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Outboard reed valves
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2017
- In this video I take the reed valves out of the Yamaha 20HP 2-stroke to see if they are damaged and causing a lean condition.
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These videos make me a better mechanic. I really appreciate the extra detail you go into. The theory of how these engines work makes diagnostics so much easier. Thanks again for what you do.
You're welcome Michael, glad the vids are helping you.
This was absolutely the best description of how a 2 stroke outboard works that i have ever seen. AWESOME!!!!
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@@@atr 1
that is , without a doubt, the most perfect description of reed valves I've ever heard and saw demonstrated . Love your videos
great super shortcut video to learn reed valves!!! all 2 stroke engine owners should watch and learn !(moto cross , outboard etc )
Thanks mate!
Excellent explanation on reed valves Stu. Thanks so much. The more I look at my engine the more jobs I discover I may have to do! The joys....
Thanks John, good luck with your motor!
You're an excellent mechanic. Thank you for doing these videos
Loved this video, as it mirrors so many of my experiences of working with outboards. You find one problem, think you've fixed it and then have to start again. Keep up the good work.
Thanks mate. Yes, just because you've found "a problem" doesn't mean you've found "the problem"!
My 175hp 2 stroke Johnson has been giving me a hard start and spitting fuel through the carb......its been a pain trying to fix it but watching and listening to your video gave me hope, you've pin point my problem spot on.
Thanks for another great tutorial.
This guy has saved me sooooooooooooooo much money. If I've got trouble with my 20 hp Yamaha
I just go through the vids on this channel, I would be broke otherwise. cheers man, love the channel!
Great to hear!
Since unfortunately myself and a lot of other people are out of work right now I had time to work on my outboard and I'm glad I watched your video's because after pulling the reeds which seemed fine i focused on the carburetors and it was the idle mixture screw on my bottom carburetor out of adjustment,mad it backfire so bad it would stall.
Im actually happy that wasn't the fix. It means more vids to watch and learn. You are the only sub I have that I am actually waiting for my phones notification for your new vid. I usually get them early in the morning(4-6 am) and watch them as my day is just getting started. Thanks Stu!!
Thanks mate, glad to hear you've been enjoying the vids, particularly that early in the morning!
I've had a pretty bad day today. But it sure is nice to sit and watch and listen to you describe stuff I like to learn. Its relaxing. Thank you for making these videos sir.
Thanks mate, sorry to hear you had a bad day but glad to hear the vids are helping. :)
You are so good at making videos, it's honestly refreshing. Thank you again for another excellent explanation.
Thanks Sean, glad you enjoyed it.
After working on motorcycle and boat carbs for the last ten years or so I advocate to all my friends and family how important it is to keep your fuel and carbs clean. People have no idea how small the holes are in the jets and galleries and it doesn't take much at all to clog them. Great video as always.
For sure. The fuel we buy from water-front marinas certainly doesn't help either.
Great video again, love your drawing of the reet valves, Learning a lot evry week. Keep up the good work. Big fan from the Netherlands!
Thanks Dennis! :)
Great video on 2 stroke operation! Great sense of humor as said below "Almost 100% not better" I've just come into a Evinrude V4 120. I've watched most of the Evinrude 150 videos you did which will help with this motor.
you make the best videos ...in glad that I found your channel ....been following for a few weeks now .....I'm in the middle of re ringing a 1987 120hp evinrude ...and your videos are so detailed....love that you make it so easy to understand ....thanks
Hey mate, glad you have joined us and are enjoying the vids. Good luck with your Evinrude rebuild. :)
stu id like to thank you for your videos the way you describe , explain , demonstrate everything is just so ... confidence inspiring i can't tell you or thank you enough i recently decided after binge watching many of your videos to change my reeds on my 90 evinrude 60 hp and as you've stated many times it was easy and i owe you for helping me do it with confidence again thank you for your time and your videos keep up the terrific videos
Thanks Chris, glad the vids have been helping you. :)
Great video Stu..look forward to the diagnosis next week. On another note... thanks for your advice on the underfloor tank situation..my mate is binning it as we can still smell fuel ....He decided to build a rear lounge and purchase two 25 litre plastics to go underneath...I was supportive of this !
Thanks mate. Sounds like he is taking a good route with his fuel tanks, I don't think he'll regret the change.
Awesome videos, i no longer have a boat but you are very informative and do a great job explaining! Thank you for your time creating the videos!
You're welcome mate, glad you've been enjoying them. :)
Ace video as usual Stew. I have a small repair shop and really value the info you share. Picked up some great pointers from you mate. Thanks a million for the time and effort you put into this. If you ever make a video compilation I will gladly purchase from you. Well worth whatever you charge.
Thanks mate, glad the videos have been helping you. Good luck with your shop, I know exactly how hard it can be to keep a small shop open and profitable.
Thanks Stu,
That old Yammy I got was running way worse than that one you have there, when I got it.
Turned out to be a broken primary wire on No.1 coil pack. I am holding my breath in anticipation. Love your work mate, keep it up. Greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
Hey Bruce. I'm thinking I'll test the ignition first, mostly as I think it will be easier and doesn't involve taking the powerhead off. Fingers crossed that is all there is to it.
Looking forward to that Stu, as they say, do the easy stuff first as 90% of the time that is where the problem is. But this one has got me scratching my head too. Roll on next weekend!
By the way it was your videos on checking the IGN circuits that led me find the problem on mine.
Man I’ve been watching your videos for years , shoot you’ve even talked me through on a little TH-cam comment and helped me get my Yamaha 90 running! Man let me work as an apprentice with you lol
Very interesting and informative video. I'm learning a lot from you. Thank you for explaining everything.
You're welcome Martin. :)
This video kicks ass. Great video man!!!
wow. great way to explain how 2 strokes work. I never fully understand until this moment
Glad the video helped. :)
Thanks Stu, I'm familiar with reed valves in bikes but not outboards. Nice to see there isn't much difference at all.
Hey Ron, yeah, it's pretty much the same for all two stroke motors. It is nice to know that once you figure one out you are good to go for all the others.
Yes I got two almost new reed blocks for my 96 force 120. I can’t see any day light through them, also replaced the gasket ,it made a world of difference, snappy throttle response easy starting, The service manager said there is 8000s of a gap that tolerated on the force 120 but I beg to differ, like you said there should be no daylight looking through the read blocks, thanks for the great advice and videos keep them coming
Thanks Tim, great to hear your outboard is running sweetly now. :)
You just need a new engine anything pre 2000 is a right off.
what a great channel I've learned so much from you and you show it in a really understandable manor thank you for sharing keep up the great stuff!
Thanks Chris, glad the vids have been helping you. :)
Aw mate I love the ammo box panniers on the bike. I did the same on my Yamaha. There’s always something interesting on the background 👍
whoa! dude! mind blown with your chalkboard demonstration. Thanks heaps!
Thanks mate, glad you liked it. :)
Great video. The drawing on the board really helped.
I dangar a few days a go a asked you about my yamaha 60HP 2 stroke problem, it was losing power, I changed spark parts(I dont know the name of the part in english) and it solved the problem! keep the good work mate!
Nice work, glad it turned out to be something simple. :)
Dangar Marine yah, me too!
Excellent video and description. I'm chasing down a problem on my old Suzuki DT200 and removed the oil injection system and moved to pre-mix. It got me to wondering how exactly the crankcase and internals get lubricated. Your drawing helped me understand that. Cheers!
Hi Stu, easy fix on hot water heater. just needed the winterizing valve turned to let the air trapped in the top of the tank out. got hot water now for the rest of the trip.
Good news! :)
Thanks for the great video,I have a Mercury Force 90hp which I just got running near perfect after cleaning the carbs,new plugs and setting the timing.All of the sudden it now sounds like your Yamaha and is really hard to start,I guess i'll start with the reed valves and go from there.
Fantastic, I love this series ! I think I know what the problem is, cannot wait to see this thru! good stuff! kodi
Thanks mate, we'll see soon enough. We should have a vote. ;)
Mate @ 9:02 i thought u were gonna keep rolling straight down into the lake for a water test! spot on vids!
No one chipped you about the timing light, because we all thought you knew what you were talking about. We are in your hands. Good work. 100% not better must mean its almost fixed.
I don't always explain it the best though! ;)
Is becoming very interesting, I'll be waiting for the next video.
Hopefully it will be at least diagnosed by the next video, even if it means waiting for parts.
Absolutely brilliant.. Super helpful and easy to understand
Glad it was helpful!
My 97 yammie 40 ran great until recently. Last few trips out I've had a large loss in hp and speed has gone from 30mph to 20 mph. New plugs, new fuel pump. Clean fuel, new filter and water separator, compression just over 100 each cylinder. I'm hoping it's just the reed valves. Great video as always. Keep em coming. Mike from Florida.
Was it reeds
@@hiimtoxic9518 Nope. Took it out today after completing a full rebuild in all 3 carbs and it ran like a brand new motor. Everything was clogged. The jets, the needle seat in one carb was so bad you couldn't see light through. All the small ports were clogged. It was bad.
I just found a bad reed thanks to this guy. Found a leak during a cylinder leakdown test; verified a bad reed with a flashlight.
This was top notch info as usual on this channel thanks ✅
Never had to replace reeds on a two stroke. Yet. Lol. I look forward to the next video. I'm sure your going to figure it out Stu!
I've never had to replace a set yet either which is why I don't often suspect them. I'm not sure what it would take for them to fail, even in these old saltwater motors they always seem fine.
All your stuff is great! thanks!
Thanks man I'll have to remember that
Always interesting.Thanks.
Sorry it didn't work out but if it's any consolation I've been boating for about 40 years now and never really understood how reed valves worked...until now...so thanks Stu!
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed the vid. :)
hi never worked on an outboard but have used several of your very well described techniques for cleaning, adjusting electrics and carburation on motor bikes. one adjustment i would check was the carb float travel as the fuel level in the carb affects the amount of fuel being sucked into the engine. but i guess your low idle mixture screw would compensate for any variation in fuel Hight ( in the carby). great video's very well explained
Thanks mate, glad the vids have been helpful. Yes, having a correct float level is very important to get the correct mixture.
Still trying to figure out the problem with my 75 hp Mercury on the invader. Gone through the entire fuel system, checked timing, like you said still 100% not fixed. Someone suggested looking at the reed valves, thanks for the great lesson professor Stu.
You're welcome Don, good luck!
Make sure that the air mixture screws are turned out a little over 2 turns. Seems like the common Yamaha lean sneeze.
Hey Eric, I did have a play with the mixture screws and they seem to be set fine, but I'm going to go through a whole range of mixture / choking / sparing fuel to test which is lean in the next vid.
Another well done video!
Thanks mate!
Your videos are excellent.
Glad you like them!
WME carbys flooding! Other than reed valve failing what's most likely cause for this issue? Thanks in advance
Super video! Great job.
Great Video.
Was totally expecting it to run like a charm! I can't take the suspense any longer! Hurry up next week :)
Me too!!!
meee 3
I like your vids the best on all of youtube.
great helpful video as usual
Thanks Chris!
Hey stu. Great video. I have this particular case, i usually go fishing and when I launch and go to wot I go very well, but after a couple of minutes you can hear the engine dropping in rpms and loose about 2 or 3 miles per hour. The engine is a 25 hp tohatsu updated to 30hp by changing the restrictor plate and adjusting the timing
It could be as simple as the throttle cable creeping back. If not I would make sure the fuel pump can supply enough fuel, it may not be able to keep the carbs full.
Carb clean first then look at other stuff.
good video well explained
Thanks mate. :)
Thank you buddy 👍😄
You're welcome. :)
Wonder video!
If reeds are bad with a carburetor have a black stain to the intake. I have a 3 cylinder Yamaha and the bottom carb has a black stain that’s hard to rub off on the intake side. The rest of the carbs are clean and shiny
Keep the videos coming
Will do! :)
What is a reed valve?
It's a lovely character that reads you books.
If you upset the reed valve it reads you tales of woe and unrest.
If you whisper into the reeds soul, rumour has it you should stop reeding the you tube comments section.
But ain't nobody got time for that!
hola lo felicito buenos videos d demotracion
Thanks mate!
Hi there, and greatings from Norway.
I have a frind tat hade the same problem with his 25Hp Yamaha, semes to be almost the same engine, it was coughing and it was spewing a cloud of petrol out of the bottom carb every time it
misfiere `d.
He checked everything, changed piston rings, all the seals, cleaned carburetors, he finaly took of the flywheel and found a chafed wire, repaird that then everything was fine.
Yes, it can take quite a while to find the problem some times but it's always satisfying when you do!
Fantastic job as usual!
I’m a rookie and recently I’ve gotten into buying cheap outboards and fixing up for sale or keep when I want to. I’m recently working on a Johnson 50hp and she’s starting right up (easier with a little throttle up) but won’t stay running. I notice has spitting out slightly out one carb. I’m going to use this info and hope to find the issue.
@@Mad-Coo Motor has been sold. But, i did fix the issue by flipping the reeds and got rid of the little gap. Replaced missing rubber retainer for the adjustment screw in front of carb right above the intake while because it would rattle lose each time I speed up. Ran great from there on out.
hola exelente los videos , soy su admirador desde argentina como quisiera trabajar con usted exelente gracias
Gracias compañero, me alegro de que disfrute de los videos.
I like the way you pronounce "carb yer ay terz"
Thanks!
A term you will hear around 2 strokes is transfer ports. You drew that on the board. Max power is somewhat determined by the design and number of the transfer ports leading to the cylinder. The crankcase is pressurized until the ports are uncovered by the piston downward movement . Key is that exhaust port is uncovered first then the intake which will scavenge the remains exhaust gases out. Some 2 strokes don't have reed valves and some others in motorcycles have a rotary valve. Cool stuff.
Ah, interesting about some bikes having rotary valves, I'll have to look into those. From what I hear the shape of the exhaust after the port is critical with 2-strokes too to get the gasses extracted efficiently.
Keep in mind that the transfers are effectively the intake valves for the cylinder when compared to a 4 stroke.. Where the 2 stroke intake is the intake to the crank case not the cylinder.
Transfers mostly influences mid range power up to peak, once a 2 stroke is at peak it tends to over scavenge so much intake spills from the exhaust port, hence an exhaust provides back pressure to plug escaping intake charge at peak.
One important moment is blow down time which is the period the exhaust is open for and transfers not yet open when initial cylinder pressure blows down out the exhaust.
A piston port intake timing has symmetrical so opening and closing is equal degree from TDC like exhaust and transfers, all controlled by piston.
The disc valve is asymmetric so intake opens a lot earlier that allows the crankcase to equalise pressure through the carby instead of back flowing down the open transfers as the piston is rising.
The reed valve timing is like a disc valve timing at low revs opening very early and then like a piston port at high revs, so the opening point in degrees gets later as engine speed increases, so rotary disc has an advantage in smaller engines due to less gas inertia where reed is as good as disc over about 150 cc per cylinder..
I agree that a systematic approach to trouble shooting is the only way of making sure that all the bases have been covered and yet still it can leave you scratching your head, I can relate this to an MD who's patient is displaying a multitude of symptoms which can some times lead to a totally unexpected problem, definitely engine repair requires clear thinking, persistence and a ton of patience, all words I know but can't relate to LOL
There are definitely some jobs that leave you scratching your head, that's for sure. We've got plenty of things to check on this outboard yet though! ;)
Good video, got a evinrude 9.9hp and tons of gas flow backwards of the carburator hopefully these valves arent too expensive.
I remenber those yamaha are all pretty much the same, that issue you have make sure its the spark plugs the engine is supposed to have, engine fuel/oil ratio if it has more oil than its designed for that issue will come up and if the carburator is not adjusted correctly same thing (mostly when too rich air/fuel ratio). Worst scenario water is going into the cylinder making misfires.
Edit: the 9.9hp seems like lost half the reed valve, first time I see those metal reed valves break, tough they was kinda forever lasting compared to carbon reed valves.
Good diagram
thankx real helpfull vedio thank you
Most welcome
THANK U WE FOUND BOTH COILS WERE CRACKED
I had the exatct same problem on my old 55 hk Yamaha. It was a easy fix, yust sold the engine. I told about the problem of course.
Ha! That's certainly a nice easy way to go. ;)
Great Video, I found that the lowest reed valve on my 3 cylinder 2 stroke was rusted an got a little lime on. This points to other problems aswell, i guess. After looking at the cylinder head, i found a lot of gunk, lime and rust. I will change the whole Cylinder head with gaskets. Do you see any other points where water could come into this area around the reed valve? Thanks.
thanks I done as u said .as they have been on now a year or so so I wanted see if I done it right way but I think am getting bit soft water on starboard side so that engine would use a bit more petrol as it be cavatating and bit but yes it's OK I could put alarm rudder between them but don't think it's worth it there on a 25 foot princess 6 berth and I get 6 knots and that fine turn her on a penny and fuel consumption is very low all in all good job thank u. John McCormick
You're welcome John.
Hi Stu absolutely cracking videos most helpful. I have a Mercury 15hp 2 stroke and it has the sneeze! Could this still be the carb as it’s not twin carbs? A little advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers Steve
Yes Stu, 1969 Kawasaki's had rotary valve discs as well as Spanish Montesa motocross bikes. An expansion chamber on the exhaust side helps as well.
We have an old Kawasaki in the shop at the moment that needs repairing. Will interesting to get into that job.
DAP go kart engines had rotary valves and there was one with desmodrodic (?) cam driven inlet valves- which defeats the whole idea for a two stroke engine for me. Poppets have been used in the past as well.
William Fowler had an 80s Kawasaki KE100 years ago that never ran right (bought it used) threw a ton of parts at it, still never ran right. Turned out to be rotary valve seals. Changed that out and she ran like a scalded cat! A good motorcycle shop gave me the free advice that pointed me in the right direction.
Excellent explanation of carb. read valves. Easy to understand. Thanks Stu;..... Angelo
You're welcome Angelo. :)
Hey Dingus. You can flip the read valves over and it will fix any seeping
Depending on the design you often can and see if it helps. If not they'll need replacing.
@@DangarMarine
Been watching you for a few years
Enjoy yr show.
Danger marine!! Love your content man! You have a vast knowledge of things that go bang! So do you know why my 83’ Suzuki Dt75 is so flippin hard to start (killed a battery once) in the winter (30 degree C)? However in the summer it starts like a dream
i have seen 2 stroke cycle explained before ,but i finally understood it thanks to your explanation.
my 9.9hp 2 stroke is doing exactly the same thing.im thinking one of the coils/leads is breaking down- any thoughts??
It could be leads but in the end this outboard turned out to have a problem with the carburettors not being synchronised th-cam.com/video/NnotQmnKxKM/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for sharing when things don't go completely according to plan. Elsewise it'd just be like a "Haynes Manual".
Thanks Jonathan, you are dead right about there being lots of value in showing the wrong turns along the way.
When you get another carburetor clean/piston head decoke engine how about testing out one of those 'seafoam' / 'engine tune in a can' products? I know we don't seem to use them much here, but it would seem plenty of people swear by them over seas.Looks like you may be heading for that DVA on this one. I like the step by step process of ruling things out you show- too many videos only show the one item that fixed the issue, not the 10 other things checked first. One , your way makes me feel not so stupid, two, it shows a logical process to follow which is way more educational and useful. Once again, thank you.
Hey Ron, there are a couple of products like that I'd be keen to try. Salt-Away is another one I've never used but I'd like to give a shot on some of these old crusty outboards.
Ron Powell i
I too would like to see those results. Recently began using it on new "96" Johnson. Also used Salt away for the first time on my aluminum boat.
very good explanations. Can reed valve plates be replaced without exchanging the entire assembly? If so do you have a video on doing that service? Enjoyed it. Thanks
My Johnson 70 has a hard time starting... and once run and shit down needs like a tree warm cycle. I have changed the fuel pump, primer solenoid and now i am wondering about reeds..i noticed on idle there was some gas bubbles coming from the prop exhaust the other weekend. I have had issues flooding while trying to start a lot of times on cold start.
Thanks. Never had 2 cycles explained before. Now I understand how they work. Give the man a cold Fosters on me.
You're welcome, thanks for the beer! :)
the defernts in it is my has the smal head cover and the other has the head cover made in it
Great videos Stu! Question, I have a 3 cylinder Johnson 70hp where the bottom cylinder overheated and melted the rod bearing. Upon analysis in a sober state, the reed valve for this cylinder has a 4mm gap. Could this be a high probability for causing my engine failure? Thanks much and cheers!
Yes, it can cause the cylinder to run lean and get hot.
I have a 96 force 120, two carbs,no fuel spitting out, runs pretty well starting good, I pulled reed blocks out and I can see daylight in some of them, can I flip them over to see if they close, or just replace all of them? I love your videos,AWSOME videos
I would replace them because if they break from fatigue cracks they will get sucked into the engine and you don't want that!
Stu, great video. My motor was not used the last three years (or more from previous owner), used your videos to get it running this year. Runs great over 1500 rpm's, less than that it has misses and sneezes. Been using Seafoam and that is making it run better the more I run it, plan on cleaning the carbs soon. Is there anything else I should check out?
Thanks Steve. Sounds like a similar situation to this outboard so I would say a carb clean is the main thing to focus on.
Pull the boat out for winter, and clean and rebuilt the carbs. They were pretty clean but had a sticky float on the lower carb (upside down it had at least a 3 second hang time). The rebuild kit had all the replacement parts for this. The engine now starts easier and has no problem idling at 800 rpm's (750-850 spec). Now I will use your cable fix for the control cables and I will be in great shape. Thank you for all your videos.
I have a 2001 50hp johnson outboard. It keep stalling and run rough I have changed the spark plug use couple of time spark plug is bad now. Most of the time it take 10 to 15 crank to start. Can you help?
I've got an old 87 nissan NS70a . For the longest I've had a rough idle. Just recently, I have had a high speed problem. Spits and sputter and does not want to make top speed. If you work it to top speed slowly it may catch for a few minutes and then go back down... Went to lake yesterday and had the carb cover off and have fuel spitting back off the lower carb. Pulled the carbs and reed valves and mine are the stainless ones and you can see light shining through. Ordered some new ones from Boyesen and will let you know how it comes out.... Will say this also, I replaced water pump impeller couple weeks ago after noticing no water out of telltale next day after a night fishing trip.... Pumping water again fine now and I am hopeful I didn't fry the head or head gasket. But I'm really hopeful after seeing that fuel spit out of carb which has been doing it a long time as the inside of the engine compartment is really oily. Again, I'll let you know how things work out and really appreciate your videos!!!
Yes, fuel spitting out the carb is a classic bad reed valve symptom. I would be 99% sure your telltale was just blocked with a bit of crud, water will still have been flowing through the motor just fine.
No, I should have explained the water pump thing in more detail. And obviously that is what I was hoping it to be a blocked line to the tell tale or the little outlet it comes out but checked all that and had to pull the foot and replace the impeller. It was like a knub. Had seen it prior to that trip fairly recent pumping water out the telltale though so hopeful this reed valve thing will be it. Also noticed no gaskets whatsoever where the back of the carbs mount to the intake plate. So bought some gasket material , rewatched your video where you cut them out, (however I went to the lipstick method to make a print after I wasn't satisfied with the oil method. Probably not the right amount). Today is Sunday here and the reeds are suppose to be here Thursday so hopefully Friday , I'll have a good report for ya. No question about, I'm seeing light thru them and as I mentioned was getting gas spit back out of one of the carbs.
Thanks again!!!!
Got the reeds in today and installed and test run today. No spitting and sputtering, just smooth acceleration. Thanks to you for getting me confidence in doing a few things that I would have never attempted. It's an old 1987 motor but for now a happy one. Thanks again!!!
Here's a short video I shot from my phone of the test run. I made multiple runs like this and no problems at all. Oh and forgot to hold the phone sideways to get full screen. Sorry about that.
th-cam.com/video/sLJyQ3NaQ6Q/w-d-xo.html
Would I be able to change a 1986 yamaha 9.9hp to a 15hp yamaha by changing the reed valves. Or was that only for newer yamaha outboards
so I guess the principal is the same on my motor, Its a 1993 150 johnson. It has the 12 little check valves on the carb manifold. At least 7 are damaged, and 4 were stuck open. Is this why low idle speed was rough and slobbery?
Jofe I have an evinrude of 40 hp 1986 that shoots. upper carburetor fuel, I change the top module of the blades, but I keep throwing fuel through the upper carburetor that can be