Hello Paul. You achieved your aim of being able to align (within a few thou) your vice by means of the keys. This takes away the headache of getting somewhere close when you need only to be close. As for achieving more accuracy you show that you have wriggle room to indicate the vice in. Well done on getting there. 👏👏👍😀
Like that. Ideal for when close enough is good enough (often), and just enough wiggle room for a soft hammer to bring it dead nuts when the need arises.
Hi Paul, Well done, you got there. As you say this will be more than good enough most of the time. Allways interesting to read the comments. Have a great weekend!!
Well - that kind of issue is one of the reasons import equipment is cheap - but just goes to show that a bit of ingenuity and work brings it back good again. Top result if the back of the vise is parallel to the fixed jaw. I don’t use tramming keys myself as I prefer to just indicate the fixed vise jaw in, but the keys can be a quick set up tool for sure. Cheers!👍
Just to expand on your thinking I have a couple of machine vises that have only one round dowel as an indicating/locating key in the tee slot. That gives one fixed pivot point on one side whilst the free side of the vise is simply tapped into tram with the setting hammer then both clamping bolts nipped up.... it makes setting/tramming the vise very quick to do.
Hi Stuart I think I'll find out through experience whether the tram keys are worth it. They made the slots in the base of the vice like they never were intended to be used - just a look-nice fashion accessary. Cheers
That Vevor vice is a bit of a never ending project! Unlike other comments here, add me to the list of those who are in favour of keys. I milled new slots in my vice base to get it sat on the table where I wanted it, but unlike your keys mine are a slip fit into the slots. The vice is then within about 2 thou of parallel guaranteed. Sometimes its useful to be able to mount the vice at 90deg, for milling the ends of a long bar for example, then the same keys get used on the other slots and no tapping in is needed.
I'm never quite sure what's coming next Greg. I thought it would be part 2 of vice improvements, but then it isn't/wasn't (depending on when you read this). 😁
First time viewing your channel. Lesson in life never take anything for granted. Your second approach worked well. However I would have preferred to have the blocks at .500 or .499 and there should have not been any wiggle room. I liked that you clamped the jaws to two rings that were snug in the slots. Great video. Aaron from Canada
I have a similar vice that I use for big brutal stuff on the Bridgeport. There are lots of issues with it, like you can see oil weeping from the rear of the fixed jaw and the front of the moving jaw as you tighten the vice on to something sitting on parallels. The face of the jaws are not very vertical, nor flat. I had to scrape the underside of the vice body to get it flat enough to stop it from rocking. I tram it in each time, but I'm thinking it might make more sense to use keys as the thing isn't a precision instrument anyway. I use it mostly for material prep for things that won't fit in the Gerardi vice on my CNC mill. There are some inconsistencies between the faces of the fixed part, there are some dished areas, although over a few inches, it averages out very well. Typical use is to hold a sawn piece of stock that's a little too wide for the Gerardi on tall parallels and mill the top and four sides, leaving a little grip stock. Then I transfer it to the vice in the CNC and remove the grip stock and face the part as the first op. That way, the tramming of the big vice is almost irrelevant, and so long as the bed of the Bridgeport is trammed perfectly, it won't even matter if the vice jaws are not level, so long as I'm transferring the part to the CNC for the next operation. I have a decent 4 inch vice for the BP, but I rarely use it, the 6 inch cheapie is good enough for most stuff.
Hi M&M good to hear from you again. It's clear the cheap import vices have their limitations, but they are very cheap after all. I need to check the jaw faces on mine for vertical and also front to back of the jaw holder blocks. What's trammed on the front might not be trammed on the back. Cheers Paul
Nice to see a shaper doing some real work! I made quick change toolholders with mine, but sadly I'm downsizing my workshop, and I just don't have room for a shaper in my temporary shop 😢
Sad those slots are that far out. Good job on the keys. My Kurt came with keys, fitted by the original owner and their spot on. But I always run an indicator before doing anything critical. You’re another step closer, Paul , Cheers…..
Great video Paul. Given me a good idea for something similar at a local community workshop I frequent; IE:- taking the headache out of tramming the vice every time I want to use the milling machine...
Hi Dave, community workshop sounds fun. I think having the keys saves a lot of time for >90% of regular jobs. Quite frequently the last fraction of accuracy is not important and there is still the option to clock the vice in if there is just a little freedom of the key in the T-slot. Cheers
Woke up for some reason and this popped up on my tablet. You do post at an odd time, but very welcome. It does look as if you are doing to your vice what I intend doing with mine. Watching with interest.
Well indeed Alan. I just have to wait a while to forget about the invested time and then I'll be happy to have another go. I find I can write off time quite quickly - maybe just a week. But it takes much longer to write off wasted money - probably 6 months. Cheers
Hi Paul, I had the same issue on some generic vice, plus it had one of the jaw inserts had a broken off SHCS head glued in, setup similar to yours, trued up slots, better than 0.03 mm now. Thanks for sharing.
I really like Horizontal milling Mike and I've been looking for an excuse to do some for ages. In my hobby shop it does not need to be the fastest or most efficient, just enjoyable is enough. Cheers.
Nice job. Good info to consider. I'm thinking about buying a 6in vise. I currently have a 5in, and none of the available accessories are available for 5in.
Hiya MidEng, I think near the edge it might crack off (in fact I think I've done it). And punching cast iron to secure a screw head (for example) it can just break off in bits. Cheers
When I make tram blocks for the bottom of a vise, after I make them fit the slots in the bottom of the fuse, I insert them in the vise and tighten them down. Then I put a parallel 0.500 inch thick but enough height to stick out the to; of the jaws and tighten that down tight. Then I turn the vise upside down push it against the back of the slot and clamp it down. Then I machine the tram blocks. They can be machined to exactly fit the slots, which they should be. Don’t machine both sides at once. It’s a pretty easy machining job to get the width exact one side at a time while measuring them. The screw is definitely a bit short. But I wouldn’t put a bearing on that end. The screw hangs free so that chips can exhaust out the back of the vise.
Hi Mel, good point about leaving the end open to let the chips flow out. People flag up the Kurt vices as the best, and many do have a bearing on the end. Anyway .... I'll think about it some more. Cheers
Fixing the length so it engages more of the nut would be a great idea. That's a decided "miss" in my opinion. But I'd avoid adding a bearing at the "free end" of the screw. For the Kurt style hold down feature the nut and by connection the lead screw needs to float a little so it does not resist the wedging action that pulls the lower block, which is also the nut, against the upper jaw block. The idea is that the action of those two parts wedging together pinches them against the bed rails. In effect the clamping effect IS the far end lead screw bearing already.
I am going to buy one of these vises. I wonder if this is problem with all of the vevor vises, I'm betting it is to one degree or another. Interesting fix. I wonder how difficult it will to do this work on a round column mill? Not easy im guessing.
Hi Jeff, I can't comment on a round column specifically but if I decide to remachine those slots to true them up I will use the vertical head. (Yes I might still machine the slots true and make another set of keys - it's just a hobby 😁.) Cheers
G'day Paul. I feel your frustration chasing the "micron". As a matter of interest, if you move the DTI from the rear of the vice to the fixed jaw does it still read the same. Regards, Aaron.
I wouldn't use tramming keys personally, however, you should be tramming the inside of the fixed jaw as that's the area that matters. Nowhere else does?
Hi Darren, I made the assumption that the back of the jaw block is parallel to the front and we know that's a dangerous assumption so I need to check. But both of those jaws fit either side of the fixed and sliding blocks to give the vice clamp action more span if you need it for bigger work pieces. So the front and back faces of the mounting blocks aught to be perfectly parallel (and maybe they are .... now where's that DTI .... ). Cheers
Interesting video, quick newbie query, is the double cutter on the horizontal arbour one piece or is it just 2 side and face cutters with a spacer between? Cheers!😊
They are 2 separate side and face cutters with a spacer sleeve between them to set the cutting width....I served a good deal of my apprenticeship time on Archdale and Cincinnati horizontal milling machines.
Hi Deebo, as people have said, two identical cutters with a spacer. I ganged two cutters because I don't have three 😁. My ambition would be a line up of cutters along the arbour but then I'd have to think of a project to use them. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed very true. The comment facility also serves as a vehicle to promote best practices from tradesmen. Thanks for keeping this additional information available to help others.
I think I would have machined the vise key slots to square, you were 1/2 way there while testing. All that was needed was a set of clamps and a cut it. Then make a larger set of keys. 🤷♂️ But that’s one of the beautiful aspects of machining eh? More than one way to achieve success !
Hi Jason, I agree the best way would have been to re-machine the slots square. I actually have some 20x20 stock square bar so it would have been no extra cost or work really. But still ..... on another rainy day I might go back and do that - or for the length-ways keys perhaps. Cheers
Hello Paul, something I never checked on mine, I never use keys, always just tram in, each time I use it, as I said the last time I had to do some scraping on top and bottom, but the only thing I don't like about it is it is very soft material
Hi Peter, the vice comes with some compromises but it's cheap enough and so far I have found the jaw does not lift when you clamp it - so better than many vices in that respect. Cheers
Base is ok within 0.01 of mill table. So I'm happy with that. But the fixed jaw is out 0.45mm over 40mm. When I've time, I will look into it. @marley589
Whenever I find or come across cheap tools made of decent stuff I always wonder if what we get is a rough hewn version of what should be a finished product whereby a little finagling makes it a better product. I have a number of cheap tools and most of them have become very serviceable with a bit of whittling. In saying all that I admit that nothing, and I mean nothing, beats the sheer joy and quality of old, professional grade equipment.
Hi ClassyDays, the problem is the real quality stuff is so expensive so the only viable option is buy cheap and fettle. Moreover there is plenty of worn out quality stuff around which is well past its best and still expensive. Cheers
@HaxbyShed it is satisfying to get a cheap tool working accurately though. Cheap tools also make the hobby and industry more accessible. At the very least it only needs fettling once. Hopefully.
I can tell you that my own universal harrison cause me quite a few problems because I hadent trammed the table and it made parts off square, caused me a pain!
Hi Anthony, great to have a full universal with the 45 degree swivelling table but yes an overhead too to tram it up. I'm not sure of it's purpose besides cutting helical gears (no doubt I'll discover in time). Cheers
Milling vise improvements? It is the same as it was at the start of the video. 😊 I can't imagine how I would feel having the key pockets still miles out of tram to the brand new vise. Imagine if you lost one of those keys. Cut the pockets true in both x and y and make better fitting keys, you will feel better when using it every time. I assumed at the start that you were going to machine the original keys to suit your machine tee slots..
alternatively just drill and ream 2 fresh holes on the underside of the vise and fit a pair of round dowels as the locating keys. I only use one singular round locating dowel on my machine vises and tap the other free end into tram with a copper hammer.....the locating points under the vise don't necessarily need to be milled slots,round dowels will work just as well.
@@howardosborne8647 Good idea. The pins can be rotated as they wear. Unfortunately, the tee slots in the bed seem to be so worn they are no real use. I also use the quick 2 pass pivot method as you do, but use alternating tee bolts to pivot around. I found with my vises that the slots for the tee bolts were also not in line with the jaw which made tramming a pain. With the vise clamped as in the video, I machined these bolt slots equally both sides which really helps. When used with high tensile tee bolts, thick hardened washers and flange nuts gives the best results, better still, machine the mating surfaces that the washers sit on.
Hi Tates11, I tend to keep hold of the original parts as 'reserve' in case I mess up. I may still recut the key slots in the vice and make new keys, or perhaps just remachine the slots for the other Axis at least. I've got the time (providence willing). Cheers
I can imagine that's true Alan, unless you really know your machine intimately. I hope my keys will be near enough for 99% of the hobby jobs I do. Cheers
I’m not sure why’d anyone would use tramming keys in the first place, it takes about a minute to indicate in the vice fixed jaw. I have one of those Vevor 6” vices and it’s sitting over in the corner so to speak because I bought and refurbished an older Kurt Vice which is about a zillion times better. And I don’t use any keys in that vice either.
Interesting that they didn't machine machine alignments sufficiently accurately. Personally i would have put a single cylindrical alignment in one side and use that as a pivot for proper tramming. A small thing admittedly but it depends on uour machine OCD.😅 Re sticky gauges, the first thing to do is wash the spindle with lighter fluid, put a drop on each end and it work back and forth a few times, you wont harm the internals as the are not meant to be oiled in the first place. The spindles of gauges are easily contaminated by handling or even from oil in the air, surprising but true, watch Dan Gelbarts video on paint preparation and it's problems.
I'm not a big fan of using these keys. I use different vises on different machines with different T-slots. So, for me it's not an avanage to have these keys.
For accurate results I'm sure indicating is for sure the right way. For 'drop it on and off you go' routine jobs that don't have to be super accurate I think the keys are probably ok. Experience will tell. Cheers
Hello Paul. You achieved your aim of being able to align (within a few thou) your vice by means of the keys. This takes away the headache of getting somewhere close when you need only to be close. As for achieving more accuracy you show that you have wriggle room to indicate the vice in. Well done on getting there. 👏👏👍😀
Thank you Andrew.
Like that. Ideal for when close enough is good enough (often), and just enough wiggle room for a soft hammer to bring it dead nuts when the need arises.
Hi Paul, Well done, you got there. As you say this will be more than good enough most of the time.
Allways interesting to read the comments.
Have a great weekend!!
Hi David, 99+% of comments are supportive and helpful. Even the
Well - that kind of issue is one of the reasons import equipment is cheap - but just goes to show that a bit of ingenuity and work brings it back good again. Top result if the back of the vise is parallel to the fixed jaw. I don’t use tramming keys myself as I prefer to just indicate the fixed vise jaw in, but the keys can be a quick set up tool for sure. Cheers!👍
Just to expand on your thinking I have a couple of machine vises that have only one round dowel as an indicating/locating key in the tee slot.
That gives one fixed pivot point on one side whilst the free side of the vise is simply tapped into tram with the setting hammer then both clamping bolts nipped up.... it makes setting/tramming the vise very quick to do.
Hi Stuart I think I'll find out through experience whether the tram keys are worth it. They made the slots in the base of the vice like they never were intended to be used - just a look-nice fashion accessary. Cheers
That Vevor vice is a bit of a never ending project!
Unlike other comments here, add me to the list of those who are in favour of keys. I milled new slots in my vice base to get it sat on the table where I wanted it, but unlike your keys mine are a slip fit into the slots. The vice is then within about 2 thou of parallel guaranteed. Sometimes its useful to be able to mount the vice at 90deg, for milling the ends of a long bar for example, then the same keys get used on the other slots and no tapping in is needed.
Improving our tools is a just part of hobbyshop life isn't it. Cheers
That was excellent Paul. Look forward to seeing other mods that you do.
It’s always a journey of discovery. Thanks for the video.
I'm never quite sure what's coming next Greg. I thought it would be part 2 of vice improvements, but then it isn't/wasn't (depending on when you read this). 😁
First time viewing your channel. Lesson in life never take anything for granted. Your second approach worked well. However I would have preferred to have the blocks at .500 or .499 and there should have not been any wiggle room. I liked that you clamped the jaws to two rings that were snug in the slots. Great video. Aaron from Canada
Thanks for your comment Aaron 👍
I have a similar vice that I use for big brutal stuff on the Bridgeport. There are lots of issues with it, like you can see oil weeping from the rear of the fixed jaw and the front of the moving jaw as you tighten the vice on to something sitting on parallels. The face of the jaws are not very vertical, nor flat. I had to scrape the underside of the vice body to get it flat enough to stop it from rocking. I tram it in each time, but I'm thinking it might make more sense to use keys as the thing isn't a precision instrument anyway. I use it mostly for material prep for things that won't fit in the Gerardi vice on my CNC mill. There are some inconsistencies between the faces of the fixed part, there are some dished areas, although over a few inches, it averages out very well. Typical use is to hold a sawn piece of stock that's a little too wide for the Gerardi on tall parallels and mill the top and four sides, leaving a little grip stock. Then I transfer it to the vice in the CNC and remove the grip stock and face the part as the first op. That way, the tramming of the big vice is almost irrelevant, and so long as the bed of the Bridgeport is trammed perfectly, it won't even matter if the vice jaws are not level, so long as I'm transferring the part to the CNC for the next operation. I have a decent 4 inch vice for the BP, but I rarely use it, the 6 inch cheapie is good enough for most stuff.
Hi M&M good to hear from you again. It's clear the cheap import vices have their limitations, but they are very cheap after all. I need to check the jaw faces on mine for vertical and also front to back of the jaw holder blocks. What's trammed on the front might not be trammed on the back. Cheers Paul
Nice to see a shaper doing some real work! I made quick change toolholders with mine, but sadly I'm downsizing my workshop, and I just don't have room for a shaper in my temporary shop 😢
That's a shame Sir. It's hard to give things up, as we downsize.
Sad those slots are that far out. Good job on the keys.
My Kurt came with keys, fitted by the original owner and their spot on.
But I always run an indicator before doing anything critical.
You’re another step closer, Paul ,
Cheers…..
Thank you Dean. If I'm ever in the States again I'll buy a Kurt cheap and slip it in my hand luggage. Nobody will notice. 😁
@ you may need a little help placing it in the overhead bin 😂
Great video Paul. Given me a good idea for something similar at a local community workshop I frequent; IE:- taking the headache out of tramming the vice every time I want to use the milling machine...
Hi Dave, community workshop sounds fun. I think having the keys saves a lot of time for >90% of regular jobs. Quite frequently the last fraction of accuracy is not important and there is still the option to clock the vice in if there is just a little freedom of the key in the T-slot. Cheers
Woke up for some reason and this popped up on my tablet. You do post at an odd time, but very welcome.
It does look as if you are doing to your vice what I intend doing with mine. Watching with interest.
Hi Bill, I load the videos during the week to go out at 00:30 on a Friday morning UK time. It started that way and I have just stuck with it. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Never fix whats not broke Paul!
Interesting solution to the problem. The good thing is that you can always address it again if you are not satisfied.
Well indeed Alan. I just have to wait a while to forget about the invested time and then I'll be happy to have another go. I find I can write off time quite quickly - maybe just a week. But it takes much longer to write off wasted money - probably 6 months. Cheers
Hi Paul, I had the same issue on some generic vice, plus it had one of the jaw inserts had a broken off SHCS head glued in, setup similar to yours, trued up slots, better than 0.03 mm now.
Thanks for sharing.
Hi John, I think trueing the slots is the right way. I just got on a track .... and created errors that cancelled out. Never mind .....
Thanks for sharing and using the shaper 😅
Always satisfying to use the shaper. Cheers
I enjoyed watching Paul.
Thank you 👍
good job Paul
gracias por tu comentario. 👍
nice to see some horizontal milling, certainly easier than making tee nuts on the shaper in my experience
I really like Horizontal milling Mike and I've been looking for an excuse to do some for ages. In my hobby shop it does not need to be the fastest or most efficient, just enjoyable is enough. Cheers.
Well done. A great video. Thank you, and cheers from Denmark
Nice to hear from you Henrik. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed it is always nice to watch your videos ;-)
Nice job. Good info to consider. I'm thinking about buying a 6in vise. I currently have a 5in, and none of the available accessories are available for 5in.
👍 Mick, thanks.
Cleaning machine for made this work PLEACE !!!!!!
gracias por tu comentario.
I've never thought twice about centre punching cast iron!
Hiya MidEng, I think near the edge it might crack off (in fact I think I've done it). And punching cast iron to secure a screw head (for example) it can just break off in bits. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Maybe I should think twice about it in future!
Making a reference mark is fine. Whacking a center punch near an edge is another matter.
@@marley589 Agreed.
When I make tram blocks for the bottom of a vise, after I make them fit the slots in the bottom of the fuse, I insert them in the vise and tighten them down. Then I put a parallel 0.500 inch thick but enough height to stick out the to; of the jaws and tighten that down tight. Then I turn the vise upside down push it against the back of the slot and clamp it down. Then I machine the tram blocks. They can be machined to exactly fit the slots, which they should be. Don’t machine both sides at once. It’s a pretty easy machining job to get the width exact one side at a time while measuring them. The screw is definitely a bit short. But I wouldn’t put a bearing on that end. The screw hangs free so that chips can exhaust out the back of the vise.
Hi Mel, good point about leaving the end open to let the chips flow out. People flag up the Kurt vices as the best, and many do have a bearing on the end. Anyway .... I'll think about it some more. Cheers
Fixing the length so it engages more of the nut would be a great idea. That's a decided "miss" in my opinion. But I'd avoid adding a bearing at the "free end" of the screw. For the Kurt style hold down feature the nut and by connection the lead screw needs to float a little so it does not resist the wedging action that pulls the lower block, which is also the nut, against the upper jaw block. The idea is that the action of those two parts wedging together pinches them against the bed rails. In effect the clamping effect IS the far end lead screw bearing already.
The floating nut is the whole purpose of this type of vise. Having the nut in front of the moving jaw is what gives the downward pressure.
Thank you Bruce, advice understood. Cheers.
Thank you 👍
Thx for the vid. Avoid rabbit holes.
Indeed 🐰 best avoided. Cheers
I am going to buy one of these vises. I wonder if this is problem with all of the vevor vises, I'm betting it is to one degree or another. Interesting fix. I wonder how difficult it will to do this work on a round column mill? Not easy im guessing.
Hi Jeff, I can't comment on a round column specifically but if I decide to remachine those slots to true them up I will use the vertical head. (Yes I might still machine the slots true and make another set of keys - it's just a hobby 😁.) Cheers
G'day Paul. I feel your frustration chasing the "micron". As a matter of interest, if you move the DTI from the rear of the vice to the fixed jaw does it still read the same. Regards, Aaron.
Aaron, I am going to have to check that. I made the assumption ....... 🥺
I wouldn't use tramming keys personally, however, you should be tramming the inside of the fixed jaw as that's the area that matters. Nowhere else does?
Hi Darren, I made the assumption that the back of the jaw block is parallel to the front and we know that's a dangerous assumption so I need to check. But both of those jaws fit either side of the fixed and sliding blocks to give the vice clamp action more span if you need it for bigger work pieces. So the front and back faces of the mounting blocks aught to be perfectly parallel (and maybe they are .... now where's that DTI .... ). Cheers
Interesting video, quick newbie query, is the double cutter on the horizontal arbour one piece or is it just 2 side and face cutters with a spacer between? Cheers!😊
They are 2 separate side and face cutters with a spacer sleeve between them to set the cutting width....I served a good deal of my apprenticeship time on Archdale and Cincinnati horizontal milling machines.
@@howardosborne8647 Thank you! First time I’ve seen it, game changer when I make t nuts!
Hi Deebo, as people have said, two identical cutters with a spacer. I ganged two cutters because I don't have three 😁. My ambition would be a line up of cutters along the arbour but then I'd have to think of a project to use them. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Thanks! Always learning, love it! Cheers.
Clever solution to the problem.
Other adjectives spring to mind. Naive, impractical, protracted, bizarre, unusual.😉
Hi Marley, in hobby shops we can indulge ourselves. We don't have to be efficient. Cheers
Thank you Greg.
@@HaxbyShed very true. The comment facility also serves as a vehicle to promote best practices from tradesmen. Thanks for keeping this additional information available to help others.
I think I would have machined the vise key slots to square, you were 1/2 way there while testing. All that was needed was a set of clamps and a cut it. Then make a larger set of keys. 🤷♂️
But that’s one of the beautiful aspects of machining eh? More than one way to achieve success !
Hi Jason, I agree the best way would have been to re-machine the slots square. I actually have some 20x20 stock square bar so it would have been no extra cost or work really. But still ..... on another rainy day I might go back and do that - or for the length-ways keys perhaps. Cheers
Hello Paul, something I never checked on mine, I never use keys, always just tram in, each time I use it, as I said the last time I had to do some scraping on top and bottom, but the only thing I don't like about it is it is very soft material
Hi Peter, the vice comes with some compromises but it's cheap enough and so far I have found the jaw does not lift when you clamp it - so better than many vices in that respect. Cheers
check the vertical of your fixed jaw, mine is miles out. it's a size smaller vice than yours though
Also check the flatness of the base.
Thanks Paul. I will.
Base is ok within 0.01 of mill table. So I'm happy with that. But the fixed jaw is out 0.45mm over 40mm. When I've time, I will look into it. @marley589
Whenever I find or come across cheap tools made of decent stuff I always wonder if what we get is a rough hewn version of what should be a finished product whereby a little finagling makes it a better product. I have a number of cheap tools and most of them have become very serviceable with a bit of whittling. In saying all that I admit that nothing, and I mean nothing, beats the sheer joy and quality of old, professional grade equipment.
Hi ClassyDays, the problem is the real quality stuff is so expensive so the only viable option is buy cheap and fettle. Moreover there is plenty of worn out quality stuff around which is well past its best and still expensive. Cheers
@HaxbyShed it is satisfying to get a cheap tool working accurately though. Cheap tools also make the hobby and industry more accessible. At the very least it only needs fettling once. Hopefully.
I can tell you that my own universal harrison cause me quite a few problems because I hadent trammed the table and it made parts off square, caused me a pain!
Hi Anthony, great to have a full universal with the 45 degree swivelling table but yes an overhead too to tram it up. I'm not sure of it's purpose besides cutting helical gears (no doubt I'll discover in time). Cheers
Milling vise improvements? It is the same as it was at the start of the video. 😊 I can't imagine how I would feel having the key pockets still miles out of tram to the brand new vise. Imagine if you lost one of those keys. Cut the pockets true in both x and y and make better fitting keys, you will feel better when using it every time. I assumed at the start that you were going to machine the original keys to suit your machine tee slots..
alternatively just drill and ream 2 fresh holes on the underside of the vise and fit a pair of round dowels as the locating keys.
I only use one singular round locating dowel on my machine vises and tap the other free end into tram with a copper hammer.....the locating points under the vise don't necessarily need to be milled slots,round dowels will work just as well.
@@howardosborne8647 Good idea. The pins can be rotated as they wear. Unfortunately, the tee slots in the bed seem to be so worn they are no real use. I also use the quick 2 pass pivot method as you do, but use alternating tee bolts to pivot around. I found with my vises that the slots for the tee bolts were also not in line with the jaw which made tramming a pain. With the vise clamped as in the video, I machined these bolt slots equally both sides which really helps. When used with high tensile tee bolts, thick hardened washers and flange nuts gives the best results, better still, machine the mating surfaces that the washers sit on.
Hi Tates11, I tend to keep hold of the original parts as 'reserve' in case I mess up. I may still recut the key slots in the vice and make new keys, or perhaps just remachine the slots for the other Axis at least. I've got the time (providence willing). Cheers
Just out of curiosity did you clock the slot faces for wear or did you assume they were perfect.
It was the first time they had been used so I did not clock the slot faces for wear. But there I go assuming things again ...... Cheers
as retired machanist I seldom ever used keys in bottom of vise always trammed vise parallel as you found you can never trust those slots
I can imagine that's true Alan, unless you really know your machine intimately. I hope my keys will be near enough for 99% of the hobby jobs I do. Cheers
I’m not sure why’d anyone would use tramming keys in the first place, it takes about a minute to indicate in the vice fixed jaw. I have one of those Vevor 6” vices and it’s sitting over in the corner so to speak because I bought and refurbished an older Kurt Vice which is about a zillion times better. And I don’t use any keys in that vice either.
One singular key is useful as it provides a fixed pivot location. A round dowel pin is preferable to a pair of flat location keys.
@@howardosborne8647 Howard Osborne of BSA V Twin fame?
I'd love to have a refurbished old Kurt. Just don't see them here as any sort of sensible price. Cheers
Interesting that they didn't machine machine alignments sufficiently accurately. Personally i would have put a single cylindrical alignment in one side and use that as a pivot for proper tramming. A small thing admittedly but it depends on uour machine OCD.😅
Re sticky gauges, the first thing to do is wash the spindle with lighter fluid, put a drop on each end and it work back and forth a few times, you wont harm the internals as the are not meant to be oiled in the first place. The spindles of gauges are easily contaminated by handling or even from oil in the air, surprising but true, watch Dan Gelbarts video on paint preparation and it's problems.
Hi Chris, good tip on the gauge. I'll check that. Cheers
I guess that’s why a person should buy a Curt vise or similar…unless you like to take the time to make things work when you lack the money. 🤷🏼♂️
Hi Darren I agree it would be nice to have a top quality vice. It's just the cost. Cheers
nuttin wrong with that fix. !!
Thanks Alan. It gets me through another day in the workshop ..... and improves my horizontal milling know-how. Cheers
I'm not a big fan of using these keys. I use different vises on different machines with different T-slots. So, for me it's not an avanage to have these keys.
HI Michel, lucky for me both my shaper and mill have 1/2 inch T-slots. Cheers
I do not use vise keys for two reasons: they make it difficult it set or remove it from the mill table and I have more trust in indicating .
For accurate results I'm sure indicating is for sure the right way. For 'drop it on and off you go' routine jobs that don't have to be super accurate I think the keys are probably ok. Experience will tell. Cheers