I was born in 1971. The prequels are far more interesting to me. Sure, there's bad dialogue and acting, but that is true about the OT as well. Plinkett can eat me.
Honestly, yeah you are hitting the nail on the head. You can kind of see where a lot of ppl got their style from when doing video essays. These vids were so popular that they became rhe monolith on how to review something on youtube. Which was basically trashing a movie in a comedic way while trying to appear intelligent yet edgy. Its fostered a type of review stylr that can breed a lot of toxic fans, which is what happened. I remember in college if anyone would bring up the prequels, someone would say "watch the the plinkett reviews". This was actually really good
18:23 How in the hell is that proto-incel? Shallow maybe(though that's by design), but its true that men in their early 20's just want to get laid, women have their sights aimed a little higher. If it was incel, Plinkett would have said something about how women only date chads
I don't like how you undermine Mike's deadpan style by implying his more crass and satirical jokes have "proto-incel" energy. That implies a level of unintelligence I would scarcely ever put on them, myself. These guys are old enough to come from a very different train of thought, one that while outdated can't necessarily coexist with our own. The people who appreciate RLM the most are the sort to just take their humor for what it is and not personally.
Hes playing a racist character, being funny so making fun of ignorant people like racists. To me this is the embodiment of anti-racism. Same goes with women haters etc.
Genuinely mate. You should 1000’s of subscribers. The quality of your content is great. Your channel will grow and grow and I wish you the best of luck.
Idk what’s more embarrassing - the fact that I made this video or the fact that nearly 2 thousand people have watched it. But for real lol thanks for checking it out!
I'll give you an example of how misleading Redlettermedia can be: In his review for the Phantom Menace, he claims that the opening scene contains awkward, boring political dialogue that goes on and on. But at the beginning of the film, Obi wan and qui gon have a brief conversation about the force, not about politics. Also, viceroy doesn't talk about politics; he talks about how to deal with the Jedi. In the opening scene of the Phantom Menace, the viceroy talks mainly about sending his troops to kill the Jedi, not boring political dialogue.
@@observerdude9809 Personally I disagree on the entertaining part but yeah. Also I have an analysis of TPM on my channel that also debunks Plinkett and I’m almost finished writing my analysis of AOTC (95% done)
I didn't realize how much of an impact Mr Plinkett reviews had on TH-cam video essays until I found Hbomberguy and ContraPoints content. Everything from the multi-part format, the dark humor, psychotic characters narrating the essays, even the voice was inspired from Mr Plinkett reviews.
what you describe as mysogonistic is actually consistency. i think its fair to say that a guy who locks women in his basement and tortures them is quite mysogonistic. Thats the guy you watch the review of. It´s a satire. If you don´t like the humor, thats fine. Buit it doesn´t make the person a racist, mysogonistic or whatever. I am sure you are not aware of this, but the actual nazis (I know, I know, the "nazi" argument) at the time accepted satire of their own behaviour (as maniacial warmongers for example). I think we in free societies should at least rise to the level of the nazis regarding what is ok as satire, if not better surpass them.
Hey, thanks for the comment. Not sure if you ended up watching the entire segment where I discussed Plinkett's misogyny, because I think it speaks for itself, but I'll try to clarify and summarize my main point. I don't have any issue whatsoever with a character being sexist or misogynistic. If the joke is "look at how horrible this person is for being so sexist", there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that there are moments in these reviews where Mike Stoklasa, the writer/voice, is being *unironically* misogynistic. Places where it goes beyond "haha, isn't it silly how this guy is so horrible to women" and it just becomes shitty to women. I cite specific examples where I feel this is the case. Whether you agree that those moments are a step too far is on you; I made the point as best as I could in the piece. But again, I have absolutely zero qualms with ironic/satirical misogyny or sexism, and I mention several points where I feel the videos get it right. Lastly, you desperately need to find a better analogy than the Nazis, dog. That shit was wild. Cheers.
@@FionavanDahl Thanks for checking out the video! At first I thought you were the guy I replied to and I thought he had a slight change of heart. Oh well.
@@doesitholdup I did watched the whole video. If I critize your video, that should be a requirement 🙂 And again: Mr. Plinkett is the mysogynist in the video, you don´t hear anything from Mike. He is obviously in character all the time. Thats why I said, you can like or dislike this kind of satire, but your accusations were gone to far. Thats why I brought up the nazi example. I wouldn´t call it an analogy and it wasn´t meant as such (sorry, no native english speaker here). Take it as educational, I bet you knew nothing about it. It certainly whats to some extend educational for me on how I address satire.
I was born in 1994, loved phantom menace when I first saw it, hated the second two when I first saw them, and as an adult, I can confirm mikes prediction. I just watched thru whole prequel trilogy and I could not have been more bored. I think his critiques are solid and they really are poorly written and just strange. Nothing wrong if you’re nostalgic for them, but that doesn’t make them good. I will say he is pretty opinionated tho.
Great analysis and honesty, this makes me appreciate RLM a bit more (even though you showed some pretty cringe stuff they did at one time or another). Despite the Mr. Plinkett character inspiring bad-faith copy cats who used a lot of the same devices to bait people into getting angry and hating the people that make the movies more than the movies themselves, RLM has yet to try to cash in on that trend. I don't watch much of their stuff nowadays but even when I do, I disagree with them a lot of their reviews. I think they are way too harsh on most of the big-budget movies but I still appreciate their analysis and they are still legitimately funny at times.
The answer to this question is yes. They're absolutely still relevant and amazingly concise. Edit: Actually watching this through it has less to do with the prequel reviews and more of a commentary on Mike and his own views so in that sense the title and video are just clickbait. You could have ended the video at the 12:29 point instead of steering us through the mire of talking points and decade old quotes because it's completely irrelevant to the reviews even if Mike is the basis for Plinkett. It was always painfully obvious that Plinkett is a horrible person, the humor was in the fact that a guy who was so unapologetically so could also be sitting in his home recording a beautifully brilliant analysis and have objectively strong lessons to teach the average viewer. I don't see anything here of note other than your whole "well I liked the movies and others of my generation do too so Mike is wrong" which congrats or something. There's a good amount of depth that was added to them through the focus Disney placed on Prequel era content as you mentioned yourself and the movies benefitted from The Clone Wars adding a level of gravitas to the characters and story that didn't exist previously. The prequels in a bubble are horrible.
I don't have much of an issue with RLM - they're just another platform on the internet who made a series of videos expressing their nerdy dislike of a film trilogy with some hooker jokes thrown in for laughs. Only thing I can directly criticise them for is mispresenting the production process of the films. What I DO have an issue with is the circlejerk of a fanbase they've cultivated. If anyone ever expressed an even remotely positive opinion of the prequels, they'd be absolutely buried in such a childish and intolerant manner. I've literally come across old Reddit posts where they referred to people who praised the prequels as no better than 'holocaust deniers' or '911 truthers" or just outright calling them 'mentally ill'. Guys ... vindication by history is a thing you know? Art IS subjective in regards to the value we find in it. And the Plinkett reviews aren't the be all and end all of film criticism that people hold them up to be, where they apparently 'belong in a museum'. I'd recommend Style is Substances critique of the TPM as a good for thought alternative analysis of the films, so as to break the circlejerk in a way that isn't just reactionary.
I have not seen those videos, but these seem to give a good impression. I do think that calling the prequals bad is neccessery to appreciate the criticism. You could say that the visuals, while imperfect, were ahead of the time. You could say that the writing, while clunky, is smart when you look at it. And I dont think some of the cirticisms land. For example, that scene where obi wan talks about the lightsaiber being super important: the fact that it contradicts the belifs of the jedy and contrasts the way the viewer saw the jedi in the original trillogy is sorta the point. The jedi are falling from grace, too invested in the politics, too arrogant about their continued existance.... If anything, these clips are praising the movie for subtly making a point against the jedi. Or I can talk about how the lack of a single protagonist is not necesserely a bad thing and try listing some good movies which do that. You need to watch some praise of the prequals which actually goes into the writing or talks about the production. There is a lot to appreciate with the prequals and i felt sad when you talked about how they are stupid fun for you and how you accepted that it is bad.
Thank you for the comment and for checking out the video! I may not agree with it all, but you definitely bring an interesting perspective. Cheers! That said, I’d absolutely recommend you check out the reviews themselves. Anything I say in this video won’t do them justice and maybe in the full context some of the arguments may land better, they’re definitely explained in more detail than the short snippets I used. Once again, thanks for taking a look and giving your perspective!
If you didn't watch the source material, but instead based your ideas on clips from TH-cam.... congratulations, that seems to be the process used in most Hollywood productions now. They are worth watching though, even if you disagree with M Stoklasa, it's interesting to see the inspiration for a thousand channels, and how different people went in different directions with it. Also they are very funny.
Yoda said "war doesn't make one great" AFTER the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire while Obi Wan said "this sword is your life" BEFORE. The timeline is important here. The six movies are supposed to be watched in chronological order so this is not precisely a good example of Mike's criticism "being on point". It's rather an example of him ranting the movies were bad because he didn't liked them. By the way, as George Lucas explained, the protagonist in the Phantom Menace is Padmé Amidala. Not surprising Mike didn't related though.
The prequels endured because of 3 factors - the OT propping them up from the start, The Sequels being a significant step down- a feat which many believed impossible - and because theres just enough actual good and also weird about the prequels they were saved by memes. I would also say a partial backlash to RLM, brought out by a fairly underwhelming response to the ST
Plinkett reviews are entertaining (not really to me but hey, everyone has there own taste and preferences) but are extremely overrated. From what I've been told, they do an excellent job criticizing Star Trek (I'm not much of a Trekkie, but I'm starting to get into it). As for their reviews on Star Wars? Uh, not so much. Half of the time, they're just whinging about things without giving valid criticisms. It's so bad that other TH-cam channels like Rick Worley and Anomaly Inc can disprove most of their arguments since they bother to do their research and they wind up making asses out of themselves when they present evidence that proves to the contrary what Red Letter Media says. Hate to burst your bubbles but whinging isn't criticism. It's just whining for the sake of whining. And before anyone says anything, I'm not a Red Letter Media hater. I'm indifferent towards them due to the fact that they make dumb points/criticism but they make valid points/criticisms as well. My biggest issue with them is that they act holier-than-thou behaving like they're know-it-alls than casual film goers and treat people who don't agree with them as unintelligent. And before
The Prequels... I saw the original Mr Plinkett reviews when I was a child, and I loved them. Prequel hate was big at the time and I just kinda fell in. Re-watching them now with a jaundiced eye... the Prequels are not good overall, but they have three saving graces. 1) The highs. Sometimes in the prequels you'll get scenes where the quality (to me) just jumps up massively. Scenes like Darth Maul's 'talk' with Palpatine, The March of the Clones, Darth Plagueis the wise... these scenes do so much to elevate the films overall because they stick out from the usually wooden, uninteresting padding. 2) The worldbuilding. Say what you want about the execution, but most of what people love about later projects like the Clone Wars was laid down in the Prequels. Jedi culture, Republic politics, the Clones (and their Wars)... lots of scenes I used to hate like Valorum's deposition become nail-biting once the full context is known. It's not directly due to the movie being good, but it sure beats the Sequels being scared to say anything about anyone (New Republic? What's that?). 3) The action. Here is where I actually disagree with Plinkett. I loved the action in the prequels. Sure it lacks weight, but why would a massless lightsaber need that? Sure it seems choreographed, but these are space wizards who read the future to know the next move. The technical and stunt achievements of prequel lightsaber duels have only made them more impressive in my eyes, not less. And the memes. Oh, the memes, they speak for themselves. The Prequels may not be good films, but oh boy were they great narratives. That, I think, is the x-factor that makes them popular.
I would say that his videos never held up in the first place, as a lot of his criticisms are things that are only really true if you don't pay attention to the films. (Examples: Anakin's turn to the dark side was rushed and nothing significant happened with him until Episode III, Anakin's relationship with Padmé is bad, Anakin's motive for turning evil was just a bad dream, Episode I has no main character, and the prequels had an overuse of CGI).
Technically episode I not having a main character is true bur not a negative thing. In the commentary of the phantom menace Lucas said he didn't want to have one main character so he just made the whole film just of be from the pov of the jedi.
True and true. Anakin was already one foot in the Dark Side after his mother's death in Episode II, the seeds of his downfall were sown before Episode III, his relationship with Padme was at most, adequate, and Anakin already expressed authoritarian tendencies before his fall. (ie. Anakin telling Padme that they should have one guy force everyone to follow the rules back on Naboo during their date.) So even if Padme didn't exist, Anakin would've sided with the Emperor anyways, since he agrees with the Emperor's politics, and the man is friendly to him while the Jedi Council is not. As for central protagonists, Episode I followed Qui-Gon Jinn the whole way through; he's the senior Jedi of the pair that we follow through the story as Obi-Wan Kenobi's master. We see him on the Trade Federation ship, we follow him to Naboo where he picks up the Queen and Jar Jar, we follow him to Tatooine where he schemes to get Anakin free, we follow him to Coruscant and back to Naboo again. When he dies, there's a tragic musical piece that plays, which signifies the death of the hero, and the passing of the torch to Obi-Wan Kenobi. Qui-Gon is clearly the protagonist of the film, since it was his mission to help Padme and his insistence that Anakin be trained as a Jedi which kicks off the plot of the entire six-movie series of classic Star Wars.
@@HolyknightVader999 Not to mention that his inability to let go and possessiveness of attachments is hinted at multiple times in Phantom Menace. Anakin’s distrust of the Jedi starts in this film as well when they reject him and that starts a divide between Mace and Anakin especially. (Although I’d argue that their rivalry isn’t developed at all in Episode II, which I consider a shame.
To be fair as far as possible racism, was Mike just doubling down on the Plinkett schtick or was it a genuine belief he had? And, if it was a genuine belief he had, was it because he didn't know a lot of black geeks back in the day and saw a lot more of the macho aspects of black culture (and let's be fair, there's a lot of problematic stuff in black culture such as homophobia and misogyny; doesn't mean they haven't gotten a shit deal over the years or that they don't deserve respect and empathy) or did he just ignore the fact that there have always been black geeks? In other words, were his beliefs based on actual observation or just ignorance. Let me put it this way, I went to high school in the mid 90s, much like the RLM gang. I didn't notice a lot of black geeks back then. Some, but not an overwhelming majority. I barely heard any of them talk about Star Wars, if at all. Most of them talked about sports, a subject I had no interest in. Or bodybuilding. A subject I also had no interest in, If his comments as Plinkett were his own views, I get the feeling they were out of a place of ignorance rather than malice. Not to say that it was okay, but it is worth examining. At any rate, he seems to have grown past that viewpoint if he indeed did have it back then. I have too, as the black geek community seems to be a lot more visible now. Though I wonder if it's because it's not considered to be social suicide as much as it was back then. Like were black geeks just as numerous back then, but they hid it for fear of ostracization from both gatekeeping white assholes and fellow blacks who might see their hobbies as "lame?"? I honestly don't know. Good retrospective overall. I'm glad that you understand that enjoyable doesn't always equal good. So many people seem to not get that.
Mike is still right, public perception shifted because Disney dropped the ball so hard on the sequels that they accidentally made the prequels look good in comparison.
I agree mostly. It's just people that were really young looking back on a movie they grew up with with rose colored glasses. Every generation has done that. That doesn't change the fact that they remain entirely mediocre. I'd say the Revenge of the Sith is the only one that rises above that mediocre threshold. I consider it an average movie.
@@JihadiFemboy LMAO. Attack of the Clones sucks ass, my guy. You could write a thesis about Clones and you will never change my mind on it. Also, stop liking your own comments.
@@jayclean5653 My account is glitched it does that on its own, I've deleted and reinstalled the app but it still does this. Go and read my analysis because you'd see just how wrong Mike is on TPM. Then you'd be happy to see my AOTC analysis once I release it (it's 95% done).
People often mention the length of the prequel reviews, especially for episode III, but a part of the reviews are sketches that have nothing to do with the films themselves.
Which is funny because Mike is really basically a Liberal person. I'm a 54-year-old Liberal and I guess I'm at the point where I recognize that we need police-defunding them would be stupid because there are criminal scum that care nothing about their fellow human beings-but I'd also like to see US police conform to the Deescalation/Use-Of-Force Statistics of Canada, the UK and the EU. I think we have NO DUTY to marijuana-prohibition laws, but I also think child-rapists should be burned alive in town squares....that's not bad, is it?
Without the benefit of the Clone Wars / Rebels TV shows, which gave context and actual character development utterly missing from the films, would gen z really think as highly of the prequel films? Granted, totally get the nostalgia factor. I can respect that take. With the understanding that nostalgia does not make something "good".
@@jayclean5653 Hard disagree with that. I found Clone Wars to just be supplementary material, and the context and character development to all be present in the films
@@onemoreminute0543 What's something about Darth Maul's backstory from the actual film? Or General Grievous? Or Count Dooku? Or Sheev Palpatine? Or young Obi-Wan? Or Qui-Gon? Like, they just exist. We don't learn anything about them. We don't get any motivations aside from "this is a good guy. this is a bad guy. action!"
And, don't get me wrong. The animated shows give us these answers. And they're great characters in those. But, on their own, the movies are a hot mess of bad dialogue, 2d characters, and sterile blue screen backgrounds.
The movies are flawed, but my favorite part by far was Anakin. I found some of his scenes very emotional, but I'm also very sensitive to characters crying/getting emotional in movies, so that could be why. There was a great story in there, but the execution could've been a lot better. But to be fair, the original movies aren't perfect either, but they are better. I think the original plinket review voice is so annoying tbh 😭
My issue with the prequels was the execution. I’ve never had an issue with the storyline, just the directors choices and the very very odd decision to target them directly at kids. “The rise of Vader” trilogy really didn’t need to be a kid friendly, fart joke ridden cartoon. I like thinking about the prequel story, it was almost exactly how the story should have been told. If it had been shown through a more adult lens it would have improved immensely. The thing that makes the sequels so much worse than the prequels is the exact opposite issue. The execution was almost flawless. It looks exactly as it should have looked. The storyline of the trilogy however was abysmal, to the point of abject failure. No clear arc from 7-9, nothing essentially happens, in 8 absolutely nothing happens, some characters even go so far as to redo their arc from 7.
The Phantom Menace only has one fart joke and one poop joke. Mr Plinkett's video on the movie has more than that in a shorter amount of time. I debunked Mr Plinkett in my analysis of The Phantom Menace so go and read it on my channel
I guess it's just the quality of current Star Wars is so low that people have to resort to nostalgia to enjoy Star Wars again. The original trilogy is too old and dated, still enjoyable but has that 70's feel to it while the Disney trilogy is too forgettable, rehashed and uninteresting. Of the new offerings from Disney, the Mando series I believe will get the nostalgia effect in the future.
Mike is trying to get you to see past your nostalgia and to the truth that the movies aren't good. The Nerd Crew segments they did for a while was another great critique of the culture of fandomship and paid promotion on TH-cam. Their humor has always been crass and generally overtly offensive, however, I have noticed that it's been toned down. We generally see fewer Plinkett reviews and the newer ones we do see have far less of the dead wife jokes and are more targeted about these mega corporations that are running everything. They seem to be very progressive but are critical of being progressive for the sake of being progressive - "passive progressive". I think they still produce some of the best commentary on movies and shows. The Best of the Worst gang reminds me of my roommates in college when we'd have bad movie night and just laugh about what we watched. Just better at exploring why it's bad.
people who cashed in to prequel hate trend back in the day are partly the reason why we don't have the old EU anymore and why Disney owns the franchise instead of Lucas. they got what they wanted. former fans like me had no reason to keep following anything related to Disney's version of SW.
I just don't understand this obsession with nostalgia that younger millennials seem to have. Nostalgia is an emotion is for old people that's meant to comfort them before they die. Nostalgia is when you're in your 50's and find your little league catcher's mitt in the attic. Nostalgia is not when you're 30 still enjoying a low quality commercial product that you enjoyed when you were a dumb kid.
I appreciate you interrogating RLM/Mike’s views that were cringe. I agree they’ve changed (didn’t Mike have a girlfriend who was in a lot of early RLM stuff and then disappeared around the time he got pretty anti-women?) but his prequel opinions are still spot on.
Thanks for checking out the video! I hope you enjoyed it half as much as you love rubber. That said, I think you got your timeline backwards. Jessi stopped appearing in videos in 2015, and Mike and the crew were becoming less and less reactionary by that point as far as I can tell. Kinda related, but there's a clip of her decrying "feminist bullshit" in Wheel of the Worst episode 1 (2013). Take that implication however you want. th-cam.com/video/JkWk_chVcJk/w-d-xo.html Early in this video's production I had a segment exploring the other crew members but I cut it because the video goes way the fuck off the rails from its main topic enough already lol
@@doesitholdup Ah! Ok. I’ll admit that I was in and out on my RLM watching until I subscribed to them around 2020 so I probably watched a lot of their stuff out of order. I applaud your work in either being down from day one or going back and doing the research. The RLM-search? Never mind.
As someone who grew up with the originals and saw the prequels in my 20s and 30s.. I could see the complaints, however Revenge was one of my favs, just the starting battle over Core was epic. However I myself liked them, flawed yes..mostly the CGI
Don't worry. In six years you'll have said things and had takes that will be considered toxic or problematic and they will be used against you. As you said: language changes, times change.
Lol I'm sure you could find stuff from me from 10+ years ago that is significantly worse than anything I talk about in this video. I see no reason to judge someone by their past actions. What matters is who they are today, and I think I make that point clear in the video.
Wow, did he really wrote that forum post? Damn, I guess we all have some skeletons in our closets. I always saw Mike as pretty progressive even in the early 2010's.
19:13, "it isn't a joke, it isn't delivered with any pretense of irony"-- uh, it's delivered via a character who's a hundred years old, had killed multiple (now ex-) wives, had a mother speak to him from beyond the grave about where to bury bodies-- I mean, that's the entire bit!! Does anyone want a pizzaroll?
Shorthand for the prequel reverence is the derision for the poorly planned Disney sequel trilogy. At least George Lucas tried to tell a different story, even if the execution was stifled by his writing and direction.
It doesn't really surprise me Mike has had some toxic takes in the past. You can't expel dry crass humor like he can without having lived through being a cynical asshole. People change though and I'm sure Mike has as well as you lay out in this piece. Excellent video.
Lol RLM has an enormous backlog of silly skits and videos. Not exactly a hidden gem, but one of my favorite videos from them is when they discuss the intricacies of Darth Vader’s suit. th-cam.com/video/FVzc20Bm8Xo/w-d-xo.html
Its easy to take shots at Red Letter Media now. But understand this- the fans kept Star Wars alive....LONG after 1983. We the fans kept the franchise alive for decades, just with comics and buying SW novels. Fans have been buying comics since the first film. We kept it alive, because George had said for many years he didn't want to do the rest of the trilogy. After about 10 years of living off living off the royalties, I guess he finally said wait I can make even MORE money if I give these Simps what they have been wanting. So you can imagine our disappointment, when we walked out of Phantom Menace, and it was a boring mess about a kid. The OT holds on its own. The Prequels cannot do this. So its easy to say, nostalgia was what made the fans angry, and its nostalgia that makes you like the Prequels. Personally, I find it hard to believe, that what we got was what GL had envisioned all along. The Prequels would have been more streamlined if we didn't meet Anakin as a little kid. The whole fast forward 10 years doesn't work in SW.
I’d say it was less money and more of proving the increasing numbers of doubters in the public who found out that Georgie Porgie wasn't the sole mind behind Star Wars wrong. That he could make a new trilogy just as good as the OT all by himself. And when it failed to reach that standard, he threw in the towel and sold it off to Disney.
1) Actually, he did want to do the rest of the trilogy/story but was taking a break to wait for the technology to advance and to get his life back together after a divorce 2) Lucas was pretty satisfied with the vision he had for the prequels. It's just that in the space of over a decade, the fans expectations had changed and were arguably too big to appease. 3) It's funny, Lucas actually addressed the whole age of Anakin thing in a BTS book. He said how he definitely could have made Anakin older in TPM to appeal to a wider audience and commercialise it more, but it wasn't to the benefit of the story he was trying to tell. It was important to show Anakin leaving his mother at such a young age in order to show his attachment issues long term. Those issues wouldn't have been as believable or practical in the story if he left his mother at , say, the same age Luke was in ANH 4) For as much as the fans talk about how much Lucas doesn't 'get' Star Wars and it's style, if anything I'd argue that it's the opposite way round lol. This is what tends to happen when the visions of the artist and nerds clash
@@onemoreminute0543 As I have said multiple times, SW fans are more passionate than any other fan base. I never said I didn't get the reason why Anakin was young, I just said I didn't agree with it. See, you all have the luxury of seeing the finished product. We had to wait 3 years for the next one. And then when it came out, it didn't make expectation? We tried to keep an open mind. But we left the theater with more questions, and not answers every time. Look, today its hard to keep spoilers off 4Chan or other sites. And I can appreciate the pressure of trying to make lightning in a bottle again. I tried to explain the problem from perspective, which you seem to ignore. As far as my opinion of the movies, its mostly unchanged. TPM is a boring movie. You don't have a protagonist and the movie suffers for it. Also the Jedi way doesn't work in reality, if you kidnap kids from birth, eventually they are going to hit puberty. What are you going to do, give them boner be gone medication? I know, its not supposed to make sense, just like Anakin is space Jesus. AOTC - seems choppy and erratic in tone at times. I have a feeling they went crazy in the editing room. Like Padme/Anakin interactions. Han/Leia were passive/aggressive because they liked each other. I know Hayden had to work with what he was given. But I think it would have worked better if she wasn't relegated to his roommate, listening to him bitch about everything in his life, from the start. It just makes you sound like a woman, the opposite of attraction. Women need emotional variety, and are attracted to men whose feelings are unclear. There's no mystery where Anakin stands in her life. In reality, he would have been relegated to guy friend. Especially when she has to be saying, is this guy a borderline psycho all the time? But fuck it, she has to be some kind of codependent, because she looks the other way on him murdering a whole village. ROTS is the only one that seems to have a decent balance. If you think they are perfect, then fine. Enjoy your cookie. But understand that women are not here to keep the species going, they were put on the planet to punish the living shit out of weak men. They punish SIMPS like Anakin, that put her on a pedestal. I realize he led a sheltered life. But fuck it, its fiction. As Red Letter Media stated, you should not have to read the novels, watch the cartoons, etc to understand the story. Yeah, it helps. But the Prequels were set up for someone else to fill in the blanks. And I am pretty sure I have alluded to that. I also stated that GL was totally fine with novels that expanded the story, and gave his blessing on this. The Thrawn trilogy is one of the best of that era. All I know is that there was plenty of reason for the disconnect. If nostalgia is what kept it alive, then nostalgia is also the reason why it can't change the formula.
@@leoda_lion4107 1) Yeah, I agree SW fans are crazy passionate and obsessive. That's why I often have to take a step away from the fanbase once in a while due to how nerdmanic it can be. 2) Well, I do also agree that observing and watching the films is easier when all the pieces are together. I can only imagine how head scratching some decisions would have seemed in 1999 which payed off narrative wise in 2002 and 2005. 3) TPM was never going to meet the fan expectations - not when people are camping outside in tents just to see the trailer for the film. 4) I was just providing insight into why the decision to make Anakin a child in TPM was undertaken. You don't have to agree with it but when it comes to critiquing media it is rewarding to ask the question of 'why?' 5) The protagonists of TPM are Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. 6) I do actually think that AOTC suffers from a pacing and some drawn out scenes, which is partly the result of them trying to cram so much into the film. 7) There's a case to be made for the interactions between Han and Leia in Empire being more questionable than those between Anakin and Padme in AOTC. Empire's romance follows the ambiguous consent trope where even though the woman constantly says no, the man still pushes because he knows what she 'really' wants. By contrast in AOTC, Anakin does respect Padmes boundaries when he's rebuked at the fireplace scene. 8) Wow, a woman who is attracted to a serial killing man with a sympathetic past who is also pretty good looking? I've never seen that before! (/s) 9) You've got some.... interesting opinions about the 'role' of women on planet earth 10) No, you shouldn't have to rely on supplementary material to make sense of the prequels. And you don't have to. Keep in mind that I'm not some clapping seal. I do have many criticisms of both the PT and OT, but I do think for the most part they are pretty solid films.
I grew up with the prequels and not only grew up to realize they're trash, but to realize the old Star Wars was trash too I don't think I know anyone who thinks the prequels are ok
I wouldn't go so far to call them Liberal or social or whatever but they've grown beyond it. They don't care about left wing or right wing, they just want to see good movies and call out bullshit. One of the things I like about them the most is that they rise above the political discourse. And when they can't ignore it like with ms marvel they give a really nuanced take
The misogyny I was most annoyed by from rlm was when they reviewed alien covenant, and Mike said “strong red haired women, you’re a dime a dozen. There’s nothing special about your Ripley” implying that strong red heads can’t be a normal hero, just a cool commodity from a sci fi horror movie he likes from the 70’s. It’s annoying cause its played like a legitimate criticism, when it’s just saying “yeah, woman hero cool, but let’s not have too many, cause then it’s not special.” You could say that’s not what he intended, but typically misogyny isn’t intentional.
20:06 That seems to be your read of it, he doesn't say that women are coniving monsters or men are innocent bystanders. He says that they are sometimes hard to read and that you need to be assertive. Same thing like your previous criticism, like you've never thought of just wanting to get laid in your 20's or you needed to be assertive to get a girl to pay attention to you. Yeah right... Don't know where the hell did you get the underage girls part, the girls are clearly teasing him which comes back to bite them when they are captured by Plinkett.
Great vid. Thanks for doing it. The prequels will always rank very low for me due to the wooden dialogue, adolescent humor, Jar Jar, overly used green screen, and bad CGI. I only find ROTS remotely watchable but it's still plagued by the same issues. The horrible CGI/green screen of the entire Geonosis and Kashyeek battle scenes still makes me cringe hard. Lucas was so lazy and lost he was using CGI for stormtroopers when they were only 2 of them in the scene - e.g. for the attempted assassination of Yoda sequence. Why the hell would you not just build the tree hut set and use real performers in actual suits there? The only thing that should've been CG was Yoda. Everything else should've been practical instead of entirely CGI as it was. And there aren't any good excuses except being lazy and misguided as Lucas was for doing otherwise. The prequels had some of the worst CGI I had ever seen in a big-budget movie even on first viewing it. That trilogy is only looked fondly upon now by some due to nostalgia as you said. Not because they suddenly became good films. They also may have gotten a boost due to the sequels which were even worse. In comparison, the prequels look better especially since they were the last SW films we got from George.
So, you mentioned two criticisms from Plinkett's review and just tell us to accept them as fact I have an issue with how you dismiss the fact that Plinkett is wrong about any of the Prequel criticisms said by Plinkett in his reviews. I've watched the entire of those sections and the conclusion and it doesn't seem like you did any debate or analysis on these criticisms to really evaluate them to see if they actually hold up, you just state them as facts, and I would've liked to have seen evidence and reasonings that backup these statements as well. Now let's address Phantom Menace supposedly not having a main character. In my mind the main character is Qui Gon Jin (With Padme Amidala being the secondary main character) because he makes decisions and actions that push the story forward, like when he mind tricks Boss Nass when letting them take the Gungan's form of transportation through the water. He is the one who feels that the Force is telling him that there's something special about Anakin, and he's the one who feels that Jar Jar's knowledge of things and acting as a navigator on Naboo for them would be a good idea. As it turns out this is wrong according to Lucas. (Phantom Menace commentary th-cam.com/users/shorts66k4KiyRXAI?feature=share) But even so it makes sense that Padme Amidala would be at least one of the main characters because the story in the end is centered around the blockade and invasion of her planet. She fights against the Senate to take action against the injustice and is in the end a fighter. She makes the decision to see Tattooine because she's likely curious about the planet since she's lived on Naboo for presumably her whole life and was recently brought into politics two years prior. She directly devises the plan to infiltrate the palace when it's under control of the trade federation as well. As for the shot and reverse shot criticism, everyone who even has a bit of knowledge of Lucas as a filmmaker would know that he typically likes to shoot his films in a very documentary/objective shot style. When he was in film school, he originally wanted to make documentary films and wanted to create stories using what he called tone poems, which are films that tell stories through tactics such as montage to create emotion. Now on a surface level I can understand someone thinking this is just poor filmmaking at first because it apparently is one of the most basic tactics out there to direct shots, however according to 'The Star Wars Archives 1999-2005' Lucas uses A camera and B camera (Shot and reverse shot) so that he can capture a performance from both sides and is able to use that performance to a greater effect. George Lucas's documentary style also makes it so there's not a lot of attention paid to certain characters because George Lucas wants you to see these films as a story that is actually being told. It's why there's a bunch of establishing shots/objective shots as well as why characters like Jar Jar can move almost entirely off-screen, because Lucas is trying to add an element of realism to the whole Saga. So, to wrap this up this video is more of a 'Does Plinkett as a character holdup?' or 'Has the Reception of the Prequels changed?' because you don't discuss or analyze these Prequel criticisms enough to make that the center of your video. (heavily implied by the thumbnail)
First off, thanks for checking out the video! Sorry if you found the title and thumbnail misleading, I suppose. I hope you enjoyed it enough regardless. There are a couple of reasons why I didn't focus on Plinkett's actual criticisms too much relative to other topics. The main reason is because there have already been a million and one rebuttals of Plinkett's criticisms over the last decade. It's practically its own industrial complex. People have made it their whole lives to poke holes in these reviews. Just read through this comment section alone. The other reason is because I don't think any of the rebuttals over the years have been particularly compelling, and I don't have a lot negative to say about Plinkett's criticisms. As I state in this video, I actually am on board with the overwhelming majority of his criticisms and thoughts as to why they are fundamentally flawed films. In your comment alone I honestly don't feel like there were any particularly compelling arguments against Plinkett's points, no offense intended. I watched the reviews for this video without a particular agenda. I just took notes on the things that I thought were interesting and that's what the script became. My assessment of Plinkett's arguments is what I relayed in the video - I think they're, for the most part, sound, and that the countless reassesments of the Prequels are not.
@@doesitholdup In that case I would say that your video title and thumbnail is misleading because you make it sound like you’re going to debate or find reasonings to support Plinkett’s criticisms and I would’ve been interested to hear all about that. So I must say that I’m disappointed to see that you’ve skipped over it. I could’ve gone into more depth about the protagonist criticism but I felt like I said enough so I didn’t expand further on it. I wouldn’t mind if you could propose more criticisms for me to address. State of Star Wars, Style is substance, Icy the Fire Mage, Hive’s Mind (Some of his arguments could be better but don’t discount his opinion because he’s a teen), A Fanboy’s rebuttal to RLM’s Phantom Menace Review 108 Pages, Tesco’s Phantom Menace Review (on Letterboxd), Just an observation, and more provide fairly decent responses/addresses to Plinkett’s criticisms and support of the films.
@@polpot1925 Or at least average with their arguments and debates. To be fair there aren’t a lot of proper videos or analyses that address the criticisms in the Plinkett reviews directly so I won’t blame him if he saw some responses that weren’t as properly done or had as good video quality as I’m personally seen. I’ll be one of the first people to tell you that the first two films especially can have big flaws with them (Maul getting a trace on the Naboo cruiser/Padme’s perspective of the romance in Episode II. You’ve also got criticisms such as the unclear logic of the plasma shield walls in the power generator room or Palpatine’s plan occurring very conveniently to the point of being somewhat convoluted in two areas regarding Episode II.
@@skywalkerorder2170 Sorry to disappoint you more, but again, I really don’t have much of an interest to debate Plinkett’s criticisms (or their rebuttals) a whole lot. Also, you literally listed a bunch of people’s rebuttals to Plinkett. I’m sure you could find more lol. I’ve read a lot of them, and I think they’re all reaching. Maybe there would be cause to make a separate video breaking down all of these other people’s criticisms but 1. Stoklasa already did that essentially and 2. I think his reviews speak for themselves. I’d just be reiterating what he said since I agree with his points. As for my title and thumbnail, I’ll push back a bit here, too. The video wasn’t titled “Why Plinkett Was Wrong/Right About the Prequels”. I was seeing what aspects of the videos hold up in the modern day. There’s no argument a Plinkett hater could make today that they couldn’t make 10 years ago. My title would make no sense if I was just debating Plinkett’s criticisms. Sorry if you in particular felt mislead, but that’s the trouble with being concise in a short TH-cam video title. This is the modus operandi of my entire channel. Looking at what aspects hold up and feel modern and vice versa, not what’s necessarily good or bad. Regardless, thanks for taking the time to leave such detailed comments. Hope you find what you’re looking for. Cheers!
I watch them every couple years. They’re still hilarious and accurate. People who like the prequels are wrong. If you like them you have bad taste. It’s that simple. You can like them just do it knowing you like bad movies.
Some of the humor might not hold up. Not the dark humor parts, more so the toilet humor parts. (Just not my style) But the critique holds up completely. I think the shift in the public view of the prequels is mostly down to how mediocre the latest films have been. The only thing I enjoyed through them was Kylo Ren. Overall, the prequels are still mediocre at best and that people are looking at them through rose colored glasses. Note: I wrote this comment a minute into the video.
Episode 1 and 2 were hated as fuck. Episode 3 kinda saved them from not being complete shit, this had nothing to do with Mr. Plinkett review. I live in Brazil and this was a thing talked mouth to mouth (because internet wasn't such a huge thing in here) and everybody agreed on
I’m an OLD MAN (Gen X!) that grew up with the original trilogy. They were my favorite 3 films when I was like 5… While I hated The Phantom Menace (and never bothered to watch the following two films), I often wonder just how great ANY of the films actually were. Like I said, I was 5 when I enjoyed them. I don’t even want to revisit them at this point, especially after the re-edits. Star Wars is just a fond childhood memory, not unlike He-Man or the Thundercats. You loved it then, but you know it’s gonna be CRAP on rewatch!
Not to sound like a boomer, but most the arguments against plinket are "that's offensive". The late 2000s and early 2010s saw the profiliration of "the edgier the better" and Stoklasa filled that niche. Like everyone he grows and matures. Dont forget he came of age during the '90s, when edgy tv shows were king.
Kind of a sad legacy the Prequels left, they're only being remembered by memes that are made to make fun of their bad dialogue and by people deluding themselves to be good. Plinkett was and always will be right. Hell, the fact that its almost 12 years since the reviews came out and people like you still talk about them is a Testament to their legacy. I wouldn't be surprised if when Indiana Jones 5 came out, people on the internet that suddenly grew up with Crystal Skull start saying that its actually not that bad. And that it had lore and worldbuilding and a subreddit called r/Crystalskullmemes appears where people delude themselves that its good. Mid to poor video, you give way too much value to nostalgia.
No, their reviews dont hold up. They didnt even hold up when they came out because they are full off either subjective takes or just flat out incorrect statements.
Not really. That's exactly how everyone felt at the time. Star wars was literally dead. The games were bad, the clone wars show never clicked for me. It was just a bad time to be a fan. Even worse than now. So these vids weren't that far from what ppl thought at the time. I still love them and always have, but I am sick of prequel fans attacking the sequels. It gets to the point where it's not even about quality, just about race. So yeah, these reviews hold up, especially the part about Sam Jackson and how star wars always pushed for diversity.
The Plinkett reviews of the prequels make me think of my own OCD, and how I often have a very hard time making brief points. Ironically, Plinkett uses the quote "brevity is the soul of wit" in one of the videos. Still, it was really good to hear someone point out all those things that I had thought of as well, but never heard as an opinion from others. George Lucas didn't seem to "get" the original trilogy the way most of the audience did. Who ever thought Yoda would carry a lightsaber? That went against everything we thought of the character in Empire - and Lucas said that Yoda fighting with a lazer sword was one of the main things the audience is waiting for, whaaat? I think The Phantom Menace is WAY better than Clones and Sith. It has a "Flash Gordon" type adventure feel going on (main characters encounter different locations, cultures and creatures) with lots of real sets and props, and it's filmed on actual film. All these things change with the other two movies, which feel like video game cutscenes.
So you already mention in the first 5 minutes you still mostly agree with the reviews, everything else is just being angry at yesterday for not being tomorrow.
Yeah i mean the jokes about women and black people are in poor taste but also funny. Not mhch ooint really complaining about them as theyre sort of of the time. As for your point about oeiole enjoying them. The anewer to thst is Hollywood has massively lowered viewers expectations over the decades.
Not really. Making fun of black ppl kinda stopped in the 60s. But I'd rather have plinkett joke about black ppl than have some idiot TH-camrs like critical drinker rage at a black lead.
anomaly inc destroys plinkett and other clowns. I never argue with Star Wars "fans" I say fans loosely because watching the movies once in the 90's doesn't make you a fan.
No he didn't. You can't destroy the RLM reviews. They are too in depth. Anomaly Inc is just some obsessive prequel fans that can't get over the fact that ppl didn't like it. I just rewatched the RLM reviews and the criticisms still hold true. George Lucas tried to write a character study when he admits to not like writing characters. It's also cringe seeing George not even use his own lingo when talking about star wars. Watch the making of the prequels and it seems like George really doesn't know anything about star wars, he calls light sabers "Lazer swords"
I was born in 1971. The prequels are far more interesting to me. Sure, there's bad dialogue and acting, but that is true about the OT as well. Plinkett can eat me.
The whole Star Wars saga relies on nostalgia. It's just the originals had less competition than the prequels when released.
Honestly, yeah you are hitting the nail on the head. You can kind of see where a lot of ppl got their style from when doing video essays. These vids were so popular that they became rhe monolith on how to review something on youtube. Which was basically trashing a movie in a comedic way while trying to appear intelligent yet edgy. Its fostered a type of review stylr that can breed a lot of toxic fans, which is what happened. I remember in college if anyone would bring up the prequels, someone would say "watch the the plinkett reviews". This was actually really good
@@mania4270 Thank you for your comment and for sharing your perspective. If your last sentence is in reference to my video, I appreciate that!
@@doesitholdup totally. Keep it up. I think you were good at showing the time period of how things changed and some of that stuff was just cringe
18:23 How in the hell is that proto-incel? Shallow maybe(though that's by design), but its true that men in their early 20's just want to get laid, women have their sights aimed a little higher. If it was incel, Plinkett would have said something about how women only date chads
Mike was right and Mike is still right
Cogent, ty
You might not have noticed....but your brain did
Mike isn't a real person though, he (just like Jay) is just a character that Rich Evans plays
Mike who? Ehrmantraut?
No he wasn't.
You know what I find a little strange is I almost never see people describe their relationship with the SW prequels as a "guilty pleasure".
No guilt - just pleasure
No such thing as guilty pleasures in life
@@alih122mаstrubаtiоn
The answer is a resounding yes, to me.
what an idiot
Nadine is one of the best B plots of all time though
I think the politics of the prequels have shown themselves to be strangely precient.
I don't like how you undermine Mike's deadpan style by implying his more crass and satirical jokes have "proto-incel" energy. That implies a level of unintelligence I would scarcely ever put on them, myself. These guys are old enough to come from a very different train of thought, one that while outdated can't necessarily coexist with our own. The people who appreciate RLM the most are the sort to just take their humor for what it is and not personally.
Hes playing a racist character, being funny so making fun of ignorant people like racists. To me this is the embodiment of anti-racism.
Same goes with women haters etc.
Genuinely mate. You should 1000’s of subscribers. The quality of your content is great. Your channel will grow and grow and I wish you the best of luck.
Never thought I’d be watching a review of a review, but here I am. 🤔 Good job
Idk what’s more embarrassing - the fact that I made this video or the fact that nearly 2 thousand people have watched it.
But for real lol thanks for checking it out!
I'll give you an example of how misleading Redlettermedia can be:
In his review for the Phantom Menace, he claims that the opening scene contains awkward, boring political dialogue that goes on and on.
But at the beginning of the film, Obi wan and qui gon have a brief conversation about the force, not about politics.
Also, viceroy doesn't talk about politics; he talks about how to deal with the Jedi. In the opening scene of the Phantom Menace, the viceroy talks mainly about sending his troops to kill the Jedi, not boring political dialogue.
Yeah lol, people don't think critically and clap for Plinkett because he agrees with them
@@JihadiFemboy exactly. His reviews are entertaining and well made, but they're misleading and not well researched.
@@observerdude9809 Personally I disagree on the entertaining part but yeah. Also I have an analysis of TPM on my channel that also debunks Plinkett and I’m almost finished writing my analysis of AOTC (95% done)
I didn't realize how much of an impact Mr Plinkett reviews had on TH-cam video essays until I found Hbomberguy and ContraPoints content. Everything from the multi-part format, the dark humor, psychotic characters narrating the essays, even the voice was inspired from Mr Plinkett reviews.
The moralizing was such proto-incel energy that I quit the video.
Hell yeah brother me too
what you describe as mysogonistic is actually consistency. i think its fair to say that a guy who locks women in his basement and tortures them is quite mysogonistic. Thats the guy you watch the review of. It´s a satire. If you don´t like the humor, thats fine. Buit it doesn´t make the person a racist, mysogonistic or whatever. I am sure you are not aware of this, but the actual nazis (I know, I know, the "nazi" argument) at the time accepted satire of their own behaviour (as maniacial warmongers for example). I think we in free societies should at least rise to the level of the nazis regarding what is ok as satire, if not better surpass them.
Hey, thanks for the comment.
Not sure if you ended up watching the entire segment where I discussed Plinkett's misogyny, because I think it speaks for itself, but I'll try to clarify and summarize my main point.
I don't have any issue whatsoever with a character being sexist or misogynistic. If the joke is "look at how horrible this person is for being so sexist", there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
All I'm saying is that there are moments in these reviews where Mike Stoklasa, the writer/voice, is being *unironically* misogynistic. Places where it goes beyond "haha, isn't it silly how this guy is so horrible to women" and it just becomes shitty to women.
I cite specific examples where I feel this is the case. Whether you agree that those moments are a step too far is on you; I made the point as best as I could in the piece. But again, I have absolutely zero qualms with ironic/satirical misogyny or sexism, and I mention several points where I feel the videos get it right.
Lastly, you desperately need to find a better analogy than the Nazis, dog. That shit was wild. Cheers.
@@FionavanDahl Thanks for checking out the video! At first I thought you were the guy I replied to and I thought he had a slight change of heart. Oh well.
@@doesitholdup I did watched the whole video. If I critize your video, that should be a requirement 🙂 And again: Mr. Plinkett is the mysogynist in the video, you don´t hear anything from Mike. He is obviously in character all the time. Thats why I said, you can like or dislike this kind of satire, but your accusations were gone to far. Thats why I brought up the nazi example. I wouldn´t call it an analogy and it wasn´t meant as such (sorry, no native english speaker here). Take it as educational, I bet you knew nothing about it. It certainly whats to some extend educational for me on how I address satire.
@@doesitholdup not the white boy saying "dog"
Plinkets reviews = endlessly rewatchable comedy gold for Star Wars nerds. This review = cancer
I wish I could heart this twice
I was born in 1994, loved phantom menace when I first saw it, hated the second two when I first saw them, and as an adult, I can confirm mikes prediction. I just watched thru whole prequel trilogy and I could not have been more bored. I think his critiques are solid and they really are poorly written and just strange. Nothing wrong if you’re nostalgic for them, but that doesn’t make them good. I will say he is pretty opinionated tho.
Thank you for sharing your perspective and checking out the video. Cheers!
plinkett brainwashed you
@@sneed6288 .
@@jayclean5653 lol idiot
@@sneed6288 ironic
Happy 200 subs! Also nice video!
Thanks for checking out the video, and ty if that was you!!
Great analysis and honesty, this makes me appreciate RLM a bit more (even though you showed some pretty cringe stuff they did at one time or another). Despite the Mr. Plinkett character inspiring bad-faith copy cats who used a lot of the same devices to bait people into getting angry and hating the people that make the movies more than the movies themselves, RLM has yet to try to cash in on that trend. I don't watch much of their stuff nowadays but even when I do, I disagree with them a lot of their reviews. I think they are way too harsh on most of the big-budget movies but I still appreciate their analysis and they are still legitimately funny at times.
Glad you enjoyed the video! Cheers.
The answer to this question is yes. They're absolutely still relevant and amazingly concise.
Edit: Actually watching this through it has less to do with the prequel reviews and more of a commentary on Mike and his own views so in that sense the title and video are just clickbait. You could have ended the video at the 12:29 point instead of steering us through the mire of talking points and decade old quotes because it's completely irrelevant to the reviews even if Mike is the basis for Plinkett. It was always painfully obvious that Plinkett is a horrible person, the humor was in the fact that a guy who was so unapologetically so could also be sitting in his home recording a beautifully brilliant analysis and have objectively strong lessons to teach the average viewer.
I don't see anything here of note other than your whole "well I liked the movies and others of my generation do too so Mike is wrong" which congrats or something. There's a good amount of depth that was added to them through the focus Disney placed on Prequel era content as you mentioned yourself and the movies benefitted from The Clone Wars adding a level of gravitas to the characters and story that didn't exist previously. The prequels in a bubble are horrible.
Well said.
No they are not. And even before the clone wars the prequels were solid films
@@thewitcherking937 Don't bother arguing with idiots
Another idiot who uses "objective" to make a point. You are a clown
I don't have much of an issue with RLM - they're just another platform on the internet who made a series of videos expressing their nerdy dislike of a film trilogy with some hooker jokes thrown in for laughs. Only thing I can directly criticise them for is mispresenting the production process of the films.
What I DO have an issue with is the circlejerk of a fanbase they've cultivated. If anyone ever expressed an even remotely positive opinion of the prequels, they'd be absolutely buried in such a childish and intolerant manner. I've literally come across old Reddit posts where they referred to people who praised the prequels as no better than 'holocaust deniers' or '911 truthers" or just outright calling them 'mentally ill'.
Guys ... vindication by history is a thing you know? Art IS subjective in regards to the value we find in it. And the Plinkett reviews aren't the be all and end all of film criticism that people hold them up to be, where they apparently 'belong in a museum'.
I'd recommend Style is Substances critique of the TPM as a good for thought alternative analysis of the films, so as to break the circlejerk in a way that isn't just reactionary.
I have not seen those videos, but these seem to give a good impression.
I do think that calling the prequals bad is neccessery to appreciate the criticism. You could say that the visuals, while imperfect, were ahead of the time. You could say that the writing, while clunky, is smart when you look at it.
And I dont think some of the cirticisms land. For example, that scene where obi wan talks about the lightsaiber being super important: the fact that it contradicts the belifs of the jedy and contrasts the way the viewer saw the jedi in the original trillogy is sorta the point. The jedi are falling from grace, too invested in the politics, too arrogant about their continued existance.... If anything, these clips are praising the movie for subtly making a point against the jedi.
Or I can talk about how the lack of a single protagonist is not necesserely a bad thing and try listing some good movies which do that.
You need to watch some praise of the prequals which actually goes into the writing or talks about the production. There is a lot to appreciate with the prequals and i felt sad when you talked about how they are stupid fun for you and how you accepted that it is bad.
Thank you for the comment and for checking out the video! I may not agree with it all, but you definitely bring an interesting perspective. Cheers!
That said, I’d absolutely recommend you check out the reviews themselves. Anything I say in this video won’t do them justice and maybe in the full context some of the arguments may land better, they’re definitely explained in more detail than the short snippets I used.
Once again, thanks for taking a look and giving your perspective!
@@sutiko Thank you for adding so much insight and productive commentary to this discourse
If you didn't watch the source material, but instead based your ideas on clips from TH-cam.... congratulations, that seems to be the process used in most Hollywood productions now. They are worth watching though, even if you disagree with M Stoklasa, it's interesting to see the inspiration for a thousand channels, and how different people went in different directions with it. Also they are very funny.
@@sutiko Not funny. Didn't laugh
Do you mind if I make a review video of your review video of RLM''s review of RoTS?
Only if I can make a video reviewing your review of my review of a review
@@doesitholdup hahahaha, deal
Yoda said "war doesn't make one great" AFTER the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire while Obi Wan said "this sword is your life" BEFORE. The timeline is important here. The six movies are supposed to be watched in chronological order so this is not precisely a good example of Mike's criticism "being on point". It's rather an example of him ranting the movies were bad because he didn't liked them.
By the way, as George Lucas explained, the protagonist in the Phantom Menace is Padmé Amidala. Not surprising Mike didn't related though.
The prequels endured because of 3 factors - the OT propping them up from the start, The Sequels being a significant step down- a feat which many believed impossible - and because theres just enough actual good and also weird about the prequels they were saved by memes.
I would also say a partial backlash to RLM, brought out by a fairly underwhelming response to the ST
The clone wars series also help the prequels as well.
The prequel reviews are entertaining, but misleading and give inaccurate information
I agree.
@@adamogilvie8337the clone wars was even worse
The ST just allowed the prequel lovers to come out of the closet. But they already liked them before the dark times of Disney.
Plinkett reviews are entertaining (not really to me but hey, everyone has there own taste and preferences) but are extremely overrated. From what I've been told, they do an excellent job criticizing Star Trek (I'm not much of a Trekkie, but I'm starting to get into it). As for their reviews on Star Wars? Uh, not so much. Half of the time, they're just whinging about things without giving valid criticisms. It's so bad that other TH-cam channels like Rick Worley and Anomaly Inc can disprove most of their arguments since they bother to do their research and they wind up making asses out of themselves when they present evidence that proves to the contrary what Red Letter Media says. Hate to burst your bubbles but whinging isn't criticism. It's just whining for the sake of whining.
And before anyone says anything, I'm not a Red Letter Media hater. I'm indifferent towards them due to the fact that they make dumb points/criticism but they make valid points/criticisms as well. My biggest issue with them is that they act holier-than-thou behaving like they're know-it-alls than casual film goers and treat people who don't agree with them as unintelligent.
And before
Wild they stopped doing Plinkett reviews. I love them
The Prequels... I saw the original Mr Plinkett reviews when I was a child, and I loved them. Prequel hate was big at the time and I just kinda fell in. Re-watching them now with a jaundiced eye... the Prequels are not good overall, but they have three saving graces.
1) The highs. Sometimes in the prequels you'll get scenes where the quality (to me) just jumps up massively. Scenes like Darth Maul's 'talk' with Palpatine, The March of the Clones, Darth Plagueis the wise... these scenes do so much to elevate the films overall because they stick out from the usually wooden, uninteresting padding.
2) The worldbuilding. Say what you want about the execution, but most of what people love about later projects like the Clone Wars was laid down in the Prequels. Jedi culture, Republic politics, the Clones (and their Wars)... lots of scenes I used to hate like Valorum's deposition become nail-biting once the full context is known. It's not directly due to the movie being good, but it sure beats the Sequels being scared to say anything about anyone (New Republic? What's that?).
3) The action. Here is where I actually disagree with Plinkett. I loved the action in the prequels. Sure it lacks weight, but why would a massless lightsaber need that? Sure it seems choreographed, but these are space wizards who read the future to know the next move. The technical and stunt achievements of prequel lightsaber duels have only made them more impressive in my eyes, not less.
And the memes. Oh, the memes, they speak for themselves. The Prequels may not be good films, but oh boy were they great narratives. That, I think, is the x-factor that makes them popular.
I would say that his videos never held up in the first place, as a lot of his criticisms are things that are only really true if you don't pay attention to the films. (Examples: Anakin's turn to the dark side was rushed and nothing significant happened with him until Episode III, Anakin's relationship with Padmé is bad, Anakin's motive for turning evil was just a bad dream, Episode I has no main character, and the prequels had an overuse of CGI).
Technically episode I not having a main character is true bur not a negative thing. In the commentary of the phantom menace Lucas said he didn't want to have one main character so he just made the whole film just of be from the pov of the jedi.
@@videogamesworld01 He also says in the commentary that the main character is Padmé.
RLM is crap
True and true. Anakin was already one foot in the Dark Side after his mother's death in Episode II, the seeds of his downfall were sown before Episode III, his relationship with Padme was at most, adequate, and Anakin already expressed authoritarian tendencies before his fall. (ie. Anakin telling Padme that they should have one guy force everyone to follow the rules back on Naboo during their date.) So even if Padme didn't exist, Anakin would've sided with the Emperor anyways, since he agrees with the Emperor's politics, and the man is friendly to him while the Jedi Council is not.
As for central protagonists, Episode I followed Qui-Gon Jinn the whole way through; he's the senior Jedi of the pair that we follow through the story as Obi-Wan Kenobi's master. We see him on the Trade Federation ship, we follow him to Naboo where he picks up the Queen and Jar Jar, we follow him to Tatooine where he schemes to get Anakin free, we follow him to Coruscant and back to Naboo again. When he dies, there's a tragic musical piece that plays, which signifies the death of the hero, and the passing of the torch to Obi-Wan Kenobi. Qui-Gon is clearly the protagonist of the film, since it was his mission to help Padme and his insistence that Anakin be trained as a Jedi which kicks off the plot of the entire six-movie series of classic Star Wars.
@@HolyknightVader999 Not to mention that his inability to let go and possessiveness of attachments is hinted at multiple times in Phantom Menace. Anakin’s distrust of the Jedi starts in this film as well when they reject him and that starts a divide between Mace and Anakin especially. (Although I’d argue that their rivalry isn’t developed at all in Episode II, which I consider a shame.
To be fair as far as possible racism, was Mike just doubling down on the Plinkett schtick or was it a genuine belief he had? And, if it was a genuine belief he had, was it because he didn't know a lot of black geeks back in the day and saw a lot more of the macho aspects of black culture (and let's be fair, there's a lot of problematic stuff in black culture such as homophobia and misogyny; doesn't mean they haven't gotten a shit deal over the years or that they don't deserve respect and empathy) or did he just ignore the fact that there have always been black geeks? In other words, were his beliefs based on actual observation or just ignorance. Let me put it this way, I went to high school in the mid 90s, much like the RLM gang. I didn't notice a lot of black geeks back then. Some, but not an overwhelming majority. I barely heard any of them talk about Star Wars, if at all. Most of them talked about sports, a subject I had no interest in. Or bodybuilding. A subject I also had no interest in, If his comments as Plinkett were his own views, I get the feeling they were out of a place of ignorance rather than malice. Not to say that it was okay, but it is worth examining. At any rate, he seems to have grown past that viewpoint if he indeed did have it back then. I have too, as the black geek community seems to be a lot more visible now. Though I wonder if it's because it's not considered to be social suicide as much as it was back then. Like were black geeks just as numerous back then, but they hid it for fear of ostracization from both gatekeeping white assholes and fellow blacks who might see their hobbies as "lame?"? I honestly don't know.
Good retrospective overall. I'm glad that you understand that enjoyable doesn't always equal good. So many people seem to not get that.
Mike is still right, public perception shifted because Disney dropped the ball so hard on the sequels that they accidentally made the prequels look good in comparison.
I agree mostly. It's just people that were really young looking back on a movie they grew up with with rose colored glasses. Every generation has done that. That doesn't change the fact that they remain entirely mediocre. I'd say the Revenge of the Sith is the only one that rises above that mediocre threshold. I consider it an average movie.
Mike is wrong, I debunked him in my analysis of The Phantom Menace. It's on my channel if you want to read it.
@@jayclean5653 Attack Of The Clones is better than Empire Strikes Back and I debunked Mike in my analysis of The Phantom Menace. It's on my channel
@@JihadiFemboy LMAO. Attack of the Clones sucks ass, my guy. You could write a thesis about Clones and you will never change my mind on it. Also, stop liking your own comments.
@@jayclean5653 My account is glitched it does that on its own, I've deleted and reinstalled the app but it still does this. Go and read my analysis because you'd see just how wrong Mike is on TPM. Then you'd be happy to see my AOTC analysis once I release it (it's 95% done).
The idea that Mike Stoklasa, the man, is or was in any way racist or sexist is ridiculous. You know every thing he says is a joke, right?
People often mention the length of the prequel reviews, especially for episode III, but a part of the reviews are sketches that have nothing to do with the films themselves.
The sketches have more value than any of the "criticisms" in those videos
Who cares about the length?
I have the pause option available on TH-cam and can continue the watch on any other day.
My respect for Mike skyrocketed after @Troy Evitt Be excellent to eachother, and party on, dudes. that Tina fey rsnt was 100% Lad.
Which is funny because Mike is really basically a Liberal person. I'm a 54-year-old Liberal and I guess I'm at the point where I recognize that we need police-defunding them would be stupid because there are criminal scum that care nothing about their fellow human beings-but I'd also like to see US police conform to the Deescalation/Use-Of-Force Statistics of Canada, the UK and the EU. I think we have NO DUTY to marijuana-prohibition laws, but I also think child-rapists should be burned alive in town squares....that's not bad, is it?
Without the benefit of the Clone Wars / Rebels TV shows, which gave context and actual character development utterly missing from the films, would gen z really think as highly of the prequel films? Granted, totally get the nostalgia factor. I can respect that take. With the understanding that nostalgia does not make something "good".
Character development was missing in the films?
@@onemoreminute0543 Yes.
@@jayclean5653 Hard disagree with that. I found Clone Wars to just be supplementary material, and the context and character development to all be present in the films
@@onemoreminute0543 What's something about Darth Maul's backstory from the actual film? Or General Grievous? Or Count Dooku? Or Sheev Palpatine? Or young Obi-Wan? Or Qui-Gon? Like, they just exist. We don't learn anything about them. We don't get any motivations aside from "this is a good guy. this is a bad guy. action!"
And, don't get me wrong. The animated shows give us these answers. And they're great characters in those. But, on their own, the movies are a hot mess of bad dialogue, 2d characters, and sterile blue screen backgrounds.
The movies are flawed, but my favorite part by far was Anakin. I found some of his scenes very emotional, but I'm also very sensitive to characters crying/getting emotional in movies, so that could be why. There was a great story in there, but the execution could've been a lot better. But to be fair, the original movies aren't perfect either, but they are better.
I think the original plinket review voice is so annoying tbh 😭
Probably the most measured take in this whole comments section lol. Thanks for the comment.
You threaded a damn needle here, friend, and you did it *damn* well.
Appreciate the kind words, and thanks for checking out the video!
My issue with the prequels was the execution. I’ve never had an issue with the storyline, just the directors choices and the very very odd decision to target them directly at kids. “The rise of Vader” trilogy really didn’t need to be a kid friendly, fart joke ridden cartoon.
I like thinking about the prequel story, it was almost exactly how the story should have been told. If it had been shown through a more adult lens it would have improved immensely.
The thing that makes the sequels so much worse than the prequels is the exact opposite issue. The execution was almost flawless. It looks exactly as it should have looked. The storyline of the trilogy however was abysmal, to the point of abject failure. No clear arc from 7-9, nothing essentially happens, in 8 absolutely nothing happens, some characters even go so far as to redo their arc from 7.
The Phantom Menace only has one fart joke and one poop joke. Mr Plinkett's video on the movie has more than that in a shorter amount of time. I debunked Mr Plinkett in my analysis of The Phantom Menace so go and read it on my channel
I guess it's just the quality of current Star Wars is so low that people have to resort to nostalgia to enjoy Star Wars again. The original trilogy is too old and dated, still enjoyable but has that 70's feel to it while the Disney trilogy is too forgettable, rehashed and uninteresting. Of the new offerings from Disney, the Mando series I believe will get the nostalgia effect in the future.
Also clone wars gives more context. Love the prequel era, the films though are unwatchable.
Mike is trying to get you to see past your nostalgia and to the truth that the movies aren't good.
The Nerd Crew segments they did for a while was another great critique of the culture of fandomship and paid promotion on TH-cam.
Their humor has always been crass and generally overtly offensive, however, I have noticed that it's been toned down.
We generally see fewer Plinkett reviews and the newer ones we do see have far less of the dead wife jokes and are more targeted about these mega corporations that are running everything.
They seem to be very progressive but are critical of being progressive for the sake of being progressive - "passive progressive".
I think they still produce some of the best commentary on movies and shows.
The Best of the Worst gang reminds me of my roommates in college when we'd have bad movie night and just laugh about what we watched. Just better at exploring why it's bad.
Well said.
people who cashed in to prequel hate trend back in the day are partly the reason why we don't have the old EU anymore and why Disney owns the franchise instead of Lucas. they got what they wanted. former fans like me had no reason to keep following anything related to Disney's version of SW.
Who even cares about EU, other than diе hard fans
Yes. They do.
No they don't.
@@thewitcherking937 yes, they do
@@adamlouie1503 no they don't.
@@thewitcherking937 yes they do
@@adamlouie1503 no they don't.
I just don't understand this obsession with nostalgia that younger millennials seem to have. Nostalgia is an emotion is for old people that's meant to comfort them before they die. Nostalgia is when you're in your 50's and find your little league catcher's mitt in the attic. Nostalgia is not when you're 30 still enjoying a low quality commercial product that you enjoyed when you were a dumb kid.
I appreciate you interrogating RLM/Mike’s views that were cringe. I agree they’ve changed (didn’t Mike have a girlfriend who was in a lot of early RLM stuff and then disappeared around the time he got pretty anti-women?) but his prequel opinions are still spot on.
Thanks for checking out the video! I hope you enjoyed it half as much as you love rubber.
That said, I think you got your timeline backwards. Jessi stopped appearing in videos in 2015, and Mike and the crew were becoming less and less reactionary by that point as far as I can tell.
Kinda related, but there's a clip of her decrying "feminist bullshit" in Wheel of the Worst episode 1 (2013). Take that implication however you want. th-cam.com/video/JkWk_chVcJk/w-d-xo.html
Early in this video's production I had a segment exploring the other crew members but I cut it because the video goes way the fuck off the rails from its main topic enough already lol
Jessi also said "Why don't they slap me in the face with some more feminist bullshit" while they watched dance of birth.
@@doesitholdup Ah! Ok. I’ll admit that I was in and out on my RLM watching until I subscribed to them around 2020 so I probably watched a lot of their stuff out of order. I applaud your work in either being down from day one or going back and doing the research. The RLM-search? Never mind.
As someone who grew up with the originals and saw the prequels in my 20s and 30s.. I could see the complaints, however Revenge was one of my favs, just the starting battle over Core was epic. However I myself liked them, flawed yes..mostly the CGI
Don't worry. In six years you'll have said things and had takes that will be considered toxic or problematic and they will be used against you. As you said: language changes, times change.
Lol I'm sure you could find stuff from me from 10+ years ago that is significantly worse than anything I talk about in this video.
I see no reason to judge someone by their past actions. What matters is who they are today, and I think I make that point clear in the video.
@@doesitholdup You might not judge, but others do. You're white, you've got a lot to answer for.
Wow, did he really wrote that forum post? Damn, I guess we all have some skeletons in our closets. I always saw Mike as pretty progressive even in the early 2010's.
19:13, "it isn't a joke, it isn't delivered with any pretense of irony"-- uh, it's delivered via a character who's a hundred years old, had killed multiple (now ex-) wives, had a mother speak to him from beyond the grave about where to bury bodies-- I mean, that's the entire bit!! Does anyone want a pizzaroll?
If you watched the entire segment of the video and you feel that's not at all indicative of the writer's actual sentiments at the time, that's on you.
Shorthand for the prequel reverence is the derision for the poorly planned Disney sequel trilogy. At least George Lucas tried to tell a different story, even if the execution was stifled by his writing and direction.
It doesn't really surprise me Mike has had some toxic takes in the past. You can't expel dry crass humor like he can without having lived through being a cynical asshole. People change though and I'm sure Mike has as well as you lay out in this piece. Excellent video.
Thank you for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it. You’re absolutely spot on with your analysis as well.
Plus TH-cam was different back then. You can say things and do any subject without a problem.
your voice drains me of energy by the second and my voice is insanely better. and more fun.
Yes, yes it is
This video has shown me... I've never seen Fuck-Bot Denounces Daniel Tosh!
Lol RLM has an enormous backlog of silly skits and videos. Not exactly a hidden gem, but one of my favorite videos from them is when they discuss the intricacies of Darth Vader’s suit.
th-cam.com/video/FVzc20Bm8Xo/w-d-xo.html
Yes. I watch them yearly
Its easy to take shots at Red Letter Media now. But understand this- the fans kept Star Wars alive....LONG after 1983. We the fans kept the franchise alive for decades, just with comics and buying SW novels. Fans have been buying comics since the first film. We kept it alive, because George had said for many years he didn't want to do the rest of the trilogy. After about 10 years of living off living off the royalties, I guess he finally said wait I can make even MORE money if I give these Simps what they have been wanting. So you can imagine our disappointment, when we walked out of Phantom Menace, and it was a boring mess about a kid. The OT holds on its own. The Prequels cannot do this. So its easy to say, nostalgia was what made the fans angry, and its nostalgia that makes you like the Prequels. Personally, I find it hard to believe, that what we got was what GL had envisioned all along. The Prequels would have been more streamlined if we didn't meet Anakin as a little kid. The whole fast forward 10 years doesn't work in SW.
I’d say it was less money and more of proving the increasing numbers of doubters in the public who found out that Georgie Porgie wasn't the sole mind behind Star Wars wrong. That he could make a new trilogy just as good as the OT all by himself.
And when it failed to reach that standard, he threw in the towel and sold it off to Disney.
1) Actually, he did want to do the rest of the trilogy/story but was taking a break to wait for the technology to advance and to get his life back together after a divorce
2) Lucas was pretty satisfied with the vision he had for the prequels. It's just that in the space of over a decade, the fans expectations had changed and were arguably too big to appease.
3) It's funny, Lucas actually addressed the whole age of Anakin thing in a BTS book. He said how he definitely could have made Anakin older in TPM to appeal to a wider audience and commercialise it more, but it wasn't to the benefit of the story he was trying to tell.
It was important to show Anakin leaving his mother at such a young age in order to show his attachment issues long term. Those issues wouldn't have been as believable or practical in the story if he left his mother at , say, the same age Luke was in ANH
4) For as much as the fans talk about how much Lucas doesn't 'get' Star Wars and it's style, if anything I'd argue that it's the opposite way round lol. This is what tends to happen when the visions of the artist and nerds clash
@@onemoreminute0543 As I have said multiple times, SW fans are more passionate than any other fan base. I never said I didn't get the reason why Anakin was young, I just said I didn't agree with it. See, you all have the luxury of seeing the finished product. We had to wait 3 years for the next one. And then when it came out, it didn't make expectation? We tried to keep an open mind. But we left the theater with more questions, and not answers every time. Look, today its hard to keep spoilers off 4Chan or other sites. And I can appreciate the pressure of trying to make lightning in a bottle again. I tried to explain the problem from perspective, which you seem to ignore. As far as my opinion of the movies, its mostly unchanged. TPM is a boring movie. You don't have a protagonist and the movie suffers for it. Also the Jedi way doesn't work in reality, if you kidnap kids from birth, eventually they are going to hit puberty. What are you going to do, give them boner be gone medication? I know, its not supposed to make sense, just like Anakin is space Jesus. AOTC - seems choppy and erratic in tone at times. I have a feeling they went crazy in the editing room. Like Padme/Anakin interactions. Han/Leia were passive/aggressive because they liked each other.
I know Hayden had to work with what he was given. But I think it would have worked better if she wasn't relegated to his roommate, listening to him bitch about everything in his life, from the start. It just makes you sound like a woman, the opposite of attraction. Women need emotional variety, and are attracted to men whose feelings are unclear. There's no mystery where Anakin stands in her life. In reality, he would have been relegated to guy friend. Especially when she has to be saying, is this guy a borderline psycho all the time? But fuck it, she has to be some kind of codependent, because she looks the other way on him murdering a whole village. ROTS is the only one that seems to have a decent balance. If you think they are perfect, then fine. Enjoy your cookie. But understand that women are not here to keep the species going, they were put on the planet to punish the living shit out of weak men. They punish SIMPS like Anakin, that put her on a pedestal. I realize he led a sheltered life. But fuck it, its fiction.
As Red Letter Media stated, you should not have to read the novels, watch the cartoons, etc to understand the story. Yeah, it helps. But the Prequels were set up for someone else to fill in the blanks. And I am pretty sure I have alluded to that. I also stated that GL was totally fine with novels that expanded the story, and gave his blessing on this. The Thrawn trilogy is one of the best of that era. All I know is that there was plenty of reason for the disconnect. If nostalgia is what kept it alive, then nostalgia is also the reason why it can't change the formula.
@@leoda_lion4107 1) Yeah, I agree SW fans are crazy passionate and obsessive. That's why I often have to take a step away from the fanbase once in a while due to how nerdmanic it can be.
2) Well, I do also agree that observing and watching the films is easier when all the pieces are together. I can only imagine how head scratching some decisions would have seemed in 1999 which payed off narrative wise in 2002 and 2005.
3) TPM was never going to meet the fan expectations - not when people are camping outside in tents just to see the trailer for the film.
4) I was just providing insight into why the decision to make Anakin a child in TPM was undertaken. You don't have to agree with it but when it comes to critiquing media it is rewarding to ask the question of 'why?'
5) The protagonists of TPM are Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.
6) I do actually think that AOTC suffers from a pacing and some drawn out scenes, which is partly the result of them trying to cram so much into the film.
7) There's a case to be made for the interactions between Han and Leia in Empire being more questionable than those between Anakin and Padme in AOTC. Empire's romance follows the ambiguous consent trope where even though the woman constantly says no, the man still pushes because he knows what she 'really' wants. By contrast in AOTC, Anakin does respect Padmes boundaries when he's rebuked at the fireplace scene.
8) Wow, a woman who is attracted to a serial killing man with a sympathetic past who is also pretty good looking? I've never seen that before! (/s)
9) You've got some.... interesting opinions about the 'role' of women on planet earth
10) No, you shouldn't have to rely on supplementary material to make sense of the prequels. And you don't have to.
Keep in mind that I'm not some clapping seal. I do have many criticisms of both the PT and OT, but I do think for the most part they are pretty solid films.
@@leoda_lion4107 You are a clown. Watch anomaly inc and enjoy
I love mr plinkett
I grew up with the prequels and not only grew up to realize they're trash, but to realize the old Star Wars was trash too
I don't think I know anyone who thinks the prequels are ok
I don’t think the sequels are going to age well
They will. Last Jedi has so much in it to pull from in yrs to come. It's destined for having fans reevaluate it similar to Batman v Superman
No. They're quite humourous, but painfully shallow. The fact that they spawned the current state of Filmtube we have today is embarrassing imo.
I wouldn't go so far to call them Liberal or social or whatever but they've grown beyond it. They don't care about left wing or right wing, they just want to see good movies and call out bullshit. One of the things I like about them the most is that they rise above the political discourse.
And when they can't ignore it like with ms marvel they give a really nuanced take
They still suck, but the new movies makes them look better
They don't suck.
The misogyny I was most annoyed by from rlm was when they reviewed alien covenant, and Mike said “strong red haired women, you’re a dime a dozen. There’s nothing special about your Ripley” implying that strong red heads can’t be a normal hero, just a cool commodity from a sci fi horror movie he likes from the 70’s. It’s annoying cause its played like a legitimate criticism, when it’s just saying “yeah, woman hero cool, but let’s not have too many, cause then it’s not special.” You could say that’s not what he intended, but typically misogyny isn’t intentional.
20:06 That seems to be your read of it, he doesn't say that women are coniving monsters or men are innocent bystanders. He says that they are sometimes hard to read and that you need to be assertive. Same thing like your previous criticism, like you've never thought of just wanting to get laid in your 20's or you needed to be assertive to get a girl to pay attention to you. Yeah right...
Don't know where the hell did you get the underage girls part, the girls are clearly teasing him which comes back to bite them when they are captured by Plinkett.
Great vid. Thanks for doing it.
The prequels will always rank very low for me due to the wooden dialogue, adolescent humor, Jar Jar, overly used green screen, and bad CGI.
I only find ROTS remotely watchable but it's still plagued by the same issues. The horrible CGI/green screen of the entire Geonosis and Kashyeek battle scenes still makes me cringe hard.
Lucas was so lazy and lost he was using CGI for stormtroopers when they were only 2 of them in the scene - e.g. for the attempted assassination of Yoda sequence.
Why the hell would you not just build the tree hut set and use real performers in actual suits there? The only thing that should've been CG was Yoda. Everything else should've been practical instead of entirely CGI as it was. And there aren't any good excuses except being lazy and misguided as Lucas was for doing otherwise.
The prequels had some of the worst CGI I had ever seen in a big-budget movie even on first viewing it.
That trilogy is only looked fondly upon now by some due to nostalgia as you said. Not because they suddenly became good films.
They also may have gotten a boost due to the sequels which were even worse. In comparison, the prequels look better especially since they were the last SW films we got from George.
Thanks for checking out the video, glad you enjoyed it!
“MY-sogynistic humor”
No, they don't.
His review for the Phantom menace was well made and entertaining, but it was not well researched and was misleading in some respects
rlm is a pile of steaming hot crap
That episode with Gillian really rubbed me the wrong way too, i can't rewatch that episode either.
It’s brutal.
So, you mentioned two criticisms from Plinkett's review and just tell us to accept them as fact I have an issue with how you dismiss the fact that Plinkett is wrong about any of the Prequel criticisms said by Plinkett in his reviews. I've watched the entire of those sections and the conclusion and it doesn't seem like you did any debate or analysis on these criticisms to really evaluate them to see if they actually hold up, you just state them as facts, and I would've liked to have seen evidence and reasonings that backup these statements as well. Now let's address Phantom Menace supposedly not having a main character. In my mind the main character is Qui Gon Jin (With Padme Amidala being the secondary main character) because he makes decisions and actions that push the story forward, like when he mind tricks Boss Nass when letting them take the Gungan's form of transportation through the water. He is the one who feels that the Force is telling him that there's something special about Anakin, and he's the one who feels that Jar Jar's knowledge of things and acting as a navigator on Naboo for them would be a good idea. As it turns out this is wrong according to Lucas. (Phantom Menace commentary th-cam.com/users/shorts66k4KiyRXAI?feature=share) But even so it makes sense that Padme Amidala would be at least one of the main characters because the story in the end is centered around the blockade and invasion of her planet. She fights against the Senate to take action against the injustice and is in the end a fighter. She makes the decision to see Tattooine because she's likely curious about the planet since she's lived on Naboo for presumably her whole life and was recently brought into politics two years prior. She directly devises the plan to infiltrate the palace when it's under control of the trade federation as well. As for the shot and reverse shot criticism, everyone who even has a bit of knowledge of Lucas as a filmmaker would know that he typically likes to shoot his films in a very documentary/objective shot style. When he was in film school, he originally wanted to make documentary films and wanted to create stories using what he called tone poems, which are films that tell stories through tactics such as montage to create emotion. Now on a surface level I can understand someone thinking this is just poor filmmaking at first because it apparently is one of the most basic tactics out there to direct shots, however according to 'The Star Wars Archives 1999-2005' Lucas uses A camera and B camera (Shot and reverse shot) so that he can capture a performance from both sides and is able to use that performance to a greater effect. George Lucas's documentary style also makes it so there's not a lot of attention paid to certain characters because George Lucas wants you to see these films as a story that is actually being told. It's why there's a bunch of establishing shots/objective shots as well as why characters like Jar Jar can move almost entirely off-screen, because Lucas is trying to add an element of realism to the whole Saga. So, to wrap this up this video is more of a 'Does Plinkett as a character holdup?' or 'Has the Reception of the Prequels changed?' because you don't discuss or analyze these Prequel criticisms enough to make that the center of your video. (heavily implied by the thumbnail)
First off, thanks for checking out the video! Sorry if you found the title and thumbnail misleading, I suppose. I hope you enjoyed it enough regardless.
There are a couple of reasons why I didn't focus on Plinkett's actual criticisms too much relative to other topics. The main reason is because there have already been a million and one rebuttals of Plinkett's criticisms over the last decade. It's practically its own industrial complex. People have made it their whole lives to poke holes in these reviews. Just read through this comment section alone.
The other reason is because I don't think any of the rebuttals over the years have been particularly compelling, and I don't have a lot negative to say about Plinkett's criticisms. As I state in this video, I actually am on board with the overwhelming majority of his criticisms and thoughts as to why they are fundamentally flawed films. In your comment alone I honestly don't feel like there were any particularly compelling arguments against Plinkett's points, no offense intended.
I watched the reviews for this video without a particular agenda. I just took notes on the things that I thought were interesting and that's what the script became. My assessment of Plinkett's arguments is what I relayed in the video - I think they're, for the most part, sound, and that the countless reassesments of the Prequels are not.
@@doesitholdup if you dont find any of the rebuttals to plinketts criticism good then your just a fanboy
@@doesitholdup In that case I would say that your video title and thumbnail is misleading because you make it sound like you’re going to debate or find reasonings to support Plinkett’s criticisms and I would’ve been interested to hear all about that. So I must say that I’m disappointed to see that you’ve skipped over it. I could’ve gone into more depth about the protagonist criticism but I felt like I said enough so I didn’t expand further on it. I wouldn’t mind if you could propose more criticisms for me to address. State of Star Wars, Style is substance, Icy the Fire Mage, Hive’s Mind (Some of his arguments could be better but don’t discount his opinion because he’s a teen), A Fanboy’s rebuttal to RLM’s Phantom Menace Review 108 Pages, Tesco’s Phantom Menace Review (on Letterboxd), Just an observation, and more provide fairly decent responses/addresses to Plinkett’s criticisms and support of the films.
@@polpot1925 Or at least average with their arguments and debates. To be fair there aren’t a lot of proper videos or analyses that address the criticisms in the Plinkett reviews directly so I won’t blame him if he saw some responses that weren’t as properly done or had as good video quality as I’m personally seen. I’ll be one of the first people to tell you that the first two films especially can have big flaws with them (Maul getting a trace on the Naboo cruiser/Padme’s perspective of the romance in Episode II. You’ve also got criticisms such as the unclear logic of the plasma shield walls in the power generator room or Palpatine’s plan occurring very conveniently to the point of being somewhat convoluted in two areas regarding Episode II.
@@skywalkerorder2170 Sorry to disappoint you more, but again, I really don’t have much of an interest to debate Plinkett’s criticisms (or their rebuttals) a whole lot.
Also, you literally listed a bunch of people’s rebuttals to Plinkett. I’m sure you could find more lol. I’ve read a lot of them, and I think they’re all reaching. Maybe there would be cause to make a separate video breaking down all of these other people’s criticisms but 1. Stoklasa already did that essentially and 2. I think his reviews speak for themselves. I’d just be reiterating what he said since I agree with his points.
As for my title and thumbnail, I’ll push back a bit here, too. The video wasn’t titled “Why Plinkett Was Wrong/Right About the Prequels”. I was seeing what aspects of the videos hold up in the modern day. There’s no argument a Plinkett hater could make today that they couldn’t make 10 years ago. My title would make no sense if I was just debating Plinkett’s criticisms. Sorry if you in particular felt mislead, but that’s the trouble with being concise in a short TH-cam video title.
This is the modus operandi of my entire channel. Looking at what aspects hold up and feel modern and vice versa, not what’s necessarily good or bad.
Regardless, thanks for taking the time to leave such detailed comments. Hope you find what you’re looking for. Cheers!
I want you to tell me who the main character of Inland Empire was(an actual shit film).
I don’t watch the prequels but I’ll watch the shit out of Mr Plinkett.
Mr Plinkett is wrong tho lol. I debunked him in my analysis of The Phantom Menace
That says more about you than it does about your moron hero
Mail me if you want a pizza roll...
Yes.
Enough said.
I watch them every couple years. They’re still hilarious and accurate. People who like the prequels are wrong. If you like them you have bad taste. It’s that simple. You can like them just do it knowing you like bad movies.
"people who like the prequels are wrong"
And you're right? Isn't this what the folks call intellectual elitism?
Call it whatever you want. But yes, people who say the prequels are good are wrong. Go ahead and like them.
@@mnoir7257 Can you prove through the power of science that they are wrong? I'm shocked to hear that art is apparently objective.
It's starting to feel like you might be one of the people with bad taste.
No you're just behbg a pretentious Snob.
Some of the humor might not hold up. Not the dark humor parts, more so the toilet humor parts. (Just not my style) But the critique holds up completely. I think the shift in the public view of the prequels is mostly down to how mediocre the latest films have been. The only thing I enjoyed through them was Kylo Ren. Overall, the prequels are still mediocre at best and that people are looking at them through rose colored glasses.
Note: I wrote this comment a minute into the video.
The only reason people started to "enjoy" the prequels again is because the sequel trilogy was a gigantic misfire from disney
Episode 1 and 2 were hated as fuck. Episode 3 kinda saved them from not being complete shit, this had nothing to do with Mr. Plinkett review. I live in Brazil and this was a thing talked mouth to mouth (because internet wasn't such a huge thing in here) and everybody agreed on
I’m an OLD MAN (Gen X!) that grew up with the original trilogy. They were my favorite 3 films when I was like 5… While I hated The Phantom Menace (and never bothered to watch the following two films), I often wonder just how great ANY of the films actually were. Like I said, I was 5 when I enjoyed them. I don’t even want to revisit them at this point, especially after the re-edits. Star Wars is just a fond childhood memory, not unlike He-Man or the Thundercats. You loved it then, but you know it’s gonna be CRAP on rewatch!
Not to sound like a boomer, but most the arguments against plinket are "that's offensive". The late 2000s and early 2010s saw the profiliration of "the edgier the better" and Stoklasa filled that niche. Like everyone he grows and matures. Dont forget he came of age during the '90s, when edgy tv shows were king.
Will this review get reviewed in 10 years time? Probably not, so there's that.
*Reads the video title* I’d say no but that’s just me.
Kind of a sad legacy the Prequels left, they're only being remembered by memes that are made to make fun of their bad dialogue and by people deluding themselves to be good. Plinkett was and always will be right. Hell, the fact that its almost 12 years since the reviews came out and people like you still talk about them is a Testament to their legacy. I wouldn't be surprised if when Indiana Jones 5 came out, people on the internet that suddenly grew up with Crystal Skull start saying that its actually not that bad. And that it had lore and worldbuilding and a subreddit called r/Crystalskullmemes appears where people delude themselves that its good.
Mid to poor video, you give way too much value to nostalgia.
𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘮𝘰𝘴𝘮 ☹️
No, their reviews dont hold up. They didnt even hold up when they came out because they are full off either subjective takes or just flat out incorrect statements.
Not really. That's exactly how everyone felt at the time. Star wars was literally dead. The games were bad, the clone wars show never clicked for me. It was just a bad time to be a fan. Even worse than now. So these vids weren't that far from what ppl thought at the time. I still love them and always have, but I am sick of prequel fans attacking the sequels. It gets to the point where it's not even about quality, just about race. So yeah, these reviews hold up, especially the part about Sam Jackson and how star wars always pushed for diversity.
The Plinkett reviews of the prequels make me think of my own OCD, and how I often have a very hard time making brief points. Ironically, Plinkett uses the quote "brevity is the soul of wit" in one of the videos. Still, it was really good to hear someone point out all those things that I had thought of as well, but never heard as an opinion from others. George Lucas didn't seem to "get" the original trilogy the way most of the audience did. Who ever thought Yoda would carry a lightsaber? That went against everything we thought of the character in Empire - and Lucas said that Yoda fighting with a lazer sword was one of the main things the audience is waiting for, whaaat?
I think The Phantom Menace is WAY better than Clones and Sith. It has a "Flash Gordon" type adventure feel going on (main characters encounter different locations, cultures and creatures) with lots of real sets and props, and it's filmed on actual film. All these things change with the other two movies, which feel like video game cutscenes.
So you already mention in the first 5 minutes you still mostly agree with the reviews, everything else is just being angry at yesterday for not being tomorrow.
So the point of this video is to say people like the prequel movies? And that the humor isn't for everyone?
Dude pronounce misogyny correctly
Bro I straight up did not know I said it wrong all my life until people dunked on me for it in these comments.
Yeah i mean the jokes about women and black people are in poor taste but also funny. Not mhch ooint really complaining about them as theyre sort of of the time.
As for your point about oeiole enjoying them. The anewer to thst is Hollywood has massively lowered viewers expectations over the decades.
Not really. Making fun of black ppl kinda stopped in the 60s. But I'd rather have plinkett joke about black ppl than have some idiot TH-camrs like critical drinker rage at a black lead.
Yes, yes they do. Next question.
No. The Plinkett reviews are trash.
I said qui gon jinn is the main character of the phantom menace
Me RLM Fan! Me OT Fan! Me want simple story! Me want no politic! Me want no CGI! Me want puppet alien who don't blink!
Jordan Peterson is awesome
The 3rd movie wasn't bad.
A vocal group of twenty-somethings doesn’t represent a shift in public perception.
Ah yes, RedLetterMedia, my favorite group of twenty-somethings lol
Yes, prequels have flaws, but most of the critisims of them seem to be either just incorrect or matter of prefrence
anomaly inc destroys plinkett and other clowns. I never argue with Star Wars "fans" I say fans loosely because watching the movies once in the 90's doesn't make you a fan.
No he didn't. You can't destroy the RLM reviews. They are too in depth. Anomaly Inc is just some obsessive prequel fans that can't get over the fact that ppl didn't like it. I just rewatched the RLM reviews and the criticisms still hold true. George Lucas tried to write a character study when he admits to not like writing characters. It's also cringe seeing George not even use his own lingo when talking about star wars. Watch the making of the prequels and it seems like George really doesn't know anything about star wars, he calls light sabers "Lazer swords"
@@mania4270 blah blah blah. You are a clown🤡
@@mania4270 blah blah blah
All this proves is Gen Xers have better taste than their children
rlm is awful dude
y
You're awful if you actually idolize Walter White.
@@jeremyross9698 Don't know how you garnered that just based on the username but ok lol
@@onemoreminute0543 Because that's their username?
@@jeremyross9698 That's pretty weak evidence that they idolize the fictional character lol