understand Revelation in a whole new way, as sad as it is. I pray that you will keep searching. Read it again from the heart...the Heart of God. Grant mercy and forgiveness to weak humans and continue in the love that i see in you. God bless you bunches. Thank you for your honesty.
Just a note. The anti women Timothy letters are, like 2nd Peter, regarded by the majority of Christian historians as not having been written by Paul or his disciples at all or Peter. They are placed somewhere in the 2nd century as from 120 to 140 ce. The Greek is 2nd century and these letters do not reflect the teachings of Paul or Jesus who elevated women to an equal place with men. The reality is they were placed in the Bible by the Roman church which begun to reflect the Greek idea of the patriarchy infused in the Greek Roman culture through the anti women teachings of Aristotle. The ancients Jews and early Christians regarded women as fonts of wisdom appreciated for their gifts. When merchants left their homes to travel, it was the women who ran the family business and made decisions. Those fraudulent Timothy letters should be thrown out of the Bible.
Another note. The Rapture is not a biblical doctrine and existed no where in Christianity until the 1840s when a woman in darbys Plymouth brethren groups went into a trance and came out of it, saying I had a new revelation from the Lord he’s taking us out before the tribulation. It was the most written against doctrine of the day, it only became prominent in the evangelical church sometime in the 1950s. this is an insult to Christian throughout the world who are in persecution right now. Revelation is a coded book written by John to uplift persecuted Christians during the time of Nero. The Christians of that day understood the symbols and allegories in that book. John wasn’t about to come out directly against Rome and Nero and risk being killed. Nero name in Hebrew, where each letter has a numerical significance, is 666 in Greek, its 626. It is a common form of Jewish apocryphal literature, and it’s not meant to be taken as some kind of future predictions. The antichrist being Nero was a dictator. It was warning us that dictators are the antichrist. The fact that Christians are following an antichrist figure like Trump shows how ignorant they are of what the Bible really says in context.
Big (but correct) departure from Francis, his father, who subscribed to "propositional revelation" which depended on verbal inspiration. Many parts of the NT was heavily influenced by the inability of the writers, including Paul, to free themselves of the influence of Jewish religion and culture, especially social pressure of their time (c.f. Paul criticisms of Peter and the Judaisers). Proper exegesis of the NT requires us to "de-Semiticise" it first in order to get at the true teachings of Jesus and understand what He actually did. Frank is right about starting with Jesus and focussing on what He actually DID, rather than what He was supposed to have taught. (A clue - only one church father Athanasius got it right and Mark was at Alexandria too, and his Gospel is probably the most to the point.) It will surprise many Christians to learn that such an approach will reveal a message of Christianity which is radically different from what the western church has been preaching for the last 2,000 years.
Actually, Paul was radical too! He said there is neither Jew nor Gentile, Neither slave nor free, nor male and female in Christ Jesus, that we were all one. And he meant it on social standing not just in salvation or in some useless soul sense. For example, he ate with the gentiles and treated them on equal social standing with the Jews. He petitioned his friend Philemon to set his slave Onesimus free and made Onesimus the ex-slave a Bishop in the church of Ephesis. He also had female co-workers and church planters who he called not only equal to him in the work that they did but mentioned one of them being an Apostle that surpassed even himself. In regards to marriage in 1 Corinthians, he speaks 16 times about marriage and gives women the exact equal status, rights, and responsibilities as husbands. It is only in four of the six forged letters of Paul that hierarchy between men and women show up. 80 percent of scholars are sure that Ephesians is a forgery, the book that calls the husband head of the wife, and 90 percent are sure that the pastorals 1&2 Timothy, Titus are forgeries, the books that tell women they will be saved through childbearing and supposedly condemn all women to a life of servitude to men because of Eve's sin. I guess even the blood of Jesus was not enough to save women from the stigma of Eve's sin, only Adam's. Someone cleaned Paul up after he was martyred, they Romanized him and sanctioned Roman imperialism through forged documents abusing his name and exploiting his authority, and through interpolation in one of his authentic letters.
Be careful about denouncing 1 Timothy. 1 Timothy 6:6-10 took a stronger stand for social justice and equality than any Feminist or Politically Correct enforcer ever did.
The Books of Peter were omitted from the Christian bible. The reason being was that the church didn't want women to be equal with men. I found one book in the catholic bible, one or two in the gnostic bible, and one in the Catholic library which might be hard to get. What I remember is the woman had to work for it like the men. Being a man I was told to keep my mouth shut.
Amazing how the evangelicals commenting here are so ignorant of his teachings in context. Can you know Jesus without the Old Testament or in interpretation from a western mindset. Yep. If your mind and heart are open. Can you have religious doctrine and dogma shoved down your throat like I did. Yep. And it almost destroyed me spiritually, emotionally and psychologically. And then, I had a spiritual awakening of Christ in me as me that changed me totally and completely. Once you get there, you leave the child teenager stage of doctrine and dogma behind and move onto knowing him who is from the beginning as John puts it. From that point, everything you do is out of love for the beloved, not to gain anything, but out of love. If you don’t grow up and continue to serve in law, you can never know the true freedom that comes from deeply knowing the divine.
This is such a terrible understanding of the New Testament where you determine the meaning of the entire Bible as a modern in the western world and think it’s better than the people that grew up in Jesus’ culture. Even the writings of Jesus come from people who weren’t him. We trust that the people who wrote the things Jesus said didn’t try to “water them down and make them more approachable.” Jesus said very harsh things that I don’t think would jive with young shaeffers new perception of the world. Does postmodern Jesus trump actual Jesus? He makes funny tongue and cheek references, but he makes for a terrible theologian.
A breath of fresh air... thank you Frank. This is a question I have always posed, If you love Jesus as Christians state, why don't you follow him, his life, his words, his example ? Instead you adhere to the political scriptures and dogma of an inherently corrupt and self serving "clergy and church". Set up for political expedience and founded by people who neither knew the real man Jesus or followed his teachings. Simple point, if I were to hurl an unsubstantiated insult at the figure of Jesus, few if any would respond with a cogent rebuttal to put me straight, many would simply hurl ignorant abuse as a form of unintelligent ignorant rebuttal.... reprisal. How many would take the higher road, how many would turn the other cheek ? However, if I made a derogatory remark against the American state or God forbid insulted the flag... a tsunami of abusive comments would result. ....you love the flag more than the great personage of Jesus ? BTW there is more known about the real Jesus in Islam than in Christianity... Listen to Frank, he is a real lover of Christ ( "Christopher" ), a good man. best wishes
He is so messed up that every interview of Frank shrieks of his anger on which he has build his house. It's sad .. pity. He should ask himself is he following the Lord or following his understanding / his anger / his frustration with evangelicals / his biases and twists of culture over scripture. But he would not accept that. He is not the first one to rebel and certainly not the last one. Scripture is permanent. It is an unwavering rock. Ones understanding has to be in submission to it not over it. He is seemingly saying he understands Lord better than the first disciples... Poor chap. Even at the end of his road of life he is not realising. America definitely need a solid dose of persecution when u have deadbeats like him and many others who profess to be Christians in a religious sense but do not understand what is the Church. 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
@Deeps N I genuinely think that you're the messed up one here. You said "America definitely need a solid dose of PERSECUTION when u have deadbeats like him and many others who profess to be Christians in a religious sense but do not understand what is the Church". Basically, you said he's a deadbeat because his interpretation of Jesus and His teaching is different than yours? And you think America need a persecution because of that? Because of different interpretation of the same person (Jesus) and the same book (the Bible). If so, what do you think America deserve for having Moslems, Jews, Buddhists, atheists, etc. in the country? Thank you for revealing that you're a racist without directly proclaiming so.
Franky... 2 minutes in and the mis-representations of truth in your explanation a were obvious. You were taught well so you should know better. First of all, Jesus never claimed to change anything in the OT. He claim to have fulfilled it. He constantly pointed to the OT as speaking of Him, His life, death, and resurrection. This was the clear and consistent testimony of the apostle Paul, who received revelation from Christ Himself. Paul makes this clear in Galatians. There is no other gospel. What you basically said in the two minutes I heard was “the Bible is an imperfect book, but Jesus is perfect, so I’m just gonna go ahead and interpret what I think should be true about Jesus and apply that to how I live my life.” That may seem “groovy,” but it’s nothing but an underhanded approach to set yourself up as an authority over the only reliable testimony we have of the life and death of Jesus, the Bible. Sorry if this seems harsh, but you people need to realize that there isn’t freedom in being “released” from the authority and inerrancy of the Bible, and trying to say you can love Jesus and throw out the only thing God has given us that reliably tells us Who He is, what He has done, and why He has come is to do nothing more than invent your own religion. To imagine someone in your own mind that you admire and call “Jesus” doesn’t make him anymore the real Jesus then you looking yourself in a mirror and saying “you must be Jesus.” Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT prophecies concerning a Messiah, not just for the Jews, but for all who trust Him for salvation from sin and death. He is not a figment of our imaginations, so let’s not make Him so.
The Most High ELOHIM YHWH had an everlasting covenant with the house of Jacob,the 12tribes NOT Esau,how then did Rome get the mandate to edit and manipulate the scriptures by changing names,holidays etc? Can we trust the council's of Nicea 325AD?
Is agreeable what Frank says, about understanding the Bible. We got to look at IT through the lens of JESUS CHRIST. Some of us call it, through CHRIST'S light. And the best way to really understand is to get to know JESUS. And we find the person of CHRIST in the gospel of John. To really understand, we need a personal relationship with CHRIST. CHRIST was never against the LAW of GOD, which is the Torah. THE BOOK that Jews used to live by as their whole center of life, coming from GOD. JESUS said once; Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17 NKJV) The LAW and the Prophets, is the whole old testament. CHRIST came to fulfill THE LAW of GOD in men. When a man is willing to be jointed back to GOD in a personal relationship, through CHRIST. Frank was talking about the women that was busy and was more concerned in the things of the world then to listen to him. And that's what most people, "christians" included, do. If we are going to say something that CHRIST said. Is better if we do it as it was or is reported. What Frank was talking about is in Luke 10:38-42, and it says. Now it happened as they went that He entered a certain village; and a certain woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus' feet and heard His word. But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approach Him and said, "Lord do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me". And Jesus answered and said to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. "But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taking away from her." (Luke 10:38-42 NKJV) If we are going to say something about CHRIST or anyone else for that matter. Is it not better if we put the facts out there, or at least get the story right? In the passage that Frank was talking about, with the woman in it. The passage is illustrating that is up to us to get to know CHRIST. Some people do want to follow JESUS and JESUS only. Which that will be great for those people. And they don't want to take in inconsideration what the apostles learned from JESUS, and especially from Paul. Because Paul didn't know in flesh and blood JESUS like Peter and John did. But if we can understand a little bit about the Bible. We can understand that is not about flesh and blood, is about the spirit. About the person inside of the flesh and blood. Without our soul, our spirit, we our not to the image of GOD. Which that's how GOD created man, to HIS image. Without our soul we're just like animals. All flesh is going to go back to the ground. When Paul said that he didn't let a woman teach, that was because he knew the Torah like no one else. Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees. Meaning, he was an exceptional Pharisees of the LAW. Before he knew CHRIST, and by been that. He knew the LAW or the Torah like no other. The explanation of what Paul said about women is in 1 Timothy 2:8-15, and it says: I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided or gold pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1 Timothy 2:8-15 NKJV) Why did Paul say this? Paul knew the Torah and the Prophets like no other, and Jewish culture and history. If we know and understand the Bible. We know that Paul felt this way, because he was following the order that GOD had given man at creation. Adam was the one in charge of the whole thing at the beginning. But Adam knowing that it was wrong what Eve was about to do. He let her take charge, and because of that they both paid the price and went against GOD'S command. It seems like Frank is doing as many do. He is spreading his own doctrine, and is up to us who to follow. Do you follow JESUS or a man? Just as in Luke 10:38-42, is up to us who to listen to. We are going to follow who or what is in our hearts. Is up to each of us. If anyone is really interested in learning about the WORD of GOD. That one needs to get to know JESUS CHRIST very, very personally. We find JESUS CHRIST in the gospel of John. GOD BLESS
@JOSE EZPARZA "We know that Paul felt this way, because he was following the order that GOD had given man at creation. Adam was the one in charge of the whole thing at the beginning. But Adam knowing that it was wrong what Eve was about to do. He let her take charge, and because of that they both paid the price and went against GOD'S command." You said that God's command that men should be in charge above women should be applied in Paul's time. Should it also be applied in current time? I beg to disagree. Many of God's orders is only applicable in certain times / conditions. Otherwise, why we stop sacrificing animals like the old times? Like what the Moslems still do even in this modern time? What you do is nit-picking the Bible verses. Several verses are supposed to be applied in certain times, the other verses are ruled forever. I don't say you are wrong. What you did is "interpreting" the Bible, like so many people do, like what Frank Schaeffer does. What I disagree is you consider your interpretation is correct and Frank Schaeffer's is not. That's quite an arrogance without base.
Except, as is mentioned earlier, Paul did not write the Timothy letters. They are 2nd cent forgeries. The Greek is 2nd cent, and do not relate to anything than Jesus or Paul taught or any of Paul’s deciples.They treated women as equals with men. For a woman to be under submission to a man is not anything Paul would have agreed to. If anything, both Jesus and Paul lifted women up in status. Do not ever take a historical approach to Jesus and his culture unless you want to have your sacred cows destroyed.
John was a mystic and part of a contemplative group. He was also familiar with Roman and Greek literary ways of writing and teaching. In another’s words, he was extremely intelegent and knew who he was writing to. It is evident from the sayings of Jesus that he was from the more moderate school. Love God, love your neighbor as yourself is the whole of Torah comes straight out of the more liberal rabbinical thought of that time.
"I think Jesus is essentially perfect, but stuck in a flawed book," - So tell us, Frank, what is the source for your view of Jesus's perfection? You keep telling us you believe in Jesus, while casting aspersions on the very source that tells you of His existence.
We all know that. Jesus is perfect. The object of our worship. The other books are lallible because they we re edited and translated by fallable translators one nuanced sentance or theological thought is not from jesus. But man. Stop diefying evwry word in a book that is of mans thoughs and cultural beliefs abbout. Jesus. Understand.
The Bible does tell people about Jesus, but the Christian Church was telling people about Jesus before the Bible ever existed, and has done so consistently since then. Frank is not "casting aspersions" on the Bible. He is simply pointing out that the book has a context and that we are all engaging in some kind of interpretation when we approach it. At least he is being self-aware and honest about how he is doing so, while most people are rather lacking in both of these qualities.
@@iainpattison903 Then it is strange that Jesus does not say this to the healed man who worships him in John 9:38. Jesus is the name above all names. He is above all to be worshipped. And yet he will give preference to the Father (Phil 2:11).
@@JC-sj2pd I disagree-he grew up in a fundamentalist background, and is trying to right, I believe, the wrongs that he helped create with his father Francis Schaeffer and the whole evangelical right like Falwell, Dobson, etc. I also tend to agree that Jesus is what matters and not so much the interpretation of people who didn't know him. I think Frank is right that they were trying to make it palatable to the people of their time, which I understand, but Jesus is above that, so I certainly don't believe all that Paul said. Sometimes in more critical moments, I believe the Protestants worship Paul as much as Jesus.
I disagree. Frank is simply saying it's about Jesus and not Paul and not Peter, etc. They may be profound interpreters, but like Frank, I go back to Jesus.
@@michael0.770 No. You cannot have Christianity and not have the Church, which He Himself set up and onto which the Holy Spirit descended equally onto all Apostles. Schaeffer used to be partnof thet One Church a long time ago. To claim that this doesn't matter, means claiming that Pentecost didn't happen - or worse: wasn't even true. Shaeffer has fa,len victim to neo-Arianism. So sad to see...
Frank is identifying the anarchist who spoke truth to power. And how power has grabbed Jesus as a talisman used to control people and make money. As an atheist, I modeled my life after Jesus call to 'help the least of these.' The big difference is, my Jesus was a philosopher who woke-up to his humanity and had great courage. There are no Gods. Only people making choices and looking for excuses.
But Jesus said he was God, and nothing less. He said that life eternal depends on the acceptance of him as the way, truth and life. So your subjectivism is simply a case of obfuscation and personal convenience.
I admit that I don’t understand his whole “atheist who believes in god” thing. Is he saying that he is comfortable with a certain level of contradiction? Just trying to come up with an eye catching title for his book? Bit of both?
In my brief TH-cam introduction to Frank schaeffer: Old frank schaeffer: orthodoxy is the real thing! New frank schaeffer: certainty is a disease. ....ok.... My response: faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
So old Schaeffer it is then? I've lived on both side. Would I say, I am currently recovering from the idea that certainty is a disease? Yes. I am. Certainty is not a disease. God himself declares that he is the God of truth. Leaving a life without certainty is like being chaff in the wind.
I don’t believe it, either. Paul’s epistles have always created problems for me. Although much of the teachings attributed to Jesus were (and still are, unfortunately) revolutionary, many sayings are just retellings from earlier holy men. Jesus said it was most important to love God and everyone else. I suppose that was just too simple for an already powerful, authoritarian Jewish scholar to comprehend.
Actually, Paul was radical too! He said there is neither Jew nor Gentile, Neither slave nor free, nor male and female in Christ Jesus, that we were all one. And he meant it on social standing not just in salvation or in some useless soul sense like pastors like to say. For example, he ate with the gentiles, removed the Jewish requirement for them to get circumcised, and treated them on equal social standing with the Jews. Paul petitioned his friend Philemon to set his slave Onesimus free because after Onesimus became a believer and got baptized he was now a "brother" according to Paul and part of the body of Christ and should be treated as a brother and no longer a slave. Paul then made Onesimus, the ex-slave, a Bishop in the church of Ephesus after Philemon his ex-owner released him from his bonds. Paul had female co-workers and church planters (10 of which are mentioned in the book of Romans alone!) who he called not only equal to him in the work that they did but mentioned one of them being an Apostle that surpassed even himself! In regards to marriage in 1 Corinthians, the only place where he really speaks of it in his authentic letters, he speaks about it 16 times and goes to great length and care to give wives the exact same equal rights and responsibilities as husbands. He takes great care to equalize the two married partners, and literally, the egalitarian symmetry he proposes for husband and wife is astounding for that day! It is only in four of the six forged letters of Paul that hierarchy between men and women in marriage and ministry show up. The six forged letters are Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, and Titus. 80% of scholars are sure that Ephesians is a forgery. Ephesians calls the husband the "head" of the wife in comparison to that of Christ's rule as head over the Chruch for the first and last time as a single witness in all of scripture! It gives and justifies the husbands unlimited "authority" to that of Christ's. It also enjoins an inappropriate submission towards husbands in EVERYTHING on the shoulders of wives to that of the Church's submission to God. A yoke that no man would dare lift a finger to himself carry as it would be demoralizing to his character and identity as a man to submit to another in everything with no areas of his life left private. It literally makes the marriage one of master and slave! No amount of "love" on the part of the husband can make up for the loss of personal autonomy and integrity that the wife experiences in that context. It actually cheapens the concept of love because it proposes in the minds of husbands the idea that love, and not just any kind of love but the same type of self-love expressed in the idea of loving your neighbor as you love yourself, can be given to their wives separate from the respect and human integrity that comes with a person's right to self-govern, a right that men acquire for themselves. Ephesians 5 is a train wreck full of logical fallacy and inconsistencies. It has caused sorrow for many women and has made devils and tyrants out of men. Also, most scholars both of the conservative and liberal kind agree that the pastorals 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus are forgeries. 1 Timothy teaches that women will be saved through childbearing and supposedly condemn all women to a life of servitude to men because of Eve's sin. I guess even the blood of Jesus was not enough to save women from the stigma of Eve's sin, only Adam's, and an extra antidote is needed to help Jesus out such as women bearing children for salvation. It teaches that women cannot have any authority over men because Adam was formed first, yet Paul in his authentic letter in 1 Cor 11 had this to say in regards to Adam being created first and woman coming from man - 8 For the first man didn’t come from woman, but the first woman came from man. 9 And man was not made for woman, but woman was made for man. 11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. 12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God. And in Genisis, the creation account makes no mention of Adam having any rule or "headship" over the woman on account of him being created first. In fact, God had this to say to the two of them - 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed THEM, and God said to THEM, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Authority and Dominion were given to the both of them. The only time rule over woman is mentioned is after the fall and as a result of sin mentioned in the descriptive voice, not as a prescription or privilege given by God to the man, i.e "he shall rule over you". Christ has come to restore our broken relationships, but 1 Timothy teaches male hierarchy in the creation account which is something that Genisis itself does not teach neither does Paul teach it. Someone cleaned Paul up after he was martyred, they Romanized him and sanctioned Roman imperialism for mass consumption through interpolation and forging documents by abusing his name and exploiting his authority.
You just stated the entire argument over the hyper scrutinazation of scriptures of man. Not the. Jesus. Jesus is the complete doctrine of the church. Study all scriptures. Yes. Yes. But except infalible mans analization and nuance perception of them. No. No
The verses where Paul apparently tells women to shut up though are mistranslated and misinterpreted. Look up the lectures and books by Catherine Kroeger from CBE.
There's a lot of linguistics professors and godly intellects on the large committees who give us our translations. Catherine Kroeger trumps them all? That's an ENORMOUS claim to say 1 Cor 11:2-16, 1 Cor 14:34-35, and 1 Tim 2:9-14 are all misinterpreted and mistranslated. Not being angry here :) just want to push back on your comment a bit. I think Paul is instructing men to be the leaders in the church service, and I think we should listen and do it, because he's Christ's apostle and he desires our good and God's glory. I love my sisters in Chist and everywoman's ability to think, speak and act for themselves. Why else were Jesus' 12 disciples all males but that he saw this leadership role in the church for men too? Peace
For frank..the jesus that you portrayed..is much similar in the Al-Qur'an...thats my claim...if you (frank) make a video about jesus in the Qur'an..please notify me..i wanna hear your explanation
I like The Book of Thomas. I Don't like Religion. I Love who is Embodied as Jesus. Sanada is the Over Soul of Jesus and Buddha. They shared the same Love and teachings but in different cultural wordings. Now it's up to the collective to embrace and embody that same Love and COMPASSION for the Highest good of ALL ... We are the "second coming " of Christ Consciousness.
Jesus Christ never disregarded the Torah, He corrected their misinterpretation and misrepresentation of what the Torah actually taught; they exalted their extra-biblical traditions & interpretations above the actual word of God, Jesus gave the proper interpretation and application of what the word of God teaches.
Both Jesus and Paul posited the amazing grace of God. BEING the amazing grace, Jesus could not elucidate it except through his actions and (rather awesome) words and invitations. Paul defined grace using Judaic rabbinic teaching and Greek Socratic dialogue. Paul’s "tools" were different than Jesus'. But they both sculpted the same object.
In principal true. It’s either or. Either you trust and follow the instructions of the original Bible Tanach, or you trust and follow the instructions of the N T Jesus. They can never work together as one.
This man concisely expresses what christ did for us. He died for our lack of perfection. Because academics could be saved also. Because biblical scholars and their opinions aren t the eay the truth the life
Jesus was not a western thinking man. He was a middle eastern oriental Jew who thought in metaphors, allegories and parable or stories. The western evangelical church takes those scriptures, literally in a way that was not intended by the writers who were speaking to a different culture. And, especially not in a flawed English translation. The apostle Paul was not in any way anti-women. Women ran his churches. The church at Rome is a perfect example. This church was run by a woman named Priscilla. Some of his teachings to women, like wearing veils, were to keep within the customs of the time. In the Corinthian church women largely wore their hair short, so that was also to help differentiate them from the men. Most historians now now concede that the Timothy letters were not written by PAUL at all, but like 2nd Peter come from a period in the second century, about the year 120 A.D. at the earliest and they do not reflect Paul’s teachings or that of his apostles. Jesus had women disciples. Yep. He did. The Mary Martha story is a perfect example of this. Mary was welcomed by him as a disciple, something not ordinarily done in that culture. Mary Magdalene was an apostle who taught the other apostle deeper things that the Lord had revealed to her as a close friend possibly even his partner. Early Christian traditions tell us that. So, the idea that women are not to teach men has more to do with the Roman patriarchy, which infected the Roman church than anything having to do with early Christianity or what Jesus taught . Evangelical Christianity, based upon a strict form of Calvinism, has very little to do with the essence of what Christ taught in its legalism, and it’s lack of regard for the mystical nature of Jesus’s teachings . At least, the Catholics had the mystics who knew Christ as the beloved, in a deep way, and understood what he was teaching as the source of love and passing it along to each other in connected communities. He was also a socialist, and they had all things in common as the scriptures say. And he was a social justice warrior who fought for the dignity of those tossed aside by the culture. He would not be able to relate to the idea of rugged American individualism and selfishness to the detriment of the commons or the community. Jesus was all about community first and being individuals within that community with freedom. So was Paul. When you know, Christ, you have the freedom to be who you are in him. American Evangelicals have given up the cause of Christ to retain power over others. The very same thing that the Catholic Church did during the inquisitions in murdering Christians of other faith for political control. The evangelicals want their freedom to worship, and don’t care if they inflict their views on the rest of us. The anti abortion legislation is just one example. They are concerned about people moving away from God, when they are the very reason that people are leaving the church or not wanting to participate, because they do not see Jesus in them or their politics. Read Matt 25. It tells us how we are to treat the least of us. The sermon on the mount is the essence of what he taught in a way people of that time could understand and reflect on later. A church that condemns the poor and calls them bums, insults the disabled as Rush and Trump did, promotes violence as a way to get what you want, is willing to divide the country to the detriment of the rest of us, is hardly acting like what Christ taught. Jesus is not the guy holding an AR with patriot written on a T-shirt I recently saw. In another words, American evangelical Christianity of the far right is not, in any way, shape or form, Christianity .
IMO the dialogue here is confusing and irrational ... We are told to accept only the words of Jesus as written by one group of authors you've chosen serendipity from the Bible that claim this is what Jesus actually spoke or taught. However, we are not to accept the writings of another group of men you've chosen serendipity from the Bible who also record & write about Jesus. But if you cannot trust the words of the men in the second group then on what basis do you accept or trust the accuracy of the words of the men in the first group? You appear to say it is only based on ... YOUR BLIND FAITH? You also call out the apostle Paul specifically as part of the non-authoritative group - yet Peter the Apostle directly writes that Paul's writings are "other scripture", authoritative and controlled by the Holy Spirit (2nd Peter 1:16-21; 3:15-16; 2:21-22) ... Peter's eyewitness assessment trumps your blind faith ! Peter's historical presence combines both faith and reason in a very human and rational way unlike your "8 ball" method (appears you've forgotten your own father's analogy of the man hanging from a cliff in the fog?) You are not presenting a paradox of blind faith (as you claim) but simply an autonomous dictation for accepting or rejecting a part of the Bible based only on your own person preference. Or in other words, "you" determine which books or words are authentic and authoritative. SO really it's not that the words of Jesus are true or authoritative as much as your decision to accept them as such that "makes them" true, worthy or authoritative. This sounds more like the Gen.3:1 garden theme ... "did God really say?"
This man makes christ easily exlained to others and gives hope. Christ perfect. Our approvable or evaluation of its validity. No. No. Christ did it all. The way the truth yhe life.
Too bad the only true description of the words and character of Jesus are in the gospels, written by people just like Paul! Frank Schaeffer assumes he understands the true character of Jesus, while incorrectly interpreting the story of Jesus and Mary and Martha. He's using his own words. Luke 10: 38Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. 40But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. 41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. It wasn't some rule-breaking anti-misogynistic statement Jesus made. He is God, Mary chose to listen to His words, therefore Mary chose 'that good part', which is to listen to every Word of God. Furthermore, the text doesn't negate the possibility of Lazarus' presence, surely he must've met him to befriend him since John 11 shows Jesus had already acquaintance with Lazarus. Careful study of God's Word gives true knowledge of who Jesus Christ is, you must submit your own prejudices or philosophical assumptions. Stay wary of Frank's thoughts, pray for him, I know I will
Frank seems to be separating the actual words of Jesus Christ from what the apostle Paul wrote, this is scripturally incorrect, ALL scriptures come from GOD, what Paul wrote after the resurrection of Jesus came from Jesus through divine revelation by The Holy Spirit, the scripture is the mind of God.
The Orthodox have a zillion other books they wrote around the time of the varias book of the bible were written, they just were not part of the canon, yet we accept them as part of our tradition, and that's the difference between Christian Orthodox and the Evangelicals. So glad you defend us women. God bless you!!! I don't care for Paul at all, it rhymes, lol
Frank is himself conveniently editorializing the Mary and Martha story. First, Mary was "sitting at the feet of Jesus". That is, she was not engaged in a dialogue, she was playing rapt (female) pupil to a grand (male) teacher. Second, Jesus did not tell Martha to come out and join Mary. He simply defended the criticism of Mary that was made by Martha. I am no professing Christian and have no agenda. These are simply the facts of the narrative.
I deny it. Armageddon is evil. You and all you delusional zionist evangelicals make trouble in the middle east so two thirds of the jews will be slaughtered and then you will be raptured. I was raised christian. Do you really believe God doesn't recognize murder even if you did not pull the trigger. I recognize it and He is smarter than me.
This man takes two verses in scripture about Martha and Mary in Twitches it and turns it upside down and sideways. Context is everything when reading scripture and Schaefer missed that by a mile
I disagree with him. But am also of the opinion that the Christians should follow Jesus' example in how they treat others, especially in a place like the US (his home) where Christians are the ones being hostile to immigrants and the poor. No law or doctrine or creed supersedes that. After all, it's Jesus you'll be standing before in judgement. To me, his perspective on those verses is mostly flawed but ultimately important. Something to learn from.
@@jmwdoc7754 everything is context this man's interpretation that no one else is in the home except for the two girls with Jesus is nothing more than an assumption. Paul's commandment for women to be quiet in church is completely different than being quiet in their home. Women are not to be priests deacons or Bishops in Christianity. Women also did not participate in the levitical priesthood for the same reason because they would contaminate the sacrifice with their menstrual cycle and even today they cannot receive Eucharist after a period of time after giving childbirth. However most denominations have become quite liberal in this prohibition. As for your comment on foreigners remember the United States government steals money out of the pockets of people who are citizens here and gives it to other people. Charity starts at home if you have two coats give one to a stranger but in our case the government is taking both and giving them to strangers and that's wrong. Again everything is context. As for your comment on the poor good God almighty the government steals the money from the middle class and gives it to the poor and thereby causes the middle class to become poor increasing the overall poorness of the country. Not to mention of middle-class person can't afford to have a child but he certainly pays for some poor man to have a child and that's wrong because you're allowing irresponsible people to produce more irresponsible children! Therefore the Commandment thy shall not steal his broken by the government in that scenario. It's gotten to the point now where people are proud to be on food stamps SSI and Social Security full disability but remember the middle class pays for that and that keeps the middle class from being able to have more children that might be productive instead of mooching off the state! This is why Paul says if you don't work you don't eat because otherwise it's theft capiche. Show yourself to have some wisdom please!
@@truckdriver8416 Stop lying to yourself. The government doesn't steal money to give to the poor. That's not what happens. The economic numbers don't show that. The US did have massive programs to build a middle class and lift millions out of poverty, and it was wildly successful. But after desegregation and civil rights the corporate movement has now completely taken over (with the excuse of 'laziness') and has transferred massive amounts of wealth to the richest. This is something that's been documented to excruciating detail. One big stumbling block US Christians have to overcome is racism. And if you don't you will regret it. God's word today calls for a TOTAL SEPARATION from unbelief. You can't be clinging to a small things passed down from your ancestors. This 'great' human civilization is coming to an end soon, wise up.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Revelation 3:17
Mr. Schaefer, In case you do not know what Bibliology means, please know it is the study of the Bible, the Word of God. The Bible is the inspired source of knowledge about God, Jesus Christ, salvation, death, hell, and eternity. Without a proper view of the Bible, our views on these other issues become clouded and distorted. Bibliology tells us what the Bible is. Common questions in Bibliology are as followed: So, is the Bible truly God's Word? Our answer to this question will not only determine how we view the Bible and its importance to our lives, but also it will ultimately will have an eternal impact on us. What is the canon of Scripture? The basis of Christianity is found in the authority of Scripture. If we can't identify what is Scripture, then we can't properly distinguish any theological truth from error. What does it mean that the Bible is inspired? While there are different views as to what extent the Bible is inspired, there can be no doubt that the Bible itself claims that every word, in every part of the Bible, is inspired by God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13; 2 Timothy 3:16-17). Does the Bible contain errors, contradictions, or discrepancies? If you read the Bible, at face value, without a preconceived bias for finding errors " you will find it to be a coherent, consistent, and relatively easy-to-understand book. Is there proof for the inspiration of the Bible? Among the proofs for the divine inspiration of the Bible are fulfilled prophecy, the unity of Scripture, and the support of archeological findings. Its most important proof, however, is in the lives of those who read it, believe it, and live according to its precepts. Bibliology teaches us that the Bible is inspired, meaning it is "breathed out" by God. A proper Bibliology holds to the inerrancy of Scripture"that the Bible does not contain any errors, contradictions, or discrepancies. A solid Bibliology helps us to understand how God used the personalities and styles of the human authors of Scripture and still produced His Word and exactly what He wanted to be said. Bibliology enables us to know why other books were excluded from the Bible. For the Christian, the Bible is life itself. Its pages are filled with the very Spirit of God, revealing His heart and mind to us. What a wonderful and gracious God we have! He could have left us to struggle through life with no help at all, but He gave His Word to guide us, truly a "lamp to my feet and a light to my path" (Psalm 119:105). A key Scripture on Bibliology is 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." So, to go outside the of what God’s word says and to come up with our own interpretation or your own interpretation of the scriptures is not a good thing because then you are creating in your own mind what you believe the The Bible means to you and it’s not about that. The Bible is not a book that you open up read it put it down and then try to interpret what you thing each passage means, it is more than that, It is inerrant, life changing and giving book that shows us how to live rightly before a just and holy God, and it is God The Holy Spirit who teaches and guides us into all the truth of Gods word.
It's really surprising to listen to him. For being immersed in a intellectual environment he is very uneducated in actual biblical scholarship. Paul was chosen by Jesus because he was the greatest Hebrew scholar of his time. Able to open up the scriptures like nobody else really could. Peter says as much in calling others to listen to him as authoritative. Frankie's dad should have made sure he got a competent biblical education !!
2000 years ago a charismatic rabbi may have caught peoples attention. During the next 1200 years they made him the son of God. And every Christian just assumes that it is true.
@@fansofst.maximustheconfess8226 My "material realism" is no more than a reading of established historical facts and I don't believe in the supernatural in any manner. Your pretentious prose gets you nowhere.
But please read Bart Ehrman's works/blogs for a scholarly treatment of the NT. It supports what you're saying and you don't have to lose your mystical instincts to it. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Wrong, Jesus did NOT dispute, undermine, or contradict the Torah; in fact He said "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved" Matt. 5:18. And when correcting Satan's devious misquotes of scripture, Jesus said in Matt 4:4-10 “No! The Scriptures say," and “The Scriptures also say", and finally “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say". Or when He ACCURATELY quoted God's word when challenged by the Pharisees, Sadducees, & Priests. This man is simply explaining and excusing his own PHILOSOPHY. We are called by the Word of God to BELIEVE ON HIS WORD THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND THE ONLY WAY OF SALVATION. When someone does not believe your word, how does that make you feel, especially if they have NO reason to doubt you are telling the truth or will do as you promise? Now think, how will you explain to God that you just couldn't trust Him to keep His word or that some man convinced you that the Word of God just couldn't be trusted? Therefore if you DON'T BELIEVE the Scriptures, you WILL BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is NOT who He said He is! THAT is Frank Schaeffer's REAL MESSAGE, from the ATHEIST THAT BELIEVES IN GOD. Which god, the god of this world, because to believe in GOD you have to believe His word and he just told you he doesn't didn't he? Paul wrote to the Galatians concerned that they were being lead into another gospel and to believe in another Jesus, turning away to follow deceiving liars claiming that just trusting in Jesus just wasn't enough for salvation. Man's philosophy or God's word. The choice is yours, chose wisely, chose life.
Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. Do not trust anyone who puts themself above the Word of God. He should be ashamed calling himself an atheist, and trying to confuse people with that.
You have to choose: Either 'man decides truth' or God's Word is truth (John 17). Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1, 25
You just don’t like accountability! You’re a feel good, non confrontational, that allows unprincipled behavior at the expense of the community. Culture has to stand on a higher value to be able to serve. Tolerance of depravity and spiritual blindness can only serve the lesser moral laws.
He reads the Bible as mere literature work with his atheistic and agnostic mind. It's pathetic that this is what Schaeffer's son grew up to be. The Lord have mercy on him, but it's better he canvasses his opinions on his own name.
Frankie, wow, I do hope you know Christ as Savior and Lord. With that said, you are the direct antithesis of your father; who was a great man; a genius, and a true believer in the fundamental, plenary and evangelistic truth of the bible; both old and new. One day your tears of remorse and shame is going to consume your soul. I pray this realization to repentance happens before your arrival to Heaven
I miss Frankie’s father. Christ isn’t portrayed in a flawed book. Frankie sees things through his lens, not Thus Saith The Lord. He apparently doesn’t believe in the inspiration of the Scriptures If the Scripture points us to Christ, and it is flawed, who is to say the Christ of the Scripture is perfect? It’s unfortunate, but Frankie’s thinking is flawed
@@williammcguire130 You are correct: we worship the God of the Scriptures who incidentally reveals Himself to us in those very Scriptures What point are you trying to make? That we all have our ‘own truth’ about God?
@@biffalobull2335 No, that the Scriptures aren't God they're the product of the Ancient Church and Protestants tend to idolize the book which is less important than the author of the book.
@@williammcguire130 The Scripture is a product of the Holy Spirit directing men. If He is the Author, doesn’t that make it authoritative? What is your denominational background ?
@@biffalobull2335 But human understanding and interpretation are by necessity limited and that's we have a Tradition of interpretation housed within a Church to guide us. The Book cannot supplant the Church any more than it could supplant the Spirit. I was raised Catholic, spent some time investigating a lot lot lot of Christian expressions and ended up Orthodox so I guess I'm pre denominational because that term implies Protestantism.
Frank Schaeffer is wrong about Jesus being perfect. Jesus Christ was a messenger of God and a human being. Jesus was imperfect but better than all other people in the World and much better than some of them.
Shafer everything is context and you're being quite liberal in your interpretation to the point of being erroneous in your conclusion. You certainly are sounding like an emotional liberal at this point, no wonder you're confused at the proper context.
Wasn’t Jesus a liberal and radical social justice warrior of his day who fought against the stranglehold that the wealthy religious hierarchies of his day had on his people. Didn’t he care about the least of us first? If he had been a conservative of his day, we wouldn’t be here as Christians. And, he would rebel just as strongly at the attitudes conservative Christian’s have today as he did then. And, of course, the church wouldn’t recognize him and would probably kill him for messing with the status quo as they did then.
You're lost my friend honestly when you truly repent let go of everybody everything whatever you give your heart to your God the Bible says the things are God of foolishness to the Natural man and you're trying to figure out the Bible with the natural mind sorry my friend you're lost many are called few are chosen narrow is the road that leads to life and few there be that find it to know the love of Christ that passes all knowledge that he is able to do exceedingly abundantly more than you can think or ask according to the power that worketh in you there is a man that knows the Lord I'm talking of experience
Wow ... I felt that ... I can't remember not believing in Jesus He was always there from my earliest memory He was with me... But as a 5th generation Morman on my Mother's side who also attended a little Country Church with my Grandma on my Father's side , I felt so torn and hurt by religion that one day I got a Red Letter KJV Bible You know with Jesus Words written in red and stopped reading anything but His Words for several years and reconnected with that Simple Pure Relationship I had with Him as a Child and have not let anything sway me since. He is " the Lens " with which I gauge all Truth by . His Word and His Love really is " a lamp to my feet " -
I’m very sorry you felt hurt by religion.
Mr. Schaeffer is truly an enlightened messenger for these crazy times and unchecked religious bullying and power by the Evangelicals. I listen to my heart and it is saying "what would Jesus do" and this is exactly what needs to be brought out of the dark manipulations of Religious leaders.
Thank you so much for your enlightenment of Jesus. I totally agree and worship exactly how you are explaining your belief. God Bless You!
Yeah - I’ve always felt like this. Even when I was an ‘atheist’ , then when I was drawn to Christianity. Then too when I ‘fell’ out with the church and the people in there. And so it continues. I don’t actually like the bible. But I do still ‘love’ Jesus and try to do as he did. I still have a faith. Hope that make sense to anyone who reads my comment
I get it, Simon G and mostly agree and definitely agree in spirit.
Your words are heartfelt. I also love Jesus and can't stand religion. More Jesus every day.
It makes perfect sense. The messenger message often is subjected by confirmation bias so make sure your bias falls into the compassion, empathy, and purity of intention jesus taught. And, this is coming from an atheist
Hahaha. There lies ur problem sir. If u don't like the Bible and profess to love rather Jesus is a dicotmy of sorts. Bible is about God The Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. God in his unity cannot be broken by a mere blip in time. Go read gospel according to John chapter 1. And 1-3John. Do a little research on The Word. In English and Greek. It's not difficult..
@@1dropofbloodsame Spirit wrote the gospels and the letters. Heresy of red letterism is strong.
I've been seeing this same view for awhile. I'm glad I'm not alone
For a self-described "atheist", this guy has strengthened my faith in Christ.
He sees it like I do.
It is NOT about individual verses.
It is about the Bible as a whole. This means even looking into books some claim are forbidden or lost to form the clearest picture possible.
Also reading the Bible as Christ did is probably the best way to gain understanding.
One thing to add. Scripture claims Jesus died for our sins. But what were the true reasons for him being executed (and those like him)? It was because he stood against authority and the religious leaders of the time. And everything those institutions stood for. Today's Christian, just go with the flow, without really understanding what a leap of faith is.
No.
Brilliant analysis, wow, this one is gonna leave a mark. Thank you!
As Marcus Borg once said, “When Jesus and the Bible conflict, Jesus trumps.”
They don’t
Christ said He fulfilled them
@@biffalobull2335 So let me get your comment straight. The Crusades were condoned by Christian scriptures. The Inquisitions were condoned by Christian scriptures. Slavery - even to this day - was/is condoned by Christian scriptures. Are you telling this world wide audience that Jesus taught such love and compassion to our neighbor as this? If so, then you must subscribe to the beliefs that the world is flat and that the sun revolves around the earth.
@@mepkin9449
Christ fulfilled the moral law. He fulfilled prophecy in the OT. He said to the Pharisees of His day that they searched the Scriptures, but the Scriptures were speaking of Him
Christ and the Scriptures are never at odds. Marcus Borg is a fool for saying so
Your exegesis wouldn’t pass in even the thinnest of online seminaries
@@biffalobull2335 Interesting you call Borg a “fool”. And, you judge me the same way! You are very judgmental. So, stand in the corner with your truth. BTW, did you even bother to listen to this guy? He literally said, “Jesus preempts (period)”.Go, stand in the corner with your truth. Conversation is over. Nothing more than a p....g match for you.
@@mepkin9449
You’re confusing judgement with discernment.
Borg can’t even get the basics right
It’s ok to be honest, we all need God’s grace.
Jesus was beautiful.
How do you know? His identity was twisted with that of Cesare Borgia son of Pope Alexander vi.
Wow it took me that long to find this. So true and Thank you
Frank Schaeffer is right. Actually, the term Christian means to be Christ like, but the fundamentalists are not Christ like. Many of these people are arrogant and self righteous moralists. Lecturing those who do not agree with them, and believe in something different than what they believe. Whatever happened to do unto others, as you would have them do unto you ?
This was very good food for thought. I agree with you for sure on a TH-cam discussing why "white evangelicaks" support trump. I was sorry to hear another interview unbecoming language of someone following Jesus as briefly discussed here. If we want to honor Him, we want to reflect that...look up to, not join in with the attitudes of the world. You know that, i think. I think you are still working through the confusion of your childhood. I am 72, so have done thzt a lot, too. I am grateful that you actually said what i have figured out, too, about trump and his pushers. I keep saying, too, that you cannot be both a Bible believing Christian and a trump follower. Yes, my life has been threatened by so called Christians. I have read/studied Revelation and other Books and that is why when i heard trump in all his incredible "boasting," that i knew he was following an antiChrist road! Personally, i think there is some truth to the first book ing Left Behind. I witnessed something in a church board meet very similar to one of those scenes. No one said a word when the minutes were changed to a complete lie of events. I would imagine you have seen that, too. I tried to warn others about then and trump. It was an incredible confusing frenzy around here. Normally kindly people became openly gun carriers, and were rude, demanding, and mouthy...pushy, and heartless. Like you see at labor strikes...not civil any longer. It is quite possible that these fake christians are going to actually usher in the antichrist! Ha! It fits, actually. I am so sorry that you were made to be a part of this goofy world of radicals who made up their own god and interpretation, but do not, please, do not throw out the good and Truth with their perversion. Maybe they were/are sincere, but so were the pharisees. You still love them as family and friends, though deluded. It took me a while to get this part. Now I just carefully throw out a few thoughts and do not get upset anymore, though inside, i weep. I pray that they will just think it over. The militant part became very obvious lately here and was frightening, really. My friends and beloved pastor think i am deluded...that i do not get it, however, i see that the Holy Spirit and Fruits don't change. When you realize this thinking is wrong, not Biblical, it creates, as you know, a cognitive dissonance that drives you to pure delusion to justify, or drives you to jump off, or makes you just nuts! When you jump, you can go nowhere but down...or you can look for Truth. I think you are still looking. Keep going. I do not understand the seeming confusion between what Paul said in that instance about women, because he worked with them and extoled them for their work, too. He recognized their leadership and phophetic gifts, in an orderly way. No one contradicted Christ. We can only speculate what was behind some of what he wrote. But he would not have intentionally contradicted Christ, i think we can agree, yes? If we look to all of Scripture, we do see an overall harmony with what Christ actually said and did. We actually see prophecy incredibly fulfilled, and Christ discussing Scripture passages explaining them. The disharmony, then we realize, is in our own perception...the window we look through either reveals or confuses what is actually there. No where do we see from The Lord, and not from Jesus, specifically, that we are to take over a pagan government to usher in Christ or a rapture. People have misinterpreted and put their own slant on Biblical teaching to create their own god go serve their own purposes. But seeing this happening helps me understand Revelation in a whole new way, as sad as it is. I pray that you will keep searching. Read it again from the heart...the Heart of God. Grant mercy and forgiveness to weak humans and continue in the love that i see in you. God bless you bunches. Thank you for your honesty.
Just a note. The anti women Timothy letters are, like 2nd Peter, regarded by the majority of Christian historians as not having been written by Paul or his disciples at all or Peter. They are placed somewhere in the 2nd century as from 120 to 140 ce. The Greek is 2nd century and these letters do not reflect the teachings of Paul or Jesus who elevated women to an equal place with men.
The reality is they were placed in the Bible by the Roman church which begun to reflect the Greek idea of the patriarchy infused in the Greek Roman culture through the anti women teachings of Aristotle. The ancients Jews and early Christians regarded women as fonts of wisdom appreciated for their gifts. When merchants left their homes to travel, it was the women who ran the family business and made decisions.
Those fraudulent Timothy letters should be thrown out of the Bible.
Another note. The Rapture is not a biblical doctrine and existed no where in Christianity until the 1840s when a woman in darbys Plymouth brethren groups went into a trance and came out of it, saying I had a new revelation from the Lord he’s taking us out before the tribulation. It was the most written against doctrine of the day, it only became prominent in the evangelical church sometime in the 1950s. this is an insult to Christian throughout the world who are in persecution right now.
Revelation is a coded book written by John to uplift persecuted Christians during the time of Nero. The Christians of that day understood the symbols and allegories in that book. John wasn’t about to come out directly against Rome and Nero and risk being killed. Nero name in Hebrew, where each letter has a numerical significance, is 666 in Greek, its 626. It is a common form of Jewish apocryphal literature, and it’s not meant to be taken as some kind of future predictions. The antichrist being Nero was a dictator. It was warning us that dictators are the antichrist. The fact that Christians are following an antichrist figure like Trump shows how ignorant they are of what the Bible really says in context.
Brilliant.
Big (but correct) departure from Francis, his father, who subscribed to "propositional revelation" which depended on verbal inspiration. Many parts of the NT was heavily influenced by the inability of the writers, including Paul, to free themselves of the influence
of Jewish religion and culture, especially social pressure of their time (c.f. Paul criticisms of Peter and the Judaisers). Proper exegesis of the NT requires us to "de-Semiticise" it first in order to get at the true teachings of Jesus and understand what He actually did. Frank is right about starting with Jesus and focussing on what He actually DID, rather than what He was supposed to have taught. (A clue - only one church father Athanasius got it right and Mark was at Alexandria too, and his Gospel is probably the most to the point.) It will surprise many Christians to learn that such an approach will reveal a message of Christianity which is radically different from what the western church has been preaching for the last 2,000 years.
Actually, Paul was radical too! He said there is neither Jew nor Gentile, Neither slave nor free, nor male and female in Christ Jesus, that we were all one. And he meant it on social standing not just in salvation or in some useless soul sense. For example, he ate with the gentiles and treated them on equal social standing with the Jews. He petitioned his friend Philemon to set his slave Onesimus free and made Onesimus the ex-slave a Bishop in the church of Ephesis. He also had female co-workers and church planters who he called not only equal to him in the work that they did but mentioned one of them being an Apostle that surpassed even himself. In regards to marriage in 1 Corinthians, he speaks 16 times about marriage and gives women the exact equal status, rights, and responsibilities as husbands. It is only in four of the six forged letters of Paul that hierarchy between men and women show up. 80 percent of scholars are sure that Ephesians is a forgery, the book that calls the husband head of the wife, and 90 percent are sure that the pastorals 1&2 Timothy, Titus are forgeries, the books that tell women they will be saved through childbearing and supposedly condemn all women to a life of servitude to men because of Eve's sin. I guess even the blood of Jesus was not enough to save women from the stigma of Eve's sin, only Adam's. Someone cleaned Paul up after he was martyred, they Romanized him and sanctioned Roman imperialism through forged documents abusing his name and exploiting his authority, and through interpolation in one of his authentic letters.
Excellent thoughts. Thank you.
#factcheck "80 per cent of scholars" "90 per cent are sure that"...? Prove you haven't simply made these figures up pls
Be careful about denouncing 1 Timothy. 1 Timothy 6:6-10 took a stronger stand for social justice and equality than any Feminist or Politically Correct enforcer ever did.
I think the BOOKS of Peter might help explain a few things for you.
The Books of Peter were omitted from the Christian bible. The reason being was that the church didn't want women to be equal with men. I found one book in the catholic bible, one or two in the gnostic bible, and one in the Catholic library which might be hard to get. What I remember is the woman had to work for it like the men. Being a man I was told to keep my mouth shut.
Jesus never said forget about the torah....but came to fulfil what the torah said about him.
EXACTLY.
The weird thing about this is that the ortodox jews and the christians believes in the same God.
But they cant stand each other.
I agree. I personally let Jesus of the gospels stand alone and He trumps everyone else's commentary.
Amazing how the evangelicals commenting here are so ignorant of his teachings in context. Can you know Jesus without the Old Testament or in interpretation from a western mindset. Yep. If your mind and heart are open. Can you have religious doctrine and dogma shoved down your throat like I did. Yep. And it almost destroyed me spiritually, emotionally and psychologically. And then, I had a spiritual awakening of Christ in me as me that changed me totally and completely. Once you get there, you leave the child teenager stage of doctrine and dogma behind and move onto knowing him who is from the beginning as John puts it. From that point, everything you do is out of love for the beloved, not to gain anything, but out of love. If you don’t grow up and continue to serve in law, you can never know the true freedom that comes from deeply knowing the divine.
This is such a terrible understanding of the New Testament where you determine the meaning of the entire Bible as a modern in the western world and think it’s better than the people that grew up in Jesus’ culture. Even the writings of Jesus come from people who weren’t him. We trust that the people who wrote the things Jesus said didn’t try to “water them down and make them more approachable.” Jesus said very harsh things that I don’t think would jive with young shaeffers new perception of the world. Does postmodern Jesus trump actual Jesus? He makes funny tongue and cheek references, but he makes for a terrible theologian.
This guy is the epitome of “Feminism ruins everything”.
What a warped view of truth.
A breath of fresh air... thank you Frank.
This is a question I have always posed, If you love Jesus as Christians state, why don't you follow him, his life, his words, his example ? Instead you adhere to the political scriptures and dogma of an inherently corrupt and self serving "clergy and church". Set up for political expedience and founded by people who neither knew the real man Jesus or followed his teachings.
Simple point, if I were to hurl an unsubstantiated insult at the figure of Jesus, few if any would respond with a cogent rebuttal to put me straight, many would simply hurl ignorant abuse as a form of unintelligent ignorant rebuttal.... reprisal.
How many would take the higher road, how many would turn the other cheek ?
However, if I made a derogatory remark against the American state or God forbid insulted the flag... a tsunami of abusive comments would result.
....you love the flag more than the great personage of Jesus ?
BTW there is more known about the real Jesus in Islam than in Christianity... Listen to Frank, he is a real lover of Christ ( "Christopher" ), a good man.
best wishes
He is so messed up that every interview of Frank shrieks of his anger on which he has build his house. It's sad .. pity. He should ask himself is he following the Lord or following his understanding / his anger / his frustration with evangelicals / his biases and twists of culture over scripture. But he would not accept that. He is not the first one to rebel and certainly not the last one.
Scripture is permanent. It is an unwavering rock. Ones understanding has to be in submission to it not over it.
He is seemingly saying he understands Lord better than the first disciples... Poor chap. Even at the end of his road of life he is not realising.
America definitely need a solid dose of persecution when u have deadbeats like him and many others who profess to be Christians in a religious sense but do not understand what is the Church. 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
@Deeps N
I genuinely think that you're the messed up one here. You said "America definitely need a solid dose of PERSECUTION when u have deadbeats like him and many others who profess to be Christians in a religious sense but do not understand what is the Church". Basically, you said he's a deadbeat because his interpretation of Jesus and His teaching is different than yours? And you think America need a persecution because of that? Because of different interpretation of the same person (Jesus) and the same book (the Bible). If so, what do you think America deserve for having Moslems, Jews, Buddhists, atheists, etc. in the country? Thank you for revealing that you're a racist without directly proclaiming so.
@@tiararoxeanne1318 you are welcome to think whatever you like. God bless 🙂
Franky... 2 minutes in and the mis-representations of truth in your explanation a were obvious. You were taught well so you should know better. First of all, Jesus never claimed to change anything in the OT. He claim to have fulfilled it. He constantly pointed to the OT as speaking of Him, His life, death, and resurrection. This was the clear and consistent testimony of the apostle Paul, who received revelation from Christ Himself. Paul makes this clear in Galatians. There is no other gospel. What you basically said in the two minutes I heard was “the Bible is an imperfect book, but Jesus is perfect, so I’m just gonna go ahead and interpret what I think should be true about Jesus and apply that to how I live my life.” That may seem “groovy,” but it’s nothing but an underhanded approach to set yourself up as an authority over the only reliable testimony we have of the life and death of Jesus, the Bible. Sorry if this seems harsh, but you people need to realize that there isn’t freedom in being “released” from the authority and inerrancy of the Bible, and trying to say you can love Jesus and throw out the only thing God has given us that reliably tells us Who He is, what He has done, and why He has come is to do nothing more than invent your own religion. To imagine someone in your own mind that you admire and call “Jesus” doesn’t make him anymore the real Jesus then you looking yourself in a mirror and saying “you must be Jesus.” Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT prophecies concerning a Messiah, not just for the Jews, but for all who trust Him for salvation from sin and death. He is not a figment of our imaginations, so let’s not make Him so.
EXACTLY.
The Most High ELOHIM YHWH had an everlasting covenant with the house of Jacob,the 12tribes NOT Esau,how then did Rome get the mandate to edit and manipulate the scriptures by changing names,holidays etc?
Can we trust the council's of Nicea 325AD?
Very sensible.
How about Jesus accepting the authority of the OT?
Is agreeable what Frank says, about understanding the Bible. We got to look at IT through the lens of JESUS CHRIST. Some of us call it, through CHRIST'S light.
And the best way to really understand is to get to know JESUS. And we find the person of CHRIST in the gospel of John.
To really understand, we need a personal relationship with CHRIST.
CHRIST was never against the LAW of GOD, which is the Torah. THE BOOK that Jews used to live by as their whole center of life, coming from GOD.
JESUS said once;
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17 NKJV)
The LAW and the Prophets, is the whole old testament. CHRIST came to fulfill THE LAW of GOD in men. When a man is willing to be jointed back to GOD in a personal relationship, through CHRIST.
Frank was talking about the women that was busy and was more concerned in the things of the world then to listen to him. And that's what most people, "christians" included, do.
If we are going to say something that CHRIST said. Is better if we do it as it was or is reported.
What Frank was talking about is in Luke 10:38-42, and it says.
Now it happened as they went that He entered a certain village; and a certain woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus' feet and heard His word. But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approach Him and said, "Lord do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me". And Jesus answered and said to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. "But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taking away from her." (Luke 10:38-42 NKJV)
If we are going to say something about CHRIST or anyone else for that matter. Is it not better if we put the facts out there, or at least get the story right?
In the passage that Frank was talking about, with the woman in it.
The passage is illustrating that is up to us to get to know CHRIST.
Some people do want to follow JESUS and JESUS only. Which that will be great for those people. And they don't want to take in inconsideration what the apostles learned from JESUS, and especially from Paul.
Because Paul didn't know in flesh and blood JESUS like Peter and John did.
But if we can understand a little bit about the Bible. We can understand that is not about flesh and blood, is about the spirit. About the person inside of the flesh and blood. Without our soul, our spirit, we our not to the image of GOD. Which that's how GOD created man, to HIS image. Without our soul we're just like animals. All flesh is going to go back to the ground.
When Paul said that he didn't let a woman teach, that was because he knew the Torah like no one else. Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees. Meaning, he was an exceptional Pharisees of the LAW. Before he knew CHRIST, and by been that. He knew the LAW or the Torah like no other.
The explanation of what Paul said about women is in 1 Timothy 2:8-15, and it says:
I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided or gold pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1 Timothy 2:8-15 NKJV)
Why did Paul say this?
Paul knew the Torah and the Prophets like no other, and Jewish culture and history.
If we know and understand the Bible. We know that Paul felt this way, because he was following the order that GOD had given man at creation. Adam was the one in charge of the whole thing at the beginning. But Adam knowing that it was wrong what Eve was about to do. He let her take charge, and because of that they both paid the price and went against GOD'S command.
It seems like Frank is doing as many do. He is spreading his own doctrine, and is up to us who to follow. Do you follow JESUS or a man? Just as in Luke 10:38-42, is up to us who to listen to.
We are going to follow who or what is in our hearts.
Is up to each of us.
If anyone is really interested in learning about the WORD of GOD. That one needs to get to know JESUS CHRIST very, very personally. We find JESUS CHRIST in the gospel of John.
GOD BLESS
@JOSE EZPARZA
"We know that Paul felt this way, because he was following the order that GOD had given man at creation. Adam was the one in charge of the whole thing at the beginning. But Adam knowing that it was wrong what Eve was about to do. He let her take charge, and because of that they both paid the price and went against GOD'S command."
You said that God's command that men should be in charge above women should be applied in Paul's time. Should it also be applied in current time? I beg to disagree. Many of God's orders is only applicable in certain times / conditions. Otherwise, why we stop sacrificing animals like the old times? Like what the Moslems still do even in this modern time?
What you do is nit-picking the Bible verses. Several verses are supposed to be applied in certain times, the other verses are ruled forever. I don't say you are wrong. What you did is "interpreting" the Bible, like so many people do, like what Frank Schaeffer does. What I disagree is you consider your interpretation is correct and Frank Schaeffer's is not. That's quite an arrogance without base.
Except, as is mentioned earlier, Paul did not write the Timothy letters. They are 2nd cent forgeries. The Greek is 2nd cent, and do not relate to anything than Jesus or Paul taught or any of Paul’s deciples.They treated women as equals with men. For a woman to be under submission to a man is not anything Paul would have agreed to. If anything, both Jesus and Paul lifted women up in status.
Do not ever take a historical approach to Jesus and his culture unless you want to have your sacred cows destroyed.
John was a mystic and part of a contemplative group. He was also familiar with Roman and Greek literary ways of writing and teaching. In another’s words, he was extremely intelegent and knew who he was writing to.
It is evident from the sayings of Jesus that he was from the more moderate school. Love God, love your neighbor as yourself is the whole of Torah comes straight out of the more liberal rabbinical thought of that time.
"I think Jesus is essentially perfect, but stuck in a flawed book," - So tell us, Frank, what is the source for your view of Jesus's perfection? You keep telling us you believe in Jesus, while casting aspersions on the very source that tells you of His existence.
We all know that. Jesus is perfect. The object of our worship. The other books are lallible because they we re edited and translated by fallable translators one nuanced sentance or theological thought is not from jesus. But man. Stop diefying evwry word in a book that is of mans thoughs and cultural beliefs abbout. Jesus. Understand.
You aren't supposed to worship Jesus you are supposed to worship God and Jesus says this in Luke chapter 4, verse 8.@@michaelpondo6324
The Bible does tell people about Jesus, but the Christian Church was telling people about Jesus before the Bible ever existed, and has done so consistently since then.
Frank is not "casting aspersions" on the Bible. He is simply pointing out that the book has a context and that we are all engaging in some kind of interpretation when we approach it. At least he is being self-aware and honest about how he is doing so, while most people are rather lacking in both of these qualities.
@@iainpattison903 Then it is strange that Jesus does not say this to the healed man who worships him in John 9:38. Jesus is the name above all names. He is above all to be worshipped. And yet he will give preference to the Father (Phil 2:11).
@@JC-sj2pd I disagree-he grew up in a fundamentalist background, and is trying to right, I believe, the wrongs that he helped create with his father Francis Schaeffer and the whole evangelical right like Falwell, Dobson, etc. I also tend to agree that Jesus is what matters and not so much the interpretation of people who didn't know him. I think Frank is right that they were trying to make it palatable to the people of their time, which I understand, but Jesus is above that, so I certainly don't believe all that Paul said. Sometimes in more critical moments, I believe the Protestants worship Paul as much as Jesus.
Circular reasoning. The only way we know the characteristics of Jesus is FROM the Bible.
I disagree. Frank is simply saying it's about Jesus and not Paul and not Peter, etc. They may be profound interpreters, but like Frank, I go back to Jesus.
@@michael0.770 No. You cannot have Christianity and not have the Church, which He Himself set up and onto which the Holy Spirit descended equally onto all Apostles. Schaeffer used to be partnof thet One Church a long time ago. To claim that this doesn't matter, means claiming that Pentecost didn't happen - or worse: wasn't even true. Shaeffer has fa,len victim to neo-Arianism. So sad to see...
YES.
Frank is identifying the anarchist who spoke truth to power. And how power has grabbed Jesus as a talisman used to control people and make money. As an atheist, I modeled my life after Jesus call to 'help the least of these.' The big difference is, my Jesus was a philosopher who woke-up to his humanity and had great courage. There are no Gods. Only people making choices and looking for excuses.
But Jesus said he was God, and nothing less. He said that life eternal depends on the acceptance of him as the way, truth and life. So your subjectivism is simply a case of obfuscation and personal convenience.
So was Mr. Schaeffer actually ever Born Again BY EXPERIENCE of did / does he just have a intellectual belief in the Jesus OF the bible?
I admit that I don’t understand his whole “atheist who believes in god” thing. Is he saying that he is comfortable with a certain level of contradiction? Just trying to come up with an eye catching title for his book? Bit of both?
In my brief TH-cam introduction to Frank schaeffer:
Old frank schaeffer: orthodoxy is the real thing!
New frank schaeffer: certainty is a disease.
....ok....
My response: faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
So old Schaeffer it is then? I've lived on both side. Would I say, I am currently recovering from the idea that certainty is a disease? Yes. I am.
Certainty is not a disease. God himself declares that he is the God of truth.
Leaving a life without certainty is like being chaff in the wind.
I don’t believe it, either. Paul’s epistles have always created problems for me. Although much of the teachings attributed to Jesus were (and still are, unfortunately) revolutionary, many sayings are just retellings from earlier holy men. Jesus said it was most important to love God and everyone else. I suppose that was just too simple for an already powerful, authoritarian Jewish scholar to comprehend.
Actually, Paul was radical too! He said there is neither Jew nor Gentile, Neither slave nor free, nor male and female in Christ Jesus, that we were all one. And he meant it on social standing not just in salvation or in some useless soul sense like pastors like to say. For example, he ate with the gentiles, removed the Jewish requirement for them to get circumcised, and treated them on equal social standing with the Jews.
Paul petitioned his friend Philemon to set his slave Onesimus free because after Onesimus became a believer and got baptized he was now a "brother" according to Paul and part of the body of Christ and should be treated as a brother and no longer a slave. Paul then made Onesimus, the ex-slave, a Bishop in the church of Ephesus after Philemon his ex-owner released him from his bonds.
Paul had female co-workers and church planters (10 of which are mentioned in the book of Romans alone!) who he called not only equal to him in the work that they did but mentioned one of them being an Apostle that surpassed even himself!
In regards to marriage in 1 Corinthians, the only place where he really speaks of it in his authentic letters, he speaks about it 16 times and goes to great length and care to give wives the exact same equal rights and responsibilities as husbands. He takes great care to equalize the two married partners, and literally, the egalitarian symmetry he proposes for husband and wife is astounding for that day!
It is only in four of the six forged letters of Paul that hierarchy between men and women in marriage and ministry show up. The six forged letters are Ephesians, Colossians,
2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, and Titus.
80% of scholars are sure that Ephesians is a forgery. Ephesians calls the husband the "head" of the wife in comparison to that of Christ's rule as head over the Chruch for the first and last time as a single witness in all of scripture! It gives and justifies the husbands unlimited "authority" to that of Christ's. It also enjoins an inappropriate submission towards husbands in EVERYTHING on the shoulders of wives to that of the Church's submission to God. A yoke that no man would dare lift a finger to himself carry as it would be demoralizing to his character and identity as a man to submit to another in everything with no areas of his life left private. It literally makes the marriage one of master and slave! No amount of "love" on the part of the husband can make up for the loss of personal autonomy and integrity that the wife experiences in that context. It actually cheapens the concept of love because it proposes in the minds of husbands the idea that love, and not just any kind of love but the same type of self-love expressed in the idea of loving your neighbor as you love yourself, can be given to their wives separate from the respect and human integrity that comes with a person's right to self-govern, a right that men acquire for themselves. Ephesians 5 is a train wreck full of logical fallacy and inconsistencies. It has caused sorrow for many women and has made devils and tyrants out of men.
Also, most scholars both of the conservative and liberal kind agree that the pastorals 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus are forgeries. 1 Timothy teaches that women will be saved through childbearing and supposedly condemn all women to a life of servitude to men because of Eve's sin. I guess even the blood of Jesus was not enough to save women from the stigma of Eve's sin, only Adam's, and an extra antidote is needed to help Jesus out such as women bearing children for salvation. It teaches that women cannot have any authority over men because Adam was formed first, yet Paul in his authentic letter in 1 Cor 11 had this to say in regards to Adam being created first and woman coming from man -
8 For the first man didn’t come from woman, but the first woman came from man.
9 And man was not made for woman, but woman was made for man.
11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.
12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
And in Genisis, the creation account makes no mention of Adam having any rule or "headship" over the woman on account of him being created first. In fact, God had this to say to the two of them -
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed THEM, and God said to THEM, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Authority and Dominion were given to the both of them.
The only time rule over woman is mentioned is after the fall and as a result of sin mentioned in the descriptive voice, not as a prescription or privilege given by God to the man, i.e "he shall rule over you". Christ has come to restore our broken relationships, but 1 Timothy teaches male hierarchy in the creation account which is something that Genisis itself does not teach neither does Paul teach it.
Someone cleaned Paul up after he was martyred, they Romanized him and sanctioned Roman imperialism for mass consumption through interpolation and forging documents by abusing his name and exploiting his authority.
No, you're just a moral coward who fears self denial.
You just stated the entire argument over the hyper scrutinazation of scriptures of man. Not the. Jesus. Jesus is the complete doctrine of the church. Study all scriptures. Yes. Yes. But except infalible mans analization and nuance perception of them. No. No
The verses where Paul apparently tells women to shut up though are mistranslated and misinterpreted. Look up the lectures and books by Catherine Kroeger from CBE.
There's a lot of linguistics professors and godly intellects on the large committees who give us our translations. Catherine Kroeger trumps them all? That's an ENORMOUS claim to say 1 Cor 11:2-16, 1 Cor 14:34-35, and 1 Tim 2:9-14 are all misinterpreted and mistranslated. Not being angry here :) just want to push back on your comment a bit. I think Paul is instructing men to be the leaders in the church service, and I think we should listen and do it, because he's Christ's apostle and he desires our good and God's glory. I love my sisters in Chist and everywoman's ability to think, speak and act for themselves. Why else were Jesus' 12 disciples all males but that he saw this leadership role in the church for men too? Peace
@@flannecreelman order in the church, order in the family.
For frank..the jesus that you portrayed..is much similar in the Al-Qur'an...thats my claim...if you (frank) make a video about jesus in the Qur'an..please notify me..i wanna hear your explanation
Yes yes yes! So true it's not even funny! What's this from?
He came to know the truth in the Orthodox Church.
Something happened to him and shook his emotional psyche
This guy teaches a heresy that’s truly dangerous
Frank Shaffer and Salman Rushdie - 2 of my favorite feminists.
I like The Book of Thomas.
I Don't like Religion.
I Love who is Embodied as Jesus.
Sanada is the Over Soul of Jesus and Buddha.
They shared the same Love and teachings but in different cultural wordings.
Now it's up to the collective to embrace and embody that same Love and COMPASSION for the Highest good of ALL ...
We are the "second coming " of Christ Consciousness.
May I ask what that "triangle" between your eyes is? What is it representing?
Jesus Christ never disregarded the Torah, He corrected their misinterpretation and misrepresentation of what the Torah actually taught; they exalted their extra-biblical traditions & interpretations above the actual word of God, Jesus gave the proper interpretation and application of what the word of God teaches.
Both Jesus and Paul posited the amazing grace of God. BEING the amazing grace, Jesus could not elucidate it except through his actions and (rather awesome) words and invitations. Paul defined grace using Judaic rabbinic teaching and Greek Socratic dialogue. Paul’s "tools" were different than Jesus'. But they both sculpted the same object.
In principal true. It’s either or. Either you trust and follow the instructions of the original Bible Tanach, or you trust and follow the instructions of the N T Jesus. They can never work together as one.
This man concisely expresses what christ did for us. He died for our lack of perfection. Because academics could be saved also. Because biblical scholars and their opinions aren t the eay the truth the life
Jesus was not a western thinking man. He was a middle eastern oriental Jew who thought in metaphors, allegories and parable or stories. The western evangelical church takes those scriptures, literally in a way that was not intended by the writers who were speaking to a different culture. And, especially not in a flawed English translation.
The apostle Paul was not in any way anti-women. Women ran his churches. The church at Rome is a perfect example. This church was run by a woman named Priscilla. Some of his teachings to women, like wearing veils, were to keep within the customs of the time. In the Corinthian church women largely wore their hair short, so that was also to help differentiate them from the men.
Most historians now now concede that the Timothy letters were not written by PAUL at all, but like 2nd Peter come from a period in the second century, about the year 120 A.D. at the earliest and they do not reflect Paul’s teachings or that of his apostles.
Jesus had women disciples.
Yep. He did.
The Mary Martha story is a perfect example of this. Mary was welcomed by him as a disciple, something not ordinarily done in that culture. Mary Magdalene was an apostle who taught the other apostle deeper things that the Lord had revealed to her as a close friend possibly even his partner. Early Christian traditions tell us that.
So, the idea that women are not to teach men has more to do with the Roman patriarchy, which infected the Roman church than anything having to do with early Christianity or what Jesus taught .
Evangelical Christianity, based upon a strict form of Calvinism, has very little to do with the essence of what Christ taught in its legalism, and it’s lack of regard for the mystical nature of Jesus’s teachings . At least, the Catholics had the mystics who knew Christ as the beloved, in a deep way, and understood what he was teaching as the source of love and passing it along to each other in connected communities.
He was also a socialist, and they had all things in common as the scriptures say. And he was a social justice warrior who fought for the dignity of those tossed aside by the culture. He would not be able to relate to the idea of rugged American individualism and selfishness to the detriment of the commons or the community. Jesus was all about community first and being individuals within that community with freedom. So was Paul. When you know, Christ, you have the freedom to be who you are in him.
American Evangelicals have given up the cause of Christ to retain power over others. The very same thing that the Catholic Church did during the inquisitions in murdering Christians of other faith for political control. The evangelicals want their freedom to worship, and don’t care if they inflict their views on the rest of us. The anti abortion legislation is just one example.
They are concerned about people moving away from God, when they are the very reason that people are leaving the church or not wanting to participate, because they do not see Jesus in them or their politics.
Read Matt 25. It tells us how we are to treat the least of us. The sermon on the mount is the essence of what he taught in a way people of that time could understand and reflect on later.
A church that condemns the poor and calls them bums, insults the disabled as Rush and Trump did, promotes violence as a way to get what you want, is willing to divide the country to the detriment of the rest of us, is hardly acting like what Christ taught. Jesus is not the guy holding an AR with patriot written on a T-shirt I recently saw.
In another words, American evangelical Christianity of the far right is not, in any way, shape or form, Christianity .
IMO the dialogue here is confusing and irrational ... We are told to accept only the words of Jesus as written by one group of authors you've chosen serendipity from the Bible that claim this is what Jesus actually spoke or taught. However, we are not to accept the writings of another group of men you've chosen serendipity from the Bible who also record & write about Jesus. But if you cannot trust the words of the men in the second group then on what basis do you accept or trust the accuracy of the words of the men in the first group? You appear to say it is only based on ... YOUR BLIND FAITH?
You also call out the apostle Paul specifically as part of the non-authoritative group - yet Peter the Apostle directly writes that Paul's writings are "other scripture", authoritative and controlled by the Holy Spirit (2nd Peter 1:16-21; 3:15-16; 2:21-22) ... Peter's eyewitness assessment trumps your blind faith ! Peter's historical presence combines both faith and reason in a very human and rational way unlike your "8 ball" method (appears you've forgotten your own father's analogy of the man hanging from a cliff in the fog?)
You are not presenting a paradox of blind faith (as you claim) but simply an autonomous dictation for accepting or rejecting a part of the Bible based only on your own person preference. Or in other words, "you" determine which books or words are authentic and authoritative. SO really it's not that the words of Jesus are true or authoritative as much as your decision to accept them as such that "makes them" true, worthy or authoritative. This sounds more like the Gen.3:1 garden theme ... "did God really say?"
Consider what this guy is saying. Really eye 👀 opening.
this guy is awesome
Nah man. He's quite lost.
This man makes christ easily exlained to others and gives hope. Christ perfect. Our approvable or evaluation of its validity. No. No. Christ did it all. The way the truth yhe life.
Too bad the only true description of the words and character of Jesus are in the gospels, written by people just like Paul! Frank Schaeffer assumes he understands the true character of Jesus, while incorrectly interpreting the story of Jesus and Mary and Martha. He's using his own words.
Luke 10: 38Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
39And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
40But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
It wasn't some rule-breaking anti-misogynistic statement Jesus made. He is God, Mary chose to listen to His words, therefore Mary chose 'that good part', which is to listen to every Word of God. Furthermore, the text doesn't negate the possibility of Lazarus' presence, surely he must've met him to befriend him since John 11 shows Jesus had already acquaintance with Lazarus.
Careful study of God's Word gives true knowledge of who Jesus Christ is, you must submit your own prejudices or philosophical assumptions. Stay wary of Frank's thoughts, pray for him, I know I will
Frank seems to be separating the actual words of Jesus Christ from what the apostle Paul wrote, this is scripturally incorrect, ALL scriptures come from GOD, what Paul wrote after the resurrection of Jesus came from Jesus through divine revelation by The Holy Spirit, the scripture is the mind of God.
Interesting, I think I'll stick with the Apostle Paul. Thanks
The Orthodox have a zillion other books they wrote around the time of the varias book of the bible were written, they just were not part of the canon, yet we accept them as part of our tradition, and that's the difference between Christian Orthodox and the Evangelicals. So glad you defend us women. God bless you!!! I don't care for Paul at all, it rhymes, lol
I love this guy!
You're asking the wrong person about Jesus, he obviously doesn't know much about him.
He most likely used to. He was orthodox, after all.
Frank is himself conveniently editorializing the Mary and Martha story. First, Mary was "sitting at the feet of Jesus". That is, she was not engaged in a dialogue, she was playing rapt (female) pupil to a grand (male) teacher. Second, Jesus did not tell Martha to come out and join Mary. He simply defended the criticism of Mary that was made by Martha. I am no professing Christian and have no agenda. These are simply the facts of the narrative.
I think that Frank Schaeffer probably denies that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is here.
I deny it. Armageddon is evil. You and all you delusional zionist evangelicals make trouble in the middle east so two thirds of the jews will be slaughtered and then you will be raptured. I was raised christian. Do you really believe God doesn't recognize murder even if you did not pull the trigger. I recognize it and He is smarter than me.
He makes a good fictional writer. And that’s all
Blessings from Jacova 11..Gevurah
Sounds like Jesus was like John Lennon talking to Prudence...?? 🤔
This man takes two verses in scripture about Martha and Mary in Twitches it and turns it upside down and sideways. Context is everything when reading scripture and Schaefer missed that by a mile
I disagree with him. But am also of the opinion that the Christians should follow Jesus' example in how they treat others, especially in a place like the US (his home) where Christians are the ones being hostile to immigrants and the poor. No law or doctrine or creed supersedes that. After all, it's Jesus you'll be standing before in judgement.
To me, his perspective on those verses is mostly flawed but ultimately important. Something to learn from.
@@jmwdoc7754 everything is context this man's interpretation that no one else is in the home except for the two girls with Jesus is nothing more than an assumption. Paul's commandment for women to be quiet in church is completely different than being quiet in their home. Women are not to be priests deacons or Bishops in Christianity. Women also did not participate in the levitical priesthood for the same reason because they would contaminate the sacrifice with their menstrual cycle and even today they cannot receive Eucharist after a period of time after giving childbirth. However most denominations have become quite liberal in this prohibition. As for your comment on foreigners remember the United States government steals money out of the pockets of people who are citizens here and gives it to other people. Charity starts at home if you have two coats give one to a stranger but in our case the government is taking both and giving them to strangers and that's wrong. Again everything is context. As for your comment on the poor good God almighty the government steals the money from the middle class and gives it to the poor and thereby causes the middle class to become poor increasing the overall poorness of the country. Not to mention of middle-class person can't afford to have a child but he certainly pays for some poor man to have a child and that's wrong because you're allowing irresponsible people to produce more irresponsible children! Therefore the Commandment thy shall not steal his broken by the government in that scenario. It's gotten to the point now where people are proud to be on food stamps SSI and Social Security full disability but remember the middle class pays for that and that keeps the middle class from being able to have more children that might be productive instead of mooching off the state! This is why Paul says if you don't work you don't eat because otherwise it's theft capiche. Show yourself to have some wisdom please!
@@truckdriver8416 Stop lying to yourself. The government doesn't steal money to give to the poor.
That's not what happens.
The economic numbers don't show that. The US did have massive programs to build a middle class and lift millions out of poverty, and it was wildly successful. But after desegregation and civil rights the corporate movement has now completely taken over (with the excuse of 'laziness') and has transferred massive amounts of wealth to the richest. This is something that's been documented to excruciating detail.
One big stumbling block US Christians have to overcome is racism. And if you don't you will regret it. God's word today calls for a TOTAL SEPARATION from unbelief. You can't be clinging to a small things passed down from your ancestors.
This 'great' human civilization is coming to an end soon, wise up.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Revelation 3:17
Mr. Schaefer, In case you do not know what Bibliology means, please know it is the study of the Bible, the Word of God. The Bible is the inspired source of knowledge about God, Jesus Christ, salvation, death, hell, and eternity. Without a proper view of the Bible, our views on these other issues become clouded and distorted. Bibliology tells us what the Bible is. Common questions in Bibliology are as followed:
So, is the Bible truly God's Word? Our answer to this question will not only determine how we view the Bible and its importance to our lives, but also it will ultimately will have an eternal impact on us.
What is the canon of Scripture? The basis of Christianity is found in the authority of Scripture. If we can't identify what is Scripture, then we can't properly distinguish any theological truth from error.
What does it mean that the Bible is inspired? While there are different views as to what extent the Bible is inspired, there can be no doubt that the Bible itself claims that every word, in every part of the Bible, is inspired by God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13; 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Does the Bible contain errors, contradictions, or discrepancies? If you read the Bible, at face value, without a preconceived bias for finding errors " you will find it to be a coherent, consistent, and relatively easy-to-understand book.
Is there proof for the inspiration of the Bible? Among the proofs for the divine inspiration of the Bible are fulfilled prophecy, the unity of Scripture, and the support of archeological findings. Its most important proof, however, is in the lives of those who read it, believe it, and live according to its precepts.
Bibliology teaches us that the Bible is inspired, meaning it is "breathed out" by God. A proper Bibliology holds to the inerrancy of Scripture"that the Bible does not contain any errors, contradictions, or discrepancies. A solid Bibliology helps us to understand how God used the personalities and styles of the human authors of Scripture and still produced His Word and exactly what He wanted to be said. Bibliology enables us to know why other books were excluded from the Bible. For the Christian, the Bible is life itself. Its pages are filled with the very Spirit of God, revealing His heart and mind to us. What a wonderful and gracious God we have! He could have left us to struggle through life with no help at all, but He gave His Word to guide us, truly a "lamp to my feet and a light to my path" (Psalm 119:105).
A key Scripture on Bibliology is 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." So, to go outside the of what God’s word says and to come up with our own interpretation or your own interpretation of the scriptures is not a good thing because then you are creating in your own mind what you believe the The Bible means to you and it’s not about that. The Bible is not a book that you open up read it put it down and then try to interpret what you thing each passage means, it is more than that, It is inerrant, life changing and giving book that shows us how to live rightly before a just and holy God, and it is God The Holy Spirit who teaches and guides us into all the truth of Gods word.
This man is a blasphemer and needs to repent, and to return to the Orthodox Church.
It's really surprising to listen to him. For being immersed in a intellectual environment he is very uneducated in actual biblical scholarship. Paul was chosen by Jesus because he was the greatest Hebrew scholar of his time. Able to open up the scriptures like nobody else really could. Peter says as much in calling others to listen to him as authoritative. Frankie's dad should have made sure he got a competent biblical education !!
2000 years ago a charismatic rabbi may have caught peoples attention. During the next 1200 years they made him the son of God. And every Christian just assumes that it is true.
Your materialistic realism and your latent neo-Arianism are leading you astray.
@@fansofst.maximustheconfess8226 My "material realism" is no more than a reading of established historical facts and I don't believe in the supernatural in any manner. Your pretentious prose gets you nowhere.
But please read Bart Ehrman's works/blogs for a scholarly treatment of the NT. It supports what you're saying and you don't have to lose your mystical instincts to it. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Wrong, Jesus did NOT dispute, undermine, or contradict the Torah; in fact He said "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved" Matt. 5:18. And when correcting Satan's devious misquotes of scripture, Jesus said in Matt 4:4-10 “No! The Scriptures say," and “The Scriptures also say", and finally “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say". Or when He ACCURATELY quoted God's word when challenged by the Pharisees, Sadducees, & Priests. This man is simply explaining and excusing his own PHILOSOPHY. We are called by the Word of God to BELIEVE ON HIS WORD THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND THE ONLY WAY OF SALVATION. When someone does not believe your word, how does that make you feel, especially if they have NO reason to doubt you are telling the truth or will do as you promise? Now think, how will you explain to God that you just couldn't trust Him to keep His word or that some man convinced you that the Word of God just couldn't be trusted? Therefore if you DON'T BELIEVE the Scriptures, you WILL BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is NOT who He said He is! THAT is Frank Schaeffer's REAL MESSAGE, from the ATHEIST THAT BELIEVES IN GOD. Which god, the god of this world, because to believe in GOD you have to believe His word and he just told you he doesn't didn't he? Paul wrote to the Galatians concerned that they were being lead into another gospel and to believe in another Jesus, turning away to follow deceiving liars claiming that just trusting in Jesus just wasn't enough for salvation. Man's philosophy or God's word. The choice is yours, chose wisely, chose life.
Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. Do not trust anyone who puts themself above the Word of God. He should be ashamed calling himself an atheist, and trying to confuse people with that.
You have to choose: Either 'man decides truth' or God's Word is truth (John 17).
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 1, 25
You just don’t like accountability! You’re a feel good, non confrontational, that allows unprincipled behavior at the expense of the community. Culture has to stand on a higher value to be able to serve. Tolerance of depravity and spiritual blindness can only serve the lesser moral laws.
He reads the Bible as mere literature work with his atheistic and agnostic mind. It's pathetic that this is what Schaeffer's son grew up to be. The Lord have mercy on him, but it's better he canvasses his opinions on his own name.
Elisha Oluwafemi he needs prayer
I am happy that he was able to (like me) break away from Bronze Age superstition.
Frankie, wow, I do hope you know Christ as Savior and Lord. With that said, you are the direct antithesis of your father; who was a great man; a genius, and a true believer in the fundamental, plenary and evangelistic truth of the bible; both old and new. One day your tears of remorse and shame is going to consume your soul. I pray this realization to repentance happens before your arrival to Heaven
I miss Frankie’s father.
Christ isn’t portrayed in a flawed book. Frankie sees things through his lens, not Thus Saith The Lord.
He apparently doesn’t believe in the inspiration of the Scriptures
If the Scripture points us to Christ, and it is flawed, who is to say the Christ of the Scripture is perfect?
It’s unfortunate, but Frankie’s thinking is flawed
There were Christians for hundreds of years before there was a "Bible". We worship a Trinity, not a book.
@@williammcguire130
You are correct: we worship the God of the Scriptures who incidentally reveals Himself to us in those very Scriptures
What point are you trying to make? That we all have our ‘own truth’ about God?
@@biffalobull2335 No, that the Scriptures aren't God they're the product of the Ancient Church and Protestants tend to idolize the book which is less important than the author of the book.
@@williammcguire130
The Scripture is a product of the Holy Spirit directing men. If He is the Author, doesn’t that make it authoritative?
What is your denominational background ?
@@biffalobull2335 But human understanding and interpretation are by necessity limited and that's we have a Tradition of interpretation housed within a Church to guide us. The Book cannot supplant the Church any more than it could supplant the Spirit.
I was raised Catholic, spent some time investigating a lot lot lot of Christian expressions and ended up Orthodox so I guess I'm pre denominational because that term implies Protestantism.
Frank Schaeffer is wrong about Jesus being perfect. Jesus Christ was a messenger of God and a human being. Jesus was imperfect but better than all other people in the World and much better than some of them.
Jesus is God.
That's what John calls the spirit of antichrist, folks!
He looks like a non-practicing protestant.
God is cruel.
Shafer everything is context and you're being quite liberal in your interpretation to the point of being erroneous in your conclusion. You certainly are sounding like an emotional liberal at this point, no wonder you're confused at the proper context.
Wasn’t Jesus a liberal and radical social justice warrior of his day who fought against the stranglehold that the wealthy religious hierarchies of his day had on his people. Didn’t he care about the least of us first? If he had been a conservative of his day, we wouldn’t be here as Christians. And, he would rebel just as strongly at the attitudes conservative Christian’s have today as he did then. And, of course, the church wouldn’t recognize him and would probably kill him for messing with the status quo as they did then.
You're lost my friend honestly when you truly repent let go of everybody everything whatever you give your heart to your God the Bible says the things are God of foolishness to the Natural man and you're trying to figure out the Bible with the natural mind sorry my friend you're lost many are called few are chosen narrow is the road that leads to life and few there be that find it to know the love of Christ that passes all knowledge that he is able to do exceedingly abundantly more than you can think or ask according to the power that worketh in you there is a man that knows the Lord I'm talking of experience