I think this ties in with a bigger issue of the game: there's not enough game modes. It gets repetitive playing Ground RB and Air RB TDM. There's so much potential but Gaijin isn't taking risks, they're not innovating their game. They just found something that works and stopped developing new gamemodes or new ways to enjoy the game.
for sure the Za-35... If you don't have a tracker you're dead if you come across it within 2km... It skids around the place because of gaijin fucking it up with ground targets
@@djtigerrawr7303 if you don't have ATGM's or even only early ATGM'S Gepards are actually scary AF. 35mm HE slung from 3.5 km is something you don't want to see in your low teir heli.
Honestly, if the AA player is not skilled, it is very, VERY easy. Sometimes I do get the odd Sargent York that know what he's doing, but most times? My Z series go totally unopposed, it is not fun to just stomp helpless m48's and leopards, I want opposition
@gabrielneves6602 part of that is just the gap in BR's for capable AA's I mean the US has the m163 at 7.7 which is good for sub 2km. then you need to wait till the now 9.0 to get the york (rip) for actual range to deal the good heli pilots
Just a note Helicopter PvP was not the 'first' gamemode for helicopters; when they first came out Helicopters had their own dedicated side of the game like Air, Ground, and Naval and had arcade and realistic matches that worked like Air Arcade battles do, the EC style PvP came later and actually lasted for a long time, several years in fact. We only got PvE a year or two ago and it's also still not been around as long as the PvP mode was.
I actually enjoyed playing heli EC, i would only play on city map and used the roads between buildings to hide from KA-50s till I could get close enough to kill them. I would really like to have that mode back or the helicopter arcade and realistic added back, i never had a chance to play it :(
the Ground SB List isnt randomized its just on rotation, years ago we had a proper matchmaker for the game mode, back then it was also called history battles. they tried to bring the Matchmaker back but years of neglect and the lower player count the way they went about doing that was game breaking at best.
Helicopters in air sim is quite literally the only solution for helis. I don't know why I never thought about that. It's so logical. It would be immensely fun. And if they add primitive troop transport like in DCS, we can actually use transport helis as they were supposed to be used. You should post this on forum to reach developers. It is just amazing idea.
when you mentioned the dynamics of plane vs helicopter combat, I though of the time the U.S Military wargamed that scenario and they found that a helicopter was not an easy of a target as first thought and that a helicopter is surprisingly good at defending themselves from arial attack. look up J-CATCH for more of the specifics
@@jonathanpfeffer3716 Well we can just drop bombs and rockets on them....remember that the dust plume that helos leve is pretty visible. There is a funny short from what was then Engima's Cold War Server named "Why DCS Helo and Fixed Wing Players Never Get Along" Hrrrhrrr :D @ArktikUSF I think he was talking about the one that is mentioned in "Roger Ball" the Biography of John Monroe "Hawk" Smith, and they were using F-4s Back then I think that was mid-70s so more like 50 years ago. And they found out the best anti-helo weapon was a bomb set to air-burst....admittedly we've done that more than a few times in DCS.
1) reduce the RP & SL costs for Heli upgrades/modules 2) allow people to research helis by playing AxB (Arcade/Realistic/Sim; doesnt matter) 3) allow helicopters to also partake in air battles, have them start much much closer to enemies ground objects 4) players should be able to bring 1 heli and 1 aircraft into realistic (optional)
Great video! I agree with you the Heli fanbase in war thunder really needs a good home and thats one of the best ways ive heard someone try to implement it
@KekusMagnus why do you say that? I feel like both were great additions. Just in their current implementation they're mostly just a nuisance, which I agree wholeheartedly. I don't see a need for the whole fanbase to up and leave though
Weirdly enough, im a helicopter main. Moved from planes to tanks and since day 1 of helicopters I started flying them out almost exclusively in ground RB. After getting all of USA and Russia I sit in CB waiting for them to release a game mode that makes the heli’s fun/rewarding. It’s also worth mentioning I mostly use vr and the AH1z has 0 hud for head tracking, additionally you can’t aim the weapons with the hmd, it all feels like a half baked cookie that given more love can genuinely become its own part of the game. Fingers crossed
not at all, since instead of 1 arcade heli on warthunder you can get super realistic one,and you can get some aircraft as cheap as 5 eur. it's not the game where you need to grind and buy everything... having just ka-50 on dcs will be enouth fun for atleast 1k hrs, it has so much stuff to learn and play with, it will take 2 days to just bind everything.@@mikailvito7200
Finally someone else is talking about this! Helicopters are such an overlooked aspect of War Thunder, especially in sim. I have been playing helicopters for a while now but there is really nowhere to experience helicopters in simulator mode other than sim ground, which honestly isnt very balanced or fun. It can be extremely unfair occasionally with certain helicopters like the uh-1, It fights other vehicles like the z19 which have ty90 missles that are smokeless and have irccm, not to mention the huey doesnt even have countermeasures. And in other cases the uh-1 has to fight spaa that have ranges of up to 10km while only having tow missles with a range of 3.75km max. The only other option to fly helicopters in sim is in custom matches which can get very boring after a while. And that part with fighting planes with helicopters is very accurate. About a month ago a friend and I got into a custom match, I was in an mi-24 and he was in an a-10, and after about 20-30 minutes he only managed to score 2 or 3 kills agianst the hind because he first had to find the helicopter. And that was when he was trying to kill a heli. I would love to see this change implemented and thank you for taking the time to speak about this.
4:20 Funnily the reason Gaijin restricts ground simulator is the opposite. The population for simulator ground forces is potentially much larger, but it pulls that population directly from realistic ground battles. In the long long ago time when a full ground simulator mode existed and tanks were still young, Gaijin ran into an issue where players would be (especially at higher tiers) heavily split between realistic and simulator mode. To the point that matchmaking for both modes were suffering. Gaijin saw this and decided one of the two had to be sacrificed. So they looked at what it was in simulator attracting people, took elements of it to realistic (which led to markers being removed in realistic, previously realistic ground battles had markers but no aim assist, similar to how realistic air had markers but no lead indicator) and then they killed simulator ground as a matchmaking mode, putting it on the same restrictive timetable as simulator air at the time. When they reworked simulator air into a room system, they decided not to do the same to ground sim as they knew it would lead again to the mode pulling players from realistic, instead opting to create a rotating set of match lineups initially based off the match lineups from the chronicles events they use to run at the time. This has since been expanded and they try to always have a permanent high tier lineup as one of the two options while the other rotates around selections from tier 3 - 5. A recent test sort of confirmed there is still a big draw at higher tiers for people to play ground sim that pulls from ground realistic, but lower tiers are not popular in ground sim, but it also fluctuates a lot more then it use to so in its corner it shall remain.
This is a great idea, with ONE problem tho, the AH-1Z. The AH-1Z gets smokeless AIM-9Ms, which imo, is the best missile in game modes WITHOUT that little diamond, because the odds of your enemy even seeing the missile and trying to defend it, are just so little. As he said, the helicopters would be hard to find, but with their lease targeting pod, and RWR (that can detect jets radar, but no jet radar can detect a heli radar that I’m aware of), meaning the helicopters would have an easy time searching for aircraft. Great idea tho, and even with that problem, I still think it needs to be added.
Even though the heli can see the jet, it can't exploit that advantage due to lack of speed. Every heli v jet engagement, the heli pilot relies on the jet to set the "tempo" of the fight. If the jet thinks they'll die, they have every opportunity to disengage
Helicopter Arcade is fun 30% of the time. The rest is pretty much: fly here, fly there, AAA spawns right below you, you die, AAA convoy spawns too close to you, you die. Find some internet radio stations to listen to or a stream to watch to pass the time.
Correction : In the old Heli modus there were reserve Heli matches (only no Ka-50 needed to list for some time) You dont need to take tons and tons ground targets. Exp in that PVE mode is based on your points : 250 points every 10 minutes (you die before the 10th minute you devide 2200 with 10 and than multiply with your played minutes. Thats your exp (with Prem) with Prem vehicle it would be double that (every 10th minute)) There is a hardcap for your exp but you reach it very fast (250 points isnt much). Fly in low tier to a base , kill AA + base = 248 points. You are just making it harder than it is. In high tier you could use boosters. Like i made in 90 Minutes 47k exp mod with the Tiger HAD (non prem) using 300% exp booster and 130% on the Block II. (Would my HAD had a Talisman it would have been 78k)
I've said air sim needs helis a long time ago but failjin will never do it because they hate us. The problem is stuff like Z-10 and Z-19 with 16 and 8 highly effective air to air missiles will dominate. Yes, real life military heli pilots train for all sorts of engagement scenarios but in Gaijins game they will be overpowered.
@jacobchristen9446 it would take a lot of patience to achieve such victories but indeed this would be possible, as it should be. Major victories are counted both in the skies and on the ground.✌️could also just replace Roland with Pantsir
@@GumMonster1 yesterday I've encountered the guy on Su-25T who killed 20+ ppl with vikhrs, so nope, this doesnt need a lot of patience, just find small map and throw the missiles without any warning.
This is very well thought out and specifically the testing you did shows it's at the very minimum a viable solution for helicopters in the current state of the game. I personally think it's a fantastic idea and could be even further improved by making the objectives in air SB not so one dimensional and repetitive. For instance searching a mountain range for scout vehicles. That would be well suited to helicopters and presents an opportunity for them to strike quickly and bug out. All in all, I totally agree. I would absolutely be willing to learn how to fly a helicopter properly in sim if this were a thing, and it would be so cool to do CAP for actual friendly player helis instead of escorting an ai bomber flight.
I mean you would have people in ka50s/ ka52s hitting planes on the runway or planes taking off from up to 10km away. Or those Chinese helis shooting smokeless 20g irccm missiles at planes. The earliest br for a heli with the ty-90s is 9.3 in sim. That would be criminal at 9.3.
It's not about objectives, it's the economy. The EC is pretty much fun and have all aspect activities especially on sjch maps as denmarks, but its the useful actions that killed the gamemode, the only system in the game that DISCOURAGES you for being active player
2:28 Ahhh yes Heli PVP after the Introduction of the KA-50 was quite something...in wich i mean if you didnt buy that thing your chances scoring a single kill would be like 5% per match if you knew what youre doing. You joined and see a dude just having 75 Kills in his Kamov (usually one on both teams). Depending on the map you couldnt even spawn without some dude already having thrown a buch of Vikhers at you. Fun Times...
Wow! I watched your video and based off the quality, I was expecting to see a 10k sub channel when I scrolled down. I hope your channel gets the attention it deserves, keep it up!
Just to point it out, this is essentially what DCS does, and there's almost certainly non-WT players that might be drawn to this game mode, and it shouldn't take too much player base away from existing gamemodes.
Heli PvP was removed a few years back. It was just Kamovs slinging vikhrs across the map. Pure chaos but it was fun regardless. Shame they removed it though.
Or was it the fact that there was no br brackets in hell pvp? Spawning in your scout AH mk1 and getting clubbed by Kamovs was cancer distilled into its purest form.
@@sorincaladera936 yup :/ it’s a shame because the mode had some potential. It just needed to be BR gated. Same KA-50 players complain like fuck in GRB when I first spawn my Apache with ATASK to rush their heli spawn, somehow they can’t handle being the powerless one in a given scenario xD
@@sorincaladera936 I’ve never mentioned I only used kamovs. While I agree that there should be a BR range for battles I’ve grinding out the German and US hello tree with it aswell.
I love heli PVE, it is in my opinion very profitable if you stay to the end, also there are memeable stuff we can talk and laugh at, genereally there is posibility to speak with others more than in other modes through writing in the chat, amounts of kills is enormous, some moments are very cinematic. It what annoys me is not fair "crashing", heli to heli colisions or enemies respawning under you.
Hey the vehicle lists for ground SB are not randomized, its a fixed rotation with one WW2 and one NATO vs RU/CH each day. The brackets rotate ever 24 hours, WW2 have 4 different brackets and NATO vs RU/CH has 5. The brackets contains vehicles based on BR and timeperiod.
@@DintheDinster It used to be just like GR RB when the only nations in the game was USSR+USA vs Germany. They had to change the matching system to what we currently have to accommodate smaller nation that use mixed origin vehicles. The current system is less than ideal and i used to play alot of more of GR Sim back in the day but imagine the amount friendly fire there would be if the matchmaking was the same as GR RB. You now have M18s and Shermans in every nation when it was USA only back in those days.
As someone who routinely plays all BRs of sim mode as planes tanks and helicopters (playtime in that order). I think this is a great idea. Top tier Helicopters would be fighting with long range missiles against planes with long range missiles. In fact in ground sb as a plane pilot, i find myself dying to helicopter missiles just as much as spaa, i think the helicopters could hold their own. Also spotting helicopters is less difficult than you think even without radar. You would see them in the feed and immediately know that they are in 1 of maybe 3 spots max then just fly over to that area of tanks and you'd see them pretty fast without radar. I often play ground sb just to hunt helicopters, they are less defenseless than people think (at least at the top tier)
The helicopters would do more then hold their own. They could easily sit outside the ranges of runway anti air take out planes taking off or landing. You could also do this to other heli bases unless they hide the locations on the map.
Fun fact ive got more air kills in my Mi-28A (dosent have AA missiles) in GRB just by using the gunner as it had lead calculation and i can get quite easky kills on su25-A10s when they are flying straight even with ATGMS because the gunner can lock onto rhem without giving a radar ping 😂
It's strange that you can unlock the helicopter tree by reaching aircraft level V, given that you can only play with them with other vehicles in ground battles. One thing I've been thinking for a while is that it's been 6 years since they tested the Enduring game mode in air RB, it would be cool to test it again with the top tier aircraft, and add helicopters along with it. Without a spotting system they would be as difficult to see as in tank RB, and with a giant map they would be less focused than the planes themselves, as they are difficult to see with the radar and the map is very wide, making it difficult to find them with your eyes.
This would get me actually excited to play helicopters for once, I loved flying rotors in DCS but in war thunder there's just no way to play it as it should be atm
The only real threat in Helicopter PvE is the convoy SPAA. The SPAA from ground attacks/defense can be dodged with relative safety if you know how to dodge. Their AI seems to be level 2 out of 4 in the Heli PvE SPAA. Level 1 AI is the falcons that "protect" the ground base targets. They are easily jammable if you fly directly over the turret. This causes them to kinda bug out for a bit by turning left and right for a bit before fixing itself. You only really die to them from those 1 in a million lucky pilot snipes when you are flying in a straight like the entire time, or even hover for too long. The Gepard is the worst if you go by how common it is to all maps. They will somehow find their mark even though you have evaded the best you can when closing range. Level 4 AI? It's those damn ZA-35s on that one red canyon map. They need to be outright removed from Helicopter PvE. They will instantly kill or cripple if you get within sniffing range of them. There is no killing them unless you can out range them. If you miss, you are dead.
4:07 its no randomized, they have stabilished certain br brackeys, being 4 for top and 7 for low ground sb. In the top you have 1 day witb helis and no aa wuth guided ammo, so they have helia of lower tuer, usually with atgms yhat dont have more than 3km of reach, and 2 of them have guided ammo aa, being onw dor top gelis, and one for all helis, the fourth bracket doesnt have helis at all, se iy as an early korean war thing.
Another great idea would be moving ground targets from the center of a map in to more dedicated local areas. Its not a new things, some maps got it (at the start, or after some updates) They mostly did it in favor of ground attackers, but it would be also good for helis.
Fully agree, won’t mind seeing helis in Air SB. Will actually consider taking one or two out myself. Big fan of Air SB and irl fixed-wing pilot, I have always been fascinated by helicopters, just could not afford the costs of doing the training. Used to play Gunship 2000 many winters ago and enjoyed it immensely.
Honestly I feel like if a heli pvp mode was added it would probably be both teams sitting at a distance shooting missiles at each other, but I do agree heli pvp needs a home
Heli PvP was only made to sell alot of helicopter premium since you got to shit on people who didn't, just look up the sheer number of sales made from them, this is proven by the fact they removed Heli PVP instead of balancing it with literal BR system in the game for more than a decade, and made a PvE mode with literal garbage rewards, mundane and repetitive gameplay. though helicopters in ARB or even ASB is a great idea, kill feed problem? just remove kill feed for helicopters or AI units, having to fly 14km in your heli? just move the helipads closer, No easy targets? just make more AI units in the map and more spread out. Helicopters are pretty potent at defending themselves in fact, as long as you don't get a 9M shoved in you which you can simply preflare before it launches granted you have enough CMs, helicopters with targeting computer can kill aircraft 2-3km away easily, not to mention AAMs will deny aircraft strafing you as long as they don't preflare (they will) and even if a 9M launches at you, you can shoot the 9M down with your AAM, hell 9Bs are mostly used to shoot down all aspect missiles against you like in F4C or F104A
The thing is, helis with dumbfire rockets is great when you play slow and don’t rush. Many of them after 9.3 I believe have cockpit ballistic computer. If you hang out around 2km from the battlefield, enemy ground actually can’t hear you until you’re within 1.5km. Currently sitting at around 800 kills in the AH-1F playing in a CQB fire support role in the early game and also hunting AAs off the bat. To help the grind, they need to increase the rewards drastically for helicopter battles and have proper BR brackets so someone in the AH-1G, UH-1, or Allouette isn’t getting minimal points, competing with Ka-50s, Mi-35s, Tigers, and other super advanced helis.
Finally someone else that shares my point of view, I have talked about this several times over the past 3 years and everyone thinks I am mad for even thinking this.... It is good to see that I am not alone to see this is a the most logical thing to do for helis... Speaking of, in Air Sim as of yesterday there are helipads that are bombed out by friendly and enemy planes depending on the maps, Mozdok does not have it or Stalingrad (Both summer and winter versions) but pretty much any other map has helipads that are bombed out as reward bags
There was a third (I guess first) heli only mode, when they were first introduced. Pretty much the same as the other heli PVP, but it had different objectives
Its an interesting idea. Chopper grinding in RB is a LONG, LONG road. Chopper sim is ok but its a lot of flying between targets. I think the chopper bases in RB could be ALOT closer to the action. Choppers are very delicate and can be taken out with a tiny bit of lead. Many chopper pilots have no idea how to use cover or 'collusion' and just waste tickets for their team. Thanks for the vid. Snail needs to take a look at this!
adding it ontop of the PvE would be a good idea , bc some people dont have the sim layout, but i also thing Heli's could also be in Air RB and take up the bomber slots
Your spot on. Throw in some mid map FARPs and up the spawning objectives and we would be good to go. You helicopter guys can go after the convoys. Planes cant even touch them as the AA guns are deadly at all ranges. Often random ground units that spawn in for a objective stay on the map long after the objective was completed or failed. Just right for helicopters to hunt down.
I personally do not believe helis in a sim game are a good idea at least at top tier. As that will be a very very poor experience for both sides as the maps are huge and the helis will be slowly floating through that to get to a set of ground targets just for an su25 or f16 to have already killed them. Then on the inverse as a jet trying to fight the helis their auto tracker is way too strong if they can get that locked on and for some reason their IRCM stops radar missiles
I think they should also be added to air rb because the heli controls for sim are terrible on keyboard and mouse. Just change the detection parameters for helis so their nametags dont pop up until really close up, like less than 2km close.
I believe that a simulator mode with all vehicle types on a large air sim map also works and that the tanks are then not only about jolon into a City and Die, but also more tactics come into the Tank gameplay.
I am all for trying to integrate helicopters into Air Simulator... but that mode would need a whole rework. There are so many problems I couldn't list them all in a single YT comment. I would love to see it, but I don't see Gaijin putting in that much work. They couldn't even get a simple Helicopter PVP mode to work when all they had to do is split the helicopters up into 3-4 different BR ranges.
I quite like the heli pve, mostly find it quite relaxing, especially compared to ground & air RB. I generally get a module researched per match or two, so its been really good for researching the new helis and spading, as well as making a crap ton of SL with boosters... but you ost me when you got to using SIM!
several things: * grinding stock helis is still easier in RB (RB players have next to no situational awareness, you get assisted spotting markers, in sim all you have is the totally-realistic sound awareness and your eyeballs within the cockpit) * the lineup isn't random * queue times more than make sim the least efficient mode to grind helis - it took me 14 months to grind through the allouette II * BRs need to be fixed big time for helis for them to get implemented to air sim. Some things will be impossible to balance like 90% of the chinese heli tree because TY-90 exists even on their terrible helis
as someone who plays air sim alot.. this would be amazing, it would feel more like a DCS server, even in DCS spotting helicopters is tough and they are fairly balanced, also Flying low to try and track a helicopter is dangerous as it can easily get guns on you while using terrain..
I for one completelly agree, simply because as pure Air RB and Air SB player, I have never actually played helis outside of "Test drive" because I simply am not interested in playing tanks, and you have to to get SPs for a heli which is a catch 22 for me.
@DiamondBack we have opened up a forum on WT where people could go and pitch their ideas its been there for 2 years now if I am correct. That is how long we have been asking Gaijin to implement helis into air sim. So I think the more people engage in that discussion the better the chances are for them to implement it.
me and a few friends have done this in a custom battle. 3 of us in jets, 2 helicopters and 2 tanks. the helicopters would take out the tanks, and the planes take out the helicopters. the helicopters kept killing the tanks, and we couldnt find them, so yeah they should totally add them to air sim.
I think a lot of people would be interested in this discussion in the Wingaling Discord. It's mostly sim players in there and helis are a common topic. The owners also have some contact with Ganjin and can sometimes influence changes!
@@PepegaSquadFlying they did have a big influence on how the changes for sim were implemented with the economy update, but yeah unfortunately not much since. I was under the impression that communication is getting better, from some of his recent streams, but maybe not...
Another thing I've realized is how easy it is to just kill a helicopter with any and all tanks because of how the game uses mouse aiming, if it used a more steelbeast/ GHPC style aiming it would make the game harder, more fun, and also make shooting down aircraft harder. There's also a lot of people who want helicopters in air sim. It would just work and itd be fun af which would also be able to help introduce transportation objectives. Also ground sim had a trial period using a BR system which made getting into games really fast and it was amazing. I really want them to bring it back
Cold-War/Modern SPAA not being so prolific or low in spawn cost would definitely help alittle. The fact that people spawn in SPAA in the beginning of the match goes to show just how all-encompassing it is when it is supposed to be a specialized role.
@@Xackory Way to completely miss the point. It’s almost entirely risk free to spawn in an SPAA in the beginning of the match. Especially if you are in something like a Gepard that can holds it own even if a helicopter doesn’t show up. I’m alright with SPAA being low cost to spawn in but to spawn in it at game start past a certain BR should probably be slightly more.
@@GumMonster1 the RB players just try to soak the features of already existing gamemode into their zone of comfort, while they could just progress into aknowledging the game more by learning new controls/gamemodes. The only reason EC is almost dead now is utter ignorance of playerbase using the sheep tactic "not my gamemode - none of my business"
@@GumMonster1 because top tier is flooded with fancy new premiums and exaggerated expectations of great farm potential, yet you often barely can find a room from 5.7 to 9.0. Only in EC exists economic system that DISCOURAGES active gameplay and player achievements, yes, guys do love to dogfight, but only because of sheer enthusiasm, and they arent making any profit by constantly killing and dying, even ARB nowadays more profitable than EC. And on top of that - PvE rooms, fucking miserable.
There was a time that they had Ground Sim Battles where you can bring any vehicle. They were testing it out. Also to get rid of Heli PvE and move the players to sim would be bad for console due to them not having control wizard and having to set up sim controls which is already confusing to do on controller
Adding helicopters to sim would also add something to WT for the first time: A game mode where every vehicle type is present, even if not player controlled. Honestly I have no idea why this has never been the case before, it's just weird to think that it"s never been the case out of custom battles. Also I think it would be cool to be able to have super big battles with every vehicle type controlled by players but I can see why this would require a lot of power and probably wouldn't be that fun.
Wish they had a mode with simulator maps. With whatever the max player count is with two teams. Bigger areas to capture, do like 60% of the center map in open and the 20% on both sides is friendly or enemy territory and will be shown on the map.
You see, RBEC and this together would probably keep a super healthy player base. And it's as easy as just borrowing sim assets for other modes or combining modes to help keep server usage optimal.
The list on SB isn't randomized, its on rotation, so you can actually plan ahead of time what days you can play with what nation, But it's still a pretty shitty system. I remember once like a year or maybe two ago that they got rid of that restriction for simulator battles for like one week and you could play whatever lineup whenever. Best week ever in war thunder history, god i miss it
I like all of this but the point @7:30 of "not being able to see or radar and enemy helicopter" gets thrown out the window pretty easily when you fly an A-10, Jaguar, Harrier Gr.7 or anything else with a FLIR or camera pod, especially if it has thermals. In my experience, the Su39 has been KILLER in sim just because the camera/radar pod allows you to survey the airspace. Maybe there's a meta to be made with attackers/slow top tier jets and helos though.
What DiamondBack is asking for is the same thing the Person vs Person mode used to be like where there were bases to kill on each side of the map the mode he is explaining is pretty much what the PvP mode was as you did have to kill the ground targets the game told you to kill just like Air Sim is right now but you were in a helicopter with a team like ground RB is. Pretty much what is said here has kind of already similarly been done YEARS ago in Helicopter battle mode before it was PvE but it was just helicopters and no other air vehicles. But good idea in the video and some have already been tried but Im sure there would be a lot more to it than we think there is. But nice little video maybe Gaijin sees it and gets a spark in there heads , nice job and good luck 👍sorry about the book typed below 😁
I'd love to see sim battles turned into a true "combined battles" kind of game mode (now hear me out) ground battles and naval battles already take place in air sim battles. what if it was made so that the ground battles and naval battles that happen in air sim battles are actually PvP matches. they could make a few generic city templates like the bases that get bombed and that would populate a sector for a ground battles to commence (with actual players queing into ground sim battles) and the same deal for naval you just wouldn't have to add in any assets and the results of those battles determine the frontline on the map. Very ambitious game design but that would make the gameplay and all the different vehicles really become relevant to an overall grind
I love helicopters but like you said getting to actually play them and have fun in them is challanging. I really hope they do what you suggested at least to test this out.
I wish, they fix stingers first before adding something like this. Pretty much every heli that uses stingers, is defenseless against anything flying since stingers prox fuzes are bugged. They just fly past the target and don't explode, even if it's 1-2 meters away.
I feel like WT just needs a dedicated air vs ground gamemode, because on top of the issues with helicopters theres a very similar issue with bombers and strike aircraft too (specifically at higher BRs) in that you either take them in to ground RB and you either ruin the tank players day or get sniped by radar spaa or missles before you get close, or take them into air RB where you just get an AAM up your but before you get to do anything, and even if you dont its only worth it to destroy bases, attacking AI gives you basically nothing. So we need a dedicated gamemode for air vs ground combat, even if the ground units are just AI, that isnt a half baked mess like the PVE gamemode we currently have.
I would like to see a dedicated air realistic pve game mode, the heli mode was a good step but having a tank or plane game type like that would be relaxing
If I play simulator on VR, the addition of helicopter wouldn't change my experience, I can't see enemy jets unless I first get them on my radar, and trust me I won't be able to locate an helicopter
Even when the ground sim BR allows helicopters it often heavily skews the balance in one teams favor by giving one team (almost always China) access to helicopters that have both air to air missiles and countermeasures while the opposing nations won’t get to use helicopters with those features. See Z19vs AH1-F..
Actually an excellent idea tbh. I don't play much of helis, or air sim. But if this was added, I would probably set up my flightstick and vr to at least give it a go. From my limited experience with air sim (just from watching others play it, not from playing it myself) I think it would be a great addition, especially since PvE is a fairly big part of air sim.
I think this ties in with a bigger issue of the game: there's not enough game modes. It gets repetitive playing Ground RB and Air RB TDM. There's so much potential but Gaijin isn't taking risks, they're not innovating their game. They just found something that works and stopped developing new gamemodes or new ways to enjoy the game.
which is dumb, because they can't really go wrong with adding new stuff unless they monetize it which is a real scary because it *is* gaijin
I know this would be controversial but having a separate historical match making game mode would be fun for some people I would like to see it
I know this would be controversial but having a separate historical match making game mode would be fun for some people I would like to see it
I know this would be controversial but having a separate historical match making game mode would be fun for some people I would like to see it
I know this would be controversial but having a separate historical match making game mode would be fun for some people I would like to see it
"PVE is harmless"
The gepard waiting for him to finish that
the Za-35 skidding around the place waiting for him to finish the sentence
The M42s reliably hitting shots above 4Km at the lowest rank on the worst map
GEPARD tf is a geopard new mix leopard and GEPARD
be me. fire hellfire at enemy SPAA in convoy. SPAA clips into ground. loses lock and misses. Enemies spawn directly below me. dies to gepard
@@__ASAAA Don't forget the spaa isn't where you locked onto because of desync, then it goes into the ground and breaks lock
Gaijin loves helicopters only slightly more than they love naval.
they torcher navel its a shit show bot accounts they wont help up im scharnhorst player
Thats the saddest and the most true thing I've heard about war thunder.
DiamondBack: There are no threats for heli PvE
Gepard: Am I a joke to you?
Yes the gepard is a joke
The real threat is losing the remaining bit of sanity you have
for sure the Za-35...
If you don't have a tracker you're dead if you come across it within 2km...
It skids around the place because of gaijin fucking it up with ground targets
@@djtigerrawr7303 if you don't have ATGM's or even only early ATGM'S Gepards are actually scary AF. 35mm HE slung from 3.5 km is something you don't want to see in your low teir heli.
@@dragonoflocniroth in the ah1 im able to snipe them with hydras, theyre not an issue
@@djtigerrawr7303 Half the deaths I see in Heli PVE are Gepards. Not Falcons, not ZSU's, Gepards.
ground simulator with a certain br (early helis, where the only AA is guns, not missiles) is quite fun actually but that's super specific
Honestly, if the AA player is not skilled, it is very, VERY easy. Sometimes I do get the odd Sargent York that know what he's doing, but most times? My Z series go totally unopposed, it is not fun to just stomp helpless m48's and leopards, I want opposition
@gabrielneves6602 part of that is just the gap in BR's for capable AA's I mean the US has the m163 at 7.7 which is good for sub 2km. then you need to wait till the now 9.0 to get the york (rip) for actual range to deal the good heli pilots
Yeah, if the QN506 wasn’t in the early heli sim bracket, it would be fun. Getting slammed over and over again by locked on missiles is no fun
Just a note Helicopter PvP was not the 'first' gamemode for helicopters; when they first came out Helicopters had their own dedicated side of the game like Air, Ground, and Naval and had arcade and realistic matches that worked like Air Arcade battles do, the EC style PvP came later and actually lasted for a long time, several years in fact.
We only got PvE a year or two ago and it's also still not been around as long as the PvP mode was.
I actually enjoyed playing heli EC, i would only play on city map and used the roads between buildings to hide from KA-50s till I could get close enough to kill them. I would really like to have that mode back or the helicopter arcade and realistic added back, i never had a chance to play it :(
That’s so true. But it fell short of the mark due to the lack of br brackets and early choppers getting dumpstered by Ka-50s
the Ground SB List isnt randomized its just on rotation, years ago we had a proper matchmaker for the game mode, back then it was also called history battles.
they tried to bring the Matchmaker back but years of neglect and the lower player count the way they went about doing that was game breaking at best.
Honestly, I played both, and it's kinda good the way it currently is, since it doesn't mix Korea with late WW2. Só yeah, I really like it
Helicopters in air sim is quite literally the only solution for helis. I don't know why I never thought about that. It's so logical. It would be immensely fun.
And if they add primitive troop transport like in DCS, we can actually use transport helis as they were supposed to be used. You should post this on forum to reach developers. It is just amazing idea.
Agree. Its stupid to use transport helis into a fight, if you are not carring troops to the front line.
its as if helicopters were forced into a game that wasnt ready for them and isnt ready even to this day
when you mentioned the dynamics of plane vs helicopter combat, I though of the time the U.S Military wargamed that scenario and they found that a helicopter was not an easy of a target as first thought and that a helicopter is surprisingly good at defending themselves from arial attack. look up J-CATCH for more of the specifics
sure, as long as the fixed wing fighters are limited to only using guns and need to visually ID their targets, lol. j catch was over 40 years ago.
@@jonathanpfeffer3716 and that's just fine as only very few vehicles in WT use current tech.
@@jonathanpfeffer371640 years ago had f18s, f14s, f15s.... they were not just using f4s lol
@@jonathanpfeffer3716 Well we can just drop bombs and rockets on them....remember that the dust plume that helos leve is pretty visible.
There is a funny short from what was then Engima's Cold War Server named "Why DCS Helo and Fixed Wing Players Never Get Along" Hrrrhrrr :D
@ArktikUSF I think he was talking about the one that is mentioned in "Roger Ball" the Biography of John Monroe "Hawk" Smith, and they were using F-4s Back then I think that was mid-70s so more like 50 years ago.
And they found out the best anti-helo weapon was a bomb set to air-burst....admittedly we've done that more than a few times in DCS.
1) reduce the RP & SL costs for Heli upgrades/modules
2) allow people to research helis by playing AxB (Arcade/Realistic/Sim; doesnt matter)
3) allow helicopters to also partake in air battles, have them start much much closer to enemies ground objects
4) players should be able to bring 1 heli and 1 aircraft into realistic (optional)
Great video! I agree with you the Heli fanbase in war thunder really needs a good home and thats one of the best ways ive heard someone try to implement it
heli "fanbase" needs to gtfo, helicopters don't belong in the game. They are a massive mistake, just like drones
i agree-it SHOULD in theory also help increase the amount of research you would get per match as well
@KekusMagnus why do you say that? I feel like both were great additions. Just in their current implementation they're mostly just a nuisance, which I agree wholeheartedly. I don't see a need for the whole fanbase to up and leave though
@@torvamessor3059Yeah!
@@KekusMagnus There is a difference between being a helicopter enthusiast and guided missile sniper.
YYYEEESSS IVE BEEN ASKING FOR THIS FOR 2 YEARS!!!
Plz keep going, we gotta make enough noise that gaijin hears
watching this, never realised once that this was on a channel this tiny, would LOVE to have this implemented
Weirdly enough, im a helicopter main. Moved from planes to tanks and since day 1 of helicopters I started flying them out almost exclusively in ground RB. After getting all of USA and Russia I sit in CB waiting for them to release a game mode that makes the heli’s fun/rewarding. It’s also worth mentioning I mostly use vr and the AH1z has 0 hud for head tracking, additionally you can’t aim the weapons with the hmd, it all feels like a half baked cookie that given more love can genuinely become its own part of the game. Fingers crossed
just play dcs, problem solved.
“Just play dcs” if we wanted dcs, we’d play dcs, you can’t tell me these two games are similar besides the vehicles
If you haven't tried helicopters in dcs, your argument is meaningless.@@justade3707
@@greenpixel556 DCS is pretty expensive
not at all, since instead of 1 arcade heli on warthunder you can get super realistic one,and you can get some aircraft as cheap as 5 eur. it's not the game where you need to grind and buy everything... having just ka-50 on dcs will be enouth fun for atleast 1k hrs, it has so much stuff to learn and play with, it will take 2 days to just bind everything.@@mikailvito7200
Finally someone else is talking about this! Helicopters are such an overlooked aspect of War Thunder, especially in sim. I have been playing helicopters for a while now but there is really nowhere to experience helicopters in simulator mode other than sim ground, which honestly isnt very balanced or fun. It can be extremely unfair occasionally with certain helicopters like the uh-1, It fights other vehicles like the z19 which have ty90 missles that are smokeless and have irccm, not to mention the huey doesnt even have countermeasures. And in other cases the uh-1 has to fight spaa that have ranges of up to 10km while only having tow missles with a range of 3.75km max. The only other option to fly helicopters in sim is in custom matches which can get very boring after a while.
And that part with fighting planes with helicopters is very accurate. About a month ago a friend and I got into a custom match, I was in an mi-24 and he was in an a-10, and after about 20-30 minutes he only managed to score 2 or 3 kills agianst the hind because he first had to find the helicopter. And that was when he was trying to kill a heli.
I would love to see this change implemented and thank you for taking the time to speak about this.
4:20 Funnily the reason Gaijin restricts ground simulator is the opposite. The population for simulator ground forces is potentially much larger, but it pulls that population directly from realistic ground battles. In the long long ago time when a full ground simulator mode existed and tanks were still young, Gaijin ran into an issue where players would be (especially at higher tiers) heavily split between realistic and simulator mode. To the point that matchmaking for both modes were suffering. Gaijin saw this and decided one of the two had to be sacrificed. So they looked at what it was in simulator attracting people, took elements of it to realistic (which led to markers being removed in realistic, previously realistic ground battles had markers but no aim assist, similar to how realistic air had markers but no lead indicator) and then they killed simulator ground as a matchmaking mode, putting it on the same restrictive timetable as simulator air at the time.
When they reworked simulator air into a room system, they decided not to do the same to ground sim as they knew it would lead again to the mode pulling players from realistic, instead opting to create a rotating set of match lineups initially based off the match lineups from the chronicles events they use to run at the time. This has since been expanded and they try to always have a permanent high tier lineup as one of the two options while the other rotates around selections from tier 3 - 5.
A recent test sort of confirmed there is still a big draw at higher tiers for people to play ground sim that pulls from ground realistic, but lower tiers are not popular in ground sim, but it also fluctuates a lot more then it use to so in its corner it shall remain.
This is a great idea, with ONE problem tho, the AH-1Z.
The AH-1Z gets smokeless AIM-9Ms, which imo, is the best missile in game modes WITHOUT that little diamond, because the odds of your enemy even seeing the missile and trying to defend it, are just so little. As he said, the helicopters would be hard to find, but with their lease targeting pod, and RWR (that can detect jets radar, but no jet radar can detect a heli radar that I’m aware of), meaning the helicopters would have an easy time searching for aircraft.
Great idea tho, and even with that problem, I still think it needs to be added.
Even though the heli can see the jet, it can't exploit that advantage due to lack of speed. Every heli v jet engagement, the heli pilot relies on the jet to set the "tempo" of the fight. If the jet thinks they'll die, they have every opportunity to disengage
@@sorincaladera936 but if the jet gets close enough on accident, BAM!!!!
@@ANDREWISNTSOGOODER So it's their fault.
Helicopter Arcade is fun 30% of the time. The rest is pretty much: fly here, fly there, AAA spawns right below you, you die, AAA convoy spawns too close to you, you die.
Find some internet radio stations to listen to or a stream to watch to pass the time.
Correction :
In the old Heli modus there were reserve Heli matches (only no Ka-50 needed to list for some time)
You dont need to take tons and tons ground targets.
Exp in that PVE mode is based on your points : 250 points every 10 minutes (you die before the 10th minute you devide 2200 with 10 and than multiply with your played minutes. Thats your exp (with Prem) with Prem vehicle it would be double that (every 10th minute))
There is a hardcap for your exp but you reach it very fast (250 points isnt much). Fly in low tier to a base , kill AA + base = 248 points.
You are just making it harder than it is.
In high tier you could use boosters.
Like i made in 90 Minutes 47k exp mod with the Tiger HAD (non prem) using 300% exp booster and 130% on the Block II.
(Would my HAD had a Talisman it would have been 78k)
I've said air sim needs helis a long time ago but failjin will never do it because they hate us. The problem is stuff like Z-10 and Z-19 with 16 and 8 highly effective air to air missiles will dominate. Yes, real life military heli pilots train for all sorts of engagement scenarios but in Gaijins game they will be overpowered.
You could also sit 10km away from a runway with the vikhr missile and shoot down any planes landing or taking off.
@jacobchristen9446 it would take a lot of patience to achieve such victories but indeed this would be possible, as it should be. Major victories are counted both in the skies and on the ground.✌️could also just replace Roland with Pantsir
@@GumMonster1"lot of patience" you clearly don't play air sim a lot, don't ya?
@IonPerseus thumbs down 😐 👎 bad reply. please try again next time.
@@GumMonster1 yesterday I've encountered the guy on Su-25T who killed 20+ ppl with vikhrs, so nope, this doesnt need a lot of patience, just find small map and throw the missiles without any warning.
Well said. The only problem is that it would be the paradise for Z-10s and Z-19s where they murder every flying thing they can see.
This is very well thought out and specifically the testing you did shows it's at the very minimum a viable solution for helicopters in the current state of the game. I personally think it's a fantastic idea and could be even further improved by making the objectives in air SB not so one dimensional and repetitive. For instance searching a mountain range for scout vehicles. That would be well suited to helicopters and presents an opportunity for them to strike quickly and bug out.
All in all, I totally agree. I would absolutely be willing to learn how to fly a helicopter properly in sim if this were a thing, and it would be so cool to do CAP for actual friendly player helis instead of escorting an ai bomber flight.
I mean you would have people in ka50s/ ka52s hitting planes on the runway or planes taking off from up to 10km away. Or those Chinese helis shooting smokeless 20g irccm missiles at planes. The earliest br for a heli with the ty-90s is 9.3 in sim. That would be criminal at 9.3.
It's not about objectives, it's the economy. The EC is pretty much fun and have all aspect activities especially on sjch maps as denmarks, but its the useful actions that killed the gamemode, the only system in the game that DISCOURAGES you for being active player
Italian starting heli is so horrible I gave up using it for either PVE or ground RB
Never thought about it, but dude I'll be grinding helicopters like hell if they were included in Air-Sb !
2:28 Ahhh yes Heli PVP after the Introduction of the KA-50 was quite something...in wich i mean if you didnt buy that thing your chances scoring a single kill would be like 5% per match if you knew what youre doing. You joined and see a dude just having 75 Kills in his Kamov (usually one on both teams). Depending on the map you couldnt even spawn without some dude already having thrown a buch of Vikhers at you. Fun Times...
Wow! I watched your video and based off the quality, I was expecting to see a 10k sub channel when I scrolled down. I hope your channel gets the attention it deserves, keep it up!
Just to point it out, this is essentially what DCS does, and there's almost certainly non-WT players that might be drawn to this game mode, and it shouldn't take too much player base away from existing gamemodes.
Dang, good idea.
Imagine the skyscraper maps from Air RB and combine that with Heli's. That would be rad!
Making Simulator more fun visually and easier to get into, while keeping it difficult to master is very hard.
Helicopters need a home that’s for sure
But it is quite simple to get into.
@IonPerseus you don't even play the game
@@GumMonster1 I literally have 13 days on fighter in EC
@@IonPerseus and you thought it would be a good idea to assume I care. I dont.
Heli PvP was removed a few years back. It was just Kamovs slinging vikhrs across the map. Pure chaos but it was fun regardless. Shame they removed it though.
the reason they removed it due to some players complained when they get banned for kill boosting
Or was it the fact that there was no br brackets in hell pvp? Spawning in your scout AH mk1 and getting clubbed by Kamovs was cancer distilled into its purest form.
@@fenriders7008love how the Ka50 player refused to bring up the fact they were fighting UH-1bs, scouts and alouettes. Typical
@@sorincaladera936 yup :/ it’s a shame because the mode had some potential. It just needed to be BR gated.
Same KA-50 players complain like fuck in GRB when I first spawn my Apache with ATASK to rush their heli spawn, somehow they can’t handle being the powerless one in a given scenario xD
@@sorincaladera936 I’ve never mentioned I only used kamovs. While I agree that there should be a BR range for battles I’ve grinding out the German and US hello tree with it aswell.
I love heli PVE, it is in my opinion very profitable if you stay to the end, also there are memeable stuff we can talk and laugh at, genereally there is posibility to speak with others more than in other modes through writing in the chat, amounts of kills is enormous, some moments are very cinematic. It what annoys me is not fair "crashing", heli to heli colisions or enemies respawning under you.
Hey the vehicle lists for ground SB are not randomized, its a fixed rotation with one WW2 and one NATO vs RU/CH each day. The brackets rotate ever 24 hours, WW2 have 4 different brackets and NATO vs RU/CH has 5. The brackets contains vehicles based on BR and timeperiod.
Sorry bro, still makes no sense to me😂
@@DintheDinster It used to be just like GR RB when the only nations in the game was USSR+USA vs Germany. They had to change the matching system to what we currently have to accommodate smaller nation that use mixed origin vehicles. The current system is less than ideal and i used to play alot of more of GR Sim back in the day but imagine the amount friendly fire there would be if the matchmaking was the same as GR RB. You now have M18s and Shermans in every nation when it was USA only back in those days.
WW2 6 presets, 1-3-2-5-4-6. Cold War 5 presets, 1-4-2-3-5.
@@DintheDinster yes that's because the UI for sim is the most broken unintuitive mess ive ever seen
@@CaFPhantom11 ok thanks
As someone who routinely plays all BRs of sim mode as planes tanks and helicopters (playtime in that order). I think this is a great idea. Top tier Helicopters would be fighting with long range missiles against planes with long range missiles. In fact in ground sb as a plane pilot, i find myself dying to helicopter missiles just as much as spaa, i think the helicopters could hold their own. Also spotting helicopters is less difficult than you think even without radar. You would see them in the feed and immediately know that they are in 1 of maybe 3 spots max then just fly over to that area of tanks and you'd see them pretty fast without radar. I often play ground sb just to hunt helicopters, they are less defenseless than people think (at least at the top tier)
The helicopters would do more then hold their own. They could easily sit outside the ranges of runway anti air take out planes taking off or landing. You could also do this to other heli bases unless they hide the locations on the map.
Fun fact ive got more air kills in my Mi-28A (dosent have AA missiles) in GRB just by using the gunner as it had lead calculation and i can get quite easky kills on su25-A10s when they are flying straight even with ATGMS because the gunner can lock onto rhem without giving a radar ping 😂
Having Air RB EC with no enemy markers would be a great place to add helicopters too.
It's strange that you can unlock the helicopter tree by reaching aircraft level V, given that you can only play with them with other vehicles in ground battles.
One thing I've been thinking for a while is that it's been 6 years since they tested the Enduring game mode in air RB, it would be cool to test it again with the top tier aircraft, and add helicopters along with it. Without a spotting system they would be as difficult to see as in tank RB, and with a giant map they would be less focused than the planes themselves, as they are difficult to see with the radar and the map is very wide, making it difficult to find them with your eyes.
It's supposed to be GROUND rb not AIR SUPERIORITY (air superiority update reference 🙀)
This would get me actually excited to play helicopters for once, I loved flying rotors in DCS but in war thunder there's just no way to play it as it should be atm
Theyll just bring f16c with thermal pods and maverick to sealclub the helicopters 😂😂
The only real threat in Helicopter PvE is the convoy SPAA. The SPAA from ground attacks/defense can be dodged with relative safety if you know how to dodge. Their AI seems to be level 2 out of 4 in the Heli PvE SPAA. Level 1 AI is the falcons that "protect" the ground base targets. They are easily jammable if you fly directly over the turret. This causes them to kinda bug out for a bit by turning left and right for a bit before fixing itself. You only really die to them from those 1 in a million lucky pilot snipes when you are flying in a straight like the entire time, or even hover for too long. The Gepard is the worst if you go by how common it is to all maps. They will somehow find their mark even though you have evaded the best you can when closing range.
Level 4 AI? It's those damn ZA-35s on that one red canyon map. They need to be outright removed from Helicopter PvE. They will instantly kill or cripple if you get within sniffing range of them. There is no killing them unless you can out range them. If you miss, you are dead.
4:07 its no randomized, they have stabilished certain br brackeys, being 4 for top and 7 for low ground sb. In the top you have 1 day witb helis and no aa wuth guided ammo, so they have helia of lower tuer, usually with atgms yhat dont have more than 3km of reach, and 2 of them have guided ammo aa, being onw dor top gelis, and one for all helis, the fourth bracket doesnt have helis at all, se iy as an early korean war thing.
Another great idea would be moving ground targets from the center of a map in to more dedicated local areas. Its not a new things, some maps got it (at the start, or after some updates) They mostly did it in favor of ground attackers, but it would be also good for helis.
This! Have been playing sim air with a group of friends lately, and we just discussed how perfect helicopters would fit in air sim!
Fully agree, won’t mind seeing helis in Air SB. Will actually consider taking one or two out myself. Big fan of Air SB and irl fixed-wing pilot, I have always been fascinated by helicopters, just could not afford the costs of doing the training. Used to play Gunship 2000 many winters ago and enjoyed it immensely.
Honestly I feel like if a heli pvp mode was added it would probably be both teams sitting at a distance shooting missiles at each other, but I do agree heli pvp needs a home
Heli PvP was only made to sell alot of helicopter premium since you got to shit on people who didn't, just look up the sheer number of sales made from them,
this is proven by the fact they removed Heli PVP instead of balancing it with literal BR system in the game for more than a decade, and made a PvE mode with literal garbage rewards, mundane and repetitive gameplay.
though helicopters in ARB or even ASB is a great idea, kill feed problem? just remove kill feed for helicopters or AI units, having to fly 14km in your heli? just move the helipads closer,
No easy targets? just make more AI units in the map and more spread out.
Helicopters are pretty potent at defending themselves in fact, as long as you don't get a 9M shoved in you which you can simply preflare before it launches granted you have enough CMs,
helicopters with targeting computer can kill aircraft 2-3km away easily, not to mention AAMs will deny aircraft strafing you as long as they don't preflare (they will)
and even if a 9M launches at you, you can shoot the 9M down with your AAM,
hell 9Bs are mostly used to shoot down all aspect missiles against you like in F4C or F104A
No WAY you have less than 1k subs. Dude, nice vid. I hope you gain more popularity.
The thing is, helis with dumbfire rockets is great when you play slow and don’t rush. Many of them after 9.3 I believe have cockpit ballistic computer. If you hang out around 2km from the battlefield, enemy ground actually can’t hear you until you’re within 1.5km. Currently sitting at around 800 kills in the AH-1F playing in a CQB fire support role in the early game and also hunting AAs off the bat.
To help the grind, they need to increase the rewards drastically for helicopter battles and have proper BR brackets so someone in the AH-1G, UH-1, or Allouette isn’t getting minimal points, competing with Ka-50s, Mi-35s, Tigers, and other super advanced helis.
Finally someone else that shares my point of view, I have talked about this several times over the past 3 years and everyone thinks I am mad for even thinking this.... It is good to see that I am not alone to see this is a the most logical thing to do for helis... Speaking of, in Air Sim as of yesterday there are helipads that are bombed out by friendly and enemy planes depending on the maps, Mozdok does not have it or Stalingrad (Both summer and winter versions) but pretty much any other map has helipads that are bombed out as reward bags
gamemodes like bomber escort with RB and SB would be nice, like you have to escort a bomber formation while other players trying to shoot it down
I absolutely agree, I even had the same idea
There was a third (I guess first) heli only mode, when they were first introduced. Pretty much the same as the other heli PVP, but it had different objectives
That's how you would turn Sim into "fly a plane and die to a TY90 simulator".
Its an interesting idea. Chopper grinding in RB is a LONG, LONG road. Chopper sim is ok but its a lot of flying between targets. I think the chopper bases in RB could be ALOT closer to the action. Choppers are very delicate and can be taken out with a tiny bit of lead. Many chopper pilots have no idea how to use cover or 'collusion' and just waste tickets for their team. Thanks for the vid. Snail needs to take a look at this!
adding it ontop of the PvE would be a good idea , bc some people dont have the sim layout, but i also thing Heli's could also be in Air RB and take up the bomber slots
Your spot on. Throw in some mid map FARPs and up the spawning objectives and we would be good to go. You helicopter guys can go after the convoys. Planes cant even touch them as the AA guns are deadly at all ranges. Often random ground units that spawn in for a objective stay on the map long after the objective was completed or failed. Just right for helicopters to hunt down.
"Helicopters have been in the game for almost 6 years"
Me: *dies of feeling old*
I agree, but we need easier controls for mouse players on sim, cause helis on sim mode are a pretty hard vehicle to control even with assistanxes
I personally do not believe helis in a sim game are a good idea at least at top tier. As that will be a very very poor experience for both sides as the maps are huge and the helis will be slowly floating through that to get to a set of ground targets just for an su25 or f16 to have already killed them. Then on the inverse as a jet trying to fight the helis their auto tracker is way too strong if they can get that locked on and for some reason their IRCM stops radar missiles
That would be a great concept, but somehow gaijan would manage to mess it up just like my key bindings
As someone that only plays air simulator i think this is a really good idea because i myself would like to fly a helicopter
I think they should also be added to air rb because the heli controls for sim are terrible on keyboard and mouse. Just change the detection parameters for helis so their nametags dont pop up until really close up, like less than 2km close.
It is not terrible, you just have to properly set it up
@@IonPerseus you don't even play the game
I believe that a simulator mode with all vehicle types on a large air sim map also works and that the tanks are then not only about jolon into a City and Die, but also more tactics come into the Tank gameplay.
I am all for trying to integrate helicopters into Air Simulator... but that mode would need a whole rework. There are so many problems I couldn't list them all in a single YT comment. I would love to see it, but I don't see Gaijin putting in that much work. They couldn't even get a simple Helicopter PVP mode to work when all they had to do is split the helicopters up into 3-4 different BR ranges.
I quite like the heli pve, mostly find it quite relaxing, especially compared to ground & air RB.
I generally get a module researched per match or two, so its been really good for researching the new helis and spading, as well as making a crap ton of SL with boosters... but you ost me when you got to using SIM!
i have no issues with stock rocket pods
that's actually the best way to use a Heli... unless you're in a Huey
several things:
* grinding stock helis is still easier in RB (RB players have next to no situational awareness, you get assisted spotting markers, in sim all you have is the totally-realistic sound awareness and your eyeballs within the cockpit)
* the lineup isn't random
* queue times more than make sim the least efficient mode to grind helis - it took me 14 months to grind through the allouette II
* BRs need to be fixed big time for helis for them to get implemented to air sim. Some things will be impossible to balance like 90% of the chinese heli tree because TY-90 exists even on their terrible helis
as someone who plays air sim alot.. this would be amazing, it would feel more like a DCS server, even in DCS spotting helicopters is tough and they are fairly balanced, also Flying low to try and track a helicopter is dangerous as it can easily get guns on you while using terrain..
I for one completelly agree, simply because as pure Air RB and Air SB player, I have never actually played helis outside of "Test drive" because I simply am not interested in playing tanks, and you have to to get SPs for a heli which is a catch 22 for me.
Fun fact, I love to fly the Mi-24 in simulator mode, but I never had the chance to actually play it in simulator battles
@DiamondBack we have opened up a forum on WT where people could go and pitch their ideas its been there for 2 years now if I am correct. That is how long we have been asking Gaijin to implement helis into air sim. So I think the more people engage in that discussion the better the chances are for them to implement it.
I %100 agree with Diamond on this one! Helicopters really need an update and they really should make all this happen. Amazing video keep it up!
Or i mean, they could just do helicopter p v p and just make it so the battler atings fight their own battle ratings
me and a few friends have done this in a custom battle. 3 of us in jets, 2 helicopters and 2 tanks. the helicopters would take out the tanks, and the planes take out the helicopters. the helicopters kept killing the tanks, and we couldnt find them, so yeah they should totally add them to air sim.
I think a lot of people would be interested in this discussion in the Wingaling Discord. It's mostly sim players in there and helis are a common topic. The owners also have some contact with Ganjin and can sometimes influence changes!
False,Wingaling has absolutely 0 influence over Gaijin ,but his discord is indeed a very nice place for War Thunder sim.
@@PepegaSquadFlying they did have a big influence on how the changes for sim were implemented with the economy update, but yeah unfortunately not much since. I was under the impression that communication is getting better, from some of his recent streams, but maybe not...
Another thing I've realized is how easy it is to just kill a helicopter with any and all tanks because of how the game uses mouse aiming, if it used a more steelbeast/ GHPC style aiming it would make the game harder, more fun, and also make shooting down aircraft harder. There's also a lot of people who want helicopters in air sim. It would just work and itd be fun af which would also be able to help introduce transportation objectives.
Also ground sim had a trial period using a BR system which made getting into games really fast and it was amazing. I really want them to bring it back
You forgot about that era when it was just EC but PVP+E helis. The KA50 and 52 were running rampant because of how OP the Vikhrs were
split MM into BRs, viola, problem solved
Cold-War/Modern SPAA not being so prolific or low in spawn cost would definitely help alittle. The fact that people spawn in SPAA in the beginning of the match goes to show just how all-encompassing it is when it is supposed to be a specialized role.
well yes people are going to spawn spaa when people are spawning as helicopters rushing their team like what????
@@Xackory Way to completely miss the point. It’s almost entirely risk free to spawn in an SPAA in the beginning of the match. Especially if you are in something like a Gepard that can holds it own even if a helicopter doesn’t show up.
I’m alright with SPAA being low cost to spawn in but to spawn in it at game start past a certain BR should probably be slightly more.
I enjoy flying the AH-1G and some others in Assault: Ground Arcade, in VR that is
War Thunder Future lies in the enduring confrontation Game Mode.
In high tier it has even more potential.
Special, bigger, historical maps.
This mode is already in the game, it is you who ain't willing to learn it.
@@IonPerseus you don't even play the game 😒 just annoying replies from someone who knows nothing
@@GumMonster1 the RB players just try to soak the features of already existing gamemode into their zone of comfort, while they could just progress into aknowledging the game more by learning new controls/gamemodes. The only reason EC is almost dead now is utter ignorance of playerbase using the sheep tactic "not my gamemode - none of my business"
@IonPerseus the game mode is not dead. At top tier it has never been more populated. Your perception is one of a casual player.
@@GumMonster1 because top tier is flooded with fancy new premiums and exaggerated expectations of great farm potential, yet you often barely can find a room from 5.7 to 9.0. Only in EC exists economic system that DISCOURAGES active gameplay and player achievements, yes, guys do love to dogfight, but only because of sheer enthusiasm, and they arent making any profit by constantly killing and dying, even ARB nowadays more profitable than EC. And on top of that - PvE rooms, fucking miserable.
There was a time that they had Ground Sim Battles where you can bring any vehicle. They were testing it out. Also to get rid of Heli PvE and move the players to sim would be bad for console due to them not having control wizard and having to set up sim controls which is already confusing to do on controller
this is actually a great idea
Absolutely think it’ll be a great idea. I love helicopters so much in the game but it is always short lived
Adding helicopters to sim would also add something to WT for the first time: A game mode where every vehicle type is present, even if not player controlled.
Honestly I have no idea why this has never been the case before, it's just weird to think that it"s never been the case out of custom battles.
Also I think it would be cool to be able to have super big battles with every vehicle type controlled by players but I can see why this would require a lot of power and probably wouldn't be that fun.
Wish they had a mode with simulator maps. With whatever the max player count is with two teams. Bigger areas to capture, do like 60% of the center map in open and the 20% on both sides is friendly or enemy territory and will be shown on the map.
You see, RBEC and this together would probably keep a super healthy player base. And it's as easy as just borrowing sim assets for other modes or combining modes to help keep server usage optimal.
The list on SB isn't randomized, its on rotation, so you can actually plan ahead of time what days you can play with what nation, But it's still a pretty shitty system. I remember once like a year or maybe two ago that they got rid of that restriction for simulator battles for like one week and you could play whatever lineup whenever. Best week ever in war thunder history, god i miss it
I would love this !
I like all of this but the point @7:30 of "not being able to see or radar and enemy helicopter" gets thrown out the window pretty easily when you fly an A-10, Jaguar, Harrier Gr.7 or anything else with a FLIR or camera pod, especially if it has thermals. In my experience, the Su39 has been KILLER in sim just because the camera/radar pod allows you to survey the airspace. Maybe there's a meta to be made with attackers/slow top tier jets and helos though.
What DiamondBack is asking for is the same thing the Person vs Person mode used to be like where there were bases to kill on each side of the map the mode he is explaining is pretty much what the PvP mode was as you did have to kill the ground targets the game told you to kill just like Air Sim is right now but you were in a helicopter with a team like ground RB is. Pretty much what is said here has kind of already similarly been done YEARS ago in Helicopter battle mode before it was PvE but it was just helicopters and no other air vehicles.
But good idea in the video and some have already been tried but Im sure there would be a lot more to it than we think there is. But nice little video maybe Gaijin sees it and gets a spark in there heads , nice job and good luck 👍sorry about the book typed below 😁
for reference you can look at dcs pvps. Helicopters can be an easy pick for jets, but a skilled heli pilot can be very dangerous.
They actually have a lot of maps but locked in custom battles AND test drive scenario generators
I'd love to see sim battles turned into a true "combined battles" kind of game mode (now hear me out) ground battles and naval battles already take place in air sim battles. what if it was made so that the ground battles and naval battles that happen in air sim battles are actually PvP matches. they could make a few generic city templates like the bases that get bombed and that would populate a sector for a ground battles to commence (with actual players queing into ground sim battles) and the same deal for naval you just wouldn't have to add in any assets and the results of those battles determine the frontline on the map. Very ambitious game design but that would make the gameplay and all the different vehicles really become relevant to an overall grind
I love helicopters but like you said getting to actually play them and have fun in them is challanging. I really hope they do what you suggested at least to test this out.
I wish, they fix stingers first before adding something like this. Pretty much every heli that uses stingers, is defenseless against anything flying since stingers prox fuzes are bugged. They just fly past the target and don't explode, even if it's 1-2 meters away.
I feel like WT just needs a dedicated air vs ground gamemode, because on top of the issues with helicopters theres a very similar issue with bombers and strike aircraft too (specifically at higher BRs) in that you either take them in to ground RB and you either ruin the tank players day or get sniped by radar spaa or missles before you get close, or take them into air RB where you just get an AAM up your but before you get to do anything, and even if you dont its only worth it to destroy bases, attacking AI gives you basically nothing.
So we need a dedicated gamemode for air vs ground combat, even if the ground units are just AI, that isnt a half baked mess like the PVE gamemode we currently have.
I would like to see a dedicated air realistic pve game mode, the heli mode was a good step but having a tank or plane game type like that would be relaxing
If I play simulator on VR, the addition of helicopter wouldn't change my experience, I can't see enemy jets unless I first get them on my radar, and trust me I won't be able to locate an helicopter
Even when the ground sim BR allows helicopters it often heavily skews the balance in one teams favor by giving one team (almost always China) access to helicopters that have both air to air missiles and countermeasures while the opposing nations won’t get to use helicopters with those features. See Z19vs AH1-F..
Actually an excellent idea tbh. I don't play much of helis, or air sim. But if this was added, I would probably set up my flightstick and vr to at least give it a go. From my limited experience with air sim (just from watching others play it, not from playing it myself) I think it would be a great addition, especially since PvE is a fairly big part of air sim.