Thanks for the GREAT instruction and your handy tips. I'm going to set my Yamaha 9.9 2-stroke timing today. Your video on 'Reed' valves helped me a lot. I upgraded it to a 15 HP Reed Assembly and made its performance much better. The video was fantastic. I even disassembled and cleaned the carb. Everything is working better ! Thank you !
Hey, thanks for all the great videos. I know it is very time consuming. I appreciate the time and effort. Best repair channel I have seen. Thanks again. Have a great day bud.
Its funny that you mention a sheared key in the flywheel, I bought an el cheapo motor over the winter. It had a terrible backfire and wouldn't you know it when I took off the flywheel the key was busted. Great video
just an add in, might b worth checking your arrow is for sure set at tdc. I'm not a know it all, I did have an issue one time where my market was like 3 degrees off of true tdc. your vids are the best. keep them coming. and would love to see you do the Reeves method. not anything on the net about it, no vids anyways
Yep, there is nothing worth than lining up a timing mark to a needle that isn't in the right position! A video on the Reeves method would be great I think. I'll have to get my hands on a suitable outboard one day.
Miles Klein, that is an excellent point and a great suggestion. How many people (myself included) go blindly thru life assuming that what we are told and what we are given (such as a timing mark on a pulley) is dead-on correctly lined up before we got our hands on it?
Dangar Marine hey quick question, what is the normal amount of leakage/dropping oil in the water after running it for a while? I have brand new Mercury 50hp and every time I come to the shore there is oil in the water not much but it's definitely noticeable. Is this normal or could there be something wrong in the engine?
I noticed you referred to an owners manual on the engine settings. I would like to see a caveat there. I own a 1971 Johnson 85hp that for years could not get to start easily. The manual had the breaker points gap .10 but after extensive forum posts saw someone insisting it should be double that at .20. Well, they were right. I no longer take any old manual at face value. I'm guessing the addition of CMC power packs changes everything from what the factory setting originally were?
Loving your videos! Keep em coming ;) I think that the video/filming/frametime does something funky when you filmed the flashing from the timingpistol, because I know in person (real life) it is easier to read the text on the flywheel :) Perhaps it would be a great idea to explain this for inexperienced viewers.
Though an older video... Great description of trigger motion relative to flywheel and timing result at ~ 5:00 into video Also at 6:15, a great comment regarding idle speed changing with timing, and that you may need to reset idle after getting timing set correctly; you can hear it in the video.
mate still wondering weather you found the problem,,i looked every were for the vid that shows the problem & i couldnt find it...please help....also your vids are the best,,,so easy to understand,so helpfull, just so bloody good!!!..please keep helping us,,,take care Brett
Stu, you are educating me wonderfully....Thanks. At 6.44 you talk about the "dash pot" plug a gap n my knowledge please what is it and what does it do......
Question 1998 force 75hp. 120 plus on cylinders had bad stator while is there I replaced timer base, rectifier all 3 cdm coils now I have no more adjustment on lever to timer base one more turn its coming disconnected. I made sure key way on fly isn't sheered but with timing light we will say timing pointer is at 6.00 o'clock the timing marks on flywheel are not there I moved left and right with light I found marks at around 9:00 o'clock is the new timer base bad fly wheel magnets in good shape. replaced stator because very low voltage wouldn't charge any help would be appreciated ps how do you test these cdm coils
Can the same (timing light) procedure be used to set INITIAL timing on an Evinrude V6 150 HP, 60 deg? Clymer shop manual omits use of timing light and instead explains mechanical setting, beginning with establishing TDC. Obviously, pointer setting needs to be corrected first, per the manual, but manual fails to offer use of timing light for initial setting at idle. Thanks again for all your great tutorials.
According to service manuals, some models of Johnson/Evinrude engines require a special analyzer ($250) to set timing. I'm guessing it sets timing statically. Do you know if there is a method to substitute for the analyzer or a way to set timing without it. Manuals discourage doing that, but not certain why a timing light couldn't be use, presuming engine runs.
Greetings from Finland and huge thanks for guiding me through the rebuilding process of my outboard with your awesome videos!! I have a small guestion. My 40hp 3-cyl 1989 yamaha runs fine for 15 seconds while idle and then it suddenly retards the timing 10 degrees and the engine stalls. This happens every time I start the engine, so any ideas what could be the problem?
It could be that the engine starts with the timing advanced as a start up / warm up program and then retards it once it is running for a period of time. If it is computer controlled then it might not be adjustable so look for a sheared flywheel key or maybe just another problem like a blocked carburettor.
Dangar Marine I just ran up a common problem that is commonly misdiagnosed.. outboard runs good on hose, put it in the lake and it won't start or is hard to start, then boggs down won't open up...I pulled off the lower ,and shined a torch up the shaft and the exhaust was closed by half with carbon ...cleaned it out and ran like a top...
Great info, do you have ore know how to get a service manual fore a 1980 15 hp 2 stroke yamaha? I cant find the richt one.. onley fore 1982 ant later.. 😅
Hello sir and good day, i love the videos you have, i lost spark and changed the trigger,( which was the problem) and threw off the timing. I have a manual and it it says 23 degrees BTDC. I don't know how to read this, any information is greatly appreciated. It wont let me add a photo of the timing cover, sorry, thanks
@@DangarMarine So with that logic, if you had the means of doing so you could skim the heads slightly to raise compression and run higher octane to squeeze out a few extra HP Great videos BTW I have been binge watching all your two stroke tuning and diagnostic vids
Thanks. My 60 hp evinrude bugs down went i go to take off is like no enaff rpms I rebuilt the carburetors clean all the holes they are all clean adj the floats level same problem replace all the hoses new plugs and wires new primer ball tank and hose I had the carburetors apart 4 times there are clean still same problem idles good don't plane off maybe is timing or bad staitor what you think my problem is.
Hi Dean, yes, a modern outboard will get a signal from a coil under the flywheel but that coil can't be moved at all, it is just a crank position sensor that tells the computer where in the cycle the crankshaft is and then the computer decides when to fire the spark based on RPM. It is a pre-programmed curve so there is nothing you can do to change it.
great videos stu . ive searched high and low but cannot find timing settings for my yamaha mariner 6E9 ML . would you happen to know the idol and advance timing for it plz ?
Outstanding vids. demystifying and simplifying. Been Binge watching for 2 days getting ready to drag the boat out of the weeds. Fully pumped with false confidence...Timing light always on just cylinder 1? Any way to check if someone has monkeyed with the timing belt? (3 cyl. 70 hp 1984 Evintude)
ah thanks, i was watching the video and when i heard the engine backfire i hoped you would adress the problem, i set my timing right on mine but it backfires up to a point where its frustrating when sailing.
My idle is down all the way yet it lunges hard into gear from a idle..It us revving idling to high in neutral and it even broke the crank key from putting it in gear..Is it safe to say someone has advanced the timing to far??? The guy I bought it from was into working on Harleys and I'm guessing he was messing with the timing to get more power.
G'day stu i have the yamie 20 2 stroke 1990 i think.. have been watching all your vids building my boat... mate ..when starting.. she fires up.. bing bing bing pop.bing bing bing pop.. have isolated.. top cylinder back firing.. i have done.everything... cleaned carbs.. coils.. sparks...set.carbies.. has improved but still back fires... top plug is wet bottom plug perfect.. bottom cylinder runs like a dream.. im baffled do i need to look at timing
I have a 1988 Mercury 15 Hp. I have all the idle timing done, thanks to you videos. Now it says I need to set the Wide Ope Throttle timing. What the best way to do that. Can I put the motor in a barrel to do this or do I need to be on the water. Just not sure if I can see the timing marks while bouncing on the water. I'm assuming the motor should be under load, or can the prop just free spin. Thanks for any advice
Good video Stu, did you change the battery in your timing light. you're last video showed good battery changing skills so just wondered. Haha Anyway we haven't left yet on our trip down south. got the trailer home and hooked up the water just to find my RV hot water heater blew out. so waiting on a out of state new one to come in next week. between the truck part and now this down a thousand bucks. Ouch! allot more than a battery in a clock. Oh Well, update didn't know about the direction on the induction clamp on the timing light? will have to check mine. what happens if it's on wrong?
Bummer about the hot water, oh well, I'm sure the trip will make it all worthwhile. I'm not sure what happens if you have it on backwards. The current will be induced in the opposite direction in the coil so I wonder if that means the light won't detect it at all.
If the timing light is 40 years old, then the design is probably even older. That still only makes it a 1970s design though. Although there are LED timing lights, until recently the LEDs were too weak to be used in daylight. However one I saw the other day has a night/day switch and 10W LEDs, so they probably have got to the point of being useful. Most of the timing lights out there now use a Xenon flash tube. The gun takes the battery voltage , puts into a simple oscillator (basically changes 12V DC to about 9V AC) and then via a few diodes and capacitors or more commonly in the older gear, a simple transformer - steps the voltage up to around 300v (older designs use 600v or so) and store it in a capacitor . That voltage is connected across the xenon tube which will not give off any light at this point. The 'reflector' behind the tube is also a 'trigger' plate/wire and is wired up, as the name suggests, to the trigger system. On older tubes the spark plug pick up is connected directly to the trigger plate which was found to be problem on Kettering ignition systems with low plug voltages ( some only generate 10-12Kv) at idle- the voltages from the sense wire just would not trigger the tube to fire reliably- but these units don't care which way around the plug lead clamp goes and on CDI and modern cars the low voltage issue does not happen. More modern timing lights use the negative swing of the spark plug lead voltage as a signal to activate some sort of electronic switch (SCR, DIAC, but these days more likely a FET) to dump a 70V spike onto the trigger plate, which causes the tube to fire . As soon as the tube fires, it uses all the stored energy in the capacitor in one hit, and once the voltage drops to about 50 volts, the tube turns off. The cycle repeats as long as you keep the trigger depressed.
Thanks for the videos! You've been a tremendous help with my 1985 Johnson 115 hp V4. I had some questions; you mentioned being on the water when setting WOT timing. Is WOT timing necessary when the idle timing looks good? Do you leave the boat on the trailer or tied to the dock? I'm imagining a buddy driving the boat while I set the timing! Also, can I utilize the fast idle lever on the control to set timing, or will I need to use the throttle? Thank you!
No idle (or pickup as Mercury calls it) is independent of wide open throttle because (on your v4) they are 2 seperate linkage adjustments. I strongly urge you to invest the $20 and buy a factory OMC service manual as it will walk you through it very easily. DO NOT advance the throttle cable on the bottom of the motor to set the idle, as it throws the whole thing out of whack. The full throttle timing is always done in the boat at max RPM, so no you cannot do that on the trailer and i doubt you have a test wheel. the good news is if the synch n link was done properly AS PER THE FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL, you should be ok if its running well. DO NOT touch the high speed timing screw without knowing were the timing is.
hey Dangars hey Stu, I have a question related to this video, you said if the ignition is adjusted right but there is backfiring then it is most probably a to lean running carbs. Sorry for my bad english. keep going I love you vids. br Ursus
I didn't show it, but I had cleaned these carburettors before I started. I think you are right about it being a lean condition but I think it might be from a different cause.
I tried to find the video you were talking about towards the end of this one on fixing if running lean. Can you please point me towards the link to that video?
I'm not sure I actually got around to doing a dedicated video on that but generally engines run lean when the carburettor jets are blocked so I would recommend doing a carburettor clean if you have the symptoms of running lean (white spark plug tips, lean sneeze, low power, stalling at idle etc)
I am looking to buy a test wheel for a 1994 evinrude 60hp evinrude but there's so many listings I am getting confused. The evinrude manual simply says to run the engine with the proper test wheel (and to not use a propeller). My model is E60TTLERV. I am hoping someone with more experience with Evinrude outboards can point me in the right direction.
I dont understand what u are looking at when the timing light is shining on the side of the motor..what are u looking at too determine timing..could u give me a link too video on this if u made one please?
Hi. But its backfiring after you set the timing to 6 AFTD. Strange, because this symptom indicates a late ignition. . Did you fix the backfiring on that motor ? I have old Suzuki DT100 and its backfiring on idle. i do not understand why . It set the timing to 6-7 AFTD on idle . I thought the problem on my suzuki the late ignition.
hello how are your videos very good, I learn a lot watching them, I would like to know if you could tell me the degrees of progress in ralenty and the degrees of rapid progress of a mercury 75 hp mod 2012 thank you and I would appreciate your help
Does Anyone no a decent Timing light that works for outboards Im still new to this so i dont want to go overboard with price just something in mid range thanks.
I might have it at the workshop somewhere but I got the PDF service manual for this outboard of tradebit.com for about $8 from memory. Highly recommend grabbing the full manual for your outboard if they have it.
You seem to know a lot about timing. Mine is a V6 Mercury 150. Which one is the #1 cylinder? Top left, or top right, looking from the side of the spark plugs?
Hi Stu, I have a 3m inflatable zodiac with a 20hp outboard (oversized I know but it's great fun). Unfortunately the transom has started to spilt (approx 1 inch length and depth) along the laminations of the ply where it joins the tube. Is there an easy temporary fix for this or is the transom knackered? Don't fancy loosing a new outboard to the depths. Thanks Matt
Hi Matt, the trick to repairing transoms like that is to make them stronger than they were before. If it broke when it was new it is only going to happen again. I'd need to see it to be sure, but I would recommend fixing it with epoxy and then adding a sheet of 5mm thick aluminium to the outside to give it some extra strength.
I am doing the transom on my boat at the moment. For a 20hp engine you want at least 12.5mm/ 1/2" thick ply if you use good outdoor ply . For a Zodiac transom you don't need a big piece, so use marine ply. Sand all the varnish/paint off the original transom, cut a copy from the marine ply and glue the copy over the old transom with epoxy. Make sure you work the epoxy into the crack, and use plenty of epoxy ( 1sq yd would be about 150mL / 1 cup of epoxy.) Clamp (no screws) the two bits together for a day or so , and just hard enough to squeeze some of the epoxy from the join (you need to leave most of the epoxy in the join area) . Once the epoxy sets you can paint the repaired transom in more epoxy (2 coats) and then paint the transom. You have to cover the epoxy with paint or something UV resistant, epoxy breaks down in UV. Zodiac transoms are always weak for the job they get asked to do- jumping waves and running up on the beach puts more strain on the transom than would normally be the case.
I have a 1985 mercury 50hp 4 cylinder outboard do you know the correct idle speed timing setting for my engine. I know the max timing its stamped on the engine. Thanks
I am subscribed and watch all of your videos. Very good work! And I need advice from someone who is experienced, like you. No one else seems to be able to help me. 1987 Evinrude 120 hp V4 2 stroke, won't idle. I've cleaned the carb twice. When trying to set the timing with the timing light , it appears that cylinders 2, 3, and 4 fire at about the right time. But , number 1 cylinder fires in all four positions on the flywheel. Seriously, I put a piece of tape on the flywheel at TDC , and 3 more pieces of tape around the flywheel at 90° intervals and with the timing light hooked onto the #1 plug wire , it fires at all four tape markers once in a while, causing it to backfire. What part or mechanism is it that tells the plug when to fire? Any ideas? It has CDI ignition, by the way.
Please Help. I have an 1989 Johnson 70HP rebuild by Coastline Marine in Florida. The rebuild cost $3180. (rebuild include: bore the 2 bottom cylinders to the next larger size piston. replace the top piston for cylinder 1, rebuild carbs, new thermostat). The guy told me to check the ignition and timing by a mechanic. I have called every marina in Boston area to have them check the timing for me but no one is willing to work on older motor so I have to check the ignition/timing myself. I have watched TH-cam videos bought 2 manuals to do the timing/ignition myself. When I check the TDC of the motor, new TDC mark that I've found is 2.5" to the RIGHT of the factory TDC relative to the pointer. Is this correct? If it is not, how can I correct it? TDC needs to be correct before I can continue forward. Thanks for your help.
hi dangar! huge fan of your work. nice video, love your content. i jave a question, if you happen to see this i would love to know your opinion on my issue. so i have a 60hp 2stroke yamaha. the other day i started it for the fisrt time after the winter. i "winteresed" it. and now it starts perfectly but when i get it going foward it goes but if i increase the throttle it starts to lose power and if i increase more the engine dies. i seams like it doesnt have power... i checked my propeller and it is perfet no issues there. thanks for reading and any help is welcome. (sorry for my bad english). keep the good work!
Dangar Marine thank you! the breather is open and the flowing is all correct. i canr figure what the problem is... (thanks for the help really "aprechiate")
Hmm, it is losing power because it is going lean as the throttle opens up so I'd say it may be that a carburettor clean is need then if it isn't any of the simple fuel problems.
Dangar Marine its possible, i am going to look on your videos on how to clean the carburator and if it is way to complex for me i will take it to a profession. thank you very much dangar! keep the good work. you are one of the few youtubers that actually reply to their fans! thanks again!
Hi Scotty, I like the unit a lot so far. I think in hindsight I would have saved the extra and gone with a unit with a built in display as it can take a while to connect to the phone some times.
I really hate to do this on your wonderful channel. But i am about to the end of my wits. I have hit that sad state of desperation and dispair. Your Channel has been a wonderful aid and learning tool But I have to beg and ask you for your help. So the project and learning experience is A 1992-1994 Force 40 2stroke single carb the serial and model numbers are so faded i cannot read them and Its for a home built boat project and I got the engine free off of craigslist. WIN, I think. lol. So before I go digging into her the first thing I did was check the timing under these conditions: engine on land in a trash can, filled with water, prop is on, using the starting motor to crank the engine over, full battery, I also have 2 other batteries that I swapped around for the test. . . (so full battery was guaranteed), Plugs removed, and plug wires grounded out. The Timing light is set on 0. My timing reads 0 in neutral with the carb Closed and 28 at WOT on the left hand side of the 0 TDC marking on the fly wheel (still not in gear). Those readings are at the Zero line on the timing sticker. My manual and other resources just tell me static timing should be at 32btdc. What ever that means and under what conditions, pleas help.
So the 32 BTDC means that the spark will fire 32 degrees before the piston reaches top dead centre. This video will help with a few of those concepts th-cam.com/video/5wbmaQXGf54/w-d-xo.html If the idle timing is specified to be at 0 (on top dead centre) then it sounds like it is spot on. I wouldn't worry about the WOT timing until you can get it out on the water under load. Is there a problem with how it is running?
Please I need help with a 1977 evinrude full throttle timing advance my sticker that has that information its going so I don't know what settings do I need 16* or 24* degree
Howdy mate, luv the vids you make! Have a question, I come across marineengine.com awhile back myself, but was put off over the postage cost.. are they still using Bongo for a postal service?
Hi mate, good question, I can't recall what service was used to send my parts. It's interesting about the cost because the bits I ordered crossed half the globe and I don't recall it being that pricey compared to the cost of the parts. It might be worth dropped them a line and seeing if they have a couple of options when it comes to postage.
Thank you for the replying, I did go have a look at the marineengine website again, they're using another international postal service now, with quite reasonable rates I must add. I needed to find a complete water pump kit for an older 80's 7.5hp Mercury outboard awhile back, I was looking at around $130 to send the water pump through that Bongo postal service to Australia and I dont recall it being express either. Now they're using another international postal service with good rates, Im quiet happy to recommend them to any1 needing parts
nahhh... if you adjusting the idle timing and still the same very periodic "dumps" than it's not fuel related.. (im keep guessing;) if the air fuel mixture is too lean at idle, it's sputters right in the exhaust outlet (like if would ignite too late)... that is very different sound, and doesn't make this harsh rpm drop and fluctuations i think the spark punch thru somewhere (cable, or the coil itself) OR if that previous person adjusted the timing, it's wise to check the air gap between stator plate and flywheel magnets i would check the 2 carbs just to make sure (syns of course), and would try the two cyl. alone (spark plug cross change etc..) !after! the carb's check
It will be interesting to see what we find as we look deeper into it. I normally find you can hear the crack when the cable or coil is arcing straight to ground, but I'm not ruling anything out at this stage.
thanks for stating other possible issues such as vacuum leaks ,mixture screw setting, and reed values. This is why I prefer 2 strokes.
After searching ignition timing for several hours I stumbled onto your channel. Working on outboards is new to me. You explain this very well. Thanks
Thanks for all your videos. Extraordinary to think i learn maintenance on my engines here in Norway from someone on the other side of the globe 😀
Glad to help. :)
More information than I got watching a hundred videos. Thank you
Man the starting noise takes me back. So many Sundays trying to make two strokes run right. Love this series of vids mate.
Must say, one of my pet hates is working on a motor that won't run at all and is pull start only. By the end of the day I'm buggered!
Another great video Stu. Setting timing is a mystery to most people. As always , you've explained this topic clearly and made it easy to understand!
Thanks Jack! :)
Thanks for the GREAT instruction and your handy tips. I'm going to set my Yamaha 9.9 2-stroke timing today. Your video on 'Reed' valves helped me a lot. I upgraded it to a 15 HP Reed Assembly and made its performance much better. The video was fantastic. I even disassembled and cleaned the carb. Everything is working better ! Thank you !
You're welcome, glad you've been making such good progress with your outboard. :)
Hey, thanks for all the great videos. I know it is very time consuming. I appreciate the time and effort. Best repair channel I have seen. Thanks again. Have a great day bud.
Ahhh...so thats how they work. My Dad used to use a timing light but I never quite understood the whole concept. Thanks mate
You're welcome Mark, glad the video shone a light on how hey work. ;)
You have a way of explaining things that just works! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Always struggled understanding how to use those bloody timing lights. Thanks that is really clear
You're welcome John, glad the video cleared it up for you. :)
Thank you so much. You are very gifted as a teacher. This helps so much.
You're welcome, glad you liked it.
Perfect * timing * that you've posted this now as I have to do this to our Merc soon.
Thanks for the great info Stu :)
Love what you've done there. ;) Good luck with the tune up!
Its funny that you mention a sheared key in the flywheel, I bought an el cheapo motor over the winter. It had a terrible backfire and wouldn't you know it when I took off the flywheel the key was busted. Great video
I was half expecting it to be the problem with this one if the timing was the cause.
Top class vid as always Stu. You make everything look so simple. Wish we had instructors like you when i was training on these.
Thanks mate!
just an add in, might b worth checking your arrow is for sure set at tdc. I'm not a know it all, I did have an issue one time where my market was like 3 degrees off of true tdc. your vids are the best. keep them coming. and would love to see you do the Reeves method. not anything on the net about it, no vids anyways
Yep, there is nothing worth than lining up a timing mark to a needle that isn't in the right position! A video on the Reeves method would be great I think. I'll have to get my hands on a suitable outboard one day.
Miles Klein, that is an excellent point and a great suggestion. How many people (myself included) go blindly thru life assuming that what we are told and what we are given (such as a timing mark on a pulley) is dead-on correctly lined up before we got our hands on it?
assassin savage I think he mentioned that at the end of the video..
Congratulations on the sponsorship. Great and instructive video btw.
Thanks mate!
Dangar Marine hey quick question, what is the normal amount of leakage/dropping oil in the water after running it for a while?
I have brand new Mercury 50hp and every time I come to the shore there is oil in the water not much but it's definitely noticeable.
Is this normal or could there be something wrong in the engine?
You are a genius! You are also a great teacher!
Thank you for teaching me you videos are wonderful
I noticed you referred to an owners manual on the engine settings. I would like to see a caveat there. I own a 1971 Johnson 85hp that for years could not get to start easily. The manual had the breaker points gap .10 but after extensive forum posts saw someone insisting it should be double that at .20. Well, they were right. I no longer take any old manual at face value. I'm guessing the addition of CMC power packs changes everything from what the factory setting originally were?
As always another excellent video. Thanks
Thank you for all your videos, very helpful!
Thumbs up. Man I am glad you got that dang clock fixed!
Thanks William.
Thanks I have learned a lot with your videos
Love your vids mate! :) Extremely helpful
Thanks Ash, glad you like them. :)
Loving your videos! Keep em coming ;) I think that the video/filming/frametime does something funky when you filmed the flashing from the timingpistol, because I know in person (real life) it is easier to read the text on the flywheel :) Perhaps it would be a great idea to explain this for inexperienced viewers.
Thanks mate, yes, it is much easier to see the reading clearly when you are looking at it directly.
Though an older video... Great description of trigger motion relative to flywheel and timing result at ~ 5:00 into video
Also at 6:15, a great comment regarding idle speed changing with timing, and that you may need to reset idle after getting timing set correctly; you can hear it in the video.
Danger....Thanks for the lesson on the timing light and how to on an outboard
Any time!
mate still wondering weather you found the problem,,i looked every were for the vid that shows the problem & i couldnt find it...please help....also your vids are the best,,,so easy to understand,so helpfull, just so bloody good!!!..please keep helping us,,,take care Brett
Stu, you are educating me wonderfully....Thanks. At 6.44 you talk about the "dash pot" plug a gap n my knowledge please what is it and what does it do......
Question 1998 force 75hp. 120 plus on cylinders had bad stator while is there I replaced timer base, rectifier all 3 cdm coils now I have no more adjustment on lever to timer base one more turn its coming disconnected. I made sure key way on fly isn't sheered but with timing light we will say timing pointer is at 6.00 o'clock the timing marks on flywheel are not there I moved left and right with light I found marks at around 9:00 o'clock is the new timer base bad fly wheel magnets in good shape. replaced stator because very low voltage wouldn't charge any help would be appreciated ps how do you test these cdm coils
Another very helpful clip for my project , cheers mate
You're welcome Andrew.
Excellent how to video. Thanks so much my Friend.
You're most welcome. :)
Good video Stu, if I can't time my engine now then I should give up....Thanks
Nice work Stu.
Thanks Will.
Can the same (timing light) procedure be used to set INITIAL timing on an Evinrude V6 150 HP, 60 deg? Clymer shop manual omits use of timing light and instead explains mechanical setting, beginning with establishing TDC. Obviously, pointer setting needs to be corrected first, per the manual, but manual fails to offer use of timing light for initial setting at idle. Thanks again for all your great tutorials.
According to service manuals, some models of Johnson/Evinrude engines require a special analyzer ($250) to set timing. I'm guessing it sets timing statically. Do you know if there is a method to substitute for the analyzer or a way to set timing without it. Manuals discourage doing that, but not certain why a timing light couldn't be use, presuming engine runs.
Excellent videos. Very informative. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Can you get WOT timing close enough by cranking the motor with the spark plugs out? Doing it on the water seems like it would be awkward.
Greetings from Finland and huge thanks for guiding me through the rebuilding process of my outboard with your awesome videos!! I have a small guestion. My 40hp 3-cyl 1989 yamaha runs fine for 15 seconds while idle and then it suddenly retards the timing 10 degrees and the engine stalls. This happens every time I start the engine, so any ideas what could be the problem?
It could be that the engine starts with the timing advanced as a start up / warm up program and then retards it once it is running for a period of time. If it is computer controlled then it might not be adjustable so look for a sheared flywheel key or maybe just another problem like a blocked carburettor.
Nice video, lean condition sounds like a leaky connector before the fuel pump
John
I'll go through it during the week and hopefully find the culprit.
To think that I never worked for outboard service shop
You're pretty slick on outboards.
Sounds like a little lean sneezing.
Thanks mate. Yes, this probably needed a carb sync too.
Dangar Marine I just ran up a common problem that is commonly misdiagnosed.. outboard runs good on hose, put it in the lake and it won't start or is hard to start, then boggs down won't open up...I pulled off the lower ,and shined a torch up the shaft and the exhaust was closed by half with carbon ...cleaned it out and ran like a top...
Usefull video! Thanks.👍
Great info, do you have ore know how to get a service manual fore a 1980 15 hp 2 stroke yamaha? I cant find the richt one.. onley fore 1982 ant later.. 😅
At the end of your video you said the timing needle can be calibrated, how do I go about calabrating that on a 91 60hp evinrude.
Your neighbours must love you
Hello sir and good day, i love the videos you have, i lost spark and changed the trigger,( which was the problem) and threw off the timing. I have a manual and it it says 23 degrees BTDC. I don't know how to read this, any information is greatly appreciated. It wont let me add a photo of the timing cover, sorry, thanks
Very helpful, thanks mate
this is awesome. Can you advance WOT timing a little bit if you're running high octane fuel for more perforamnce? eg 27'c BTDC instead of 25
I don't think so. Running higher octane fuel allows you to increase compression without causing preignition by my understanding.
@@DangarMarine So with that logic, if you had the means of doing so you could skim the heads slightly to raise compression and run higher octane to squeeze out a few extra HP
Great videos BTW I have been binge watching all your two stroke tuning and diagnostic vids
Thanks. My 60 hp evinrude bugs down went i go to take off is like no enaff rpms I rebuilt the carburetors clean all the holes they are all clean adj the floats level same problem replace all the hoses new plugs and wires new primer ball tank and hose I had the carburetors apart 4 times there are clean still same problem idles good don't plane off maybe is timing or bad staitor what you think my problem is.
Hi Stu, do some or more modern outboards look after timings automatically? If so what brand of or year did outboards start doing this?
Hi Dean, yes, a modern outboard will get a signal from a coil under the flywheel but that coil can't be moved at all, it is just a crank position sensor that tells the computer where in the cycle the crankshaft is and then the computer decides when to fire the spark based on RPM. It is a pre-programmed curve so there is nothing you can do to change it.
great videos stu .
ive searched high and low but cannot find timing settings for my yamaha mariner 6E9 ML .
would you happen to know the idol and advance timing for it plz ?
Outstanding vids. demystifying and simplifying. Been Binge watching for 2 days getting ready to drag the boat out of the weeds. Fully pumped with false confidence...Timing light always on just cylinder 1? Any way to check if someone has monkeyed with the timing belt? (3 cyl. 70 hp 1984 Evintude)
ah thanks, i was watching the video and when i heard the engine backfire i hoped you would adress the problem, i set my timing right on mine but it backfires up to a point where its frustrating when sailing.
Fingers crossed I'll get to the bottom of the backfiring problem during the week and get the video out next weekend.
Hi Stu can you do a vid on the wi fish sonar you put on your boat to see if they are worth buying thanks
I'll try to film a follow up video next time I go out for a fish, might have to wait for spring though!
My idle is down all the way yet it lunges hard into gear from a idle..It us revving idling to high in neutral and it even broke the crank key from putting it in gear..Is it safe to say someone has advanced the timing to far??? The guy I bought it from was into working on Harleys and I'm guessing he was messing with the timing to get more power.
G'day stu i have the yamie 20 2 stroke 1990 i think.. have been watching all your vids building my boat... mate ..when starting.. she fires up.. bing bing bing pop.bing bing bing pop.. have isolated.. top cylinder back firing.. i have done.everything... cleaned carbs.. coils.. sparks...set.carbies.. has improved but still back fires... top plug is wet bottom plug perfect.. bottom cylinder runs like a dream.. im baffled do i need to look at timing
Hi mate. This procedure might solve you problem. Sounds more like a lean sneeze than a backfire th-cam.com/video/NnotQmnKxKM/w-d-xo.html
no such thing as long and rambling - the more the better. 👍🏾
Thanks Tom!
I agree!
Will thermostat stop the water pumping thru like it should
Some motors are abit hard to see the marks so just put some white out on the flywheel timing marks to help
Question. 45 min. mark. What is the title of the video for setting timing? Thanks!
I have a 1988 Mercury 15 Hp. I have all the idle timing done, thanks to you videos. Now it says I need to set the Wide Ope Throttle timing. What the best way to do that. Can I put the motor in a barrel to do this or do I need to be on the water. Just not sure if I can see the timing marks while bouncing on the water. I'm assuming the motor should be under load, or can the prop just free spin.
Thanks for any advice
Thank you again.
You’re welcome. :)
Good video Stu, did you change the battery in your timing light. you're last video showed good battery changing skills so just wondered. Haha Anyway we haven't left yet on our trip down south. got the trailer home and hooked up the water just to find my RV hot water heater blew out. so waiting on a out of state new one to come in next week. between the truck part and now this down a thousand bucks. Ouch! allot more than a battery in a clock. Oh Well, update didn't know about the direction on the induction clamp on the timing light? will have to check mine. what happens if it's on wrong?
Bummer about the hot water, oh well, I'm sure the trip will make it all worthwhile. I'm not sure what happens if you have it on backwards. The current will be induced in the opposite direction in the coil so I wonder if that means the light won't detect it at all.
Then either mine doesn't have a direction or I'm just lucky. I bought this timing light 40 years ago.
If the timing light is 40 years old, then the design is probably even older. That still only makes it a 1970s design though.
Although there are LED timing lights, until recently the LEDs were too weak to be used in daylight. However one I saw the other day has a night/day switch and 10W LEDs, so they probably have got to the point of being useful.
Most of the timing lights out there now use a Xenon flash tube. The gun takes the battery voltage , puts into a simple oscillator (basically changes 12V DC to about 9V AC) and then via a few diodes and capacitors or more commonly in the older gear, a simple transformer - steps the voltage up to around 300v (older designs use 600v or so) and store it in a capacitor . That voltage is connected across the xenon tube which will not give off any light at this point. The 'reflector' behind the tube is also a 'trigger' plate/wire and is wired up, as the name suggests, to the trigger system. On older tubes the spark plug pick up is connected directly to the trigger plate which was found to be problem on Kettering ignition systems with low plug voltages ( some only generate 10-12Kv) at idle- the voltages from the sense wire just would not trigger the tube to fire reliably- but these units don't care which way around the plug lead clamp goes and on CDI and modern cars the low voltage issue does not happen. More modern timing lights use the negative swing of the spark plug lead voltage as a signal to activate some sort of electronic switch (SCR, DIAC, but these days more likely a FET) to dump a 70V spike onto the trigger plate, which causes the tube to fire . As soon as the tube fires, it uses all the stored energy in the capacitor in one hit, and once the voltage drops to about 50 volts, the tube turns off. The cycle repeats as long as you keep the trigger depressed.
Thanks for the videos! You've been a tremendous help with my 1985 Johnson 115 hp V4. I had some questions; you mentioned being on the water when setting WOT timing. Is WOT timing necessary when the idle timing looks good? Do you leave the boat on the trailer or tied to the dock? I'm imagining a buddy driving the boat while I set the timing! Also, can I utilize the fast idle lever on the control to set timing, or will I need to use the throttle? Thank you!
No idle (or pickup as Mercury calls it) is independent of wide open throttle because (on your v4) they are 2 seperate linkage adjustments. I strongly urge you to invest the $20 and buy a factory OMC service manual as it will walk you through it very easily. DO NOT advance the throttle cable on the bottom of the motor to set the idle, as it throws the whole thing out of whack. The full throttle timing is always done in the boat at max RPM, so no you cannot do that on the trailer and i doubt you have a test wheel. the good news is if the synch n link was done properly AS PER THE FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL, you should be ok if its running well. DO NOT touch the high speed timing screw without knowing were the timing is.
nice job !!
Thanks!
I like your job
Can timing cause one side of motor to flood and other half runs? Both have spark... help
hey Dangars hey Stu, I have a question related to this video, you said if the ignition is adjusted right but there is backfiring then it is most probably a to lean running carbs. Sorry for my bad english.
keep going I love you vids.
br Ursus
I didn't show it, but I had cleaned these carburettors before I started. I think you are right about it being a lean condition but I think it might be from a different cause.
I tried to find the video you were talking about towards the end of this one on fixing if running lean. Can you please point me towards the link to that video?
I'm not sure I actually got around to doing a dedicated video on that but generally engines run lean when the carburettor jets are blocked so I would recommend doing a carburettor clean if you have the symptoms of running lean (white spark plug tips, lean sneeze, low power, stalling at idle etc)
I am looking to buy a test wheel for a 1994 evinrude 60hp evinrude but there's so many listings I am getting confused. The evinrude manual simply says to run the engine with the proper test wheel (and to not use a propeller). My model is E60TTLERV. I am hoping someone with more experience with Evinrude outboards can point me in the right direction.
Can you put a link for the next vid please can not find it
Super keen to know if you fixed the 20 yammie Stu... mine jas same problem HELP
Search for the video I did on 2 stroke carburettor synchronisation. That solved the problem.
I dont understand what u are looking at when the timing light is shining on the side of the motor..what are u looking at too determine timing..could u give me a link too video on this if u made one please?
Dangar did you end up doing a video using the joe reeves WOT method as you stated it was on your too do list in one of your past timing videos 🍻
Did you do the lean problem on tje 20 yammie
Hi. But its backfiring after you set the timing to 6 AFTD. Strange, because this symptom indicates a late ignition. . Did you fix the backfiring on that motor ? I have old Suzuki DT100 and its backfiring on idle. i do not understand why . It set the timing to 6-7 AFTD on idle . I thought the problem on my suzuki the late ignition.
hello how are your videos very good, I learn a lot watching them, I would like to know if you could tell me the degrees of progress in ralenty and the degrees of rapid progress of a mercury 75 hp mod 2012 thank you and I would appreciate your help
Does Anyone no a decent Timing light that works for outboards Im still new to this so i dont want to go overboard with price just something in mid range thanks.
Love all your videos Stu.Would you have the Timing Specs for a yamaha 30hp cv by any chance?Tia.
I might have it at the workshop somewhere but I got the PDF service manual for this outboard of tradebit.com for about $8 from memory. Highly recommend grabbing the full manual for your outboard if they have it.
Thanks mate.
Agreed with the other guy... sounds more like a sneezing than a backfire. Carbs and reeds should be inspected.
Yeah, definitely a lean condition, just need to track down the cause now.
You seem to know a lot about timing. Mine is a V6 Mercury 150. Which one is the #1 cylinder? Top left, or top right, looking from the side of the spark plugs?
the cylinder closest/highest to the flywheel is #1, or on your motor thats top cylinder on the starboard side.
Hi Stu, I have a 3m inflatable zodiac with a 20hp outboard (oversized I know but it's great fun). Unfortunately the transom has started to spilt (approx 1 inch length and depth) along the laminations of the ply where it joins the tube. Is there an easy temporary fix for this or is the transom knackered? Don't fancy loosing a new outboard to the depths.
Thanks Matt
Hi Matt, the trick to repairing transoms like that is to make them stronger than they were before. If it broke when it was new it is only going to happen again. I'd need to see it to be sure, but I would recommend fixing it with epoxy and then adding a sheet of 5mm thick aluminium to the outside to give it some extra strength.
I am doing the transom on my boat at the moment.
For a 20hp engine you want at least 12.5mm/ 1/2" thick ply if you use good outdoor ply . For a Zodiac transom you don't need a big piece, so use marine ply. Sand all the varnish/paint off the original transom, cut a copy from the marine ply and glue the copy over the old transom with epoxy. Make sure you work the epoxy into the crack, and use plenty of epoxy ( 1sq yd would be about 150mL / 1 cup of epoxy.) Clamp (no screws) the two bits together for a day or so , and just hard enough to squeeze some of the epoxy from the join (you need to leave most of the epoxy in the join area) . Once the epoxy sets you can paint the repaired transom in more epoxy (2 coats) and then paint the transom. You have to cover the epoxy with paint or something UV resistant, epoxy breaks down in UV.
Zodiac transoms are always weak for the job they get asked to do- jumping waves and running up on the beach puts more strain on the transom than would normally be the case.
I have a 1985 mercury 50hp 4 cylinder outboard do you know the correct idle speed timing setting for my engine. I know the max timing its stamped on the engine. Thanks
As always, excellent. Thanks, dude.
I am subscribed and watch all of your videos. Very good work!
And I need advice from someone who is experienced, like you. No one else seems to be able to help me.
1987 Evinrude 120 hp V4 2 stroke, won't idle. I've cleaned the carb twice. When trying to set the timing with the timing light , it appears that cylinders 2, 3, and 4 fire at about the right time. But , number 1 cylinder fires in all four positions on the flywheel.
Seriously, I put a piece of tape on the flywheel at TDC , and 3 more pieces of tape around the flywheel at 90° intervals and with the timing light hooked onto the #1 plug wire , it fires at all four tape markers once in a while, causing it to backfire.
What part or mechanism is it that tells the plug when to fire? Any ideas?
It has CDI ignition, by the way.
It could be a bad CDI unit. Recording all four sparks on an oscilloscope would confirm this.
@@DangarMarine thanks. I'll try that. I appreciate your help.
You should be factory sponsored Yamaha, you listening?
Please Help. I have an 1989 Johnson 70HP rebuild by Coastline Marine in Florida. The rebuild cost $3180. (rebuild include: bore the 2 bottom cylinders to the next larger size piston. replace the top piston for cylinder 1, rebuild carbs, new thermostat). The guy told me to check the ignition and timing by a mechanic. I have called every marina in Boston area to have them check the timing for me but no one is willing to work on older motor so I have to check the ignition/timing myself. I have watched TH-cam videos bought 2 manuals to do the timing/ignition myself. When I check the TDC of the motor, new TDC mark that I've found is 2.5" to the RIGHT of the factory TDC relative to the pointer. Is this correct? If it is not, how can I correct it? TDC needs to be correct before I can continue forward. Thanks for your help.
Hi, just a question for timing ligth, its the ligth works on 2 stroke & 4 stroke?
Yep, works with both.
thanks.
I got confused because I saw a 2 & 4 stroke timing ligths.
regards from mexico west coast
Would bad timing adjustment cause high idle? 2004 mercury 40hp 2 stroke 3 cylinder
Yes, it can.
Easy thanks to you
hi dangar! huge fan of your work. nice video, love your content. i jave a question, if you happen to see this i would love to know your opinion on my issue. so i have a 60hp 2stroke yamaha. the other day i started it for the fisrt time after the winter. i "winteresed" it. and now it starts perfectly but when i get it going foward it goes but if i increase the throttle it starts to lose power and if i increase more the engine dies. i seams like it doesnt have power... i checked my propeller and it is perfet no issues there. thanks for reading and any help is welcome. (sorry for my bad english). keep the good work!
Hi Miguel, it sounds like a fuel supply issue. I'd be checking the breather is open on the fuel tank and it is all flowing correctly.
Dangar Marine thank you! the breather is open and the flowing is all correct. i canr figure what the problem is... (thanks for the help really "aprechiate")
Hmm, it is losing power because it is going lean as the throttle opens up so I'd say it may be that a carburettor clean is need then if it isn't any of the simple fuel problems.
Dangar Marine its possible, i am going to look on your videos on how to clean the carburator and if it is way to complex for me i will take it to a profession. thank you very much dangar! keep the good work. you are one of the few youtubers that actually reply to their fans! thanks again!
Good luck with it, let me know how you get on.
Hey Stu, my question isn't related to the video but how do you like the Raymarine Wi-Fish? Anything you don't like about the unit?
Hi Scotty, I like the unit a lot so far. I think in hindsight I would have saved the extra and gone with a unit with a built in display as it can take a while to connect to the phone some times.
Dangar Marine
Thank you Stu, I'm sure I wouldn't mind the connect delay.
Thank you again for your brief review
-Jack
DO YOU HAVE ANY VIDEO WITH A 50HP MERCURY 2 STROKE MOTOR THAT WANT SAY ANYTHING WITH A BATTERY SWITCH CONNECTIONS ON IT .
I really hate to do this on your wonderful channel. But i am about to the end of my wits. I have hit that sad state of desperation and dispair. Your Channel has been a wonderful aid and learning tool But I have to beg and ask you for your help.
So the project and learning experience is A 1992-1994 Force 40 2stroke single carb the serial and model numbers are so faded i cannot read them and Its for a home built boat project and I got the engine free off of craigslist. WIN, I think. lol. So before I go digging into her the first thing I did was check the timing under these conditions: engine on land in a trash can, filled with water, prop is on, using the starting motor to crank the engine over, full battery, I also have 2 other batteries that I swapped around for the test. . . (so full battery was guaranteed), Plugs removed, and plug wires grounded out. The Timing light is set on 0. My timing reads 0 in neutral with the carb Closed and 28 at WOT on the left hand side of the 0 TDC marking on the fly wheel (still not in gear). Those readings are at the Zero line on the timing sticker. My manual and other resources just tell me static timing should be at 32btdc. What ever that means and under what conditions, pleas help.
So the 32 BTDC means that the spark will fire 32 degrees before the piston reaches top dead centre. This video will help with a few of those concepts th-cam.com/video/5wbmaQXGf54/w-d-xo.html If the idle timing is specified to be at 0 (on top dead centre) then it sounds like it is spot on. I wouldn't worry about the WOT timing until you can get it out on the water under load. Is there a problem with how it is running?
Please I need help with a 1977 evinrude full throttle timing advance my sticker that has that information its going so I don't know what settings do I need 16* or 24* degree
Not sure what the setting should be, try to track down a PDF copy of the service manual online.
I tried but I can't find it
115799s that's the model #
Howdy mate, luv the vids you make! Have a question, I come across marineengine.com awhile back myself, but was put off over the postage cost.. are they still using Bongo for a postal service?
Hi mate, good question, I can't recall what service was used to send my parts. It's interesting about the cost because the bits I ordered crossed half the globe and I don't recall it being that pricey compared to the cost of the parts. It might be worth dropped them a line and seeing if they have a couple of options when it comes to postage.
Thank you for the replying, I did go have a look at the marineengine website again, they're using another international postal service now, with quite reasonable rates I must add. I needed to find a complete water pump kit for an older 80's 7.5hp Mercury outboard awhile back, I was looking at around $130 to send the water pump through that Bongo postal service to Australia and I dont recall it being express either. Now they're using another international postal service with good rates, Im quiet happy to recommend them to any1 needing parts
Muito bom!
Você é o Mestre!
Gostei!
Thanks a great job
Glad you liked it!
nahhh... if you adjusting the idle timing and still the same very periodic "dumps" than it's not fuel related.. (im keep guessing;)
if the air fuel mixture is too lean at idle, it's sputters right in the exhaust outlet (like if would ignite too late)... that is very different sound, and doesn't make this harsh rpm drop and fluctuations
i think the spark punch thru somewhere (cable, or the coil itself) OR if that previous person adjusted the timing, it's wise to check the air gap between stator plate and flywheel magnets
i would check the 2 carbs just to make sure (syns of course), and would try the two cyl. alone (spark plug cross change etc..) !after! the carb's check
It will be interesting to see what we find as we look deeper into it. I normally find you can hear the crack when the cable or coil is arcing straight to ground, but I'm not ruling anything out at this stage.
what about the kill switch?? have you tryed to disconnect it? i know it's coupled ,but... you never know;)
Yes, the kill switch has been replaced. The one in the recent kill switch video was the one from this outboard.