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Riot Games Doesn't Understand Esports / THE END of the LoL Caster Meta? - Summoning Insight S7E16
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
- MonteCristo and Thorin discuss the League of Legends regional finals in LCK vs LEC and LCS, more Doublelift drama, why the current broadcast meta may be changing, the economics of professional esports, the Chovy bonjwa debate, the upcoming MSI event, and more.
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Announcing the NEW Last Free Nation culture channel with Thorin, Richard Lewis, and Monte's film club FOUR PLAY. Subscribe on TH-cam here: / @lastfreenationculture
Summoning Insight is the longest-running, most viewed League of Legends esports podcast in the world. Each week, hosts Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles and Duncan "Thorin" Shields break down the most exciting matches from LEC, LCS, LCK, and LPL as well as interviewing professional players, coaches, casters, and journalists from around the world.
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This episode was filmed on April 16th, 2024.
Come join the Last Free Nation Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
0:00:00 - Reactions to Caedrel + LCK Finals overview
0:09:46 - MSI format
0:14:03 - Doublelift lies and lane swap drama
0:26:13 - More on Doublelift and LFN viewership
0:36:22 - Broadcast talent
0:50:38 - Global Finals & why Riot doesn't understand esports
1:07:49 - Pro league economics
1:27:07 - Is Chovy a bonjwa? + MSI preview
2:02:16 - LCK Finals analysis
2:07:53 - LEC Finals
2:16:48 - Discord Subscriber questions
#lolesports
#lolpodcast
#leagueoflegends
thought it was a scrim block didn't realize we were playing finals our bad
Nahhhhh. True but that's wild.
But no lies.
Lies it wasn't 3-0 this was a warm up after a heavy night on the tiles.
Little League ass finals
But gj 👍
No way hahahahahaha
Going to be cringe looking back a these comments when you get clapped at MSI.
Costreaming is crazy. I don't understand how Riot could afford production overhead if half you're viewers aren't even on your stream. Costreamers are reacting to the analyst desk and graphics paid for by Riot while making Millions in their bedroom😂
I am 26 and been watching you guys since the start... Idk if you were always this life lessons deep in your content or I was too young to listen well enough.
I barely keep up with league esport just to understand your show haha because everything that isn't league is pure life gold.
Other wise I probably would have only watched worlds and that's it
Thorin is on a heater in this one
2:38:39 so fire. autism and any brain type can exacerbate certain behaviors and tendencies just like any brain functionality. but using anything as a crutch is never as good as accountability
Loved the old school esports grind talk.
Love the petty grievances segment that is sorely missed from BtN :)
i mean counter strike tournament atmosphere is 1000 times more hype when league of legends. idk where riot money going xd
Riot can stroke themselves that Worlds broke viewership numbers every year while every fucking team in their esports is dying with zero revenue.
Profits back to ccp
Absolutely top tier episode, was glued guys keep it up with this secret sauce!
0:36 4:13 Peyz choke 9:10 12:30 Faker GOAT RULE! 1:30:05 1:35:25 Faker chokes 1:39:40 1:43:56 ADC prison 1:49:00 1:53:20 T1 wolf is the best 1:56:25 Bonjwa history schools caster Wolf 1:58:44 thorin vs Twitch chat cretin football 2:21:07 2:25:50 2:29:00 banana republic 2:37:50
1:08:00 always love hearing travvy gaffy slander. that dude played a big part in killing the lcs
I can't imagine hard core LOL fans (the ones that would go to a venue), think 60-70 euros is too much for a finals ticket. Its like the same price as a concert, how is an esports finals not comparable.
1:06:28 Absolutely spot on by Monte. All of the hype of LEC playoffs has been taken away, so much to the point I don't even bother watching it anymore. During previous seasons I wouldn't miss a single match of playoffs, but now they just feel unimportant. This is sad
1:22:18 really, thorin?...
Glad Monte is familiar enough to continue his exact point three minutes later.
Chovy on Griffin got turbo inted by the INSANE management drama with sword etc too
Spiting thorin seems the most plausible reason that riot axed pro view. It at least makes more sense for me now 😂
Bookmark this comment- Caedral will be streaming F1 within 3 yrs
Top tier speculation
What makes you say this?
I love the gossip episodes. Let's be honest u two are great analysts but NOONE can give me the drama juice like you two❤
Honestly the lpl english casters are BY FAR the best English cast. I think the lesser viewership of the stream helps them a lot. They don’t have to pander or glaze teams they just tell it as it is but don’t dwindle too long on mistakes. At this point the average league viewer is not some casual the game isn’t that big anymore. No one wants to be fed the shlop narratives that the players always know what’s best all the time. You can see the other broadcasts trend towards this direction nowadays and it’s a big reason why costreamers are popping off
They don’t even come remotely close to being the best cast. LCK, LEC and even LCS offers better casting than LPL. There’s a reason Riot was about to cancel the entire LPL English broadcast.
@@MrDespisedIcon ok then give me one real avenue they are “not close” to the other streams. Is it game knowledge? Personality? Understanding narratives? The English lpl team is as good or straight dunks on the other regions in pretty much every category. But sure let’s just say dismissive opinions without backing them up. For example I don’t really like the lpl teams humor but I don’t really like the humor on any cast. The lpl talent isnt even the same as when they wanted to cancel it btw lmao
@@Cashmoneez literally everything you mentioned LCK cast does 10 times better but keep coping. There’s a reason every LPL caster wants to run away to LCK, LEC or LCS the first chance they get.
@@MrDespisedIcon I 100% agree. I think this guy is dreaming if hes saying LPL casters are BY FAR the best lol
@@MrDespisedIcon Riot didn't have control of the LPL broadcast - they only got that this year - and the company running it before did not cancel it due to quality of broadcast or broadcast talent.
I mean doms explanation was the best tbf
I don't know what is worse... that Riot always fuck up and fuck around with their tournament formats or that so many people defend it. It's actually mindblowing how stupid League fans are --- is it like this in every area of the World or is League just something special that breeds idiocy? This is a competitive game that gets treated like a children's toy by both Riot and the fans and it hurts my soul to think about. They definitely care about it, but boy are they misguided, careless and ignorant.
Also, well done to you guys. I had no idea you had 10 million+ downloads over 12 months. That's much higher than I thought you were at! Have watched SI for such a long time - truly the greatest League content to ever exist and stand the test of time.
Riot's greatest accomplishment is brainwashing the masses into thinking they are the good guys. Riot can say/do whatever because they know their army of goblins will defend them.
To Thorin’s question on why people don’t put Wolf on the “greatest support” position or list, my analysis is that a lot of people just have this stereotype that “he is REPLACEABLE, he is NOT indispensable” on Wolf, and those people probably all thinks that if SKT replace Wolf with any other top tier contemporary support such as Gorilla Mata, or CoreJJ, they’d be able pull of the same plays Wolf did, do the same jobs he did, and SKT would win the same tournaments they won regardless while Wolf was on the roster.
And with the above stereotype, any contribution Wolf made for SKT and any huge plays he made will just be auto-ignored by many because they will just think “any other top tier support can do what you do if they are put in your place.”
Thank you thorin for that 28-3 game analysis. That game was insanely disgusting for the falcons to lose but if anything james white shouldve won super bowl mvp brady didnt really do much in the end
Great show as always! The viewership discussion did raise a small question: what is better for you guys if I'm on youtube: watching the VOD or watching the livestream?
strapping in for another banger!
Today i found in my saved episodes - "Summoning Insight' Episode 76: Many Roads to Sodomy". I sure have forgotten what it's about, but will definitely remind myself afterwards!
I go to Croatia for vacation anyway I would absolutely love to combine it with a LoL or CS event for 2/3 days
You don't get it Thorin they HAVE to hold only two international lans per year that way they can make 100% sure every single casual viewer tunes in to both of them and then goes back to not giving a fuck about esports for the other 90% of the year. They care more about capturing the maximum number of low-investment viewers at these events than they do about actually building an esport where people want to watch consistently and want to get invested in teams that aren't T1.
Why would someone want to get invested in a team that isn’t T1? Best team of all time.
@@MrDespisedIcon case and point
@@darrenfleming7901 I watch every league and have been watching since 2014. I still chose to support T1, because their the only team that truly knows the definition of greatness and strives to achieve it every single year. No other team comes close.
@@MrDespisedIcon I don’t dislike T1 I just think there should be room in an esport for more that one team to be popular or else your esport is a failure and that is definitely the case of league. The formats riot imposes and the financial reality of many orgs makes it particularly difficult for any team to build up a brand and gain popularity leaving only the few established teams with name recognition.
When you look at most regions and see like 3/4 or more of the teams just have no fanbase to speak of, that’s a big problem for your esport. How are those orgs supposed to turn a profit without a solid fanbase, and if they can’t gain fans, then why are they sticking around in the scene? These are fundamental questions that Riot can’t answer which is what Monte and Thorin mean when they say that Riot doesn’t understand esports. The financial difficulties of so many orgs is proof of this problem.
People say it’s up to them to do a better job gaining fans but when the issue is affecting everyone but the select few it becomes evident there’s a fundamental problem with how this is run.
The MSI format thing comes from a lot of esport fans not being fans of the highest level of competition.
They just want international/different matchups because they have this mindset of "seeing the same teams is boring."
They're wrong of course because true fans of competition want the highest level regardless of who it is. It's why Dynasties are fun to watch because you want to see how long they can last, and who can challenge them.
You don't enjoy seeing someone beat Michael Jordan and LeBron because you want someone different. You like seeing them lose because you like seeing someone triumph over a great competitor.
Exactly
Great episode guys. Cheers!
Can I just say, I would've loved to see League cast by Thorin and Monte.
I wish somebody would find value in me and aggresively promote it like Thorin does with his people
Upset must have some next level dirt on Thorin for Thorin to suck him off this much
Corruption finally affecting LCS and LEC.
Love to see it happening in real time.
L Finals production 🤡
The part on Pro league economics was straight fire and a serious reality check on the Reddit echochamber. Keep up the work guys
To the point about Faker around the 1:35:00 mark, people all over the place were calling Faker Shaker. They were calling him a choke artist.
I think both narratives existed at once, where people acknoledged his body of work previously but called him a choker in recent years.
Him and T1 winning last year was one of those things that kind of cemented the original part of the legacy.
But I do think people will begin to call him out again after this GenG loss, not because he played bad, which he had some major fumbles. But they'll call him out for losing another final. People remember wins and losses more than the performance.
It's very hard to call Faker a chocker , when he won 10 Lck titles and 4 worlds , and he never got knocked out of semis at any international , he made top 4 90℅ of his career which is insane , it's more of chovy being insane that he won 4peat , and he is the second coming of faker , he is going to be next faker , he will not stop winning . at least domestically because there is no midlaner in lck to match him , which the most important role historically in lck , it was the case with Faker in the past no one could match him , now it's chovy era.
Man wish riot wasn't such a giant cesspool of garbage, I rewatched analyst desk segments of season 3 worlds and just nostalgia blast wishing for more monte like that on desks everywhere.
Always happy to hear about the success of LFN. Thrilled to be a part of it! Fuck the system
Always has a feeling Tate and Thorin fans would be the same
@@MrDespisedIconwhy would this comment make you think I’m a fan of Andrew Tate? Touch grass
@@MrDespisedIcon What the fuck?
@@MrDespisedIcon The system of esports became fundamentally broken and in order to keep going it has to commit to more and more corrupt and messed up shit. LFN was created to get out of this rotting system and build something sustainable that can document esports (and media culture) from that perspective. You imply that is somehow objectionable. How?
that pro league segment was great, nearly had tears in my eyes
if they actually just fixed spectator client or had something similar to dota with in game spectating, it would be gg to having riot pay casters/observers. rely on costreamers to deal with that
Thorin, love the definition of a bonjwa and it makes perfect sense and the historical context was so good. I am no pro or good at taking the eye test but I have watched lol for a long time (religiously during lck montecristo and papa smithy era) and one thing I think all the contenders have in league at least is the evolution of the player.
I'm no Faker fan but the way he has bounced back after he lost to G2 is amazing. He changed his style, became more of a facilitator. Chovy has done that as well, from the laner as you put it to the all encompassing leader that he is today. I have not been following Rookie's career but the fact he has adapted to the new lol as well as he has is astounding.
Because lol is always changing, from patches to seasons, being able to reign at the top again and again requires amazing adaptability and evolution of your skill as a top player.
As a final thought, lets look at some other players that have won titles in their region, MSI or Worlds. If we for example think of Doinb, his style was amazing - until a new patch, new season came along and he seems to have vanished. Shall we take Showmaker next? He had a killer run for a period but now is falling to the wayside. He still has the potential to be great though, but I think it depends on if he can adapt.
TL;DR love the definiton, have wondered about it myself evolution might be a key factor in lol.
Thank you guys for your amazing work, always enjoyed your podcast and have been listening since the early days. Thank you for all your hard work.
always interesting how they hold the loss to drx against t1. but always ignored the fact geng with ruler and chovy loss to them as well in semis
doesn't line up with the narrative they are being dishonest about... that T1 team by their own metrics wasn't even a top tier team that worlds and faker should have switched to support.... that GenG team was gods gift and the best super team possible, by favorites... yet no talks or mentions
Discord Subscriber questions are the best part.
Couldn't agree more with the studio finals points. I completely lost interest in LEC since last year, I couldn't care less who wins a Mickey Mouse studio trophy and the pitiful season final at the end of the year is not going to bring my passion for this league back.
One thing I want to chime in on when it comes to germany as a german: We are not that expensive. It's only specifically places like Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt etc. And ONLY if you really want to be in those cities. In germany its a known open secret, everything gets dirt cheap if youre in the Hamburg Metropolitan Region but not in Hamburg. Its like Anaheim but way more extreme. The most logical place wouldnt be Berlin anyway. Berlin Metropolitan Region which includes Potsdam etc. is just like 5? million people. The Ruhrpott Metro Region is 10 million just in its core. None of the cities in there are as expensive as Berlin and the outskirts are poland level cheap. The Ruhrpott is so well connected, over 1/3rd its population does not work in the same city they live in. It's quite literally a mega city the likes you usually only have in asia. How do y'all think a country like germany is the most populated country in europe? In terms of true western countries germany is on average the cheapest. So if city inner are so insanely expensive, city outer naturally have to be insanely cheap. (And you can legally still call it in berlin)
If you know a kebab, in the city it costs around 8-9€. Outskirts the same would costs 3.50€.
begging for the location of LPL discussion
As much as Viper gets glazed to oblivion and I hate how overrated Thorin makes him out to be, I do agree that he was probably the best ADC in LCK this season over Guma(who honestly took a back seat to Keria and was a bit underwhelming this season), and Peyz was sus as hell and his performance this play offs made people go why did people vote him? That being said, Viper was not that great this play offs and arguably underperformed to expectations despite Thorin preaching it's his team's fault all the time.
Thoorins impression of an ape-like co streamer made me want him to do a co stream so bad
Chovy being titled Bonjwa I would agree almost there I would like to see his LCK results internationally then I'd say he should be it's not far fetched that it could be this MSI or Worlds that shows us these results but then I'm confused because what are you meant to do to get that title since his LCK stats are pretty damn intense then does that mean he should get that title or does he also have to get those results internationally as well to get the title?
stats dont mean shit, its 2024, people learnt this a long time ago in league lol
@@hahahobo247 So they could actually give him that title then? I don't know much about it to be honest so was wondering what it entailed because monty also talked about it on Monte and Wolf show lol so I was confused what one had to achieve to get it haha
Can we stop talking about the lane swap how can we simultaneously argue that BDS is awful and not grasp they might have been stupid enough to stumble into a winning game state without scrim leaks. I like how Dom disagrees with monte but stays quiet on powerspiked where monte is mild and on here he just dives straight in like let it go man you said something too inflammatory without enough evidence to say definitely you were right you even admit it’s 50/50 they knew or are dumb is it really such a stretch bds is dumb?
I mean that "dog shit" DRX team whooped GenG didnt they?
C9 Challengers that turned into flyquest at least developed Contractz (although they initially had Rush)
I wonder if thorin still thinks G2 are top 10 in the world
One would think they are making eu finals so bland, so eu teams cant prepare mentaly for the pressure of international playoffs. Notice how bad eu has been since our finals got killed
i remember watching the caedrel livestream about the faker 4 man, and his comment was so petty, he will make similar comments all year about players doing the technically wrong move but when he saw somebody he doesn't like do it, and the comment by monte literally just being a live watch comment that everyone makes, bruv acts like its ruining the hype.
The Faker stuff hurts but he’s right though.
In the game, when you have more than 100 cs than your enemy, it it saying after the game " Flame horizon " , they made that from Thorin, it has to be.
I believe it's from the former pro Flame, who first hit that stat.
@@andrews8733 Yes but turning it for an expression was made by thorin
The entitlement from NA especially NACS player is absolutely insane. In the nba if you can’t make the league you gotta go to play in the euro league or China to get even chance to make the league. Meanwhile you have NA imports like umti who had to uproot his life to go to an objectively worse region bc he couldn’t get success in his but NA players don’t have to do the same? If he wanted tenacity would be the Brazil league mvp lol. I totally get why people in their 20s wouldn’t do that tho. But that’s just the reality of sports
I just wanna point out... Beryl has 3 back to back and won 2... it's a curse and a blessing
In the Tom Brady debate often gets lost that the 28-3 comeback was heavily facilitated by Kyle Shanahan getting cute and calling a pass play on FG territory that ended on a sack and a punt. If they run the ball and take the FG + time off the clock, they go to an 11 point lead and basically let the Patriots depending on a miracle quick TD + 2 pt conversion + onside kick to even have a chance to tie/win. So the Falcons debacle isn't even close to the best Brady performance in a SB.
They have terrible NFL takes in my opinion lol. It takes some serious mental gymnastics to try and downplay Brady’s career 😂
Falcons trying to style on the Patriots instead of running the ball with Devonta Smith who had been running well that game, will never not be funny to me.
40:15 Very good take. LS on LCK broadcast was so fucking good, deep analysis or shooting the shit, LS and Atlus or Valdes, oh man bring back Papasmithy as well! Those were the good times... Casts have never been the same for me ever since LS stopped. LS + friends on discord is just not the same. I'm watching Caedrel nowadays because he can both keep it cool and analyze but also go hype mode.
I also agree on the followup, a deeper cast by pros would be much more interesting to me - while also keeping the usual broadcast for the people that enjoy that one more.
I wish that Thoorin would rage less.
I do appreciate the scalding criticism of media and Riot Games.
However, the constant hate directed toward the listener is getting tedious. It doesn't even make sense. Here are my arguments:
1. Thoorin has gotten into the habit of starting his sentences with "And this is another thing which you fucking nephews will never understand."
But the average viewer age has increased as the years has become decades. Whereas we previously had ads for lollipops and soda, we now see ads for health insurance and beer. (Two stapels of the vapid bourgeoise household.) I would assume that many of your listeners are in their thirties and now are themselves becoming - indeed! - uncles.
2. In one sentence you claim that you cater to a specialized audience, while in the next you lump those listening to your podcast in with reddit trolls and general degenerates. There is a contradiction here, right?
It's true that we may lack brainpower, but at least we are willing to learn from our betters.
I watch a lot Thoorins other content where he is way more relaxed. I even feel like he was way more relaxed in SI two years ago.
I believe that the product would be more enjoyable and the analytical content come more to the forefront if Thoorin relaxed a bit and didn't spend half an hour every episode flaming random reddit trolls, and lumping us viewers in with them, as if we are the same.
Commenting just so Thorin despises me now :D. Love you boo
Comparing Uzi to conversations on Chovy is just stupid.
Uzi literally CARRIED one of the worst teams to ever play in a worlds final to multiple world finals at a time where LoL was not existent in China. Chovy has literally choked multiple times, at worlds. Individually sure he is insane, but he hasnt done it at the time that it matters most.
"You only got away with it once" - Are we going to ignore that T1 went to Worlds finals 2 years in a row and won one of them and MSI finals in 2022 whilst GenG did absolutely nothing? Like literally nothing. Why if you are T1 with that kind of record, would you drop the team.
Also Upset is not in prison. Upset has been downright bad this year, Upset is good if his team is good. He is nothing like Viper. Elk was good last year... he was literally carrying BLG last year, their entire gameplan was built around him xD. Saying he is only good because of Knight is a comedy.
Cant say i agree on the take regarding the Travis interview.
The issue is that the NA amateur scene guy is literally hitting rank 1 constantly, coming top 2-4 in amateur and even beating out academy teams in proving grounds but still not getting to advance his career. And i dont mean to LCS i mean to fucking academy.
Sure people got paid nothing in old school league but at least when they won or played well they were rewarded for it. He's not leaving because of just money or stability....seems like the bigger issue was no real path to pro or commitment from riot and the teams.
Despite not being a real sports fan I don't mind the sports analogies and comparisons, often even find them funny or illuminating. This episode however (in my opinion) it went way overboard. The sports analogies sections went on and on and on for what felt like thirty minutes...
didn't deft p00p all over uzi for 3 years in lpl
i think uzi never won even regular season games against deft
he just kept p00ping all over him
very true
God these "we are so relevant guys" rants in the beginning of every episode and throughout are getting so unbearable. Guys WE ARE THE ONES WATCHING WE LIKE THE CONTENT. This just comes across bitter and sad it should be beneath you
It can get a bit samey at times but I'll take it as these guys ranting can produce some genuinely funny and clever moments. Not to mention they make no secret of the fact that they can be very petty.
Didnt TL lane swap vs C9 in the first game they played this split?
As a casual I have no idea what the first 10 minutes is about, maybe edit context in better ?
Thorin and Monte chose to double, triple, and quadruple down on accusing BDS of using scrim leaks vs G2 which Caedral and others pushed back on
@@kevinbaatar765 gotcha, I honestly have been only semi paying attention since worlds and looking to watch Msi
@@kevinbaatar765 Thorin didnt double, triple or quadruple down. He in video said it himself that Monte was wrong and he called him out on the video. Monte later in a tweet to Adam said he could be right, and later said its either the got leaks or they are dumb. Thats not doubling down...
Thorin 15:30 bro u read my freaking mind! I watched power spike and my take was "yeah I think double lift is just stupider than monte thinks - I think he didn't watch the bds series". I had no idea he had later said about the bds series in detail, that means he isn't just stupid, or just an idiot, he is BOTH! Had no intention of going back to watch a washed up LCS ADC's content, when there's more lfn to watch 🤣
Love you guys but why are you hating on riot fixing the msi brackets? Last year everyone was complaining about lack of interregion matches in msi, me and you included. Preventing early final rematches is awesome imo. If they happen later on in the tourny it means the teams have already beaten enough other competition so it's fine. And yes this is negative news for weaker regions such as eu and na but so what? Msi is not only about your own team but also about representing your region and securing that 4th worlds slot. Having two strong teams rather than one should be an advantage and not knock each other out early. Sure lck and lpl final rematches are bonker games but the narrative is less than if it was a cross. And if eu and na are really that bad they will be gone from the tourny even sooner.
I would pay a monthly subscription if you guys had a person do clips from games that you are talking about like the faker quadrakill, idk if it’s just me would it be something you’d consider? Like a link in the description all throughout the video of small little clips.
It would only be clips of Knight, Rookie and Chovy since they hate Faker
Jon Bonjwa Chovy?
I believe t1 was 230 hp from 3-0.
wasnt game 3 an elder flip too
@@banggu0222 yea but it was more of a set up and not rush like game one was
Just like t1 was 35 ping away from a 3-0. And t1 was one blueside away from a 3-0. And t1 was a ddos away from a 3-0.
@@kevinbaatar765 true
Magically ‼this ♫♪♫♪
It’s a privilege to be despised by Thorin ❤
Monte lives in Korea now? and since when?
Monte has said a lot of things but saying Emma Watson (not the kid version) isn't attractive is outrageous. I'm being half-serious here, obviously each to their own etc
Amazing episode. Thorin at the end with the viewer questions was just awful. Grumpy mood and insulting his paying patreon fans.
Who the fuck is calling ELK the best player ADC in the world.
Nobody. Elk is insane and was insane all of last year. He is one of the best ADC in the world right now, not the best but one of the current best.
Very spicy
Ok Monte, "BDS allegedly did not get a leak", my man is speculating the whole time and somehow the tables turned.
2019 skt is the failed superteam no one talks about.
I remember a while back saying that at some point in 2022 when Chovy finally won a title that it looks as if his macro sense has finally caught up to Faker. Now here we are in 2024 where Chovy actually does indeed have a very good grasp of macro to match his laning prowess and his mechanical skills. Monte said last year that Chovy needed Peanut to help with macro but lo and behold Chovy won LCK without Peanut. I know the Faker fanboys are going to cry but yes Chovy seems to be on the level of Prime Faker and that's coming from someone who prefers to see T1 win over Gen G. I'll always hold onto the fact that Chovy needs to figure out how to win internationally because sure he got a 4-peat LCK, but international success is simply more prestigious of a win no matter how much goalpost shifting Monte and Thorin say about it and Chovy just cannot get to the finish line there. That being said, Chovy does have my respect for being as consistent as he is.
His 3 different rosters of Gen G though are still mostly comprised of veteran players that have either played with him before or are renowned players themselves so it does stand to question that Chovy does have solid teams around him. People will still continue to call him "Chokey" so long as he continues to produce lackluster international results and there's no stopping that until he wins. No one in LCK will simply trust Gen G because this blemish has been a consistent trend for many years. 2023 Gen G is put into question because they only played T1 and BLG that year which doesn't help matters. Domestic performance and results stop mattering at a certain point like with modern T1 and infamously (and ironically) Doublelift. It's either win the international tournaments or bust at that point.
Just typing to boost the algo.
It is somewhat hard to take Caedrel's tiny violin seriously, complaining about being increasingly know for "monkey noises" (his words) and less for his analysis, when he is actively choosing to dumb down his content and avoid saying anything that might be controversial for the sake of his viewcount. Can't have it both ways, if he wants to be taken more seriously as an analyst again, maybe just stop doing monkey noises for views.
I'm the only commenter that does not suck❤
when chovy makes a play : OMG SO INSANE ENEMY DID NO MISTAKE STILL SO GOOD
when anyone else does a play : no its not good the opponent fucked up
yes almost every play the opponent fucks up news flash
👍
Interesting how thorin blames faker for costing kiera a second worlds. When zeus and oner also underperformed and drafts were sus. Also why is it ok for gen g, edg to be victims to zekas glow up and not T1?. Love how thorin calls faker a choker, when faker is the one that clutched the semis against jdg, thorin's best team of all time. There was more pressure against jdg than weibo thorin said so himself. By his own logic, Faker was clutch when he needed to be. Faker has had some clutch moments and some choke moments but you are going to have more moments if you have more appearances in high stake matches in general. Noone is clutch 100% of the time. Viper had some sus moments this playoffs but thorin would never call him a choker. To be fair Viper isnt a choker but if we used thorins logic on faker he would be a choker. Thorins take on zeka is pretty lazy too, zeka has dramatically improved this split especially towards the end. He is not big drop off from the 4 elite midlaners. Honestly off corki he has arguments of being more consistent than showmaker. If zeka can play trist, taliyah, yone, arhi, sylas, akali, azir. While the pool is a little narrow its large enough to be effective.
it was not excusable that geng lost to a 4th seed who told you that?
Honestly, as fun as it is to listen to these discussions, I don't see how it is coherent to argue for Chovy to not have choked in worlds 23 when he was "fine" ( below his own standard) and was not clutch enough to appear and be a deciding factor for his team but at the same time blame Faker for not being clutch enough in 22 worlds finals when Faker had the best player in the tournament ( in terms of form) as his lane opponent and the biggest missmatch ( Zeus vs Kingen) ended up with Kingen being the mvp of the finals and Zeus failling to dominate at all. Moreover, talking about Faker and his LCK finals when he has played with a worse jungler than his opponent ( both Monte and Thorin said this), Zeus ( worst performer in all the finals) and Keria ( who was great in some and invisible in others despite being labeled as "best support") , there are things to blame Faker for but if you are ignoring context un purpouse how is this an honest discussion, they spend the whole time taking like " Faker is not the star anymore, he should not have as much credit cause he is not the focal point of his team" but when they lose they treat him as the superstar of the team. If you do that then give him the credit for the wins too..
Literally anyone saying Chovy didn’t choke the hardest in 2023 MSI and Worlds is coping hard. Monte and Thorin themselves said GenG was the best team in the world going into both those tournaments, both of them they got outperformed hard by T1. Monte and Thorin also said don’t be surprised if T1 bombs out in Swiss.
Gen G was considered a favorite but wasn't the best team going into Worlds. However, the irony is that Chovy flat out was an underperformer against BLG while T1 2-0ed that same team to start off their LPL gauntlet. But yeah the bias against T1 while preaching their highlighted players is pretty stupid. You could even argue that 2022 worlds Gen G had the easier draws yet threw just as hard if not harder.
Please post versions of this with thorin cut out. It would be 1/4 as long and I'd actually end up smarter instead of dumber.
Pretty sad if you’re watching a 3 hour podcast hating 75% of it
Based
Rookie is trash tier. Keep coping about him. Keep coping
Thorin you sure it doesn’t make you a sociopath? Have you looked at yourself? You have made an entire career of showing that it’s true.
i dont know how people like caedrel i was done quickly with him.
mans a fraud just does a persona.
i prefer real people
Same
Reading reddit comments about LFN are so bizzare. They say the most outlandish, fake shit ever. I may salty type on comments here, but it's not making shit up like "thorin Hates Women" and " Monte doesn't know what he's talking about." Anyways, stay rent-free those idiots heads i love it, you folks at LFN are the best to do it.
There is a imgur link providing evidence spanning over multiple years in regards to the first point
Thorin having his whole "I AM ESPORTS" whilst ranting about Women in esports is why that first part exists.
Monte making claims that teams colluded with BDS to eliminate G2 is why they say the second.
when it suits the agenda: Use coach’s opinion
when it doesnt: most coaches are shit
Thorin and Monte summed up!
Yes welcome to the podcast. This is what they do with everything.
If we like you and its suits the narrative: "You are the best".
If we dont like you and it doesnt suit: "You are literally the worst thing to have ever existed".
Monte often talks down Emma Watson, but her face is 10/10 and she is near Genius Intelligence. I disagree with her being described as not attractive.
She's a solid 7 and her intelligence is really quite meaningless when discussing attractiveness 👍
Considering the era he grew up with was filled with god tier actresses such as Nicole Kidman, Audrey Hepburn, Jennifer Connelly, Winona Ryder, Monica Bellucci, Charlize Theron, and Grace Kelly, I can hardly blame him for being demanding for the younger ones. (On a side note, Emma also hasn’t been involved in many famous works besides the Beauty and the Beast ever since she finished filming Harry Potter series, and her performance in those works just doesn’t strike me as impressive compared to her Harry Potter days.)
@@laisensei6984 I think monte just likes big fake zonkers.
@@laisensei6984 Audrey Hepburn ? Lol
Brother put your dick away, she’s not reading these comments.
This boomers over here showing their jealousy towards Caedrel so hard because their boy Dom can't even scratch half of Caedrel viewership lol!
Not sure if sarcastic or just stupid.
They are angry because Caedrel started costreaming after Dom but is 10x more successful than him and is much more universally liked and regarded as a much better analyst.
@@ShoorfLonelyLokly Accurate.
31:17 Relevant rant.
the eu is the ussr ok thorin is losing the plot
if jealousy had a face
Keep trying brother /s
Jealous about what? They get to talk about their passion for a living
@@dabigbabydog ???
@@dv4manuThey hate league though
@@Shreddasaurusthey love it or they'd do something else for the past 10years
T1 did the bogus move of keeping the same roster when Faker has proven that he can still lead and carry a super team if they made roster moves around him. while every other team made great moves, Faker gets left with the overhyped chumps and less likely chance to win again
Dont know what ur smoking dude, if anything T1 is even larger favorites to winning worlds this year... EVERY other team in the world downgraded thie rosters.
Gen.G downgraded , JDG downgraded massively, BLG might have gotten alittle better then last year BUT worse then last years JDG, HLE and DWG did upgrade slightly but not nearly enough... KT downgraded aswell...
T1 has NEVER lost to a chineese team in worlds so far so their the favorites there, Gen.G always chokes internationally so T1 is favorites there... The only team i can see beating T1 is Gen.G or HLE depending on Zeus form.
I'm honestly sick of the narrative that T1 is a star-studded roster itself when they're mainly comprised of new gen players from their internal system with only Keria being the outlier. And I think it's fun to see the growth of these players where they have to face these unique challenges but the overhype does sour rooting for the team. T1 will still do well internationally since unlike the rest of LCK, part of beating T1 is how to fight them specifically. It's a bit hilarious that internationally, all eyes are still on Faker and a little bit of Keria who at the time of introduction was hyped by his former ADC partner Deft.
@@Slashresto geng downgraded? lmaoooo
@@Slashrestolmao literally who besides debatably guma would be an upgrade over the current t1 roster. The problem with t1 players has and always will be their mental
@@999dawnfm they did worse then last year when they best T1 3-0 in the finals so yes!
Pesnut is still the best jungler in the world for this current type of meta, not that Canyon is a big downgrade and lehends isnt much of an upgrade over Delight.
Kiin is the only upgrade they got, altho a massive one id still argue they downgraded or stayed the same on the power ranking.