For all the comments about diving infinity in half: you have to understand, this is fiction. There's no feasible way within our realm of understanding how a Celestialsapian can exist in the first place, none-the-less have their powers cut in half. But this explanation is a way to show that if it COULD be possible to spit infinity, this is a visual explanation on how to do so. I actually got this explanation from a source I will link below, and I think it can also be applied to Ben 10's manor of science fiction. If you don't like the explanation, there's still two other theories in this video that you can choose. However, if you want to claim that you can't cut a Celestialsapian's powers in half solely because the mathematical explanation doesn't make sense, then you're watching the wrong show. LINK: www.hoodedutilitarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Inf.jpg
Here is your idea on infinity worded a little differently: 1) character A has an infinite number of possible uses of their powers. 2) character A's powers can be numbered. Example: power No #284 can see all universes at the same time, Power No #285 can prevent things you see from being destroyed provided the destruction is limited to what you see. 3) now explain how character A is still infinite even when they can only use odd numbered abilities. 4) while character A has only odd numbered abilities they can't stop a Multiverse bomb using power No #285 like they would normally be able to because they currently can't pair it with ability #284. 5) even if a character B has both power No #284 and power No #285, and as a result CAN use power No #285 to stop a Multiverse bomb, it doesn't prove they have any power advantage over character A while character A can only use his odd numbered abilities. It just means character A should try a different method to stop the bomb than their "normal" method. I am not saying this is EXACTLY why Alien X was defeated here. This is just an oversimplification to why somebody with half their "infinite" powers might not be able to do what they think they can on their first try. I am saying it is entirely possible Alien X has what we might think of as "methods" of solving problems. In their minds they think: to fix this I'll do the usual method of doing some "X" also "Y" and little of "Z." If there is some "methodology" as we understand that idea to Alien X's powers: this could be a weakness if their power is combined/ mixed up with another power in some events. Maybe doing whatever "Y" is in this case functions a little differently resulting in what we observe as a temporary performance issues. As I am writing this I am slowly coming to the conclusion that this is still the weakest of the 3 ideas. Ben should really learn to have more backup strats if this is true, this explanation doesn't account for why ben couldn't have tried an infinite number of solutions at the same time since the bomb didn't work instantly.
My headcanon for celestialsapian fusions is that it just takes a finite sample of alien X's power and gives it to whatever alien its fusing with. Like imagine a celestialsapians powers as an infinite ocean and the biomnitrix fusions as the bucket that gets filled by said ocean. It makes sense for Ben 10 and for maths as a whole. That's my interpretation anyway but I'm biased into making it work in a real world mathematical because I've been studying constantly for my maths finals so I'm definitely more prone to analysing things mathematically at the moment lol.
I would like to say that how u explained the infinity of natural number being greater than infinity of even or odd number is a little wrong by my understanding. They r actually the same. All three infinity scales to same level. even, odd and positive nature number have same lvl of infinity. If you can't understand how think of it like this. Take the help of concept called bijection. Pair up every nature number with its multiple of two. For each positive natural no. You will have its positive multiple of two. Whether it is 1, 2, 6, 10,1000000 or ♾️ all these positive no. Will have their own multiple of two and hence will have a bijection or will be paired up. Therefore this tells us as long as natural no. line goes, the separate even or odd no. line goes just as long. This also tells us that all the infinity of natural no are same. What I mean by this is ♾️+1 is not greater then ♾️. They r same. Any amount of addition of positive natural no. to infinity will be same as the previous infinity. The infinity of real no. is what's bigger than natural no. infinity. Real no. r any number u can think of including fractional. Natural don't have fraction.
So theoretically this explanation of atomic x having half the power of atomic x is definitely false. And I think your source video should also be wrong if it explained infinity to you like this. No hate or whatever. I am just fascinated by concept of infinity.
In the first place, there isnt even any such thing as infinity in real life. There is only the universe and everything it encompasses. If its power is "infinite" then all it simply means is that its power is equal to all energy in the universe.
There is something else to cutting infinity in half. Regardless if you cut infinity in half it will eventually reach all possible co figurative even without the same set of numbers because the values of such numbers are infinite. If the theory of how light works is true from the moment it is created it is also destroyed. To a particle of light's perspective it would seem like it never existed at all even though it stretches to infinity. Dividing that in half would just produce the same effect though the reaction to the effect could be longer or shorter depending on what exactly was taken away. In the end doing that combo might also belike a safety lock that makes Ben exist regardless of the outcome.
Theory 3 makes the most sense to me. Anything with Ben 10K (at least in Omniverse) and Paradox usually means to me in a certain sum of words, “Ah shit, here we go again.”
Yeah and when you take a look at the whole series up to that point, there's a lot of evidence to support it as it makes sense both in universe and characterization, as ben 10k has always followed the events as they unfolded before (in his prospective at least) and never once tried to change it
Never have I heard about the sacrifice perspective until now but I love it and it’s my favorite option now. I love the idea of Ben maturing to the point he realizes he has to die for everything to work out and fully accepting it.
Even when ben was just a teenager he would still sacrifise himself for the greater good. There is an episode of ultimate alien when the ultimates gained consciousness and decided to rebel against Ben. Ben decided to sacrifise himself for those ultimates so they can be free. I don't remember the name of the episode.
@@theflamingarrow1833 True, that is a very valid example, honestly during this I forgot about Ultimate Sacrifice. Tho I believe my point still stands for his character as a whole
I like the idea that young Ben Prime sees Ben 10K punch the bomb, then when he grows up and reaches this point thinks "I don't know why i punched that, but I did so must be important" and does it again, and after enough time loops simply doesn't know anymore
Don't forget ben creates a new future timeline every time he meets his future self Ben prime may not experience the ben civil war again when he's grown older
@@Glitchy588Livewhile normally true, this future vsriant is part of a time loop and henceforth is unable to change, we also know that outside forces (likely the time loop itself) forces ben to become this ben 10K
@---oq5kb every futures his true future until he meets said future Hell due to the oddity of time In ben ten, Ben 10k from omni could go back to the past during uaf and then meet an alternate future of himself
Ben 10K sacrificing himself to preserve the timeline was an option I thought of before but didn't entirely like until this video. Now I think it makes the most sense out of the three and is actually a really good way on keeping continuity when it comes to the series' timeline shenanigans.
Nope. Ben 10K had no knowledge of the Time Loop. Just like he didn't have any knowledge that his son was Chrono Spanner until the second to last episode of Omniverse. It was just all of Paradox's time shenanigans. It wouldn't surprise me that Paradox already knew what was going to happen. He knew that Ben 10K was going to suggest Clockwork, and explained the Sotobro effect so No Watch Ben would get the idea to use Clockwork and reverse the Time Bomb's effect. Paradox also purposely left No Watch Ben out of the fight until after the Time Bomb exploded so No Watch Ben could reverse it back. If Ben 10K knew about the Time Bomb, why didn't he just turn into Clockwork or a hybrid fusion of Clockwork and reverse the Time Bomb's effect himself? Ben 10K correctly guessed after seeing Gwen 10, Ben 23 and No Watch Ben that it involved alternate versions of Omnitrix wielders. C'mon, it's a cliché in plot devices.
@@Animeaddiction Well they did say that they had to preserve the timeline. Ben 10K could've done that yes, but in doing so the time loop would be broken and as Paradox said "Things would get worse before they get better."
@@colegaming5849 Paradox said that because he KNEW what was going to happen, not because if Ben 10K were to do something. Remember that Paradox is completely free from the effects of time itself. Sort of like the Reverse Flash. Remember when they first met with the Professor Paradox in Alien Force? They met with a 'future' version of Paradox when he failed to save the Earth. "Well, I certainly hope you do better than I did." Professor Paradox is able to move all the way to the beginning of Time and to its end. He couldn't go to that White Void because time had not yet begun. It was only after the universe was created and time began that he could. Also keep in mind that Paradox is allowed 'do-overs' like in Let Do the Time War Over. So trying to change a predestined time loop is irrelevant since Paradox can just go back and fix what went wrong. So no, Ben 10K didn't sacrifice himself. He was just being as reckless and headstrong as usual. They really dumbed Ben down in Omniverse and he didn't grow up too much as Ben 10K in the Omniverse's future.
@@Animeaddiction I wouldn't say he was being headstrong, it would be more accurate to say that he was acting on impulse to try and stop the calamity that was before him. It should also be noted that Ben prime also seemed to be sacrificing himself so that No Watch Ben would receive his Omnitrix. One possibility is that the writers intended to do more with No Watch Ben and Ben Prime and Ben 10k were working to try and help this Ben to find his path to being a hero for one reason or another.
@homerman76 No, Ben Prime only threw himself in front of No Watch Ben in a futile attempt to protect him. He didn't plan on giving him the Omnitrix. It just fell off as he became immaterial, and it latched onto No Watch Ben. I know this because later, No Watch Ben easily took off the Omnitrix to give it back to Ben Prime. Ben Prime could have done the same thing instead of throwing himself in front of Ben Prime. Way too convoluted to be planned.
I've always been of the belief that fusing any alien with Alien X would be redundant for a celestial sapien since they could do whatever that alien could just by choosing to. I like to think that fusing Alien X with another species just increases that species' abilities to a cosmic level.
Agreed it would be redundant for an actual celestial sapien but not for Ben. Fusing lets him bypass Serena & Bellicus. Because going full celestial sapien leaves him basically comatose while he's stuck trying to convince Serena & Bellicus.
It makes atomic x more deadly. Maybe fusing both aliens would causes atomix radiation bombs to sky rocket to Cosmic star power bombs. Which is dangerous meaning he could send ripples of black holes in space I he unlocked that potential Or punch through time
Ben 10K knowing about it does speak to how Ben works. He notices small details that don’t always appear relevant. No Watch Ben having a variant hoodie may be something he’d recognize along with the fact that he’s dealt with his past self before so a reintroduction would have tipped him off to which one he could be dealing with. Paradox is not the most up front kind of guy so it gives the work for Ben to pay more attention to everything around him when Paradox IS involved.
then how would you explain the fact that he every time Ben sees his future it changes. orginal universe Ben already knows about Ben 10K so it doesn't make sense as orginal Ben's future would have already changed which means Ben 10K shouldn't be knowning about this. We have already seen this in UAF episode Ben 1000 returns as future Ben doesn't know who Eon is. Because if he already knew that it was going to happen then we would if done something different. even profesor paradox was shocked by this.
A theory I had is that by sacrificing the near infinite power of Atomic X he weakened the Chronosapian Time bomb just enough to be reversible by a "normal" Chronosapian like no watch Ben's Clockwork.
Watching this Video I considered the exact same theory. He basically charged the energy just right to make it reversable. Alien X is universal+ but he's not Omniversal. He can't change all universes and thus not surpass the bomb. However, if he altered the bomb to be able to be reversed, then it would do some work.
@@lucielm wait- if the bomb is omniversal/multiversal level in terms of what it can do wouldn't that mean Atomic-X would have to be near that power to be able to alter the blast? genuinely asking because I don't quite know how the power would scale in comparison to the time bomb, *assuming* that Atomic-X *did* weaken the blast
@@rydergolde3169he didnt do anything to the bomb . He let the future be untouched,since that is the only way no omnitrix ben becomes the hero he wants to be . So for the future of no omnitrix ben , he sacrifices himself knowing he will eventually be back. Or he would not have introduced clockwork in the first place.he knew what he was up against .
@@azreal4062 no I'm not arguing whether 10K did anything or not I'm trying to figure out, given [@lucielm]'s comment, how powerful actually is Atomic-X luci suggested that Atomic-X *weakened* the time blast in order for No Watch to *be able to reverse it in the first place* my thought was, if that's true, then wouldn't Atomic-X need to be *at least* at an omniversal level in order to weaken it? basically- we know Ben 10K didn't undo the bomb because time loop we *don't* know whether Atomic-X's punch *actually* did something or not, given how Clockwork is significantly weaker than Alien X (and by extension, Atomic-X) assuming Atomic-X *did* weaken the time blast, would that not place him at some level of multiversal?
That's what I love about Paradox's character. As all knowing as he is, Paradox knows some things have to happen, people have to make mistakes and die because that is what they were meant to do and changes can cause disasterous ripples. Also you can be quite calm and cheeky when you have knowledge of everything.
Paradox isn't all knowing he himself states that there are things he doesn't and didn't realize are happening (he couldn't find vilgax and eon. Not to mention the stuff with eon.).
Paradox just has a perfect playthrough going and doesn't want any changes to ruin it. There could well be better choices and outcomes but Paradox already has what he considers a good run going so he doesn't want to change it and break everything. If he does the easy thing now it would result in him having to deal with something more troublesome later.
It’s technically wrong, according to set theory, the set of all natural numbers is mathematically still the same size as the set of all even/odd numbers, this is because they are both countably infinite sets as opposed to all decimal numbers which are uncountably infinite because you can’t even begin to count them
1:13 I don't think the logic of 50% to 50% alien power works here. Diamond Matter, Heat Jaws and Stink Arms are three fusions which were originally created by a broken prototype Omnitrix. All three fusions are possible with the Biomnitrix. However, they might differ in aspects such as appearance, powers, and weaknesses due to the fact that there is no evidence to support the idea that the broken prototype Omnitrix creates fusions the same way as the Biomnitrix.
Another thing is that those aliens powers didn’t compliment each other in fusions, like they were bad combos just like Heat Jaws, because combining 2 opposite elements like Fire and Water is always a disaster.
@@minniemoniekookiedepends, it’s just that ripjaw's weakness is the lack of water,if Ben 10k combines heatblast and overflow(I know he’s not in the original universe but just for the combination to work) he could potentially create a new steam alien power set, and since heatblast can survive underwater and overflow having no weakness to heat it wouldn’t be detrimental
@@cheungmichealcheungkimchi1341 Yeah true, but then again a mixed alien is still weaker than the original aliens, so that’s not the only problem with hybrid aliens. Because it reduces the power by 50%, so if a hybrid of overflow and heatblast is made, it won’t have as much fire or water power as the originals. Which is why Ben has to be very smart in order to make that work to his advantage and not the opposite.
It took me so long to wrap my head around the "combining aliens actually makes their powers weaker" thing because by then I hadn't seen the show for a while and I had become a massive Dragon Ball fan and in that series fusion almost always guarantees _exponential_ increases to your powers
Well the thing is it’s like Krillian and Goku using the fusion dance if it doesn’t have the requirement for them to match power levels. It meets in the middle of the two power levels which makes Goku much weaker because Krillian dilutes them.
@@eciyahsmalls-sanders8880 fusion in dragon ball is said to make the result miles stronger than either fusees, as Gogeta said "our powers aren't just put together, they are significantly magnified" A fusion like Gogeta or Vegito in base form are stronger than goku and vegeta in super saiyan blue, it's insane
4:30 - Actually, all of those infinities are the same size. You can pair every odd or even number to a positive integer and it matches up. He'll, you can pair every negative AND positive integer to the positive integers and it still matches up! A infinity greater than that exists, but it is a whole other can of worms.
My interpretation of the atomix-x fusion was that it was like a samson situation. Where Samson was given divine beyond human strength. Rather than atomix gaining half the power of alien X, he just received as much power he could while still retaining control. Remember, the biomnitrix was made for the direct intent of fusion, unlike the same fusion event that made stinkfly, who was directly harmed by being 50-50 each.
1:48 it’s kinda obvious what it does. Alien x at full power is less controllable, due it the lack of decision making. The time bomb is a time related device. So he fuses it, cutting his power in half and probably granting him more control, but due to both having time powers when they’re both in cut in half the two half’s just make a whole again. So it probably gives him more control as a fused alien x but also maintains his control of time.
I personally don't think Ben 10,000 was actually expecting to do anything, but rather panicked and just.. chose his strongest two aliens. Yeah he's a superhero but he's still susceptible to panic and it just makes him more human imo. I don't think he genuinely thought "I'm going to destroy this bomb" I think he thought "holy fuck Vilgax might actually win this time what the hell do I do"
I never understand why he use AtomX insted of clockwork+Alien X , i mean time stop+ omnipotence yes please , is way more broken than the nuclear + omnipotence setup
So I actually LOVE the idea of Ben 10k just punching the bomb to make it look like it was too powerful for him for the sake of keeping the timeline in order. Since even though he COULD stop the bomb, he knows if it's not no watch ben who does the deed than he wouldn't have gotten his watch in the first place or properly kept maltruint in the time loop prison
As a little detail,when Ben 10k was first recruited he perfectly described the situation just fro seeing the team of Bens,which could be a hint to the thing that he knew about everithing
I really like the third theory. Given that Ben 10K would already know things would turn out aright in the end would mean they don't have to worry about actually trying to win. Also with how Ben can have an ego on occasion I like the idea that Ben 10K is just constantly suppressing a smug grin knowing that Vilgax is already doomed without knowing it.
Speaking of the power cut from fusing aliens, I think a good way to work around that would be to take two aliens with similar or complimentary powers to help increase the cut strength. Four Arms and Humongusaur are both increadibly strong, so if you fused them, their strength averages out, and you get the benifit of 4 arms and size changing, though you'd only be able to get half as big as Humongosaur's max size. Now I kind of want to see Kuro make a video of the best aliens to fuse together.
Iirc four arms is a more skilled fighter (smaller frame, more arms,etc) but is weaker than humungosaur when it comes to brute strength, so if you fuse the two together you get a more rounded alien
I definitely believe in the time loop. However I believe Ben 10k transformed and attacked the explosion was because he already knew what was going to happen and just speeded things up
Oddly enough, the last theory actually makes complete sense when you explain it. Ben 10K must have known how the series of events were supposed to play out.
I’m all for the final explanation by Kuro, and I wanna take it a step further: Whenever Ben10K is dealing with a version of his past or alternative selves, he always gifts them a new alien or information about a new one. OG Ben learned of Articguana from the first meet, Atomix was namedropped in Ken’s birthday episode where he (Ken) unlocked more of his playlist, when Ultimate Ben came he reinstalled some of the lost aliens after the fight with Eon and unlocked another hidden playlist in the Omni-Ultramatrix. Then we get to this two-parter where Ben10K is showing No Watch Ben how Clockwork works (not new to the audience but new to No Watch Ben, thus it counts). Because of the timeloop, he can’t directly interfere, but he can answer some questions and help to put the idea in No Watch Ben’s mind to know of Clockwork’s transformation as something vital for the future
Damn, so it's No Watch Ben himself giving alternate versions of himself the Omnitrix but he himself doesn't have it. "I guide others to a treasure I cannot possess."
That the very first ben 10k punched the time bomb thinking that would be enough to stop it, but the very next ben 10k new what the time bomb was, and simply allowed himself to die to keep things going how they were in the very first loop
@@Goat10Solos I disagree, combining clockwork with alien x would be waste as alien x is already had mastery in timepowers and it isnt like atomix,ben cant use clockwork that fluently .
Ive been under the impression Ben 10K with the Bi-Omnitrix doesnt have the half power issue regardless of Alien X's infinite power. He's never shown to be weaker or have any issues with any alien fusions done that way
Theory 3 is def my favorite, surprisingly I never thought about the bigger significance of Ben 10k telling No Watch Ben about clockwork LOL Another amazing video and after being a fan of the channel for 2 years now ( i think ?) I finally subscribed to your Patreon! Keep up the good work Ink Tank !!
Funny enough I had one theory in my head that vilgax was right about the bomb going off and destroying the timelines but if it went off originally, the bomb would’ve destroyed all Ben’s regardless of the TL’s. My theory was Atomic-X punched it so it cannot only delay the bomb for a second but have it where no watch Ben would survive and was handed the watch by Ben prime.
This kind of videos is why i subscribed to this channel back when it was just Kuro the Artist. Super happy to see they haven't lost their charm. Thank you for consistent and enjoyable content
That last theory makes too much sense not to be the actual reason for the events in question! Good work on this video, especially since it came out so soon after the last. I guess that's what happens when you have multiple people working on separate projects for the same channel among other things.
I don't think fusions of Ben 10K cut in half. The example with Four Arms and Stinkfly only applies to one Omnitrix. The fusion feeds from one Omnitrix at that case while Ben 10K has two.
Small nitpick: the set of (positive) odd and even numbers form an infinity just as big as the set of all natural numbers, despite seemingly forming only half of it, that's easily proven by the fact that for every element of each set, you can pair it with another of the other set. However, there are infinities bigger than others, for example, the set of all real numbers is bigger than the set of all even numbers, You can't pair every even number with every real number.
I agree that he probably didn't know what was going to happen. I mean it's Ben you can give him all the tools to fix a car, that doesn't mean he knows how to fix the car. It's also in line with past mistakes like trusting kid Kevin or giving the watch to Albedo.
I always just assumed the fusion meant Ben 10,000 took Atomix's personality into the mindscape with Alien X and Atomix's arrogance lead to a rash decision
I prefer the last one, it sounds the most reasonable. Also, Ben10K might have transformed and punched the shockwave just for the fun of it. Like, the shockwave seem to have only accelerated with his punch, maybe he did that on purpose.
Well that’s… certainly interesting. From a narrative stand point the third theory makes sense, ben 10k has come along way and matured enough to make the sacrifice that possibly only he and paradox knew without a second of hesitation. It’s great character development, a bit sad that it’s still just a theory. Though it does make me wonder, did Ben 10k allow Maltruant escape? After all Ben prime and paradox were the ones who created the time loop, so does that mean that for a second time ben 10k let himself be defeated to preserve the cycle behind the backs of his family and friends?
I would have to agree with the Sacrifice option as since this version of Ben 10K is suppose to be Prime Ben's future, it would make sense that this Ben 10K would remember what happens during this fight cause he went throught it already and had a better understanding on why certain events in time must be maintained.
I like the last one especially for the reason that I like to think that in Ben 10k’s head he is thinking “so this is what it’s like to be paradox and know sh*t?”
I like to think that the reason why has a fusion with Alien X and Atomix is because in the future, something with Alien X goes bad, like, he no longer has full control, and the enemies get too strong at a point. He figures out that he can bypass this by fusioning it with another alien, and to make it as strong as possible he settles for Atomix.
My theory is that the chronosapien time bomb is a bomb that lets out some sort of energy that reverses any life form to the point where it doesn’t exist, and puts them in that prior place for all of eternity, erasing them.
You'd think that taking out all the odd numbers out of the natural numbers would mean there are half as many odd numbers as there are natural numbers but that is not the case. For an infinite set to be larger than another you wouldn't be able to pair every number of the first set to the second set. And you can assign an odd number to every natural number
I havent read it in awhile but i remember reading this wiki that said vilgax was not as powerful as alien x because the dna wasnt pure so thats why waybig could fight him
I always assumed the OS fusions being weaker was because they were caused by Ben playing violin with the omnitrix and causing it to do something it shouldn’t have
Real quick Math note: The set of all odd integers, and the set of all even integers, is the same size as the set of all integers. There are infinite sets of different sizes (countable vs uncountable infinities), but those sets are the same size.
I really like that last theory but I feel the first one makes the most sense. Ben 10k just didn’t know what it was capable of he seemed pretty shocked when he hit it and when he came back. I don’t really see a reason for him to be acting in this moments but it’s still a possibility. Great video Kuro it was a pleasant surprise
But ben 10k is still prime Ben's future (for now) so he has went through that experience atleast once before. I feel he was just playing the things as before and directly jumped into the explosion to speed things up. The confused look on his face? Probably the realization that he's gonna feel death again. Or I'm gonna go with my initial theory. Atomic x isn't as powerful as alien x. Atomic x is a powerup for atomix rather than for alien x. Another example to this is how waychuck makes upchuck more physically durable but he's not as powerful as waybig. It's a powerup for upchuck but not for waybig.
A theory I’ve always had in my head cannon is that splicing alien x with any other DNA makes the celestialsapien DNA impure and therefore no longer omnipotent (but still extremely powerful) with the tradeoff being Ben no longer having to deal with Serena and Belicus. So splicing alien x with Ben’s next most powerful alien creates his most powerful fusion which is still more powerful than any other alien including atomix, just not omnipotent anymore, while giving Ben complete control. So while I think alien x could’ve tanked the time bomb, atomic x being no longer omnipotent could not
Here's what a DragonBall fan would say "the time bomb had a bit of goku's ki and Kamehameha in it that's why atomix X wasn't able to stop it, proving that can he beat goku tho?"
Either because atomic x only has a fraction of alien X's power or because Ben 10000 didn't know what to do. No watch Ben used clockwork because despite only using him for the second time, he knew what to do and used clockwork to sense and reverse the destruction of the multiverse. So atomic x or alien x could do the same if they had full power or knew how to handle it.
@@InfinitEthanAnimations if you deep dive in alien x and ben 10 cosmology scaling, it doesn't require it, but if you simply look at stuff like that? Then yeah I can understand why you think like that.
Theory 3 makes the most sense since it's shown a little and all the side evidence supports it. Plus shows maturity to take a lose so that a bigger win can be made and keep a flow of events. Shows how despite acting like a goof ball Omniverse ben is really mature and responsible when push comes to shove.
Personally I always interpreted it Kind of like how card effects in TCGs work. 'This is a ben from another timeline outside of this one so he gets destroyed' 'this rule overrules the amount of authority alien x plus atomix has but possibly wouldn't overrule the amount of authority alien x would have on its own' Which I guess is basically the 2nd theory you talked about.
@Yudha Zacharias It does have human dna stored, but Ben couldn't use that since one species can't use the omnitrix to turn into another member of the same species
Huh, yeah, time loop makes sense. I mean, even the fact that atomix's powers are black and spacey with green around them, but when he punched the bomb it was just green. Guy didn't even try, he knew what was up.
This was answered months ago. Alien X could survive the Annihilarg because the Celestialsapiens exist outside the universe. Atomic X was vulnerable to the Chronosapien time bomb because it wiped out everything except that particular universe.
I always thought it was a panic move from Ben 10k not knowing what exactly was going on. He didn't realize that he'd be completely ineffective. He's likely been able to fix most problems by punching with Atomic X. Another thing that I thought was that someone else being Atomic X would have worked better since it wasn't a Ben performing the action. Therefore, if Max, Gwen, Kevin, Rook, etc then perhaps they would have been able to do **something** to the explosion.
I understand the part about dividing Infinity. Sure, it's still infinite, but it is now divided into equally infinite but differently useful parts. We can also theorize that Alien X is not all-powerful, because while we can have apparently(emphasis on that) infinite fractionary numbers between 0 and 1, it's still a finite portion both on beginning and end.
At 4:24 you mentioned that splitting even and odd numbers leads to a "lesser infinity", and that combining them leads to the greater infinity of all integer numbers. Both the even and odd infinities are **just as great** as when they are put together. They are all the same classification of infinity, so they are all "equal" on an infinite scale.
Gotta remember that if Ben 10K has full control of Atomic X, there’s a human controlling that, and as humans we sometimes do the wrong things under pressure. I’m sure if you saw a big red energy wave approaching you, your first reaction wouldn’t be to Alien X it away. Then again, it probably wouldn’t be to punch it either. Idk we all got Fight or Flight, 10K chose Fight, the rest went Flight
My favorite theory is the first one. The “deliberate sacrifice” theory, while interesting, seems unlikely from a Doylist perspective, since then I’d expect more obvious hints towards it within the show itself. It works from a Watsonian perspective though, but I’d prefer a theory that works from both angles. By contrast, the “halved infinity” one doesn’t work from a Watsonian perspective, since while there are different sizes of infinities, halving an infinity creates an infinity of the same size. To use your example of separating the even and odd numbers: you can prove that the number of whole numbers equals the number of even numbers by matching each whole number with an even number (1 matches with 2; 2 matches with 4; 3 matches with 6; 4 matches with 8; etc). I can believe that was the Doylist explanation, since it’s fairly unintuitive, but again, I’d prefer something that explains it both ways. The “he underestimated it” theory works both in-universe for the reasons you explained, and from a writing perspective since that’s a common way of getting OP characters out of the way for the plot to happen.
My theory (theory 4) is that the biomnitrix making fusions only has half for each dna and there wasn't enough alien x dna to stop the time bomb explosion and the atomix dna was mostly trying to get rid of it
Tbh I believe that instead of Omnipotence being an issue or stuff like that because of the fusion I believe that each Celestialsapien fusion merely gets a Cosmic typed power boost for example we know Atomic X gets normal powers but they are enhanced in power with him getting a few bonus powers like making small wormholes like he did to Vilgax or teleporting but nothing OP like making new universes just by thinking it like another possible example is by say a Heatblast X as a baby Pyronite can get supernova temperatures just by a tantrum and an adult one can probably do that at ease but a fusion would enhance those flames to new levels as well as probably giving similar buffs like Atomic X
I don't think Theory #3 holds up, mostly because Ben 10k seems genuinely surprised at what happened and when it gets reversed. I think it's something like a mixture of #1 and #2. Atomic X doesn't even necessarily has to have 50% of Alien X's powers. Messing with genetics will sometimes result in less than the sum of its parts. It was the whole point of Dr. Animo and the Mutant Ray. I'd gather Atomic X is way weaker than Alien X because the DNA is so unballanced between the two that I don't think the structure of his body could hold the power of a Celestialsapien. It's not math, it's compatibility to get as much value out of each DNA, and I don't think anything is truly compatible with Alien X. He's shown to be pretty succeptible to things like changes in time like when he battled Maltruant. He's pretty consistently outclassed by Chronosapiens. I think he's just Atomix with a couple of extra hax up his sleeve.
What you said about Ben 10k in the beginning was true but you also have to realize that he doesn't remember his past that much for Eg. During the first pt. of the finally Ben 10k genuinely wanted to help Ben prime stop maltruant but paradox stopped and by that point proving Ben 10k does not remember much about the past so theory #3 does still hold up
The 3rd solution makes more sense actually since the whole time loop but what adds more to it is after ben and his younger self get their minds swapped back to normal (forgetting the event happened) ben 10k comes in explaining about the time war which hints at the loop happening
I just watched the episode where Ben goes to Gwen’s college and the guy she’s protecting is named Dante the same guy who looks like the one in captain underpants animated series
I also think this could work for a theory, that Celestialsapians are still able to be affected by time, we know that Celestians are able to be born and age, meaning that they can be effected by time, and also use it, meaning that the bomb could affect a celestialsapian
No that's false bud. 1.The Celestialsapiens literally live outside time and space,a universe in Ben 10 contains infinite timelines and is infinite itself. 2.They aging and being born means pretty much nothing,they literally exist outside of time and space. 3.The bom won't affect them for said reasons,it didn't affect Paradox who's literally from the main universe. Yet he lived.
I don’t remember which video but I do remember Kuro saying something about combining atomic with alien X just increases atomic power, but not to the same levels alien X
For all the comments about diving infinity in half: you have to understand, this is fiction. There's no feasible way within our realm of understanding how a Celestialsapian can exist in the first place, none-the-less have their powers cut in half. But this explanation is a way to show that if it COULD be possible to spit infinity, this is a visual explanation on how to do so. I actually got this explanation from a source I will link below, and I think it can also be applied to Ben 10's manor of science fiction. If you don't like the explanation, there's still two other theories in this video that you can choose. However, if you want to claim that you can't cut a Celestialsapian's powers in half solely because the mathematical explanation doesn't make sense, then you're watching the wrong show.
LINK: www.hoodedutilitarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Inf.jpg
Here is your idea on infinity worded a little differently:
1) character A has an infinite number of possible uses of their powers.
2) character A's powers can be numbered. Example: power No #284 can see all universes at the same time, Power No #285 can prevent things you see from being destroyed provided the destruction is limited to what you see.
3) now explain how character A is still infinite even when they can only use odd numbered abilities.
4) while character A has only odd numbered abilities they can't stop a Multiverse bomb using power No #285 like they would normally be able to because they currently can't pair it with ability #284.
5) even if a character B has both power No #284 and power No #285, and as a result CAN use power No #285 to stop a Multiverse bomb, it doesn't prove they have any power advantage over character A while character A can only use his odd numbered abilities. It just means character A should try a different method to stop the bomb than their "normal" method.
I am not saying this is EXACTLY why Alien X was defeated here. This is just an oversimplification to why somebody with half their "infinite" powers might not be able to do what they think they can on their first try. I am saying it is entirely possible Alien X has what we might think of as "methods" of solving problems. In their minds they think: to fix this I'll do the usual method of doing some "X" also "Y" and little of "Z." If there is some "methodology" as we understand that idea to Alien X's powers: this could be a weakness if their power is combined/ mixed up with another power in some events.
Maybe doing whatever "Y" is in this case functions a little differently resulting in what we observe as a temporary performance issues. As I am writing this I am slowly coming to the conclusion that this is still the weakest of the 3 ideas.
Ben should really learn to have more backup strats if this is true, this explanation doesn't account for why ben couldn't have tried an infinite number of solutions at the same time since the bomb didn't work instantly.
My headcanon for celestialsapian fusions is that it just takes a finite sample of alien X's power and gives it to whatever alien its fusing with.
Like imagine a celestialsapians powers as an infinite ocean and the biomnitrix fusions as the bucket that gets filled by said ocean. It makes sense for Ben 10 and for maths as a whole.
That's my interpretation anyway but I'm biased into making it work in a real world mathematical because I've been studying constantly for my maths finals so I'm definitely more prone to analysing things mathematically at the moment lol.
I would like to say that how u explained the infinity of natural number being greater than infinity of even or odd number is a little wrong by my understanding.
They r actually the same. All three infinity scales to same level. even, odd and positive nature number have same lvl of infinity.
If you can't understand how think of it like this. Take the help of concept called bijection.
Pair up every nature number with its multiple of two.
For each positive natural no. You will have its positive multiple of two.
Whether it is 1, 2, 6, 10,1000000 or ♾️ all these positive no. Will have their own multiple of two and hence will have a bijection or will be paired up.
Therefore this tells us as long as natural no. line goes, the separate even or odd no. line goes just as long.
This also tells us that all the infinity of natural no are same. What I mean by this is ♾️+1 is not greater then ♾️. They r same. Any amount of addition of positive natural no. to infinity will be same as the previous infinity.
The infinity of real no. is what's bigger than natural no. infinity.
Real no. r any number u can think of including fractional.
Natural don't have fraction.
So theoretically this explanation of atomic x having half the power of atomic x is definitely false. And I think your source video should also be wrong if it explained infinity to you like this.
No hate or whatever. I am just fascinated by concept of infinity.
In the first place, there isnt even any such thing as infinity in real life. There is only the universe and everything it encompasses. If its power is "infinite" then all it simply means is that its power is equal to all energy in the universe.
The last theory makes a lot of sense when you realize Ben 10K was the one who told no watch Ben about Clockwork
Yeah that's what really gets me. He sounds like he knew exactly what he was doing right then
Thats definitely the nail in that theory.
"Definitely taking this opportunity to make sure the kid knows which alien to use and why when the time comes"
There is something else to cutting infinity in half. Regardless if you cut infinity in half it will eventually reach all possible co figurative even without the same set of numbers because the values of such numbers are infinite.
If the theory of how light works is true from the moment it is created it is also destroyed. To a particle of light's perspective it would seem like it never existed at all even though it stretches to infinity. Dividing that in half would just produce the same effect though the reaction to the effect could be longer or shorter depending on what exactly was taken away.
In the end doing that combo might also belike a safety lock that makes Ben exist regardless of the outcome.
This makes sense to me.
Theory 3 makes the most sense to me. Anything with Ben 10K (at least in Omniverse) and Paradox usually means to me in a certain sum of words, “Ah shit, here we go again.”
accurate.
Yeah and when you take a look at the whole series up to that point, there's a lot of evidence to support it as it makes sense both in universe and characterization, as ben 10k has always followed the events as they unfolded before (in his prospective at least) and never once tried to change it
To me when Ben 10k and paradox are in any episode my thoughts are usually “ ah damnit, not this shit again!
Never have I heard about the sacrifice perspective until now but I love it and it’s my favorite option now. I love the idea of Ben maturing to the point he realizes he has to die for everything to work out and fully accepting it.
mf could have rewind time himself or give that verse' ben the alien to do it
Even when ben was just a teenager he would still sacrifise himself for the greater good. There is an episode of ultimate alien when the ultimates gained consciousness and decided to rebel against Ben. Ben decided to sacrifise himself for those ultimates so they can be free. I don't remember the name of the episode.
@@theflamingarrow1833 it’s called the ultimate sacrifice
@@Rhobeni Thanks mate
@@theflamingarrow1833 True, that is a very valid example, honestly during this I forgot about Ultimate Sacrifice. Tho I believe my point still stands for his character as a whole
I like the idea that young Ben Prime sees Ben 10K punch the bomb, then when he grows up and reaches this point thinks "I don't know why i punched that, but I did so must be important" and does it again, and after enough time loops simply doesn't know anymore
Don't forget ben creates a new future timeline every time he meets his future self
Ben prime may not experience the ben civil war again when he's grown older
@@Glitchy588Livewhile normally true, this future vsriant is part of a time loop and henceforth is unable to change, we also know that outside forces (likely the time loop itself) forces ben to become this ben 10K
@@AveryShort-kg4ptultimate Ben was also his true future, even to the point where he was directly quoting past Ben
@---oq5kb every futures his true future until he meets said future
Hell due to the oddity of time In ben ten, Ben 10k from omni could go back to the past during uaf and then meet an alternate future of himself
Ben 10K sacrificing himself to preserve the timeline was an option I thought of before but didn't entirely like until this video. Now I think it makes the most sense out of the three and is actually a really good way on keeping continuity when it comes to the series' timeline shenanigans.
Nope. Ben 10K had no knowledge of the Time Loop. Just like he didn't have any knowledge that his son was Chrono Spanner until the second to last episode of Omniverse. It was just all of Paradox's time shenanigans. It wouldn't surprise me that Paradox already knew what was going to happen. He knew that Ben 10K was going to suggest Clockwork, and explained the Sotobro effect so No Watch Ben would get the idea to use Clockwork and reverse the Time Bomb's effect. Paradox also purposely left No Watch Ben out of the fight until after the Time Bomb exploded so No Watch Ben could reverse it back.
If Ben 10K knew about the Time Bomb, why didn't he just turn into Clockwork or a hybrid fusion of Clockwork and reverse the Time Bomb's effect himself? Ben 10K correctly guessed after seeing Gwen 10, Ben 23 and No Watch Ben that it involved alternate versions of Omnitrix wielders. C'mon, it's a cliché in plot devices.
@@Animeaddiction Well they did say that they had to preserve the timeline. Ben 10K could've done that yes, but in doing so the time loop would be broken and as Paradox said "Things would get worse before they get better."
@@colegaming5849 Paradox said that because he KNEW what was going to happen, not because if Ben 10K were to do something. Remember that Paradox is completely free from the effects of time itself. Sort of like the Reverse Flash. Remember when they first met with the Professor Paradox in Alien Force? They met with a 'future' version of Paradox when he failed to save the Earth.
"Well, I certainly hope you do better than I did."
Professor Paradox is able to move all the way to the beginning of Time and to its end. He couldn't go to that White Void because time had not yet begun. It was only after the universe was created and time began that he could. Also keep in mind that Paradox is allowed 'do-overs' like in Let Do the Time War Over. So trying to change a predestined time loop is irrelevant since Paradox can just go back and fix what went wrong.
So no, Ben 10K didn't sacrifice himself. He was just being as reckless and headstrong as usual. They really dumbed Ben down in Omniverse and he didn't grow up too much as Ben 10K in the Omniverse's future.
@@Animeaddiction I wouldn't say he was being headstrong, it would be more accurate to say that he was acting on impulse to try and stop the calamity that was before him. It should also be noted that Ben prime also seemed to be sacrificing himself so that No Watch Ben would receive his Omnitrix. One possibility is that the writers intended to do more with No Watch Ben and Ben Prime and Ben 10k were working to try and help this Ben to find his path to being a hero for one reason or another.
@homerman76 No, Ben Prime only threw himself in front of No Watch Ben in a futile attempt to protect him. He didn't plan on giving him the Omnitrix. It just fell off as he became immaterial, and it latched onto No Watch Ben. I know this because later, No Watch Ben easily took off the Omnitrix to give it back to Ben Prime. Ben Prime could have done the same thing instead of throwing himself in front of Ben Prime. Way too convoluted to be planned.
I've always been of the belief that fusing any alien with Alien X would be redundant for a celestial sapien since they could do whatever that alien could just by choosing to. I like to think that fusing Alien X with another species just increases that species' abilities to a cosmic level.
yes.
Agreed it would be redundant for an actual celestial sapien but not for Ben. Fusing lets him bypass Serena & Bellicus.
Because going full celestial sapien leaves him basically comatose while he's stuck trying to convince Serena & Bellicus.
It makes atomic x more deadly.
Maybe fusing both aliens would causes atomix radiation bombs to sky rocket to Cosmic star power bombs. Which is dangerous meaning he could send ripples of black holes in space I he unlocked that potential
Or punch through time
@@MagicHamsta doesn't he have full control over alien x.
Except Atomix can't teleport buf Atomic-X can
Ben 10K knowing about it does speak to how Ben works. He notices small details that don’t always appear relevant. No Watch Ben having a variant hoodie may be something he’d recognize along with the fact that he’s dealt with his past self before so a reintroduction would have tipped him off to which one he could be dealing with. Paradox is not the most up front kind of guy so it gives the work for Ben to pay more attention to everything around him when Paradox IS involved.
Ben's detail orated. In the line of work he does he has to be, one detail can lead to either victory or defeat
Good comment *with* a good reply, that is rare
then how would you explain the fact that he every time Ben sees his future it changes. orginal universe Ben already knows about Ben 10K so it doesn't make sense as orginal Ben's future would have already changed which means Ben 10K shouldn't be knowning about this.
We have already seen this in UAF episode Ben 1000 returns as future Ben doesn't know who Eon is. Because if he already knew that it was going to happen then we would if done something different. even profesor paradox was shocked by this.
@@manavnair4218 like the man in the video said time loops
All maybe he trusted his gut instinct nd acted without thinking no head brain empty thaughts instinct epmty too
I like solution 4: ben 10k was suicidal
that's brilliant
A theory I had is that by sacrificing the near infinite power of Atomic X he weakened the Chronosapian Time bomb just enough to be reversible by a "normal" Chronosapian like no watch Ben's Clockwork.
Technically it's no watch Ben with prime bens Omnitrix
Watching this Video I considered the exact same theory. He basically charged the energy just right to make it reversable. Alien X is universal+ but he's not Omniversal. He can't change all universes and thus not surpass the bomb. However, if he altered the bomb to be able to be reversed, then it would do some work.
@@lucielm wait-
if the bomb is omniversal/multiversal level in terms of what it can do
wouldn't that mean Atomic-X would have to be near that power to be able to alter the blast?
genuinely asking because I don't quite know how the power would scale in comparison to the time bomb, *assuming* that Atomic-X *did* weaken the blast
@@rydergolde3169he didnt do anything to the bomb . He let the future be untouched,since that is the only way no omnitrix ben becomes the hero he wants to be . So for the future of no omnitrix ben , he sacrifices himself knowing he will eventually be back. Or he would not have introduced clockwork in the first place.he knew what he was up against .
@@azreal4062 no I'm not arguing whether 10K did anything or not
I'm trying to figure out, given [@lucielm]'s comment, how powerful actually is Atomic-X
luci suggested that Atomic-X *weakened* the time blast in order for No Watch to *be able to reverse it in the first place*
my thought was, if that's true, then wouldn't Atomic-X need to be *at least* at an omniversal level in order to weaken it?
basically-
we know Ben 10K didn't undo the bomb because time loop
we *don't* know whether Atomic-X's punch *actually* did something or not, given how Clockwork is significantly weaker than Alien X (and by extension, Atomic-X)
assuming Atomic-X *did* weaken the time blast, would that not place him at some level of multiversal?
That's what I love about Paradox's character. As all knowing as he is, Paradox knows some things have to happen, people have to make mistakes and die because that is what they were meant to do and changes can cause disasterous ripples. Also you can be quite calm and cheeky when you have knowledge of everything.
Paradox isn't all knowing he himself states that there are things he doesn't and didn't realize are happening (he couldn't find vilgax and eon. Not to mention the stuff with eon.).
I wonder how many loops Paradox saw turn out badly before he realized he can't interfere
Paradox just has a perfect playthrough going and doesn't want any changes to ruin it. There could well be better choices and outcomes but Paradox already has what he considers a good run going so he doesn't want to change it and break everything. If he does the easy thing now it would result in him having to deal with something more troublesome later.
I gotta give hella respect for the explanation of how to cut infinity in half using even and odd numbers
lol
It is also a great copypasta if conversations regarding power scaling get annoying, as they can do lmao
It’s technically wrong, according to set theory, the set of all natural numbers is mathematically still the same size as the set of all even/odd numbers, this is because they are both countably infinite sets as opposed to all decimal numbers which are uncountably infinite because you can’t even begin to count them
@@leithbenali lol
@@leithbenali yeah but it is still less than the infinite number itself
1:13 I don't think the logic of 50% to 50% alien power works here. Diamond Matter, Heat Jaws and Stink Arms are three fusions which were originally created by a broken prototype Omnitrix. All three fusions are possible with the Biomnitrix. However, they might differ in aspects such as appearance, powers, and weaknesses due to the fact that there is no evidence to support the idea that the broken prototype Omnitrix creates fusions the same way as the Biomnitrix.
Another thing is that those aliens powers didn’t compliment each other in fusions, like they were bad combos just like Heat Jaws, because combining 2 opposite elements like Fire and Water is always a disaster.
@@minniemoniekookiedepends, it’s just that ripjaw's weakness is the lack of water,if Ben 10k combines heatblast and overflow(I know he’s not in the original universe but just for the combination to work) he could potentially create a new steam alien power set, and since heatblast can survive underwater and overflow having no weakness to heat it wouldn’t be detrimental
@@cheungmichealcheungkimchi1341 Yeah true, but then again a mixed alien is still weaker than the original aliens, so that’s not the only problem with hybrid aliens. Because it reduces the power by 50%, so if a hybrid of overflow and heatblast is made, it won’t have as much fire or water power as the originals. Which is why Ben has to be very smart in order to make that work to his advantage and not the opposite.
It took me so long to wrap my head around the "combining aliens actually makes their powers weaker" thing because by then I hadn't seen the show for a while and I had become a massive Dragon Ball fan and in that series fusion almost always guarantees _exponential_ increases to your powers
Gg hope you ain't a blind dbs fan
Fusion in dragon ball is so overpowered its actually hilarious
@@TokyoDrift456 I mean it combined the two abilties it's supposed to be a power boost
Well the thing is it’s like Krillian and Goku using the fusion dance if it doesn’t have the requirement for them to match power levels. It meets in the middle of the two power levels which makes Goku much weaker because Krillian dilutes them.
@@eciyahsmalls-sanders8880 fusion in dragon ball is said to make the result miles stronger than either fusees, as Gogeta said "our powers aren't just put together, they are significantly magnified"
A fusion like Gogeta or Vegito in base form are stronger than goku and vegeta in super saiyan blue, it's insane
This is what convinced me
7:32
“Hm I’m gonna be erased from existence for a minute, better make sure he actually knows what to do”
I actually do really like that last idea. Time stuff is one of my favorite tropes, and I always love how Ben 10 does it
4:30 - Actually, all of those infinities are the same size. You can pair every odd or even number to a positive integer and it matches up. He'll, you can pair every negative AND positive integer to the positive integers and it still matches up!
A infinity greater than that exists, but it is a whole other can of worms.
Pinned Comment
My interpretation of the atomix-x fusion was that it was like a samson situation. Where Samson was given divine beyond human strength. Rather than atomix gaining half the power of alien X, he just received as much power he could while still retaining control.
Remember, the biomnitrix was made for the direct intent of fusion, unlike the same fusion event that made stinkfly, who was directly harmed by being 50-50 each.
Makes perfect sense. Ben 10K is probably not Ben Prime's exact future(as its always changing) and never got control of alien X as Ben Prime did
Exactly it is not an accidental fusion but an intentional one
1:48 it’s kinda obvious what it does. Alien x at full power is less controllable, due it the lack of decision making. The time bomb is a time related device. So he fuses it, cutting his power in half and probably granting him more control, but due to both having time powers when they’re both in cut in half the two half’s just make a whole again. So it probably gives him more control as a fused alien x but also maintains his control of time.
I personally don't think Ben 10,000 was actually expecting to do anything, but rather panicked and just.. chose his strongest two aliens. Yeah he's a superhero but he's still susceptible to panic and it just makes him more human imo. I don't think he genuinely thought "I'm going to destroy this bomb" I think he thought "holy fuck Vilgax might actually win this time what the hell do I do"
Yup he is older but still ben
yeah that sounds like ben, he might lose but hes not gonna be done trying to punch things until he is long dead
I never understand why he use AtomX insted of clockwork+Alien X , i mean time stop+ omnipotence yes please , is way more broken than the nuclear + omnipotence setup
If the world's at stake why not use your strongest aliens.
if smoothies is not getting destroyed dont expect him to panic
So I actually LOVE the idea of Ben 10k just punching the bomb to make it look like it was too powerful for him for the sake of keeping the timeline in order. Since even though he COULD stop the bomb, he knows if it's not no watch ben who does the deed than he wouldn't have gotten his watch in the first place or properly kept maltruint in the time loop prison
As a little detail,when Ben 10k was first recruited he perfectly described the situation just fro seeing the team of Bens,which could be a hint to the thing that he knew about everithing
IM SO GLAD he did a video on this. I also hope he does more stuff like this.
I really like the third theory. Given that Ben 10K would already know things would turn out aright in the end would mean they don't have to worry about actually trying to win. Also with how Ben can have an ego on occasion I like the idea that Ben 10K is just constantly suppressing a smug grin knowing that Vilgax is already doomed without knowing it.
I love stories like these because it shows how smart and resourceful Ben can be.
Speaking of the power cut from fusing aliens, I think a good way to work around that would be to take two aliens with similar or complimentary powers to help increase the cut strength. Four Arms and Humongusaur are both increadibly strong, so if you fused them, their strength averages out, and you get the benifit of 4 arms and size changing, though you'd only be able to get half as big as Humongosaur's max size. Now I kind of want to see Kuro make a video of the best aliens to fuse together.
Ben 10K uses Fourmungasour though, in this very episode even
Like also upgrid
@@Scorpio4890 Upgrade and Juryrigg fusion?
Or upgrade with any mechanical alien like echo echo or clockwork
Iirc four arms is a more skilled fighter (smaller frame, more arms,etc) but is weaker than humungosaur when it comes to brute strength, so if you fuse the two together you get a more rounded alien
I definitely believe in the time loop. However I believe Ben 10k transformed and attacked the explosion was because he already knew what was going to happen and just speeded things up
4:10 Arise, mathematicians on a Ben 10 video for some reason
Oddly enough, the last theory actually makes complete sense when you explain it. Ben 10K must have known how the series of events were supposed to play out.
id like to believe that his hemorrhoids just itched so bad at that moment that he yearned for sweet relief.
*Time Bomb going off and erasing the multiverse*
Ben 10k: “I just gotta hit it. Really hard.”
Goku ahh logic
Bro really used Cantor's theorem to power scale in Ben 10
I’m all for the final explanation by Kuro, and I wanna take it a step further:
Whenever Ben10K is dealing with a version of his past or alternative selves, he always gifts them a new alien or information about a new one. OG Ben learned of Articguana from the first meet, Atomix was namedropped in Ken’s birthday episode where he (Ken) unlocked more of his playlist, when Ultimate Ben came he reinstalled some of the lost aliens after the fight with Eon and unlocked another hidden playlist in the Omni-Ultramatrix. Then we get to this two-parter where Ben10K is showing No Watch Ben how Clockwork works (not new to the audience but new to No Watch Ben, thus it counts). Because of the timeloop, he can’t directly interfere, but he can answer some questions and help to put the idea in No Watch Ben’s mind to know of Clockwork’s transformation as something vital for the future
this makes so much sense.
HIT ME UP ON TELEGRAM 👆👆👆I GOT SOMETHING FOR YOU 🙏🙏.
Damn, so it's No Watch Ben himself giving alternate versions of himself the Omnitrix but he himself doesn't have it.
"I guide others to a treasure I cannot possess."
He seems quite a bit surprised as to what's happening to him after punching it
That the very first ben 10k punched the time bomb thinking that would be enough to stop it, but the very next ben 10k new what the time bomb was, and simply allowed himself to die to keep things going how they were in the very first loop
A fourth theory is by the show's creators showing how powerful the bomb is. If a fusion between Ben's strongest Aliens can't stop it, what could?
Clockwork!
Alien X and Clockwork obviously can.
Atomic-X is just weak.
@@Goat10Solos I disagree, combining clockwork with alien x would be waste as alien x is already had mastery in timepowers and it isnt like atomix,ben cant use clockwork that fluently .
The last theory makes a lot of sense when you realize Ben 10K was the one who told no watch Ben about Clockwork
@@yashbjoshi12 he didn't mean combination of clockwork and alien x, he meant both of them can.
Bro was confident, he said I can tank this blast and punch it, I'm built different
Ive been under the impression Ben 10K with the Bi-Omnitrix doesnt have the half power issue regardless of Alien X's infinite power. He's never shown to be weaker or have any issues with any alien fusions done that way
I'm chalking up the face he made to realizing "Wait a minute, spacetime's telling me that I'm not supposed to stop this."
lmfao im ded bro
Theory 3 is def my favorite, surprisingly I never thought about the bigger significance of Ben 10k telling No Watch Ben about clockwork LOL
Another amazing video and after being a fan of the channel for 2 years now ( i think ?) I finally subscribed to your Patreon! Keep up the good work Ink Tank !!
Funny enough I had one theory in my head that vilgax was right about the bomb going off and destroying the timelines but if it went off originally, the bomb would’ve destroyed all Ben’s regardless of the TL’s.
My theory was Atomic-X punched it so it cannot only delay the bomb for a second but have it where no watch Ben would survive and was handed the watch by Ben prime.
This kind of videos is why i subscribed to this channel back when it was just Kuro the Artist. Super happy to see they haven't lost their charm. Thank you for consistent and enjoyable content
That last theory makes too much sense not to be the actual reason for the events in question! Good work on this video, especially since it came out so soon after the last. I guess that's what happens when you have multiple people working on separate projects for the same channel among other things.
I'm just curious of the scenario if No-watch-Ben and Paradox had to recruit Argit 10 for some reason, how events would unfold
That last theory is so confusing, but the one that makes the most sense at the same time.
I don't think fusions of Ben 10K cut in half. The example with Four Arms and Stinkfly only applies to one Omnitrix. The fusion feeds from one Omnitrix at that case while Ben 10K has two.
Hello there
Small nitpick: the set of (positive) odd and even numbers form an infinity just as big as the set of all natural numbers, despite seemingly forming only half of it, that's easily proven by the fact that for every element of each set, you can pair it with another of the other set. However, there are infinities bigger than others, for example, the set of all real numbers is bigger than the set of all even numbers, You can't pair every even number with every real number.
Definitely 1milion IQ move of Ben 10.000
Having an intelligence of a Shounen Anime protagonist
You cannot interfere and you know why
Pitch meeting producer guy: so the episode can happen?
Pitch meeting guy: so the episode can happen
I agree that he probably didn't know what was going to happen. I mean it's Ben you can give him all the tools to fix a car, that doesn't mean he knows how to fix the car.
It's also in line with past mistakes like trusting kid Kevin or giving the watch to Albedo.
4th answer: He just wanted to punch an explosion.
Professor Paradox is the Ben 10 version of Miguel O'hara. Change my mind.
It's a Canon event
He’s a lot more willing to drop hints about the future and mess around with events, as in And Then There Was Ben
I always just assumed the fusion meant Ben 10,000 took Atomix's personality into the mindscape with Alien X and Atomix's arrogance lead to a rash decision
I prefer the last one, it sounds the most reasonable.
Also, Ben10K might have transformed and punched the shockwave just for the fun of it. Like, the shockwave seem to have only accelerated with his punch, maybe he did that on purpose.
I love the goddamn title. So snappy, to-the-point, and makes Ben 10,000 sound like a dweeb.
Great work, there!
Well that’s… certainly interesting. From a narrative stand point the third theory makes sense, ben 10k has come along way and matured enough to make the sacrifice that possibly only he and paradox knew without a second of hesitation. It’s great character development, a bit sad that it’s still just a theory.
Though it does make me wonder, did Ben 10k allow Maltruant escape? After all Ben prime and paradox were the ones who created the time loop, so does that mean that for a second time ben 10k let himself be defeated to preserve the cycle behind the backs of his family and friends?
Probably
Bro the third option is actual really cool, I would love to agree with any of these Theories
I would have to agree with the Sacrifice option as since this version of Ben 10K is suppose to be Prime Ben's future, it would make sense that this Ben 10K would remember what happens during this fight cause he went throught it already and had a better understanding on why certain events in time must be maintained.
And is the only future not erased
Ben's future never changes in Omniverse so yeah,it is very much possible that it is a time loop
HIT ME UP ON TELEGRAM 👆👆👆I GOT SOMETHING FOR YOU 🙏🙏..
It's good to see old style videos again
I like the last one especially for the reason that I like to think that in Ben 10k’s head he is thinking “so this is what it’s like to be paradox and know sh*t?”
I like to think that the reason why has a fusion with Alien X and Atomix is because in the future, something with Alien X goes bad, like, he no longer has full control, and the enemies get too strong at a point. He figures out that he can bypass this by fusioning it with another alien, and to make it as strong as possible he settles for Atomix.
HIT ME UP ON TELEGRAM 👆👆👆I GOT SOMETHING FOR YOU 🙏🙏.
My theory is that the chronosapien time bomb is a bomb that lets out some sort of energy that reverses any life form to the point where it doesn’t exist, and puts them in that prior place for all of eternity, erasing them.
You'd think that taking out all the odd numbers out of the natural numbers would mean there are half as many odd numbers as there are natural numbers but that is not the case. For an infinite set to be larger than another you wouldn't be able to pair every number of the first set to the second set.
And you can assign an odd number to every natural number
I havent read it in awhile but i remember reading this wiki that said vilgax was not as powerful as alien x because the dna wasnt pure so thats why waybig could fight him
I always assumed the OS fusions being weaker was because they were caused by Ben playing violin with the omnitrix and causing it to do something it shouldn’t have
Real quick Math note: The set of all odd integers, and the set of all even integers, is the same size as the set of all integers. There are infinite sets of different sizes (countable vs uncountable infinities), but those sets are the same size.
I really like that last theory but I feel the first one makes the most sense. Ben 10k just didn’t know what it was capable of he seemed pretty shocked when he hit it and when he came back. I don’t really see a reason for him to be acting in this moments but it’s still a possibility. Great video Kuro it was a pleasant surprise
But ben 10k is still prime Ben's future (for now) so he has went through that experience atleast once before. I feel he was just playing the things as before and directly jumped into the explosion to speed things up. The confused look on his face? Probably the realization that he's gonna feel death again.
Or I'm gonna go with my initial theory. Atomic x isn't as powerful as alien x. Atomic x is a powerup for atomix rather than for alien x. Another example to this is how waychuck makes upchuck more physically durable but he's not as powerful as waybig. It's a powerup for upchuck but not for waybig.
I literally hear everyone talk or joke about that like “30% of infinity is still infinity.” And “Hey what’s half of infinity? IN-F***IN-FINITY!”
A theory I’ve always had in my head cannon is that splicing alien x with any other DNA makes the celestialsapien DNA impure and therefore no longer omnipotent (but still extremely powerful) with the tradeoff being Ben no longer having to deal with Serena and Belicus. So splicing alien x with Ben’s next most powerful alien creates his most powerful fusion which is still more powerful than any other alien including atomix, just not omnipotent anymore, while giving Ben complete control. So while I think alien x could’ve tanked the time bomb, atomic x being no longer omnipotent could not
Here's what a DragonBall fan would say "the time bomb had a bit of goku's ki and Kamehameha in it that's why atomix X wasn't able to stop it, proving that can he beat goku tho?"
Damn, the power-scaling & these theories are insane!
i love the sacrifice theory. it turns Ben 10,000 from a dolt or sucker to a genius
Either because atomic x only has a fraction of alien X's power or because Ben 10000 didn't know what to do. No watch Ben used clockwork because despite only using him for the second time, he knew what to do and used clockwork to sense and reverse the destruction of the multiverse. So atomic x or alien x could do the same if they had full power or knew how to handle it.
It doesn't require full power
@@professorparadox795 it does require intention on how to handle it.
@@InfinitEthanAnimations if you deep dive in alien x and ben 10 cosmology scaling, it doesn't require it, but if you simply look at stuff like that? Then yeah I can understand why you think like that.
Theory 3 makes the most sense since it's shown a little and all the side evidence supports it. Plus shows maturity to take a lose so that a bigger win can be made and keep a flow of events. Shows how despite acting like a goof ball Omniverse ben is really mature and responsible when push comes to shove.
Personally I always interpreted it Kind of like how card effects in TCGs work. 'This is a ben from another timeline outside of this one so he gets destroyed' 'this rule overrules the amount of authority alien x plus atomix has but possibly wouldn't overrule the amount of authority alien x would have on its own' Which I guess is basically the 2nd theory you talked about.
Ben 10k already knowing what has to happen in order for the timeline to continue as it should actually makes complete sense, great vid
Anyone remember in the episode where we saw Argit with the Omnitrix? I wonder what his human form would look like... would it be Ben??
I doubt it. The Omnitrix stores many DNAs but not human DNA
@@yudhazacharias9377 it has human dna
@Yudha Zacharias It does have human dna stored, but Ben couldn't use that since one species can't use the omnitrix to turn into another member of the same species
@@Dylkill99 unless the two types of the same species are different enough
@@Dylkill99 oh okay, sorry guys. Haven't dived deep into this stuff
Huh, yeah, time loop makes sense. I mean, even the fact that atomix's powers are black and spacey with green around them, but when he punched the bomb it was just green. Guy didn't even try, he knew what was up.
makes sense.
This was answered months ago. Alien X could survive the Annihilarg because the Celestialsapiens exist outside the universe. Atomic X was vulnerable to the Chronosapien time bomb because it wiped out everything except that particular universe.
That’s why Atomic X is bound by time while Alien X is not
Celestialsapiens exists outside of time and space
If Alien X would have been able to survive the explosion, wouldn't have his omnitrix transformed him into pure Alien X?
Man I can't wait for him to get to that episode it's worth the wait!
Ben 10 Omniverse: Ben 10k punches and bomb and fucking dies
I always thought it was a panic move from Ben 10k not knowing what exactly was going on. He didn't realize that he'd be completely ineffective. He's likely been able to fix most problems by punching with Atomic X. Another thing that I thought was that someone else being Atomic X would have worked better since it wasn't a Ben performing the action. Therefore, if Max, Gwen, Kevin, Rook, etc then perhaps they would have been able to do **something** to the explosion.
Honestly. I’ve never seen this Ben 10 series but the title gave me a chuckle and watched the whole thing because of that.
I understand the part about dividing Infinity.
Sure, it's still infinite, but it is now divided into equally infinite but differently useful parts.
We can also theorize that Alien X is not all-powerful, because while we can have apparently(emphasis on that) infinite fractionary numbers between 0 and 1, it's still a finite portion both on beginning and end.
Alien X is powerful than y’all think..
At 4:24 you mentioned that splitting even and odd numbers leads to a "lesser infinity", and that combining them leads to the greater infinity of all integer numbers. Both the even and odd infinities are **just as great** as when they are put together. They are all the same classification of infinity, so they are all "equal" on an infinite scale.
Gotta remember that if Ben 10K has full control of Atomic X, there’s a human controlling that, and as humans we sometimes do the wrong things under pressure.
I’m sure if you saw a big red energy wave approaching you, your first reaction wouldn’t be to Alien X it away.
Then again, it probably wouldn’t be to punch it either. Idk we all got Fight or Flight, 10K chose Fight, the rest went Flight
Ben: "Must. Fulfill. Heroic. Sacrifice."
My favorite theory is the first one.
The “deliberate sacrifice” theory, while interesting, seems unlikely from a Doylist perspective, since then I’d expect more obvious hints towards it within the show itself. It works from a Watsonian perspective though, but I’d prefer a theory that works from both angles.
By contrast, the “halved infinity” one doesn’t work from a Watsonian perspective, since while there are different sizes of infinities, halving an infinity creates an infinity of the same size. To use your example of separating the even and odd numbers: you can prove that the number of whole numbers equals the number of even numbers by matching each whole number with an even number (1 matches with 2; 2 matches with 4; 3 matches with 6; 4 matches with 8; etc). I can believe that was the Doylist explanation, since it’s fairly unintuitive, but again, I’d prefer something that explains it both ways.
The “he underestimated it” theory works both in-universe for the reasons you explained, and from a writing perspective since that’s a common way of getting OP characters out of the way for the plot to happen.
Ben 10k prob had the idea from paradox when he was going to teach him the omnitrix and showed him clockwork
My theory (theory 4) is that the biomnitrix making fusions only has half for each dna and there wasn't enough alien x dna to stop the time bomb explosion and the atomix dna was mostly trying to get rid of it
He probably figured he could absorb the energy blast
Tbh I believe that instead of Omnipotence being an issue or stuff like that because of the fusion I believe that each Celestialsapien fusion merely gets a Cosmic typed power boost for example we know Atomic X gets normal powers but they are enhanced in power with him getting a few bonus powers like making small wormholes like he did to Vilgax or teleporting but nothing OP like making new universes just by thinking it like another possible example is by say a Heatblast X as a baby Pyronite can get supernova temperatures just by a tantrum and an adult one can probably do that at ease but a fusion would enhance those flames to new levels as well as probably giving similar buffs like Atomic X
I kinda of believe that logic we really only see atomic x use space based powers
i believe that logic.
This is one of the most unintentionally funny scenes in the franchise tho
you ain't wrong I dye laughing everytime.
I don't think Theory #3 holds up, mostly because Ben 10k seems genuinely surprised at what happened and when it gets reversed. I think it's something like a mixture of #1 and #2. Atomic X doesn't even necessarily has to have 50% of Alien X's powers. Messing with genetics will sometimes result in less than the sum of its parts. It was the whole point of Dr. Animo and the Mutant Ray. I'd gather Atomic X is way weaker than Alien X because the DNA is so unballanced between the two that I don't think the structure of his body could hold the power of a Celestialsapien. It's not math, it's compatibility to get as much value out of each DNA, and I don't think anything is truly compatible with Alien X. He's shown to be pretty succeptible to things like changes in time like when he battled Maltruant. He's pretty consistently outclassed by Chronosapiens. I think he's just Atomix with a couple of extra hax up his sleeve.
What you said about Ben 10k in the beginning was true but you also have to realize that he doesn't remember his past that much for Eg. During the first pt. of the finally Ben 10k genuinely wanted to help Ben prime stop maltruant but paradox stopped and by that point proving Ben 10k does not remember much about the past so theory #3 does still hold up
The 3rd solution makes more sense actually since the whole time loop but what adds more to it is after ben and his younger self get their minds swapped back to normal (forgetting the event happened) ben 10k comes in explaining about the time war which hints at the loop happening
I just watched the episode where Ben goes to Gwen’s college and the guy she’s protecting is named Dante the same guy who looks like the one in captain underpants animated series
I also think this could work for a theory, that Celestialsapians are still able to be affected by time, we know that Celestians are able to be born and age, meaning that they can be effected by time, and also use it, meaning that the bomb could affect a celestialsapian
The official creators said if a celestialsapien knows what the time bomb is they can survive it
No that's false bud.
1.The Celestialsapiens literally live outside time and space,a universe in Ben 10 contains infinite timelines and is infinite itself.
2.They aging and being born means pretty much nothing,they literally exist outside of time and space.
3.The bom won't affect them for said reasons,it didn't affect Paradox who's literally from the main universe.
Yet he lived.
@@Goat10Solos they don't know how to scale, they don't know anything about Celestialsapiens, neither cosmology.
@@Goat10SolosPoint 3 is kinda convoluted to address because there is no real consistency in what the time bomb destroyed.
I don’t remember which video but I do remember Kuro saying something about combining atomic with alien X just increases atomic power, but not to the same levels alien X