What a conductor writes in a score: inside Leonard Bernstein's own score of Mahler's Symphony 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2022
- A look inside what famous conductor Leonard Bernstein marked down in his OWN score that he used for a performance of Mahler's first symphony with the NY Philharmonic. We'll see what markings are normal things that conductors write down, and some unexpected indications which include (spoiler) a whole new instrument.
Source: NY Philharmonic archives
archives.nyphil.org
Check them out, it is an amazing free resource
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Definitely do more of these. Super interesting.
Thank you, happy to hear it’s interesting to others too :)
@@howimettheopera Sure, it is really interesting for a lot of us ! Cheers !
I studied conducting with Marstro Bernstein. Yes indeed he added the triangle there. He felt that it indeed belonged there, and made it sound much better. He also strongly suggested to Aaron Copland that the original ending of his 3rd symphony wss almost a letdown and Copland DID change it. It was only recently that some conductors chose to perform the work with the original ending. After listening to these recordings, I agree with the Maestro, that the coda was a bit of a "letdown." The point I am trying to bring out here is that Copland was still alive so he "suggested" the change, whereas Mahler wss already deceased and all the suggesting Bernstein would do would fall on deaf ears, so he just made the change himself. You have to agree, it does sound "better" with the triangle part added. (At least, that is how I perform it).😊
Yes, please do this with as many conductors as you are willing !
This was actually a very informative video! I'm a conductor myself, and I know how crucial it can be to go over what a given piece has, so that the performance can go well. It's so interesting to see markings of one great composer/conductor inside of another great composer/conductor. Also, when the title said "Bernstein's OWN Score", I actually thought you meant one of his own pieces. But either way, this video was very well-done! :)
Sure, do more of this! If it's interesting for you, it'll be interesting to others. I'm here to listen.
Fascinating. Keep these insights coming! Thanks.
Thanks for your generosity Anna
Absolutely good. Do more, please
This is fascinating. Thank you!
This was great, and instructive, thanks.
Definitely will keep on listening to your future, or other presentations.
👍
Thanks for your introducing😊
Glad you're back! These are super interesting!!
thank you, glad you enjoyed it! yes, I'm hoping this time I can stay for a while before falling of the TH-cam map again XD
Thoroughly enjoyed. More please.
Would love more of these also!
Brava!
Very well done, informative, enjoyable....keep up the fine work👍
Watch your back because your giving away all the "conductor secrets." 😂
oh i loved this video. definitely i want more!
Amazing video please make more like it!!
Thank you so much, glad you find it interesting too :)
The Bernstein score marked that I find most interesting is his markup of Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. He changes one of the piano solos to replicate the bass clarinet solo in the opening. I noticed it because there was this cool glissando he does with two fingers, that I never recalled hearing before. (For good reason: it isn't in the printed music).
There is irony here. It was brought to my attention via Bruce Haynes' excellent book "The End of Early Music: A Period Performer's History of Music for the Twenty-First Century". In the Baroque days, riffing sort of like a jazz musician, was not only allowed, but expected. Beethoven started the trend of Composer having sole control of the music: Composer as God. And then there was a shift towards not only Composer as God, but Conductor as Pope who interprets the intentions of God.
Bruce Haynes even cites in Bernstein's introductory remarks made at a performance of the Brahms Piano Concerto; he feels a little slighted for having to follow the Glenn Gould's idiosyncratic tempo markings which were clearly not Brahms'. But on the sly he'd do the exactly same thing. It is not that this is wrong - it is a matter of your view of whether there should be leeway for interpretation in a performance. As I said, in the Baroque period this was expected. What I have always found disingenuous though is making the changes but not admitting to it. And that is possibly because the perceived job that a conductor' is faithfully following the intentions of the conductor is at stake here.
Personally, Bernstein's edits interesting worth doing. In Mahler Symphony IV, he uses a young boy singer instead of an Alto. I think that works well there.
Simply fascinating!
Thank you for these very informative and interesting videos. You present them with so much knowledge and passion, thus keeping your viewers engaged. I just discovered you and am binging on your vlogs. I would love to see you conduct. (BTW, you're wearing a lovely sweater 😊)
Great video - I checked out the archive link and found that besides the added triangle cue that you highlighted, Bernstein 'reinforced' the very last bar of the piece with trombones and timpani playing the octave D's. I'd heard a reference to this but most interesting being able to see the maestro's own handwritten note.
Very interesting, I'll definitely go have a look at that too. Yes, it is really cool that this is available online, that's why I wanted to share this resource because I found out about it by chance!
Fascinating! I’m new here, and I absolutely love your series. Imagine adding an instrument to Mahler! Only Bernstein could do that.
Please, make more. Very interesting stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
Hello Anna, yes, I find this fascinating, please do more. Please show us other conductor's markings and explain to us what they are doing. I have a special request, I have been trying to understanding phrasing and bars for at least 2 years but I have very few videos that show the bars and describe the phrasing. In another video you show the numbers over the bars as the music plays. Can you do more of that type of video!!! That would be something that is rare on youtube and very useful. THANKS A MILLION.
PLZ DO MOREEEEEE
Adelante con esto. Animo!
Fantastic!!!!
Heya, Anna. Good to see you again! Dya watch Brett's Mendelssohn? Whaddya think? :D
Of course I did, watched it live even :) I really enjoyed it, and I have so much respect for what they’ve accomplished and how they got there in their own way. Also thought the conductor was really good! Especially since he seemed to be unwell or something before entering, but you could not tell that at all while conducting!
@@howimettheopera yeah. Hope his dripping nose didn't bother him too much during the concert
Excelente video, si hablan de la historia de la orquesta de New York, Mahler y de Bernstein yo estoy dentro :)
So interesting!!!!!
Muy interesante Ana .A ver si puedes hacer parecido con una pieza dirigida por Karlos Kleiber.
This was very interesting, you could even just continue this score and make this into a bit of a mini series!
Just a bit of musical trivia; The first American recording of Mahler's 1st Symphony was by Dimitri Mitropolous and the Minneapolis S.O. in 1940. Columbia Records refused to finance the session for such an unknown work that Mitropolous paid for it out of his own pocket. The recording was so successful sales wise that second print run was ordered.
Triangles? Mahler wanted bells there I believe :) hug from Norway 😊
9:56
Nice twoset reference:)
first one to spot it! I guess the detective name suits you well ;)
Dang.. after listening to the Bernstein Mahler 1, gunna have to rewatch at minimum 9.56 lol
EDIT: Well Done Detective. Had thought it was a strange image to put over the score, but yeah.. TwoSet spreading their fame.
Hola Ana, podrias hacer un video analisis de Ades:Dante con Dudamel dirigiendo?
Bravo
Thank you 🙏✨
Ok, what about Kurt Masur and Colin Davis ? Cheers !
These are super interesting! There’s a score they have of Shostakovich’s 5th, where he basically made all the tempi faster. I’m not a fan of the changes or the resulting performance (apparently, neither was Shostakovich), but the creative process is incredibly fascinating.
And the triangle “doubling” the violins kind of works. I’m curious if this was being conducted at what is now David Geffen Hall (then Philharmonic Hall). Apparently, it had pretty bad acoustics, at least prior to the most recent renovation. And the higher frequency overtones don’t travel that far anyway, so I wonder if the addition of the triangle was to boost the brightness of those high notes.
Are there any sources where you can find the markings of Carlos Kleiber? This would be amazing!
I haven't checked but go to their website and see if they have any! I've linked it in the description
@@howimettheopera Thank you, I'll have a look!
#HowIMetTheOpera Hi please do one Shostakovich's 5th ❤❤❤
I shared this and other TH-cam videos you have created with my Mom. She LOVES what you are sharing. She was a student at Tanglewood when Bernstein was there and a graduate of Music and Art. I would LOVE to connect you and my Mom. She is also a composer, a musicologist and a wonderful human being. Might you message me your contact info. to share with her? My name is Rosalind Mae Reis. Thank You! Play On!
Many conducting competitions begin by offering two pianos to conduct. How do you conduct two pianists (bcause two pianists are not the same as an orchestra) ?
This is a really good question; sometimes we even practice at university with two pianos because it is hard to have an orchestra "available" at all times. It is not the same; we can practice things like setting the tempo, transitions between parts, how you show dynamics and general character, but it is an approximation. The piano generates sound in a VERY different way as instruments (pressing down a key is not the same as blowing air or stroking a string), not to mention conducting 2 people vs at least 30 is also a different experience. But you can still practice a lot of things (like what I mentioned before) that are helpful later in front of the orchestra.
Add a triangle. Oh, my. Lenny does a more cowbell. 😉😉
I really enjoyed your presentation. Perhaps it would be instructive (if not downright enlightening!) to compare two or three conductors' approaches to the same bit of music... Say von Karajan--Bernstein--Ozawa. Cheers from Japan, and thank you!
thank you! I have made a video like this already comparing Bernstein and Kleiber's approach to a Brahms symphony, so maybe it could interest you :)
My curriosity was peaked when you payed that section where Bernstein had notated about the triangles in the Second Movement and so I went looking for a recording of this Symphony .. th-cam.com/video/ISBfOpztUZM/w-d-xo.html . This may be a recording that confirms this was a constant adjustment he made to the score, but am not too sure where it lies in relation to the score notations you are using.
Thanks for making this old Wombat revisit what was a favourite Symphony, just out of curiousity.
Yes, I noticed this too with VPO as well! That’s when I went and checked other conductors recordings in case it was a traditional change I may have not known about, but no one else does this. So it looks like he did decide to change this with other orchestras beyond the NY Phil but as far as I could check no one else decided to incorporate this too. Thanks for your curiosity and for watching!
@@howimettheopera My edition from Philharmonia Partituren (no. 446) has these triangle notes. I was given it by my orchestration teacher (who is a conductor - student of Celibadache). It's a study edition marked "revised edition". In the foreword it quotes source material from "1. The Manuscript, 2. The First Edition published by Weinberger in 1899, 3. A second impression of the first edition, 4. The Printer's Copy of the definitive version published in 1906 by Universal Edition". It notes there was some confusion from a 1943 Boosey & Hawkes edition which were later taken into the Universal Edition, even though this edition missed changes that had been put into the definitive 1906 editiion.
The intriguing thing is that he just used these scores for memorizing his signaling. When he actually conducted he used no score at all.
absolutely! marking down as you learn (or revisit) something really helps you incorporate it, and like you said ,later on you may not even plan to look down at the score much or have it at all.
Often he did not refer much to a score in a performance, but he also rehearsed them, with a score.
Bernstein covered all this himself in his conducting program: th-cam.com/video/C_Eo0qYrugY/w-d-xo.html
Bret playing the triangle lol.
little twosetter reference ;)